Ask Dr. Ramani: How To Go "No Contact" with a Narcissist | Season 2; Ep 29
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2023
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Dr. Ramani answers your deep questions about the most difficult - but most effective - way to heal from narcissistic abuse: going no contact.
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Narcissists are everywhere and these days it seems like everyone has at least one in their lives! Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist, will help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life. Every Thursday, we will hear first-hand accounts from people who know this territory the best, the survivors.
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This might be TMI. but after I went low contact with my narcissist , My Cycles went back to normal I seriously thought there was something wrong with me. it's amazing how much psychological harm these relationships actually do to us.
BRAVO! God BLESS and keep fighting a good fight!
That's not unusual. After I left "home" and my narc mother, my digestion immediately improved.
And just as a side note my narcissist always thought that my cycle was disgusting.
I ,"IN HIS EYES"
had no value when I was menstrating. What is actually disgusting is his soul.
I actually decided this month to go NC because my mom stressed me out so much that I missed my period. I feel you!
I can absolutely relate . Glad your doing better! I know the stress I experienced even talking to them was devastating to my mental health!
Sometimes these videos are a lot more helpful than talking to a therapist or friends. Most people don't know enough about this subject to steer you in the right direction.
Yeah they really don't understand the depth of narcissistic relationships.
True. Sometimes friends make it worse when they say, “oh he/she means well,” etc.
More likely they're going to do damage to you or give you really bad advice it's a disgrace that the psychology industry does not have the intelligence that doctor ramani has
So true!
They have been helpful with me for sure. Most therapists and religious leaders can be enablers when it comes to narcissism.
14:40 "Narcissistic people are fighters. They like the fight."
Someone said, "I'm a fighter, not a quitter," but when it comes to a narcissistic relationship, I'm a quitter, not a fighter 😊
It's like quitting smoking.
It's not quitting. Its accepting. They ain't going to change.
Sometimes I like to annoy them with LoGIc 😂. They read it like fighting.. when actually is just applying logic to their completely non logic and non ethical behaviour. But it feels good to corner them😂. Sometimes, I do not recommend it unless you're untriggerable..
@@GeorgideMarne They feel confused with logic. They cannot understand it even if it's a clear logic. 😅
@GeorgiFra you sound like a narcissist.
I was getting sick thats how i knew no contact
That can happen when the people in your camp are actively trying to destroy you and won’t ever admit it when they’re confronted, unless that many things build up and are tossed back to them all at once. When it’s like that it’s harder for them to deny but easier for you yourself to know where you stand.
Me too. I had a full on full body trauma response - intense pain from head to toe, couldn’t sleep or eat or basically function in any way. I knew then I had to cut ties. It was my body’s way of telling me and I finally listened.
To decide when to go no contact, try to imagine you are your dearest bestfriend being abused, bullied, disrespected, criticized, controlled etc. endlessly and what you will advise her to do. Then you will wonder why you stupidly stayed and didn't go no contact ages ago...
I never heard of Yellow Rock before but I've instinctively done it and it's very effective! Also appreciate the idea of rehearsing how you'd handle seeing a narcissist again, and treating it as a sick day. I went no contact with my elderly narc aunt I was helping after she became unrelentingly passive aggressive when I set a *basic* boundary about my own health. The guilt recedes. *We owe no loyalty to those who abuse us.*
You are right we do not owe the people who abused us
@@angelaholmes8888 Amen. Amen!
I totally agree
But Narcissists are very hard to get rid of And they may become violent at any
moment …from anything they perceive as a HUGE Threat!!!
Low contact may be best 🤷🏻♀️
4 days no contact
Yellow Rock about one step down from a forced 'kids voice and tone' one has to use in an elementary age classroom I imagine. I feel like I'm literally setting up a day for a child talking to my disorganized fearfully attached narc.
I went no contact with my own kid. The abuse was killing me and the disrespect was off the charts. We both eventually got sick from the loss of our child and grandchild, and we’re still struggling every day. It sure hasn’t been easy. But putting up with that kind of mental abuse wasn’t either, and we’re glad it’s out of our lives. It’s been many years, and it’s certainly too late now, but trust me when I say that these people just get worse and worse and worse. You will snap sometimes and look like the crazy one, but you know and I know you are NOT. Don’t look for other people to validate your decision. They won’t, and often time family who don’t get it will shun YOU and believe you’re the problem. That’s because they’ve been told lie after lie and they believe that you are a bad person. Resist the urge to talk badly about them to others. Pretty soon others will notice that the narc is the only one talking, triangulating and telling tales. It might take years, but give them time. There is no winner, everyone loses here, so forget that aspect of it. Your journey to regain self respect began with going no contact. Stay in that frame of mind as much as you can. Good luck.
Wow ..your own child makes the narcissistic injury 10 times worse..🤯
I feel bad for you. I have almost the same situation. But, I made no contact woth my adult child because she started to talk my narcissistic mother‘s words. Somehow, my parents stole my child. We used to have very close relatiobship (or I thought so). Then, I got big challenges in my life - and everything got ruined. Yeah, I think my mom uses my daighter asya flying monkey. I got very angry and said bad words that I regret deeply now.
However, my intuition says: Let time tell… the story is not over yet. I agree with you that at the end, the truth will be revealed.
Whatever happens, though, to live in peace is precious. Continuous fighting is exhausting. I wish that you will be ok and something very good comes to you! ❤
Cousin Toxic, [ cousin havoc& Drama] now writes SCOLDING lettees critiquing me- followed by " I love you& Miss hou( ugh)!! I feel FREE!!
