Taliesin didn't cover why Syvlanas goes all 'banshee' mode in this which kind of was skimmed over at 16:54. So I'll cover it. It's because it came to light that Vareesa gave Alleria a skewed description of what happened in War Crimes when they schemed to kill Garrosh Hellscream and then Vareesa was to go live with Sylvanas and be a family again. But Vareesa didn't, left it to Anduin, and of course Anduin wasn't gonna do it, so Garrosh lived on, escaped, WOD happened and Sylvanas was heartbroken. Anyway, Vareesa had apparently told Alleria a skewed version instead of what actually happened, which is what made Sylvanas go rage mode for a sec. This scene from the comic: Sylvanas: "First...there are times I wish I were still alive. Second... I am proud to be Warchief of the Horde. Alleria: "You have one more statement, Sylvanas." Sylvanas: "My last... I will never betray you, my sisters." Alleria: "The way you did not betray Vareesa when you manipulated her into trying to murder Garrosh Hellscream?" Sylvanas: "Is that what the little moon told you?" (turns to Vareesa) "Tell her whose idea it was in the first place, Vareesa! Who convinced whom? Who added the poison to Hellscream's food? And who abandoned me?" Sylvanas: "Countless lives could have been saved if Garrosh had been executed! We might not have had to fight the Legion again, had she only had the nerve to follow through!" (goes Banshee mode and starts ripping through scourge in anger) . THAT is why Sylvanas goes all Banshee Mode. Thought I'd explain that, it wasn't just for the sake of being evil, she was enraged by Vareesa not telling the whole story, and also having to relive her betrayal. Which is why Vareesa's apology at the end was meaningful.
carrastealth But the thing is Sylvanas planned to murder Vereesa and raise her as a forsaken. She never told Vereesa that the forsaken would never accept a living ruler but still agreed to the plan. She went full rage mode because the truth hurts her.
As Teemo6544 explains, I think Sylvanas was also a little peeved because Vareesa was supposed to come live Sylvanas after killing Garrosh and Sylvanas was going to kill her (she was unaware that was Sylvanas plan) and turn her to Forsaken, but never got the chance. As Sylvanas says in the comic "Im suprised to see YOU again." This is very interesting to see how this all plays out.
I don't think Sylvanas is capable of feeling remorse about that plan considering she was going to go through with it at all. I think she only went rage mode because Vareesa was making it sound like Sylvanas' idea to kill Garrosh and misrepresenting her to their sister - from SYLVANAS' perspective she has no reason to feel anything but anger at "Vareesa's" betrayal.
Actually I think her lie is that she's proud to be the Warchief of the Horde, as she was -very- reluctant to assume the mantle. She sees it as a power base, but I doubt she's proud of it.
Ruinesaga then she wouldn't of had a reason to hide the false statement from her sisters and the dark rangers waiting for her signal to kill her sisters on sight doesn't help that theory.
It's in theaters now! Coming this summer: Three Sisters. In Silvermoon. And then The Burning Legion hit. And they ran as fast as they could... from giant demon monsters. And then a giant tornado came... and that's when things got knocked into 12th gear. An undead armada shows up. With weapons made from to- ... tomatoes. And you better bet your bottom dollar... that these three sisters know how to handle business. In: Demon Invasion Tomato Monster Undead Armada Sisters, Who Are Just Regular Sisters, Running In Silvermoon from an Asteroid... and All Sorts of Things... THE MOVIE! Hold on, there's more! Orcs are coming, and they're also in the movie, and they're gonna come, and cross... attack... these three sisters. But let's get back to the sisters, because they're... they had a strong bond. You don't want to know about it here, but I'll tell you one thing: A Sword... it comes crashing into Azeroth. And what do you do then? It's three sisters and... and th-they're... It's called... Three Sisters... Three Sisters! It's just called Three Sisters.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand this reference. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of this reference will go over a typical reader's head. There's also Sylvanas's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into her characterisation- her personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of this reference, to realise that it's not just funny- it says something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike this reference truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Sylvanas's existential catchphrase "What joy is there in this curse?," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Christie Golden's genius wit unfolds itself on their computer monitor. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂 And yes, by the way, i DO have a Sylvanas tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
Could be, though I'm not sure what power she could consume from Sylvanas. Earlier in the comic the whispers seemed to suggest that killing Vareesa would unlock Vareesas potential or give her purpose, which is also odd
James N I just mean it might not mean take something physically. It could mean something more emotional like closure. It is vague and could be interpreted in a lot of ways. In a "power" sense I thibk it would mean Sylvanas would no longer be a threat and Alleria would. Or even the power that giving in to the void and the whispers would give her if she did kill Sylvanas. It just seemed like a general idea that the void wants it so she should want it. I don't know. Didn't seem like something worth analyzing so thoroughly.
Yea, also she might have huge resistance to void since she is undead, and she is also very powerful and have huge resources (horde), maybe that is why void is scared of her.
I read the Void whispers as being entirely situational, based on who is nearby. Alleria can handle thst because of her love for Turaylon and Arator. But look at how Alleria reacts to Sylvanas. In my opinion, the Void is simply playing on Alleria's fear of the undead sister, hatred of the Horde, and disbelief that her sister is both. And the Void won here. Alleria leaves, Sylvanas is left brooding, and we already know BfA.
The Void speaks half truths, and does play off how Alleria feels. I don't think she really loves Turalyon anymore not because she is more different now but because how invested in the void she is and how opposite Turalyon is to that. Taliesin may on to something with Arator but I don't think he will be killed off as a plot to make Alleria into crazy void bitch that will destroy everything> I think Arator will be the medium between Light and void and go through a journey with both ( like a disc Priest only he's a pally so I guess Disc pally).
BIG JOSH'S BIG HOUSE OF BIG BEEF The void speaks half truth , since they can play simulations of reality that's why they can show people visions of what could be and could not be , the light can do that too but the whispers are gentle and comes from the naaru itself. The void wants to get rid of sylv because she can't be manipulated because undead are already resistant to the void . We need to figure out what the sisters symbolize.
I dont think it's not just because Sylvanas/undead cant be manipulated/corrupted but also because they are death and real death is final, absolute, uncorruptable, and cannot be without meaning death has to exsist and a reality. Since I think this is the case it can explain both why the Void and Light has immense hatred for the undead and will immediately destroy anything undead or that deals with death. It also explain why Lich king was never corrupted in northrend by the old gods and why the Naaru of light reacted strongly against them dispite during wotlk it was played off as pallies and horde and alliance vs Arthas and DK kind of a thing.
blueriku which makes it reasonable , since ice crown is built from saronite and the scourge are resistant to it but years of exposure and you can hear the ghouls talking gibberish and void like , so the scourge or forsaken can still be corrupted but they have like 99% resistant to the void. There is a literal old god near them and they are not corrupted. Death : sylvanas and the scourge or forsaken , anything undead is just a pawn of the cosmic power to restore the balance of power since the major powers fell and the void reacted first so the light followed to counteract and restore the balance too , leaving death the final enemy so the void can have only 1 , the eradication of death is an ultimate win for the void. Death can't be manipulated by the void and is indirectly an ally of life and light , the final defense of the balance of power . Without death then life and the light is very vulnerable . Even now the naaru is nearly extinct and we know they will eventually turn and they are fading to the void making the light really weak right now. The void already has an almost infinite army around the distant planets , if they can manage to open a gate or rift for their army then the light would be eradicated , but first they need to get rid of death and make the light and its followers turn against it so they can act behind the curtain and set their plan.
Reminds me of BABYLON 5: the war between order and chaos. I guess we know by now that both sides do not care about good an evil. I have the impression that the Naaru would not mind an orderly yet evil society. Death is the obvious end of all possibility and that is what the void lords fear most. Which also reinforces Sageras decision to exterminate whole planets.
I know this is a small thing to complain about.. but why the fuck is Turalyon still in armor? I can understand it by Alleria, she is visiting her sister from the opposite faction, but they are in Stormwind, finally chilling after the war against the Legion, and It does not seem like they recently arrived direct after a battle or something. Like Jesus Turalyon, take off that lightforged combat armor, pull on some sweatpants and chill, you are on vacation.
I heard some content provider talk about a proposed transmog option where when you crossed over into a major city or sanctuary you would automatically change into a 'casual' set of clothes. (Might have been Kelani, might have been T&E. don't remember.) Sounds good to me.
I don't know about sylvanas' lie. Killing them might not have been a betrayal in her eyes considering what may be in the plans of the "true enemy". In that case couldn't the lie have been either of the 1st 2?
'Take from her what you need' ' You have sacrificed greatness for false feelings'.... Ok, 2 questions: What does an avatar of the void NEED from Sylvanas that will make them great? Sylvanas isn't the only forsaken so it must be something else, maybe the Val'kyr? Question 2: I agree with a point Bellular made; what if Sylvanas' death speech at the end is purely to save face with her rangers and allow Blizzard further manipulation of the WOW audience?
I'm more worried for Vereesa than Arator. Part of me feels like if she dies, the other two will go full crazy abomination on each other. But yeah, Arator is probably dead.
If you go by the cosmology, there are six factions: light (naaru), shadow (void/old gods), life (wild gods), order (titans), disorder (burning legion), death (undead). The light is too busy being arrogant and righteous. The burning legion was a threat and we smacked them down. The titans do their own thing and are dealing with Sargeras. The wild gods are too busy playing with trolls and elves. That leaves the undead.....which means Bolvar and Sylvannus may end up saving everyone.
I will say, I think the reasons Alleria is being so standoffish with Turalyon is because she's scared of falling for the whispers. If she does, he dies. So it's gonna be one of those" if you love him, leave him" type of things. And this is why I agree that we'll see Alleria grow more distant over BfA.
I think you're right, but that's also straining her relationship with Turalyon. Marriages don't always fail because they stop loving each other. Sometimes the first crack forms and widens because of love.
Sylvanas does not serve death, she serves undeath. The agony of birth and death and rebirth - this is the Wheel of Fate, the purifying cycle which sustains all life. Undead are an abomination, a plague which leeches this land of its spiritual strength. They obstruct the flow of life and death. Their souls stagnate in their wretched corpses. But the Wheel must turn. Death is inexorable and cannot be denied.
To be honest how i made sense of the Sylvanas part is a bit more complicated and less straightforward but would make that way towards morally grey a thing. How i saw it is that Sylvanas met up with the other sisters with a plan for both outcomes where they resent/discriminate her for being undead or they realize they all have been through a lot but they are still sisters after all. So she thought of the game where the other two would explain how they feel about the past and the present a bit. Then there would be 2 ways to go about what she says at the end. She either planned from the beginning to not say anything because she didnt want to pretend everything is fine between them since she was getting ready for war with the alliance or she didnt say anything only because Vareesa stopped them from fighting which makes Sylvanas think that she doesnt know if her third statement is true or not. But she did not expect Vareesa to apologize so sincerely to her and is why she clenches her fist to keep her emotions in check. When the rangers come out of hiding she still says she wants them dead but that just made me think she did not want to see her as a weak leader that would leave them for her sisters.
N Jeffrey Void Elves and Blood Elves can never work together now because Void Elves could be able to corrupt the Sunwell and the Blood Elves will never trust them again because of that. Similarly there is too much bad blood between Tyrande and Thalyssra at this point to work together in the same faction as well.
Naw that is the all party mate. The rest of them are just sub parties that fall underneath them. Much like the green party. All are subject to the dankness that is Elven culture.
If you've watched any of the Pyro's theories about the balance of life and death, the true enemy might not be the death itself but the cheating of it. And that's exactly what Sylvanas is doing. She's cheating death.
