I own a Mark VI. I was surprised how much the VII sounded like the VI, although a tad buzzier and brighter, yet still had the trademark "centered" sound. Altissimo projects more on the VII, and is just a tad sharp--I imagine overtones are easier. But I preferred the sound of the VI. BTW, you're one helluva of player! Nice job.
I heard it the same as you did, but note other comments say the MVII is darker. It is very subjective and I could not say that I would be able to tell the difference in a blinded comparison.
I heard it like you did. But, I can't pick one's sound over the other. They are both great horns, IMOP. BTW, my own tenor is a Mark VI 84xxx from late 1959.
I've been looking around for a great vintage sax and tried a few VIs, but only one VII and stopped looking. For me, the VII has more resonance, more detail in the sound, the VI and the VII are both truly great horns Excellent recording and very nice playing. Thank you!
Thanks for this comparison. It's a topic that doesn't get enough attention. I just had my Mk VII alto (267452) overhauled and it returned to me just this week. It's 42 years old and I'm the original owner and I can say with great confidence that it never played so well as it does now. There were a number of defects that came with the horn that I never realized were there, some I only recognized because we have an internet now to help me learn how it should be, and some I didn't know until it was taken apart for overhaul. One of the two biggest defects was the bell bow ring was cracked. I could see a gap and remember the gap when I first got it, but had no idea that it could be fixed, or that the ring was in fact broken. The other defect is the left hand pinky table was aligned badly, making it really hard to use. After this overhaul, I will never agree with anyone again that the Mk VII is an inferior horn. The design is great, but I guess it's true that Selmer's build quality was lacking.
They both sound great. I think that the Mark 7 had a slightly brighter tone. I have been playing a Mark 6 for almost 10 years now, and I really enjoy it.
New subscriber, I played a VII tenor for years on the road, six nights a week, 50 weeks a year. It was a great horn and a real workhorse. I regret selling it. The only reason I chose the VII over the VI was the high F# key. Currently playing an older model Yamaha custom Z, Theo Wanne Durga 9, Fiberreed carbon medium.
I have three tenors, a worn out mk6, 66r (Mauriat), yts 875 (first gen) and I need to downsize to two horns inordinate to get a budget for a yss82zr (soprano) . I am thinking about either ditching all and getting two used Yamahas (yts 875 ex and yts 875 and yss82zr) could you tell me what made you go for a 82z tenor?
You made both of them sound great. Splitting hairs, I think the Mark VI has more character in the sound, but the Mark VII has a slightly brighter sound. Like I said you make both of them sound great and it comes down to how the air blow through and how it feels ergonomically. Great post.
Great video! I have a 282xxx Mark VII, and I wouldn't trade it for any VI. Not in as good of cosmetic shape as the one you show here, but exactly the same build. The one difference is the previous owner installed starburst resonators in it, which I knew nothing about, however, playing it next to several MK VI's from all over the decades and I don't hear a difference that makes me want a VI. I am curious to hear my horn with regular resonators but it will never happen, love it just the way it is. A VII, set up by a great tech (mine was done by Roberto) is always on par with a VI, for MUCH LESS. I think it comes down to ergonomics and if it the VII's bother you or not. They are fine with me, in fact I prefer them to most VI vintage ergos. The only other thing I think this debate comes down to is that some folks just want a VI. I actually did not want a VII, I had fallen for the VI lore, until I spent hours comparing horns, and never put the VII back on the shelf!
Both are really good sounding horns and I completely agree the neck makes the most difference. In my experience the VI has a better keywork and it does have unique quality when you play a good one like it resonates better in your hands. Some VII’s are great horns and sometimes they have less resistance in the altissimo range. People with really big hands sometimes prefer the VII as well.
Great video Derek! The VI maybe being a little richer and nuanced and the VII more collected and maybe brighter in the core. The VII is definitely an under-appreciated horn. How did you feel it being ergonomically?
Interesting video and beautiful playing on both instruments. I play a mk vii tenor (265xxx with the M stamp) that's keywork has been customised to feel like a mk vi. It's my forever tenor!
Oddly enough, I finally play tested a VII yesterday and as you stated, sharp at the top, altissimo is effortless. What I didn't care for is the pinky table; it took a minute, but maybe the horn needs checked to leaks. I played a VI in college when my horn wasn't around or under repair, and it was okay. I'm just used to my 80s YTS-62!
Great playing man!!! Both of the horns sounded great. I did notice the clarity of focus with the Mk7. This was the era right before the SA 80. The Mk 7 was in essence a Mk 6 body with a SA 80 neck. Selmer necks are the best on the market. They are designed very unique. I would definitely try other necks with that Mk 7. A Ref. 54 neck might take care of the sharpness on the Mk 7 while retaining the core sound of the 6-also the Ref. 36 neck is dynamite too. You’re a very solid player...you made both those horns sing
I have a Mk VII alto and having played other altos like the Yamaha YAS-875EX and Selmer Mk VI, I think it plays very well similar to the other horns. How did the two horns compare with regard to how it felt while playing? Did the VII feel easier to play? I think the bottom line is how the horn feels to you while you are playing it. Thank you for the comparison review!
I had a fellow musician years ago who decided to upgrade his alto sax so bought a Selmer Mk Vll, he was on a gig with a guy who was a sax technician, he told him the Mk Vll was an acoustic disaster in comparison with the Mk Vl.
As a VII tenor player, both sounded great. If you thumb back and forth between the two play test sections, there is essentially no difference. MAYBE the VII is slightly brighter? Not enough of a difference to justify paying 2x the price for a VI.
