One thing that Drake's father mentioned was that Peck managed to fool Drake's mother that he (Peck) was a safe person. When I heard this, as a person who has been in an abusive relationship, it sounded like Drake's father acknowledged that Peck was the abuser and everyone in this situation was a victim to Peck. The father was so empathetic towards his ex and son. There was no blame laid at her door and I am saddened to hear that some members of the public have decided this was her fault.
yes absolutely. it wasn't their fault they couldn't see it. a tiny bit of responsibility is on his mother for not listening to her ex's warnings, but it isn't her fault drake was abused. she was primed to see him as unreasonable and peck should have been a safe man.
Agreed. In my experience, it's so much easier for people to overlook a father putting a child in danger or being negligent of the child than a mother doing the same. Absent fathers are so much more prevalent in English-speaking popular media, especially fiction, than absent mothers are unless the mother is dead. People don't outright say it, but there's this implication that "well I can understand how a father could overlook this, because they're all inattentive and uncaring, but all mothers are eagle-eyed and shrewd and would notice any issue immediately". This is a huge stick with which to beat both of the sexes in question, and the worst thing is that it's self-perpetuating. The more you tell men they'll never be as good at parenting as women, the quicker some men will give up and the less some will even try in the first place, and the more you tell women they're all wonder-mothers, the more often an understandable human mistake makes a good mother feel like an awful, uncaring failure as a parent. Neither of these things helps a person become a better parent. Just another way the value of diversity in storytelling actually makes for a better society overall.
@@DontTrackMe you see this in cases where there are family annihilators too. If the mother does it the rage against her is completely unhinged but when a man does it there's often completely disgusting empathetic comments. "Oh he had to do it because he couldn't live with the shame!" "Oh men are like that but women are supposed to live their children unconditionally!" Just really cold really horrendous stuff.
I think Matt and Kat missed the point of the show completely. It wasn’t to show the cycle of abuse but Nickelodeon did kids dirty. Which is why people are on Drake Bell side. Even though it’s completely not okay for him to continue the cycle of abuse. Plus, how he is going after his victims now. However, kinda disappointed that they are a little over looking how terrible Brian Peck and making Drake Bell seem way worse. They are both shitty people.
@@MadameFutureSomethingthat’s essentially what Matt & Kat said, they said the producers wanted it to have a clear-cut good people/bad people dichotomy (Nickelodeon & brian = bad guys, adult child stars = good guys) rather than a nuanced perspective showing the cycle of abuse & supporting victims. Maybe you just misunderstood, or zoned out at that part?
re: 12-year-olds being perved on by adults, when my kid was that age, men would come up to us in public and tell me how beautiful she was, especially her eyes, and when I shut them down and say, "She's 12," they would tell me I should be flattered and even argue about it! There are some really creepy men out there and they lack self-awareness of how much they suck.
I bet they thought that as long as they didn't mention her body they were in the clear. But what mattered is how the comment made the other person feel, not what the comment was about.
Abuse doesn't ameliorate or cleanse you of abuse you have perpetrated. The cycle of abuse is very real, however, one can hold empathy for someone and likewise extend that empathy to the people said person has hurt. Prior abuse can provide an explanation for actions but not an excuse for them.
Yep. And he makes it so much harder to have empathy for by refusing to take accountability and trying to rewrite history?? If he could just own it and admit to all his crimes, he would be MORE respected and it would also further support survivors coming forward. It's all so counterproductive on his part and shows that this is not about *victims* to him it's just about his own ego.
@@judysm95But according to the public court docs, most of the accusations against him were disproven during the trial. He found out her age and blocked her number. He pled guilty to child endangerment and served his punishment. The New York Times article about this in 2021 seemed to be the primary reason the public believed he was a sex offender, and last month they issued a retraction because it turns out he was never required to register as a sex offender.
@JNDReacts no they didnt show this. He knew her age for years. They literally discussed the timeline in this video. Like you are emulating the same vibes of the letters defending Brian peck to defend Drake.
@@stephbevis3446 How am I emulating those vibes? I never said he definitely didn’t do it, or he did it but it was a mistake and he’s sorry, or whatever bullshit those letters said. I was just saying what I’ve read about the public court case, and the fact that The New York Times had to issue a retraction.
Tell her if she goes by that logic then Brian Peck would also be absoveld too because he was probably abused as well. All this is abuse denial, make her realize how stupid it is.
@@ambiguoussarcasm for a lot of people is not even logic is they believe what Drake said/claimed in the documentary he said that he only pled guilty to texting the girl. He claims in the documentary that as soon as he knew her age, he stopped talking to her, but I think he said that because he knows that a lot of people didn’t actually watch his court sentencing, and would just take his words at face value. (I accidentally did a lot of people on TikTok seem to be saying stuff that makes it seem like they just believe what he said)
@@ambiguoussarcasm but I think this is again because of what Matt mentioned they didn’t have any context or anyone to clarify that usually in cases like this, they only plead guilty to the lesser crimes, because after a long time is hard to prove the more severe ones without a lot of evidence. Without that clarification, he was allowed to manipulate it to his advantage and make it seem like the media genuinely made him look bad.
I would love to see you cover THORN and Ashton. I'm a sex worker and tbh, most of us have been skeeved out by it since the beginning. Very rarely are anti-trafficking groups doing the work they allege, and I'd love to see someone with your platform talk about it.
ive been reading stories about child influencers and youtube babies. it's crazy. We think of that almost as this "new" phenomenon, like "whats going to happen to those kids" but like, its the same story as Judy Garland and other early child celebrities. forcing kids to be the breadwinner for their families is a dynamic that will always hurt the child and it's a cycle that has repeated since the beginning
I genuinely don’t get why the argument of “they seduced them, they were tempting them!” Is ever used in these cases because like a) it’s gross but b) it literally doesn’t matter?? Like even if that was true the onus is still on the adult in that scenario to shut that down, even if that were true there’s still zero consent possible with that type of power dynamic and with the fact that one is a minor, and it’s still a crime??? It’s really not an argument in anyone’s defence and makes me so angry
Yes! If an adult can't even control their urges... How can they be trusted to make any other kind of decision in life?! Like, just don't SA a minor?!?! It's as simple as that?
Similarly, defending a criminal by stating they were such a good friend to you, or even anyone they considered a friend. How is that relevant, of course, if the abuse didn't happen to you or around you, it's hard to imagine a person be capable of such things, but that disbelief doesn't hold any water
@@BlueCyann I agree that it’s not true here, and it’s important to say that, this was specifically about people using that as an argument at all because like I said it’s a crime either way so it’s just a bad argument
dude same, i was twenty when i started dating my 18 yr old ex and i wanted to make sure she wasnt in high school because i thought that would be way too weird and waited for her send me a pic of her w her diploma. like its not hard
Only *30%* of abuse victims grow up to be abusers. I feel bad for Drake Bell, but this doesn't absolve him of guilt. I just hope that more abuse victims start seeing therapists. 🙏🏾💔
holy GOD that is a far, far, farrrrr larger percentage than I thought. do you have some source for this? trauma is my autistic special interest and maybe my bar for abuse is just too high but i haven't observed that in the wild through my voracious anecdote gathering lol? are we only talking about CSA? but even then... that's way too high surely?!
ok i googled it quickly and it seems to be that among men, it's that about a third of ABUSERS were themselves ABUSED. as in 2/3 of abusers weren't even abused themselves. that could be true and you could still have 99% of victims never be abusers. so for example, imagine you have a town full of people and 100 adults, let's call that group P for perps, abuse 100 kids, let's call them group V for victims. the stats say that 30 of group P were abused as kids. but you could still have only 1 of group V ever do something later... but in "round 2" we will have more people joining group P out of nowhere, that's why we don't run out of group P (or of group V, since group P creates group V). it's more confusing when you try to think of it all at the same time instead of in cycles.
@velaethia6 A lot of innocent people plea guilty. I am not saying Drake Bell is innocent but I am tired of comments like yours. Yall act like just because someone was found not guilty means they are innocent. Just because someone plea guilty it means they did it. Please think deeper.
"sexual offenders are rehabilitated in every industry! That's what the Metoo movement was about. But the fixation on Hollywood and Celebrity itself drives people to believe Hollywood is uniquely capable of these things, but they're just getting the attention because their celebrates." -Kattenbarge
what shocks me about all those letters is that so many adults think that a child even can be seductive in any capacity!! wtf is wrong with these people? they act like it would be hard to not engage with a minor if they „pressured“ you to, while every normal person would be grossed out by even the thought of it. there seem to be much more creeps in this indzstry than I realized….
Literally. I would be disgusted and mortified if a minor kid came onto me. I don’t even know why anybody fantasized about jt or wants it to happen. Adults are responsible for ensuring that they aren’t doing anything romantic or sexual or grooming when it comes to minors and even young adults. Ew. 🤢
Exactly my thoughts! Like, if a 12 year old boy had any form of interest in me, I wouldn't even need to think for a millisecond about my reaction. I mean honestly, what adult is tempted by that!? Reminds me of Lolita and what the world made of the book, acting as if Lolita was the seductress even though she was kidnapped and so much worse. I will never understand the thoughts of these people, truly...
Matt, once again you’ve outdone yourself. You and Kat raised amazing points, particularly in the last segment regarding Drake’s online behavior and leveraging the entire Internet against someone else… which contradicts exactly what he was trying to explain in the documentary. I wish Drake lots of healing. But like you said, his victim will never have “her documentary.”
Are you kidding me? His quote on quote victim had family friends come forward that know her personally calling out on her bs. There was proof that she was lying about what she was trying to accuse him of, legitimate proof, and you guys still go along with he is guilty? I really do not understand the mentality behind that mask crowd that believes he's still guilty to this day😅😅
Omg thank you for making this!!! I’m tired of the narrative that victims can’t also be abusers. Abuse doesn’t teach you to be a good person, which is basically the underlying message of this narrative. I don’t know Brian Peck’s life, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he also was abused because it’s not uncommon for abusers to once have been victims themselves. That doesn’t mean I suddenly think it’s ok he sexually abused children. I wish people would realize people are not two dimensional.
I don't think that Brian Peck was SA'ing people because he's repeating a pattern, I had an abuser very similar in personality to Brian and I just think they were very dark, sick evil people, my abuser had a good family life, great parents and support and love and I've asked so many times, his friends, family... if he ever was hurt in some way or abused and there's no evidence that my abuser was abused, I dunno... some of the people who are abused become abusers, especially if they don't seek help but Brian's crimes... He was a fan of Gacy, I just don't think it was the cycle of abuse in his case.
Very impressed at how sensitively the issue of child abuse was handled here. Thank you so much for all your care and for all the support & compassion shown for victims throughout this episode. I hope everyone listens to the very end to hear the victim impact statement. It is heart wrenching but also so self possessed. ❤
Something you guys spend a lot of time focusing on is the way victims are characterized in court and how repetitive it seems to be -- there's a name for it!! It's the "nuts and sl*ts defense," and there have been petitions and other movements to ban its use.
