HIGH or LOW wings, what difference does it make?!
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- Опубликовано: 20 дек 2018
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Why do some aircraft have the wings mounted on top of the fuselage and others at the bottom? Whats up with those strange upwards and downwards angles on larger jet aircraft?
These are some of the questions I will help answering in this episode. I will also be discussing which type is better or worse for your flight training so make sure that you stay tuned throughout the whole video
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I want to send a special thank you to the featured video in todays episode. Please use the links below to see the videos in full length:
SchmidProductions (AN225 Takeoff)
• Antonov-225 "Mriya" AM...
TheHDAviation (Dash Q400 takeoff)
• Air Canada Express Das...
Bahemian Pilot06 (View from Cessna)
• Cessna 172| Flying Gir...
Philip Mortimer (View from Piper)
• Snetterton Racetrack A...
Roald Jungard (Engine replacement B737)
• SAS - B737, Engine rep...
AiirSource Military (Hercules landing on sand)
• C-130J Makes SPECTACUL...
So amused at watching Patxi play with his toy! Love it when he retrieves it after dropping it!
That dog is so adorable!
That was a spoiler
Interesting from a pilots point of view, but let me tell you from an engineering point of view. First, the reason larger multi-engine turboprop plans usually have high wing is simply for propeller ground clearance. Also less chance of ingesting junk into engines in dirt fields. The Bigger the prop the better. On a plane like a 737 the wing is mounted low because it is simpler and lighter. It only has one stiff frame on the bottom, the top of the plane is just basically a skin. When you have a heavier cargo plane it needs a much stronger frame on both the bottom and top of the fuselage. If the 737 had a wing on top it would be much heavier. A plane with a high wing can also take-off at a higher rate with a heavy load it has to do with the wing being out of ground effect faster and actually going in clean air once it rotates. Also some planes like the C4, An224, B52 has long droppy high wings for another reason. The wings are so heavily loaded with fuel that they drop on the ground, once they are at the flight speed, the wings will bend up to be straight. So at the end of the day, if you need a plane that can handle rough strips, and land on a dime, a high wing is better. Low wings are cheaper to build, lighter, smaller landing gear etc... The high wing cargo plane is a pickup truck, the low wing is a unibody SUV. BTW, there is Center of Mass, Center of Lift issues also, the high wing is more controllable. All planes are compromises and you just can't compare so simply. Which is best?, a third option, wing in the center, like a fighter plane. But that makes cargo capacity a problem. but gives you a better balance between COM, COL. But honestly, people won't care unless you're in a warplane or an acrobatic plane.
You are right, there are pros and cons to all of the designs, and it all depends on the purpose of the craft.
Thank you for the explanation. Do you think that a high wing aircraft that could use two very large engines would have a lower cost over time than a low wing with four engines? From what you described, the cost to build it would be higher. With two fewer engines, perhaps the operating cost would be lower.
I can't focus on main topic of this film because your dog is so cute hahha
Hahaha!
IKR so cute!!
He's fast becoming the star of the show
@@Sy-T007
I think he is either jealous of Petter or wants Petter's attention!
@keith moore
It's amazing how that works! Just like my cat who seems to know when I am working on my computer needing to finish a project and her desire to show affection for my keyboard and I simultaneously!
Comments about wings: 0
Comments about dog: 1,000,000,000,00...
🤔
THANKYOU
And comments about comments about comments about wings... 1
@Tim Oosterom keep it up and soon the universe is gonna implode on us
I love the name of the dog
@Tim Oosterom a comment about a comment about a comment about a comment about comments about the dog.
Can we have a video of just your puppy playing around?
Tired of cat videos? 🤤
MENTOUR WE NEED THIS
@@carlosmmvidal Not enough
Earth is a sphere...
He lacks a puppy type rating to take that on :D
Hope they can successfully rebuild the AN225 using the 2nd body😪
It won't happen unless it is gonna be USA or Germany/France. There is no such a thing as Russian or Ukrainian aviation industry. All they have have been desined and prototyped in USSR. Both Russia and Ukraine failed miserably in terms of technical and technological progress. That's why there has been a huge "brain drain" from both countries.
