This is overall a problem with the dragonball series as a whole. Once a character goes through an arch, they stop doing anything and just sort of exist in the background.
@@TheJadeFist They finished developing in Z. Their characters went from point A to point B already. The characters are kept around because people would be upset if they weren't around. I agree theyre handled poorly, but it's easy to criticize when you're not a writer. And/or you've never written a series quite to the magnitude of Dragonball
@@Shireikai Well, keeping them around and never using them, just makes them a waste. Other shows and even the Dragonball, had characters that did their thing and kinda went home, like that little native american-esque boy that lives at the base of Korin's tower. Another series like Naruto made pretty good use of some of its side characters, there'd be times they are fighting or doing a mission without the main protaganist even around at all, and while I agree that it has a filler problem, they found ways to take side characters, flesh them out a bit and give them their own struggles. Dragon Ball Super on the other hand, had some training episodes prior to a tournament in which Krillen resolves himself to get stronger and face his fears and Goku helps him through it. He doesn't actually get any stronger as far as it appeared, but he did learn a move. A more powerful Solar Flare... that he used in the tournement ... on the blind guy...
It just kinda feels like the gohan we should've gotten was the one that was in Future Trunk's timeline. that gohan just seemed so much cooler and somehow more memorable.
Possibly because a character more similar to Future Gohan is what should have resulted from the responsibility of taking on Cell, but instead he reverted back to what he was prior to that.
I actually like anime DB super gohan, but the manga DB super Gohan is better. He is still a family man but he knows how important being strong is, there is a reason why he puts the smack down on Kefla.
Nah I hate future Gohan because he's just the Piccolo of Future Trunks' perspective or even worse. The best possible Gohan that we could've had is the Buu Saga Gohan. Unfortunately, he just fell down towards the end of the saga just when we thought he'd surely be the main character.
It might have been more interesting to see that, compared to his unearthly dad, Gohan felt a sense of duty to protect and thus actually spent time learning the more spiritual side of ki and martial arts in training to become the guardian of Earth.
@Caramel Honey G Goku just fights for the fun of it. You'll only get hype in the fights and not really the character and story development side of it compared to if it's Gohan.
@@jamestran1634 agreed. Goku, while he fights to protect what he loves, doesn't really sacrifice anything. He runs from his family and skirts his regular life responsibilities to train and fight. Gohan's tale could have been about the things he wants from life (education, family, social interaction), but must sacrifice to keep the world safe. Not a hero because he wants to be, but because he must be.
Yeah tell me about it, I have been waiting for his moment to shine ever since they introduced him as a character he my favorite character in the anime apart from teen gohan and goku. I even thought that Gt was about goten up until i saw the first episode.
@Mike nahh gohan deserves something as his own not to surpass gods or surpass goku he deserves more I honestly wanted gonna to be the main he was my fav since his first appearance
DBS was the one chance to give Gohan the spotlight after he was sidelined in the Buu storyline. But we got more Goku. Goku by the barrel full. And Vegeta. And more hair colors. And a purple jackal man. And Jiren.
Toriyama: I'm gonna keep goku dead throughout the buu saga so the other characters can get some praise Toei and Japan: uhm how about no or we break your knee caps. Buu saga had alot of flaws didnt it?
Yup every saga In Z showed the potential Gohan could reach if he tried, we all got hints that he would eventually become the strongest out of all the sayains. Toriyama groomed him for the special moment we all knew would happen just to change his mind at the very end. Pretty fucked up of him to make the character waste all those years of development.
The Gohan I love, remember, and even choke up to every time I see is 11yr old just snapping at cell games. When the dust started to clear and everything stop shaking, you see him standing there, chin up, just surpassed every other Saiyan that ever existed. Lightning was flashing around his aura. Tears were flowing up instead of down. That is hands down my fondest memory of the story of Gohan.
It's funny that I feel attached to this idea, but I think enough characters promoted the idea of feeling responsibility, a pressure to do their calling. Especially with Japan's culture and climate, Gohan may have inspired people to fully lean into what gives them peace and "happiness", rather than embracing what they believe their duty/responsibility is.
And for that reason I believe he can’t be the main character of dragon ball. He doesn’t have the drive and sense of responsibility. And when he has the ability to win, he wastes it
i very much agree with you, but i don't rlly know what gohan likes even from GT or Super, i'd say it's more of a who and it's Piccolo. He was that dude because his Mom was enforcing her son to doo schoolwork while Goku was saying to follow my math and help protect this world and that's obviously frustrating for him but met Piccolo which is a third parent for him, like a good Uncle making him smart, wise, and strong.
Are you fucking serious? What about his bloody responsibilities as a father?! To ensure his family stays safe, Gohan should still train daily and save the world when it is necessary.
It was going to be that way, Gohan was going to be the main protagonist, since the start, after Goku's 24 hours passed he was done but the Japanese audiences riot about it and made Toriyama to come up with the most ass plot armor to bring Goku back to life
Here are three things I would have done to fix Gohan in the Buu Saga; 1: He doesn't slack off. He doesn't have to be strong enough to kill Buu outright, he just doesn't slack off. That way, when he gets his potential unlocked, it feels more sincere. 2: He's the one to kill Buu. Gohan was stronger than Goku at the end of the series anyway. You can still have Buu blow up the Earth, just have Goku go get Gohan to help with the fight. 3. He keeps learning. He became braver during the saiyan saga, and his fight with Cell taught him not to hold back when it gets serious. If he had extended that lesson, he could have had the role as 'reluctant hero who doesn't like to fight, but is ruthlessly efficient when he has to'. That's an angle nobody else in Dragon Ball has.
People seem to think it's fine because Gohan achieved his dream as a scholar. But honestly, I think it'd be far more interesting with Gohan struggling with his dream as scholar and wanting to protect the people he loves and trying to find balance. Some think Gohan doesn't work as main character because he hates fighting unlike Goku but I disagree with them. Lot of warriors don't get joy for fighting but they only do it out of necessity, wanting to protect people they love. Goku finds thrill in battle unlike Gohan.
I'm okay with the slacking off. Damn it, I'm basically writing a fanfic and I feel dirty There's options like King Yemma sending Vegeta back. Vegeta is a strategist, and realizes that he won't be able to beat Buu. His pride just got the beatdown of the century. Before King Yemma sends Vegeta back, Vegeta finds out that Gohan is in the afterlife, but still alive. Vegeta is frustrated at Gohan. He then visits him to take him to the Hyperglycemic Rhyme Chamber, but it's destroyed. Supreme Kai is around and then Supreme Kais one into existence. Vegeta then flicks off Goku for being so useless, and then takes Gohan to work out his frustrations in the chamber
I think it would've been cool to see him take a more scientific, academic approach to his training. Goku and Vegeta, while geniuses in their own rights, seemed to just feel stuff out, almost as if out of instinct. Since Gohan was so well-read, I think it would've been cool to see him apply an almost Naruto-like analysis of how his power works and how he responds to different training styles.
Buu saga was evidently a half assed effort to be creative. Neither did it do any good for story as a whole, nor for any motives in there...character development for gohan.
And did it again, and again, and again. To the point where we can’t have a character driven opera of a saga anymore, just goku and vegeta against the big bad.
@@Cash-Chris- Fake rumour. The true reason is that Toriyama thought that gohan was not suited to be a main character. Plus, people watch dragon ball because it's the story of goku not gohan.
Think about it. In that timeline, he basically became the Piccolo of Trunks. Even sacrificing himself to ensure Trunks stays alive, prompting the latter to go into full rage (which in this case, served as the trigger for his super sayan transformation). A tragically beautiful way for Gohan to close the loop that started when he was a kid when Piccolo sacrificed himself to save him.
"I intended to put gohan in the lead role. It didn't work out. I felt that compared to goku he was ultimately not suited for the part" But after setting him up as the chosen one you somehow decided he was suited to being benched and treated like a meme after spending every previous episode building him up as the sayain equivalent to a nuke. Good god toriyama. Your a genius but your also a bit of a bint. EDIT: wow this completely subjective criticism made some people mad.
@@shadowshatto Not lazy; he put a lot of thought and effort into it. Just a mistake Toriyama knew he shouldn't build on and stopped. Hindsight is 20/20. Had he written Gohan differently, he MAY have become the main antagonist, and the show MAY have been better for it. But he didn't, no point being sour over it.
@@jaredhall805 Toriyama is infamous for forgetting about major details of characters... at least, when he doesn't just forget about characters entirely. The mismanagement of the Buu saga was quite honestly fixable all the way up to the point that Buu absorbed Gohan and Vegetto had to happen. Especially if small changes were made along the way: if Videl had returned to the main plot after her death because Goku went and found all of the now dead main characters and brought them to where Gohan was with instant transmission - bonus points if she can share his power up in some way, like maybe if the Old Kai is convinced to power her up next because she's the strongest fighter there who can still be resurrected by Shenron or something. If Gotenks had only pulled out Super Saiyan 2 to match Buu and break out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. If Gohan and Piccolo had been absorbed instead of Gotenks, enraging Gotenks enough to push himself to Super Saiyan 3 and take Vegetto's place. From there, some major changes: After saving Gohan and causing Buu to become Kid Buu, he and Gohan killed Buu. Unfortunately Buu, being a being of magic, is able to break away from the limitations usually placed on dead souls, and starts powering up to wreck Otherworld. Vegeta is brought forth to try and stop him, at which point Goku teleports to their position, grabs them both, and takes them back to the Supreme Kai in order to get Buu away from the innocent souls. Some other changes at this point to accommodate for characters being in different places in this shuffle, most notably Hercule Satan, but overall the story can end the same way, with Goku Spirit Bombing Buu's soul in order to weaken him enough to push him through as a good-natured reincarnation.
He forgets them so bad, he admitted to have forgotten that Saiyans had tails when asked why Goten and Trunks didn't have Saiyan Tails like Gohan did as a kid.
I always thought Gohan's character arc was to take him from being reactionary to being active or even proactive. Sadly, is seems like they didn't know how to make that transition. Gohan, after the Cell Games, should have been confident, assured of himself, powerful, and ready to step into conflict the second he sensed a potential problem. His struggle should've been with him missing school, failing tests because he missed them, and then him failing to save a life because he tried to be a good student and ignore his responsibility, similar to how Peter faced a lot of trouble because he stopped being Spiderman. Yes, this Gohan would not have been fully reactionary, they may have even written him to be proactive, but struggling to adapt to his new proactive attitude. Later, Videl would also get hurt because of Gohan, maybe even die at the hands of Buu, unleashing Gohan's true fury, and then Gohan would explode again, but lose. Then he would be given the powerup of the grand kai. He would be forced to meditate, and take on the role of a kai, sacrificing the life he wanted to become a guardian of the universe, not just earth, but coming to terms with this, and realizing that he could bring Videl back with the Dragonballs, but could not be with her, and that he must make that sacrifice to obtain the powers he needed to stop Buu. Now that would've made a difference. But have him be on par with Buu, and have Gotenks intervene to give Gohan the chance he needed to take Buu down, giving purpose to Gotenks and satisfying a role similar to Vegeta's role against Cell, maybe even have Gotenks team up with Gohan, so that Gotenks would step up to become more mature and the new earth guardian, while Gohan left to take on his role as a supreme kai. That is how I would rewrite it
loved that! Specially the part about becoming a kai and being forced to meditate and train far away from his happy life. Goku was the protector of Earth (very much like Superman, cough cough origin story), and Gohan, as his succesor (a succesful succesor unlike the one we got), would've become the protector of at least a galaxy. Also would give him a distinctive uniform so he doesn't look like Goku went to the barber; one which would be an honor to wear and would symbolize or prove his commitment.
@@Yarblocosifilitico Yes, thank you. I believe he should've received a clear, continued growth from where Goku left off. Even if he didn't become a kai specifically, him filling that role as a godly guardian would've been a great way to have his character come into his own and really succeed Goku in an evolutionary way. But I guess that's just fanfic at this point. Oh well
I like your idea, but I have one massive issue with it. It by design writes Gohan out of the story. After becoming a kai, what exactly would the story be about? If he was the actual new main character, he needs to stick around much longer than one arc.
@@Lucifer_Nihilum Well, I wrote this with the idea that it would be the natural conclusion of the show. I basically see the entire series as the "Legacy of Goku". DB I saw as Goku's story with DBZ being Gohan's. I feel that the Buu arc threw Gohan's story away in the later half just for another Goku hero moment though. Looking back at it, I don't actually like the idea of Gohan becoming a Supreme Kai, but it made sense to me that Goku's legacy would be his son reaching his even greater potential than Goku had and if Goku was the "hero of earth", Gohan should graduate to a "hero of the universe" role. Heck, Goku actually did achieve that almost by accident with Freeza, so Gohan almost had to achieve equal heights. Think of it like this, if Cell was Gohan's Piccolo (or Vegeta) where Goku really solidified himself as Earth's Hero, then Buu should've been Gohan's Freeza. That said, you could just change it so that Gohan did go back to earth, at the end of the story instead of taking the role as a supreme kai. I mean, Goku never replaced Kami, so it makes sense Gohan wouldn't need to replace a Supreme Kai. So his relationship with Videl could be left intact. I just was going for something a little more cinematic, and, really, the next universal level threat or threat on earth that may have been too much for Goten and Trunks could've reasonably called Gohan back to be the hero again. Lots of different ways the story could've gone.
@@Chronoflation yeah, that's understandable. I think Gohan traveling the galaxy saving people and preventing threats from reaching earth in the first place would have the most potential to be entertaining.
The fact that future trunk's Gohan was so much more memorable just shows how terrible his current state is. We went from a literal kid blasting beams into the atmosphere to a scrawny guy in a jacket unable to fully hold off a wave of Frieza's goons. At least Piccolo brought some of him back during TOP, aside from that the current Gohan is just disappointing imo. Android 17, wearing denim jeans got further than him in the tournament. Seriously?
@@MQhelper at this point I love to consider DBS as non canon for myself. For myself, dragon ball is canon until Ultimate Gohan beating Majin Buu before Buu absorbed Gotenks.
