Enjoyed the video. I've made loads of interior/ exterior doors in a small 1- 2 man shop here in good o'l Halifax, NS, Canada. It's reassuring to see other professionals come to the same conclusions that I have thru 'self directed' studies/ trial and error. Split panels and a layer of insulation- new twist on old school technology. It works! In addition to this, a quality urethane finish that remains elastic throughout it's lifetime is really important (to me). BTW, the reason I found your channel is I'm seriously considering purchasing a Felder saw/spindle combo machine (despite the cost!). Thanks again.
Hi Gavin, Thanks for watching, and the feedback. Our weather can certainly do a number on doors and windows here in Canada eh! If you are after a Saw/Shaper the Felder is a great machine. Another one i would definitely look at too is the SCM. I have no experience with SCM here in Canada, so can't speak to their service, but their machinery is great. Typically a little cheaper than the Felder offerings too.
Ah yes, i just replied to another comment saying just that. The European doors are beautiful the way they seal, as are the windows!!! Thanks for watching, & thanks for the comment.
Thanks for watching @TateLandis, The top and bottom of the door gets primed and painted the same as the rest of the door. The jamb however, was stained and then a clearcoat applied. The end grain on the bottom of the jamb gets a wood preservative applied days before being assembled and stained.
You could look into Scandinavian doors, since the climate is equal with Canada. Im Danish, but wooden doors are more what I see in Finland, Sweden and Norway.
Thanks Peter, i should do that. Not sure if there is much of a difference with the exterior doors made in Germany and Austria, i have spent some time there and am a little familiar with their practices. I'm sure if i search i will find something on RUclips! :)
It is a testament to your sense of quality work that you ask for advice to make sure "they don't fall apart in 10 or 20 years". Can't have that kind of shoddy work, eh! 😆
I'd be giving it all up if i knew my work would fail in under 20 years! You know what it's like in Europe, things are built to last several lifetimes, & that's what i think we should all strive for.
With this approach, what was the thickness you ended up with for the inside and outside wood panels? I like the idea, and agree that even a modest amount of foam is worth doing. 3/16 of poly-iso foam has an r-value of about 1.2, which is more insulation than a full inch of most wood species.
The overall thickness of the door from memory was 2 1/4" or about 55mm. Again, going from memory, i think each panel was about 7/8" or 22mm thick. I'm sure it helps having the thermal break, and also just allows the outside panels to move independantly of the inside panels.
From a novice woodworker that seems like a very good idea to me, but re-sawing foam does not sound like much fun. Nice Job great videos keep them coming.
Thanks Nate, Actually cutting the foam is really easy. I've done it before, but never this thin. Even so, it cut quite straight & only took 2 passes through the sander to get it perfect. Thank you for watching.
And now I have a question for you! What do you think about an exterior door using stave core construction , but with the staves being closed cell rigid insulation instead of laminated wood? I have a supplier, Robert Bury, that sells a foam core plywood. I presume they have overcome delamination. I have experience with a vacuum press and wonder if solid veneers(1/4"?) on the face and solid blocking on the edges would give the stiles/ rails enough strength? Higher R values w less weight and less material cost, right?! Anyone doing this? Thoughts?
Interesting! I think for a slab door it might work very well, however i think perhaps 1/2" of material on the foam might be a better option. Maybe 1/4" ply, and 1/4" face veneer? So you would still have 3/4" of foam to reduce the heat transfer and weight. With a frame and panel door, i would be concerned that there wouldn't be enough strength in the joinery. It sure would be nice though to find a way of making solid core doors lighter! I just installed a 90x44" door that was 2" thick, with only 1/4" of foam in the middle of the two panels. Essentially i made the slab with stave core stiles and top, mid and bottom rails then made 2 panels that fitted up between the rails and stiles like there were just horizontal boards top to bottom. The darn thing must have weighed 200#!! It sure does operate beautifully, but wow, hanging that thing by myself was a bit of a mission! :)
@@brycecomerwoodworks So, have been doing a fair bit of research into laminating wood to XPS foam. It seems that a glue we use regularly in the shop is designed for the job- Akfix PA 370. It's a quick curing polyurethane glue and we like most everything about it except the fact that it foams up. But, foaming is manageable. I don't see anyone on youtube playing around with this as a door construction method, so we will start running some trials. We'll try out Titebond 3 and Gorrilla Clear in addition to PA 370 and see what works. If anyone has 20 years recorded research now would be a gret time to share it, lol!
@@gavinfeargrieve4874 I'd love to hear how you get on. Good luck with it. It sounds very interesting and should make a big difference to the thermal transfer and weight of the door.