Yes!!!
Puppy is back again!
These videos are not complete without puppy.
@3:26 when you realize that no action you can take, will prevent you from loosing this toy
Hahaha! Pretty awesome
On a small turbo prop plane a high wing gives the propellers more ground clearance.
Exactly
Well the turboprop engines could be mountet ABOVE the wings, increasing ground clearance.
@@johnnycruiser2846 But then you would lose some lift generated by the prop wash over the wings. and the centre of thrust would be well above the fuselage and trying to push the nose down.
No need for fuel pumps either, gravity will do the work. Less complexity and maintenance saves money ;)
Mentour Dog is today's co-pilot. A bit distracted, not quite ready for takeoff ✈
San Bruno Beacon
I guess you'd say it's NOT a "sterile cockpit"...hahaa.
‘Disturbance’ in the cockpit. Of the jumpy, furry type
@@philippal8666 A good disturbance
Today in Ukraine we are celebrating Birthday of our baby - Antonov-225, she is 30 years old. So, thank you for gift! :)
Excellent! She is a marvel of engineering!
I was going to mention this as well but you were faster!
Слава Україні
Soviet engineer, takes shot of vodka...flip the wings blyat, roll problem is no more problem.
I’ve seen the 225 in person a few times here in Houston... absolutely wonderful machine 🛫👍🏼👍🏼
8:52 that look on your face is like, "this dog is driving me crazy, but it is good for views so I have to leave her be!
I like it a lot how you used the RC plane as an Example, Well done!!
I really enjoy how well you explain things. I'm no pilot, just someone curious about how things work. In fact, your videos really make me feel better about flying.
PH, your knowledge of aircraft design is exceptional, especially for a pilot. You say in this video "---you get a feel for the kinds of things you gone'a have to learn if you want to become a pilot." Well, I agree all pilots should learn those kinds of things. And I hope that is where the profession has gone since my last flight in the cockpit of the DC-9. But I have to say, most of my pilot buddies really didn't understand this level of detail about the design of an aircraft (any aircraft). And once more, their GAS gauge (give a shit) was pretty low about this. Their knowledge was super at the procedures, great at normal operations of the type equipment they flew, medium at knowing the systems and their inter-relationships and poor at understanding why an aircraft was designed that way. Most of my pilot friends learned what they needed from "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators" to pass their tests and then never worried about that stuff again.
That is why I left the cockpit and became an Aero Engineer. I loved this stuff and wanted to influence the reason why an airplane can do what it does. I hope my input makes it so the pilots can fly safely without worrying about the why's of an airplane.
Great comment. I have seen the exact same phenomenon with fellow pilots. Many if not most know the bare minimum that was necessary to pass written exams. Come on, folks, this the technology you chose to embrace. A little more knowledge won't hurt.
Beautiful comment
Somebody is reading my mind... Great comment
You deserve props for speaking so long and not stopping to play with that cutie. I couldn't have resisted.
Apparently the WW2 Liberator bomber (B-24) had a high wing to avoid the need to put a main spar transversely throughout the fuselage to support wings in the mid-position. This meant more room in the fuselage for a bigger bomb load.
Good doggy
Priceless.
Happy to see the alpha male around, and really enjoying that there is attention and interaction.
cute
same hair color, too.
7:29
Interesting info, but man, that doggy is stealing my heart !
You're amazingly focused despite all canine interruptions! :)
Happy holiday season!
I just can’t take my eyes off that dog, I would know, I have two of those little fluff balls.
That ^*#%@ dog is too distracting.
They are pretty adorable.
Mentour Pilot tbh most dogs are adorable :)
What race is that ?
