I think a lot of what gets overlooked in the 'is she pure evil' debate is that there are in a way two Sylvanases. There's the original one, who was vain and arrogant but also basically a good person, who sacrificed herself fighting to the end in order to buy her homeland and people a little more time. And then there's the new one, whose mind has been twisted by the effects of undeath reinforced by a fair amount of trauma. If you pay careful attention, you will notice that the times Sylvanas seems most 'human' are when the things that really defined her in life come up... her sisters, Silvermoon, and issues of responsibility, duty, and sacrifice. It never lasts and it often turns twisted, but for a few moments you can see the old Sylvanas pushing to the front... a situation that is probably painful and distressing to the Banshee Queen. But Sylvanas makes a lot more sense as a character if you view her as a constant battle between these two, a battle the original Sylvanas always winds up losing in the end just as she failed to stop Arthas.
Story wise this is becoming very exciting. If you think back to when Sylvanas became Warchief, Vol'Jin said the spirits commanded it. Now the void marks her, fanatically, as the True Enemy. I can't wait to see how this is connected together
Sylvannus might be just plain evil, but I'm not buying it. Perhaps she used 'two truths and a lie' to decide whether to kill and raise them or not. As far as Sylvannus is concerned she held all the cards in that reunion, so if she truly wanted to kill them she could have. It doesn't make much sense to delay them "serving death" when she had her hand on the trigger the whole reunion. Perhaps she is trying to convince herself that she isn't a squishy emotional mortal that misses her sisters or perhaps she is just trying to play the part in front of her dark rangers. Either way I am going to guess that this meeting meant a lot to her. Lastly, it is important to remember the implications of her position. If she wants to help and embrace her family, then this will come at the cost of thousands of lives and most likely impede or out right lose her war, which I can't imagine will end with Sylvannus not executed or imprisoned. At this point Sylvannus has only poor options to choose from. P.S. I see a few people around using the void ramblings in Alleria's head as an indicator or Sylvannus being the big baddy, but I can't remember the last time I trusted the void to be kind, honest, and helpful of its own accord. There is always an ulterior motive behind the void, do not forget that. A clean and well presented piece as always Bell, great job!
Everyone seem to forget the Void is the cause of every problems in Azeroth history. Let alone Light if they dominate Azeroth, which shown in alternate timeline. As what describe in the comic, it seem void was afraid the existence of her, meaning what she did all the way now is for the sake of the good, afterall the end justified all. As for Shadowland, I don't think Jailer was evil as Void already invade Shadowland.
FortisConscius she meant that she hoped their wedding day will be in the same day so they also be together there to! And also all three of them (yes even Sylvanas) ended with humans. Cuz don’t tell me there wasn’t anything between Nathanos and Sylvanas.
Adri Adrian Oh there is definitely something, I guess the windrunner family had a weird mutation in their parents genes that made their offspring have human fetishes.
But Bellular , the old gods and the void lords are very much connected. Alleria is the one being Old Gods related. This shows how important role Sylvannas is going to have after BfA expansion because it seemed obvious here that the Void is afraid of Sylvannas.
Doesn't matter, still same implications apply on my point. Shows that the void is threating Sylvannas as a huge threat and implies to some point the role that Sylvannas will have in the expansion after BfA which is at this point sure to be Void Lords and Old Gods related.
He was saying that they could have been referring to the Old Gods in that they are Azeroth’s true enemy and killing one on their agents would serve the greater purpose of “good.” It would have been the void manipulating her by using her own concepts of the “true enemy” to get rid of something they fear.
They are actually very similar. If Sylvanas gets a redemption and then gets transformed into a Naaru, or absorbs its power it will be very similar lol. We have no Jim Raynor counterpart though.
Wendigo or y’know, less time consuming for those who are working on the actual game so they can actually make it good. The animators need to work on the actual game, so putting it on 2D artists is actually understandable
I read the end differently than you. She had every intent of killing them both when she said "We are done", and put up her hand to make ready to give the signal. Luckily Vereesa talked her down by saying that she was sorry, without really knowing what could have happend when she didn't. If you look at her eyes, they're angry and she's standing back preparing herself to kill them both, but as soon as Vereesa admits her mistake she changes completely. I really don't think the signal is her saying "My lie was that I will never betray you".
I think the "True Enemy" might refer to the Legion as from a void-lord point of view, they are the enemy. The ones who seek to undo their plans. Let us not forget that the plague of undeath was brought to Azeroth by the Legion and at one point the scourge was completely integrated into their ranks (the Lich King included). We have no reason to believe a being from outside the universe would care about the difference between Scourge and Forsaken. Another reason I think this is they can't possibly do the faction leader corrupted by the Old God's AGAIN, can they?