Objectively, Gohan ssj2 and Cell saga just work because he was HEAVILY retconned during that saga finale: - He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must help his father, because Raditz is clearly above him. There is a sense of responsability. - He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must figth saiyans, because he is capable to protect earth and the ones he loves. There is a sense of responsability. - He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must go to Namek, because he is capable to help his friends and feels the need to be the saviour lf those he failed to protect. There is a sense of responsability. - He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must face Freezer on Eartg, because without his father, no one there could possibly face him. Even being weaker, he is sure that, at the very least, he must figth. There is a sense of responsability. - He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must train for the androids arrival, because they are warned about the menace they are and what terrible fate awaits them if they fail to protect earth. He, alongside his father and friends, must protect Earth and the future. There is a sense of responsability. - "yeah no, my dad got this. Why sould I care?", "My dad just told me that I'm the only one that can figth Cell and my friends are dying, but I won't even try because I don't like figths, y'know what am I saying? lmao". Gohan didn't even tried figthing Cell, and he had realistic chances of winning WITHOUT ssj2. He was as strong at his dad at the very least, and if Goku had a good figth with Cell, why couldn't him? But suddenly, this 'but I can't figth" arc appears, and his sense of responsability present through his very first appearence in the series just... disappeared. Suddenly, he is an extreme pacifist who couldn't even raise a finger against someone, and I'm not talking about his explosive rage, of course not, I'm talking about his way of thinking. With or without rage, stronger or weaker, Gohan IS a figther who has morals and WILL jump into action to protect the weaks and endangered without a second thougth. Are we going to forget how he saves Dende from Dodoria? Are we going to forget ho he put his armor and flied to the dessert to figth Freezer if needed? Gohan is a figther pure of heart and 16's words do NOT develop his character, they just serve as a way to return to Gohan the very thing that makes him, well, Gohan, and this retconn in Cell saga (which happens specifically after he exists time chamber) stole from him. 16 words """"awakes"""" in Gohan a sense of responsability that he ALWAYS had, but lost somehow, somewhere, through his training with Goku. It's not wrong, actually works really good (well kinda. I will talk about how Cell saga funnt enough ruins his development in Cell saga. Somehow that happens), but works JUST if it has a motive. Gohan has zero reasons to lose his sense of responsability always present in the series, his proactive behaviour to protect others, the acceptance of his role as a guardian, that's just gone in some point of his training. You can argue that he training with Goku makes him believe he is no needed, and his guardian role is not there because he doesn't need to protect anyone, Goku will. That's wrong because, well, in Saiyan Saga Piccolo is stronger and we know by a fact Goku WILL be revived, so he also doesn't need to train, but still does. Actually, he doesn't even need to train in cell saga because, as long as he knows, Vegeta and Trunks are in their way to obliterate Cell (Vegeta may f*** up, but Trunks could never, and Gohan knows it well because he spents a lot of time with Trunks), so he should be safe even without Goku but, again, juat like in Saiyan Saga, why would he just stop caring? Gohan always cares for others, even if he is not the last/only one to figth. Needless to say, his unpredictable rage does not serve any purpouse in what I exposed, that's more relative to how impulsive he migth be and his power, bit definiteky doesn't affect his morals and I won't explain why because there is no much more space to write in this comment lmao
A promise is a promise. Here we go: After 16 "develops" Gohan, or "de-retcons" him objectively better said, Gohan goes ssj2 (we won't talk about ssj2 as a transformation today, just Gohan itself) and becomes the saviour everyone needed. He gets cocky (which is an organic progression for a character that always fails to protect those in danger. For the first time, Gohan is actually in control. He doesn't just want to end it, he wants to make Cell suffer for what he has done, and that's something natural for some that has seen evil and hate all his life, but unnable to do anything about it), Cell explodes, Goku dies, Cell comes back (we won't talk about how Cell being alive and, even worse, in his Perfect form doesn't make sense, just Gohan itself) and Gohan, still in his saviour role, takes a blast to protect Vegeta, being heavilt damaged in the arm in the process. Here, Gohan DOES have development and decides to take things seriously instead of playing around, but for some unknow reason he starts with the "boo-huu, I can't protect them. I failed. Poor of me, watch me cry" stuff again, like he never heard 16 words. Yes, we can blame it on his sense of responsability I just mentioned before and feeling guilty for Goku's death but, remember, Gohan is HAPPY to see Cell because he can take his revenge. This feeling of being useless just exists so Goku can save the day again, acting as a 16 speech 2.0 and telling Gohan from the other world "c'mon big boi, you can do it uwu". Yeah, he should know goddamit, that's what 16's death was for, my god, that last part of the figth was SO unnecesary because it's just a forced way tp give Goku relevance even when he is not there. At least, if he is going to doubt about himself (which he shouldn't because that's the opposite of what happens when he sees Cell), they should have write it so, I don't know, someone (alive or, why not, even Goku) remembers him what happend before and remembers him what 16 asked, but making it like if Goku's advice is what gives Gohan the courage to figth... that just doesn't work. Gohan through the saga lost himself, then recovered himself, then lost himself again and finally recovered himself AGAIN in like 3 episodes. That's when you just say "please, stop". Now, here is the thing, and a really controversial one: Gohan's peak character was his Great Saiyaman arc. Let me elaborate in the next response, just so it's more organized
See, here is where all that emphasis about responsability I talked about before takes place. Unlike any other character, Gohan doesn't figth for money/fame/prices, he doesn't figth because he wants to become stronger and he certainly does not get exited with figthing. This last thing is EXTREMELY important for Gohan's character and is consistent from Saiyan to Cell saga (we are not talking about Buu saga yet), and what changes (and I criticized) in Cell saga is his motive: he does not get exited for figths, yeah cool, but before Cell saga he ALWAYS fougth when necessary (even his future version btw). Now, what is important here is that very key component to his character, he figths for those in need, not because he wants to. Gohan, as a character, has ALWAYS wanted to be a scientist and live an academic life, even tho nostalfanZ don't want to accept it. This is explicitely stated in his manga introduction, where Toriyama himself, through the narrator, clearly states "This is Son Gohan. He is 4 yeara old and he wants to be a great scientis when he grows up". This shows what people refuse to accept and we must mention before talking about the Greay Saiyaman: ChiChi DOES NOT influence in Gohan's decision about being an academic, and she being strict responds to her being a good mother that knows that Gohan will only achieve HIS OWN and PERSONAL dream of being a scientist if he studies hard, but at no point in the story ChiChi forced nor influenced Gohan's motivations (this also shows in the many times ChiChi tried to stop Gohan from figthing and he still did figth). The reason why I firmly say Great Saiyaman is Gohan's peak as a character is because he is working hard in his all-life-long personal dream while embrasing his self-imposed duty of guardian and protector of those in need. He is quite literally a beloved superhero, he is famous and could win all the money he wants, but that's not his goal. Great Saiyaman is a mysterious warrior, unknown but beloved, because Gohan does what he does because he feels it like his duty. He doesn't care for fame, so he protects his identity, because that's what ALWAYS moved Gohan and that's what always has been his character: a hero for the people in danger. He, unlike all the others, doesn't want to test himself, he doesn't want to prove anything, doesn't want to figth, but he needs to, he has to figth because he is strong, and weak people need strong heroes. I strongly disagree when people say Gohan's arc ends in Cell saga and that could have been his end, he evolving into the Great Saiyaman to preserve peace is the end of his character, where he reached a perfect BALANCE between who he WANTS to be and who he NEEDS to be. Sure thing he stopped training (for 7 entire years 💀), but that's because he doesn't want to get stronger, and the world was at peace, but still he was still hella strong, and he was using that strength to protect that world his old friend 16 loved. Now, people hate Great Saiyaman (and most elements of Buu saga) because it feels "too clownsy" (no idea why are you watching a Toriyama's anime if you don't like that. Sounds to me that you didn't watch DB and skipped directly to Z where his editors forced him to write what they wanted and restricted like half of his liberties btw 💀), and they feel like Great Saiyaman is a downgrade to the badassery of Gohan. But, do you need to be a muscular, oiled man covered in blood and dust to be a good character? We are not watching an 80's Holywood movie. This is Gohan we are talking about, not Arnold Schwarzenegger. As a great hero once said: "A Hero does not just save lifes, but also hearths", and that's what he was doing. It could (and should) have ended there but... Turn on the music and the ligths. Everyone's silent in expactation as the funniest clown on this circus enters the stage. Drums pleeeeease!!! Introducing: Mystic Gohan!!!! Terrible power up, the most stupid in the franchise (if you believe Golden Freezer is bad because in 4 months of TRAINING he reached LESS than what Goku and Vegeta reached in 15 years, just you wait til you see how Gohan got way, WAY STRONGER than what Goku and Vegeta could in 7 years with 0 seconds of training and a MAGICAL RITUAL made by a magical man introduced just to perform this magical a**pull in 24 hours), horrible conclusion to the character (he kinda figths again, but not really because the plot drives us into thinking Gotenks is going to figth, and before you say it's because it's a buildup to Gohan's future participation where Gotenks just acts as a bridge, well, you know it's not true because Gohan acomplishes nothing in that figth and the saga finishes completely different and unrelated to Gohan. This eliminates all of that guardian stuff and responsability to morph him into another brainless saiyan excited for figths. Even worse, in the very end of Z, when Uub appears, we are said that Gohan, again, stopped training/figthing. Don't ask me what was his purpouse in Buu saga's plot then, I don't know, and he also stopped being the Great Saiyaman, so all the balance and protector stuff, the"promise" to 16 included btw, dissapears) and worst of all, he suffers a regresion in general, not only in this "responsability as a protector" stuff I'm talking, but also in his figthing development (he, once again, gets cocky and wants to make Buu suffer, just like with Cell. Before ir made sense, but now? You are no longer a 14 years old unexperienced idiot Gohan, you know what happens when you don't finish the job you moron. LITERALLY 0 development from his experience with Cell was made). Mystic Gohan as a whole ruins what Great Saiyaman achieved. In conclusion, "Gohan doesn't enjoy figths and he has always wanted to be a scientist" (the sentence in "" is not an opinion, this is stated in the canon) but he has always jumped into action to help others, and that's what Gohan is written around. He is a good man with a pure heart, destined to help people. That's why I believe his arc ends in the higgest note possible with his selfless actions under the mask of the Great Saiyaman, while also giving himself the time to be what he wants to, as it is he perfect balance between his motivations and people's expectations on him, flawlessly mixed with his morals and ideals, and it's obvious to me that the brigth colors and the ridiculous poses don't let people see how beutifull of a development it is, the extreme opposite of a "downgrade" to Cell saga's Gohan as most people call it. Damn it, I would even say ending Gohan's arc in his Great Saiyaman phase is, at the very least, as good as ending Vegeta's arc in his Majin Vegeta era, and I don't regret saying it. The fanbase pushing for Gohan being the warrior he never was, born from the enormous misunderstanding about his character, is what ruined Gohan, and it won't matter if he becomes a warrior with his Beast transformstion in Super, or if he retires completely from figthing like in the end of Z and all of GT, not even if he constantly trains to become a full-time warrior in fanmangas like Kakumei/AF, his character just can't be as good as he could if he stops being the Great Saiyaman (and considering the reception that idea had in the fandom, and how hated that part of his writing is, I doubt we will se him again in the costume, unfortunately).
Druhrfe Hadishia don't get your hopes up. It seems, with the new staff of life long fans that they are just writing every character into the memes they remember them being. Vegeta one step behind and Gohan as a wimp are what the fans remember from Z and now the fans are writing the story not adding much new. I think it's the only desease and everything else is just the symptoms. Transformation over use and all.
This comment is so stupid Gohan is the strongest he's ever been in super and he is a great father with a loving wife and a seemingly vary well paying job how is he unremarkable
Well, not everyone is interested in discovering their true potential. Some people are just interested in doing things that don't have anything to do with their potential.
He was my favorite too. He had a lot of cool moments. Like how he injured raditz when the others could not. And fought frieza on an alien planet at 5 years old! And he (non canon) beat garlic jr. Went ssj2 first. And beat cell with one arm. Even after cell powered up, he never stood a chance! Only cool thing he did afterward is pull the z sword out and fight super buu (a lil bit). They turned him into Yamcha and it bothers me to this day.
The argument that Gohan "not fighting" in the show is him being true to himself, I think is a shallow argument. Wanting a character to take part in the story isn't the same thing as that character betraying who they are. Gohan didn't want to fight in the Saiyan arc, Namek arc, Freeza arc or Cell arc. But he did so anyway because he felt he had to or should. Characters in stories almost always do things they don't want to do. That's called conflict.
Honestly, I believe gohan had plenty of potential, but he didnt waste it. Maybe he reached his maximum? He tapped into the brink of rage and learned to control it. Could there be any more than that? I believe gohan was aware that he only could get stronger through training, but knew he already had that off the bucket list, so instead, went through the path his mother wanted.
Not to mention his climax in the cell arc was him ACCEPTING the need to fight, and reconciling it and his passive nature. Gohan just not participating because "other people can do it" is literally going against the best development his character ever received. He just wanted other people do do it, his whole life, and up to cell killing 16, he kept trying to shirk the responsibility, but 16's death and the peril his friends were in gave him the push to accept that he needs to take a stand. I like that super toward the ToP at least attempted to have Gohan understand that he needs to be a warrior and defend the earth so he can have a family in the first place, its a step in the right direction. He just needs to have some form of agency where he can be a more clever, if slightly weaker counter part to Goku and Vegeta, a kind of middle-ground to ending conflicts quickly like vegeta, still giving mercy like goku, and being able to give some tactical advice. I think that's his best niche, a jack of all trades, since hes had life learning interactions with all of them growing up.
heck, even at the end of anime rof, he understood that while he didn't want to, he'd at least try to train to be able to protect his family (one of the best moments in an otherwise horrible arc)........................and then is unable to do anything for the next 2 arcs because the plot made it so that he couldn't (at least he was handled semi-well in the ToP, but I feel that there was something missing, it was like if they were setting up some conflict with him early on but didn't go through)
I understand he doesn’t love fighting but I think he has a responsibility to do it. He’s been dealing with world destroying beings since he was a toddler. You think he’d be prepared for anything. He doesn’t have to fight 24/7 like his Dad, but he can still moderately train.
@@Dozerz its so exciting that Gohan and piccolo are finally getting recognition as powerful people. i just hope they boost Tien a little bit as well. ive always loved tiens character
The best ending to the Buu saga was Vegeta's sacrifice actually ending up killing Buu for me. It would have been a much better arc and would have made Vegeta that much more legendary.
@DarkEternal6 the one crying here is you man "someone called my opinion lame waaa waaa, I don't like the majin boo saga waaa waaa" haha just kiddin' take care bro, I was just pointing out that was just your lame opinion settle down it's not a big deal
Nah, that would have been extremely dissatisfying if that happened. He had no build up to that point, they just pulled a power up out of his ass. Plus, everyone would still be dead if he killed Buu right then and there
I'm surprised there hasn't been a video talking about the relationship between krillin and Gohan. I felt like they always worked together well in the scenes they had together, and I'd say hes the one character hes fought alongside the most. I could be remembering wrong as I'm only going through dragon ball z for the second time. Just a thought on how I think krillin had almost as big of an impact on gohan as piccolo.
I can just about imagine how that would go. Pan: "Look, dad! I found a baby space deer!" Gohan: "No. Just no." This comment was brought to you by the "How was that okay even back then?" Foundation.
I think an arc where goten, trunks and pan are trained by gohan and piccolo to enter the worlds martial arts tournament would allow for exploration of these characters that usually stay on the side
The way you described Gohan’s move from a reactive character to an active one, at 5:20, practically answers your following question on its own: From there, Gohan must learn just how active he should be in the protection of others. At what point does he step from protective to over protective? Active versus over active?
I'd take a line from the one aspect of GT I enjoyed. I'd have Gohan travel the galaxy protecting the galaxy as a whole, from various threats. Getting an idea of how powerful and big the universe is. Gohan is a serious character, who benefits the most from a serious story. Lighthearted moments would be there, but there would be little to no comedy outside filler. I'd also explore his adolescence, he's a teenage saiyan traveling the stars. No parental supervision, nothing limiting him but himself. It would do well to establish his own morals clearly so it is clearer when they are tested. I liked Videl, but as a romantic interest she is not particularly optimal for Gohan or his new arc. I think her existence and personality was a callback too Chichi's original character.
I know Gohan never liked to fight, but after the Cell Saga he should had learn that he must take the responsibility of being strong to protect the world after his father's death.
I agree with that. There is definitely wasted potential there. Kid Trunks and Goten aren't really fully developed characters. Future Trunks had struggle. Future Trunks had a goal. Future Trunks would have done ANYTHING to save the world from the androids. What is Kid Trunks' motivation? Why does Goten have no unique attacks of his own?
Dahryl B i loved the idea that the sons of goku and vageta are best friends despite the fact that their fathers despise one another and also seeing the difference in kids trunks who was raised by vageta compared to future trunks who was raised by bulma. But they barely did anything with them in super. It would've been cool to see them further develop their friendship and get stronger together but they were completely wasted.
Gohan was that perfect balance of savagery and compassion. The thing I can't stand about Goku, is his inability to realize the gravity of situations, and let's dudes go if "they promise to be good" or something. Gohan is the kind of guy who might say to back off before anything happens, but once the fight starts, he goes for the kill. I believe it was Lord slug where it showed that well. Obviously the cell saga, as well as the ToP arc, when he caused a universe to disappear. He showed good resolve there. He said he will find his own way of gaining power, so it'd be pretty cool if instead of god powers, he was trained by someone capable of "mythic" powers, which can rival the Gods. Like a rogue mythic user that the gods couldn't control, so they left him be, and he had been looking for a successor to his powers, and after observing Gohan, felt he was the right choice. Then Gohan can have a more "protector" role. So he will react to threats within his solar system, and may go out to actively take out future threats with Goku. He'd have a sort of, doctor strange role within the universe
This is why I consider the end of the Cell's arc the official end to the show. Seeing Gohan just drop off afterwards is like watching your favorite athlete win the gold medal in the Olympics and then they immediately let themselves go physically.
I was going to make the same statement. Everything after Cell was just wash, rinse, repeat money making entertainment. All GOOD stories must end when they should. Otherwise it's just disservice to the teaching value.
Took 3 years, but at least the hopes you had at the end came to fruition. Let’s just pray we’ll see it for more than just a few moments within a single movie and far more like it for the future to come.
Basically, Toriyama and his editors didn't have the balls that Araki had with JoJo to not be afraid to just move on with new protagonists. It was almost clear by the ending of the Cell Saga that Gohan should've become the new protagonist, but no, we had to get Goku back.
Matheus Moreira jojo is a different thing. not comparable to DragonballZ. Goku was the protagonist for like 300 episodes. That’s different then when Jojo changes characters every part
Yeah, I don't think Gohan was ever supposed to be an adult character. Toriyama didn't think that far ahead. Gohan was like a chemical reaction. He shined brightest at cell, but after that he faded into nothing. In a way, I think Goten was initially intended to be Gohan 2. That obviously didn't go anywhere though. It's truly The Goku Show now.
When Gohan goes from a weak, crying kid that needs to be protected all the time to the beast that defeats Cell, it was so awesome. Because, as other comments said, as a kid you would identify with Gohan (even if just subconsciously). Of course your favorite was Goku or Vegeta, but as an ideal to become. Gohan was you. It's just good writing because the target audience naturally puts themselves in his shoes, like when we read Harry Potter and fantasized about being a mage and all. In DB you know if you were put in that Universe, you would be Gohan. Which is why it was so cool when he finally powered up. Which is also why (I think) his arch went into a normal life arch, going to colledge and playing superhero from time to time.
I felt the same way. We all liked goku and vegeta. But really, (early 2000's when I saw it on toonami) it was gohan that was basically "us" in the show. He was the one that was amazed at the speed they were fighting and couldn't see, he was the one thrown into this crazy world of super powered people, he was half human, he went to school, not the others. He was most relatable. That only makes them ruining him even WORSE. He was also growing up with the audience for several years. Remember he was 4, then 5, then 8, 9 years old etc
@@chillvibed yeah so much wasted potential, it's a shame. In my head canon the true adult Gohan is the future one who trains Trunks. It still makes some sense to give Gohan a more normal life but they overdid it by a lot.
I was alright with Gohan at the of DBZ and when GT came out, I was devastated what they did to him... So when Super was announced I was really excited to see Gohan possibly become a badass character again.... life sucks sometimes lol
dude ikr. when he said "Gohan needs to be provoked to react", i literally thought about the whole plot to Super Hero. i always believed Piccolo and Gohan were the most underrated characters. Along side Tien
I love gohan in the buu saga. I like the slice of life high school life. Gohans nerdy yet serious demeanour was a nice change from gokus childish behavior. Having old characters like piccolo and vegeta didn't do anything bad. It complimented having trunks and goten. The old guard and new guard. Gohan taking gokus place. Gohan was and is a person the audience could relate to the most. Which is why he is and will always be my favorite.
