Paver Base Prep | Why I Use (Open Grade Base).....
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- Опубликовано: 24 окт 2022
- Open Grade Base is the best backfilling method you can use for concrete paver applications like patios, walkways, steps and walls. Enjoy this video as I explain why Open Grade Base is far superior to Dense Grade (or class 5) Base.
Check out all the videos from this project in this playlist right here👉 • Paver Patio, Block Ste...
Check out all the videos from the other patio job seen in this video in this playlist right here👉 • Backyard Patio and Fir...
And the videos from the walkway install seen in this video in this playlist right here👉 • DIY Paver Walkway
#Paverbaseprep #OpengradebaseVsDensegradebase #pavers #concrete #hardscape #howto #patio #paverpatio #paverbase 
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Hey everyone, I get a lot of questions about the base prep method I use for pavers. So I made this video to explain it in as much depth as possible.
I hope it all makes sense, thanks for all your support! ✌
I'm a home DIYer so I love all the technical knowledge, but I'm enjoying this series more with you guys being bros. Watching you guys work and have fun makes it great
Nice, I'm glad to hear it! I try to include why I do what I do as much as possible in my videos. Thanks for the feedback! ✌
I’ve started my backyard patio project and I’ve watched so many of your videos leading up to the start. This particular video is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Here in Western Oregon we don’t get freezing/thawing weather so my base layer will likely be more around 6”…I think that will work. Thanks so much for all the videos and great explanations.
That's awesome, I'm glad the videos have been helpful! In your situation, 6" of base stone will be plenty 👌 Best of luck to you on your project! ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaperThanks brother!
Keep up the great work. Tell Ben I said hi. You explain things straight forward. You inspired me to incorporate pavers into my business sense I already clean and seal them. Look forward to your videos.
Thank you, I will! I try to explain things as simply as I know how to.... That is very cool you are going to start installing them, I bet you will really enjoy it. I actually dont deal with sealing pavers at all. Never did it really but I would love to have that skill on my resume. Good luck and God Bless! ✌
Hey guys thanks for all the videos I’m doing the end of my driveway now and have half my patio project done!
No problem, thanks for the feedback and congratulations on the projects you are working on! How are they going? Is this method working well for you?
The most informative video I've seen. Seems like you have a talent for Teaching. Great Job
Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it! I'm not the greatest teacher but I have acquired a lot of knowledge in this trade. I am more than happy to share that with people who want to learn here on RUclips. ✌
Not that I do much of this….but enough…just at our home…and I’ve learned a LOT from you! I’m in NH lakes region fringe…hardest material to find is washed 3/4 stone.
Enjoying! Keep ‘em comin!!
I have heard that pretty often here on RUclips. I'm surprised how hard it is to find for some regions... It is everywhere around here, You could find 3/4 clean stone very easily. I am grateful for that for sure. ✌
Kyle & Ben are best in business..I love all his videos
Thanks, I appreciate that!
dudes! Thank you so much...Imma bout to do a side yard Paver project and was struggling so hard with what to use for base layer, when to lay the weed barrier, and what to do after the weed barrier. Just liked and subscribed and will use your vids to teach myself how to do this right the first time!
Our pleasure! Glad the video was helpful and thanks for the support ✌
Appreciate all your videos, its super helpful! Here in the Pacific Northwest, I've been having a tough time finding 3/4" crushed clean stone for base prep. Do you think it would work if I subbed it for 5/8"inch clean crushed stone?
Outstanding explanation 👍
Glad to hear it, thanks for the support! ✌
I just subscribed to your channel. Great videos!
Sweet, thanks you!
Nice work boys.👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thank you, this one was an awesome project ✌
Ok to all the subs, please like this comment if you all believe Benny needs his own fan base. Seriously his one liners crack me up. I can watch a whole series just waiting for the comments. Christian the two of you are just awesome 👏 love your work. I think you should pull a separate post with a compilation of all the one liners 😂
🤣🤣 I love it man, couldn’t agree more! Benny and I have been best friends since 9th grade. His one liners have never ceased to amaze me. 🤣 There will be a compilation someday, trust me!
