I don't know why Tournaments ever factor into these discussions, I go to the gym 4 times a week but I don't enter competitions that's not the reason for going.
It's like working out at home Vs at the gym, both are working out so your example wasn't a good one, since casual and tournament play are simply two ways you can play the game, in the same way home and the gym are two ways you can work out. Tournament play is directly related to the topic at hand.
@@Centurian-br4cs But how am I supposed to paint without my fancy-dancey desk lamp, my integrated head-mounted magnifier and light, and my podcasts?!?!?!?!
@@Hellvine it does. I like sw Legion's token draw too. And I think there was a ww2 game that had both players put colored dice in 1 bag and draw from that?
I stopped playing 40k after 9th edition but I've been playing for 25 years. I lost interest after a lot of things like lore, prices, short edition window, too many books and putting a lot of my models into legends.
I have come to spread the good news of a now community led game, where you can enjoy Warhammer fantasy in its prime, Warmaster Revolution! A 10mm rank and flank game that has lists for all your fav warhammer armies and has only further developed as time went on, many armies supported now with 3d printed models, old models, or new models from other lines of games! FORSAKE THE NEW AND EMBRACE THE OLD!
@@LetsTalkTabletop I recommend you take a look, there are some really great 3D printed armies around nowadays. Check out the sculptor Forest Dragon for some really characterful little guys.
Tired of warhammer 40,000? Switch to bolt action the armies are insanely cheap compared to warhammer ($150 for a full army), there's like 1 new edition every 10 years (just entered 3rd ed), there's a wide range of countries and in each faction there's a wide range of army's (Germany for example has the fallschurmjäger, Afrika Corp, Waffen SS, Wermacht/heer), AND things can't go to legend since it's ww2 That tabletop gameplay is good and I'm very happy I switched
I've been playing wargames for about 30 years, and guess what? Warhammer has been at the top of the food chain that whole time, whether you like it or not.
Came here looking for this comment. I have been up and down the east coast as well as to midwestern gaming stores and 1 thing dominates the tabletop community in majority of stores.... Warhammer 40k.
I have been a Warhammer 40K player since the Rogue Trader days (1990). Over all those years, I built and painted five enormous armies. I gave up on the game in 2017, shortly after the release of 8th Edition. The endless rules bloat, supplements, formations, strategems, FAQs, rules drops/rises, and expensive rule books which became obsolete within a few months was just too much to take; I was done. Fortunately for me, I've been able to breathe new life into my model collection by playing games such as Grimdark Future, Stargrave, Space Weirdos, Xenos Rampant, etc. I'm blessed to be part of a gaming group which values gameplay over all else, and we're having a great time playing non-GW sci-fi games.
That's really where it is at. Old-Hammer. Once you've got the books and the models.. there is no end. In fact, as GW has gone off the rails the OLD-Hammer and OLD-HAMMER-40k is growing. People even playing 2nd edition again. That's really important.
@@sachiel4736 Even more, you can usually work out what points/stats a newer model could have and work from there. It might need a few playtests but, back in the day, there was a metric and basic concept behind various model's stats. Which means you can cook up new model stats without too much trouble. I was able to back port newer 40k Models and AOS models without much fuss by looking at "army purpose", what similar "role" models are there, what stats to do similar creatures have, at what points, and go from there. It's not hard. Most people these days want some higher authority to bend down on high to give them "rules". Being an old far, I have no such need. Reason, logic, deduction. The systems are not complex nor hard.
Been playing 40k since 1996. The last edition of 40k I actively played was 8th ed. 8th ed wasn't the greatest edition, but I could tolerate it. However ever since 9th dropped I have been trying to find people to play any of the older editions with (2nd ed to 7th ed), but not easy as there aren't many in my hometown. However, I was able to get in touch with an old gaming buddy and we've got our first game of 4th ed lined up for this weekend. We haven't played 40k for many years, not since he dropped out prior to 5th ed, so looking forward to revisiting our old kill em all games: Guard vs Kroot Mercenaries. I'll try to go easy on him, as I have been playing Warhammer a lot longer than he has. (That and the Kroot mercenary army list doesn't have many anti-vehicle options.)
Although 5th ed is my favourite edition, which I play once or twice in a blue moon, index 40k in the beginning of 8th ed was incredibly fun! That was over after the first codex dropped. I gave 9th ed a chance, but power creep and ever increasing rules bloat thoroughly keep me away now. Luckily there are lots of other fun games around 😊
My gaming group slowly switched to star wars legion and MESBG (which is GW’s best combat system) last year. Star wars is an alternate activation based game and a lot of the missions and conditions aren’t locked to one page meaning every game can have a different deployment and primary objective. The units in star wars are also able to be customized where it’s not too complex like 9th 40k but it’s enough that each squad of like clone troopers can perform different tasks. Star wars has a better initiative system too and your units could be activated at random if your orders aren’t well placed. Ive never played the same of star wars twice whereas in 40k at a certain point i can predict how a games gonna go based on my army and the opponents and the mission we’re playing
For me, I suggest to people who are interested or inquire about gaming, first, have close friends who may be interested as well, maybe you have a friend or two that are willing to try out some skirmish games with that necro/marine or marine/ork whatever box, whatever, necromunda. Think about your budget second, and third the time you have to invest to in assembly and how much painting, I suggest priming, a contrast, and just doing the guns, maybe playing around with simple basing. Then I say, do this for 6 months and if after that if you barely played but like the hobby side, great, if you liked the gaming side, cool, maybe buying third party used is for you. Or maybe you just like the lore. You can be solo, you can have a small group, you can go find one, you can go competitive. Plenty of rule systems to choose from too. Don't let the high cost gatekeep you, buy reseller cheap, get third party minis cheap, or if you go all the way, get prints or learn to print your own. You can play warmhammer anyway if you want, and if you fall out of love with it for any reason, that's okay, Lord knows there are a multitude of valid reasons to do so.
Warhammer 40k and Fantasy are my forever hobby, I've got 2nd / 3rd / 8th edition codex and rules, and 8 huge armies that will take me another 36 years to paint. (If I make it to 90) !! I still love to paint, convert, make scenery and still even listen to Bolt Thrower............ "My wife is very forgiving" ;-)
Warhammer addict of. 26 years. I genuinely cannot think of a single day in those 26 years that I did not think of or do something Warhammer related. It's dabbled in battle tech as a teenager and any other miniatures Games I've maybe played 2 or 3 of them, one game each and completely lost interest.
I like Battle Tech but those ABS minis they sell are really kind of crap IMO. The flashing on them is absolutely brutal and they turn out kind of doughy. At least they're cheap and battletech isn't a WYSIWYG game so you can play it with just like a blank hex base if you want to cheap out. You could 3D print better quality mechs.
Younger players need to listen to some wisdom here. The GW churn is not about refinements or improvements; it's about shaking you down to spend MORE. Other games are not like this. For example, One Page Rules has constant updates but they are not shifting the meta to newer models you need to buy and paint; it's actually about balance and tactics.
I hate the fact that Warhammer is the Gate Way for the majority of people because its genuinely the worst Wargaming experience on the market. I always think of all the people who I watch turn their nose up at GW store prices and never look back, and the people who do get into it that quickly burn out and quit never to be seen again. How many of those people could have just been given a box for another better game.
Don't help the fandom not hobbie side of it is full of culture war people on both side that don't even play the game and scream at each other and paint the whole hobboe space as blue hair stereotypes or extreamly racist and toxic people.
@ZorroVulpes yeah alot of people don't understand that fandom and hobbie are completely different spaces. In the warhammer community. It's really sad. When you see people coming in from new space marine game going "why did they add black and asain space marines." While not even knowing what 1st born are ... 😞
Guilty of GW being my gateway into minis, but not because it was the first miniature war game I played, but just because of the availability of other players. As far as continued life, I basically stopped fantasy when AoS minced my vampire army. And each revision of my 40K Ork boys made me more and more disinterested.
