The WoW PvP Community Is Reaching A Breaking Point (WE NEED HELP)
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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#Venruki #WorldofWarcraft #dragonflight
Holy moly that Blizzard CM response is such an L. the House is on fire and we will make surgical changes when only Ash is left
Take a deep breath buddy it’s just a video game, go pump some iron or something
@@ninjaturtlesoup2769wow PvP community in a nutshell, you and ven act like this hasn’t been trash for a decade lol
Its just a video game that you paid and still pay to play, so you can complain@@ninjaturtlesoup2769
Who tf is playing retail let alone retail PvP? Everyone is on classic or sod or HC. Ig you can run transmog so that’s cool but the entire game is a dumpster fire and idk why you guys are spending your money on that product. Shits sad
blizzard is the only company that thinks letting these critical problems sit is ok
They literally let something that is having 40k games played die because of a math formula in the background they don't want to change.
What world do you live in 😅
They are letting DHs run rampant in PvE and pvp meanwhile arms in PvE is borderline about to actually fucking die as a spec due to evrey spec around it in dps getting buffed.
The last time I had time to pvp seriously was in Legion. I do not want things for free, but I think it's fair that if people devote time to something, they are rewarded. No one, pvpers, pvers, rps, world content players, or anyone else wants to put time into something with no reward. Wow is not a job for most of us. It's what we do for fun, and I get more out of my window garden than I do this game atm.
Hasn't been fun in a long time.
I quit PvP cause it wasn’t fun anymore, I’m doing m+ with friends now and I’m having the most fun I’ve had in months, blizzard just don’t care about PvP
im pushing 2,4 with ease and im having fun
lets be real. if you are bad you wont enjoy the game. it's so stupid when people are asking this and that. you are just not good enough. are you getting rewards when you put your time in things in real life? no you don't. get over it. if there is competition the vast majority don't get anything. like i said no one enjoys anything when you cant make progress and guess what. thats you not the game. geez. wow has been this way since forever and now people are just being greedy. i don't get rewards and I'm fine with it and it's only because I'm not good enough. same thing in real life.
@@prowessjennot going to lie I didn’t even read this entire comment because it’s not worth my time. The fact you are asking if you’re rewarded for putting your time into something IRL and then saying you aren’t tells me you’re 28 living with mommy.
Inject gold in shuffle, make old elite sets earnable again with a saddle/rating system or both. It's that easy.
Wow this season felt like it’s been out for 3-4 months not 4 weeks. Actually unreal
I AGREE, I was confused too, it's a bitch grind for RNG vault, world pvp AGAIN and the ques are horrible with FoM spams. Next season should improve at least for gearing.
I couldn't even fill my vault last week, I have limited play time each day and couldn't even get a queue to pop in the last half of the week. Feels real bad.
“Gatekeeping the community from having fun” is a really good way to put it
We need that "Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Etc" type of ranking that you stated in previous video. There needs to be an overall and a redesigned ranking system.
100% this plus making PvP gearing as it was in MoP/WoD. Remove this crafted embellishment crap, remove tier sets (i.e these broken or, depending on class/spec, useless borrowed power systems that are a balancing nightmare). If DF was like this, I'd resub and Q my resto shaman and alts.
@@Dubstepkick They need to bring back PvP tier sets like they had in MoP / WoD and those pieces should only be obtainable via purchasing it from conquest. They should totally remove the RNG vault because some people get weapon / tier first week while others get HP trinket
@@DankMemes-xq2xm I couldn't agree more on all of that except pvp tier sets as they clearly can't even balance the current sets even tho WoW is a game garnered more towards PVE. Would I like tier sets specifically for PvP? yes. But would they design/balance them well? Probably not. And the GV is literally the dumbest game design philosophy (same with weekly chests in BFA). It's meant only for players to get a dopamine fix if they "win" with a good loot selection or it gives gamblers logical fallacy, pushing the player to stay subbed and play more to get different results every week while inhaling copium.
What would this fix?
its my belief that if they redesigned the ranking system it would fix long que times due to more players be able to play bracket below, a bracket similar to, and bracket above, giving more opportunities for matches to occur. Best way I can state it would be like if you were 1600 and instead of waiting for a lobby where 5 players are between 1620-1690, you could play people between lets say 1400-1800. @@tjolson5131
I stopped playing my 4 healers in 10.1 and it wasn't because of CC. The damage was just too much/spikey. It was not fun at all, it was stressful. I realized the devs design philosophy for pvp was not what I wanted to play so I haven't played since
Same for my healer
same wow it's a downhill, but from SL is going waaay faster. solo shuffle finally killed pvp for me.
They trying to help healers a lot.. But play what u like
Have mained healer since 10.1. Damage is definitely too much and too spikey. If the dps have some clue what they are doing, I make one mistake and we lose.
Exactly healing sucks you can die rather easily. Unable to do any real damage yourself. Who wants to roll as a punching bag?
Same people that complained about how it was too easy to get rewards which in turn made them feel meaningless, are now the same people complaining about how it’s too hard.
Just let the game die bro.
The folks that nearly always reach Glad or Rank1 are rightfully concerned that it is near impossible for everyone currently. If all the players that want rank1 or glad cant, and they know it, they may quit, and no one gets the rewards. Other people pvp but dont chase the high ranks, they just want some percentage of game play to feel good, and that does require decent spec balance, if they dont master the top 5 mathmaticly best specs. Rage quiting solo shuffle I saw just yesterday twice, the spec balance and CC tuning os not in a good spot and people feel it, and even when they do well selfish players quit mid solo-shuffle and cost everyone that did well rating and time if they are doing shuffle for conquest.
Today I had my arena partner die 100-0 through defensive in 1.3s, this may be the final straw, healing is just not fun
Either you or him are trash. This doesnt happen in mmr range where good players play
Im here for this. I stopped playing, got 1800 first week in 3v3 then couldnt find groups on lfg around my rating to play with.
That's because there's no one. There are no players pvping in retail. Solo shuffle killed 3v3 and 2v2. Retail is fucked. It's so fucked.
let me guess u played Dh
@milesb2111 hi I play fire mage and I echo his sentiment. If you don't know he's right you clearly don't play and/or have never approached 1800 in the last year.
