Phosphorou deserves his ranking. He keeps the game alive with all of these new strategies. He inspires all of us - the old fogies like me from the 1999 Age of Kings days and all the new gamers now experiencing this game for the first time with the Definitive Edition. Thank you, T90 and please give my thanks to Phosphoru as well! Keep doing what you are both doing as it continues to make me smile and humour and laughter will always be the best medicine around!
Nah there was a prior video T90 covered where a player used a siege tower and stuffed it full of chakram throwers I think and would just zoom around the enemy base picking off villagers and even the cav could barely catch him.
LOL, this is reminiscent of SlayerS_'Boxer' in Starcraft whose favorite unit was the dropship. He would drop Siege Tanks (which fire instantly) to shoot at Reavers and Dragoons, which would shoot back at the tanks (higher priority than the unarmed dropship), and he would pick the tanks back up before the slow-moving shots hit them, then drop the tanks to fire again, rinse and repeat.
@@Milktube The Dragoons can, and the Reaver scarabs also explode harmlessly under the dropship anyway. I didn't think there was any point in being pedantic.
I love phosphoru so much. Ever since you started this particular legend series, he's been like an inspiration. To see this level of innovation in such an old game is amazing. Before him it feels like there's been meta shifts, sure, but nothing on this level. Other "new" strategies just feel like reskins or taking advantage of something that only 1-2 civs can do because they are the only ones who get a specific unit, so it wasn't so much of a new strategy, but just playing the new civ (or reworked civ) how they were supposed to be used. But this...sure only turks get Jannisaries, but in theory this can be any foot archer/hand cannoneer, though obviously gunpowder better since they don't need many upgrades and have insane base stats. I can see it being potentially kinda crazy with Franks or anyone else with a unique unit that is a ranged melee damage unit. Unlike other "new" strategies, phosphoru's stuff just feels so...fresh.
Someone did this with a siege tower on a nomad game semi-recently in a pro game I swear. IIRC Dave was casting it. I feel like it was against Yo maybe. It wasn't to this extent but they definitely used it in a "new" way and caused a bunch of chaos. IIRC it was just karambits jumping in and out to run from towers and archers.
There was a recent T90 vid with Gbetos and a siege tower that was similar. Is this the one you were thinking of? ruclips.net/video/41L4qmGnb5w/видео.html
@@Memphisko How about just keeping the janissaries out of range of the TC, to guard the rams? The hopping is useful against other ranged units and to avoid castle fire, but not that useful under the TC. Janissaries can even contribute damage to the TC while out of range.
@@EliasHasle yeah why not, but maybe he tried and found he has accuracy issues or cannot range all vils from afar. He is surely refining every step of his strats. But the market was there, and blue was using it. It would hurt for sure. Maybe even killing few farms before tc to cripple eco. Many things can be tried with such strats! Fun to play, not so much against 11
This is awesome! This strategy reminds me very much of a micro intensive warp prism+immortal technique that took over the top levels of SC2 a year after launch. I'm not at all disappointed to see this in AoE2, and I hope it can become more and more useful (maybe for side raids or something like that?)
Wait, that's one of my favorite strats! I'm not nearly good enough to get it to work well, but I've always wondered why pros don't use rams like this more often
@@tobiasbadstuber7495 Huh, that's an interesting point. The Janissariy is the only unit with 0 attack delay that can fit in a Ram. Except that actually only applies to Elite Janissaries. In castle age they have 0.4 seconds attack delay, which is longer than both Crossbowmen and Chu Ko Nu. And Hand Cannoneers, but those aren't available in castle age so they're not relevant to Turks. Idk if this kind of strat is relevant in imperial age at all, when players have probably massed bigger armies and can rush down your Rams.
Since villagers were the real threat... But stopping his own villager production after dark age to go all in on the enemy's starting TC is not exactly sustainable. Scotty would have ample opportunity to expand elsewhere.
Heavy investment for blacksmith, siege workshop, archery range, barracks. Plus 5 archers who with fletching can only two shot vills. May be worth a try, but it seems like scouts could also stop it dead in the water.
