The Dangers of Divorcing a Narcissist with Demetria Graves | Season 2; Ep 4
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2023
- 🛎 If You're New Subscribe ► bit.ly/SubscribeNN
Top divorce attorney Demetria Graves reveals her pre-divorce checklist, the biggest mistakes people make in the process and breaks down the harsh realities of going toe-to-toe with a narcissist in court.
✨Follow me on social:
Instagram - @doctorramani
Pod Instagram - @navigatingnarcissismpod
Facebook - @doctorramani
Twitter - @DoctorRamani
RUclips: @NavigatingNarcissismPod
I want to hear from you, too. Have a toxic topic you want me to explore? Email me at askdrramani@redtabletalk.com. I just might answer your questions on air.
Guest Bio:
Certified Family Law Specialist, Demetria Graves, opened her own Family Law practice, The Graves Law Firm. She is considered a leading Family Law attorney and has received many accolades for her dedication to the field of family law as well as to the community. Ms. Graves hosts a podcast, “Legally Uncensored with Attorney Demetria L. Graves,” addressing family law-related topics. In addition, Ms. Graves wrote and released a book in 2021 titled, “When Women Run the Firm: How to successfully launch and manage your law practice with confidence.”
Guest Information:
Instagram - @demetria.gravesesq
Podcast - Legally Uncensored Podcast
Facebook - The Graves Law Firm
Website - https:/demetria.gravesesq/www.losangeles-divorcelaw.com/Demetria-Graves.aspx
Helpful Resources:
Narcissist Abuse Support - Narcissistabusesupport.Com
Women’s Divorce - WomensDivorce.Com
Survive Divorce - Surviveddivorce.Com
This podcast should not be used as a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and/or therapy from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast.
❤️ iHeartRadio » ihr.fm/3Nl7fQy
📢 APPLE PODCASTS » apple.co/3WcYtIh
📢 AMAZON MUSIC » amzn.to/3NmeuaG
🟢 SPOTIFY » spoti.fi/3gNNi8y
🎥 PREVIOUS VIDEO » • Why Didn’t They Believ...
🌟 OUR TEAM
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Jada Pinkett Smith, Ellen Rakieten, Dr. Ramani Durvasula, Meghan Hoffman, Fallon Jethroe
VP PRODUCTION OPERATIONS: Martha Chaput
CREATIVE DIRECTOR: Jason Nguyen
LINE PRODUCER: Lee Pearce
PRODUCER: Matthew Jones, Aidan Tanner
ASSOCIATE PRODUCER: Mara De La Rosa
ASSOCIATE CREATIVE PRODUCER: Keenon Rush
HAIR AND MAKEUP ARTIST: Samatha Pack
AUDIO ENGINEER: Calvin Bailiff
EXEC ASST: Rachel Miller
PRODUCTION OPS ASST: Jesse Clayton
EDITOR: Eugene Gordon
POST MEDIA MANAGER: Luis E. Ackerman
POST PROD ASST: Moe Alvarez
AUDIO EDITORS & MIXERS: Matt Wellentin
VP HEAD OF PARTNER STRATEGY: Jae Trevits
DIRECTOR, DIGITAL MARKETING: Sophia Hunter
VP, POST PRODUCTION: Jonathan Goldberg
SVP, HEAD OF CONTENT: Lukas Kaiser
VP, PRODUCTION OPERATIONS: Jacob Moncrief
EXECUTIVE IN CHARGE OF PRODUCTION: Dawn Manning
Narcissists are everywhere and these days it seems like everyone has at least one in their lives! Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist, will help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life. Every Thursday, we will hear first-hand accounts from people who know this territory the best, the survivors.
New episodes weekly on iHeartRadio.
#NavigatingNarcissism #NavigatingNarcissismPodcast #DrRamaniPodcast #NavigatingNarcissism #NavigatingNarcissismDrRamani #NavigatingNarcissismPodcastDrRamani #DrRamaniPodcast #DrRamanNarcissismPodcast
I filed after 20 years without telling him. It was cut and dry because we didn’t have nothing to fight for. I walked away with nothing but my peace & sanity. I’m so glad I finally got the strength to do it. I’ve been Free for 8 months
SO happy for you! Congratulations!
Congratulations! You are a courageous fabulous person.
I'm filing after 23 tears....Im 😊 happy.....God bless you❤
Sometimes the narcs don’t walk away they wanted out all along but have to find a supply before they leave and they lie about the affair they have while married but never admit it and act like they just happen to be together. Bull ! They are not honest . They are times people mess up but they should owe up to it and not expect the innocent spouse to keep them up and use it for their own selfish sinful ways … they should be open and tell the truth that they don’t love someone enough to be faithful and just flipping go on !!! If the spouse wants to make a settlement then that’s their choice. But it’s awful people play goody toe shoes til
They do something! It’s ok as long as they do wrong but boy they don’t wanna be done wrong ! Hypocrisy!
Same here…my health and peace of mind was more than enough for me.
The abrupt realization that you put so much investment and time in someone who never cared for you is tough
That part
Yes, this is the gut blast that hit me the most when I realised. Luckily the freedom I have helps me get over it.
Exactly what I'm feeling right now. 16 years for NOTHING
Very
I'm there right now its very relaxing knowing how much better the future is.
They don't just want to "WIN!" They want to *hurt-&-harm!*
Their aim is to destroy you and win, they are going straight to hell
100% true!!!!
Thank you. I need to remember that! Going through the divorce!
That is an understantment
I believe it, even when they say they don’t.
I read this online in a poster:
When a narcissist loses was control over you, they will control what others think of you.
18 years 8 months and 7 days and I got out. Have no home I am on every housing list and I came to survive in the middle of winter.
All that being said... my life is better than any day of that 18 years 8 months and 7 days.
It bad when you don’t know what a narcissist is and thing they do word they say what to expect all you know is you don’t really know the person you marri d to and they are abusie. I had to file D.or I be dead today this was man years ago
We much do study on what these witches; they craft. Mars’s oss is what is the specties how they attack they victims. What can the person victim can do to get free when they hav nothing wow so many not aware
I want you to know you are brave
My ex husband was such a narcissist, he enrolled a law degree in the middle of a divorce (which is now in its 5th year). In the beginning, he was hiring barristers and then realised that he is "cleverer" than them, i.e. they were so "stupid" they couldn't convince judges to believe his lies. Let me also say that he already has a degree in electrical engineering and has had a lucrative career in IT. He has abused every venue of appeal and even applied to the European Court of human rights. He didn't want to pay child maintenance so the children had to endure a DNA test. When the children and I left unbearable hell of family home in a shelter, he changed the locks and rented the house to three young women (living there with him). We managed to kick him out. God gives me strength to deal with this freak and I can't wait to see how he is going to deal with him in the end. People, especially women need to be educated to spot a narcissist from a mile. They are a plague to a human race. I am so glad I left him, it is priceless.
I agree. We need to better spot this type.
What advice or red flags would you say?
Oh Mylanta! Lana, you're an inspiration.
They are indeed a plague. Speaking of experience
I'm glad you and your children are free from that crazy time in your lives and have a much better future ahead. Prayers 🙏
I know your joy, and anguish. Congrats on your victories along the way. What was your dad like? My mom was tremendous, so I kept expecting my narcissistic partner to be normal. So she got away with SO much due to my naivete.
At the end of my 3 year divorce from a Covert Narcissist, the Judge "suggested" at the end of her written ruling that I could potentially sue the other side for legal fees due to "non-cooperation". I did & I was awarded 1/3 of my attorney fees.
