Throttle vs Pedal Assist - Which Electric Bike is Better?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- When shopping for an electric bike many people are confronted with the decision of choosing between throttle or pedal assist. In this video, I wanted to explain the differences in these systems and how they perform.
Thanks so much for watching!
If you guys are interested in checking out the bike we used in his video, feel free to click the link below:
propelbikes.co...
TIMECODES:
9:00 Throttle test ride
11:50 Pedal assist test ride
13:50 Comparing speed/torque
Music Bed ID: MB01RPHPS4T4VGO
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Great video and very informative. I have an ebike, class 2 with cadence sensor and a throttle. I've found that it helps to have a throttle when I'm riding in traffic and I'm starting from a dead stop at a light. Other than that I seldom use it. I ride on level assist 2 out of 5 because I enjoy pedaling and maximizing the range on my battery. It gives me enough power to get some assistance and a good workout. I've also test ridden a R & N bike with a carbon belt, Nuvinci internal hub, and Bosch mid motor and it felt great and very natural. Did not miss the throttle at all. That is what I would like to buy next but unless I sell my car i can't justify the purchase yet. We also have very limited cycling infrastructure in my city so commuting to work is difficult at best, suicidal on some parts of the commute. Thx and keep the great content coming.😁
Thanks Juan! Great to hear your thoughts on this. I think you're in a similar situation to many on many fronts. I think this all makes sense and I totally agree. I think most cities can use a serious improvement in their cycling infrastructure and I hope that they will realize the benefits of these investments. The challenge is the cities really have to take the first step but sometimes all it takes is one bold person in power to make a change. NYC has made dramatic strides since Janet Sadik Kahn and I think we can all learn from this as I believe the city is better because of it.
Thanks again for you your support and comments! Happy Riding! :)
@@Propelbikes I saw a youtube video from a Brooklyn bike shop. It says that NY has some funny laws concerning electric bikes. It says that an electric bike with a throttle, even a class 2 at 250 watt is considered a motor bike not a bicycle and can be and sometimes is confiscated just because it has a throttle. So make sure that any electric bike you ride in NY is class 1 with no throttle. Also check some other state and city laws. I understand you can now ride class 1 electric bikes, including mountain bikes in national parks now, don't know about class 2 with a throttle.
@@stuarthirsch I've never been stopped by a cop asking me what class bike it is in LA.
You said you'd like to hear from folks with a disability: That's me. I lost the use of my left leg about 5 years ago at age 63. I ride an electric fat trike. I had hoped to get some exercise but found that I was unable and was forced to use the throttle. Over time, I was able to begin pedaling a bit. Now I start with throttle, then pedal as I can.
Thanks a bunch for sharing Dennis! I’m really bummed we don’t have offerings in our shop with a throttle at the moment and your use case definitely makes sense. I’m glad you are able to get out there and enjoy biking! I guess I feel like there are a good amount of offerings out there which is good though.
How has your bike been treating you otherwise?
@@Propelbikes Excellent. I love it.
Hey Dennis, which electric fatbike do you own with a throttle? Thanks for sharing your experience
I have lupus and kidney disease. Having a throttle is a godsend when my energy just saps, which is usually the case when I have to start and stop at intersections frequently.
Why not go for an electric moped?
I have a throttle, I don't use it often but I'm glad it's there when I need it
Thanks for watching and your comment
What bike is it and how much did u pay?
@@xbeto9299 it's a Bafang 500w hub motor kit that cost $400CAD and at the time of this comment it was a 36v 10ah battery off Amazon for like $300CAD but that battery shit the bed so I got a Luna 52v 13.5ah battery for like $900CAD. I didn't use the throttle often at 36v because it would drain the battery quicker, and I don't really use it on 52v because it's just not fun.
You will need it when you are tired to pedal
If the choice were simply either/or, as you had here, I'd also go with pedal-assist, no question. But 2 years later, the choice here in SoCal seems to be pedal-assist with or without a throttle. And I'm REALLY glad my Class 2 has both.
Seldom use the throttle underway, but man, is it handy for sudden bursts of speed -- e.g. when merging with traffic, getting caught in way too low a gear, or getting out of harm's way. I now view the throttle as an important safety enhancement.
This is my new favorite ebike channel, I've been riding my Felt Lewbowsk'e fat tire ebike for the last 4yrs and it's been a very dependable mode of transportation. Keep up the great reviews. 👍
Wow! Thank you for the compliment! I’m glad you enjoy it and I look forward to publishing more videos.
