it would be interesting to know more about Ancalagon. Glaurung, as the father of the dragons was a high ranking "general" in Morgoths army right after his "birth" and i would say only Sauron and Gothmog held a higher position. Given Ancalagons massive size it is no real debate that he was the mightiest dragon ever lived. Combine that with the wit, malice and whole nature that we saw from both Glaurung and Smaug, i would say he could be a real contender for the number 2 spot. Glaurung was also capable of using magic, we can assume that Ancalagon could do the same.
I mean, by the time Ancalagon was revealed Gothmog was dead and Sauron had been cock slapped around by Luthien and her dog, so everyone thought he was a little bitch anyways. He'd have been number 2 fa show.
@@KS-xk2so Granted, Huan was a great wolfhound of Oromë that was given to Celegorm as a gift . But I've no doubt that Sauron is still bitter and humiliated over his loss to Lúthien and Huan even well into the Third Age by the events of the Lord of the Rings. Especially considering he's an immortal being, and as such, he perceives time far differently than humans or any other species of a similar life-span. What may be thousands of years to us, may only be a few weeks or so to Sauron.
@@GodMajik So in the movies, they name certain "movie only" characters after things from the Tolkien legendarium. Gothmog in the books, specifically the Silmarillion, is actually the Captain of the Balrogs, he was equal to Sauron in Morgoth's armies. They were his two generals. In the movies, they named that goofy looking tumor riddled orc General in ROTK after him. Just like in that move the big wolfs head ram they use to break down Gondor's gate, Grond, was actually named after Morgoth's hammer from the Silmarillion as well.
@@KS-xk2so Ahhh I see! I always envisioned the captain of the Balrog to be of a more tragic fate but I didn’t realise they had named these characters after these first age characters, I figured it was like a reincarnation kind deal like Aragon and Arwen (I saw a vid talking about how they basically are a rehash of a tragic love story), thank you so much for explaining!
The Eye of Sauron is still to this day one of the coolest things in cinema. The whole concept of it being a flaming eye which is also a portal/view into the hellscape he walks.
Jake another amazing video, I hope we could see just a small flashback of this villians in LOTR on prime!!! But In my opinnion Gothomg and Glaurung are greatest servantes of Morgoth! Great video as alwqys!!!!!
Ungoliant came from the void itself, not created by any Valar or even Eru Illuvatar even. For that reason I don't think anyone can make any assumptions on how powerful she is in the comments, she very well may have been able to match a Valar (and this may have depended upon how much she has fed too). She stems from Tolkien's arachnophobia I'm pretty sure, to claim her as something born out of the void, not created, means she is more a force of nature, an unholy one (some say she is based on Nyx). She is definitely one of the most dangerous beings in the lore, her power level remain a mystery but that's OK, Tolkien never explained everything, most good authors don't, and in this case it suits her inception.
But the discourse of Melkor disrupted Eru Illuvatars perfect music and created many dark things unspoken and unseen and quite a few people suspect that is where Ungoliant came from
Sully she is weak though like she got driven out by balrogs BALROGSS WHO ARE NOTHING COMPARED TO VALAR and sauron at the height of his power was nothing compared to valar seriously plus morgoth is significantly weaker wayyy weaker i did say about only using 3 or 4 % of his power or could be lessar than that when he was with that spider and she was still listening to him like a servant so yeah check the lore before you comment
She was and far most one of Melkors creation during the music because nothing was in the void. Eru was the only one and it started from there. Melkor discord created a lot of dark creatures.
I don’t think Ungoliant was always as strong/stronger than a Valar. Remember, at the time she was able to threaten Morgoth she was empowered by eating the light of the Two Trees, which were probably the most powerful magical artifacts in existence in the history of Middle Earth. She became drastically stronger after this. Now whether she stayed this strong forever we don’t know. Maybe she did, and she remained a match of the Valar for the rest of her life. Or maybe her power diminished again as she “digested” her meal. Personally I think it’s the latter, and that this also explains her ravenous hunger that leads to her (probably) devouring herself. No meal after the trees could sustain her new strengthened body/spirit, resulting in a madness of hunger, if you will. Great video!
I agree with this. Ungoliant was only as strong as whatever her next meal was. The day she consumed the Two Trees would be the ONLY day she could briefly eclipse Morgoth in power.
@@hugo-pg5tv Now that I think about it, Ungoliant was probably actually the first evil entity to ever exist. Although Melkor/Morgoth was the one to introduce it, Ungoliant was the first one to practice it I guess. I guess Melkor could still be considered the first evil entity because "evil" depends on the perspective.
Another great video, thank you. Just a thought and maybe not shared by others or the algorithm however, in a few cases you mention you don't wish to duplicate information in these videos or refer to other videos. One of the things I enjoy about this channel and others like it, is that its like being down at the pub geeking out with your friends. As Hobbits have often said, good stories get better in the telling and I think some longer videos like this one where the individual entries are explored in a little more detail, including your own thoughts about the characters or ideas and theories would be really enjoyable.
Kind of. Melkor doesn't himself possess the power to create true sentience, no Valar does, only Eru Illuvatar. Melkor changing the song, which contained Eru's power, is what created her and the other nameless things in the deep and dark corners of the world. All evil things in the world really.
I think that Ungoliant is a little overblown in that she was fighting a depleted Morgoth while she had just received an amp. Still impressive but she isn't some almighty Valar killer.
Actually, Melkor, by the time he started getting called Morgoth (his confrontation with Ungoliant), was vastly diminished over the ages from what he once was in his prime as the greatest of the Valar by far due to his numerous misdeeds (and having poured some of his power into his many servants), having poured much of his power and essence into Arda to bend and corrupt it to his will, and having been permanently incarnated into a physical body (where he is now much more vulnerable to harm) where he loses the ability to take any form he pleases and any potential wounds he suffers from do not heal, like his scars given by Thorondor, the limp given to him by Fingolfin, and the Silmarils burning his hands. And I certainly wouldn't say that Ungoliant was considerably more powerful than any of the Valar or that she was even stronger than any of them in the first place, but especially the Aratar (although her Unlight did hold off Tulkas for a time). I mean, her being driven off by the Balrogs really doesn't lend credence to that idea, regardless of whether she could have taken them on or not. And then there's when she was repelled by Melian, a Maia, when Ungoliant tried to enter Doriath. I understand that Melian was one of the greatest among the Maiar, but she was still just a Maia, one that happened to serve Vána (a non-Aratar Vala, or lesser/regular Vala in other words) prior to Melian's departure to Middle-earth and then presumably going back to Valinor to serve under Vána once more after Thingol's death and the sacking of Doriath. And especially since you ranked Sauron higher than Ungoliant, and it's quite obvious that Sauron, at the height of his power with the One Ring in the Second Age, is NOT even close to rivaling any of the Valar and especially not, once again, any of the Aratar. Furthermore, Sauron was specifically stated by Tolkien to only be "greater effectively in the Second Age than Morgoth at the END of the First Age". I'm sure I don't need to say how further diminished Melkor has become by that point long after his confrontation with Ungoliant.
I think Sauron was dramatically more powerful than ALL of the Valar combined when he held the One Ring. It’s why they were so terrified of him they sent the Wizards to do basically espionage instead of going themselves to deal with him like they did with Morgoth. They knew that even if they assembled all of their power and armies Sauron would use his power more directly to simply wipe them off the map. That being said had they failed it’s pretty obvious Sauron would have reshaped the world to invade Valinor anyway, now with powerful men at his side, guaranteeing the end of the Valar and Valinor. He then would have gotten on his hover bike and rode away like in the Heman memes, before waking up and realizing he had another wet dream.
@@Timenaught Oh, my apologies. I actually didn't read the last sentence since I too quick to jump to conclusions. But again, I apologize for acting like an imbecile, not that it actually means much since what has just happened, happened if that makes any sense.
Although Sauron was Morgoth's second in command and no doubt powerful in his own way, as shown in the power of the One Ring in which he literally poured his malice and power, i believe he was more powerful in wit and mind rather than in combat and pure strength.