I think the author was using a literally device to let us know what the lie was. Sylvanas' 2 sisters both tell the lie in their second statement. Which means if this holds true for Sylvanas, her false statement would be the warchief one. Even if Sylvanas kills and raises her sisters I doubt she'd view it as a betrayal and more like a thing of mercy, reuniting her family.
You should name this series "Talkiesin and Evitell!" Love the channel, thank you for fantastic discussion and perspective on WoW content!! Absolutely addicted
One: I also think something detrimental will happen to Vereesa, based on her conversation with her sprogs---I mean, children. She says something a long the lines of "Some day you two will only have each other, hopefully a long, long time from now, so you two mustn't let petty stuff bother you." And what that tells me is that one way or another, those sprogs will be left without a mother. Perhaps Sylvanas will turn her. Whatever happens at Teldrassil, we shall see. Two: I'm convinced that each second statement is the lie, even in Sylvanas' case. We saw that with Alleria and Vereesa, obviously. But, if you noticed, Sylvanas very much does ***not*** betray her sisters, despite that seeming like the obvious lie. It would actually make sense that she is unhappy with her title of Warchief. She did not ask for it, and her true dedication is to the Forsaken. While she may respect the other races of the Horde, they are not her responsibility. She is the dead leading the living, which isn't right. And, if we spin it right, her raising them isn't a betrayal, at least maybe in Sylvanas' eyes. It's a true act of love for her. She still wants to be with them, she misses them deeply. It's either she's alive, or they're undead with her. Perhaps to her, it wasn't going to be a betrayal.
Just an excellent video. I don't always get on board with your conspiracies, but I could listen to you theorycraft for hours. You have a lot more insight than most WoW RUclipsrs, and have more input than simply repeating what's already been said.
Fun fact: at 11:42, we can see that the Windrunner sisters are dancing. This is a nod to the painting 'The Three Graces' by Rubens. I love how the artists put this bit of Classical Culture into this!
rather than Aleria not being as into her relationship with Turalyon I more got the vibe she is worried their recent divergence will be too much to overcome, not her just being tired of it
Perhaps death, in this instance, could represent nothingness. Both the Light and the Void want to rule the universe, in essence. However, with death, there is nothing. Like you said, with everything being dead there would be nothing for the void to feed upon, and nothing for the light to control. That is what would make Sylvanas the "true" enemy.
Pretty much thinking the same thing. The Void and the Light are very much active forces, and forces of change. They feed or influence the living as a result. Sylvanas is ... static, unchanging, and due to her fear of the afterlife would prefer it stay that way. Death (even undeath) is stagnation ... nothingness to some degree.
But it is not nothingness. True death is nothingness. What Sylvanas wants is slavery. Kill them, bring them back, keep them under my heel. And think about this, she can't just kill everyone. The Forsaken are constantly losing limbs and having to replace them. For that to continue you need living people that can be harvested. It's the vampire conundrum. So she wants to kill most of the world and res it under her control, then use the rest of the living as cattle basically.
Nah, Sylvanas is not the ultimate overlord of death, she does not own it. It's actually stupid that Blizzard is pushing the Void and Undeath apart each other since originally it was the Void where the shadow and undeath comes from, but more retcons I guess?
Remember, this is a speculation video. Blizzard has never said that Sylvanas in the lord of Death, neither did they say that Undeath is an enemy to the Void. The Void could be afraid of Sylvanas for totally different things and Blizzard could take this into a whole different direction. Until we know for sure, I think it's inadaquate to complain and we can just speculate about the things we consider likely to happen.
After i read the comics i've changed my speculation of the whispers throughout Legion: "In the hour of her third death she will usher in our coming" - After Alleria said she died twice i immediately suspected it is about her, but now with "Arator is my anchor..." thing, i really think blizz had referenced her with this whisper. "Her heart is a crater and we had filled it" - After the comics i think it might be about Vereesa, since she is emotionally unstable and torn by her sister's conflict. The crater would be a double reference for her loss of Rhonin in Theramore, but also a metaphor for Dalaran, which also left a crater in the past, and was ruled by Rhonin. She might set the blaze for a plot twist through Old God's influence. Ogmot's vision about the "Lady wrapped in dark swirlies..." - definitely matches Sylvanas and her recent motivation to rule the undead, the question left unanswered is why Ogmot received this vision from the Void, i assume it's related to the Void's warning Alleria about Sylvanas, which many speculated that they fear her. It will be reasonable for blizzard to hint about the Three Sisters plotline through whispers and visions, and i think all three going to play a major role in BfA or the next expansion.
It makes sense that the Void would consider Death of all things to be the "true enemy". Because despite what we were once made to believe of it, the Void doesn't want to truly end all things, it wants to reshape it in their image, which is why Chronicles Vol. 1 says "... dark spirits within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment." But Death does mean it, to truly be the end of all possibilities. And what other aspect of Warcraft's universe is more mysterious and misunderstood than that of Death itself?
Alarice wanting to feed off of the torment off of entire planets of beings is easily categorized as evil, so there's nothing to misunderstand about the void gods being evil.
My point wasn't whether the Void/Void Lords should be categorized as "evil" or not. It was purely giving reason as to **why** Void (and by extension, the Void Lords) would fear Death so much to consider it the "true" enemy. To reiterate, that's because the goals of Void and Death are very different from each other. One seeks to reshape the Universe in their image (Void), the other wishes to end its existence entirely (Death). So if your confusion lies in the fact that the Void may call the other "evil", that's likely a lie from the Void in hopes to manipulate Alleria to do what it wants. But the real reason Void's afraid of Death is because it'll mean that the Void will not be able to achieve its goal at all, ever, if Death achieves theirs first. Hence why the Void says Death will be "the end of all possibilities".
Alarice void lords are the lesser entities, void gods are the alleged rulers specifically, but to be fair they didn't really make that a good enough of a distinction since lords and gods sound so closely interchangeable. anyways i must have misunderstood and thought you were somehow trying to imply the void was morally justified or something. regardless, it's well known by know that the void basically just see's all living things as a food source to feed off of their torment/etc, obviously they don't want their food source extinguished. I'm not saying the void can call death evil, however, it should be noted that to mortals, death is evil, because it's the end of their mortal existence and a scary thing that no one wants (however, in wow lore mortals apparently all go into some sort of afterlife, I'm still struggling to just start with the lore basics, all i know is I've seen lots of ghosts/souls/etc of passed away npc's so technically in WoW it is established that death isn't really nothingness, just a loss of the physical body in the physical world, while a soul lives on. as for death as some kind of force against the void, i don't really get it, that's not really a contest, death is a event, a happening, it's not a entity or sentient force. (unless by "death" you are metaphorically just referring indirectly to sargeras/burning legion/(or anyone else) killing all mortals so that the void has no physical living beings left to feed on.
"Welcome to another episode of Taliesin Talks. The show where we go over all the things that don't fit into the weekly reset because of time. So, I, Taliesin will have a face to face talk with you guys going in to depth about different things that exist in the WoW universe too good for a short update." You're welcome to have this into.
It's not only death, it's Life as well. The only other major force in the Comsic Forces that have some what power are the Druids and Nature. They're hurting from the events of Legion but So is Death after the events of Wrath. The only reason the void is gearing up to make a move, and the light acting like space nazis is because the two stronger forces (Arcane and Fel) are all but deafeted with the Titans locked away and the Legion shattered. There's a power vacuum, and Death sees an opportunity through Sylvanas. I don't think this is a conflict of just Light and Shadow any more, this is a fight for the soul of Azeroth. The Comsic Forces all want to mold her in their image. (And I'm calling it now she's going to have aspects of all forces and become a being/planet of True Balance). That's why Sylvanas feels justified in her actions. Concepts like good and evil have no place amoung these cosmic forces, only the conflict stands.
Ninno of the last Unicorn Omg yes , I agree . The balance of power is shattered , the emerald dream is in near ruins and half of the treats and ancients died and their connection to the emerald dream is weakening because teldrassil fell and they can't go to the dream. The arcane Titans, the ones the void feared most is gone leaving 1 left, Azeroth , shifting the tides of war since it is the Titans that were holding them back, the legion with its immortal burning crusade is shattered and its army is separated throughout the fel realms . We can see planets being consumed by the void at a faster rate and the light doing the same with draenor.
Ninno of the last Unicorn I main druid and I WANT THIS. Life vs Death vs Void vs Light would be really interesting. And how would the Nightmare fit in??? AND we have new "druids" (im guessing Kul Tirans differ somehow from the other 4 druid races) so it's a great opportunity for FRESH LORE!!??!?!?
Let's use 18:50 as an example ... how do they look any different than older pictures? I agree that they look less absurd than some depictions with unnatural wasp-like tails (which make them look as if they were born wearing a corset), but the comic doesn't really deviate from the majority of the "elvish" look from Warcraft 3 to now.
Elves has to look like they were born with corsets. Thats how they are in game or any other depiction until now. The artist wanted to give them "realistic" body types but they are ELVES,give them the body type of an ELF
What I love about your “ Lore Archeology” the discussions you have after and the damn laughs I always have The whispers of the void normally talk with lies but the void was talking from Fear
They've shown Yogg be unable to corrupt Arthas, potentially meaning undead in general cannot be corrupted. Sylvanas raising, well ideally everyone in her mind, back as undead would make far too many people immune to the void's influence. An obvious concern in their general plans. Also assuming undead *are* in fact immune, the biggest threat to the void would be some kind of holy-undead hybrid being. Not that *that* would ever happen >.> With the void being able to see many possible futures, I could certainly see why anyone raising void-immune beings would be viewed as a major threat.
What really bothered me was at the end neither Vereesa or Alleria considered that Sylvanas's lie was, "I'd never betray you my sisters." Didn't they at all find it suspicious that she withheld revealing hers? Telling them that she wasn't proud of being Warchief or that she doesn't mind being undead isn't that big of a deal, so clearly she doesn't want them to know she'll betray them. I hope the 2 sisters realize this later on... Kind of ridiculous if they don't.
According to Knaifu, Light is not the enemy to the Void, "I know the naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters... in time." Hence the Light can't be true enemy to the Void but the 3rd opttion, which is tied to Sylvanas - is.
Go check the WoW Cosmos division. Undead/Death - Void Lords/Shadow - Titans/Order - Wild Gods/Nature - N'aaru/Light - Burning Legion/Disorder. Which means that Void doesn't fear the Titans, Wild Gods, N'aaru, Sargeras. It does however fear Death.
Argus is the titan of death. That's why Sargeras wanted Argus on his side. Light, void and the Titans are only scared of one thing - they're scared of dying. Looking at Sylvanas actions, she serves death and the Loa knew it. That's why Voljin wanted her to be next Warchief, the Loa told him.
This is an interesting thought, and if Bwonsamdi really hates the undead, there may be another Loa out there who is coming into power or trying to set a certain set of events in play for some obscure reason.
If anything this would be a good thing for WCIV or WoW 2. Light, Shadow, Death, also it's a new type of Rock Paper Scissors. Void beats light, Light beats death, Death beats void.
That's exactly what this all RPS thing is all about. If Void beats Lights, there is no balance, so what is keeping the balance then ? Death. In this perfect triangle of Forces, Death is keeping the balance between the light and the dark, by being neither one of those nor bound to any of those. And it all makes pretty much sense, where does the Death Magic comes from ? It's a Legion creation, the Scourge and all that, and what was Sargeras chasing after in the beginning of all things ? He was chasing after the void, so him pushing for the creation of a third force able to beat the void is quite logic I think. It does all makes sense, even though I'm sadly pretty sure this will always be nothing but theories, I surely would love to join the forces of Death and bend my knee in front of the Banshee Queen in a restless war against the void and the light, until my last undead breath comes out in an epic WoW 2.