I totally feel where you're coming from. I have been finding myself less and less interested in warhammer, although I will still play it with friends because it's a good way to keep my friend group. I don't hate it by any means, but I get sick of constantly being pulled around with new releases and updates and changes. Grown adults with real lives have a hard time keeping up with all the changes. I'd like to thank you for always commenting on my videos! As I'm sure you know, I greatly helps and it's always nice to hear from you. We seem to be on the same page.
I dropped out of Warhammer Fantasy when they released AoS. I have kept my Wood Elf miniatures for use in other games, but never have played AoS. I haven't even glanced at the new release of "old world" Warhammer, either. I've been a 40K Ork Player for decades, so I know exactly what you mean by the changes made in Orks for that game. Fortunately for me, I already have all the models I need for multiple detachments of Orks within the game. What I have can be mixed or matched for various army lists. Since I'm a narrative player and don't play competitive or tournament games of 40K, it's much easier and less costly to just enjoy painting what I have and playing games with it. Finding time to play has become a bigger factor due to my being self-employed and investing in expanding other businesses for my retirement. I'm working about 40 hours a week on my own businesses and an additional 15 to 20 hours a week on my business investments. I still manage to get a few minutes of painting models in every day and a game or two played per month. I also get 7 to 8 hours of sleep per night. I have chosen not to spend my time watching TV, movies, scrolling mindlessly on my phone, or playing video games, though.
I’m not a fan of the price hikes, but a business will charge what the market is willing to pay. In my local scene, there are like four new players getting into the game for every one that stops playing. Hopefully what this video talks about well happen sooner, rather than later, and Games Workshop will have to adjust. Because for the past two years, they have been a juggernaut and getting more and more people into the game at great rates.
Maybe this is a Canada only thing, but 40k here isn't really as bad cost-wise IMO. Maybe in the US it's just brutal. For instance I was looking at a game called Steel Rift and wanted to order some minis, it's a mech game. The box for 6 mechs with 80 weapon inserts was $80 USD. To ship it to Canada was a brutal $45USD for some reason which brought it up to $168 CAD. But I can buy a Combat Patrol for $160 CAD at my local stores so like.... is i40k really that out of line? Obviously in 40k you need way more models than just a single combat patrol for a 2000 point game.
@@Weaver_Games the issue there is that Combat Patrols are pretty much the only thing that's reasonably priced these days. And they may not even be worth buying, depending on what's in your faction's box. At this point it's cheaper to buy a 3d printer and print your own models than it is to build a new army. That's a problem.
The people leaving the hobby and selling all of their models have been a constant source of models for me through the years. I keep the models I want and resell the rest. Many are still sealed in the boxes or open box, but still on the sprue. Some are off sprue, but not assembled. Others are assembled, but not painted. Some are painted, but a cleaner will usually remove the paint. The more models I buy per lot, the lower the prices are. I've even helped friends find the models they want at far lower than retail pricing. Finding vintage models is where the excitement truly lies though. The money I've made this way has more than paid for my hobby and is is what eventually led me to being self-employed with an online retail arbitrage business and expanding into other business models for my retirement. Change isn't all that bad, as long as there is a new crop of players entering the hobby each year and a percentage of them making an exit from or transition within the hobby, anyone can do the same.
I found what I like and stuck with it. Got all kill team 2018 books and plenty of models to play it. Still a lot of stuff unexplored in that game for me. Why would I care about newer editions and shit. Also Mordheim. Mordheim is forever
The lore is so overwritten at this point too. When you get to the point you feel the need to add an 'A' to front of 'Elf' it's probably time to move on. Warhammer was far more exciting in the 80s and 90s when it was still figuring itself out.
@@johncasarino5627 I've been into the hobby 30 years. I remember the really drastic name changes happened shortly after the Chapterhouse lawsuit. The precedent continued when the AoS names came along.
Tossed in the towel on gw in 2020... started in 94... The games i am currently playing weekly. Infinity, battletech, asoiaf, mcp and shatter point Although i think asoif maybe looking to drop into the "as often as i can" group if the player base doesn't pick back up this fall/winter. We have only had 3 to 5 people including me showing up to games nights. Games i play as often as i can. godtear, malifaux, conquests, kings of war, Mordhiem
@@dr3dg352I do and I don't... I have been enjoying it, but I am not happy about s5... I play greyjoy, boltons and Neutrals. One of the 3 works well... the others need help. The game won't go away just change days and locations, there are 6 people at my gaming club that all play. 8 if you include my brother and I. I just like keeping games active in the lgs, sadly i am the only one from our group that is free Tuesday nights. But back to asoiaf... s5... Jokin, should have retained overwatch as a Neutrals/stormcrow only skill... the Commander and attachment cards with the same ability is just lazy and a unnecessary nerf. Balon is still gross I don't know how jokin got done so dirty and balon just became more selective (I'm lying the targets don't change unless the game requiresa massive pivot) of what is coming back, and honestly there are games I just waste the 5 oints as i never even need a unit recalled. The Bolton update... ugh... the problems still exist... the updates layouts are just sloppy and the art change is weird. honestly I am really curious about brotherhood without banners, my brothers next faction... if they are not a mess like boltons I am not going to be amused. But it will be a different look than starks, I hope, double or triple cav all the time gets... boring.
Started playing 3rd edition. Quit at 5th. Came back at 10 when Lion El’Jonson dropped. I don’t expect to be big into it like I was last time but I’ll always enjoy the lore and putting armies together. You know what they say “all good things come to an end”
40K started me into wargaming 31 years ago, I will never forget that. It is totally incapable of keeping my attention anymore. New editions, new books, constant points adjustments are both tiring and pointless for a veteran gamer IMO. The GW specialist games line especially Legions Imperialis and Necromunda are far more rewarding from a hobby stand point IMO.
Great video, Scott! I absolutely started with 40k myself, and had something of an on/off relationship. Probably about to go back to finally try and collect the Sisters of Battle army of my dreams, but in the meantime something I've realized about myself is I strongly prefer fantasy to sci-fi. Throughout this year I've been playing A Song of Ice & Fire and having *so* much fun with my House Lannister army, and have also tried Kill Team to get a perfect dose of Dark Eldar. 💜 But the main project right now is to collect a dark elf army in Warhammer: The Old World so I can start a narrative campaign with the guy I like. 🥰
I got back into it for the painting/collecting. The rules are too obtuse for me, and they change too often. I just have a really passive job, and I need something to pass the time. So I paint like 25-30 hours a week at work 😂
I also switched to just painting which I found more enjoyable than the game. I also don't get a lot of time to paint and I try to paint at a high level which takes forever - so by time I'd even finish enough minis to approximate a full army the rules would be outdated lol.
This coincides with the fact that a lot of veteran players in my local hobby store stick to the specialist games of GW instead of their mainline games.
im still heartbroken over warmachine and hordes seeming to wane in popularity--i remember when people were saying it was going to be almost as big as warhammer... still LOVE the universe, but yeah...
In my area wm/h 2nd edition absolutely was. And then Privateer Press noticed, that overpowered models sold well. Then they noticed, that you don't even need new models, just write a broken theme list with old and unsold stock. And boom, 90% of my wm/h buddies stopped playing that bs. I thought I'd give them another chance about a year ago. Same bs, initial fun was quickly squashed by OP stuff. Now I'm cured of the wm/h curiosity 😂
@@minipaintingforyou hopefully someone else picks up the rules they had for the warmachines and monsters because the way their health work, the activation, the abilities, all of that was absolute gold imo
I got into warhamm at the end of 2nd edition. Still playing now and then, most often 3rd edition 40k or 6th edition fantasy. No way do I chase the latest whatever... And yeah I'm a hobby butterfly, kings of war, bolt action, black powder and countless others... Warhammer is an old love, but not the only one.