I like the 7. i had one, it was wonderful. Then I moved on. I play a horn until I feel the vibe(?) is over for me. Then I move on. I play off my sound, so that´s why. Hope you can understand me. Enjoy your vlog very much!!
Any way you can explain a little bit how to use the Front F Adjustment Slider on the Mark VII (1:33) ? Asking because I am buying a Mark VII. Great video!
I have a Selmer VII tenor (297xxx) that I am getting overhauled and thinking about taking up playing again. I have owned this horn since 1979 and played it regularly back then, but she has sat in the closet for the past few decades. Hopefully the music takes root.
The best sound was by the piece "?" you have played with the VI... sadly you have not played the same with the VII, so it's hard to compare. Anyway many thanks for all the info and your good video.
I think that was me goofing around! I do wish I had as much time on the VII as the VI, being my main horn, but you're right, there are inherently some limitations. Thank you for the kind words!
I have a Mark VII alto and love it. I’m saving to buy a tenor. I recently tried a bunch of horns and have to say I’m no longer interested in any Selmer horns for a tenor. The Yanagisawa TWO20 was an absolutely amazing horn for me. I always thought I’d want a Selmer if some sort for a tenor, but when I tried the Yani it was all over for me. Best horn I’ve played by far. That’s just me. I might add in fairness I have never had the opportunity to play a great VI or SBA tenor. But I’m also not spending that kind of coin.
It’s best not to connect Coltrane with the Mark VI (even though he did play a Mark VI from 1965 till he died in 1967). Coltrane was primarily a SBA guy with classic recordings like “Blue Train”, “Giant Steps”, “Kind of Blue” and “A Love Supreme”
Imagine the value of a VII if Coltrane had played one. (I realise that’s impossible- but you get my point) Sonny Stitt didn’t seem to mind the VII either. I think the VII is flawed but many saxes including the VI are- if you can get a VII at the right price (especially compared to a VI) I’d go for it!
Beautiful and fat sound on the VI of course ! I guess finding the good "horn-moutpiece" combination is the key, as far as I understood. What I'm trying to say is a new sax with your own setup won't necessarily work as fine as on the horn you know. I'm for instance playing on a Série II with a 9* ottolink and 3 1/2 Vando. Tried my setup on a SBA and a SIII and it didn't work..Bravo & thanks for the nice video ! cheers.
I wonder, how do you manage to play with a 9* opening and still use 3 1/2 Vandoren reeds? I play a Series iii with a Selmer Concept (I am a classical saxophonist) and the classic blue box 3 1/2 are quite a struggle for me... The jazz style and the classical style are very different, for sure. But a concept is close to a 4 opening and a 9* seems a bit too fat... What styles do you usually play?
@@nikolaishauchenka2208 Hi Nikolai ! I'm a jazz and classical saxophonist. But I'm using a very different setup for classical (Vando S25, A27, T35 and Selmer D for bary with 3 or 3,5 reeds). For jazz, I play quite open mouthpieces in order to be able to play loud. The embouchure techniques are totally different. And about managing to play with a 9* with 3,5 (on tenor though), it's hard in the beginning, but then the reed get softer ! :)
LOL They are both Selmers and therefore great instruments. I have the Mark VI with the Berg Larson 110/1 mouthpiece. Plays bright and dark .With great subtones. The Mark VII sounds great also. Since both were played by Coltrane lol Im sold. lol
Just a minor point; John Coltrane died on July 17, 1967. Selmer introduced the Mark VII in 1975. Eight years after he died. It is highly unlikely John ever play a VII. Just sayin’.
Betty versus Veronica. It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian. I like the VII over the VI here. It sounds a little crisper, but I would be very happy with either horn. Terry
Frederick L Hemke who is a classical saxophone player was onvolved in designing of the MK7 , probably that´s why it sounds diferent from the MK6 . IMO MK7 sounds a little more "smooth" .
For me the main draw backs of the VII boils down to ergonomics. Once key heights are adjusted for intonation, the tilt, gaps and length of travel for both pinky fingers makes the VII quirky and not mechanically as efficient as a VI or and SBA. Unless you have a tech that is very good at mechanical modifications, this makes in my opinion the VII difficult to use specially on alto in a classical settings. Of course a vintage horn is only as good as it's last rebuilt, but let's just say that between an early VI and a VII, a play test usually tilts the balance towards the VI from the feel of the horn alone. As far as economics, well if money were no object...
It's difficult to distinguish the difference. Automatically I wanted to say that the 6 was more resonant, but then I tried to click on the different examples excerpts you played by using my left hand inverted on the mouse with my eyes closed. lol. I was trying to randomly listen without making a biased observation. I surmise that once again the majority of the differences are better discerned by the player. I've got a 7 and it sounds and feels great(in my skull), the feedback is very resonant, but the ergonomics feel chunky...maybe wider, with a greater travel distance in my small hands. Maybe i'll see if I can get the pad travel distance decreased, not sure if that would screw up the intonation more or improve it. The left stack is especially cumbersome. Also the left pinkie table feels larger or farther away than what I prefer. I actually used the lower C#B and Bb less in solos because of this. Buying a vintage horn: While I don't want to initiate an esoteric debate on whether saxophones have souls, I feel that the vintage selmers and some of the older Yanis have better user feedback connection. I didn't actually find the "sound" I was looking for until I got an old 7 to use as a beater horn when I traveled overseas(3 yrs ago). Now I have that "skull-sound" feeling with almost every horn, vintage or not. I've got a King 20 super silver sonic I did not want to risk the trip. The King never really spoke to me as the Selmer mk 7 did. But I did like the ergonomics of the King better. It would be nice to have some kind of rental program, where someone could play a vintage horn just to more easily attain that correct feeling of resonance via player-vintage feedback loop. I don't know maybe I'm not making any sense and it's all in my head. I just know that because of the vintage selmer 7, I now play more for myself.