I think the key with this strat is the high dps of Janissary or gbetto paired with a nice defensive garrison unit. Seems like archers don't have high enough DPS for the thing they encounter because you are limited by the garrison space in your rams to 6.@@EliasHasle
@@3munchenman I suspect that it is specifically good for janissaries, since gbetos seem to have a much longer attack delay (while I have not checked this). I would unironically be interested in seeing this done with Bohemians too, since they get HC in castle age. They could do it without a castle. PS: But they would need a blacksmith, an archery range, a siege workshop, and a university, several of which they could skip in a typical FC to Hussite wagons build, or even all of them in a scouts into Hussite wagons build.
This was meta in starcraft 2 at some point in history: using a slow but powerfull unit (tank) with the flying dropship to protect the tank between shots, i didn't know you could load and unload stuff so quick in age as well, that's good.
coz cav will always be meta and render such a game style useless. it can only mayyyybbee work if ur doing it against a stubborn archer player who refuses to change. but even then if ur just stalling with it and not getting anything done whilst throwing res out the window, might as well just resign.
Alexios Komnenos is a great inclusion, absolute legend. John and Manuel Komnenos were also really cool - a brief era of greatness in the declining empire post Manzikert.
I had a buddy in college who totally invented this strat in our LAN games to counter my longbow swarms, but he didn't have the micro or eco to pull it off
Hear me out. Cheaper castles with Franks or Incas. You can potentially hit exposed resources with axemen or even Kamayuk. Might as well mix in some siege towers if you want to prioritize damage to units instead of buildings. This and the other strat with siege towers have so much potential I'm getting excited.
Archer armor could also be a useful investment before ramming the castle, I think. It would not take extra siege workshop time, but would steal some food from the janissary production.
Is this strategy only working because the zero frame delay of the Janissaries' shots? Or it can be applied to other civilizations as well, with archers or hand cannoneers for example?
since castle focus rams and micro will be needed, it should be viable - janissaries are just early high damage ranged units I think all teuton players used rams to move etk/tk into enemy lies/bases since they were way faster when full than knights... Before they got the movement speed buff It was either rams or base creep to get them into play basicly xD
@@vipingeorgeabraham3835 You're right, my mistake. But that means that ranged units like janissaries can reload in the ram and instantly shoot after going out of it, which makes this strat universal among range units, and with a very good micro, a strong strategy.
All of these years later, people finally understanding why you can garrison units inside of rams. As someone who's always known you could do this kind of thing, this is actually hilarious. Honestly, kinda wishing I'd spent more of my gaming career on competitive RTSes now instead of other genres. But then I remember that I can't be bothered to force myself to enjoy intensive microing and hotkey spamming to the extent necessary for high-level RTSes, and thus wouldn't have all of the world records and world firsts I have to my name...
Amazing! Attacking the TC and castle was the mistake though. Just take out all the houses and the market, eventually when all else is destroyed go for the tc imo
What is a ram filled with jenisaries? An improved bohemian Hussite wagon that cannot be converted, has higher dps and 1-2 extra range. That was very clever
Phosphoru is such a genius. My only regret here is that microsoft is maybe going to target turks for another nerf again, my fav civ. I hate when they target niche, map specific, non-meta, hard to play civs for nerfs.
With 20/20 hindsight vision it looks like Phosphoru should have destroyed enemy market and keep Scotty away from his main gold, then continue harassing him (attack monastery?) until he has a slightly bigger deathball for the TC, then it looked like very possible GG! Without that market and wood to sell, Scotty was in big doo-doo! Using that micro strat like that is impressive, too bad imho WP rushed under enemy TC so early. Feels like a bit of economic warfare first could have quickly put Scotty out of res, he could only take stuff under TC and castle safely! Great game, I hope Phosphoru perfected this method since then and that we'll see more of it 😄
I feel a player like Viper would be super dangerous with a strat like this. Cause he absolutely would be attacking weakpoints and doing this micro while his eco continues toward elite janny and such. Heck, he'd probably have a vil in the ram for repairing it and quickwalling and stuff.
We have hussite wagons at home.
The hussite wagons at home:
lmaoooo
bahahaha
damn! your mom can cook because hussite wagons at home are 10x better!
The famed Turkish artisanally deconstructed Hussite Wagon
I love this comment so much
Funniest definition of this strat.