Same thing here. Got to 1.8k first week and to 2k in solo. But getting teammates is fucked and doing 30min queues got me to quit again. I have been having fun in SoD though, got into a decent guild and I am having a shittone of fun
What's the issue? You would have quit once you achieved your goal which is probably 2.1k or 2.4k
7
My biggest complaint as a healer is the damage is just too high… I have to play PERFECTLY because if I make one mistake somebody is getting one shot. The damage is just out of control and it’s not fun to heal, it feels like there’s no room for any mistakes every game even at 1600 rating
Yeah lol oops i got kicked thats game
I can keep people up as a Disc priest all day UNLESS the matchup has a druid healer and two heavy CC classes. I simply cannot heal in that environment. Trink and then death because cyclone in combination with other CC’s means sometimes I cannot cast for nearly a full minute. That is no fun.
Blizzard needs to do like RuneScape and add voting booths into every bank and put forth 5 things to vote on for the community. It allows players to vote in game on atleast 5 issues in the game.
all 5 would be related to PvE. PvP playerbase is a fraction of a fraction
Socialism at least in the game haha
Except 99% of the player base only want what’s good for them and not the game as a whole.
@@lustach8378 This would not be socialism, it would be democracy
@@finderOC ахахахах, typical american boy, doesn't even understand what he's criticizing
Venruki, I love you but you are so Canadian. Go HAM on Blizz. You’re FAR too nice and your voice is needed. The community is bleeding for all of DF and you are still treating them with undue respect. This group of PvP devs HAVE NOT earned it. Please, add some daggers to your videos.
the only reason i dont watch his streams... his attitude is weird af
I don't think that giving free game time to healers is the answer... If you have to get that drastic with rewards in order to lure people into healing arenas then I think the whole game mode or even role might need a rethink.
I wish the game would show you at what percentile you are on the ladder next to your rating, and title acquisition changed to win x games while being above y percentile (needs to be freezed the first 2-3 weeks of the season though). I think this would stop people obsessing over arbitrary elo numbers and incentivize play across the whole season as titles would be accessible throughout a season.
IMO it should have always been a percentile of ladder and it should be differentiated by title names instead of 2k, 2.2k, 2.4k, and 2.7k. So duelist and glad should only be dealt based on percentile. the issue now is getting immediate titles/rewards compared to percentile because you can not calculate the percentile until the season is over which suggests shorter seasons.
It's funny, that's exactly how SC2 works where literally nobody is complaining about the rating system.
I personally LOVE your idea of a season pass with rewards that anyone can get for simply playing the game. I want that so bad!
It'd be cool if we could spend honor to get the pvp pass prog (not like a level for 5k honor) but honor cap for half a level. Maybe even increase the cap to 40k like in cata. On top of playing the game to prog that pass.
traders post is that basiclly
NOOOO
I disagree, battle pass feels like another opportunity for them to milk money out of us… there needs to be better rewards for playing PvP and shorter queue times.
@kolerivera well he specifically said it'd be free since we pay a subscription which is why I like the idea.
I'd not like it if it cost extra money, but if it were just an addition added in to each pvp season, I feel it's the perfect way to allow everyone of all skill levels to achieve getting rewards and welcoming more players to play pvp
As someone who learned that pvp in an MMO is dead like 8 years ago, I stopped playing it and now I just come back for expansion releases when the hype can hide all the design flaws. For some reason though, I installed wow again this patch and now I know my decision to not play new patches was a good idea, the game is boring as hell.
1. Season pass
2. Shift focus to BG Blitz including esports and balance; it's more digestible to a viewing audience, it's better for q's (healer to dps ratio), it's preferable for the casual playerbase where they don't have as much pressure on them as 2v2/3v3, it can generate new content with maps and modes.
3. Reward participation over skill heavily if offering more than just a season pass. Being good should get you like a weapon mog or help you attain rewards faster or something. Some people will play for the rewards and end up staying and improving and it rebuilds the dying player base; elite players should be elite to compete or to feel good or get a title or whatever the motivation is but at this point elite players are soon to be all that remains and shouldn't be a priority.
cc is not what I find annoying as a healer personally. My main problem is that I cannot heal through sustained damage in a game of 3s. 2s is just fine, but 3s is very difficult to have fun in when I have to spend every global healing. It feels like I literally can't heal my team when I am fighting certain comps.
One thing that might help is if cr was tuned at a different rate. Like you could only loose half the amount of rating you would have gotten from a win.
Its stupid you can win 5 games and get 0 rating but lose one and loose over 50 rating because the mmr system scaled down quickly below your cr due to long ques and rng.
Maybe all of the big pvp personalities such as yourself and supatease for example should all get together and come up with a post like this guy made with solid ideas and changes for the pvp community.
@johnerskine7303 And who will heard them exactly ?
pvp is bad because of people like cdew and venruki. They always reccomend bandages instead of fixing base issue. Solo queue for example is just a bandage on the real issue, which is that modern wow has 0 social interactions. How is it possible that you play an mmorpg and you dont have a single friend to do arena with. That is the important failure of blizzard
@@casko9626 This for sure, I remeber Wod, Blizzard did listen to them and we got fucked.
Like a round table of pvp minds. Discuss whats going to create fun if implimented. Tuning unless magicly equal considering the tools each spec has to win, is not going to happen overnight if ever. Finding ways to lessen pain points everyone feels should be possible. Like, MMR, long queue times, micro and non-dr ccs/spammable cc, defensives being removed early, movement being made near impossible most of the time you are in combat, ect.
I was in a solo shuffle yesterday.
me and all other dps player won 3/6 games one healer won 6/6 and the other healer won 0/6 not a single dps player gained rating and it was the most demoralizing feeling i've ever experienced doing pvp lol.
The day before that I won another 3/6 games and only gained 4 rating but if I go 2/6 I lose 10 rating
Yeah bruv, the healers have SO MUCH influence in PvP rn… it’s crazy
Now go play healer. 90% of the lobbies will be 3-3, and also you will be flamed for not pressing link on the warrior, inside the smoke bomb alone.
Then he will afk next round, and he will whisper you afterwards.
Then you go check him...
1550 in 3s, 2k mmr in Solo... ooooooooooooh Great.
next game, the DK decides to go LoS behind pillar with every single CD he has, only to flop, and then ask? "heal?"
next lobby you will 2-4 and lose 60 rating and never get out of 1800 mmr, even though you have multi healer exp at 26..2700, thats for S1 dragon and 2500 S2.
