I don't usually turn on the waterworks for Blizzard's stuff but "Old Soldier" and this got to me, and both because I have such fond memories of Wrath of the Lich King.
As Taliesin mentioned, Tandred literally says this in game if you speak with him: "That bloke in the red shirt over there told me I wasn't canon. Well, obviously! I'm a mariner, not a cannon!" Cracked me up.
Personally, i don't give a fuck about Jaina and haven't for quite some time now. Sorry Taliesin, but I want this bitch killed already. And yeah, i see what Blizzard is trying to do but I'm not a 10year old, I've been playing this game since vanilla. A wise man once said... "times change". In fact I don't even care if half their leaders die. I will be more than happy to help to that. :/
only if Bitch Queen Sylvanas dies first. Jaina's made mistakes but she hasn't ordered the murder of a few thousand civilians out of petty spite because someone said her trigger word' hope'.
Katherine to Jaina: "It seems hope has returned... with you" Delaryn to Sylvanas in the burning of Teldrassil: "You can kill us... but you can not kill hope"
Let me use very good quote Sunwalker said to Anduin that would fit so well now to tell to Catherine. "I wonder, have you ever met our Warchief?" For Sylvanas!!! Death to the living!!!
Well let's be real, Arthas is *only* the one of the most important mortal lore character in all of Azeroth history, possibly after Gul'dan or Ner'zhul.
Spoiler Warning for those that haven't seen the Horde cut scenes. Taliesin mentions the similarity of the Kul Tiran fleet with the sunrise behind them and the Zandalari fleet with the sunrise behind them. While true, what struck me more was the “opposite direction” the stories progressed through. The Horde story shows the fleet and hope at the beginning and then the fall from power and turning to death (Bwonsamdi) to reclaim an echo of that power and hope is lost with the broken seal. The Alliance story starts with, Jaina specifically, already out of power, not seeking to return to power then ultimately bringing hope to Kul Tiras with the return of the fleet. Where have we had a discussion about hope before?
I've been having a really rough week, dealing with heartache and endless frustrations... World of Warcraft and your videos are helping get through the darkest of times. Thank you, Taliesin & Evitel, for being who you are, and for what you do :-) You are both appreciated!
Grasshopper! You might have an enemy at work. Keep your ears open and when you find out who your enemy is, drag his sorry arse to civil court and sue him until he is either very very sorry or broke.
Remember the verse "because she left his side" during Daughter of the sea? All the people standing behind her in that cutscene - she "left their side" -Arthas - obviously -Her father - again pretty obvious -Varian - if she would have been on the broken shore she could have saved him and she knows it. Plus that one time Varian was talking about peace between Alliance and Bloodelves meanwhile Jaina killed them in Dalaran -Rhonin - now this isn't her fault but I bet you would hate yourself as well if a friend sacrified himself for you -the little gnome girl - I forgott her name but jaina promised her parents she would watch over her in Theramore. She died in the blast.
Probably Uther, although why they made only his shoulder visible is just strange, why make it a mystery? Oh wait, I just remembered, didn't Uther get a new model and a new shrine update....hmmmmmmm
That was stupid in POTC though. He had a three decker 100+ gun ship of the line. The pirates had crappy single decker 20+ guns at the most. He should have completely toasted them. Think HMS Victory against a two single decker's, they wouldn't stand a chance. No idea why he didn't just fight them, he would have most likely won.
I don't cry. Like. Ever. But the first cinematic with Jaina and her mom had me crying the entire time. It made me realize how much I really enjoy Jaina as a lore character, and strengthened my love for the Alliance. Beautiful job on the cinematics.
The Kirin Tor knows, the Ebon Blade knows, Sylvanas knows, Tirion KNEW, and quite possibly most of the faction leaders and their advisors know. Anduin should be aware, or maybe no one told him yet, since it wasn't revelant and they didn't want to derail him.
I've been super critical of previous cinematics and plotting leading into this expansion, but this story arc is the reason why, and I have no shame in giving credit where credit's due. The whole Jaina arc throughout BFA is pure gold, and seeing this is what they're capable of is precisely why I get so outraged when they insult my intelligence elsewhere. Jaina has been, is, and is now solidified in my mind as one of, if not the best and most compelling characters in their entire history. And while her turning up in a flying arcane ship randomly out the blue may have been a cool 'epic' moment, it doesn't hold a candle to the genuine character driven story and growth she was given here. I don't think they needed to ret-con Boralus's state. Heck, the idea that she's standing up to protect the town despite it already being in ruin would have probably been even more powerful, sort of like her rising the ruins of her own life sort of thing. But that's quibbling at best. In any case, had they never done the War of Thorns and Lordaeron scenes and only given us this, I'd be completely satisfied and entertained and would think my money's been well spent. So great job Blizzard and more of this personal character driven storytelling over the impersonal wide-scope political stuff in the future would be very much appreciated.
i dont think that was retconning. The battle may have taken place in the morning, followed by them clearing out the fire. That said i would have loved to see some hints of the damage tho.
...Uh a bit nitpicky here but in the Culling Jaina really didn't give any advice or well.. Anything to Arthas. She banged on about there has to be another way but gave quite literally nothing of substance. And then left Arthas to do the bloody work. Like.. Thats 100% on Uther/Jaina from the perspective of the narrative.
"Oh no, undead and disease. What can I, a paladin, whose 'faith' isn't so much 'faith' as empirical fact backed up by blazing beacons of light and the ability to resurrect the dead, do? Guess I'll have to kill a metric ton of innocents. It's the only way."
It was definitely not within Arthas' power to do anything like cure the plague or resurrect everyone who died. If he could Anduin wouldn't have been pushed back by the plague at the Undercity with how strong he is with the light. Also resurrection is not an easy thing to do even once within the WoW lore.
You are comparing paladin powers in game with paladin powers in lore and that is not the same thing. Also if arthas wouldn't cull the stratholme than mal'ganis quite literally would have an undead army against lordaeron which was weak after the war with orcs. So I agree with OP in this regard because jaina and uther did nothing and had no other plan how to deal with it.
@Akhilesh P nah. You misunderstood what he cutscenes showed. Her father was wrong, but Jaina blamed herself for not trying to persuade him even more. Arthas was actually right, one way or another, but Jaina was just too heartbroken to either stop him or support him. Hence her blaming herself really hard. Now she finally does forgive herself. I don't remember what the Varian part was about, I have bad memory for non Arthas humans. Nevertheless, she never puts blame on others except herself, and a bit in her father after her mother gave her the pep talk. Either way, this is the way I think all of this should go.
Actually, while about the others you are right, with regards to Arthas I feel that Jaina's real regret was abandoning him. That "not offering any other options" was her real regret. She just walked away. She could have stayed, she could have looked for options, she could have even stood behind Arthas when, eventually, she noticed the futility of it all (as she did later on), and helped him keep his soul. She did nothing of the sort. She walked away. And that walking away is what she regrets the most.
*Is playing Starcraft II* *Oh, what kind of madness is this? Surely Taliesin wouldn't just use LK as clickbait right...* *Watches video instead of winning a game of starcraft only to find out LK was used as clickbait.* I have no regrets.
Damnit people.... If more had jsut gone to the Warcraft movie. We could of gotten some big budget Arthas and Jaina story telling.... They should of just started with WC3 and told that story.. Sigh
A fully animated movie at blizzard's quality would have cost too much, like it'd be awesome but it's just not feasible. And the story was changed because a) it's a movie, so the regular game version wouldn't have worked too well and b) they probably wanted to cater to a wider audience - that said I agree it could have been better.
There's so much storyline, I kind of hold out hope for a TV series, but I doubt we'll ever get it. (I didn't think the movie was so bad either, but yknow each to their own)
The trailer for that movie (speaking as someone who had never played wow before when that movie came out) looked weird, full of bad CGI and a bit creepy with those orcs. I don't think it was catered for non WoW players well. I certainly had no desire to watch it back then in my pre-wow days
As always Taliesin, an amazing analysis of the video. I like the way you analyse the story and I like the way Bay analyzes the technicalities of the video and the shooting and lighting and all. Keep up the good work guys. I also encourage everyone who can to support these guys on Patreon.
But he has good reason to be. Deathknights derive their power from him as much as Sylvanas does. Without him they'd all go mad and be mindless husks, his will is what allows them free will.
"The sunrise, a new dawn. All of these stories end with new beginnings, new hope". MEANWHILE, IN THE HORDE ENDING, FULL OF HORDE FAVORITISM, DEATHGODS LAUGH.
Honestly think that the short pokes of anduin having to find a wife will most defintely have domething to do with Taelia. They both seem around the same age and with the suggestion that they are going to spend dome time sharing stories. Watch this space - WOTLK 2.0 incoming.