LMAO you're right, he basically just emulated it using rams.
I spent my childhood using rams as APCs and here's phosphoru making it meta.
Apc? I haven’t watched the video yet what’s that mean
@@WestHaddnin Armored Personnel Carrier
It only felt right given command and conquer around those times.
@@guyincognito1406 now I want to mine some tiberium 😂
@@justalonesoul5825 Unit ready.
Mechanized infantry in AOE2. Incredible lol. Still seeing innovations in a 20 year old game.
26 years old
Phosphorou deserves his ranking. He keeps the game alive with all of these new strategies. He inspires all of us - the old fogies like me from the 1999 Age of Kings days and all the new gamers now experiencing this game for the first time with the Definitive Edition. Thank you, T90 and please give my thanks to Phosphoru as well! Keep doing what you are both doing as it continues to make me smile and humour and laughter will always be the best medicine around!
Bro really invented drive-by shootings in AoE2
Nah there was a prior video T90 covered where a player used a siege tower and stuffed it full of chakram throwers I think and would just zoom around the enemy base picking off villagers and even the cav could barely catch him.
You forgot hussite wagons
@@mischiviousteefmonster3900 I think he means because its gunpowder
I almost always did this back in the day. Now the people are doing it professionally instead of my slow ass xD
puhahahaha
I would love to see the "distasteful" games against Phosphoru.
If you dont want to cast them, send them to Dave. He'll do it.
Dude yessssssss
LOL, this is reminiscent of SlayerS_'Boxer' in Starcraft whose favorite unit was the dropship. He would drop Siege Tanks (which fire instantly) to shoot at Reavers and Dragoons, which would shoot back at the tanks (higher priority than the unarmed dropship), and he would pick the tanks back up before the slow-moving shots hit them, then drop the tanks to fire again, rinse and repeat.
Reavers can not attack dropships under any circumstances, reavers can only attack ground units, while dropships are flying units.
@@Milktube The Dragoons can, and the Reaver scarabs also explode harmlessly under the dropship anyway. I didn't think there was any point in being pedantic.
We could go pedantic but how deep you gotta have your head inside an ass to be THAT comment ^_^
Yes! There was an equivalent Strat in SC2 with warp prisms and immortals too. Blew my mind when I first saw it.
Was going to comment this. Also reaver shuttle micro which is still a huge component of Brood War
1:55 You had the perfect chance to drop a SCOTTY DOESNT KNOW right there....
I know!!!! He even built up to it...
honestly I was so disappointed
That was crazy with the rams. That has a lot of applications outside of the turks.
I d like to try that with Malian gbeto
@@wandraak58 or chakram thrower.
Janissary have 0 attack delay so they are best for it
So.... Don't tell scotty, scotty doesn't know 😂
PepeLaugh Scotty no sabe
Came here for this 😂
I guess I would rather fight this than another Mongol or frank scout rush 😂
Mongol pickers are the worst 😂
Euro trip is such an underrated film. I still sing Scotty doesn't know from time to.time.
the only reason i went to bratislava is because of eurotrip movie.. haha
I think it's rated.
Bringing the Starcraft shuttle/dropship micro meta to Age of Empires lol
Dude's airlifted some siege cannons in his day for sure.
I love phosphoru so much. Ever since you started this particular legend series, he's been like an inspiration. To see this level of innovation in such an old game is amazing. Before him it feels like there's been meta shifts, sure, but nothing on this level. Other "new" strategies just feel like reskins or taking advantage of something that only 1-2 civs can do because they are the only ones who get a specific unit, so it wasn't so much of a new strategy, but just playing the new civ (or reworked civ) how they were supposed to be used. But this...sure only turks get Jannisaries, but in theory this can be any foot archer/hand cannoneer, though obviously gunpowder better since they don't need many upgrades and have insane base stats. I can see it being potentially kinda crazy with Franks or anyone else with a unique unit that is a ranged melee damage unit.
Unlike other "new" strategies, phosphoru's stuff just feels so...fresh.
Someone did this with a siege tower on a nomad game semi-recently in a pro game I swear. IIRC Dave was casting it. I feel like it was against Yo maybe.