My 5yr old son and I love your videos. For me, your videos and explanation of processes provide both inspiration and direction. The challenge (proposed by my wife): take an area next to the house, that had been destroyed during multiple waterline fixes, and turn it into a useable patio. This project ended up being a GIGANTIC solo project that was worked on during weekends and spare time. After 400 sq ft, and 4 1/2 months later, the first tier is finished. That said, some small corrections to the retaining wall are needed, when I start the second tier next spring.
I have watched almost every video pertaining to polymeric sand, that you have posted. You mentioned, to not be nervous about oversaturation when watering the sand, that the water needs to completly saturate the sand throughout the joints. Yesterday, was a warm sunny day (I am in West Virginia), and we were not supposed to get rain until tonight. So I applied the poly-sand and finshed watering it around 7:45pm last evening. 1 1/2 hours later, unexpectedly it started raining. It rained all night. This morining I checked the joints and the sand did not harden.
I used Alliance Gator G2 Intelligent Polymeric Super Sand
What should I do? What would have caused the sand to not set properly? Is it posssible that I oversaturated the joints?
I had that happen recently too and a few spots where the sand bubbled up for some reason, but ignoring that, after a few days, it hardened right up.
Thanks for the awesome feedback, glad you guys enjoy the videos! So just like the comment above mine, when the sand gets over saturated by rain…. You just need to be very patient, I have had poly sand take 1-2 weeks to harden up simply because of rain, very shady areas or even when the weather is cool….
I would recommend just waiting it out, it will most likely just need some time. ✌🏻
@@gssuper1438 thank you for the perspective
@@TheChristianHardscaper What a relief.... Thank you for replying. Your advice and perspective is greatly appreciated. It is good to know, that there is a pretty good chance, that the $300 worth of poly-sand I used is not completly ruined.
No problem at all, just give it some time and see what happens. The G2 poly seems to be a little slow on set time, especially when rained on while setting. But I think it will be all set 👍
Hey love you vids. Have a random question for you in reference to polymeric sand. I’ve finally got the base down and about to drop the screen 3/8 down but I’m worried about doing now given the temps have dropped to 35 and below here so wondering if I should hold now until after winter as I’m worried that the polymeric sand won’t set properly if I drop it now at these temps - any thoughts?
I usually recommend holding off on the polymeric sand until you have a minimum of 3-4 days in a row of above 35- 40 degree nights. If the water in the sand freezes overnight, it can certainly impact the way it sets and could ruin the application. You can definitely lay the pavers, but make sure you have a good stretch of weather to poly. If not, yes, wait until the spring. ✌
Hey man! Love the series. Would love to get in contact to talk more in depth about quoting customers and things to account for. Materials, labor, rental considerations. Thanks!
Great video and explaining things thoroughly, it is greatly appreciated. Just some food for thought.. All of the data spec sheets I have read from the various manufacturers for installation and use of the open base system with resin joint compound indicate using a non woven textile barrier fabric and avoid woven barrier fabrics due to its high propensity for moisture retention while installers suggest using geotextile woven fabrics. Again fantastic video and explanations. I am trying to understand if this can be used for landscaping pathways and large landscaping areas in substitute of sod using 4”-5” base and a 1/2” - 3/4” topping of crushed fines?
I get that comment pretty often about this fabric not allowing water through and I know what all the manufacturers say about it... But what I can say to that is I have used it under and up the sides of every hardscape install for the past 5 years. Not one project has had drainage issues (hundreds of installs). the non woven fabrics are not strong enough to help stabilize and they break down much sooner in their life than this fabric. Stabilization and separation is key in any Open Grade Base install. This fabric is the best option for that. It may not drain as quick as a non woven fabric but still drains non the less. Experience is key with things like that and I have a lot of that with this fabric...
Thanks for your awesome videos. Your strait forward explanations and step by step info allow people like me to tackle a DIY patio install. I am in SO RI and am installing a 24’ x 30’ patio. I’ve completed the excavation (11”) and have compacted a thin layer into my mixed clay/gravel base. I will backfill with about 7” of clean 3/4” stone. My question is do I need to compact before the final screed layer? I understood you did not need to compact but this video talked about compacting in 6” lifts. Thank You!