Im a Horde player but i always dreamt that i could play with a "Neutral" faction... I dont like being forced to pick sides, the world is not black and white, we are all shades of grey (dont be confused with the other 50 shades) and i wish i could be from neither sides. And MAYBE, the true enemy for the void is the undead, because they cant be affected by this "mind control" (im just rambling shit, because i dont know if they have that "immunity").
Yeah... but Horde and Alliance aren't black and white, either. Alliance love to scream that Horde is evil over and over, but it's not. Both factions are gray, and they always have been.
Know those feels the faction extremists kinda turned me off to the concept,I play primarily horde but have a few alli toons and while I will play BFA,I feel as though at this point,the faction war is forced and artificial when the better approach would be to drop the faction BS and make new enemies waging war on them [I say this for those who like to grip but it's WAR craft. You can engage in war without having to keep relying on the red vs blue/autobot vs decepticon bullshit]
The "Death" faction sounds cool, but... what about the forsaken characters? I really want it (as long as you can join them, because all hail the lich king), but I'm on edge about the forsaken players. And the Death Knights as well.
What happened to orc players in horde civil war? why there is there the concept of desolate council? forsaken players will be the part of insurrection at that point.
Imagine if they did a second Lich King expansion, and for the start of it all Death Knight and Forsaken characters are enemies to every other player and have their own questing. Then there's a quest to unlock the first raid-tier which brings them all back.
There's a "death" faction : the Scourge... We killed them 5 expansions ago... I feel Sylvanas is just weird Arthas / Garrosh blend that feels inferior to both in their respective motivations.
No, we just decapitated that faction, we didn't kill it. "Without it's master's command, the restless scourge will become an even greater threat to this world." -Terenas Menethil 2010
I think the third faction will be Void focused, led by Alleria. Why would the big bad Blizzard has been hyping up become a new "good guy" team? Well, the Horde used to the be bad guys in Warcraft 1 and 2, and then the Scourge became "playable good guys" through the Forsaken. And this comic is very clearly setting up a three way conflict between the Windrunner Sisters. Let me explain. During this comic there are a lot of hints that despite all three sisters missing each other and wishing they could go back to the good ole days of Quel'thalas, each one is shown to have new loyalties and priorities. Sylvanas has become the Warchief and thanks to her Val'kyr is quasi-immortal, which means that unlike Vol'jin she will never lose control of it. The Horde, so long as it serves her, is Sylvanas' power and refuge which she has no reason to give up. Vereesa speaks about her belief that the Blood Elves can be redeemed, signalling that she see's a united High Elf faction rejoining the Alliance rather than serving the Horde. She and the Silver Covenant High Elves are staunch supporters of the Alliance, and they will not leave. Alleria, on the other hand, is newly returned to Azeroth, which has changed greatly since she left. She says at one point "This... was home. I left... to protect... this?" She fought for a thousand years to save her world from the Burning Legion, only to come back and find it destroyed by a new enemy. In her time away from Azeroth she learned not to trust the Light, and upon her return finds that Death has claimed her home. To make matters worse, she is fighting a battle, by herself, against the Void, a tireless enemy, and I believe the comic makes it clear that one day she will lose. I think that the Void will eventually overtake Alleria's mind, and she will start a new faction of those loyal to the Void. It will be made up of people who see the Light as tyrannical and Death as the ultimate defeat. Even a universe consumed by the Void, as chaotic and maddening as it would be, would be preferable to what the other powers aspire to. But why would she need to start a new faction? Well the Alliance will eventually be unable to accept her, as they are followers of the Light and wary of her Void powers. The leader of the Alliance is, in fact, a priest of the Light, and thus a staunch supporter of that power. The Horde, meanwhile, is led by what can be considered the embodiment of Death, a being who has in the past been shown to be interested in spreading the curse of undeath to gain new allies. Every member of the Horde who falls in battle and every mortal they slay can become a new Forsaken, a new follower of Death. Neither faction can be a haven for someone who fully embraces the Void. So the Alliance becomes the faction of Light, the Horde becomes the faction of Death, and Alleria starts the faction of Void, beginning a new three way war over the the fate of the universe. Alleria will lead the Void faction as the Sister of Shadow, Sylvanas will lead the Horde as the Sister of Death, and poor Vereesa will oppose them both as the Sister of Sorrow.
No. WoW is a strong two faction game because everyone knows of horde and alliance. Even people who never played WoW. And everyone knows of course that the Alliance is full of miserable people you should ignore. Giving that up would be stupid. The horde is also not the "bad" faction. The forsaken are a bit, of course, even mostly in a mad and loveably quirky way.
You have the best speculations and you're very entertaining! That's why I'm happy to be a patreon! I hope there will be a third faction, Glory for Sylvanas!
Good Stuff, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to your interpretation of the comic and the events. It was like discussing it with a knowledgeable friend, but I had no input.
To me, this seems like a lot of misdirection revolving around Sylvanas' character. I feel like Blizzard is pushing hard in one direction, with the intention to eventually turn it around on the player. There's more subtlety in this comic than one might want to believe. I think Sylvanas was being honest when she states she "would never betray my sisters" That said, I also haven't read the "Before the Storm" preview, or anything coming from the book so, maybe I'm wrong.
In that case, one of the other statements would've been a lie, and TBH I can't see Sylvanas lying about the other two statements. She really, REALLY prefers undeath to death, but I seriously can't believe that Sylvanas has never missed being alive again. And while she's not really hugely into the Horde, Sylvanas is always happy to be in a position of power. I'd say that Sylvanas would indeed betray her sisters. She's not completely devoid of emotional attachment, but she is more than willing to betray even the people she loves in order to get what needs to be done, done. That pragmatism is the center of her character.
i suspect that most of it is "traced" art, which has gotten really popular lately (marvel has artists that are pretty bad about it). that's why the bodies look okay, but the faces can seem really, really off. because they're tracing a face, but then they're having to go "off trace" to finish the expression or get what the character is supposed to look like.
Honestly, I think that Arator won't be the key point of Alleria succumbing, but the key point of Sylvanas and Alleria's relationship. My bets are Sylvanas will save Arator,, and maybe Giramar and Galadin too, at some point.
The art was really rough in this comic compared to the others, but I really enjoyed the lore. Curious why and how Turalyon has a fixed sword or if that was just oversight. And How he and Alleria can touch, maybe because Turalyon is wearing gloves? Just not sure. It's clear their relationship is on the rocks though. I feel so bad for Vereesa though, she's gone through so much due to both of her sisters as well as losing her husband who she loved so much. They also make her out to be so much weaker than the other two. I'd love to see her become this ultra powerful character, but I think she will always be this motherly voice of reason instead. Maybe she can be the one to keep Slyvanas and Alleria from ever going truly evil. Really excited to see where this lore leads to.
I actually interpreted the voids hatred of sylvanas (undead) to stem from the fact that undeath breaks the cycle of life and death. if you look at the void as chaos/entropy, then couldnt death be a return to chaos or a return to the void? and since sylvanas and the forsaken are undead it keeps the void from having control over everything. Especially if she keeps increasing the number of undead/forsaken. This would explain why the void calls her a "violation". Even when concerning the naaru (Actual beings of liight) Xalatath said that they are merely lost brethren and will return to the true path soon. I guess the void hates defying chaos/entropy more than light because the light will eventually become shadow? Maybe? Just random rambles
There are no portals in the Greyfang Enclave! 7:34 Well, I guess we know now that they won't be there for BFA. On a more serious note, the way Alleria's whispers..... There are mental illnesses that manifest that way, were the person just has to put on a happy face and pretend their brain isn't doing horrible shit behind the scenes. Heavy stuff.
Teigan I was just gonna say, sounds similar to what people with some strains of OCD (the constant intrusive thoughts,) and some with schizophrenia have to put up with.
11:30 - Probably going to end up as a Caverns of Time "What if?" dungeon, like End of Time and the "What if?" Deathwing won. 15:30 - Yep, but its cultural not racial. 18:45 - Elves. 19:50 - Shes not keeping it under control. Each instance of whispers in this comic comes with a sudden shift in mood or a reaction to them. They are effecting her. In the begging after the whispers tell her to kill her husband she suddenly backs away, sure something that could have happened anyway, but this is the moment and the thoughts we were given to look at. When arguing with Sylvanas she is overcome with her rage as the shadows scream in her head. While she didn't react when talking with Vereesa, the other two seem to show that the void is capable of at least nudging her. 26:30 - In death there is stagnation, should everyone and everything become undead essentially undoes fate. The light seeks the one true path, the shadow follows every path, the dead are still, they walk no roads. Dead men tell no tales.
What truly stands out to me from this comic in fitting with the overarching lore of where this expansion seems to be going is the final scene from the "Son of the Wolf" comic earlier in legion. It shows Velen and Anduin, two very divine beings in the light, sitting on the Exodar. I think its important because they aren't in Stormwind, and they appear to be the only two leaders present. This might further lend itself to a void/light/undead story, especially when Anduin says everything will be over after the impending battle. Maybe some final showdown between the light and void and undead that determines the fate of Azeroth, and thereafter, the WoW universe beyond Azeroth. Not sure if anyone else noticed how this comic could very easily tie-in to that one. Just my thinking! :) love your content T&E, so much so that I joined patreon just to support you two! keep it up :D
I loved your analysis. What if... ...Blizzard is setting up a third faction based on Life and Death on one axis and Light and Shadow on another axis. ...Sylvanas's true path in the lore is to become Death. She did follow Helga's suggestion and isn't she the Nordic Goddess of Death? ...Arthas Menethal true purpose in the lore was to put Sylvanas on her path to Lady Death. maybe, that is why Arthas couldn't really kill her. Perhaps, that is why she was the only person in the lore whose body was put in a box and separated from her spirt. I agree with you on the key parts of the PDF Book. However, I think Sylvanas and Alleria interaction was more revealing on a psychological level. I feel and think that Sylvanas promise to never betray my sisters is more telling in a psychological way. In her pathology, she believes her sisters abandoned [betrayed] her and left her to deal with Arthas on her own. Which is why when Vereesa finally acknowledges that behavior [when she agreed to stay with Sylvanas and then ran away and abandoned her] was important in the lore. Vereesa did abandon [betrayed] Sylvanas which in the lore is the last time Sylvanas allowed herself to love and have hope. That was the point in the lore where Sylvanas accepted that her path was to be alone. The Undead has no hope. They can only survive. What drives Sylvanas is an obsession which is fueled by anxiety and that leads to her compulsive behaviors. And that pathology is from abandonment. Where she is today is because she had to claw her way there without any help. I agree that the void having high anxiety and genuine fear of Sylvanas is the most telling from this book. ...Alleria's son Arator dies in a battle and Alleria loses control and in her rage accidentally burns down Teddressil (not sure the spelling) the Night Elf Tree. What if Sylvanas takes the blame for her sister who actually burns the tree down? And that starts the war. I think the lie is the Proud to be Warchief of the Horde. Sylvanas never wanted to be Warchief. She was content with being in the shadow of being the leader of the Forsaken. Sylvanas kills Cecil Menathil (not sure if that is the right name), Arthas sister because she tried to usurp her power as Queen of the Forsaken. In War Crimes, Sylvanas said that she had accepted her death a long time ago. Thank you.