Wait I didnt know there was a bit about Anduin finding a wife, i havnt read the book yet but I did just leave a comment saying I don't play alliance but from that short bit at the end im sayin Bolvar's daughter is the future queen of Stormwind.
My god I love Jaina and what they did with her. The cinematics, the voice acting, the expressions. I stand in awe Blizzard! I also love your analysis once again Taliesin. As always very in depth and I love it!
i love how in the heart of kul tiras cutscene they let the horns set in the moment the ships are revealed. although ive wondered how jaina didnt just boom- omegafrostnova the attacking ships. going back to her roots or not, she is still probably the most powerful mortal mage alive right now. even just thinking about being outmatched by a few boats is kinda ridiculous to me
I seriously love and am amazed at these videos. Your passion and excitement for the lore of Warcraft is so prevalent that it even gets ME excited and passionate about the lore of Warcraft. Love the thorough storyline explanations and thought-provoking questions that come about (Lich King) about things that I didn't even catch or had even THOUGHT about, previously. Surprised Blizzard hasn't hired you on yet. A+ Taliesin! Keep up the great work and hope you meet you at BlizzCon!
12:57 you missed mentioning the gnome girl with pink hair I forgot what's her name she died too at the bombing of Theramore & was an apprentice of Jaina during the novel Tides of War, but otherwise great analysis as always! Keep up the great work Taliesin! Hope u're having a wonderful time in BfA!
Amazing guys ! discovered your channel a few weeks back and I can't get bored with lore analysis, keep going ! and be sure I will be part of your patreons very soon
Taliesin you’re the art lecturer for context and contemporary studies I didn’t know I needed all my life!!! I mean seriously..you pointed out how every dead character was introduced with their back shots...the camera angle about Dylan(prolly not how it’s spelt) Proudmoore being the metaphorical giant..how Jaina’s still living the horrors of her past with every day of her life..how the “sweet daughter of the seas” has layers.... I wish I had a teacher like you back in art school.To me,CCS was always a boring subject where people make up shit outta nothing ordinary..until I got to watch your talk about cinematics..and it had me thinking “O sheit he’s right” all the time!!
I think it's more important that the two characters we see as an upshot is her mother and father, because on a given level, we always see our parents as bigger than ourselves. She is looking almost equally to arthas, her childhood friend, but her mom and dad, she is helpless, pinned down at the bottom of the frame (the exact same clip of her, actually).
I'm surprised you didn't point out that the ghost directly behind and mostly obscured by Jaina is Uther the Lightbringer. That's why Uther's model was updated during the beta. He's in the cinematic behind Jaina, but we can't see him; you can only see his armor. They updated Uther's tomb as well. I don't think they're done with him. Arthas, Uther, and Taelia all showing up can't be a coincidence. Here's a free idea for an essay video: what will happen when the world learns the truth about the Lich King? How will Taelia react? How will the Horde react knowing that the Lich King is a former Alliance general? Death Knights are the only characters who know the Lich King is even still alive. The Lich King's secret -- the fact that he's alive and was formally known as Bolvar -- died with Tyrion Fordring. If anyone else in Azeroth knows the truth, they haven't shared it.
Within the context of the story, no one else knows Bolvar became the Lich King. Only Tirion Fordring and players who defeated Arthas know that. The leaders of the Azeroth don't know that unless Tirion told them. Bolvar's last words: "I must be forgotten, Tirion. If the world is to live free from the tyranny of fear, they must never know what was done here today. Tell the world that the Lich King is dead and that Bolvar Fordragon died with him."
Mages and the ebon blade know as well as the players technically. According to what i have read, sylvanas should have seen bolvar on the throne when she was left alone with Arthas' corpse to take her anger out on and later attempt suicide. It wouldnt stop her from using this information to rally the horde. Though if they wanted to be racist, they would have done so with Arthas since he was part of the former Alliance within the human factions.
@@DembaiVT Anduin looked at Bolvar as a rolemodel and father figure during Varian's absence. There would have been no reason for tirion to deny Anduin assurance that his hero died an honorable death. Plus since he was burned and killed at the broken shore, he wouldnt have had the time to relay the crucial info to Anduin after his coronation. Even if he survived, he may have held onto it a little longer or until the LK made a move because Anduin himself lost Varian.
Another excellent video guys! I've loved every second of my time in Kul'tiras and I've adored the story of redemption we've seen for Jaina. She's definitely my favorite character in lore.
Flavia Pitariu Hmmm... I felt that shot was represented in the Horde Zanadalar introduction cinematic as well albeit reversed as Talanji summons Rezan to aid their escape.
Jaina did the wrong thing by not helping him. She might have been able to save him from Malganis's machinations, as well as help identify "clean" folks who were not infected. With her magic power, she might have been able to help. Even if the end result STILL happened with Arthas murdering sick folks, AT LEAST she would have been there to comfort him after the fact.
I like Jaina's story but the other characters are a bit weak Jaina's mom is just clueless and Ashvane is so obviously evil she makes Cruela de vile and Ursala seem subtle and nuanced
she seemed pretty evil even during the Jaina comic, they couldn't possibly reintroduce her now as someone just a little bit suspicious. And she is not a major character so giving her a lot of depth would be confusing for players who just fly throught the content with the autopilot addon (u have to remember that some players play WoW just because of PVP)
C00Cker so giving characters depth is dependent on whether people only play pvp or not? I only play PvP and I still expect a story that isn't obvious from the start.
Really? You liked Jaina being locked away the entire time and then is suddenly handed a locket she had the entire time and magically summons a whole damn fleet? And is named Admiral....? Why..? She didnt do anything for the kultirans to earn their respwct, WE did that, it would of been different if we were helping Jaina the entire time, and she was fighting alongside us..... but no she played princess peach.
Hahahaha, the story of our character's life. We get little to no recognition for the massive feats we've done for the whole planet, hell universe. Worse of all, our characters either are extremely gullible or doesn't care about right or wrong. Any npc can influence us to do their bidding, even if we know they are the bad guy. We freed Thrall from slavery. We helped open the dark portal for the first invasion. We helped Arthas become the Lich King. We have done terrible things as well as great things. We did feats that not even entire factions of armies could do, hundreds of times by now. Time and time again, a npc or group of npcs, step in and claim the huge feats us characters do. Honestly the people who should walk away from all this is us. Make them do the hard, tedious bullcrap that we had to deal with for last umpteen years. Why we aren't at least a king or queen by now, story wise, is beyond me. We have stopped a god of gods in a war of the gods, so this little faction war is so beneath us. So yes, it didn't shock me at all when Jaina, which was saved by us from a location that no other has ever ever returned from, was promoted for the feats we've done. The Kul Tirans should be forever grateful for us. If we didn't come they all would have died, the whole island is completely in shambles, the Naga, Pirates, the weird Quill people, witches, a totally not old god. Anyone else notice that the leaders never come to us for advice? When is it our time to sit around and fish or make people do our chores or feats while we step in and take credit. At least one good thing about WoD was that we finally got somewhat of a promotion and led for a while (sorta). Then we got forced into another promotion over our classes, only for that title to be removed and we get demoted back to "champion". You know, the title they give to gladiators and jousters, not savors of all existence. I bet i can predict the next expansion. We go to another island or planet and we again unite all the population together to fight something and the leaders take credit.
*spoilers for the horde story* I love the mirrored themes across the alliance and horde storylines. Alliance starts with dark themes and kultiras in turmoil, then ends with newfound hope and a literal dawn of brighter days to come, while the horde story starts off with the same (also literal) dawn of a hopeful future, but ends with the zandalari empire in turmoil and dark times to come
i love these breakdowns so much. seeing the cinematic was cool, but watching 18:16 with your words made me cry. It's amazing what spoken word can do emotionally.
I would genuinely be shocked if the thing with Calia and now Taelia didn't lead to the LK coming back in a big way, maybe as an undeath faction, or just as a neutral third party like the Kirin Tor. Tandred's entry had everything in it to be incredible, but I'd be lying if I said it ended in surrender wasn't disappointing. Ditto with Jaina's arc. Ultimately, I really liked both, but it wasn't what I was expecting /wanting when coming into the expansion. I came in riding on the hype train of 'Beware, beware of ME.' The forgiveness narrative isn't what I wanted to be honest. I want BAMF Jaina. We've kinda already had years of Victim Jaina. It would have probably been a little too OP if she'd made a wave/whirlpool that destroyed Ashvane's tiny fleet (woulda had me squealing though), or did some more amazing magic to help Tandred's fleet catch up, but alas, I was a little disappointed. Not a deal breaker though. There's a huge amount of the Not Old God expansion left with Jaina as the Grand Admiral with the Flying Arcane Cannonin Kul Tiran. I'll be patient.
