The Truth Behind the SAT Essay
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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Can talk about the 14 year old who did the entire study all by himself
YA
Me at 16: *Can't even study my syllabus* 👁️💧👄💧👁️
@@chunnilal2111 me who never even got the syllabus and didnt bother asking for it
It isn’t hard to do a study when provided the data though…
@@nopep5606 Bro what? Lol
Fun fact: A college student wrote a long essay, but they only wrote the first paragraph, after that, they started rambling about random stuff, about how dumb the teachers are for not seeing it, and even had multiple Loren ipsum paragraphs, and they still got an A.
Lol what? That’s hilarious. Is there something I can search to learn more?
legendary
My mom did the same thing in hs/uni! Crazy…
My dad told me that a friend of his transcribed a soccer match in an exam, even included a full page of with the word "goooo...ooool", and got 100%
@nachoijp HAHAHAHAHA
For those who don’t know, the graders for collegeboard essays have less than a minute to grade a full essay
So maybe give them more fucking time-
@@lulolie
Sure. But also: some of us have minor writing disabilities and would rather not deal with that shit.
That's crazy, in my country the only way to get into college is by doing exams, and all of them have essays included, but the graders have like at least 20 minutes to grade each, and i think most exams have every essay to be graded at least twice, by different people
@@fulana_de_tal most college board essays are like that. One of my AP teachers, a grader, grades our in class essays as if they were college board and can do them all in less than 45 minutes with feedback because he’s done it so much and seen the prompt so many times that he is intimately familiar with what goes on in a good vs. bad essay.
@@PokeMageTech Why tf would a grader for SATs have a writing disability?
I feel so bad for those who were denied because of this. High schools always emphasize writing less and focusing more on detail and skill, but imagine how many students with potential got denied because they followed what their high schools told them..
I don't know what high-school you went to but it was the complete opposite 10 years ago for me 😂
@Lex Bright Raven we also don't have standardized _standards_ let alone effective measures for ability.
Isn't it better in the real world to be succinct and eloquent?
Nah high school want things to be pointless long
Correlation not causation. There is a correlation between length of an essay and its qaulity.
"Length doesn't matter, its what's inside that counts." -MIT Writing Director Les Perelman
Poor tall people
it has a good personality..
Pp
We live in a society 😔
That's not what she said 💀💀
Sigh, good. Feel bad for those who were judged unfairly. Quality over quantity, but I guess the people grading them don't understand that...
Quantity over quality
In essays, quantity is often connected to quality.
I don’t blame the people grading, I wouldn’t want to sit through thousands of 700+ word essays either
@@AveRay_ exactly “, imagine not writing enough for your COLLEGE essay. I bet you will hop on 2k for a couple hours though.
@@idontevenknowanymorelol2062 you have to pay to take the SAT and the graders get payed so I expect them to do their job
They really are teaching us that the way to become good at communicating is to be as convoluted with the words and definitions to lengthen the word count, instead of making everything short but easy to understand
Based on your comment, yes they are.
However, I have doubts about this study. In my experience, the students who write the longer essays wrote better essays.
Long essays, worst case scenario, contain as much or less information than a short one and the rest is filler garbage. I have honestly never read an essay like this.
A longer essay may be filled with superfluous explanation and irrelevant detail. It may ramble and lack clarity. These I have read. But I found my teachers and professors punished these essays appropriately. They discarded the useless bits, deducted marks in the communication criteria, and fairly assessed the rest of the content.
A long essay may also be so absurdly long that the student made no meaningful effort to restrict the scope of their work or deliberately violated the word limit grotesquely. These were also always marked down severely or not marked at all.
No. What I find is usually, the shorter than average essays were poorly written, the ideas were not clearly communicated or researched and overall they lacked application.
Longer than average essays were so because the student had researched more, put more thought into what they wanted to say and had drafted much more than the task assigned. They then set about culling paragraphs, then deleting sentences and finally tightening up their phrases so their prose was most efficient.