I do think you're wrong on the idea of a third faction. There is no way gameplay wise a third faction can work, most people just wouldn't join it. This game has been built for two factions since early in the original alpha, it's just part of the DNA of the whole thing. Can't see it happening. If Sylvanas were to found her own faction it would be something like the Iron Horde i.e. another external threat for us to kill. As for whom the true enemy is, I think Death is a good answer but let me suggest another one. Free Will, the ability of mortals to choose for ourselves. Sylvanas and her Forsaken took back their free will after all from the Lich King. It defines them. The Light lays out a single path you must follow, you have no choice. The Shadow lays out multiple paths but only wants you to follow the ones that serve it's ends, the chaos it promotes just part of the long term plan to see everything fall under their rule. But free will, the ability of mortals to deny both the light and the shadow and to follow their own path, THAT might be the true enemy. Which means WoW is in the middle of ripping off Babylon 5 and JM Straczynski should sue.
I genuinely really enjoy this take on the concept of the comic because I truly believe that Sylvanas has ulterior motives that are sort of hidden at the moment. I believe she's making choices thinking miles ahead of the opposition, and I don't think she's evil. I think when the time comes, she's gonna step up and be the hero of the story, rather than the villain. The free will thing sort of helps strengthen this theory. Just because everybody believes the light to be a force of good doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Take the "purifying of Illidan" on the vindicaar. The Naaru seemed almost evil in its adamant attempt to cleanse Illidan's soul. The void is very much of the same, attempting to set things in motion that really only benefit their goals and not necessarily the goals of the planet or the citizens within it. I believe Sylvanas is one of the few people right now not "brainwashed" for lack of a better term by the light or the void.
Okay, so I am a shallow aesthete who is focused on image instead of content. The Windrunner sisters are beautiful. They are always described that way. They are always depicted that way. While I recognize that different cultures have different standards of beauty I'm pretty sure that if Picasso saw this comic he would say "Damn! What's up with those faces." Honestly, they look like chubby frat boys who've dressed as transvestites for Halloween. My first run through I had to read the text without looking at the panels. And as always, fantastic vid.
Did you pick Picasso because of how 'awful' his faces were to underline your point? Or did you pick him thinking he was talented in illustrating "classic beauty"? I'm going to read it as the former. I understand what you're saying either way, I think, but I like this artist with all their faults(?) much better than Picasso.
It makes sense. Think about the various angles each of the major forces have taken in trying to secure their agenda w/ Azeroth/the world soul. The Legion was soundly defeated multiple times, crippling them and setting them back. Look no further than Kil'jaeden's frustration in the 7.2 cinematic towards Sargeras. Kil'jaeden tried to stop brute forcing their way in through a mix of subterfuge and manipulation by creating the Lich King. Unfortunately for them, it was a foolish decision to choose such an inherently untrustworthy candidate to spearhead the campaign. However, the initial overwhelming success of the plague cannot be denied. It allowed Archimonde to step into our world for the first time relatively unimpeded. After all, what did the Legion really lose that time around in pursuit of summoning one of their greatest? Nothing, really. The Scourge were just pawns. However, that's what led to another traumatic loss for the Dark Titan. Archimonde pretty much straight up saying the Scourge was useless now that he had arrived was the last straw. They betrayed the Legion in the end and became allies to noone. This unpredictable, volatile nature lead to the downfall of the Lich King. It makes even more sense why Yogg-saron was sticking his tentacles in the Scourge's cookie jar back in Wrath: they were relying on us to contain the Scourge. They relied on us to repel and even destroy the Burning Legion. This may seem like a huge benefit to the Void, however, it also frees up Sylvanas from having to coordinate the Horde across the cosmos. The Light, while the opposite and an eternal enemy of the Void, does not and will never oppose the Void's end-game. The Light seeks to preserve and defend life, not destroy or convert it into something else. They may be a perpetual annoyance of the highest caliber, but, nothing that would ever cripple the Void's ultimate goal. Unlike the Legion and the Void, Sylvanas has been accepted on Azeroth. She became a casualty of the plague, a native from the beginning. She assisted in fighting all of these threats, even if her means were unacceptable to some, and has been appointed Warchief. Her influence -combined with Northrend already being an entire continent of permanently scarred undeath - threatens to swallow the entire world. The Void's fear likely stems from ignorance. Could Azeroth rot from the outside in, doing irreversible damage to the World Soul? Could the loss of life to undeath kill or otherwise decay the sleeping titan beyond repair? If so, then the Void's ultimate plan would be laid to waste and their only shot would be to brute force their way in. However, as we saw with the War of the Ancients and the fall of the Black Empire, such an approach will inevitably fail. Most of the Forsaken-related questlines for the Horde in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms revolve around blighting the land further rather than doing anything to redeem life lost from the Scourge invasions. Sylvanas may not have the might of the Legion, but, she doesn't have to strongarm the world. She's already an integral part of it. Perhaps the Void sees this and recognizes how it all started: the Legion, via Ner'zhul, used Arthas to create a snowball effect which gave rise to the Banshee Queen as an avenger, rallying those who had lost everything. Now, the Void seek their own fallen champion in a Windrunner sister: Alleria. However, it may be too late. The Void Lords' patience could be their downfall, as Alleria wasn't too far gone to the point that she would outright murder her sister. Slowly - just as Sylvanas herself began to accept and even embrace undeath - Azeroth is too. The Void Lords see this and tried to create their own Arthas in Alleria, but, even if they succeed, the hour of twilight may not come to pass if too much damage is done by Sylvanas and the blight/plague. That's probably why the whispers turned into a bloodthirsty frenzy, pushing Alleria as hard as they could, recognizing that this was their best and perhaps last chance. *Battle for Azeroth* may have multiple meanings, indeed.
Hey Taliesin doesn't it bother you a bit that the light is like weak force always? Neither the Legion or the Void see it as a real threat and the powerful light characters are far less powerful as you can see with Turalyon, Velen, and the Naruu ( which should be Old God Equivalents???).. I did like Anduin showed a little more in the cinematic, but as a Pally main I do feel we're on the losers side constantly..
Eh. Poor pally. At least you're not a priest who's essentially just a "untrained pally" and who needed pallies during their own class campaigns. Get out of here. XD
You could call the series "Taliesin Talks" :) I was fascinated by the voices in Alleria's head and particularly how great a threat the Void finds Sylvanas... kind of suggests that the Legion and it's power (where Sylvanas' powers were born with Arthas) really are a significant threat to the Void.
Great video, Taliesin! Here's my two cents: I feel like the 'true enemy' of the Void wouldn't necessarily be death, but rather Undeath. Sylvanas has had this story arch involving her pursuit of immortality and her avoidance of the nothingness (*wink void wink*) that death poses. So, Undeath is basically an affront to the Void because it postpones the ever--present entropy that is the Void. It's not exactly immortality itself (à la dragon aspects, elves, etc.), but it's the idea that one can purposeful circumvent the entropic forces of the universe (i.e. play god) that the Void is so perturbed by.
The art in this one is so much better than the first. I hated that design. But honestly I'm super disappointed we aren't getting animated comics like Warlords. They were like the best thing from WoD, haha.
First time poster, so hope you guys see it. Wife is a long time fan and got me hooked as well. Anyways, idea for your new series. T.E.A. Time! Would stand for Taliesin and Evitel Analysts. I welcome feedback though!
And after this commic happened a low level blood elf comes to the spire and takes the locket back to silvanas.
Blood Elves and Draenai starting zones could really do with an update, now couldn't they?
Though this questline in specific was really cool.
I don't want to lose this quest :( ruclips.net/video/oPmfgaFweA8/видео.html
Taliesin didn't cover why Syvlanas goes all 'banshee' mode in this which kind of was skimmed over at 16:54. So I'll cover it.
It's because it came to light that Vareesa gave Alleria a skewed description of what happened in War Crimes when they schemed to kill Garrosh Hellscream and then Vareesa was to go live with Sylvanas and be a family again. But Vareesa didn't, left it to Anduin, and of course Anduin wasn't gonna do it, so Garrosh lived on, escaped, WOD happened and Sylvanas was heartbroken.
Anyway, Vareesa had apparently told Alleria a skewed version instead of what actually happened, which is what made Sylvanas go rage mode for a sec.
This scene from the comic:
Sylvanas: "First...there are times I wish I were still alive. Second... I am proud to be Warchief of the Horde.
Alleria: "You have one more statement, Sylvanas."
Sylvanas: "My last... I will never betray you, my sisters."
Alleria: "The way you did not betray Vareesa when you manipulated her into trying to murder Garrosh Hellscream?"
Sylvanas: "Is that what the little moon told you?" (turns to Vareesa) "Tell her whose idea it was in the first place, Vareesa! Who convinced whom? Who added the poison to Hellscream's food? And who abandoned me?"
Sylvanas: "Countless lives could have been saved if Garrosh had been executed! We might not have had to fight the Legion again, had she only had the nerve to follow through!" (goes Banshee mode and starts ripping through scourge in anger) .
THAT is why Sylvanas goes all Banshee Mode. Thought I'd explain that, it wasn't just for the sake of being evil, she was enraged by Vareesa not telling the whole story, and also having to relive her betrayal. Which is why Vareesa's apology at the end was meaningful.
carrastealth
But the thing is
Sylvanas planned to murder Vereesa and raise her as a forsaken. She never told Vereesa that the forsaken would never accept a living ruler but still agreed to the plan.
She went full rage mode because the truth hurts her.
As Teemo6544 explains, I think Sylvanas was also a little peeved because Vareesa was supposed to come live Sylvanas after killing Garrosh and Sylvanas was going to kill her (she was unaware that was Sylvanas plan) and turn her to Forsaken, but never got the chance. As Sylvanas says in the comic "Im suprised to see YOU again." This is very interesting to see how this all plays out.
I don't think Sylvanas is capable of feeling remorse about that plan considering she was going to go through with it at all. I think she only went rage mode because Vareesa was making it sound like Sylvanas' idea to kill Garrosh and misrepresenting her to their sister - from SYLVANAS' perspective she has no reason to feel anything but anger at "Vareesa's" betrayal.
YO. THE FIRST ONE IS A LIE. IT'S CONFIRMED.
You are a true hero bro
''I will never betray you my sisters'' that is where almost everyone with common sense aims their bow straight as Sylvanas' face
Josh Lyman pffft common sense is overrated in azeroth
Actually I think her lie is that she's proud to be the Warchief of the Horde, as she was -very- reluctant to assume the mantle. She sees it as a power base, but I doubt she's proud of it.
And her idea for them to join her in undeath would give them immortality, and in her eyes, it's not a betrayal, but a twisted love.
Ruinesaga then she wouldn't of had a reason to hide the false statement from her sisters and the dark rangers waiting for her signal to kill her sisters on sight doesn't help that theory.
The only thing that kept her from ambushing them were the last words from veeresa
6:45 - 7:15
Technically she is only touching the gauntlet. Might be it only happens when they try to actually touch each other.
It's in theaters now! Coming this summer: Three Sisters. In Silvermoon. And then The Burning Legion hit. And they ran as fast as they could... from giant demon monsters. And then a giant tornado came... and that's when things got knocked into 12th gear. An undead armada shows up. With weapons made from to- ... tomatoes. And you better bet your bottom dollar... that these three sisters know how to handle business. In: Demon Invasion Tomato Monster Undead Armada Sisters, Who Are Just Regular Sisters, Running In Silvermoon from an Asteroid... and All Sorts of Things... THE MOVIE! Hold on, there's more! Orcs are coming, and they're also in the movie, and they're gonna come, and cross... attack... these three sisters. But let's get back to the sisters, because they're... they had a strong bond. You don't want to know about it here, but I'll tell you one thing: A Sword... it comes crashing into Azeroth. And what do you do then? It's three sisters and... and th-they're... It's called... Three Sisters... Three Sisters! It's just called Three Sisters.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand this reference. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of this reference will go over a typical reader's head. There's also Sylvanas's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into her characterisation- her personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of this reference, to realise that it's not just funny- it says something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike this reference truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Sylvanas's existential catchphrase "What joy is there in this curse?," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Christie Golden's genius wit unfolds itself on their computer monitor. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Sylvanas tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
I understood this reference. LMAO!