See, I love this dichotomy that the Horde and Alliance has. In the initial start of the expansion, the cinematics are opposing forces. Alliance is a sense of dread; of a long shot chance at reconciliation. Whereas the Horde, as you rightly point out, is a bright new dawn for the Horde, and their future. But, when you get to the final cutscenes of the current story, you see the opposite. The Horde, and more specifically, the Zandalari, stagnated to such a point that one of the heaviest prices to be paid, is bargained, and then the harvest of said bargain leaves the Zandalari in a weaker state than they were to begin with. The Alliance, instead, has the fleet return, Jaina return, and probably more powerful than ever as her emotional stability has returned, and the Kul Tiran houses are united again (minus the Ashvane, but they don't count.) It is one of the most beautiful twists in WoW.
But if the power of the sea is with Jaina, AND WE DAMN WELL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, I have a funny feeling that the Alliance aren't in as good a place as the cinematic makes out.
Well, I think the issue is more, they will keep this swinging back and forth, but no, she is not old god corrupted. Would be worse writing than the Sylv burning tree debacle. Plus, she would have outright attempted to kill Sylv on that blimp... she has the longest range compared to all of the members on either ship, and who could really stop her? Alleria? The Void would be screaming for her to help Jaina (remember, the Void wants Sylvanus dead more than I bet Genn does.) We (Alliance) will have the harder of the two segregated story raids lore wise, cause though Gh'uun is a crafted Old God, he is nothing compared to N'Zoth (who was the weakest of the Old Gods,) and Azshara who actively terrified the Legion members who came into contact with her, to include Mannaroth who was one of the highest non-Eredar Legion generals.
Bolvar has reason to put an end to Sylvanas. Not having known his daughter, knowing the pain Sylvanas could cause her...If anyone is going to stop her it's going to be him, otherwise there was no reason to keep him. Sylvanas has always been playing with powers she didn't understand, using others to keep herself going. But Bolvar is the source of all that power.Not even the Death Knights can fully resist Bolvar, he could take them if he wanted as says as much to them multiple times.
The psychologic cinematic about Jaina shows how deep the Blizzard's team goes into character background. The big names of this universe are so well made that any bit of their story hits me in the guts. I had goosbumps and very much the rain the face when I saw it for the first time. Jaina, Arthas, Sylvanas. Those are my 3 favorites characters and its simply delightful to follow all of this. Thanks for the vids. I was shouting "YES ! YES my man you're so damn right dude !" while you were explaining how everyone in this life made little Jaina's life a fucking nightmare. I can't say that this corruption of hope, hope that Jaina is now for Kul Tiras, is to be put on the Old God thing because you know there is no Old God anywhere near (lul), but the move Katherine made on Jaina, to show her some love and have her know she trust her. That's what bring back the true Jaina. Her future husband (as far as the Arthas and Jaina story goes thats what they could have been) didn't trust her judgement call and left her side. And that's what really happened to everyone of these guys. They left her behind to do their own thing. Who could think about crushing the little Jaina's will to the point where she think it's her that left their side was a great idea to get rid of her ? hmmmmmm ... but surely it's not an Old God. Because you know. BFA isn't about Old Gods ... Much love and keep the good work guys !
Jaina is the most human character in WC Though I would disagree that all of those ghosts didnt listen to jaina: the little gnome girl, uther, and the citizens of dalaran that all died in the bombing did listen to her. The main thing that tortures Jaina is not that ppl didnt listen to her, but that she was naive enough to hope that things would work out instead of putting her words into action. Example: she ABANDONED arthas at stratholme, if she had even TRIED to help him or stay with him in his journey he could of been saved, with her Father if she had put her strength into action she could of challenged her father there but instead she let her pacifist nature get the better of her, with Varyan she actually stopped him from his chance at dismantling the horde when he could in UC, and with Theramore she placed too much TRUST in Thrall and the horde in that they would do the right thing and that led to her ppl dying. So no its not that ppl didnt listen to her its that she was too naive and didnt have the courage to make bold decisions that has haunted her. In honesty she hadnt suffered enough and hadnt realised that the world is cruel and that peace/love does not always win (one of the main reasons that Arthas was willing to go thru with the purge as he suffered with the death of invincible and his shaken faith in the light). One must make the hard choices and many times there is no one good answer that will spare everyone any pain. Also spoiler: its pretty obvious that the spirit dude affected Catherine with that attack in some way with her dialogue right after where she pauses after saying "Yes" when jaina asks if shes alright.
You got way better analysis my dude. I feel like Jaina is now written as a grown up, who now has to deal with consequences of her actions and key war decisions that impacted the fates and lives of her faction. I actually found it weird how much authority she held as a young mage chick. I dont even understand where Taliesin is getting this not listening thing..
Do the right thing? Like how she let Theramore be a staging ground for Alliance scouts and spies headed to Orgrimmar as well as basing Alliance troops there? Yes, Jaina had Theramore just sitting there, not taking sides, not letting the Alliance use it all... nope, no help to the Alliance. Garrosh's actions were extreme, but Jaina had already chosen a side and her people paid for it. She really should blame herself for what happened.
@@david6079 Don't pull out that "she used Theramore as a war base" excuse. The horde invaded Ashenvale unprovoked. The only way to push the horde out was to invade from the South (the barrens) to put pressure on both sides. Had Garrosh left the night elves alone, she would've never aided in the alliance attack on the barrens. Also, it was cowardly for the horde to wipe out her city using WOMD from a SAFE distance and then using her people as target practice in Orgrimmar. The only thing Jaina did wrong was not wiping out Orgrimmar with a wave
i think you forget that jaina also used the focusing iris. (main part of the manabomb) 1. she tried to flood ogrimmar but was held back by thrall and kalecgos 2. she than used it to destroy a horde fleet how was fighting with alliance reinforment for theramore (which was a bit late) and "Don't pull out that "she used Theramore as a war base" excuse. " Camp Taurajo in the barren was considert a war base ..... so ..... a habor city with stone walls with was used as a staging area vs a small camp with a few tens ... nah theramore was NOT a military target *hust she even used a neutral party (kirin'tor) to help out the alliance. Or did Rhonin had vacation from his dutys as archmage? "The only thing Jaina did wrong was not wiping out Orgrimmar with a wave" but how dare Sylvanas burn down that tree .... oh.... wait And some of jainas most controversial moments a NOT addressed ..... 1) using focusing iris (same thing as garosh in my opinion) 2) purging of daleran
@@Zeejir I was clearly joking at the end if you didn't realize. But besides that, Theramore and Camp Taurajo were completely different situations. The alliance were under false information that Camp Taurajo were going to launch an attack. They destroyed the camp but allowed civilians to escape. Theramore was attacked because Garrosh was a violent warmonger. He never spoke of Theramore breaking their neutrality but wanted human presence expelled so he could "chase the night elves to the eastern kingdoms and then take their forests for ourselves". Also, what was bad with the purge of Dalaran? Sunreavers used her city as a weapon to invade Alliance territory. They were caught, were asked to leave peacefully but refused. She killed the ones that rose their weapons and imprisoned those who surrendered which was reasonable. Sylvanas burning thousands to death to death vs Jaina drowning thousands to death. Obviously both are unreasonable and war crimes. But Jaina had every right to seek vengeance. Her people were turned to ash, her city was nuked. Despite that, she had her morales and realized what she did was hypocritical and WRONG. Sylvanus on the other hand? She led a brutal and unprovoked campaign on night elves and ended up burning thousands of civilians to death because a random nelf pushed her buttons.
Personally, I think Arthas is gonna have some sort of redemption. I mean, Uther's tomb was redone in Western Plaguelands, why do that if he wasn't going to be important? And who did he mentor? Arthas. I think Arthas' body will be brought to Uther's tomb (Because we don't know what happened to it could be anywhere) and Arthas' spirit will be brought back and cleansed, brought back to his former self, even if it's just in spirit form. Or maybe even (Before the Storm spoiler) Lightbound Undead like his sister was at the end of the book. If that's the case, I think he'll either: A; Teach Anduin in the ways of the LIght to make him more powerful and defeat Sylvanas who'll likely go Garrosh 2.0. B; Fight Sylvanas himself and destroy her. Either way, he'll have taken part in the death of Sylvanas for the second time, only this time, rather than being an embodiment of evil destroying a beacon of hope, he'll be a beacon of hope destroying an embodiment of evil. A truly poetic end for him, and a final insult to Sylvanas to wipe the smug look off her face. That's just a theory, though
I dunno about going that far, I think he'll just sort of pass on after that. I think he's just gonna come back to do this so he can properly redeem himself by destroying the monster he created. Then he'll pass on and join Uther as one with the Light. I think Calia will take over Lordaeron at that point.