Nah, each age had its protagonists becoming less and less powerful. Sauron is basically Morgoth reincarnated, but less powerful. Sauron does not seems much clever than Morgoth, who was capable of tricking the other gods.
He was also an increible sorcerer, the greatest in Morgoths army. He was unable to take down Gil Galad and Elendil in close combat, so he gad to resort to his magic.
@@MidnightatMidian With the exceptions of Tulkas and Ulmo, of course. And how about Melkor also sowing seeds of discord and mistrust among the Noldor against the Valar over an extended period of time, and in particular, using Fëanor's pride and short temper against him to his favor. It's also reasonable to say that Melkor was once the greatest or amongst the greatest in terms of the mind in his prime, but over the ages, his malice and corruption slowly compromised his rationality, thus rendering him less calculating and level-headed and more reckless and impulsive and even shortsighted. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, you don't get to be considered by far the greatest of the Ainur in your prime without intellect and such playing a factor in said greatness.
8:00 Now I dont think Ungoliant was more powerful than any indidvidual Valar UNTIL Melkor imbued her with his own power and she drank the light of the trees and the walls of Varda, only then was Melkor afraid.
Something about, "The Battle of Unnumbered Tears" or, Nirnaeth Arnoediad from the first moment I read it invoked something within my mind and I had to learn to speak the words properly and I have thought much upon what a battle deserving of such a name must have been like.
No those were inspired by the role playing game Vampire the Masquerade. But then again VTM rpg would not be around if not for Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons would not be around if not for LOTR. ;)
Ungoliant is an interesting one. I see what you mean, but 2 things need to be considered with her confrontation with Melkor. 1 - She had just consumed the sap of the 2 trees of valinor and grew greatly in size and power because of this 2 - Melkor was wery from his travels and in a weaker than normal state due to being inprisoned for 3 ages (Nerd of the Rings has mentioned this a few times) So I'd say that Ungoliant in her normal form would not be on the power of a Melkor, Ulmo, or Tulkas, but rather that of a lesser spirit (Miair). Regardless I love your content :) subcribed.
Sauron used some spells/powers like: a) Volcano Control - Orodruin; b) Shapeshift; c) Earthquake; d) Weather Control; e) Dominate Monster; f) Mass suggestion; g) antimagic field; h) Sympathy; i) Create undead; J) Dispel Magic; Etc These powers were used by Melkor/Morgoth. I don't emember another servant who could do the same.
Well a lot of people believe, me included, that Sauron was Morgoth reincarnated. I don't remember exactly, but there's a description of him which states that vaguely.
@@oscurosignore8026 MMh not at all. It was his third incarnation. It is told in the beginning when the ainur were singing the song with Iluvatar, he had to stop the music 3 times because of Melkor. It mirror the 3 ages. Also Melkor was a god, much more intelligent. Their goals are totally similar too. Domination over Midlle earth and subversion of Elves and Humans.
@@MidnightatMidian it is a theory that Sauron is Morgoth reincarneted, but it is wrong. It is much correct to say that Sauron is the spiritual heir of Morgoth ( i don't know if there is this term in english that is present in italian), Morgoth and Sauron have different goal, Morgoth wants the ruins of Arda, Sauron wants a perfect world under his dominion, a machina without freedom under his will. He serves Morgoth because he admires who is better than him, he saw in Morgoth the power that can change the world, but he was corrupted by Morgoth, and with his influence and the Sauron's project of perfection all has become what we read in silmarillion and in the lord of the rings about Sauron personality, he isn't the Morgoth's reincarnation, he is the Morgoth's heir.
I think that Sauron has an ability (by using the Morgoth Ingredient as a prerequisite for his "magic") to nullify the powers of his enemies: a) Sauron captures Minas Tirith on Tol Sirion: (...) when the power of Ulmo was in that water (...); b) Sauron tanked and repelled lightning bolts sent by Manwë on the temple of Melkor in Númenor; c) Samwise Gamgee at Sammath Naur in his great need drew out the phial of Galadriel (with the light of Earendil) but it was pale and cold, because all other powers were here subdued; d) And Galadriel's power in Lothlorien. Dol Guldur's armies could not conquer the elven realm unless Sauron himself had arrived. Remembering that Lórien is (in my opinion) a "dimension/pocket" where the time (forest, river, the air. Not for people) and space are different from the other places of Middle Earth: "Anyone would think that time did not count there. And perhaps that was the way of it (...) in that land, maybe, we were in a time that has elsewhere long gone by." This sets him apart from other Maiar. Sauron must also possess a pluripotency (with the use of Morgoth Element in the matter) to a lesser degree than Melkor/Morgoth. what do you think of this idea?
When comes to power i think ppl focus way to much on destructive power, like 'who would win in a 1x1 fight', BUT i think we should just look at ALL powers even those who in theory are not very useful in a fight to get to conclusions. for example: is sauron more powerful than ancalagon? could he defeat ancalagon in a 1x1 fight? i think the answer is no, ancalagon would problably stomp him, BUT that doest make ancalagon more powerful overall, he might have more destructive power, but sauron has more diverse power and knowledge about arda. So even if one might be able to defeat another in a 1x1 fight, doest make him more powerful overall. another example is morgoth running away from tulkas when the later got inside arda for the first time. is tulkas more powerful than morgoth overall? No, morgoths powers seems to be far more diverse overall, but in a fight Tulkas might win. good video btw!
Tulkas only scare Morgoth because he isn't how he was originally, original Melkor would wreck Tulkas, superior in every way. How did Ancalagon die? You think Sauron could not muster the force to do that?
@@Dante-vf4sd Melkor ran from tulkas before the years of the lamp, he still had most, if not all his powers. and no, i dont think sauron could defeat ancalagon, how exactly is he supposed to do that?
@@Ablon94 Sorry but no, he'd already put lots of his power into creation, at the point he was created and to were he first entered Arda he was beyond all other created beings, so many Ch so that other Valar were stayed to be unnerved by making eye contact. Again, how did Ancalagon get killed? Yes Sauron could easily muster that kind of attack.
@@Dante-vf4sd i dont know what you mean by "put lots of his power into creation', he cant create. if you are talking about marred arda, ok. When comes to sauron, there's nothing in the text that suggest he could come up with suck a powerful attack. In a combat even with the one ring in th second age, he got defeated by elendil and gil galad (even if both of them also died in the process). Sauron was also defeated in a 1x1 combat against huan. If he cant even strike Huan down, do you really think he can deal with ancalagon? come on...
Blind ambition, which proved to be his undoing. How many real-world examples do we have throughout history? The meaning & power behind Tolkien's compilations of allegories is unrivaled. Kick-ass logo BTW.
Those others, the first and most powerful who turned from Eru, are loyal only to Melkor, Master of the Fates of Arda, not a mere Smith of Aule. Keep your orcs and be content.
Don't get me wrong, tricking an entire island into thinking they were on par in terms of equality to the valar and having their island sink into the ocean was pretty dope, let's face it; but come on, I mean have you tried Melkor's barbecued Kine of Araw? It's delicious.
@@jdatkin8601 If Sauron was second in command and the chief captain or whatever, he would be giving them orders and they would obey him right, surely they would follow Sauron in order to further carry out Morgoths plans
@@Dante-vf4sd I know Sauron was the Captain of Angband but I don't believe he was actively commanding others. Gothmog controlled the armies, Glaurung lead assaults on fortified positions and seemingly Ancalagon lead the fire drakes. None of these would ultimately answer to Sauron while Morgoth was still on the stage. Can you imagine Morgoth delegating such power?
@@jdatkin8601 Sauron was stated to be the "chief captain of the servants of Morgoth" right? If he's the chief captain surely that means he's been given the position above all others below Morgoth, if he says jump they'd have to jump.