Melodic Meerkat the problem with this theory is that it requires the writing to not be hamfisted and clumsy, they need raid bosses and they're running out of saved up characters, time to kill another
It would be kinda weird for the void to tell its pawn/host to kill a servent of the old gods since the old gods themselves are fragments of void lords so Sylvanas may not be a agent of the old gods but it be cool for death to finally have a god like being associated with it like the other cosmic forces in the universe have and its telling Sylvanas.
I don't think the Legion is particularly related to this, but by reading your comment I realized that Sargeras' goal was to end all things before they got corrupted by the void. Maybe Sylvannas is a threat to the void because, just like the Legion, her objective is to end all life, turning everything into undead. Let's not forget that the ones who become Forsaken are the ones with a strong will to resist the master's call (Scourge), as it also shows in their passive abilities (Will of the Forsaken, Shadow Resist.). So having to deal with strong-willed undead instead of corruptable mortal creatures would be much worse for the Void, and that's why I think Sylvannas is their enemy.
rdogg114 What is more interesting is how the void talked about Sylvanas. When it talked about Turallyon, it just said kill him because he is a servant of the light, but it talked about Sylvanas even after she left and it told the truth (or at least a part of it): “you will watch as she claims them” which is a part of Sylvanas’s plan, taking everyone under her control.
That's exactly what I thought of, it only makes sense that Sylvanas would be maybe receiving slight hints from the Legion and to me it looks as she is now on her way to becoming another Lich King (queen)
Actually I think Sylvanas' back and forth makes a lot of sense, it is kind of a theme at this point. Remember when Garrosh asked what separated her from the lich king? Well the Lich King, Arthas at the time, cast out his humanity. Sylvanas hasn't. She struggles with it, going back and forth between a heartless Lich Queen and someone struggling to cling to their past. She still loves Nathanos in whatever way she is still able to love, and she still has attachment to her sisters. These lingering attachments are her redeeming qualities. The "human" part of her that still remains. Arthas cast his aside to fully become the Lich King, but after years Sylvanas is still struggling with hers back and forth.
Logan Marlow Explained perfectly and i actually believe this is what Blizzard is trying to do (though i do not like Slyvanas' current actions) Showing her struggling and bending her towards the dark side and something major will happen and make her embrace her humanity fully and become a proper leader
I think one problem with Sylvanas is that these themes and ideas don't really tie too much into her in-game actions, or at least not very clearly. Everything in game seems to be entirely motivated by self-preservation. Maybe if her obsession with getting Valkyr was to preserve not just her, but explicitly to also preserve her loved ones, and in turn their loved ones, it'd all seem a bit more complex. What if they had it so Sylvanas tried to tempt Vereesa into joining her side and offered to bring Rhonin back in exchange? Then when she refuses because it wouldn't seem right, Sylvanas could take it very personally, justifying that shit fit she had. Then again I'm not really sure how they'd work sisterly love and struggles with mortality into turning Teldrassil into a bloody good Guy Fawkes night.
Warning: Wall of text incoming but I think I make some valid points regarding Sylvanas so... I hope it'll be a pleasure to read! ^^ When I read the Three Sisters Comic... I did not get that vibe you were getting from Sylvanas at all. Full disclosure though, I have been a fan of Sylvanas' struggle to just survive ever since Warcraft III. But I don't see her as an evil character, not even with events such as her raising dead to be given the choice to join the Forsaken, die again or just live on their own life (Forsaken starting area) or with her actions in the opening scenario of BfA. This is my theory of why she's proud to be leading the Horde and the reason why she couldn't tell them what her lie was: Sylvanas had one goal when she was freed from Arthas, revenge. When she was put into a position of freedom however, she decided to build up an empire for herself before joining in the hunt for Arthas. However, several years passed before that hunt ever took place and the same kind of fire and fury she had in Warcraft III seemed to have died down. She had become focused on making sure that _the Forsaken as a faction remained strong_ and that's important... because after her ordeal with Wrath of the Lich King and her bringing the Val'kyr to ressurrect people for her, she seemed to have changed her mind. We all know at this point all she cared about was to stay alive but I don't think that's the correct way to portray it. Sylvanas' is not dumb, she's probably the smartest character in all of World of Warcraft due to her lack of emotion. The lack of emotion makes her unpassionate in everything she does and is as a direct result cold-hearted and exceptionally calculating. This means that in events such as Genn stealing the lantern from her she couldn't predict just to what extent he would go and be willing to suffer (taking one of her arrows to the chest just to steal it) and thus' made a tactical error. Now think about it like this... In this calculating manner that she has, wouldn't it make sense that she truely cares about the Horde to stay alive as a faction because it means she has the ENTIRE Horde at her back? Garrosh was slain by both factions because everyone hated and dispised him, but if Sylvanas' keeps up her appearance as a good leader for the Horde ... she'll have half of Azaroth at her back ... essentially forever. That'd be a pretty good insurance to staying alive. But how does this work with her sisters? Well, I think that here's where she couldn't tell them what she lied about... because she didn't tell 2 truths and 1 lie, she told them 3 truths but not by her own will. Remember... she's cold hearted and calculating with no emotions left... what if she has her sisters tell her that they still love her? That'd be a damn great deal of emotions right there. So she never lied... but she couldn't tell them the truth because she doesn't know it herself since those two are her only last pieces of emotions left in the world. That's what I got from it and why I fundamentally believe that she isn't evil.