This was absolutely a great video for us who have never experienced an ebike. It really helped me understand without actually experiencing it myself. You did a video that had a fairly steep incline and you showed the degree of slope. I would like to see more of that, but you may not have access to the long inclines where you're located. Any bike can go downhill or on a flat and it's the hills that interests me the most. I enjoy all your videos. You do a great job.
Thanks a bunch Steve! We’ll definitely try some climbing tests with motors soon. I think it would be good to demonstrate how much effort is required and what’s possible. Great feedback!
@@Propelbikes I look forward to it, and thank you!
Love the throttle bike, very similar to a Velo Solex used by old ladies and vicars in France about 40 years ago. It was a petrol assist, but the principle is the same. Old people can get about with no effort. Great video. Thank you.
I think I have the best of both worlds. My Pedego RidgeRider has a torque sensor, cadence sensor, and a throttle. I seldom use the throttle while riding on the street, but do use it quite a bit while trail riding. I'll often stand on the pedals and use the throttle to power my way through mud, etc., or to ride over obstacles.
Sounds like a good option for those that want both. We used to offer them years ago, but we’re pretty focused on pure pedal assist these days. I can still see the merit of throttles though.
I agree with you that a throttle is not useful most of the time with a cadence/torque-sensing ebike. The once place it would be useful is starts on steep uphills on mountain bike trails. There I wish for a momentary boost until I could get my second leg on the pedal in a down stroke. Maybe a 10 sec limit on throttle assist would be ideal. For those who use clip-ons this would also help to avoid tip overs on starts when the clips fail to engage.
I wonder if a the system delivered more torque from the get go it would alleviate that challenge. Have you tried the eMTB mode on the Bosch system or Trail mode on the Shimano motor. I believe they are intended to deliver more instantaneous power at those high need times.
@@Propelbikes I have a Haibike with the Yamaha PW-X motor. Supposedly 80 Nm of torque. I tried the max assist. Still had to walk the bike to a level section to start without stalling.
Even in the lowest gear? Maybe a smaller front cog is in order?
Liked your video. I just purchased a pedal-assist bike and the only "con" I've found is starting on steep hills. I'm 72 years old and I need my exercise without getting pooped going up steep hills or against a strong wind. Although I've never ridden a "throttle" e-bike, I think it would be difficult to resist the temptation to just use the throttle and exert little or no effort.
you go my man 72! you are AWESOME! anr an inspiration. I would luke tp see YOU do some videos... please
Superb effort in explaining this so well. I got much more clarity than envisaged. Great effort indeed 👍
Thank Chris. Your pacing off "109" steps was a RIOT. !!!
Lol. I figured that would make a few people laugh 😆
Greetings from Greece. I was given a 20 year old steel bike 4 years ago and three years ago i bought a 500w rear hub kit with a basic six magnet candence and throttle.The bike weighted 16 kg prior to convertion and now with rack and the kit and battery is 29-30 kg.I am 50 years old active person walking 40 km a week and the bike is a replacement of my car riding up to 70 km for time to time.Throttle is a necessity in my case because of the unevenly distributed weight to start the bike from still. At some point i intend to buy a better fitness bike of < 10 kg ,like merida speeder 400 and turn it to an mid drive ebike with a 500w 36v bafang kit ,in order to use the existing battery and have a much better bike with a weight aroung 18 kg and cost 1400 euro without battery.
Keep the good work
Thanks! It’s clear that there are different solutions for different needs and wants. Thank you for sharing yours. It’s great that you’re able to replace your car with your bike! Happy riding! 😎
It seems most of the Type 2 bikes are available from direct to consumer web sites. Many of these bikes get reviewed on EBR. My first ebike was an Addmotor Motan 850 purchased direct. It is a Class 2. I didn't like the hub drive and I found the throttle to be a distraction. Occasionally good for a jack rabbit start, but I found unnecessary. It is also very unwelcome on bike trails in particular MTB. Sold 18 months later for half what I bought it for. Next bike was a Specialized Turbo Levo, Class 1 and much more expensive than Addmotor. So much better and welcome everywhere, same as a normal bike and supported by my local Specialized dealer. 3rd bike is Haibike Sduro Trekking 9.0 Class 3 with no throttle (for city use). That is an awesome bike and gets me around pretty good. Occasionally other bikers get pissed and yell at me when I pass them at high speed, so a lot of times I hold back out of respect to the bike and ebike community. All in all, for the average person, a bike shop supported ebike with a quality mid motor either drive class 1 or 3 is the way to go. Really for many people, even Class 3 is overkill.
