Love learning about the Amish! My interest started in high school. My friend and I took a roadtrip to Iowa and called it “in search of Amish”. In college I wrote a letter to an Amish community and asked to spend the summer with a family. I did not receive a response. I so appreciate your channel Lizzie !
I used to be a driver. One of my regular Amish would go over to his cousins who was shunned bc he left. The cousin would also call for rides. Then the cousin told me he was returning. He missed his family to much. After he returned i still drove him and he said something which struck me funny meaning weird. He said he believed everyone should stay in the religion they were born into. I asked why and he said it was the only way he could make sense of staying amish. I dont interfere but he asked what i thought og his logic. I said ive never joined a church and if someone changed beliefs i couldnt see it as a sin. I felt bad for him bc he genuinely didnt want ro be amish except for being with family. After he returned we still listened to his favorite country music where he was the only amish i had the radio for since most like silence bc of their beliefs. He told me he didnt fit in to living non amish or amish. Since he was there for family seemingly only i felt terrible. I also wondered how many only stay bc of family. In his case he was a member when he left and before he came back his parents said he could only see them if he returned. His cousin wasnt trying to convert him but secretly hang out before he returned. I honestly wonder how many stay only for family. I told him once in conversation that if i was born amish i would probably stay if i couldnt see my parents. The whole thing makes me feel sick ro my stomach when i think about his situation.
You know, I think now it starts to make sense to me why shunning is a thing. Cause it’s their way to trick you back into their community. If they didn’t have this rule nobody would return😅 Though, my goodness, it’s just toxic and it’s a pure manipulation do have this rules in my opinion
@@lizzieenswellness- I hope that the guy who originally posted this comment can tell the guy he drove for that he can still have Amish religious beliefs and not be be around the Amish community. Even for you Lizzie, just because you left the Amish community does it mean that God isn't with you anymore. You can still be a big follower and believer in God, without being Amish. This green earth that God has given us people, is filled with followers of Jesus Christ who are not Amish. Are Amish orders the same thing as a denomination or a sect? Isn't that what the Mennonites are? What exactly is an Amish _"Order"_? Like what is meant by the word "order."
Yes but it's different when your entire family and entire community and everyone and everything you've ever known shuns you all at once and you lose literally EVERYTHING
Thank you for explaining this Lizzie, it is obvious that you and your mother love each other, and nothing will ever come between you two! Stay strong!👍
@@lizzieenswellness - Thank you for explaining this Lizzie. So it sounds like, a person is only considered Amish if they are baptized in the church. Is that correct? Or is that correct only among certain Amish orders, because there are different Amish orders. If so, are there certain rules about the age where someone becomes baptized or a member of the church regardless of living in an Amish family? How come your siblings were not baptized in the Amish church? Was it just because they were too young for baptism in the church yet the old enough to decide they wanted to leave? Can you shed some insight on that please?
You’re a really good daughter. I don’t agree with shunning, but you respecting your Mom in that way is the perfect way to keep your relationship with her. I have friends that we shunned, and their families won’t accept them at all. Thank you for showing that there is another way!
That I think is the problem with alot of religions. They are following and making man made rules that truly Jesus would never have excepted. I do not believe he would ever shun anyone . Just my opinion. Can't wait for your next post!
Given that Jesus helped others that society didn't approve of or sectioned away he definitely would not be for shunning. If anything his most ardent supporters were probably those shunned. There is much said whether fact or fiction that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute yet she seems to have been an important person within his circle.
All of religion is man made rules. It’s all just brainwashing and indoctrination nonsense. Its so sad how many are abused into believing in religion and gods. It is all so silly and only all built for control.
I could tell this took a lot of courage for you to talk about. Thank you for sharing such a deeply painful aspect of your leaving the church with us! That means a great deal! ❤️ Also, when I heard you were doing a documentary with a RUclipsr named Drew, I was hoping it was Drew Binksey you were doing the collaboration with!! I have been following him and his adventures forever! He is such an amazing human being, and the absolute perfect perfect person for you to be doing this documentary with! I can't wait to see what you two come out with together! ❤️
This was a fascinating video. It can be hard for others, myself included, to conceptualize being against something but still respect and love someone dearly and respect their wishes. You are very well-spoken and intelligent. Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective.
If this is what shunning is, then ppl are being shun in all religious communities. Same behavior, different way of doing it. They don’t gather and vote on it, they simply ignore you. Been there, dealt with that! Which gave validation to why it was the correct decision for me to move on. I learn so much from this channel, thank you
@@kenlompart9905 , my whole family are Southern Baptist. In my 20s I decided to explore and learn more about other religions. I decided to learn about Buddhism, even though it isn’t really considered as a religion, it’s more so a way of life. I meditated, that’s it. N, because of that, they told me I was a devil worshiper. No one wanted to have anything to do with me, I no longer fit in their little group. Had no idea, my own family members were so shallow in their thinking.