@Kirl C nah. I like it this way tbh. But gohan shouldn't be as worthless as he is in super. You se I liked gohan in the Buu arc, but again I wish he did more... I don't want him to replace goku or vegeta. I want him to be up there like krillin was in db or be a strong side character like when he gaught frieza. Just be good enough too play a major role in an arc, but not take all the spotlight.
Gohan was my favorite character as a child, I identified myself with him. To see how he was pushed to the side was truly disappointing. We saw who he was supposed to become, and we'll never see that.
One of the biggest problems with adult Gohan's character was that he became weaker. Cell changed Gohan so drastically that the lessons Gohan learned would be burned into his heart. It would have made much more sense for him to have spent that seven year gap training with Piccolo and even Vegeta to prepare for the next big threat, all the while not neglecting his studies. You could have had the Goku/Vegeta fight release Buu, then Gohan absolutely bodies Fat Buu and the story continues with the theme of an exaggerated threat until Buu absorbs him. That would have led to the same tense situation of "Gohan has been killed, Goku only a few hours left, and it's up to Vegeta to end this", but without disparaging the character of Gohan.
This this right here this makes sense tbh could have have still got Vegito heck maybe even a Making Vegito and oooo yea no one would have had to watch buu insta kill the planet in 2.5 seconds
gwem321701 what lesson that goku is a dick head who fucked over the world and having a shitty chathatic moment is better than actually training to become better fuck off.
This would have trivialized training. Gohan after Cell was a hobby martial artists who played superhero in his free time. His real effort was in his studies. Gohan never wanted to be protector of the earth. He was thrusted into that role by those around him.
I appreciate you pointing out that Gohan going back to being the "badass warrior" he was at the end of Cell is never going to happen. It really wouldn't make sense for him to. Your idea of him making sacrifices in his normal life to continue being the protector of Earth would be a lot more natural. Are you the one who draws the thumbnails too? They look really nice.
Chubomik Z so what you’re saying is that this will actually give Dragon Ball some good writing material and good character development ? Something they try to avoid like the plague because Goku and Vegeta buddy cop dynamic ?
He is. He posts them on twitter a couple days after these videos go live. A short while before he started these character analysis videos, he posted a picture he'd drawn of Raditz in Toriyama's Saiyan arc art style. He seems to be going for that sort of style with these thumbnails, with the exception of Freeza, who was drawn very similarly to how he first appeared in the Manga in that form. I'm very fond of the art style myself; more often than not, the late-Z art style is used in Dragon Ball videos where possible (or, God forbid, something resembling the majority of Super's art), so it's nice to see the softer style get some love.
@@ElPresidenteMargz personally, I enjoy the buddy cop dynamic. Vegeta is my favorite character, and I think this series does him justice, in many ways more so than DBZ did. His character's dignity is sacrificed for the sake of jokes too often for my liking, but overall he's seems to be respected by Toryiama, now. I do agree that the other characters get the shaft, most notably Piccolo, Tien and Gohan. Why they made Android 17 so strong and left Tien and Pic in the dust, I'll never know.
Matthew Whitworth Vegeta and gohan are some of my favorite characters and goku is at the bottom so I know what you mean. I get frustrated when the series sacrifices development and good writing to give priority to a boring stoic new “enemy” (Jiren, Cumber) and goku to be the be all end all with a new transformation out the ass.. to me personally Mastered Ultra Instinct was the worst thing they could have done .. goku is just a boring Gary Stu while more interesting characters get pushed to the side .. yeah 17s new power makes like NO SENSE ! you know who else has been training non stop in desolated wastelands for years? Piccolo and Tien !! but I don’t see the series giving them a huge power boost but all the sudden 17 gets one ? Lol
Fun fact for those who didn't catch this part in the video: Akira Toriyama was originally intending for Gohan to take over as the main protagonist after the Cell Arc, but instead found issue with this and decided ultimately that Goku would return to take over again. This is what may have caused the decline in Gohans importance throughout the narrative, because Akira probably wasn't sure of what to do with him.
I feel like Adult Gohan should have been a parallel to Goku, and it almost seems like that's what they were going for in the Buu Saga. Lemme explain; - Goku started out living a humble, simple life, wanting nothing else than to live peacefully. - Gohan is now living a humble, simple life, wanting nothing else than to live peacefully. ----------------------------------------------------------------- - Goku is forced into the story because Bulma wants to take the 4-star dragon ball, that Goku is extremely protective over. - Gohan is forced into the story because Videl, threatens Gohan's secret identity, that Gohan is extremely protective over. ----------------------------------------------------------------- - Goku fights a significantly more powerful opponent, while learning of an even more powerful opponent in the process. - Gohan fights a significantly more powerful opponent, while learning of an even more powerful opponent in the process. ----------------------------------------------------------------- - Goku trains with King Kai and unlocks a new power in the Kaio-Ken and Spirit Bomb. - Gohan trains with The Supreme Kai and unlocks a new power in the Ultimate Form. ----------------------------------------------------------------- You see? it almost seems like they were setting up for Gohan to quite literally be the next Goku, going through very similar story beats that Goku did both in Dragonball and Dragonball Z. But it never worked out, and Goku was put back in the spotlight quickly after.
Oh hell yes. Every alternate version of Gohan is great because he has the same sense of duty he had during the namek saga. He didn’t waste it like cell and buu Although, he really couldn’t carry the show. Characters with a round arc are hard to make work in a longer series
@@GokuInfintysaiyan Gohan can totally carry the show, people just think otherwise because they're used to terrible writing. Very few things are ever impossible in writing, it's just that people love to suck the dicks of the writers of their favorite franchises and pretend that no one else understands or can do a better job than they can.
@@Lardo137 The problem is that Gohan's character arc is over. There's really nowhere else for his character to go. As opposed to the flat character Goku, who can and still is carrying the show to this day.
I really liked adult Gohan. He was powerful like Goku but he was much wiser. I would’ve loved it if “The Great Sayaman” head encountered a REAL threat instead of some robberies and an escaped dinosaur so that he was forced to regain his power. Or maybe if Vegeta had invited him to train during the time between Goku’s death and the beginning of the new ark, this way both Gohan and Vegeta would’ve been stronger and then go off from there.
Gohan is a passive character, but Goku also started out that way. In the first arc, Goku was just a country bumpkin living in the woods until he met Bulma who's seeking the Dragon Balls and goes along with her because he doesn't want to give up the 4-star ball. Goku simply does what Bulma tells him to do and has no sense of agency in that arc. He's just along for the ride. By the next arc, Goku actively seeks out the Muten Roshi in order to train under him, so Goku from that point on transitions into being an active character. Gohan could have shifted to be active and drive the story forward and the story could adapt to him. Dragon Ball is a series of progression. It constantly reinvents itself as time goes by. It started out as a gag series and gradually shifted to a battle shonen. I think the reason Gohan became such a wasted character in the end is because the series became very formulaic by this point as Toriyama became set in his ways. He was used to the setup of Goku showing up at the last minute to save the day that he couldn't think of how that would work for Gohan instead of trying another approach. Gohan is not Goku. The tropes that worked with Goku won't work with Gohan. The series has to reinvent itself again if Gohan's the leading man, but Toriyama was too attached to Goku and the tropes associated to him.
True. And plus I think the reason why Toriyama didn't want Gohan as the main character was probably because the story focused on Goku since the start and to suddenly shift to Gohan would somewhat be unsettling to fans
@@joadarium9605 it really would have been because most Gohan fans are from the west since we got introduced to DBZ before Dragonball and Japan would of had a fit.
He is the manga equivalent of any Hollywood child actor with great pipes and potential falling from grace and failing to live up to expectations. He is basically the Macaulay Culkin of the Dragon Ball universe.
Agter his defeat against the return of Frieza, there were opportunities to develop Gohan again but since the tournament, I kind of gave up. Gohan could easily protect the Earth while his dad and Vegeta are somwhere else. I think that a standalone serie for Gohan alone could work but Vegeta and Goku have to die.
I think it was absolute in him. Maybe not another Broly, but what that LSSJ trait could have become/evolved into. Then his mom was 100 percent against anything that wasn't studying and his dad was a win-a-holic that couldn't stop butting into fights even after he died! lol
Yep pretty much. It's a well known fact that saiyans are angry, brash beings who were willing to fight at a moment's notice. Gohan had like 10x the normal anger of a saiyan, and he didn't WANT to fight. When he did he was pushed in a corner with the only way out being standing up for his self, it was sort of like fighting for his life, and just like irl, his fight-or-flight response activated, priming his body for fighting, making him nut the fuck up and beat somebody's ass. That's like the perfect formula for LSSJ, and they wasted it, smfh.
Am I the only one who thought having Gohan unable to achieve further Super Sayan forms was probably the biggest mistake? Like, this video points out why no one cares about him emotionally anymore, but as the series went on, Gohan never went Super Sayan 3 even though Trunks did. Never went Super Sayan 4. Never felt like doing much of anything really. In the Boo saga, and in other saga he wasn't given that power spike we'd seen given to Goku. And the Super Sayan 3 counter part was also disappointing but lets be honest, that stupid arc made any future off-spring from Vagita and Goku to be less needed. A lot of Dragon Ball Z (in and of itself) could be retconned in a way because it hinders a lot of power growth in other characters. They are currently looking for any way to make the Z-fighters stronger in Super, and though I like how they use creative ways for the gang to beat their foes, they really fell off in power at the end. Goku reaching unnecessary power levels is what I didn't like and it makes a lot of people look at the other characters in an underwhelming way. The number of different kings and gods keeps increasing exponentially. First it was the ruler of the Underworld, then it was King Kai, then it was Supreme Kais, then it was that cat guy, then its the weird child thing... it just keeps growing... Where does it end?
Gohan’s character arc is a victim of DBZ’s success. If it had been allowed to end then Gohan would’ve had a narratively satisfying character arc. But the story has to keep going and now we find that our hero has found happiness and is doing the things he enjoys but they’re antithetical to the style of story and structure employed by Dragonball overall. I like Gohan. I appreciated him as a character that contrasted Goku’s lust for combat and challenge. Gohan’s problem is that he isn’t interested in constantly getting better at fighting, it’s not his dream to be the best the way it is for Goku and Vegeta. I appreciate Gohan as someone who fights because he has a strong sense of justice and fights because he has to, but wants to live peacefully. I enjoyed his slice of life days, his interest in being a superhero, but Dragonball’s structure, or the audience, or Toriyama, just seem to be able to support that version of the character long term. Gohan is the hero of a story that’s supposed to have an actual ending with no take backs on the ending thing.
Important Fact: Toriyama was gonna end the series at the Cell saga same with Frieza saga, but fans demanded more, Akira is just tired to make more content, and he was gonna make Gohan the main character after the Cell saga, and that after the Buu saga, Goku’s 24 hours will pass and he will return to the after life. But editors kept telling him to bring Goku back and some crazed fans were so pissed that Goku was killed that they were rioting and tried to burn Toriyama’s house down. In conclusion, the reason why Gohan was screwed like this, is because of a long series of events that involves the industry and the fandom keep on bashing out content from a tired out Akira Toriyama. And that after buu saga’s release, American fans that wanted Gohan to become the new protagonist begins to criticize the series. In the end, poor Akira Toriyama. He doesn’t deserve this shit.
TheBleachj16 It said that canon Gohan doesn’t have the personality to be fascinating protagonist. But here it also pointed that future Gohan however, has the potential.
The disappointment wasn't aided by the fact that they had mentioned in the series that Gohan was SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than Goku when he was that age, it made us feel like they were setting him up to be a character to surpass Goku in strength one day. I think his story should have been different, I feel he should have started as that reactionary character and evolved into the protagonist we wanted to see. Goku is a badass and all, but it would have been a refreshing change of pace to see a character develop into that position.
But from a story telling aspect, Gohan could NEVER be that character while remaining true to his goals and aspirations. He doesn't have the desire to fight of both Vegeta and Goku. Gohan hated fighting. So from a logical perspective, cell (the only known being in the universe who could compete with Gohan's power gap) having been defeated means there is no reason for Gohan to continue training and developing as a fighter. To stay true to his character, Gohan would use this time of peace to pursue his own goals, those being his academics. This is further reinforced with Goku's return and resurrection in the Buu arc, but only after Gohan re accepts the responsibility of protector when Goku's time is up. Not only is he not the strongest anymore, but his father (a person with a natural drive for self development) is back to resume the responsibility of protecting the earth. He feels he isn't needed on this front anymore, so he can now devote his life in it's entirety to his goals which also begin to include starting a family of his own. This is why Gohan continues to be one of my favorite characters of all time. His handling in dragon Ball super only reinforces this as well. Because he is forced to come to terms with the fact that not once, but twice there was a major event that he couldn't rely on either Goku or Vegeta, and he was unable to face it because he made the choice to abandon his training. Both times he nearly lost his life as a consequence. Both times innocent people were hurt. And it's this realization that drives him to seek out piccolo's training. However, this time is different. Unlike before when Gohan was kidnapped against his will and thrust into the his role as a fighter, HE chooses to stand up and reclaim his place on the team. He even goes so far as to reject Goku's reliance on the super sayian transformation and forge his own path to strength.
When fighting Cell, Gohan's mastered Super Saiyan indeed was more powerful than Goku's. So yes at one point (aside from the potential unlock period) he was better than his father.
Maybe Mystic Gohan should have been the level he attained to defeat Cell. _Beyond_ Super Saiyan. Far beyond Goku. Fulfilling the build up he had since the Saiyan Saga. As for where he could have gone beyond Cell with that level of power? I'm reminded of a Superman quote from the Justice League cartoon, as he fights Darkseid. Talking about always have to hold back his full power. Which again, would have been another really interesting avenue to explore with Gohan.
You know who's forgotten? Almost everyone except Goku and Vegeta, gone are those good days when everyone used to fight together. I really miss how they showed Tien, Yamcha (might be controversial for some), Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan.
It’s a little weird that Gohan snapped over an android that he didn’t know. If only Akira wrote that scene better. Like if Android 16 and Gohan had a bond together we’re they would talk about nature, innocence, and who Gohan really wants to be when he grows up. I don’t know it would’ve hada bigger impact.
Gohan should have an arc where he has to surpass Goku again. It always rubbed me wrong that Gohan surpassed Goku intentionally on Goku's behalf and then he was made to sit around and not train a lick. Even with a Scholarly Career, Gohan could still find time to train while studying.
Like others have said, Future Trunks Saga shows what we expected of Gohan. To be a great warrior who becomes Earth's last line of defense against mortal threats. But one could say that Trunks coming back from the future and dispruting that timeline had the unfortunate effect of saving Goku at the expense of Gohan's character development. What it would take for Gohan to be "revived" as a character would need to be equally as apocalyptic as the Android saga's future. He would have to become the last line of defense again.
Maybe... but if we can harden him back into a warrior again and have him mentor Trunks and Goten properly, we could actually see Gohan become a new Picolo and the boys blossom into something unique. Problem is that how are we gonna... Uh... Kill Videl and her baby that I'm pretty sure she has? Just food for thought.
Would have been awesome it if was future Gogan who came back at the beginning of the Android arc, to show his younger self the importance of training because you never know what will happen in the future. Still could of had trunks come back at a later time, revealing future Gohan was killed, thus further enforcing the idea to continue training to change his future and not be killed
You know, thats still kinda possible with the way the current super arc villain gains his power. they could run back Gohan's hidden potential he got from the supreme kai and that could act as an immunity to the villian's abilities that effected Goku and Vegeta. Also considering who was the first to take a hit from his abilities that could be the turning point that brings him up to par with the top 2 again.