No wonder no one heals.
Today I went 3/6 in a lobby that was shitty for me and lost rank after trying hard as hell to win....AFTER a 46 minute Que. So I AGREE this is demoralizing and horrible.
One easy thing to fix the pvp problem: More player activity. Few easy steps to reach this:
1. More and different rewards in every rating and every bracket (rbg, solo shuffle mounts)
2. Make pvp worth for pve player with reward equip items in pvp who are usefull and unique in pve
3. They should do for every season a new pvp level system for example every pvp season you start at honor level 1 und can get till season ends pvp level 100. So it is worth to play early more pvp when the season start till the end.
4. Or Make a activity reward system in rated pvp like the trading post but with rated pvp activity and honor kills, wins and just playing, so people have sense to play pvp from season start and people have sense to play also activ later although they have the big season reward
5. In weekly treasure should 2 items be selectable (one pve und one pvp item)
Agree with including pve incentive to get those nerds over
2. Make pvp worth for pve player with reward equip items in pvp who are usefull and unique in pve
No. We dont want pvp in pve. Remember Drestagath trinket in arena? The outcry was huge. Why should we suffer the same? This is not how you improve the pvp experience, you just make the pve experience horrible.
Agreed, rewards are not the problem...Class balance and the damage is too high...too many CC, microcc and stuns. Its too complicated for a new player to enter this game...There is insane ability bloat...too many gap closers for melee etc... The biggest problem of all, is blizzard doesnt communicate much with the community.
@@okayegg4597
Literally everything with PvP has begun to rot. RSS was an update needed but now it's just been seemingly left to die. BGs and the achievements/rewards attached to them haven't seen updates forever. RBGs haven't seen updates since they were launched in Cata. I am/was so excited for BG Blitz but worry it will have the same fate as RSS now.
BG Blitz is already dead. As soon as the hype dies, ques will easily be over an hour long. I honestly blame the rot of pvp on bad players. The reason no one ques is because people don't want to que with terrible players. Honestly I hate waiting an hour long in a que, just to play with gutter rats who've never been above 2400 in their lives.
That blue post man. It's like trying to get a straight answer out of a politician.
Season 1 I peaked at a bit above 2.5, season 2 I only played the first 3-4 weeks of the season, got to 2380 early on but then the hardcounter s started (I play enhance).
Season 3 I'm now struggling vs multiglads / elite players at 1.8k.
I've been 2.4-2.7 since SL s1.
SL was litteraly free galds for all. xD
you're so fkng right lol, everyone was glad in SL , you see them flashin their glad mounts in arena and they play like a 1.4k player@@petersirota5124
@@petersirota5124 Free beats Impossible.... just saying.
I hit 1800 last season first time ever. Currently stuck at 1400 and fighting 2k - 2.2k and multi glads almost every game. To get to 1800 last season it was the same thing but we were also fighting rank 1s every 4-5 games or so. That response from Blizzard was insulting.
Thats because the games for clowns now 1800 is like 900 back in wotlk you're also fighting glads because the games ptw people are paying for carry
Got my Shaman to 1800 and quit. Been playing SoD.
I feel bad because I like a lot of the retail pvp creators, but the game really needs a complete overhaul in the PvP department and I don’t see that any time soon.
You can like them, but they suck at their job. 😂
@@Drualeafhe’s talking about the content creators
I think the only thing that would make me try out healer in solo shuffle would be if it was WAY easier to get rating (rewards).
It makes no sense to me that I can be in a cross faction guild but I can't queue up for skirms and normal BGs with my own guildies. Feels like a arbitrary decision with no point to limit cross faction in that way. Merc mode doesn't let me group-queue cross faction in non-rated either. Feelsbadman
For me as I said in your last vid talking about shuffle and the mmr blizz also needs to fix ppl losing rating when someone leaves. As I said before as a healer I logged on queued 2 shuffles in both shuffles someone left and I lost rating, there is no logical reason why I lost rating
A purchasable token for previous mog sets would be cool.
This! The FOMO addicted people will complain about "muh exclusivity", but if you could endlessly grind arenas and earn old elite sets (a bar that would only fill by winning 1800+ matches, similar to the mount saddle bar for 1400+), I'd PvP non-stop.
@@okayegg4597 coming off a bit salty ngl
no........glad gear should only be for glads
Imagine pissing on healers who have the least to say in winming oe losing a game. 2 equal healers basically can only help with CC from time to time ( f rsruid and apamable cyclone). You just keep everyone alive as much as humanly possible but thats it. It falls to dps players to press the correct buttons. Why the fuck are we punished?!?!!??!?!?!
Dude healers are most entitled toxic little bitches
Actually the healer is the QB and has alot to say about winning or losing a game. Easy to win games with a bad dps, not so much with a bad healer.
The fact that they are over 10 months into this release and hunters and a couple other classes are still killing you in pvp with two attacks is just stupid. Then there are all of the leeches who enter battleground or arenas and do zero dps and zero hps, or close to zero. Is that sabotage by devs of another platform? What is going on here???? The hard caps on conquest, honor and crests etc. are silly. Nobody can get into Mythic+ because it's too political and there is no way softcore players could catch up on all of the necessary tricks and tips. The gear check alone precludes most invites, and once you get gear locked, there is no reason to play the game.
For what do you get reputation when nobody is buying the crafted gear you could make with those patterns? Do you really need those toys, pets and mounts when you already have a thousand others? Blizz disincentivizes the vast majority of their players from sticking around, and suddenly Dragon Flight is a Ghostland. It started when heroic came out, then when Mythic came out with WoD, the came got so effin political, they lost most of their players. They began to mollify the remaining elitists by making endgame content harder and almost impossible to experience for everyone else, and the cancer spread like a malignancy.
With a proper benchmark system, you get a rating on everything you are doing including CCs, Damage Mitigation, Damage Avoidance, Self-Heals ... everything. It's not just DPS and HPS anymore kids, time to grow up. These new metrics will not be political but math-based, and they will determine when you are ready to queue for Heroic and each stage of Mythic so these features are now available to all players through LFG.
In pvp, the new benchmarks will even determine overall effort, so when you get on a losing team where you are doing 95% of the damage and healing, you aren't hurt by their shit play. In fact, since it is all "honor" based, you can still get a bump up to your score and get conquest if you were being epic, even on a losing team. This rewards effort instead of wins. Even the winning team would have skewed rewards, so if you contributed very little because of your shit play (we can't count being chain-CCd because the enemy fears you), you get less conquest and less improvement in your scores.