I am guessing the dog is there for a purphose :)
Started watching the video for aviation information, continued watching because of the puppy
Happiness is finding a very complete channel about airplanes with a lot of information, months before your first flight :)
We call the thicker skins near the props on the turboprop aircraft "ding" plates. But if you have ever sat next the ding plates when the prop sheds ice, you'd call them BAM! plates or WTF! plates. It'll make you jump even though you are sitting.
oh the puppy .... by the way intressting topic :)
time 0:15
Thanks for this explanation. I always thought the anhedral wings really gave the C-5, An-124, etc. that really “heavy” look. Have a very Merry Christmas.
Can you do a video on firefighting air tankers? Many times the stress loads on their wings exceeded the lifetime stress loads in a single dump. A decade ago the firefighting community was using orphaned military aircraft and the wings were ripping off of them because of prior undocumented lifetime stress loads. The military does not release any data on its aircraft because of possible classified missions. Now they are using DC-10'S and 747's that fly close to the speed of sound fully loaded. It would be cool to get your opinions on these fixed and rotary wing aircraft.
Hi Mentour. In your previous video someone requested that you cover high wing vs low wing, you said "stay tuned", and I predicted that you were going to get it wrong. I almost had to eat my shoes, and I would have done it with a lot of satisfaction (this is one of the times where I would have loved to be wrong). Let me say that you did a great job, this is the best discussion I've seen on the high wing vs low wing question, out of highly technical aerodynamics textbooks for engineers. Visibility, construction, saying that to learn to fly it was irrelevant and there were other much more important questions, minimizing the difference in handling and mentioned just a minor difference with the ground effect, talking about construction reasons, operating reasons (maintenance, loading of proper cargo and self-unloading cargo, prop clearance). Spot on. I was really impressed. Then you started to talk about stability and I said "there we go". But no, you were spot-on again talking about angle of attack, sideslip, and how dihedral and flow around the fuselage affected the angle of attack in each wing and each configuration (high vs low wing). Perhaps, since you went so far, I would have mentioned how the swept wing also creates a dihedral effect, but that's just tiny optional detail. I was already taking out my shoes to eat them with pleasure and then you did it. Pendulum effect. That is a myth, a very common one, one included even in many books for pilots, but still a myth (you will not find it in any aeronautical engineering book, except that a few will debunk it). No matter if the weight is high or low, it always passes through the center of gravity and hence has zero moment about the CG. You mentioned "pendulum effect, keel effect" which sounded a lot like a boat. But the situation is totally different. When a ship rolls in is submerging more body in a denser fluid (water) than the opposite side where more body goes into the less dense air (compared with the water). An immersed submarine with neutral buoyancy can also have have a keel effect, because if the center of buoyancy is above the center of gravity, when it tilts the weight and buoyancy force will still be parallel (vertical) but acting not on the same line but in parallel lines, thus creating a restoring moment.. Buoyancy point always up, in a ship or submarine.. A plane (and lift in particular) is different. The pendulum effect is sometimes explained (wrongly) with the lift being above the center of mass and visualizing the airplane as if it was hanging from a nail in the center of the wing (seen from the front), but this example is wrong because the force on the nail will always point up no matter how much you tilt the cardboard silhouette plane seen from the front. But the real lift is, by definition, perpendicular to the wings. So if you have the same lift in both wings the lift will pass through the center of gravity and will make no moment either, and if you have different lift in both wings (for example due to dihedral + sideslip) then you will have a rolling moment which is independent of the location of the wing (independent for the pendulum effect, not for the flow around the body) and even independent of the bank angle (you can have sideslip with the wings level). The only thing remotely resembling a pendulum effect that adds positive roll stability in a high and negative in a low wing is that in a high wing the drag will typically be above the CG, and in a sideslip a component of that drag will be sideways so will try to roll the plane opposite to the sideslip, and the contrary will happen in a low wing. All in all, as I said, a great video and 99% spot-on with things that are normally overlooked, not known, or just gotten wrong about the high wing vs low wing question. Just delete the pendulum /keel effect from your mind.
