Wing "vapour" and fuel dumping
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- In this video I will be explaining those curious white trails that you sometimes can see behind an aircraft. Are the pilots dumping fuel during the approach or is there something else happening?
When DO pilot dump fuel?
Stay tuned for the whole video in order to find out the answer and make sure to download the FREE "Mentour Aviation" app and join the discussions afterwards.
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Sire Mentour,
As a physicist, I knew exactly what causes the vapor trails, but just could not verbalize it like you. Your analogy of opening a soda pop should really help the layperson understand pressure differentials.
Thank a million Sir!
Alex Sullivan
I've wondered what that "vapor cloud" was that surrounded supersonic aircraft. I searched and found out via Wiki, but your, more scientific explanation, filled in the details beautifully. Thanks. Pressure differential = weather changes :)
Years ago when I was on a flight into Dublin I saw this stream of what I was convinced was fuel leaking from the wing as we came into land at night. I reported it to one of the air hostesses quietly after we landed so as not to let any passangers who may be a nervous flyer overhear. She asked me to wait until all the other passangers had disembarked so I could describe what I saw to the captain, which I did. He listened to what I described and politely said 'thank you'.
After watching your explanation video. ..... boy do I feel like an idiot now ! ! !
Hey, what if that was an actual leak? It seems like the flight attendant wasn't sure about that, that's why they asked you to tell the captain. I guess he wasn't worried but probably checked that anyway :)
The intention was only out of concern for safety, so I'm sure that the flight attendant and the pilot had a chuckle about it afterwards but I'm sure that they were happy that a passenger thought it was important enough to notify them so that they could ensure that there was actually no problem.
You did a great job telling the captain. Sometimes pilots might not notice insignificant fuel leak it if it happens closer to the landing. By testimonies of passenger-eyewitnesses some technical problems might be figured out and reported to engineers later to check closely. So thank you for not brushing it off. You probably heard about Hawaiian airline accident, where a huge top part of the fuselage was ripped off in the mid-air. Guess what, one of the passengers during a boarding session actually noticed a small defect of fuselage, but decided not to tell anyone. That did not end well for some people on board. By telling the captain, she would have managed to have the aircraft checked.
LOVE the more technical podcasts!!!! I always want to know why this or that is happening. Thanks again Mentour!! Keep em coming!
Mentour explains it better, I think Captain Joe gets a bit too technically detailed at times?
Do pilots dump passengers sometimes?
hahaha
yeah bro for sure !!!
7Cz4&eWEuaWd`c}/ yes, if the captain, PIC pilot in command, feels he/she/they are a threat to the safety of the flight, this or these individuals may be taken off the aircraft by law enforcement officials for a wide variety of reasons
Yep, it's a procedure called skydiving.
Well, united does
Sometimes, one would wish that!
only recently came to your channel and i have to say you are great and really make me see aviation in a whole new light. thank you so much
Great channel, Captain! Technical podcasts are awesome for aviation enthusiasts! Thanks a lot and keep up the great work!
Totally! And I am wondering now… remember that 767 belly landing at Warsaw Chopin airport in 2011 by captain Wrona? Some ppl on the tv were saying that they circled above the airport for about an hour because 767 also can't dump fuel and the crew wanted to land with as little as possible in case of fire. @Mentour Pilot do you think that might be the case or is that made up?
"We like fuel. Fuel helps us." - Alright, got it now. :D
I could listen to this guy all day
sounds gay
That's why I clap my hands every single time I land, because of you Mentour Pilot
Clear and easy understandable explanation with comprehensive and technically precise content - thank you very much!
What do you think about chemical trails? Theme of this suspicion and theory of it is getting popularity now among conspirology's men.
Great explanation and the best about water condensation under lower pressure from the the flaps.
You are one of the best teacher, you teach like, all doubt in mind clear, there is no need to cross question. Thankyou
I love all these facts you come with. They just make me more eager to become a pilot
Yes, Kwazi Donsta! RUclips "Captain Joe" used the term "adiabatic cooling". Love watching both these guys!
You can see contrails on Formula 1 cars as well.
BHRxRACER - Yep. I was just about to make that point - I'm glad I looked down the Comments first! You used to see it a lot in qualifying when everybody was running at 100% on a wet track. Looks fantastic!