No problem at all, thank you for the feedback! So the short answer is yes. Once you get to your final height with the 3/4 stone and it is raked out smooth, it is definitely helpful to run it over with a compactor to settle everything in nice and tight. You will see that it does not compact much, but it will tighten up all the stones to help prevent shifting. Then you will be good to lay screed material, if the height changes due to compaction, you can make up for that with your screed material up to a 1/2 inch. If you need more an 1/2 inch, add more base rock and compact. I get asked sometimes if I compact the screed material, I do not. Once the top layer of your base is compacted, you will not need to compact until you polymeric sand the pavers. ✌
Thank you for the quick reply and guidance. I plan to put down the cloth and base then wait till the spring to compact, screed and lay the pavers.
@@rickstgermain9823 Good plan, leaving the excavation open for the winter will help compact / settle the sub base naturally. Then you will be good to pick up on it in the spring! 👍
Love your work, guys. What type of cement do you use for the edge pavers? Any type of Portland cement or a specific type?
Nice, thank you! We use regular 80lb pre mixed bags of concrete. You want the gravel in it for extra strength. ✌
Hey @Christian Hardscaper , Thanks for your informative vids. I'm from South Africa, and we don't have our hands readily on polymeric sand over here. Would you still recommend open grade if you were jointing with normal fine sand? I would like to use open grade as I can see the advantages, however, I'm concerned that it will seep down into the stones after final compaction and over time? many thanks
No problem, I am glad the videos are reaching that far! You certainly can use regular sand in the joints, however, it will migrate down into the base little by little... Eventually though, it won't as much. So yes, you can use it, just expect to have to add sand maybe 1 or 2 times a years depending on how much it migrates...
@@TheChristianHardscaper thanks for your response , I appreciate it !
We do this same exact process with open graded base but most of the time we put in an exfil pipe for the water to escape out of the base….the woven fabric is not permeable enough in our opinion without an exfil pipe. But we also almost always use nitro sand too…so almost all the water that hits our patio ends up in the base…anywho…excellent looking work!! 👍
How do u direct all the water that seeps into the base to the exfil pipe? And where does the water go from the exfil pipe how do to lead it out under the patio
Thanks for the feedback, it is nice hearing from another hardscaper! On jobs with very heavy clay / hard pack, I agree with adding extra drainage solutions like you are saying. We have a lot of rocky / sandy sub soil around my parts which I 100% believe all surface water from a patio / walkway will naturally permeate down and never have any issues. But a 700+ sq ft patio with nothing but heavy clay content as a subsoil, yes, we definitely find a way to help divert base water away from the base material.
Thanks again for the feedback man! ✌
There a few different ways to divert the water from the base. A very common method is a pipe that leads to a (Dry Well) which is a large hole that was excavated and backfilled with clear 3/4 in crushed stone and lined with fabric. This hole catches extra water and helps it drain into the subsoil even more.
Would you suggest installing the perforated drainage pipe around the perimeter at the lowest depth of the base material where it meets the soil or underneath the base material itself? I deal with heavy clay soil in my area and drainage is always an issue, it was great that you brought this up in your video. Appreciate your response in advance and keep up the awesome work!
I'm looking to use open grade base to maximize drainage under a stabilized gravel driveway - can I do a 3' level (compacted every 6') base?? thanks
"You got a shake weight at home?" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 hilarious dude
🤣✌
Thanks for the explainer! Is there a reason why you go with 3/8" chip rock and not 1/4" for bedding layers?🤔
No problem, the 1/4 in crushed is actually very hard to find around me... Some areas have it in abundance, some don't.... The 3/8 crushed is very common here. ✌
I'm having an excavator come in and prep my patio paver area and a garden area, where an above ground pool was taken out. The grade needs to come up about a foot in the paver patio area. Would you add dirt and compact to bring up the grade and then start your geotextile and open grade base? Or can he make up the difference with 3/4 crushed stone? Meaning the main patio paver area would be sitting on about 18 to 24 inches of the 3/4 crushed stone. Love your videos and the ease of explanation. Oh yeah, and Benny!