What I always wonder about is, how did he make dragons if he cannot create anything? He made orcs by corrupting and mutating elves, he made trolls possibly by corrupting ents, he put evil spirits in wolves, but how did he make dragons, and the flying things that the nazgul ride on?
He crossbred different animals he had corrupted with his more powerful servants, or possibly himself, to create the dragons. By doing this he adds bestiality to the long list of abominations he perpetrated to fulfill his ends.
In terms of pure power, Ungoliant overpowers Morgoth, the most powerful Valar created by Eru itself. Now, I think it's debatable, whether in the destroying of the two trees, that Ungoliant was servant or still a partner. Also, Ungoliant, by that time, did not trust Melkor's leadership. Yet, Melkor was able to convince Ungoliant to, essentially "serve" him by allying their powers to achieve Melkor's goal, with the booty of jewels to be Ungoliant's as payment for services rendered. Therefore, IMO, Ungoliant was also recruited to be and was a servant of Melkor in the destroying of the two trees. Thus, I concluded that Ungoliant has to be ranked #1. And this channel has become my favorite channel for all things Tolkien. Thank you @The Broken Sword. It's always my pleasure to explore such voluminous content and clarifications of the writings of the Man who is also, IMO, High Fantasy itself. Cheers !!!!
Bruh it took 7 balrogs to scare her away and they are nowhere near a valar and that was morgoth and is insanly weakened. Ancalagon would destroy ungoliant in a battle
Dont know about that. Especially in the 30s/40s and again 50s/60s vampires, werewolves etc were quite big because of the universal and hammer-movies. And even that was not enough that tolkien added much of them. I dont think that would have changed in the 80s.
@@maxmercer1931 What i wanted to say was, that if he wanted to include these creatures more, he totally would have done it already at that point. Oh, and, no. The movies were pretty good for there time.
@@seimen4348 the shapeshifting FX in the 80's movies would have inspired Tolkien to a greater level of horror. Also, Tolkien wouldn't have been limited to mere Vampires and Werewolves. There were other entities he could have included in his legendarium. The horror movies of the 30's 40's and 50's were quite worthless. It's possible Tolkien read pulps like Lovecraft and Robert E Howard. But it wasn't until the 80's that those authors were brought to the silver screen
@@maxmercer1931 I am just saying: You dont argue with facts. You argue with things you wanna interprete into it because you want it, because you like it and you love the idea that he would loved that too. But that is a fantasy. Thats all i can say anymore.
In fairness Angoliant was only physically more powerful than Morgoth at that point in time because Morgoth had already used his power to corrupt all things. He had already created Morgoths Ring, he weakend himself to do it much like Sauron did later, but unlike Sauron, Morgoth weakend himself to ensure that he could never be destroyed as long as the world exists because he had become a part of it. That is why the world is supposedly remade after Dagor Dagorath, it is to finally rid the world of Morgoth. Before Morgoth did this he was more powerful than all other Ainur so naturally more powerful than Angoliant aswell.
Shelob is pretty epic as well... I know she's the offspring of Ungoliant, but still... And just wanted to say that I find it pretty cool that Ungoliant devoured herself lol
An interesting video. So, I have a dumb question, and I'm sorry its not more related, but I thought of it when you mentioned even Ancalagon's hell flame couldn't unmade the One Ring. Sauron was a master craftsman, and could make amazing items; he forged the One Ring, used its power to raise Barad-dur, and on. Even his immortal body was killable, so his power didn't make him inviolate, yet his Ring was Indestructible, for the most part. While that is an impressive feat, one might claim that even lesser smith's did similar; the Gondorians created the black tower of Isengard, Orthanc, which was seemingly Indestructible. Even the mighty Ents could only snap their potent limbs against it, and do it no harm. So, why didn't Sauron use some of this craft to make himself invulnerable armor? I don't think his suit was weak, assuming he was wearing real armor, and it wasn't just a manifestation, and he fought both Gil-Galad and Elendil, with their impressive weapons, for a fair time, before they all killed each other, but if he could make his Ring immune to harm, why limit it to the gold band, and not a more protective item?
What-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
Actually atleast in the film of Five armies there is a refrence to vampiers. When Legolas i at the Gates of dol guldur, he says the vampiers are swarming. And later when he tries to save thorin he uses a vampire to get a free ride up the mountain. Cant remember if its realy in the book since its been a long while since i read it. But best regards for increadible Good informative and narriative dokumentaries. Many good wishes from Sweden.
Hold on a second. Gothmog, the mightiest of the balrogs... had bodyguards? And they were trolls?😭that's like putting me to bodyguard Dwayne Johnson, LoL
My favorite and go to channel for everything Tolkien. Wish they had hired you guys to give them persepective on the Amazon Channel beacuse am so nervous about that upcoming series.
I'm as much of a Tolkien Geek as the next guy, and I always had a question. Balrogs are fallen Maiar in service of Morgorth, Sauron is a fallen Maiar in the service of Morgorth. I realize that beings of free will don't have to obey the commutative property, but...what's the dif? Was it simply that Sauron was a mightier Maiar than Gothmog and the gang? Or were the Balrogs only those Maiar who turned to Melkor before time, when he was so vast that he could contend against all of the Ainu before the throne of Eru? If the later is the case, personal choice and thought are not ony irellevant, they simply cease to be. Was Sauron so powerful in Morgorth's service because he actually "kept his wits about him": had free will to come and go (he almost begged Eonwe for forgiveness!)? This sort of stuff is why Tolkien is unrivalled. The short answer is that Sauron was the most powerful servant because the author said he was! But everything "in world" is so carefully crafted and consistent (even the inconsitencies like Ungloient and Bombadil), that people still seek answers (about a character-in a book-). Amazing
And the most powerful of the good guys? Hobbits. Strange little ground dwellers, small, timid, but with the will to bring down the mightiest in Middle Earth.
He represents "the ends justify the means." I agree with order but my god my dude do you have to burn forests and shit? Sauron could have been the Jesus of Middle-Earth!
@@CorrectionUnknown cirdan the ship right cut down more trees for his boats than lord sauron king of middle earth burnt. The self righteous elves are known for thier lies and propaganda. Sauron did nothing wrong.
For me they are probably just Maiar, just like, Ungoliant, The Great Eagles, Tom Bombadil, the Namless Creatures and so on. Since Tolkien never said how many Maiar there are and said that there are plenty of them, my money is on Maiar. Cheers.
There are a lot of dark and evil nameless creatures in Arda that no one knows much about. An example being whatever dug the deepest tunnels under Moria that Gandalf fought the Balrog in. These creatures were created during the Great Music (Song of Creation) when Melkor started changing the song and created the Discord. While Melkor can't create sentient life, as thats only for Eru, he can take anything that exists in Arda and combine or twist it to his needs. Maybe he found some great reptilian or wyrm creature in the depths of the earth, and then had one of his Balrogs bang it, boom. One of them farts out a dragon.
i would like a video about the size and power comparison of all creautures and characters in all of middle earth including characters like fastitocalon
Im curious to know, Just a though could dragons be Miaar spirits like balrogs. To me its an interesting thought Id love to know your thoughts The Broken Sword. Thanks.
I imagine they're gone forever now. They were spirits of Men, tied to the Nine rings, which were tied to the One ring. Once the Ring was destroyed, they'd finally get the Gift of Men. Then again Turin is supposed to come back somehow as well.. so maybe they could.
It was a serious mistake on Eonwe's part, to not force Sauron to return to Valinor for judgement by the Valar. Since they were both Mair, I believe he had the power to do so, especially since Sauron was in full grovel mode at the time.
He did have the power. He just felt it wasn't right to force him. Another way to look at the history before the second age is to view it as a time-line of all the valars mistakes and the resulting destruction caused by said mistakes
@@chriswilder9719 True. I read that it was because the Valar didn't have enough Faith in Eru's plan, that he would protect the elves and men who he created, that all the wars over the fate of the elves and men even happened. If the Valar hadn't taken it upon themselves to bring the Elves to Aman, which Eru hadn't planned on, then none of the evil that happened because of it would have occured.
