Is the Red Talon GOOD or EVIL in State of Decay 2? (The Fox Talks State of Decay Episode 2)
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2022
- Is the Red Talon GOOD or EVIL in State of Decay 2? (TFT 2)
This is a question that gets asked periodically. The Red Talon is one of the major factions that have organized into a legitimate force in the apocalyptic lands of State of Decay 2. They can be polarizing however!
Unlike the Network, which at worse is seen as weak, the Red Talon is seen as powerful but... possibly dangerous... maybe even evil!
Fox takes a look at some of the core arguments for why the Red Talon is an evil organization and gives you his take before going into how Undead Labs should NOT handle the militant organization!
Like this video if it was helpful or entertaining and subscribe to my channel for more State of Decay 2 content!
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I think the people are good....but the organization leadership might have ulterior motives
Fox talking about stress think about daybreak, I feel stress when going against wave and wave with just me and 2 bots so yeah I see many snapping under pressure
Network = News
Red Talon = Military
News will put down anyone during a crisis, Military is doing what would be considered "Martial Law" in their own way during this crisis
One thing to note: in the Heartland DLC cut off by an unknown faction from the get-go and now you save that one guy and he just so happens to be from an unknown faction... And that Faction being Red Talon could be Evil if you think about it. But yet their still helping from Zombies so could be the Renegade verses Paragon
Yes, Red Talon could have an “agenda” but also simply having a set of goals isn’t necessarily an evil agenda either. In the fictional scenario, the only way to actually return society to normal would be to have distinct goals aside from basic survival and moving from base to base whenever resources run out. Resources will eventually have to be manufactured again and large utilities(dams, power grids, oil fields) repaired, maintained and defended.
I think red talon is evil in the same way the brotherhood of steel is, good intentions but with an “ends justify the means” mentality.
The BOS was never good but in the elder Lyons chapter. They were always after one thing, and never were good about that thing as it can cause serious problem to the people around them
Good intentions? Not so much, more like "zealots" hoarding technology
@@Merthis_Real And yet that same technology was what brought the end to civilization. We put too much faith into technology that once it started going haywire it was too late. The Brotherhood of Steel have a noble cause, in that its keeping tech away from everyone instead of letting everyone have tech and a repeat of the great war happen again. There are less risks and less unnecessary deaths that come with keeping it locked up in a bunker with people that actually know what theyre doing. I'd happily lay down my life for the Brotherhood if that means I get a 100% certainty that my loved ones are protected from the same tech that killed all of us 200 years ago.
I respect Elder Lyons decision to help others, but what will happen when they decide that they no longer need their help? What will happen when they get their hands on tech and their true colors come out? Armageddon is what will happen. Armageddon at the hands of the ones you just saved from a behemoth 2 weeks ago.
@@yaboideathwish but… they had access to tech. We know this. They had access to liberty prime once fully activated. They had access to the pentagon, an extremely important and useful military base in the dc area. They didn’t decide they no longer needed to help because, as is the way that Lyons ran things, they didn’t think there would ever be a point that help wouldn’t be needed at least for a very long time. The only time I can think they ever got dictator-y is with the distribution of aqua pura, but that’s just how to dispense it in a world like that without letting it get destroyed or abused.
This question also brings me back to the live action sod2 trailer. The first group got a sick person and were just trying to survive so they raided a medical enclave to get supplies, but had no evil intentions otherwise. But to the medical group, they were seen as terrible villains, so on and so forth.
It’s all based on perspective. In war the other side is always evil and home side is friendly by default.
@@darrylbailey76 lol literally the last of us 2
That was a great trailer. Thanks for the reminder.
I totally want a background war between the two factions
I think ultimately Red talon is good, what i see is a large organization too large that it cant control all its members. Many people have different personalities which would explain the trader, warlord, builder, sheriff, that's why i would think more of the ambitious?(don't know if that's the right word)/ eviler? characters would come into their folds. I think they would get the benefits like resources, and training then they would be off on their own or with a small squad left to their own devices/schemes/agendas. Other than that haven't seen too much evidence pointing to the negative sides of Red talon, they do try to help and i don't recall when they have been hostile towards the network or in general aside from the crazed red talon. even then i have my suspicion i think i saw something in the flavor text that made me doubt their affiliation with Red Talon, but i don't remember it was in one of my playthroughs can someone check( if Possible). That's my view anyway.
To me The Network seem too good to be true whilst RT is human nature and as you said you probably have different pockets of RT which makes it more convuloted.
Just like in TWD with Negan's Survivors. (The Savours?)
His LTs have their own schemes which sometimes go against Negan's code.
There's always corruption in groups especially in large groups a really good example is negan and his saviors, he did not know what his own right hand man Simon was doing from the walking dead
@@METALFREAK03 exactly!
What about the missions where RT "recruited" some survivors but just leaves the last one to die because they disagree? Or the murderers with Echo series weapons which are connected with CLEO and RT by extention. In addition to the alleged labor camps they run. I bet if their "goals" were good, then they wouldn't have to do that much convincing or covering. In fact I'm not entirely sure what those goals are, which is odd because you'd think it'd be plastered in front of every recruit to propagandize them like military cultures normally do.