4 years in and that's it for me. Went to bolt action, and will now only play with OPR rules. Minis are way too expensive! They gave a price increase twice in the space of one year.
i had the itch, and was looking into building an army around this one unit. I got it to "work" (on paper, not sure on play lol), but I try to put it all in my cart to see what it costed me and oh boy. I can buy a PS5 Pro with that kind of money. And I will admit, I throw money of that caliber every now and then (games, airsoft, model kits, PC), but that slap back into reality is painful lol. Even when you realize, that you still have to spend like another 100 or so for the manual stuff for the army. I mean, I admire everyone keeping it alive for god know how long (I remember it when I was a child looking at the table of armies), but god damn. How do people start this without getting units that you aren't interested in lol
There are other games I'd prefer to play, but I play 40k because it's what gets events at the hobby store I like, and I'll continue to play it as long as that's the case. I'll push for more variety, but there's always going to be more push for more 40k than for less 40k. I'll get in a game of Malifaux with friends on the side when I can, but it's really organized leagues that get me excited to play a wargame.
Something I learn about the hobby and WH40k is that: never follow the competitive play; play the edition you are more comfortable(or play with the rules you find more fun to use). Also try other games that maybe look cool or the minis look fun to paint.
This concept is why I quite playing subscription based online video games and went back to Games Workshop and it's product, Warhammer - it's less costly than most other hobbies. The first tabletop miniature wargames I was introduced to were historical. I discovered them at a gaming convention that I attended due to my interest in D&D in the late 80's, early 90's.
I came back to the hobby after a 15yr break. I came back to play Kill Team, but have expanded to 40K. But to be honest. Small games are where I'm at. I would love to play moon stone, but there isnt anyone else that is interested where i live. So looks like im stuck with GW games at present but now play Bloodbowl, Warcry, Aeronautica but have just bought the Boarding Actions rules as this looks like my way of playing 40K
Did not chase the meta, went with the meme "Play what you like" . Spend extra time and money to make my dudes look extra Tatar/White Scar. 7 years building , saving up, no other hobby, no spending money on anything else. And then 10th came an all my army is legends. In hindsight l am not rich enough to play w40k the proper way. 7 years kind of a wasted to play 7 games in 9th ed and 3 in 10th. And out of those maybe 2-3 were fun. A bad hobby/general investment. If l tool the money bought a tablet or new phone, l would have more fun per hour. What stings the most is the thought of having 4 month salaries frozen in an army with models l can't use.
Hmm, ok so you only played a few games, but if you didn't enjoy the 7 years (!) you spent building, painting and hobbying your army, then yeah that was a massive waste of time. I have a hard time believing someone would actually commit to something they don't enjoy for that long though?
I always say that 40k is an expensive game but an affordable hobby. Keeping up with the rule changes, especially if you're trying to play at tournament levels will take some serious cash. If you just want to paint cool minis and you just buy a single box at a time then build and paint it before you buy the next box it's really not that expensive at all in terms of adult hobbies.
The two things that killed mainstream 40k for me are the Price and the Politics. GW is charging absurd prices for what is ultimately a luxury, non-essential product. They're reported profit margins in excess of 30% some years, which is incredible for most businesses let alone a toy company. Their politics are absolute garbage; I could ignore the staff's personal politics but once they start injecting that trash into the lore, I'm out.
Needed this video as I'm justifying why I should keep painting my Deathwatch when I have no motivation or official rules for them in Kill team and looking like 40k. I've been into it seeing editions change for both games and they keep taking away my fun. I'm kinda burnt out. Even my partner asked if I was really getting back into it. It's been like you said a relationship but a toxic one. Not sure what time do. I don't think one page rules will make me feel any better.
There are exactly 1 million independent and alternative games out there. I am positive you can find one that you enjoy. On a secret note, my mass battle game where you set out the units the way you want to using any miniatures from fantasy or sci-fi should be coming out in about 2 months. Keep an eye out for Mass Brutality. I was also pretty burned out with Warhammer until I started making this game and play testing it has been a blast. One of my favorite things to do is play age of Sigmar armies versus 40K armies. I'm making a Starfleet army and the Rock people in front of me in the video are for my Dirtkind army. That walking Castle is a transport and a giant monster
@@LetsTalkTabletop Thx for the suggestion. From hearing you talk about, it's sounds awesome! I've been looking at indie games and thinking of making my own at this point. I might even make a Deathwatch Co-op skirmish game to scratch my itch
My biggest gripe with the wargaming scene is how many people get stuck in the Warhammer 40k rat race and proceed to either burn out or stay miserable. I've seen oeople cooe and say 10th is balanced but I personally think if your rules need to focus on constant balance updates then it fails a stand-alone. I enjoy Wargaming when its non modern 40k,or okaying different games frim different companies. To me 40k is the call of duty of wargaming. Its the biggest nist popular that people refuse to stop buying because all their friends and lgs play.
I am so glad that I only like Warhammer because of the miniatures and painting them and such. I have zero interest on playing, so changes to the codex, ruleset or armies doesn't really apply to me.
Thanks for the great video, i'm absolutley with you and now building my own houses and ruins and play them with OPR. But sorry, one thing annoys me. The 2 must be on the backside of the 5. The dice must shown a 1 or 6, instead of the 2. 😉
I recently got into warhammer and have been having tons of fun diving into the video games and books. But through the research and learning I’ve been doing about the tabletop, I got out before I ever got in. Everyone can do whatever makes them happy, but I personally will not be shoveling my money into one of the most consumer-vampirizing products I have ever seen
Lucky for me, the Warhammer hype only lasted me 2 months, and realized it wasn't a good game, just a gateway wargame, just like internet explorer is your gateway browser. And soon, I went on to play much much better wargames like MESBG, Legion, ASOIAF, Bolt Action and Quar. So, I'm very glad I wasn't sucked in hard into Warhammer and realized what it was. Best part is, I bought just 3 boxes, so I didn't spend a lot. I mean... I did spend some quite some money on those boxes, but considering the hobby... I didn't spend much haha
I started wargaming with Bolt Action 3 years ago, but 90% of my gaming club are ex Warhammer players telling that 40k is the worst wargaming experience ever
People complaining about new rules and books, honestly, just wait and then eventually download them as a PDF from the internet, that's what I've been doing for a while lol
I actually went to Warhammer after playing some of the ffg games (xwing then legion). I really love the models but man, I am now at the point where I have the issue with constant rules churn. At first I didn’t care because xwing and legion had it too. Now I care because I have kids and I can’t be paying so much attention and it’s nice to just pick something back up and not realize it’s all new. My play group is still Warhammer, so I’ll probably stick with it as I can. I’m redirecting my money into a minis agnostic game I can play at home though (given I don’t make as many game days) Rangers of Shadow Deep
My first Edition of warhammer was 9th. I and my gaming group have not updated to 10th, and that has mitigated a huge part of the cost problem since we are not spending 150+$ on books. Sure the models are still costly, but since we aren’t updating we can 3d print without worry since we wouldn’t be going to tourneys anyway XD. (Not that we would have before mind you)
I have always watched warhammer, but I am old enough to see the sales trick. Most hobbies end up being a waste of time and money. Companies try and sell you a fantasy that it will all be fun, sunshine and rainbows. You will paint minis, make friends, play some fun games, and live happily ever after. Then you get into the hobby get scammed, get bullied by other people, the game isn't fun at all and it was awkward as hell, it takes a bunch of time to organize any thing and so you give up, life gets in the way, the end. This is how it is for most hobbies not just warhammer though. Usually the fantasy they sell you is like the complete opposite of what ends up happening for the majority of people. Sure there might be SOME people who genuinely vibe with people and you form a cool group and live happily ever after, not likely. It's sad, but that's how life is.