Ungoliant strikes me as almost a Lovecraftian sort of being, unimaginably large and dark, consuming all light and life. OOOH its a very good thing such a creature could never fit under my bed!
I think you overestimate the power of Ungoliant, If she's so sure of herself in front of Morgoth, it's because she "drank" all the light from the two trees, what made her growing bigger and bigger in few minutes, Morgoth, by this time was far from his top, and have lost the main part of his power,, that he wasted with all the evil creatures he "modified or "tuned up".....
Is it really fair to say that Ungoliant was more powerful than one Valar but not all? Wasn't it the usual case in that she overwhelmed Melkor because she had grown more and he less? By her consumption from their attack and he by using his power to build his army. It seems that Melkor was usually bested because he allowed himself to be caught in a weakened state.
Melkor allowed Ungoliant to boost herself with the trees plus he himself gave her a part of his power , these are the only reason she was overpowering him before the Balrogs arrived , before they got to the trees she was actually scared of Melkor's power as far as i know
@@davidkosiba624 That's what I thought. Because I remember him making himself scarce when Tulkas came looking for him, and obviously he lost when they came in force. But it seemed that it was usually a case of him losing when not at 100%. The rest of the Valar rested. Apparently he didn't do enough of that.
In absolute terms, Sauron was certainly not more powerful than Ungoliant or even the Dragons. He was more on the level of the Balrogs, maybe slightly above. In relative terms, he was of course second to Morgoth... but only due to the weakness and stupidity of his counterparts who kicked his arse multiple times over and always refrained from destroying him (apparently the Lessons on Morgoth had been forgotten, even by those who were alive at the time). But I guess that's all by design... Eru knew about Melkor's treachery from the very beginning, but he let it happen (because he wanted it to happen). And with the acient peoples' fading a lesser evil could become equally powerful (in relative terms)... and that evil was allowed to survive after Melkor was thrown out of the door. This also means, that in the time after the departure and fading of the ancient races a new even lesser evil (with equal relative power) will emerge to continue the cycle, that Eru willed on the world. But yet another regurgitation was not good for storytelling, hence Tolkien abandoned the New Shadow.
So do we ever get the true DAGO DAGARATH STORY of Morgoth setting off the total destruction of Middle Earth.im not talking about the First age Simirilianan story if im not mistaken He escapes again after the 4th age
It’s never actually stated when or if he escapes any time after the fourth age. Tolkien apparently also wrote off the idea of Dagor Dagarath in one of his letters but, I don’t remember if that was confirmed or if he ever retracted that letter. The event itself was also just a prophecy of the end of Arda where all good faces off against all evil and wins. Tolkien described it in one letter as a Ragnarok like event. AFAIK no one ever continued the main story of events after TLotR. Tolkien did have a book in the works at one point but, eventually dropped the project.
i would say that Ancalagon the black is the most powerful servant of morgoth. Yeah, i know. He aint the big bad in the 2nd and 3rd age, but this dragon would have been capable if not for the giant host and help directly form the valar to destory middle earth UNCHANLLANGED. There is a reason morgoth saw this as a last result weapon. Because i actually fear that after the dragon was unleashed that not even morgoth was capable of controling this giant of a moster himself.
5:24 "pretty much had the same power in terms of control as Sauron" Its not true. Tolkien, (the author) says in the Silmarillion that Sauron was the chief of the 'CAPTAINS' and servants of Morgoth". It means as a high Captain, Gothmog was under Sauron's control. Here is the text: "And there is Sauron. In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy *and becoming his chief captain and servant."* (The Silmarillion, p18) Its exactly the same case with Eonwe's power over the Maiar of Valinor. He had been described as the chief of them, and Sauron had been described the chief of all the captains and servants of the enemy.
Balrogs were not servants of Morgoth. Balrogs were a type of maiar, specifically linked to fire. Basically, Balrogs are fire spirits/angels in non-Tolkien terms. Most of them did side with Morgoth but a few Balrogs remained loyal to Eru and the Valars. The most powerful of all the Balrogs is the one that lead the sun and defend it, she fought of all severvants Morgoth threw at her and kept the light shinning.
@@Dante-vf4sd yeah watched the video again. When he says Sauron was a servant of the Valar, it threw me. Maiar were the servants of the Valar. Silly me
One cannot help but visualize writhing masses of orgiastic orcs breeding like snakes in reeking oily masses. Or is it just me? And while we're on the subject, what about elf sex, Was there grunting and sweaty bosoms, or just angelic siniging alongside the requisite involuntary organic spurting?
it would be interesting to know more about Ancalagon. Glaurung, as the father of the dragons was a high ranking "general" in Morgoths army right after his "birth" and i would say only Sauron and Gothmog held a higher position.
Given Ancalagons massive size it is no real debate that he was the mightiest dragon ever lived. Combine that with the wit, malice and whole nature that we saw from both Glaurung and Smaug, i would say he could be a real contender for the number 2 spot. Glaurung was also capable of using magic, we can assume that Ancalagon could do the same.
I mean, by the time Ancalagon was revealed Gothmog was dead and Sauron had been cock slapped around by Luthien and her dog, so everyone thought he was a little bitch anyways. He'd have been number 2 fa show.
@@KS-xk2so Granted, Huan was a great wolfhound of Oromë that was given to Celegorm as a gift . But I've no doubt that Sauron is still bitter and humiliated over his loss to Lúthien and Huan even well into the Third Age by the events of the Lord of the Rings. Especially considering he's an immortal being, and as such, he perceives time far differently than humans or any other species of a similar life-span. What may be thousands of years to us, may only be a few weeks or so to Sauron.
@@KS-xk2so isn’t Gothmog the orc? I’ve never had a chance to read the books
@@GodMajik So in the movies, they name certain "movie only" characters after things from the Tolkien legendarium. Gothmog in the books, specifically the Silmarillion, is actually the Captain of the Balrogs, he was equal to Sauron in Morgoth's armies. They were his two generals. In the movies, they named that goofy looking tumor riddled orc General in ROTK after him. Just like in that move the big wolfs head ram they use to break down Gondor's gate, Grond, was actually named after Morgoth's hammer from the Silmarillion as well.
@@KS-xk2so Ahhh I see! I always envisioned the captain of the Balrog to be of a more tragic fate but I didn’t realise they had named these characters after these first age characters, I figured it was like a reincarnation kind deal like Aragon and Arwen (I saw a vid talking about how they basically are a rehash of a tragic love story), thank you so much for explaining!
The Eye of Sauron is still to this day one of the coolest things in cinema. The whole concept of it being a flaming eye which is also a portal/view into the hellscape he walks.
Perfect timing. I couldn't sleep
Same i couldn’t sleep too
Same lmao 2 am Chicago rn
Jake another amazing video, I hope we could see just a small flashback of this villians in LOTR on prime!!! But In my opinnion Gothomg and Glaurung are greatest servantes of Morgoth! Great video as alwqys!!!!!
Ungoliant came from the void itself, not created by any Valar or even Eru Illuvatar even. For that reason I don't think anyone can make any assumptions on how powerful she is in the comments, she very well may have been able to match a Valar (and this may have depended upon how much she has fed too). She stems from Tolkien's arachnophobia I'm pretty sure, to claim her as something born out of the void, not created, means she is more a force of nature, an unholy one (some say she is based on Nyx). She is definitely one of the most dangerous beings in the lore, her power level remain a mystery but that's OK, Tolkien never explained everything, most good authors don't, and in this case it suits her inception.
But the discourse of Melkor disrupted Eru Illuvatars perfect music and created many dark things unspoken and unseen and quite a few people suspect that is where Ungoliant came from
Sully she is weak though like she got driven out by balrogs BALROGSS WHO ARE NOTHING COMPARED TO VALAR and sauron at the height of his power was nothing compared to valar seriously plus morgoth is significantly weaker wayyy weaker i did say about only using 3 or 4 % of his power or could be lessar than that when he was with that spider and she was still listening to him like a servant so yeah check the lore before you comment
She was a fallen majar
The Void is Oblivion itself - it doesn’t create anything. The first response to you covers it…
She was and far most one of Melkors creation during the music because nothing was in the void. Eru was the only one and it started from there. Melkor discord created a lot of dark creatures.