It's such a shame too. Adult Gohan looks like a complete and total badass. The story easily could've kept Gohan as a reactionary protagonist by exploring the dichotomy between his desire to pursue his personal goals, versus the immense responsibility that being earth's strongest warrior carries. I can sort of see why Toriyama decided to keep Goku as the protagonist. After all, it's so much easier to keep the plot going when your main character's main desire (fighting) aligns with what most of the villains in the series tend to resort to (FIGHTING). This is sort of the TL;DR. After this, I'm sorta just slapping my thoughts down as they come. Feel free to read all of it or none of it. It's quite frankly pretty damn long, but to be honest most of it is reiterating what we already know. It's more of an open invitation to discuss the series as a whole. So here we go. I just think Gohan was so much more interesting of a character than Goku. That might perhaps be my bias towards DBZ since I never watched or read the original Dragonball (something I should remedy), but Goku's main character trait was his easy-going, laid-back simplicity. He took life in stride, and was a good person at heart. It's why he's so easy to like and follow as a character and by no means is he a bad character. It's obvious to see why he was the series protagonist for decades. But in my opinion, Gohan was just more complex. His core defining trait was his potential, not just as a character, but in terms of what could be done with him in the narrative. The flexibility of his reactive nature, sense of justice and duty, and desire to do something with his life other than fighting is extremely interesting. He had just a tinge more depth than his father, and I'd attribute that to him being a subversion. His passivity conflicts with what Dragonball is about and that's *precisely* why he's such an interesting subversion of Dragonball itself. It isn't that Gohan can't or doesn't want to fight, it's that Gohan *needs* something to defend to bring himself to violence. While I understand Toriyama's decision, I think more than anything he was just more comfortable with Goku as the lead rather than Gohan not being "a good fit". Because the way I see, Gohan's reactionary nature is *perfect* for Dragonball, because every single antagonist in the series is ACTIVE. Gohan's call to action is always in the defense of the innocent, to protect those weaker than himself, to be a bulwark for his friends and family. An active antagonist will naturally come into conflict with Gohan's sense of justice and reactionary nature, simply because the antagonist is more often than not evil beyond redemption, seeking to harm everything Gohan WANTS to protect. Gohan HAS to fight back, because if he doesn't, he loses everything. And to be honest, I think this is exactly 1/1 what Toriyama was initially trying to go for. After all, the Buu arc begins with Gohan interacting with the people he is going to eventually protect, and the main antagonist of the arc is Majin Buu who is basically just a malevolent force of nature that DOES end up wiping the entire planet out. However, something just doesn't click with the way Toriyama wrote the introduction to the arc. It was practically set up for success; everything was built for it to be. I think the major problem that Dragonball suffers from as a series in general is just *way too many characters* . There are too many micro-scale character arcs going on at any given time and I think Toriyama was focusing on a lot of the wrong characters, and if not the wrong characters (Vegeta) he was implementing their character arcs at the wrong time. With an ever increasing roster of characters, it's inevitable that many of the veteran characters of the series will start being forgotten and alienated. The character focus is just too broad, and I think that's why many of the characters in DBZ during the Buu arc and in DBS have sort of regressed in their complexity. Many of the characters are more one-note, and so many of the older characters have finished their character arcs. There isn't a lot of room to develop older characters if they aren't, by their very nature, active characters. That isn't to say older characters can't still develop and grow more, but let's be honest: Dragonball is an extremely simple story and series at heart. There aren't any "tricks" or "gimmicks" to how the story functions. There's no narrative "focal point" that drives the plot perpetually to its conclusion. We aren't hunting for a specific treasure, we aren't trying to wipe out a specific enemy, we aren't trying to bring a dead mother back to life, hell we aren't even searching for the titular namesake of the series anymore since acquiring a dragonball seems as simple as going to the local 7/11. The only overarching goal in Dragonball is "surpass your previous limits and get stronger". It's why you can pick out nearly any arc in Dragonball Z and argue that the story could've ended right there. All it would take is a few tweaks to character arc resolutions and the story could theoretically wrap up at any point. If the original Dragonball was a genuine adventure meant to excite your sense of wonder with legitimate stakes and interesting story beats, Dragonball Z is a roller-coaster meant to excite your adrenaline non-stop until you're off the ride. You think fondly of the ride, but you know that in the end, that ride was meant to do only one thing. In fact, pretty much every single arc in DBZ is a reactionary arc from a pro-active antagonist asserting their will on the plot. We jump from one villain to the next, each one pretty much desiring the exact same thing as the previous one, except this time they're S T R O N G E R. Saiyan Arc? Destruction of Goku and friends and acquiring the dragon balls to make a sinister wish. Namek? Destruction of Goku and friends and acquiring the dragon balls to make a sinister wish. Cell? Has the best narrative introduction out of the three so far imo, but despite Cell's initial goal being to obtain perfection through absorption of the Androids, the arc concludes with Cell pretty much wanting to destroy Goku, his friends, and the entire planet. My point is, as long as Toriyama invents a villain who wants to do evil for the sake of being evil, Dragonball will always have a "plot". But does it really? The stakes are often personal, but death is more of a minor inconvenience. So the primary penalty should our heroes fail (death, either their own or that of a loved one) seems rather trivial when there is a literal plot device that can *magically alter the plot at will* and erase the consequences of a failure state. The personal stakes typically weigh down to, "if you're going to hurt the people I care about, I'm going to kick your ass". It's why I think Raditz was so poorly implemented, because he's just killed so goddamn quickly and swept under the rug. Any other series would've had dire ramifications about the main character having an evil sibling, and that concept and story beat would've been fully explored, but in DBZ, it's used to create a "villain of the week" and any interesting consequences are swiftly dealt with and never explored again. So I don't foresee a character that was initially deep like Gohan ever being able to make a come-back. Toriyama would have to become an entirely different writer than he is now, or at the very least, shift and change the soul essence of Dragonball forever so that Gohan could have his moment to shine. He requires a dilemma between his dreams and his responsibility as a powerful fighter to call him to action, but ever since Goku returned to the spotlight I think that door is forever closed. Gohan has no reason to take action, simply because... his father will. The only reason Gohan was in the Tournament of Power was because it demanded 10 entrants per universe. If the requirement was 5 entrants instead, would Gohan have made the cut? What about 3? And even then, the conflict of the ToP arc is quintessential Dragonball. It's straight-forward and easy to follow; no tricks or storytelling focal points deep enough to compel Gohan to be a lead role.
Gohan was going to be the Protagonist going forward in Dragon Ball. But Toriyama does not plan out stories in detail and writes by the seat of his pants. Majin Buu was the Saga with the least editorial inference which might explain how over the place the story was. Toriyama's editors helped mold and channel his creative juices but without that he reverted back to his gag manga roots and Gohan was a victim of that. He probably wrote Gohan going to school because he though it was funny to see such a powerful character in a normal setting. I feel had Toriyama had an editor that would have hold him accountable to the story more we could have had a better arc for him. What if instead of Gohan growing weaker, he kept his training, not for the love of fighting but because he felt it was his responsibility to protect the Planet in place of his father. What if he went to school in a big city not just because his mom wanted to but because to be closer to the people he bow to protect. What if then Babidi went looking for the strongest warrior to extract his energy and went straight to Gohan and in the fight Babidi, or heck a revivied Buu destroyed the city he was meant to protect.
I love Super, but it pissed me off the 2nd most important character of DBZ became a side character. In some ways, Gohan was more of the protaganist than Goku in Z.
@@Drago7166 Vegeta was a big character in Z, but Vegeta never had his own mini-arc around his life, and in general didn't get as big of a spotlight as Gohan. Which makes sense because he was a villian for half the show. But for some reason, Super acts like Goku and Vegeta are the two only and most important main characters.
Orphan that’s because they basically are? What else does Gohan have to develop at this point? They’ve squandered the opportunity for him having a new character arc becoming a family man, but then again, Vegeta has already done that. So besides that there’s nothing Gohan can really do at this point besides becoming stronger and that isn’t really a stand out thing in Dragon Ball. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones that have the slightest interesting of growing stronger at this point because it’s them surpassing the gods and stuff. Dragon Ball has basically run all the characters arcs through and theirs not much to do at this point besides show interesting stories and make the characters stronger.
@@Drago7166 God, I hope you never try to become an author. If you think a character in a story only having one arc is normal, you are a moron. Just because Gohan doesn't have some painfully obvious thing to do next, doesn't mean they couldn't give him something interesting to do.
Orphan dude... don’t call me a moron. And what can they do for Gohan at this point? They’ve breezed through possible family problems and there’s no other confrontation to be had with other characters at this point because everyone is universal in power and Gohan is like galaxy level in power. It would be a total ass pull if they made Gohan billions of times stronger like that. And I never said characters can have only one character arc.
She pretty much is. Her entire purpose is as a running gag where one second, she's cute and demure, the next, OH SHIT, SHE HAS A GUN!! (Even though every protagonist was proven bulletproof from literally Chapter 1). As the series shifted from lighthearted adventure to raw fighting and power levels, the gag characters and even the non-Goku FighterZ (pun intended) all took a seat. If, by the Buu Saga, even Tenshinhan was largely absent, who even misses Launch?
Great Saiyaman Gohan is actually my favorite version of the character. I liked his story of being torn between having a normal life and being his father’s replacement. It would have been amazing if they ran with that story and had Gohan defeat Buu.
Eh... there's a LOT wrong with the Cell saga. Like, from beginning to end, there's no stop to the writing issues. And even Gohan's transformation is iffy because he has no connection to 16. It's the pinnacle of his character, and that's good enough.
@@Lyserg1260 Bullshit. Early DB is by far the most overrated part of the entire franchise. It has the worst art and animation on average out of all 4 series, a mostly forgettable supporting cast, mostly forgettable storytelling (before the Tien saga), just as many plot holes as Z, and FAR less character development overall. Only anime hipsters and contrarians think Early DB is 100% better than the rest of the series, even though it objectively isn't.
he became shit as adult, but i still have hopes for him.... i dont care if anyone says gohan is useless or bad, he can be the best when time's right...... i wish the alternate timeline gohan comes over and gives a slap to present one to provoke the great power comes great responsibility.. it'll be great!!!
I think Videl was great for his early story’s in the bu arcs she dragged gohan into the conflicts but now she doesn’t do anything to bring back gohan you need to bring back videl to because they worked off of each other so well
I think the universal tournament arc and him overcoming his flaws somewhat redeems him. His next character arc could be him becoming what the fan base has always wanted him to be.
the dynamic they have for Gohan where he loses his powers and then trains and returns as a badass, is pretty interesting to me. That build up leads to a great climax where you go from disappointment to astonishment
Don't foget to leave a like or dislike on this video! It really helps :)
So was I just in my criticisms or was I off the mark? Sound off below :)
Nah. Most forgotten is his little brother. Gohan is just rejected at this point
Totally Not Mark Great video
Easily one of your funnier vids. I appreciate this man. Holy shit you did Gohan and GT dirty lmaoooo
Ouch. That Ending tho.
Gohan was going to be the protagonist of Z until Goku was just too popular. Same with Vegeta, he was meant to be killed off.
When I was a kid watching DBZ I saw myself as Gohan, so it's fitting he grew up to be a disappointment
Yes yes and yes
oof.
mood
ITS BEACAUSE OF YOU!!!!!! YOU MADE GOHAN A DISSAPOINTMENT.
I feel that too. As a kid I felt like Gohan was me, and honestly it feels like Gohan is dead, adult Gohan is too different.
This is overall a problem with the dragonball series as a whole. Once a character goes through an arch, they stop doing anything and just sort of exist in the background.
Well what do you do with them once they're finished developing?
@@Shireikai Why must they finished developing? And if they are, why keep them around?
@@TheJadeFist They finished developing in Z. Their characters went from point A to point B already. The characters are kept around because people would be upset if they weren't around. I agree theyre handled poorly, but it's easy to criticize when you're not a writer. And/or you've never written a series quite to the magnitude of Dragonball
@@Shireikai Well, keeping them around and never using them, just makes them a waste. Other shows and even the Dragonball, had characters that did their thing and kinda went home, like that little native american-esque boy that lives at the base of Korin's tower.
Another series like Naruto made pretty good use of some of its side characters, there'd be times they are fighting or doing a mission without the main protaganist even around at all, and while I agree that it has a filler problem, they found ways to take side characters, flesh them out a bit and give them their own struggles.
Dragon Ball Super on the other hand, had some training episodes prior to a tournament in which Krillen resolves himself to get stronger and face his fears and Goku helps him through it. He doesn't actually get any stronger as far as it appeared, but he did learn a move. A more powerful Solar Flare... that he used in the tournement ... on the blind guy...
Cuz they revert back into Goku...Who has no character compared to Gohan,Vegeta,Piccolo,Trunks. Gokus development stopped once he turned SS
It just kinda feels like the gohan we should've gotten was the one that was in Future Trunk's timeline. that gohan just seemed so much cooler and somehow more memorable.
Possibly because a character more similar to Future Gohan is what should have resulted from the responsibility of taking on Cell, but instead he reverted back to what he was prior to that.
I actually like anime DB super gohan, but the manga DB super Gohan is better. He is still a family man but he knows how important being strong is, there is a reason why he puts the smack down on Kefla.
Future Gohan is cooler than even Cooler himself
I enjoy the idea of Gohan being far more powerful in a world where his only responsibility was survival and avenging his dead.
Nah I hate future Gohan because he's just the Piccolo of Future Trunks' perspective or even worse. The best possible Gohan that we could've had is the Buu Saga Gohan. Unfortunately, he just fell down towards the end of the saga just when we thought he'd surely be the main character.
Goku: the mislabeled
Gohan: the forgotten
Goten: the ignored
Man Toryiama really loves to give Goku's family terrible writing must be genetic lol
@@craigpeoples9883 i don't even think goku has bad writing,the fans make it seem like he has terrible writing
@@asun8148Well except in super
@@craigpeoples9883 yeah he's bad there but not terrible
@@asun8148Two words senzu beans
Having Gohan struggling with the weight of being Earths protector would have been a great storyline
It might have been more interesting to see that, compared to his unearthly dad, Gohan felt a sense of duty to protect and thus actually spent time learning the more spiritual side of ki and martial arts in training to become the guardian of Earth.
braiden45 people didn’t like it and they had to change it back
@Caramel Honey G Goku just fights for the fun of it. You'll only get hype in the fights and not really the character and story development side of it compared to if it's Gohan.
@@jamestran1634 agreed. Goku, while he fights to protect what he loves, doesn't really sacrifice anything. He runs from his family and skirts his regular life responsibilities to train and fight.
Gohan's tale could have been about the things he wants from life (education, family, social interaction), but must sacrifice to keep the world safe. Not a hero because he wants to be, but because he must be.
Exactly. Through Gohan, Toriyama could have explored the morality of a protector, that Goku never had to his character.
Not as forgotten as Goten. At least Gohan had a moment to shine. Goten is essentially the other Yamcha.
Vegeta also never got a proper chance to shine, he's never beaten a main anthagonist like Frieza, Cell, Majin Buu and etc
@@JamesSmith-wu1dd He is a beta so that's a given. His role is to beat up goons.
@@ElBandito Beta males are known to have a passive role and Vegeta is anything but passive
Yeah tell me about it, I have been waiting for his moment to shine ever since they introduced him as a character he my favorite character in the anime apart from teen gohan and goku. I even thought that Gt was about goten up until i saw the first episode.
Yeah sadly the only moment we got from him was when they did the family kamehameha against broly
I love Gohan. He was my favourite character from day 1. I wish they did him justice. I hope they can revitalize him somehow!
Yeah... Me too because he has a potential power to me....
@Mike nahh gohan deserves something as his own not to surpass gods or surpass goku he deserves more I honestly wanted gonna to be the main he was my fav since his first appearance
@Mike he deserves a new transformation soooo it your opinion dude
@Mike he just does u uppity bitch
He is still my fav
DBS was the one chance to give Gohan the spotlight after he was sidelined in the Buu storyline. But we got more Goku. Goku by the barrel full. And Vegeta. And more hair colors. And a purple jackal man. And Jiren.
Toriyama lost his ability to write good shonen possibly decades ago.
Dragonball cant hang with todays shonens. it sells primarly on brand recognition.
Oops! All Goku!
That purple jackal man is lord Beerus for you.
@@ma1ist Toriyama didn't write DBS, which explains why it's so crap and filled with flaws
Lord Beerus is a cat not a jackal.
Toriyama: I'm gonna make Gohan the main character
Toei and Japan:oh how about no or we break you kneecaps
Toriyama: I'm gonna kill off Vegeta
Toei and Japan: how about no or we break your kneecaps
Toriyama: I'm gonna keep goku dead throughout the buu saga so the other characters can get some praise
Toei and Japan: uhm how about no or we break your knee caps.
Buu saga had alot of flaws didnt it?
@@Cheizean Buu saga definitely had the best visuals but the content was the worst imo
Toriyama: I’m gonna have Vegeta kill Frieza in Resurrection F.
Toei and Japan: Or...hear us out...we break your kneecaps
how long is this myth going to spread. Toriyama decided to ditch Gohan on his own. He wasn't forced to by anyone.
>spends 80% of dbz building gohan up
>he doesnt matter in the end
80%??
More like 50%
Torogikamlon
He was literally one of the driving if not the main focal points for all of DBZ?
Yup every saga In Z showed the potential Gohan could reach if he tried, we all got hints that he would eventually become the strongest out of all the sayains. Toriyama groomed him for the special moment we all knew would happen just to change his mind at the very end. Pretty fucked up of him to make the character waste all those years of development.
Bs
@@Nestle245 really?
"you peaked"
"what?"
"You Peaked"
"You're Kidding!"
"Yeah, sorry"
"But, B-but I get stronger, right?"
"Yeah, but... no"
i know what your referencing my friend
Oh god, what episode was???
@@Laewlash Dbz Kai 3.5
gohan 1200 years later: shaggy help i cant get strong
shaggy: guru
el gohan blanco: super kami guru
@@ljuodelis DBZA Kai.
The Gohan I love, remember, and even choke up to every time I see is 11yr old just snapping at cell games. When the dust started to clear and everything stop shaking, you see him standing there, chin up, just surpassed every other Saiyan that ever existed. Lightning was flashing around his aura. Tears were flowing up instead of down. That is hands down my fondest memory of the story of Gohan.
It's funny that I feel attached to this idea, but I think enough characters promoted the idea of feeling responsibility, a pressure to do their calling. Especially with Japan's culture and climate, Gohan may have inspired people to fully lean into what gives them peace and "happiness", rather than embracing what they believe their duty/responsibility is.
And for that reason I believe he can’t be the main character of dragon ball. He doesn’t have the drive and sense of responsibility. And when he has the ability to win, he wastes it
i very much agree with you, but i don't rlly know what gohan likes even from GT or Super, i'd say it's more of a who and it's Piccolo. He was that dude because his Mom was enforcing her son to doo schoolwork while Goku was saying to follow my math and help protect this world and that's obviously frustrating for him but met Piccolo which is a third parent for him, like a good Uncle making him smart, wise, and strong.
Just goes to show that Toriyama has more in common with George Lucas than he does with Christopher Nolan.
Are you fucking serious? What about his bloody responsibilities as a father?! To ensure his family stays safe, Gohan should still train daily and save the world when it is necessary.
I never really thought about it like that 🤔
Always thought Gohan should had replaced Goku in importance. After the cell saga everything pointed to that at least.
Or in the very least, became an evenly powered character to Goku. *=/*
It was going to be that way, Gohan was going to be the main protagonist, since the start, after Goku's 24 hours passed he was done but the Japanese audiences riot about it and made Toriyama to come up with the most ass plot armor to bring Goku back to life
He was at that point a slightly more serious version of goku. But they ruined it.