I will never understand how people can live with themselves after writing those character reference letters, especially when they KNOW. Like, how do you look yourself in the mirror after that? How do you sleep at night??
I will never defend their decision to write those letters, and I would never have done it were I in their position, but I think there's some context missing when we think about this. Like, its not as if they knew the victim was Drake beforehand, and Drake publicly announced that he was brutally SA'd by Brian, and THEN they went and wrote letters defending Brian. No.. what happened was the victim was anonymous and Brian went to people he had worked with closely for years and told them a manipulative sob story about how he was taken advantage of by a young pervy tramp boywhore who lied about his age to Brian, and now has turned it around against him, and that's why he had to admit guilt because they had him cornered, blah blah blah. So - does this absolve those letter writers? Absolutely not. The fact remains that *they didn't hear the other side, and they believed the accused by default instead of at least giving the victim the benefit of the doubt.* That's bad no matter how you look at it. It's just not quite the same though as the context that some people are assuming when they're trying to wrap their head around how in the world so many people could stoop to writing letters in defense of a predator. Predators manipulation goes beyond their victims.
I think it’s more about money, he helped make them a lot of money. They were willing to overlook or justify what he did so they could keep making money. It’s disgusting
Peck is almost cartoonishly monstrous. He was corresponding with John Wayne Gacy as a pen pal before his execution and had framed letters from the serial child killer displayed in his house.
something really upsetting about this (aside from yknow, all of it) is how drake's queerness as a kid was viewed as self evidently proof that he asked for it. it's wild because so often homophobes claim gay people are that way because of abuse, when in fact queer kids are singled out and targeted by abusers deliberately because they are less likely to be believed and given care.
Just started the video and wanted to say I so appreciate you saying "child sexual abuse" out loud. I know a lot of creators rely on RUclips for income and censor their language to navigate around certain guidelines, but I think using quirky terms to describe certain issues can really detract from the weight of these conversations. It's refreshing to hear someone not shy away from it.
Bell was such a large part of this documentary’s narrative that it likely wouldn’t have been made (or at least would have gotten a lot less attention) if he didn’t agree to do it. And he definitely wouldn’t have agreed be interviewed it if they didn’t absolve him of his crimes in some way.
QOS was about 15 year old drakes experience as a child actor, yes they may have been treading carefully but that was because they wanted to support drake in going public. He said in an interview that it was a 2 day interview & he didn’t want to go back the 2nd day (plus more memories are coming back ever time he talks with people about that time), he has discussed other things in several interviews since QOS
Meanwhile Alan Thicke had a “relationship” with an underage Kristy Swanson (17 at the time) and he was 40 YEARS OLD. They were engaged when she was 19 but never married.
Good. That’s disgusting. Even if she was 18, your brain isn’t fully developed at that age so there’s a power imbalance. Why is it so hard to date people your own age? Smh
Melissa also described the abuse she received as "the worst abuse you can imagine" which is the same or very similar to how Drake describes the abuse he received. I don't think that it was intentional on Drake's part in the documentary but it really jumped out at me as a parallel. Highlighting the cycle of abuse again.
It is a very common phrase that is used to avoid giving details, or it could also be that Drake told her everything that way, there are a thousand truths
It is a very common phrase that is used to avoid giving details, or it could also be that Drake told her everything that way, there are a thousand truths
@@ruth.zarita_That's fair that theres a lot of possibilities. I'm not trying to conspiracy theorize so my apologies if that's the impression my comment gave. I was trying more to draw a parallel between their experiences and highlight the cycle of abuse but I do see that isn't clear in my comment. I edited the comment for clarity.
She also mentioned that he was an alcoholic, not to water down what happened to her…. But it’s very possible he doesn’t remember any of what he did because he was self medicating and drinking. Having dealt with addicts & alcoholics myself, they really don’t know what they’ve done to others. Makes me wonder if she ever knew he was dealing with this. His wife knows but I wonder if he ever told his other partners. He finally got the therapy he needed back then and has acknowledged in multiple interviews how he’s hurt many people. I definitely think Drake deserves some grace
Weren’t a lot of her claims proven to be false during the trial? Like it was proven that he was never alone with her during the times that she claimed he was? And I’m not talking a lack of evidence, but actual evidence that disproved what she was saying?
Thank you for calling out the social misogyny and victim-blaming of finding a woman (especially a mother) to blame. Instead of placing the blame fully on predators and predatory systems that take advantage of victims and their families. I also wonder where the interview with Drake’s mom was. Why doesn’t she have a chance to explain how she was also victimized by Peck and the entertainment industry (gaining trust, taking advantage of an overwhelmed single mother, etc.)
Friendly PSA (but mostly a short comment to boost the video): Documentaries don't have to be accurate, they have to keep you watching. Thank you for your time!
No. A documentary is supposed to document (shocker) something. The more truthful, the better. I’m waiting for the documentary about key queer influencers who are exercising the art of ignorance aka radio silence about the medical scandal surrounding medically affirming care for minors, despite knowing about the health implications and side effects with minimal potential improvement, the sterilization the blockers cause in most cases at an age hardly anyone can give informed consent not to mention someone suffering additional distress from comorbidities and the social transition.
@@W-I463 it‘s literally in the name -> documentary from latin _documentum_ - documentation. _official papers, or written material that provides proof of something_ but you do you. Any documentary that is untruthful or intentionally caters to a narrative is an opinion piece.
@@MFRUclips683 Lots of documentaries present a false narrative as true, I've seen documentaries that deny climate change and the moon landing for example, and there's a lot of celebrity documentaries meant to either hate on or magnify a celebrity. Etymology doesn't matter when we're describing facts. Fact is, documentaries don't necessarily present the truth, even if they're trying to make the audience believe they do. They absolutely have a narrative and an agenda, whether it's for good or not.
@21:03 As an abuse survivor, there's a big difference between who "let" this happen, and who " made" this happen. Therapy helps the victim with a lot of that. If I could prescribe therapy to the masses, I would.
I was holding off on fully forming my opinions until the 5th episode aired and it left an even worse taste in mouth that they still didn’t address the allegations against Drake and just gave him a platform to talk to about his music 🙃 i’m assuming that not pushing him to comment on that was the ‘price to pay’ to get him to speak on the abuse he experienced but to me that ends up diluting/ruining the series’ message if they’re willing to do that. Just as you both say, the series itself ends up as part of the cycle because of this choice and it’s super disappointing. Thanks to you and Kat for this discussion! i’m happy to see more people push back on this aspect of the series.
When I first watched Quiet on Set, I thought it was very engaging too, but I kept hearing some pretty sharp audio cuts that gave me the impression that the people being interviewed were having their words cut up and pieced back together to build the narrative the show was trying to tell. Obviously, cuts are going to need to be made, since they can't show the full interview and pauses are often cut out for the sake of time, but I kept hearing their words cut off in weird places and that was one of the big things that made me start to feel like I wasn't getting the full story.
I noticed the same thing too! It was done so many times that it became suspicious after a certain point. I understand making cuts to make the documentary shorter and more concise, but they were leaving entire portions of people’s stories out of the documentary. I feel like this was especially egregious when it came to the commentary given by the former black child actors and their parents, which was strange.
when Drake and Josh ended and Drake Bell stop being popular in US, he came to Mexico every now and then to keep milking his popularity, he got time in morning shows and got various comercial deals, especially when the case of his abuse was aired after 2021. He was seen in CDMX's bars and restaurants making his life while also having concerts and touring around here. When the accusations and case were being discussed in 2021, a several of mexican fans where telling their stories in the comments, stories about past shows Drake had in Mexico (when he was in his cusp of fame) and invited them to back stage and abused his power, fame and celebrity status. I was not in there and cannot testify about this, i just readed them, but they were basically the same one in different places and people. What Peck and the industry did to him was horrible and deplorable but Drake Bell has grown to be an abuser of minors who gets aways with committing crimes in places like Mexico where he can hide til everything calms down and he can go out again.
It saddens me a bit to see several comments about Kat's voice, seeing as that's not something a person can easily change. If I find someones way of speaking hard to process, then I'd chalk that up to a me problem and move one. Every thought doesn't have to be written down for the world (and the person in question) to see. One thing that could actually be constructive, is to say that her mic has a tendency to peak at times, and it occurs to me that that might be something that can be adjusted in the settings to fit future guests in general.
@@ElizaKate13 I'm American and I noticed it when she started talking. But I put the video on 1.5 speed (they both speak fairly slowly for me) and it was fine. I fixed my own personal issue and thankfully got to hear the really incredible things she had to say.
hearing this made me re-examine portrayals of abuse, especially documentaries. it would be fascinating to hear you make an episode on the shiny happy people docuseries (i think it does a better job balancing the stories of victims and survivors with people who speak with expertise), but no pressure at all.
Matt did an episode about Christian homeschooling which covers a lot of the same themes as shiny happy people, although the podcast doesn't explicitly talk about abuse in homeschool environments. Hearing the guests experiences growing up in Christian homeschooling is still very interesting.
The themes Matt brings are so interesting so keep it up! Kat is an amazing guest every time, so well informed and explains everything greatly I love this podcast so much!
30:09 This sentence from Kat is so obvious but also so profound because these people actually believing that they can spot a predator from miles away is so insane. I can't help but laugh about how they must imagine how a tiger or black panther rampages loudly through the forest yelling "I'm a predator, here I come!" 😂😳
Very grateful to see this added to the conversation. I’ve been waiting for the acknowledgement of his crimes convicted and alleged while also maintaining space that he is also victim and that there is no such thing as a perfect one.
They did release a 5th episode in the last couple days where they interviewed Drake again, but they don't address the abuse he was responsible for. It was almost glaring how absent the topic was from the conversation. Realistically, I understand why they wouldn't bring it up in the doc considering Drake received so much support in response to the first 4 episodes, but I thought it was irresponsible to not even mention the abuse.
Because there was no proof, when you have proof of something you can talk about it but if you don't, it's dangerous because false information is spread all the time I mean look at that girl he was in court with, so much evidence that she was lying on Drake and he had to go through all of that and hear about media articles and videos on RUclips calling him a pedophile, when in fact he was not doing what she claimed happened, it's misinformation that's so dangerous and I'm glad that they don't bring things up that have no actual evidence behind them, because it would be very very very toxic due to the fact that people's brains are so dumb to down nowadays they take what they want and they run with it they don't go by factual evidence anymore
This makes me so sad and angry. A child is abused and he becomes an abuser and benefits from the same thing that his abuser benefitted from. I wouldn't even be surprised if that's what he tells himself makes it okay. That at least now it benefits him. Who knows, it's just so frustrating. Especially because in both cases the perpetrator admitted guilt, it's not like it was inconclusive whether or not sth happened
Mostly this happens by men, because they need to feel that they control everything in their lives, and if they can't, they look for someone that they control. The myth that abuse makes someone wanting to help out others, is the same false logic of people surviving gens'aid makes one a better person. Its a dangerous myth that leads to continuing the cycle of violence.
oh god… thank you for posting this video you are both incredible. I’m ashamed to be one of those that ran with the story once the quiet on set doc came out.. for some reason I immediately just believed that Drake was innocent of everything and fully deserved redemption.. i’m super thankful to have found this video and I’ll be doing more research on my own to have to full story.. i really gotta do that before hand. I hate how easy it is to fall into heard mentality based on the assumption that I’m doing the right thing 😔 ugh
thank you for covering this video. i was reluctant to watch it because it seemed really exploitative to me and the way it had so many people getting so riled up at the wrong people. i was also worried about how they would handle peck, a gay man, being an abuser and when you said the documentarians were really irresponsible with it, it just put me off the documentary completely.
