Yet another shot in the foot for GW. www.patreon.com/letstalktabletop #hobby #wargame #warhammer #warhammer40k #warhammerageofsigmar #gamesworkshop #painting
The other thing that's frustrating about this is its a self fulfilling prophesy. Like - Oh no the kits we haven't updated in 10 years aren't selling. I wonder why? Discontinue everything.
The thought of warhaming companies going to a "wargaming as a service" is frankly soul crushing. Thank heaven everything is still playable in Brutality.
The big risk for GW is that players just start ignoring the new rules and models to play with just what they have as a complete game. That's what happened to Star Wars Xwing when they tried to move everyone to 2.0.
I had a hobby shop for over 20 years. 100% miniature based game store . GW is what you said. I was in the top 5 for sales and they pissed me off and I stopped ordering from them. All I would get is a different rep every few weeks with "what can I get you this week" I told them I wanted to talk to someone incharge of sales before I ever ordered again......Months later they just stopped calling....... they are a shit company with no reguard for the owners and players.
I remember in the old 40k editions, RT, 2nd, 3rd, early 4th, Games Workshop used to show how to build custom models and how to make your own terrain on the cheap. Long gone now. I really feel like things really hit the tipping point by late 5th and have been money-hungry monsters putting profits over players ever since.
I started using warhammer minis in our dnd games, so many sculpts make amazing bosses. Got curious, and in the past 4 years I've built 2000 points of Orks and Stormcast, never played a single game and still used all the minis in our dnd games. Eventually sold them as armies. Got the custodes xmas battle box and thought I would try a 40k but nah, just as pointless. sold the box. Kill Team however has been great. 6-12 minis max for a team, can go overboard kitbashing, and having 10 teams is easier than 4 armies. Game plays faster and barely any rule bloat. Matches in hour. And if there is an update I might loose or gain a unit, or even if the team is lets say shelved or cancelled by GW, im out max 50 bucks. Also if you plan it right, there are several Kill Teams that are 100% free. My ork team was 100% free. Buy the combat patrol on sale, sell the vehicles & get 20 orks free. Sorry to hear your armies got wrecked. I would honestly 3d print the replacements.
I don't mean this in a snarky jerk way, but rather in a "I think this is the better option for all of us" way: let's just collectively switch to One Page Rules (or another mini agnostic system) until the X years from now that GW is forced to behave.
That is more and more tempting. My entire gaming group is pretty angry. We're trying to decide what direction we're going to go in. I did download opr and some of them are interested in trying it.
I always find this comment to be weird because it's like. Hey don't proxy your army as another army there. Proxy it as another army here instead! And I'm like. You didn't solve anything just moved the goal posts to a different stadium.
It sucks but Beast of chaos is under old world, separate studio, so they didn’t want them under both. And I was just about to rebase my beasts to rounds from squares… Some of the stormcast should see newer sculpts. You allow legends in tournaments anyway, keep on using unmade as unmade. You aren’t the competitive tournament player, so this is fine for you for the most part, keep playing with their last rules.
I get what you're saying, it's not the end of the world. But having beasts of chaos under two different studios doesn't seem to be any sort of problem at all. I don't really understand that point. And if they remake some of the storm cast that's fine, but the second gen is still half my army painted and based so that's gone. And you are right about me not being a competitive player, I'm not worried about the tournament use, I'm worried about a year or two from now when all the points change and you don't know what points you're dead units should be. Points are the only means of balancing this game, as laughable as that statement might be. So this still does suck.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Surely, the end goal of Old World and AOS is to have all of the fantasy kits playable in both systems. Like its such stupid logic to separate those two model lines for no reason.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Yeah exactly. The whole model is stupid. Surely you release models that should then be playable in as many systems as possible. Restricting things in this way makes no sense.
Fuckin GW. I feel for all the players whos armys got swatted. But the bright side is maybe it will push more people to look outside of games workshop. Theres a whole wide world of far better games and companies to spend your time and money on/with. Jooiiinnn usssss
Sadly GW is in the business of making money. Not friends. It's a company. It's just the way it is. And I am left with a cabinet full of things I paid too much for, painted for too long and now never play with. Warmachine did this to me as well. I feel vanilla. Love the hobby but hate the commercial side.
Time to switch to Kings of War. Not only do they generally keep backwards compatibility, but they are also model agnostic, so if a couple models get exceptionally outdated somehow, you can just rebrand them as another army with a unique theme and keep playing official tournaments with official rules.
Easy fix, stop relying on GW for running your tournaments. I had to deal with GW squatting my entire game... WHFB and make way for the shit show that existed as AOS. GW have never taken an interest in tournaments prior to 8th edition 40k, especially in Australia where we had a really solid WHFB tournament scene. Here in Australia our tournament scene was and still is completely run by our community, allowing things like legacy armies, comping our own games here and having our own ranking system. Also GW have a history of removing entire model lines... Squats, harlequins and the entire firstborn range of space marines. Don't blindly follow GW's sale tactics and just enjoy the game and the edition you enjoy.