I just edited my comment above because I wrongly said that the keel effect doesn't apply to submarines. It does and I corrected the comment accordingly.
I like to say, high vs. low wing is a bit like front vs. rear wheel drive in a car: A trade-off between easy, forgiving and sporty, agile, handling, but with higher risk of the rear breaking out. Add to that the either front or rear mounted engine and you have SOMEWHAT of an analogy to dyhedral and anhedral effect.
Very good comparison!
Maybe snow and ice = FOD on unimproved runways too?
Not really. Snow and ice is snow and ice. FOD is objects lying on the ground, it's basically the same whether you're in a car, plane, train... @@paulmoir4452
I wasn't clear, but I was trying to extend the analogy. It was a stupid point, so please forget about it.
Mikosch. I think I can see what you’re saying, that front drive cars are positively stable under power as the force is ahead of the centre of mass, and that dihedral effect gives positive roll stability, but I don’t agree that this is due to wing position. Overall dihedral effect is dependent on dihedral angle, wing position, net moment of the lateral area above the centre of mass (tail etc) and wing sweep and so we can’t simply say a high wing is intrinsically more stable in roll as there is far more to consider. Generally all aircraft of a given type are designed to have similar roll stability regardless of wing position, whereas rear drive cars are intrinsically unstable under power. Likewise, for similar reasons, trailers are intrinsically unstable when their unpowered wheels (drag) are ahead of the centre of mass and there is no load on the towing bar.
This was one of the most enlightening videos about aerodynamics and its practical use i have ever watched.
Thank You.
Captain you are amazing. You make flying look so easy. Thanks for your service in the air to keep us safe, and for that cute little dog too.
It's so sad that the An-225 was destroyed.
3:29 mentourdoggo.exe not responding.
At least it recovered itself...
Hahaha! He was living the dream today!
He has a watchdog in him..
I found it very interesting. Because mentourdoggo.exe calculated that the toy will fall down if he opens his mouth. So it got caught up calculating what to do, ending with the wrong decision. To open the mouth. You can really see the "oh damnit that was not a good idea... Oopsie" on his face after the toy falls.
that was a funny moment, i thought the dog kept still because it was holding the rope by only a couple of threads, any movement would make it drop.
@@MentourPilot He tried to ask you like 6 times to please get him his toy back. But noooo too busy recording a video. Lol. That dog obviously loves you, just happier than anything to be sitting next to his human, playing with his toy. Lucky dog. Lucky owner. Great Channel M8!
That was awesome! I'm never going to be a pilot, but my interest in physics and engineering means I've picked all the low hanging fruit. I was not aware of those principals. Now I am!
Love your videos, never wanted to be a commercial pilot, but am studying for my PPL Microlights. your videos are very informative and wading through the seven textbooks I must learn, your videos actually help me understand what I`m reading. You present your videos very well, and you project yourself as an excellent teacher. Thank you.
Love when you explain so detail about physics of aerodynamics.
That dog needs his own show. Just have him wear an airplane costume and he will be ready for anything!
Another excellent video!
On a similar point, have you covered the wing sweep angle in a previous video? I always found it fascinating going through the history of it, from the right angle of the prop aircraft right through to the jet era, including the extreme sweep of Concorde!
LOVE THE DOG!!!!
a perfect costar. great tutorial too. i am not a pilot, but i find that anyone who knows their subject well, loves it, and has communication skills makes for a fun and fascinating listen.
Merry Christmas.
I read on a forum that on high wing passenger planes, overhead bin space can be limited at the place where the wings are connected to the fuselage.
That 🐶 is killing me
Hahaha
Goldendoodle
6:30 RIP Antonov An-225 Mriya
That segue into the second Brilliant ad may be the smoothest thing I have ever watched in my life.
Thank you mentour for this podcast and all the superb vlogs you made throughout 2018. Glad that I came across and subscribed to your channel and app. It is highly informative to the questions I always had in connection with aviation and at the same time it is fun to watch. Merry Christmas and a healthy and amazing new year!