Same with Magic the Gathering, for me. I quit buying new shit in like 2016ish and still play with friends. I actually just bought some of my first 40k minis the other day and the sales rep for GamesWorkshop was pushing the new rules/new sets and I was like "I don't even have anyone to play with, I just wanna paint minis." edit: this video is fantastic btw
I find 40k to be orders of magnitude cheaper than MTG honestly. Wargaming players crying they spend $600 on an army when they could instead spend $600 on 60 cards lol
@@Weaver_Games I just kept making my own decks in magic, but refound the love of painting and a friend to play with. I don't need armies, I just need one army I enjoi
Started playing with 9th edition. Loving 10th edition. Much tighter and balanced gameplay. Got into the lore in 1997, but back then the gameplay was rubbish and i stuck woth other games. Hated my Laviathan going to legends, but i love 40k and i'm very much looking farwards to thecrest of 10th and the coming 11th edition. I really don't agree with all the complaining and anti GW rants. I often get the feeling its more a difference of peoples nostalgia conflicting with those who enjoy the balanced competitive aspect of the game- like i do.
I'm only just starting to get some curiosity about wargaming. One of my main hobbies is tabletop RPGs, and I can't help but feel a sense of solidarity across different hobbies. Just immediately realizing "oh y'all ALSO have to deal with a single company who's monopoly strangles the entire hobby." Really hard not to see parallels with GW / Warhammer and WotC / D&D.
Glad for what I have and will keep my stuff until I pass it on to my family. Loved 9th edition for the buffet of rules and builds, but with price hikes, losing models and the crap that is 10th I am done getting stuff for now. Kill Team especially with terrain sets is what I am focused on except for FOMO stuff, screw that.
I decided recently to get back into 40K after some time being away from it because I had a drive to paint miniatures for more than dnd. Focusing on one faction solely has made it easier for me.
They lost me with the constant editions and lost my friend with their atrocious balance. But I still love the lore, and wont play or collect anything else. I’ve just transitioned to being a painter/collector and story reader, but I find I hardly paint anymore because my work changed and I have no time.
90% of our space is dedicated to gaming tables, so we do allow some vendors but it's not a big portion of the convention. We have some wargaming related vendors. As of this year, we will probably be at capacity for vendors, but you can email us at shorehammer@gmail.com for more information or to get on the waiting list. We don't have anybody on the waiting list at the moment. It's not a huge convention, but the vendors seem to do pretty well..
As a TTRPG roleplayer, this is the opposite for us. Like an old dusty RPG? We play those forever. Heck, people are still playing Dave Arneson's pre-D&D campaign.
the biggest obstacle to any game will be finding people to play with. consolidation is inevitable. the market will only really be able to support a few games. Warhammer, DND, MTG; they come with a bunch of people to meet and play against if you invest in those products. X-Wing Second Edition is the best miniature game ever; one of the best games ever. But it's also dead. It doesn't matter how nice it all is; without someone to play with, it's shelved permanently. The big brands fill this niche. For the most part, at least they hold some of their value or use when you buy in, at least for a time. People inevitably always go "but other games are better" and they might be correct, but most people have to do some work to find a match of 40k these days; how likely are you to find someone to play when you buy into an obscure game system? Best possible solution is to find a hobby-husband/wife bff to split every box set and play all of the smaller games with.
To this day I play mostly 5/6e 40k, 6e fantasy and my favorite game of all time mordheim. The only thing i like in gw are the new maruaders army coz they fit my aesthetic
I have really bad memory issues and I can’t keep up with the rules and it’s frustrating to me, and others around me. It’s a bit too complicated for me. I do like to paint miniatures though.
Well I'm glad you found something you like in the hobby! An alternative for forgetfulness might be to use q cards or a cheat sheet printed out with all the relevant rules. I am also not very good with rules a lot of times and anytime I went to a tournament I would have all of the relevant information printed out so I didn't have to rifle to the book mid game.
Great Video- I subscribed :) That is a good message. It's better to look around and find a game that works for you than stick to something till it drives you to quit. Been playing 40K/Fantasy since the early 90s (RT). The earlier editions were much cooler (at least through my rose colored glasses) I like most of the 40K editions through 5th, but that is when things started going south for me. 6th was a mess and 7th was the worst edition I can think of. I had hope with 8th, but GW has to destroy good things (there is no money in making a tight everlasting ruleset) so it went to **** . Then we got 9th and 10th both painfully bad. I could go into fantasy, but you can see where I am going with this so I'll stop here. 2 years ago I discovered OPR (I am sure you have heard of it) and never went back. Now I can use all my GW, Mantic, Warmahordes, and anything else I have. All with 1 system! I can even do Fleet battles with my BFG stuff. I ended up doing the patron thing to get access to stl files and more importantly the unit creator app so I can make my own units and entire armies.
Started and 3rd and played until 6th. Got into malifaux, though my local scene just turned me off with their ultra meta, ultra competitiveness. Which just brings out a side of me I don’t like, because then it becomes about winning rather than enjoying a game with like minded nerds. Now I do fencing and gunpla
I don't know why Tournaments ever factor into these discussions, I go to the gym 4 times a week but I don't enter competitions that's not the reason for going.
💯
It's like working out at home Vs at the gym, both are working out so your example wasn't a good one, since casual and tournament play are simply two ways you can play the game, in the same way home and the gym are two ways you can work out. Tournament play is directly related to the topic at hand.
Lifting weights isn't a competition. Playing against someone tournament or casual is a competition and people like to win.
Warhammer is temporary but the hobby is eternal.
Correct
As are the crippling overdraft and the Pile of Shame. 🤣
@@peterclarke7240 think of it like this once all the electonics explode and you cant play video games youl finaly finnish your painting.
@@Centurian-br4cs But how am I supposed to paint without my fancy-dancey desk lamp, my integrated head-mounted magnifier and light, and my podcasts?!?!?!?!
The Emperor is eternal
1) Buy a 3D printer.
2) Play older editions of Warhammer.
Problem solved.
Dont even need a printer..old rulebooks, codex etc stilll out there
This is the way.
Provided you can find people who also want to do that. Most just go with the newest edition.
Or play OPR and finally learn why alternating activations make a superior gaming system
@@Hellvine it does. I like sw Legion's token draw too. And I think there was a ww2 game that had both players put colored dice in 1 bag and draw from that?
I stopped playing 40k after 9th edition but I've been playing for 25 years. I lost interest after a lot of things like lore, prices, short edition window, too many books and putting a lot of my models into legends.
we almost have this problem here. we resolved that it is better to play prohammer 40k, lock the game in the 7th edition and that's it.
This is why we in my community have switched to 30k. Give it a go, if you have xenos there is rules for orks, eldar and necrons over at panoptica
Same here. I stopped at 8th. You should really try OPR.
My story is exactly the same.
Move on to historical wargames.
Warlord Games > Games Workshop
@@dallan7736 its because the soul of the old games workshop is in warlord games.
I just like cool looking minis. They can be proxied into any ruleset so long as a group of gamers are up for it
Hell, LIFE is temporary.
nice
the universe is temporary, everything needs to end
I have come to spread the good news of a now community led game, where you can enjoy Warhammer fantasy in its prime, Warmaster Revolution! A 10mm rank and flank game that has lists for all your fav warhammer armies and has only further developed as time went on, many armies supported now with 3d printed models, old models, or new models from other lines of games!
FORSAKE THE NEW AND EMBRACE THE OLD!
Never heard of it! I will definitely check that out. Thanks for sharing! I have been seriously flirting with the idea of 10 mm War gaming for a while.
@@LetsTalkTabletop I recommend you take a look, there are some really great 3D printed armies around nowadays. Check out the sculptor Forest Dragon for some really characterful little guys.
Tired of warhammer 40,000?
Switch to bolt action
the armies are insanely cheap compared to warhammer ($150 for a full army), there's like 1 new edition every 10 years (just entered 3rd ed), there's a wide range of countries and in each faction there's a wide range of army's (Germany for example has the fallschurmjäger, Afrika Corp, Waffen SS, Wermacht/heer), AND things can't go to legend since it's ww2
That tabletop gameplay is good and I'm very happy I switched
I've been playing wargames for about 30 years, and guess what? Warhammer has been at the top of the food chain that whole time, whether you like it or not.