@@ghosthunter2938 there is NOT always corruption in larger groups it is allowed to exist because of weak/inept leadership. As a leader, you are 100% responsible for you group and "not knowing" is a weak excuse to not take responsibility for "supposed to know"
If any faction is evil it's the Echo labs imo atleast. If you look at the radiant quests you get Both the Network and Red Talon sorta do the same thing they might call you up to deal with infestations , plague hearts, and the like. Echo labs always wants you to do a test then they will give you items that can infect you or can harm yourself or others pretty easily. This even applies to the crazed red talon soldier. For some reason this "red talon soldier" has no red talon weapons. They carry echo lab weapons or generic firearms which seems suspicious like why are they carrying around a gas grenade and some mpk rather then a rifle.
That's an interesting idea. Why does the crazed RT Soldier have an Echo gas launcher? He also carries an echo combat knife typically.
Yeah I thought about that as well basically chemical warfare.
Echo Labs is mysterious. They make some badass weapons though. And who's to say that Echo Lab employees themselves gave that crazed RT operator the weapons? He could've found them in an abandoned lab and went megalomaniac.
Red Talon initially belonged to the Westen corporation as a private security entity, in the Lifeline DLC, we can appreciate the different entities that made up the Westen family in the trucks in Danforth, in fact, the corporation helped the army to maintain the flow of supply during the outbreak, we can hear this in one of the missions, among many other details, at some point, between the 1st game and SoD2, the head of the Westen family dies, and that is when his wife, Teresa Westen, takes over command of the company, we know this from the transmissions in SoD2, this explains why they are better equipped and supplied, Sasquash belonged to a secret branch of the army, then he joined Red Talon after the failed Drawbridge operation. Uff a lot of hidden lore...
Saw someone already make this comparison, but I see them like the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout...
BOS in fallout series actually is considered evil. And i despise them lol.
I don't think the red talon vs network equation is necessarily good vs evil. It feels more like the struggle between order and chaos, where red talon represents a totalitarian style and the network represents a democratic style. Neither of those two are inherently evil, they are just opposing ideas of governance. And yes, it would be fun to see more conflicts between red talon and the network.
I heard over the radio they said that when the army pulled out and gave up trying make a cure that red talon stuck around and are still researching a cure to the zombies
My view on the second part is 100% agree. The comparison to mass effect paragon/renegade is purrrfect
I like RT over net. They seem much more effective at combating zombies. Network should maybe just try to be a kind of Red Cross type deal n let RT do what it does best. Besides it seems RT approach is my kind of thing. As a great fictional character once said “Peace through power!” - Kane
Network is like a coalition of allied communities.
The network builds communities, the Red Talon takes down zombies, both are necessary, but function differently. The Network aids in base building, trading, and supplies, QoL stuff which are rare and hard to come by. The Network is not combat focused, but that doesn't mean they aren't doing anything, they are working a different path.
Definitely enjoy these videos.
My thoughts on Red Talon being evil ended up being just like yours: No. if for no other reason than there just isn’t enough information to able to say “Yes, they’re evil”.
I think what would be really cool is a story based prequel spinoff of state of decay where you play as a red talon soldier at the beginning of the apocalypse
Initial opinion is that red talon or network can't be exactly defined as good or evil but more like two different approaches to survival.
They're pragmatic and focused on their goal.
Well the question is only valid if you were put in that situation.
RT, I believe, are just militaristic whilst The Network seems like a utopic type of community "network" BUT I would be more akin to say The Network have more nefarious undertones than RT. RT are straight up, let's rebuild and too rebuild we need XYZ.
A bit like a leader type, RT are warlords or sheriffs whilst The Network is Trader and Builder types.
@@METALFREAK03sheriff types seem way more like the Network, as they help other communities without judging them
Meanwhile war lords are definetely RT
@Merthis_Real who would've thought the pre-plauge PMC/Security Firm would use force.
Great takes and the mass effect comparison is spot on. Both have the survival of humanity as shared objective, just differing methods.
Also Nigel Meredith addresses the Cami Baez claim - even if something bad was going on at that facility it was a local issue, not a Red Talon operational directive.
I don’t know how well people would accept that reason even if it were true. I think people would see it as a copout.
I have a community of 10 and 7 out often of the 10 are Red Talon Operators. It’s a pretty kick ass community!
I built a team of 12, 6 of which are red talons. I've got a Demolitionist, hacker, plumber, driver, firearms maintenance guy and a builder, I've been really selective with everyone, they've all got different looks and voices. Good variety. Even a handful of my normal survivors are on par with my operators. Badass team indeed.
@@wafflegenie3924 i built a all blood plague survivor and red talon community
I love this video Fox. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Red Talon is a lot like the Brotherhood of Steel. They represent the same things, have the same setting and generally follow the same principles. You can disagree with the "the ends jusitfy the means'" approach, but you can't pretend their actions haven't been geared towards a pro-humanity goal. Not to mention, they've both been bloody effective thus far
I like that the morality of the Network vs Red Talon has been left sort of up in the air, much in the same way that we're still talking about Imperial vs Stormcloak eleven years later.
The brotherhood has a logistical base and a willing following, unlike RT.