I agree with everything you're saying, but it really depends on the environment that you're in. My gaming group all plays warhammer, while we are very angry and that might change in the future, that's what they currently play. I can't just decide to start playing 5th edition 40K because I would have no players to play with as everybody else plays the current edition. So if you have a thriving player driven community that's great, but that's not what everybody's situation is. Also, I run a wargaming convention, and of course that needs to be the most up-to-date rules and points. While I know some people like playing old hammer, that is a serious minority of the gaming community. But I can't disagree with what you're saying in spirit.
@@LetsTalkTabletop I’m not particularly saying playing old hammer, but when you say play the current points and rules that’s exactly what I mean! You don’t need to have GW’s approval to run your event the way you want. As I said, the entire old world community here in Australia has allowed the use of legacy factions despite gw ruling them not legal. Play outside of the box gw is trying to put you in. In saying that I was the same with not having people to play older editions with, you have to be the proponent in getting people back into te older games. Get out there, get interest! Even if it’s just a single intro game, it might give people the chance to understand that you don’t need gw and that the power to play what ever you want is with the community. You will also find the older editions to most game are far more appealing than what gw has to offer.
I disagree that this scheme that GW is following is characteristic to all corporations - if they were any smart, and would look to get even more money out of you, they would monetize the whole market of armies they decided to kill, instead of just shitting on players who were unlucky enough to be collecting armies they decided to remove. You still could have divisions in tournaments with killed armies enabled, plus they could run a marketplace for trading minis of killed armies - this way their customers would still feel included, and could officially use their beloved armies, and GW would make even more money, and keep everyone happy. What GW is doing is actually bad corporate practice, which is uncharacteristic of most successful companies - they are poorly managed, and dont respect their clients. This is important to point out in my opinion, as there are companies (corporations too) who dont do that, who respect their customers and keep them happy, and at the same time make the most money out of them they can - I feel like we should all look for these companies in miniature hobby space, instead of supporting this shitshow that GW is. Apart from that I feel really sorry for your loss man, its a real pitty that biggest company in wargaming is so terrible
I agree, they definitely could have handled this better in a few different ways. But the whole corporate mindset is very short-term gains over long term gains. At least most corporations are that way. It's because most of their employees are essentially mercenaries, they only care about whether or not they can meet their next quota and not about the actual health of the game or the company. People keep saying Games Workshop is not on their way out, but all they do is shoot their self in the foot and I think it's inevitable.
Wait till you find out about what they did to the Custodes, and how their time has finally come. There has never been a gaming-entertainment company that hates its own customers like Games Workshop. Calling their Age of Sigmar players losers, calling 40K players every woke name under the sun. They overcharge you guys by leaps and bounds. A guy spent 1400 dollars just so he could have a piece called a Warhound, it was about 3 cents worth of grey plastic…he has to paint and build it too for 1400 dollars you would think it was a special thing but no… Ever since I heard about warhammer 2 years ago all I ever really hear is how games workshop fails upward regularly, they are so greedy, they kill their own creativity, they kill your creativity, they even attack- yes attack people just for asking questions, they literally behave sociopathically…
Not nearly as disastrous, but when Fantasy first split into AoS, the only army I had was Vampire Counts. And because of my interests, I had a mixed army which meant in AoS I had parts of multiple armies but not a single army. I played AoS once with Death and have not bothered with it anymore. I now have a lot of D&D, and Brutality, undead minis.
Switching my minis over to alternate games like One Page Rules, or Space Weirdos, etc. GW has grown to expensive on all products is putting themselves out of business eventually. Screw GW
I kinda expected this with beasts of chaos and bonesplitterz because they're main factions in TOW and it doesn't make sense to sell them in 2 different box types. But the Stormcast and Warcry stuff? That's pretty rough...
Yeah I guess the packaging argument makes sense, but then again it always also makes sense to have two different types of groups buying the same product. That's double the sales. Just like I always thought it was a great idea for demons to be usable in 40K and aos. Double the player base buying it.
My 3500+ pts Deathwatch Army is dead…yes, could make them just space marines but ALL of them are First Born and a ton of Kitbashed Characters and Vehicles to include 16 dreadnoughts, two Corvus, three Land Raiders (various), etc. Meh, I don’t do GW tournaments anyway only Local and they usually don’t care but this is the First Time I had an Entire army just removed! Do I have to wait another 20 years to come back just like Squats?(errr, Leagues of Vohtan) whatever 😛
They can and will keep going away with this because they have a monopoly. I started playing infinity recently with my gf but outside of us 2 we can't find a single soul that plays infinity in our zone (NE ITA). Meanwhile it's very easy to find people who play GW games like 40k/AoS/Mordheim and even LOTR. It's already a bit of a challenge to find a group that plays miniature wargames because it is a niche hobby, now imagine trying to find a group (or even ONE person) that plays a niche game within an already niche hobby, it's the reason why I'm pretty sure I will not give money to any but GW (Or more likely, buy a 3d printer) unless I like the miniatures and will buy them purely to paint them.