It wasn't to this extent but they definitely used it in a "new" way and caused a bunch of chaos. IIRC it was just karambits jumping in and out to run from towers and archers.
There was a recent T90 vid with Gbetos and a siege tower that was similar. Is this the one you were thinking of?
ruclips.net/video/41L4qmGnb5w/видео.html
@@mochafrigate1 I was trying to remember what game I saw this type of thing in recently. Thank you! I love these shenanigans.
Closest thing to Hussite Wagons actually being in the game
My favourite colossus c:
if Phosphoru went for the TC I think it would have worked, crazy strategy!
I think market first, tc second with more rams would be strong.
@@Memphisko How about just keeping the janissaries out of range of the TC, to guard the rams? The hopping is useful against other ranged units and to avoid castle fire, but not that useful under the TC. Janissaries can even contribute damage to the TC while out of range.
@@EliasHasle yeah why not, but maybe he tried and found he has accuracy issues or cannot range all vils from afar. He is surely refining every step of his strats. But the market was there, and blue was using it. It would hurt for sure. Maybe even killing few farms before tc to cripple eco. Many things can be tried with such strats! Fun to play, not so much against 11
Scotty doesn't know!
This is awesome! This strategy reminds me very much of a micro intensive warp prism+immortal technique that took over the top levels of SC2 a year after launch. I'm not at all disappointed to see this in AoE2, and I hope it can become more and more useful (maybe for side raids or something like that?)
“Scotty doesn’t know”
Wait, that's one of my favorite strats! I'm not nearly good enough to get it to work well, but I've always wondered why pros don't use rams like this more often
Old school teuton players: Lets use this ram to move the etk into enemys
Phosphoru: Hold my beer
I wonder if that would work with gbeto, infantry makes rams faster and increases their attack
i think it doesnt work because gbetto dont have 0 attack delay
@@tobiasbadstuber7495 Huh, that's an interesting point. The Janissariy is the only unit with 0 attack delay that can fit in a Ram.
Except that actually only applies to Elite Janissaries. In castle age they have 0.4 seconds attack delay, which is longer than both Crossbowmen and Chu Ko Nu. And Hand Cannoneers, but those aren't available in castle age so they're not relevant to Turks. Idk if this kind of strat is relevant in imperial age at all, when players have probably massed bigger armies and can rush down your Rams.
It works, this guy does that shit too with gbetos, I've win agaisnt him using only archers
sooo, hussite wagon with extra steps
this is brilliant
HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT
Jesse we need more phosphoru
I remember doing something like that as a kid back in the day. I love seeing it done to such perfection all these years later
More of these games, please! Can’t wait! I’m down for the (slightly) more salty videos if it means more Phosphorus
YES!!!! YES!!!!!!! I was waiting for a ram strategy for so long! I was sure it is possible!
i think phosphoru should have kept attacking the tc, not switch to the castel
Since villagers were the real threat... But stopping his own villager production after dark age to go all in on the enemy's starting TC is not exactly sustainable. Scotty would have ample opportunity to expand elsewhere.
A compilation of some rage chats vs phosphorus at the end would actually be quite funny.
Can one do that with Cuman rams and archers in Feudal?
Heavy investment for blacksmith, siege workshop, archery range, barracks. Plus 5 archers who with fletching can only two shot vills. May be worth a try, but it seems like scouts could also stop it dead in the water.
@@3munchenman A few surprise spears in the rams, though...
I think the key with this strat is the high dps of Janissary or gbetto paired with a nice defensive garrison unit. Seems like archers don't have high enough DPS for the thing they encounter because you are limited by the garrison space in your rams to 6.@@EliasHasle
@@3munchenman I suspect that it is specifically good for janissaries, since gbetos seem to have a much longer attack delay (while I have not checked this).
I would unironically be interested in seeing this done with Bohemians too, since they get HC in castle age. They could do it without a castle. PS: But they would need a blacksmith, an archery range, a siege workshop, and a university, several of which they could skip in a typical FC to Hussite wagons build, or even all of them in a scouts into Hussite wagons build.
I never understood why they changed rams to hold 6 without upgrades, now seeing this, I wonder if they will undo that patch change.