The grey wall is how the narc treats you already right ?
But if your kid is a narc, that generally means yourself or the other parent is a narc. Two normal people don’t raise narcs its from childhood trauma.
I hate how ppl are shamed by society for going no contact 59:25 ... after experiencing narc abuse ,if someone says I havent spoken to my MIL/ sibling etc.. for 5 years ,I say "good for you , how did you manage that?"
This episode was absolutely brilliant. I was nodding at everything that came out of Dr Ramani's mouth. She is so validating. ❤
I didn't tell her I was going NC, nor did I write a letter (to her) after the fact. I wrote it to her latest husband (read: hostage). He asked my dad about some of it, and found out she'd been lying completely comprehensively on every subject imaginable for years (surprise!).... If their lips are moving, they are lying.
I told my ex, I know when you’re lying. He said how? (of course thinking he’s going to get information to improve his skills)
I said because your lips are moving. He chuckled & nodded his head up and down. They know.
Good for you for speaking up for him. So few people do that, and it can make all the difference.
15:30 *How do you know when to go no contact?* I so relate to an unforgivable comment (or actually a series of comments) being the final straw. It was like something in me snapped and the empathy/attachment blinders finally fell from my eyes. Instead of viewing her selfishness as a quirk, I saw clearly that she doesn't care about my wellbeing and was just feeding on me like a perpetually hungry monster. 🚫🧛♂
Sometimes I'm still shocked by all the previous unforgivable comments and actions that *didn't* make me call it quits. Reminding myself that I was literally programmed from childhood to not have needs and to tolerate users helps with the self-blame. Also, I LIKE that I'm an empathetic, forgiving person who sees the best in people and gives second chances. I just know better now who to reserve those goodies for, including me. : - )
Can you please, tell a bit about your story, bc that helps so many of us to know, not to wait so long to do what’s best for OURSELVES, to love, and rescue ourselves. Thanks🛟❤
I have already been preparing what I am going to say if I happen to run into my narcissistic ex and he tries to talk to me: "I appreciate your desire to talk, but I need some space right now. Thanks." and just walk away.
you dont even have to appreciate their desire..just" sorry need to do something right now, cant talk..bye"
Maybe because I’m a man but I straight up ignore them like somebody idk asking me for money on the streets. I went thru it recently and it kinda made me feel bad but then I remembered all the times they never once cared or a apologized for the crap they put me thru and I know I did the right thing. I’m not a vengeful person so to me get back is pointless but honestly when I think about it what was I gonna talk about and anything they had to say, why would I possibly care or would I even believe them because of how badly they’ve lied to me in the past?
Sorry for the long response but maybe if somebody saw this it would help them not feel so bad.
Although I had low contact with my narcissistic mother I encouraged my kids to enjoy their grandparents. After my father died my narc mother began to triangulate using my son. He was furious. He now refuses to see her; she is 98 years old and he says that he won't even go to her funeral.
It never occurred to me that my narc mother would risk her relationship with my kids. It's horrible.
Yep, they'll just abuse them too if you allow it unfortunately😮💨.This is why I have 0 plans to let my own kids meet their grandfather on my side or their grandparents on the other side.
these are gremlins ,hopeless..😒
thankfully you raised a loving ,level headed son👍🏼❤️
A narcisist is a narcissist they do not have feelings. So they will not feel like they are mean or cruel, they just are to get a reaction out of people. Zero contact if we know they are, they will be narcissistic to the nieces, sons, grandchildren. Remember the are an open empty can. They are always pretending to love.
“The subtlety is what throws people off….” This is sooooo true. I questioned my own sanity so many times because of this. Finally going complete No Contact was the best thing I ever did!
We went NC with narcissist MIL without trying back in early 2020. We had a loss and she said something cruel and dismissive, my husband told her not to call until she was ready to apologize. We haven't heard from her since, but her husband did ask us for money. Life is much better without her in it.
My husband is narcissistic I’ve been married 42 years I’m finally distant myself I’m clear in my mind i
asking for an apology is a sure way to get rid of a narc👍🏼😏
Definitely agree about others feeling overly entitled to weigh in on our decisions to go No Contact. The old phrase “mind your own business” still applies, right ? Also nobody judges the narcissist for mistreating us, but once we cut ties, then everyone judges us. That’s society’s fault that narcissists are never held accountable for their actions or behavior, but we are scapegoats even if we do nothing.
If your father is a real narcisisst as you say why would you want your kids around him. 🤔
My thoughts exactly
Why are you trying to destroy a family you have no investment in, from behind a keyboard, stranger? Mind your business.
Wouldn't it be better to keep your family (spouse and kids) away from narcissistic people?? They could mess up your loved ones the same way they messed you up. I wouldn't want anyone else to go through the crap that I went through
Speaking from a males perspective and as an ex stepfather, sometimes there’s nothing you can do but leave them in that situation. Eventually they’ll lie to them and make you out as the bad guy though you been thru it all with the child. Being a co-parent with a narc is impossible especially if you have no biological connection with the child. I just had to let them both go and move on. I feel bad leaving the child I raised for 7 years but even the child has been treating me as if I never been there for her and she introduced the child to the new “supply” and honesty if it’s that quick to forget about a man that raised you since childhood then so be it. I get it she’s young she’s 12 now but dang less than a year? That’s pretty sorry if I’m honest.