I leave Warhammer (Fantasy) when Age Of Sigmar start. I have Undead army over 400 models, which is about 2/3 of Metal. Yep it is old. But I did not want put money when armies go away. I feel almost same when primaris came. I have Blood Angel army of over old Epic battle company aka at least 3 x 10 Assault marines, 3 x 10 Devastors, 3 x 10 Tacticals, 1 x 10 Death Company, Characters, 3 x 5 Scouts, 45 Dreaghnoughts, 4 x 5 terminators etc + transports, tanks....
Im not old (for wargaming standard) im only 21, i had been interested in warhammer since i was 9 and i got my first box of miniatures when i was 12, i had been playing for literally half my live, with every decision, every time i had seen other companies (im also a history nerd in general i have books of studies about the development of the austrian army as an examples) they had driven me away more and more, and to what? Now i have a full time job money is no a problem im in that few years of almost all income not a lot of expenses but i just cant bring myself to give them money, not like this, is not that i cant is that i reject it with every bit of myself, the game i loved as a kid that i didnt care expending a excesive time in it has become a overcompetitive game where the mere act of sugesting a narrative list makes people put bad faces, where the cost is so higth that i can get hundreds of historical miniatures or one metal unit for TOW, i just cant take it anymore. Yeah yeah you dont care and you hadnt read this becouse why would you care (you in plural)
Games Workshop is going to Games Workshop. They have done this sort of nonsense for years. I still remember when they started selling boxes of units below the requirement of a full squad. People run them in squads of 10 or 5... let's sell them 8 in a box. I've kept up with some of the books, and video games. I stopped with the miniatures when I went to University. I've recently been looking at picking up again with the launch of 10th, but Games Workshop really does put me off.
GW have always dropped older models when they replaced them with new models often with improved moulding tech behind them. Most of the Stormcast is being replaced via a refresh, a lot of the character models will have new ones, it's not especially noteworthy (and also they older stormcast are Heroic scale models, whilst the newer ones are more "truescale") though a few of the major characters were a surprise but then GW shouldn't be surprised they don't sell: they charge insane prices for them and then imprison them on the webstore, preventing anyone from getting a discount. They haven't worked out yet that WEBSTORE SALES = LOWER PROFITS overall, because people can barely afford GW at a discount let alone from their webstore. Dito with the Warcry stuff which was priced at an INSANE price point: no wonder they weren't selling. They should have kept them for Warcry and advertised that game more. The Beasts of Chaos... awful and surprising despite them being in the Old World army book and rulebook. GW had already made AoS Beasts of Chaos underworlds units and spells, terrain + a new HQ character. What is insane that GW didn't bother to actually create the old world with a ruleset where the bases didn't actually matter. Seems so deliberate and spiteful. That the Savage Orcs aren't even moving to Old World is vile.
They could just lump up the discontinued Stormcast models into other newer/remaining units, by just having the old models "count as" them and remove bloat that way. All old units would remain updated and tabletop valid then, and they could just sell cooler range refreshes.
@@LetsTalkTabletop You're quite welcome. I wonder if GW will be releasing a "counts-as" list like they did for 40k going into 10th edition. A lot of the Sancrosant chamber falls into the "golden boi with shield and weapon AND golden boi with 2-handed weapon" archetypes that can be applied to the other chambers. But the whole announcement was very clumsy and inelegant in my opinion. Not a lot of silver lining on his one.
"We have no idea how we ended up in this situation with too many stormcast, despite launching a new stormcast army each edition. Nobody could have foreseen this."
@@LetsTalkTabletop Yeah. It's bananas. Had GW not released Primaris, they wouldn't have known what to put in starter boxes since 8th dropped. AoS is speed running the primaris-sizing of Stormcast. This is the 3rd edition of 40k since Primaris and Termies, Sternguard, and Scouts have been the first marine units to get a one-on-one refresh.
Play AoS, play with fire 😬. Remember it came into this world by squatting an entire gaming system and, like a perpetually cheating partner, it's doing it again.
That title is willfully misleading. GW is not "killing" armies. Basically hey take older modells out of production from the very broad Stormcast range but still promised new warscrolls for them for the 4th Edition or just replacing modells from the Skaven Roster
You have to go back to the 80-90ies to find the fun times with GW, at least 25 years of selling models with profit over everything in mind. Gw does not make rules for games, well they do but it is just to showcase and make more sales, it is not to be balanced, or anything it seems very much heading towards releasing a line... 2 years cancel, a new line of something, forget seeing the previous range. So it is more a collector thing than anything else.
