Great video, though there are some misinformation. The clips at 2:25, and 2:38 are not using Euphoria rather it's just regular animations, hence why Niko is appearing to run into the wall or appear sluggish when turning. It's just slightly poor implementation of a character controller locomotion. At 1:59 for example, only the NPC character is being affected by Euphoria while Niko is using regular animation. The only time you can experience walking around purely in the Euphoria state is when you are drunk in GTAIV. All of the games mentioned in this video still constantly switch between animation state and Euphoria state. And so it's only when something drastic happens such as running into an NPC, or jumping out of a car, or shooting someone, where Euphoria is actually being used. During 1:26 you can see the people being run over going from an animation state to Euphoria state. At 4:21 you can see the cop going from Euphoria state to wounded animations. I'd say that Red Dead Redemption 2 has the cleanest transitions from animation state to Euphoria state yet, which is probably why it's pretty difficult to pinpoint when the characters are using Euphoria or not. Even GTAV has Euphoria but it uses a very simplified version of it that doesn't allow NPC's to stand upright and balance while being affected by Euphoria. This is most likely because the game was released on PS3 and Xbox360 and as far as I know Euphoria is very performance heavy, and so it had to be simplified to allow the game to run smoothly will the new graphics and scope. But GTAIV still has my favorite implementation of Euphoria. It's probably the only game where simply touching an NPC will make them use dynamic motion synthesis.
Actually it is not that performance heavy, you can actually install Euphoria mods from PC to PS3 and it does not affect the performance at all. I think it was more like gameplay/game design decision since they wanted it to be more arcadey, because for lot of people GTA IV had too much realism into it.
@@MiraculousTalesChannel I don't have reliable stats for my statement, but judging from experience, running over more than 5-6 pedestrians at the same time in GTAIV will usually make the fps drop significantly when playing on PS3. But you might also be right with that rockstar wanted the Euphoria physics to look less realistic (for whatever reason?).
@@Jabbathefrukt on Xbox its fine though if my memory serves me right. EDIT; let's not forget that this euphoria implementation was the first Rockstar conducted on an open world game. Maybe their methods weren't developed enough at that time. With Max Payne 3 and Red Dead Redemption you can see far better animation blending and active ragdolls. (red dead also exaggerated the euphoria ragdolls a little I think to emulate cheesy deaths in western movies)
@@Jabbathefrukt I think they made it less realistic on purpose for gameplay reasons. In GTA4 it could happen the the player was stuck in the 'stagger' behavior for multiple seconds depending on the situation. (Getting bumped by a car while being on a slightly slanted street). It didn't look realistic to have Niko do those tiny steps and also took control from the player for way longer than necessary. I assume adjusting the variables to stop this kind of behavior also affected Euphoras behavior under other circumstances. Looking at the files it's very obvious that Rockstar can't change the actual underlying system for whatever reason and is only adjusting variables like constraints, weight and behavior time limits. So obviously they are quite limited in what they can do to improve Euphoria without the help (or approval) of NaturalMotion.
Gta 4's Euphoria physics is much more complex, dynamic, entertaining and realistic than Gta 5's Euphoria physics. That's why messing with NPCs and jumping from vehicles going at full speed is much better in Gta 4. Physics has been downgraded a lot in Gta 5. Apart from this, damaging/destroying vehicles is also more realistic and fun in Gta 4. In Gta 5, vehicles are almost not deformed. Too bad..
There's another reason that not more developers use it, which is that Euphoria is notoriously difficult to work with. During QA testing for Force Unleashed, they had an entire bug category that was just listed as "EUPHORIA."
I think that stems from how euphoria is implemented... It's not a software package like havok! You NEED natural motion devs to implement the game into the code base and coach your company in how to use euphoria! It also doesn't help that euphoria is a very unorthodox tool as well. It is a shame!
@@Cheecken Even with their coaching, it seems like it's still not entirely easy to use. But it really is a shame. I realize that not a lot of people notice the changes it brings, but for those of us who DO notice, it's night and day.
... and still they managed to create the greatest Starwars game ever made, that I love, even though I really f* hate Starwars. I played that game for that engine and that engine only.
@@TheEloquentEye If that was the "greatest Star Wars game ever made" then you clearly haven't played a lot of them. That you by your own admission hate Star Wars doesn't mean your opinion is more valuable on the subject. Quite the opposite, actually.
@@LazzyVamples Massive Star Wars fan here, force unleashed is the best force powers simulator hand down, and probably my favorite out of all the Star Wars games I’ve played.
come to think of it..just like Rockstar made Table Tennis so raw..they couldve bought Backbreaker & turned it into like a prison football game or somethin'
Games without this engine feel hollow and outdated to me. It's a shame it's so difficult to implement into games. Someone who worked on the software provided more information: Ex Natural motion intern here! (Also my housemate and half my drinking buddies work there) The engine needs integration with a games code base, which is a lot of work. Especially if you are not using an off the shelf game engine. The Euphoria behaviours are incredibly complex simulations and need a very competent mathematician to create. This means a lot of the work to create them has to be done by NM. This inter company cooperation scares away corporate type developers who are terrified of such things. (A lot of developers are afraid of middleware as they see it as cancerous on the code base) It should be noted that a lot of companies do have their own similar animation systems. I currently have friends at EA tech working on physics based animation. Even at Frontier there was a cheap knockoff in production for a while. And yes, it is quite expensive. Also Natural motion is focusing more on free-to-play games now, with the animation tech taking more of a back seat.
A big part alot of gamers have weak attention spans and just want shinny graphics , for me it's nice to look at once then after that I'm like , where the interactivity , physics , story if they don't have a good enough standard of that I skip those like Cyperjunk 2077
If the ps5 has a better CPU... physics have the chance to move forward towards greater lengths, right? The people that i believe could take advantage of such immersion and making it more fun out of it are probably insomniac games... they're daring and capable developers.
I was an Ex Natural Motion intern too, but nowadays GPUs DONT work with it for the database info and coding. Besides with new Indie Games right on the corner they think is pointless. You Have to push extra hard making it NOT viable in new standards. I would bet on engine migration.
Well unfortunately many games can’t use this as it would be too much for Xbox one and ps4 to handle… and it seems ppl cry that new games only come out for next gen… it’s a 9 year old console! Upgrade and stop crying to devs! It’s not their fault y’all scums and don’t work
@@smackdadickus Not as far as I am aware. It is a relatively new game, a zombie slasher by the Dead Island developers. I can really recommend the game it's quite fun, especially in co op!
Great video! I think dynamic motion should be an industry standard in video games, or at least in shooters and sport games. One of the reasons I didn't get bored of Red Dead Online after hundreds of hours is that the shooting feels great thanks to euphoria. You feel the impact of the bullets. It is a shame that the remastered GTA games use UE 4 and not RAGE, would have been awesome to see euphoria implemented in those titles.
Sadly the gta remastered releases have too many other problems! But it would have been interesting to see how different the old titles would have been with euphoria
There is just no way lol!! I was just making a video comparing RDR2's Euphoria to other games and I see your video in my recommended. Thanks for the content as always!
It's sad that apparently there is no interest in this kind of technology anymore. At this point Rockstar Games are the only ones who still release games using Euphoria and even the company that developed it stopped supporting it like 5 years ago and was then bought by Zynga. Though there might be hope for further development in Rockstars games since Zynga was recently bought up by Take Two, the parent company of Rockstar Games. I think Euphoria itself is quite outdated since the AI driven systems today could probably produce way better results. The fact that Rockstar kept changing variables and behaviors of Euphoria for every game they released using it makes me believe that they have a big interest in motion synthesis and would probably develop a better system that'll be directly implemented into the RAGE engine. (I am aware that Euphoria is part of RAGEs source code, but looking at the game files they haven't modified the underlying system and only changed variables, making me believe that they can't change much about the Euphoria system itself. Not sure if that's a software limitation or rather a legal one since technically Euphoria is still proprietary software owned by NaturalMotion)
Yeah same. I think the physics and gravity in those two games adapt perfectly. In gta 4 so many things are close to real life; -Falling down stairs -hit by a vehicle -falling -jumping out of a vehicle They are the best things euphoria put to use in the game imo. However bullet impacts could be more realistic, i think npc’s absorb too many bullets, the pistol shots make sense and are realistic, but higher caliber like the ak47 still makes them stay upright and stumble around. Realistically the first round to the chest should make them full over with all of that force. Rdr2 achieved some great things with euphoria as well. The gravity and physics are very realistic in many cases; -free falling -animal physics, especially horses -fist fights, where each punch smoothly transitions the player/npc in and out of the euphoria mode. -rolling -crashing/impacts But again, the shooting physics, the most crucial one didnt seem near perfect. Rdr2 did, however, get the shooting physics a bit better, since each gun and it’s caliber has different force impacts to the npc’s. Although the reactions don’t feel as dynamic as their previous games. Like the weird arm swaying after a headshot.
imo i think max payne 3 has the best euphoria out of all of em i personally don't really give a damn about realistic ragdolls in a rockstar game if the ragdolls were genuinely realistic then people would just drop down and hold their wounds there's not much stumbling involved
Natural Motion stopped really developing it further and stopped selling licenses. Rockstar and LucasArts were the only licensees I think that held onto it and had plans for it, and one of those companies is dead.