IF you have hypervigilance when your phone TINGS! And avoiding a specific person which causes you to IGNORE many other's is a HUGE RED FLAG! You are mentaly safer and more able to carry on a normal day if you CUT all contact with them!
Forgive them and u ( no emotions to heal u) but NEVER forget who is the enemy
I believe my Mom is bad for myself AND my kids. I don't trust her. I've caught her lying and fabricating things so many times. She's a manipulator and a deceiver. Chose to go no contact and that includes with my kids too. Hope I made the right choice.
Had an emotionally & verbally abusive uncle, who,when I went no contact with because enough was enough and I refused to be his punching bag,(after suffering abusive behaviour in our home in my mom's presence when I was about 23/24,)turned cousins & other relatives against me. Leopards don't change their spots lifelong.Abusers enjoy being the way they are...putting on masks of decency in public & with others they don't have to meet on a regular basis.After my father's funeral,15 years later, he hurled an expletive at me,refusing to return the bookshelves my mother had had made for me, and never returned much of my father's belongings which were in my grandma's house, including important documents, though it was clearly in the will, to be given to me.
I let the 'stuff' go as peace of mind was more important to me than having to even see or hear this mean man again. Ashamed of him immensely and totally avoid him & his equally hate-filled enabling family.
I'd like to answer the question by Kelly about going no-contact with an aging parent. Speaking from experience here. Being a caregiver to an elderly narcissist parent is a special circle of hell that will push even a super hero beyond their endurance. As narcissists age, they don't get any easier to deal with, they get meaner in ways that will surprise even you who have already seen them at their worst. You can gray rock yourself into oblivion, but the narcissist simply can't move on and leave you alone because all their other sources of supply -- spouses, friends, neighbors -- are either dead, alienated or moved away. When you're the last family member holding the bag for elder care, then baiting and tormenting YOU is their only source of entertainment. Because the power dynamic in the relationship has shifted -- they are dependent on you now -- they will treat you with vicious antagonism to compensate. Their usual weapons of obligation and guilt are more potent because of their fragile health and age. If you had anything to do with getting them into a care environment, like moving them into assisted living or even your own home, they will complain constantly to make you feel guilty and then blame you directly for everything wrong in their life. They will talk endlessly about how much they want to die even though they have multiple doctor appointments every month that you manage and take them to, and if you miss setting up a doctor appointment, expect Category 5 rage. If you think there might be a moment of tenderness at their bedside when they are gravely ill, not only will that not happen, they will use the opportunity to get in some last minute gaslighting and passive-aggressive manipulation. Expect nuclear-level cruelty as they will need their parting words to cause enough pain and guilt to last the rest of your lifetime after they're gone. Don't worry though, they'll pull through and will have many more chances, because your narcissistic parent will live to an age decades older than you could ever hope to. But really the worst thing about caregiving for an elderly narcissist parent is how it causes you to have thoughts and feelings that go against your values as a human -- actively hating someone you once thought you loved and actively hoping and praying for their death. Worrying about a narcissist parent aging alone and abandoned pales in comparison.
So very true.I know I won't give a 💩 about whatever happens to my own narc dad in old age...I will feel bad for any nursing home staff that gets stuck with him though🤭.
My friend’s mother was a covert narcissist. Her husband was the main victim of the narcissistic behavior until he died then it was all directed at my friend. For the last two years of her mother’s life, my friend spent every day in the aged care facility with her mother. She was unable to not answer the phone or say no. I gently pointed out that her mother’s behavior was not normal and she needed to look after herself. She couldn’t sadly.
I’ve never seen anyone be so relieved when their parent died.
OmG ..hell is a place on earth, cos demons are all over 😒
17:45 no contact practice almost gives you a chance to build your muscle when it comes to being hoovered or sucked back in, it helps you build your muscle, to see what it feels like to not have this person around, to leaen new ways of communicating, to holding your ground
Luckily for me my narcissist of a father is in prison been there for 20 years I haven't had any contact with him since I was 16 years old and I'm very relieved when he was around it was always drama with him he stole from my mother and my brother and me when I was a child he was at times emotionally and verbally abusive especially when he was on drugs I don't miss him not at all
lucky you👍🏼
The Problem is also: The line you set can be violated by yourself. I also said: never let somebody hit me or cheet me and step by step i lost my boundaries….
What do you do when they invite themselves over unannounced? This happens quite often. Help!
My half-brother is a coercively-controlling narcissist.