I'd totally watch that provided they use a better outline and script than they did with the Warcraft movie.
This was great. Laughing so hard over here. I can hear the giggling and laughing in between/during sentences.
Awesome tribute!!! :D
I have void whispers too, they tell me to clean my room and stuffs, really evil
Void = Jordan Peterson CONFIRMED
lmao!
Clean your room man! Sort yourself out bucko.
Afflicted and again the void tries to tempt me
mine did that too, now it is trapped under my pile of dirty clothes so I guess I don't need to listen any more
TRUE ENEMY = PANDAS
3RD FACTION = PANDAS
VOID WHISPERS = PANDAS
I second that completely!
in particular Nomi cuz he blew up Teldrassil
This is the truth if only Alleria knew already
Chen Stormstout's been whispering into Alleria's ear using his void brew, that sick bastard.
Not seeing any comments on this here, what is it that Aleria needs to take from Sylvanas? "Take what you need from her" the whispers say. No idea
James N good question. It sounds more significant and specific than meaning "loot the corpse too, you noob."
I think it might mean something less physical, consume her power. Something along those lines
Could be, though I'm not sure what power she could consume from Sylvanas. Earlier in the comic the whispers seemed to suggest that killing Vareesa would unlock Vareesas potential or give her purpose, which is also odd
James N I just mean it might not mean take something physically. It could mean something more emotional like closure. It is vague and could be interpreted in a lot of ways. In a "power" sense I thibk it would mean Sylvanas would no longer be a threat and Alleria would. Or even the power that giving in to the void and the whispers would give her if she did kill Sylvanas. It just seemed like a general idea that the void wants it so she should want it. I don't know. Didn't seem like something worth analyzing so thoroughly.
The void hates sylvannas because she will kill everything the void wants to corrupt. You can't corrupt a dead worldsoul.
Yea, also she might have huge resistance to void since she is undead, and she is also very powerful and have huge resources (horde), maybe that is why void is scared of her.
Undead Treants, new Allied Race, confirmed!!
Justin Liller because that’s just how we think these days.
Cynical humans making absurd guesses about future allied races for humorous affect, new Allied Race, confirmed!
Jason Allen now that’s funny
I read the Void whispers as being entirely situational, based on who is nearby. Alleria can handle thst because of her love for Turaylon and Arator.
But look at how Alleria reacts to Sylvanas. In my opinion, the Void is simply playing on Alleria's fear of the undead sister, hatred of the Horde, and disbelief that her sister is both.
And the Void won here. Alleria leaves, Sylvanas is left brooding, and we already know BfA.
The Void speaks half truths, and does play off how Alleria feels. I don't think she really loves Turalyon anymore not because she is more different now but because how invested in the void she is and how opposite Turalyon is to that. Taliesin may on to something with Arator but I don't think he will be killed off as a plot to make Alleria into crazy void bitch that will destroy everything> I think Arator will be the medium between Light and void and go through a journey with both ( like a disc Priest only he's a pally so I guess Disc pally).
BIG JOSH'S BIG HOUSE OF BIG BEEF The void speaks half truth , since they can play simulations of reality that's why they can show people visions of what could be and could not be , the light can do that too but the whispers are gentle and comes from the naaru itself. The void wants to get rid of sylv because she can't be manipulated because undead are already resistant to the void . We need to figure out what the sisters symbolize.
I dont think it's not just because Sylvanas/undead cant be manipulated/corrupted but also because they are death and real death is final, absolute, uncorruptable, and cannot be without meaning death has to exsist and a reality. Since I think this is the case it can explain both why the Void and Light has immense hatred for the undead and will immediately destroy anything undead or that deals with death. It also explain why Lich king was never corrupted in northrend by the old gods and why the Naaru of light reacted strongly against them dispite during wotlk it was played off as pallies and horde and alliance vs Arthas and DK kind of a thing.
blueriku which makes it reasonable , since ice crown is built from saronite and the scourge are resistant to it but years of exposure and you can hear the ghouls talking gibberish and void like , so the scourge or forsaken can still be corrupted but they have like 99% resistant to the void. There is a literal old god near them and they are not corrupted. Death : sylvanas and the scourge or forsaken , anything undead is just a pawn of the cosmic power to restore the balance of power since the major powers fell and the void reacted first so the light followed to counteract and restore the balance too , leaving death the final enemy so the void can have only 1 , the eradication of death is an ultimate win for the void. Death can't be manipulated by the void and is indirectly an ally of life and light , the final defense of the balance of power . Without death then life and the light is very vulnerable . Even now the naaru is nearly extinct and we know they will eventually turn and they are fading to the void making the light really weak right now. The void already has an almost infinite army around the distant planets , if they can manage to open a gate or rift for their army then the light would be eradicated , but first they need to get rid of death and make the light and its followers turn against it so they can act behind the curtain and set their plan.
Veeresa and her hobbit sons.
Allied Race confirmed! Hobbits coming in BFA!
That was the whole point of this comic. It wasn't forshadowing plot points. It was revealing hobbit allied race for BFA. lol
Reminds me of BABYLON 5: the war between order and chaos. I guess we know by now that both sides do not care about good an evil. I have the impression that the Naaru would not mind an orderly yet evil society.
Death is the obvious end of all possibility and that is what the void lords fear most. Which also reinforces Sageras decision to exterminate whole planets.
Petra Meyer bringing up B5 will always guarantee an up vote
Sylvanas wanted to kill them originally, but Vereesa's honest words touched her, spurring her to spare her sisters' lives.
New series title: Teatime with Taliesin.
Here lies Arator Windrunner
TBC 2.0.3 - BFA 8.2.0
He gave a quest a few years ago.
"You didn't have to do that, Sylvanas...that's weird." I spit out my water I laughed so hard XD
On a scale of 1-10, hard was the water spit out?
I know this is a small thing to complain about.. but why the fuck is Turalyon still in armor? I can understand it by Alleria, she is visiting her sister from the opposite faction, but they are in Stormwind, finally chilling after the war against the Legion, and It does not seem like they recently arrived direct after a battle or something. Like Jesus Turalyon, take off that lightforged combat armor, pull on some sweatpants and chill, you are on vacation.
lol bro every npc in game still have there same armor on
Wendigo its WoW. You're either armed to the teeth or naked as a murlock, there is no inbetween.
I heard some content provider talk about a proposed transmog option where when you crossed over into a major city or sanctuary you would automatically change into a 'casual' set of clothes. (Might have been Kelani, might have been T&E. don't remember.) Sounds good to me.
Green Jesus put a piece of cloth on him, and Thats about it
He IS on Vacation, he is playing WoW, duh.
I don't know about sylvanas' lie. Killing them might not have been a betrayal in her eyes considering what may be in the plans of the "true enemy". In that case couldn't the lie have been either of the 1st 2?
'Take from her what you need' ' You have sacrificed greatness for false feelings'....
Ok, 2 questions: What does an avatar of the void NEED from Sylvanas that will make them great? Sylvanas isn't the only forsaken so it must be something else, maybe the Val'kyr?
Question 2: I agree with a point Bellular made; what if Sylvanas' death speech at the end is purely to save face with her rangers and allow Blizzard further manipulation of the WOW audience?
I'm more worried for Vereesa than Arator. Part of me feels like if she dies, the other two will go full crazy abomination on each other.
But yeah, Arator is probably dead.
If you go by the cosmology, there are six factions: light (naaru), shadow (void/old gods), life (wild gods), order (titans), disorder (burning legion), death (undead). The light is too busy being arrogant and righteous. The burning legion was a threat and we smacked them down. The titans do their own thing and are dealing with Sargeras. The wild gods are too busy playing with trolls and elves. That leaves the undead.....which means Bolvar and Sylvannus may end up saving everyone.
Sylvanas*
I will say, I think the reasons Alleria is being so standoffish with Turalyon is because she's scared of falling for the whispers. If she does, he dies. So it's gonna be one of those" if you love him, leave him" type of things. And this is why I agree that we'll see Alleria grow more distant over BfA.
And I think the void is afraid of Sylvanas and her undead because they are uncorruptable.
I think you're right, but that's also straining her relationship with Turalyon. Marriages don't always fail because they stop loving each other. Sometimes the first crack forms and widens because of love.
Yes, this is what I'm saying.
Sylvanas does not serve death, she serves undeath.
The agony of birth and death and rebirth - this is the Wheel of Fate, the purifying cycle which sustains all life.
Undead are an abomination, a plague which leeches this land of its spiritual strength.
They obstruct the flow of life and death. Their souls stagnate in their wretched corpses.
But the Wheel must turn. Death is inexorable and cannot be denied.
Kudos for that Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver quote :P
They do not die, they do not live. They are outside the cycle.
Death is for the living. It has no power over the damned.
-Lich King
To be honest how i made sense of the Sylvanas part is a bit more complicated and less straightforward but would make that way towards morally grey a thing.
How i saw it is that Sylvanas met up with the other sisters with a plan for both outcomes where they resent/discriminate her for being undead or they realize they all have been through a lot but they are still sisters after all.
So she thought of the game where the other two would explain how they feel about the past and the present a bit. Then there would be 2 ways to go about what she says at the end.
She either planned from the beginning to not say anything because she didnt want to pretend everything is fine between them since she was getting ready for war with the alliance or she didnt say anything only because Vareesa stopped them from fighting which makes Sylvanas think that she doesnt know if her third statement is true or not.
But she did not expect Vareesa to apologize so sincerely to her and is why she clenches her fist to keep her emotions in check. When the rangers come out of hiding she still says she wants them dead but that just made me think she did not want to see her as a weak leader that would leave them for her sisters.
The third party: The Elves.
N Jeffrey Void Elves and Blood Elves can never work together now because Void Elves could be able to corrupt the Sunwell and the Blood Elves will never trust them again because of that. Similarly there is too much bad blood between Tyrande and Thalyssra at this point to work together in the same faction as well.
Every elf for himself. On a shelf.
@Vados well orcs and high/blood elfs used to kill each other all the time still high/blood elves are in the horde?... mmmmmmmmmmhhhhhhhh?????
Naw that is the all party mate. The rest of them are just sub parties that fall underneath them. Much like the green party. All are subject to the dankness that is Elven culture.
@Heetesh Ramchurn Mielfs? Where the E is silent?
i said it before and before, Sylvanas isnt Garrosh 2.0, is just a more harsh leader that green Jesus. But the void fear her. and that is cool
If you've watched any of the Pyro's theories about the balance of life and death, the true enemy might not be the death itself but the cheating of it. And that's exactly what Sylvanas is doing. She's cheating death.
I think the author was using a literally device to let us know what the lie was. Sylvanas' 2 sisters both tell the lie in their second statement. Which means if this holds true for Sylvanas, her false statement would be the warchief one. Even if Sylvanas kills and raises her sisters I doubt she'd view it as a betrayal and more like a thing of mercy, reuniting her family.
What webcam do you use anyway?
You should name this series "Talkiesin and Evitell!" Love the channel, thank you for fantastic discussion and perspective on WoW content!! Absolutely addicted
Anyone else get proper creeped out by the faces in the comic? Can't pinpoint why but it's somewhat wrong.
Good old morally grey sylvanus amrite.
Well at least she is literally grey. Thats got to count for something right?
morally grey my ass, she is no better than the man who made her what she is, Arthas would be proud of her.