Good! They were on your side!
Did you collect however ?
@@ladyluck5248 right! Being awarded and collecting is something I’d like to know if that happened.
Brilliant
@@ladyluck5248 I’m also interested in hearing this. I am not pursuing lawyers fees because I’ve heard quite often they don’t pay them.
I have been a divorce attorney for 40 years and this is the best discussion on narcissistic divorces...really great...
Let them feel they’re in control, play them at their own game, let them think they’re winning.
Sadly there is no “winning” when you are dealing with a narcissist. There just isn’t.
me2!
There's small battles to be won. & if they think they are hurting you, when it doesn't, they won't try so hard to go another level and that is a win. So you claim, "No, a quick divorce, is the last thing I want!" 😉 a little reverse psychology 19:24
For them is a winning game.
@@herahagstoz6934let them “think” they’re winning so they don’t fight you as bad.
It’s taken me a year and a half to work up almost all the courage I need to file. I’m terrified, financially dependent and doing this alone while trying to maintain sobriety. I hope that my freedom will be worth the horrors I am facing in this divorce.
In the exact same position after 43 years. Scary and no help at all. The legal aid attorney told me to just do it when I explained I couldn't do the paperwork. I don't know how to get any other help.
me2!
Trust me. It's been 3 years since I filed and I'm 2 years free. It WILL be worth it.
I'm in the same position married for 12 years but separated for the last 15 months. Still trying to gather up enough courage to go forward with my divorce.
Same here! Married 20/21 years, separated 3yrs now.
I can’t even divorce my narcissist I just feel like death might be the only way out. Can’t afford to leave I’ll lose what little I have and yet nothing means anything to me. He is the hardest person I’ve ever dealt with in my life. I just don’t even know what to do at this point. Too depressed to make plans to leave too depressed to look for extra work or want to work a second job to stay steady on my feet. It’s hell. I haven’t had a clear mind in years and nobody understands except the people who’ve maybe gone through this. It’s the strangest thing to ever deal with then having to deal with the trauma in your head.
I’m currently divorcing a narcissist and I can definitely relate. Please, find whatever brings you peace and cling to it (going into nature, working out, venting to a trusted friend/ loved one, etc.) you will crawl out of that depression and be just fine, but you have to fight! Please consider reading Vibrate Higher Daily by Lalah Delia also The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Don’t give up.
@@JohannaD7288 thank you! I’m trying our lease is up next month I’m thinking I’ll make a clean break there because this isn’t life. It’s so dreary. ♥️
@@sophiyahsunflower7259 thank you! I’ve tried to do the same I pray on a regular and find myself praying so fast and sometimes forget what I’ve prayed about but I do need to take the time and talk to God and let him direct me! Thank You🩵
@@shansmith7100 oh yea. That’s definitely gonna help. Our Lease is up in July and I cannot wait!! All the best! Sending healing and strength your way ❤️
Don't loose hope, i spent 6 years into this and about to begin the divorce process. See if you can stay away contactless with the narc.
It's literally fighting with the devil. Lord help us in Jesus name.
It is.
Me too.
Absolutely the truth. Everyone of these statements. I saw this statement in a poster online:
When a narcissist loses control over you, they will control what others think of you.
So, so true. Without any conscience of what it said or the damage it will do to you.
U been recognized
People are people. Religion is religion. My narcissistic abuser was a religious leader and the church upheld his infidelity and abuse.
19 year marriage
8 year court battle
$600,000 my legal fees
Despite this, leaving was absolutely the best decision! My recommendation is gather as much documentary evidence in the year before leaving. Stay strong and stand firm on your truth!
Ya, got myself out but my precious son is dealing w parental alienation plus trauma bonding. 🙏s please!!
I’m sorry you went through that. Me too. 50K in and I’m so sad about it
@@lynghee159hang in there. I’m sorry. We are all here for you
@@Luke747gal take scanned copies of all financial documents for yourself & your husband held jointly and in sole names. For example bank statements, any business documents, superannuation balances, share holding and investment statement of holdings and any transaction notices, any employment earnings, tax returns , loan agreements and balances outstanding, property purchases and sales etc. Also, if you have any children take scanned copies of any school reports and medical reports
God bless you❤
I’ve been divorcing a malignant narcissist for almost 5 years. Even hardened judges have a hard time seeing that they are dealing with a sick person.
It’s horrible and very expensive to litigate against a narcissist
This should be illegal with a person with npd they should be able to submit that being not in mental state of mind going around an mentally messing people up with there abuse they should. Not have a small tiny chance to say anything at all due to there unstableness it’s not even fair for those of us that wasn’t even toxic or narcissistic in any way at all I’m invovled in a narcissistic marriage right now an each time she gets mad she yells out you no what I can’t take this marriage nomore just get the divorce I’m done it’s way too much for me an I’m sick an tired of waking on eggshells I really am
14 years married, 17k 9 month divorce. My ex was a narcissist in every way. He just text me yesterday relitigating the divorce 3 years later because he lost big. Thankful for full custody of my 2 kids. This was such an interesting podcast. My divorce cost me everything but freedom is priceless.
They did the same on child support cases as well!! Mines is still attempting to gaslight me every chance he gets because he lost big but he is the one that hired and attorney to intimidate me!!! Didn’t work!! I won big💪🏾🏆
@Ericka Hill Most of the time.... a true Narc really dont want the kids thats why they dont take care of the financially after the breakup!! If they want custody of the kids its to hurt u but gather all evidence of abuse and malice towards u and the kids get a great lawyer thats going to fight for u!
@@erickahill1761i wonder the same thing
how did u get full custody? did u go to trial?
I feel you! 17 years married, $33k 11 month divorce. You're right, freedom is PRICELESS!
Not checking my inbox and it negatively affecting my work is SPOT ON! Seeing the narc’s name makes me physically ill and creates such an adrenaline rush.
@dawn6232... seeing their name, seeing their car or even a car like theirs, smelling their cologne, hearing their voice on voicemail creates anxiety.
@@BeeBeeBell I highly recommend EMDR therapy to process that crap. It also has roots from childhood that need to be processed. EMDR is a game changer.
Neuro emotional technique to integrate trapped trauma is also excellent.
This is so me. 🤣🤣🤣
Yes! I also suffer from full body pain and now have high blood pressure and had to deliver the baby early. I couldn’t keep the pressure down he floods me with texts and calls
I file for divorce after 37 years with a Narcissist it was easy he didn’t respond to the serve so I was happy our children were adults so it took 7 months and I was free as a bird
I think that is the way when children are grown because otherwise it is a long war with the most damage on children. How did you cope with him in marriage?
This is what I’m doing. I just focus on making each day good for my kids and when they’re adults, I’ll file. Idc about $, so… I only want peace without traumatizing our precious children ❤
What to do when the narcissistic spouse has made you so isolated that there is no support system? They have 100% financial control. And your reputation is ruined
🎉I’m in the same boat.
Find employment nearby
Sell everything you can
Get on gov assistance
Get a gov apartment
Go uni part time
Get gov or corporate job
Be quiet 🤫 about everything!!!
Pray pray pray & save save save check out @Treasure Kingdom she does a live and individual counselling on RUclips - I pray you are built back up again
there is always a way out. Find a local charity, they helped me, free legal aid, go to your church. Friends will help, too. I was in the same situation for 20 years before I realised there was a way out. They make you feel you are helpless, they are wicked. Be brave and leave him. God is with you, pray to Him and He will help.