My mom was living w/him for a couple of years, and she constantly complained about how antagonistic, and abusive he was to her, all the time. They had constant arguments, and she fell, and had some kind of a stroke, while living w/him. I went to get her out of his place, and away from him. While I was there, he kept forcing my mom every night to wake up in the middle of the night to “pray” the rosary, and, also would wake us up like clockwork, every morning at 4:30 am, “or, else,” while my mom, and I were sleeping, he kept waking us up. When I stood up to him, because of his constant harassment, and abuse, he started lunging at me, also, hitting me w/his kitchen towels, kicking my bed where I was laying, and denying upsetting my sleep, plus, he was fiercely verbally abusive towards me too, and going behind my back, and slandering me to even to his neighbors, our relatives, and my friends! He was
threatening me that, “he was going to the family and the world, about me,” to get them all to turn against me.” And, he has already triangulated w/the relatives, and even called the police on me, “that I’m ‘mean,’ to him, and mom, because I’m denying access to his mother!” He is abusive to her, and me, my mom has dementia, I am taking care of mom, and he’s trying to control me, with his irrational, and coercive advice long-distance, regarding “mom’s care!” That man was/is a total nightmare, and very upsetting to me. He has sent several lying e-mails to family members, and made many phone calls to them w/twisted lies about me, guilting me, for blocking him. I have blocked him, in order to protect my mom, and myself, w/me, being the caregiver. Then, he called to police w/lies, to come knocking on my door at 10 pm, on a Sunday night! My poor mom got so abused by him, that she lost her mind, and speech. Now, I’m several states away from him w/my mom, and I’ve been taking care of her 18/day x7 days a week. But, my brother still has been calling relatives, slandering me to them, and they now keep calling, and texting me about my brother calling them, that he’s not able to talk to mom, and why am I being so mean to him!? His flying monkeys are now taking my precious time and energy I have left, to take care of me, and my mom! Brother keeps giving me “instructions” on all the things I “need” to do w/mom, when I in fact am doing everything a caretaker does, and mom is very well taken care of, and I have nurse aides coming to my home 3x a week. But, my brother who never even clipped her nails while she was living w/him, and her nails were like claws, he keeps sending me razor gadgets for me to cut her nails, and sending me strong, and exotic elixirs that he keeps mailing me, to “heal” her dementia,” And, he keeps harrassing me on the phone, that I must give her the concoctions he sends her, telling me, that, “if I refuse to give them to her, ‘that I’m denying him,’ to cure mom’s dementia!!” As though he’s the doctor, and the healer! I’m already so worn out taking care of my mom, on a 24/7 basis, but, the stress of dealing w/my brother, is worse. I have given into him, and the guilt he lays on me, for “cutting him out of her life,” but, my mom has now dementia, and she has never mentioned him once, in the year we’ve been away from him. Then, I feel bad, that if my mom passes, and her son didn’t say goodbye, he will blame me for the rest of my life, and I will also blame myself. So, I unblock him, and answer his calls for him to talk to mom, then, he starts nagging her, if she’s taking the concoctions he sends her, and complains to her about me, and goes on lecturing me, and then, he hangs up the phone. Not one time, has he asked me, as the caretaker, how am I doing? Or thanking me, for being kind to mom, and taking good care of her. Even though mom has dementia, she seems agitated and depressed every time he calls, and, I feel dirty, and run over in my soul.
So, shall I go no contact w/him until mom passes on, and have the rest of her relatives turned on me, which, by the way, they’ve been my brother’s flying monkeys. This situation feels like I’m in a prison!
Wow I'm so sorry that you had to deal with someone like that you are making a wise choice to cut off contact with your narcissistic brother
You need to go contact with your brother. Also, it seems you have a few relatives you need to be firm with as well. None if these people have the right to harass you.
Definitely, fighting to them means you still care enough about them to care about what they think. Fighting, in my ex’s mind, kept me in his life. Yellow rocking and not taking the bait did more to drive home the point I was done, than anything I could have said or announced.
Once I did more healing (self care, making myself my own best friend, speaking up for myself); I evaluated my friendships, past relationships where I still had low contact. I decided to go no contact for some and yellow rock for my parents. I would go no contact with them but they are older and care to know about their health.
I've gone no contact with my sister on and off for 20 years. The last stint was for 3 years and I felt great. My father passed away a year ago so I had to reengage with her. It was good for about 2 weeks, then went right back to hell. Now that everything is settled with his passing, I have gone back into no contact and feel 1,000% better, again. The only thing that will break this no contact will be when we need to tend to my mom, depending on how she ages. I am more prepared now for how I will engage with her when that time comes, thanks to listening to many of Dr. Ramani's videos.
18:49 right on the spot I feel sick before I see certain people feel sick when near them and feel sick afterwards.. I found out the best thing to do is when I see them to immediately leave and their power is lessened and their effect is lessened
Through gray rock I discovered that my parents really are narcissists. I always did what they wanted and asked. I had already set my limits several times and was often told not to be so silly and bland. I was still hesitant because I thought I hadn't seen any anger about anything. the last time I had no voice due to a cold and gray rock was a little easier. They kept pushing for a response that I kept saying: I have no voice, what more can I say now. That's when everything exploded... and the days after the no contact they showed me all the tricks as predicted what would happen. really mind blowing to experience this. it was extremely sobering that she reacted that way. When I started to look deeper and more consciously at what was actually happening in my life, I had to admit to myself for the first time that the behaviors had never been okay. It's heartbreaking to have to admit this. Since I went no contact, my stress has reduced and I have almost no tendency to eat emotionally anymore. It remains difficult to ignore their tricks every time. They have already tried everything that I would have responded to in the past, but I don't want to respond to this anymore. quite hard to do, but it does help to remind yourself that their behavior will not change because you have experienced that so many times. I am grateful for the advice and your book, which I have learned a lot from.
We had to make the decision not to have my children around my father and stepmother, because they would badmouth my husband and I to my child. Also, they would have nothing to do with my stepchildren (whom I was raising). They would send my son home with tons of gifts and nothing for my stepchildren. It was just hurtful on so many levels.
When my son got to where he could drive, I let the decision be his. He has been in counseling since we went no contact and his contact has lessened to very, very low contact since we let him have the decision.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. My mother is the Covert Narcissist, and yes, the relationship is highly complicated. She is the matriarch of the family, so there are considerable cultural and religious pressures to not rock the boat for us, as her daughters. But, both my sister and I have had multiple romantic partners who were also Narcissists. The concept of the "yellow rock" is very helpful to me, because my mother's hold on the family is strong. Cutting off contact completely would result in being shunned by the family, and could ultimately result in being disowned. The wise choice is to tread lightly, so I am glad that you touched on this topic.