I'm a plain person from a plain community. I work with and worship with the neighboring Amish communities.. 6 days a week with Amish.. Some Sundays I go to my church and some I go to Amish church.. I go to singing with them and attend all the weddings and major events like school programs and community picnics where we play ball. I frolic with them and they frolic for me at my homestead. I am very strongly tied to the community choosing to stay with my plain church but have been approached many times about joining the Amish church.. We have never had to shun before and we don't necessarily follow shunning of others. All churches are supposed maintain shunning when someone is shunned from another church. We are more interested in repenting so we will work with people to help them come to terms with their issue and get them on the right track with counseling
This is upsetting to me as a mother and daughter, I’m so sorry, but I love how you try to honor your mother in her weakness, I pray that one day she can be even more free in her heart and soul because of Jesus. This story is an example of how being a Jesus follower is so different from being a religious person. Bless you
💔 Lizzie it makes me sad that your church has shunned you. But I am so thankful that you still have a relationship with her. And I promise if you have asked Jesus into your heart He will never ever shun you. Thank you for another interesting and thoughtful podcast. Be blessed. Darrell
Lizzie, this is how you honor your parents. I don’t know if you believe there is a God or not. There is a chapter in the Bible about two groups of people who believe differently. One group ate meat, and the other group thought it was wrong to eat meat. In that chapter, the apostle Paul wrote that it is ok for both groups to believe based on their understanding, that each group should respect the other, and nobody should argue about it or try to convince people to believe the same as them. The very basic things most Christians and the Amish would agree about is the Ten Commandments. And one of them says to honor your parents. And what you just described is how you honor your mother. I do believe in God, and He loves you, he sent Jesus to die for you, and I think God will bless you for honoring your mother. I pray for God to bless you, too.
"What is shunning and am I shunned?" My creative brain decided to change one letter In the key words of the title to make the answer better: You are stunning and I am stunned. 😂 (I did listen to the video So I know the title has no typo, But shunning isn't fun for anyone it seems; I'd rather be impressed by someone than have the mess that shunning means. 😅)
My Hutterite friend actually learned most of her “Amish knowledge” from us English. lol those Hutterites like their booze, I think maybe the other anabaptists exclude them. She left the colony, with her boyfriend, she could not handle the Bosses, & wanted to be a real RN & bless Clarence, he came along for her. But they don’t really do shunning, her English friends had to explain to her what it meant since people would ask about her accent & if she was shunned for going English. She finally admitted I was right - sometimes it’s just easier to say you’re a Swiss au pair. No American knows exactly what the Swiss accent sounds like lol, so she just started saying that 😂
Thank you for addressing this subject. Sounds like you and your sisters are able to visit at any time? i.e. no certain number of visits or times? Wondering what your Mom thinks or comments on your English clothes etc. Finally, don't you miss your Mom terribly and wish you could just call her at any time? Also, has she met your son?
We visit within reason to keep respect. Mom never comments on our clothes. She respects us we respect her. It is rare I feel the need of calling her. its been 20 years and my life I so different now
Years back, with family, non Amish, one was shunned for whatever reason, family gathering, we are sane age and been close since our childhood, being English, i shared a meal, sat eith and made him welcome.....today we see less if each other since he lives in Brazil, we are blood and accepting of each other and our different religions. I understand stabd shunning to a point however love should trymp it every time! Your mother awesome!!!
Lizzie, you'll bring it far. I mean, you already did but treating others with respect although you disagree in each other's way of living and keeping them in your heart makes the difference.
Thanks for sharing what is clearly a painful topic. Do you keep in contact with your younger siblings who also left the Amish, so that you all still get to have some of your family of origin around you outside of that community?
I get your decision to respect your mom's wishes. If I had had a good relationship with my mom and was raised Amish, I probably would have done the same. Luckily, my family isn't Amish and doesn't believe in cutting out family regardless if we agree with each other or not. We try to respect each individual's choices as only they can live with those choices.
Your mom is definitely a superstar. It's wonderful that she has not shut you out of her life and you can stay in contact with her. It's very obvious you love her very much.
Thank you for explaining this Lizzie. So it sounds like, a person is only considered Amish if they are baptized in the church. Is that correct? Or is that correct only among certain Amish orders, because there are different Amish orders. If so, are there certain rules about the age where someone becomes baptized or a member of the church regardless of living in an Amish family? How come your siblings were not baptized in the Amish church? Was it just because they were too young for baptism in the church yet the old enough to decide they wanted to leave? Can you shed some insight on that please?