Understand?
These benchmarks can also be used to fine-tune class specs, say, once a week. By AI. Are hunters dominating pvp? Determine why and put a governor on that skill without humans ever being much involved. Remove the politics and the Developers that intentionally buff some classes, and refuse to ever nerf them, won't be able to destroy the game to profit themselves anymore. Because we all know that's what is happening here.
1 hour shuffle queues, no one to PvP with. I’ve turned to M+ unfortunately
Bad players are to blame. I don't want to que just because all I que into are 2200exp rats
@@prod7906I agree
Its weird that cc keeps getting brought up as a problem for healers. When I heal I feel like I can't waste a single global or my teammate dies. There is way to much damage and heals feel worthless. It's holding on for dear life until cds are back, and thats if they weren't killed through cds in the first place lol.
Feels as though the people complaining about cc just get outplayed.
But it's not like healing is in a much better place in M+. I only pug and I don't raid, but healing is so stressful and in some weeks every pack is a fight for survival.
They have no idea what they want healing to be and they suck at making it fun. Game is a solid 4/10 but I'm still paying and playing, so the joke is on me.
It’s all the damage and the spam CC that’s the problem.
In current rating system, without or before inflation, your rating is based only on your relation to other players. However, rewards are set at fixed numeric rating values despite your skill or rank as compared to everyone else. The problem is that these two things are not directly related. Either rewards need to be based on your position as compared to the rest of the community, or the rating system should be absolute and not directly linked to other players.
I am a m+ healer, I don't touch PvP. Multi-season KSH, with about 25s being the max I have pushed. I can confirm right now, healing in wow is the worst role to play. Its not fun, its way to punishing and the meta is absurdly restrictive in the communities perspective to the extent where you will not get invited to anything at a certain point. I have personally quit the game, this season was my final straw its just gotten to the point where it is not fun to play when it feels like the game is actively punishing me for playing a healer.
I have said repeatedly to my friends that if you're going to allow this much burst potential, cc is one of the primary issues. Spammable cc, though there from the beginning of the game, must cease. Not only is it mindless, requiring little thought, spells like polymorph and cyclone can be repeatedly cast, without significant DR penalty, and without cooldown. I also think with everyone's expansive toolkit, the amount of downtime any player can have can easily exceed 10 seconds in any one go, ensuring an untimely death. Give every CC a cast time, and a CD.
Genuine curiousity: in your idea, without emphasize on cc, how would a team win in your view?
@@lars4422stop letting every class heal, I play warrior and can stay alive by hitting heal buttons
Polymorph and cyclone have been here forever. They were never such a problem that it broke the game. You have to find what is the problem now that wasn't there before. When people list out iconic spells that have always been there, it doesn't address the real problem. You're just chasing your tail.
What HAS changed? Combat speed. Reducing gcd's on nearly everything from 1.5 seconds to 1 second(with haste) is a VERY significant issue. It doesn't take a scientist to recognize that speeding up combat that much, while throwing in so much burst, will just amplify the problem exponentially. Once you have glass cannons that rely on haste pumping so quickly, you have the others(sustain specs) that have to be compensated to compete. As a result, you have to buff healing to compensate. But then healing gets insane so you have to dampen. And with the early healing extending games to the dampening, CC is necessary for the kill window. The balance then becomes a major nightmare.
Instant spells do not need reduced gcd. Haste is fine if it reduces cast time. You would have the 1.5 gcd anyways.
CC itself is not the problem. The necessity of it, which was created with their demand to speed up combat, is the problem. Things need to slow down. They love esports but don't realize that their development has made the game a cluttered speedy mess that no one watching truly understands.
Reduce damage by first making everything a base 1.5 second gcd regardless of haste. Locks got the reduction purely on the dots through talents so that can be optional as it existed before and the game was fine. Slower combat gives a little more time to think(less mental exhaustion). It will make things less cluttered and chaotic. It removes a huge modifier(haste gcd reduction) when it comes to their balancing. Which also leads to the issue of so many modifiers. Purely talking about the stacking buffs + enchants + effects. They need to be scaled back. It's better for performance of the game and focuses on consistency. Spells feel better when you KNOW they're about to hit hard. It's mostly a game of stacking modifiers now or else your heavy hitter will hit like a noodle. More mental exhaustion due to excess focus on that trash.
I could write a novel on the issues but what's the point? People will beg for cc to be nerfed. It may happen, but then their kill windows will disappear. Then they'll asked for reduced healing and they'll just be blown up again and less healers will play. Then they'll ask for burst to be removed and the cycle repeats itself again. And it's all dancing around the real issue. The combat has sped up way too much.
@@icaanul damn, well written my friend. Even though I dont like higher gbcd I think you are absolutely right!
I really dont think the problem of healers not queuing is related to cc, the problem is the rating, winning 4-2 and losing mmr is just wrong. I do agree, cyclone and punts could be toned down a bit. The only really overperforming classes are rdruid and probably disc too. Some dps classes are way more tanky than others and should be adjusted a bit. The season is great, but if they don't fix the rating fast, it will flop like season 2. I feel like the top awc teams should be at 3k fast into the season, and finishing at 3.4-3.6k would be ideal.
The problem is that people don't like to heal. In general. It's hard to find healers in PvE content as well. Nothing is going to change unless Blizzard completely redesigns what healing looks like in this game, increasing offensive capabilities, giving them a proper offensive rotation and letting healing be mostly weak instant casts, with biggest heals literally nuking your mana, same way as a DPS offheal. (Dps survivability would need to be buffed across the board, of course).
As a disc priest main I can tell you that it's not that I don’t like to heal. The problem is that the intensity of healing in shuffle is just too damn crazy.
One moment you top off one of your dps after he almost got one tapped, next moment your other dps got 100 to 20'ied in a blink of an eye. Nearly every moment feels like extinguishing fire and you have to spend almost every global perfectly to not fall behind. And it's not just when the other team is popping CDs. There's never room to breathe, and I find my APM to be at least 2 times higher than when chilling in 2s. I rarely play more than 1 or 2 shuffles at a time 'cause I simply get fatigued. And it's been like that the whole expansion.