They would really have to be kicking it hard to bust them. Probably easier to simply break the glass on the side lights in the jamb if you wanted to get in.
Thanks for watching Donald, This one is red oak & will be painted. I expect it will get knocked around a bit as it will see lots of wheel chair traffic. Lots of good material you could use where you live. Western red cedar is a timber i'm sure you're very familiar with there in the PNW. If you don't expect it to get knocked about too much, it's a fantastic timber for wetter areas, just soft. :) Doug fir is also pretty good if you can get some nice old growth.
Thanks for watching @justcruisin109, yeah not as important in Oz for sure. I know of doors i made almost 40 years ago there that are still perfect. I'm sure though, that that would not be the case if the same doors were here in Canada! :) Stave doors are definitely a good way to keep things from moving. The door in this video isn't made with stave construction for the rails and stiles, but built up with laminations of the material like a glulam beam if you will. Still very stiff and holds its form well over time. The top has 8 lights, and that's another difference (although less nowadays) than in Australia, as each of the truly divided pieces is a double glazed unit, giving the door better insulation values for the climate here. This particular door will be used as wheel chair access, so had a low profile aluminium threshold with drop seal that drops down on the threshold when the door closes. (You have to keep those drafts out when it's -20 deg. C outside!)
@@Dazza19746 One of these days i'll build a door with Accoya! That's good to know about the lack of movement. I'm pretty much in the middle of nowhere, so getting my hands on some Accoya isn't as easy as i wish it was. But if like you say there's virtually no movement, maybe i have to try harder! :)
@@brycecomerwoodworks I think it’s so slight it’s literally negligible. Also because of that the paint finishes last 3-4 times longer as you don’t get the normal failure at cross grain joins ( virtually every one for us guys) And you’ll never need to worry about having to plane doors down when they swell! Highly recommend
Absolutely. This one is a little different in that it has a low profile threshold, so it will have a drop seal on the bottom. For the rest of the door though, it will get just one seal. That's where i believe the European style of entrance door wins, with their double air seals.
Enjoyed the video. I've made loads of interior/ exterior doors in a small 1- 2 man shop here in good o'l Halifax, NS, Canada. It's reassuring to see other professionals come to the same conclusions that I have thru 'self directed' studies/ trial and error. Split panels and a layer of insulation- new twist on old school technology. It works! In addition to this, a quality urethane finish that remains elastic throughout it's lifetime is really important (to me). BTW, the reason I found your channel is I'm seriously considering purchasing a Felder saw/spindle combo machine (despite the cost!). Thanks again.
Hi Gavin, Thanks for watching, and the feedback. Our weather can certainly do a number on doors and windows here in Canada eh! If you are after a Saw/Shaper the Felder is a great machine. Another one i would definitely look at too is the SCM. I have no experience with SCM here in Canada, so can't speak to their service, but their machinery is great. Typically a little cheaper than the Felder offerings too.
You can also look into how doors are made in Europe, they have staggered rubber joints on the perimeter for extra air tightness and sound insulation
Ah yes, i just replied to another comment saying just that. The European doors are beautiful the way they seal, as are the windows!!! Thanks for watching, & thanks for the comment.
I would be curious as to how you would seal the top and bottom of this door
Thanks for watching @TateLandis,
The top and bottom of the door gets primed and painted the same as the rest of the door. The jamb however, was stained and then a clearcoat applied. The end grain on the bottom of the jamb gets a wood preservative applied days before being assembled and stained.
You could look into Scandinavian doors, since the climate is equal with Canada.
Im Danish, but wooden doors are more what I see in Finland, Sweden and Norway.
Thanks Peter, i should do that. Not sure if there is much of a difference with the exterior doors made in Germany and Austria, i have spent some time there and am a little familiar with their practices. I'm sure if i search i will find something on RUclips! :)
It is a testament to your sense of quality work that you ask for advice to make sure "they don't fall apart in 10 or 20 years".
Can't have that kind of shoddy work, eh! 😆
I'd be giving it all up if i knew my work would fail in under 20 years! You know what it's like in Europe, things are built to last several lifetimes, & that's what i think we should all strive for.
With this approach, what was the thickness you ended up with for the inside and outside wood panels? I like the idea, and agree that even a modest amount of foam is worth doing. 3/16 of poly-iso foam has an r-value of about 1.2, which is more insulation than a full inch of most wood species.
The overall thickness of the door from memory was 2 1/4" or about 55mm. Again, going from memory, i think each panel was about 7/8" or 22mm thick. I'm sure it helps having the thermal break, and also just allows the outside panels to move independantly of the inside panels.
From a novice woodworker that seems like a very good idea to me, but re-sawing foam does not sound like much fun. Nice Job great videos keep them coming.