You have described my situation, my narc ex husband chucked me and my children out of the house. I live far from my family. Had to ask for government help, sought out help in every way including advice from social worker. I promise there is always a way out you just have to ask the right people. It won’t be easy but it is worth it. I now have my own place with my babies and have gone back to uni. Hope the best for you ❤
I’m in the same boat with you and now in a mental health clinic due to my wife’s claims. Today she topped it all…had a messenger come to hand deliver a court non molestation order at the mental health clinic to me. My whole life is gone and all because she can say anything and the courts will accept it and I can’t as a man have any defence
Really great but triggering. I will say premarital counseling is such a laughable suggestion. If marriage counseling is a bad idea with a narcissist, what do you think premarital counseling will do? I went through premarital counseling with my ex narcissist. I think it was just the perfect venue for more love bombing and future faking, and gave him the complete playbook on how to manipulate me since I was actually being honest.
Good point! Makes perfect sense to me! So sorry for your struggles, hugs 🤗
Wow so messed up. Almost no one gets it.
Counseling is just a way for the disordered partner to catalog your traumas and weaknesses and to manipulate the therapist into thinking you're the "primary patient. " They will use your vulnerability in counseling to further abuse you by by exploiting what you disclosed in therapy. If you have children, they will do the same thing in therapy with the children. The truth eventually comes out but not for years and by then the collateral damage is done. The kids will end up traumatized in the divorce.
Exaaaactly!! Well said !
Well said. It was his playback meanwhile I was basically just his prey the whole time, willingly attending premarital counseling
This is such important information. I am now divorced after 36 years of marriage to a difficult narcissist. Thankfully my attorney was upfront about going to court telling me that only the attorneys would win. My attorney said my ex was the most difficult person she had dealt with in her long career. The Narc-Ex had a replacement for me before I even left the home and my children learned of his new wife on Facebook (his go-to for supply) My "settlement" ended up being a fraction of the 1/2 it should have been & my physical and mental health suffered as did the health of my adult children. It was a nightmare, but I am free. Still lots of rumination about the new woman in the home I made even so far as wearing the clothing I had to leave behind when I covertly left. Please keep educating people including attorneys and judges.
Praying for you. Don’t worry about the new woman you are free of the toxicity and the ex is her problem. Keep pouring positivity and light into yourself
Wow! Literally identical to my story. Still awaiting divorce be finalized after 35+ yr marriage; our adult daughters also suffering from mental health and trauma; he does live with new woman and flaunting her on social media and everywhere. I am unbothered by that. But I hate that divorce is taking so long.
She's going to be his problem. They normally end up getting more than what they bargained for.
Isaiah 35:5,6
Psalms 37:10,11
Psalms 37. Very conforting! Thanks Holy Spirit.
Demetria is really good. I divorced a full fledged narcissist & all this is true. Best approach was to be the "reasonable" one & the one being willing to "compromise" to come to a "solution" (whether you want this or not). Emphasize you support the kids "loving" the other parent & vice versa. This IS what judges want to hear. The narcissist will NOT support this, this even triggers them & they do "themselves" in. This was hard but was so effective & worked!!! Took me 3 yrs.
I'm about to start filing for divorce any other advice please
@tamarasmith5127 please have people or a therapist you can talk to please 🙏🏽
me2!
Me 3
@@tamarasmith5127 just seeing this. Hope things have gone well. But leaving a narc, please put your safety first. Don't confront him, don't discuss. Act submissive (even though you're not!). But never back down in your demands for child support, fair visitation, punctuality, etc. In court, judges want to see your willingness to cooperate, compromise, & that you support visitation. They also want to see your willingness to work. Give them what they want to see. Goal is to walk away safely, with a custody decree & child support. All the best. A big hug.
Ms. Graves really knows her stuff and YES the courts are absolutely slanted toward narcs. Poor children and women who are not being served justice.
Not just women, men go through this as well
@@christynahai yes, but it’s usually women who are affected by this
@@christynahai yes absolutely agree and I know some. Men are physically and economically more privileged than women. I factor that into the equation.
Yes.
@@livinggood6876 Also factor in that women are favoured in court.
Wow, this is a wake up call! Not worth this kind of stress, glad im single and no more Narc in my life. Period, dot, end of story.
Happy for you. Please keep it up.
A toxic / narcissistic system will always favor toxicity / narcissism. We really messed things up.....
Sad but true. Maybe it’s time for a change. Maybe it’s time for the ACLU to get involved.
I am a month late, but this is true. 😔
Amen.
This is the absolute truth. Cuz anytime you show any kind of an emotion in court you're a crazy lunatic. The lack of empathy reads really well in the courtroom apparently vs your real time emotions
I found this lawyer’s advice to be priceless. She’s amazing and a breath of fresh air. Much respect for both of you encouraging ladies. ❤
I came here to say the same thing. I wish so much I’d had this range of information and these insights going into my own divorce! An absolutely invaluable resource.
This was a superb interview. It brought home how narcissists think, how they operate and how much damage they can do.
We need more people like ms Graves! Honestly!
Honestly, this is one of the best interviews I have seen on this topic. Thank you both. Everyone should know this information.
🙌🏾
@@tijeraslack3,y
I agree. A very knowledgeable and "seasoned" attorney. Just the kind anyone going up against a Narc. needs! And Regardless, of the situation.
More power to her and us!!!
You are so right ! NEVER UNDERESTIMATE the Narcissist.
I was only married to the narc for 15 months but it felt like 15 years. He wanted me dead to get my life insurance, then he wanted my house... then in the divorce he wanted alimony. We had no kids or property together and he wanted to ruin me. The judge wasn't having it and granted the divorce.
Wow 9 months that felt like 9 years for me. He switched the second I walked down the aisle
@cosmosprincess20 Yes. Mine too. The funny thing is no one believes me. They think he showed red flags but he didn't.
Information and support on divorcing a narcissist is a much needed resource. Could you do one on how to navigate custody battles with a narc ex please? This seems to be where they really have a field day.
100% true
Yessss, I need the custody battle interview. Currently going through that and fully expect to have to fight repeatedly until my child turns 18. The narcissist will never give up and will do anything to try and crush any ounce of happiness or success their ex obtains. I'm fighting this war one battle at a time.
Yes please. There's not enough talk about divorcing a narc when children are involved. This is the only fear I have leaving my husband.
This is why I don’t believe in marriage and I share my money with no one. I make sure I support myself as I never rely on anyone!
So smart!
After watching the hell my parents went through in their divorce (they were both narcissists and the divorce lasted 4 years). Divorce scared the shit out of me. When it was my turn to get a divorce from my narcissist ex-husband, I decided to hit hard and fast. I didn't really sit down and talk with him about it beforehand (he used divorce as a threat to get me to do what he wanted. That was us 'talking' about it). I waited and when the time was right (and I had money in my bank account) I took the divorce papers (saying we both agree to divorce and there would be no fighting) and I put them in front of him and said "If you don't want me to hire a lawyer and fight you for every damn penny you own, then you'll sign these papers now and make this divorce as easy as possible." (He was a trust fund baby, and this scared him). Luckily, it worked, and he signed the papers and was on good behavior for a month until the divorce was finalized. (Strangely, my divorce was finalized the same day my narcissistic father died, and my ex-husband kicked me out of the house the same weekend as the funeral.)
Good grief, I can see exactly this scenario all too well. Take care, and I hope the worst is behind you now. ❤
@@cc1k435 Thank you 🙏 I hope so too ❤
Well played.