I’ve always thought of red talon as this
There’s good people in red talon people who would gladly sue for the civilians in there care
But there’s also the people who understand if there the ones to rebuild society they have power
I’m not very versed in the lore of SOD only played the second one planning to play the first but from what I’ve seen there’s some good just bad leadership that seems out for themselves
I know this isn't related but I always wondered what happen to the other characters from the Lifeline DLC like Alicia Hawkes or from the story mode of the 1st game like Diane Montgressor after she left Stg. Tan and his team to fend for themselves and what happened to Job Wilkerson
Great video very thought provoking nice one
Never given it much thought before. Besides one has to play daybreak to get influence points to purchase red talent agents or call in a Trader in order to buy Daybreak items. They seem to provide a bigger service then the network trader that shows up now and then with a valuable asset of the satellite dish gives two extra outpost.
I truly hope ul watch attentively the third part of the "fox talk". Going closer to the bt view of lore where there's many shades of grey instead of simple cartoonish black/white.
Things rarely are so simple and many evils are done with good intentions and sometimes a simple evil can refrain a far worse one. Exploring different stances on morality seems better suited that a simple separation of good/evil.
That's what they should do. I don't think there's any value in making RT evil. I think it's a total waste of potential.
On labor camp, since the location is in the US, that labor camp can just be working from home without hazard pay
💯 I have a feeling the hazard pay doesn't help much in comparison to the work anyways.
The look and backround of the red talon remind me a lot of the CRM republic from the walking dead universe
With less mass genocide of a whole ass city.
I don't think Red Talon is evil, that said, the very idea of the strict order that they represent leaves too much room for tyranny. Like in Tammi's case.
If ranks were eliminated and a collective decided instead, it at least in theory relieves pressure on the leaders and on the people they protect.
Discipline leads to tyranny and democracy leads to disarray. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
@@abasis.baruti9819 perhaps a balance between the two is the best?
Considering the world went to shit in the game, order is a must to do the initial buildup of new society.
When I think of red Talon I think of the remaining military in the movie 28 Days Later and if you seen that movie you know how they were.
The other thing about Kami Baez is that if she was a no one that escaped the red talon work camp then how is she like on the radio in almost a leadership role so fast after
The Network is very quick to bring her in and give her a platform to broadcast off of.
@@GitGudFox a little sus if you ask me 👀
@@thomasmckaig909 The coal factory is a bit off. Like Kami just lied to the world about Camp Erie. How does Twain and Kami know alot about the zombies before Red Talon does? I had a note one time from a dead Network women that talked about Twain and Kami talking about zombie experiments. That one really want me to kill Twain and Kami for what they have done to the world.
@@zane5805
Twain and Kami have done nothing to the world, hell are you on about?
@@marcoboscarol2420 I don't know. Notes been random if I'm lucky when a Network Agent is either dead or turned. Least I know how everything started but can't do anything. Got me thinking of a story I'm planning on Wattpad. Still need to figure out how to start it off.
I'll watch this later... but commenting to help ya out.
Kinda off the topic, but I wish they could add a bit more dialogue and conversation after we unlock the RT settlement achievement or have a community full of RT agents. Like they would say to each other something different rather than the generic chitchat “ah my aunt used to take me there and we would go fishing all day etc”. Instead, they could talk about “hey dude did you hear about the squad they sent to download CLEO data got wiped out? That went horrible” or “how’s the situation in AO Trumbal Valley? My bud was ordered to investigate the signals or retrieve some weapons from there” this way it can make RT feel more unique from the civ characters and let them act/behave differently when hanging out with their own fellow Talons, also letting out some clues for us to see what they were up to.
I think they could advance the dialogue on the radio in general.
I know I'm late to the party on this discussion but, I'm of the opinion that there are multiple sub-factions within Red Talon. Especially when you consider the way Meredith and Sasquatch react to the Kami's allegations of the work camp. Another thing that causes me to think there are multiple sub-factions is that there is a possibility of recruiting an anti RT operator who takes every opportunity to insult RT when possible.
It doesn't seem likely that Red Talon will go full evil since UL specifically said that they wanted to make it ambiguous where they stood morally.
You missed a possibility with that red talon workcamp mention at the start - Could also be that the survivor was a criminal. What if red talon pick up evil survivor that prey on others and put them in a workcamp/prison ? In that scenario they would be the good guys and the network would be harboring a criminal.
i like that thinking.
maybe a future subject is what heppaned to the people of heartland after the story, we know mickey, izzy, doc, santos, and chaves made it, and then is tessie who I think was not in heartland, so that could be an interesting thing to see the FOx's pov on that.
I see the Red Talon as a faction that has good intentions, but not necessarily good or evil. They are just trying to control chaos. I say it also depends on the person's interests rather than Red Talon as a whole. Perhaps one or a group could be bad, but not all of Red Talon.
I think you're spot on again with TFT. Both RT and the Network have the same goal: that humanity thrive. What differs is the approach taken to pursue the said goal. Of course there are bad people in RT, but I'm sure it's the same for the Network, only it wasn't shown (yet). I'm hoping that SoD3 will be story rich, so we can have some answers.
Sorry for all the texts but who are echo lab the ones doing the trials ? I don't know
Echo Labs seems to work for the government. Our best information is from Hoffman talking about how the labs are all split up into groups focusing on specific objectives.
Red talon is like the division, some agents are evil, some are good
1st wave was good initially before going rogue. 2nd wave is good.
I like to think they aren't evil, but still cruel. Like they have a backbone, they're living in a zombie apocalypse. There's no need for friendship and the power of love, they have skill and professional weaponry and training. As for how they are, they are people of absolute necessity. Meaning they'll do anything necessity for the win, even if their methods are cruel. In the end it gets results
So like a fallout idea: choose who wins and who loses, or team up to take down the greater evil. Alr I can live with sum like that, not many games do it anymore. Hopefully there's a mechanic level that in SOD3.