Meanwhile when I sit on my dps characters I queue up, chill, do some damage, misclick and misplay and still get a decent result most of the time.
To encourage more healers, they need to slow down the pacing of shuffles and get rid of the excessive micro CC. I don’t mind the iconic CC like poly, cyclone, trap, fear, kidney etc. They come at a cost and a risk and actually require some amount of skill. What I do mind is braindead warriors, DHs, DKs, WWs, sub rogues etc. zug zugging you with a million instant cast stuns and incaps while PvE'ing their 3 dps rotation...
@@forgotmyaccount The issue is that, no matter how much they tweak the game, the lack of healers and long dps queues in all content in this game has been an issue since LFG tools were invented, Solo Shuffle just accentuates this, but even if all healers queued non-stop for SS, we would still have long dps queues.
There's just no way to fix this unless the role is completely overhauled, and Blizzard will just never do that. Your suggestion is cool, but it would only work as a band-aid fix, and then people would be complaining about matches taking forever because things just don't die outside of dampening.
@@forgotmyaccount Suggested by many, in responce to healer shortages, have dps only rated solo queue 2v2, only one rnd per queue like 2v2 now, but allow dps to opt into a match free of healers and tanks. By all means reward healers fairly, punish leavers sevearly, dont punish those that stayed if someone leaves, but add content dps can do without needing healers so more dps that want to do solo shuffle can without massive queue wait times.
I've already been discouraged out of playing this pvp season. I'm okay at the game, but I'm not super into pvp. I've been trying to get the elite set on my resto shaman in 2s, but I'm getting farmed by 2200 exp players in the 1600 bracket.
Played at 2500 end of season now 2k. I queue into so many amazing players and I just want my first glad mount. Never have time to get it when the ratings work because I have a busy work and family life. If the season worked all throughout I’d really appreciate it. I feel like most guys who play wow are around my age (mid 30s). Would be nice if the game catered more to us.
I play a few pvp games and wowpvp is the most rookie unfriendly game I have ever played. The huge number of different spells and abilities and talents require time and effort so that at least you know what u doing when playing pvp. That alone is hard enough for people to convince themselves to play.
And also you have to know every other specs abilities and if they have been tuned up or down, changed what they do, and then again learn everyones new abilities when a spec is reworked massivly or mildly. The who is hard/easy to kill and what casts are a priority to inturupt, with a stun if nessesary is very hard for a new player to learn. An actual new player is just dead, even against vets on their alts, without learning anything. A new player might think, no mater who I fight, I cant walk, no one I hit has their health go down, then Im dead, every match, so why bother. There is so much cc you need tons of knowledge to have a chance to walk some.
one big issue with healer mmr in shuffle is that when you're let's say 2290 mmr and enemy healer 2220 mmr, with a 4-2 u get +0, and with a 3-3 u drop mmr. The problem is that there's no difference between a 2290 and a 2220 mmr player. Just make it when you do 3-3 it's a complete draw (nobody win or lose mmr/rating), and with a 4-2 make it a win, no matter if the enemy healer is lower. Like alot of times who cares if the enemy healer is sightly lower, you still have to deal with different comps and players
healing in solo shuffle is the worse experience i ver had in a mmorpg.
I was 2400. Now I’m 1700-1800. I could probably push for 1900 but the amount of effort I have to do while facing rank 1 gladiators is so tiering. I don’t plan to be a pro. I just wanna play for fun after work.. but it’s not even fun anymore que times are 40 minutes just to face gladiators while rating unchanged when win 3 lose 3. Plus I already got my elite set. So what’s the point of even playing the game.😢
What made me quit is I got tired of rogues always being godly at pvp. Even at their worst they’re super effective because of their base tool kit which is so much better than what other classes have. Also demon hunters. Blizz doesn’t get that if a class has insane mobility it shouldn’t have insane burst on top of that mobility because naturally it’s going to have more uptime than other classes. And it’s a nightmare to play a caster and has been for quite some time.
Yeah I think that's the core of the issue, I'm trying to gear up my Ret Paladin and hit 1600 for the set piece, EVERY round of solo shuffle, 2s above 1200, etc. is against people in full conquest gear. Often it's duelists or glads.
Nothing like a miserable slog trying to get gear. I could wait, and get my gear for free like everyone else, but I have targets I wanted to hit and don't like the feeling of not making progress.
Bro. This game is now designed for super mega casual dads with 3 jobs, 2 wives, and 10 kids, and they play for like 3 hours per week and sure as hell don't care about PVP.
So PVP being in shambles sure as hell won't be a reason as to why these dads quit the game, so Blizzard has no reason to spend time and resources working at PVP when they could do...nothing at all because the dads seems very much content with current DF content, which is why the expansion has the best player retention in many years.
My point is: if you're not one of the aforementioned super mega casual dads, it may be time to switch to classic full time or just quit the game. Retail is circling the drain pipe as Blizzard is pandering to a very strange audience who should spend their money elsewhere than in a game they play for 3 hours per week.
Thank you for highlighting my post Ven! We need HELP!!! BLIZZARD PLZ I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAMEEEE
I have a TL;DR of What Kaivax (Blizzard Blue/Dev/GM) said:
WE
DON'T
CARE
ABOUT
PVP
Hope it helps! see you in Solo Shuffle guys (One of this days IF THIS SHIT DECIDES TO POP UP!)
Healer CR can be improved in Solo Shuffle with a simple change. Calculate the best of 4 rounds instead of 6 for healers , but make sure they play all 6 rounds. Otherwise, penalise them. This will help healers gain more CR more quickly and be in an even playing field with the DPS who gain ratings much faster.
Honestly one of the best ways to increase participation is to just make the glad mount more accessible. It’s 2400 3v3 and 50 wins right but the m+ is only 2k rating and which is literally all 17s the skill gap is huge between the two. Just make glad mount easier to get and make titles the end goal for rating like every other piece of content
Not sure if this alone would work. Everyone has 500 mounts. Even the mount collectors I know have given up on caring about mounts at this point. They need to fundamentally overhaul the arena system from the ground up. And with their timelines we'd be lucky to get that by the Midnight expansion.
@@B-... More along the lines the rewards need to be better to make more of the pve crowd actually start queing. There is no reason for them to que only reason I said glad mount as an example is it’s already In the game and just one thing that can easily be adjusted
I love that the CM was sure to mention that the players requested that Healers of lower MMR shouldn't match up with higher MMR DPS. Feels good to throw that one back in players faces.