I'm surprised that families have a 'choice' of the level of shunning. Always thought it was all or nothing. Also interesting that the person needs to give their approval even though they know how the vote will go. I suppose it's just a last chance to repent and come back?
Shunning in ALL types is about to come back real hard...Shunning was huge in the south when I was young. People shunned in hard times to survive we are about to see hard times.
Well to be honest you pass first test you answered back the first time. I ask you a question. Have subscribe to other people's channel and ask questions in comments and never hear anything back. Thank you it mean a lot.
She agreed to that when she got baptized. If she wasn’t going to live up to it she should have spoken up then. And not got baptized. Shunning is discipline to someone not keeping their word. A family wouldn’t want to block that discipline. Dont make vows you can’t keep.
I admire your courage. Your mom might call you a friend. But she came through in your voice as her daughter and I can’t imagine being quote quote shunned b.s
If you were to leave your Schwartzentruber Community. For an old order amish community would you still get shunned? Or not because you are still amish ? What if you joined new order?
You know, I think now it starts to make sense to me why shunning is a thing. Cause it’s their way to trick you back into their community. If they didn’t have this rule nobody would return😅 Though, my goodness, it’s just toxic and it’s a pure manipulation do have this rules in my opinion
Is your mom paying a price for not strictly following the churches shunning rules? It sounds like she's just a little bit of a rebel. Maybe a bit of like mother like daughter?
Schwarzentruppen is German and it means The Black Troops. Why does the order which you left have this name? Where did this name come from, what is the origin of the name and the order? Who started the order and who gave it that name?
I don't believe there is ever a right way to shun as it seems to fly in the face of the New Testament which tells us to 'love one another.' Jesus ate with sinners and loved them, he didn't shun them. While the Amish want to 'protect' their group from the wayward person who leaves (a form of control), it gives them the appearance of being 'holier than thou' which is hypocritical. I am so glad you have a good relationship with your mom and she loves you and wants you part of her life. She understands that blood is thicker than water and family is worth more than anything else in life. She realizes she is getting older and so are you, that you are her daughter and to cherish that.
@DTumbleweed1968 I doubt that the shunning practice has religious origins. It's simply a part of German culture to shun people as punishment (and from what I can tell it is mostly the sects with German roots in the US that practice shunning). It was simply a better way than to pursuit a blood feud back in the days and today it is still used to deal with people or families disturbing the public peace (at least in the countryside) or to strongly disassociate from people or groups whose statements or actions you strongly condemn by declaring that they are dead to you and you no longer know them.
@@hmvollbanane1259 Maybe and maybe not. I am German, born and raised in a German home, German is my first language and I have not noticed this in my culture, but I will look closely and re-examine it.
@@vancityturks7611 "du bist für mich gestorben", "ich kenne Sie nicht mehr", "um die machen wir nen weiten Bogen", "mit dem will ich nicht gesehen werden" usw. Wir nennen es nicht explizit "shunning" aber soziales Ausgrenzen als Form einer Strafe ist, zumindest für mich, so ziemlich das typisch biedermeierischste deutsche Verhalten das es nur gibt, gerade in Bezug auf Vereine, Kirchen und Dorfgemeinschaften
The word “shun” is not a word exclusive to Amish. The word “shun” means to persistently avoid, ignore, or reject (someone or something) through antipathy or caution. "he shunned fashionable society". They just choose to use this word as their own. They hijacked the word.
How would an Amish person from the order (or whatever it is called) that you belonged to get in problems when they're not shunning you? In scientology a member who doesn't 'disconnect' (shun) e.g. an ex-member who is vocally critical HIM- OR HERSELF will get disconnected from. This e.g. means that a mom of a son and daughter, whose son is critical of scientology will have to disconnect from her son, or (if she doesn't) will be disconnected from by her daughter, assuming the latter wants to stay in. So this mom would need to make a Sophie's choice. Is it similar for Amish? Or are there different Amish ways of handling this? (As you mention there - in his view - seems to be a 'right' way to shun as this guy told.)