Of course their still over the word limit. They worked too hard to get rid of that key point, and that sentence is simply too good to shorten for the sake of three words.
In the end, compared to a slightly better essay that was slightly shorter, maybe a longer essay has some unfair advantage.
But in general, I find that quality correlates with quantity when it comes to written work produced by students undergoing assessment. They write more because they want to say more, because they know more, which is why they get the better mark.
@@emilchandran546 this is the SAT, the graders domt give af because theyre not their students
Any degree with a genuine need for skilled communication will have you do technical writing courses. Or at least that's what the university I go to does.
@@emilchandran546lol the joke is that u give a convoluted word filling long response just like they want us to, right? right?
@@soulsearcher7077 the joke is that people believe this bullshit. People who are capable of, and willing to, write longer essays than their peers are obviously, on average, much more capable of writing well. The SAT got rid of the essay portion because it costs a lot to have graders go over them all and competitive colleges already make you submit essays to evaluate.
I have always hated "fluffy" writing. When the text repeats itself or doesn't say anything for several sentences. So I don't write that way. It is one of the better reasons I tend to have short essays.
I remember my AP English teacher wasn’t very good, but there was a piece of literature that has stuck with me for a while, that being Orwell’s essay on politics and the English language. The essential point of it is that good language, language that communicates effectively and efficiently is language that is precise
I fucking hate it.
My English teacher was usually giving worse grades for students with longer essays bc she was able to spot more mistakes. For her it didn't matter if the essay was 200 or 600 words long. 3 mistakes is 3 mistakes.
The kid was 14 and did a whole study on it? I'm 14 too what am i doing in my life😐
Ikr, he just casually doing _studies_ in his free time while the rest of us are just watching YT and playing video games 😂😂
kid is a different breed
Damn that sucks
Something you enjoy hopefully
@@rollxrsmash3591why are you talking like that when you didn't even use the right you're
Don’t worry man just keep studying and working out, I’m 13 and already am better at maths and science than 15-16yr olds
Based off of my SAT/ACT scores I should have struggled through college. I graduated top of my class. I knew other people who did poorly on the tests and still excelled in college. I knew some who did well on the tests and dropped out after being on academic probation. These tests really don’t show anything most of the time, so it really wouldn’t be a bad thing if they went away.
If you don’t mind me asking. What was your SAT/ACT scores?
Exactly, ACT SAT scores don’t mean jack shit
I took the SAT 4 times trying to get a higher score (I was an overachiever) and knew that the section I was lacking in was always the essay portion, but I could never earn those extra points to make it across the threshold for a top 1 percentile score, despite turning in what I thought were high quality essays. I prefer to write my essays concisely and struggled to make it to word minimums throughout high school. I got into college and the lecturers in my writing seminars said to just ignore the minimums if I felt that I had established my arguments sufficiently, and I never let that aspect of my writing bother me again. Glad to know that I was right about the bias towards longer essays. I had a classmate who earned a higher essay score than me and they padded out their essay with song lyrics 🙃.
Word limits are terrible and should not exist,
Ex.
I and a coworker make a summary of what our workplace does for people, i make it a sentence long the other writes a three page essay, which one can go on a billboard? An essay or a couple sentences
When a kid the same age as you runs an entire study but then there’s you scrolling through yt shorts even though you know you have an assignment and three tests due tomorrow
I remember writing the core essentials in a short but stacked essay once and my friend next to me wrote the same essay but made it much longer by Repeating the same things over and over in different ways. literally when you read it you would start to get annoyed by how much she repeated it. somehow, she got an A while I got a C-.
In Spanish class in high school I had a teacher who always graded homework and assignments based on "is there sufficient writing in this page" but never actually read the writing on the page. I realized this when I got something clearly wrong and she didn't say or do anything about it. So then I wrote something like "if you read this I need help" in English. She said and did nothing different, just marked it 10/10 homework grade. Now that my suspicion was confirmed I just started writing movie spoilers on every blank, in English. I got a perfect homework score in that class.