Well, the skaven are actually being redone and they are part of the new box set from what I hear. They canceled those models but they are remaking them in newer versions. So getting into skaven is not really a problem, and you can probably get them for a pretty good price in the aftermarket once these new models drop. The models you could buy would be older but you would save a lot of money. As for the beast man, if you don't plan on playing old world, you're out of luck.
@@LetsTalkTabletop the point is if that remove my favourite faction in the game and with the culling of the stormcast I do not trust GW to keep those units around for more that six years
Actually, I've fallen into that same problem. I used to collect stormcast because I knew they were the poster boy for age of sigmar and I figured my purchases were safe, but now I know better. They won't see me buying any more stormcasts that's for sure. My purchases for Games Workshop have almost become nothing.
@@LetsTalkTabletop good choice I've more or less done the same deciding to focus on painting my sea of grey and if I really need something from GW I get it from element games
@LetsTalkTabletop it fills a niche between 40k and OPR in complexity. It's basically open source 40k (5th iirc)designed to allow you to field every miniature you own as wysiwyg. The only cost is the app ($20), which allows you to build factions, units, armies, and the armories for each in a really intuitive (to former gw players) manner. Their are a couple of cool tweaks (alternating activations) to the core rules (free btw) and a HUGE suite of perks, powers, and abilities to select for your units or weapons to make things as thematic as you want. The app automatically creates a points value based on the stats and powers selected, so you know when you and your opponent are basically on even footing. This means you can create any type of unit or character you can think of, like Superman or Goku and take them against something like a Chaos Marine army just for giggles. It also handles the genres of sci fi, fantasy and modern easily. Also, when you create an army and are ready to play, the app generates a QR code you can share with your opponent so you can both see the others army stats. The QR codes are also how the community can generate and share whole factions. Most of 40k has already been translated over by the community, and they've also created a large compendium of more generic starter armies to start tinkering with. It includes a bunch of fantasy and sci fi factions. You just scan the code and the army is in the app. It also offers an "advanced" game style that adds a bit of Infinity, with action points instead of I go, you go. It's a really cool system that not enough people have heard of and solves a lot of folk's issue with OPR being just a smidge too streamlined.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Unfortunately, YT just ate my long response I made from my phone... As a 40k derivative (5th ed IIRC), Warsurge sits in between 40k and OPR for complexity. It's core design tenant is allowing you to take any miniature you own and being able to put it in game as wysiwyg. This happens thru their app (1 time $20 for the app, everything else is free, unless you want hardcopies) which allows you to create factions, armies, units and armories for each with intuitive (coming from GW) ease. It boasts a huge suite of powers, perks, and abilities that you can select from to create your units and add a ton of flavor. The app automatically calculates point values for everything you create so you know when you and your opponent are on even footing. This means you could create Goku and take him against a Chaos Marine army for giggles if you want and it should be mostly balanced. Another cool thing is that everything you create can generate a QR code to be easily shared with other players, online or in person. A lot of 40k has been translated by the community and there's an official Compendium with a ton of generic starter factions and units to get you started. It handles every genre really well as the perks and stuff offer a broad spectrum of outcomes and themes. Aside from the "basic" version adding things like alternating activations, there is also an "advanced" ruleset that adds some Infinity into the mechanics with Action Points. It's a really cool alternative system that more 40k players, disappointed with GW's business practices and OPR's simplicity need to check out. It's by 3 guys in Australia who are very active with their community on FB and Discord. Warsurge.com
The other thing that's frustrating about this is its a self fulfilling prophesy. Like - Oh no the kits we haven't updated in 10 years aren't selling. I wonder why? Discontinue everything.
As a 90s kid, none of this surprises me. Was an Eldar player. Note, was.
The thought of warhaming companies going to a "wargaming as a service" is frankly soul crushing. Thank heaven everything is still playable in Brutality.
Awwww. It's the difference between independent game developers and big corporations.
The big risk for GW is that players just start ignoring the new rules and models to play with just what they have as a complete game. That's what happened to Star Wars Xwing when they tried to move everyone to 2.0.
Already planning to do that with the third edition 😂
I had a hobby shop for over 20 years. 100% miniature based game store . GW is what you said. I was in the top 5 for sales and they pissed me off and I stopped ordering from them. All I would get is a different rep every few weeks with "what can I get you this week" I told them I wanted to talk to someone incharge of sales before I ever ordered again......Months later they just stopped calling....... they are a shit company with no reguard for the owners and players.
I remember in the old 40k editions, RT, 2nd, 3rd, early 4th, Games Workshop used to show how to build custom models and how to make your own terrain on the cheap. Long gone now.
I really feel like things really hit the tipping point by late 5th and have been money-hungry monsters putting profits over players ever since.
I'm sure it has been said, take a look with a few friends at one page rules.
It will be a breath of fresh air.
I recommend One Page Rules.