I think that shunning is just a means of control. To try to stop those that have issues with the Amish church and it's rules from leaving. It's cruel and it's wrong and so is the equivalent outside of the church (and other churches), ad others have mentioned in the comments. I'm so pleased that you have contact with your mom, Lizzie. You can't ever understand the hole left in your life when your mother dies, until it happens to you. I would presume that being shunned and not being able to contact your mother must evoke similar feelings of loss and losing contact with the rest of your family just heaps on the hurt. When you hug your mom Lizzie, do it for all of us that can't hug our mothers anymore too. And to anyone who is reading that still has their mother in their life, give her an extra big hug when you see her and remember how lucky you are. I'd love to hug my mum, but I haven't been able to for a long, long time 😭
@@lizzieenswellness I'm so sorry - I was hoping that your mom would allow some physical contact with you leaving the church - obviously she's sticking to the rules there too (shame about the accepting money too). Can you at least hold her hand, or is that not even allowed? I'll bet that you hug your son all of the time. I've certainly hugged all my kids and still do even though they're adults now. I'm so sorry for the loss of your father - losing parents when you're teenagers is especially difficult and you were barely a teenager. I wish that I'd been able to have an adult relationship with my mum but she died before that could happen. I've had to swallow down occasional feelings of jealousy when I've seen friends out with their mothers - they have no idea how lucky they are. I don't know if you have similar feelings about friends who still have their fathers in their lives.
There is no right way of shunning! Look what scientology does to it's members that leave. Tom Cruise had to give up a relationship with his daughter because her mother left the church. It's terrible and I don't think God would approve. It's something spiteful that comes from people not from God!
I agree there is no right way to shun but I think the same is true of religion and gods in that not just shunning is nonsense and wrong but rather that all religion and belief in gods is nonsense and wrong.
The bible declares how a person should be "shunned." The door is open for that one to return with a repentant heart, but they are exclude from the fellowship until that requirement is met. Not sure of the scriptural reference
It's in the gospels. Something like if a member is sinning and is shown the the sin but refuses to repent then bring it before the church and then the church will have no more fellowship with the person until that are corrected. Matthew 18
@@IphieTheSlickBossHe means I Corinthians 5. There’s a lot of information in a Bible, so he just didn’t remember that particular one. It’s where St. Paul instructs believers in Jesus that they should not associate with people who claim they are Christians but who are purposely not following God’s teachings to be sexually moral. He teaches here that people tend to become like those they hang out with or live with, which would pose a dangerous risk physically and spiritually. Peace🕊
Who gives a fuck, who is shunning you. This is your life and all someone can do is educate you on why, something might not be in your interest. And should only try and take control if the relationship is there. And you are actually contradicting what you say you want to be accomplishing and what's actually occurring. But other than that, they should support you on what you choose to be doing in your life.
Love learning about the Amish! My interest started in high school. My friend and I took a roadtrip to Iowa and called it “in search of Amish”. In college I wrote a letter to an Amish community and asked to spend the summer with a family. I did not receive a response. I so appreciate your channel Lizzie !
I used to be a driver. One of my regular Amish would go over to his cousins who was shunned bc he left. The cousin would also call for rides. Then the cousin told me he was returning. He missed his family to much. After he returned i still drove him and he said something which struck me funny meaning weird.
He said he believed everyone should stay in the religion they were born into. I asked why and he said it was the only way he could make sense of staying amish.
I dont interfere but he asked what i thought og his logic.
I said ive never joined a church and if someone changed beliefs i couldnt see it as a sin.
I felt bad for him bc he genuinely didnt want ro be amish except for being with family.
After he returned we still listened to his favorite country music where he was the only amish i had the radio for since most like silence bc of their beliefs.
He told me he didnt fit in to living non amish or amish.
Since he was there for family seemingly only i felt terrible. I also wondered how many only stay bc of family.
In his case he was a member when he left and before he came back his parents said he could only see them if he returned. His cousin wasnt trying to convert him but secretly hang out before he returned.
I honestly wonder how many stay only for family. I told him once in conversation that if i was born amish i would probably stay if i couldnt see my parents.
The whole thing makes me feel sick ro my stomach when i think about his situation.
This is extremely common and also why so many stay but truthfully don't want to.
This is really said. He doesn't belong anywhere. 😢
What a terrible way to live your life, he will never be happy no matter which life he chooses to live.
You know, I think now it starts to make sense to me why shunning is a thing. Cause it’s their way to trick you back into their community. If they didn’t have this rule nobody would return😅
Though, my goodness, it’s just toxic and it’s a pure manipulation do have this rules in my opinion
@@lizzieenswellness- I hope that the guy who originally posted this comment can tell the guy he drove for that he can still have Amish religious beliefs and not be be around the Amish community.
Even for you Lizzie, just because you left the Amish community does it mean that God isn't with you anymore.
You can still be a big follower and believer in God, without being Amish.
This green earth that God has given us people, is filled with followers of Jesus Christ who are not Amish.
Are Amish orders the same thing as a denomination or a sect?
Isn't that what the Mennonites are?
What exactly is an Amish _"Order"_?