Goku should have never come back from death in any way.
rossato
The only Gohan I would’ve liked as the main character would’ve been future Gohan. But the series couldn’t be carried by a Gohan
Here are three things I would have done to fix Gohan in the Buu Saga;
1: He doesn't slack off. He doesn't have to be strong enough to kill Buu outright, he just doesn't slack off. That way, when he gets his potential unlocked, it feels more sincere.
2: He's the one to kill Buu. Gohan was stronger than Goku at the end of the series anyway. You can still have Buu blow up the Earth, just have Goku go get Gohan to help with the fight.
3. He keeps learning. He became braver during the saiyan saga, and his fight with Cell taught him not to hold back when it gets serious. If he had extended that lesson, he could have had the role as 'reluctant hero who doesn't like to fight, but is ruthlessly efficient when he has to'. That's an angle nobody else in Dragon Ball has.
Point 3
*angry kid Gohan & teen Gohan noises*
People seem to think it's fine because Gohan achieved his dream as a scholar. But honestly, I think it'd be far more interesting with Gohan struggling with his dream as scholar and wanting to protect the people he loves and trying to find balance. Some think Gohan doesn't work as main character because he hates fighting unlike Goku but I disagree with them. Lot of warriors don't get joy for fighting but they only do it out of necessity, wanting to protect people they love. Goku finds thrill in battle unlike Gohan.
Future trunks has that angle
I'm okay with the slacking off. Damn it, I'm basically writing a fanfic and I feel dirty
There's options like King Yemma sending Vegeta back. Vegeta is a strategist, and realizes that he won't be able to beat Buu. His pride just got the beatdown of the century. Before King Yemma sends Vegeta back, Vegeta finds out that Gohan is in the afterlife, but still alive. Vegeta is frustrated at Gohan. He then visits him to take him to the Hyperglycemic Rhyme Chamber, but it's destroyed.
Supreme Kai is around and then Supreme Kais one into existence. Vegeta then flicks off Goku for being so useless, and then takes Gohan to work out his frustrations in the chamber
I think it would've been cool to see him take a more scientific, academic approach to his training. Goku and Vegeta, while geniuses in their own rights, seemed to just feel stuff out, almost as if out of instinct. Since Gohan was so well-read, I think it would've been cool to see him apply an almost Naruto-like analysis of how his power works and how he responds to different training styles.
The Problem With Gohan: Goku continued to exist. So instead of going forward with his new vision, Toriyama back regressed. Simple as that.
Buu saga was evidently a half assed effort to be creative. Neither did it do any good for story as a whole, nor for any motives in there...character development for gohan.
And did it again, and again, and again. To the point where we can’t have a character driven opera of a saga anymore, just goku and vegeta against the big bad.
Toriyama don't care about dragon ball. He just want to make some money
@@Derhone Toei/shonen jump want money.
@@Cash-Chris- Fake rumour. The true reason is that Toriyama thought that gohan was not suited to be a main character. Plus, people watch dragon ball because it's the story of goku not gohan.
"Hey gohan wanna do that thing where you get really mad and beat the guy up...gohan?"
"wanna see me do it again?"
"... dont you fucking ignore me"
Carlos Huerta what are you doin here
Gohan? Where'd you Gohan? O_O
I feel like TFS could still save him
You want a memorable adult Gohan ?
Future Trunks saga.
Nuff'said.
Honestly, Gohan should have gone through that sort of route in DBZ Buu saga
@@zonate6066 That was another time line
A whole saga from which
He just needs to lost his left arm.
Think about it.
In that timeline, he basically became the Piccolo of Trunks.
Even sacrificing himself to ensure Trunks stays alive, prompting the latter to go into full rage (which in this case, served as the trigger for his super sayan transformation).
A tragically beautiful way for Gohan to close the loop that started when he was a kid when Piccolo sacrificed himself to save him.
"I intended to put gohan in the lead role.
It didn't work out. I felt that compared to goku he was ultimately not suited for the part"
But after setting him up as the chosen one you somehow decided he was suited to being benched and treated like a meme after spending every previous episode building him up as the sayain equivalent to a nuke.
Good god toriyama.
Your a genius but your also a bit of a bint.
EDIT: wow this completely subjective criticism made some people mad.
It's almost as if he is the creator and can choose what happens to characters and how they grow and react, almost.
@@shadowshatto Creative authority doesn't excuse bad writing.
@@knicknevin9975 Lazy writing*
@@shadowshatto Not lazy; he put a lot of thought and effort into it. Just a mistake Toriyama knew he shouldn't build on and stopped. Hindsight is 20/20.
Had he written Gohan differently, he MAY have become the main antagonist, and the show MAY have been better for it. But he didn't, no point being sour over it.
@@jaredhall805 Toriyama is infamous for forgetting about major details of characters... at least, when he doesn't just forget about characters entirely.
The mismanagement of the Buu saga was quite honestly fixable all the way up to the point that Buu absorbed Gohan and Vegetto had to happen. Especially if small changes were made along the way:
if Videl had returned to the main plot after her death because Goku went and found all of the now dead main characters and brought them to where Gohan was with instant transmission - bonus points if she can share his power up in some way, like maybe if the Old Kai is convinced to power her up next because she's the strongest fighter there who can still be resurrected by Shenron or something.
If Gotenks had only pulled out Super Saiyan 2 to match Buu and break out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
If Gohan and Piccolo had been absorbed instead of Gotenks, enraging Gotenks enough to push himself to Super Saiyan 3 and take Vegetto's place.
From there, some major changes:
After saving Gohan and causing Buu to become Kid Buu, he and Gohan killed Buu. Unfortunately Buu, being a being of magic, is able to break away from the limitations usually placed on dead souls, and starts powering up to wreck Otherworld. Vegeta is brought forth to try and stop him, at which point Goku teleports to their position, grabs them both, and takes them back to the Supreme Kai in order to get Buu away from the innocent souls.
Some other changes at this point to accommodate for characters being in different places in this shuffle, most notably Hercule Satan, but overall the story can end the same way, with Goku Spirit Bombing Buu's soul in order to weaken him enough to push him through as a good-natured reincarnation.
Totally Not Mark: Son Gohan: The forgotten character
Launch: *Hold my beer.*
Wtf
Lol
Who?
Yeah that is true.
XD
Wolverine stroking a picture of Gohan is just the best.
"I need an adult"
@@-paganless2-432 "I am an adult"
Kratos GodOfWar no. No you are not
@@kratosgodofwar4313 You are a overgrown manchild
@@supergreninjagamer5835 This is the best insult I have heard in a while
We don't forget characters. *Toriyama* does
Susanoo and Orochi @Launch
@@elimichaud901 #16 (and #17 to a lesser extent) also #8 & Suno
That's waaay more on SJ
Susanoo and Orochi shounen jump I think
He forgets them so bad, he admitted to have forgotten that Saiyans had tails when asked why Goten and Trunks didn't have Saiyan Tails like Gohan did as a kid.
I always thought Gohan's character arc was to take him from being reactionary to being active or even proactive. Sadly, is seems like they didn't know how to make that transition. Gohan, after the Cell Games, should have been confident, assured of himself, powerful, and ready to step into conflict the second he sensed a potential problem. His struggle should've been with him missing school, failing tests because he missed them, and then him failing to save a life because he tried to be a good student and ignore his responsibility, similar to how Peter faced a lot of trouble because he stopped being Spiderman. Yes, this Gohan would not have been fully reactionary, they may have even written him to be proactive, but struggling to adapt to his new proactive attitude. Later, Videl would also get hurt because of Gohan, maybe even die at the hands of Buu, unleashing Gohan's true fury, and then Gohan would explode again, but lose. Then he would be given the powerup of the grand kai. He would be forced to meditate, and take on the role of a kai, sacrificing the life he wanted to become a guardian of the universe, not just earth, but coming to terms with this, and realizing that he could bring Videl back with the Dragonballs, but could not be with her, and that he must make that sacrifice to obtain the powers he needed to stop Buu. Now that would've made a difference. But have him be on par with Buu, and have Gotenks intervene to give Gohan the chance he needed to take Buu down, giving purpose to Gotenks and satisfying a role similar to Vegeta's role against Cell, maybe even have Gotenks team up with Gohan, so that Gotenks would step up to become more mature and the new earth guardian, while Gohan left to take on his role as a supreme kai. That is how I would rewrite it
loved that! Specially the part about becoming a kai and being forced to meditate and train far away from his happy life. Goku was the protector of Earth (very much like Superman, cough cough origin story), and Gohan, as his succesor (a succesful succesor unlike the one we got), would've become the protector of at least a galaxy. Also would give him a distinctive uniform so he doesn't look like Goku went to the barber; one which would be an honor to wear and would symbolize or prove his commitment.
@@Yarblocosifilitico Yes, thank you. I believe he should've received a clear, continued growth from where Goku left off. Even if he didn't become a kai specifically, him filling that role as a godly guardian would've been a great way to have his character come into his own and really succeed Goku in an evolutionary way. But I guess that's just fanfic at this point. Oh well
I like your idea, but I have one massive issue with it.
It by design writes Gohan out of the story. After becoming a kai, what exactly would the story be about? If he was the actual new main character, he needs to stick around much longer than one arc.
@@Lucifer_Nihilum Well, I wrote this with the idea that it would be the natural conclusion of the show. I basically see the entire series as the "Legacy of Goku". DB I saw as Goku's story with DBZ being Gohan's. I feel that the Buu arc threw Gohan's story away in the later half just for another Goku hero moment though. Looking back at it, I don't actually like the idea of Gohan becoming a Supreme Kai, but it made sense to me that Goku's legacy would be his son reaching his even greater potential than Goku had and if Goku was the "hero of earth", Gohan should graduate to a "hero of the universe" role. Heck, Goku actually did achieve that almost by accident with Freeza, so Gohan almost had to achieve equal heights. Think of it like this, if Cell was Gohan's Piccolo (or Vegeta) where Goku really solidified himself as Earth's Hero, then Buu should've been Gohan's Freeza.
That said, you could just change it so that Gohan did go back to earth, at the end of the story instead of taking the role as a supreme kai. I mean, Goku never replaced Kami, so it makes sense Gohan wouldn't need to replace a Supreme Kai. So his relationship with Videl could be left intact. I just was going for something a little more cinematic, and, really, the next universal level threat or threat on earth that may have been too much for Goten and Trunks could've reasonably called Gohan back to be the hero again. Lots of different ways the story could've gone.
@@Chronoflation yeah, that's understandable. I think Gohan traveling the galaxy saving people and preventing threats from reaching earth in the first place would have the most potential to be entertaining.
Man it really hurts me to say that all that Gohan's character development was for nothing. Cause he is a really my one of my favorite characters.
Tien is so forgotten, he should've been in this video but was forgotten.
Lmao Tien....yamcha... chao tzu...so true!
Anyone who wasn't SS got thrown under the bus by the end of the Cell Saga.
@@riven4121 that should be possible since that wouldn't be too much power for the Dragon.
@@riven4121 Shenron can not alter the nature of anyone stronger than himself or his guardian (Kami, Dende).
@@lukejones7164
But they can/could revive goku
Gohan was doing so well. He didn’t deserve what happened to him.
Peep and the big wide world
QUACK!
Didn't deserve what? A wife, a child, a job, and stop fighting like he wanted to
The fact that future trunk's Gohan was so much more memorable just shows how terrible his current state is.
We went from a literal kid blasting beams into the atmosphere to a scrawny guy in a jacket unable to fully hold off a wave of Frieza's goons.
At least Piccolo brought some of him back during TOP, aside from that the current Gohan is just disappointing imo. Android 17, wearing denim jeans got further than him in the tournament. Seriously?
@@MQhelper at this point I love to consider DBS as non canon for myself. For myself, dragon ball is canon until Ultimate Gohan beating Majin Buu before Buu absorbed Gotenks.
"Gohan wasn't even on the list, YAMCHA was on the list!!"
“Wait why me-“
Half time entertainment!!
Honestly? I'm just happy to be included.
Objectively, Gohan ssj2 and Cell saga just work because he was HEAVILY retconned during that saga finale:
- He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must help his father, because Raditz is clearly above him. There is a sense of responsability.
- He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must figth saiyans, because he is capable to protect earth and the ones he loves. There is a sense of responsability.
- He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must go to Namek, because he is capable to help his friends and feels the need to be the saviour lf those he failed to protect. There is a sense of responsability.
- He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must face Freezer on Eartg, because without his father, no one there could possibly face him. Even being weaker, he is sure that, at the very least, he must figth. There is a sense of responsability.
- He KNOWS and ACCEPTS he must train for the androids arrival, because they are warned about the menace they are and what terrible fate awaits them if they fail to protect earth. He, alongside his father and friends, must protect Earth and the future. There is a sense of responsability.
- "yeah no, my dad got this. Why sould I care?", "My dad just told me that I'm the only one that can figth Cell and my friends are dying, but I won't even try because I don't like figths, y'know what am I saying? lmao". Gohan didn't even tried figthing Cell, and he had realistic chances of winning WITHOUT ssj2. He was as strong at his dad at the very least, and if Goku had a good figth with Cell, why couldn't him? But suddenly, this 'but I can't figth" arc appears, and his sense of responsability present through his very first appearence in the series just... disappeared. Suddenly, he is an extreme pacifist who couldn't even raise a finger against someone, and I'm not talking about his explosive rage, of course not, I'm talking about his way of thinking. With or without rage, stronger or weaker, Gohan IS a figther who has morals and WILL jump into action to protect the weaks and endangered without a second thougth. Are we going to forget how he saves Dende from Dodoria? Are we going to forget ho he put his armor and flied to the dessert to figth Freezer if needed? Gohan is a figther pure of heart and 16's words do NOT develop his character, they just serve as a way to return to Gohan the very thing that makes him, well, Gohan, and this retconn in Cell saga (which happens specifically after he exists time chamber) stole from him. 16 words """"awakes"""" in Gohan a sense of responsability that he ALWAYS had, but lost somehow, somewhere, through his training with Goku. It's not wrong, actually works really good (well kinda. I will talk about how Cell saga funnt enough ruins his development in Cell saga. Somehow that happens), but works JUST if it has a motive. Gohan has zero reasons to lose his sense of responsability always present in the series, his proactive behaviour to protect others, the acceptance of his role as a guardian, that's just gone in some point of his training. You can argue that he training with Goku makes him believe he is no needed, and his guardian role is not there because he doesn't need to protect anyone, Goku will. That's wrong because, well, in Saiyan Saga Piccolo is stronger and we know by a fact Goku WILL be revived, so he also doesn't need to train, but still does. Actually, he doesn't even need to train in cell saga because, as long as he knows, Vegeta and Trunks are in their way to obliterate Cell (Vegeta may f*** up, but Trunks could never, and Gohan knows it well because he spents a lot of time with Trunks), so he should be safe even without Goku but, again, juat like in Saiyan Saga, why would he just stop caring? Gohan always cares for others, even if he is not the last/only one to figth. Needless to say, his unpredictable rage does not serve any purpouse in what I exposed, that's more relative to how impulsive he migth be and his power, bit definiteky doesn't affect his morals and I won't explain why because there is no much more space to write in this comment lmao
A promise is a promise. Here we go:
After 16 "develops" Gohan, or "de-retcons" him objectively better said, Gohan goes ssj2 (we won't talk about ssj2 as a transformation today, just Gohan itself) and becomes the saviour everyone needed. He gets cocky (which is an organic progression for a character that always fails to protect those in danger. For the first time, Gohan is actually in control. He doesn't just want to end it, he wants to make Cell suffer for what he has done, and that's something natural for some that has seen evil and hate all his life, but unnable to do anything about it), Cell explodes, Goku dies, Cell comes back (we won't talk about how Cell being alive and, even worse, in his Perfect form doesn't make sense, just Gohan itself) and Gohan, still in his saviour role, takes a blast to protect Vegeta, being heavilt damaged in the arm in the process. Here, Gohan DOES have development and decides to take things seriously instead of playing around, but for some unknow reason he starts with the "boo-huu, I can't protect them. I failed. Poor of me, watch me cry" stuff again, like he never heard 16 words. Yes, we can blame it on his sense of responsability I just mentioned before and feeling guilty for Goku's death but, remember, Gohan is HAPPY to see Cell because he can take his revenge. This feeling of being useless just exists so Goku can save the day again, acting as a 16 speech 2.0 and telling Gohan from the other world "c'mon big boi, you can do it uwu". Yeah, he should know goddamit, that's what 16's death was for, my god, that last part of the figth was SO unnecesary because it's just a forced way tp give Goku relevance even when he is not there. At least, if he is going to doubt about himself (which he shouldn't because that's the opposite of what happens when he sees Cell), they should have write it so, I don't know, someone (alive or, why not, even Goku) remembers him what happend before and remembers him what 16 asked, but making it like if Goku's advice is what gives Gohan the courage to figth... that just doesn't work. Gohan through the saga lost himself, then recovered himself, then lost himself again and finally recovered himself AGAIN in like 3 episodes. That's when you just say "please, stop". Now, here is the thing, and a really controversial one: Gohan's peak character was his Great Saiyaman arc. Let me elaborate in the next response, just so it's more organized
See, here is where all that emphasis about responsability I talked about before takes place. Unlike any other character, Gohan doesn't figth for money/fame/prices, he doesn't figth because he wants to become stronger and he certainly does not get exited with figthing. This last thing is EXTREMELY important for Gohan's character and is consistent from Saiyan to Cell saga (we are not talking about Buu saga yet), and what changes (and I criticized) in Cell saga is his motive: he does not get exited for figths, yeah cool, but before Cell saga he ALWAYS fougth when necessary (even his future version btw). Now, what is important here is that very key component to his character, he figths for those in need, not because he wants to. Gohan, as a character, has ALWAYS wanted to be a scientist and live an academic life, even tho nostalfanZ don't want to accept it. This is explicitely stated in his manga introduction, where Toriyama himself, through the narrator, clearly states "This is Son Gohan. He is 4 yeara old and he wants to be a great scientis when he grows up". This shows what people refuse to accept and we must mention before talking about the Greay Saiyaman: ChiChi DOES NOT influence in Gohan's decision about being an academic, and she being strict responds to her being a good mother that knows that Gohan will only achieve HIS OWN and PERSONAL dream of being a scientist if he studies hard, but at no point in the story ChiChi forced nor influenced Gohan's motivations (this also shows in the many times ChiChi tried to stop Gohan from figthing and he still did figth). The reason why I firmly say Great Saiyaman is Gohan's peak as a character is because he is working hard in his all-life-long personal dream while embrasing his self-imposed duty of guardian and protector of those in need. He is quite literally a beloved superhero, he is famous and could win all the money he wants, but that's not his goal. Great Saiyaman is a mysterious warrior, unknown but beloved, because Gohan does what he does because he feels it like his duty. He doesn't care for fame, so he protects his identity, because that's what ALWAYS moved Gohan and that's what always has been his character: a hero for the people in danger. He, unlike all the others, doesn't want to test himself, he doesn't want to prove anything, doesn't want to figth, but he needs to, he has to figth because he is strong, and weak people need strong heroes. I strongly disagree when people say Gohan's arc ends in Cell saga and that could have been his end, he evolving into the Great Saiyaman to preserve peace is the end of his character, where he reached a perfect BALANCE between who he WANTS to be and who he NEEDS to be. Sure thing he stopped training (for 7 entire years 💀), but that's because he doesn't want to get stronger, and the world was at peace, but still he was still hella strong, and he was using that strength to protect that world his old friend 16 loved. Now, people hate Great Saiyaman (and most elements of Buu saga) because it feels "too clownsy" (no idea why are you watching a Toriyama's anime if you don't like that. Sounds to me that you didn't watch DB and skipped directly to Z where his editors forced him to write what they wanted and restricted like half of his liberties btw 💀), and they feel like Great Saiyaman is a downgrade to the badassery of Gohan. But, do you need to be a muscular, oiled man covered in blood and dust to be a good character? We are not watching an 80's Holywood movie. This is Gohan we are talking about, not Arnold Schwarzenegger. As a great hero once said: "A Hero does not just save lifes, but also hearths", and that's what he was doing. It could (and should) have ended there but...