UL sort of teases this whole potential conflict between the Red Talon and Network, but it never materializes.
I think it was a huge waste. If they had no intention of advancing the story in 5 years post release, they shouldn't have told that story to begin with.
In my own lil mind I think there is some sort of in fighting in the red talon since they are not an official government unit they are just mercenaries and ex military and some recruits too, so not everyone will controlled that's why we see rogue red talon soldiers running around.
I think sod3 will focus more on that the conflict between red talon and the network and it maybe up to the player which side they choose.
I imagine every faction has infighting. Even simple things like retail work at a store will have political jockeying with the leadership and what not.
I honestly love Red Talon as a faction, I've been building up with their gear and operators since I got back into this game.
Also, how are you insta executing zeds in the video? I guess I still have some tricks to figure out!
Certain melee skilled when completely maxed out can do that.
@@GitGudFox Thanks
I guess the simple somewhat representation would be Red Talon ≈ Warlords | Network ≈ Sheriffs
I don't think I'd go with that because both represent order. The Red Talon is about everyone in a hierarchy where you follow the orders of your leader while the Network is about people voluntarily working together in a sort of loose alliance.
7:47 or to put it in a better discourse, Assassin's Creed 3 versions of Assassin's vs Templars, do you value absolute freedom vs absolute security?
Bit late to the party here, but it probably should be noted that the quest to kill the crazy Red Talon actually specifies in the text that they are an "Ex-Red Talon" mercenary. Meaning they are no longer affiliated with RT, they might've stolen some equipment and gained training, but they are NOT acting under orders of the RT brass.
I agree.
I want to see more drama, conflict, and perhaps a love story between factions, but also more factions each with an agenda of their own.
like: Red Talon for anti zombie fighters who obey an agenda all their own.
Network for people who know how to build bases with gardens and farms and medicine to keep your people healthy.
Army for the reamnants of the old national army who dreams of bringing back the old world and focuses on heavy equipment/armored vehicles and differences from the red talon by being not as technological but basis it's self on strength, armor and reliable firepower.
Also their should be a shadowy council of manipulative villans that is pulling the strings of everyone and is probably responsible for the zombie outbreak in the first place as a means to gain power, or their could be some sort of "evolved" zombie organization with an actual mind capable of thinking and planning that could be behind organizing the zombies as the real enemy or some combination of the two.
Hey fox been a luker lol been so busy I have been watching streams and videos but quiet lol as for red talon and the network I don't think either is good or bad they just have different ways of dealing with the problem red talon taught to fight and mussel their way and network more of a knowledge based way red talon wants people to stand behind them and they will provide for you where as network is more of we will help you do it yourself I hope that makes sense. I hope to be more talkative during streams soon just been swamped so watching and not interacting has been my life. Hope you are doing great see you next stream
Conflict threw differing methodology it far more interesting compared to "good vs evil"
I don't think they're "good" or "evil", in that world I don't think either concept really exists anymore. What I do know is that Undead Labs should make Red Talon and The Network a Leader Type for the Legacy missions. Introduce new facilities for each one or at least some Network facilities. But yeah back on topic, I think Red Talon isn't evil they're just willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, "the ends justify the means" type of mentality.
Honestly, both Red Talon and the Network have reasons to be hated, but at least Red Talon is doing something about the zombies. All the Network does is instigate conflict and just yap on the radio. I also 100% agree with what you said about getting rid of the zombies first, then start investigating. We can all start pointing fingers and calling each other names once the real threat has been eradicated. Id rather have an authority figure take over and me feel protected than be free in a world where everyone you know might be a traitor. Besides, even if Red Talon does turn out to be "evil" then we know what we are fighting against. We know how they work and what their training is like. Think about it, if they really wanted to they could steamroll through the apocalypse wiping out every enclave in America or even the world. They have the weaponry, the logistics, the planning. All it takes is one bloodthirsty leader to make them go haywire.
red talon and the network will probably work together against a common enemy like an unknown zombie mutation or even a third faction
Not sure who they will add as a possible third faction. Maybe the government.
Hey Fox me and my dad are opposite sides of the Courts on this one I'm pro Red Talon and he's Network. You have put into a video everything I have said to my dad to convince that Red Talon needs to exist
I don't know about Red Talon, but I think Sasquatch is evil. In Day Break, he sits in his Military Chopper, high in the air safe from all zombies; while you struggle with the Blood Plague Zombies and Juggernauts. Then he tells you off when you lose!
🤣😆😂
He also seems to have a bit of a God complex, and talks condescending to you like your just a pawn in his little game.
I think the parallel with politics is very intentional writing, and The Network and Red Talon are both put in place to contrast each other without giving a preference to either. Kami has just as valid a criticism is of the Red Talon (forced labor camps) as Meredith does (The Network is unable to support as many people as quickly as Red Talon can) and neither are "right".
I would like to say that it's pretty interesting how they've been designed. Red Talon is a strong faction with an ideology, but The Network is more like a strong ideology with a faction. The Network is both very hands off and spread out very wide, while Red Talon are very coordinated and actively involved.