Seriously, I really want Arthas back but then i also don't want the story to end up lame or bad xD So yeh whatever happens i guess :D the story in this expansion have been awesome so far, ( alliance side ) will do horde side later after i get my 2nd alt to 120 and get profession recipes at revered lol gotta rush for some gold making at raid launch :P
The Squirrel King Ah no. The constant references to Arthas refers to Anduin's true father. Sometime in the expansion he finally learns who his true father was and he freaks out. Watch. Enjoy the fireworks, this is going to be good!
I just finished this last night, and was blown away. The story team and cinematics team did an amazing job, and really helped in giving wow a real rpg feel. \m/
honestly the alliance side feels complete with some loose ends but horde feels nowhere near done when you finish the story, and it is all cause of bwonsamdi and ghuun
Doing that Krakem fight with ya was super fun xD(me be dat weird Shaman Ifritia :P) one of the most fun bosses in bfa, tho there are *a lot* fun bosses :D
Julian Smit But considering the tragic story that is House Wrynn and Menithil, she probably is murdered by the Horde before Anduin can woo her enough to become his wife and queen.
Speechless that anybody would give this a thumbs down. Such a beautiful breakdown of the events surrounding Jaina by someone who obviously loves the WoW universe very much. Always enjoy these.
Dude, I love the content here! I was super excited to see a new video, but even more psych'd when you supported a theory I've been going on about since Legion. I'm a DK main and buddy, there is most definitely a Lich thing going on xD Thanks for all the great content, you guys are great!
Oh my God. Thank you! I havent played it yet, but i couldnt refuse to watch you. Its so good and feels like the end of the game, which is weird, but also make you think that next part of the story must be even bigger and more involving. I love Jeina, i almost cryed
well since the pantheon is busy with sargeras... its the best time for the old gods to make their move to break free of their prisons.. its called Battle for Azeroth for a reason
Taliesin i need you to just narrate my life. I watch this on my own and loved it, but after watching it with you narrate what is going on made it 1000% better.
'Twas an honor watching the cinematic beside you (and receiving those heals that prolly saved my dwarven butt an unholy amount of times). Gotta agree that the storytelling is in a great place atm, and I'm glad I'm here for it! ... also, Jaina doesn't have to forgive the Horde already, it's fine if that takes a little while. >:)
That quest line was so fun and the ending cinematic was really well done. They have improved on their writing. I hope it continues around this quality from now on. The horde is good and has just as much potential for epic-ness to come.
I finished this quest line yesterday, beautiful cinematic, we haven't really had much time with Jaina from the other expansions, the amount of weight she has had to carry, through regret and the things shes had to endure... Moral of the cinematic, we all just need a hug to get us through the troubled time =)
I love when you talk about cinematics in your own way, and everything you say is like I said it myself.. And since there are NO OLD GODS HERE I hope we get a Lich King daddy Bolvar expansion next
"Holy shit - I'd like to thank the academy, and my agent, and my parents for all the support they've given me. I'm available for weddings and bar mitsvahs" Oh my god I'm dying.
Did anyone else get goosebumps when "Arthas, My Son" started playing?
always
And also when Tandred shows up and when "there you are"
I choked up lol
I don't usually turn on the waterworks for Blizzard's stuff but "Old Soldier" and this got to me, and both because I have such fond memories of Wrath of the Lich King.
Yes
As Taliesin mentioned, Tandred literally says this in game if you speak with him: "That bloke in the red shirt over there told me I wasn't canon. Well, obviously! I'm a mariner, not a cannon!"
Cracked me up.
Gotta love how it's a red shirt too. May not have been intentional, but it still fits. Red Shirt = Dead to us lol
No, it is intentional. But instead of Star Trek, it is reference to the Legndary Red Shirt Guy. ruclips.net/video/ytAqHdeamL4/видео.html
that sucks... now i want to lvl up an alliance alt... well, tbh I really want to create a Kultiran druid, so, I could start lvling now
UUUUUUGH WHY DID HE DESPAWN I CANT FIND HIM AT UNITY SQUARE I WANT TO HEAR THAT MYSELF XD
YOU WILL WANT TOO
Because you know
Fucking exalted rep requirement
Admiral Daelin Proudmoore's necklace: Your attacks and abilities have a chance to summon a fleet of Kul'tiran galleons.
Which kills everything in sight, or makes it surrender.
He just spawn a ship like kunka . He is literally admiral proudmore
*Meanwhile in Zandalar* : "Oh shiet we're fcked, everything is on fire."
*Meanwhile in Kul Tiras* : "Let it goooo, let it gooooo"
Honza K. XD
"All I ever wanted was to study" is the no1 most famous Jaina line... ;)
shhh, I'm trying to think here
So now when you talk to her, she doesn't say that anymore! She says "What do you ask the Daughter of the Sea?" eeeee
Personally, i don't give a fuck about Jaina and haven't for quite some time now. Sorry Taliesin, but I want this bitch killed already. And yeah, i see what Blizzard is trying to do but I'm not a 10year old, I've been playing this game since vanilla. A wise man once said... "times change".
In fact I don't even care if half their leaders die. I will be more than happy to help to that. :/
Actually I think the line "That's curious" is more famous... Because she says it in a 'curious way ... If you know what I mean ;)
only if Bitch Queen Sylvanas dies first. Jaina's made mistakes but she hasn't ordered the murder of a few thousand civilians out of petty spite because someone said her trigger word' hope'.
Katherine to Jaina: "It seems hope has returned... with you"
Delaryn to Sylvanas in the burning of Teldrassil: "You can kill us... but you can not kill hope"
Goddamn that's pottery
@@raikou20 i wonder how many pots we'll see with this story painted on them
Let me use very good quote Sunwalker said to Anduin that would fit so well now to tell to Catherine.
"I wonder, have you ever met our Warchief?"
For Sylvanas!!! Death to the living!!!
That elf had a name?
And sylvanas to delaryn: "cant I"
Needs more Bwonsamdi.
we all need more of that Loa of Sass- I mean DEATH!
Did the Alliance foothold quests in the horde zones, died a few times and was mocked ceaselessly by that clevermouth for it xD
yea me too, just try dying as a warlock... you'll get the burn of a lifetime xD
"NO, Bwonsamdick, my blink did indeed not save me that time"
Well let's be real, Arthas is *only* the one of the most important mortal lore character in all of Azeroth history, possibly after Gul'dan or Ner'zhul.
I think a link to the cinematics you discuss in your video in the description would be a convenient addition for your viewers.
I was just gonna say that. I have no idea where to find those :
Been thinking this since day one
They can be found on WoW channel now
“Posted 17 seconds ago”, that notification wasn’t fast enough.
There must always be... a Lichen King.
The Lichen King says: Fungmourne hungers!
I chuckled a good while when NPC Scan suddenly alert me about Lichen King nearby lol
You hold a grim truffle in your hands, brother, but it is not your own.
but the lich king must be arthas...
The name made me smile but the sword made me laugh out loud😂
Spoiler Warning for those that haven't seen the Horde cut scenes. Taliesin mentions the similarity of the Kul Tiran fleet with the sunrise behind them and the Zandalari fleet with the sunrise behind them. While true, what struck me more was the “opposite direction” the stories progressed through. The Horde story shows the fleet and hope at the beginning and then the fall from power and turning to death (Bwonsamdi) to reclaim an echo of that power and hope is lost with the broken seal. The Alliance story starts with, Jaina specifically, already out of power, not seeking to return to power then ultimately bringing hope to Kul Tiras with the return of the fleet. Where have we had a discussion about hope before?
I've been having a really rough week, dealing with heartache and endless frustrations... World of Warcraft and your videos are helping get through the darkest of times. Thank you, Taliesin & Evitel, for being who you are, and for what you do :-) You are both appreciated!
Grasshopper! You might have an enemy at work. Keep your ears open and when you find out who your enemy is, drag his sorry arse to civil court and sue him until he is either very very sorry or broke.
Remember the verse "because she left his side" during Daughter of the sea? All the people standing behind her in that cutscene - she "left their side"
-Arthas - obviously
-Her father - again pretty obvious
-Varian - if she would have been on the broken shore she could have saved him and she knows it. Plus that one time Varian was talking about peace between Alliance and Bloodelves meanwhile Jaina killed them in Dalaran
-Rhonin - now this isn't her fault but I bet you would hate yourself as well if a friend sacrified himself for you
-the little gnome girl - I forgott her name but jaina promised her parents she would watch over her in Theramore. She died in the blast.
i know it might be a bit hard to make out, but who was standing directly behind her? i could see a bit of the shoulder, but that's it.