You can confirm some 7s have a blue s on the neck since I own a 256xxx that has just that.it also has the engraving on the bell and the other thing is its substantially heavier than the 6 since I have a 215xxx and can say it's so.enjoyed the video.
@@SaxSpy that's a good question and I only stated that because of the way the 7 peels my thumb away from my hand but since you asked I did my best.im not really how accurate this is but the 7 came in between 3.8 &4 lbs while 6 was 3lbs.the necks were in
What I heard is that the guy that did all of the hand engraving on selmer paris saxophones died, so there were about two years of non-engraved saxophones while they switched to machine engraving. Earlier 7s like yours got it then, but mine is a 307xxx so it has no engravings
First time watching one of your videos. Liked the content and the text graphics that followed the sax where ever you moved. DOES matter when describing specific parts of a sax to some one newer or simply to make it easier for our eyes to find what you're referring to. . "Best"? :) No such thing. Thought you were going to point out specific Mark VI's that many do consider gems. Maybe you can do another video where you do. Please compare some King Super 20's, Martin's, Conn's... Sub'd.
thanks! unfortunately the algorithm requires superlative language and constantly changing video names so originally it was just Selmer Mark VI + Mark VII. Thank you for the support!
I've never had a Selmer horn but I thought I would throw this in, my alto is a vintage Buescher Trutone, it has LP(low pitch) engraved under the thumb rest, it came many years ago with a Selmer mouthpiece from the 1950's, it has a great vintage sound, its the only woodwind instrument I have never tried a different mouthpiece with.
As I read , its good to know , if someone has bigger fingers , he ought to use that VII. Good it sounds bit sharper too , because you can play with nice subtone in lower part, if you do it tenderly. Sharper is better anyway. (if its tenor, not alto, or soprano)
A l'époque c etait tout reflechi pour moi ! j ai joué Mark7 pendant des années avec plaisir! ... bon par contre j ai délaissé Selmer pour Conn, mais c est un autre débat ;)
@@ferruccioveglio8090 oui, j imagine qu à sa sortie, le markVII etait plus cher que le markVI... Pour ma part (pour mon époque), j ai acheté mon markVII en 2005. Il était vraiment beaucoup moins cher que le markVI et tout aussi bien voire mieux ;)
the vi sounds way better to me - much more body and character to the tone. The vii sounds more modern - like a yani or yamaha. i can see why selmer went that way but i dont like the sound as much.
@@ruicalcada6149 Claro que sim, e gosto que os dois têm a capacidade de mudar o som. No entanto, com a mesma boquilha, parece ser mais brilhante (mas, na minha opinião, não concordo que brilhante é ligado a universidade). Desculpe, já há seis anos que saí de portugal :p
@@SaxSpy Eu tenho um mark 7, toco com boquilha massa vandoren e o sax tem um timbre escuro brutal, com excelente projeccao em todos os registos, muito melhor que os serie 2 mais recentes que tenho..para o jazz é o sax perfeito, mecanica irrepreensivel,
De notar tambem, que o mark 6, tem mto pouco verniz, e o Mk 7 está quase a 100 %, o que tb influencia o som, o Tenor mark 7 que tenho já só tem cerca de 50% do verniz, e com uma boquilha de massa tem o som bastante escuro. Como já li tb noutro post, estes saxofones sao feitos à mão e cada um tem um som diferente de outro, mas uma coisa eu sei o mark 6 é bastante mais leve de peso ( kg), do que o Mk7, que é mto mais pesado...
I have always felt that the late Mk VI’s and Mk VII’s got an undeserved bad reputation. Each horn should stand on its own merits; does it play in tune, is it mechanically sound, does it play with the openness/resistance that the individual player desires, how does it feel under the fingers. The Mk VII featured here sounded great for the demo, both horns did. The monetary value difference between the two horns in this demo would be thousands of dollars. For the sake of argument let’s say the VI is appraised at $9000.00 and the VII is appraised at $2000.00. The quality of both horns and the way they sounded in the demo doesn’t justify the $7000 difference. This rant is coming from a Selmer snob. I have a ‘73 220 series VI tenor and a 13,000 series Super Sax alto. Previously owned a late VI alto and a Series II alto. Also had a great playing Bundy as a back up for a while. Most impressive Selmer I have ever played was Mark Colby’s Reference 54 in his studio at DePaul U when they first came out. My opinion isn’t going to change the way vintage Selmer’s are viewed and appraised by other Selmer snobs, a killer horn is a killer horn and a clunker is a clunker. No matter what name is stamped on the bell or what price is being asked by a seller.
@@SaxSpy , pequenos tesouros baratos, aqui em Portugal, há Tenores MK 7, a metado do preço de um Mk6, e sim eu tenho um Mk 7 de 1980 com um tudel com um deep Azul in the Logo S, Its a litle darker Blue than de normal blue of a series 2...