Like what is meant by the word "order."
There is "shunning" in all walks of life. We just don't call it that.
Good point
This is so true.
Yes but it's different when your entire family and entire community and everyone and everything you've ever known shuns you all at once and you lose literally EVERYTHING
@@sourgummiezSounds a lot like cancel culture to me.
“Ostracized” is another term for shunned in non church circles and cultures
I am glad you said "No, because I don't agree with it". The truth is super important.
Thank you for explaining this Lizzie, it is obvious that you and your mother love each other, and nothing will ever come between you two!
Stay strong!👍
Thank you!
@@lizzieenswellness - Thank you for explaining this Lizzie.
So it sounds like, a person is only considered Amish if they are baptized in the church.
Is that correct?
Or is that correct only among certain Amish orders, because there are different Amish orders.
If so, are there certain rules about the age where someone becomes baptized or a member of the church regardless of living in an Amish family?
How come your siblings were not baptized in the Amish church?
Was it just because they were too young for baptism in the church yet the old enough to decide they wanted to leave?
Can you shed some insight on that please?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
~Voltaire
You’re a really good daughter. I don’t agree with shunning, but you respecting your Mom in that way is the perfect way to keep your relationship with her. I have friends that we shunned, and their families won’t accept them at all. Thank you for showing that there is another way!
Thank you so much!
That I think is the problem with alot of religions. They are following and making man made rules that truly Jesus would never have excepted. I do not believe he would ever shun anyone . Just my opinion. Can't wait for your next post!
Given that Jesus helped others that society didn't approve of or sectioned away he definitely would not be for shunning. If anything his most ardent supporters were probably those shunned.
There is much said whether fact or fiction that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute yet she seems to have been an important person within his circle.
All of religion is man made rules. It’s all just brainwashing and indoctrination nonsense. Its so sad how many are abused into believing in religion and gods. It is all so silly and only all built for control.
Jesus would not shun anyone in this life, but He does warn what happens at Judgement where He will reject some as referenced here:
Matthew 7:21-23
I could tell this took a lot of courage for you to talk about. Thank you for sharing such a deeply painful aspect of your leaving the church with us! That means a great deal! ❤️
Also, when I heard you were doing a documentary with a RUclipsr named Drew, I was hoping it was Drew Binksey you were doing the collaboration with!! I have been following him and his adventures forever! He is such an amazing human being, and the absolute perfect perfect person for you to be doing this documentary with! I can't wait to see what you two come out with together! ❤️
Thank you so much! We had so much fun filming. Can't wait for you guys to see it.
@@lizzieenswellness Looking forward to it, for sure!
It’s amazing that your mom wanted to have a relationship with you. It’s much better than a toxic parent who you have to cut off to live normally
I love that shade of pink on you and you look beautiful as usual 😊 Thank you for sharing your heart and life, it's very encouraging and insightful 🌹
Thank you :)
This was a fascinating video. It can be hard for others, myself included, to conceptualize being against something but still respect and love someone dearly and respect their wishes. You are very well-spoken and intelligent. Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective.
If this is what shunning is, then ppl are being shun in all religious communities. Same behavior, different way of doing it. They don’t gather and vote on it, they simply ignore you. Been there, dealt with that! Which gave validation to why it was the correct decision for me to move on.
I learn so much from this channel, thank you
Which is why I don't follow any religion, they all preach love and acceptance but the minute you do something they disapprove of they shun you.
Only fundamentalists shun people. More accepting sects do not behave that way.
@@kenlompart9905 , my whole family are Southern Baptist. In my 20s I decided to explore and learn more about other religions. I decided to learn about Buddhism, even though it isn’t really considered as a religion, it’s more so a way of life. I meditated, that’s it. N, because of that, they told me I was a devil worshiper. No one wanted to have anything to do with me, I no longer fit in their little group. Had no idea, my own family members were so shallow in their thinking.
@@ooops8200 I'm not surprised.
I'm a plain person from a plain community. I work with and worship with the neighboring Amish communities.. 6 days a week with Amish.. Some Sundays I go to my church and some I go to Amish church.. I go to singing with them and attend all the weddings and major events like school programs and community picnics where we play ball. I frolic with them and they frolic for me at my homestead. I am very strongly tied to the community choosing to stay with my plain church but have been approached many times about joining the Amish church.. We have never had to shun before and we don't necessarily follow shunning of others. All churches are supposed maintain shunning when someone is shunned from another church. We are more interested in repenting so we will work with people to help them come to terms with their issue and get them on the right track with counseling
When the preachers are at the parking lot in a buggy, no worries. When they show up in a Black Cadillac,run out the back door.
haha
I love how open minded and understanding you are to other beliefs then your own.❤ the world needs more people like you
That’s beautiful that you guys were able to come to an agreement and understanding
This is upsetting to me as a mother and daughter, I’m so sorry, but I love how you try to honor your mother in her weakness, I pray that one day she can be even more free in her heart and soul because of Jesus. This story is an example of how being a Jesus follower is so different from being a religious person. Bless you
Oh gosh that must be so hard at like Christmastime and stuff. I love giving my mom gifts
💔 Lizzie it makes me sad that your church has shunned you. But I am so thankful that you still have a relationship with her.