Turn on the music and the ligths. Everyone's silent in expactation as the funniest clown on this circus enters the stage. Drums pleeeeease!!! Introducing: Mystic Gohan!!!! Terrible power up, the most stupid in the franchise (if you believe Golden Freezer is bad because in 4 months of TRAINING he reached LESS than what Goku and Vegeta reached in 15 years, just you wait til you see how Gohan got way, WAY STRONGER than what Goku and Vegeta could in 7 years with 0 seconds of training and a MAGICAL RITUAL made by a magical man introduced just to perform this magical a**pull in 24 hours), horrible conclusion to the character (he kinda figths again, but not really because the plot drives us into thinking Gotenks is going to figth, and before you say it's because it's a buildup to Gohan's future participation where Gotenks just acts as a bridge, well, you know it's not true because Gohan acomplishes nothing in that figth and the saga finishes completely different and unrelated to Gohan. This eliminates all of that guardian stuff and responsability to morph him into another brainless saiyan excited for figths. Even worse, in the very end of Z, when Uub appears, we are said that Gohan, again, stopped training/figthing. Don't ask me what was his purpouse in Buu saga's plot then, I don't know, and he also stopped being the Great Saiyaman, so all the balance and protector stuff, the"promise" to 16 included btw, dissapears) and worst of all, he suffers a regresion in general, not only in this "responsability as a protector" stuff I'm talking, but also in his figthing development (he, once again, gets cocky and wants to make Buu suffer, just like with Cell. Before ir made sense, but now? You are no longer a 14 years old unexperienced idiot Gohan, you know what happens when you don't finish the job you moron. LITERALLY 0 development from his experience with Cell was made). Mystic Gohan as a whole ruins what Great Saiyaman achieved.
In conclusion, "Gohan doesn't enjoy figths and he has always wanted to be a scientist" (the sentence in "" is not an opinion, this is stated in the canon) but he has always jumped into action to help others, and that's what Gohan is written around. He is a good man with a pure heart, destined to help people. That's why I believe his arc ends in the higgest note possible with his selfless actions under the mask of the Great Saiyaman, while also giving himself the time to be what he wants to, as it is he perfect balance between his motivations and people's expectations on him, flawlessly mixed with his morals and ideals, and it's obvious to me that the brigth colors and the ridiculous poses don't let people see how beutifull of a development it is, the extreme opposite of a "downgrade" to Cell saga's Gohan as most people call it. Damn it, I would even say ending Gohan's arc in his Great Saiyaman phase is, at the very least, as good as ending Vegeta's arc in his Majin Vegeta era, and I don't regret saying it. The fanbase pushing for Gohan being the warrior he never was, born from the enormous misunderstanding about his character, is what ruined Gohan, and it won't matter if he becomes a warrior with his Beast transformstion in Super, or if he retires completely from figthing like in the end of Z and all of GT, not even if he constantly trains to become a full-time warrior in fanmangas like Kakumei/AF, his character just can't be as good as he could if he stops being the Great Saiyaman (and considering the reception that idea had in the fandom, and how hated that part of his writing is, I doubt we will se him again in the costume, unfortunately).
To be fair, Toriyama forgets every character that isn't Goku
(Edit: typo)
Druhrfe Hadishia don't get your hopes up. It seems, with the new staff of life long fans that they are just writing every character into the memes they remember them being.
Vegeta one step behind and Gohan as a wimp are what the fans remember from Z and now the fans are writing the story not adding much new.
I think it's the only desease and everything else is just the symptoms.
Transformation over use and all.
I still remember Launch
Tien was always my favorite adult character in DBZ. Shame he's on the back burner now.
Goku should have teached Kaioken to Ten Shin Han and Krilin long time ago
@@SCRaetz What are you on about, he's shit in DBZ. He was only good in Dragon Ball.
the most relatable Z fighter. Shows great promise at a young age but becomes unremarkable in adulthood.
This comment deserves more likes
Just like most child geniuses.
You know. Those kids that go to math Olympics or are in a band or are champions of some sport.
This comment is so stupid Gohan is the strongest he's ever been in super and he is a great father with a loving wife and a seemingly vary well paying job how is he unremarkable
Well, not everyone is interested in discovering their true potential. Some people are just interested in doing things that don't have anything to do with their potential.
The Wolfgang Mozart of the Dragon Ball series.
*Gohan* : I wonder what is next for me
*Piccolo* : You peaked
Still my favourite from the beginning to Cell. His evolution until then was enormous. Plus he was the most realistic and emotionally intense
He was my favorite too. He had a lot of cool moments.
Like how he injured raditz when the others could not.
And fought frieza on an alien planet at 5 years old!
And he (non canon) beat garlic jr.
Went ssj2 first.
And beat cell with one arm. Even after cell powered up, he never stood a chance!
Only cool thing he did afterward is pull the z sword out and fight super buu (a lil bit). They turned him into Yamcha and it bothers me to this day.
The argument that Gohan "not fighting" in the show is him being true to himself, I think is a shallow argument. Wanting a character to take part in the story isn't the same thing as that character betraying who they are. Gohan didn't want to fight in the Saiyan arc, Namek arc, Freeza arc or Cell arc. But he did so anyway because he felt he had to or should.
Characters in stories almost always do things they don't want to do. That's called conflict.
Honestly, I believe gohan had plenty of potential, but he didnt waste it. Maybe he reached his maximum? He tapped into the brink of rage and learned to control it. Could there be any more than that? I believe gohan was aware that he only could get stronger through training, but knew he already had that off the bucket list, so instead, went through the path his mother wanted.
Not to mention his climax in the cell arc was him ACCEPTING the need to fight, and reconciling it and his passive nature. Gohan just not participating because "other people can do it" is literally going against the best development his character ever received. He just wanted other people do do it, his whole life, and up to cell killing 16, he kept trying to shirk the responsibility, but 16's death and the peril his friends were in gave him the push to accept that he needs to take a stand.
I like that super toward the ToP at least attempted to have Gohan understand that he needs to be a warrior and defend the earth so he can have a family in the first place, its a step in the right direction. He just needs to have some form of agency where he can be a more clever, if slightly weaker counter part to Goku and Vegeta, a kind of middle-ground to ending conflicts quickly like vegeta, still giving mercy like goku, and being able to give some tactical advice. I think that's his best niche, a jack of all trades, since hes had life learning interactions with all of them growing up.
Totally Not Mark okay why would he, when he was forced from the beginning now he is not
heck, even at the end of anime rof, he understood that while he didn't want to, he'd at least try to train to be able to protect his family (one of the best moments in an otherwise horrible arc)........................and then is unable to do anything for the next 2 arcs because the plot made it so that he couldn't (at least he was handled semi-well in the ToP, but I feel that there was something missing, it was like if they were setting up some conflict with him early on but didn't go through)
I understand he doesn’t love fighting but I think he has a responsibility to do it. He’s been dealing with world destroying beings since he was a toddler. You think he’d be prepared for anything. He doesn’t have to fight 24/7 like his Dad, but he can still moderately train.
*Finishes DBZ* “Wow they built Gohan up so much I can’t wait to see what they do with him!”
*Twenty episodes into DBS* “What’s a Gohan?”
Dbs sucks
lunch
*snorts cocaine* what the FUCK is a Gohan?
Gohan? As in rice?
Listen once he grows back his hair GG BOYZ ITS OVER
"That version of Gohan is gone, and he isnt coming back" Well that didnt age well considering DBS Super Hero
Fr lol
@@Dozerz its so exciting that Gohan and piccolo are finally getting recognition as powerful people. i just hope they boost Tien a little bit as well. ive always loved tiens character
WHAT DO YOU MEAN, GRANDPA GOHAN IS EPIC AND UNFORGETTABLE!
Blackscape
+
ゴ ゴ
ゴ JOJO ゴ
ゴ ゴ
Wow. A My Hero Academia Vigilantes profile pic.
“GOHAN IS THE STRONGEST IN THE UNIVERSE, BUT STILL DOESN’T DO CRAAAAAAP!”
Firecraker “BULMA AND VEGETA HAVE A BABY!!!!”
GOTEN AND TRUNKS BECOME ONE GUY
I DONT KNOW WHAT TO SAY!!!!!!!!!
CELL REACHS HIS PERFECT FORM
Whis is the strongest
Gohan was like one good kamehameha away from being the best character. All he had to do was kill Buu
The best ending to the Buu saga was Vegeta's sacrifice actually ending up killing Buu for me. It would have been a much better arc and would have made Vegeta that much more legendary.
Gohan is probably the most developed character.
@DarkEternal6 no it wasn't that's just your lame opinion dbz is great from beginning to end
@DarkEternal6 the one crying here is you man "someone called my opinion lame waaa waaa, I don't like the majin boo saga waaa waaa" haha just kiddin' take care bro, I was just pointing out that was just your lame opinion settle down it's not a big deal
Nah, that would have been extremely dissatisfying if that happened. He had no build up to that point, they just pulled a power up out of his ass. Plus, everyone would still be dead if he killed Buu right then and there
That moment. Gohan: "No, it's not too late. Move... I said MOVE!" AND THAT MUSIC!!! 1:02
I am adamantly searching for that music and I need to know it
Found it. ruclips.net/video/xuXwiN5mLYY/видео.html
Doppelgänger by the isosceles project
I'm surprised there hasn't been a video talking about the relationship between krillin and Gohan. I felt like they always worked together well in the scenes they had together, and I'd say hes the one character hes fought alongside the most. I could be remembering wrong as I'm only going through dragon ball z for the second time. Just a thought on how I think krillin had almost as big of an impact on gohan as piccolo.
I think the best way to bring Gohan back is with Pan. Pan should be an active character who needs guidance and her father should be the one to do it.
well, we need another timeskip for that to happens, maybe about 10 years..
I can just about imagine how that would go.
Pan: "Look, dad! I found a baby space deer!"
Gohan: "No. Just no."
This comment was brought to you by the "How was that okay even back then?" Foundation.
@@gepettogreco Not to drift from the conversation but go watch a couple RUclips videos of baby deer, that's exactly what they do.
I think an arc where goten, trunks and pan are trained by gohan and piccolo to enter the worlds martial arts tournament would allow for exploration of these characters that usually stay on the side
Replace a male character's role with a female? What could go wrong?
Gohan was - is - and always will be my favorite character
My man udbhav
UDBHAV SINHA me too
Mine is goten
Faxs
My favorite character is gohan as well, But the child of the main protagonist is usually always my favorite character
The way you described Gohan’s move from a reactive character to an active one, at 5:20, practically answers your following question on its own: From there, Gohan must learn just how active he should be in the protection of others. At what point does he step from protective to over protective? Active versus over active?
I'd take a line from the one aspect of GT I enjoyed.
I'd have Gohan travel the galaxy protecting the galaxy as a whole, from various threats. Getting an idea of how powerful and big the universe is.
Gohan is a serious character, who benefits the most from a serious story. Lighthearted moments would be there, but there would be little to no comedy outside filler.
I'd also explore his adolescence, he's a teenage saiyan traveling the stars. No parental supervision, nothing limiting him but himself. It would do well to establish his own morals clearly so it is clearer when they are tested. I liked Videl, but as a romantic interest she is not particularly optimal for Gohan or his new arc. I think her existence and personality was a callback too Chichi's original character.
The Father and Son Kamehameha was the best moment in the entire show!
I know Gohan never liked to fight, but after the Cell Saga he should had learn that he must take the responsibility of being strong to protect the world after his father's death.
The thing is, there wasn't any real danger though for him to fight UNTIL the Buu saga, which he eventually gets even stronger sooo...
@@churrocharcharm but vegeta always said to him keep training and gohan didn't give a fuck soooo...
@@churrocharcharm That's just them being lucky, because that could easily change just like always.
After the Cell saga, the series went to hell.
@@churrocharcharm right but somehow 17 became a god fighting of poachers. Toriyama fucked it up by doing a timeskip and having the character regress.
Do one for Goten and Trunks: "The wasted potential"
or one for Piccolo:"The abandoned character"
Ha, if Piccolo was abandoned, what is launch/lunch?
NessahWey she is literally the forgotten character 😂
I agree with that. There is definitely wasted potential there. Kid Trunks and Goten aren't really fully developed characters. Future Trunks had struggle. Future Trunks had a goal. Future Trunks would have done ANYTHING to save the world from the androids. What is Kid Trunks' motivation? Why does Goten have no unique attacks of his own?
Dahryl B i loved the idea that the sons of goku and vageta are best friends despite the fact that their fathers despise one another and also seeing the difference in kids trunks who was raised by vageta compared to future trunks who was raised by bulma. But they barely did anything with them in super. It would've been cool to see them further develop their friendship and get stronger together but they were completely wasted.
I’m still waiting for trunks and goten to be teens and have there own arc that would be cool and make sense but I don’t think it will happen
I liked Gohan at school. Its like a discount Danny Phantom
Danny Phantom was made after dumbass.
@@rambopack9140 whoa calm down there fanboy
@@retroquester6008 he’s not wrong though it was made after
@@rambopack9140 Plot twist:Danny is actually Discount Gohan lmao
"Story cannot be told by a protagonist who doesn't want anything, and can't make decisions." ~Jon Snow~ :D
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING
Tell that to any hero that starts off as an adolescent. Plus, by not making a decision you DO make a decision. You end up deciding not to decide.
@@chillaxboi2109 name a famous story where a character doesn't want anything
mark: "Gohan wasnt on the list"
TFS Cell: "YAMCHA WAS ON THE LIST"
O m l
I was searching for this comment
Lol halftime entertainment
Yamcha: Wait why was I-
Cell: HALFTIME ENTERTAINMENT!
Yamcha: ...Frankly, I'm just happy to be included.
Ki kou how ya doing?
Gohan was that perfect balance of savagery and compassion. The thing I can't stand about Goku, is his inability to realize the gravity of situations, and let's dudes go if "they promise to be good" or something. Gohan is the kind of guy who might say to back off before anything happens, but once the fight starts, he goes for the kill. I believe it was Lord slug where it showed that well. Obviously the cell saga, as well as the ToP arc, when he caused a universe to disappear. He showed good resolve there. He said he will find his own way of gaining power, so it'd be pretty cool if instead of god powers, he was trained by someone capable of "mythic" powers, which can rival the Gods. Like a rogue mythic user that the gods couldn't control, so they left him be, and he had been looking for a successor to his powers, and after observing Gohan, felt he was the right choice. Then Gohan can have a more "protector" role. So he will react to threats within his solar system, and may go out to actively take out future threats with Goku. He'd have a sort of, doctor strange role within the universe
Damn that would be sick!!!
@@Garahan I couldn't agree more.
Somebody hire this man
I can dig this.
I'm down to see that
This is why I consider the end of the Cell's arc the official end to the show. Seeing Gohan just drop off afterwards is like watching your favorite athlete win the gold medal in the Olympics and then they immediately let themselves go physically.
facts!!!