Overall it's a very interesting dynamic and I expect they will continue with the dynamic like it is now. What I don't want to see is for them to become so polarized that neither The Network nor Red Talon seem reasonable - it's good as it is now, with neither of them being an extreme representative of their side of the spectrum.
Kami's attacks on Red Talon are only valid if they're true. If they're false, then she's an agent provocateur.
@@GitGudFox That's a fair point.
I'm kind of hoping we don't get any definitive answer on whether or not she's telling the whole truth. It would be a distraction from the real issues they present.
I don't consider the soldiers evil but maybe the ones in charge have a one track mind military style that makes them look evil, Sometimes the Network can be fishy,it seems too good,like your opinion Fox
The plot could be thickened with one of Meredith's guys completely missing the vision and just turning into a warlord who takes everything with any means, fighting some Network point person who isn't good either, using propaganda and "freedom" of speech to alter the reality in the minds of masses?
These are truly evil in the scope of both order and freedom. However, both are also unaware of the fact that they are totally missing the vision of their respective factions.
I think the "turned evil" thing happened to Cerberus in Mass Effect 3. There were good and bad parts of Cerberus, and you definitely dealt with the devil in the Illusive Man, but there was at least a little reason. I know he was indoctrinated, but the hard left off the evil cliff in the third game was rough.
It wasn't a good story either. The Illusive Man and Cerberus are supposed to be the Renegade to the System Alliance Paragon. They aren't supposed to be good or evil, just different ideas.
There was no value in turning TIM and Cerberus into villains. ME3 already had enough villains.
Cerberus were bad guys in Mass effect 1, thats why Ashely flipped her shit when she found Shepard working for them in Mass effect 2. I never played 3, but that betrayal was coming when you knew their history from ME1
@@nobletenshi7659 "Bad" was a matter of perspective. They were xenophobes who believed in human supremacy. Yeah, being a racist is bad, but if you were a humanity-first Renegade Shepard, they were right up your alley. Indoctrinating all of them was both lazy writing and made for lazy gameplay (the Reapers are here and we're fighting generic human enemies? Really?!)
It's brotherhood of steel vs the minutemen
Yeah, there is a comparison to be made there.
What you think about the Ex red talon, are they even red talon?
Well, it's in the name. If they are "ex" Red Talon... they're not Red Talon.
In my opinion they are ok
At the end of the day network and red talon are sides of a coin they have different purposes
One cuts the zombies the other helps people
End conclusion Network:good
Red talon:Good(+they got the looks)
The Network vs Red Talon is Community vs Combat. Network tends to want to help rebuild community and survivors, Red Talon wants to take the fight to the enemy. Neither are a wrong approach to take, and neither are absolutely correct either. It's more about what kind of path will you take to rebuild and restore humanity?
I kinda see Red Talon vs The Network as less about good vs evil, and more like Warlord vs Trader.
Well I’d say the Network are more than just traders. They are kind of like the original USA Colonies, an alliance of separate states that work together and confederate but are still separate.
@@GitGudFox True, but I meant more like the general philosophy of your warlord leader and your trader leader.
Good or bad i love them
Red talon and the brotherhood of steel have the same agenda in my opinion and the same beliefs, for example the brotherhood in fallout 3 wanted to restore the water supply to the capital wasteland as well as vanquish the super mutant threat and return the wasteland into a peaceful place, but the brother hood has some questionable flaws like hoarding technology and power armor and there organization is so big and complex that factions began to form in the brotherhood like the outcasts who left elder lions and the brotherhood all because they didn’t like how elder lions put more focus on restoring/helping other groups and factions in the waste and instead of focusing on collecting technology and killing the super mutants and ghouls of the wasteland. Some may also question there methods like in fallout 4 they want to kill all ghouls even ghouls who are not farel, they even force settlements to supply food for the brotherhood troops but the player can choose not to allow that. In short the brotherhood wants to help or protect humanity and just like fox called the red talon anti hero’s the brotherhood of steel are also Anti hero’s for there one in the same.
Good or bad, they are highly trained, structured and equipped - and on top of that, they are actively on the offensive against the zombie apocalypse (Daybreak/Redtalon recruitment into player communities) can we say the same for the network? they may not have the moral compass the Network has, but they have boots on the ground and in this instance, sacrifices have to be made for the greater good... the Network MAY be better people, but Redtalon ARE better soldiers, realistically the 2 factions should be united by a common enemy, the ZEDS, but some faction fights would make for some good gameplay, just dont make it linear- give us the option to unite or fight- just my take on it - enjoyed the video!
I think they also need to introduce a faction that more clearly leans towards "evil" as well. I think Red Talon is the moral grey, middle of the road alignment.
@@GitGudFox i agree whole heartedly man, in my opinion thats exactly what the game is missing.... imagine if they went deeper with a cannibal faction... i know they have they have that in sod2 with the faction that sells rucksacks of "mystery meat" after doing a few missions but if they went deeper into it that would be pretty eerie and creepy..... or like a People's Militia who are more militarized then the Network, but not as well trained as Redtalon, but have more numbers then Redtalon - who claim Redtalon doesn't have the common folks best interest and that what the network is best at is spilling propaganda via radio broadcast from behind the safety of their walls but aren't working towards the solution - or like a dark religious fanatical faction who claim it was "the lords will" for humanity to be wiped out, and are acting as "Vessels" to see his will through and wipe out what's left of the human population, using the bloodplague to create biological warfare to use on other factions/communities - implementing base sieges using hostile factions would also be great in my opinion.... Undead labs could go many different directions but i do agree with you 100%
If they added a more "evil" faction, I'd still want it to be capable of making an argument for being good.