I had a text book Narcissit divorce in my first marriage, just as she discribes. My attorney finally slapped my ex with "abuse thru the court system". I'm sure that is not the correct term. That ended it all. We divorced. This was in 2002. I'm in Illinois.
How did you find out about NPD?
What is that?
NPD - narcissistic personality disorder
@@wendeezy456 sorry this took me so long to respond. I’ve just been learning about it now. I didn’t realize that my first husband was a narcissist at the time. But he definitely was. It’s so much easier going through it the second time with all these videos and understanding the personality types. This time I’m dealing with a covert narcissist. I’m hoping I’m working my way off the chart!
Family court sanction of being uncooperative and unreasonable from opposing party. I’m going thru this right now. My ex and her legal team are narcissistic. I’m just watching 2trains derail with disregard of the child. But they showed their card by taking my son out of the country=international child abduction.
Everything in this video is truth and I anticipated their actions.
Wow this one was FANTASTIC!!! Please bring Demetria in another time in the future. This was so insightful and she’s so smart but also gives information in a very light, easy to digest way. Idk if it’s just me? I loved this episode.
My ex husband did agree to mediation. And while we went through it, it was super emotional as he was antagonistic and didn’t want to give in on certain things. Even now, he recalls that he “trusted the wrong people and got screwed”. If anything this episode prepared me that he will eventually take me to court, so that “he can win”! I save all his antagonistic text messages.
Experienced divorce attorney here. (Pennsylvania and New Jersey). An ounce of prevention (vetting very carefully before getting married, or staying single) is the safest way to proceed in any relationship. Great video! Stay safe out there!
Never get married 😢
Most people do not realize who Narcissistic spouses really are until they have been married for years. The brainwashing is beyond one can comprehend.
Such an unhelpful statement once people are already in it and need to divorce.
The point is understood, but this is actually victim blaming and very harmful to those in this situation.
Experienced divorce attorney are you trying to be helpful here? Or did you post on here by accident?
Even if you don’t get married but you have children together, the process steamrolls children and the non abusive spouse. Family law is the appendix of our justice system and is due for an appendectomy because it’s full of sh!t.
Due to the nature of our civil justice system and its inherent bias towards the individual with the highest tolerance for wearing a mask in public, there is almost no ceiling for the amount of damage that can be inflicted on the other person and by proxy, the children.
My ex used the threat of bringing me back to court to take more custody of our children whenever I disagreed with him or he felt that I was challenging him in any way. This was his go to threat when he wanted to keep me in my place. My children and I spent over a decade living with this and I cannot tell you how much mental and emotional distress this caused us.
I had to weigh the consequences of not standing up for the needs our children had against the danger of being expelled entirely from their lives. I had to learn how to minimize and debase myself in order to practice a kind of mental jujitsu. This kowtowing technique looked really bad from an outside perspective but it was really the only way to avoid high conflict and achieve any positive results. The downside is that it further undermined my previously damaged self confidence. I was never able to take a direct approach and have this recognized as a strength by others. My immediate family in particular could just not understand why I would not simply stand up for myself or how it was possible that I lost custody in the first place. They just couldn’t believe me when I told them that the court didn’t want to hear about his shady manipulation and how harping on this only made it easier for him to highlight my supposed incompetence to be a stable co-parent.
Both of our children are adults now and he is paying for their therapy. Neither of them trust him much and I now get to enjoy them both without the threat of him taking them away. Instead, he now uses his leverage with their health insurance as control, but it is much less effective and would require him to justify this to his family. He is terrified of being perceived as a less than responsible father and this keeps him from carrying out the worst of his threats.
The damage he continues to cause them is unimaginable as his love and support are constantly contingent upon them performing their duties as children, which is as confusing and impossible as that sounds. They know I love them unconditionally and so I hope that will be enough for them to value their self worth by. None of us is truly recovered from the years of impending legal threat and we must work at it daily to restore stability and peace.
Family law is no safe space and it continues to be the arena for all the worst aspects of humanity to play out on a public platform. It would be a more honest representation of what family court is about if there were stockades or other equally as shame inducing equipment that were used. I think it would be a popular idea for the voyeuristic public to throw trash and rotten food at the “bad” actors. In essence this is what happens when your audience is only interested in displaying your private information in the worst possible way in order to weaponize it so that conflict is encouraged and punishment is imposed by proxy of your own children (or pets).
Every time I left the courtroom with less custody than I came in with a piece of my soul died. Every time our young children looked at me and said “We lost again, didn’t we?” it took a sledgehammer to my chest. Each time he called me names, degraded my self esteem as a parent, and threatened to take me back into court for another public shaming, a chunk of my confidence and pride cracked off and floated away. There was nothing I could do except bend myself into whatever shape he wanted in order to maintain physical contact with my children. There was nothing just or in the best interest of the children involved.
And so we became survivors with scars. Recovery will be a lifetime. And I never married him. Family court is the weapon of choice for the narcissist, married or otherwise. Critical family law theory must be established to fully address what is actually happening in this modern day scold’s bridle of a institution.
Thank you! I m ready! 'Try to make him snap' what makes a narcissist snap? Your happiness... fake it before you make it!
The Peace gained worth getting away from those Lost ppl... 🕊️
This is an excellent podcast. I wish I had found an attorney like Ms. Graves when I went through a divorce from a diagnosed sociopath 18 years ago. I went through 3 attorneys and ran out of money before I could find appropriate counsel. The worst case scenarios that are described in this podcast happened to me and traumatized me for life. I had documented everything but it did not help when push came to shove because the family courts and judicial system did not recognize the existence of narcissistic personalities at the time, even though I had medical proof of the ex's personality disorder. My children went through hell because of the situation, were forced to spend a weekend a month at their dad's place even though they contested it, and are still dealing with the confusing and gut-wrenching aftermath 16 years later. Divorce is difficult in the best of situations, but divorcing a sociopath raises this to a whole different level of pain and injustice.
These issues are true with female Narcissists too! Maybe worse as they employ flying monkeys.
omg. my heart goes out. this sounds so painful. reliving the drama for months or years while trying to divorce?! wowzers.
Poor children and women aren’t being helped by the courts
My husband's first wife was a narcissist. He filed for divorce. She exploded and told him that she would ruin him and he shouldn't think that she couldn't. After 3 years in court, the judge decided to grant a bifurcated divorce. He probably thought that would shut down her nasty games. It didn't. The property settlement was given 3 years later. By that time, he and I were married for 2 years. His ex never remarried.
She continued to file claims that she was not getting ANY child support even though my husband was garnished from day one. The court bookkeeping was crap to put it nicely. Then, there was interest on the questionable missing child support. Eventually, the alleged arrears were over 50,000 dollars. It ended when my husband died 23 years later, but only after they tried like hell to collect them from me as a marital debt. That didn't work.
What a Gift to the world you two women are!
My divorce was brutal in 1994... still talking to my kids about issues that began back then.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani and Dimitria❣️
I had a 5 year marrage and a 10 year divorce, every 2 weeks in court, endless assessments and grilling, and the lies! and twisted reality and manipulation i did feel as though i was loosing my mind. It was horrendous!
I was married for 34 yrs to a narcissist. I didn't even know what that was, till I was totally crushed. I loved him with all I have. I finally found out he was such a deceitful person. He made me believe I was always the bad person and so worthless. God gave me evidence of him having sexual relations with his daughter. God is still helping me with mental health.