You certainly can use clean 3/4 for the entire backfill, just be sure to compact in 5-6 inch lifts. You will never have water issues and you will never have shifting / settling issues, that is for sure. Thanks for the support and I'm glad the videos helped!
Hi, how many force kn got ur compactor?
Thanks for this helpful video! I have a question… what is the minimum depth the base should be? Thank you!
Your welcome, around here we excavate a minimum of 8 inches below the proposed top of paver height.
I live in South Carolina on the coast so we don’t have hard freezes and rarely even get close to subfreezing temps. That said, we do get a fair bit of rain.
I’m in the process of building a permeable paver patio and have been instructed that 4” of 3/4” base rock is sufficient with another 1” of 1/4” bedding stone. My soils are a sandy loam and readily accept and drain water through the soil column.
Is there any reason I shouldn’t use a somewhat reduced paver base versus your recommended 8-12 inches?
Thank you for reaching out and I am glad to hear you are going with open grade base! So when I say 8-12 inches, that includes the thickness of the pavers and the 1 inch bedding layer. So on installs with sandy subsoils like yourself, we will dig closer to the 8 inch side. That includes 4-5 inches of 3/4 stone, 1 inch bedding stone, and pavers are typically 2 3/8 inch thick. On heavy clay sub soil installs, we dig closer to the 12 inch mark. Giving us 8-9 inches of 3/4 stone, 1 inch bedding material and the 2 3/8 inch paver.
So long story short, 4 inches of 3/4 base rock in your situation will be just fine! ✌
I’m building a paver stone parking pad next to the garage. What do you Recommend for base when cars will be parked on it?
So I would use the same method with a couple extra steps... First you need 10-12 inches of base stone, compacted in lifts of 4-5 inches. And in between those lifts you should use (Geo Grid) to help stabilize the stone and prevent shifting / sinking. So more base stone and geo grid, that will help the pavers stay strong with the weight of vehicles on top of them.
i like your videos.a question for a doit your self small walk way, i only need 3/3 crushstone( va state)to lay paver??
I would still recommend a few inches of base stone (3/4") then an inch of 3/8" bedding stone
Thank you 🤙
@The Christian Hardscaper I live in Fort McMurray, Alberta lots of Freeze/Thaw gets down to like -40F in winter and up to 100F in Summer.
If I have hard clay and I’m excavating out more soil to level out my Side Yard from a 10% slope down to a 2% slope… do you recommend backfilling with larger rock FIRST?
Like 3” or 4” stone and THEN putting down my 3/4” Clean Crush Stone Open Grade Base?
Do you have any vids on using *larger rock to fill in greater voids?
I’m assuming it’ll be cheaper to use 3” or 4” (or even 2” whatever you recommend), than filling it all up with 3/4”?
Hey there, this method is excellent for very cold environments. Just dig a minimum of 10-12 inches in your situation to account for the heavy freeze cycles. And you can use some 2 inch crushed stone for the bottom few inches if you would like but you do not need to.
@@TheChristianHardscaper thx!
I live in california, Lincoln to be exact... we dont have snow, but there is a season where it rains a lot...majority of the year is hot though... my place is also located in a backfilled community (i supposed), so it is a bit rocky...now my question is, shall i use open base?
I have a small question, because I'm a bit confused, and I want to succeed my installation next spring. For 3/8 rock bedding, is it better to compact it or not?! thank you a thousand times!
I do not compact the bedding stone, it does not help. Just screed the 3/8 bedding stone loose, lay the pavers and then compact the pavers when you do the polymeric sand. ✌
Super 👍👍 👍👍👍 😻😻😻😻😻 👏👏👏 👏
✌
would you recommend that same sub base on a same style paver patio in Southern California?
Absolutely. I recommend this method for any paver project, anywhere. I truly believe it is the best method out there. I switched to it a little over 4 years ago. In used to use the traditional compacted dense grade for base and sand for bedding. I will never go back to that, this method is far better in so many ways.