The conspiracy 'fuel dump/chem-trail' morons will now be frantically trying to prove that F1 cars are dumping fuel to gain an advantage by blinding the drivers behind them, making it necessary to deploy the Safety Car, allowing them to make an extra tyre stop and stock up on magic beans... Sigh. ;-)
Your production quality is great and has improved alot!
You are really great at describing everything simple and understandable. New subscriber here 👍🏻😄
My coolest encounter with capper trails was probably taking off in a Cessna 172. As I pushed full power, vapor trails came off the propeller tips and spiraled back! Haven’t seen that since.
Very neat & simple explanation which is very rare scenario captain & please go ahead with more videos
Loved the way you explained it captain
Whoa whoa.. Even capt Joe released a video just now on same topic...dumping fuel...
If I remember correctly from my high school geography when we covered weather (adiabatic lapse rates and the like; some 30+ years ago for me, LOL), in simplest terms the ability of air to carry water vapour without condensation occurring (usually seen as clouds) is a function of temperature.
The warmer the air, the more water it can 'carry'.
At some point the amount of water in the air can exceed the air's capacity to carry it, and condensation will occur.
As you've said, this process when landing/taking off is an artificial lowering of the temperature in a very specific location. If that lowered temperature can no longer 'carry' the water, condensation will occur and thus become visible. In some ways, you're building your own 'cloud'.
Of course you can see this even under normal flight at high altitude where that pressure difference above the wing at normal flight configuration can cause condensation, hence the 'infamous' con-trails.
Fun vid, poked my memory somewhat.
;-p
p.s. it's a little more complicated, of course, but I think this was a reasonable summary in basic terms.
Great video and the way you explained wings water and thank you for your answer on everything..
+Brenda Proffitt Great to hear that you liked it!
Very informative. cheers
Adelaide, Australia
Thanks for the video Mentour Pilot. As far as I can remember from high school physics; moisture rate in the air depends on the pressure of the environment. (It also depends on the temperature, but this is not the case for this example). Higher the pressure provides more water molecules to dissolve in the air. Top side of the wing causes the pressure reduction, as a result of this, lower pressured air cannot hold the water molecules as dissolved state. This phenomenon forms water molecules as small droplets, and then they can be seen as a mist formation. I hope I am not missing something.
Excellent. Captain Joe is a great guy too. I like both channels. Airbus vs Boeing. Competition works. :-)
Great video!! really informative!!
You and captain Joe really should make a video together!! It would be great!!
+Saras Keshav You never know what might happen 😉
Great vid!! Like the vids in the cockpit
+Camster Great to hear!
Haha joe just uploaded the same video PERFECT timing peter
+ΙΩΑΝΝΗΣ ΛΙΑΡΟΣ I know 😥 We have to start coordinating better.
Mentour Pilot We would like to see a collaboration video!
Great video, Mentour! Always happy to see an upload from you
I can’t believe I am hooked on this channel I don’t even like flying
Well done, sir. If you haven't done so already, you might consider making a video about contrails, too. Maybe clear it up for the chemtrail conspiracy people.
Love these technical discussions. Hey everyone. Consider joining as a Patron as I did. A couple dollars/euros a month, times many is the "fuel" that makes this channel possible.
Hello mentour I commented on ur last vid asking if u could do a vlog from ur first alarm until u get home in the night or whenever it would be a great video for us fans to know the day to day life
You mentioned the dew point in this video. If you haven't already, that'd be a nice topic for a video.
Hälsningar från Lidingö. :-)
Your RUclips videos are fantastic! Really enjoy them...
Yes, that actually DOES answer my question as to WHY every plane landing at the airport was dumping fuel. lol Answer is that they were not. Excellent!
Love the technical details. Thanks, Mentor!
Very, very rarely do I have an "absolutely fantastic" day. Maybe once in 2016.
How about in 2020?
A few years ago, I learned that some B757 have the fuel jettison system. That was a shocker for me, because all of the 757 aircraft I worked on did not have the fuel jettison capacity.
This is a good video for the "chemtrails people"!
loved it... again... i'm a really big fan... sir!!!
keep up the good work!!!
+Zahra Khan Thank You!!
If I’m not mistaken, It’s a release of gaseous CO2 in immediate space above the opening of a coke can caused by the rapid, yet brief pressure differential, and not condensation of water vapor
Hi Mentor Pilot. Thanks for this podcast. Well done! Good coverage.