Tenor Mark VII's can be amazing and without a stuffing old honky sound that the mk VI gives. Buy a good mouthpiece, reed and work on your time.. People are stunned when they discover I'm on a 7
The VI sounds like a VI and the VII does not. The VI's sound is as recognisable as any of the old 50's crooners and is the definitive sound of the tenor saxophone to me :)
Having played all the saxes most of my life, I can tell you there is no such thing! When the Selmer Mark VI was made, they were so inconsistent that there is no way that a Mark VI can wear that title. A good one is a great horn, but it must be worked on consistently. There are some truly great horns being made today, but it depends on what the individual is looking for to pick a specific model! Then, there is the mouthpiece, which again can change the dynamics of the entire playing experience.......??????
In 55 years ,certainly in Europe and UK ,I've never seen an original Mk6 or 7 without a blue painted impress octave key . Selmer did franchise out to Elkhart (I believe ) unfinished instruments to be lacquered ,engraved and padded up in the US . These instruments are generally brashly over-engraved and with a nitro cellulose lacquer . This Mk 7 you play must be one if these export jobbies and sold out with no engraving and lacquered without adding the blue paint on the octave key , infringing the Selmer contract. In the UK here Mk 7's were a failure,hyped up as being the 'perfect' tenor and priced too high . I played one of the first tenor import at Lewingtons and was not impressed with the chunky keywork ,heavy feel and bland response . The 1950 Super action I played then (and still do )was far superior in every aspect. In the 70's Selmer sales slumped as big bands closed up and schools stopped the financing . Gibson and Fender simply could not make enough guitars to satisfy the new amateur market.The Beatles/Stones/Pacemakers thing took over and Hofner flourished. However I did borrow a superb Mk7 alto for a recording session in 1974 and was impressed with the crisp accurate resistance . Your Mk7 may not be a relacquer then but certainly not a French factory job .
The 7 is a relacquer . All Selmer octave keys had blue painted 'S' logo . This has been stripped off . The colour is not original . Hard to tell as there is no engraving . Only a few 7's were unengraved.
I would have to disagree with all of that! I appreciate the comment though. There are records and production photos that show that usually wasn't the case.
I own a Mark VI. I was surprised how much the VII sounded like the VI, although a tad buzzier and brighter, yet still had the trademark "centered" sound. Altissimo projects more on the VII, and is just a tad sharp--I imagine overtones are easier. But I preferred the sound of the VI. BTW, you're one helluva of player! Nice job.
I heard the VII as a little brighter but overall with a nice sound. Nice video man, love those graphics.
thank you!
I heard it the same as you did, but note other comments say the MVII is darker. It is very subjective and I could not say that I would be able to tell the difference in a blinded comparison.
@@jaylozier4083 the most immediate difference to me is pitch center
I heard it like you did. But, I can't pick one's sound over the other. They are both great horns, IMOP. BTW, my own tenor is a Mark VI 84xxx from late 1959.
I thought the mark Vii sounded darker personally and the mark vi sounded brighter
I've been looking around for a great vintage sax and tried a few VIs, but only one VII and stopped looking.
For me, the VII has more resonance, more detail in the sound, the VI and the VII are both truly great horns
Excellent recording and very nice playing. Thank you!
Thanks for this comparison. It's a topic that doesn't get enough attention. I just had my Mk VII alto (267452) overhauled and it returned to me just this week. It's 42 years old and I'm the original owner and I can say with great confidence that it never played so well as it does now. There were a number of defects that came with the horn that I never realized were there, some I only recognized because we have an internet now to help me learn how it should be, and some I didn't know until it was taken apart for overhaul.
One of the two biggest defects was the bell bow ring was cracked. I could see a gap and remember the gap when I first got it, but had no idea that it could be fixed, or that the ring was in fact broken. The other defect is the left hand pinky table was aligned badly, making it really hard to use.
After this overhaul, I will never agree with anyone again that the Mk VII is an inferior horn. The design is great, but I guess it's true that Selmer's build quality was lacking.
It's true, the setup is critical to how the horn feels!
This is great, Derek. Excellent comparison with great history and playing context.
They both sound great. I think that the Mark 7 had a slightly brighter tone. I have been playing a Mark 6 for almost 10 years now, and I really enjoy it.
what year?
New subscriber, I played a VII tenor for years on the road, six nights a week, 50 weeks a year. It was a great horn and a real workhorse. I regret selling it. The only reason I chose the VII over the VI was the high F# key. Currently playing an older model Yamaha custom Z, Theo Wanne Durga 9, Fiberreed carbon medium.
I have three tenors, a worn out mk6, 66r (Mauriat), yts 875 (first gen) and I need to downsize to two horns inordinate to get a budget for a yss82zr (soprano) . I am thinking about either ditching all and getting two used Yamahas (yts 875 ex and yts 875 and yss82zr) could you tell me what made you go for a 82z tenor?
Good video!I play a mark 7,so the title caught my eye.Good job.Thank you!
Thank you! Stick around, I have some more cool things on the way :)
I know it’s a personal preference as well the style of playing and all that stuff but I like more the tone of the Selmer MKVII, Great video btw
Derek sounds like a top player on all saxes the way he executes the lines is superb.
You made both of them sound great. Splitting hairs, I think the Mark VI has more character in the sound, but the Mark VII has a slightly brighter sound. Like I said you make both of them sound great and it comes down to how the air blow through and how it feels ergonomically. Great post.
I played a 7 tenor for many years while touring. Great horn.
I like the Mark VI. More personality. Sound is richer and full. Mark VII is very bright. I own a 1958 Mark VI and is like heaven to play.
1958-59 is my favorite range! 70xxx is so solid as a tenor.
Great video!