I always feel stressed because, in essays, there's always a word/character limit that you have to/should pass. I barely never pass it, or if I do pass it, it's most likely just me rambling around trying to make sense by adding different viewpoints etc. Then my teacher says that it all doesn't add up together-
Holy fuck i knew my essay grad was BS, but now it makes sense since I wrote a shorter one
Honestly same. I thought i did decent on mine despite it being short. Didn't get a great grade on it.
I hear this so often that it annoys me, but I think it deserves repeating here. CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION.
I was thinking of just writing the entire storyline of Metal Gear Rising for my SAT essay.💀
I think it would catch an eye when you ramble about memes for half a paragraph
College freshman and highschool: The longer the better
College Senior and Working: Explain it to me in 5 minutes otherwise I don't want it.
During school when they make us write longer and longer essays to "prepare for collegue" I realize that to reach the number of words I end writting a lot of filler.... and it worked
and to make it worst, during actual collegue (in my career itself they barely ask for essays, but during the "nivelation" there was an obligatory communication class "because engineers don´t know how to socialize and we want to change that") they actually ask me to write LESS... and it was hard to write less once I get used to elongate my sentences so much
*essays are NOT a good way to qualify something if you use a points system because in an essay there are few quantifiable factors that are actually important*
it’s probably just because if you have more things written down than you have a higher chance of getting things that are good in your essay (if that makes sense)
It's like the infinite monkeys on typewriters infinitely thing, eventually a monkey will write the perfect essay
But also a higher chance of having wrong things it doesnt balance
@@thedugdugman45 college board doesn’t take away points. They only add points. Having a clarity point might help this a little bit, as it means you now have to be effective at communicating at everything else.
Yea I don't get it, stands to reason a longer essay would get a higher score
Bro the College Board is my worst enemy istg
Yea i learned this trick in SAT prep, so we were taught to write 6-8 paragraphs. Didn't matter if we kept re writing the same thing but worded differently, as long as it was a long essay, you got higher scores.
I remember talking to one of my classmates who got a higher score than me on the essay, and she proclaimed that she didn’t know why because half way through she just “gave up” and wrote about her day. My essay was long, but it also made sense for the topic. There was no reason that her substantially longer essay that 2 paragraphs in stopped making sense, should earn a higher score than anyone else.
love that you shouted out the student!
Correlation doesn't always mean causation. The longer essays might have had more in-depth analysis which caused them to fetch higher scores.
This 14 year old needs a nobel oeace prize for saving high schoolers across the nation
I wrote a great essay, and I pride myself on keeping things brief. I got a terrible score and I still am not over it
Well I thought that was obvious. The longer the essay the more effort which results in a better essay. During my History class yesterday, our internet was out so I wrote a 2 paged essay over WWII. It wasn’t the best, because I only had 1 hour and didn’t revise it, but my teacher was impressed.
that. makes a lot of sense. i remember writing an essay that i was super proud of and not understanding why it got a 4. at least now i have closure
I fuckin hated the SAT essay but I wrote 3 small paragraphs and got the highest score
I had the exact opposite happen to me on one of my essays, I wrote a piece that was several pages long, for what was supposed to be a short essay assignment and ended up getting a D. I loved that essay and still believe it to be the best thing I've written haha. My friend who put in no effort and wrote the minimum possible with sentences like "Freedom is important because it would be bad without it" got an immediate A+. Afterwards the teacher had us evaluate his grades to see if it was fair, and why we thought that way. I wrote another essay explaining my thoughts, and found out at graduation (2 years later) he never read those anyways. We had a laugh and he even apologized through my sister 2 years after graduation about that one grade I disagreed with, still a favorite teacher of mine regardless of the incident haha.
Looking at SAT prep books, I can clearly see this. Especially in the official SAT study guide, they showed us a lot of examples and I can quickly see that the low scores are short and the high scores are very long.
I love the visuals of this using paper and drawings with a marker and the hand bringing them up... very pleasant and interesting.. better than slideshows and the rest. Thank you!