I also watch Captain Joe's videos. I like your podcast because it has more technical content. I like Capt. Joe's because of his style. I think both of you are doing the industry a good service.
But I do come away from a Capt. Joe video wanting more or feeling like I need to add something to his. I alway feel he has skipped over something. But I have never found Capt. Joe to put anything out that is wrong; just not quite enough for this Aeronautical Engineer of 30 years. So keep up the good work and thanks - to both of you.
p.s. I couldn't help noticing the other difference. You are in a Boeing product. What a great contrast.
Thank you for your input, Sir. Very informative and professional.
Hello cpt Mentour! I would like to ask you a question: have you ever been in an emergency land from a mechanical failure, like engine fire or something like that? And if yes how did you feel? Was that really scary? Keep up the amazing videos, we really love them and learn many things from you. Greetings from Greece
Hi I have just subscribed to your channel. Fair play to YOU poilets I have huge respect for you all you do an amazing job I can only imagine how tough of a job it is to fly such a beautiful and huge machine.Well done.
I subscribed! I looked forward for your answer about why it is called a "cockpit".
It's my understanding that on the heavy aircraft, which are supposed to dump fuel, is that they can land safely at full takeoff weight, but the plane is then grounded until it is carefully inspected...so something you don't want to do, but you can do.
Bob Levy They are not supposed to dump fuel, the amount is calulated before fueling the aircraft. But yes, they can land overweight, then it needs an overweight inspection. There is also something called "hard landing inspection" that also might apply after an overweight landing.
Come to Glasgow Airport, you'll see plenty of the contrails with all the moisture here 😂😂
Captain Joe just uploaded a video on the same topic!
Kwazi Donsta yeah...
That happened suspiciously frequently recently. :)
However I think that's wonderful. I can just sit and wonder what collaborations may (or may not? Just coincidence?) there be heading our way. Also I find it sad how everybody here talks about Captain Joe, but the other way round, hardly anyone ever talks about Mentour. Both of them are absolutely top notch, it seems kind of unfair.
yeah i just saw his video
Kwazi Donsta coincidence? Maybe
I call myself a fan of Mentor Pilot.
Therefore I will NOT mention other competitors in his chat,
nor will I care if some other guy did a similar video on a similar subject.
I enjoy Mentor Pilot for who he is and the content he puts up on YT.
It's out of respect for MP that I say this, and besides I think it's good form too.
Thank you! I have the greatest respect for Joe though.
I didn't know that there was a maximum landing weight. Very interesting. As far as I know fuel dumping is useful when the is a problem with the landing gear. In that situation is better the fuel tanks to be empty in case they collide with the runway during landing.
The 737 doesn't have fuel dumping system. What happens in the case of landing gear problems? Does the plane has to make circles for hours until the fuel tanks are emptied?
Yep all aircraft have a max landing weight, of course that weight is pretty conservative. Like the Qantas A380 that had to land severely overweight after an engine failure.
You are correct that if a gear failure or malfunction occurred, theres no risk to the aircrafts flight capability, so the crew would just circle and burn off as much fuel as needed. If the aircraft lacked the ability to dump it. This was the case with the Jet Blue flight that had a broken nose gear. No harm really if it stays up longer.
"fuel tanks to be empty " that would mean no fuel for the engine, that would mean reduced speed, that would mean staling and that would cause a serious accident. Belly landing happens sometimes, but they do have fuel in the tanks.
@ not completely, just enough to go around 1 or 2 times and land
@@n3on_face659 still if we are worried about the tank getting damaged that could cause a pretty bad fire
Captain Joe has just uploaded a video on basically the same subject! Just 10 minutes ago! 😁
Coincidence or Collaboration?
+Edward Cameron Coincidence 😂😂😂😂
Well done
I asked about condensation thing!
Never was a mystery to me as part of the layperson traveling public.
But then, since i live in a coastal city (San Diego, California) and most of my flights have been early morning departures and late arrivals home, early morning and night time low dew points are common and regular occurrences.
Amazing information sir.