I have a 282xxx Mark VII, and I wouldn't trade it for any VI. Not in as good of cosmetic shape as the one you show here, but exactly the same build. The one difference is the previous owner installed starburst resonators in it, which I knew nothing about, however, playing it next to several MK VI's from all over the decades and I don't hear a difference that makes me want a VI. I am curious to hear my horn with regular resonators but it will never happen, love it just the way it is. A VII, set up by a great tech (mine was done by Roberto) is always on par with a VI, for MUCH LESS.
I think it comes down to ergonomics and if it the VII's bother you or not. They are fine with me, in fact I prefer them to most VI vintage ergos.
The only other thing I think this debate comes down to is that some folks just want a VI.
I actually did not want a VII, I had fallen for the VI lore, until I spent hours comparing horns, and never put the VII back on the shelf!
It is hard to choose outside of tradition! I'm glad you found your horn
But what is a starburst resonator ?
Both are really good sounding horns and I completely agree the neck makes the most difference. In my experience the VI has a better keywork and it does have unique quality when you play a good one like it resonates better in your hands. Some VII’s are great horns and sometimes they have less resistance in the altissimo range. People with really big hands sometimes prefer the VII as well.
Great video Derek! The VI maybe being a little richer and nuanced and the VII more collected and maybe brighter in the core. The VII is definitely an under-appreciated horn. How did you feel it being ergonomically?
It took a bit getting used to. The keys felt looser and the leverage/key paths were farther out.
Interesting video and beautiful playing on both instruments. I play a mk vii tenor (265xxx with the M stamp) that's keywork has been customised to feel like a mk vi. It's my forever tenor!
7 was brighter...both beautiful sounding.
Oddly enough, I finally play tested a VII yesterday and as you stated, sharp at the top, altissimo is effortless. What I didn't care for is the pinky table; it took a minute, but maybe the horn needs checked to leaks. I played a VI in college when my horn wasn't around or under repair, and it was okay. I'm just used to my 80s YTS-62!
the 7 sounds a bit brighter to my ears
Great playing man!!! Both of the horns sounded great. I did notice the clarity of focus with the Mk7. This was the era right before the SA 80. The Mk 7 was in essence a Mk 6 body with a SA 80 neck. Selmer necks are the best on the market. They are designed very unique. I would definitely try other necks with that Mk 7. A Ref. 54 neck might take care of the sharpness on the Mk 7 while retaining the core sound of the 6-also the Ref. 36 neck is dynamite too. You’re a very solid player...you made both those horns sing
I have a Mk VII alto and having played other altos like the Yamaha YAS-875EX and Selmer Mk VI, I think it plays very well similar to the other horns. How did the two horns compare with regard to how it felt while playing? Did the VII feel easier to play? I think the bottom line is how the horn feels to you while you are playing it. Thank you for the comparison review!
In terms of ease of playing, the resistance was similar. Pitch was different on the VII and the hand positions felt different
Great graphics and quality content! Subbed
Nice playing. The 7 was a tiny bit brighter who’s not good or bad. Both Garda sounded good.
I had a fellow musician years ago who decided to upgrade his alto sax so bought a Selmer Mk Vll, he was on a gig with a guy who was a sax technician, he told him the Mk Vll was an acoustic disaster in comparison with the Mk Vl.
did he sound like an acoustic disaster on the gig?😆 but yes, pete christlieb mentions that in the book with the upper octave playing 1/4 step sharp
I can't feel confortable with the Alto Mk7 right pink, it's out alignement: bad project.
False..
As a VII tenor player, both sounded great. If you thumb back and forth between the two play test sections, there is essentially no difference. MAYBE the VII is slightly brighter? Not enough of a difference to justify paying 2x the price for a VI.
I put them side beside on my instagram. I feel the VII has different pitch but certainly both Selmer sounds. $4-4k difference, good point!
Sax Spy either way, you are killing it man!! I have subscribed and can't wait to see some more!
I like the 7. i had one, it was wonderful. Then I moved on. I play a horn until I feel the vibe(?)
is over for me. Then I move on. I play off my sound, so that´s why. Hope you can understand me. Enjoy your vlog very much!!
The VII sounded brighter to me. Nice!
The early 7s used 6 body tubes. I'd love to see a comparison between the three!
I have plans to bring in a 192xxx tenor!
I own a 6 and agree with cliff white. Six sounds like a six.
I like the sound better on the 7.
You are doing a great job. Is seller no longer making tenors?
Selmer hasn't made the Mark VI or VII for at least 45 years
@@SaxSpy thank you.
I still like the 6. Tone seems richer, plus you seemed.to work easier on it. I'd like to here your thoughts
I am definitely comfortable on the vi, having had it for a year.
Any way you can explain a little bit how to use the Front F Adjustment Slider on the Mark VII (1:33) ? Asking because I am buying a Mark VII. Great video!
shit man you sound amazing!
nah ha, but hope you enjoyed the vid!
Where can I find Chris Bittner playing that tune you started at first? That's a great tune, especially for this demo.
I have a Selmer VII tenor (297xxx) that I am getting overhauled and thinking about taking up playing again. I have owned this horn since 1979 and played it regularly back then, but she has sat in the closet for the past few decades. Hopefully the music takes root.
me too brother! Been sitting in the case too long!
The best sound was by the piece "?" you have played with the VI... sadly you have not played the same with the VII, so it's hard to compare. Anyway many thanks for all the info and your good video.
I think that was me goofing around! I do wish I had as much time on the VII as the VI, being my main horn, but you're right, there are inherently some limitations. Thank you for the kind words!