I'd add in some kind of hyper militaristic organization that's objective is to eradicate the zombies at all costs. If you have any exposure to blood plague, they kill you. They leave burned towns in their wake, and they don't care if all of the supplies have been taken or destroyed in the process for anyone remaining.
If you have any useful skills, they abduct and conscript you into their organization. If you're a useless weakling, they ignore you.
They are not here to save, only destroy, but the key would have to be that they are doing the best out of anyone else in the world. The areas they leave behind are effectively free of zombies until some wander in from the wilds, but even they are unbelievably small in number compared to before the purge.
I think that's the kind of organization that's needed.
let me resume, for the labor camp
in a zombie apocalypse you have a group willing to shelter, feed, protect you, provide medical assistance, for you to work (hard ), well im in, because alone in the wild be definitly would be thousands time harder !!!!
Well, half my forever community is RT, & they're frakin awesome. I never saw them as evil at all.
honestly fox in my opinion it just depends on your outlook sometimes it is good sometimes the bad. though if i had to give a reason i'd say taking from a different game the whole halo spartan program etc. no-one is/was concerned why there is/was a off based version of the government maybe the government created the zombies cause of high population and need a way to get rid of it fast that's why they were semi prepared and semi not.
So survival isn't an issue of morality. Red Talon isn't known to be evil currently depending on their hidden agenda and leadership. However historically speaking they are prone to military takeover which means the entire faction is on the back of both strong and morally good leadership. It also means that given a few hundred years, they wouldn't exist in the same form because you can only maintain that power through force. The network on the other hand is build on trade, autonomy, and lending logistics/information to other members. Meaning that the Network would probably exist in the same form as long as they have continuous living members. Also creating society is more effective with an egalitarian outlook since you have the option of negotiating instead of just forcing. Also Red Talon's main advantage is militarily (at least in theory) but all their prior experience and training won't matter in 2 generations. Military logistics will quickly dry up at the rate they perform operations meaning they will need a secure manufacturing base which you can't get with forced labor and won't get from a purely militaristic outlook. Network will only improve while Red Talon is destined to fail without shifting idealogies. Red Talon isn't evil, just less good morally and practically.
I am not familiar with any Red Talon military takeovers.
I think they had a mission to follow and now that the outbreak has going to the point of craziness they are just trying to survive same as the network. We are all caught in the same mess, so now we all most use are resources to survive. Not like umbrella in resident evil that created the situation to take control over the world.
My opinion was they are not evil, just another faction that rules by force and that is not always a bad thing.
Shepard is an excellent example on this topic to show reaching the ultimate goal only by different methods.
Anyways, here are my two cents:
There isn't enough evidence to prove Red Talon is absolute evil organization, The Sanctuary in TWD is more evil than RT in many ways. There are shady business indeed but we cannot rule out that is only a small part of RT. In a Zombie apocalypse, there isn't absolute right or wrong since our world of way has been changed or destroyed, what people can do is simply survive, make it through for another day. Moral compass become less concern because threat from Zeds are always high, ppl should be more flexible especially in ZA.
The Network is more like trying to keep their principles of the 'old days' even in ZA, it takes them way more efforts to do so because there will be time their agents cannot do what they are tasked for just because of keeping their moral in high ground. RT is way more straight forward but I can imagine some of them have gone too far to the rabbit hole and simply become one of those Rouge agents we see as in the kidnapping mission.
Imma say not really. They do bad things like forced labor camps etc, but ultimately they strive for the same goal as the Network. They just have different methods to achieve that goal.
That's why the Network has tried to foster positive relations numerous times as heard in radio transmission.
Edit: on the note of Red Talon and Network having different goals I would say thats not entirely accurate, Red Talon seemingly wants to create a large scale "safezone" where they can return order and law to the people. They had a whole operation they described as "putting a wall between us and the zeds" ultimately that operation fails but that doesnt seem like they want to kill all zombies, at least its not a short term goal. Furthermore if given the chance I think the Network would ALSO choose to eradicate all zombies and return the world to how it was. I think they just believe that goal to be impossible whereas Red Talon believes it to be eventually possible.
A couple points:
Red Talon doesn't believe in negotiating as much as force. Meaning they will only negotiate if they can't force an issue. The Network believe in negotiating but are not pacifists. Red Talon is using supplies/facilities from the old world meaning that there is preexisting information on all of it and eventually it will all degrade beyond repair. Network prefers invention and innovation within it's communities and that process will only improve over time and with better trade/supply convoys.
I think RT is very strong currently but will decline sharply after the first few generations. Network will gradually improve across the board but are very fragile right now.
If they go to war then RT will 100% lose. The Network can find all of their critical infrastructure on a basic MAP. The Network is already keen on rapidly relocating. The Network can easily rebuild from the shared plans and trade of info and supplies among members while RT couldn't repair any damaged equipment of buildings. Unless RT has free access (without maintanence) to geosynchronous sattelites, communications sattelites, close air support, and fully fueled IFV's, they aren't long for this fictional world.
RT has access to what seems like actual military equipment like helicopters, so they also could have tanks, APC etc. We have no idea what kind of armory the Red Talon has.