Zanzen probably uther who stayed in lordaeron to save it from arthas
Probably Uther, although why they made only his shoulder visible is just strange, why make it a mystery? Oh wait, I just remembered, didn't Uther get a new model and a new shrine update....hmmmmmmm
She actually was at the broken shore... but she wasn't with him at the last fight for some reason...
@@checkmate1860 yes but she probably could have saved him as easily as she did with Anduin, Alleria and Genn in Lordaeron
Death Knight order hall campaign is all I'm saying when it comes to the Lich King references. Has to be leading into something.
this
Anyone notice the subtle nod to the Pirates of the Caribbean? Orders, Orders sir, ORDERS SIR
It's just good business
Oh thank god I thought I was the only one who thought that.
That was stupid in POTC though. He had a three decker 100+ gun ship of the line. The pirates had crappy single decker 20+ guns at the most. He should have completely toasted them. Think HMS Victory against a two single decker's, they wouldn't stand a chance. No idea why he didn't just fight them, he would have most likely won.
Are you saying something in POTC isn't entirely historically authentic?
hahahahaahhaahah
I don't cry. Like. Ever. But the first cinematic with Jaina and her mom had me crying the entire time. It made me realize how much I really enjoy Jaina as a lore character, and strengthened my love for the Alliance. Beautiful job on the cinematics.
Haha when I saw the Jaina cinematic I knew there’s gonna be a Taliesin talks episode 😄
well that jaina questline is the single best piece of purely character driven storytelling in all of wow, good thing it was jaina who got it :)
Anduin and Taelia will be "sharing stories about her father".
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )
It will be queen taelia to you peasant
I wish I could tell her a little story about her father, it involves a gate, dragons, and a magic helmet ;)
In one on the books that was Pre-Cataclysm, Its shown that Varian and Jaina both know what happened to Bolvar but decide to keep it hidden from Anduin
The Kirin Tor knows, the Ebon Blade knows, Sylvanas knows, Tirion KNEW, and quite possibly most of the faction leaders and their advisors know. Anduin should be aware, or maybe no one told him yet, since it wasn't revelant and they didn't want to derail him.
Lich King in the title, instant click. Oh.. and cause its Taliesin & Evitel!
I've been super critical of previous cinematics and plotting leading into this expansion, but this story arc is the reason why, and I have no shame in giving credit where credit's due. The whole Jaina arc throughout BFA is pure gold, and seeing this is what they're capable of is precisely why I get so outraged when they insult my intelligence elsewhere.
Jaina has been, is, and is now solidified in my mind as one of, if not the best and most compelling characters in their entire history. And while her turning up in a flying arcane ship randomly out the blue may have been a cool 'epic' moment, it doesn't hold a candle to the genuine character driven story and growth she was given here.
I don't think they needed to ret-con Boralus's state. Heck, the idea that she's standing up to protect the town despite it already being in ruin would have probably been even more powerful, sort of like her rising the ruins of her own life sort of thing. But that's quibbling at best.
In any case, had they never done the War of Thorns and Lordaeron scenes and only given us this, I'd be completely satisfied and entertained and would think my money's been well spent. So great job Blizzard and more of this personal character driven storytelling over the impersonal wide-scope political stuff in the future would be very much appreciated.
i dont think that was retconning. The battle may have taken place in the morning, followed by them clearing out the fire. That said i would have loved to see some hints of the damage tho.
...Uh a bit nitpicky here but in the Culling Jaina really didn't give any advice or well.. Anything to Arthas. She banged on about there has to be another way but gave quite literally nothing of substance. And then left Arthas to do the bloody work. Like.. Thats 100% on Uther/Jaina from the perspective of the narrative.
"Oh no, undead and disease. What can I, a paladin, whose 'faith' isn't so much 'faith' as empirical fact backed up by blazing beacons of light and the ability to resurrect the dead, do? Guess I'll have to kill a metric ton of innocents. It's the only way."
It was definitely not within Arthas' power to do anything like cure the plague or resurrect everyone who died. If he could Anduin wouldn't have been pushed back by the plague at the Undercity with how strong he is with the light. Also resurrection is not an easy thing to do even once within the WoW lore.
You are comparing paladin powers in game with paladin powers in lore and that is not the same thing. Also if arthas wouldn't cull the stratholme than mal'ganis quite literally would have an undead army against lordaeron which was weak after the war with orcs. So I agree with OP in this regard because jaina and uther did nothing and had no other plan how to deal with it.
@Akhilesh P nah. You misunderstood what he cutscenes showed.
Her father was wrong, but Jaina blamed herself for not trying to persuade him even more.
Arthas was actually right, one way or another, but Jaina was just too heartbroken to either stop him or support him. Hence her blaming herself really hard. Now she finally does forgive herself.
I don't remember what the Varian part was about, I have bad memory for non Arthas humans.
Nevertheless, she never puts blame on others except herself, and a bit in her father after her mother gave her the pep talk.
Either way, this is the way I think all of this should go.
Actually, while about the others you are right, with regards to Arthas I feel that Jaina's real regret was abandoning him. That "not offering any other options" was her real regret. She just walked away. She could have stayed, she could have looked for options, she could have even stood behind Arthas when, eventually, she noticed the futility of it all (as she did later on), and helped him keep his soul. She did nothing of the sort. She walked away. And that walking away is what she regrets the most.
Every moment I watch Jaina cinematics, I'm on the verge of tears. It's so beautiful...
Petition to Blizzard for Tandred to undo his shirt back or I'm unsubcribing forever
I love how quick and professional your videos are
OHHH IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR SOOOOOO LONG!!!! Love this storyline!
22:22
You see sunrises and new beginnings, all I can see is N'zoths giant eye watching over the battlefields as all goes according to his plan
*Is playing Starcraft II*
*Oh, what kind of madness is this? Surely Taliesin wouldn't just use LK as clickbait right...*
*Watches video instead of winning a game of starcraft only to find out LK was used as clickbait.*
I have no regrets.
Damnit people.... If more had jsut gone to the Warcraft movie. We could of gotten some big budget Arthas and Jaina story telling....
They should of just started with WC3 and told that story..
Sigh
I agree and do that orcs and humans in a different bit. The battles were supper awsome but the story telling was lacklyster.
It's not that they did the wrong story, they should have just told it better. Also made it fully animated.
A fully animated movie at blizzard's quality would have cost too much, like it'd be awesome but it's just not feasible. And the story was changed because a) it's a movie, so the regular game version wouldn't have worked too well and b) they probably wanted to cater to a wider audience - that said I agree it could have been better.
There's so much storyline, I kind of hold out hope for a TV series, but I doubt we'll ever get it. (I didn't think the movie was so bad either, but yknow each to their own)
The trailer for that movie (speaking as someone who had never played wow before when that movie came out) looked weird, full of bad CGI and a bit creepy with those orcs. I don't think it was catered for non WoW players well. I certainly had no desire to watch it back then in my pre-wow days
This doesn't matter, we all are Akunda.
As always Taliesin, an amazing analysis of the video. I like the way you analyse the story and I like the way Bay analyzes the technicalities of the video and the shooting and lighting and all. Keep up the good work guys. I also encourage everyone who can to support these guys on Patreon.
Anybody who played through legion's DK campaign already knows that Bolvar's been making moves and is pretty much in control of the Ebon Hold.
But he has good reason to be. Deathknights derive their power from him as much as Sylvanas does. Without him they'd all go mad and be mindless husks, his will is what allows them free will.
"The sunrise, a new dawn. All of these stories end with new beginnings, new hope".
MEANWHILE, IN THE HORDE ENDING, FULL OF HORDE FAVORITISM, DEATHGODS LAUGH.
Honestly think that the short pokes of anduin having to find a wife will most defintely have domething to do with Taelia. They both seem around the same age and with the suggestion that they are going to spend dome time sharing stories. Watch this space - WOTLK 2.0 incoming.
In Before the Storm Genn was constantly telling Anduin to find a wife and make some babies.
Yes! Exactly this, I was about to reply with just this. Taelia Wrynn confirmed imo!
Wait I didnt know there was a bit about Anduin finding a wife, i havnt read the book yet but I did just leave a comment saying I don't play alliance but from that short bit at the end im sayin Bolvar's daughter is the future queen of Stormwind.
I love that we hear "Invincible" playing when we see Arthas. Very nice touch.
My god I love Jaina and what they did with her. The cinematics, the voice acting, the expressions. I stand in awe Blizzard! I also love your analysis once again Taliesin. As always very in depth and I love it!