Very informative and well-said comment. I think many tend to have a similar sort of evolution. I appreciate your mindfulness of others when riding, I think it's all about respect. This is critical if we want this movement to grow in a sustainable way. Thanks for your continued support and comments. Your perspective is really helpful.
Thank you for the informative reply. I'm on the fence with class #1 or class #3. I'm 72 years old with no commuting in my needs, only intending to ride comfort cruising, mostly pavement, with some grocery shopping. I can add that years ago on my full carbon race bike I never felt comfortable with the downhill runs and all my friends hitting 25+. I'd be heavy on the brakes and taking the last follow position
When I built my ebike I made sure it had both. That way if I get tired, i can just ride it like a motorcycle until I rest a bit and can continue pedaling. Or, for once covid is over, I can use throttle to commute to work (12 miles away), charge during work, then after work change into casual clothes and pedal home. 2021 goal is to eliminate my car 90% of the time unless its winter (chicago is cold)
I installed the thumb throttle and DAMN it’s so much more worth it than twist. It’s right there easy to access. No accidental throttling.
I'm really against throttle assist eBikes as I think it really starts to blur the lines between a moped/motorcycle and a bicycle. I'm seeing a lot of people freewheeling on throttle assist eBikes and I think to myself, what is the actual difference between this and a motorcycle? I know someone is cycling when they are peddling so if they're on a bicycle but they are being constantly propelled by a motor without peddling then they are not cycling. They want the benefits of a cyclist (use of cycle paths, cycle infrastructure etc) but don't want to put the physical effort in and I have big issue with this. Most people would object to a moped/motorcycle using cycling infrastructure even if they're going at a typical cycling speed so what's the difference with these?
Yeah, I always thought that Throttle Ebike is just an electric motorcycle.
This is a easy question to answer! The correct answer is of course throttle! Why, because it gives you option to choose.
From our perspective there is no answer. We focus on pedal assist in our shop, but both systems have their merits.
My experience with center drive is , very good , except ,"Chain Stretch" , so next E bike will have a belt , rather than a chain : Front Drive Vs Rear Drive , front drive tends to pull U around the corners , with little problem , rear drive ( with a throttle assist for staring off ) tends to cause the bike to wheel stand , as there is little weight on the front , All in all Center drive is the best and most balanced 1
Thanks Danny! It’s great to have you sharing your experience here. I feel the same on these ideas.
I think the arguments of pedal assist versus throttle will go on forever. It is such personal decision. I learned about E Bikes when throttle assist, to my knowledge, did not exist. Fast forward to today and the choice is astounding. I ride mainly for fitness and I will put just as much effort into riding my Trek Crossrip + today as I did my Schwinn Super LeTour in 1980. The fact that I happen to go much faster and farther in an hour is just icing on the cake. I also use this bike for commuting to and from work in decent weather. I get great exercise in doing something I would have to anyway. As for throttle, I just do not see the point for me. I know friends that ride a non-E bike and they do not see the point of what I do. Oh well. I have the Bosch Speed mid drive and at lights (I ride in a lot of traffic in a city where they hate bikes) I just have to remember to gear down but I keep it in Turbo, the highest level and have no problem starting off. Micro Mobility (that includes E Bikes) is the coming wave in most Urban settings. The important thing is to find what you like and use it. If you do not own an E Bike, look into it.
Thanks Bob! I agree. Totally a personal decision. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
Yup. It's a personal choice, yeah fun is in pedal assist, but sometimes throttle can be saviour
Hi Chris, Thank You for making these videos. I like them and watch them all. If you are searching around for topics , one thing I would like to know more about is battery care. It seems most manufactures boast about the range of their batteries but then tell their customers not to let the battery discharge below 20 percent. Some sales people have told me to never let the battery go totally discharged. Do some batteries like Bosch have a built in low limit where the battery can not go completely discharged? Also I am told there are sensitivity’s to high and low temperatures. How high and how low? It also seems curious to me that most battery makers put their batteries in black cases. Once I left my ebike with the battery uncovered out in the sun. When I returned it was way too hot to touch. That battery eventually failed. The battery was under warranty but still it took a lot of talking to get it replaced. Nothing was ever said about battery care when I purchased the bike. Well this was over six years ago so I guess things have probably changed by now Than k You TT
Thanks Tom! I appreciate the support. I think the battery video idea is great. Most of the modern batteries don't require this special care since their BMS (Battery Management System) takes care of this. I usually just charge when the bike needs it and keep it fully charge, unless you're going to store it for
long period. In that case would recommend dropping to approximately 50%. Some of the cheaper bikes are less sophisticated in this area though. I'll definitely put this video idea on the list.