The CollegeBoard needs to be dissolved in its entirety.
Courage is the ladder on which all the other virtues mount.
Quality breeds quantity.
That's not to say that there wasn't an unfair bias, but the fact should be remembered.
One thing to consider is that in the longer essays, they very likely went deeper into the details than the people who wrote shorter essays. As long as they were actually read through and considered, I'd wager the grade differential would be justified
Those grading the essays have on average one minute per essay to grade. The odds are they just didn’t have time to read the longer essays, and erred on the side of assuming they were good. Having more time to mull over a shorter essay means they had more time to be genuinely critical.
Hardest part of this job is not getting replaced by automation
I wrote really short essays and scored like 8/24 on the essay section, but I don’t think it was taken into account for college acceptances
Fun fact, it’s up to the states to decide, and as of 2023 the essay took place and will continue to
Ah, the fascinating and perplexing world of essay length and quality correlation! It is indeed a peculiar phenomenon that we find ourselves pondering. One cannot deny that the existence of such a correlation is not necessarily a cause for distress. After all, one could argue that individuals who dare to present incomplete essays deserve a justly low score, thus implying a connection between brevity and subpar quality. Hence, it would be reasonable to anticipate a mild correlation between the length of an essay and its overall caliber.
Now, let us divert our attention to the lofty realms of overachievers, those zealous souls who endeavor to expand their arguments to the utmost extent and embrace multiple perspectives. In their zealous pursuit of academic excellence, it is not unfathomable to imagine that their lengthy compositions would be bestowed with higher scores. For in their voluminous offerings, they demonstrate a willingness to explore every nook and cranny of their topic, leaving no stone unturned in their quest for intellectual glory.
However, my dear interlocutor, let us not forget the intriguing realm of RUclips shorts. Alas, the constraints of this abbreviated format preclude the consideration of counterarguments or the delicate nuances that adorn scholarly discourses. Instead, the brevity of these videos compels their creators to employ catchy sound bites, luring in the masses with their tantalizing and somewhat misleading criticisms. It is an unfortunate reality that the very nature of the RUclips short, designed to captivate a wide audience, fosters a temptation for authors to prioritize sensationalism over nuanced thought.
In contemplating this intricate web of ideas, one might argue that even if the producer of such a RUclips short were to consider the aforementioned arguments, why should they labor to craft a nuanced and thoughtful piece when the siren call of clickbait beckons? Alas, my friend, the allure of garnering attention through exaggerated titles and eye-catching thumbnails often proves irresistible in the realm of digital content creation.
Thus, we find ourselves entangled in a web of interconnections, where the length of an essay, the motivations of overachievers, and the captivating allure of RUclips shorts all converge. It is a realm where correlation dances with causation, and where the pursuit of depth and intellectual nuance often gives way to the whims of popular appeal. Oh, the complex tapestry of human communication and its ever-evolving mediums!
i’m glad i have sats tomorrow
This is why good essay writing should have word limit to them. If you can't write a good one, means you can't articulate your thoughts properly nor you have one if you just write random thrash.
MIT student here. I definitely was suspicious why my essay score was about average when I got a 36 lol. I’m just not a fast writer
A longer essay will cover it all.
I loved the essay part. Easiest perfect score outside of math to show off to colleges who cared. I just filled every single page they gave.
Milo beckman was my math tutor for the SHSAT! He‘s really smart and just a cool person overall 😊
I live in SA and I am in a high school that uses IEB curriculum, and all essays have (and always had) a limit on words, a min and a max, like you have to write between 500 and 600 words, as an example
The amount obviously depends on your grade and wether or not it's home language or first additional language
My point is that all essays are more or less the same length and you lose marks of you go over the limit
Teachers are required to count the words
Your also required to count the words and write down how many their is and if your number is wrong you also lose marks
Putting this limit on amount of words is very annoying because the word count is almost always too much or too little for somereason
Like
1)You must write an essay on your intire life story in detail in 3 hours
120 - 250 words
2) you must write an essay on what you are for breakfast 1987 days ago in 30 minutes
850 -1250 words
This gives me great confidence knowing I got an A* and wrote about a quarter as much as the avarage
It’s because the type of person that puts in the effort to make a longer essay probably also put in the effort to make a better essay
I think the reason behind longer essays getting higher Mark's is because how much and when they detail the topic, that's a key to remember when and how much detailed
I got mediocre grades in high school for my essays, because I was always always straight to the point. I made my point, gave my arguments and sources and a conclusion and that was it. When I went to uni we got a lot of assignments that had a limit on how many words you could use. Suddenly my grades went up, since they were looking for a well structured argument that was not convoluted with useless filler and braindump.