Only problem is that Healers still can't gain mmr anywhere close to DPS so they still don't q.
It is a valid thing. The community is constantly swinging between two extremes. However, Blizz should explain what would happen.
“Ok we can make a change on healer mmr matching to dps, but this will likely increase queue times. Vote here if you wish to proceed.”
That’d go a long way.
@@Altruistic-General so I think it's strange though that so many times they just flat out ignore feed back, but this one they implemented despite the problems it would cause was so obvious.
This outcome was predictable
Class imbalance is nearly universally understood as a constant, but no two people agree on what specs are the most powerful or how to fix it. Queue times for solo shuffle haven't been terrible for me lately, usually being fifteen minutes or less (Because I'm playing characters I have minimal rating on). Micro cc is bad for everyone that doesnt play the specs with the most cc. I feel all cc including slows and snares needs to apply lower cc times on future aplications of any cc, until cc doesnt happen. Damage on a lot of specs does seem toi high, most problimatic on the specs with cc immunities. I don't need every spec to play the same or have the same tools, but it would seem fair for the specs with less tools for success to be allowed to do "compensation"(higher) damage than specs with all the tools (mortal strike, disarm, lots of CC, strong defensives other specs cant remove, instant movement, exceptional tankiness for a non-tank spec, automatic self healing that is strong by using rotational dps abilities). I could write down and send off a long list of changes I'd make to "fix" the game, but 90% of the player base would disagree with likely 80% of what I'd have changed. It is easy to not like tuning the way it is, but harder to convince the players that all class tuning is beneficial to the health of pvp as a whole.
Dont listen to that guy. I play a healer and I LOOOOVE getting spammed by poly / fear / cyclone. Its super amazing experience. No I dont want to throw the PC out the window. I am too busy spamming cocoon for when I hopefully can play the game again IF my trained DPS teammate is still alive after my 15 seconds brake :)
FUCK SPAMABLE CC TO HELL AND BACK!!!
Learn how to line
@@ross1779good joke 👍
How about more game modes? 2v2 dps only, 1v1 dps only, 3v3 dps only (all start with something like 50% healing reduction. If they can't make healers fun, let people who want to dps at least play SOMETHING instead of sitting in 40min ques.
I totally agree on micro cc. Especially like a demo lock or unh dk. Demos pet can kick, stun and they can insta stun again with double demon (or whatever its called). Unh dk the same, kick, stun ? Like why :D
ye its brutal lol, and very tilting when u trying to make plays and the fucker has it on autocast xd
Micro CC pisses me off to the core, every class has some kinda stun, slow, root, silence, fear whatever it's just stupid frustrating.
I actually got my highest rating ever last season at 1900 and tbh that was the point I quit
If the highest you were able to get was 1900 last season, then you're just too slow for this game. Your mind is literally too slow to process this game properly. Do yourself and those around you a favor and just quit. Play something thats more your speed, I hear fisher price has some games that might be up your alley.
What i personally was thinking about was, what is the problem with having a inflated season? (outside of more people getting the mount / cloak or just even the Enchant at 2,1 and thus rewards being less "prestigious") i belive it could help to motivate players / player retention to keep on playing when duellist or gladiator is more reachable (S1 Shadowlands imight be quite a good range in terms of inflation).
With a deflated season, who profits from that? Just less participation and far less motivated people when 2,1k is the limit for the majority. As well as during the season, its so wierd that pretty much last season i waited for 18 Weeks after a season starts to start playing and the last 2 Weeks before season end i just tryhard with my team get the Glad mount and then stop. Then the new season starts and i wait 2/3 of the season before i play again, i play for couple weeks get glad and stop.
I overall really enjoy pvp and i would play at the start from the season, its just my time is worth more then sitting at 1.8k-2k rating early season, getting demotivated when i can just play for couple weeks and get the rewards in the end. I guess when there was more inflation more people would play / get less demotivated, queues would be shorter, you could find more people in lfg and rewards felt more reachable and the overall health of a season could be better?
I guess the problem that was created by Blizzard is: when Gladiator was fix Top 0,5% ladder inflation was irrelevant, but when it became fix 2400, and seasons like BFA S4 and SL S2 happened, they created a serious problem of expactation for all non regular Glad and R1 players (so pretty much more than 90% of pvpers). ( SL 2 was far to infalted and should not have happened to such an extend, but how do you plan on comming back from sth like this without destroying the motivation of players? ) How do you plan on telling a Player, that reached Duellist in SL S2, but just weeks or some months later hes stuck 1800 / 1900 unable to climb, that this is normal? I had irl friends who got there first glad in SL S2, who quit pvp at the end of Sl S4 / DF S1, since there expectation had become that they were good enough for glad, but it just had been inflation. That just isnt sustainable. Same for Solo Shuffle, Crimson Legend was 3593 for me and my moonkin, in S2 it was 3017 inflation is 570 points lower, like what???
( Statistics / calculations not 100% correct but they paint a picture)
Lets just say Shadowlands S1 would be a goal as Inflation goal. 626 R1 in DF S1 ( EU and US) 867 R1 in SL S1 (DF S1 numbers of unique characters should be lower then 626.000, going with an average of 20% estimated Alts as i looked up, we talk about 500k unique characters) we talk about a 42% drop in the characters who play in a season. So lets take into consideration that 42% less characters participated in DF S1 than in SL S1,
SL S1 867k characters : 7000 Glads = 867k :7000= 115,6 ( so 1 Gladiator for every 115,6 characters on ladder)
DF S1 500k characters: 3300 Glads = 500k :3300= 151,5 ( so 1 Gladiator for every 151,5 characters on ladder)
Sl S2 460k characters: more than 10k Glads ( statistics stop at 10k) = 460k: 10000 = 46 ( so 1 Gladiator for every 46 characters on ladder atleast, number is lower)
SL S3 188k characters: around 7k Glads= 188k: 7000 = 26,8 ( so 1 Gladiator for every 27 characters on ladder)
SL S4 ( most recent season with the rarest Gladiator mount in BFA, SL and DF in term of numbers) 143k characters: 1600 Glads = 143k : 1600 = 89,3 ( 1 Gladiator for every 90 characters)
Overall percentage of ladder who got Glad: DF S1, 0,66% of ( counted ) characters on Ladder ; SL S1 0,86% ; SL S4 1,1% ; SL S2 around 2,5% ; SL S3 around 3,7% of characters on LAdder
This means: going from SL S1 to DF S1 = there is a -25% amount of people who reached Glad in relation to characters on ladder, which makes DF S1 the lowest ( compared to SL 1,2,4)
From SL S2 to DF S1 = there is a -74% amount of people who reached Glad in relation to characters on ladder
In SL S4 compared to DF S1 = there is are -40% less characters who reached Glad in relation to characters on ladder
Average R1 Range Week 5 2750 Shadowlands S1, 2650 S4 Shadowlands, 2187 S3 Dragonflight so about 500-600 rating lower?