I think the thing with celebrity abusers is it's just a magnification of what happens in "normal" abuse cases because of, as you mentioned, the parasocial aspects of celebrity. But the denial, the victim-blaming, the belief that just because someone was wonderful to you they couldn't possibly have hurt someone else - all those dynamics exist in "regular" abuse cases too. It's a hard topic to cover, but I'm glad y'all did it.
This is so well articulated! As a child SA survivor everything you said rang true- in real life there are no pure heros or true villains, but the closest ones to evil are the perpetrators. It's horrific to see what broader society says in response to allegations of this nature and the victim-blaming occurring is getting really old as they do it EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
1:10:38 THANK YOU for bringing this up! A TV set is a system like any other, especially one that creates capital (much like a lot of religious institutions, see all of the untaxed mega churches). Peck, Schneider, and now even Drake Bell himself were all more beneficial to the money making system at Nickelodeon than protecting abuse victims. And the idea that this is unique to Hollywood while child labor laws fall across the country and children are pushed into factory work again is laughable at best and horrifically conspiratorial at worse. I will say, I found the sensationalizing of Schneider's crimes, both real and speculative, to create a very shallow portrayal of abuse. You're right to call it "righteous moral clarity." It is more entertaining and satisfying for the viewer to root against a cartoon villain's sensationalized actions than to actually attempt to dismantle the systems that perpetuate such abuse. There's been so much talk online speculating about the fetish content Schneider inserted in his shows, and this has even spiraled into conspiracy theories about the child actors on his shows and pressuring them to speak on these conspiracies. We DO know that Schneider sexually harassed his female co-writers and verbally abused tons of staff on his shows, including child actors. These less sensational but very real allegations have not gotten the same traction, and I think it's because of what WE as the public find entertaining vs unacceptable, and what that says about ourselves. We WILL sit down and watch dance moms, watch a grown woman verbally abuse a bunch of children, and find it entertaining. What does that say about us? Where was our righteous moral clarity then? Previous laws protecting child actors were written in their blood and tears, and they meant that the way we consumed entertainment made by children had to change. Shirley Temple could no longer dance in perpetuity for us. The documentary's style of reporting on these issues benefits from the current abusive system. People are harassing former child actors online asking to hear their stories. One would hope that one day in the future, we wouldn't need these docs anymore because we could effectively stop abuse before it happens, or appropriately punish abusers through the legal system. But the public appetite post-doc has been for MORE horror stories. I think the system will have to change in ways that make US uncomfortable. We may not get another dance moms. We might not see as many mommy bloggers on our feed. Shirley Temple stopped dancing but the world kept turning. I hope we can see past our gratuitous appetite for spectacle to actual help these victims and prevent abuse in the future, but my outlook has been bleak seeing how people reacted to all this.
I've been devouring your content over the past few days and I love the show. Just subbed to your Patreon, you deserve all the support for your amazing work!
I served on a jury just recently where they were prosecuting a man for similar crimes to those discussed here. The main evidence in the trial was witness testimony and forensic interviews that had done many years before, but after hearing the victims and their mothers speak it was very clear to me and the whole jury that the defendant was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, even witgout a direct confession. I know that here and in many places like you guys mentioned, that's not often how trials go, but I just wanted to share my experience knowing that I was on a jury where hearing a child's experience when they were brave enough to come forward was enough to soundly convict a predator. Although the defense used similar mother/victim blaming arguments to allege that there was something to gain from lying about these type of crimes, in the end as you point out here, those kinds of arguments don't often hold true when there's someone with clear power and access and a victim who's willing to testify in detail.
I was also lucky that the defendant didn't show up to our court even for the verdict, so the victims weren't made to face him again when giving testimony.
I appreciate the seriousness and nuance you brought to this. Critical thinking is so important on and it's a skill I've been actively working since i realized i was basically raised in a cult.
When I hear this type of letters being written I try to imagine what type of relationship would compel me to do the same. But I am not able to find one. No friends or family members. If I understand that a close person to me has done something like this, I might need to internally process, but no amount of love for that person would make me write a letter in support. If you have done something you are capable of understanding how wrong it is, you need to stand on your "legs" for it and face any and all consequences.
I don't know if it's because I'm just built different brain-wise but if someone really close to me even a family member, I don't care how much I love them, I'll DESPISE them because I am deeply angered by CSA and any love for them I have will be over written with disgust and hatred. *CSA AND ATTEMPTED SA WARNING!!!!!:* Which is what happened with my step-grandpa who I've known all of my life altho I've never seen him as just my grandpa because we hardly ever see him since he works late hours, who I recently learned is apparently a pedophile because he molested a family friend's kid daughter (I don't remember how old she was but she was prepubescent I think) and ppl knew about it but just chose to willfully ignore it bc ig my extended family has a huge problem of covering up or looking the other way towards any type of abuse.) It was just late last year when he acted pretty suspiciously to both me and my parents when he and my grandma were staying over for the holidays and at one point, it was just me and him in the living room, I think was standing at the doorway between the living room and the kitchen, and he was lying down on the bed we set up in the middle of the room because we don't have a guest room or anything, and my grandma and everybody else was in another room. He then looked at me and said something in Spanish I couldn't really understand (we're all Mexican America but I wasn't raised to speak Spanish) but I definitely could tell me what he meant, and patted the spot of the bed right near his body and said to come sit. He wasn't even saying it in a predatory way at all, and usually I have pretty good judgement/instincts about these kind of things, but it made me taken aback. It's then when I told my parents because I thought I might have been just paranoid and they immediately showed concern and suspicion of what he did. Then they told me of what he did to the little girl and my grandma just thinks he didn't do that because she thinks the girl and her parents were mistaken because he would never do that, and that they were just misguided but she doesn't think they're straight up lying. It was right after that that my view of him was permanently changed and I avoid him and distrust him now, and I feel no love for him at all. (Uhhhh sorry for this super long and kinda comment and if this sounds weird and incoherent, I can't really think straight because I'm high 💀)
@@vi0let831 I am sorry that any of this has happened for both you and that girl. Not sure if anything I say will make anything better, so I won't. But I do have a bit of unsolicited advice. Next time you get high open up some dog or cat videos, not something heavy, as this topic would just raise your anxiety 😃.
I'm glad you covered this. I'd aged out of Nickelodeon by the time his show was on the air. The documentary made it sound like he just did some naughty texting. I even googled him right after because I felt bad for the guy, but I didn't find any of this info (admittedly I did not do an extensive deep dive, but it's not in the first few results, especially post-doc). However, I think you can be sympathetic and admit what happened to him was heinous and that his abuser should have been put UNDER the jail, and still admit he's a terrible person. Guilt isn't pie, there's enough for everyone.
This episode would be grateful aided by adding an expert on abuse to describe what we actually know from research and clinical evidence to speak to the finer points here
i really recommend Drake's interview with the 'Man Enough' podcast to anyone who wants to see a nuanced take direct from Drake; it feels quite complementary to this video and i'm glad i watched this for the legal facts to hold together with the interview conversation the main host who conducts the interview was abused himself, and later became an abuser, so has the capacity and experience to navigate the nuance of the discussion, and it felt like watching a really valuable part of his process as Drake voluntarily stepped into an interview that pushes for accountability and vulnerability side and did make some progress within it obviously it's just one conversation, and the host did make reference to the fact that he himself had previously lied about his own actions as an abuser before taking full ownership and changing his behaviour, insinuating that he didn't entirely believe Drake's take on certain things, but it's hands down the best interview i've seen with him given the specific container they were able to create in that environment with that specific interviewer such a rarity
i actually love this podcast matt. it's so difficult to find podcasts where people speak intelligently about this stuff. so much nuance that i think doesn't exist on platforms like tiktok, instagram or even on youtube.
I think that the question “why did they keep Drake at Nick or in the industry if they thought Brian was any kind of threat?” is a great one. 1) Bell stresses that Brian Peck is a master of manipulation. Peck manipulated Drake and his mother into believing that his father’s suspicions were wrong. 2) Pulling your child out of the industry comes with its own set of risks. If a kid does actually enjoy acting and being on set, a parent inhibiting them could be detrimental to the relationship. In addition, child stars of the ‘90s and ‘00s had a habit of emancipation. I imagine that it was a very real fear for her, having a teenage star who already distanced himself from one parent. I also cannot help but believe that Peck would have offered this up as a path for Drake if his mother took his father’s advice. I’m not saying that this fear drove her to make a good decision. However, it definitely would have factored into mine, were I in her position.
Thank you for your commitment to discussing these issues with nuance and emotional maturity ❤ it feels like such an antidote to all the victim blaming and rape myths. It was also very helpful to look at Kat's beautiful shiny hair while processing such challenging topics 😂
This was such an important video. I just watched QOTS last night, and while I thought it was incredibly important and am grateful these people felt safe enough now to speak out now, I did feel there was a concerted effort on the doc's part to not address Drake's own crimes against a child, and the harm he did to her.
It was about 15 yr old drake and Hollywood, not adult drake. Drake stood up back then & that paedophile sent to jail! It was also not the appropriate time when just coming forward to talk about happened to him was hard enough Also if you listen/watch any interview before & after QOS he addresses the attempted endangerment & disseminating harmful information charges, holds his hands up for being reckless & responding to the messages which is why he pled guilty after a 2 year investigation
The exact same people who watched Quiet on Set are responsible for cultivating the exact same environment that still attacks victims when they go after Drake Bell’s victim. It would be almost funny how ironic it is, if it wasn’t so horrifying.
This is such a in-depth discussion and the cycles of abuse, thanks Matt and Kat, I already follow Kat & I subbed to this channel. My heart goes out to the girls & women Drake victimised 1st. I wish them peace & healing, to survive & thrive. And I do wish Drake be honest & truly show remorse. I understand the pain he suffered as a victim of B Peck effected his mentality towards relationships. But his actions were also inexcusable. He’s a lot of work to do to become a decent father, partner & man.
I recommend listening to the luminosity & man enough podcast, these made me realise how bad it got for drake, whilst I don’t condone his behaviours (personally I don’t believe the SA allegations from 2021), I think these pods provide some context as to the sheer brutality he went through and that he is (still) trying to find is way through a very dark world. I do not believe he his a predator, he was reacting to situations & feelings in the wrong way. I hope that now he his focusing on his recovery, to be a better person, that this will become evident over time however I know some people will only ever focus on the negative and won’t let him make amends
@@Ginny89467 No absolutely not. Victim blaming the child Drake preyed on, pretending it’s untrue when Drake pled guilty and admitted his involvement, is not acceptable. I’m absolutely not listening to some misogynistic, rpe apologist, manosphere, enabling & unaccountable pod when you haven’t even had the good grace to listen to the pod you are commenting on in reply to me. I believe victims, I stand with survivors, I’m not going to excuse and deny criminal behaviour bc of your reply.