Here is another base prep video I made that goes into a little more detail, not sure if you watched it yet... 👉ruclips.net/video/ChaJe3JqD6I/видео.html
Hello, I'm in NJ and the stone supplier naming of the rock is different. They seemed to get confused when I asked for 3/4 clear angular crushed. the supply here has 3/4 trap rock. It appears to be about 1/2 to 3/4. Is it the same as 3/4 clear crushed. I also see 3/4 limestone. Thanks
Hey there, that sounds like the same stone to me. The name can differ depending on the area you live. Limestone is a type of stone. Around here we have mainly granite and bluestone. Some areas have mainly limestone... Doesn't really matter what type of aggregate you use, just that it is 3/4" and that the fines have been removed.
@@TheChristianHardscaper thanks
Would it be cheaper to buy bags of stone locally since delivery is usually pretty expensive? If so which store bought stone could be used as a base? Do you always have to have a base? The ground I'm working with hasn't been disturbed since it was built back in 1930.
It is pretty much never cheaper to buy it by the bag. I would say unless you need a very small amount, have it delivered.
Hi Christian, I’ve watched most of your videos and it’s helped me lots. I am DIYer and doing my own walkway in Australia. It’s been hard to find landscape Geofabric but I think I have found it. It’s a weaved geotextile plastic. Problem is water doesn’t seem to permeate through it. I placed it over a bucket and poured water and it just sits on top. Is that normal?
Hey there, I'm glad the videos have helped! The geotextile fabric I have will hold onto water if you do something like that too. But when you put stone under it and backfill with stone over it, the woven plastic strands will stretch out and open. Then the water will be able to permeate. But when the fabric is just suspended and filled with water, the strands lock together and hold water. I would not be too worried ✌
Unfortunately I can’t get 3/4” angled stone (“screening” as it’s called here) that is clean. It’s frustrating.
Its not important, right?.@@TheChristianHardscaper
man I wish I had your truck and skid steer..lol Down here we normally use #57 and #8 on top leveled. some cases we go 10 to 16 inches deep, because we have severe flooding problems here.
I love that truck! But the skid steer is a rental…. Can’t wait to own one myself someday. Open grade base is the way to go, occasionally we go over a foot as well. But only if it is heavy clay sun soils. We generally have nice sandy/gravelly subsoil here in Massachusetts though. Our big thing is freeze thaw cycles…. ✌🏻
Hey I've been following your guides for my project, I have a question that I've looked into a lot and I've had mixed results. My patio is 80sqft and is touching my driveway in a spot thats notorious for water to accumulate. The driveway co crete is 2 inches thick followed by 4 inches soil and then what looks like a couple feet of dense grade. If i go open grade should i have a sort of barrier other then the geotextile to seperate that soil from the open grade or would a french drain flowing the opposite direction suffice? Thanks a lot
When I meet my open grade base with any other soil / material, I use geotextile on the bottom and up the sides. That is all you need in the majority of circumstances. The open grade base itself will usually fix any water issues, but if you want to incorporate a french drain, that will do nothing but help for sure. Good luck! ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper thanks a ton for the reply, this question has been my main concern since starting this project and hearing it from a pro Is very reassuring. Keep the videos coming man you're a wealth of knowledge and they're very entertaining 👏 cheers.
No problem, thanks for the support of the channel!
The only options I have near me is clean 3/4” limestone or granite (super pricey). Will clean limestone (keystone) work out will it tamp into dust and defeat the purpose?
3/4 clean can definitely be pricey... But if you can swing it, it is the best option and will pay off in the long run. I don't deal with limestone really ever, here in massachusetts we have bluestone and granite in abundance.
I'm doing a 600sqft raised patio with seating walls, any potential pitfalls that i should look out for and avoid? Or do you have a video on something similar? Thanks. Appreciate your videos very educative.
Oh nice, here is a link to a project playlist that will probably help the most 👉🏻Front Yard Patio...?
ruclips.net/p/PLo6xdtKoDxWYOeZEuNRzRs_OB_9DkXKW0
Thanks a lot
Are those base and bedding stones the same? How deep do you have to lay each of the stones before laying the pavers?