I started using warhammer minis in our dnd games, so many sculpts make amazing bosses. Got curious, and in the past 4 years I've built 2000 points of Orks and Stormcast, never played a single game and still used all the minis in our dnd games. Eventually sold them as armies. Got the custodes xmas battle box and thought I would try a 40k but nah, just as pointless. sold the box.
Kill Team however has been great. 6-12 minis max for a team, can go overboard kitbashing, and having 10 teams is easier than 4 armies. Game plays faster and barely any rule bloat. Matches in hour. And if there is an update I might loose or gain a unit, or even if the team is lets say shelved or cancelled by GW, im out max 50 bucks.
Also if you plan it right, there are several Kill Teams that are 100% free. My ork team was 100% free. Buy the combat patrol on sale, sell the vehicles & get 20 orks free.
Sorry to hear your armies got wrecked. I would honestly 3d print the replacements.
I don't mean this in a snarky jerk way, but rather in a "I think this is the better option for all of us" way: let's just collectively switch to One Page Rules (or another mini agnostic system) until the X years from now that GW is forced to behave.
That is more and more tempting. My entire gaming group is pretty angry. We're trying to decide what direction we're going to go in. I did download opr and some of them are interested in trying it.
I always find this comment to be weird because it's like.
Hey don't proxy your army as another army there. Proxy it as another army here instead!
And I'm like. You didn't solve anything just moved the goal posts to a different stadium.
Even for someone who doesn't play any of the affected armies or AoS it still sets a really bad sign for them handling armies/units in all their games
"We have to cut out the bloat, to make room for new bloat!"
GW has always been like this. I never seen an sale of their minis on GW official website and i have been collecting for over 25 years!
*3d printing noices slowly aproching*
😄😄😄😄
It sucks but Beast of chaos is under old world, separate studio, so they didn’t want them under both. And I was just about to rebase my beasts to rounds from squares… Some of the stormcast should see newer sculpts. You allow legends in tournaments anyway, keep on using unmade as unmade. You aren’t the competitive tournament player, so this is fine for you for the most part, keep playing with their last rules.
I get what you're saying, it's not the end of the world. But having beasts of chaos under two different studios doesn't seem to be any sort of problem at all. I don't really understand that point. And if they remake some of the storm cast that's fine, but the second gen is still half my army painted and based so that's gone. And you are right about me not being a competitive player, I'm not worried about the tournament use, I'm worried about a year or two from now when all the points change and you don't know what points you're dead units should be. Points are the only means of balancing this game, as laughable as that statement might be. So this still does suck.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Surely, the end goal of Old World and AOS is to have all of the fantasy kits playable in both systems. Like its such stupid logic to separate those two model lines for no reason.
I'm not sure what you mean. If they wanted all armies to be playable in both games why did they just cut piece of chaos and Savage orcs out of AOS?
@@LetsTalkTabletop Yeah exactly. The whole model is stupid. Surely you release models that should then be playable in as many systems as possible. Restricting things in this way makes no sense.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Yeah exactly. The whole mindset is insane. Its about restricting rather than allowing people to play their models their way.
Fuckin GW. I feel for all the players whos armys got swatted. But the bright side is maybe it will push more people to look outside of games workshop. Theres a whole wide world of far better games and companies to spend your time and money on/with. Jooiiinnn usssss
I get pushed farther that way every day my friend. I think a lot of people are getting their breaking point too
guys should play historicals, cant drop them from circulation
I agree with you except for the fact that I find historicals boring. Not the games themselves but the setting.
Sadly GW is in the business of making money. Not friends. It's a company. It's just the way it is. And I am left with a cabinet full of things I paid too much for, painted for too long and now never play with. Warmachine did this to me as well. I feel vanilla. Love the hobby but hate the commercial side.
You definitely are not alone
Time to switch to Kings of War. Not only do they generally keep backwards compatibility, but they are also model agnostic, so if a couple models get exceptionally outdated somehow, you can just rebrand them as another army with a unique theme and keep playing official tournaments with official rules.
SCE Soul Wars models thing kinda has me pissed. Just about all of my eldar army from 4th when i started is golden.
MAGFEST!!
I'm also bummed. I got into AOS when the sacrosanct chamber was released. most of my stuff is sacrosanct
Ouch. I feel ya. About 40% of mine is sacrsanct and another 40% is first gen.
Easy fix, stop relying on GW for running your tournaments. I had to deal with GW squatting my entire game... WHFB and make way for the shit show that existed as AOS. GW have never taken an interest in tournaments prior to 8th edition 40k, especially in Australia where we had a really solid WHFB tournament scene. Here in Australia our tournament scene was and still is completely run by our community, allowing things like legacy armies, comping our own games here and having our own ranking system.
Also GW have a history of removing entire model lines... Squats, harlequins and the entire firstborn range of space marines. Don't blindly follow GW's sale tactics and just enjoy the game and the edition you enjoy.