Maybe this is what is meant by firewall approach, but I’ve learned to use grey rock for situations where intense reactions are wanted from me (like opinions on political issues) because showing no interest leads narcissist to find others to argue with which is what is wanted, and then I use yellow rock on safe topics like showing interest when narcissist wants to talk about himself etc if I have some energy to give it so narcissist is not always getting the grey rock, which avoids that argument. I also grey rock whenever the topic is about me because I’ve learned finally I must guard my heart to survive. The hardest part with grey rocking is it must be done with entire being including body and facial and voice expressions. They are so sensitive they can easily read anger, resentment snd bitterness when it’s seething below the surface. So I get alone if it all possible or am silent until I can get the poker face on and be calmly unemotional when respond
I kept trying to be nice by sending pictures about my daughter but there came a point where his litigious nature just got to me and I told him I was tired of his unkind attitude and to only reach out if it was court ordered. That was two years ago. And you nailed it. It truly feels like a death.
I’ve also cut off all ties with people who chose to keep in contact with him. Only my daughter offers up info here and there out of frustration. She is 19 and barely sees her dad now. My son went no contact before I did, about 18 months before I did.
Making me cry. It'll be 20 years this year that I cut contact with my sister, shortly after Mom died. Our family dynamics was very toxic, with a father convicted for child abuse, a mother just waving it away as a disease, all siblings coping differently. Nothing could hold us together😢
P.S. So very difficult with no contact especially on Holidays😢
Yes, it's definitely hard, especially when young relatives are involved that you'd like to see. : - ( But over time my ex and I who both had toxic parents found a lot of joy in quiet Christmases without our parents but full of our own traditions, and FriendsGivings can be FUN. : - ) The legacy of my mother's narc abuse makes birthdays a hot mess of emotions for me even now despite not seeing her for decades so I finally learned to do fun and loving things by myself then celebrate with others in the following days. Birthday Week = MORE celebrations which is a bonus. ; - D I also really appreciate the videos Dr. Ramani has released about Mother's Day.
I find holidays so much easier now that I'm clear that it doesn't say anything negative about ME that I went no contact with my family. I leave the judgment about that to those who've had the unearned privilege of not knowing why it's sometimes the totally right decision.
😢. Yes, I know. As time goes by it does get easier. Love yourself. Give yourself permission to have peace. Being around a narcissist during the holidays or special events is like a horror show and you are the one being scapegoated on and dismissed. Your soul deserves peace of mind not drama and chaos.
Right on. You share your story on your time frame , and no one else’s- awesome words of wisdom 🙏
I've realised that grey rocking can be damaging for others than the intended "traget". As.a child I experienced a variety of narcissistic behaviour and different responses to that. When grey rocking spills over towards a child from an important grownup, it's like being constantly rejected in a very cold and confusing way. It can be very scary.
...and of course, when someone is going non contact towards someone close to the child it can also be damaging. Even more so when the child is put on the spot and with the demand to go no contact with an adult they are dependent on and then when it's not possible also being actively being placed in no contact.
I'm aware it can be necessary to go no contact. But I think everyone needs to be aware of the children. Maybe something can be done to make it easier on the child. If not the grown up should at least be aware.
@@BodilWandtit's worse for the child to see people fighting it's better that people do not interact with each other and deal with the child separately
Still fascinated by this personality. Father, Brother, Partner. It is a gig.
I tried essentially what is grey rocking/yellow rocking and having to frankly put on an act in the end absolutely drained me and didnt stop the abuse anyway. I also dont like this message of tip-toeing around the narc and walking on eggshells in the way that you suggest what to tell them other than the simple truth so they dont lash out. It sounds so cowardly, disempowering and almost as if we have no choice but to baby them. I call bs. I'm in the process of leaving a 3+ year narc relationship. Once I managed to move out and get my own place I eventually grew the strength to go no-contact and I've never felt clearer, stronger and more confident in my self-trust to follow through with my decision despite still having hard moments when he wont stop contacting me despite being blocked. I feel its important to take them off this pedestal we're allowing them. Abuse is hard and damaging! But they're not some magical being, at the end of the day no matter how abusive they are they're just a man/woman. I think the focus should be on remembering your own power. Cut them off as soon as you possibly can, leave zero space for excuses, stop complaining and take control of your life. Check yourself when you catch yourself talking about them or ruminating on them once you've left, its over focus on the future and enjoy the present.
Oh yes they came after me with my own daughter as a weapon, and thks for your words on being kind to myself, somedays I can get very very sad. I wait for your podcast every thursday because is like therapy and more so a voice of reason and congruence, sanity. Thank you so much.
It will be fine if Going no contact works in India. The moment i went no contact, my wife started making calls to my parents, grandpa, my friends and even company HR.
When i said about living separately, she brought ppl into picture like my grandpa and other relatives so that i would listen to them.
She convinces them that she was wrong all the time and needs another chance so people think she completely changed and I'm the one who's stubborn and not giving her a chance.
You don’t have to be in India for them to be like that. It’s the same thing in Japan, Europe, the USA, and anywhere coercive-controlling narcissists are🧌
They do do that type of harrassment in more traditional societies (calling all the relatives and their dog to do the bidding for them). I suggest you find a way out much more subtly, in steps: like finding what motivates the narc, let's say money, just invent some business related idea away from her or something like that. 😉 Outsmart the bully...