I don’t think Ungoliant was always as strong/stronger than a Valar. Remember, at the time she was able to threaten Morgoth she was empowered by eating the light of the Two Trees, which were probably the most powerful magical artifacts in existence in the history of Middle Earth. She became drastically stronger after this.
Now whether she stayed this strong forever we don’t know. Maybe she did, and she remained a match of the Valar for the rest of her life. Or maybe her power diminished again as she “digested” her meal. Personally I think it’s the latter, and that this also explains her ravenous hunger that leads to her (probably) devouring herself. No meal after the trees could sustain her new strengthened body/spirit, resulting in a madness of hunger, if you will.
Great video!
I agree with this. Ungoliant was only as strong as whatever her next meal was. The day she consumed the Two Trees would be the ONLY day she could briefly eclipse Morgoth in power.
Morgoth wasn't Melkor anymore at that time, since his powers diminished so much.
Ungoliant wasn't even able to attack melkor at his lowest
@@hugo-pg5tv Now that I think about it, Ungoliant was probably actually the first evil entity to ever exist. Although Melkor/Morgoth was the one to introduce it, Ungoliant was the first one to practice it I guess. I guess Melkor could still be considered the first evil entity because "evil" depends on the perspective.
@@captainfighter7666 we don't know if she wad evil she just wanted to eat
Another great video, thank you.
Just a thought and maybe not shared by others or the algorithm however, in a few cases you mention you don't wish to duplicate information in these videos or refer to other videos.
One of the things I enjoy about this channel and others like it, is that its like being down at the pub geeking out with your friends.
As Hobbits have often said, good stories get better in the telling and I think some longer videos like this one where the individual entries are explored in a little more detail, including your own thoughts about the characters or ideas and theories would be really enjoyable.
“Sauron listen I’m happy for you and imma let you finish… but Morgoth was the greatest dark lord of middle earth of ALL TIME!”
If our theory is correct, then you could technically say that Ungoliant was "created" by Melkor-during the Ainulindale & the Discord of Melkor.
Perhaps, also melkor wasn't aware of those creations including the nameless things who lie in the far depths of the world...
Kind of. Melkor doesn't himself possess the power to create true sentience, no Valar does, only Eru Illuvatar. Melkor changing the song, which contained Eru's power, is what created her and the other nameless things in the deep and dark corners of the world. All evil things in the world really.
I think that Ungoliant is a little overblown in that she was fighting a depleted Morgoth while she had just received an amp. Still impressive but she isn't some almighty Valar killer.
Soooo glad you guys came up on my feed! Absolutely love it!
Oh I've heard of them, but you have a really grand way with the prose. Good stuff.
Actually, Melkor, by the time he started getting called Morgoth (his confrontation with Ungoliant), was vastly diminished over the ages from what he once was in his prime as the greatest of the Valar by far due to his numerous misdeeds (and having poured some of his power into his many servants), having poured much of his power and essence into Arda to bend and corrupt it to his will, and having been permanently incarnated into a physical body (where he is now much more vulnerable to harm) where he loses the ability to take any form he pleases and any potential wounds he suffers from do not heal, like his scars given by Thorondor, the limp given to him by Fingolfin, and the Silmarils burning his hands. And I certainly wouldn't say that Ungoliant was considerably more powerful than any of the Valar or that she was even stronger than any of them in the first place, but especially the Aratar (although her Unlight did hold off Tulkas for a time).
I mean, her being driven off by the Balrogs really doesn't lend credence to that idea, regardless of whether she could have taken them on or not. And then there's when she was repelled by Melian, a Maia, when Ungoliant tried to enter Doriath. I understand that Melian was one of the greatest among the Maiar, but she was still just a Maia, one that happened to serve Vána (a non-Aratar Vala, or lesser/regular Vala in other words) prior to Melian's departure to Middle-earth and then presumably going back to Valinor to serve under Vána once more after Thingol's death and the sacking of Doriath. And especially since you ranked Sauron higher than Ungoliant, and it's quite obvious that Sauron, at the height of his power with the One Ring in the Second Age, is NOT even close to rivaling any of the Valar and especially not, once again, any of the Aratar. Furthermore, Sauron was specifically stated by Tolkien to only be "greater effectively in the Second Age than Morgoth at the END of the First Age". I'm sure I don't need to say how further diminished Melkor has become by that point long after his confrontation with Ungoliant.
Well said
I think Sauron was dramatically more powerful than ALL of the Valar combined when he held the One Ring. It’s why they were so terrified of him they sent the Wizards to do basically espionage instead of going themselves to deal with him like they did with Morgoth. They knew that even if they assembled all of their power and armies Sauron would use his power more directly to simply wipe them off the map. That being said had they failed it’s pretty obvious Sauron would have reshaped the world to invade Valinor anyway, now with powerful men at his side, guaranteeing the end of the Valar and Valinor. He then would have gotten on his hover bike and rode away like in the Heman memes, before waking up and realizing he had another wet dream.
@@indio4-215 read the last sentence again.
@@Timenaught Oh, my apologies. I actually didn't read the last sentence since I too quick to jump to conclusions. But again, I apologize for acting like an imbecile, not that it actually means much since what has just happened, happened if that makes any sense.
@@indio4-215 Imbecile? Nah, I wouldn’t go nearly that far. It was an easy miss to be fair, but the jokes no good if you put it at the start. 😂
Although Sauron was Morgoth's second in command and no doubt powerful in his own way, as shown in the power of the One Ring in which he literally poured his malice and power, i believe he was more powerful in wit and mind rather than in combat and pure strength.
Nah, each age had its protagonists becoming less and less powerful. Sauron is basically Morgoth reincarnated, but less powerful. Sauron does not seems much clever than Morgoth, who was capable of tricking the other gods.
He was also an increible sorcerer, the greatest in Morgoths army. He was unable to take down Gil Galad and Elendil in close combat, so he gad to resort to his magic.
@@MidnightatMidian With the exceptions of Tulkas and Ulmo, of course. And how about Melkor also sowing seeds of discord and mistrust among the Noldor against the Valar over an extended period of time, and in particular, using Fëanor's pride and short temper against him to his favor. It's also reasonable to say that Melkor was once the greatest or amongst the greatest in terms of the mind in his prime, but over the ages, his malice and corruption slowly compromised his rationality, thus rendering him less calculating and level-headed and more reckless and impulsive and even shortsighted. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, you don't get to be considered by far the greatest of the Ainur in your prime without intellect and such playing a factor in said greatness.
The lack of even a mention to Glaurung is unaccountable
8:00 Now I dont think Ungoliant was more powerful than any indidvidual Valar UNTIL Melkor imbued her with his own power and she drank the light of the trees and the walls of Varda, only then was Melkor afraid.
That was morgoth and he was super weakened when ungoliant attacked him and like 7 balrogs scared her off so in no way is she close to a valar
Thanks for the video! It’s crazy how many movies they could still make if they wanted to.
Another great one. I would love more on the battle of wrath
I think you explain it in a more realistic sense been really enjoying these videos after watching the full x2 trilogy in proper order
Something about, "The Battle of Unnumbered Tears" or, Nirnaeth Arnoediad from the first moment I read it invoked something within my mind and I had to learn to speak the words properly and I have thought much upon what a battle deserving of such a name must have been like.
Could the Tolkien version of werewolves be what inspired the bone changing Lycans from the underworld series??
No those were inspired by the role playing game Vampire the Masquerade.
But then again VTM rpg would not be around if not for Dungeons and Dragons.
Dungeons and Dragons would not be around if not for LOTR. ;)
A lot of the vampire and werewolf tropes came from the Penny Dreadful books from the 1800s. Along with many other supernatural creatures.