My ebike has a low voltage setting in the controller software. It is programmable with a laptop. My Lunacycle charger has a high charge threshold setting that allows me to choose 80/90/100. 42V to 51V.
Nice and simple explanation that should help out a lot of e-bike shoppers. I have found that my Bosch-powered bikes have robust acceleration from a stop negating the need for a throttle for the purposes of getting through an intersection quickly. If the rider has the ability to pedal and is in the correct gears, the Bosch pedal-assist has plenty of power to push through an intersection. Maybe this style of video would be great for another offering an explanation of the motor types? Mid-drive vs hub and the different types of hub motors?
Thanks! I hope it's helpful. I agree with your perspective. Great idea for a future video and other similar ideas. I appreciate the feedback :)
Throttle is good to get started from stop with a heavy load. I have a bionx torque sensing hub motor on a cargo bike and is great to get started from a stop, less balance is needed.
I also have an urban arrow, and it’s trickier to get started from stop with heavy loads. It’s not difficult , but it is slightly harder.
What a great video. I have seen endless videos about ebikes and this is the first one to shed some light on why systems like the Bosch cost what they do, compared to cheap DIY kits.
Would love an electric bike, but the prices are just too high to be a viable replacement for whatever used car I can get for the price.
Peddle assist is what I like😍🥰 It makes cycling a breeze
The answer is generally throttle is better It works in those dips where you can't get the pedal assist running. But keep in mind that you need much more battery capacity to fully use a throttle and with a torque sensor you get much better control than a budget pedal assist
I love your sense of humour.
Thanks 🙏 😁
I wanna say that the throttle isn't for necessarily weaker people but it's for also certain situations where you just need one like rough terrian where you need level pedals
Generally I ride PAS only. I use low assist levels to get more exercise and maximize my battery range. The throttle gets used to extend a downhill coast when my speed drops to say 10-12 mph if with little battery penalty I can roll on a little further at similar speeds. Also, I use the throttle as part of a breather at the top of a difficult hill - we have really steep hills around my part of the USA. Lastly, I use the throttle on take off sometimes. It can enhance my safety in traffic allowing me to get away from cars. On my ride home on country roads Friday, I used the throttle a few times to minimize my dwell time on steep hills b/c of heavier than usual traffic b/c a nearby road was closed for repairs. I seldom just motor around.
I have a Tern GSD S00, and bumping up the pedal assist to the highest setting is more that adequate to get me across a right angle intersection. Where I have some trouble is at the intersection of the mixed use path where I need to turn left and go uphill. Thanks to a property owner who declines to trim his shrubbery, I have to sort of waddle forward until I can see and then begin pedaling as I am already nosing into the intersection. The tight left uphill always equals some less than elegant cycling. I don't think a throttle would help any though.
Now if only I could think of a way to get that guy to trim his hedge without starting a neighbor war...
Lol. It’s really interesting the little obstacles we can encounter on our bikes that might not be a bother in a car. I do hope that your neighbor trims his shrubs for you. I don’t think it will hurt to ask nicely. Maybe come with a gift, it might get you further 😉
I like my cadence assistant and throttle
Fortunately there are many options out there for this as well.
I conceder my self lucky cuz I start to following you , I start to have the knowledge and some wisdom when it come toe bikes , I have a broken leg so that’s the key factor when it come to buy a bike , I found a lot of info I really really must know before I purchase any bike , thank you so much .
Going to add my vote for both, throttle and peddle assist.
For me, throttle is a must have, for standing starts, in awkward situations, like on a hill, at an intersection, or when you stop without opportunity to downshift.
It is also very handy, when you stop for a bite to eat, and don't want to peddle with a full stomach, or need to catch your breath, before continuing to peddle.
Also very easy to disconnect the throttle if need be, for local bike restrictions.
I would never purchase an E-Bike without throttle assist.
As for pedal assist, there are not many E_Bike bikes without it, so it's not usually an either/or, it is just a question if, you want to have the added benefit of throttle or not.
Also important to mention, that there are two kinds of throttle assist, one kind is like a motorcycle throttle, that has variable amount of boost, based on how far you twist the throttle.
The other kind is a simple switch, that turns on the motor, with a fixed level of assist. or none at all.
I have a budget E-Bike, that has the switch throttle, and cadence pedal assist.
I am very happy with that, but if cost was no object, I would have all three sensors, + throttle.