I'm positively in love with that new HD Arthas model.
i love how in the heart of kul tiras cutscene they let the horns set in the moment the ships are revealed.
although ive wondered how jaina didnt just boom- omegafrostnova the attacking ships. going back to her roots or not, she is still probably the most powerful mortal mage alive right now. even just thinking about being outmatched by a few boats is kinda ridiculous to me
I seriously love and am amazed at these videos. Your passion and excitement for the lore of Warcraft is so prevalent that it even gets ME excited and passionate about the lore of Warcraft. Love the thorough storyline explanations and thought-provoking questions that come about (Lich King) about things that I didn't even catch or had even THOUGHT about, previously. Surprised Blizzard hasn't hired you on yet. A+ Taliesin! Keep up the great work and hope you meet you at BlizzCon!
12:57 you missed mentioning the gnome girl with pink hair I forgot what's her name she died too at the bombing of Theramore & was an apprentice of Jaina during the novel Tides of War, but otherwise great analysis as always! Keep up the great work Taliesin! Hope u're having a wonderful time in BfA!
Also Uther seems to be right behind her, you can see his shoulderpad.
Kinndy.
RatchildUK either Uther or Bolvar, they both weared that armor ar some point
I like these videos where Taliesin analyses cinematics, he really makes good points and seems to really hit the spot with the deeper meanings of them.
12:45 - I do believe that is Kinndy Sparkshine to the right of Rhonnin as well.
I was about to comment on this as well. She is just tucked away behind all these humans.
*sobs*
Amazing guys ! discovered your channel a few weeks back and I can't get bored with lore analysis, keep going ! and be sure I will be part of your patreons very soon
Taliesin you’re the art lecturer for context and contemporary studies I didn’t know I needed all my life!!!
I mean seriously..you pointed out how every dead character was introduced with their back shots...the camera angle about Dylan(prolly not how it’s spelt) Proudmoore being the metaphorical giant..how Jaina’s still living the horrors of her past with every day of her life..how the “sweet daughter of the seas” has layers....
I wish I had a teacher like you back in art school.To me,CCS was always a boring subject where people make up shit outta nothing ordinary..until I got to watch your talk about cinematics..and it had me thinking “O sheit he’s right” all the time!!
I think it's more important that the two characters we see as an upshot is her mother and father, because on a given level, we always see our parents as bigger than ourselves. She is looking almost equally to arthas, her childhood friend, but her mom and dad, she is helpless, pinned down at the bottom of the frame (the exact same clip of her, actually).
Your analysis videos are very insightful and elegantly put together. Thank you.
I'm surprised you didn't point out that the ghost directly behind and mostly obscured by Jaina is Uther the Lightbringer. That's why Uther's model was updated during the beta. He's in the cinematic behind Jaina, but we can't see him; you can only see his armor. They updated Uther's tomb as well. I don't think they're done with him. Arthas, Uther, and Taelia all showing up can't be a coincidence.
Here's a free idea for an essay video: what will happen when the world learns the truth about the Lich King? How will Taelia react? How will the Horde react knowing that the Lich King is a former Alliance general? Death Knights are the only characters who know the Lich King is even still alive. The Lich King's secret -- the fact that he's alive and was formally known as Bolvar -- died with Tyrion Fordring. If anyone else in Azeroth knows the truth, they haven't shared it.
Everyone knows that.
Within the context of the story, no one else knows Bolvar became the Lich King. Only Tirion Fordring and players who defeated Arthas know that. The leaders of the Azeroth don't know that unless Tirion told them.
Bolvar's last words: "I must be forgotten, Tirion. If the world is to live free from the tyranny of fear, they must never know what was done here today. Tell the world that the Lich King is dead and that Bolvar Fordragon died with him."
It's very likely Anduin knows because Fordring WOULD have told him, as it's super important that he would know.
Mages and the ebon blade know as well as the players technically. According to what i have read, sylvanas should have seen bolvar on the throne when she was left alone with Arthas' corpse to take her anger out on and later attempt suicide. It wouldnt stop her from using this information to rally the horde. Though if they wanted to be racist, they would have done so with Arthas since he was part of the former Alliance within the human factions.
@@DembaiVT Anduin looked at Bolvar as a rolemodel and father figure during Varian's absence. There would have been no reason for tirion to deny Anduin assurance that his hero died an honorable death. Plus since he was burned and killed at the broken shore, he wouldnt have had the time to relay the crucial info to Anduin after his coronation. Even if he survived, he may have held onto it a little longer or until the LK made a move because Anduin himself lost Varian.
Man, I love how you dissect these cinematics. I would miss so much if I just watched them on my own. Thumbs up.
Anyone else think Taliesin & Evitel would make a phenomenal Dr Who and Companion?
Another excellent video guys! I've loved every second of my time in Kul'tiras and I've adored the story of redemption we've seen for Jaina. She's definitely my favorite character in lore.
That lady ashmane moment is present I think in pirates of the Caribbean as the captain walks down the stairs as they get blown up.
Wow references ftw!
Flavia Pitariu Hmmm... I felt that shot was represented in the Horde Zanadalar introduction cinematic as well albeit reversed as Talanji summons Rezan to aid their escape.
Lord Cuttler Beckett wasn't the Captain. But he was as unsubtely evil as Ashmane.
It's Ashvane, you illiterate peasants.
Wow these cinematics are pretty amazing great story line, might have to actually level an alliance character now
I am a fan boy too. I am glad she got redemption. Good video bruh.
Omg! This is even better the cinematic itself! Thank you for the Great Job!!
Arthas did nothing wrong !!
Stratholme needed to be purged
And now we purge it constantly for loot
Jaina did the wrong thing by not helping him. She might have been able to save him from Malganis's machinations, as well as help identify "clean" folks who were not infected.
With her magic power, she might have been able to help. Even if the end result STILL happened with Arthas murdering sick folks, AT LEAST she would have been there to comfort him after the fact.
Mein lich king!
Rise Saphiron .
*Have you lost your mind Arthas?*
I have been saving this video until I finally finish the Kul Tiras storyline. That day has come and I am pumped to finally watch this!!!!
I like Jaina's story but the other characters are a bit weak Jaina's mom is just clueless and Ashvane is so obviously evil she makes Cruela de vile and Ursala seem subtle and nuanced
well you gotta remember blizz overall writing qualiity, keep your expectations low
she seemed pretty evil even during the Jaina comic, they couldn't possibly reintroduce her now as someone just a little bit suspicious. And she is not a major character so giving her a lot of depth would be confusing for players who just fly throught the content with the autopilot addon (u have to remember that some players play WoW just because of PVP)
C00Cker so giving characters depth is dependent on whether people only play pvp or not? I only play PvP and I still expect a story that isn't obvious from the start.
Really? You liked Jaina being locked away the entire time and then is suddenly handed a locket she had the entire time and magically summons a whole damn fleet? And is named Admiral....? Why..? She didnt do anything for the kultirans to earn their respwct, WE did that, it would of been different if we were helping Jaina the entire time, and she was fighting alongside us..... but no she played princess peach.
Hahahaha, the story of our character's life. We get little to no recognition for the massive feats we've done for the whole planet, hell universe. Worse of all, our characters either are extremely gullible or doesn't care about right or wrong. Any npc can influence us to do their bidding, even if we know they are the bad guy. We freed Thrall from slavery. We helped open the dark portal for the first invasion. We helped Arthas become the Lich King. We have done terrible things as well as great things. We did feats that not even entire factions of armies could do, hundreds of times by now. Time and time again, a npc or group of npcs, step in and claim the huge feats us characters do. Honestly the people who should walk away from all this is us. Make them do the hard, tedious bullcrap that we had to deal with for last umpteen years. Why we aren't at least a king or queen by now, story wise, is beyond me. We have stopped a god of gods in a war of the gods, so this little faction war is so beneath us. So yes, it didn't shock me at all when Jaina, which was saved by us from a location that no other has ever ever returned from, was promoted for the feats we've done. The Kul Tirans should be forever grateful for us. If we didn't come they all would have died, the whole island is completely in shambles, the Naga, Pirates, the weird Quill people, witches, a totally not old god. Anyone else notice that the leaders never come to us for advice? When is it our time to sit around and fish or make people do our chores or feats while we step in and take credit. At least one good thing about WoD was that we finally got somewhat of a promotion and led for a while (sorta). Then we got forced into another promotion over our classes, only for that title to be removed and we get demoted back to "champion". You know, the title they give to gladiators and jousters, not savors of all existence. I bet i can predict the next expansion. We go to another island or planet and we again unite all the population together to fight something and the leaders take credit.
GOodness, you're so observant. You make me see things I don't notice. I was just too busy admiring how good Jaina proudmoore looks.