this is awesome because i suck at writing long essays but i don’t think my essay actually sucks
There needs to be a ranked mode for academical topics like math and science and your ranked rating is used for going into college
Feels like the times I tried to make a willfully short series of essays proved the point
Can we remember correlation =/= causation? How do we not know that students who wrote better essays simply tended to write longer essays? Generally with the amount of paper and time they give it's quite hard to write *too* much so simply writing more meant that students were able to flesh out their ideas better.
It’s my floor I took the SAT I hated every second of it. It made me mad bad That the SATs are no longer required but I am also glad that no one else has to deal with that he’ll. It’s like a happy angry feeling.
(not from America) but growing up we had word counts. An essay needed to have at least 90% of word count, but all words over the word count did not count for your mark.
Let's say the word count was 400.You wouldn't be penalized if your essay was between 360 and 400 words long. If it was less than 360 you would lose marks, if it had more than 400 words, the words after 400 would be crossed out. If it had more than 440 you would start losing marks
I didn’t do the writing portion of the sat. I did for the act and it was my lowest score. I hope that we soon get rid of all standardized testing.
It's the improbability drive. 42
This sums up my entire experience with the field of writing.
Just a small correction: 10^18
College is still pretty much like this at least for me, the teachers do care about the work you put in but the school system only cares that you are meeting the word count.
And this right here is why my writing became less acute over time. I was punished for my early linguistic abilities by minimum word counts. I would convey all of the information in fewer words because I knew how to speak concisely. And I would then be punished for it because I didn't hit x paragraphs. Absolutely idiotic.
As someone who recently took the sat essay bit and wrote a shorter one because im used to it and got the points i needed in that short bit
FUCK
I remember that my english teacher in hs had us write a book and only focused on how many words or chapter we had. Schools should focus on quality over quantity, not the other way around.
There’s a story here in Finland that some teacher graded essays solely by taking a ruler and measuring the length. So some madlad wrote a pancake recipe and got the highest score.
Its common sense of course longer essays are graded more due to the length your acting as if its a major scientiffic breakthrough its called a basic understanding about meeting requietments for assignments.
I remember my friend tested to go to a charter school, and it turned out the computer program just counted how many big words you used.
Huh?!! Why does this video didn't get viral?
I’m hoping they remove the multiple choice questions once they find the correlation between right answers and your score.
This is why a word limit is important. It focuses you to write quality over quantity.
Of course, the longer the test is the more acurate it is, 10 questions is accurate within 10% of your actual score, 100 questions is within 1% and 200 is within .5
From my experience they weren’t even real essays. It would be another essay that the school board made up.
You would be tasked with writing an essay (not a response essay, that would make too much sense.) The essay would be breaking down the made up essay. Writing down the various arguments and how the author is trying to convince you or what they’re writing.
Basically they asked you to grade an essay with another essay.
And one of the essays I was tasked with was one that tried to argue why high school should start later. It can’t be a coincidence that they specifically asked not to respond to it.
The reason for this is that people who wright longer essays are the ones that care, so the essays are better
They just got rid of it but it hasn't mattered for years already. colleges haven't cared about it and students haven't had to submit it for a bunch of years. definitely sucks that they actually mattered before though
You can fit more detailed points in a longer essay..