I considered Red Talon always as the ruthless group, that are a mix of so many different people. You have the authoritarian people, the "ends justify the means" people, the scumbags who can entertain their dark sides, because it won't be questioned. You have everyone who values violence, beside the ones who can't stand authority. You probably will find all the people who hate to think for themselves and hate to make decisions even more - they are probably the main group in the labor camps. You have the ones who worship a strong hand. The ones who run all of this are probably pure pragmatists that use the resources they have to fight the war the way they deem right. They turn a blind eye to the occasions who go overboard even in comparison to their convictions, because its a price they think they have to pay and because it does not matter much in the grand scheme. Take the likes of the Saviors from TWD and crossbreed them with military and "blinded" leadership. During a crisis of this magnitude, I would not call them pure evil, but regard them as people who deserve no pity if karma strikes back at some point.
Everyone knows Lilly is the final bad guy mastermind in state of decay. She never dies in state of decay 2 even though she has lupus and is running the "network" in the sequel.
She'll probably be the final boss.
I honestly feel SoD3 needs to really touch up on a lot of this. Feels like SoD1 was much more rich in story than SoD2.
Sure we got more story material through Heartland but still. There needs to be more on the story.
It honestly feels like they didn't work much on the lore this time around.
I honestly don't feel like UL has the skill to really deliver. They're not a tiny indie company anymore, and they really blew it with the post release content for SoD2.
So they got bigger... they were acquired by MSFT and have MSFT money support, and they couldn't make anything out of it.
Red Talon seems like a cross between the BoS in FO3 and the Enclave in all the games. They seem to be ex gov/military (enclave), but also will help survivors with their superior firepower and skills ala FO3 BoS.
The Network seem more like a hippy group where everyone bands together and overcomes obstacles because of some shared community. I feel like in the zombie apocalypse, they would not be a useful group overall. Given the choice between the two, I’d take RT as a ally every time.
Cammy sounds evilish in her radio updates, I feel like she’s not a trustworthy person from how she’s portrayed by the voice actor.
Yeah, Kami sure is slanderous and preachy. you can say that even freedom can be evil, if used the wrong way.
You can come across dead Red Talon operatives with a note that says it's all a lie, proving that Kami is more legit than not. Red Talon is most likely just a large organization with multiple factions that all have their own approaches and goals. The Lieutenant seems like a great guy, but that other woman telling everyone to stay out of their way or else is likely not.
The Network also suffers from differing opinions, but that's to be expected because of its decentralized nature.
I don't think the Red Talon organization is evil. I'd still need more information on the red talon to say one way or the other, but I'm all for looking out for myself and my own.
the concept of good and evil never made any sense to me. There are only victors and looser, and the victor will preserve their side of the story.
For the future, instead of a standoff between Red Talon and network, i see a potential conflict with the old regime. Because, especially in SoD2 it became clear, that the zombies and Blood Plaque where man made, and used by someone big. IzzBee hinted with CLEO that this too is part of the Goverment.
Also, I can imagine quite good that Red Talon and the Network will cooperate in the future. they won't unite or something like that, but maybe build a give and take relationship.
The Reasons should be obvious: Red Talon specialiced in combat and extermination. So, they might become a partner for some special kinds of weapons and gear + do security service.
But their strict regiment isn't something everybody agrees on. Also, it sounded like they put everything below the "Great goal" wich results in low comfort and harsh labour.
Thats where the network comes in: they are specilized in living and getting by, so they are the partner for basic surving, and luxury stuff
I don't think red talon is evil but in game you do have to kill "rouge" red talon people who take over enclaves. If I had to pick between the two of them I think the network is better. They have the best facility and building items most of the time I'm happy to see them, red talon mostly just has weapons most of which I don't use. i like the their people double in advanced skills and that's nice but that's ultimately it. If all you do is kill zombies but don't rebuild humanity you shape your whole existence to killing zombies you just are not that useful outside of that. I don't view them as too versatile basically, But evil no, just different in the way they approach the zombie problem. Lastly we need more information on both of them to make an ultimate judgement call. But with the way I approach the game I barely deal with them I don't hire their agents, don't use their weapons, I will use 1 or 2 of the faculty mods but not really, I mostly just trade with them but once you are established you get more from allied enclaves.
Well, Red Talon does have an objective of "restoring the country's infrastructure" so I think they build and destroy.
That argument for labour camps has been used throughout history glad that not in this country.
Maybe a better question to ask is why would you want to indulge in such an obvious ideological Rorschach Test like this anyways?
This seems like a pretty basic analysis of literary elements in a story to me. You do a lot more complicated stuff in English Literature.
Yeap, they both have their flaws. RT can be little bit too autheritan and tough but yet again, as you mentioned, they allow you to recruit their soldiers, they trade with others for actually really good gear, only thing good from NW is Satellite dish. Other than that, B'sides Twain speaking about how goverment stole his bacon and eggs which is fun and all, they don't seem to do much to keep folks safe. Also i have a smol theory. The crazy red talon mission, could it be that he just were sent out on a mission and since RT is more militaristic, they just swooped in a enclave, said "you'll come with me, we need to do this stuff and i can't do it alone, come with me, you will be rewarded afterwards if you live but you will do as i say or imma shoot ya" Plus only good advise NW has that can be counted towards vital, is to have a infirmary and workshop. Other than that, their broadcasts are rather ill informed/not very much needed and Twain does resemble one of those who think they're the man behind the microphone. Of course, i may be wrong and anyone's welcome to say if i said something wrong etc. I guess as Fox said, NW is just afraid that if RT succeeds, the old world order may come back. Which actually will be more benefictial to humankind. Because most people are still sheep and they need to be guided. I get the "live and let live" and "you do you" stuff from NW, but it won't save mankind. But i'm not anti NW or anything, for me their just existing and that's that. Also, god damn sasquatch and Lt Meredith both have given actually good advice in their broadcasts. When i started sod2 back in 2018, i was familiar with the game, played first one quite a lot but i got some really good tips from their broadcasts which i was able to utilize as well.