Magic Pie has thumb throttle and "cruise control" button ... I set my speed at about 10 mph and pedal assist as I please .. Front hub motor with internal controller .. I have it set up on an Electra Townie . I can touch flat foot from the seat ..Love it
Interesting vid. but I will always choose throttle over ped. assist..purely from a safety point ..as I do most of my riding off road and camping/ fishing/ hunting ...so if I have an injury . such as a twisted knee or ankle ..the bike can carry me out..no need to pedal..I have used it once for a knee injury ...that is all I use the electric drive for ..all other riding is unassisted..it still amazes me how far I can go on the bike in a short time ..far enough to make coming back to base with an injury ..difficult or impossible if I have to pedal to use the assist ..
B..Au.
This is an interesting use scenario. Nice that the throttle was able to help you there. I think this sort of thing is pretty rare though and there are other contingencies which can be used. Thanks for sharing your experience.
The burnt orange bike is nice, over here in the UK its illegal to have a throtle, its unlikley to ever get caught but for some reason its not allowed. I have both a mid drive bike, Giant Trance e3 pro and a hybrid Devron Riddle
Yeah nice orange bike cost 7000 $
Excellent presentation.
Glad you enjoyed! :)
If you simply pay attention to what you are doing you absolutely do not need a throttle. By paying attention I mean plan ahead and downshift your gearing if you can see you need to stop ahead. I have no car and only use my ebikes for transportation. If you are in low gear as you start out you can easily get going even from a complete stop with pedal assist. I do it all the time, even pulling a trailer with 100 lb. load from a dead stop at a traffic light. Throttles are a waste of space on your handlebars, add unnecessary wiring, and worst of all make you lazy while massively decreasing your battery range. Pedal assist is all you need.
Totally agree! Thanks for your comment! :)
Chris, you are living the life my friend. Anywhoo, I live in Saint Louis and E Bike laws are complex thanks to throttle powered bikes. For that reason I'm in the market for a pedal assist even thought a throttle would be helpful. You can't ignore the health benefits of pedal assist.
Thanks Kirk! Originally I was kind of forced into pedal assist due to NYC laws, but I have grown to prefer it.
Same here. I remember folks going overboard turning bikes into overpowered mopeds with cheap electric kits back in the day, and really muddied things up. I actually prefer pedal assist too now.
Thanks for the video. Just got my first electric assist bike. Thought I wanted a 500 watt throttle controlled bike until I rode the 21 speed 250w Fuji 9E Traverse. The bike I ended up buying. I don't know if it has a torque, cadence or pedal sensing, or a combination of all 3. The controls are simple with a push power switch, 5 blue battery status LEDs and up/down push buttons for power assist level with 5 Blue LEDs to indicate assist level. Another big advantage to a 21 speed lightweight (47 Lbs) electric assist is that if battery power should run low just ride it like any other 21 speed bike. It will get you to where you need to go until you can charge the battery. Just try that with a throttle bike or a 7 speed frame motor bike. The electric assist replaces my 30 year old 18 speed steel frame Fuji Supreme, my everyday go to the street, gravel, and dirt bike. I also have and will keep my Fuji 21 speed pedal only Fuji Absolute, it is my performance bike. Use that on smooth paved bike paths and flat side streets. We have a lot of steep hills in our area, which is why I wanted electric assist.
I just wanted to know the difference but got a whole history lesson, very cool though
I just converted my bike to an E-bike. And it has both a throttle and cadence sensor and I fine the throttle help mitigate the shortcomings of the cadence sensor. Particularly acceleration. If I throttle from a stop I get through intersections fast and then I'm able to pedal and have the sensor take over. I still find myself pedalling most of the time.
I agree with your video. I thought I would want a throttle but class 1 PAS works just fine with a cadence sensor only. I enjoy your videos. :)
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed :)
But imagine you have 2 kids on a cargo ebike and your stopped at a light on a hill, throttle assist is hands down the easier and probably safer way to get across once the light is green
Great but with Camdens sensor we can push the padel hard but if not motor the torque gets to hub via chain
Remember to change the chain a lot more often if you have an ebike with pedal assist (mid-motor). The reason for this is that the power from the motor is also affecting everything else. If you are not careful you will not only have to change the chain, but also the cassette AND the chainring.
This is a great point! Unless you have an internal hub and/or a belt. These will last a lot longer.
Imho (having extensive experience of both) - throttle, in addition to pedal assist, is a great option. It’s just more fun and it’s useful to have for instant boost - eg for hill starts on your inevitably heavy eBike (or when u want to be lazy and ride it like a scooter 😀). More sophisticated is not always better (and is certainly more expensive). If I want something that is trying to replicate a conventional bike (albeit with amplified assistance), I’ll ride a conventional bike, and pedal harder. 😉
I do wonder if you have ridden a bike with more sophisticated pedal assist as most throttle bikes have a more basic type. If I had that I would probably prefer both as well as the pedal assist in that case isn’t as intuitive
Love your videos! Learn something with each one. Thank you!