That’s exactly where I am in my miserable marriage. I’m at 34yrs & have been trying to find my way out. Every time I’m ready to end it, I mistakenly share what I’m contemplating with someone in my religion. Each time I’m reminded that divorce is only allowed for adulterous reasons. Although my long term mental abuse has resulted in being diagnosed to have clinical depression, others just don’t understand & guilt me to stay. Abuse is abuse! Whether physical or mental, abuse is dangerous to the recipient.
@@hankshaw5466 listen to dr. Clarke
@@hankshaw5466 ruclips.net/user/liveUrQunCc94b8?feature=share
God bless you!🙏🏽
@@hankshaw5466what you do you divorce that evil, then ask God for forgiveness! Period!
I divorced after 30 years. My Bishop acted as an in between and just saved me! Physical and psychological abuse almost did me in. But I survived!
There is no system so uniquely suited to attract and amplify the worst traits and behaviors of the narcissistic personality than the family law courts and the legal justice system in general. From the ultimate power trippers (judges) to the win by any means necessary lawyers to the smaller (and most vicious due to their limited powers in small ponds) court mediators and security personnel, the levels of abusive power tripping know no bounds.
As a legal specialty, family law is the most outdated and highly confrontational area of law. The careers of millions of people depend upon the domestic illnesses of millions of others. The more contentious the better for all involved except for the children who are used as the ultimate leverage in every way possible.
Additionally, since it comes straight out of the patriarchal playbook it contains language, law, and ideology which puts children in the category of property (think ownership of people level grossness) and pits the most abusive and power hungry against the most vulnerable in public settings, what we end up having is a continuation of the old world public square shaming.
I ask you to consider why it is necessary for what started out as an emotional/spiritual bond, that combined the lives of two people needs to be separated in a public space, especially considering that these proceedings end up encouraging the most mendacious, cruel, and destructive legal attacks. Now consider that there is not much to be done about the other person lying and framing the other as the worst human on the earth. There is no remediation for this because the system rewards the person who says the biggest lies first. THE COURT DOES NOT CARE about abuse and it actually punishes the person who points it out because it makes them appear manipulative.
Family law is a broken and twisted system that does not work except for the people who are great at using it to serve their own interests; ie the most narcissistic. This is not the criminal system (which also has serious problems) and there will be no “justice” because no one cares about protecting the people who have less power, usually the spouse who is not abusive and corrupt and most definitely children and pets. It’s a disgusting system and it will break a good person in the most long lasting and painful ways.
Now as a final thought, consider how extremely dangerous this entire process can become for the person who is trying to leave their abuser and protect their children. The process of family law allows the abuser to not only win total custody, but they can also legally attain any and all personal and medical records of the person who definitely has the need for shelter and privacy. The abuser can control the life and ultimately attempt to destroy and dismantle the victim. Imagine the consequences and violent fall out from the abuser gaining access to the entire text history of the victim to their parents or best friends. Imagine what happens after this “discovery” outside of the courtroom? The anger and danger that these processes amplify and propel at the victim. This is why I am saying there is no other system we participate in that is more dangerous and more harmful to children and abused spouses than family law. Family court washes its hands off any particular situation as soon as they leave the courtroom. No one is actually really invested in the quality of lives over a childhood or the masters of trauma and the consequences of being forced to live with the abusing and manipulating parent. The effects this has on their lives and relationships. The effects this has on society as a whole in the areas of the economy and health and mental wellbeing of millions of people. How many generations of people have had their lives ruined and had the quality of their lives decline in education and social abilities. The abusers who are created by example.
The fallout from this is enormous and much more complex than anyone has realized. It really should be something that is seriously studied by every sort of social scientists. Currently we only have people like Dr. Ramani examining this. And while she is stellar, she is also just one person. We have to change our ways. If we truly want the world to change we must critically consider the way our institutions harm us while we assume they work for us. They do not and in fact they undermine us when we are at our lowest. This is no way to order a society.
👏👏👏👏 I 💯 agree!
The perverse cruelty I witnessed in domestic violence incidents I had to deal with in a job I did for 17 years didn’t open my eyes (I grew up in such a toxic dangerous environment), but it gave me clarification and perspective and explanation of the dynamics and technical legal terms and the stupid games narcs play. Having to prove initially on balance if probabilities of offences to get DV orders for victims because they refused to protect their own kids for various (always inadequate) reasons, to proving offenses beyond reasonable doubt certainly helped me spot a DV abuser and victim quite quickly. Since I had been ‘groomed’ as a child by a violent abuser and a terrified unwitting enabler from a young age, I initially saw verbal and physical abuse and toxic behavior and gaslighting as something that must be accepted- though I never did and was subjected to it regularly so I would ‘be compliant’.💀. I moved far away at 21 to do this job. Rarely saw the family I grew up with but the 3 violent abusers I grew up with- well I’ve gone no contact with them since Mum died. They slowed their abuse when I went grey rock but amplified it once I came back physically close to them to help care for Mum as she was dying. One waited until Mum was ‘out of the house for good’ (just like old times), before she went for the full blown toxic verbal abuse and cruel actions. As Mum didn’t specify in the will who her belongings would go to, my sister and father have ensured what was to go to me and my kids as Mum requested to them as she was dying, will never get to us. I’m not fighting it. They are far too poisonous, too toxic, too violent and abusive to be around, let alone interact with. They are now complaining to other family members that I’ve cut contact. Lying saying they are the victims and some are buying it- with no evidence mind you. I called out the abuse to others outside the family and it got back to one abuser who claimed I’ve now made everyone’s life a misery and she is the one who has been the most abusive and cruel in her actions. A truly perverted sick individual. I’m done. My husband knows what has occurred and wants me to never speak to these people again or our children to have anything to do with them. I totally agree. I understand why spouses / siblings kill their abuser. They’re just getting in first - to get the abuser to - just… stop. Abusers will never stop abusing until they are either in solitary confinement, in a coma or dead.
👏
Yes. “ if you leave me I will destroy you “ said my ex to me. He kept his vow .
I am so sorry I hope you are okay I want a divoce after 37 years and terrified.. and sick with lyme god bless you always
I'm in 25 yrs , he screwed his first wife ! He was engaged to me at 20 ! I'm 46 now . He made his ex pay for divorce, claimed she was screwing him over , lol , I didn't know her . Wish I had . He lies ....
@@melindasmith3713 tragic. I’m so sorry
This brings so many memories. It’s been so long since I thought about any of this.I don’t know why I decided to listen to this video. I’m a big fan of Dr. Ramani. I wish I knew what I know now when I was divorcing my malignant narcissist years ago.Everything they’re discussing I’ve lived through. My abuser even tried to deport me. As an immigrant away from my family and my abuser being the one in charge, I didn’t think I’ll stand the chance against his narcissistic attorney.I want everyone to know that there are better days. It’s been 8 years for me and I’m thriving. Please, never give up.
I got my Divorce 04.03.23
2 years... im almost out the door, just need to sell the home and he is fighting left and right.
After watching this all of my fears about what it will be like to leave filled me with absolute dread. After surviving cancer and still healing while also shrinking in a narcissistic marriage, I dont think I have the inner warrior inside to withstand the torment of a divorce. I KNOW he would be every bit of the evil that was described. He also has complete control of all funds. This really hurts. Thank you for the extreme honesty here.
Don't dread!!! I made it out!!! You will too. Healed and Whole..find a good therapist who is familiar with narcissist abuse..above all ..Pray and TRUST God to bring you thru!!❤
Don’t let him control your life. Get mad and stand in your own strength. U do have the inner strength. Take it back
This is what's kept me from divorce FEAR !! 27 years of Hell !