Came here looking for this comment. I have been up and down the east coast as well as to midwestern gaming stores and 1 thing dominates the tabletop community in majority of stores.... Warhammer 40k.
Bro didn't watch the full video
@@SergeantDrastic damn right. TLDW 😂
I have been a Warhammer 40K player since the Rogue Trader days (1990). Over all those years, I built and painted five enormous armies. I gave up on the game in 2017, shortly after the release of 8th Edition. The endless rules bloat, supplements, formations, strategems, FAQs, rules drops/rises, and expensive rule books which became obsolete within a few months was just too much to take; I was done. Fortunately for me, I've been able to breathe new life into my model collection by playing games such as Grimdark Future, Stargrave, Space Weirdos, Xenos Rampant, etc. I'm blessed to be part of a gaming group which values gameplay over all else, and we're having a great time playing non-GW sci-fi games.
Warhammer can be forever for me, i've got 5th ed codex and rules, and 4 huge armies that will take me the rest of my life to paint :D
Haha, same! ☺️👍
There you go! No shame in that.
That's really where it is at. Old-Hammer. Once you've got the books and the models.. there is no end. In fact, as GW has gone off the rails the OLD-Hammer and OLD-HAMMER-40k is growing. People even playing 2nd edition again. That's really important.
Yes.
5th edition is godly, still have all my codexes and just proxy in the newer models.
@@sachiel4736 Even more, you can usually work out what points/stats a newer model could have and work from there. It might need a few playtests but, back in the day, there was a metric and basic concept behind various model's stats. Which means you can cook up new model stats without too much trouble. I was able to back port newer 40k Models and AOS models without much fuss by looking at "army purpose", what similar "role" models are there, what stats to do similar creatures have, at what points, and go from there. It's not hard. Most people these days want some higher authority to bend down on high to give them "rules". Being an old far, I have no such need. Reason, logic, deduction. The systems are not complex nor hard.
Been playing 40k since 1996. The last edition of 40k I actively played was 8th ed. 8th ed wasn't the greatest edition, but I could tolerate it. However ever since 9th dropped I have been trying to find people to play any of the older editions with (2nd ed to 7th ed), but not easy as there aren't many in my hometown.
However, I was able to get in touch with an old gaming buddy and we've got our first game of 4th ed lined up for this weekend. We haven't played 40k for many years, not since he dropped out prior to 5th ed, so looking forward to revisiting our old kill em all games: Guard vs Kroot Mercenaries. I'll try to go easy on him, as I have been playing Warhammer a lot longer than he has. (That and the Kroot mercenary army list doesn't have many anti-vehicle options.)
Although 5th ed is my favourite edition, which I play once or twice in a blue moon, index 40k in the beginning of 8th ed was incredibly fun! That was over after the first codex dropped. I gave 9th ed a chance, but power creep and ever increasing rules bloat thoroughly keep me away now.
Luckily there are lots of other fun games around 😊
pretty much my story, battletech was my eyes opening moment last year.
I'm glad you found what you really like!
Yea switched to X-wing years ago. Got tired of prices being so high.
My gaming group slowly switched to star wars legion and MESBG (which is GW’s best combat system) last year. Star wars is an alternate activation based game and a lot of the missions and conditions aren’t locked to one page meaning every game can have a different deployment and primary objective. The units in star wars are also able to be customized where it’s not too complex like 9th 40k but it’s enough that each squad of like clone troopers can perform different tasks. Star wars has a better initiative system too and your units could be activated at random if your orders aren’t well placed. Ive never played the same of star wars twice whereas in 40k at a certain point i can predict how a games gonna go based on my army and the opponents and the mission we’re playing
For me, I suggest to people who are interested or inquire about gaming, first, have close friends who may be interested as well, maybe you have a friend or two that are willing to try out some skirmish games with that necro/marine or marine/ork whatever box, whatever, necromunda. Think about your budget second, and third the time you have to invest to in assembly and how much painting, I suggest priming, a contrast, and just doing the guns, maybe playing around with simple basing. Then I say, do this for 6 months and if after that if you barely played but like the hobby side, great, if you liked the gaming side, cool, maybe buying third party used is for you. Or maybe you just like the lore.
You can be solo, you can have a small group, you can go find one, you can go competitive. Plenty of rule systems to choose from too. Don't let the high cost gatekeep you, buy reseller cheap, get third party minis cheap, or if you go all the way, get prints or learn to print your own. You can play warmhammer anyway if you want, and if you fall out of love with it for any reason, that's okay, Lord knows there are a multitude of valid reasons to do so.
I just play old editions, 4th ed 40k, and assume all lore past that point doesn't exist. Modern GW is a dumpster fire anyways.
Building a PDF/STL trove of the old material is almost as fun as collecting the minis!
Same
Warhammer 40k and Fantasy are my forever hobby, I've got 2nd / 3rd / 8th edition codex and rules, and 8 huge armies that will take me another 36 years to paint. (If I make it to 90) !! I still love to paint, convert, make scenery and still even listen to Bolt Thrower............ "My wife is very forgiving" ;-)
Warhammer addict of. 26 years. I genuinely cannot think of a single day in those 26 years that I did not think of or do something Warhammer related. It's dabbled in battle tech as a teenager and any other miniatures Games I've maybe played 2 or 3 of them, one game each and completely lost interest.
I like Battle Tech but those ABS minis they sell are really kind of crap IMO. The flashing on them is absolutely brutal and they turn out kind of doughy. At least they're cheap and battletech isn't a WYSIWYG game so you can play it with just like a blank hex base if you want to cheap out. You could 3D print better quality mechs.
Younger players need to listen to some wisdom here.
The GW churn is not about refinements or improvements; it's about shaking you down to spend MORE.
Other games are not like this. For example, One Page Rules has constant updates but they are not shifting the meta to newer models you need to buy and paint; it's actually about balance and tactics.
I hate the fact that Warhammer is the Gate Way for the majority of people because its genuinely the worst Wargaming experience on the market. I always think of all the people who I watch turn their nose up at GW store prices and never look back, and the people who do get into it that quickly burn out and quit never to be seen again. How many of those people could have just been given a box for another better game.
Too true.
Playing WH40K in the landscape of modern wargaming makes as much sense as playing Monopoly or Risk in the current golden age of board gaming.
Don't help the fandom not hobbie side of it is full of culture war people on both side that don't even play the game and scream at each other and paint the whole hobboe space as blue hair stereotypes or extreamly racist and toxic people.
@@stevebear6295 yeah most of the "warhammer fandom" are just culture warriors who would laugh at anyone who wargames
@ZorroVulpes yeah alot of people don't understand that fandom and hobbie are completely different spaces. In the warhammer community.
It's really sad. When you see people coming in from new space marine game going "why did they add black and asain space marines." While not even knowing what 1st born are ... 😞
Warhammer is temporary but the 40k is forever
Guilty of GW being my gateway into minis, but not because it was the first miniature war game I played, but just because of the availability of other players. As far as continued life, I basically stopped fantasy when AoS minced my vampire army. And each revision of my 40K Ork boys made me more and more disinterested.
I totally feel where you're coming from. I have been finding myself less and less interested in warhammer, although I will still play it with friends because it's a good way to keep my friend group. I don't hate it by any means, but I get sick of constantly being pulled around with new releases and updates and changes. Grown adults with real lives have a hard time keeping up with all the changes. I'd like to thank you for always commenting on my videos! As I'm sure you know, I greatly helps and it's always nice to hear from you. We seem to be on the same page.
I dropped out of Warhammer Fantasy when they released AoS. I have kept my Wood Elf miniatures for use in other games, but never have played AoS.
I haven't even glanced at the new release of "old world" Warhammer, either.
I've been a 40K Ork Player for decades, so I know exactly what you mean by the changes made in Orks for that game.