There's really no cons to having a throttle beyond possible trail restrictions, but even in those cases many models allow the throttle to be electronically disabled to temporarily convert the bike to a class 1 for use in those locations. A throttle is simply another option that the rider may or may not choose to use and I really don't see why choice is a bad thing. The central argument, that a throttle is not necessary when the bike comes with a vast array of technology and sensors to automatically apply power, totally ignores the fact that most 'affordable' bikes do not come with that vast suite of sensing hardware.
In that regard, the whole argument that "Really expensive bikes are great without a throttle so you and your cheap bike shouldn't use one" just smacks of snobbery. Not only that but it actually implies that throttles really are necessary for people riding average ebikes with only cadence sensors in order for those folks to get a similar experience that the people who threw money at their ride are getting.
Just for fun, I'll give an example of where having a throttle on an ebike is a lifesaver: Those people who use their bike to commute will know where I'm coming from. For those that don', just imagine what it's like on those days following wet weather when that huge puddles somehow appears on that trail you need. It sure is nice to be able to slow right down and lift your feet up off the pedals and slowly let the bike power you through the water obstacle without the fear of splashing your shoes or worse, since your office doesn't really have a place to change...
I never knew Electric Bikes were this advanced :O That Pedal Assist one sounds pretty great! Bet it makes going uphill a lot more pleasant. I live out in the countryside and a lot of our roadways and bike paths are very hilly and can really take it out of you.
I just recently started looking at Electric Bikes because a streamer who does Japan live streams, lots of bicycling, was talking about getting an electric bike so curiosity got me. Glad I searched and found this video, learned some really cool new stuff today.
throttle and pedalling work so much better
Not my perspective but I do wonder if you have ridden a pedal assist bike with a proper torque sensor? Many people don’t like cadence sensing pedal assist which is most common on bikes with a throttle.
Anyone know how to go faster when using the throttle cos mine is restricted?
I have one question. The throttle function is come with torque scencer just? Or the throtle come also in cadence scener please answer?
Super helpful. Very well worded for newbies like me.
This is super helpful to hear :)
regards from the Himalayas, Kalimpong , India
I own a class 3 bike and I live in a mountainous area with long steep hills, down hills, flats and small hills. I rarely use the throttle, it can be a challenge finding the right combination of throttle assist and gearing for these situations. I try to make it so that I am putting enough effort to get a workout but not wearing myself out. I am 72 by the way.....
Once you get a throttle e-bike you will never want pedal assist e-bike again, throttle is basically a entry level version of a electric motorcycle.
Really great video. Very informative and extremely helpful. I’ll go with pedal assist. What’s the price range for the Riese & Muller bike you were riding.
Thanks Kieth! I appreciate your support! The Riese & Müller Supercharger2 in the video is a top of the line bike and starts at $6989. Here is a link with more info on it: propelbikes.com/product/riese-muller-supercharger2/ we also did a video review of it here: ruclips.net/video/YZ4HDD2sLy4/видео.html
Propel ElectBikes
What about people with knee issues and are unable to exert much force on pedals? How would that work for eBikes with torque sensing pedal Assisi?
It takes very minimal effort at some of the higher assist levels. Especially if you opt for the higher torque motors.
Great video! Subscribed.
Quick question, I cant stand cycling on a normal bike for more than an hour. I'm working as a food courier 8 hours, 3 days a week.
Any suggestion on how much electric throttle v paddle assist I should need? Like ratio? I think I'd probably use throttle 75 % of the time
I will be buying a Class 2 that has both pedal assist and throttle. I love throttle! 👍
Need the R&M bike to be $3k then I will trade my class 3 Stromer. 😀
Another great video
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Bill! Maybe you can get a used one for around $3k, probably not the one in the video though. I appreciate your support and comments :)
Hey I have an ebike with throttle and pedal assist but somehow full throttle not working, meaning when ebike is stationary the throttle doesn’t turn on the motor ?
I wanna know more about that peddle assist bike you have there its badass looking! What brand and can you get a throttle for it?
I found with my Bafang that pedal assist was too abrupt, especially in low gears.
Low speed manouvering was a tricky business.
It was an easy mod to disconnect it, and rely soley on the "throttle."