Praying for you and your divine healing.
Don't let it scare you into thinking you're safe staying because you arent
Demetria is fully equipped of all the knowledge on how to provide rekevant answers to these narcissism issues. She's so brilliant that aliigns well with the interviewer's pursuits for sensible solutions to all her questions
I left my EX. After 29 years months ago I left with noughing but my clothes and finally just got my own place feeling blessed every single day. God's giving me more confidence and peace eveday. I can file for my divorce in September. Working on myself and relationship with my children
Prayers for your peace and relationships restored
11 years married, no children, no physical violence. I had my narc professional husband served papers. He didn't want to sign & proceed with a divorce, but told me he wanted me to come back so HE could save $ on taxes, no love mentioned of course. 16 years separated, he sold our home & he recently paid cash to have a bigger, new house built & furnished & lives there now. Our attorneys cost us each >$30,000. He hid so many assets, collectibles, stocks, accounts & LLC & he worked the system. Fortunately I had some of that paper proof, but not all. Money & control mean everything to him! This is a great podcast & I sure wish I'd seen it earlier! Our case was just finalized by the court last week & I didn't get much in the divorce settlement. Meanwhile he is retired now, still brings in $9,000 K/month & flaunts it. I will stay clear of narcassistic men & will never marry again.
The devil is the master narcissist.
married 18 years, I filed after dv-his actual words “gloves are off”
3 years later very successful in mediation as he failed to disclose despite multiple orders that stemmed from his narc lawyer filing so many wasteful claims. It’s a marathon that I might not have survived without a great group of friends, a councillor and a divorce coach. By the way he tried to label me as an alienator. Classic I changed lawyers and it was done in 6 months.
He succumbed to hate and died the day after our mediation/arbitration.
Thanks for this great presentation
Wait do you mean he died like literally? Or it’s just a metaphor you using please?
@@ChristIsReal121 literally
Oh my GOD 😮. Instant Judgment.. Thank God you are safe now 🙏
My divorce with my covert, narcissistic husband has been going fast because he has a shit ton of money and he’s afraid of financial exposure!
Greetings Dr Ramani, This episode is a Godsend to me. I initiated a divorce after 31 years of marriage to an abusive and utterly narcissistic spouse.
I'm really grateful for this advice, as I prepare for this divorce process. thank you for introducing me to Demetria Graves, what a wealth of information!
I recently sought out a Therapist and I hear you clearly about how vital it is to keep emotions in check in a court,
Thank you Dr Ramani for this crucial message to be strategic , tactical and supported🙏❤
The guest proved she has been there and done that.
Not all do that. Some trigger you and you find yourself over explaining. The one I’m married to, goes quiet and then I’m expressing myself because I feel he’s ignoring me. I’ve learned to no longer do that anymore.
I love this lawyer- she’s a powerhouse!!!! Bless her!!!!! If I had her in the beginning my precious children wouldn’t have had to suffer so much!
21:35 Exactly this. That was/is my experience. It has taken me since 2020 to be able to answer my phone, read email, not cringe when there is a knock on the door.
My daughter told me, about 5 years into the divorce, that she was having trouble sleeping because, “Daddy says he is going to make you homeless and broke.”
And people wonder why women don’t leave abusive men.
We need a group of professionals like these two to collaborate and come up with a personality evaluation for narcissistic behavior in the court system before starting a litigation. What a waste of legal and social resources to accommodate narcissist’s ambitions. For over four years now I have been trying to divorce my narcissist who is a former lawyer as well. He dragged me through everything that was discussed in this interview and more…canceled four mediations and fifth one was useless. Quit working, no child support and filled a ton of motions. We finally are making it to our first trial. I wish I’d have heard this interview years ago, I would not have aged 20 years like I did in the last four.
How do we get divorced when you are completely financially abused and have no way out. Are we just fucked....?
I feel the same way
@@lakishalewis6571 hopefully we can find a way.
Do you have any friends/family that will assist you with a plan?
Look for the cheapest rental in your area or apply for government housing. Get yourself an easy entry job in retail or waitressing and work your way from there. You are much better off piecing your life back together than being under the thumb of your abuser. Life is better on the other side. I promise.
My covert narc has refused to move out. Its been over 6 months. He keeps firing his attorney after 2 months and gets another one. He is on his 3rd. I've filed temporary orders and can't get a hearing set or mediation set because he keeps changing attorneys. This has been a living hell
Luckily I found a good attorney after I faced the facts of the trauma bond with the narc. I was in so much denial and trauma that I tried to fix my marriage and made some mistakes on the legal process. It has cost me alot with my power being sucked out of me. I am not wasting any tome or money and breaking free from the unhealthy bonds and most of all marriage. Namaste. Thank you Dr R and Ms. D esquire
First of all, you look beautiful Dr Ramani. This is a great topic. Guest knows her stuff. Appreciate and loving this new podcast. Thank you so much.
I left after 22 years. I rented a truck and loaded it while he was at work. It was the scariest thing ive ever done! 7 years free!
Omg thank you for this. My ex totally alienated me from our son and my friends, physically challenged me, visited my own family and tried to keep them as friends to badmouth me, and ong I can not even go on. 😢
This is a society that does not respect its children. And that's one of the major causes for children not to respect abusive parents.
Dr. Ramini is a BLESSING!! Thank you for what you do... these are difficult topics to cover but ESSENTIAL in our healing process.
I personally had several litigious feuds, not Divorce-related though... And i must say, all of these pointers that Ms. Graves presented our SPOT ON!... Many of which I had even used MYSELF, having been self-represented and luckily winning both trials...
Narcissism in court is an experience like NO other... and i believe that, at this age in my life, marrying ANY person is FUTILE if without proper contingencies in place... for instance, like a Prenup or perhaps a secondary form of income.
I honestly prefer just dating and having a swell time rather than committing to a particular one individual for whom i have little background information. Taking time to get to know people are IMPORTANT!