@@BeccaAl there was no evidence of or charges brought relating to physical or SA after a 2 year investigation, these would have been included even if he only pled guilty to some of them, the victims statement was not factual evidence! You won’t stand for victim blaming but you won’t listen to Drake who is a victim & I use present tense because he will always be affected by his abuse in his everyday life which he talks about in the 2 podcasts I mentioned. He talks about his lack of trust and how he copes in day to day life that he didn’t notice until he started to get help last year (he locks himself in the bathroom) & how going to rehab has given him tools to better manage when he’s on life’s rollercoaster Maybe the focus should be on encouraging people to seek support before their past becomes too much to handle and dealt with in the wrong way
This is so informative and well-thought-out. It’s crazy to me how little discourse I’ve heard about Drake Bell regarding the 2021 case and I realized how much misinformation I’ve been hearing and reading on TikTok about Jane Doe in the case. I hope this video keeps inspiring people to talk about how both famous and non-famous victims are impacted by this cycle of abuse. I think you guys made some really thought-provoking points that helped me see the quiet on set documentary from a different angle.
The utter blindness to human behaviour in those letters is just staggering (as, obviously, are the moral failings of their authors). "But he wasn't running around clutching himself and crying and implying he had a horrible secret! So how could he have been abused? I don't buy it. Or even if he was abused it made him a STAR!" is just one of the most apocalyptically and egregiously callous and ignorant lines of thought I've ever seen anyone actually use in real life. It's the sort of thing someone says in a movie to show that they're both evil and shallow. The fact that people can say things like that, and also be convinced that they're the morally superior arbiters of truth in the world, is the reason I run away from anyone I don't know with the intensity of a cockroach scurrying for the blessed safety of the darkness under the fridge. I also don't understand exactly how it's exculpating to say "Well he REALLY REALLY tempted me" when you're talking about a fucking child. Surely that means you're just DEFINITELY DEFINITELY a paedophile then. I'm just one guy with one set of life experiences, so maybe I'm alone in this, but I personally don't get hard for kids. Like at all. So it would be essentially impossible for any amount of "temptation" to have any effect on me whatsoever. It doesn't ameliorate anything to say you were tempted, especially if it was for an extended period of time. All it does it prove that it wasn't a heat-of-the-moment thing at all and that there was an underlying proclivity being exercised there.
Gotta say i disagree that the doc shouldn't have mentioned the person saying "you're homophobic to make this assumption". If it's the truth it should be out there.
the idea of the public using what is said by the defense attorney to discredit the victim or alleged abused in these cases is so baffling to me, because it requires like, a complete misunderstanding of the role of attorneys in the legal system. they have no moral or legal obligation to tell the truth, no one is making them swear on a bible. their entire job is to defend the accused. duh.
In regards to Drake Bell case... It was only text messages and he didn't know her age. He stopped as soon as he learned her age. He pled guilty to take responsibility for the texts and because he couldn't afford a trial. He apologized. He complied with the judge's sentence. He keeps away from her. He hasn't done it again. What else is he supposed to do about it? He's not irredimable. A broken life can be restored.
I’m really happy you made this video because I didn’t see these flaws with the docuseries and the rehabilitation arc that they fed us about Drake kind of worked on me, which is kind of embarrassing to admit because I didn’t rly look into it. After watching this though and learning the facts I think it’s rly gross and sad how he’s using the docuseries to bolster his image and continues to harass the victim.
Until starting this.....I'd almost forgotten that "child influencer" is a real thing. An actual job. Done by kids. I just find that concept flat out dystopian. I can't even fathom a good faith argument for why that's something that should even _exist._ Personally, I love social media and the internet. Yeah, there's downsides. But far more upsides. For me. I literally _just_ turned 40. I spent my entire childhood sans internet....we didn't get a modem and whatnot until I was 16 or 17. So I got the best of both worlds. An internet/social-media free childhood. And a young adulthood coinciding with the glory days of the early internet, when everything was new and fun. The internet introduced me to people who became close irl friends and opened my mind to the broader world and broader ideas. And even now, I'm good at balancing it all. I'm quite online....but manage to keep my internet life non-toxic. But man....if the internet and social media existed from _the moment I was born?_ I think I'd probably have turned into a profoundly maladjusted adult, riddled with depression and anxiety and social problems. And now kids are literally working as influencers?? Late-stage capitalism is _not_ treating us well....
Hi. Victim of CSA here and queer person. I've also wronged people with similar behavior that was done to me. I've never thought of myself as a ped*, because ped* is a medical condition. What I did, and what was done to me, it's abuse. Not all people who abuse children are ped*, because children are abused due to them being vulnerable. To this day, people don't think either me or the people who did it to me could do such a thing. I did it before I worked on my ish, I am sorry, I work on never doing it again or enabling it. There's no BOOM paparazzi flash on the story. It is not justified what I did because of what was done to me. Recognize abuse, say something, own your faults, work to never do the same mistakes. I am saddened listening to this because it's obvious that the culture still has an understanding of CSA worth of a 5 year old, but there are plenty of 5 year olds that need adults to behave like adults. To Drake, to the children in their lives. I heard before that hurt people hurt people WHEN they don't work on their ish. You have to work on that. Side note. I didn't even notice the whole complaint about the guests voice until I read the comments. Not sure why that's a thing.
You talk about important issue that how people think about p*dos. as people attracted to prepubescent children.. and dont see 18 passing 16 yo as minors. And I agree being sexual predator doesn't require someone to be p*do. Also what people don't realise even tho they themselves may not think of having intimate relationships with teenager some inappropriate interaction with adults can normalise such relationships for teens and make it easier tor actual predator to swoop in. I remember in pass how it was normalised that heving older boyfriend is better cos he has more experience. as in is better ... but now we recognise it's bad cos he can more easily manipulate and groom. We need talk about these thing openly and rationally in places where it's it appropriate to stop these cycles of abuse. Also how people in past mever properly explained why consent to sex in some countries is lower then consumption of p*rn. I didn't get why, when it can't get you pregnant or give you std. and why are adults so drawn to it when it's so bad. Only in recent years I am seing the whole picture and the answers to why.
@@Acinnn Also I hate that people defend grooming and large age gaps because someone just turn 18 via DiCaprio and all of the women he has dated so far.
Yes, two truths exist, I’ve seen sooo many people deny Drake’s crimes when that’s not their place to as well as people bringing it up to invalidate his victimhood. Either way, people are treating the subject as situational rather than systemic when they can’t acknowledge both.
early comment hi everyone, remember to drink some water, take ur meds, and take a break if you need to!!! i love you. trauma is a hard subject, and you're allowed to do whatever you need to
I think the way I get my head around these sorts of tragic cases, where someone has something awful happen to them and then goes on to do awful to someone else, is to think of being a victim and being a perpetrator as non-mutually exclusive. They may be intimiately connected in complex ways, but if someone if a victim does not mean they can't be a perpetrator, and being a perpetrator doesn't mean they can't be a victim. Framing in this way means I can think about the tragedy that has befallen them, and the reasons they may act the way they have without excusing their behaviour. It means I can really think deeply about the awful set of circumstances someone might've endured, without risking re-casting them in an innocent role. It's definitely helped me feel comfortable about my own abusive father and how he would talk about his abusive past.
i feel like they said this in quiet on set, but i'm p sure drake's mom was manipulated the same way drake was by this guy, he told her she was being overbearing any time she showed concern and i'm sure his mom doesn't want to speak up now because she probably knew something was wrong and didn't say anything because he convinced her not to and she probably blames herself
One thing that Drake's father mentioned was that Peck managed to fool Drake's mother that he (Peck) was a safe person. When I heard this, as a person who has been in an abusive relationship, it sounded like Drake's father acknowledged that Peck was the abuser and everyone in this situation was a victim to Peck. The father was so empathetic towards his ex and son. There was no blame laid at her door and I am saddened to hear that some members of the public have decided this was her fault.
yes absolutely. it wasn't their fault they couldn't see it. a tiny bit of responsibility is on his mother for not listening to her ex's warnings, but it isn't her fault drake was abused. she was primed to see him as unreasonable and peck should have been a safe man.
Agreed. In my experience, it's so much easier for people to overlook a father putting a child in danger or being negligent of the child than a mother doing the same. Absent fathers are so much more prevalent in English-speaking popular media, especially fiction, than absent mothers are unless the mother is dead. People don't outright say it, but there's this implication that "well I can understand how a father could overlook this, because they're all inattentive and uncaring, but all mothers are eagle-eyed and shrewd and would notice any issue immediately".
This is a huge stick with which to beat both of the sexes in question, and the worst thing is that it's self-perpetuating. The more you tell men they'll never be as good at parenting as women, the quicker some men will give up and the less some will even try in the first place, and the more you tell women they're all wonder-mothers, the more often an understandable human mistake makes a good mother feel like an awful, uncaring failure as a parent. Neither of these things helps a person become a better parent. Just another way the value of diversity in storytelling actually makes for a better society overall.
@@DontTrackMe you see this in cases where there are family annihilators too. If the mother does it the rage against her is completely unhinged but when a man does it there's often completely disgusting empathetic comments. "Oh he had to do it because he couldn't live with the shame!" "Oh men are like that but women are supposed to live their children unconditionally!"
Just really cold really horrendous stuff.
I think Matt and Kat missed the point of the show completely. It wasn’t to show the cycle of abuse but Nickelodeon did kids dirty. Which is why people are on Drake Bell side. Even though it’s completely not okay for him to continue the cycle of abuse. Plus, how he is going after his victims now. However, kinda disappointed that they are a little over looking how terrible Brian Peck and making Drake Bell seem way worse. They are both shitty people.
@@MadameFutureSomethingthat’s essentially what Matt & Kat said, they said the producers wanted it to have a clear-cut good people/bad people dichotomy (Nickelodeon & brian = bad guys, adult child stars = good guys) rather than a nuanced perspective showing the cycle of abuse & supporting victims. Maybe you just misunderstood, or zoned out at that part?
re: 12-year-olds being perved on by adults, when my kid was that age, men would come up to us in public and tell me how beautiful she was, especially her eyes, and when I shut them down and say, "She's 12," they would tell me I should be flattered and even argue about it! There are some really creepy men out there and they lack self-awareness of how much they suck.
You are the one who is equating people thinking another human's eyes are beautiful with it being a sexual advance. Americans!
many women agree that they've been the most hit on/catcalled on the street when they were kids or teens 🥲
Yea when I was 12 all these older men LOVED me
I bet they thought that as long as they didn't mention her body they were in the clear. But what mattered is how the comment made the other person feel, not what the comment was about.