I agree with everything you're saying, but it really depends on the environment that you're in. My gaming group all plays warhammer, while we are very angry and that might change in the future, that's what they currently play. I can't just decide to start playing 5th edition 40K because I would have no players to play with as everybody else plays the current edition. So if you have a thriving player driven community that's great, but that's not what everybody's situation is. Also, I run a wargaming convention, and of course that needs to be the most up-to-date rules and points. While I know some people like playing old hammer, that is a serious minority of the gaming community. But I can't disagree with what you're saying in spirit.
@@LetsTalkTabletop I’m not particularly saying playing old hammer, but when you say play the current points and rules that’s exactly what I mean!
You don’t need to have GW’s approval to run your event the way you want. As I said, the entire old world community here in Australia has allowed the use of legacy factions despite gw ruling them not legal. Play outside of the box gw is trying to put you in.
In saying that I was the same with not having people to play older editions with, you have to be the proponent in getting people back into te older games. Get out there, get interest! Even if it’s just a single intro game, it might give people the chance to understand that you don’t need gw and that the power to play what ever you want is with the community. You will also find the older editions to most game are far more appealing than what gw has to offer.
I disagree that this scheme that GW is following is characteristic to all corporations - if they were any smart, and would look to get even more money out of you, they would monetize the whole market of armies they decided to kill, instead of just shitting on players who were unlucky enough to be collecting armies they decided to remove. You still could have divisions in tournaments with killed armies enabled, plus they could run a marketplace for trading minis of killed armies - this way their customers would still feel included, and could officially use their beloved armies, and GW would make even more money, and keep everyone happy. What GW is doing is actually bad corporate practice, which is uncharacteristic of most successful companies - they are poorly managed, and dont respect their clients. This is important to point out in my opinion, as there are companies (corporations too) who dont do that, who respect their customers and keep them happy, and at the same time make the most money out of them they can - I feel like we should all look for these companies in miniature hobby space, instead of supporting this shitshow that GW is. Apart from that I feel really sorry for your loss man, its a real pitty that biggest company in wargaming is so terrible
I agree, they definitely could have handled this better in a few different ways. But the whole corporate mindset is very short-term gains over long term gains. At least most corporations are that way. It's because most of their employees are essentially mercenaries, they only care about whether or not they can meet their next quota and not about the actual health of the game or the company. People keep saying Games Workshop is not on their way out, but all they do is shoot their self in the foot and I think it's inevitable.
And this is why i play none completive and play casual 40k mostly 3rd edition to 5th and not the latest rules iv also been playing warhammer Fantasy
Wait till you find out about what they did to the Custodes, and how their time has finally come. There has never been a gaming-entertainment company that hates its own customers like Games Workshop. Calling their Age of Sigmar players losers, calling 40K players every woke name under the sun. They overcharge you guys by leaps and bounds. A guy spent 1400 dollars just so he could have a piece called a Warhound, it was about 3 cents worth of grey plastic…he has to paint and build it too for 1400 dollars you would think it was a special thing but no…
Ever since I heard about warhammer 2 years ago all I ever really hear is how games workshop fails upward regularly, they are so greedy, they kill their own creativity, they kill your creativity, they even attack- yes attack people just for asking questions, they literally behave sociopathically…
Man ... That's actually exactly on point.
There's a civil war going on at gw and we're the ones suffering
Not nearly as disastrous, but when Fantasy first split into AoS, the only army I had was Vampire Counts. And because of my interests, I had a mixed army which meant in AoS I had parts of multiple armies but not a single army. I played AoS once with Death and have not bothered with it anymore. I now have a lot of D&D, and Brutality, undead minis.
I'm glad you found systems that you like!!
Switching my minis over to alternate games like One Page Rules, or Space Weirdos, etc. GW has grown to expensive on all products is putting themselves out of business eventually. Screw GW
I kinda expected this with beasts of chaos and bonesplitterz because they're main factions in TOW and it doesn't make sense to sell them in 2 different box types. But the Stormcast and Warcry stuff? That's pretty rough...
Yeah I guess the packaging argument makes sense, but then again it always also makes sense to have two different types of groups buying the same product. That's double the sales. Just like I always thought it was a great idea for demons to be usable in 40K and aos. Double the player base buying it.
If you bought food and it spoiled before you got it home you wouldn't buy it anymore.
My 3500+ pts Deathwatch Army is dead…yes, could make them just space marines but ALL of them are First Born and a ton of Kitbashed Characters and Vehicles to include 16 dreadnoughts, two Corvus, three Land Raiders (various), etc.
Meh, I don’t do GW tournaments anyway only Local and they usually don’t care but this is the First Time I had an Entire army just removed! Do I have to wait another 20 years to come back just like Squats?(errr, Leagues of Vohtan)
whatever
😛
They can and will keep going away with this because they have a monopoly.
I started playing infinity recently with my gf but outside of us 2 we can't find a single soul that plays infinity in our zone (NE ITA).
Meanwhile it's very easy to find people who play GW games like 40k/AoS/Mordheim and even LOTR.