Ungoliant is an interesting one. I see what you mean, but 2 things need to be considered with her confrontation with Melkor.
1 - She had just consumed the sap of the 2 trees of valinor and grew greatly in size and power because of this
2 - Melkor was wery from his travels and in a weaker than normal state due to being inprisoned for 3 ages (Nerd of the Rings has mentioned this a few times)
So I'd say that Ungoliant in her normal form would not be on the power of a Melkor, Ulmo, or Tulkas, but rather that of a lesser spirit (Miair).
Regardless I love your content :) subcribed.
I like the way you are going with these last two videos
Sauron used some spells/powers like:
a) Volcano Control - Orodruin;
b) Shapeshift;
c) Earthquake;
d) Weather Control;
e) Dominate Monster;
f) Mass suggestion;
g) antimagic field;
h) Sympathy;
i) Create undead;
J) Dispel Magic;
Etc
These powers were used by Melkor/Morgoth. I don't emember another servant who could do the same.
Well a lot of people believe, me included, that Sauron was Morgoth reincarnated. I don't remember exactly, but there's a description of him which states that vaguely.
@@MidnightatMidian well you're wrong. Definitively.
@@MidnightatMidian for me this is incorrect, because they have different goal and Sauron is much intelligent and cunning than Morgoth.
@@oscurosignore8026 MMh not at all. It was his third incarnation. It is told in the beginning when the ainur were singing the song with Iluvatar, he had to stop the music 3 times because of Melkor. It mirror the 3 ages. Also Melkor was a god, much more intelligent. Their goals are totally similar too. Domination over Midlle earth and subversion of Elves and Humans.
@@MidnightatMidian it is a theory that Sauron is Morgoth reincarneted, but it is wrong. It is much correct to say that Sauron is the spiritual heir of Morgoth ( i don't know if there is this term in english that is present in italian), Morgoth and Sauron have different goal, Morgoth wants the ruins of Arda, Sauron wants a perfect world under his dominion, a machina without freedom under his will. He serves Morgoth because he admires who is better than him, he saw in Morgoth the power that can change the world, but he was corrupted by Morgoth, and with his influence and the Sauron's project of perfection all has become what we read in silmarillion and in the lord of the rings about Sauron personality, he isn't the Morgoth's reincarnation, he is the Morgoth's heir.
One of my favorite videos thus far.
I think that Sauron has an ability (by using the Morgoth Ingredient as a prerequisite for his "magic") to nullify the powers of his enemies:
a) Sauron captures Minas Tirith on Tol Sirion: (...) when the power of Ulmo was in that water (...);
b) Sauron tanked and repelled lightning bolts sent by Manwë on the temple of Melkor in Númenor;
c) Samwise Gamgee at Sammath Naur in his great need drew out the phial of Galadriel (with the light of Earendil) but it was pale and cold, because all other powers were here subdued;
d) And Galadriel's power in Lothlorien. Dol Guldur's armies could not conquer the elven realm unless Sauron himself had arrived. Remembering that Lórien is (in my opinion) a "dimension/pocket" where the time (forest, river, the air. Not for people) and space are different from the other places of Middle Earth:
"Anyone would think that time did not count there.
And perhaps that was the way of it (...) in that land, maybe, we were in a time that has elsewhere long gone by."
This sets him apart from other Maiar. Sauron must also possess a pluripotency (with the use of Morgoth Element in the matter) to a lesser degree than Melkor/Morgoth.
what do you think of this idea?
I think this is an absolutely fantastic point and well made. Really interesting point.
An interesting topic would be the traitors of middle earth
When comes to power i think ppl focus way to much on destructive power, like 'who would win in a 1x1 fight', BUT i think we should just look at ALL powers even those who in theory are not very useful in a fight to get to conclusions. for example: is sauron more powerful than ancalagon? could he defeat ancalagon in a 1x1 fight? i think the answer is no, ancalagon would problably stomp him, BUT that doest make ancalagon more powerful overall, he might have more destructive power, but sauron has more diverse power and knowledge about arda. So even if one might be able to defeat another in a 1x1 fight, doest make him more powerful overall. another example is morgoth running away from tulkas when the later got inside arda for the first time. is tulkas more powerful than morgoth overall? No, morgoths powers seems to be far more diverse overall, but in a fight Tulkas might win. good video btw!
Gay
Tulkas only scare Morgoth because he isn't how he was originally, original Melkor would wreck Tulkas, superior in every way. How did Ancalagon die? You think Sauron could not muster the force to do that?
@@Dante-vf4sd Melkor ran from tulkas before the years of the lamp, he still had most, if not all his powers. and no, i dont think sauron could defeat ancalagon, how exactly is he supposed to do that?
@@Ablon94 Sorry but no, he'd already put lots of his power into creation, at the point he was created and to were he first entered Arda he was beyond all other created beings, so many Ch so that other Valar were stayed to be unnerved by making eye contact. Again, how did Ancalagon get killed? Yes Sauron could easily muster that kind of attack.
@@Dante-vf4sd i dont know what you mean by "put lots of his power into creation', he cant create. if you are talking about marred arda, ok. When comes to sauron, there's nothing in the text that suggest he could come up with suck a powerful attack. In a combat even with the one ring in th second age, he got defeated by elendil and gil galad (even if both of them also died in the process). Sauron was also defeated in a 1x1 combat against huan. If he cant even strike Huan down, do you really think he can deal with ancalagon? come on...
Great video Jake, love Tolkiens villains. Getting a morgul blade tattoo next week
Blind ambition, which proved to be his undoing. How many real-world examples do we have throughout history? The meaning & power behind Tolkien's compilations of allegories is unrivaled. Kick-ass logo BTW.
I was just about to sleep. This is like being read a bedtime story 😄 perfect timing
there was also this one orc in The Blade Of Galadriel, a bow man, the Bow of Morgoth.
Great video as always!!
Nice work dude thanks
I always wondered why the other servants of my master did'nt serve me after his exile to the void.
Those others, the first and most powerful who turned from Eru, are loyal only to Melkor, Master of the Fates of Arda, not a mere Smith of Aule.
Keep your orcs and be content.
Don't get me wrong, tricking an entire island into thinking they were on par in terms of equality to the valar and having their island sink into the ocean was pretty dope, let's face it; but come on, I mean have you tried Melkor's barbecued Kine of Araw? It's delicious.
@@jdatkin8601 If Sauron was second in command and the chief captain or whatever, he would be giving them orders and they would obey him right, surely they would follow Sauron in order to further carry out Morgoths plans
@@Dante-vf4sd I know Sauron was the Captain of Angband but I don't believe he was actively commanding others.
Gothmog controlled the armies, Glaurung lead assaults on fortified positions and seemingly Ancalagon lead the fire drakes.
None of these would ultimately answer to Sauron while Morgoth was still on the stage. Can you imagine Morgoth delegating such power?
@@jdatkin8601 Sauron was stated to be the "chief captain of the servants of Morgoth" right? If he's the chief captain surely that means he's been given the position above all others below Morgoth, if he says jump they'd have to jump.
Great content! However, you did miss the Boldog. These were lesser Maiar spirits who took on the form of orcs, only they were much greater.
Fantastic vid on OG dark lord. I Converted up a Morgoth for MESBG. Not that he has any rules or anything.
What I always wonder about is, how did he make dragons if he cannot create anything? He made orcs by corrupting and mutating elves, he made trolls possibly by corrupting ents, he put evil spirits in wolves, but how did he make dragons, and the flying things that the nazgul ride on?
He crossbred different animals he had corrupted with his more powerful servants, or possibly himself, to create the dragons. By doing this he adds bestiality to the long list of abominations he perpetrated to fulfill his ends.
Eagles maybe?