And I promise if you have asked Jesus into your heart He will never ever shun you.
Thank you for another interesting and thoughtful podcast. Be blessed. Darrell
Lizzie, this is how you honor your parents. I don’t know if you believe there is a God or not. There is a chapter in the Bible about two groups of people who believe differently. One group ate meat, and the other group thought it was wrong to eat meat. In that chapter, the apostle Paul wrote that it is ok for both groups to believe based on their understanding, that each group should respect the other, and nobody should argue about it or try to convince people to believe the same as them. The very basic things most Christians and the Amish would agree about is the Ten Commandments. And one of them says to honor your parents. And what you just described is how you honor your mother. I do believe in God, and He loves you, he sent Jesus to die for you, and I think God will bless you for honoring your mother. I pray for God to bless you, too.
You are one incredible woman. Agreed, while not Amish or a member of any other religion, there is no "right way" to shun.
"What is shunning and am I shunned?"
My creative brain decided to change one letter
In the key words of the title to make the answer better:
You are stunning and I am stunned. 😂
(I did listen to the video
So I know the title has no typo,
But shunning isn't fun for anyone it seems;
I'd rather be impressed by someone than have the mess that shunning means. 😅)
Hahahaha 😂 that was a good one.
My Hutterite friend actually learned most of her “Amish knowledge” from us English. lol those Hutterites like their booze, I think maybe the other anabaptists exclude them. She left the colony, with her boyfriend, she could not handle the Bosses, & wanted to be a real RN & bless Clarence, he came along for her. But they don’t really do shunning, her English friends had to explain to her what it meant since people would ask about her accent & if she was shunned for going English. She finally admitted I was right - sometimes it’s just easier to say you’re a Swiss au pair. No American knows exactly what the Swiss accent sounds like lol, so she just started saying that 😂
You have so much courage. Continue to live your truth. Your mother respects you more than you know. More than she is permitted to share.
Thank you for addressing this subject. Sounds like you and your sisters are able to visit at any time? i.e. no certain number of visits or times? Wondering what your Mom thinks or comments on your English clothes etc. Finally, don't you miss your Mom terribly and wish you could just call her at any time? Also, has she met your son?
We visit within reason to keep respect. Mom never comments on our clothes. She respects us we respect her. It is rare I feel the need of calling her. its been 20 years and my life I so different now
Fascinating. Thank you Lizzie
I've so enjoyed your videos, thank you for sharing your life with us 💕
You are so welcome!
Years back, with family, non Amish, one was shunned for whatever reason, family gathering, we are sane age and been close since our childhood, being English, i shared a meal, sat eith and made him welcome.....today we see less if each other since he lives in Brazil, we are blood and accepting of each other and our different religions. I understand stabd shunning to a point however love should trymp it every time! Your mother awesome!!!
Lizzie, you'll bring it far. I mean, you already did but treating others with respect although you disagree in each other's way of living and keeping them in your heart makes the difference.
🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for sharing what is clearly a painful topic. Do you keep in contact with your younger siblings who also left the Amish, so that you all still get to have some of your family of origin around you outside of that community?
Yes I do!
I get your decision to respect your mom's wishes.
If I had had a good relationship with my mom and was raised Amish, I probably would have done the same.
Luckily, my family isn't Amish and doesn't believe in cutting out family regardless if we agree with each other or not.
We try to respect each individual's choices as only they can live with those choices.
Your mom is definitely a superstar. It's wonderful that she has not shut you out of her life and you can stay in contact with her. It's very obvious you love her very much.
Thank you!! I sure do ❤
❤❤❤❤ you’re amazing.
Thank you!
Thank you for explaining this Lizzie.
So it sounds like, a person is only considered Amish if they are baptized in the church.
Is that correct?
Or is that correct only among certain Amish orders, because there are different Amish orders.
If so, are there certain rules about the age where someone becomes baptized or a member of the church regardless of living in an Amish family?
How come your siblings were not baptized in the Amish church?
Was it just because they were too young for baptism in the church yet the old enough to decide they wanted to leave?
Can you shed some insight on that please?