Fortunately for me, I already have all the models I need for multiple detachments of Orks within the game. What I have can be mixed or matched for various army lists. Since I'm a narrative player and don't play competitive or tournament games of 40K, it's much easier and less costly to just enjoy painting what I have and playing games with it.
Finding time to play has become a bigger factor due to my being self-employed and investing in expanding other businesses for my retirement. I'm working about 40 hours a week on my own businesses and an additional 15 to 20 hours a week on my business investments. I still manage to get a few minutes of painting models in every day and a game or two played per month. I also get 7 to 8 hours of sleep per night.
I have chosen not to spend my time watching TV, movies, scrolling mindlessly on my phone, or playing video games, though.
I’m not a fan of the price hikes, but a business will charge what the market is willing to pay. In my local scene, there are like four new players getting into the game for every one that stops playing.
Hopefully what this video talks about well happen sooner, rather than later, and Games Workshop will have to adjust. Because for the past two years, they have been a juggernaut and getting more and more people into the game at great rates.
Maybe this is a Canada only thing, but 40k here isn't really as bad cost-wise IMO. Maybe in the US it's just brutal. For instance I was looking at a game called Steel Rift and wanted to order some minis, it's a mech game. The box for 6 mechs with 80 weapon inserts was $80 USD. To ship it to Canada was a brutal $45USD for some reason which brought it up to $168 CAD. But I can buy a Combat Patrol for $160 CAD at my local stores so like.... is i40k really that out of line? Obviously in 40k you need way more models than just a single combat patrol for a 2000 point game.
@@Weaver_Games the issue there is that Combat Patrols are pretty much the only thing that's reasonably priced these days. And they may not even be worth buying, depending on what's in your faction's box. At this point it's cheaper to buy a 3d printer and print your own models than it is to build a new army. That's a problem.
The people leaving the hobby and selling all of their models have been a constant source of models for me through the years. I keep the models I want and resell the rest.
Many are still sealed in the boxes or open box, but still on the sprue.
Some are off sprue, but not assembled. Others are assembled, but not painted. Some are painted, but a cleaner will usually remove the paint. The more models I buy per lot, the lower the prices are.
I've even helped friends find the models they want at far lower than retail pricing. Finding vintage models is where the excitement truly lies though. The money I've made this way has more than paid for my hobby and is is what eventually led me to being self-employed with an online retail arbitrage business and expanding into other business models for my retirement.
Change isn't all that bad, as long as there is a new crop of players entering the hobby each year and a percentage of them making an exit from or transition within the hobby, anyone can do the same.
I've been playing Tyranids on and off for 22 years but still needed this video. I miss Warmachine though
Warhammer is temporary, BUT DUTY IS ETERNAL
I found what I like and stuck with it. Got all kill team 2018 books and plenty of models to play it. Still a lot of stuff unexplored in that game for me. Why would I care about newer editions and shit.
Also Mordheim. Mordheim is forever
The lore is so overwritten at this point too. When you get to the point you feel the need to add an 'A' to front of 'Elf' it's probably time to move on. Warhammer was far more exciting in the 80s and 90s when it was still figuring itself out.
Elves are called "Aelves" in AoS probably because of the Chapterhouse lawsuit.
All the AOS renames are to do with lawsuits
@@johncasarino5627 I've been into the hobby 30 years. I remember the really drastic name changes happened shortly after the Chapterhouse lawsuit. The precedent continued when the AoS names came along.
Tossed in the towel on gw in 2020... started in 94...
The games i am currently playing weekly.
Infinity, battletech, asoiaf, mcp and shatter point
Although i think asoif maybe looking to drop into the "as often as i can" group if the player base doesn't pick back up this fall/winter. We have only had 3 to 5 people including me showing up to games nights.
Games i play as often as i can.
godtear, malifaux, conquests, kings of war, Mordhiem
Love asoiaf! 😊
@@dr3dg352I do and I don't... I have been enjoying it, but I am not happy about s5... I play greyjoy, boltons and Neutrals. One of the 3 works well... the others need help.
The game won't go away just change days and locations, there are 6 people at my gaming club that all play. 8 if you include my brother and I. I just like keeping games active in the lgs, sadly i am the only one from our group that is free Tuesday nights.
But back to asoiaf... s5...
Jokin, should have retained overwatch as a Neutrals/stormcrow only skill... the Commander and attachment cards with the same ability is just lazy and a unnecessary nerf.
Balon is still gross I don't know how jokin got done so dirty and balon just became more selective (I'm lying the targets don't change unless the game requiresa massive pivot) of what is coming back, and honestly there are games I just waste the 5 oints as i never even need a unit recalled.
The Bolton update... ugh... the problems still exist... the updates layouts are just sloppy and the art change is weird.
honestly I am really curious about brotherhood without banners, my brothers next faction... if they are not a mess like boltons I am not going to be amused. But it will be a different look than starks, I hope, double or triple cav all the time gets... boring.
I'm more into the boxed games. GW does some really good stuff there, especially with the Barnes and Noble stuff.
Thank you for the warhammer and relationship advice. Two things I never thought I would need a year ago, let alone together.
You are so welcome. Haha
Started playing 3rd edition. Quit at 5th. Came back at 10 when Lion El’Jonson dropped. I don’t expect to be big into it like I was last time but I’ll always enjoy the lore and putting armies together.
You know what they say “all good things come to an end”
40K started me into wargaming 31 years ago, I will never forget that. It is totally incapable of keeping my attention anymore. New editions, new books, constant points adjustments are both tiring and pointless for a veteran gamer IMO. The GW specialist games line especially Legions Imperialis and Necromunda are far more rewarding from a hobby stand point IMO.
Great video, Scott! I absolutely started with 40k myself, and had something of an on/off relationship. Probably about to go back to finally try and collect the Sisters of Battle army of my dreams, but in the meantime something I've realized about myself is I strongly prefer fantasy to sci-fi. Throughout this year I've been playing A Song of Ice & Fire and having *so* much fun with my House Lannister army, and have also tried Kill Team to get a perfect dose of Dark Eldar. 💜 But the main project right now is to collect a dark elf army in Warhammer: The Old World so I can start a narrative campaign with the guy I like. 🥰
Hey good for you! Glad you found something you enjoy. Life is too short not to.
Good perspective. I don't know if I'll ever play the game, but I like painting and restoring old junk that looks cool is exciting.
I got back into it for the painting/collecting. The rules are too obtuse for me, and they change too often. I just have a really passive job, and I need something to pass the time. So I paint like 25-30 hours a week at work 😂
Lucky you. haha.
I also switched to just painting which I found more enjoyable than the game. I also don't get a lot of time to paint and I try to paint at a high level which takes forever - so by time I'd even finish enough minis to approximate a full army the rules would be outdated lol.
This coincides with the fact that a lot of veteran players in my local hobby store stick to the specialist games of GW instead of their mainline games.
I have all the materials i need for 9th edition and 3 armies. They cannot uncollect my stuff.
im still heartbroken over warmachine and hordes seeming to wane in popularity--i remember when people were saying it was going to be almost as big as warhammer...
still LOVE the universe, but yeah...
In my area wm/h 2nd edition absolutely was. And then Privateer Press noticed, that overpowered models sold well. Then they noticed, that you don't even need new models, just write a broken theme list with old and unsold stock.
And boom, 90% of my wm/h buddies stopped playing that bs.
I thought I'd give them another chance about a year ago. Same bs, initial fun was quickly squashed by OP stuff. Now I'm cured of the wm/h curiosity 😂
@@minipaintingforyou hopefully someone else picks up the rules they had for the warmachines and monsters because the way their health work, the activation, the abilities, all of that was absolute gold imo
I got into warhamm at the end of 2nd edition. Still playing now and then, most often 3rd edition 40k or 6th edition fantasy.
No way do I chase the latest whatever... And yeah I'm a hobby butterfly, kings of war, bolt action, black powder and countless others...
Warhammer is an old love, but not the only one.
This is such a great summary I literally was just talking to my friends about this the other day
Thank you!