They are different size stones, here is a link to a video I made which explains the backfill method in much more detail ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper thank you 😊 🙏
You mentioned that the level 5 is used for driveways. Would you still use open grade base for a driveway?
Yes I would use open grade base for driveways. But I would do it a little differently than I do for foot traffic applications. Like using 12 inches of stone, backfilled and compacted in 4 inch lifts. Also I would use 2 layers of geo grid. One layer at 4 inches and one layer at 8 inches. That extra compaction and stabilization from the geo grid will support the weight of vehicles over time. Also, a very important thing most overlook with paver driveways is you need to use a thick paver. Most patio and walkway pavers are 2-3/8 inches, for driveways you need a minimum of 3 inch paver. But yes, I believe open grade base is far superior for driveways as well ✌🏻
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Question maybe its a area difference but I'm curious as to why you use a Woven Geo Textile over a Non Woven Geo Textile as my understanding is Woven are non permeable kinda defeating the 3/4 clear bases purpose could just be an area terminology as well
I am not sure why people say that, I hear it once in awhile too... But woven geotextile is permeable and I use it because it is stronger than a non woven fabric which gives the base more stabilization. ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper Thanks for the reply ! having a project done and I was really debating which to have them use, I think Woven Geo requires it to be choppy not smoothed and taught which is probably why the way you do your base works so well as u have the 3/4 clear in the subsoil causing rifts in the Weave
Exactly, the pointed edges of the stone really helps open the woven plastic strands. 4 + years of installs using now, no issues whatso ever with drainage. 👌
Hi! Do I need to lay something under the base so that the grass does not grow?
You only need to lay the fabric under the stone, that's it ✌
@@TheChristianHardscaper Thank you! what is the name of this fabric? found in other videos about technology but nowhere is there a name or a photo of the packaging
How long have you been using this method of base? I’m guessing no call backs?
4 years now, almost 100 installs, no call backs. Others have been using it for longer though.... I love it and I will never go back to the traditional way of dense grade / sand.
very nice works. ..excuse me how thick the first base is
Thanks, 1.5 inches of stone under the fabric
@@TheChristianHardscaper thanks. My friend
@@armandocortes8719 no problem ✌
Where can we buy that type of base.. synthetic is just wayyyy too expensive
Are you talking about the stone or the fabric?
@@TheChristianHardscaper stone
I would call around to your local landscape supply yards. Ask them for (3/4 inch, clean, crushed stone) some places call it #57 stone.
@@TheChristianHardscaper thank you! I’m working on creating patio right now 💜
Nice, good luck! It’s very rewarding to put your hands to this kind of work. ✌🏻
I'm not sure I follow your logic with the "correcting the base (or subsoil)" concept. I don't see how compacting the crushed stone on top of the subsoil corrects anything. All you're doing is essentially working the crushed stone about 3/4" (or less depending on the size of the stone) on top of the subsoil (as you illustrate at 7:22). This won't make the soil "accept" any more water than if you didn't compact the 3/4" because you're not changing the profile of the subsoil. Water will pool in the 3/4" indentations and around the stone and then either sit there (if it's heavy clay) or drain through the subsoil if there's more organic matter or slowly drain away in the direction of the slope, or both. My point being, if the subsoil is clay (seemingly the case in a lot of places), the only way to truly correct its drainage is to change its profile by working in some type of organic material (something you obviously won't do for projects like this). Everything else I've watched so far has been very helpful. This is not criticism just an observation as you talk about this process in a lot of you videos.
When I say (Correct) the sub soil, it means to help it accept water easier. If you were to compact the sub soil itself, it would flatten and tighten the soil, making it harder for water to penetrate it and permeate. Compacting 3/4 into the sub soil will absolutely help it accept water easier. Doing that also gives the fabric we use a bed of 3/4 to lay it on which also helps open the strands of the fabric to allow water to drain better. And clay soil will take much longer for water to permeate through but it still will. That is why we dig deeper to allow water more room to slowly permeate.