Thank you, I'm already looking forward to the next video from your hand. Suggestion to take part: How do you know if the landing gear did not get too a big hit? Sometimes you see a landing, also with a very big angle, that you are surprised that it does not break. Perhaps its is now internally badly damaged, but you can not see it simple on to the outside. How can you really trust it now after it has had a bad blow? The next crew never knows for sure whether the airplane has been seriously abused and next breaks at the slightest stress Off course you can give it a eye inspection but is that enough?
Dutch Challenge the landing gear is actually a very tough piece of kit. On the A320, overweight landings are approved since her mxtow and mxldgwt are very close. yet, if the landing is exceptionally hard, (rare occurrence but does happen) an inspection would be perforned to insure structural integrity.
Thank you very much for your answer ..
Id imagine that if a particularly hard landing occurred, the crew would make note of it and it would be checked out before the next flight. As mentioned, landing gear are actually pretty tough and as best I can tell are pretty hard to break or damage.
Mentourpilot has a video on hard landings. If the pilot feels like he landed too hard, they'll write it up. Also, the aircraft has a sensor that sends a signal to the maintenance offive if the landing exceeds a certain G-force. At that point, a mechanic will go out and inspect the landing gear. Also, the crew visually inspects the landing gear during their walkaround, and reports any problems. I've seen maintenance roll out to replace wheels all the time. And personally for me, as a fueler, I give the plane a quick inspection while I'm walking up and fueling to check for leaks, or anything that looks out of place.
I think I have seen/read of a A380 pilot landing overweight in Sweden or Norway after a passenger emergency, saying that he preferred to do that than dealing with a dumping. He also mentioned that the closest usable airport at the time of the incident was Moscow (I guess the perk of big planes is that you can keep the list of diversion runways in your head), but he just though the passenger would have a better health care more in the west (which imply that he was not that much overweight when landing).
Thanks for the great video!
Absolutely fantastic video, Mentour! Thank you! And Happy birthday in advance;)
Thank you Mentour Pilot! Great video as always! With regard to con-trails on approach, if you tune into the airport ATIS channel you can hear the meteorologists mention "DEW POINT 6" etc... does this number effect the formation of contrails and also does dew-point effect your engine performance.
+Kevy Elyod Hi! The split between temperature and dew-point tells you how likely it is that fog will form. The closer it is between temp-dew point, the more moisture in the air.
Kind of, yes. As MenTour Pilot mentioned, that also depends on the temperature. The bigger the difference between the temperature and dew point, the more likely you are to see vapor trails! The temp-dew point spread also tells us some other things about the local weather.
Sure! I've seen many people that, judged on how and what car they drive, they must just LOVE refuelling!
I'm new to your videos.
Absolutely love them
I think fuel dumping systems are available only on long-haul planes, such as B747, B777, A380, A330. Narrow-body jets such as B737 and A320 cannot jettison fuel.
I went through that as a passenger once. The pilot had to turn back right at the start of a 3-hour flight with the A320 because oil from one of the engines contaminated the cabin air. He had to fly low and slow for a long time on one engine to burn fuel because the plane was too heavy to land.
Although captain Joe uploaded the same topic of a video i still watch both of your vids :-)
Congratulations for the channel. I am fueler in lanzarote. Can you say if when the center tank is empty the plane start with the wings tanks automatic or manual. Thanks. Sorry about my English
It's automatic. Fuel transfer pumps and valves are manual.
I love these kind of videos :)
I wonder if back in the days there was more fuel dumping due to "minor" emergencies but nowadays it has to be much more compellling reason to do so. Back in the days of 1970s of "gas washdowns" done by firefighters using water hose to wash spilled gasoline and oil from car crashes off the road.
ah ha! just came back from a trip with A380 and was curious about the white stream of vapor from the wing.
congratulations mentour pilot! I enjoyed your videos very much.
by the way, my "like" to this video was # "1k"
👍😎👉✈
Love the technical vids!
Your vidoes are exceptional ... :)
I know all that but it is still fun to tell the other passenger that this how they empty the lavatories.
Very interesting explination, I've always wonder how condensation forms on the wings at low altitudes!
You can see a Ryanair 737 circling to burn fuel (or waiting to be allocated a landing slot?) on flightradar24. It left Stanstead at 08:07 on Friday and diverted to East Midlands when a wheel fell off the front landing gear on takeoff. It circled just South of Ipswich.
thanks for the info
Much more interesting condensation is in the low pressure area in front of the fan as the power is applied for takeoff.