This is going to be the most annoying crap to deal with in ranked. I hate it.
never thought of garrisoning units in rams to hop out and in like that, new build to try, as always phosphoru delivers 11
This was meta in starcraft 2 at some point in history: using a slow but powerfull unit (tank) with the flying dropship to protect the tank between shots, i didn't know you could load and unload stuff so quick in age as well, that's good.
Ah, the good old "Fish of Fury" strategy. Those who know, know.
This is genuinely game changing. Like how does this not become part of the meta for ranged
coz cav will always be meta and render such a game style useless.
it can only mayyyybbee work if ur doing it against a stubborn archer player who refuses to change. but even then if ur just stalling with it and not getting anything done whilst throwing res out the window, might as well just resign.
"Nerf *my* Hussite Wagons, will you? Fine! I'll make my *own* Hussite Wagons! RAM-JANS!"
This guy is very creative. I love it.
This is something ive never thinked of, its insane how this game allows for these insane strats that not even the developers thinked of
He has invented a tank.
I invented this only as Crossbowmen + Siege Tower micro. Fun to see it actually working as intended, though in a different version.
I have seen so many of your videos and this has been the most bizarre/creative game for me ever lol
This gives Frenkie VS Dinchester vibes when Frenkie used the siege tower as an APC with Gbeto
I love this guy. I would have loved to see him in hidden cup V qualifiers like youpudding.
I think I can speak for all of us when I say we would love a video with the salty games in it
Armored personnel carriers!
Fascinating that strats like these were part of the meta in Starcraft for the past 20 years, but just now it seems to be a thing in AO2 :D
Alexios Komnenos is a great inclusion, absolute legend. John and Manuel Komnenos were also really cool - a brief era of greatness in the declining empire post Manzikert.
I had a buddy in college who totally invented this strat in our LAN games to counter my longbow swarms, but he didn't have the micro or eco to pull it off
Patch #675849 August 2024: Turks rams have a three second delay to garrison and ungarrison (you heard it here first)
THANK GOD! this is the first strategy I've seen that's absolutely obnoxious and needed a path asap.
love it, need more ram mischief
GG always fun when someone evolves the game. 😎
19:43 awesome game! I'd like to see Tsar Konstantin hero
Love the hidden cup content but this is a welcome change of content this week :)
you should do a low elo legends tournament. i prefer watching their unorthodox strategies to the pro build orders
Would be a great watch. Phosphoru might not be a pro, he does not qualify as low ELO though.
@@Olifantenstaart yea i mean pros can play in it too but you cant follow a normal build order you have to use some crazy out of the box strategy
@@bbsara0146 makes sense. I like it.
Hear me out. Cheaper castles with Franks or Incas. You can potentially hit exposed resources with axemen or even Kamayuk. Might as well mix in some siege towers if you want to prioritize damage to units instead of buildings. This and the other strat with siege towers have so much potential I'm getting excited.
"We have Protoss Reaver drops at home."
Reaver drops at home:
Archer armor could also be a useful investment before ramming the castle, I think. It would not take extra siege workshop time, but would steal some food from the janissary production.
I was so safe you followed “does Scotty know” with “well Scotty is about to find out” instead of “Scotty doesn’t know” lol
Is this strategy only working because the zero frame delay of the Janissaries' shots? Or it can be applied to other civilizations as well, with archers or hand cannoneers for example?
I assume that's the big part of it. Other units with zero or little delay could work though, Gbetos come to my mind instantly.
since castle focus rams and micro will be needed, it should be viable - janissaries are just early high damage ranged units
I think all teuton players used rams to move etk/tk into enemy lies/bases since they were way faster when full than knights... Before they got the movement speed buff
It was either rams or base creep to get them into play basicly xD
I thought zero frame delay was only for elite janissaries. Did they change it?
yeah zero delay is only for the elites, he just gives enough time to reload
@@vipingeorgeabraham3835 You're right, my mistake. But that means that ranged units like janissaries can reload in the ram and instantly shoot after going out of it, which makes this strat universal among range units, and with a very good micro, a strong strategy.
SCOTTY DOESNT KNOW, SCOTTY DOESNT KNOW
You missed your opportunity at 2:00 to go into a rendition of "Scotty Doesn't Know"! lol
What happens if you convert a ram with units inside it?