@@LaloSalamancaGaming69 Yeah, it had a lot of potential and it sucks to see its developers not letting more people take advantage of it since they themselves barely do anything with it. At least it’s built into rockstars tech
Interesting video about interesting topic I actually don't know what to comment on this video but your channel is so underrated so I leave a comment so the algorithm show this video to other's recommendation
I really miss the era of physics. I remember being blown away by Half Life 2 being able to stack and throw around pretty much anything that wasn’t bolted down, Halo 3’s physics objects made levels feel alive as explosions could quickly change the layout of an area due to physics objects, The biggest impact for me which is funny cause technically it’s the smallest was I finally got to play Mirror’s Edge on PC for the first time only a couple of years ago and can’t stress enough just how much physx blew me away. Sure the helicopter that chases you is scripted but seeing the guns tear apart the tarps on the scaffolding is insane! Or see the banners in the mall fall apart as enemies try and shoot you. It’s just cloth yet it adds so much life to game. I’m sad that most devs these days have taken a “look, don’t touch” approach and I don’t really care for rtx
Well its about CPUs, overwise consoles wouldn´t run the game decently. Try to test GTA V CPU Usage/Frame rates with physics mods then without physics mods
We need another backbreaker!!! ever since 2014 when zynga bought natural motion it hasn't been the same, they have pretty much discontinued all of there own work, like endorphin and backbreaker etc. they have been focusing more on mobile titles like CSR racing and Dawn of titans. Now i get that it would be very hard to bring backbreaker back and make it popular, but it would be worth a try.
Yup! However I do see some games who have slightly similar technologies. The closest to Euphoria most likely is Exanima, it might even be more sophisticated than Euphoria to an extent as it is completely physics driven, while Euphoria made use of a gigantic animation library. Exanimas movement looked very wonky for a long time, but nowadays it looks quite good!
It does! It is essentially the same implementation that you can observe in gta 4 and red dead redemption. If you compare the responses side by side you will be easily made aware of that fact!
I feel like the importance of animations in video games is something that very rarely gets the attention it deserves and I'd personally like to see a greater emphasis on improvement in this area across the industry as a whole. I've always been a big fan of physics based and dynamic animations in video games since the introduction of ragdolls (though very early examples did look pretty goofy a lot of the time). I've occasionally heard people express a preference for traditional animations (in 3D games) in their review/retrospective look at a game, but I disagree in many instances (particularly when it comes to first/third person shooters). There are certain situations where traditional animations just look awful and totally break my immersion. Death animations on stairs, at the edge of ledges or in close proximity to walls or other solid objects are the worst offenders. There's nothing worse than seeing a dead enemy sticking out of a staircase because the game doesn't even account for the slope, or an enemy partially on a ledge just laid flat like a piece of cardboard with half or more of their mass just jutting out supported by nothing but thin air. Another scenario is when an enemy falls, hits the ground and then goes through a traditional death animation like they've been shot. It just looks horrible! Also, most games don't have separate animations to account for the direction of an attack, don't take impacts with walls/objects into account and use either a single death animation per enemy type or a very limited number of them, so you see the same animations over and over again. Traditional/canned animation could be put to good effect if games used a greater variety of them and they were more context sensitive to address some of the scenarios above, but as I mentioned earlier, it's an area that often doesn't receive much attention. I remember how excited I was when I saw early demos of Euphoria in action, such as the cancelled Indiana Jones game. In fact there were a number of presentations at that time with a heavy focus on physics within games and I thought "This is the future!". I've been pretty disappointed over the years, because aside from the handful of games you've focussed on here, there seems to have been little emphasis on dynamic animations and in game physics across the games industry as a whole. Instead there has been a large focus on increased resolution. Sure, increased resolution is nice and it makes sense seeing how TVs have become larger, but there are a large number of things I'd prefer to see improved before worrying about upping the resolution. The two genres I really would like to see benefit from dynamic animations and/or implementation of physics are fighting and wrestling games. Both of these genres are extremely stale in my opinion. The last big advancement I can think of in the fighting game genre was the introduction of 3D with Virtua Fighter. Innovation within the wrestling genre died when Yuke's got their hands on the exclusive rights to the WWF/WWE license because there was nobody to compete with them. Yes, some of the wrestling games from the mid '90s to the early '00s were bad, but it was at least interesting because we got to see different takes from different dev teams and entirely new game engines that felt distinctly different from one another rather than yearly releases of essentially the same game with incremental changes and the occasional new gameplay mechanic tacked on.
One thing to note is that DMA Design, creators of the GTA franchise, has worked with a small company called Psygnosis in developing Lemmings (by Mike Dailly), who had been bought by Sony and has published titles like Toy Story for SNES, and also developed WipEout as they were being acquired by Sony. I know that has nothing to do with this topic, but it was very cool to know
These physics are one of the factors that makes the difference in actually controlling a character (like in GTA, RDR) or just pushing a virtual entity box (think most Ubisoft or open world games)
I remember how the first gta 5 trailer had euphoria like gta 4. I was so disappointed when I played it for the first time because of the changed engine
@@NovaBoi7 ruclips.net/video/R9ATjSJ10vE/видео.html You think PS3 and X360 could run GTA V with better physics? They would have lower the players count in multiplayer to 8, smaller map, remove the 3-players mechanics and other things
@@NovaBoi7 Well it could have better physics, but the PS3 and X360 would have to run the game at 10fps to 15fps The CPU usage would be increased by physics mods. You clearly don´t understand how physics works at all,
I did play that game! But I swiftly refunded it. Beyond the interesting approach to gore and the at times believable animations I think that the game needs way more time in the oven.
It's so frustrating how incredible AAA games could be on a technical level in terms of physics and ai, but seem to only push shallow graphical elements like texture size and resolution
There are games that come close! One game I love the ragdolls in is Dying Light (the first game). The ragdolls are constricted by the skeletal system of the NPCs and they seemlessly switch from ragdolling to animation and back to ragdolling. The ragdolls also seem to be less expensive when compared to euphoria. They might now be be pinnacle of realism and don't employ dynamic motion synthesis, but they are really fucking good nonetheless!
god its so nice seeing backbreaker mentioned in a video, this and blitz the league 2 will always be my favorite football games, I still hope for a perfect synthesis of the two to one day come out.
Glad to be of service ;) I am not a big american football fan, but I had TONNES of fun with Backbreaker, especially Backbreaker Vengeance! To me those games are far superior to the Madden franchise, at least technically speaking.
@@Cheecken There was a Backbreaker mobile game as well, which I played a ton of when I was a kid. It was just the tackle alley minigame from the first game, essentially. The console versions may not have done well critically or in sales, but mobile version sold extremely well being just a 99 cent mobile game (before F2P games dominated the market). I think the only reason they made Backbreaker Vengeance was because the mobile game did so well. I'm not sure how Vengeance plays on XBLA, but on mobile it was pretty much just more Backbreaker Tackle Alley except you play the offense.
Отсутствие Эйфории в играх заставило меня попытаться создать что-то похожее и мне почему-то кажется, будь у меня целая студия из опытных людей, я создал бы лучше эйфории, потому что я теперь понимаю, как это можно реализовать и лучше чем в ГТА4, это конечно громкое заявление, но все равно его увидит мало людей :D
i fucking hate ea sports games but backbreaker looks so awesome cause it isnt just press button and do it, you press button and hope to god they lunge correctly and smack a dude and if it does it looks so entertaining
I loved the tech behind the game, but figured out very quickly that if you dont have a single clue about American Football, the game is like a giant mystery to you lol. Hope you have fun if you ever try it out!
@Cheecken dude thank you for replying after the video released so long ago thats actually really awesome im an american but i still dont like our football all that much it really just boils down to push to the objective a little farther every time so that its significant enough for you to keep playing and try not to get absolutely rocked by some 7 foot 250 pound brick heading at you at like 20 miles an hour anyways good shit dawg:))
@@RedMenace0 Many thanks for the explanation! Maybe I will boot up my PS3 again and play more Backbreaker 😁 Thanks for watching bro, makes me happy to see people enjoy my videos!