Yall would have to send me to jail, cause I'd be fighting if any grown ass man did that to my daughter, or even son
Those letters are all disgusting, I’m so tired of the victim always being blamed
same
Abuse doesn't ameliorate or cleanse you of abuse you have perpetrated. The cycle of abuse is very real, however, one can hold empathy for someone and likewise extend that empathy to the people said person has hurt. Prior abuse can provide an explanation for actions but not an excuse for them.
Yep. And he makes it so much harder to have empathy for by refusing to take accountability and trying to rewrite history?? If he could just own it and admit to all his crimes, he would be MORE respected and it would also further support survivors coming forward. It's all so counterproductive on his part and shows that this is not about *victims* to him it's just about his own ego.
@@judysm95But according to the public court docs, most of the accusations against him were disproven during the trial. He found out her age and blocked her number. He pled guilty to child endangerment and served his punishment.
The New York Times article about this in 2021 seemed to be the primary reason the public believed he was a sex offender, and last month they issued a retraction because it turns out he was never required to register as a sex offender.
@JNDReacts no they didnt show this. He knew her age for years. They literally discussed the timeline in this video. Like you are emulating the same vibes of the letters defending Brian peck to defend Drake.
@@stephbevis3446 How am I emulating those vibes? I never said he definitely didn’t do it, or he did it but it was a mistake and he’s sorry, or whatever bullshit those letters said. I was just saying what I’ve read about the public court case, and the fact that The New York Times had to issue a retraction.
@judysm95 no, he should not be "respected" just like his abuser should not be respected if he had confessed.
this feels so accurate for this case in particular: you can feel bad for the child and still hate the adult they have become
I’m happy you’re talking about this because it scared me that my little sister thinks that Drake Bell being abused absolves him.
that must be frustrating- can’t imagine my family thinking that way :/
Tell her if she goes by that logic then Brian Peck would also be absoveld too because he was probably abused as well. All this is abuse denial, make her realize how stupid it is.
We really need to teach people that an explanation is not an excuse.
@@ambiguoussarcasm for a lot of people is not even logic is they believe what Drake said/claimed in the documentary he said that he only pled guilty to texting the girl. He claims in the documentary that as soon as he knew her age, he stopped talking to her, but I think he said that because he knows that a lot of people didn’t actually watch his court sentencing, and would just take his words at face value. (I accidentally did a lot of people on TikTok seem to be saying stuff that makes it seem like they just believe what he said)
@@ambiguoussarcasm but I think this is again because of what Matt mentioned they didn’t have any context or anyone to clarify that usually in cases like this, they only plead guilty to the lesser crimes, because after a long time is hard to prove the more severe ones without a lot of evidence. Without that clarification, he was allowed to manipulate it to his advantage and make it seem like the media genuinely made him look bad.
I would love to see you cover THORN and Ashton.
I'm a sex worker and tbh, most of us have been skeeved out by it since the beginning. Very rarely are anti-trafficking groups doing the work they allege, and I'd love to see someone with your platform talk about it.
🫶🫡
SAME!
same
found a great article on engadget addressing this topic, definitely worth a read bc...yeah it's pretty skeevy
What a great topic. Learning the truth of it all has been devastating 😔
ive been reading stories about child influencers and youtube babies. it's crazy. We think of that almost as this "new" phenomenon, like "whats going to happen to those kids" but like, its the same story as Judy Garland and other early child celebrities. forcing kids to be the breadwinner for their families is a dynamic that will always hurt the child and it's a cycle that has repeated since the beginning
I genuinely don’t get why the argument of “they seduced them, they were tempting them!” Is ever used in these cases because like a) it’s gross but b) it literally doesn’t matter?? Like even if that was true the onus is still on the adult in that scenario to shut that down, even if that were true there’s still zero consent possible with that type of power dynamic and with the fact that one is a minor, and it’s still a crime??? It’s really not an argument in anyone’s defence and makes me so angry
Yes! If an adult can't even control their urges... How can they be trusted to make any other kind of decision in life?! Like, just don't SA a minor?!?! It's as simple as that?
Similarly, defending a criminal by stating they were such a good friend to you, or even anyone they considered a friend. How is that relevant, of course, if the abuse didn't happen to you or around you, it's hard to imagine a person be capable of such things, but that disbelief doesn't hold any water
I think it's important to hold the line that it's not true, though.
@@BlueCyann I agree that it’s not true here, and it’s important to say that, this was specifically about people using that as an argument at all because like I said it’s a crime either way so it’s just a bad argument
Are y'all referring to what Drake himself did, or what was done to him as a teen?
When my wife and I started dating I was 21, she told me she was 19. I asked for her ID just to be sure. It's very easy to make sure.
👆🏽
dude same, i was twenty when i started dating my 18 yr old ex and i wanted to make sure she wasnt in high school because i thought that would be way too weird and waited for her send me a pic of her w her diploma. like its not hard
Only *30%* of abuse victims grow up to be abusers.
I feel bad for Drake Bell, but this doesn't absolve him of guilt. I just hope that more abuse victims start seeing therapists. 🙏🏾💔
holy GOD that is a far, far, farrrrr larger percentage than I thought. do you have some source for this? trauma is my autistic special interest and maybe my bar for abuse is just too high but i haven't observed that in the wild through my voracious anecdote gathering lol? are we only talking about CSA? but even then... that's way too high surely?!
ok i googled it quickly and it seems to be that among men, it's that about a third of ABUSERS were themselves ABUSED. as in 2/3 of abusers weren't even abused themselves. that could be true and you could still have 99% of victims never be abusers. so for example, imagine you have a town full of people and 100 adults, let's call that group P for perps, abuse 100 kids, let's call them group V for victims. the stats say that 30 of group P were abused as kids. but you could still have only 1 of group V ever do something later... but in "round 2" we will have more people joining group P out of nowhere, that's why we don't run out of group P (or of group V, since group P creates group V). it's more confusing when you try to think of it all at the same time instead of in cycles.
Drake was innocent in that case I don't know how people are still claiming he was guilty😅😅
@@SAMEntalhealth he pled guilty fam
@velaethia6 A lot of innocent people plea guilty. I am not saying Drake Bell is innocent but I am tired of comments like yours. Yall act like just because someone was found not guilty means they are innocent. Just because someone plea guilty it means they did it. Please think deeper.
"sexual offenders are rehabilitated in every industry! That's what the Metoo movement was about. But the fixation on Hollywood and Celebrity itself drives people to believe Hollywood is uniquely capable of these things, but they're just getting the attention because their celebrates." -Kattenbarge
image rehabilitation, sure, but otherwise, not at all
what shocks me about all those letters is that so many adults think that a child even can be seductive in any capacity!! wtf is wrong with these people? they act like it would be hard to not engage with a minor if they „pressured“ you to, while every normal person would be grossed out by even the thought of it. there seem to be much more creeps in this indzstry than I realized….
Literally. I would be disgusted and mortified if a minor kid came onto me. I don’t even know why anybody fantasized about jt or wants it to happen. Adults are responsible for ensuring that they aren’t doing anything romantic or sexual or grooming when it comes to minors and even young adults. Ew. 🤢
Exactly my thoughts! Like, if a 12 year old boy had any form of interest in me, I wouldn't even need to think for a millisecond about my reaction. I mean honestly, what adult is tempted by that!? Reminds me of Lolita and what the world made of the book, acting as if Lolita was the seductress even though she was kidnapped and so much worse. I will never understand the thoughts of these people, truly...
Matt, once again you’ve outdone yourself. You and Kat raised amazing points, particularly in the last segment regarding Drake’s online behavior and leveraging the entire Internet against someone else… which contradicts exactly what he was trying to explain in the documentary. I wish Drake lots of healing. But like you said, his victim will never have “her documentary.”
Are you kidding me? His quote on quote victim had family friends come forward that know her personally calling out on her bs. There was proof that she was lying about what she was trying to accuse him of, legitimate proof, and you guys still go along with he is guilty? I really do not understand the mentality behind that mask crowd that believes he's still guilty to this day😅😅
@@SAMEntalhealthwait weren't u given Alexa nickolas bs for supporting drake bell?
Omg thank you for making this!!! I’m tired of the narrative that victims can’t also be abusers. Abuse doesn’t teach you to be a good person, which is basically the underlying message of this narrative. I don’t know Brian Peck’s life, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he also was abused because it’s not uncommon for abusers to once have been victims themselves. That doesn’t mean I suddenly think it’s ok he sexually abused children. I wish people would realize people are not two dimensional.
I don't think that Brian Peck was SA'ing people because he's repeating a pattern, I had an abuser very similar in personality to Brian and I just think they were very dark, sick evil people, my abuser had a good family life, great parents and support and love and I've asked so many times, his friends, family... if he ever was hurt in some way or abused and there's no evidence that my abuser was abused, I dunno... some of the people who are abused become abusers, especially if they don't seek help but Brian's crimes... He was a fan of Gacy, I just don't think it was the cycle of abuse in his case.
Right? Victims are human beings as well, not "angels".
Very impressed at how sensitively the issue of child abuse was handled here. Thank you so much for all your care and for all the support & compassion shown for victims throughout this episode. I hope everyone listens to the very end to hear the victim impact statement. It is heart wrenching but also so self possessed. ❤
Something you guys spend a lot of time focusing on is the way victims are characterized in court and how repetitive it seems to be -- there's a name for it!! It's the "nuts and sl*ts defense," and there have been petitions and other movements to ban its use.
wow they couldn’t have thought of a better name 💀
I will never understand how people can live with themselves after writing those character reference letters, especially when they KNOW. Like, how do you look yourself in the mirror after that? How do you sleep at night??
Was thinking the same thing. Incomprehensibly gross.
Yeah he literally admitted to it. I would maybe understand supporting him if he claimed he didn't do it but he ADMITTED it
Yeah. Especially when the victim was a minor. It's wild.
I will never defend their decision to write those letters, and I would never have done it were I in their position, but I think there's some context missing when we think about this. Like, its not as if they knew the victim was Drake beforehand, and Drake publicly announced that he was brutally SA'd by Brian, and THEN they went and wrote letters defending Brian. No.. what happened was the victim was anonymous and Brian went to people he had worked with closely for years and told them a manipulative sob story about how he was taken advantage of by a young pervy tramp boywhore who lied about his age to Brian, and now has turned it around against him, and that's why he had to admit guilt because they had him cornered, blah blah blah.
So - does this absolve those letter writers? Absolutely not. The fact remains that *they didn't hear the other side, and they believed the accused by default instead of at least giving the victim the benefit of the doubt.* That's bad no matter how you look at it. It's just not quite the same though as the context that some people are assuming when they're trying to wrap their head around how in the world so many people could stoop to writing letters in defense of a predator. Predators manipulation goes beyond their victims.
I think it’s more about money, he helped make them a lot of money. They were willing to overlook or justify what he did so they could keep making money. It’s disgusting
The shocking aspect of the letters is how they aren't even arguing that "this never happened" - but rather, that "it doesn't make him guilty".
I need to get my eyes checked because when I read that title on my phone I thought it said "Dragon Ball and the Cycle of Abuse."