All of these years later, people finally understanding why you can garrison units inside of rams.
As someone who's always known you could do this kind of thing, this is actually hilarious.
Honestly, kinda wishing I'd spent more of my gaming career on competitive RTSes now instead of other genres. But then I remember that I can't be bothered to force myself to enjoy intensive microing and hotkey spamming to the extent necessary for high-level RTSes, and thus wouldn't have all of the world records and world firsts I have to my name...
This is basically Mechanisend Infantry, a tactic that is about 500 years from the future ^^
Well crap, that's such a cool idea. Gonna have to try this against my friend next time we play lmao
Thats a crazy strat!
Almost pulled it off too.
Love white phosphuru vidoes. 👍
How did you miss the perfect opportunity for a "Scotty doesn't know" reference!! 😅
i used to do this in arena jannisarys and rams always tripped people up mix a few spearmen to counter cavalry just in case
In hindsight it's hard to believe that no one had done this before.
I was amazed when I saw this done with gbettos and siege tower in another video.
T90 does Phosphorus have a youtube page? Does he stream his games?
🎶Scotty doesnt know! Scotty doesn't know! 🎶
Yes I’ve encountered white phosphorus bohemians strat but I learned from YOU how to counter it 🐴 🤙🏼
Lol, Phosphoru's just over here playing Dawn Of War with a heavy transport build
Seeing new strat after a few hundred hours of aoe2 just puts a big grin on my face
Good content!
Scotty doesn’t know! Scotty doesn’t know!! 🎶
Phosphoru out here with a Ghetto Hussite Wagon.
This is the level of sweaty I admire.
I love this guys strats
Phosphoru... what have you done...
Amazing! Attacking the TC and castle was the mistake though. Just take out all the houses and the market, eventually when all else is destroyed go for the tc imo
me: mom i want shuttle reaver micro
mom: we have shuttle reaver micro at home
the shuttle reaver micro at home:
hahaha
16:47 This is the way.
La Hire should be a permanent hero in Hidden cup! 😂😂😂 "LA Hire wants some blood! "
"His best build yet"
-shows it utterly failing completely-
These strategies are a joy to watch.
SCOTTY DOESN'T KNOW ♪♫
Phosphoru over here making Hussite Wagons as the Turks
Scotty! is Such a cool person to find this idea fun!!!!
at 2:00 you missed the chance to say "scotty doesn't know"
Still can’t believe Dave got into hidden cup
This could be easily countered by building some long swords, esp if you garrisoned them in your own ram so it outspeeds Red's ram and smashes it.
What is a ram filled with jenisaries? An improved bohemian Hussite wagon that cannot be converted, has higher dps and 1-2 extra range.
That was very clever
Phosphoru is such a genius. My only regret here is that microsoft is maybe going to target turks for another nerf again, my fav civ. I hate when they target niche, map specific, non-meta, hard to play civs for nerfs.
yeah it's like they're saying "know your place, you must be a closed map civ with one trick."
Did Phosphoru try and enter Hidden Cup 5 or Youpudding? or do they prefer to work their meta magic outside tournaments
I've wondered if manned rams weren't being slept on. Apparently so.
With 20/20 hindsight vision it looks like Phosphoru should have destroyed enemy market and keep Scotty away from his main gold, then continue harassing him (attack monastery?) until he has a slightly bigger deathball for the TC, then it looked like very possible GG! Without that market and wood to sell, Scotty was in big doo-doo!
Using that micro strat like that is impressive, too bad imho WP rushed under enemy TC so early. Feels like a bit of economic warfare first could have quickly put Scotty out of res, he could only take stuff under TC and castle safely!
Great game, I hope Phosphoru perfected this method since then and that we'll see more of it 😄
I feel a player like Viper would be super dangerous with a strat like this. Cause he absolutely would be attacking weakpoints and doing this micro while his eco continues toward elite janny and such. Heck, he'd probably have a vil in the ram for repairing it and quickwalling and stuff.
@@DavidSmith-mt7tb Exactly. It's a scandalous technique but it deserves a slightly better/deeper integration into the general play imho.