Physics is what makes a game fun..thats one thing i miss post ps3 era games ..imagine a good sports game even with good physics,but they want these competitive games to be as stiff and predictable as possible just so a baby esports player doesn't cry
Awesome video. Came here after remembering that I used to play around with the engine around 10 years ago and wanted to see what was going on with it these days. It's sad that it's business model relies in exclusivity, but at the same time I don't think it would make for necessarily better games across the board. Every game made by Rockstar features sluggish controls and floaty gunplay and it's partly because their physics engine is not really either realistic or good gameplay-wise. Proof of this is that the physics engine has been toned down by Rockstar by every new release since GTA 4. I'd love to see these features tackled by developers that are not shackled to ancient game-design philosofies like Rockstar is, though. I believe that every shooter could benefit at least a little bit by having characters respond somewhat realistically to being shot as they tend to do in games by Rockstar.
Glad you like it! I have a soft spot for Euphoria, but I do agree that it came in conflict with basic gameplay at many points. The best example for Euphoria just fucking up completely (or depending on how you look at it working as intended) is when your character starts stumbling and uncontrollably moves in a direction you don't want them to move. Rockstar really outdid themselves when it comes to the implementation of Euphoria in Max Payne 3. To this day Max Payne 3 is the most entertaining third person shooter out there, specifically because of its animation system! As I stated in the video, seeing Max slam into a wall or get caught in a fence is really entertaining and it forces you to think a bit more about where to shoot-dodge to. Dynamic Motion Synthesis is really cool and I think that some indie games came really close in developing similar technologies, most notably Exanima which has its Gameplay cleverly built around physics based animations. I wished Natural Motion would sell their solution as a software package, but let's be real, that just won't happen! It will be hard for other studios to replicate such technologies, especially since many of them do not have extensive animation libraries like Rockstar.
@@Cheecken I agree! I didn't like Max Payne 3 too much (actually pre-ordered it back in the day), but that's not because of the physics. Max was brilliant to control and throw around and that was the best part of the game. My problem with the game is that it actually felt really incoherent to have a physics based character controller while having hitscan weapons (the gunshots hit the crosshair regardless of where the gun is actually pointing). That coupled with how spongy the enemies feel unless you hit them in the head made for really not too much fun gameplay, and that's a problem across every game since GTA IV.
Doesn't Left4Dead use euphoria? If not then they must have their own custom natural motion engine because that had pretty amazing and fluid feeling animations.
@@RamblyBear There was a video from Crowbcat just a few days ago about this. In Left 4 Dead they actually used a clever system that blends the physics engine (Havok) with tons of premade animations. It was really very well made and accounts for every possibility and angle to the point where it's possible to be fooled thinking there's more going on but it's really just animations.
Thank you for this video, I wanted to learn more after I played Star Wars The Force Unleashed. This game made me fall in love with Euphoria, the enemies reactions when you use the Force to push, grab or throw them in the air are fantastic! They can even grab some ledges when you make them fly! I've also played RDR, when John is drunk his movements are amazing. This system has so much potential, it's a shame developers can't use it. Today even Sony's or Ubisoft's average high budget games still have weird ragdoll animations.
Yeah it's weird. All the way until the end of the 2000s, it seemed that game developement, especially in regards to shooters and sports games, was about more realism, natural and life like looks and gameplay. And then it just stopped and became more of a niche concept.
Crazy how something so unbelivably good is so left behind right now due to many reasons i may not be able to comprehend just yet, like the licensing part, and how only few companies are advancing on it. Games nowadays really and mostly rely on graphics and so little of them care about their game's physics as part of their selling points. Its cool we re advancing on graphics, but how can one thing stop these developers from ever developing an actual world-like physics engine and apply it into their game. GTA IV has flaws in its physics, for example, the way the characters move like how slow they turn around as mentioned, but the pain, the reactions to environments and surroundings, and the way they fall all limpsy and weak are so astonishing to even someone who cant code and program stuff. I understand its complex stuff but i cant see games the same way again once i saw those euphoria engines do their job, it really felt like its ahead of its time. Kind of tragic really, i really wish to see more physics engines being worked on as time progresses, because thats what i think seperates a good game from a mediocre one in certain aspects (not entirely all aspects). I may not be happy until i see another game with a good physics engine like RDR2 and GTA IV
I remember using endorphin by naturalmotion as a kid and being so sad when they deleted it completely. that tool would be so useful for exporting bvh animations of simulated characters
@@Cheecken they are files used for skeletal animation like mocap data. At the time if you had the license (~400$ if I remember correctly) you could make an animation with physics using euphoria, export it, and use it in a 3D animation.
Thank you. I don’t understand much if anything of what you are saying but I also didn’t know how to play EA Skate until I started trying. Maybe start trying to understand how games are made I will learn a thing or two. (Edit was because of a minor typo that irritated me).
Now, Take-Two (Rockstar Games' parent company) owns Euphoria. They've bought Zynga recently, and Zynga owned/owns NaturalMotion thus Euphoria. I'm wondering if that will do anything, maybe the Euphoria engine will get somehow better?
@@jxp2222 The downside is they're gonna make it a very limited proprietary where only games that T2 owned will have the access over it. Look up what had happened to RenderWare, it was widely used by hundreds of game developers during its heyday but as soon as EA bought Criterion Games off of Canon, EA just decided to gradually cut off other studios from receiving technical support and in turns, studios also began moving to different game engines.
es como todo, euphoria puede ser comparable con el motor de fisicas de cryengine en cuanto a rendimiento, pues si bien consume poco el hacer 40 calculos de fisicas para un solo objeto, si empiezas a calcular 20 personajes, es el equivalente a hacer caer una torre de 800 objetos en cryengine, esto siendo generoso, pues en un juego actual hay mas de 40 huesos, y la cantidad de huesos del rig hay que multiplicarlo por 3, ya que se le añaden los virtual muscles y el sistema nervioso, por lo que 20 personajes equivaldrian a 6000 objetos en cryengine, la CPU trabaja en serie, y ese es una de los problemas de euphoria, no puede usarse en la GPU debido a que la GPU está diseñada para el procesamiento en paralelo, por lo que no podria retraer un musculo y que este afecte a los musculos adyacentes, además de que usaban una inteligencia artificial por lo que tenia que invertirse un dineral en entrenar la inteligencia artificial, hoy en día la cosa podria ser distinta, los procesadores son mucho mas potentes, pero naturalmotion solo... se rindió :(
Van de la mano, Euforia y Cryengine tengo entendido usan un código muy similar. El problema es el rendimiento que tolera el CPU. Con el tiempo no lee los códigos como antes y tendrás que actualizar de forma exagerada. Causando problemas gigantes. Cosa que puede tener problemas con el calentamiento del chipset. Tendrás que acortar muchísimos programas y pasarás a perder rendimiento por un motor totalmente desactualizado.
Además, muchas GPU no toleran procesamientos en paralelo. Ten en cuenta eso. Toman datos basados en código abierto. Cosa muy confusa para las GPUs nuevas. Especialmente si tienen procesadores nuevos donde sólo leen RAMAS de código específico. El Natural Motion podría volver si las GPUs no tuvieran bases de datos malas. Créeme, el CryEngine es donde entra mal con las GPUs nuevas. El Euphoria podría ser, pero pide mucho. Así que no me sorprendo porque no se usan para Nuevos Juegos. El problema es que los jugadores viejos se quedaron estancados con las físicas de antes.
May i ask how would remedys's northlight engine compare to euphoria in terms of ragdoll physics and animations in games like control and Alan wake 2 ? . and i don't mean to sound primitive but in my opinion they seem to pale in comparison to the likes of max payne 3 for example
I sadly don't have any input to give on that matter, I played control a bit but I dont have much experience with remedy's engine. I think for control at least a more regular animation blending system was used 🤔
@@Cheecken Thanks for the reply . but please what other third person shooters like max payne 3 would you say has euphoria level ragdolls and animations that you have played ?
A live ragdoll still uses a playercontroller, they aren't different, they just swap between the player controller and the advanced ragdoll system when they need to, Rockstar seem to intentionally make their controllers a little sluggish, probably to help with their advanced animation systems. Also, you listed several games to use it but excluded games like GTA 5, you may not have noticed because they tweaked it so much, but yes GTA 5 also used euphoria.