It seems you have gotten to the point you have had enough. That is ok and good. I have found for myself that narcissists begin to sabotage relationships with family and friends from day 1 of the relationship. She has set you, your job, and family up to cause division and chaos. To get attention and cause fractured relationships in the hopes they will accept her stories and not yours. Her ultimate goal is for your family to believe her lies and eventually abandon you. I hope your family has removed themselves from the drama she is causing, and know what type of person she is, and has not caused any problems between you and your family.
Your intersectionality might be putting so much shame on you. I hope you're doing ok. Find a safe space! You need safe people in your life. Even if it's just a therapist or only one friend who understands narcissistic abuse. ❤ hope this helps
@@phillipgray9327 two weeks ago i went no contact for a whole week and she started creating WhatsApp groups with my relatives, parents and myself questioning my whereabouts.
Now I'm thinking about legally moving this. So that she shouldn't torture me if i move out of the house permanently.
Thank you for your words. ♥️
The Carmen story about the grandfather, the dad can hurt the children too, it happened with my children from my evil narcissist mother. I wish I never let my kids have any contact with her.
Bless you for this segment
It has been a painful and debilitating 5 years with my soon to be x
The no contact has been so challenging
50:21 When these relationships fade, one gets the space to flourish. Yes!
You're awesome, Dra. Romani. Love to watch and hear your voice. Give so much power to us. I'm going to be honest, sometimes we get bad to hear it, but at the same time, it is a relief to know that is not your fault. I'm still struggling to leave the trauma bound and that feeling of "what if I'm wrong" but I know that is just a phase and soon will be over. Thanks, Dra. for saving and giving us guidance. Cheers and love from Brazil.
There's a really good point made in this video about how you could care for an old sick person and end up with nothing anyway... in a case like that you would have been better off to not get involved and enjoy your life without dedicating it to some needy person who couldn't care less about your well-being.
My son tried to hug me at a relative's funeral and I froze and then I officially was able to go no contact with no further conversation. HE knew then that I was no longer in to him at all.
Thank you.!! Oh my goodness, this was such a great episode. The topic is so nuanced and important that I'm so glad you didn't do what most educated folks do and generalize or only answer to the detailed specifics of a question. You went deep, clearly and carefully laying out the different sides and factors that impact each type of situation. Which means that everyone can learn a ton from and take away important things that apply to their or their friends situations on each answer. I will relisten many times and share to lots of folks. Can't wait for more of these. Thank you again for all your hard work in this area.
Especially gonna use the language for responding to, "you haven't spoken to them in five years, what's up with that?" just what I needed, cuz I never know how to respond and end up saying too much or not enough and defending myself. Yours was perfect!
Dr. Ramani, I love these new series. They are extremely informative. Thank you, thank you.
Thanks for listening
Thank you for the clarity on such a difficult decision. One thing that might be worth exploring on your channel is what do healthy conflicts look like? What role does conflict play in a healthy relationship and how can we navigate these after surviving toxic relationships.
that's stuff you should talk over with a therapist..Dr Ramani cant do EVERYTHING, you have to do your part
I no contact to make my point against emotional abuse. Dr. Ramani it's about my healing but also to make a strong point against marital abuse
This question and answer episode was great. It was very healing for me. Both my parents were narcissists and so are my siblings. I don’t want to act like I’m a saint because I’m not but listening to this episode has helped me come to terms with some of the complicated feelings I’ve felt about my family over the years.
My mom passed away 30 years ago and my dad remarried. This episode has helped me resolve some of the complex emotions I’ve felt about my mom, dad and siblings over the years. Thank you❤
What were they doing to you?
I went no contact with my ex after trying it for many many times. We have a son and fortunately he lives in another country. So I hold my ground and not let my mother give me any messages from him. He tried first. My mom was keeping in touch with him for my son. She kept insisting that he has rights for his son. At that point my ex and my son never met. I think he seriously understood the situation that he is never going to meet his son in ok circumstances if he keeps violating my boundaries. Then luckily there was the Covid and finally when my son was 5 we met on a holiday. It was horrible and after one week in small island with him I was depressed and desperate although we were in “good terms”, meaning I was playing along. He played all his games and tried all the tricks. I was happy to leave. Now I’m not embarrassed to say that I’m happy that his health is declining and he cannot keep contact that much. I’m just sorry for my son that he doesn’t have a father..but hopefully one day he will understand why.
It’s incredible because recently I found out that I’ve been part of this group that turned out to be a cult. I cut all contacts with them. Then I realized that my boss is incredibly controlling, manipulative and coercive. I’ve known this for years but i thought I am one that can handle it. But now I see that it’s exhausting, he is tricking me with all sorts of stuff and I do things I don’t want to . I need to leave as soon as I can!!
How? WITH PUTE UNADULTERATED JOY! 7 years, 6 months, and 23 days for me. ❤
Thank you so much for what you do xx
Thank you, Dr. Ramani for all the work you’ve done, for all the work you do ❤🙏
To have no contact with my mother is finally the solution. But it has not been the total no contact, because my father is her advocat and I communicate with him. They also „stole“ my daughter (adult). However, if I even think that I should talk with my mother - no question about meeting her - I must take a 4 hours nap, I get so tired even about the idea. 😢 I simply cannot any more. I am done with her. (I am 58, so about 50 years I‘ve standed being her doormat, with the help of other relatives. I cannot any more. I have my job and other challenges to handle. Maybe I could even have a life?