About 7000 less people got Glad in DF vs Sl S2, 4k less Glads then in SL S3, and around 4k less then in SL S1
I am incredibly lucky to have a fix team of friends to play and get Glad with since Legion, but i am sad that just many of my guild friends / irl friends come from pve, going through all the effort to learn pvp, starting to enjoy it, and just getting demotivated cause A) they reached high rating / Glad in inflated season, and never get close again in following seasons making them quit since it seems they make no progress or B) the season is so deflated that reaching Duellist and Glad become impossible for a huge majority of players, so motivation to climb dies down after 1800 or 2100 or they dont even play. I dont mind if more people get the mount or enchant, whatever, i just want more players playing pvp and creating a better experience for anyone. Dont get me wrong, far more people get Duellist Glad etc. then back in Legion, Mop etc. but once expectations have been set its really hard to paddle backwards. And yeah, i like math.
TL:Dr = Comparing overall how many characters got glad to other seasons ( in % of how many characters on Ladder got Glad, so accounting for players fluctuation) DF is the lowest one with 0,66% (3300 Glads) compared to SL S1 0,86% ( 7000 Glads), SL S2 2,5% (10000 Glads), SL S3 3,7% ( 7000 Glads), SL S4 1,1% (1600 Glads), so overall far less people get Glad in DF then in SL ( e.g 25% drop SL S1 vs DF S1), andon average Week 5 R1 MMR is 500-600 Rating lower compared to SL S1 and SL S4
I've been thinking the same about inflated seasons and I'd say you're right on the money here. It makes no sense why they keep reseting the MMR every season either, it's a walk in the park for R1s and AWC players to get glad anyways so why delay it and ruin the ladder for the progressing players. If they want to restrict players from getting 3.5k+ rating why not use a soft cap instead of ruining the incentive for players to play for 2/3rds of the season.
And furthermore! Taking away weekly catalyst charges has only exasperated the issue especially for those of us who have God forsaken luck!
They did WHAT?
Huuuh, the charges are there, you should have 3 right now
Raising health pools would also solve some of the PVE issues as well, that is a given and a no brainer for all aspects of the game.
I'm a long time player, but a new arena-goer. I'm playing a holy paladin, and have been unable to get out of 1300. I occasionally get some hate, and am trying to do better. I was surprised the other day when I got put into a game with 1600s as a 1300s player haha. anyway, I'm super frustrated in my inabilities right now, but it is interesting to see people's views about the current season. this is all pretty new to me.
We are barely 10 words into the post and already have a writing mistake.
The worst part. Is you wait 3 hrs for a 2400 pop. And you get a toggle botting ele with 1.5-2k achive points that made thier acc 3 weeks ago.
They need to allow players to fill the vault from all PvP content. I enjoy battlegrounds, but it’s nearly impossible to find decent rated groups. Arenas aren’t my thing at all, eliminating that completely. I basically cap conquest, do wpvp quests, and that’s it for the week. I’m hoping solo queue rbgs become a reality, despite it having some design flaws in my view. It’s getting very frustrating having the entire realm of PvP dedicated to 3v3 arena, including solo shuffle. Battlegrounds, 2v2, and world PvP all exist. There is so much potential, but they don’t seem to want to invest. World PvP could be totally amazing, but there’s a sheer lack of activity. After people complete the spark of life quest, there is no incentive.
We really really really need some pvp balancing that isn't manipulative. It's been so long since they balanced pvp in any genuine way
I feel like I'm just a sheep, where ever Blizzard takes us is out of our power. I can't play the class I enjoy if it isn't FoM because it'll get owned by FoM bandwagons.
What’s going on with retail PvP is very basic.
The game is split between WOTLK, Retail, and SOD. So people have to decide what they want to do with their time. Classic Era/Hardcore also.
Sod - New and different. Super fun feel.
Wotlk - Raiding to keep your guild spot and PvP to cap.
Hardcore - Just a different type of challenge.
Retail - Sit 1hr SS queues or sit 1hr + LFG just to get trash team mates and stop after 30 minutes of playing rank 1’s at 2100mmr. Not to mention if you got unlucky with vault, and sparks. You’re behind in gear, no sense in trying to “push” rating.
People just aren’t playing.
That blue post was incredibly lacklustre and disheartening. Very sad state of affairs.
Hardstuck around 1500/1600. Gain very small rating for wins. Losses tank rating. Lots of 3/3 games that give 0 rating because of 1 player that gets singled out the entire game.
sad to say, wow pvp is coming near its end
I think so too
Over here in Europe we are now at the point where gigatryhatd 2700 exp multiglads hardstuck in 1600mmr in 2v2. Now its impossible to even get the set piece reward.
I'm tired as a healer in solo shuffle 5 wins 0 points and the rating doesn't change it's annoying
As a healer main I dont care AT ALL about damage or CDs or CC, I can play around those and adapt.
What I care about is not progressing, being DUELIST and being in the top 100 ONE MONTH AFTER THE SEASON STARTED is so fucking weird
First week of season every class' top 100 was 2400+, meanwhile every healer was 1800 with the exception of Blizzcon players at 2100 like wtf
RSS is both a blessing and a curse...I'm an insanely bad player who probably won't ever be able to own a gladmount.
But what the shuffle has allowed me to do is get all the other rewards, it saves me from that very unpleasant feeling of having to be directly in the exchange with people who I don't have enough rating for anyway and who almost seem to be waiting to give me all the blame for a defeat. so whether I sit in the queue for 30 minutes, or in the tool for hours and don't get accepted or don't get any requests, after 30 minutes I'm still in the queue. after the shuffleque I'm guaranteed to have 6 rounds in which I can play!...even if I have two gladiators in almost every shuffle 1-2 who hold their mount under my nose, but then either play so well that I wonder why they play on the rating or don't even use a single cd to survive.
i also don't know how to improve the mode, but there are definitely good approaches and blizzard shouldn't give up on the shuffle too quickly...sorry for the long post.