This is usually because it uses a cadence sensor. Some of the newer ones use torque and cadence sensors which dramatically improve the smoothness and predictability.
I have toutche's helio h200 hybrid ecycle with 8 magnet cadence sensors for pedal assist and throttle. But they start only after 5km/hr. Thats tricky, on uphills or sudden restart we have to apply 100% body energy and then you get to enjoy the electric energy. Not for old people but good for me.
So basicaly as described in the vidie & coment section throttle helps to start thebike and in my case neither theottle or pesal assist works below 5km/hr. Intresting.
Does anyone wonder if a cheaper $900 cadence sensor/throttle assist ebike is more dangerous than a pedal assist torque sensing high end ebike? My wife crashed and spent 2 nights in the hospital from a stopped position at a stop sign. She went unconscious for 6 minutes so I have no actual report on what occurred, but I suspect the cheap cadense sensory magnet fired off the hub motor when she accidentally rotated the pedal arm.... Sending her and the bike into live traffic. We since dumped that bike for a high end Bosch pedal assist 2020 model.
Throttle vs peddle assist is not a debate for us here in the UK - since 2016 the former isn't really an option LOL. E-bikes now must be peddle assist and limited to 15.5mph with assistance.
Nice to see Huntington Beach; for 20 years that was my "local" beach as I grew up in Fullerton.
THE THROTTLE IS A LIFE SAVER GETTING ACROSS INTERSECTIONS. Getting across quickly and not holding up traffic keeps everyone mellow. I never use the throttle other than at intersections.
Great video, very informative. I would be interested to hear your thought on the moped style e bikes. It would be great to see a video comparing moped e bike to bicycle e bikes. Thanks
Very informative. Thanks.
very useful video ..loved it as a beginner
I've looked at a dozen bikes with throttle AND pedal assist...the two are not mutually exclusive.
Not always, but they often are.
I don't mind pedaling, but I would like to use a throttle for design reasons - then I could buld my bike with the seat slammed really low, I could install clip-ons instead of regular handlebars and eliminate the pedals in favor of pegs or floorboards and it'd be a sick ride. Unfortunately such a build would be uncomfortable to pedal (and throttle i outlawsed over here in Germany, so I have to pedal) so in order to not have my knees hit me in my ribs I have a semi-chopper ape bars (Electra Attitude habdlebars).
Showed this on flat ground which in reality for my fitness level and location is moot. I have my heart set on a Riese and Muller Homage4 BUT at nearly 60 years old with some physical limitations I ?NEED a throttle, for take off up hill ( think Smokey mountains), and also to get me back when my legs give out or I have an asthma attack and really can't pedal. I want the security of a throttle to know I won't be stranded in bfe. Is there a way to add a throttle to the Homage4??? If not is there an ebike in the same quality line as Riese and Muller or Gazelle that is not made in China you recommend??
It's the torque baby!
I just had an ebike conversion kit installed. Came with a throttle and cadence sensor but I couldn't install the sensor since crank was stuck. So I only have throttle and only way to have pedal assist is to cut off and install a new crank. Kinda bummed out but maybe I'll ha e more control with the throttle and not need the Pedals to activate the motor. Is it worth it to go through hassle of cutting off the crank?
Thank you so much for this.I just brought a pedal assisted bike,thinking it was the same as a throttle bike ( I saw one last week and nearly brought that and then brought this instead for fitness reasons
Do you have to keep up with the pedals on a pedal assist system? (Going faster will the pedals go around faster?)
There is a freewheel which makes it so the wheel can spin faster than the pedals like most normal bikes.
can you adjust the torque needed for the motor to start helping you ? For example if i need to start in uphill, i need all the help in the beging , cause i have problem with my knee...
This is the benefit of a proper torque sensing motor, it will give you extra assist when you need it most like starting and going up a hill.
"I really can't hate on that, I think that's a good time..."
Throttle possibly better for older riders as speed more predictable.
Shame pedal assist doesn't come with a temporary "boost" button to get u away from the lights
@@Paul_C No I haven't, every year as I travel around Europe I see more and more eBikes and think they look fun but haven't owned one, still a "spectator"
The Vanmoof bikes have a turbo boost button like what you're describing, temporary power boost
www.vanmoof.com/blog/en/ride-the-future-turbo-boost
A simple programmable controller like my SW900 gives me an adjustable peddle assist with throttle.Having the throttle is a must for me its safe having the brakes cut off the motor i can use like a clutch to deliver power.
That’s great that you’ve found a solution which works for you. Have you ever tried a bike with the Bosch motor system? I’m wondering what your thoughts are on that.