On the next episode of dragon ball, Goku learns a hard lesson about intergenerational trauma
@@emmerz325I'm going to hell for laughing at this 😭
"VEGETA! HANGING OUT WITH LITTLE BOYS IN SPANDEX AGAIN I SEE!"
"UHHHHH... YES."
"I TOLD YOU YOU CAN'T BE DOING THAT VIRGINIA"
@@swollenapocryphawho the fuck is Virginia lmao
That was a DEEP cut 🤣 @@swollenapocrypha
Peck is almost cartoonishly monstrous. He was corresponding with John Wayne Gacy as a pen pal before his execution and had framed letters from the serial child killer displayed in his house.
That's fucked, he should be looked at more closely
something really upsetting about this (aside from yknow, all of it) is how drake's queerness as a kid was viewed as self evidently proof that he asked for it. it's wild because so often homophobes claim gay people are that way because of abuse, when in fact queer kids are singled out and targeted by abusers deliberately because they are less likely to be believed and given care.
Just started the video and wanted to say I so appreciate you saying "child sexual abuse" out loud. I know a lot of creators rely on RUclips for income and censor their language to navigate around certain guidelines, but I think using quirky terms to describe certain issues can really detract from the weight of these conversations. It's refreshing to hear someone not shy away from it.
Bell was such a large part of this documentary’s narrative that it likely wouldn’t have been made (or at least would have gotten a lot less attention) if he didn’t agree to do it. And he definitely wouldn’t have agreed be interviewed it if they didn’t absolve him of his crimes in some way.
shady boots! the integrity of the narrative should outweigh the "stars" preference, even if that means releasing it independently.
which totally destroys the journalistic integrity of the entire project.
QOS was about 15 year old drakes experience as a child actor, yes they may have been treading carefully but that was because they wanted to support drake in going public.
He said in an interview that it was a 2 day interview & he didn’t want to go back the 2nd day (plus more memories are coming back ever time he talks with people about that time), he has discussed other things in several interviews since QOS
your guest is SO SMART
Allan Thicke defending Peck makes so much sense because Thicke's _actual son_ is Robin Thicke, famous for the date r*pe anthem "Blurred Lines."
I remember when that song was playing constantly on the radio
Meanwhile Alan Thicke had a “relationship” with an underage Kristy Swanson (17 at the time) and he was 40 YEARS OLD. They were engaged when she was 19 but never married.
Good. That’s disgusting. Even if she was 18, your brain isn’t fully developed at that age so there’s a power imbalance. Why is it so hard to date people your own age? Smh
Melissa also described the abuse she received as "the worst abuse you can imagine" which is the same or very similar to how Drake describes the abuse he received. I don't think that it was intentional on Drake's part in the documentary but it really jumped out at me as a parallel. Highlighting the cycle of abuse again.
It is a very common phrase that is used to avoid giving details, or it could also be that Drake told her everything that way, there are a thousand truths
It is a very common phrase that is used to avoid giving details, or it could also be that Drake told her everything that way, there are a thousand truths
@@ruth.zarita_That's fair that theres a lot of possibilities. I'm not trying to conspiracy theorize so my apologies if that's the impression my comment gave. I was trying more to draw a parallel between their experiences and highlight the cycle of abuse but I do see that isn't clear in my comment. I edited the comment for clarity.
She also mentioned that he was an alcoholic, not to water down what happened to her…. But it’s very possible he doesn’t remember any of what he did because he was self medicating and drinking. Having dealt with addicts & alcoholics myself, they really don’t know what they’ve done to others. Makes me wonder if she ever knew he was dealing with this. His wife knows but I wonder if he ever told his other partners. He finally got the therapy he needed back then and has acknowledged in multiple interviews how he’s hurt many people. I definitely think Drake deserves some grace
Weren’t a lot of her claims proven to be false during the trial? Like it was proven that he was never alone with her during the times that she claimed he was? And I’m not talking a lack of evidence, but actual evidence that disproved what she was saying?
Thank you for calling out the social misogyny and victim-blaming of finding a woman (especially a mother) to blame.
Instead of placing the blame fully on predators and predatory systems that take advantage of victims and their families.
I also wonder where the interview with Drake’s mom was. Why doesn’t she have a chance to explain how she was also victimized by Peck and the entertainment industry (gaining trust, taking advantage of an overwhelmed single mother, etc.)
Friendly PSA (but mostly a short comment to boost the video): Documentaries don't have to be accurate, they have to keep you watching. Thank you for your time!
True.
No. A documentary is supposed to document (shocker) something. The more truthful, the better. I’m waiting for the documentary about key queer influencers who are exercising the art of ignorance aka radio silence about the medical scandal surrounding medically affirming care for minors, despite knowing about the health implications and side effects with minimal potential improvement, the sterilization the blockers cause in most cases at an age hardly anyone can give informed consent not to mention someone suffering additional distress from comorbidities and the social transition.
@@MFRUclips683 documentaries have no reason to be accurate (besides, moral obligation ofc)
@@W-I463 it‘s literally in the name -> documentary from latin _documentum_ - documentation. _official papers, or written material that provides proof of something_ but you do you. Any documentary that is untruthful or intentionally caters to a narrative is an opinion piece.
@@MFRUclips683 Lots of documentaries present a false narrative as true, I've seen documentaries that deny climate change and the moon landing for example, and there's a lot of celebrity documentaries meant to either hate on or magnify a celebrity. Etymology doesn't matter when we're describing facts. Fact is, documentaries don't necessarily present the truth, even if they're trying to make the audience believe they do. They absolutely have a narrative and an agenda, whether it's for good or not.
So informative. I can't believe the ppl who wrote the letters of support to abusers thought that would remain secret. The audacity.
@21:03 As an abuse survivor, there's a big difference between who "let" this happen, and who " made" this happen. Therapy helps the victim with a lot of that. If I could prescribe therapy to the masses, I would.
I was holding off on fully forming my opinions until the 5th episode aired and it left an even worse taste in mouth that they still didn’t address the allegations against Drake and just gave him a platform to talk to about his music 🙃
i’m assuming that not pushing him to comment on that was the ‘price to pay’ to get him to speak on the abuse he experienced but to me that ends up diluting/ruining the series’ message if they’re willing to do that. Just as you both say, the series itself ends up as part of the cycle because of this choice and it’s super disappointing.
Thanks to you and Kat for this discussion! i’m happy to see more people push back on this aspect of the series.
When I first watched Quiet on Set, I thought it was very engaging too, but I kept hearing some pretty sharp audio cuts that gave me the impression that the people being interviewed were having their words cut up and pieced back together to build the narrative the show was trying to tell. Obviously, cuts are going to need to be made, since they can't show the full interview and pauses are often cut out for the sake of time, but I kept hearing their words cut off in weird places and that was one of the big things that made me start to feel like I wasn't getting the full story.
Also as one who has never really been proud to share the name, I would love to see the podcast on Ashton Kutcher!
I noticed the same thing too! It was done so many times that it became suspicious after a certain point. I understand making cuts to make the documentary shorter and more concise, but they were leaving entire portions of people’s stories out of the documentary. I feel like this was especially egregious when it came to the commentary given by the former black child actors and their parents, which was strange.
when Drake and Josh ended and Drake Bell stop being popular in US, he came to Mexico every now and then to keep milking his popularity, he got time in morning shows and got various comercial deals, especially when the case of his abuse was aired after 2021. He was seen in CDMX's bars and restaurants making his life while also having concerts and touring around here.
When the accusations and case were being discussed in 2021, a several of mexican fans where telling their stories in the comments, stories about past shows Drake had in Mexico (when he was in his cusp of fame) and invited them to back stage and abused his power, fame and celebrity status. I was not in there and cannot testify about this, i just readed them, but they were basically the same one in different places and people.
What Peck and the industry did to him was horrible and deplorable but Drake Bell has grown to be an abuser of minors who gets aways with committing crimes in places like Mexico where he can hide til everything calms down and he can go out again.
I'm surprised that he's still alive in Mexico
It saddens me a bit to see several comments about Kat's voice, seeing as that's not something a person can easily change. If I find someones way of speaking hard to process, then I'd chalk that up to a me problem and move one. Every thought doesn't have to be written down for the world (and the person in question) to see.
One thing that could actually be constructive, is to say that her mic has a tendency to peak at times, and it occurs to me that that might be something that can be adjusted in the settings to fit future guests in general.
I truly don't understand what the issue is? I like her voice?
For non-Americans her vocal fry can be a bit grating
@@ElizaKate13 I'm American and I noticed it when she started talking. But I put the video on 1.5 speed (they both speak fairly slowly for me) and it was fine. I fixed my own personal issue and thankfully got to hear the really incredible things she had to say.
@@angrylilcheewawai really don't see the problem I've always enjoyed listening to her
Yeah, it's an inappropriate entitlement people have to make those kinds of comments, and it certainly involves misogyny as well.
hearing this made me re-examine portrayals of abuse, especially documentaries. it would be fascinating to hear you make an episode on the shiny happy people docuseries (i think it does a better job balancing the stories of victims and survivors with people who speak with expertise), but no pressure at all.
Matt did an episode about Christian homeschooling which covers a lot of the same themes as shiny happy people, although the podcast doesn't explicitly talk about abuse in homeschool environments. Hearing the guests experiences growing up in Christian homeschooling is still very interesting.
So wonderful to see you two continue being well spoken, smart, and kind. This is exactly what needs to be said.
The themes Matt brings are so interesting so keep it up! Kat is an amazing guest every time, so well informed and explains everything greatly I love this podcast so much!
30:09 This sentence from Kat is so obvious but also so profound because these people actually believing that they can spot a predator from miles away is so insane. I can't help but laugh about how they must imagine how a tiger or black panther rampages loudly through the forest yelling "I'm a predator, here I come!" 😂😳
Very grateful to see this added to the conversation. I’ve been waiting for the acknowledgement of his crimes convicted and alleged while also maintaining space that he is also victim and that there is no such thing as a perfect one.
thank you for talking about this it's been worrying me so much how people act like there aren't still major concerns
They did release a 5th episode in the last couple days where they interviewed Drake again, but they don't address the abuse he was responsible for. It was almost glaring how absent the topic was from the conversation. Realistically, I understand why they wouldn't bring it up in the doc considering Drake received so much support in response to the first 4 episodes, but I thought it was irresponsible to not even mention the abuse.
Because there was no proof, when you have proof of something you can talk about it but if you don't, it's dangerous because false information is spread all the time I mean look at that girl he was in court with, so much evidence that she was lying on Drake and he had to go through all of that and hear about media articles and videos on RUclips calling him a pedophile, when in fact he was not doing what she claimed happened, it's misinformation that's so dangerous and I'm glad that they don't bring things up that have no actual evidence behind them, because it would be very very very toxic due to the fact that people's brains are so dumb to down nowadays they take what they want and they run with it they don't go by factual evidence anymore
This makes me so sad and angry. A child is abused and he becomes an abuser and benefits from the same thing that his abuser benefitted from. I wouldn't even be surprised if that's what he tells himself makes it okay. That at least now it benefits him. Who knows, it's just so frustrating. Especially because in both cases the perpetrator admitted guilt, it's not like it was inconclusive whether or not sth happened
Mostly this happens by men, because they need to feel that they control everything in their lives, and if they can't, they look for someone that they control. The myth that abuse makes someone wanting to help out others, is the same false logic of people surviving gens'aid makes one a better person.