It truly is a shame with all the time put into live wow between all of us personally, seeing how poor the game state is and how it seems flat out unbearable.. forcing people with any interest in pvp to just go straight to classic versions I feel like, I miss playing my main toons and wish they could do something to revive and bring the spark back in live wow.
Theres a huge disconnect with blizz, there are pve players nearing 4k (yes 4000cr) in M+ pushing 27/28/29s and there is ZERO rating cap or "mmr" in pve.... you can literally pay a group to carry you to KSM and KSH right now, there is no "stopping players from getting too high on the ladder" from blizzard.
Meanwhile in pvp if you want to get your normal rating of 2.1 or 2.4 now you're playing against a rigged system designed to keep you low and your opponents are R1/BLizzcon players...If pve is the main focus of the game then why is blizzard so intent on screwing over their smallest playerbase if it has no effect on pve? make it make sense.
Something I don't understand is how skirms and bgs don't have ready checks yet...
The MMR and personal rating systems being split was a decision made by design to control how frequently people must play the game.
For instance if you lose two games in a row. You will lose an MMR value 3-5x the loss incurred to the personal rating. Why is this? Well it is to make it so that people must play more on average to recoup the lost personal rating. The current system that is implemented - cant remember which expansion it was first introduced is the singular reason I refuse to pvp in modern wow.
Pvp in mmos has historically been terrible. Blizz doesn't pay attention to pvp because it simply doesn't make them money. Pvp player numbers compared to pve is not even remotely close. Why should they fix it?
I am guessing that the reason Blizz keeps this rating inflation system is because they noticed that many pvp players play , get stuck on certain rating for a few weeks and then quit which does make sense. But its definitely bad if the best players in the world cant get gladiator at the start. Imo they should start with higher inflation and maybe reduce the rate at which it inflates throughout the season.
As for the lack of healers they just need to make healing less stressful which means lower dps burst and better rewards. Currently healers in solo shuffle get more honor/conquest but that's not really much of a reward since gear is pretty easy to get anyway. Maybe add something that can be sold on the AH for decent gold (augment runes maybe) in the healer reward bag. Its the same thing they do for pve ques with the call to arms bags so no idea why they haven't tried it yet. That way healers have extra gold incentive and no extra gold inflation since gold is being traded between players on the AH.
I hate trying to find a partner that doesn’t leave after the first loss. Then sit in lfg for another 20minutes trying to find another partner to have the same thing happen again.
This season I got my 1800 for my elite set and said, you know what. NOTHING else actually feels worth it. The weapons colors aren't striking enough, the enchant doesn't look good. The tabard is so so. I retired until next expansion knowing there isn't anything to look forward to
Last time I played, people are either one shotting (usually rogues) or being bullet sponges (locks), that needs some serious work.
I just resubbed this week after years. The fix to WoW PvP is literally a reversion of game mechanics and gear progression. Back in the day you queue up BGs, you get honor and buy gear. You play arena, you buy gear. If you've got some raid gear, you start mixing it with PvP gear and you're still viable.
I log in these days and I'm overwhelmed with the amount of bullshit hoops I need to jump through as a returning PvPer.
Let me spam BGs and gear up. Then let me spam Arenas for slightly better gear. It is not a hard concept, and it's what we did through the golden age of PvP (WotLK through MoP).
New talent trees are a spider-web of useless confusing garbage. It is a terrible attempt at emulating Classic. Even Classic has simpler talents. Just remove all of the barriers to entry to PvP, the community is so dead that I wait in 15 minute BG queues and can't even gear up.
Classic has all of the PvPers now because of how SIMPLE the game is.
we stand with Mauvex, lets get Mauvex post 1 million likes/comments so Blizz cant ignore us
the only reason SS is so popular is no one wants to deal with group finder.
I think you should be able to queue Solo Shuffle as a healer, and decide which character gets the honor and conquest… a 1:1 ratio. This would help queues bc more people would heal to gear alts. 50 conquest isn’t even close to worth it.
iirc they do this already just not at a 1:1 ratio. Would be cool if they allowed this though.
Worthless PvP team, best example is the response. Microsoft has to just release the whole PvP team and hire ppl that know how to do their job. Bunch of monkeys could do better then this.
I am one of the top warriors in shuffle this season after never playing shuffle or dragonflight up until last month, shuffle queues CAN be 40 minutes for dps but RARELY are at even 1900-2k cr currently. it isnt bad, but needs much work
My strategy for dealing with the bad PVP this expansion is that I just simply stopped playing. Specifically when paladins became Uber gods I just decided that the game just simply wasn't worth my time at that point and that there's so many other things to do. I still watch RUclips videos keeping up to date with what's going on and plan on returning when it gets a little bit better especially with the amount of "hackers" and Bots in Solo Shuffle. But as of right now there's so many other games available and things to do because right now wow just feels like a bad time investment. Saying this as somebody who's played the game for 16 years with over 20,000 hours just a few characters.
If you can have Ahead of the Curve right now you should be able to be Glad now.
There is absolutely ZERO benefit to put a cap on Rating in a game based on Rating. That is that dumbest shit I've heard for a competitive game. It feels horrible to play Arena the first few months... As i'm writing this I'm in a 40 minute que.... Just for my first win of the day bonus to get RNG vault gear.
I'm exclusively healing and am down 600 pts from 2.4k last season; I agree about the rating complaints, but just about nothing else in that first post resonates with me. I get that it's not fun to sit CC, but the alternative is a a dampen fest or a PVE meta where two teams bash themselves into one another brainlessly. Balance is also pretty decent amongst healing specs compared to previous expansions.
Also lol @ healers just getting 500 MMR.... I'm trying to keep my DPS friends interested in this game too, and they have the same problems with deflation that I do. We should all be much higher MMR than we are now.
People are getting last boss on mythic week 2, and some are getting keystone hero on week 2, so why can't there be gladiators in week 2?
I can't imagine playing wow pvp. Feels like dev give zero fcks about pvp
There’s absolutely no way grinding SS for absolutely ZERO benefit is better than playing SoD.