I believe Unreal Engine teased something similar a few years ago. As for Euphoria, I always thought Rockstar had exclusivity on its use since they were the only ones I saw using it. I remember the first time the Euphoria engine tech demo appeared almost 20 years ago. It's unfortunate that physics in gaming has been neglected, as basic interactions like pushing objects (such as chairs or boxes) in some games are not even possible anymore. While playing Control, I noticed that almost everything is interactive and can be moved, destroyed, or pushed around. This made me realize that since Crysis (2007), we haven't seen much more evolution or groundbreaking physics in games. The last tease for a big physics game was in the Crackdown 3 E3 demo, which they abandoned and released a very mild implementation compared to what they promised. Nowadays, the buzzword is ray tracing, a few years ago it was hair simulation. Yet in most games, if you shoot a lamp, it will magically continue emitting light. Maybe in another 20 years of tech evolution 😊 (edit: english is hard man)
Dude, this is how gaming is these days. Physics don't matter anymore, and developers are just lazy. All they care about is using fancy words like "ray tracing" to sell their games.
So years ago after GTA 4 came out but before RDR2 came out I downloaded something to my computer. It was like a trial to be able to use a game engine. I thought it was the RAGE engine but after a google search it seems nobody outside of rockstar games has ever used it. So I am guessing it was Euphorbia that I got to test out.
My favorite game with the euphoria engine would have had to be the Star Wars Forced Unleashed title, and also its sequel if not slightly lacking in the story department i can still toss troopers around like a madman
I love the game, however not the same Forced Unleashed as the one you played! I only played the PS2 version which does not have the more sophisticated active ragdolls, however it is a wonderful game too. Someday soon I will check out the newer gen version of The Force Unleashed and I recommend you check out the PS2 version too. They are in quite a few respects very different games, but both of them are great in their own right!
It's relatively simple as euphoria is hard coded into the RAGE engine! Gta 5 under the hood features the same tech as gta 4 or even red dead redemption, they essentially just adjusted some parameters that control how much the euphoria animation system kicks in and how dynamic it should be. For gta 5 it was toned down drastically, as to why I don't know, I presume it could have been an optimisation measure. But yeah I assume the mod is just a change in a script somewhere and I assume it isn't that big either :)
If I did my research correctly. Zynga bought Naturalmotion. The team that made Euphoria's Physics Engine. Now Take-Two acquired Zynga. Does that mean that Rockstar has full control of the Euphoria Physics Engine? I wonder if GTA VI will have a more dynamic physics engine than RDR2 and GTA V.
It makes me so sad that this system didn't become the next Havok engine. Besides that Force Unleashed game, I don't recall anything outside of the Rockstar games that use it. And even so, the Euphoria physics got nerfed to hell and back for GTA5. It's just not nearly as fun as GTA4 or MP3. At least RDR2 was better in that regard
I don't think you understand what euphoria or havok is at all ngl, I'm a dev and can tell you that both are completely and wild unrelated to each other.
After doing a bit of digging, the reason why they don't even bother anymore because their mobile games ended up making them sooooo much more money, and most game developers interested in the technology don't have the time or money for it so they could not find customers. In the late ps3 and xbox 360 era, they had animation middle ware called morphine but soon got outdated as more engines integrated the features they had.
I cant believe this isn't industry standard by now. Modern games still release with ragdoll effects from over 10 years ago and its really disappointing.
GTA 5 also utilizes Euphoria, but to a very diminished extend. The implementation is nowhere near as impressive as it is in Max Payne 3, Backbreaker or GTA 4. This is why the game did not appear in this video!
@@Cheecken ah ok yeah of gta 6 comes out and if it ends up having good Mechanics then I think you should cover and I do believe gta 5 is just good graphicaly and realistic but you are correct I do wish max Payne 3 mechanics existed but I think they didn’t have use for them they could of done those for micheal since he can do bullet time but thank you for replying that’s very understandable now
Inaccessible or not, this is truly revolutionary. I can't even begin to imagine how you could script something like this. I am an amateur programmer though.
As a kid, my excitement for new games came from the possibility of improved physics. Not graphics, map, story, or anything else. I was super excited for GTA V because I was expecting the physics from IV to blown out of the water. That was disappointing.
Have to say Euphoria was a hell of an engine. But with nowadays requirements it gets sLOW on todays standards. Besides, you'll get no new buyers with the demand of NEW GAMES. And GRAPHICS can be a bummer OVER TIME.
My guess is that it's not available as a middleware because it needs to be implemented on top of your game's character controller and whatever physics engine you're using. There are similar solutions to Unity/Unreal though because it's mainly running on top of their own components as I mentioned and technically they blend between the physics calculations and the animations. There are also combined techniques which tying motion matching/physics/etc. together...
Great video, though there are some misinformation. The clips at 2:25, and 2:38 are not using Euphoria rather it's just regular animations, hence why Niko is appearing to run into the wall or appear sluggish when turning. It's just slightly poor implementation of a character controller locomotion. At 1:59 for example, only the NPC character is being affected by Euphoria while Niko is using regular animation. The only time you can experience walking around purely in the Euphoria state is when you are drunk in GTAIV.
All of the games mentioned in this video still constantly switch between animation state and Euphoria state. And so it's only when something drastic happens such as running into an NPC, or jumping out of a car, or shooting someone, where Euphoria is actually being used. During 1:26 you can see the people being run over going from an animation state to Euphoria state. At 4:21 you can see the cop going from Euphoria state to wounded animations.
I'd say that Red Dead Redemption 2 has the cleanest transitions from animation state to Euphoria state yet, which is probably why it's pretty difficult to pinpoint when the characters are using Euphoria or not. Even GTAV has Euphoria but it uses a very simplified version of it that doesn't allow NPC's to stand upright and balance while being affected by Euphoria. This is most likely because the game was released on PS3 and Xbox360 and as far as I know Euphoria is very performance heavy, and so it had to be simplified to allow the game to run smoothly will the new graphics and scope.
But GTAIV still has my favorite implementation of Euphoria. It's probably the only game where simply touching an NPC will make them use dynamic motion synthesis.
Thanks for pointing this out! Pinned for everyone else to see :)
Actually it is not that performance heavy, you can actually install Euphoria mods from PC to PS3 and it does not affect the performance at all. I think it was more like gameplay/game design decision since they wanted it to be more arcadey, because for lot of people GTA IV had too much realism into it.
@@MiraculousTalesChannel
I don't have reliable stats for my statement, but judging from experience, running over more than 5-6 pedestrians at the same time in GTAIV will usually make the fps drop significantly when playing on PS3.
But you might also be right with that rockstar wanted the Euphoria physics to look less realistic (for whatever reason?).
@@Jabbathefrukt on Xbox its fine though if my memory serves me right.
EDIT; let's not forget that this euphoria implementation was the first Rockstar conducted on an open world game. Maybe their methods weren't developed enough at that time. With Max Payne 3 and Red Dead Redemption you can see far better animation blending and active ragdolls. (red dead also exaggerated the euphoria ragdolls a little I think to emulate cheesy deaths in western movies)
@@Jabbathefrukt I think they made it less realistic on purpose for gameplay reasons. In GTA4 it could happen the the player was stuck in the 'stagger' behavior for multiple seconds depending on the situation. (Getting bumped by a car while being on a slightly slanted street).
It didn't look realistic to have Niko do those tiny steps and also took control from the player for way longer than necessary.
I assume adjusting the variables to stop this kind of behavior also affected Euphoras behavior under other circumstances.
Looking at the files it's very obvious that Rockstar can't change the actual underlying system for whatever reason and is only adjusting variables like constraints, weight and behavior time limits. So obviously they are quite limited in what they can do to improve Euphoria without the help (or approval) of NaturalMotion.
Euphoria is a big part of what makes gta and rdr so fun, it's just so fun to screw around with.
The downgrade of GTA V euphoria hurts my heart to this day
@@RicardoMontania same
Bro you forgot Max Payne 3
@@notsotastysandwich8205 Oh yeah I did, it was great in that too maybe even better actually.
@@RicardoMontania nah gta v euphoria ragdoll still good for me. Better than fucking watch dogs, cp2077, tw3, ass creed, cry far....
This Engine is ripe for a skateboarding game, Bails would be almost as much fun as a make.
That is a great idea
the skate series is exactly that
It's amazing how such a complex system that needs hundreds of different animations in order to function properly can run on a smart phone.
I played Clumsy Ninja a lot when I was little, but because I was like 7 I never really appreciated the quality of physics
I love GTA IV physics . GTA V is good enough for me, the only thing its the car damage that is super crappy
Gta 4's Euphoria physics is much more complex, dynamic, entertaining and realistic than Gta 5's Euphoria physics.
That's why messing with NPCs and jumping from vehicles going at full speed is much better in Gta 4.
Physics has been downgraded a lot in Gta 5.
Apart from this, damaging/destroying vehicles is also more realistic and fun in Gta 4.
In Gta 5, vehicles are almost not deformed. Too bad..