I was going to make the same statement. Everything after Cell was just wash, rinse, repeat money making entertainment. All GOOD stories must end when they should. Otherwise it's just disservice to the teaching value.
Took 3 years, but at least the hopes you had at the end came to fruition. Let’s just pray we’ll see it for more than just a few moments within a single movie and far more like it for the future to come.
Basically, Toriyama and his editors didn't have the balls that Araki had with JoJo to not be afraid to just move on with new protagonists. It was almost clear by the ending of the Cell Saga that Gohan should've become the new protagonist, but no, we had to get Goku back.
Clayton Bigsby that wasn’t worth what they did to Gohan.
Did you watch the last half of the video?
Matheus Moreira it’s because the fans liked goku and Vegeta better
still
moving on with protagonists takes a risk
take a look at jotaro for example
Matheus Moreira jojo is a different thing. not comparable to DragonballZ. Goku was the protagonist for like 300 episodes. That’s different then when Jojo changes characters every part
I just sat through a 15 minute video about Gohan and Future Gohan was not brought up ONCE! CRIMINAL!!!!!
Cuz thats not "our" Gohan. Its a different Gohan from a different Timeline and as many say not the dissapointment this video is about.
Yeah, I don't think Gohan was ever supposed to be an adult character. Toriyama didn't think that far ahead. Gohan was like a chemical reaction. He shined brightest at cell, but after that he faded into nothing. In a way, I think Goten was initially intended to be Gohan 2. That obviously didn't go anywhere though. It's truly The Goku Show now.
When Gohan goes from a weak, crying kid that needs to be protected all the time to the beast that defeats Cell, it was so awesome. Because, as other comments said, as a kid you would identify with Gohan (even if just subconsciously). Of course your favorite was Goku or Vegeta, but as an ideal to become. Gohan was you.
It's just good writing because the target audience naturally puts themselves in his shoes, like when we read Harry Potter and fantasized about being a mage and all. In DB you know if you were put in that Universe, you would be Gohan. Which is why it was so cool when he finally powered up. Which is also why (I think) his arch went into a normal life arch, going to colledge and playing superhero from time to time.
I felt the same way. We all liked goku and vegeta. But really, (early 2000's when I saw it on toonami) it was gohan that was basically "us" in the show. He was the one that was amazed at the speed they were fighting and couldn't see, he was the one thrown into this crazy world of super powered people, he was half human, he went to school, not the others. He was most relatable. That only makes them ruining him even WORSE. He was also growing up with the audience for several years. Remember he was 4, then 5, then 8, 9 years old etc
@@chillvibed yeah so much wasted potential, it's a shame. In my head canon the true adult Gohan is the future one who trains Trunks.
It still makes some sense to give Gohan a more normal life but they overdid it by a lot.
Son Gohan: The Forgotten Character.
Does that make Grandpa Son Gohan even more forgotten?
He needs to make a video about Grandpa Gohan
Who?
@@nappyboi3968 god damned owls
Blond hair and blue eyes is ssj Anyangwe watch dragon ball then you’ll get it
We will never forget him. If Grandpa Gohan hadn't found baby Goku, he would've bee eaten by something...
...I mean come on, it's a baby...
I was alright with Gohan at the of DBZ and when GT came out, I was devastated what they did to him... So when Super was announced I was really excited to see Gohan possibly become a badass character again.... life sucks sometimes lol
Thanos: Reality is often dissapointing
@Jonny Croxville never forget future gohan, the best gohan
@Jonny Croxville He was a child for freaks sake.
Read the DB super manga, Gohan is a fucking Chad
Toward the middle of ToP he became sort of a badass.
Glad to see gohan finally get his well deserved spotlight
dude ikr. when he said "Gohan needs to be provoked to react", i literally thought about the whole plot to Super Hero. i always believed Piccolo and Gohan were the most underrated characters. Along side Tien
I grew up with dragon ball z and Gohan was my favorite character, I started watching when he showed up. It just disappoints me that he went nowhere
I love gohan in the buu saga.
I like the slice of life high school life. Gohans nerdy yet serious demeanour was a nice change from gokus childish behavior. Having old characters like piccolo and vegeta didn't do anything bad. It complimented having trunks and goten. The old guard and new guard. Gohan taking gokus place. Gohan was and is a person the audience could relate to the most. Which is why he is and will always be my favorite.
I think future trunks is more relatable.
@The101nega the episodes when Gohan went to school are one of the best episodes ever!
This Is what I call a Gohan fan.
@The101nega you're a joke
@@davontihoward1864 nah fam, hes right...
gohans a shit character
Gohan is not forgotten, he just has a really famous dad.
Piccolo isn't THAT famous to be honest
sure he's renowned but compared to Goku, Piccolo is like the 2nd fiddle before Vegeta arrival
Piccolo was the Vegeta before Vegeta
If anything, GOTEN is the forgotten one
Nah he was forgotten
@Kirl C nah. I like it this way tbh. But gohan shouldn't be as worthless as he is in super. You se I liked gohan in the Buu arc, but again I wish he did more... I don't want him to replace goku or vegeta. I want him to be up there like krillin was in db or be a strong side character like when he gaught frieza. Just be good enough too play a major role in an arc, but not take all the spotlight.
the timidity and gentle nature of both gohan and broly is something i wanna see toriyama explore
Gohan was my favorite character as a child, I identified myself with him. To see how he was pushed to the side was truly disappointing.
We saw who he was supposed to become, and we'll never see that.
One of the biggest problems with adult Gohan's character was that he became weaker. Cell changed Gohan so drastically that the lessons Gohan learned would be burned into his heart. It would have made much more sense for him to have spent that seven year gap training with Piccolo and even Vegeta to prepare for the next big threat, all the while not neglecting his studies.
You could have had the Goku/Vegeta fight release Buu, then Gohan absolutely bodies Fat Buu and the story continues with the theme of an exaggerated threat until Buu absorbs him. That would have led to the same tense situation of "Gohan has been killed, Goku only a few hours left, and it's up to Vegeta to end this", but without disparaging the character of Gohan.
This this right here this makes sense tbh could have have still got Vegito heck maybe even a Making Vegito and oooo yea no one would have had to watch buu insta kill the planet in 2.5 seconds
You need to be hired.
someone pass this person the script
gwem321701 what lesson that goku is a dick head who fucked over the world and having a shitty chathatic moment is better than actually training to become better fuck off.
This would have trivialized training. Gohan after Cell was a hobby martial artists who played superhero in his free time. His real effort was in his studies. Gohan never wanted to be protector of the earth. He was thrusted into that role by those around him.
I appreciate you pointing out that Gohan going back to being the "badass warrior" he was at the end of Cell is never going to happen. It really wouldn't make sense for him to. Your idea of him making sacrifices in his normal life to continue being the protector of Earth would be a lot more natural.
Are you the one who draws the thumbnails too? They look really nice.
Chubomik Z so what you’re saying is that this will actually give Dragon Ball some good writing material and good character development ? Something they try to avoid like the plague because Goku and Vegeta buddy cop dynamic ?
He is. He posts them on twitter a couple days after these videos go live. A short while before he started these character analysis videos, he posted a picture he'd drawn of Raditz in Toriyama's Saiyan arc art style. He seems to be going for that sort of style with these thumbnails, with the exception of Freeza, who was drawn very similarly to how he first appeared in the Manga in that form.
I'm very fond of the art style myself; more often than not, the late-Z art style is used in Dragon Ball videos where possible (or, God forbid, something resembling the majority of Super's art), so it's nice to see the softer style get some love.
@@ElPresidenteMargz YES
@@ElPresidenteMargz personally, I enjoy the buddy cop dynamic. Vegeta is my favorite character, and I think this series does him justice, in many ways more so than DBZ did. His character's dignity is sacrificed for the sake of jokes too often for my liking, but overall he's seems to be respected by Toryiama, now. I do agree that the other characters get the shaft, most notably Piccolo, Tien and Gohan. Why they made Android 17 so strong and left Tien and Pic in the dust, I'll never know.
Matthew Whitworth Vegeta and gohan are some of my favorite characters and goku is at the bottom so I know what you mean. I get frustrated when the series sacrifices development and good writing to give priority to a boring stoic new “enemy” (Jiren, Cumber) and goku to be the be all end all with a new transformation out the ass.. to me personally Mastered Ultra Instinct was the worst thing they could have done .. goku is just a boring Gary Stu while more interesting characters get pushed to the side ..
yeah 17s new power makes like NO SENSE ! you know who else has been training non stop in desolated wastelands for years? Piccolo and Tien !! but I don’t see the series giving them a huge power boost but all the sudden 17 gets one ? Lol
Fun fact for those who didn't catch this part in the video:
Akira Toriyama was originally intending for Gohan to take over as the main protagonist after the Cell Arc, but instead found issue with this and decided ultimately that Goku would return to take over again. This is what may have caused the decline in Gohans importance throughout the narrative, because Akira probably wasn't sure of what to do with him.
I feel like Adult Gohan should have been a parallel to Goku, and it almost seems like that's what they were going for in the Buu Saga. Lemme explain;
- Goku started out living a humble, simple life, wanting nothing else than to live peacefully.
- Gohan is now living a humble, simple life, wanting nothing else than to live peacefully.
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- Goku is forced into the story because Bulma wants to take the 4-star dragon ball, that Goku is extremely protective over.
- Gohan is forced into the story because Videl, threatens Gohan's secret identity, that Gohan is extremely protective over.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- Goku fights a significantly more powerful opponent, while learning of an even more powerful opponent in the process.
- Gohan fights a significantly more powerful opponent, while learning of an even more powerful opponent in the process.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- Goku trains with King Kai and unlocks a new power in the Kaio-Ken and Spirit Bomb.
- Gohan trains with The Supreme Kai and unlocks a new power in the Ultimate Form.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
You see? it almost seems like they were setting up for Gohan to quite literally be the next Goku, going through very similar story beats that Goku did both in Dragonball and Dragonball Z. But it never worked out, and Goku was put back in the spotlight quickly after.
Heh. An ad popped right as Gohan fell to frieza's punch for life insurance.
*#lolz*
I got one for thanks vs everyone in future fight.... Basically the same idea as the video right lol
Frieza desperately needs that insurance ffs. He's died too many times
"Gohan as the main character doesn't work"
*Makes Broly vs Gohan movie as one of the best movies and with the best fights.*
Oh hell yes. Every alternate version of Gohan is great because he has the same sense of duty he had during the namek saga. He didn’t waste it like cell and buu
Although, he really couldn’t carry the show. Characters with a round arc are hard to make work in a longer series
McFuckin AnotherAccount r u sure about that. In the end who saves the day. *cough cough* Goku
Joe Doe that was just fan service though, but all in all even Goku wasn’t powerful enough to take him out, he had help too
@@GokuInfintysaiyan Gohan can totally carry the show, people just think otherwise because they're used to terrible writing.
Very few things are ever impossible in writing, it's just that people love to suck the dicks of the writers of their favorite franchises and pretend that no one else understands or can do a better job than they can.
@@Lardo137 The problem is that Gohan's character arc is over. There's really nowhere else for his character to go. As opposed to the flat character Goku, who can and still is carrying the show to this day.
I really liked adult Gohan. He was powerful like Goku but he was much wiser. I would’ve loved it if “The Great Sayaman” head encountered a REAL threat instead of some robberies and an escaped dinosaur so that he was forced to regain his power. Or maybe if Vegeta had invited him to train during the time between Goku’s death and the beginning of the new ark, this way both Gohan and Vegeta would’ve been stronger and then go off from there.
"Mishandled Piccolo". Hmmm, I don't know what you mean, but if these videos keep coming out, I guess I'll know.
I think that refers to how he was phased out in terms of power and how half his development was caused by him fusing with other characters.
Noah M. Schneider Indeed, and it’s why I’d like to see his analysis later
"Mishandling piccolo"
Phrasing?
Nah I agree, Piccolo is mishandled. Even though his character arc IS complete, Toei wants to act like they can't use him anymore.
@@selfloathinggivesmelife7810 what about the t.o.p
Gohan is a passive character, but Goku also started out that way. In the first arc, Goku was just a country bumpkin living in the woods until he met Bulma who's seeking the Dragon Balls and goes along with her because he doesn't want to give up the 4-star ball. Goku simply does what Bulma tells him to do and has no sense of agency in that arc. He's just along for the ride. By the next arc, Goku actively seeks out the Muten Roshi in order to train under him, so Goku from that point on transitions into being an active character.
Gohan could have shifted to be active and drive the story forward and the story could adapt to him. Dragon Ball is a series of progression. It constantly reinvents itself as time goes by. It started out as a gag series and gradually shifted to a battle shonen. I think the reason Gohan became such a wasted character in the end is because the series became very formulaic by this point as Toriyama became set in his ways. He was used to the setup of Goku showing up at the last minute to save the day that he couldn't think of how that would work for Gohan instead of trying another approach. Gohan is not Goku. The tropes that worked with Goku won't work with Gohan. The series has to reinvent itself again if Gohan's the leading man, but Toriyama was too attached to Goku and the tropes associated to him.
True. And plus I think the reason why Toriyama didn't want Gohan as the main character was probably because the story focused on Goku since the start and to suddenly shift to Gohan would somewhat be unsettling to fans
@@joadarium9605 it really would have been because most Gohan fans are from the west since we got introduced to DBZ before Dragonball and Japan would of had a fit.
You could just say he is a bad writer
He is the manga equivalent of any Hollywood child actor with great pipes and potential falling from grace and failing to live up to expectations. He is basically the Macaulay Culkin of the Dragon Ball universe.
Agter his defeat against the return of Frieza, there were opportunities to develop Gohan again but since the tournament, I kind of gave up. Gohan could easily protect the Earth while his dad and Vegeta are somwhere else. I think that a standalone serie for Gohan alone could work but Vegeta and Goku have to die.
...Am I the only one who thinks that Gohan could've been a legendary super saiyan? He had the temper
I think it was absolute in him. Maybe not another Broly, but what that LSSJ trait could have become/evolved into. Then his mom was 100 percent against anything that wasn't studying and his dad was a win-a-holic that couldn't stop butting into fights even after he died! lol
Should have and him and broly should have went toe to toe smh wasted character potential
Yep pretty much. It's a well known fact that saiyans are angry, brash beings who were willing to fight at a moment's notice. Gohan had like 10x the normal anger of a saiyan, and he didn't WANT to fight. When he did he was pushed in a corner with the only way out being standing up for his self, it was sort of like fighting for his life, and just like irl, his fight-or-flight response activated, priming his body for fighting, making him nut the fuck up and beat somebody's ass. That's like the perfect formula for LSSJ, and they wasted it, smfh.
Am I the only one who thought having Gohan unable to achieve further Super Sayan forms was probably the biggest mistake? Like, this video points out why no one cares about him emotionally anymore, but as the series went on, Gohan never went Super Sayan 3 even though Trunks did. Never went Super Sayan 4. Never felt like doing much of anything really. In the Boo saga, and in other saga he wasn't given that power spike we'd seen given to Goku. And the Super Sayan 3 counter part was also disappointing but lets be honest, that stupid arc made any future off-spring from Vagita and Goku to be less needed.
A lot of Dragon Ball Z (in and of itself) could be retconned in a way because it hinders a lot of power growth in other characters. They are currently looking for any way to make the Z-fighters stronger in Super, and though I like how they use creative ways for the gang to beat their foes, they really fell off in power at the end. Goku reaching unnecessary power levels is what I didn't like and it makes a lot of people look at the other characters in an underwhelming way.
The number of different kings and gods keeps increasing exponentially. First it was the ruler of the Underworld, then it was King Kai, then it was Supreme Kais, then it was that cat guy, then its the weird child thing... it just keeps growing... Where does it end?
No, I honestly don't think so. He is a half blood. Even if he had the potential, there's no way he'd realize it.
Surprised this inst about Launch :P The ACTUAL forgotten character
or just have "Japan Hates Tien 2"
To. E fair Launch is like Yamcha, they don’t have much to contribute to the over arching story
Who?
@@brownshawarmaofficial6803 Exactly
Who?
Gohan’s character arc is a victim of DBZ’s success. If it had been allowed to end then Gohan would’ve had a narratively satisfying character arc. But the story has to keep going and now we find that our hero has found happiness and is doing the things he enjoys but they’re antithetical to the style of story and structure employed by Dragonball overall.
I like Gohan. I appreciated him as a character that contrasted Goku’s lust for combat and challenge. Gohan’s problem is that he isn’t interested in constantly getting better at fighting, it’s not his dream to be the best the way it is for Goku and Vegeta. I appreciate Gohan as someone who fights because he has a strong sense of justice and fights because he has to, but wants to live peacefully. I enjoyed his slice of life days, his interest in being a superhero, but Dragonball’s structure, or the audience, or Toriyama, just seem to be able to support that version of the character long term.
Gohan is the hero of a story that’s supposed to have an actual ending with no take backs on the ending thing.
Important Fact: Toriyama was gonna end the series at the Cell saga same with Frieza saga, but fans demanded more, Akira is just tired to make more content, and he was gonna make Gohan the main character after the Cell saga, and that after the Buu saga, Goku’s 24 hours will pass and he will return to the after life. But editors kept telling him to bring Goku back and some crazed fans were so pissed that Goku was killed that they were rioting and tried to burn Toriyama’s house down.
In conclusion, the reason why Gohan was screwed like this, is because of a long series of events that involves the industry and the fandom keep on bashing out content from a tired out Akira Toriyama. And that after buu saga’s release, American fans that wanted Gohan to become the new protagonist begins to criticize the series. In the end, poor Akira Toriyama. He doesn’t deserve this shit.