Thanks Nate, Actually cutting the foam is really easy. I've done it before, but never this thin. Even so, it cut quite straight & only took 2 passes through the sander to get it perfect. Thank you for watching.
And now I have a question for you! What do you think about an exterior door using stave core construction , but with the staves being closed cell rigid insulation instead of laminated wood? I have a supplier, Robert Bury, that sells a foam core plywood. I presume they have overcome delamination. I have experience with a vacuum press and wonder if solid veneers(1/4"?) on the face and solid blocking on the edges would give the stiles/ rails enough strength? Higher R values w less weight and less material cost, right?! Anyone doing this? Thoughts?
Interesting! I think for a slab door it might work very well, however i think perhaps 1/2" of material on the foam might be a better option. Maybe 1/4" ply, and 1/4" face veneer? So you would still have 3/4" of foam to reduce the heat transfer and weight.
With a frame and panel door, i would be concerned that there wouldn't be enough strength in the joinery.
It sure would be nice though to find a way of making solid core doors lighter! I just installed a 90x44" door that was 2" thick, with only 1/4" of foam in the middle of the two panels. Essentially i made the slab with stave core stiles and top, mid and bottom rails then made 2 panels that fitted up between the rails and stiles like there were just horizontal boards top to bottom. The darn thing must have weighed 200#!! It sure does operate beautifully, but wow, hanging that thing by myself was a bit of a mission! :)
@@brycecomerwoodworks So, have been doing a fair bit of research into laminating wood to XPS foam. It seems that a glue we use regularly in the shop is designed for the job- Akfix PA 370. It's a quick curing polyurethane glue and we like most everything about it except the fact that it foams up. But, foaming is manageable. I don't see anyone on youtube playing around with this as a door construction method, so we will start running some trials. We'll try out Titebond 3 and Gorrilla Clear in addition to PA 370 and see what works. If anyone has 20 years recorded research now would be a gret time to share it, lol!
@@gavinfeargrieve4874 I'd love to hear how you get on. Good luck with it. It sounds very interesting and should make a big difference to the thermal transfer and weight of the door.
How strong are the panels,if they are fastened with nails. If someone kicks will the panel fall off?
They would really have to be kicking it hard to bust them. Probably easier to simply break the glass on the side lights in the jamb if you wanted to get in.
Good idea. What kind of wood are you using? I'm about to build an exterior door for my cabin in the Pacific NW and this video is timely. Thanks!
Thanks for watching Donald, This one is red oak & will be painted. I expect it will get knocked around a bit as it will see lots of wheel chair traffic. Lots of good material you could use where you live. Western red cedar is a timber i'm sure you're very familiar with there in the PNW. If you don't expect it to get knocked about too much, it's a fantastic timber for wetter areas, just soft. :) Doug fir is also pretty good if you can get some nice old growth.
Australian watching here so not so important for me but interesting nonetheless. What other techniques do you use - stave core? Cheers
Thanks for watching @justcruisin109, yeah not as important in Oz for sure. I know of doors i made almost 40 years ago there that are still perfect. I'm sure though, that that would not be the case if the same doors were here in Canada! :)
Stave doors are definitely a good way to keep things from moving. The door in this video isn't made with stave construction for the rails and stiles, but built up with laminations of the material like a glulam beam if you will. Still very stiff and holds its form well over time. The top has 8 lights, and that's another difference (although less nowadays) than in Australia, as each of the truly divided pieces is a double glazed unit, giving the door better insulation values for the climate here. This particular door will be used as wheel chair access, so had a low profile aluminium threshold with drop seal that drops down on the threshold when the door closes. (You have to keep those drafts out when it's -20 deg. C outside!)
Accoya all the way. Pretty much ZERO movement or rotting
@@Dazza19746 One of these days i'll build a door with Accoya! That's good to know about the lack of movement. I'm pretty much in the middle of nowhere, so getting my hands on some Accoya isn't as easy as i wish it was. But if like you say there's virtually no movement, maybe i have to try harder! :)
@@brycecomerwoodworks I think it’s so slight it’s literally negligible.
Also because of that the paint finishes last 3-4 times longer as you don’t get the normal failure at cross grain joins ( virtually every one for us guys)
And you’ll never need to worry about having to plane doors down when they swell!
Highly recommend
@@Dazza19746 Ok you've sold me on it! :) The next paint grade door i do i will definitely have to source some Accoya. Thank you for the advice!!
and don't forget air- or at least wind-tight.
Absolutely. This one is a little different in that it has a low profile threshold, so it will have a drop seal on the bottom. For the rest of the door though, it will get just one seal. That's where i believe the European style of entrance door wins, with their double air seals.