GTA 4 have the best Physic what i see in my life
pretty sure you are completely wrong with the movement and some other stuff.
those are not tied to physics at all.
There's another reason that not more developers use it, which is that Euphoria is notoriously difficult to work with. During QA testing for Force Unleashed, they had an entire bug category that was just listed as "EUPHORIA."
I think that stems from how euphoria is implemented... It's not a software package like havok! You NEED natural motion devs to implement the game into the code base and coach your company in how to use euphoria! It also doesn't help that euphoria is a very unorthodox tool as well. It is a shame!
@@Cheecken Even with their coaching, it seems like it's still not entirely easy to use. But it really is a shame. I realize that not a lot of people notice the changes it brings, but for those of us who DO notice, it's night and day.
... and still they managed to create the greatest Starwars game ever made, that I love, even though I really f* hate Starwars. I played that game for that engine and that engine only.
@@TheEloquentEye If that was the "greatest Star Wars game ever made" then you clearly haven't played a lot of them. That you by your own admission hate Star Wars doesn't mean your opinion is more valuable on the subject. Quite the opposite, actually.
@@LazzyVamples Massive Star Wars fan here, force unleashed is the best force powers simulator hand down, and probably my favorite out of all the Star Wars games I’ve played.
Rockstar investing in Euphoria so early in its lifetime is one of the best moves they've ever made
come to think of it..just like Rockstar made Table Tennis so raw..they couldve bought Backbreaker & turned it into like a prison football game or somethin'
@@CCP-pb5ssrockstars version of Blitz would be 🔥
Games without this engine feel hollow and outdated to me. It's a shame it's so difficult to implement into games. Someone who worked on the software provided more information:
Ex Natural motion intern here! (Also my housemate and half my drinking buddies work there)
The engine needs integration with a games code base, which is a lot of work. Especially if you are not using an off the shelf game engine.
The Euphoria behaviours are incredibly complex simulations and need a very competent mathematician to create. This means a lot of the work to create them has to be done by NM. This inter company cooperation scares away corporate type developers who are terrified of such things. (A lot of developers are afraid of middleware as they see it as cancerous on the code base)
It should be noted that a lot of companies do have their own similar animation systems. I currently have friends at EA tech working on physics based animation. Even at Frontier there was a cheap knockoff in production for a while.
And yes, it is quite expensive. Also Natural motion is focusing more on free-to-play games now, with the animation tech taking more of a back seat.
Can you imagine if every single game used Unreal Engine? We would probably never have RAGE.
A big part alot of gamers have weak attention spans and just want shinny graphics , for me it's nice to look at once then after that I'm like , where the interactivity , physics , story if they don't have a good enough standard of that I skip those like Cyperjunk 2077
If the ps5 has a better CPU... physics have the chance to move forward towards greater lengths, right?
The people that i believe could take advantage of such immersion and making it more fun out of it are probably insomniac games... they're daring and capable developers.
I mean its already pretty advanced no need to perfect something thats been perfect for years
I was an Ex Natural Motion intern too, but nowadays GPUs DONT work with it for the database info and coding. Besides with new Indie Games right on the corner they think is pointless. You Have to push extra hard making it NOT viable in new standards. I would bet on engine migration.
I love this system. Every single game need it, it's night and day with and without it.
100% agree
Definitely not all but ye
I love it too but I don’t think it would be suitable for all games.
It’d be limiting if used in all games.
Well unfortunately many games can’t use this as it would be too much for Xbox one and ps4 to handle… and it seems ppl cry that new games only come out for next gen… it’s a 9 year old console! Upgrade and stop crying to devs! It’s not their fault y’all scums and don’t work
I disagree, since some games can work well without it and the program is expensive. they just need more games to mix animations with rag dolls
Most companies overlook the amount of replay ability physics adds to a game even more than graphics
A game I loved messing around with for instance is Dying Light! Combat and rather decent ragdolls alone carried the entire game for me
@@Cheecken doesn’t dying light have a remake too is that any good?
@@smackdadickus Not as far as I am aware. It is a relatively new game, a zombie slasher by the Dead Island developers. I can really recommend the game it's quite fun, especially in co op!
@@Cheecken I will check it out thanks friend
@@smackdadickusdead island. Same devs same genre, different game :P
Great video! I think dynamic motion should be an industry standard in video games, or at least in shooters and sport games. One of the reasons I didn't get bored of Red Dead Online after hundreds of hours is that the shooting feels great thanks to euphoria. You feel the impact of the bullets. It is a shame that the remastered GTA games use UE 4 and not RAGE, would have been awesome to see euphoria implemented in those titles.
Sadly the gta remastered releases have too many other problems! But it would have been interesting to see how different the old titles would have been with euphoria
You can’t change a physics engine with a remaster. A remaster just cleans up the visuals and textures
@@Ccccc-mi3tr90% positive they know that. As he said it "would have been interesting" not that yeah it's possible and they should do it.
euphoria is the closest ive seen to humans simulating a living being. inception created
I've been obsessed with euphoria ever since GTA 4 released
There is just no way lol!! I was just making a video comparing RDR2's Euphoria to other games and I see your video in my recommended. Thanks for the content as always!
Go ahead, I would love to see it. If you finish it you can reply to this comment here with a link and I will check it out!
Glad you liked the video :)
It's sad that apparently there is no interest in this kind of technology anymore.
At this point Rockstar Games are the only ones who still release games using Euphoria and even the company that developed it stopped supporting it like 5 years ago and was then bought by Zynga.
Though there might be hope for further development in Rockstars games since Zynga was recently bought up by Take Two, the parent company of Rockstar Games.
I think Euphoria itself is quite outdated since the AI driven systems today could probably produce way better results.
The fact that Rockstar kept changing variables and behaviors of Euphoria for every game they released using it makes me believe that they have a big interest in motion synthesis and would probably develop a better system that'll be directly implemented into the RAGE engine.
(I am aware that Euphoria is part of RAGEs source code, but looking at the game files they haven't modified the underlying system and only changed variables, making me believe that they can't change much about the Euphoria system itself. Not sure if that's a software limitation or rather a legal one since technically Euphoria is still proprietary software owned by NaturalMotion)
Yea
Dying Light 1 uses ragdolls , its pretty decent and good , cant say about sequel though
It’s a legal one
Exanima is quite difficult to learn but has brilliant melee combat. Glad to see it get a mention.
I personally think GTA IV & RDR2 use Euphoria the best out of all the games the physics engine has been used in.
Yea
Yeah same. I think the physics and gravity in those two games adapt perfectly.
In gta 4 so many things are close to real life;
-Falling down stairs
-hit by a vehicle
-falling
-jumping out of a vehicle
They are the best things euphoria put to use in the game imo. However bullet impacts could be more realistic, i think npc’s absorb too many bullets, the pistol shots make sense and are realistic, but higher caliber like the ak47 still makes them stay upright and stumble around. Realistically the first round to the chest should make them full over with all of that force.
Rdr2 achieved some great things with euphoria as well.
The gravity and physics are very realistic in many cases;
-free falling
-animal physics, especially horses
-fist fights, where each punch smoothly transitions the player/npc in and out of the euphoria mode.
-rolling
-crashing/impacts
But again, the shooting physics, the most crucial one didnt seem near perfect.
Rdr2 did, however, get the shooting physics a bit better, since each gun and it’s caliber has different force impacts to the npc’s. Although the reactions don’t feel as dynamic as their previous games. Like the weird arm swaying after a headshot.
imo i think max payne 3 has the best euphoria out of all of em
i personally don't really give a damn about realistic ragdolls in a rockstar game
if the ragdolls were genuinely realistic then people would just drop down and hold their wounds there's not much stumbling involved
I've wondered why stuff like this stopped being in games, but never felt like looking into it.
Too expensive maybe or just lazy?
NM (NaturalMotion) Stopped licensing it to people and are now focusing on Mobile shit, but RAGE (Rockstar Advanced Game Engine) will always have it
@@TheExperienceYT man what a fucking waste of talent :(
Natural Motion stopped really developing it further and stopped selling licenses. Rockstar and LucasArts were the only licensees I think that held onto it and had plans for it, and one of those companies is dead.
@@LaloSalamancaGaming69 Yeah, it had a lot of potential and it sucks to see its developers not letting more people take advantage of it since they themselves barely do anything with it.