It's already a bit of a challenge to find a group that plays miniature wargames because it is a niche hobby, now imagine trying to find a group (or even ONE person) that plays a niche game within an already niche hobby, it's the reason why I'm pretty sure I will not give money to any but GW (Or more likely, buy a 3d printer) unless I like the miniatures and will buy them purely to paint them.
I leave Warhammer (Fantasy) when Age Of Sigmar start. I have Undead army over 400 models, which is about 2/3 of Metal. Yep it is old. But I did not want put money when armies go away. I feel almost same when primaris came. I have Blood Angel army of over old Epic battle company aka at least 3 x 10 Assault marines, 3 x 10 Devastors, 3 x 10 Tacticals, 1 x 10 Death Company, Characters, 3 x 5 Scouts, 45 Dreaghnoughts, 4 x 5 terminators etc + transports, tanks....
Im not old (for wargaming standard) im only 21, i had been interested in warhammer since i was 9 and i got my first box of miniatures when i was 12, i had been playing for literally half my live, with every decision, every time i had seen other companies (im also a history nerd in general i have books of studies about the development of the austrian army as an examples) they had driven me away more and more, and to what?
Now i have a full time job money is no a problem im in that few years of almost all income not a lot of expenses but i just cant bring myself to give them money, not like this, is not that i cant is that i reject it with every bit of myself, the game i loved as a kid that i didnt care expending a excesive time in it has become a overcompetitive game where the mere act of sugesting a narrative list makes people put bad faces, where the cost is so higth that i can get hundreds of historical miniatures or one metal unit for TOW, i just cant take it anymore.
Yeah yeah you dont care and you hadnt read this becouse why would you care (you in plural)
One page rules. Nuff said
Games Workshop is going to Games Workshop.
They have done this sort of nonsense for years. I still remember when they started selling boxes of units below the requirement of a full squad. People run them in squads of 10 or 5... let's sell them 8 in a box.
I've kept up with some of the books, and video games. I stopped with the miniatures when I went to University. I've recently been looking at picking up again with the launch of 10th, but Games Workshop really does put me off.
GW have always dropped older models when they replaced them with new models often with improved moulding tech behind them. Most of the Stormcast is being replaced via a refresh, a lot of the character models will have new ones, it's not especially noteworthy (and also they older stormcast are Heroic scale models, whilst the newer ones are more "truescale") though a few of the major characters were a surprise but then GW shouldn't be surprised they don't sell: they charge insane prices for them and then imprison them on the webstore, preventing anyone from getting a discount. They haven't worked out yet that WEBSTORE SALES = LOWER PROFITS overall, because people can barely afford GW at a discount let alone from their webstore. Dito with the Warcry stuff which was priced at an INSANE price point: no wonder they weren't selling. They should have kept them for Warcry and advertised that game more.
The Beasts of Chaos... awful and surprising despite them being in the Old World army book and rulebook. GW had already made AoS Beasts of Chaos underworlds units and spells, terrain + a new HQ character. What is insane that GW didn't bother to actually create the old world with a ruleset where the bases didn't actually matter. Seems so deliberate and spiteful.
That the Savage Orcs aren't even moving to Old World is vile.
Wait im confused, i was under the impression most of the stormcast stuff was getting model refreshes, not ohtright being no longer supported
So I partially misunderstood apparently. 2nd Gen is removed completely. At least some 1st gen is getting resculpted. Still sucks.
@@LetsTalkTabletop
Yeah definitely not ideal
They could just lump up the discontinued Stormcast models into other newer/remaining units, by just having the old models "count as" them and remove bloat that way.
All old units would remain updated and tabletop valid then, and they could just sell cooler range refreshes.
This is probably the most reasonable take on the AOS Legending.
I can't make excuses for GW for this one.
Wow thanks! I don't think I've ever been called reasonable before. Today was a good day.
@@LetsTalkTabletop You're quite welcome.
I wonder if GW will be releasing a "counts-as" list like they did for 40k going into 10th edition.
A lot of the Sancrosant chamber falls into the "golden boi with shield and weapon AND golden boi with 2-handed weapon" archetypes that can be applied to the other chambers.
But the whole announcement was very clumsy and inelegant in my opinion. Not a lot of silver lining on his one.
"We have no idea how we ended up in this situation with too many stormcast, despite launching a new stormcast army each edition. Nobody could have foreseen this."
@@LetsTalkTabletop Yeah. It's bananas. Had GW not released Primaris, they wouldn't have known what to put in starter boxes since 8th dropped.
AoS is speed running the primaris-sizing of Stormcast.
This is the 3rd edition of 40k since Primaris and Termies, Sternguard, and Scouts have been the first marine units to get a one-on-one refresh.
Glad I never got into AOS now.
It is frustrating that they killed armies. Some of the stormcast are just getting resculpted which is ok
I didn't hear anything about stormcast being resculpted, I thought the article said that skaven were being resculpted. Maybe I missed that.