That big stonefortress golem dude looks awesome!
Thanks! 3d printed
A third option is play more than one thing and also you can modify any version of 40k any way you like.
4 years in and that's it for me. Went to bolt action, and will now only play with OPR rules.
Minis are way too expensive! They gave a price increase twice in the space of one year.
If your game gets "updates", walk away immediately
I love my models, but I’m swapping to one page and I will keep my GW models and use them in the new game
This is the way.
Stopped at 2nd edition. But love One Page Rules and I’m back baby!
i had the itch, and was looking into building an army around this one unit. I got it to "work" (on paper, not sure on play lol), but I try to put it all in my cart to see what it costed me and oh boy. I can buy a PS5 Pro with that kind of money. And I will admit, I throw money of that caliber every now and then (games, airsoft, model kits, PC), but that slap back into reality is painful lol. Even when you realize, that you still have to spend like another 100 or so for the manual stuff for the army.
I mean, I admire everyone keeping it alive for god know how long (I remember it when I was a child looking at the table of armies), but god damn. How do people start this without getting units that you aren't interested in lol
There are other games I'd prefer to play, but I play 40k because it's what gets events at the hobby store I like, and I'll continue to play it as long as that's the case. I'll push for more variety, but there's always going to be more push for more 40k than for less 40k. I'll get in a game of Malifaux with friends on the side when I can, but it's really organized leagues that get me excited to play a wargame.
Something I learn about the hobby and WH40k is that: never follow the competitive play; play the edition you are more comfortable(or play with the rules you find more fun to use). Also try other games that maybe look cool or the minis look fun to paint.
That's exactly what the hobby should be rather than playing what is meta or what everyone at the shop is playing.
Trying to meta chase 40k will bankrupt you for sure.
@@Weaver_Games people have bad priorities in life it's not new. Some people cycle through armies like toilet paper.
This concept is why I quite playing subscription based online video games and went back to Games Workshop and it's product, Warhammer - it's less costly than most other hobbies.
The first tabletop miniature wargames I was introduced to were historical. I discovered them at a gaming convention that I attended due to my interest in D&D in the late 80's, early 90's.
I came back to the hobby after a 15yr break. I came back to play Kill Team, but have expanded to 40K. But to be honest. Small games are where I'm at. I would love to play moon stone, but there isnt anyone else that is interested where i live. So looks like im stuck with GW games at present but now play Bloodbowl, Warcry, Aeronautica but have just bought the Boarding Actions rules as this looks like my way of playing 40K
Did not chase the meta, went with the meme "Play what you like" . Spend extra time and money to make my dudes look extra Tatar/White Scar. 7 years building , saving up, no other hobby, no spending money on anything else. And then 10th came an all my army is legends. In hindsight l am not rich enough to play w40k the proper way. 7 years kind of a wasted to play 7 games in 9th ed and 3 in 10th. And out of those maybe 2-3 were fun. A bad hobby/general investment. If l tool the money bought a tablet or new phone, l would have more fun per hour. What stings the most is the thought of having 4 month salaries frozen in an army with models l can't use.
Hmm, ok so you only played a few games, but if you didn't enjoy the 7 years (!) you spent building, painting and hobbying your army, then yeah that was a massive waste of time. I have a hard time believing someone would actually commit to something they don't enjoy for that long though?
I always say that 40k is an expensive game but an affordable hobby. Keeping up with the rule changes, especially if you're trying to play at tournament levels will take some serious cash. If you just want to paint cool minis and you just buy a single box at a time then build and paint it before you buy the next box it's really not that expensive at all in terms of adult hobbies.
Love the Magfest 2018 shirt!
Thanks!
The two things that killed mainstream 40k for me are the Price and the Politics. GW is charging absurd prices for what is ultimately a luxury, non-essential product. They're reported profit margins in excess of 30% some years, which is incredible for most businesses let alone a toy company. Their politics are absolute garbage; I could ignore the staff's personal politics but once they start injecting that trash into the lore, I'm out.
Needed this video as I'm justifying why I should keep painting my Deathwatch when I have no motivation or official rules for them in Kill team and looking like 40k.
I've been into it seeing editions change for both games and they keep taking away my fun. I'm kinda burnt out. Even my partner asked if I was really getting back into it. It's been like you said a relationship but a toxic one.
Not sure what time do. I don't think one page rules will make me feel any better.
There are exactly 1 million independent and alternative games out there. I am positive you can find one that you enjoy. On a secret note, my mass battle game where you set out the units the way you want to using any miniatures from fantasy or sci-fi should be coming out in about 2 months. Keep an eye out for Mass Brutality. I was also pretty burned out with Warhammer until I started making this game and play testing it has been a blast. One of my favorite things to do is play age of Sigmar armies versus 40K armies. I'm making a Starfleet army and the Rock people in front of me in the video are for my Dirtkind army. That walking Castle is a transport and a giant monster
@@LetsTalkTabletop Thx for the suggestion. From hearing you talk about, it's sounds awesome! I've been looking at indie games and thinking of making my own at this point. I might even make a Deathwatch Co-op skirmish game to scratch my itch
Go for it!
You know who will never abandon warhammer? Guys who want female space marines. Well at least until they get them
My biggest gripe with the wargaming scene is how many people get stuck in the Warhammer 40k rat race and proceed to either burn out or stay miserable. I've seen oeople cooe and say 10th is balanced but I personally think if your rules need to focus on constant balance updates then it fails a stand-alone. I enjoy Wargaming when its non modern 40k,or okaying different games frim different companies. To me 40k is the call of duty of wargaming. Its the biggest nist popular that people refuse to stop buying because all their friends and lgs play.
I am so glad that I only like Warhammer because of the miniatures and painting them and such. I have zero interest on playing, so changes to the codex, ruleset or armies doesn't really apply to me.
You found what you like! Glad to see it.
Thanks for the great video, i'm absolutley with you and now building my own houses and ruins and play them with OPR.
But sorry, one thing annoys me. The 2 must be on the backside of the 5. The dice must shown a 1 or 6, instead of the 2. 😉
Haha. Yeah I know it's not correct.
I played for 7 years, stopped playing for 12 years. Recently picked up a combat patrol.
I recently got into warhammer and have been having tons of fun diving into the video games and books. But through the research and learning I’ve been doing about the tabletop, I got out before I ever got in. Everyone can do whatever makes them happy, but I personally will not be shoveling my money into one of the most consumer-vampirizing products I have ever seen
Me looking at unpainted (and cheap) 3D painted figures on esty
Sounding a lot like heresy.
been writing my own wargame rules and its been a blast so far :)
Lucky for me, the Warhammer hype only lasted me 2 months, and realized it wasn't a good game, just a gateway wargame, just like internet explorer is your gateway browser.
And soon, I went on to play much much better wargames like MESBG, Legion, ASOIAF, Bolt Action and Quar.
So, I'm very glad I wasn't sucked in hard into Warhammer and realized what it was. Best part is, I bought just 3 boxes, so I didn't spend a lot. I mean... I did spend some quite some money on those boxes, but considering the hobby... I didn't spend much haha
I started wargaming with Bolt Action 3 years ago, but 90% of my gaming club are ex Warhammer players telling that 40k is the worst wargaming experience ever
10th edition completely destroyed the 40k hobby for me its THAT bad
People complaining about new rules and books, honestly, just wait and then eventually download them as a PDF from the internet, that's what I've been doing for a while lol
I actually went to Warhammer after playing some of the ffg games (xwing then legion). I really love the models but man, I am now at the point where I have the issue with constant rules churn. At first I didn’t care because xwing and legion had it too. Now I care because I have kids and I can’t be paying so much attention and it’s nice to just pick something back up and not realize it’s all new.