At least it’s built into rockstars tech
Interesting video about interesting topic
I actually don't know what to comment on this video but your channel is so underrated so I leave a comment so the algorithm show this video to other's recommendation
I really appreciate it! Glad you found it interesting :)
I remember the satisfying sound when you run someone over in GTA IV.
one of the absolute best physic engines in games. I would spend hours just bumping people in gta 4 just to see their reactions. Legendary games
this is the one game feature that frustrates me the most that it isnt used more in modern games
I really miss the era of physics. I remember being blown away by Half Life 2 being able to stack and throw around pretty much anything that wasn’t bolted down, Halo 3’s physics objects made levels feel alive as explosions could quickly change the layout of an area due to physics objects,
The biggest impact for me which is funny cause technically it’s the smallest was I finally got to play Mirror’s Edge on PC for the first time only a couple of years ago and can’t stress enough just how much physx blew me away. Sure the helicopter that chases you is scripted but seeing the guns tear apart the tarps on the scaffolding is insane! Or see the banners in the mall fall apart as enemies try and shoot you. It’s just cloth yet it adds so much life to game.
I’m sad that most devs these days have taken a “look, don’t touch” approach and I don’t really care for rtx
I rather have worse graphics , but more physics to play with like Euphoria did in GTA 4.I hate GTA 5 , not much fun , like in GTA 4
Well its about CPUs, overwise consoles wouldn´t run the game decently.
Try to test GTA V CPU Usage/Frame rates with physics mods then without physics mods
Same
Well so how you play other game without euphoria ragdoll?? Gta v physics still better than most fucking ubipop, cdpr and other games.
We need another backbreaker!!! ever since 2014 when zynga bought natural motion it hasn't been the same, they have pretty much discontinued all of there own work, like endorphin and backbreaker etc. they have been focusing more on mobile titles like CSR racing and Dawn of titans. Now i get that it would be very hard to bring backbreaker back and make it popular, but it would be worth a try.
Strange that there hasn't been an open source alternative that plugs into Unreal. Its been a long time since this technology was first demoed
Yup! However I do see some games who have slightly similar technologies. The closest to Euphoria most likely is Exanima, it might even be more sophisticated than Euphoria to an extent as it is completely physics driven, while Euphoria made use of a gigantic animation library. Exanimas movement looked very wonky for a long time, but nowadays it looks quite good!
It exists and it's called advanced locomotion system
So this is why take 2 interactive bought zynga for 12 billion dollars, zynga was the owner of the physics engine
Hefty sum! But yeah it makes sense, Rockstar pretty much monopolized on the engine
WAIT WHAT CLUMSY NINJA USES EUPHORIA?
It does! It is essentially the same implementation that you can observe in gta 4 and red dead redemption. If you compare the responses side by side you will be easily made aware of that fact!
NaturalMotion made both Euphoria and clumsy ninja so it makes sense
Backbreaker really looks like the game that looks like it came out straight from the trailer. Looks so awesome.
I feel like the importance of animations in video games is something that very rarely gets the attention it deserves and I'd personally like to see a greater emphasis on improvement in this area across the industry as a whole. I've always been a big fan of physics based and dynamic animations in video games since the introduction of ragdolls (though very early examples did look pretty goofy a lot of the time). I've occasionally heard people express a preference for traditional animations (in 3D games) in their review/retrospective look at a game, but I disagree in many instances (particularly when it comes to first/third person shooters).
There are certain situations where traditional animations just look awful and totally break my immersion. Death animations on stairs, at the edge of ledges or in close proximity to walls or other solid objects are the worst offenders. There's nothing worse than seeing a dead enemy sticking out of a staircase because the game doesn't even account for the slope, or an enemy partially on a ledge just laid flat like a piece of cardboard with half or more of their mass just jutting out supported by nothing but thin air. Another scenario is when an enemy falls, hits the ground and then goes through a traditional death animation like they've been shot. It just looks horrible! Also, most games don't have separate animations to account for the direction of an attack, don't take impacts with walls/objects into account and use either a single death animation per enemy type or a very limited number of them, so you see the same animations over and over again. Traditional/canned animation could be put to good effect if games used a greater variety of them and they were more context sensitive to address some of the scenarios above, but as I mentioned earlier, it's an area that often doesn't receive much attention.
I remember how excited I was when I saw early demos of Euphoria in action, such as the cancelled Indiana Jones game. In fact there were a number of presentations at that time with a heavy focus on physics within games and I thought "This is the future!". I've been pretty disappointed over the years, because aside from the handful of games you've focussed on here, there seems to have been little emphasis on dynamic animations and in game physics across the games industry as a whole. Instead there has been a large focus on increased resolution. Sure, increased resolution is nice and it makes sense seeing how TVs have become larger, but there are a large number of things I'd prefer to see improved before worrying about upping the resolution.
The two genres I really would like to see benefit from dynamic animations and/or implementation of physics are fighting and wrestling games. Both of these genres are extremely stale in my opinion. The last big advancement I can think of in the fighting game genre was the introduction of 3D with Virtua Fighter. Innovation within the wrestling genre died when Yuke's got their hands on the exclusive rights to the WWF/WWE license because there was nobody to compete with them. Yes, some of the wrestling games from the mid '90s to the early '00s were bad, but it was at least interesting because we got to see different takes from different dev teams and entirely new game engines that felt distinctly different from one another rather than yearly releases of essentially the same game with incremental changes and the occasional new gameplay mechanic tacked on.
One thing to note is that DMA Design, creators of the GTA franchise, has worked with a small company called Psygnosis in developing Lemmings (by Mike Dailly), who had been bought by Sony and has published titles like Toy Story for SNES, and also developed WipEout as they were being acquired by Sony.
I know that has nothing to do with this topic, but it was very cool to know
Thank you for sharing I had no idea!
Man i can sound like psycho to some people but ranning people over in gta 4 is hella fun. Ragdolls are great.
The last part is key. As long as it's proprietary gatekeeped tech. It's not really interesting outside of rockstar games
Too bad really, but oh well!
I still mad this engine isn’t in a wrestling game
These physics are one of the factors that makes the difference in actually controlling a character (like in GTA, RDR) or just pushing a virtual entity box (think most Ubisoft or open world games)
Is euphoria physics possible in mobile devices?
As stated in the video, yes it is
Thxx
Clumsy ninja has euphoria
I remember how the first gta 5 trailer had euphoria like gta 4. I was so disappointed when I played it for the first time because of the changed engine
The physics downgrade was pretty disappointing!
@@Cheecken Hardware limitations of PS3 and 360
@@Charles-hy6gp GTA IV was released on the 360. Whatever there's probably too much in GTA V to fit it all
@@NovaBoi7 ruclips.net/video/R9ATjSJ10vE/видео.html
You think PS3 and X360 could run GTA V with better physics?
They would have lower the players count in multiplayer to 8, smaller map, remove the 3-players mechanics and other things
@@NovaBoi7 Well it could have better physics, but the PS3 and X360 would have to run the game at 10fps to 15fps
The CPU usage would be increased by physics mods. You clearly don´t understand how physics works at all,
Blood trail, a VR Title features not exactly Euphoria or Endorphin style, but quite nice physical body interaction
I did play that game! But I swiftly refunded it. Beyond the interesting approach to gore and the at times believable animations I think that the game needs way more time in the oven.
It's so frustrating how incredible AAA games could be on a technical level in terms of physics and ai, but seem to only push shallow graphical elements like texture size and resolution
I still think gta 4s euphoria is the best
Is any rag doll engine similar to this is brilliance in the works or is it never coming
There are games that come close! One game I love the ragdolls in is Dying Light (the first game). The ragdolls are constricted by the skeletal system of the NPCs and they seemlessly switch from ragdolling to animation and back to ragdolling. The ragdolls also seem to be less expensive when compared to euphoria. They might now be be pinnacle of realism and don't employ dynamic motion synthesis, but they are really fucking good nonetheless!
Max Payne 3 is GOAT euphoria
I think I agree!
god its so nice seeing backbreaker mentioned in a video, this and blitz the league 2 will always be my favorite football games, I still hope for a perfect synthesis of the two to one day come out.
Glad to be of service ;)
I am not a big american football fan, but I had TONNES of fun with Backbreaker, especially Backbreaker Vengeance! To me those games are far superior to the Madden franchise, at least technically speaking.
@@Cheecken There was a Backbreaker mobile game as well, which I played a ton of when I was a kid. It was just the tackle alley minigame from the first game, essentially. The console versions may not have done well critically or in sales, but mobile version sold extremely well being just a 99 cent mobile game (before F2P games dominated the market). I think the only reason they made Backbreaker Vengeance was because the mobile game did so well. I'm not sure how Vengeance plays on XBLA, but on mobile it was pretty much just more Backbreaker Tackle Alley except you play the offense.
Honestly after you play a game with euphoria Physics games that don’t have it seem mid
impressive physics
Very!