Thanks for sharing, I am a theologian who is curious.
I'm surprised that families have a 'choice' of the level of shunning. Always thought it was all or nothing. Also interesting that the person needs to give their approval even though they know how the vote will go. I suppose it's just a last chance to repent and come back?
It's not that really give them a choice its an individual decision they make
@@lizzieenswellness Glad your Mom made a good decision ❤️
Appreciate u sharing details more in depth
Shunning in ALL types is about to come back real hard...Shunning was huge in the south when I was young. People shunned in hard times to survive we are about to see hard times.
I'm going to give you a try. I like what you said. I lived around Amish and Mennonite. And done some work for them. I do have questions.
A try for what? 😂 shoot away with your questions
Well to be honest you pass first test you answered back the first time. I ask you a question. Have subscribe to other people's channel and ask questions in comments and never hear anything back. Thank you it mean a lot.
It's all so complicated but I'm glad your mom is nice and you for the most part agree to disagree with her.
If you put something (an item) down can she pick it or vice versa. As long as she or you does not physically exchange is that included
She agreed to that when she got baptized. If she wasn’t going to live up to it she should have spoken up then. And not got baptized. Shunning is discipline to someone not keeping their word. A family wouldn’t want to block that discipline. Dont make vows you can’t keep.
And who are you to pass judgement?
@@hmvollbanane1259 😘😘😘
@@hmvollbanane1259 I’m not judging her. I’m not Amish. I didn’t agree to any of this. 🤣
If you wanted to go back, would you be allowed? If so, what would the process be like?
I admire your courage. Your mom might call you a friend. But she came through in your voice as her daughter and I can’t imagine being quote quote shunned b.s
❤❤❤❤
If you were to leave your Schwartzentruber Community.
For an old order amish community would you still get shunned? Or not because you are still amish ? What if you joined new order?
This sort of thing is the reason I don't follow any religion, they all think they can tell you how to run your life.
That’s understandable; although, I would encourage that Jesus’ teachings make life better, not worse ❣️
Peace🕊
Seems irrational to me to ask for a person's permission to shun them, given that the decision to shun you has effectively already made.
You know, I think now it starts to make sense to me why shunning is a thing. Cause it’s their way to trick you back into their community. If they didn’t have this rule nobody would return😅
Though, my goodness, it’s just toxic and it’s a pure manipulation do have this rules in my opinion
Is your mom paying a price for not strictly following the churches shunning rules? It sounds like she's just a little bit of a rebel. Maybe a bit of like mother like daughter?
🙂
Not that I know of. The church may try but she won't let them prevent her from seeing her kids
@@lizzieenswellness Yay Mom 🙂
Kind of tragic all these man made rules
Schwarzentruppen is German and it means The Black Troops. Why does the order which you left have this name? Where did this name come from, what is the origin of the name and the order? Who started the order and who gave it that name?
What's the point of the meeting if people can't disagree?
Ur not shunning ur stunning! 😜
Would someone who was shunned be allowed back if they changed their mind, or is it permanent?
If they want to come back and rejoin the church they can
Are divorces permitted?
That's wild
Interesting
I think you are a lovely young woman. I hope my text didn’t offend you.
I love to visit ohio Amish country.
Amish cancel culture
"Let's be friends?" From your mother? Like what?
I can't believe that. Its such a shame to put your family over beliefs.
I don't believe there is ever a right way to shun as it seems to fly in the face of the New Testament which tells us to 'love one another.' Jesus ate with sinners and loved them, he didn't shun them. While the Amish want to 'protect' their group from the wayward person who leaves (a form of control), it gives them the appearance of being 'holier than thou' which is hypocritical. I am so glad you have a good relationship with your mom and she loves you and wants you part of her life. She understands that blood is thicker than water and family is worth more than anything else in life. She realizes she is getting older and so are you, that you are her daughter and to cherish that.
@DTumbleweed1968 I doubt that the shunning practice has religious origins. It's simply a part of German culture to shun people as punishment (and from what I can tell it is mostly the sects with German roots in the US that practice shunning). It was simply a better way than to pursuit a blood feud back in the days and today it is still used to deal with people or families disturbing the public peace (at least in the countryside) or to strongly disassociate from people or groups whose statements or actions you strongly condemn by declaring that they are dead to you and you no longer know them.
@@hmvollbanane1259 Maybe and maybe not. I am German, born and raised in a German home, German is my first language and I have not noticed this in my culture, but I will look closely and re-examine it.
@@vancityturks7611 "du bist für mich gestorben", "ich kenne Sie nicht mehr", "um die machen wir nen weiten Bogen", "mit dem will ich nicht gesehen werden" usw.