Thanks again ladies! ❤💚💜💛💕
I guess I should consider myself lucky after marrying a psychopath and a narcissist. At the time I did not even know what either really was. I got married older in life and I put very little energy and resources into the wedding, even though it was great! And my ex who is 13 years older, at the age of 50 convinced me that we shared many of the same common values and I realize later he had become the person that I wanted and needed at the time. Comes from a very well-known family from another English-speaking country, that has almost as high of a living standard as we do, and has led a life of privilege. There were literally no red flags the beginning and all of my friends and family became very endeared to this man who seemed so selfless. Right after we had the ceremony and reception, everything changed. His rage started peeking out several months later, and I experienced being the victim of some very unsettling and strange crimes. He would literally go out for happy hour, I wouldn't hear anything from him all night and he would arrive home drunk at 3:30 or 4 in the morning on a work night, and often when he got home he would just terrorize me by yelling and screaming at me. Because I had sponsored him, I couldn't just kick him out of my house, and the kept saying Love Me or Leave Me starting about 6 months into the marriage. Shockingly about a year until the marriage I came home from work and he and all his belongings had disappeared with absolutely no warning. He got his green card, and I think he really wanted access to my network a very influential policymakers, as well as access to my finances. He got the first and not the second and third, and by that time was already with another woman and probably thought that he wasn't able to get anything more from me and was extremely angry about it. Of course he did this right before Thanksgiving which he knew was my favorite holiday. He spent Christmas with my closest friends and Neighbors, and later found out that he started a smear campaign with them probably 6 months or more from the date of leaving me. I asked him what his reason was for leaving and he said that if he continued to stay with me that I would have a negative effect on his credit. I started seeing a therapist because all of these crazy things were happening, and this man being extremely charming and cunning had even co-opted my entire family. I'm glad that I went to see her because she told me flat out that this man is a psychopath and potentially dangerous. I began realizing that he had been using all sorts of Insidious manipulation tactics like ambient abuse straight out of the movie Gaslight. The stuff he was doing with clearly sickening. I immediately went Grey Rock without knowing it was a term and perhaps back then it wasn't! Despite having tons of resources, and securing a whole team of lawyers, I found it very strange. I consulted with several lawyers and they basically said you guys have been married for a year you have no community property and there's really nothing to dispute. Where I live abuse only is considered when it is physical. So there's nothing I could really say about that. Furthermore I was very careful because I did not want to anger him. Not having a lot of funds at the time I had no lawyer representing me. I had my cousin go with me to the hearing for moral support. He didn't dispute anyting and I think if he had even tried it could have exposed him for basically using me, because he left not too long after getting his green card so he was smart enough not to raise anything. Furthermore all of his money was in offshore financial institutions and he kept everything very hidden. So if something triggered the system to require him to relinquish his financial records, furthermore that would put him under additional scrutiny. So ironically for me this process was very easy and I represented myself! Even as the victim of narcissistic abuse! Having to see him at the hearing made me so anxious, and when the courts were preparing the paperwork and divorce decree they asked us to wait in the back of the courtroom. My ex proceeded to sit down right next to me and start massaging my back. This absolutely made my skin crawl. And I had to get out of there. My cousin who is with me and noticed, and pulled me out to go get some coffee downstairs and then wait in the the hall. My advice is as soon as you detect there is a narcissist or psychopath that you were duped by and married, start seeing a therapist and start crafting a plan. Fortunately my own intuitions stopped him from getting into my finances and other things that he could have messed with. Find a way to get out as soon as you're able and if you can't get out because the abuser is living in your home, make sure you do not give them anything that you think that they want. They will see no use for you and they will leave. And the most important thing is to never have a child with one of these people or that will ruin the rest of your life.
I ended up having a child whose father is somewhat narcissistic, but he's really not sophisticated like my ex-husband. He became abusive right after my daughter was born and I was able to get a restraining order to get him to leave my house and to leave my daughter and me alone. Despite the fact that I had a restraining order and supervised visits we're not being done because of the pandemic, the family courts basically disregarded the domestic violence Court's ruling and made me in charge of supervised visits. They eventually gave him unsupervised visits in which he would take my daughter and his car without a proper car seat. She was like one or two years old. He would also show up with alcohol on his breath and pick her up and take her away. Despite telling the court this and the fact that both of these things are not only extremely unsafe, they're both illegal. Oh, and yes he also had a reckless driving charge on his record that was not terribly old at that time. They didn't care at all. And I was forced to give up my daughter to a man who didn't care about her safety. So when they say that the family courts are all about giving rights to the abusive one. They don't care that another Court in the same court system found him to commit domestic violence, but basically do things with our daughter that put her In Harm's Way. It was really surreal for me. Fortunately he moved out of state, and the visits ended. He didn't even want to talk to her on video phone. I eventually got the courts to grant me child support. But not wanting to pay this and having several things on his record to include the domestic abuse, he knew that as a green card holder, the courts would eventually track him down and he could risk his status. So he signed over all of his rights. Life has been very hard, even though I don't have to deal with any of his BS anymore. But I had never planned to be a single mother, and it's been 4 years since I've been able to work, and have not had a day off ever since. Having to fund everything myself and not being able to get any assistance whatsoever because I own a 2-unit dwelling, and receive rental income from one of them, it renders me ineligible. I deal with a lot of anger especially stemming from the part that he manipulated me into having a kid with him, and this was actually not our first because the first go-around did not go smoothly, and I felt that he was invested and having a kid. I never expected he'd be the father of the year but I never expected that he would put me through hell, only to completely abandon his daughter. Even though I'm not obligated I allow him to chat with his daughter and he has no interest. It just also makes me really sad for her. I guess the moral of the story is that there are cases where it is not in the narcissist interest to fight, because it could expose them. And even after years of fighting in the family courts, some narcissists end up backing out completely because when required to take on certain responsibilities they don't like, they just give up.
😮
23:09
Started putting all my special stuff and my belongings in my truck. Took a small vacation to Tennessee, procured a job, went back, packed a few more things, gave my 2 week notice, said my goodbyes, and moved into an abandoned, condemned cabin, fixed it up a Lil, in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, so happy I abandoned him and all my other stuff. Freedom from him is worth the loss of the house/money...
A service to humanity. Thank you for posting.
Holy Cow, Demetria Graves hit every phase of my 4 1/2 yr. If my horrific divorce! Maybe I was stupid, but I decided to stay until my children were young adults, so I wouldn't have to deal with the moving or child support! But I took abuse and was a wreck, trying to shield my emotions from my kids for 32 years. Did I fail some time, Yes! After 42 years of marriage, I filed for divorce, and fortunately he moved out to his girlfriend. I asked people who was a bulldog attorney, and I hired her. She was awesome. She actually had a few little nick nacs that clients gave her of witches riding brooms! Cracked me up! Anyway, he totally cut me off financially, not 1 cent. He was supposed to give me temp support and pay for my legal fees. He didn't. He didn't supply financials,claiming he had no money. He didn't. He fought every decision and took it to the state Supreme court. My 1st attorney didn't want to drive 3 hrs to plead for me. Enter 2nd attorney, $$$. Then the States, Iowa and Illinois 2ndly, put a $250,000.00 lien on the farm, almost half of its value, for his back taxes. Fortunately the IRS was only after him, because unbeknownst to me, as I was cosigning a fake tax return filing, had been not paying under filing Married but Separate. As far as the State liens, enter 3rd added tax attorney who fought for me under Innocent Spouse and we won that,after Supreme court decision. After 3 1/2 years and getting me the farm, but no divorce yet, she stepped down. She told me she was sick of him. He was a physician, sold his practice and kept the $$. We just let that go. He bought himself a new Harley and put it in her name. There was so much more. The last straw was when my mother-in-law sued me for $$ he owed her. I had #4 attorney to take over the rest of the divorce and divorce decree, or bifurcation as you called it. And as you said, Narcissists are charming from the start. But fortunately the judges eventually saw through it. I never cried as hard as that was! I kept quiet and let my attorney handle everything in court. All I wanted was to keep my dignity,and I did. The judges even put him into the County jail for Contempt of Court, Failure to Produce, and a 3rd thing that I can't remember. My adult kids were pissed,& thought that I did it,until it was explained why legally this happened. He did it to himself. I have to take the time to say that I was blessed to have my father,who was fortunately able to support me while I had to close my business, give away my Champion horses and feed them minimally until they were gone! He also paid all of my attorneys' fees, which almost totaled $250,000.00 !OMG. The court ordered both of us to pay half to his mother. At this point my attorney asked me how badly I wanted this mess over and this was the only time I burst into tears. He knew that this was my answer! We were divorced,no decree, no $$ ever, and 6 mos. He died! No will so even his kids got money. Maybe it's in Switzerland and/or Cayman islands. We will never know. And finally, I had no idea how horrible the divorce would be! The worst experience of my life, and I had Polio and 15 orthopedic surgeries by the age of 14! I aged at least 15-20 years, no joke! Sorry I talked so much, but I really felt I needed to give a real person 's experience of divorcing a Narcissist! Fortunately I had prepared a little, but was still blindsided by this horrible person. You keep asking how they can do this to you? Because they're a Narcissist, and only they and the win matter! The sooner you realize that, the better off you will be. And you don't have to make the next episode of "The Real Housewives of..."! Thank you Dr. Ramani for bringing us this wonderful woman, your discussion and enlightenment, and as always your clear and concise explanations! And even though it was all after the fact for me, it reassured me that I didn't do too many things wrong or badly. It was nice for me to feel good about myself and how I handled this whole horrific situation! ❤❤🤗💖💐🌹
Thank you for sharing your story 🌺
Even rough patches and Major glitches will seem like a heavenly breeze after All of that.