That was all false. The video even shows you that Toriyama himself didn't want Gohan as the protag.
TheBleachj16 It said that canon Gohan doesn’t have the personality to be fascinating protagonist. But here it also pointed that future Gohan however, has the potential.
The disappointment wasn't aided by the fact that they had mentioned in the series that Gohan was SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than Goku when he was that age, it made us feel like they were setting him up to be a character to surpass Goku in strength one day. I think his story should have been different, I feel he should have started as that reactionary character and evolved into the protagonist we wanted to see. Goku is a badass and all, but it would have been a refreshing change of pace to see a character develop into that position.
But from a story telling aspect, Gohan could NEVER be that character while remaining true to his goals and aspirations. He doesn't have the desire to fight of both Vegeta and Goku. Gohan hated fighting. So from a logical perspective, cell (the only known being in the universe who could compete with Gohan's power gap) having been defeated means there is no reason for Gohan to continue training and developing as a fighter. To stay true to his character, Gohan would use this time of peace to pursue his own goals, those being his academics. This is further reinforced with Goku's return and resurrection in the Buu arc, but only after Gohan re accepts the responsibility of protector when Goku's time is up. Not only is he not the strongest anymore, but his father (a person with a natural drive for self development) is back to resume the responsibility of protecting the earth. He feels he isn't needed on this front anymore, so he can now devote his life in it's entirety to his goals which also begin to include starting a family of his own.
This is why Gohan continues to be one of my favorite characters of all time. His handling in dragon Ball super only reinforces this as well. Because he is forced to come to terms with the fact that not once, but twice there was a major event that he couldn't rely on either Goku or Vegeta, and he was unable to face it because he made the choice to abandon his training. Both times he nearly lost his life as a consequence. Both times innocent people were hurt. And it's this realization that drives him to seek out piccolo's training. However, this time is different. Unlike before when Gohan was kidnapped against his will and thrust into the his role as a fighter, HE chooses to stand up and reclaim his place on the team. He even goes so far as to reject Goku's reliance on the super sayian transformation and forge his own path to strength.
When fighting Cell, Gohan's mastered Super Saiyan indeed was more powerful than Goku's. So yes at one point (aside from the potential unlock period) he was better than his father.
@@TykeMison_ yes, but that could never last so long as Gohan remained true to his character.
@@TykeMison_ I would even argue Mystic Gohan is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Maybe Mystic Gohan should have been the level he attained to defeat Cell. _Beyond_ Super Saiyan. Far beyond Goku. Fulfilling the build up he had since the Saiyan Saga.
As for where he could have gone beyond Cell with that level of power? I'm reminded of a Superman quote from the Justice League cartoon, as he fights Darkseid. Talking about always have to hold back his full power. Which again, would have been another really interesting avenue to explore with Gohan.
You know who's forgotten? Almost everyone except Goku and Vegeta, gone are those good days when everyone used to fight together. I really miss how they showed Tien, Yamcha (might be controversial for some), Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan.
Those days ended with the Saiyan Saga.
TrickyDirector I remember I got so hype when tien showed up in the Buu saga but was so disappointed when he got knocked out with one kick 😅
@@TemplodeDeus7
That wasn't "fighting together", that was just an asspull power up, to give Tien fans a handjob.
Another missing character is poor Launch,she was forgotten by Akira Toryama
@@Jellyman4
At least the animation team didn't forget her and put a small scene with her at the end of the Buu Saga
It’s a little weird that Gohan snapped over an android that he didn’t know. If only Akira wrote that scene better. Like if Android 16 and Gohan had a bond together we’re they would talk about nature, innocence, and who Gohan really wants to be when he grows up. I don’t know it would’ve hada bigger impact.
Gohan should have an arc where he has to surpass Goku again. It always rubbed me wrong that Gohan surpassed Goku intentionally on Goku's behalf and then he was made to sit around and not train a lick. Even with a Scholarly Career, Gohan could still find time to train while studying.
Like others have said, Future Trunks Saga shows what we expected of Gohan. To be a great warrior who becomes Earth's last line of defense against mortal threats. But one could say that Trunks coming back from the future and dispruting that timeline had the unfortunate effect of saving Goku at the expense of Gohan's character development.
What it would take for Gohan to be "revived" as a character would need to be equally as apocalyptic as the Android saga's future. He would have to become the last line of defense again.
Maybe... but if we can harden him back into a warrior again and have him mentor Trunks and Goten properly, we could actually see Gohan become a new Picolo and the boys blossom into something unique.
Problem is that how are we gonna...
Uh...
Kill Videl and her baby that I'm pretty sure she has? Just food for thought.
Would have been awesome it if was future Gogan who came back at the beginning of the Android arc, to show his younger self the importance of training because you never know what will happen in the future. Still could of had trunks come back at a later time, revealing future Gohan was killed, thus further enforcing the idea to continue training to change his future and not be killed
I believe they could have developed his character even with Goku still in the picture. They just gave up in the middle of it.
Wayne Bracy For real gogan is awesome lmao 😂
You know, thats still kinda possible with the way the current super arc villain gains his power. they could run back Gohan's hidden potential he got from the supreme kai and that could act as an immunity to the villian's abilities that effected Goku and Vegeta. Also considering who was the first to take a hit from his abilities that could be the turning point that brings him up to par with the top 2 again.
At least Gohan had an Arc. Unlike Gokus second son...
goku has a second son?
@@flaminhotchurro
Pretty sure he doesn't
Nonsense maan poor goven or whatever his name was
At least Gotenks exists. Wouldn't be here if it weren't for GOTEN and Trunks. Both of Kakarrot's kids are important.
@@flaminhotchurro Goten.
It's such a shame too. Adult Gohan looks like a complete and total badass. The story easily could've kept Gohan as a reactionary protagonist by exploring the dichotomy between his desire to pursue his personal goals, versus the immense responsibility that being earth's strongest warrior carries. I can sort of see why Toriyama decided to keep Goku as the protagonist. After all, it's so much easier to keep the plot going when your main character's main desire (fighting) aligns with what most of the villains in the series tend to resort to (FIGHTING). This is sort of the TL;DR.
After this, I'm sorta just slapping my thoughts down as they come. Feel free to read all of it or none of it. It's quite frankly pretty damn long, but to be honest most of it is reiterating what we already know. It's more of an open invitation to discuss the series as a whole. So here we go.
I just think Gohan was so much more interesting of a character than Goku. That might perhaps be my bias towards DBZ since I never watched or read the original Dragonball (something I should remedy), but Goku's main character trait was his easy-going, laid-back simplicity. He took life in stride, and was a good person at heart. It's why he's so easy to like and follow as a character and by no means is he a bad character. It's obvious to see why he was the series protagonist for decades. But in my opinion, Gohan was just more complex. His core defining trait was his potential, not just as a character, but in terms of what could be done with him in the narrative. The flexibility of his reactive nature, sense of justice and duty, and desire to do something with his life other than fighting is extremely interesting. He had just a tinge more depth than his father, and I'd attribute that to him being a subversion. His passivity conflicts with what Dragonball is about and that's *precisely* why he's such an interesting subversion of Dragonball itself. It isn't that Gohan can't or doesn't want to fight, it's that Gohan *needs* something to defend to bring himself to violence. While I understand Toriyama's decision, I think more than anything he was just more comfortable with Goku as the lead rather than Gohan not being "a good fit". Because the way I see, Gohan's reactionary nature is *perfect* for Dragonball, because every single antagonist in the series is ACTIVE. Gohan's call to action is always in the defense of the innocent, to protect those weaker than himself, to be a bulwark for his friends and family. An active antagonist will naturally come into conflict with Gohan's sense of justice and reactionary nature, simply because the antagonist is more often than not evil beyond redemption, seeking to harm everything Gohan WANTS to protect. Gohan HAS to fight back, because if he doesn't, he loses everything.
And to be honest, I think this is exactly 1/1 what Toriyama was initially trying to go for. After all, the Buu arc begins with Gohan interacting with the people he is going to eventually protect, and the main antagonist of the arc is Majin Buu who is basically just a malevolent force of nature that DOES end up wiping the entire planet out. However, something just doesn't click with the way Toriyama wrote the introduction to the arc. It was practically set up for success; everything was built for it to be. I think the major problem that Dragonball suffers from as a series in general is just *way too many characters* . There are too many micro-scale character arcs going on at any given time and I think Toriyama was focusing on a lot of the wrong characters, and if not the wrong characters (Vegeta) he was implementing their character arcs at the wrong time. With an ever increasing roster of characters, it's inevitable that many of the veteran characters of the series will start being forgotten and alienated. The character focus is just too broad, and I think that's why many of the characters in DBZ during the Buu arc and in DBS have sort of regressed in their complexity. Many of the characters are more one-note, and so many of the older characters have finished their character arcs. There isn't a lot of room to develop older characters if they aren't, by their very nature, active characters. That isn't to say older characters can't still develop and grow more, but let's be honest: Dragonball is an extremely simple story and series at heart. There aren't any "tricks" or "gimmicks" to how the story functions. There's no narrative "focal point" that drives the plot perpetually to its conclusion. We aren't hunting for a specific treasure, we aren't trying to wipe out a specific enemy, we aren't trying to bring a dead mother back to life, hell we aren't even searching for the titular namesake of the series anymore since acquiring a dragonball seems as simple as going to the local 7/11. The only overarching goal in Dragonball is "surpass your previous limits and get stronger". It's why you can pick out nearly any arc in Dragonball Z and argue that the story could've ended right there. All it would take is a few tweaks to character arc resolutions and the story could theoretically wrap up at any point. If the original Dragonball was a genuine adventure meant to excite your sense of wonder with legitimate stakes and interesting story beats, Dragonball Z is a roller-coaster meant to excite your adrenaline non-stop until you're off the ride. You think fondly of the ride, but you know that in the end, that ride was meant to do only one thing.
In fact, pretty much every single arc in DBZ is a reactionary arc from a pro-active antagonist asserting their will on the plot. We jump from one villain to the next, each one pretty much desiring the exact same thing as the previous one, except this time they're S T R O N G E R. Saiyan Arc? Destruction of Goku and friends and acquiring the dragon balls to make a sinister wish. Namek? Destruction of Goku and friends and acquiring the dragon balls to make a sinister wish. Cell? Has the best narrative introduction out of the three so far imo, but despite Cell's initial goal being to obtain perfection through absorption of the Androids, the arc concludes with Cell pretty much wanting to destroy Goku, his friends, and the entire planet. My point is, as long as Toriyama invents a villain who wants to do evil for the sake of being evil, Dragonball will always have a "plot". But does it really? The stakes are often personal, but death is more of a minor inconvenience. So the primary penalty should our heroes fail (death, either their own or that of a loved one) seems rather trivial when there is a literal plot device that can *magically alter the plot at will* and erase the consequences of a failure state. The personal stakes typically weigh down to, "if you're going to hurt the people I care about, I'm going to kick your ass". It's why I think Raditz was so poorly implemented, because he's just killed so goddamn quickly and swept under the rug. Any other series would've had dire ramifications about the main character having an evil sibling, and that concept and story beat would've been fully explored, but in DBZ, it's used to create a "villain of the week" and any interesting consequences are swiftly dealt with and never explored again.
So I don't foresee a character that was initially deep like Gohan ever being able to make a come-back. Toriyama would have to become an entirely different writer than he is now, or at the very least, shift and change the soul essence of Dragonball forever so that Gohan could have his moment to shine. He requires a dilemma between his dreams and his responsibility as a powerful fighter to call him to action, but ever since Goku returned to the spotlight I think that door is forever closed. Gohan has no reason to take action, simply because... his father will. The only reason Gohan was in the Tournament of Power was because it demanded 10 entrants per universe. If the requirement was 5 entrants instead, would Gohan have made the cut? What about 3? And even then, the conflict of the ToP arc is quintessential Dragonball. It's straight-forward and easy to follow; no tricks or storytelling focal points deep enough to compel Gohan to be a lead role.
Damn I'm in love
Gohan was going to be the Protagonist going forward in Dragon Ball. But Toriyama does not plan out stories in detail and writes by the seat of his pants. Majin Buu was the Saga with the least editorial inference which might explain how over the place the story was. Toriyama's editors helped mold and channel his creative juices but without that he reverted back to his gag manga roots and Gohan was a victim of that. He probably wrote Gohan going to school because he though it was funny to see such a powerful character in a normal setting. I feel had Toriyama had an editor that would have hold him accountable to the story more we could have had a better arc for him. What if instead of Gohan growing weaker, he kept his training, not for the love of fighting but because he felt it was his responsibility to protect the Planet in place of his father. What if he went to school in a big city not just because his mom wanted to but because to be closer to the people he bow to protect. What if then Babidi went looking for the strongest warrior to extract his energy and went straight to Gohan and in the fight Babidi, or heck a revivied Buu destroyed the city he was meant to protect.
Damn this was a sexy answer
I love Super, but it pissed me off the 2nd most important character of DBZ became a side character.
In some ways, Gohan was more of the protaganist than Goku in Z.
I can hear the Vegeta fans crying right now.
@@Drago7166 Vegeta was a big character in Z, but Vegeta never had his own mini-arc around his life, and in general didn't get as big of a spotlight as Gohan. Which makes sense because he was a villian for half the show.
But for some reason, Super acts like Goku and Vegeta are the two only and most important main characters.
Orphan that’s because they basically are? What else does Gohan have to develop at this point? They’ve squandered the opportunity for him having a new character arc becoming a family man, but then again, Vegeta has already done that. So besides that there’s nothing Gohan can really do at this point besides becoming stronger and that isn’t really a stand out thing in Dragon Ball. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones that have the slightest interesting of growing stronger at this point because it’s them surpassing the gods and stuff. Dragon Ball has basically run all the characters arcs through and theirs not much to do at this point besides show interesting stories and make the characters stronger.
@@Drago7166 God, I hope you never try to become an author.
If you think a character in a story only having one arc is normal, you are a moron.
Just because Gohan doesn't have some painfully obvious thing to do next, doesn't mean they couldn't give him something interesting to do.
Orphan dude... don’t call me a moron. And what can they do for Gohan at this point? They’ve breezed through possible family problems and there’s no other confrontation to be had with other characters at this point because everyone is universal in power and Gohan is like galaxy level in power. It would be a total ass pull if they made Gohan billions of times stronger like that. And I never said characters can have only one character arc.
Mark : Son Gohan - The forgotten character
LAUNCH: AM I A JOKE TO YOU ?
Yes. 😂
She pretty much is.
Her entire purpose is as a running gag where one second, she's cute and demure, the next, OH SHIT, SHE HAS A GUN!! (Even though every protagonist was proven bulletproof from literally Chapter 1).
As the series shifted from lighthearted adventure to raw fighting and power levels, the gag characters and even the non-Goku FighterZ (pun intended) all took a seat.
If, by the Buu Saga, even Tenshinhan was largely absent, who even misses Launch?
Nevermind launch, DINNER is what all warriors strive for!
Launch lowkey was the first super saiyan xD
Great Saiyaman Gohan is actually my favorite version of the character. I liked his story of being torn between having a normal life and being his father’s replacement. It would have been amazing if they ran with that story and had Gohan defeat Buu.
Tien was so forgotten he didn't even make the list
Dragon Ball > DBZ in terms of story.
However, the Cell Saga, specifically Gohan going SS2 is the pinnacle of the entire series to this day.
Eh... there's a LOT wrong with the Cell saga. Like, from beginning to end, there's no stop to the writing issues. And even Gohan's transformation is iffy because he has no connection to 16. It's the pinnacle of his character, and that's good enough.
Dragon Ball > DBZ in terms of everything
@@Lyserg1260 except maybe action
@@Lyserg1260 Bullshit. Early DB is by far the most overrated part of the entire franchise.
It has the worst art and animation on average out of all 4 series, a mostly forgettable supporting cast, mostly forgettable storytelling (before the Tien saga), just as many plot holes as Z, and FAR less character development overall.
Only anime hipsters and contrarians think Early DB is 100% better than the rest of the series, even though it objectively isn't.
Both the Saiyan and Namek sagas are better stories than the Evil Piccolo saga (the best of Early DB).
>"is it too late for son gohan?"
>me, already getting sad:
WE NEED GOHAN WITH THE SAME HAIR STYLE AS HIS YOUTH VERSION
Gohan was my favorite character up through the Cell saga. The fact that they effectively neutered him was a travesty.
So Gohan's literally a child actor he grew up and everybody forgot about these not famous anymore
Gohan confirmed the Macaulay “Macaulay Culkin” Culkin of Dragon Ball.
Lmao so true
Ouch. True. But Ouch.
Gohan's still my favourite character, I don't care.
he became shit as adult, but i still have hopes for him.... i dont care if anyone says gohan is useless or bad, he can be the best when time's right...... i wish the alternate timeline gohan comes over and gives a slap to present one to provoke the great power comes great responsibility.. it'll be great!!!
I think Videl was great for his early story’s in the bu arcs she dragged gohan into the conflicts but now she doesn’t do anything to bring back gohan you need to bring back videl to because they worked off of each other so well
Same
I still like him. He's just not a lead character, but when you have Goku and Vegeta running around, it's hard to tell a story that's right for Gohan.
I think the universal tournament arc and him overcoming his flaws somewhat redeems him. His next character arc could be him becoming what the fan base has always wanted him to be.
the dynamic they have for Gohan where he loses his powers and then trains and returns as a badass, is pretty interesting to me. That build up leads to a great climax where you go from disappointment to astonishment
Nappa's hair had more screen time than Gohan in the Broly movie