No possible way she can be evil, Blizz said so themselves!!!
Yeah when you thought it couldn’t be more ridiculous welp
Yeah, quite grey, as in planning the murdering of her own sisters in betrayal grey.....
One: I also think something detrimental will happen to Vereesa, based on her conversation with her sprogs---I mean, children. She says something a long the lines of "Some day you two will only have each other, hopefully a long, long time from now, so you two mustn't let petty stuff bother you." And what that tells me is that one way or another, those sprogs will be left without a mother. Perhaps Sylvanas will turn her. Whatever happens at Teldrassil, we shall see.
Two: I'm convinced that each second statement is the lie, even in Sylvanas' case. We saw that with Alleria and Vereesa, obviously. But, if you noticed, Sylvanas very much does ***not*** betray her sisters, despite that seeming like the obvious lie. It would actually make sense that she is unhappy with her title of Warchief. She did not ask for it, and her true dedication is to the Forsaken. While she may respect the other races of the Horde, they are not her responsibility. She is the dead leading the living, which isn't right. And, if we spin it right, her raising them isn't a betrayal, at least maybe in Sylvanas' eyes. It's a true act of love for her. She still wants to be with them, she misses them deeply. It's either she's alive, or they're undead with her. Perhaps to her, it wasn't going to be a betrayal.
yes
Just an excellent video. I don't always get on board with your conspiracies, but I could listen to you theorycraft for hours. You have a lot more insight than most WoW RUclipsrs, and have more input than simply repeating what's already been said.
Fun fact: at 11:42, we can see that the Windrunner sisters are dancing. This is a nod to the painting 'The Three Graces' by Rubens.
I love how the artists put this bit of Classical Culture into this!
Everywhere
Nice catch
rather than Aleria not being as into her relationship with Turalyon I more got the vibe she is worried their recent divergence will be too much to overcome, not her just being tired of it
Perhaps death, in this instance, could represent nothingness. Both the Light and the Void want to rule the universe, in essence. However, with death, there is nothing. Like you said, with everything being dead there would be nothing for the void to feed upon, and nothing for the light to control. That is what would make Sylvanas the "true" enemy.
Pretty much thinking the same thing. The Void and the Light are very much active forces, and forces of change. They feed or influence the living as a result. Sylvanas is ... static, unchanging, and due to her fear of the afterlife would prefer it stay that way. Death (even undeath) is stagnation ... nothingness to some degree.
But it is not nothingness. True death is nothingness. What Sylvanas wants is slavery. Kill them, bring them back, keep them under my heel.
And think about this, she can't just kill everyone. The Forsaken are constantly losing limbs and having to replace them. For that to continue you need living people that can be harvested. It's the vampire conundrum. So she wants to kill most of the world and res it under her control, then use the rest of the living as cattle basically.
Jason Poyner I agree with this notion!
Nah, Sylvanas is not the ultimate overlord of death, she does not own it. It's actually stupid that Blizzard is pushing the Void and Undeath apart each other since originally it was the Void where the shadow and undeath comes from, but more retcons I guess?
Remember, this is a speculation video. Blizzard has never said that Sylvanas in the lord of Death, neither did they say that Undeath is an enemy to the Void. The Void could be afraid of Sylvanas for totally different things and Blizzard could take this into a whole different direction. Until we know for sure, I think it's inadaquate to complain and we can just speculate about the things we consider likely to happen.
After i read the comics i've changed my speculation of the whispers throughout Legion:
"In the hour of her third death she will usher in our coming" - After Alleria said she died twice i immediately suspected it is about her, but now with "Arator is my anchor..." thing, i really think blizz had referenced her with this whisper.
"Her heart is a crater and we had filled it" - After the comics i think it might be about Vereesa, since she is emotionally unstable and torn by her sister's conflict. The crater would be a double reference for her loss of Rhonin in Theramore, but also a metaphor for Dalaran, which also left a crater in the past, and was ruled by Rhonin. She might set the blaze for a plot twist through Old God's influence.
Ogmot's vision about the "Lady wrapped in dark swirlies..." - definitely matches Sylvanas and her recent motivation to rule the undead, the question left unanswered is why Ogmot received this vision from the Void, i assume it's related to the Void's warning Alleria about Sylvanas, which many speculated that they fear her.
It will be reasonable for blizzard to hint about the Three Sisters plotline through whispers and visions, and i think all three going to play a major role in BfA or the next expansion.
the true enemy of everyones are the artists Blizzard chooses for their comics... dear god. I thought the 3 sisters were hot?!
Dude same
Lol, I feel the same way
Shadow vs Death, YIKES! I can see it now WoW: Battle of the edgelords!
Xyloki fuck you, you don’t understand my PAIN! Everything is just DARKNESS!
Xyloki big bad of the expansion... a DK Void elf named xxxlegolasxxx
akrom2010 lol
It makes sense that the Void would consider Death of all things to be the "true enemy". Because despite what we were once made to believe of it, the Void doesn't want to truly end all things, it wants to reshape it in their image, which is why Chronicles Vol. 1 says "... dark spirits within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment." But Death does mean it, to truly be the end of all possibilities. And what other aspect of Warcraft's universe is more mysterious and misunderstood than that of Death itself?
Alarice wanting to feed off of the torment off of entire planets of beings is easily categorized as evil, so there's nothing to misunderstand about the void gods being evil.
My point wasn't whether the Void/Void Lords should be categorized as "evil" or not. It was purely giving reason as to **why** Void (and by extension, the Void Lords) would fear Death so much to consider it the "true" enemy. To reiterate, that's because the goals of Void and Death are very different from each other. One seeks to reshape the Universe in their image (Void), the other wishes to end its existence entirely (Death). So if your confusion lies in the fact that the Void may call the other "evil", that's likely a lie from the Void in hopes to manipulate Alleria to do what it wants. But the real reason Void's afraid of Death is because it'll mean that the Void will not be able to achieve its goal at all, ever, if Death achieves theirs first. Hence why the Void says Death will be "the end of all possibilities".
Alarice void lords are the lesser entities, void gods are the alleged rulers specifically, but to be fair they didn't really make that a good enough of a distinction since lords and gods sound so closely interchangeable.
anyways i must have misunderstood and thought you were somehow trying to imply the void was morally justified or something.
regardless, it's well known by know that the void basically just see's all living things as a food source to feed off of their torment/etc, obviously they don't want their food source extinguished.
I'm not saying the void can call death evil, however, it should be noted that to mortals, death is evil, because it's the end of their mortal existence and a scary thing that no one wants (however, in wow lore mortals apparently all go into some sort of afterlife, I'm still struggling to just start with the lore basics, all i know is I've seen lots of ghosts/souls/etc of passed away npc's so technically in WoW it is established that death isn't really nothingness, just a loss of the physical body in the physical world, while a soul lives on.
as for death as some kind of force against the void, i don't really get it, that's not really a contest, death is a event, a happening, it's not a entity or sentient force. (unless by "death" you are metaphorically just referring indirectly to sargeras/burning legion/(or anyone else) killing all mortals so that the void has no physical living beings left to feed on.
Death blocking the takeover by the void explains why sargarus wanted to destroy everything.
"Welcome to another episode of Taliesin Talks. The show where we go over all the things that don't fit into the weekly reset because of time. So, I, Taliesin will have a face to face talk with you guys going in to depth about different things that exist in the WoW universe too good for a short update."
You're welcome to have this into.
I love this series, thanks for analyzing the comics! It gives me a greater look into what it all could mean!
Alleria is a ticking timebomb RIP.
It's not only death, it's Life as well. The only other major force in the Comsic Forces that have some what power are the Druids and Nature. They're hurting from the events of Legion but So is Death after the events of Wrath.
The only reason the void is gearing up to make a move, and the light acting like space nazis is because the two stronger forces (Arcane and Fel) are all but deafeted with the Titans locked away and the Legion shattered. There's a power vacuum, and Death sees an opportunity through Sylvanas.
I don't think this is a conflict of just Light and Shadow any more, this is a fight for the soul of Azeroth. The Comsic Forces all want to mold her in their image. (And I'm calling it now she's going to have aspects of all forces and become a being/planet of True Balance).
That's why Sylvanas feels justified in her actions. Concepts like good and evil have no place amoung these cosmic forces, only the conflict stands.
Ninno of the last Unicorn Omg yes , I agree . The balance of power is shattered , the emerald dream is in near ruins and half of the treats and ancients died and their connection to the emerald dream is weakening because teldrassil fell and they can't go to the dream. The arcane Titans, the ones the void feared most is gone leaving 1 left, Azeroth , shifting the tides of war since it is the Titans that were holding them back, the legion with its immortal burning crusade is shattered and its army is separated throughout the fel realms . We can see planets being consumed by the void at a faster rate and the light doing the same with draenor.
Ninno of the last Unicorn I main druid and I WANT THIS. Life vs Death vs Void vs Light would be really interesting. And how would the Nightmare fit in??? AND we have new "druids" (im guessing Kul Tirans differ somehow from the other 4 druid races) so it's a great opportunity for FRESH LORE!!??!?!?
Carly Brown Nightmare is a corruption of the dream , used by the oldgods to ruin the emerald dream weakening life.
Why Elves look like Kul Tiran females in this comic
They actually look like elves always did. You might need new eyes.
I ment their body not faces obviously
Let's use 18:50 as an example ... how do they look any different than older pictures?
I agree that they look less absurd than some depictions with unnatural wasp-like tails (which make them look as if they were born wearing a corset), but the comic doesn't really deviate from the majority of the "elvish" look from Warcraft 3 to now.
Elves has to look like they were born with corsets. Thats how they are in game or any other depiction until now. The artist wanted to give them "realistic" body types but they are ELVES,give them the body type of an ELF
What I love about your “ Lore Archeology” the discussions you have after and the damn laughs I always have
The whispers of the void normally talk with lies but the void was talking from Fear
They've shown Yogg be unable to corrupt Arthas, potentially meaning undead in general cannot be corrupted. Sylvanas raising, well ideally everyone in her mind, back as undead would make far too many people immune to the void's influence. An obvious concern in their general plans. Also assuming undead *are* in fact immune, the biggest threat to the void would be some kind of holy-undead hybrid being. Not that *that* would ever happen >.>
With the void being able to see many possible futures, I could certainly see why anyone raising void-immune beings would be viewed as a major threat.
What really bothered me was at the end neither Vereesa or Alleria considered that Sylvanas's lie was, "I'd never betray you my sisters." Didn't they at all find it suspicious that she withheld revealing hers? Telling them that she wasn't proud of being Warchief or that she doesn't mind being undead isn't that big of a deal, so clearly she doesn't want them to know she'll betray them. I hope the 2 sisters realize this later on... Kind of ridiculous if they don't.
Just keep it simple
Taliesin Talks
:-)
imagine the "alied races" becoming disgusted by the actions of the horde and alliance and forming a new faction!
I had the same reaction when I first read the comic; I found it interesting that the Void considers Sylvanas a threat.
Great video as always, the bit about the kids made me laugh. Keep up the good work :)
According to Knaifu, Light is not the enemy to the Void, "I know the naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters... in time." Hence the Light can't be true enemy to the Void but the 3rd opttion, which is tied to Sylvanas - is.
Go check the WoW Cosmos division. Undead/Death - Void Lords/Shadow - Titans/Order - Wild Gods/Nature - N'aaru/Light - Burning Legion/Disorder. Which means that Void doesn't fear the Titans, Wild Gods, N'aaru, Sargeras. It does however fear Death.
Argus is the titan of death. That's why Sargeras wanted Argus on his side. Light, void and the Titans are only scared of one thing - they're scared of dying. Looking at Sylvanas actions, she serves death and the Loa knew it. That's why Voljin wanted her to be next Warchief, the Loa told him.