What about a 4 year NC break? Same thing? 2 years toxic, 4 year NC, and then 2 years again. Recently NC again.
11:00-13:00 really resonated with me.. i was point blank, ignoring my narc ex, and she was salty for days.. we have a dog business together and so we have to communicate about the days we take to go away. I was waiting and waiting for her dates and couldn't get any. I told her my dates and told her when she figures out her dates. Let me know.. she turns around and gives me dates that take over my entire set of dates( so that means i dont get to go where i was going). i exploded, and then her disrespectful partner came into my space and interrupted the convo we were having. I cudn take it anymore and exploded and told my 3x how abusive she still is and how i can not take the disrespect anymore.. they appeared cool.. its funny how ur the cool person and they just manipulate u to act out and then play like they did ntn wrong.. now my blood pressure is still up, and the wicked headache i got from lasnite has not left. Ive called her the devil because God knows.. It's how i feel. People when you escape RUN AND NEVER LOOK BACK.
Yellow Rock is brilliant for situations at work ❤
What a wonderful informative and helpful video, Dr. Ramani ! Thank you❤
Yellow rock seems easier for the longterm... maybe grey when they are having a meaner than usual streak?
I be tried gray rocking and plus yellow rocking. Fire walling too. I give up. I decided to go completely no contact by blocking them on social media and phone. Emails etc. No kids are involved.
What a great video!!! I really, really needed to hear the parts about having to break no contact due to life circumstances (I got sick). It is relieving to hear about a disagreeing perspective about narcissistic relationships being an addiction for the victim- I feel a bit better about how there are differences in the healing process, and it’s almost more freeing. As far as managing decisions about my own kids seeing narc family members, I’ll share my own current perspective for my own choices just to add ideas for anyone struggling with those choices. I do not see adults as being entitled to relationships with children just because of some sort of family tie (blood, adopted family tree, etc), BUT I do see children as being entitled to relationships with/knowledge about the family if it can be done safely. Due to how harmful the entire family system is, and I have had the opportunity to see my parents as grandparents though I do not yet have children, where I am at right now is that I will keep my own kids and I no contact while they are minors and do my utmost to give them tools to deal with their behavior if they decide to be in contact as adults. It SUCKS that my kids will have to pay the price for the true nastiness of my own family, but I do believe they would be paying a much greater price by being exposed to them when so vulnerable and young. Really the bonds between my narc family are so toxic that there is little positivity and little connection between anyone, and that’s just heartbreaking. It’s definitely okay to make up your own solution that you’re willing to do- as Dr. Ramani says- that isn’t just either or. In my case, to restate, I want to protect my kids while they’re young and developing, but I want to empower them to make choices (and deal with the fallout of those choices) for themselves as they get older, even if those are choices I don’t like.
I told my narssist father that I am not going to talk to you again. You and mum destroyed me.
He answered very calm and chill : ok if it is good for you.
And then gave me the silent treatment
How are you now? Have you maintained no contact?
I thankfully went no contact with a narcissistic alcoholic relationship I drug myself thru for 3yrs. I cought a glimpse of him once in a store and I hid till he left. Recently, after over 2 yrs of NC, my phone rang with an unknown number. When I answered a voice tried to get me to guess who. I declined the game, he told me it was him. I said, "No thank you." And hung up. He proceeded to text me about how he was calling to make amends. AA?! When I briefly explained that I was fine without him and have no desire to have anything to do with him he snapped. Same old asshole. I carefully blocked him with no response. I still have anxiety about seeing him. I don't doubt I will till I move away.
Best video ever! Thank you so much 🙏 I feel so supported.
Sometimes you have children,they may need you both,then you have to communicate
OMG This was a perfect video for me to see !!! Cause I’m really gonna try to go no contact
But after hearing you in this video,
I might go low contact … if he texts me I might text back one or two words ( because I get texts like this: “ I have Covid nice knowing you “ and His dog will have a horrible thing happen or is sick !!! )
I learned a lot of other things listening to this video. Thank you very much. It was very helpful.
I will definitely keep it in my videos to watch as needed …like some medications, cause it kinda is 😃
Last year I was told by a police officer that my thoughts were very black and white. I thought that was such a strange comment, the police officer just didn't want to hear my story about what we had experienced with the person in question and kept putting me down. To this day, I still don't feel good about that because I give people a lot of chances, but enough is enough. So in this specific case I had gone no contact and the toxic person called the police and made a fake story about something that bothered her which wasn't even true and despite the evidence that was there the officer manipulated me and defended this toxic woman. Till today I still don't understand this. The highlight was that the officer left me with the words: "and you are going to keep quiet to that person!" I thought: "huh, I just kept quiet to her and then you told me that this made me a black and white thinker in your eyes???" It was crazy making. I thought a thousand times, what a crazy world! And unfortunately, there are a lot of toxic people in this world. Awareness is one thing, but this kind of abuse continues to happen worldwide. 😢 There is a certain fear in me of still encountering with toxic people and yet I still find myself giving myself to people again. I have often been called too naive, too gullible, too sensitive and too well-behaved. I keep thinking, yes, that's me, and what's wrong with that? It remains strange to me that these are exactly things that are not okay for them?
This is great. Thank you.
Very beautiful explanations. Helps a lot ❤. Hugs 🤗
So so nice. Thank you Dr. R
Thanks:) i have recently watched dozens of videos and helped me a lot ..