I have not used anything but my daily driver 1000w hub motor so simple and no problems for 5 years.
Excellent, thank you.
Great video man
Thanks 🙏
Fabulous thorough but very understandable video, as usual! You do an incredible job. I’ve had an e-bike for 3 years and ride it primarily in N California Sierra foothills but in roads. It’s a Specialized Turbo Vado 3.0. I definitely will visit your California shop next time I’m in SoCal. Thanks for your incredible videos. By the way I totally agree probably 95% of persons looking for an e-bike don’t need throttle assist. Pedal assist on the better models is like magic!
Thanks that was informative. I’m looking for a cargo bike to primarily use with a 140 lb mobility impaired passenger with me at 150 lb aged 60. Debating between Tern GSD S00, R&M multicharger with Rolhoff or maybe a cheap entry level throttle, such as the Radwagon. Tub bikes won’t work for the passenger. Round trip of about 15 miles, bikes needs to manage gradients. Any opinions welcomed.
Thanks for your comment. Technically a weight of 140lbs is above the Multicharger's 120lbs limit, but I'm sure it wouldn't have much trouble. The Benno Boost is another good option, especially the new one coming this Spring. The GSD S00 is quite a popular option for carrying passengers. Having a larger wheel can be helpful for taller adults, but it can also impact your balancing.
Can I ask where you're located, the terrain, distance and elevations you plan to ride?
Propel Electric Bikes
Europe - Town & city urban riding, French Provencal hilltop villages & countryside. Avoid Alps 😂
The Rohloff hub could be helpful for the larger hill climbs. But the CX motor will work well with most drivetrains if you want to save a bit. If you have the opportunity a test ride could help you discern the comfort of these bikes for you as I think they’ll all get the job done.
Propel Electric Bikes thanks for your input, appreciate your time
I love your videos and value your expertise but what an unfair comparison. Pedego isn't in the same league as R & M (even if they compete in price). Even with only a cadence sensor I'd prefer a mid-drive to a torque sensing hub motor. With a mid-drive the cadence sensor can feel intuitive as long as you use the gears as you would on a standard bike & raise the PAS level as you would raise your gears.
On power & its effect on range I can't agree. Just because you can use more power doesn't mean you have to. The battery will only use as much power as you ask of it.
I have a throttle. I do like it for just the reason you mentioned about intersections & only if I haven't downshifted before a stop (a problem never suffered with the Nuvinci hub on that beautiful R & M). The throttle is a fun novelty but not needed if you want to ride as opposed to drive.
Good feedback. I wasn’t really trying to compare the bikes as they would be an unfair comparison. I simply wanted to show how the different systems work. I do agree you can make a cadence sensor work, but it’s still a chore and it’s not going to compare to a proper torque sensing system. I know some like it, but I guess maybe that’s a personal opinion.
@@Propelbikes I've ridden both and definitely prefer torque sensing. I just think that most cadence sensors are not particularly sensitive and set to give too much power abruptly instead of slowly amping up. That said they can be more intuitively set than they usually are (I think to give that initial impression of power).
I have question too ask you without battery for pedal assist mod drive motor
How fast can one go on a Verve 2 or 3+ with a Bosch mid drive motor?
I like the cheap cadence sensor ecotric hammer ebike I have, But good info here.
Thanks for the information.
Please, can I combine the two(pedal assistant and throttle) in one bike
QUESTION THAT NO VIDEO ON RUclips ANSWERS! Can the range of intermittent use of throttle be better than pedal assist? (AKA only using the Throttle for hills and otherwise pedaling unassisted)Also pedaling at the same time as using the throttle (Like a normal person) This is how a lot of people ride and is a big reason a lot of people prefer throttle and swear by its range capabilities.
What kind of water bottle holder do you have?
Throttle bikes are the real car replacement but should be capped under 25mph.
I don’t think you need a throttle for an ebike to be a car replacement. I know hundreds of people personally who have replaced their car with a purely pedal assist bike. This may be your solution, but it’s by no means the only one. I don’t mean to be argumentative, but I just wanted to provide some feedback from another perspective. Do you feel pedal assist bikes aren’t good for replacing cars?
It doesn't really convince me. I have both throttle and assist. The assist is limited to 25km/h and the throttle to 45km/h so you can actually feel the speed difference a lot. Specially when sharing the road with cars.
What's the name of the bike with the throttle
Was a good video but when you tested the bikes from the pole to the other pole you pedal on both bikes and the sun made it hard to tell which was witch lol but I'll give this video a 7/10 .
Does anyone know where I can buy a throttle assist ebike in uk