Отсутствие Эйфории в играх заставило меня попытаться создать что-то похожее и мне почему-то кажется, будь у меня целая студия из опытных людей, я создал бы лучше эйфории, потому что я теперь понимаю, как это можно реализовать и лучше чем в ГТА4, это конечно громкое заявление, но все равно его увидит мало людей :D
I'm a dev too. Euphoria is literally just physics blended with animation and some ik, simple stuff but revolutionary for the time.
@@alex-qn5xp if this is not so revolutionary now, why have few people repeated it so far?
Well there goes my hopes of added the engine to my dream game.
I want to see things like these make a comeback if the shiny skins and graphics bubble ever bursts
i fucking hate ea sports games but backbreaker looks so awesome cause it isnt just press button and do it, you press button and hope to god they lunge correctly and smack a dude and if it does it looks so entertaining
I loved the tech behind the game, but figured out very quickly that if you dont have a single clue about American Football, the game is like a giant mystery to you lol. Hope you have fun if you ever try it out!
@Cheecken dude thank you for replying after the video released so long ago thats actually really awesome
im an american but i still dont like our football all that much
it really just boils down to push to the objective a little farther every time so that its significant enough for you to keep playing and try not to get absolutely rocked by some 7 foot 250 pound brick heading at you at like 20 miles an hour
anyways good shit dawg:))
@@RedMenace0 Many thanks for the explanation! Maybe I will boot up my PS3 again and play more Backbreaker 😁
Thanks for watching bro, makes me happy to see people enjoy my videos!
Physics is what makes a game fun..thats one thing i miss post ps3 era games ..imagine a good sports game even with good physics,but they want these competitive games to be as stiff and predictable as possible just so a baby esports player doesn't cry
Awesome video. Came here after remembering that I used to play around with the engine around 10 years ago and wanted to see what was going on with it these days. It's sad that it's business model relies in exclusivity, but at the same time I don't think it would make for necessarily better games across the board. Every game made by Rockstar features sluggish controls and floaty gunplay and it's partly because their physics engine is not really either realistic or good gameplay-wise. Proof of this is that the physics engine has been toned down by Rockstar by every new release since GTA 4.
I'd love to see these features tackled by developers that are not shackled to ancient game-design philosofies like Rockstar is, though. I believe that every shooter could benefit at least a little bit by having characters respond somewhat realistically to being shot as they tend to do in games by Rockstar.
Glad you like it!
I have a soft spot for Euphoria, but I do agree that it came in conflict with basic gameplay at many points. The best example for Euphoria just fucking up completely (or depending on how you look at it working as intended) is when your character starts stumbling and uncontrollably moves in a direction you don't want them to move.
Rockstar really outdid themselves when it comes to the implementation of Euphoria in Max Payne 3. To this day Max Payne 3 is the most entertaining third person shooter out there, specifically because of its animation system! As I stated in the video, seeing Max slam into a wall or get caught in a fence is really entertaining and it forces you to think a bit more about where to shoot-dodge to.
Dynamic Motion Synthesis is really cool and I think that some indie games came really close in developing similar technologies, most notably Exanima which has its Gameplay cleverly built around physics based animations. I wished Natural Motion would sell their solution as a software package, but let's be real, that just won't happen! It will be hard for other studios to replicate such technologies, especially since many of them do not have extensive animation libraries like Rockstar.
@@Cheecken I agree! I didn't like Max Payne 3 too much (actually pre-ordered it back in the day), but that's not because of the physics. Max was brilliant to control and throw around and that was the best part of the game. My problem with the game is that it actually felt really incoherent to have a physics based character controller while having hitscan weapons (the gunshots hit the crosshair regardless of where the gun is actually pointing). That coupled with how spongy the enemies feel unless you hit them in the head made for really not too much fun gameplay, and that's a problem across every game since GTA IV.
Doesn't Left4Dead use euphoria? If not then they must have their own custom natural motion engine because that had pretty amazing and fluid feeling animations.
@@RamblyBear There was a video from Crowbcat just a few days ago about this. In Left 4 Dead they actually used a clever system that blends the physics engine (Havok) with tons of premade animations. It was really very well made and accounts for every possibility and angle to the point where it's possible to be fooled thinking there's more going on but it's really just animations.
@@RamblyBear VALVE uses Havok physics engine in Source.
No wonder why I played Clumsy Ninja a lot when I was young
Thank you for this video, I wanted to learn more after I played Star Wars The Force Unleashed. This game made me fall in love with Euphoria, the enemies reactions when you use the Force to push, grab or throw them in the air are fantastic! They can even grab some ledges when you make them fly!
I've also played RDR, when John is drunk his movements are amazing.
This system has so much potential, it's a shame developers can't use it. Today even Sony's or Ubisoft's average high budget games still have weird ragdoll animations.
gta 4 REALLY utilized euphoria and since then rockstar has kinda gimped the physics
Yeah it's weird. All the way until the end of the 2000s, it seemed that game developement, especially in regards to shooters and sports games, was about more realism, natural and life like looks and gameplay. And then it just stopped and became more of a niche concept.
Man
NaturalMotion stopping making these realistics engines for android games is like stopping drawing realistic portraits for drawing anime instead
Crazy how something so unbelivably good is so left behind right now due to many reasons i may not be able to comprehend just yet, like the licensing part, and how only few companies are advancing on it. Games nowadays really and mostly rely on graphics and so little of them care about their game's physics as part of their selling points. Its cool we re advancing on graphics, but how can one thing stop these developers from ever developing an actual world-like physics engine and apply it into their game.
GTA IV has flaws in its physics, for example, the way the characters move like how slow they turn around as mentioned, but the pain, the reactions to environments and surroundings, and the way they fall all limpsy and weak are so astonishing to even someone who cant code and program stuff.
I understand its complex stuff but i cant see games the same way again once i saw those euphoria engines do their job, it really felt like its ahead of its time. Kind of tragic really, i really wish to see more physics engines being worked on as time progresses, because thats what i think seperates a good game from a mediocre one in certain aspects (not entirely all aspects). I may not be happy until i see another game with a good physics engine like RDR2 and GTA IV
Rdr2 uses better euphoria than gta 5, gta 5 has a downgraded euphoria engine
Yea
I remember using endorphin by naturalmotion as a kid and being so sad when they deleted it completely. that tool would be so useful for exporting bvh animations of simulated characters
Must have been fun to play around with! What are bvh files used for?
@@Cheecken they are files used for skeletal animation like mocap data. At the time if you had the license (~400$ if I remember correctly) you could make an animation with physics using euphoria, export it, and use it in a 3D animation.
@@blingmoney Thank you for the answer!
Thank you. I don’t understand much if anything of what you are saying but I also didn’t know how to play EA Skate until I started trying. Maybe start trying to understand how games are made I will learn a thing or two.
(Edit was because of a minor typo that irritated me).
7:41 Clumsy ninja was a euphoria!? No wonder I loved it…dang every game showcased here I have loved or took interest in.
dawg I love this video but please stop saying syntheesis
Nope :P
Now, Take-Two (Rockstar Games' parent company) owns Euphoria. They've bought Zynga recently, and Zynga owned/owns NaturalMotion thus Euphoria. I'm wondering if that will do anything, maybe the Euphoria engine will get somehow better?
That makes me wonder what engine will gta 6 use
@@djanithegamersfm Probably an updated version of RAGE (Rockstar Advanced Game Engine), which will have Euphoria
@@djanithegamersfm Yep, it still uses RAGE and Euphoria as I guessed.
@@jxp2222 yup
@@jxp2222 The downside is they're gonna make it a very limited proprietary where only games that T2 owned will have the access over it. Look up what had happened to RenderWare, it was widely used by hundreds of game developers during its heyday but as soon as EA bought Criterion Games off of Canon, EA just decided to gradually cut off other studios from receiving technical support and in turns, studios also began moving to different game engines.
The Force Unleashed is a fun Euphoria game
es como todo, euphoria puede ser comparable con el motor de fisicas de cryengine en cuanto a rendimiento, pues si bien consume poco el hacer 40 calculos de fisicas para un solo objeto, si empiezas a calcular 20 personajes, es el equivalente a hacer caer una torre de 800 objetos en cryengine, esto siendo generoso, pues en un juego actual hay mas de 40 huesos, y la cantidad de huesos del rig hay que multiplicarlo por 3, ya que se le añaden los virtual muscles y el sistema nervioso, por lo que 20 personajes equivaldrian a 6000 objetos en cryengine, la CPU trabaja en serie, y ese es una de los problemas de euphoria, no puede usarse en la GPU debido a que la GPU está diseñada para el procesamiento en paralelo, por lo que no podria retraer un musculo y que este afecte a los musculos adyacentes, además de que usaban una inteligencia artificial por lo que tenia que invertirse un dineral en entrenar la inteligencia artificial, hoy en día la cosa podria ser distinta, los procesadores son mucho mas potentes, pero naturalmotion solo... se rindió :(
we love you naturalmotion forever
Van de la mano, Euforia y Cryengine tengo entendido usan un código muy similar. El problema es el rendimiento que tolera el CPU. Con el tiempo no lee los códigos como antes y tendrás que actualizar de forma exagerada. Causando problemas gigantes. Cosa que puede tener problemas con el calentamiento del chipset. Tendrás que acortar muchísimos programas y pasarás a perder rendimiento por un motor totalmente desactualizado.