*spoilers for the horde story*
I love the mirrored themes across the alliance and horde storylines. Alliance starts with dark themes and kultiras in turmoil, then ends with newfound hope and a literal dawn of brighter days to come, while the horde story starts off with the same (also literal) dawn of a hopeful future, but ends with the zandalari empire in turmoil and dark times to come
i love these breakdowns so much. seeing the cinematic was cool, but watching 18:16 with your words made me cry. It's amazing what spoken word can do emotionally.
I would genuinely be shocked if the thing with Calia and now Taelia didn't lead to the LK coming back in a big way, maybe as an undeath faction, or just as a neutral third party like the Kirin Tor.
Tandred's entry had everything in it to be incredible, but I'd be lying if I said it ended in surrender wasn't disappointing. Ditto with Jaina's arc. Ultimately, I really liked both, but it wasn't what I was expecting /wanting when coming into the expansion.
I came in riding on the hype train of 'Beware, beware of ME.'
The forgiveness narrative isn't what I wanted to be honest. I want BAMF Jaina. We've kinda already had years of Victim Jaina. It would have probably been a little too OP if she'd made a wave/whirlpool that destroyed Ashvane's tiny fleet (woulda had me squealing though), or did some more amazing magic to help Tandred's fleet catch up, but alas, I was a little disappointed.
Not a deal breaker though. There's a huge amount of the Not Old God expansion left with Jaina as the Grand Admiral with the Flying Arcane Cannonin Kul Tiran.
I'll be patient.
All my wish go to an scourge faction. Really, i have been waiting for years and it seems real now
D'ya figure maybe Sylvanas is being manipulated by Bolvar?
Erik Bergström Yes i do. And also i think bolvar, sylvanas and bownswandi are deply connected, and will end in northrend
To be honest i see a new queen in SW as in Taelia. That is the only way to bring the LK storyline to an end.
The cinematic made my tears fall a bit, made my heart hurt a bit. I love it.
What power Bellular has, he's already downvoted this video twice!!! What gall!! lol ;)
DomeCitySandman do they not like one another or was that a joke? Sorry, I’ve been out of the game 😕
wait what?
DomeCitySandman lol sorry, I didn’t even pay attention to the “lol ;)”. But I do wonder if they’re friends
yeah they are friends
Taliesin and Evitel take the piss out of him all the time (well occasionally) and he's just sorta okay with it because he knows he kicks ass xD
"some guy in a red shirt over there told me I'm not cannon" I LOVE the reference to Ian.. well done Blizz :D
See, I love this dichotomy that the Horde and Alliance has. In the initial start of the expansion, the cinematics are opposing forces. Alliance is a sense of dread; of a long shot chance at reconciliation. Whereas the Horde, as you rightly point out, is a bright new dawn for the Horde, and their future. But, when you get to the final cutscenes of the current story, you see the opposite. The Horde, and more specifically, the Zandalari, stagnated to such a point that one of the heaviest prices to be paid, is bargained, and then the harvest of said bargain leaves the Zandalari in a weaker state than they were to begin with. The Alliance, instead, has the fleet return, Jaina return, and probably more powerful than ever as her emotional stability has returned, and the Kul Tiran houses are united again (minus the Ashvane, but they don't count.) It is one of the most beautiful twists in WoW.
But if the power of the sea is with Jaina, AND WE DAMN WELL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, I have a funny feeling that the Alliance aren't in as good a place as the cinematic makes out.
Well, I think the issue is more, they will keep this swinging back and forth, but no, she is not old god corrupted. Would be worse writing than the Sylv burning tree debacle. Plus, she would have outright attempted to kill Sylv on that blimp... she has the longest range compared to all of the members on either ship, and who could really stop her? Alleria? The Void would be screaming for her to help Jaina (remember, the Void wants Sylvanus dead more than I bet Genn does.) We (Alliance) will have the harder of the two segregated story raids lore wise, cause though Gh'uun is a crafted Old God, he is nothing compared to N'Zoth (who was the weakest of the Old Gods,) and Azshara who actively terrified the Legion members who came into contact with her, to include Mannaroth who was one of the highest non-Eredar Legion generals.
Great video Taliesin! Love the enthusiasm!
Arthas returns? Lich, please! :>
Kris Bendix arthas is dead but Bolivar might be returning
@@yourlocalmcdonaldsworker3595 Kel thuzad was fead
Dead
Bolvar has reason to put an end to Sylvanas. Not having known his daughter, knowing the pain Sylvanas could cause her...If anyone is going to stop her it's going to be him, otherwise there was no reason to keep him. Sylvanas has always been playing with powers she didn't understand, using others to keep herself going. But Bolvar is the source of all that power.Not even the Death Knights can fully resist Bolvar, he could take them if he wanted as says as much to them multiple times.
The psychologic cinematic about Jaina shows how deep the Blizzard's team goes into character background. The big names of this universe are so well made that any bit of their story hits me in the guts. I had goosbumps and very much the rain the face when I saw it for the first time. Jaina, Arthas, Sylvanas. Those are my 3 favorites characters and its simply delightful to follow all of this. Thanks for the vids. I was shouting "YES ! YES my man you're so damn right dude !" while you were explaining how everyone in this life made little Jaina's life a fucking nightmare. I can't say that this corruption of hope, hope that Jaina is now for Kul Tiras, is to be put on the Old God thing because you know there is no Old God anywhere near (lul), but the move Katherine made on Jaina, to show her some love and have her know she trust her. That's what bring back the true Jaina. Her future husband (as far as the Arthas and Jaina story goes thats what they could have been) didn't trust her judgement call and left her side. And that's what really happened to everyone of these guys. They left her behind to do their own thing. Who could think about crushing the little Jaina's will to the point where she think it's her that left their side was a great idea to get rid of her ? hmmmmmm ... but surely it's not an Old God. Because you know. BFA isn't about Old Gods ... Much love and keep the good work guys !
Jaina is the most human character in WC
Though I would disagree that all of those ghosts didnt listen to jaina: the little gnome girl, uther, and the citizens of dalaran that all died in the bombing did listen to her.
The main thing that tortures Jaina is not that ppl didnt listen to her, but that she was naive enough to hope that things would work out instead of putting her words into action. Example: she ABANDONED arthas at stratholme, if she had even TRIED to help him or stay with him in his journey he could of been saved, with her Father if she had put her strength into action she could of challenged her father there but instead she let her pacifist nature get the better of her, with Varyan she actually stopped him from his chance at dismantling the horde when he could in UC, and with Theramore she placed too much TRUST in Thrall and the horde in that they would do the right thing and that led to her ppl dying. So no its not that ppl didnt listen to her its that she was too naive and didnt have the courage to make bold decisions that has haunted her.
In honesty she hadnt suffered enough and hadnt realised that the world is cruel and that peace/love does not always win (one of the main reasons that Arthas was willing to go thru with the purge as he suffered with the death of invincible and his shaken faith in the light). One must make the hard choices and many times there is no one good answer that will spare everyone any pain.
Also spoiler:
its pretty obvious that the spirit dude affected Catherine with that attack in some way with her dialogue right after where she pauses after saying "Yes" when jaina asks if shes alright.
You got way better analysis my dude. I feel like Jaina is now written as a grown up, who now has to deal with consequences of her actions and key war decisions that impacted the fates and lives of her faction. I actually found it weird how much authority she held as a young mage chick. I dont even understand where Taliesin is getting this not listening thing..
Do the right thing? Like how she let Theramore be a staging ground for Alliance scouts and spies headed to Orgrimmar as well as basing Alliance troops there? Yes, Jaina had Theramore just sitting there, not taking sides, not letting the Alliance use it all... nope, no help to the Alliance.
Garrosh's actions were extreme, but Jaina had already chosen a side and her people paid for it. She really should blame herself for what happened.
@@david6079
Don't pull out that "she used Theramore as a war base" excuse.
The horde invaded Ashenvale unprovoked.
The only way to push the horde out was to invade from the South (the barrens) to put pressure on both sides. Had Garrosh left the night elves alone, she would've never aided in the alliance attack on the barrens.
Also, it was cowardly for the horde to wipe out her city using WOMD from a SAFE distance and then using her people as target practice in Orgrimmar.
The only thing Jaina did wrong was not wiping out Orgrimmar with a wave
i think you forget that jaina also used the focusing iris. (main part of the manabomb)
1. she tried to flood ogrimmar but was held back by thrall and kalecgos
2. she than used it to destroy a horde fleet how was fighting with alliance reinforment for theramore (which was a bit late)
and "Don't pull out that "she used Theramore as a war base" excuse. "
Camp Taurajo in the barren was considert a war base ..... so ..... a habor city with stone walls with was used as a staging area vs a small camp with a few tens ... nah theramore was NOT a military target *hust
she even used a neutral party (kirin'tor) to help out the alliance. Or did Rhonin had vacation from his dutys as archmage?