Anyone else just focused on the funny dog and ceased listning? Still very nice video!
Haha I was listening to Mentour and watching the dog xD Too adorable
Man, I just theorized to some random person that the low mount on bigger aircraft helped integrate the beefier landing gear structure and housing with the wings instead of having to build an aerodynamic bulb to only serve that purpose. Turns out you didn't even mention the landing gear and handling + maintenance are the main consideration. Still happy to learn. This stuff is fascinating.
I discovered your videos recently and I gotta say, I am learning so much. You do a fantastic job explaining/ teaching your craft. Thank you
Nice of Paxti to let you keep making videos on his couch.
Lol :3
Merry Christmas for you and yours Family 🎅🎅🎅Thank you for interesting video as ever and your dog also worked very hard this time 😉😊😎
Understanding how dihedral works to make plane roll stable seems intuitive to me... but I did not know that wing sweep also contribute to roll stability. Thanks for that tidbit and all the excellent information you provide in your videos! 👍😀
2:18 Doggo being extra cute 💜🐕
I see Paxti is enjoying himself:-) Great video by the way.
Thank you! Yeah, he was living the dream today.
Great video as always, Captain!
I was wondering what you might think the development of commercial aviation will be. It seems that we are reaching a plateau of efficiency with engines and aerodynamic designs like the ones mentioned here. Is future design likely to be simply refining what exists, or are there things you know of in upcoming aircraft that will make air travel safer and/or cheaper?
Also, I saw something a few years back about a new type of ATC system under testing which was supposedly much more advanced than conventional systems. I can’t recall its name, but I was wondering what you might know about it and if it might be or already has been implemented.
Looking forward to future topics. Bon voyage!
Mentour keep up the good work! Greetings from Greece.
Much better then captain joe, every episode is so much easier to understand and your knowledge in mentoring is amazing, you sir is someone who I would want to instruct me though out my CPL course
the story with the angle of attack and the shape and position of the wings etc is mega cool/interesting, I was wondering when I was young why this is when I had to decide between different model aeroplanes/gliders with different wings. By the way, I am used to puppies, I can concentrate on your subject, no matter how much your dog is fighting with his toy ;-)
Sorry didn't hear you over the ridiculously adorable dog.
Merry Christmas to you as well Mentour! awesome video, well explained. Thank you as always!
One thing about this channel is that it showcases some very interesting things related in aviation, hats of Petter!
Great video Mentour i enjoyed it, hope you and your family have a Happy Christmas.
Thank you!
Loving the poodle, gorgeous color.
Such a great explanation on wing types and effects. Thanks so much!!
Hi captain ,I want to correct this : the reinforcement on the fuselage beside the propeller is to protect the passenger onboard in case the propeller detached from the engine and will behave like sword ,thank you
realy amazing wideo,and your dog is sooooo cute
did anyone else nod your head when he asked "does that makes sense" lmao
The subject is very well explained, thank you for that but the dog made it much more fun. Merry Christmas from Canada
That feeling when mentour pilot takes your suggestion/question and makes a video about it ☺️
Most military heavy lifters have high wings, thinking about it. I imagine it makes loading (with a ramp) easier as well.
I’m a musician but I watch every Mentour Pilot video
Pay attention in school.... so right, wish I had a tutor like him back in the day!
Yep, this was my question, so I had to watch it. Especially because when I was tired I left silly posts on his site about the length of the videos. This one was perfect -- it explained not only what I guessed was right (about maintenance and landing gear length), but also some things I was unsure about like how it affected banking and ground effect. Thanks again, although, I suspect I might not have been the only one asking that question :) The only other questions I can think of offhand involve wing design...like the advantages/disadvantages to delta wing, diamond wing, canards (which are only on military craft), etc.
Great video!
I was just thinking yesterday reading about ever increasing fan engine size and ever tighter ground clearances of the engines if a switch to high wings would make sense? Your dog wants to play!
Yes! That might well happen!