I have a Mark VII alto and love it. I’m saving to buy a tenor. I recently tried a bunch of horns and have to say I’m no longer interested in any Selmer horns for a tenor. The Yanagisawa TWO20 was an absolutely amazing horn for me. I always thought I’d want a Selmer if some sort for a tenor, but when I tried the Yani it was all over for me. Best horn I’ve played by far. That’s just me. I might add in fairness I have never had the opportunity to play a great VI or SBA tenor. But I’m also not spending that kind of coin.
glad you've found one you like!
I like the sound of Selmer Mark VI
For the next video do a comparison betwen Yamaha yts 61 vs 62 please!
I do have plans for Yamahas in the future!
Excelente video !!
Great playing. And comparison. To my ear the mk vi just has a bit more character... the vii is good but the tone is a bit thin by comparison.
It’s best not to connect Coltrane with the Mark VI (even though he did play a Mark VI from 1965 till he died in 1967).
Coltrane was primarily a SBA guy with classic recordings like “Blue Train”, “Giant Steps”, “Kind of Blue” and “A Love Supreme”
same with metal links, as he often played hard rubber in the studio!
@@SaxSpy Really? Cool, I didn't know that.
Imagine the value of a VII if Coltrane had played one. (I realise that’s impossible- but you get my point) Sonny Stitt didn’t seem to mind the VII either. I think the VII is flawed but many saxes including the VI are- if you can get a VII at the right price (especially compared to a VI) I’d go for it!
@@jamesadams8022 azar lawrence played a VII (I almost bought it, damn), Clifford Jordan album called "night of Mark vii"
Beautiful and fat sound on the VI of course ! I guess finding the good "horn-moutpiece" combination is the key, as far as I understood. What I'm trying to say is a new sax with your own setup won't necessarily work as fine as on the horn you know. I'm for instance playing on a Série II with a 9* ottolink and 3 1/2 Vando. Tried my setup on a SBA and a SIII and it didn't work..Bravo & thanks for the nice video ! cheers.
Thanks!
I wonder, how do you manage to play with a 9* opening and still use 3 1/2 Vandoren reeds? I play a Series iii with a Selmer Concept (I am a classical saxophonist) and the classic blue box 3 1/2 are quite a struggle for me... The jazz style and the classical style are very different, for sure. But a concept is close to a 4 opening and a 9* seems a bit too fat... What styles do you usually play?
@@nikolaishauchenka2208 Hi Nikolai ! I'm a jazz and classical saxophonist. But I'm using a very different setup for classical (Vando S25, A27, T35 and Selmer D for bary with 3 or 3,5 reeds). For jazz, I play quite open mouthpieces in order to be able to play loud. The embouchure techniques are totally different. And about managing to play with a 9* with 3,5 (on tenor though), it's hard in the beginning, but then the reed get softer ! :)
good comparison video👍
thank you!
@@SaxSpy Im waiting for your next video!
LOL They are both Selmers and therefore great instruments. I have the Mark VI with the Berg Larson 110/1 mouthpiece. Plays bright and dark .With great subtones. The Mark VII sounds great also. Since both were played by Coltrane lol Im sold. lol
Just a minor point; John Coltrane died on July 17, 1967. Selmer introduced the Mark VII in 1975. Eight years after he died. It is highly unlikely John ever play a VII. Just sayin’.
Betty versus Veronica. It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian. I like the VII over the VI here. It sounds a little crisper, but I would be very happy with either horn.
Terry
True! much like bowling, we learn to navigate the grease and make it work for us rather than against.
Good comparison! Keep it up!
thanks man!
Same here, 7 is brighter but I love the warn in sound of that 6. It's like the sound has been places ...
this horn has been all over the world! Played international tours with Antonio Sanchez, sessions with Brad Mehldau...
Frederick L Hemke who is a classical saxophone player was onvolved in designing of the MK7 , probably that´s why it sounds diferent from the MK6 . IMO MK7 sounds a little more "smooth" .
Que año son por el acabado y las llaves graciass coatz.ver.
For me the main draw backs of the VII boils down to ergonomics. Once key heights are adjusted for intonation, the tilt, gaps and length of travel for both pinky fingers makes the VII quirky and not mechanically as efficient as a VI or and SBA. Unless you have a tech that is very good at mechanical modifications, this makes in my opinion the VII difficult to use specially on alto in a classical settings. Of course a vintage horn is only as good as it's last rebuilt, but let's just say that between an early VI and a VII, a play test usually tilts the balance towards the VI from the feel of the horn alone. As far as economics, well if money were no object...
fair point!
Lyx jam by Amazon, FANTASTIC.
It's difficult to distinguish the difference. Automatically I wanted to say that the 6 was more resonant, but then I tried to click on the different examples excerpts you played by using my left hand inverted on the mouse with my eyes closed. lol. I was trying to randomly listen without making a biased observation. I surmise that once again the majority of the differences are better discerned by the player. I've got a 7 and it sounds and feels great(in my skull), the feedback is very resonant, but the ergonomics feel chunky...maybe wider, with a greater travel distance in my small hands. Maybe i'll see if I can get the pad travel distance decreased, not sure if that would screw up the intonation more or improve it. The left stack is especially cumbersome. Also the left pinkie table feels larger or farther away than what I prefer. I actually used the lower C#B and Bb less in solos because of this.