Enjoy life to it's fullest. You earned and deserve it! Namaste
You and your freedom from living under the control of a narc is worth it. My experience has been hell. I don’t question anything that you have outlined in your response. Remind yourself everyday that you look in the mirror how amazing you are and that you are worth everything that life has to offer! Enjoy!!
Thanks so much Ms. Graves and Dr. Ramani. It helps us to know that someone out there knows all about narcs and how they operate. It gives us strength to know that someone understands the situation.
While I agree, most people don't see someone with NPD in all their glory until it's too late. I know from experience that they are great pretenders. They play the long game, and will have you questioning yourself and all that you know. Even when you do start to become wise to what they are about, you are already conditioned to question your own judgement.
When your narcissist is flying high in a new relationship, go for that divorce. You might want to let them think they're winning.
Sadly, as a therapist; I had to walk my friend through this. Her attorney was great! But he didn't understand narcissism. The judge ordered her and her traumatized kids into family therapy with her abusive narcissistic ex-husband🤦🏾♀️
😭😭😭😭
Sad because Judges are pretty oblivious - even after, Trumb|p!
Horrid!
I can't get divorced, I don't have the money to go through all that (he denies me access to the "joint account" we have ) and my husband won't do it for me not to have half of what he owns. Narcissist real motive not to divorce.
Legal aid. My narcissist ex used them so he could afford to drag it out.
DRr. Ramani, no words can express how thankful I am for this podcast ep.
My ex is the rare friendly presenting controlling person. The ultimate “nice guy” victim that’s willing to give you “everything” but then goes back and changes “everything” to suit them…all with a smile until you object to something. Then they do a show of anger that makes it look like you are the one that’s being unreasonable in the face of all that faked niceness and generosity.
It’s a trip. He got everything he wanted. Drug the whole thing out for hours until we were all frustrated and just wanted to leave.
I've learnt so much! Thank you for bringing this gorgeous and gifted woman!
I think my dad went through this with his second wife. Took a year to get the divorce, they had no kids together. She finagled lifetime alimony for a 15 year marriage. Too bad he didn't listen to her first husband, who warned dad "she's vindictive and will destroy you".
That’s so sad
If you choose to leave, do so like it’s his idea, block him straight away on all social media and phone etc. Go no contact. Let family and friends know your marriage has collapsed. He will go on a smear campaign, let him. Get an experienced lawyer if you have to. Just remember eventually you will be free. Keep calm and do not engage.
Quietly and strategically
He initiated the divorce , thought that would hurt me. Once I got the ball rolling he refused to comply and communicate with my attorney .He was silly because as he acknowledged being served I could move forward with the proceedings . Out of his narcissistic rage he dared me while he was living his double life. 11 months after no communication and me informing him prior that it’ll cost if he doesn’t comply (I payed all the fees) . He was so drunken by his arrogance ( thinking I wouldn’t leave because this wasn’t our first rodeo) all while parading his new supply ( it’s the lack of fore-site for me).
Anyway In the email hoovering because he was blocked everywhere begging for us to meet face to face to sign papers , I responded “ my solicitors sent you the final paperwork 2 months ago,we are no longer married,now leave me alone “
During the discarding he was big and bold so this reaction was not what I was expecting . Infact It was extremely wired like he became a child I was communicating with a child . A bittersweet moment because I realised I was playing chess and checkmated a child. A child who wasn’t ready for the big world. (Like that movie with Tom Hanks “BIG” when he deflated at the end) It was weird because it was my moment to feel victorious but I felt sad I pitied him, I felt angry because it was a game for him all along ( I love children, I would do anything to bring joy to my Nephew’s life) I didn’t became drunken with power and that wasn’t fair considering the disrespect,insults and abandonment. It was one of the weirdest feeling ever to experience.
The divorce wasn’t something I wanted to do it was a thing that I needed to do as the Adult in that dynamic,as an adult you have to make tough decisions. My nephew who turned 9 years of age last week,whom I love and respect his wishes and boundaries If it were up to him ,he’ll stay in his favourite theme park all day until closing time but as the adult I have to make the final decision when it’s time to go home .
Sending hugs 🫂 healing and recovery to you all 🌸
I’m only -10 minutes into the podcast… everything on the checklist is accurate. So accurate. I wish I had heard this back in 2014 when I decided to divorce my narcissistic ex-husband. It took 6 very long years. I ran out of money to fight, so he won. Everything.
I would definitely want her to represent me.
This topic hits close to home. My husband's childhood bestfriend married his then girlfriend right after graduation; She convinced him to move them to California so she could join the military. And he cut off all contacts with family and friends back home. After 10 years, he reached back out to my husband, admitting that he was going through a divorce (should have listened to my husband to not rush into marriage), had been kicked out of the house, and was lost and confused. Once back in our homestate, he admitted that their marriage and sex life died after 5 years, but he held on until his wife filed for divorce and took everything they owned.... ~sigh~ I have never seen such a broken person, who still loves the other person :(
Thanks for another good talk. It's good to know we are not alone. I have been through the gaslighting but I didn't know what it was. When I realised something was wrong which was bills not getting paid, I called my daughter to see if she thought I was losing it. She said mum dad is gaslighting you I had to ask her what she meant, she she told me. I felt it painful the person who was suppose to love me was doing this to me. Manipulation was the same. It's only through these channels I have been educated. It's been so painful dealing with it and I have cried a lot. I have called him out on things and he denies it or blames me. I used to be afraid but not anymore. I have not spoken to him for 7 months. I do my own thing. I'm so grateful to you for you helping me. ❤😊
I love this lawyer . The voice so calm . How she explains so clear and on point .
This discussion was incredibly helpful. It helped clarify how I can help my husband, who was recently divorced from a woman who didn't really take parenting seriously, and only wanted 50% custody for the money. I have given him some of the advice mentioned here, one of which is "Don't engage." on anything that is not specific to reporting medical or other factual information relating to the kids. Just say "have your attorney reach out to my attorney." Don't argue. Don't justify. Don't explain.
Edit: He has four boys, two are in the Army, and two still living at home. They are amazing kids and I love them. The youngest is 15 and is very damaged by the significant neglect from his mother. It is an honor and a huge responsibility to be there as a mother figure for him. I never, ever, disparage his mom, just listen.
I divorced. And I’m back. Living with him again after several years apart. We tried but it’s so clear to me now. Because of my RUclips degree in narcissism. He tried to put a ring back on it right away. I’m working on moving out literally today. Best wishes, ya’ll. Stay strong.
OMG.. the one thing you didn't say is to put your some money away before you start!
It's was the most eye awakening day of my life. I will never forget going to ATM and he had no money in account for me and children family had to Western Union money. It was 20 years and the mask was off by then. You forgive but don't forget
You know it’s a narcissist or borderline when a person’s gone through 3 or more attorneys
This conversation is informative but also makes me more afraid than ever and hopeless
Now you tell me 😮😫I’m in it now.