Además, muchas GPU no toleran procesamientos en paralelo. Ten en cuenta eso. Toman datos basados en código abierto. Cosa muy confusa para las GPUs nuevas. Especialmente si tienen procesadores nuevos donde sólo leen RAMAS de código específico. El Natural Motion podría volver si las GPUs no tuvieran bases de datos malas. Créeme, el CryEngine es donde entra mal con las GPUs nuevas. El Euphoria podría ser, pero pide mucho. Así que no me sorprendo porque no se usan para Nuevos Juegos. El problema es que los jugadores viejos se quedaron estancados con las físicas de antes.
Si quieres gráficos y compradores, tendrás que ir con los nuevos motores. Te guste o no. Si no, te quedarás en el 2011 por siempre.
thought you said rectal physics 10:06
Some games have those too...
May i ask how would remedys's northlight engine compare to euphoria in terms of ragdoll physics and animations in games like control and Alan wake 2 ? . and i don't mean to sound primitive but in my opinion they seem to pale in comparison to the likes of max payne 3 for example
I sadly don't have any input to give on that matter, I played control a bit but I dont have much experience with remedy's engine. I think for control at least a more regular animation blending system was used 🤔
@@Cheecken Thanks for the reply . but please what other third person shooters like max payne 3 would you say has euphoria level ragdolls and animations that you have played ?
@@__________5311 Unironically none other
Backbreaker was the best football game due to euphoria and people can fly
A live ragdoll still uses a playercontroller, they aren't different, they just swap between the player controller and the advanced ragdoll system when they need to, Rockstar seem to intentionally make their controllers a little sluggish, probably to help with their advanced animation systems. Also, you listed several games to use it but excluded games like GTA 5, you may not have noticed because they tweaked it so much, but yes GTA 5 also used euphoria.
I believe Unreal Engine teased something similar a few years ago. As for Euphoria, I always thought Rockstar had exclusivity on its use since they were the only ones I saw using it. I remember the first time the Euphoria engine tech demo appeared almost 20 years ago. It's unfortunate that physics in gaming has been neglected, as basic interactions like pushing objects (such as chairs or boxes) in some games are not even possible anymore. While playing Control, I noticed that almost everything is interactive and can be moved, destroyed, or pushed around. This made me realize that since Crysis (2007), we haven't seen much more evolution or groundbreaking physics in games.
The last tease for a big physics game was in the Crackdown 3 E3 demo, which they abandoned and released a very mild implementation compared to what they promised.
Nowadays, the buzzword is ray tracing, a few years ago it was hair simulation. Yet in most games, if you shoot a lamp, it will magically continue emitting light.
Maybe in another 20 years of tech evolution 😊
(edit: english is hard man)
Dude, this is how gaming is these days. Physics don't matter anymore, and developers are just lazy. All they care about is using fancy words like "ray tracing" to sell their games.
7:56 Ohhhhh so that's why I loved the ragdolls in this game when I was a kid.
So years ago after GTA 4 came out but before RDR2 came out I downloaded something to my computer. It was like a trial to be able to use a game engine. I thought it was the RAGE engine but after a google search it seems nobody outside of rockstar games has ever used it. So I am guessing it was Euphorbia that I got to test out.
Dude I miss Max Payne 3.
Imagine having euphoria on boxing and mma games
that sounds like a wet dream
My favorite game with the euphoria engine would have had to be the Star Wars Forced Unleashed title, and also its sequel if not slightly lacking in the story department i can still toss troopers around like a madman
I love the game, however not the same Forced Unleashed as the one you played! I only played the PS2 version which does not have the more sophisticated active ragdolls, however it is a wonderful game too.
Someday soon I will check out the newer gen version of The Force Unleashed and I recommend you check out the PS2 version too. They are in quite a few respects very different games, but both of them are great in their own right!
Gtaiv intensifies
I have natural motion euphoria as a mod for gta 5 any idea how that works seeing as its so hard to obtain
It's relatively simple as euphoria is hard coded into the RAGE engine! Gta 5 under the hood features the same tech as gta 4 or even red dead redemption, they essentially just adjusted some parameters that control how much the euphoria animation system kicks in and how dynamic it should be. For gta 5 it was toned down drastically, as to why I don't know, I presume it could have been an optimisation measure.
But yeah I assume the mod is just a change in a script somewhere and I assume it isn't that big either :)
There will Never Ever be another engine like Euphoria
Studios nowadays just wont bother with their ragdoll physics. Almost every game BUT rockstar ones use basic ragdoll physics.
Did you happen to emulate Clumsy Ninja on PC? I saw a mouse cursor and was wondering.
yes!
Thanks for the reply!
If I did my research correctly. Zynga bought Naturalmotion. The team that made Euphoria's Physics Engine. Now Take-Two acquired Zynga.
Does that mean that Rockstar has full control of the Euphoria Physics Engine? I wonder if GTA VI will have a more dynamic physics engine than RDR2 and GTA V.
the small shoutout to Exanima was dirty 😂 they deserve way more recognition
It makes me so sad that this system didn't become the next Havok engine. Besides that Force Unleashed game, I don't recall anything outside of the Rockstar games that use it.
And even so, the Euphoria physics got nerfed to hell and back for GTA5. It's just not nearly as fun as GTA4 or MP3. At least RDR2 was better in that regard
GTA 6 is confirmed to also be using the Euphoria engine so we'll see
@@thundurr I mean, I figured that much was a given
@@thundurr i hope it’s like gta 4 physics i hope they don’t change it
I don't think you understand what euphoria or havok is at all ngl, I'm a dev and can tell you that both are completely and wild unrelated to each other.
After doing a bit of digging, the reason why they don't even bother anymore because their mobile games ended up making them sooooo much more money, and most game developers interested in the technology don't have the time or money for it so they could not find customers. In the late ps3 and xbox 360 era, they had animation middle ware called morphine but soon got outdated as more engines integrated the features they had.
For me physics can make or break a game, they add so much varaity and fun if done right
I kind of love the idea of Clumsy Ninja, just for the charm factor.
I cant believe this isn't industry standard by now. Modern games still release with ragdoll effects from over 10 years ago and its really disappointing.
What about gta 5
GTA 5 also utilizes Euphoria, but to a very diminished extend. The implementation is nowhere near as impressive as it is in Max Payne 3, Backbreaker or GTA 4. This is why the game did not appear in this video!
@@Cheecken ah ok yeah of gta 6 comes out and if it ends up having good Mechanics then I think you should cover and I do believe gta 5 is just good graphicaly and realistic but you are correct I do wish max Payne 3 mechanics existed but I think they didn’t have use for them they could of done those for micheal since he can do bullet time but thank you for replying that’s very understandable now
@@Cheecken you can however mod it to gta 4 standards :D
great videos, i see the effort you are putting into this. shame that you are not getting the attention you deserve :D
It means a lot to me to read comments like yours. Thank you for the support
if only companies started focusing on physics and ambient destruction, instead of just adding pixels and polygons
Damn you took me back with that ios game I used to play that all the time in 2013-14 😂😢
donkey melon
why is this not on unreal market? thats how i like to keep track of ALL MY CONTENT!
Inaccessible or not, this is truly revolutionary. I can't even begin to imagine how you could script something like this. I am an amateur programmer though.
I like GTA 4 euphoria
God copied GTA 4 source code when he created this universe phisycs
As a kid, my excitement for new games came from the possibility of improved physics. Not graphics, map, story, or anything else. I was super excited for GTA V because I was expecting the physics from IV to blown out of the water.
That was disappointing.
Have to say Euphoria was a hell of an engine. But with nowadays requirements it gets sLOW on todays standards. Besides, you'll get no new buyers with the demand of NEW GAMES. And GRAPHICS can be a bummer OVER TIME.
My guess is that it's not available as a middleware because it needs to be implemented on top of your game's character controller and whatever physics engine you're using. There are similar solutions to Unity/Unreal though because it's mainly running on top of their own components as I mentioned and technically they blend between the physics calculations and the animations. There are also combined techniques which tying motion matching/physics/etc. together...