Buying a vintage horn: While I don't want to initiate an esoteric debate on whether saxophones have souls, I feel that the vintage selmers and some of the older Yanis have better user feedback connection. I didn't actually find the "sound" I was looking for until I got an old 7 to use as a beater horn when I traveled overseas(3 yrs ago). Now I have that "skull-sound" feeling with almost every horn, vintage or not. I've got a King 20 super silver sonic I did not want to risk the trip. The King never really spoke to me as the Selmer mk 7 did. But I did like the ergonomics of the King better. It would be nice to have some kind of rental program, where someone could play a vintage horn just to more easily attain that correct feeling of resonance via player-vintage feedback loop. I don't know maybe I'm not making any sense and it's all in my head. I just know that because of the vintage selmer 7, I now play more for myself.
Like the VII.
You can confirm some 7s have a blue s on the neck since I own a 256xxx that has just that.it also has the engraving on the bell and the other thing is its substantially heavier than the 6 since I have a 215xxx and can say it's so.enjoyed the video.
Thank you! Would you be willing to measure the weight on either?
@@SaxSpy that's a good question and I only stated that because of the way the 7 peels my thumb away from my hand but since you asked I did my best.im not really how accurate this is but the 7 came in between 3.8 &4 lbs while 6 was 3lbs.the necks were in
thanks!!
What I heard is that the guy that did all of the hand engraving on selmer paris saxophones died, so there were about two years of non-engraved saxophones while they switched to machine engraving. Earlier 7s like yours got it then, but mine is a 307xxx so it has no engravings
@@Unknown-hk1cgthats interesting. engraving or not the general consensus undervalues the 7.i find it superior to more recent saxes of all brands.
First time watching one of your videos. Liked the content and the text graphics that followed the sax where ever you moved. DOES matter when describing specific parts of a sax to some one newer or simply to make it easier for our eyes to find what you're referring to. .
"Best"? :) No such thing. Thought you were going to point out specific Mark VI's that many do consider gems. Maybe you can do another video where you do.
Please compare some King Super 20's, Martin's, Conn's...
Sub'd.
thanks! unfortunately the algorithm requires superlative language and constantly changing video names so originally it was just Selmer Mark VI + Mark VII. Thank you for the support!
The Mrk VII seems a bit darker with more body and core. Liked that better here. Not a big difference of course.
the 7 sounded a little brighter to me and I preferred the darker sound of the 6
Excellent!
I've never had a Selmer horn but I thought I would throw this in, my alto is a vintage Buescher Trutone, it has LP(low pitch) engraved under the thumb rest, it came many years ago with a Selmer mouthpiece from the 1950's, it has a great vintage sound, its the only woodwind instrument I have never tried a different mouthpiece with.
I have a lp tru-tone c melody right now!
@@SaxSpy I envy you!
The mark 7 was a little more edgier and a touch brighter. The mk 6 had a warmer sound.
Mark 6 was great in tone!
I like how he plays it slow after
I'll try to do that on my next videos
Can you compare a King Zypher to a King Super 20?
I have a Zephyr, and I think my neighbor has a 20
Thanks You so mucho!!
More on the way! Feel free to share :)
As I read , its good to know , if someone has bigger fingers , he ought to use that VII. Good it sounds bit sharper too , because you can play with nice subtone in lower part, if you do it tenderly. Sharper is better anyway. (if its tenor, not alto, or soprano)
better to play sharp than out of tune!
la seule question : DE SI MINIMES DIFFERENCES JUSTIFIENT-ELLE CETTE ENORME DIFFERENCE DE PRIX ? à vous d'y réfléchir......
A l'époque c etait tout reflechi pour moi ! j ai joué Mark7 pendant des années avec plaisir! ... bon par contre j ai délaissé Selmer pour Conn, mais c est un autre débat ;)
@@pierrepothin5297 À l'époque, 1977, le nouveau Mark7 était le 25% plus cher du vieil Mark VI, mais pas 5 digits, 220.000.
@@ferruccioveglio8090 oui, j imagine qu à sa sortie, le markVII etait plus cher que le markVI... Pour ma part (pour mon époque), j ai acheté mon markVII en 2005. Il était vraiment beaucoup moins cher que le markVI et tout aussi bien voire mieux ;)
interesting topic
Great video. What did you think of the bigger spatula keys? Did they take getting used to or cause any problems when playing?
A little loose, odd at first but I think the left hand palms felt more different from what I remember.
the vi sounds way better to me - much more body and character to the tone. The vii sounds more modern - like a yani or yamaha. i can see why selmer went that way but i dont like the sound as much.
I think the mark 6 But - it's your horn and you're EVEN better on that through familiarity. Going to pinch your 251 licks
No doubt Mark 6 is for a more professional type of jazz where the Selmer 7was saying could be used for a college student because of its brightness
interesting analogy
Isso é mesmo uma observação ridicula, experimenta tocar os 2 com uma boquilha de massa...vai ver o brilho do mark 7 desaparecer...
@@ruicalcada6149 Claro que sim, e gosto que os dois têm a capacidade de mudar o som. No entanto, com a mesma boquilha, parece ser mais brilhante (mas, na minha opinião, não concordo que brilhante é ligado a universidade). Desculpe, já há seis anos que saí de portugal :p
@@SaxSpy
Eu tenho um mark 7, toco com boquilha massa vandoren e o sax tem um timbre escuro brutal, com excelente projeccao em todos os registos, muito melhor que os serie 2 mais recentes que tenho..para o jazz é o sax perfeito, mecanica irrepreensivel,
De notar tambem, que o mark 6, tem mto pouco verniz, e o Mk 7 está quase a 100 %, o que tb influencia o som, o Tenor mark 7 que tenho já só tem cerca de 50% do verniz, e com uma boquilha de massa tem o som bastante escuro. Como já li tb noutro post, estes saxofones sao feitos à mão e cada um tem um som diferente de outro, mas uma coisa eu sei o mark 6 é bastante mais leve de peso ( kg), do que o Mk7, que é mto mais pesado...
the 7
Mark 6 !