My play group is still Warhammer, so I’ll probably stick with it as I can. I’m redirecting my money into a minis agnostic game I can play at home though (given I don’t make as many game days) Rangers of Shadow Deep
My first Edition of warhammer was 9th. I and my gaming group have not updated to 10th, and that has mitigated a huge part of the cost problem since we are not spending 150+$ on books. Sure the models are still costly, but since we aren’t updating we can 3d print without worry since we wouldn’t be going to tourneys anyway XD. (Not that we would have before mind you)
I have always watched warhammer, but I am old enough to see the sales trick.
Most hobbies end up being a waste of time and money.
Companies try and sell you a fantasy that it will all be fun, sunshine and rainbows. You will paint minis, make friends, play some fun games, and live happily ever after.
Then you get into the hobby get scammed, get bullied by other people, the game isn't fun at all and it was awkward as hell, it takes a bunch of time to organize any thing and so you give up, life gets in the way, the end.
This is how it is for most hobbies not just warhammer though.
Usually the fantasy they sell you is like the complete opposite of what ends up happening for the majority of people.
Sure there might be SOME people who genuinely vibe with people and you form a cool group and live happily ever after, not likely.
It's sad, but that's how life is.
Same with Magic the Gathering, for me. I quit buying new shit in like 2016ish and still play with friends. I actually just bought some of my first 40k minis the other day and the sales rep for GamesWorkshop was pushing the new rules/new sets and I was like "I don't even have anyone to play with, I just wanna paint minis."
edit: this video is fantastic btw
Thanks!
As a socially awkward nerd, I feel like we are the most vulnerable ones that society tries to take advantage of. Sucks.
I find 40k to be orders of magnitude cheaper than MTG honestly. Wargaming players crying they spend $600 on an army when they could instead spend $600 on 60 cards lol
@@Weaver_Games I just kept making my own decks in magic, but refound the love of painting and a friend to play with. I don't need armies, I just need one army I enjoi
That's why they invented House Rules
Hey, it’s my ol’ buddy, Scott!
We're all friends here!
Started playing with 9th edition. Loving 10th edition. Much tighter and balanced gameplay. Got into the lore in 1997, but back then the gameplay was rubbish and i stuck woth other games.
Hated my Laviathan going to legends, but i love 40k and i'm very much looking farwards to thecrest of 10th and the coming 11th edition. I really don't agree with all the complaining and anti GW rants. I often get the feeling its more a difference of peoples nostalgia conflicting with those who enjoy the balanced competitive aspect of the game- like i do.
That's funny, your story is more of a reverse than most people's. But I'm glad you found a system you enjoy. Even if it took decades. LOL
Thanks to One Page Rules, I can take my Black Templars anywhere ! ! !
I'm only just starting to get some curiosity about wargaming. One of my main hobbies is tabletop RPGs, and I can't help but feel a sense of solidarity across different hobbies. Just immediately realizing "oh y'all ALSO have to deal with a single company who's monopoly strangles the entire hobby." Really hard not to see parallels with GW / Warhammer and WotC / D&D.
Glad for what I have and will keep my stuff until I pass it on to my family.
Loved 9th edition for the buffet of rules and builds, but with price hikes, losing models and the crap that is 10th I am done getting stuff for now.
Kill Team especially with terrain sets is what I am focused on except for FOMO stuff, screw that.
In the 80s there was microarmour. I noticed earlier this year a ww2 miniatures game
I decided recently to get back into 40K after some time being away from it because I had a drive to paint miniatures for more than dnd. Focusing on one faction solely has made it easier for me.
Who is that big rock colossus miniature youve got there? Looks amazing!!
It's part of a set of free STL files called either dirtkind or earthkind. Although I made him about four times bigger than he normally would be.
Actually my gateway game was Battle Tech. 40K was my second 😊
1st wargame i ever played was Axis and Allies Mini back in like 2006
They lost me with the constant editions and lost my friend with their atrocious balance. But I still love the lore, and wont play or collect anything else. I’ve just transitioned to being a painter/collector and story reader, but I find I hardly paint anymore because my work changed and I have no time.
I noticed the Shorehammer sign behind you. Does the convention have a dealers area? I could find nothing on the website about it
90% of our space is dedicated to gaming tables, so we do allow some vendors but it's not a big portion of the convention. We have some wargaming related vendors. As of this year, we will probably be at capacity for vendors, but you can email us at shorehammer@gmail.com for more information or to get on the waiting list. We don't have anybody on the waiting list at the moment. It's not a huge convention, but the vendors seem to do pretty well..
It’s important you’re free from lust for new models all the time, as this is going to burn you out.
As a TTRPG roleplayer, this is the opposite for us. Like an old dusty RPG? We play those forever. Heck, people are still playing Dave Arneson's pre-D&D campaign.
I don't buy the new stuff, I adapt it to 5th edition and play that way. Knights feel like gods on the field when puny guns can't scratch them
the biggest obstacle to any game will be finding people to play with. consolidation is inevitable. the market will only really be able to support a few games. Warhammer, DND, MTG; they come with a bunch of people to meet and play against if you invest in those products.
X-Wing Second Edition is the best miniature game ever; one of the best games ever. But it's also dead. It doesn't matter how nice it all is; without someone to play with, it's shelved permanently. The big brands fill this niche. For the most part, at least they hold some of their value or use when you buy in, at least for a time.
People inevitably always go "but other games are better" and they might be correct, but most people have to do some work to find a match of 40k these days; how likely are you to find someone to play when you buy into an obscure game system?
Best possible solution is to find a hobby-husband/wife bff to split every box set and play all of the smaller games with.
Just play Oldhammer. 2nd Edition 40k. Duh. Easy.
To this day I play mostly 5/6e 40k, 6e fantasy and my favorite game of all time mordheim. The only thing i like in gw are the new maruaders army coz they fit my aesthetic
I have really bad memory issues and I can’t keep up with the rules and it’s frustrating to me, and others around me. It’s a bit too complicated for me. I do like to paint miniatures though.
Well I'm glad you found something you like in the hobby! An alternative for forgetfulness might be to use q cards or a cheat sheet printed out with all the relevant rules. I am also not very good with rules a lot of times and anytime I went to a tournament I would have all of the relevant information printed out so I didn't have to rifle to the book mid game.
@@LetsTalkTabletop that’s a good idea. Thank you
Great Video- I subscribed :) That is a good message. It's better to look around and find a game that works for you than stick to something till it drives you to quit.
Been playing 40K/Fantasy since the early 90s (RT). The earlier editions were much cooler (at least through my rose colored glasses) I like most of the 40K editions through 5th, but that is when things started going south for me. 6th was a mess and 7th was the worst edition I can think of. I had hope with 8th, but GW has to destroy good things (there is no money in making a tight everlasting ruleset) so it went to **** . Then we got 9th and 10th both painfully bad. I could go into fantasy, but you can see where I am going with this so I'll stop here.
2 years ago I discovered OPR (I am sure you have heard of it) and never went back. Now I can use all my GW, Mantic, Warmahordes, and anything else I have. All with 1 system! I can even do Fleet battles with my BFG stuff. I ended up doing the patron thing to get access to stl files and more importantly the unit creator app so I can make my own units and entire armies.
Also- what is that big rock monster on your table?
@@theroguegeneralhunter2206 A stone golum.
It's a free pdf from a free army called dirtkind or earthkind I think. I edited it and made it bigger.
Thank you for subscribing and chiming in! I am also happy you found your favorite system to play.
3:00 Great Point! Great Video!
Glad you enjoyed it
@@LetsTalkTabletop Yeah I started the Same, and now for me its Bolt Action, A Song of Ice and Fire and Marvel Crisis Protocol.
Started and 3rd and played until 6th. Got into malifaux, though my local scene just turned me off with their ultra meta, ultra competitiveness. Which just brings out a side of me I don’t like, because then it becomes about winning rather than enjoying a game with like minded nerds. Now I do fencing and gunpla
Great video. Totally agree with everything you said.
25 or more years of warhammer, first game ever probably 33 years ago.. …
I’m into Warhammer for the lore and artwork, not really the game itself. Most people I know are mostly the same. It’s just too expensive.