Its a dangerous myth that leads to continuing the cycle of violence.
I LOVE listening to these podcasts while doing my boring admin job. Thank you so much for these informational deep dives I loooove the show
oh god… thank you for posting this video you are both incredible. I’m ashamed to be one of those that ran with the story once the quiet on set doc came out.. for some reason I immediately just believed that Drake was innocent of everything and fully deserved redemption.. i’m super thankful to have found this video and I’ll be doing more research on my own to have to full story.. i really gotta do that before hand. I hate how easy it is to fall into heard mentality based on the assumption that I’m doing the right thing 😔 ugh
i highly recommend watching his interview on We Are Man Enough, they really push on him to take accountability. great podcast, love you matt :)
Wowww them letters in support of Peck are something else
This was so depressing. Thank you for bringing nuance to this conversation/situation ❤
thank you for covering this video. i was reluctant to watch it because it seemed really exploitative to me and the way it had so many people getting so riled up at the wrong people. i was also worried about how they would handle peck, a gay man, being an abuser and when you said the documentarians were really irresponsible with it, it just put me off the documentary completely.
“To not only acknowledge victimhood when someone tells you to” SO well put.
I think the thing with celebrity abusers is it's just a magnification of what happens in "normal" abuse cases because of, as you mentioned, the parasocial aspects of celebrity. But the denial, the victim-blaming, the belief that just because someone was wonderful to you they couldn't possibly have hurt someone else - all those dynamics exist in "regular" abuse cases too. It's a hard topic to cover, but I'm glad y'all did it.
I fell in love with kat from the amber video and theyre slaying once again 🫶
This is so well articulated! As a child SA survivor everything you said rang true- in real life there are no pure heros or true villains, but the closest ones to evil are the perpetrators. It's horrific to see what broader society says in response to allegations of this nature and the victim-blaming occurring is getting really old as they do it EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Thank you for covering this!
1:10:38 THANK YOU for bringing this up! A TV set is a system like any other, especially one that creates capital (much like a lot of religious institutions, see all of the untaxed mega churches). Peck, Schneider, and now even Drake Bell himself were all more beneficial to the money making system at Nickelodeon than protecting abuse victims. And the idea that this is unique to Hollywood while child labor laws fall across the country and children are pushed into factory work again is laughable at best and horrifically conspiratorial at worse.
I will say, I found the sensationalizing of Schneider's crimes, both real and speculative, to create a very shallow portrayal of abuse. You're right to call it "righteous moral clarity." It is more entertaining and satisfying for the viewer to root against a cartoon villain's sensationalized actions than to actually attempt to dismantle the systems that perpetuate such abuse. There's been so much talk online speculating about the fetish content Schneider inserted in his shows, and this has even spiraled into conspiracy theories about the child actors on his shows and pressuring them to speak on these conspiracies. We DO know that Schneider sexually harassed his female co-writers and verbally abused tons of staff on his shows, including child actors. These less sensational but very real allegations have not gotten the same traction, and I think it's because of what WE as the public find entertaining vs unacceptable, and what that says about ourselves. We WILL sit down and watch dance moms, watch a grown woman verbally abuse a bunch of children, and find it entertaining. What does that say about us? Where was our righteous moral clarity then? Previous laws protecting child actors were written in their blood and tears, and they meant that the way we consumed entertainment made by children had to change. Shirley Temple could no longer dance in perpetuity for us. The documentary's style of reporting on these issues benefits from the current abusive system. People are harassing former child actors online asking to hear their stories. One would hope that one day in the future, we wouldn't need these docs anymore because we could effectively stop abuse before it happens, or appropriately punish abusers through the legal system. But the public appetite post-doc has been for MORE horror stories. I think the system will have to change in ways that make US uncomfortable. We may not get another dance moms. We might not see as many mommy bloggers on our feed. Shirley Temple stopped dancing but the world kept turning. I hope we can see past our gratuitous appetite for spectacle to actual help these victims and prevent abuse in the future, but my outlook has been bleak seeing how people reacted to all this.
Same.
I've been devouring your content over the past few days and I love the show. Just subbed to your Patreon, you deserve all the support for your amazing work!
In the case of Miss Jeanette McCurdy, her mother was the abuser.
But this isn't that case. And please stop calling adult women 'miss'; it's demeaning.
Isn't she the actor who wrote "I'm Glad My Mom Died"?
@@digitaldeathsquid3448 Yes, that's her.
@@digitaldeathsquid3448 Yes. Her mother was a terrible excuse of a human being.
@@alexs.5871 since when is "miss" demeaning??
I served on a jury just recently where they were prosecuting a man for similar crimes to those discussed here. The main evidence in the trial was witness testimony and forensic interviews that had done many years before, but after hearing the victims and their mothers speak it was very clear to me and the whole jury that the defendant was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, even witgout a direct confession. I know that here and in many places like you guys mentioned, that's not often how trials go, but I just wanted to share my experience knowing that I was on a jury where hearing a child's experience when they were brave enough to come forward was enough to soundly convict a predator.
Although the defense used similar mother/victim blaming arguments to allege that there was something to gain from lying about these type of crimes, in the end as you point out here, those kinds of arguments don't often hold true when there's someone with clear power and access and a victim who's willing to testify in detail.
I was also lucky that the defendant didn't show up to our court even for the verdict, so the victims weren't made to face him again when giving testimony.
Best video I’ve seen covering this
I appreciate the seriousness and nuance you brought to this. Critical thinking is so important on and it's a skill I've been actively working since i realized i was basically raised in a cult.
the comments are me and bots this is saur sad
I’m here now too!
Me too!!
we're here and we're princesses
When I hear this type of letters being written I try to imagine what type of relationship would compel me to do the same. But I am not able to find one. No friends or family members. If I understand that a close person to me has done something like this, I might need to internally process, but no amount of love for that person would make me write a letter in support. If you have done something you are capable of understanding how wrong it is, you need to stand on your "legs" for it and face any and all consequences.
Yeah disbelief and shock are understandable, especially initially, but writing and sending letters like that goes further than that
I don't know if it's because I'm just built different brain-wise but if someone really close to me even a family member, I don't care how much I love them, I'll DESPISE them because I am deeply angered by CSA and any love for them I have will be over written with disgust and hatred.
*CSA AND ATTEMPTED SA WARNING!!!!!:*
Which is what happened with my step-grandpa who I've known all of my life altho I've never seen him as just my grandpa because we hardly ever see him since he works late hours, who I recently learned is apparently a pedophile because he molested a family friend's kid daughter (I don't remember how old she was but she was prepubescent I think) and ppl knew about it but just chose to willfully ignore it bc ig my extended family has a huge problem of covering up or looking the other way towards any type of abuse.)
It was just late last year when he acted pretty suspiciously to both me and my parents when he and my grandma were staying over for the holidays and at one point, it was just me and him in the living room, I think was standing at the doorway between the living room and the kitchen, and he was lying down on the bed we set up in the middle of the room because we don't have a guest room or anything, and my grandma and everybody else was in another room. He then looked at me and said something in Spanish I couldn't really understand (we're all Mexican America but I wasn't raised to speak Spanish) but I definitely could tell me what he meant, and patted the spot of the bed right near his body and said to come sit. He wasn't even saying it in a predatory way at all, and usually I have pretty good judgement/instincts about these kind of things, but it made me taken aback.
It's then when I told my parents because I thought I might have been just paranoid and they immediately showed concern and suspicion of what he did. Then they told me of what he did to the little girl and my grandma just thinks he didn't do that because she thinks the girl and her parents were mistaken because he would never do that, and that they were just misguided but she doesn't think they're straight up lying. It was right after that that my view of him was permanently changed and I avoid him and distrust him now, and I feel no love for him at all.
(Uhhhh sorry for this super long and kinda comment and if this sounds weird and incoherent, I can't really think straight because I'm high 💀)
@@vi0let831 I am sorry that any of this has happened for both you and that girl. Not sure if anything I say will make anything better, so I won't.
But I do have a bit of unsolicited advice. Next time you get high open up some dog or cat videos, not something heavy, as this topic would just raise your anxiety 😃.
I'm glad you covered this. I'd aged out of Nickelodeon by the time his show was on the air. The documentary made it sound like he just did some naughty texting. I even googled him right after because I felt bad for the guy, but I didn't find any of this info (admittedly I did not do an extensive deep dive, but it's not in the first few results, especially post-doc). However, I think you can be sympathetic and admit what happened to him was heinous and that his abuser should have been put UNDER the jail, and still admit he's a terrible person. Guilt isn't pie, there's enough for everyone.
Thank you for talking about this! The documentary just skated over this and I think it such a very important aspect.
This episode would be grateful aided by adding an expert on abuse to describe what we actually know from research and clinical evidence to speak to the finer points here
i really recommend Drake's interview with the 'Man Enough' podcast to anyone who wants to see a nuanced take direct from Drake; it feels quite complementary to this video and i'm glad i watched this for the legal facts to hold together with the interview conversation
the main host who conducts the interview was abused himself, and later became an abuser, so has the capacity and experience to navigate the nuance of the discussion, and it felt like watching a really valuable part of his process as Drake voluntarily stepped into an interview that pushes for accountability and vulnerability side and did make some progress within it
obviously it's just one conversation, and the host did make reference to the fact that he himself had previously lied about his own actions as an abuser before taking full ownership and changing his behaviour, insinuating that he didn't entirely believe Drake's take on certain things, but it's hands down the best interview i've seen with him given the specific container they were able to create in that environment with that specific interviewer
such a rarity
i actually love this podcast matt. it's so difficult to find podcasts where people speak intelligently about this stuff. so much nuance that i think doesn't exist on platforms like tiktok, instagram or even on youtube.
This was the chaser I needed after Quiet on Set
That bit about people not knowing how to identify abuse without a narrator is genius. I’m swiping that.
I think that the question “why did they keep Drake at Nick or in the industry if they thought Brian was any kind of threat?” is a great one.
1) Bell stresses that Brian Peck is a master of manipulation. Peck manipulated Drake and his mother into believing that his father’s suspicions were wrong.
2) Pulling your child out of the industry comes with its own set of risks. If a kid does actually enjoy acting and being on set, a parent inhibiting them could be detrimental to the relationship. In addition, child stars of the ‘90s and ‘00s had a habit of emancipation. I imagine that it was a very real fear for her, having a teenage star who already distanced himself from one parent. I also cannot help but believe that Peck would have offered this up as a path for Drake if his mother took his father’s advice.
I’m not saying that this fear drove her to make a good decision. However, it definitely would have factored into mine, were I in her position.
In "quite on set" drake's dad talks about how Brian was trying to get Drake emancipated if the Dad didn't step back from being Drake's manager.