"The only thing Jaina did wrong was not wiping out Orgrimmar with a wave"
but how dare Sylvanas burn down that tree .... oh.... wait
And some of jainas most controversial moments a NOT addressed .....
1) using focusing iris (same thing as garosh in my opinion) 2) purging of daleran
@@Zeejir
I was clearly joking at the end if you didn't realize.
But besides that, Theramore and Camp Taurajo were completely different situations.
The alliance were under false information that Camp Taurajo were going to launch an attack. They destroyed the camp but allowed civilians to escape.
Theramore was attacked because Garrosh was a violent warmonger.
He never spoke of Theramore breaking their neutrality but wanted human presence expelled so he could "chase the night elves to the eastern kingdoms and then take their forests for ourselves".
Also, what was bad with the purge of Dalaran? Sunreavers used her city as a weapon to invade Alliance territory. They were caught, were asked to leave peacefully but refused. She killed the ones that rose their weapons and imprisoned those who surrendered which was reasonable.
Sylvanas burning thousands to death to death vs Jaina drowning thousands to death.
Obviously both are unreasonable and war crimes.
But Jaina had every right to seek vengeance. Her people were turned to ash, her city was nuked. Despite that, she had her morales and realized what she did was hypocritical and WRONG.
Sylvanus on the other hand? She led a brutal and unprovoked campaign on night elves and ended up burning thousands of civilians to death because a random nelf pushed her buttons.
Your essay videos are downright fabulous you handsome, clever man👍🏻
Personally, I think Arthas is gonna have some sort of redemption. I mean, Uther's tomb was redone in Western Plaguelands, why do that if he wasn't going to be important? And who did he mentor? Arthas. I think Arthas' body will be brought to Uther's tomb (Because we don't know what happened to it could be anywhere) and Arthas' spirit will be brought back and cleansed, brought back to his former self, even if it's just in spirit form. Or maybe even (Before the Storm spoiler) Lightbound Undead like his sister was at the end of the book. If that's the case, I think he'll either:
A; Teach Anduin in the ways of the LIght to make him more powerful and defeat Sylvanas who'll likely go Garrosh 2.0.
B; Fight Sylvanas himself and destroy her.
Either way, he'll have taken part in the death of Sylvanas for the second time, only this time, rather than being an embodiment of evil destroying a beacon of hope, he'll be a beacon of hope destroying an embodiment of evil. A truly poetic end for him, and a final insult to Sylvanas to wipe the smug look off her face.
That's just a theory, though
The Squirrel King I was like hmm Uthers tomb ! Some of the old boys are comng back !
I dunno about going that far, I think he'll just sort of pass on after that. I think he's just gonna come back to do this so he can properly redeem himself by destroying the monster he created. Then he'll pass on and join Uther as one with the Light. I think Calia will take over Lordaeron at that point.
Seriously, I really want Arthas back but then i also don't want the story to end up lame or bad xD
So yeh whatever happens i guess :D the story in this expansion have been awesome so far, ( alliance side ) will do horde side later after i get my 2nd alt to 120 and get profession recipes at revered lol gotta rush for some gold making at raid launch :P
The Squirrel King Ah no. The constant references to Arthas refers to Anduin's true father. Sometime in the expansion he finally learns who his true father was and he freaks out. Watch. Enjoy the fireworks, this is going to be good!
I love Arthas since warcraft 3 ! I hope ur right.He sould come back in some way shape or form 😃
I just finished this last night, and was blown away. The story team and cinematics team did an amazing job, and really helped in giving wow a real rpg feel. \m/
honestly the alliance side feels complete with some loose ends but horde feels nowhere near done when you finish the story, and it is all cause of bwonsamdi and ghuun
the horde side pretty much just sets up the first raid
Beautiful analysis there :) That forgiveness moment was truly touching
Doing that Krakem fight with ya was super fun xD(me be dat weird Shaman Ifritia :P) one of the most fun bosses in bfa, tho there are *a lot* fun bosses :D
Stop making me cry with your analysis videos Taliesin!
Taelia x Anduin confirmed. Our lad is finally getting a lass!!!
I like this thought!!
But what about poor Flynn? He'll be heartbroken (and not just because of the Siren this time).
@@craigkenny37 tricycle is always an option
Julian Smit But considering the tragic story that is House Wrynn and Menithil, she probably is murdered by the Horde before Anduin can woo her enough to become his wife and queen.
you're breakdowns are amazeballs
My butt is hurt because my pc crapped out before bfa and I haven't gotten to play yet... so... mmmnehhhhh
Happened to me when warlords came out
Dude Same...
Speechless that anybody would give this a thumbs down. Such a beautiful breakdown of the events surrounding Jaina by someone who obviously loves the WoW universe very much. Always enjoy these.
For Lordaeron
Dude, I love the content here! I was super excited to see a new video, but even more psych'd when you supported a theory I've been going on about since Legion. I'm a DK main and buddy, there is most definitely a Lich thing going on xD
Thanks for all the great content, you guys are great!
Anduin and Sylvanas hook up and have a litchking kid cleary that is what it all is leading up to
and they pit that kid against bolvarLK for control of the scourge since he's pretty much back to OG LK
100% agree... We all know Varyan wanted to bang Sylvanas... So it's only fitting
You are very inciteful in your analysis of the game. Brilliant keep it up; and thank you.
ACCEPT THE WHOLE THING IS TIED TO A MYTHIC FREAKIGN DUNGEON! GG BLizz
Except* Also, what is the problem here? Mythics aren't THAT hard if you have a semi competent group.
^ I don't. I'm a horde player and people who are willing to do mythics aren't willing to do them with someone who is just there for the storyline.
I loved this story, it truly was brilliant and incredibly well done! Very excited to see where Jaina' character goes next!
What are the chances on Taelia and Anduin becoming a couple?
Blizzard doesn't have the balls to green-light a gay couple
Pardon? We mistaking Taelia for a man or Anduin for a girl? xP
I think Anduin might be gay. If you read Before the Storm, you can tell he is not interested at all in finding a girl
He has bigger concerns than women lol
This isn't a god damn soap opera, the least important thing in this game is whether Anduin gets his end away or not.
Oh my God. Thank you! I havent played it yet, but i couldnt refuse to watch you. Its so good and feels like the end of the game, which is weird, but also make you think that next part of the story must be even bigger and more involving. I love Jeina, i almost cryed
Arthas is real father of Anduin! Ill be back in a month or so to write "I told you so" in here.
so its been a month where is this I told u so? and plz im interested in knowing if he really is (sarcasm aside i really wanna know)
I am here, still waiting for confirmation and I still believe in my statement above. Postponing confirmation for another month :D
"Varian Baratheon, black of hair. Anduin Baratheon, gold of hair..."
Great job. I just finished it up so I could watch with no spoilers and I'm so glad I did.
Also, the Horde zones are all about stopping an "old god" from awakening. This expansion is filled with old god crap
exbaddeathgod shhhh there are no old gods man only faction warfare definatly no old gods at all
well since the pantheon is busy with sargeras... its the best time for the old gods to make their move to break free of their prisons.. its called Battle for Azeroth for a reason
TheDKofWoW dude 5her are NO old gods definatly none to be found
*hides an old god under a rug*
nah, no old gods in BFA
Taliesin i need you to just narrate my life. I watch this on my own and loved it, but after watching it with you narrate what is going on made it 1000% better.
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee
'Twas an honor watching the cinematic beside you (and receiving those heals that prolly saved my dwarven butt an unholy amount of times). Gotta agree that the storytelling is in a great place atm, and I'm glad I'm here for it!
... also, Jaina doesn't have to forgive the Horde already, it's fine if that takes a little while. >:)
I'm loving your analysis of the increasingly more sophisticated Blizzard story telling
That quest line was so fun and the ending cinematic was really well done.
They have improved on their writing. I hope it continues around this quality from now on. The horde is good and has just as much potential for epic-ness to come.
I finished this quest line yesterday, beautiful cinematic, we haven't really had much time with Jaina from the other expansions, the amount of weight she has had to carry, through regret and the things shes had to endure... Moral of the cinematic, we all just need a hug to get us through the troubled time =)
Another excellent analysis video! Well done, sir!
Duuude, these videos are the best. Keep up the great work!
I love when you talk about cinematics in your own way, and everything you say is like I said it myself.. And since there are NO OLD GODS HERE I hope we get a Lich King daddy Bolvar expansion next
mate, they were just waiting for you to upload a video to release the next warbringers ! ;)
"Holy shit - I'd like to thank the academy, and my agent, and my parents for all the support they've given me. I'm available for weddings and bar mitsvahs" Oh my god I'm dying.