Play AoS, play with fire 😬. Remember it came into this world by squatting an entire gaming system and, like a perpetually cheating partner, it's doing it again.
That title is willfully misleading. GW is not "killing" armies. Basically hey take older modells out of production from the very broad Stormcast range but still promised new warscrolls for them for the 4th Edition or just replacing modells from the Skaven Roster
Tell that to the savage orcs
Yes, that's partially true, but you seem to be forgetting about all of the beasts of chaos being taken out of circulation and all of the Savage orcs.
You have to go back to the 80-90ies to find the fun times with GW, at least 25 years of selling models with profit over everything in mind. Gw does not make rules for games, well they do but it is just to showcase and make more sales, it is not to be balanced, or anything it seems very much heading towards releasing a line... 2 years cancel, a new line of something, forget seeing the previous range. So it is more a collector thing than anything else.
I was acutely interested in getting into age of sigmar and was planning on picking up ever a skaven or beastmen army
Guess not now
Well, the skaven are actually being redone and they are part of the new box set from what I hear. They canceled those models but they are remaking them in newer versions. So getting into skaven is not really a problem, and you can probably get them for a pretty good price in the aftermarket once these new models drop. The models you could buy would be older but you would save a lot of money. As for the beast man, if you don't plan on playing old world, you're out of luck.
@@LetsTalkTabletop the point is if that remove my favourite faction in the game and with the culling of the stormcast I do not trust GW to keep those units around for more that six years
Actually, I've fallen into that same problem. I used to collect stormcast because I knew they were the poster boy for age of sigmar and I figured my purchases were safe, but now I know better. They won't see me buying any more stormcasts that's for sure. My purchases for Games Workshop have almost become nothing.
@@LetsTalkTabletop good choice I've more or less done the same deciding to focus on painting my sea of grey and if I really need something from GW I get it from element games
Anyone who bought Age of Shitmar and Primaris crap deserves to cry now
Are you mad about them killing fantasy battles?
Warsurge... Just sayin.
I don't know what that is. Give us your pitch! Why is it so good?
@LetsTalkTabletop it fills a niche between 40k and OPR in complexity. It's basically open source 40k (5th iirc)designed to allow you to field every miniature you own as wysiwyg. The only cost is the app ($20), which allows you to build factions, units, armies, and the armories for each in a really intuitive (to former gw players) manner.
Their are a couple of cool tweaks (alternating activations) to the core rules (free btw) and a HUGE suite of perks, powers, and abilities to select for your units or weapons to make things as thematic as you want. The app automatically creates a points value based on the stats and powers selected, so you know when you and your opponent are basically on even footing.
This means you can create any type of unit or character you can think of, like Superman or Goku and take them against something like a Chaos Marine army just for giggles.
It also handles the genres of sci fi, fantasy and modern easily. Also, when you create an army and are ready to play, the app generates a QR code you can share with your opponent so you can both see the others army stats. The QR codes are also how the community can generate and share whole factions. Most of 40k has already been translated over by the community, and they've also created a large compendium of more generic starter armies to start tinkering with. It includes a bunch of fantasy and sci fi factions. You just scan the code and the army is in the app.
It also offers an "advanced" game style that adds a bit of Infinity, with action points instead of I go, you go.
It's a really cool system that not enough people have heard of and solves a lot of folk's issue with OPR being just a smidge too streamlined.
@@LetsTalkTabletop Unfortunately, YT just ate my long response I made from my phone...
As a 40k derivative (5th ed IIRC), Warsurge sits in between 40k and OPR for complexity. It's core design tenant is allowing you to take any miniature you own and being able to put it in game as wysiwyg. This happens thru their app (1 time $20 for the app, everything else is free, unless you want hardcopies) which allows you to create factions, armies, units and armories for each with intuitive (coming from GW) ease.
It boasts a huge suite of powers, perks, and abilities that you can select from to create your units and add a ton of flavor. The app automatically calculates point values for everything you create so you know when you and your opponent are on even footing. This means you could create Goku and take him against a Chaos Marine army for giggles if you want and it should be mostly balanced.
Another cool thing is that everything you create can generate a QR code to be easily shared with other players, online or in person. A lot of 40k has been translated by the community and there's an official Compendium with a ton of generic starter factions and units to get you started. It handles every genre really well as the perks and stuff offer a broad spectrum of outcomes and themes.
Aside from the "basic" version adding things like alternating activations, there is also an "advanced" ruleset that adds some Infinity into the mechanics with Action Points. It's a really cool alternative system that more 40k players, disappointed with GW's business practices and OPR's simplicity need to check out.
It's by 3 guys in Australia who are very active with their community on FB and Discord. Warsurge.com
Holy sht I hope you have videos of your unmade kitbashes, I love them but nobody seems to even know they exist
I'll try to take pictures.