This is an interesting thought, and if Bwonsamdi really hates the undead, there may be another Loa out there who is coming into power or trying to set a certain set of events in play for some obscure reason.
If anything this would be a good thing for WCIV or WoW 2. Light, Shadow, Death, also it's a new type of Rock Paper Scissors. Void beats light, Light beats death, Death beats void.
Lawlhero oh man, new game engine with WoW 2 would be amazing. It doesn't make sense though for blizzard to do this because it's too risky.
if Void beat light there would be no balance between light and dark :|
That's exactly what this all RPS thing is all about. If Void beats Lights, there is no balance, so what is keeping the balance then ? Death. In this perfect triangle of Forces, Death is keeping the balance between the light and the dark, by being neither one of those nor bound to any of those. And it all makes pretty much sense, where does the Death Magic comes from ? It's a Legion creation, the Scourge and all that, and what was Sargeras chasing after in the beginning of all things ? He was chasing after the void, so him pushing for the creation of a third force able to beat the void is quite logic I think. It does all makes sense, even though I'm sadly pretty sure this will always be nothing but theories, I surely would love to join the forces of Death and bend my knee in front of the Banshee Queen in a restless war against the void and the light, until my last undead breath comes out in an epic WoW 2.
What about Lizard and Spock?
expansion
What a video, thank you for the spectulation taliesin!
best WoW channel out there, no questions asked, love you guys
Im a Horde player but i always dreamt that i could play with a "Neutral" faction... I dont like being forced to pick sides, the world is not black and white, we are all shades of grey (dont be confused with the other 50 shades) and i wish i could be from neither sides. And MAYBE, the true enemy for the void is the undead, because they cant be affected by this "mind control" (im just rambling shit, because i dont know if they have that "immunity").
(extreme centrist)
i'm yellow
Yeah... but Horde and Alliance aren't black and white, either. Alliance love to scream that Horde is evil over and over, but it's not. Both factions are gray, and they always have been.
Leveling affliction in WotLK was nightmare - at least they were immune to fear.
Know those feels the faction extremists kinda turned me off to the concept,I play primarily horde but have a few alli toons and while I will play BFA,I feel as though at this point,the faction war is forced and artificial when the better approach would be to drop the faction BS and make new enemies waging war on them [I say this for those who like to grip but it's WAR craft. You can engage in war without having to keep relying on the red vs blue/autobot vs decepticon bullshit]
The "Death" faction sounds cool, but... what about the forsaken characters? I really want it (as long as you can join them, because all hail the lich king), but I'm on edge about the forsaken players. And the Death Knights as well.
What happened to orc players in horde civil war? why there is there the concept of desolate council? forsaken players will be the part of insurrection at that point.
Imagine if they did a second Lich King expansion, and for the start of it all Death Knight and Forsaken characters are enemies to every other player and have their own questing. Then there's a quest to unlock the first raid-tier which brings them all back.
There's a "death" faction : the Scourge... We killed them 5 expansions ago... I feel Sylvanas is just weird Arthas / Garrosh blend that feels inferior to both in their respective motivations.
Forsaken and Death Knights could be pulled into the new Undeath faction when Bolvar decides to end his apparent five expansion long icy toilet break.
No, we just decapitated that faction, we didn't kill it. "Without it's master's command, the restless scourge will become an even greater threat to this world." -Terenas Menethil 2010
I think the third faction will be Void focused, led by Alleria. Why would the big bad Blizzard has been hyping up become a new "good guy" team? Well, the Horde used to the be bad guys in Warcraft 1 and 2, and then the Scourge became "playable good guys" through the Forsaken. And this comic is very clearly setting up a three way conflict between the Windrunner Sisters. Let me explain.
During this comic there are a lot of hints that despite all three sisters missing each other and wishing they could go back to the good ole days of Quel'thalas, each one is shown to have new loyalties and priorities. Sylvanas has become the Warchief and thanks to her Val'kyr is quasi-immortal, which means that unlike Vol'jin she will never lose control of it. The Horde, so long as it serves her, is Sylvanas' power and refuge which she has no reason to give up. Vereesa speaks about her belief that the Blood Elves can be redeemed, signalling that she see's a united High Elf faction rejoining the Alliance rather than serving the Horde. She and the Silver Covenant High Elves are staunch supporters of the Alliance, and they will not leave. Alleria, on the other hand, is newly returned to Azeroth, which has changed greatly since she left. She says at one point "This... was home. I left... to protect... this?" She fought for a thousand years to save her world from the Burning Legion, only to come back and find it destroyed by a new enemy. In her time away from Azeroth she learned not to trust the Light, and upon her return finds that Death has claimed her home. To make matters worse, she is fighting a battle, by herself, against the Void, a tireless enemy, and I believe the comic makes it clear that one day she will lose.
I think that the Void will eventually overtake Alleria's mind, and she will start a new faction of those loyal to the Void. It will be made up of people who see the Light as tyrannical and Death as the ultimate defeat. Even a universe consumed by the Void, as chaotic and maddening as it would be, would be preferable to what the other powers aspire to. But why would she need to start a new faction? Well the Alliance will eventually be unable to accept her, as they are followers of the Light and wary of her Void powers. The leader of the Alliance is, in fact, a priest of the Light, and thus a staunch supporter of that power. The Horde, meanwhile, is led by what can be considered the embodiment of Death, a being who has in the past been shown to be interested in spreading the curse of undeath to gain new allies. Every member of the Horde who falls in battle and every mortal they slay can become a new Forsaken, a new follower of Death. Neither faction can be a haven for someone who fully embraces the Void.
So the Alliance becomes the faction of Light, the Horde becomes the faction of Death, and Alleria starts the faction of Void, beginning a new three way war over the the fate of the universe. Alleria will lead the Void faction as the Sister of Shadow, Sylvanas will lead the Horde as the Sister of Death, and poor Vereesa will oppose them both as the Sister of Sorrow.
introduction of void elfs to alliance already declined 3. faction
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/f/fd/TheCosmicForces-WoWChronicleSample.png/revision/latest?cb=20160313175241
No. WoW is a strong two faction game because everyone knows of horde and alliance. Even people who never played WoW. And everyone knows of course that the Alliance is full of miserable people you should ignore.
Giving that up would be stupid. The horde is also not the "bad" faction. The forsaken are a bit, of course, even mostly in a mad and loveably quirky way.
You have the best speculations and you're very entertaining! That's why I'm happy to be a patreon!
I hope there will be a third faction, Glory for Sylvanas!
Good Stuff, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to your interpretation of the comic and the events. It was like discussing it with a knowledgeable friend, but I had no input.
To me, this seems like a lot of misdirection revolving around Sylvanas' character. I feel like Blizzard is pushing hard in one direction, with the intention to eventually turn it around on the player.
There's more subtlety in this comic than one might want to believe. I think Sylvanas was being honest when she states she "would never betray my sisters"
That said, I also haven't read the "Before the Storm" preview, or anything coming from the book so, maybe I'm wrong.
That's what I thought, and in the end it did not betray them.
In that case, one of the other statements would've been a lie, and TBH I can't see Sylvanas lying about the other two statements.
She really, REALLY prefers undeath to death, but I seriously can't believe that Sylvanas has never missed being alive again. And while she's not really hugely into the Horde, Sylvanas is always happy to be in a position of power.
I'd say that Sylvanas would indeed betray her sisters. She's not completely devoid of emotional attachment, but she is more than willing to betray even the people she loves in order to get what needs to be done, done. That pragmatism is the center of her character.
14:13 THERE IS NO TIME FOR GAMES! Actually maybe just one....
She should have said that. Community would have lost it.
Sylvanas, for someone who has no time for games she is either always in them or playing them
Is it just me or the artstyle in the comic seems off?
Balloon Person Whenever the PoV is from the side it looks great but when it is in front of a character it just looks weird especially sylvanas.
Balloon Person looks like a Cg art hentai lol
i suspect that most of it is "traced" art, which has gotten really popular lately (marvel has artists that are pretty bad about it). that's why the bodies look okay, but the faces can seem really, really off. because they're tracing a face, but then they're having to go "off trace" to finish the expression or get what the character is supposed to look like.
the comics are often done by different artists, thus different "styles" are inevitable.
I hate the art style too
Thanks Patreons! You're the real MVP.
Huh, i think that is the first time in 14 years ive genuinely cared and paid attention to wow lore, well done good sir, thanks for the story.
Honestly, I think that Arator won't be the key point of Alleria succumbing, but the key point of Sylvanas and Alleria's relationship. My bets are Sylvanas will save Arator,, and maybe Giramar and Galadin too, at some point.
The art was really rough in this comic compared to the others, but I really enjoyed the lore.
Curious why and how Turalyon has a fixed sword or if that was just oversight. And How he and Alleria can touch, maybe because Turalyon is wearing gloves? Just not sure. It's clear their relationship is on the rocks though.
I feel so bad for Vereesa though, she's gone through so much due to both of her sisters as well as losing her husband who she loved so much. They also make her out to be so much weaker than the other two. I'd love to see her become this ultra powerful character, but I think she will always be this motherly voice of reason instead. Maybe she can be the one to keep Slyvanas and Alleria from ever going truly evil.
Really excited to see where this lore leads to.
For some reason, that made me think of Michael Jackson and his gloves. MJ was void-touched confirmed!
The art was passable, why are you-
*Ooooohhhh.* That's- you're-
Ew.
I actually interpreted the voids hatred of sylvanas (undead) to stem from the fact that undeath breaks the cycle of life and death.
if you look at the void as chaos/entropy, then couldnt death be a return to chaos or a return to the void? and since sylvanas and the forsaken are undead it keeps the void from having control over everything. Especially if she keeps increasing the number of undead/forsaken. This would explain why the void calls her a "violation".
Even when concerning the naaru (Actual beings of liight) Xalatath said that they are merely lost brethren and will return to the true path soon. I guess the void hates defying chaos/entropy more than light because the light will eventually become shadow? Maybe? Just random rambles
Yes, light and shadow are natural life phases for the naaru. Undeath stops this cycle and is the enemy of both.
Taliesin's Talks. Simple, alliteration, to the point.
AWESOME commenting :D totally laughed my ass off. And you are still staying serious, love it! :)
There are no portals in the Greyfang Enclave! 7:34 Well, I guess we know now that they won't be there for BFA. On a more serious note, the way Alleria's whispers..... There are mental illnesses that manifest that way, were the person just has to put on a happy face and pretend their brain isn't doing horrible shit behind the scenes. Heavy stuff.
Teigan I was just gonna say, sounds similar to what people with some strains of OCD (the constant intrusive thoughts,) and some with schizophrenia have to put up with.
11:30 - Probably going to end up as a Caverns of Time "What if?" dungeon, like End of Time and the "What if?" Deathwing won.
15:30 - Yep, but its cultural not racial.
18:45 - Elves.
19:50 - Shes not keeping it under control. Each instance of whispers in this comic comes with a sudden shift in mood or a reaction to them. They are effecting her. In the begging after the whispers tell her to kill her husband she suddenly backs away, sure something that could have happened anyway, but this is the moment and the thoughts we were given to look at. When arguing with Sylvanas she is overcome with her rage as the shadows scream in her head. While she didn't react when talking with Vereesa, the other two seem to show that the void is capable of at least nudging her.
26:30 - In death there is stagnation, should everyone and everything become undead essentially undoes fate. The light seeks the one true path, the shadow follows every path, the dead are still, they walk no roads. Dead men tell no tales.
This keeps me alive till the weekly reset.