Twain is a blowhard.
Here’s my hot take.
If any of those workers see what the player characters in the game have to go through, they’ll be glad they’re mining coal instead.
Red Talon should be in charge of eradicating the zombies and the Network needs to help the survivors survive.
Kami Baez reminds me of some of the kids that didn't last a whole shift at basic jobs. not just kids, you'll know the type. anything you could construe as actual work is the coal/salt mines to them.
I would fully believe RT dissidents or someone claiming as would do such a thing. People are humans, and these are kind of extreme circumstances.
She wouldn't be found anywhere near such a place. even if she was in the compound she would naturally gravitate to the areas for physically useless people. she wouldn't have seen it.
Personally. I don't find Red Talon or The Network to be "Evil".
I find the Network is as its name suggests, a network. A group of survivors working together to help each other and thrive in the apocalypse, setting up bases and outposts, rebuilding society is the mess that it is.
Red Talon i find have a similar goal, to rebuild society, setting up bases and outposts.
The only difference is that Red Talon is more militaristic and brute forcing through zombies. Like we can hear on the radio.
While The network is trying to bring communities together to create a regional expanse. They have to deal with zombies, sure and aren't wiping them out as a goal, but they are helping people thrive and protect themselves from the zombies.
Personally, I'd like to see, hopefully in State of Decay 3 whenever that comes out, is Red Talon and The Network helping each other to take back America and help communities, especially since from the trailers, there are infected animals.
At the end of the day, Red Talon are still survivors, like the network. They are working to survive and rebuild, protect themselves and their friends.
And i would like to see more story like maps in soD2, like trumbull with maybe a network and or red talon base you can help and interact with. Like another RT FOB, or another large community, like Oasis, but not destroyed and the network is present.
I think that would be the dull, predictable storyline where people get along to vanquish the zombies. I don't think any interesting stories can be told through this.
Red Talon is necessary in a world that has turned into a world like this. Back to nature. Might makes right type thing. Philosophy bends the knee to Pragmatism.
Nothing can bend the knee of philosophy because even "Pragmatism" is a philosophy.
"Pragmatism is a philosophical tradition that considers words and thought as tools and instruments for prediction, problem solving, and action, and rejects the idea that the function of thought is to describe, represent, or mirror reality."
Red Talon is like Batman.
More like the Punisher.
@@GitGudFox Touche!
I think red talon is generally good, i dont trust the network, i dont remember red talon giving me a quest to kill ppl (i may be wrong) but i remember the network giving me kill missions
Your right red talon doesn't give you a mission to kill people but you might encounter rogue ones and they probably do it themselves
What if our survivors are the bad guys?
I thought they were good. Are they good? What about Sasquatch?
The Red Talon is practically a box of puppies compared to the Fox Republic 😂
I believe Red Talon are the good guys. I have a FB group and Discord for anyone who wants to join.
Red Talon group on FB? Sounds cool!
i just see both of faction are trying to survive just like us but they bigger than us, even you can call them for resources. with very low price than just buying at ally enclave. that already prof how strong the establishment. but like we always know you can be the biggest when you have someone as big as you. and red talon in the past are different than red talon in future, chavez mention it. maybe it because red talon in future are act like military rather than mercenary
It's why I hope that Undead Labs doesn't give up on the Network vs. Red Talon story.
Good? Evil? Doesnt matter when you look that badass!
Maybe the black color makes it harder for zombies to see them.
Red Talon is a morally questionable faction yes but are they evil? I would have to say no. Everything they do is in some way to combat the zombies which benefits everyone and while it may be extreme sometimes and morally wrong (if we are to believe Cami); it is a means to achieve overall good ends.
So, i'm only bringing it up on the surface level on purpose... but there are parallels for the network and red talon in at least your and my more immediate real worlds so... i think the smartest and most admirable thing Undead Labs HAS done with SOD 2 story is not totally picking sides, and respectfully displaying both methods of approach. Letting the player ultimately control the specifics of what, when, and how because everyone with sense knows the zombies are the real problem.
i feel like the network is better analogous to an actual network. they move things and information in a chaotic environment. red talon makes a chaotic environment into a more ordered system of productive excess. They would naturally operate almost in harmony to rebuild a post apocalypse world. If the story develops in a direction other than that or the opposite(which would be a tragedy) it wouldn't make-a any sense to me.
I don’t think of either the Network or Red Talon as good or evil. They both have their own agendas and that’s okay. We’re in a situation where the normal rules don’t apply so our communities make the rules that allow things to flourish. Even our characters make morally gray choices (we go kill enclaves on the word of a stranger we just met). I think a war between the two factions would be amazing as it is more about ideologies than being right or wrong. After all, history is written by the victors not necessarily the good guys.