Have a great Christmas and New Year also. Thank you for all the effort you put in to the channel.
Excellent explanation! My instructor is impressed. You did a good job and we like the video.
I love that dog :) Merry Christmas!
Talking about fancy wing angles the F4 Phantom truly is the No.1
Hahaha! True!
McDonnell Douglas: let's take a brick, add huge engines, and mix every design single concept we have in our wing r&d into one and slap em on it.
But hey, it worked. One of the best and longest serving fighter aircraft ever.
Triumph of thrust over aerodynamics
@@donkraemer50 If you apply enough thrust you can fly a skyscraper to the moon.
That's just the folding part. Now WWII Corsairs, those are truly beautiful. Made that way for prop clearance with the radial engine.
That was a nice concise explanation - I knew most of the physics involved already ( although I hadn't thought about the role of the fuselage in changing the airflow in sideslip on a low wing before ) but I don't think I've heared the topic covered so well in such a short time before. Perhaps you could have covered the role of sweep *slightly* more - the diagram was fine for me, but I knew what I was looking at already :)
Great topic, love the physics aspects. The deeper.look at the engineering is just fantastic! Keep up the good work.
What a gorgeous dog.
"In order to understand this, I have to get a little more technical. [...] The first thing we're gonna talk a bout is.... Patxi."
-Mentour, 2018
Love to see Caga Tió in the background. He is a regular holiday visitor at my house in Colorado as well. Feliz Año Nuevo Capt.
BLESS YOU, for getting that detail of aerodynamics right--that roll stability is about what happens in slip. So many people, even my ground school instructor, gets that wrong.
And as others have said, you were totally upstaged by your pup.
An-225 Mria did its first flight exactly 30 years ago, 21 december of 1988! Thank you so much for releasing this video at this anniversary!
"Today Im going to be talking to you about wings" instantly thinks chicken XD
Thank You for the video, Merry Christmas dear Captain!!
This is what I learnt from the second viewing of this video, its easier and much better to balance a big plane than just add more control surfaces and control authority. Efficient designs lead to more controllable, forgiving and less fuel consumption battling these forces. Its easier in smaller planes and model r/c crafts, but not so much in real world big commercial planes. First time viewing though, all I could see was your shaggy cute dog chewing away to glory and wondering what kinda forces helped him to perch on top of your couch and even walk like a cat on the edge of your couch!! My dog is clumsy af and has fallen off a dozen times and still hadnt learnt his lesson until I had to rearrange and push my couch up against the wall. Patchy has good aerodynamic and ground control I must say. Thanks for an awesome video!! Not fair to keep this adorable bundle around though lol, it distracts us too much from you!! Happy holidays Mentour Pilot!
Merry Christmas!!
Merry Christmas!
Me: oh cool a new mentour vid
Me, 10 seconds in: Holy Heck A Christmas Log
Good video as always , think your gonna have to do a video about drones now it's been nightmare at lgw last few days . Merry Christmas thanks for all your videos through the year 👍
Merry Christmas and happy New Year to you too Petter and Ms. Mentor
I want to be on a flight with that dog as the pilot. I would have no concerns.
Ur fan from India
your videos are helping me 3d print a large scale rc plane
Thank you so much. Easier to understand when you explain it and also it helped illustrating the subject using the model plane. Your doggy kept saying "Forget the video, Daddy, it's time to PLAY!" Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and all best wishes to you and your family (including the cute little doggies).
Had to watch this video two times because the first time i didnt listen to anything of what you said. The dog was so distracting haha.
An-225 was also designed to land on unpaved runway.
Pretty much all military airlift aircraft are high wing for the same reason.
I personally love the upward slope of the 787 Dreamliner wings. Absolutely beautiful and also noticeable from a long distance away.
Cheers
Thank you for your videos, I enjoy them very much and have learned a lot. I am a quantity surveyor and not a pilot but very interested in aviation. I have been watching the videos for a long time but have never commented. This will be a very busy time of the year for you, stay safe and Merry Christmas.