The gold standard
I see why the vi is more popular now… but what if you switch the necks?🤔
Don't fit, and the VII neck is very different. A lot taller
I have always felt that the late Mk VI’s and Mk VII’s got an undeserved bad reputation. Each horn should stand on its own merits; does it play in tune, is it mechanically sound, does it play with the openness/resistance that the individual player desires, how does it feel under the fingers. The Mk VII featured here sounded great for the demo, both horns did. The monetary value difference between the two horns in this demo would be thousands of dollars. For the sake of argument let’s say the VI is appraised at $9000.00 and the VII is appraised at $2000.00. The quality of both horns and the way they sounded in the demo doesn’t justify the $7000 difference. This rant is coming from a Selmer snob. I have a ‘73 220 series VI tenor and a 13,000 series Super Sax alto. Previously owned a late VI alto and a Series II alto. Also had a great playing Bundy as a back up for a while. Most impressive Selmer I have ever played was Mark Colby’s Reference 54 in his studio at DePaul U when they first came out. My opinion isn’t going to change the way vintage Selmer’s are viewed and appraised by other Selmer snobs, a killer horn is a killer horn and a clunker is a clunker. No matter what name is stamped on the bell or what price is being asked by a seller.
$5000 is a lot! I always say the VII is a really competitive horn in its price range
The 6 has a special character, the 7 is just a good horn.
At a great price too! VII's are hidden treasures
Pure snobbery
@@SaxSpy , pequenos tesouros baratos, aqui em Portugal, há Tenores MK 7, a metado do preço de um Mk6, e sim eu tenho um Mk 7 de 1980 com um tudel com um deep Azul in the Logo S,
Its a litle darker Blue than de normal blue of a series 2...
@@SaxSpy , 1/2 from the MK6 prices
It sounds like the upper register is harder to intone on the mark vii
correct
Mark 6 has a better tone to me. More mellow. The Mark 6 sounds like a horn Dexter Gordon would have played.
Tenor Mark VII's can be amazing and without a stuffing old honky sound that the mk VI gives. Buy a good mouthpiece, reed and work on your time.. People are stunned when they discover I'm on a 7
Wow! Can't believe it the7
Sounds better to me.
The VI sounds like a VI and the VII does not. The VI's sound is as recognisable as any of the old 50's crooners and is the definitive sound of the tenor saxophone to me :)
Thank you! I do like the vintie sound
mark vi superior. nice sound bud
thanks!
The Vll sings
Mark 7 sounds much different to the 6
The V11 offered a bit more feel. Ask Clinton.
Are you referring to Bill? Man, he was one of the worst sounding "players" I've ever heard 😂
What’s the differences between the alto mark VII and the alto mark VI?
I will do a video on that!
Where are my manners? Thank you for making the video.
thanks!
they sound the same or are you
See if you hear a difference in pitch
Iron man: I have 49 incredible armors.
Sax spy: yeah i have them but less than you.
lol wut
@@SaxSpy yeah cuz iron man's armours are named Marks so its kinda funny
haha makes sense :p
Having played all the saxes most of my life, I can tell you there is no such thing! When the Selmer Mark VI was made, they were so inconsistent that there is no way that a Mark VI can wear that title. A good one is a great horn, but it must be worked on consistently. There are some truly great horns being made today, but it depends on what the individual is looking for to pick a specific model! Then, there is the mouthpiece, which again can change the dynamics of the entire playing experience.......??????
Definitely the Mark VI wins! However, I do like the high f# on the Mark VII.
Mark VI is the Best
In 55 years ,certainly in Europe and UK ,I've never seen an original Mk6 or 7 without a blue painted impress octave key . Selmer did franchise out to Elkhart (I believe ) unfinished instruments to be lacquered ,engraved and padded up in the US . These instruments are generally brashly over-engraved and with a nitro cellulose lacquer . This Mk 7 you play must be one if these export jobbies and sold out with no engraving and lacquered without adding the blue paint on the octave key , infringing the Selmer contract. In the UK here Mk 7's were a failure,hyped up as being the 'perfect' tenor and priced too high . I played one of the first tenor import at Lewingtons and was not impressed with the chunky keywork ,heavy feel and bland response . The 1950 Super action I played then (and still do )was far superior in every aspect. In the 70's Selmer sales slumped as big bands closed up and schools stopped the financing . Gibson and Fender simply could not make enough guitars to satisfy the new amateur market.The Beatles/Stones/Pacemakers thing took over and Hofner flourished. However I did borrow a superb Mk7 alto for a recording session in 1974 and was impressed with the crisp accurate resistance . Your Mk7 may not be a relacquer then but certainly not a French factory job .
I owned a vii played a bunch of vi's . I prefer my taishan.
The 7 is a relacquer . All Selmer octave keys had blue painted 'S' logo . This has been stripped off . The colour is not original . Hard to tell as there is no engraving . Only a few 7's were unengraved.
I would have to disagree with all of that! I appreciate the comment though. There are records and production photos that show that usually wasn't the case.
I think the Mark Vii has a brighter sound
seems to be the consensus! I wonder if the smaller bore contributes to it
@@SaxSpy I think that maybe it
The 7 sound better