What truly stands out to me from this comic in fitting with the overarching lore of where this expansion seems to be going is the final scene from the "Son of the Wolf" comic earlier in legion. It shows Velen and Anduin, two very divine beings in the light, sitting on the Exodar. I think its important because they aren't in Stormwind, and they appear to be the only two leaders present. This might further lend itself to a void/light/undead story, especially when Anduin says everything will be over after the impending battle. Maybe some final showdown between the light and void and undead that determines the fate of Azeroth, and thereafter, the WoW universe beyond Azeroth. Not sure if anyone else noticed how this comic could very easily tie-in to that one. Just my thinking! :) love your content T&E, so much so that I joined patreon just to support you two! keep it up :D
Yes! These types of vids should be called "Nerd Outs". I love Sylvanas and i'd follow her into the Northern Tundra!
I loved your analysis.
What if...
...Blizzard is setting up a third faction based on Life and Death on one axis and Light and Shadow on another axis.
...Sylvanas's true path in the lore is to become Death. She did follow Helga's suggestion and isn't she the Nordic Goddess of Death?
...Arthas Menethal true purpose in the lore was to put Sylvanas on her path to Lady Death. maybe, that is why Arthas couldn't really kill her. Perhaps, that is why she was the only person in the lore whose body was put in a box and separated from her spirt.
I agree with you on the key parts of the PDF Book. However, I think Sylvanas and Alleria interaction was more revealing on a psychological level.
I feel and think that Sylvanas promise to never betray my sisters is more telling in a psychological way. In her pathology, she believes her sisters abandoned [betrayed] her and left her to deal with Arthas on her own. Which is why when Vereesa finally acknowledges that behavior [when she agreed to stay with Sylvanas and then ran away and abandoned her] was important in the lore. Vereesa did abandon [betrayed] Sylvanas which in the lore is the last time Sylvanas allowed herself to love and have hope. That was the point in the lore where Sylvanas accepted that her path was to be alone. The Undead has no hope. They can only survive. What drives Sylvanas is an obsession which is fueled by anxiety and that leads to her compulsive behaviors. And that pathology is from abandonment. Where she is today is because she had to claw her way there without any help.
I agree that the void having high anxiety and genuine fear of Sylvanas is the most telling from this book.
...Alleria's son Arator dies in a battle and Alleria loses control and in her rage accidentally burns down Teddressil (not sure the spelling) the Night Elf Tree. What if Sylvanas takes the blame for her sister who actually burns the tree down? And that starts the war.
I think the lie is the Proud to be Warchief of the Horde. Sylvanas never wanted to be Warchief. She was content with being in the shadow of being the leader of the Forsaken. Sylvanas kills Cecil Menathil (not sure if that is the right name), Arthas sister because she tried to usurp her power as Queen of the Forsaken. In War Crimes, Sylvanas said that she had accepted her death a long time ago.
Thank you.
I do think you're wrong on the idea of a third faction. There is no way gameplay wise a third faction can work, most people just wouldn't join it. This game has been built for two factions since early in the original alpha, it's just part of the DNA of the whole thing. Can't see it happening. If Sylvanas were to found her own faction it would be something like the Iron Horde i.e. another external threat for us to kill.
As for whom the true enemy is, I think Death is a good answer but let me suggest another one. Free Will, the ability of mortals to choose for ourselves. Sylvanas and her Forsaken took back their free will after all from the Lich King. It defines them. The Light lays out a single path you must follow, you have no choice. The Shadow lays out multiple paths but only wants you to follow the ones that serve it's ends, the chaos it promotes just part of the long term plan to see everything fall under their rule.
But free will, the ability of mortals to deny both the light and the shadow and to follow their own path, THAT might be the true enemy.
Which means WoW is in the middle of ripping off Babylon 5 and JM Straczynski should sue.
And blizzard already has enough problems with two faction balance to just put a new one.
Obelisk Kai you know forsaken are just sylvanas slaves now, so free will...
I genuinely really enjoy this take on the concept of the comic because I truly believe that Sylvanas has ulterior motives that are sort of hidden at the moment. I believe she's making choices thinking miles ahead of the opposition, and I don't think she's evil. I think when the time comes, she's gonna step up and be the hero of the story, rather than the villain. The free will thing sort of helps strengthen this theory. Just because everybody believes the light to be a force of good doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Take the "purifying of Illidan" on the vindicaar. The Naaru seemed almost evil in its adamant attempt to cleanse Illidan's soul. The void is very much of the same, attempting to set things in motion that really only benefit their goals and not necessarily the goals of the planet or the citizens within it. I believe Sylvanas is one of the few people right now not "brainwashed" for lack of a better term by the light or the void.
You used words that previously existed, im sewing.
All of the regular forsaken get to choose whether or not they want to be part of the forsaken and serve Sylvanas.
Okay, so I am a shallow aesthete who is focused on image instead of content. The Windrunner sisters are beautiful. They are always described that way. They are always depicted that way. While I recognize that different cultures have different standards of beauty I'm pretty sure that if Picasso saw this comic he would say "Damn! What's up with those faces." Honestly, they look like chubby frat boys who've dressed as transvestites for Halloween. My first run through I had to read the text without looking at the panels. And as always, fantastic vid.
my thoughts exactly
yeah, the art isn't really great. in some panel those beautiful sisters even looked like a man.
.....
Did you pick Picasso because of how 'awful' his faces were to underline your point? Or did you pick him thinking he was talented in illustrating "classic beauty"? I'm going to read it as the former. I understand what you're saying either way, I think, but I like this artist with all their faults(?) much better than Picasso.
Heidi Wilde man, the joke just went over your head...
Taliesin Discuss (title for the new stuff that you decide to go mind boggle on the topics that pops up) :D
It makes sense. Think about the various angles each of the major forces have taken in trying to secure their agenda w/ Azeroth/the world soul. The Legion was soundly defeated multiple times, crippling them and setting them back. Look no further than Kil'jaeden's frustration in the 7.2 cinematic towards Sargeras. Kil'jaeden tried to stop brute forcing their way in through a mix of subterfuge and manipulation by creating the Lich King. Unfortunately for them, it was a foolish decision to choose such an inherently untrustworthy candidate to spearhead the campaign. However, the initial overwhelming success of the plague cannot be denied. It allowed Archimonde to step into our world for the first time relatively unimpeded. After all, what did the Legion really lose that time around in pursuit of summoning one of their greatest? Nothing, really. The Scourge were just pawns. However, that's what led to another traumatic loss for the Dark Titan. Archimonde pretty much straight up saying the Scourge was useless now that he had arrived was the last straw.
They betrayed the Legion in the end and became allies to noone. This unpredictable, volatile nature lead to the downfall of the Lich King. It makes even more sense why Yogg-saron was sticking his tentacles in the Scourge's cookie jar back in Wrath: they were relying on us to contain the Scourge. They relied on us to repel and even destroy the Burning Legion. This may seem like a huge benefit to the Void, however, it also frees up Sylvanas from having to coordinate the Horde across the cosmos. The Light, while the opposite and an eternal enemy of the Void, does not and will never oppose the Void's end-game. The Light seeks to preserve and defend life, not destroy or convert it into something else. They may be a perpetual annoyance of the highest caliber, but, nothing that would ever cripple the Void's ultimate goal.
Unlike the Legion and the Void, Sylvanas has been accepted on Azeroth. She became a casualty of the plague, a native from the beginning. She assisted in fighting all of these threats, even if her means were unacceptable to some, and has been appointed Warchief. Her influence -combined with Northrend already being an entire continent of permanently scarred undeath - threatens to swallow the entire world. The Void's fear likely stems from ignorance. Could Azeroth rot from the outside in, doing irreversible damage to the World Soul? Could the loss of life to undeath kill or otherwise decay the sleeping titan beyond repair? If so, then the Void's ultimate plan would be laid to waste and their only shot would be to brute force their way in. However, as we saw with the War of the Ancients and the fall of the Black Empire, such an approach will inevitably fail.
Most of the Forsaken-related questlines for the Horde in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms revolve around blighting the land further rather than doing anything to redeem life lost from the Scourge invasions. Sylvanas may not have the might of the Legion, but, she doesn't have to strongarm the world. She's already an integral part of it. Perhaps the Void sees this and recognizes how it all started: the Legion, via Ner'zhul, used Arthas to create a snowball effect which gave rise to the Banshee Queen as an avenger, rallying those who had lost everything. Now, the Void seek their own fallen champion in a Windrunner sister: Alleria. However, it may be too late. The Void Lords' patience could be their downfall, as Alleria wasn't too far gone to the point that she would outright murder her sister.
Slowly - just as Sylvanas herself began to accept and even embrace undeath - Azeroth is too. The Void Lords see this and tried to create their own Arthas in Alleria, but, even if they succeed, the hour of twilight may not come to pass if too much damage is done by Sylvanas and the blight/plague. That's probably why the whispers turned into a bloodthirsty frenzy, pushing Alleria as hard as they could, recognizing that this was their best and perhaps last chance. *Battle for Azeroth* may have multiple meanings, indeed.
Hey Taliesin doesn't it bother you a bit that the light is like weak force always? Neither the Legion or the Void see it as a real threat and the powerful light characters are far less powerful as you can see with Turalyon, Velen, and the Naruu ( which should be Old God Equivalents???).. I did like Anduin showed a little more in the cinematic, but as a Pally main I do feel we're on the losers side constantly..
This! One hundred times, THIS! Blizzard are edge lords, confirmed!
Eh. Poor pally. At least you're not a priest who's essentially just a "untrained pally" and who needed pallies during their own class campaigns. Get out of here. XD
Aurora S well, priests can still go Darth Vader style and wield an actual Old God in their hands... I've got the high ground :P....
like classic
Yeah I agree, the light seems to always get the short end of the stick
Sylvanas is going to be the hero we need but not the hero the alliance deserve
Crown Me we don't need her,we don't want her,our hero is Anduin and Genn.
Lol, just wait. They have a history of turning raid bosses into chosen ones.
andwin bieber? LOL, nice hero
Leandro Lopez edgy emo corps? Nah ty.
As a suggestion for consideration. "Right Now in WoW"..
I totally saw the light box last time and was completely prepared for this comic.
You could call the series "Taliesin Talks" :) I was fascinated by the voices in Alleria's head and particularly how great a threat the Void finds Sylvanas... kind of suggests that the Legion and it's power (where Sylvanas' powers were born with Arthas) really are a significant threat to the Void.
Tal(k)iesin
Best name
The thing go SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Blizzard HIRE THIS voice actor immediately
Great video, Taliesin! Here's my two cents: I feel like the 'true enemy' of the Void wouldn't necessarily be death, but rather Undeath. Sylvanas has had this story arch involving her pursuit of immortality and her avoidance of the nothingness (*wink void wink*) that death poses. So, Undeath is basically an affront to the Void because it postpones the ever--present entropy that is the Void. It's not exactly immortality itself (à la dragon aspects, elves, etc.), but it's the idea that one can purposeful circumvent the entropic forces of the universe (i.e. play god) that the Void is so perturbed by.
Thank you for your video, loved it. ❤
Damn Sylvanas is definitely my new favorite character
The art in this one is so much better than the first. I hated that design. But honestly I'm super disappointed we aren't getting animated comics like Warlords. They were like the best thing from WoD, haha.
we got a few in legion too
interesting idea about a third faction. but i doubt it highly. way to much work for blizzard :D
First time poster, so hope you guys see it. Wife is a long time fan and got me hooked as well.
Anyways, idea for your new series. T.E.A. Time! Would stand for Taliesin and Evitel Analysts. I welcome feedback though!
Taliesins Perspective could be a good name for these videos