In terms of pure power, Ungoliant overpowers Morgoth, the most powerful Valar created by Eru itself. Now, I think it's debatable, whether in the destroying of the two trees, that Ungoliant was servant or still a partner. Also, Ungoliant, by that time, did not trust Melkor's leadership. Yet, Melkor was able to convince Ungoliant to, essentially "serve" him by allying their powers to achieve Melkor's goal, with the booty of jewels to be Ungoliant's as payment for services rendered. Therefore, IMO, Ungoliant was also recruited to be and was a servant of Melkor in the destroying of the two trees. Thus, I concluded that Ungoliant has to be ranked #1. And this channel has become my favorite channel for all things Tolkien. Thank you @The Broken Sword. It's always my pleasure to explore such voluminous content and clarifications of the writings of the Man who is also, IMO, High Fantasy itself. Cheers !!!!
Bruh it took 7 balrogs to scare her away and they are nowhere near a valar and that was morgoth and is insanly weakened. Ancalagon would destroy ungoliant in a battle
Loving this chanel even more .
Would love to see a video on huan the hound of Valinor and his fate with werewolves and his curse of speech
I second this. We need more coverage on the Original Goodest Boy.
Beren and Luthien may be my favorite story
@@InfinityX2 I'd assume it was Tolkien's as well, based on how he labelled his and his wife's tombstones.
@@KS-xk2so i did not know that!
Damn you guys really put out content. Love it.
Another amazing video!!
I would have included Glaurung the first dragon among your dragons placement.
If Tolkien had survived into the 80's, the horror movies would've inspired him to add more about Vampires, Werewolves, (Gremlins) to his legendarium.
Dont know about that.
Especially in the 30s/40s and again 50s/60s vampires, werewolves etc were quite big because of the universal and hammer-movies.
And even that was not enough that tolkien added much of them.
I dont think that would have changed in the 80s.
@@seimen4348 how can you compare? 80's horror was far more elaborate and subversive. The 30's and 40's horror were sleep inducing
@@maxmercer1931
What i wanted to say was, that if he wanted to include these creatures more, he totally would have done it already at that point.
Oh, and, no.
The movies were pretty good for there time.
@@seimen4348 the shapeshifting FX in the 80's movies would have inspired Tolkien to a greater level of horror. Also, Tolkien wouldn't have been limited to mere Vampires and Werewolves. There were other entities he could have included in his legendarium.
The horror movies of the 30's 40's and 50's were quite worthless.
It's possible Tolkien read pulps like Lovecraft and Robert E Howard. But it wasn't until the 80's that those authors were brought to the silver screen
@@maxmercer1931
I am just saying:
You dont argue with facts.
You argue with things you wanna interprete into it because you want it, because you like it and you love the idea that he would loved that too.
But that is a fantasy.
Thats all i can say anymore.
cool vid enjoyed Jake loved it
In fairness Angoliant was only physically more powerful than Morgoth at that point in time because Morgoth had already used his power to corrupt all things. He had already created Morgoths Ring, he weakend himself to do it much like Sauron did later, but unlike Sauron, Morgoth weakend himself to ensure that he could never be destroyed as long as the world exists because he had become a part of it. That is why the world is supposedly remade after Dagor Dagorath, it is to finally rid the world of Morgoth.
Before Morgoth did this he was more powerful than all other Ainur so naturally more powerful than Angoliant aswell.
Shelob is pretty epic as well... I know she's the offspring of Ungoliant, but still...
And just wanted to say that I find it pretty cool that Ungoliant devoured herself lol
An interesting video. So, I have a dumb question, and I'm sorry its not more related, but I thought of it when you mentioned even Ancalagon's hell flame couldn't unmade the One Ring. Sauron was a master craftsman, and could make amazing items; he forged the One Ring, used its power to raise Barad-dur, and on. Even his immortal body was killable, so his power didn't make him inviolate, yet his Ring was Indestructible, for the most part. While that is an impressive feat, one might claim that even lesser smith's did similar; the Gondorians created the black tower of Isengard, Orthanc, which was seemingly Indestructible. Even the mighty Ents could only snap their potent limbs against it, and do it no harm.
So, why didn't Sauron use some of this craft to make himself invulnerable armor? I don't think his suit was weak, assuming he was wearing real armor, and it wasn't just a manifestation, and he fought both Gil-Galad and Elendil, with their impressive weapons, for a fair time, before they all killed each other, but if he could make his Ring immune to harm, why limit it to the gold band, and not a more protective item?
Amazing video ! Can you create one about "Is Sauron stronger than one Valar"? Or what if Mordor somehow invade Undying lands?
Sauron is aMaia, they are lesser than the Valar
It is reported in Morgoth ring that Sauron in the second age become more higher in power then Morgoth at the end of first age.
I'd like to hear about the werewolves of the first age as well as huan
What-if video idea for you to do:
What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?
Awesome video!
Actually atleast in the film of Five armies there is a refrence to vampiers. When Legolas i at the Gates of dol guldur, he says the vampiers are swarming.
And later when he tries to save thorin he uses a vampire to get a free ride up the mountain.
Cant remember if its realy in the book since its been a long while since i read it.
But best regards for increadible Good informative and narriative dokumentaries.
Many good wishes from Sweden.
Hold on a second. Gothmog, the mightiest of the balrogs... had bodyguards? And they were trolls?😭that's like putting me to bodyguard Dwayne Johnson, LoL
Yeah but there were like 70-100 of them or something. Body guard doesn't quite cut it, more like a small battalion
My favorite and go to channel for everything Tolkien. Wish they had hired you guys to give them persepective on the Amazon Channel beacuse am so nervous about that upcoming series.
I'm as much of a Tolkien Geek as the next guy, and I always had a question. Balrogs are fallen Maiar in service of Morgorth, Sauron is a fallen Maiar in the service of Morgorth. I realize that beings of free will don't have to obey the commutative property, but...what's the dif?
Was it simply that Sauron was a mightier Maiar than Gothmog and the gang? Or were the Balrogs only those Maiar who turned to Melkor before time, when he was so vast that he could contend against all of the Ainu before the throne of Eru? If the later is the case, personal choice and thought are not ony irellevant, they simply cease to be.
Was Sauron so powerful in Morgorth's service because he actually "kept his wits about him": had free will to come and go (he almost begged Eonwe for forgiveness!)?
This sort of stuff is why Tolkien is unrivalled. The short answer is that Sauron was the most powerful servant because the author said he was! But everything "in world" is so carefully crafted and consistent (even the inconsitencies like Ungloient and Bombadil), that people still seek answers (about a character-in a book-). Amazing
You should do a ‘who would win’ ancalagon vs ungoliant for a bit of fun
And the most powerful of the good guys? Hobbits. Strange little ground dwellers, small, timid, but with the will to bring down the mightiest in Middle Earth.
I agree with sauron completely and think the world would better with him in charge.
He represents "the ends justify the means."
I agree with order but my god my dude do you have to burn forests and shit? Sauron could have been the Jesus of Middle-Earth!
@@CorrectionUnknown cirdan the ship right cut down more trees for his boats than lord sauron king of middle earth burnt. The self righteous elves are known for thier lies and propaganda. Sauron did nothing wrong.
I’m curious if the dragons, especially Ancalagon, were servants of Margoth or if they were more enslaved or worshipped him?
What about Boldogs and Umayars? And the first humans that worshiped Melkor?
Love these videos!
I have a question:
How were the dragons created, because Morgoth only had the power to corrupt, not create, so what did he currupt?
he made a vid about it
Big birds. Or even procriating from Maias with Dragon/Serpent forms.
I don't think there's an explanation, it's just one of those things that's not finished off
For me they are probably just Maiar, just like, Ungoliant, The Great Eagles, Tom Bombadil, the Namless Creatures and so on. Since Tolkien never said how many Maiar there are and said that there are plenty of them, my money is on Maiar. Cheers.