Thank you for your commitment to discussing these issues with nuance and emotional maturity ❤ it feels like such an antidote to all the victim blaming and rape myths.
It was also very helpful to look at Kat's beautiful shiny hair while processing such challenging topics 😂
This was such an important video. I just watched QOTS last night, and while I thought it was incredibly important and am grateful these people felt safe enough now to speak out now, I did feel there was a concerted effort on the doc's part to not address Drake's own crimes against a child, and the harm he did to her.
It was about 15 yr old drake and Hollywood, not adult drake. Drake stood up back then & that paedophile sent to jail! It was also not the appropriate time when just coming forward to talk about happened to him was hard enough
Also if you listen/watch any interview before & after QOS he addresses the attempted endangerment & disseminating harmful information charges, holds his hands up for being reckless & responding to the messages which is why he pled guilty after a 2 year investigation
Wow when u pointed out the Kat has this all memorized… I’m amazed!! I’ve really enjoyed your episodes with her.
The exact same people who watched Quiet on Set are responsible for cultivating the exact same environment that still attacks victims when they go after Drake Bell’s victim. It would be almost funny how ironic it is, if it wasn’t so horrifying.
This is such a in-depth discussion and the cycles of abuse, thanks Matt and Kat, I already follow Kat & I subbed to this channel.
My heart goes out to the girls & women Drake victimised 1st. I wish them peace & healing, to survive & thrive.
And I do wish Drake be honest & truly show remorse. I understand the pain he suffered as a victim of B Peck effected his mentality towards relationships. But his actions were also inexcusable.
He’s a lot of work to do to become a decent father, partner & man.
I recommend listening to the luminosity & man enough podcast, these made me realise how bad it got for drake, whilst I don’t condone his behaviours (personally I don’t believe the SA allegations from 2021), I think these pods provide some context as to the sheer brutality he went through and that he is (still) trying to find is way through a very dark world. I do not believe he his a predator, he was reacting to situations & feelings in the wrong way.
I hope that now he his focusing on his recovery, to be a better person, that this will become evident over time however I know some people will only ever focus on the negative and won’t let him make amends
@@Ginny89467 No absolutely not. Victim blaming the child Drake preyed on, pretending it’s untrue when Drake pled guilty and admitted his involvement, is not acceptable.
I’m absolutely not listening to some misogynistic, rpe apologist, manosphere, enabling & unaccountable pod when you haven’t even had the good grace to listen to the pod you are commenting on in reply to me.
I believe victims, I stand with survivors, I’m not going to excuse and deny criminal behaviour bc of your reply.
@@BeccaAl there was no evidence of or charges brought relating to physical or SA after a 2 year investigation, these would have been included even if he only pled guilty to some of them, the victims statement was not factual evidence!
You won’t stand for victim blaming but you won’t listen to Drake who is a victim & I use present tense because he will always be affected by his abuse in his everyday life which he talks about in the 2 podcasts I mentioned. He talks about his lack of trust and how he copes in day to day life that he didn’t notice until he started to get help last year (he locks himself in the bathroom) & how going to rehab has given him tools to better manage when he’s on life’s rollercoaster
Maybe the focus should be on encouraging people to seek support before their past becomes too much to handle and dealt with in the wrong way
This is so informative and well-thought-out. It’s crazy to me how little discourse I’ve heard about Drake Bell regarding the 2021 case and I realized how much misinformation I’ve been hearing and reading on TikTok about Jane Doe in the case. I hope this video keeps inspiring people to talk about how both famous and non-famous victims are impacted by this cycle of abuse. I think you guys made some really thought-provoking points that helped me see the quiet on set documentary from a different angle.
The utter blindness to human behaviour in those letters is just staggering (as, obviously, are the moral failings of their authors). "But he wasn't running around clutching himself and crying and implying he had a horrible secret! So how could he have been abused? I don't buy it. Or even if he was abused it made him a STAR!" is just one of the most apocalyptically and egregiously callous and ignorant lines of thought I've ever seen anyone actually use in real life. It's the sort of thing someone says in a movie to show that they're both evil and shallow. The fact that people can say things like that, and also be convinced that they're the morally superior arbiters of truth in the world, is the reason I run away from anyone I don't know with the intensity of a cockroach scurrying for the blessed safety of the darkness under the fridge.
I also don't understand exactly how it's exculpating to say "Well he REALLY REALLY tempted me" when you're talking about a fucking child. Surely that means you're just DEFINITELY DEFINITELY a paedophile then. I'm just one guy with one set of life experiences, so maybe I'm alone in this, but I personally don't get hard for kids. Like at all. So it would be essentially impossible for any amount of "temptation" to have any effect on me whatsoever. It doesn't ameliorate anything to say you were tempted, especially if it was for an extended period of time. All it does it prove that it wasn't a heat-of-the-moment thing at all and that there was an underlying proclivity being exercised there.
Excactly👏
Gotta say i disagree that the doc shouldn't have mentioned the person saying "you're homophobic to make this assumption". If it's the truth it should be out there.
Yeah. They should’ve had a mental health professional or expert in sexual assault and abuse weigh in on how harmful that type of discourse is.
the idea of the public using what is said by the defense attorney to discredit the victim or alleged abused in these cases is so baffling to me, because it requires like, a complete misunderstanding of the role of attorneys in the legal system. they have no moral or legal obligation to tell the truth, no one is making them swear on a bible. their entire job is to defend the accused. duh.
This eerily reminds me of Celine Dion and her manager then husband...
As always a fantastic episode!
In regards to Drake Bell case... It was only text messages and he didn't know her age. He stopped as soon as he learned her age. He pled guilty to take responsibility for the texts and because he couldn't afford a trial. He apologized. He complied with the judge's sentence. He keeps away from her. He hasn't done it again. What else is he supposed to do about it? He's not irredimable. A broken life can be restored.
I’m really happy you made this video because I didn’t see these flaws with the docuseries and the rehabilitation arc that they fed us about Drake kind of worked on me, which is kind of embarrassing to admit because I didn’t rly look into it. After watching this though and learning the facts I think it’s rly gross and sad how he’s using the docuseries to bolster his image and continues to harass the victim.
I love the way you sit in this one, very fruity, very relatable
this is such important commentary, thank you both.
We really needed to hear this. Thank you.
Until starting this.....I'd almost forgotten that "child influencer" is a real thing. An actual job. Done by kids.
I just find that concept flat out dystopian.
I can't even fathom a good faith argument for why that's something that should even _exist._
Personally, I love social media and the internet. Yeah, there's downsides. But far more upsides. For me. I literally _just_ turned 40. I spent my entire childhood sans internet....we didn't get a modem and whatnot until I was 16 or 17.
So I got the best of both worlds. An internet/social-media free childhood. And a young adulthood coinciding with the glory days of the early internet, when everything was new and fun. The internet introduced me to people who became close irl friends and opened my mind to the broader world and broader ideas. And even now, I'm good at balancing it all. I'm quite online....but manage to keep my internet life non-toxic.
But man....if the internet and social media existed from _the moment I was born?_ I think I'd probably have turned into a profoundly maladjusted adult, riddled with depression and anxiety and social problems. And now kids are literally working as influencers?? Late-stage capitalism is _not_ treating us well....
Breaking yourself of the reflexive assumption that you are and/or have to be a good person is one of the most essential steps of being a good person!
I have been waiting for someone to talk about this.
Hi. Victim of CSA here and queer person. I've also wronged people with similar behavior that was done to me. I've never thought of myself as a ped*, because ped* is a medical condition. What I did, and what was done to me, it's abuse. Not all people who abuse children are ped*, because children are abused due to them being vulnerable. To this day, people don't think either me or the people who did it to me could do such a thing. I did it before I worked on my ish, I am sorry, I work on never doing it again or enabling it. There's no BOOM paparazzi flash on the story. It is not justified what I did because of what was done to me. Recognize abuse, say something, own your faults, work to never do the same mistakes. I am saddened listening to this because it's obvious that the culture still has an understanding of CSA worth of a 5 year old, but there are plenty of 5 year olds that need adults to behave like adults. To Drake, to the children in their lives. I heard before that hurt people hurt people WHEN they don't work on their ish. You have to work on that.
Side note. I didn't even notice the whole complaint about the guests voice until I read the comments. Not sure why that's a thing.
You talk about important issue that how people think about p*dos. as people attracted to prepubescent children.. and dont see 18 passing 16 yo as minors. And I agree being sexual predator doesn't require someone to be p*do. Also what people don't realise even tho they themselves may not think of having intimate relationships with teenager some inappropriate interaction with adults can normalise such relationships for teens and make it easier tor actual predator to swoop in. I remember in pass how it was normalised that heving older boyfriend is better cos he has more experience. as in is better ... but now we recognise it's bad cos he can more easily manipulate and groom. We need talk about these thing openly and rationally in places where it's it appropriate to stop these cycles of abuse.
Also how people in past mever properly explained why consent to sex in some countries is lower then consumption of p*rn. I didn't get why, when it can't get you pregnant or give you std. and why are adults so drawn to it when it's so bad. Only in recent years I am seing the whole picture and the answers to why.
@@Acinnn Also I hate that people defend grooming and large age gaps because someone just turn 18 via DiCaprio and all of the women he has dated so far.
Yes, two truths exist, I’ve seen sooo many people deny Drake’s crimes when that’s not their place to as well as people bringing it up to invalidate his victimhood. Either way, people are treating the subject as situational rather than systemic when they can’t acknowledge both.
thank you so much for this. seeing all of this go down made me feel like people only care about victims when they're good looking men
i feel like i leave this comment on every episode but i love this podcast!!! i’ve loved every single episode, keep it up!!!
early comment hi everyone, remember to drink some water, take ur meds, and take a break if you need to!!! i love you. trauma is a hard subject, and you're allowed to do whatever you need to
i almost forgot my meds this morning thank you
Being less critical of Drake's later actions as an adult is probably how they were able to even get him for the show.
Excellent episode. I didn’t know anything about Drake Bell before the documentary so it’s good to be more informed now about his criminal actions.
I think the way I get my head around these sorts of tragic cases, where someone has something awful happen to them and then goes on to do awful to someone else, is to think of being a victim and being a perpetrator as non-mutually exclusive. They may be intimiately connected in complex ways, but if someone if a victim does not mean they can't be a perpetrator, and being a perpetrator doesn't mean they can't be a victim.
Framing in this way means I can think about the tragedy that has befallen them, and the reasons they may act the way they have without excusing their behaviour. It means I can really think deeply about the awful set of circumstances someone might've endured, without risking re-casting them in an innocent role.
It's definitely helped me feel comfortable about my own abusive father and how he would talk about his abusive past.
i feel like they said this in quiet on set, but i'm p sure drake's mom was manipulated the same way drake was by this guy, he told her she was being overbearing any time she showed concern and i'm sure his mom doesn't want to speak up now because she probably knew something was wrong and didn't say anything because he convinced her not to and she probably blames herself
I could listen to you two talk about literally anything for hours on end...