True! You don’t see it very often, but it’s cool when you do.
Wow this is very interesting and fun to watch!!
Not sure if this is where I ask questions to be answered in future videos but here goes anyway. Why are the in-flight entertainment systems not switched on until quite a while after the aircraft takes off and why are they shut down 20 minutes (or more) before the aircraft lands? Also, when we are stuck sitting in a plane on the ground for long periods (eg: an hour or more while they sort out some problem) why can't they be switched on at least temporarily until the aircraft is ready to depart? Thanks.
As usual a joy to listen to, very informative and natural. Any chance you want to fly my to Australia in November?
me... not my...
Captain Joe ust published his video on the SAME topic!!!?!?!!?!
Absolutely fantastic! :)
Thank you. I grew up thinking that planes dumped fuel every time they landed for safety reasons.
Thank you but i wanna ask you have ever seen problem in the air? And what do you think when you get problem while you are flying.
I wish you the best.
Captain Joe uploaded a video on the same topic again a bit earlier than you. Not the first time. Maybe they are friends? maybe someone is a copycat? Or pure coincidence? who knows...
But it is always nice to see two different view on it...
thephantom1492 They were uploaded so close together that they can't possibly have copied the topic from each other. Unless they are bugging each other's computers. ;-)
Or they take their idea from the same place or something, it is not the first time it happened, so they get their idea from the same persons, from the same place, or they know each others...
I always thought that the condensation forms because of the rise in pressure along the leading edges of the plane, i.e. the air is squeezed by the fast traveling aircraft and the moisture thus condenses.
Mariusz Breabăn No. condensation is caused by the temperature drop, that occurs when the pressure drops over the wing as a result of creating lift.
Your videos really help me to understand how planes work and what I need to fullfill my dream to become a pilot..but I have a question.. how many buttons/switches are in the cockpit of a boeing 737? They look really confusing at first so I just started wondering also how many of them are used every flight! Thank you for your amazing videos and keep up the good work! I am looking forward to your response.
I have a PPL, I fly Cessna 172’s and various Piper aircraft. If I deem a passenger to be anything I consider “unruly” (wether on the ground in general or in flight) they are “permitted” to sit on the wing and dangle their feet for what I describe to them as “a refreshing, cool breeze.” This is only done with an airspeed of at least: 100 Kts., an altitude of 5,000 AGL and air temp of >0°C. Come fly with me...
Could it be that the here given explanation for the sudden condensation is a little bit wrong? Imo it might be that it is not the temperature that lowers leading to condensation but in fact rather the higher pressure below the wings causing this effect?
I think that the higher pressure under the wing might be compressing the gas so strongly that the partial pressure of the water vapour increases above the dew point line... What do you guys think?
Light refined jet fuel can quickly evaporate and dissipate (dissolve? disperse?), but aren't there some residues left in environment?
Wouldn't you also want to dump fuel in situations where you expect to crash land (landing gear broken, no proper airport available,...) or land in water to reduce the risk of fire or make the plane lighter?
Maybe but chances are that we have to prioritize other things in those situations.
Are you and Captain Joe cooperateing or competeting?
+Erlend Garshol Neither. We have no contact, we just seem to think alike.
There is no "competing" on RUclips.
Another great video. Thank you. This also brings up another great question.
Why is the maximum Landing weight significantly less than the maximum takeoff weight?
Mathew McLean Because you need more runway for landing than take off
Great question! This is mostly just an issue for very large planes, like the 767, A330, and 747.
It’s about weight savings and practicality. 99.9% of the time, big planes are landing with relatively little fuel left in the tanks. In fact, MLW is set way heavier than this “normal” landing weight! It’s just not practical to strengthen the gear and structure of the airframe any more because the extra weight would offset how much fuel the plane can carry, and therefor its range.
You and captain joe should create a video together
It has happened to me more than 4 times. Driving in mid Missouri my car was covered with jet fuel and smelling very badly of it. Nothing around except grass and cows. It had to be from an aircraft. Back to the car wash.
Thumbs up for no initial ad plug
+Koppa Dasao :)
Nice video...
Mentour can u talk about holding pattern the teardrop direct parallel?
pls
Can you please make a video about how much healthy do we need to be for becoming an pilot. Can we become if we have one kidney or any small disease which is not at all dangerous? I hope you'll reply.