We absolutely appreciate you
Im in no contact and you are 100% true. I have seen it all.
Excellent discussion
My parents abused me physically and verbally at the age of 27. I tried to make it work with them but I was totally ruined. So I left and gone no contact. Dr Ramani is it OK? am I a bad person that I never want to have that family anymore and I don't wanna see them again? I am better without them.
Oh my gosh yes you are better without them. You are taking care and loving yourself. Don't put your parents or society needs before your own. If your parents are toxic, mean, and hateful by all means and yes going no contact is the best way for you to live your life. It is mentally healthy for you to do so. Please don't get caught up in the trap of feeling guilt and shame for maintaining no contact as this is a road of destruction and you could possibly break your no contact out of guilt and feeling lonely. Love yourself first and foremost and have peace of mind. Seriously, that is the only thing that matters. When you have had enough you have had enough and you will go to any means possible to have peace and avoid drama and conflict. Please don't live in fear of a smear campaign, but live your life in peace and freedom. Seriously, it doesn't matter what other people think. Remember, if it is not you it would be someone else.
A place to avenge pain, we see the narcissist with very bizarre thoughts, of practicing neglect and discarding (punishment) and truly believe they will be financially rewarded for it.
We dont hear doctor phil, chase hughes, doctor ramani, discussing.
The doctor is correct I went through it for nine months
listen to what she says!!!
My narcissist girlfriend actually slapped me in the face and that was that I went no contact and she imploded. However she did secretly talk to one of my sleazy friends that she knows is sleazy and try to get stuff to throw in my face
Please don’t let a single person dictate how you feel in this world nobody has that power
It’s easy. Block and be blessed. 🤷🏻♀️😄
Thank you Dr. Ramani for all your knowledge... I started my healing journey from my N mother hearing your poscasts!!! Thank you so much !!!❤
Thank you Dr Ramani.
So good teaching and information. It is so helpful. Thank you
Dr. Ramani, you look fabulous! Thank you for all your advice too!
Grounding is what I am asking for, and the grounding I need is light, i am willing to compromise so much on what is needed for grounding
The amount of help and support and sense we get from your videos like yours is unbelivable.
I wanted to drop the Narcissism topic this year after a full on 2023, but it seems its not time yet.
Thanks for your compassion and love and clarity! Happy New Year to everybody and you, doctor!
36:36 "It's difficult to forgive someone who again and again and again violates your trust."
Amen!
You look beautiful Dr. Ramani🌷 Ty for all your work🌻
Does anyone else feel like narcissists have disdain or outright hatred for smart, intelligent people be they empathic or scholastic?
Dr Ramani - this is the best information I’ve come across regarding no/low contact. Clearly explained & so helpful to those navigating life after or with a narcissist. Knowing it’s for our healing and growth not to punish is important.
I have gone no contact for about 24 weeks now. I am now being stalked in public places. Ex narc is showing up at places I am at, sitting in her vehicle watching me. My question is…what if we have mutual friends/some of my family is friends with her. I feel that this is still a gateway to me. Shall I keep the relationships that still want to be friends with her? Thanks in advance and thank you, Dr. Ramani for these videos and podcasts.
I feel like the “sharpness” of the no contact depends on how the person is dealing with you. I just had to take a very swift and ruthless approach to a “friend” who basically set me up for a shark (read that “narc”) attack.
I won’t go into detail but when I look back on the experience, it was a classic narc playbook moment where the person displayed just about every trick in the book during the exchange (mirroring, flattery, then projection, arguing, rage when I didn’t AGREE with them, asking question like “what is the thing you most hate about yourself” and then to top it off, they lobbed a couple of “screw your boundaries” moves at the end of our exchange.
Having my new arsenal of knowledge concerning HOW narcissistic tendencies present themselves, I immediately recognized it when it was coming at me. At one point, I was wondering if my ex had SENT him to screw with my head. It was THAT ridiculous.
I spent 28 years trying to survive in a narcissistic relationship without initially understanding WHAT the heck I was dealing with. I was not about to allow it to go prancing through my space again after all I had been through.
I cut that person completely OFF and out, no discussion, no warning (other than what I had clearly statement in our conversation, that HE chose to disregard ) and no second chance.
No regrets either. I don’t need that energy in my space. Been no contact since October of last year and plan on keeping it that way. It took me over a week to recover from the attack. Going NO CONTACT immediately with this person helped me to pull myself back in line and emotionally stabilize. I was in a really good space emotionally before the attack presented itself and I was very much SET UP for it by this person. I was furious that he even took it there and he definitely assumed that the length of our former friendship gave him “rights” to behave in the manner that he did. NOT!!
Now that I have SEEN it coming out of him, I cannot UNsee it. I activated “No contact” and we are DONE.
Thank you so much for saying, that is not a fail zu get hovered, instead it can be seen as muscle building. That was very helpful 🙏
Dr. Ramani, Thank you for your wealth of information & articulate way of explaining how to navigate through all of this! You have helped me so much and my life is better because of your help! Thank you so very much! You are amazing!
This was so awesome. My 57 yr. Old son is my narciss who I went no contact with 4 months ago. He tried to wear me out over the last 40 years or so and I am just catching on to NPD.
Brilliant podcast
Thank you DrRamini
I had my first yellow rock telephone call with my Narcissistic Mother & i was able to not react to the usual baiting that always occurs when i receive a call from her
It felt so empowering and will hopefully be able to continue to not react to any more future baiting
So appreciate your guidance and expertise re Narcissistic individuals