Wir nennen es nicht explizit "shunning" aber soziales Ausgrenzen als Form einer Strafe ist, zumindest für mich, so ziemlich das typisch biedermeierischste deutsche Verhalten das es nur gibt, gerade in Bezug auf Vereine, Kirchen und Dorfgemeinschaften
The word “shun” is not a word exclusive to Amish.
The word “shun” means to
persistently avoid, ignore, or reject (someone or something) through antipathy or caution.
"he shunned fashionable society".
They just choose to use this word as their own. They hijacked the word.
How would an Amish person from the order (or whatever it is called) that you belonged to get in problems when they're not shunning you?
In scientology a member who doesn't 'disconnect' (shun) e.g. an ex-member who is vocally critical HIM- OR HERSELF will get disconnected from.
This e.g. means that a mom of a son and daughter, whose son is critical of scientology will have to disconnect from her son, or (if she doesn't) will be disconnected from by her daughter, assuming the latter wants to stay in. So this mom would need to make a Sophie's choice.
Is it similar for Amish? Or are there different Amish ways of handling this? (As you mention there - in his view - seems to be a 'right' way to shun as this guy told.)
my God forever bless you for sharing this
❤❤
The craziness of god believers astounds me. A complete contradiction to being forgiving.
Good cool ur mom doesn't make sure u dress Amish to visit
I think that shunning is just a means of control.
To try to stop those that have issues with the Amish church and it's rules from leaving.
It's cruel and it's wrong and so is the equivalent outside of the church (and other churches), ad others have mentioned in the comments.
I'm so pleased that you have contact with your mom, Lizzie.
You can't ever understand the hole left in your life when your mother dies, until it happens to you. I would presume that being shunned and not being able to contact your mother must evoke similar feelings of loss and losing contact with the rest of your family just heaps on the hurt.
When you hug your mom Lizzie, do it for all of us that can't hug our mothers anymore too. And to anyone who is reading that still has their mother in their life, give her an extra big hug when you see her and remember how lucky you are. I'd love to hug my mum, but I haven't been able to for a long, long time 😭
I feel you. My father died when I was 13. Unfortunately I can’t hug my mom. They don’t do hugs
@@lizzieenswellness I'm so sorry - I was hoping that your mom would allow some physical contact with you leaving the church - obviously she's sticking to the rules there too (shame about the accepting money too). Can you at least hold her hand, or is that not even allowed?
I'll bet that you hug your son all of the time. I've certainly hugged all my kids and still do even though they're adults now.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your father - losing parents when you're teenagers is especially difficult and you were barely a teenager.
I wish that I'd been able to have an adult relationship with my mum but she died before that could happen.
I've had to swallow down occasional feelings of jealousy when I've seen friends out with their mothers - they have no idea how lucky they are.
I don't know if you have similar feelings about friends who still have their fathers in their lives.
There is no right way of shunning! Look what scientology does to it's members that leave. Tom Cruise had to give up a relationship with his daughter because her mother left the church. It's terrible and I don't think God would approve. It's something spiteful that comes from people not from God!
Yeah its all wrong
I agree there is no right way to shun but I think the same is true of religion and gods in that not just shunning is nonsense and wrong but rather that all religion and belief in gods is nonsense and wrong.
You are not baptized into the church. That is an act of obedience that God laid out. This is a out God, not a church or man.
It’s easy, the right way of shunning is up to the community in question, so there’s no right or wrong answers, that’s my opinion.
The bible declares how a person should be "shunned." The door is open for that one to return with a repentant heart, but they are exclude from the fellowship until that requirement is met. Not sure of the scriptural reference
Are you something you saw in the bible or something someone told you was in the bible? Cz you can't even provide a reference to what you quoted.
It's in the gospels. Something like if a member is sinning and is shown the the sin but refuses to repent then bring it before the church and then the church will have no more fellowship with the person until that are corrected. Matthew 18
@@IphieTheSlickBossHe means I Corinthians 5. There’s a lot of information in a Bible, so he just didn’t remember that particular one. It’s where St. Paul instructs believers in Jesus that they should not associate with people who claim they are Christians but who are purposely not following God’s teachings to be sexually moral. He teaches here that people tend to become like those they hang out with or live with, which would pose a dangerous risk physically and spiritually.
Peace🕊
Do the Amish pleasure themselves? Or is it verboten?
Who gives a fuck, who is shunning you. This is your life and all someone can do is educate you on why, something might not be in your interest. And should only try and take control if the relationship is there. And you are actually contradicting what you say you want to be accomplishing and what's actually occurring. But other than that, they should support you on what you choose to be doing in your life.