This could be easily solved by having a word count min and max . Eg: 800-1000 words
Writing long is a skill that needs to be developed then undeveloped. You need to learn how to think about something down to all the tiny details, and forcing yourself to write 5 pages on a 2 page subject will help you find out just how much can really be said-if you’re not padding it with redundancy and gibberish, which is an easy shortcut when you’re just focused on the page limit.
But later you have to learn to cut the fluff. How do you identify fluff and the most important pieces that are necessary to tie it together? With that practice in writing everything. Sure you could write some decent points the first time without the long form practice, but one of those marks of an expert is finding the crucial detail that makes everything fit together right and that detail is often hard to articulate when you write short the first time.
I’m honestly glad they got rid of the essay portion. It’s honestly so frustrating to write a prompt with such detail and effort after taking a really long, extensive test.
Honestly I always do a double take when people talk about SATs because usually it's Americans complaining. I'm from the UK. SATs here are the exams you take in year 6 (age 10-11) before leaving primary school. They decide which class you start in for like English, maths and science in secondary school. That's literally it lol
Fairly significant difference o.o
This is true unless you do economics A-level in the uk where most of the time making an essay long is a bad idea as you have a greater chance to get something wrong and if you get one thing wrong you can lose all the marks even if the rest of it is perfect it happened to me once when I was talking about price elasticity of supply and at the very end I accidentally wrote price elasticity of demand safe to say I got 0 on the paragraph
One time i wrote a beautiful first two paragraphs of a science project then wrote a bunch of random shit and made it over 20 pages and my teacher personally came up to me and said she was very impressed and gave me an extra point and i was like oh thank when i knew damn well she didn’t read it
My biology teacher HATED long essays. He continuously told us to get straight to the point and not to add bullshit to things that could be said in three sentences or less. Thing is, I learned the most from his class than any other class I took in highschool. Thank you Mr. Frist you’re the best 🫡
I would want to know the variation all the way down. The faster writers had more chance to go into depth.
Yeah this was a known thing for a while. All SAT prep courses taught people to simply "keep writing till you run out of space or time is up"
Maybe this would be a good case study for people misunderstanding correlation vs causation.
A correlative graph does NOT prove the causation argument that work is graded based on length. It is entirely possible both the length and quality of work are increased by high achieving students who put in more effort into their essay than others who just wanted it done faster and easier.
I wrote giberish for the last 2 paragraphs just reiterating the first one in slightly different wording got a great score, get the feeling people grading these tests are a lil overworked and dont actually read them
There were actually so many SATs at one point in my county hired 3rd party people to grade the SAT there were even ads on Craigslist for the job.
I put a lot of effort into my (relatively short) SAT Essay (which I took only a few weeks ago) and it absolutely TANKED my score in comparison to the last one I took (without an essay)
I'd like to mention that I typically do quite well on essays in general, so I doubt it's the overall quality that was a concern...
I do this is exams too, when ever I want to make an essay I always make my essays longer hoping I get a higher grade, and it works
Oh man it's been a long time but I was slightly stoned and rambled on forever writing about Kofi Annan. I don't remember much of that day but I remember writing until both of my hands were cramped. I got a nearly perfect score. My only previous knowledge of Mr. Annan was a single article I read in Foreign Affairs...
So happy my state still requires them 🙃
Ive been using this shit since the 2nd grade. I always found that if its longer or appears longer it gets the better grade regardless of the effort i put into it.
To people talking about the 14 year old doing studies: studies like this are probably a bit easier than you would expect. It wouldn't be too difficult if this was a project for his statistics class and had help from his teacher doing this. (But to his credit this would still demand a lot of data gathering and analysis.)
Or maybe a science fair project but to be honest i don't know anything about those.
Yep I had to write an essay for my SAT and it was the hardest part. I have no doubt it brought down my score.
So glad I took the SAT before the essay was a thing
After just doing a final essay exam this scares me
As my liturature teacher said: a long essay doesn't mean it's a good essay, but a good essay is almost always long, because that indicate better depth.
But yeah, basing your conclusion just on the coroleration is not a good way to come up w a conclusion