There are a lot of dark and evil nameless creatures in Arda that no one knows much about. An example being whatever dug the deepest tunnels under Moria that Gandalf fought the Balrog in. These creatures were created during the Great Music (Song of Creation) when Melkor started changing the song and created the Discord. While Melkor can't create sentient life, as thats only for Eru, he can take anything that exists in Arda and combine or twist it to his needs. Maybe he found some great reptilian or wyrm creature in the depths of the earth, and then had one of his Balrogs bang it, boom. One of them farts out a dragon.
i would like a video about the size and power comparison of all creautures and characters in all of middle earth including characters like fastitocalon
Im curious to know, Just a though could dragons be Miaar spirits like balrogs. To me its an interesting thought Id love to know your thoughts The Broken Sword. Thanks.
I would love more details about the Beren and Luthien story, like the werewolf you mentioned!
For physically strenght i say ancalagon, for ability i say Sauron.
Ungoliant wasn't match to a vala by herself. She drained the Two Trees, that is what empowered her to the point of surpassing Morgoth.
Fellbeasts was more useful than trolls imo, flying is just such a huge advantage in the world that builds strongholds and castles from stone
Great video.
10:10 Er.. Morgoth now is not the time for hugs mate.
a question, would the Nazgul take part in the Dagor Dagorath?
I imagine they're gone forever now. They were spirits of Men, tied to the Nine rings, which were tied to the One ring. Once the Ring was destroyed, they'd finally get the Gift of Men.
Then again Turin is supposed to come back somehow as well.. so maybe they could.
It was a serious mistake on Eonwe's part, to not force Sauron to return to Valinor for judgement by the Valar. Since they were both Mair, I believe he had the power to do so, especially since Sauron was in full grovel mode at the time.
He did have the power. He just felt it wasn't right to force him. Another way to look at the history before the second age is to view it as a time-line of all the valars mistakes and the resulting destruction caused by said mistakes
@@chriswilder9719 True. I read that it was because the Valar didn't have enough Faith in Eru's plan, that he would protect the elves and men who he created, that all the wars over the fate of the elves and men even happened. If the Valar hadn't taken it upon themselves to bring the Elves to Aman, which Eru hadn't planned on, then none of the evil that happened because of it would have occured.
Ungoliant strikes me as almost a Lovecraftian sort of being, unimaginably large and dark, consuming all light and life. OOOH its a very good thing such a creature could never fit under my bed!
I think you overestimate the power of Ungoliant, If she's so sure of herself in front of Morgoth, it's because she "drank" all the light from the two trees, what made her growing bigger and bigger in few minutes, Morgoth, by this time was far from his top, and have lost the main part of his power,, that he wasted with all the evil creatures he "modified or "tuned up".....
What happens to a Balrog when it dies?
Largest?🤔🤭
Good video, guys.
I wonder if the vampires are fallen Maia of Yavanna
The witch king of angmar would have been a good one
Is it really fair to say that Ungoliant was more powerful than one Valar but not all? Wasn't it the usual case in that she overwhelmed Melkor because she had grown more and he less? By her consumption from their attack and he by using his power to build his army. It seems that Melkor was usually bested because he allowed himself to be caught in a weakened state.
Melkor allowed Ungoliant to boost herself with the trees plus he himself gave her a part of his power , these are the only reason she was overpowering him before the Balrogs arrived , before they got to the trees she was actually scared of Melkor's power as far as i know
@@davidkosiba624 That's what I thought. Because I remember him making himself scarce when Tulkas came looking for him, and obviously he lost when they came in force. But it seemed that it was usually a case of him losing when not at 100%. The rest of the Valar rested. Apparently he didn't do enough of that.
What if Gandalf DID meet Frodo and Aragorn at the Prancing Pony?
In absolute terms, Sauron was certainly not more powerful than Ungoliant or even the Dragons. He was more on the level of the Balrogs, maybe slightly above.
In relative terms, he was of course second to Morgoth... but only due to the weakness and stupidity of his counterparts who kicked his arse multiple times over and always refrained from destroying him (apparently the Lessons on Morgoth had been forgotten, even by those who were alive at the time).
But I guess that's all by design... Eru knew about Melkor's treachery from the very beginning, but he let it happen (because he wanted it to happen). And with the acient peoples' fading a lesser evil could become equally powerful (in relative terms)... and that evil was allowed to survive after Melkor was thrown out of the door.
This also means, that in the time after the departure and fading of the ancient races a new even lesser evil (with equal relative power) will emerge to continue the cycle, that Eru willed on the world. But yet another regurgitation was not good for storytelling, hence Tolkien abandoned the New Shadow.
@4:26 looks like weasel from the suicide squad
Do you guys know what happens to Tauriel after the hobbit?
She only existed in the films, so there would be no story for her after the end of the third film.
So do we ever get the true DAGO DAGARATH STORY of Morgoth setting off the total destruction of Middle Earth.im not talking about the First age Simirilianan story if im not mistaken He escapes again after the 4th age
It’s never actually stated when or if he escapes any time after the fourth age. Tolkien apparently also wrote off the idea of Dagor Dagarath in one of his letters but, I don’t remember if that was confirmed or if he ever retracted that letter. The event itself was also just a prophecy of the end of Arda where all good faces off against all evil and wins. Tolkien described it in one letter as a Ragnarok like event. AFAIK no one ever continued the main story of events after TLotR. Tolkien did have a book in the works at one point but, eventually dropped the project.
How about Sarumon?
He isn't a servant of Morgoth.
Thank you
It didnt say Hurin killed all Gothmog's bodyguards...
i would say that Ancalagon the black is the most powerful servant of morgoth. Yeah, i know. He aint the big bad in the 2nd and 3rd age, but this dragon would have been capable if not for the giant host and help directly form the valar to destory middle earth UNCHANLLANGED. There is a reason morgoth saw this as a last result weapon. Because i actually fear that after the dragon was unleashed that not even morgoth was capable of controling this giant of a moster himself.
I hoped will see the vampires and werewolves at the upcoming TV series.
5:11really? I always thought they were nice guys
5:24 "pretty much had the same power in terms of control as Sauron"
Its not true. Tolkien, (the author) says in the Silmarillion that Sauron was the chief of the 'CAPTAINS' and servants of Morgoth". It means as a high Captain, Gothmog was under Sauron's control. Here is the text:
"And there is Sauron. In the Silmarillion
and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service
of the Enemy *and becoming his chief captain and servant."*
(The Silmarillion, p18)
Its exactly the same case with Eonwe's power over the Maiar of Valinor. He had been described as the chief of them, and Sauron had been described the chief of all the captains and servants of the enemy.
Eonwe is the most powerful Maiar in all forms?
Balrogs are stronger than Dragons in general. Only Ancalagon was the exception. Also Ungoliant is much more powerful and dangerous than Sauron
Balrogs were not servants of Morgoth. Balrogs were a type of maiar, specifically linked to fire. Basically, Balrogs are fire spirits/angels in non-Tolkien terms. Most of them did side with Morgoth but a few Balrogs remained loyal to Eru and the Valars. The most powerful of all the Balrogs is the one that lead the sun and defend it, she fought of all severvants Morgoth threw at her and kept the light shinning.
Nice headcanon but a balrog is a maiar that serve morgoth
Strongest servant (ally) Ungoliant. Most effective Sauron
1.Ungoliant
2.Sauron
3.Ancalagon
4.Gothmog
5.Carcharooth
6.Glaurung
7.Durins Bane
8.Draugurlim
9.Thiungwetith
10.Buldog
Pro Morgoth channels are the best channels
I always thought Sauron was Maiar, not Valar. Guess I got that wrong.
He's a Maiar, not a Valar
@@Dante-vf4sd yeah watched the video again. When he says Sauron was a servant of the Valar, it threw me. Maiar were the servants of the Valar. Silly me
@@jaydub3047 Not at all, easily done.
One cannot help but visualize writhing masses of orgiastic orcs breeding like snakes in reeking oily masses. Or is it just me? And while we're on the subject, what about elf sex, Was there grunting and sweaty bosoms, or just angelic siniging alongside the requisite involuntary organic spurting?
OK, but what if Ungoliant got the silmarills.