ArgentumEmperio the problem with your well reasoned argument is that she doesn’t really have the entire Horde behind her. Saurfang is against her, there are times in the different scenarios where Bane questions her... they are setting it up for the undead to despise her and I think there are too many seeds of discontent. She would need to do something to prove herself and right now that doesn’t seem to be happening. I like your ideas on her emotions though and think that will play a big part moving forward.
I don't think she doesn't care about the Horde at all or that she cares, but only as a means to an end. Sylvanas was the ranger-general of Silvermoon for possibly hundreds of years. She was always depicted as being the serious of the Windrunner siblings, because, no matter the tragedy, she never backed down from her duties. And now, just like it was her duty as ranger-general to protect Quel'thalas, it is her duty as warchief to protect the Horde, and she will see it through, whether she likes it or not.
ok she *has* emotions even in undeath, she is passionate about her leadership and to achieve her goals. She's not a computer nor a mindless scourge. She's even fond of Nathanos eventhough she doesn't want to confess it.
The boy is an example of how the Alliance has always seen the Forsaken..Sylvanas gave everything to defeat Arthas and when she was raised as a forsaken they turned their backs on her..and the Horde welcomed all of them as we do. What do the Alliance expect? When ones usefulness is over in their eyes they discard them..no wonder she's the way she is
Her lie is that she is Proud to be Warchief. You can tell that everything she does, she does because she HAS to, and not because she Wants to. She cares VERY little for the other Horde races and wants to solely ensure the Forsaken's survival, no matter the odds. She DOES wish that she was alive at times, and she will never betray her sisters, in life OR in death. She wants them to be like Nethanos, forsaken, but mentally sound for the most part, albeit subconsciously under her control. She wants to be with her sisters' again, but she fears losing them and being alone again. And so, she wants them immortally undead and with her forever.
As I posted on T&E's video about this, I think the more likely explanation is that the Alliance v Horde War gets Arator killed. This will send Alleria into a downward spiral, driving a wedge between her and Turalyon. She will blame both sides for her son's death, she will be angry at the Horde simply because she harbors resentment towards Sylvanas (and for maybe even trying to raise Arator), and she'll come to see the Alliance as a symbol of the Light which she'll blame for her husband "leaving" her, as he won't be able to support or abide her increasingly desperate actions. This will set her up as the final raid boss. We'll defeat (or kill) her, which will set up the next (Void) expansion. The act of putting their sister down will drive Sylvanas and Vereesa to reconcile. Sylvanas will lay down the mantle of Warchief (likely not naming a successor), and they'll just strike out on their own.
I dont think that "I would never betray you" was the lie. I think the lie is that shes proud to be warchief due to her showing a complete lack of any attachment to the Horde itself, it's a tool to her. Sure she was planning to kill Vareesa and Aleria but I dont think that she views that as a betrayal, I think that Sylvanas thinks that turning them would be in all their best interests.
A con artist can be proud of a huge con of theirs. might be that kind of pride, you know. doesn't have to mean she's proud of being a warchief.. or by all means that she sees the title of warchief as say, an orc would.
I actually completely agree with this. Everything in Before the Storm points to her feeling very uninspired as Warchief. She didn't want the job, she doesn't even like it. She wants to be back underground where she's truly happy. She sees the Horde as something that has allowed her to exist, but they have never really accepted her. She might not feel that the Horde is a part of her, even if she might wish that it was. "Betrayal" to Sylvanas is more like what the Desolate Council was.
I think her missing being alive was the lie and I think that was going to be the signal to her rangers to strike. I could see it going down like this. "My lie is that I miss being alive. While that may have been true at one point, I have embraced the power and strength granted to me by undeath. So no, I don't miss being alive... and neither will you." (Dark rangers attack and kill the sisters.)
I think the signal was supposed to given near the Gate at the ending of the comics. Take note how the comic there focus on her hand and eyes expression. But Varissa apologise and admit her mistake which gives Sylvanas second thoughts.
I have to say, it's awesome that they make these comics available to the general public, for free- and give these writers and artists a chance to give their interpretation of potential huge lore moments, like these comics. It just makes me sad that it's something that isn't represented in the actual game, yet it's harkened back to casually as if the player was aware of it. As a person with all the Warcraft novels and comics, canon and non-canon alike, I would love to see more of the narrative in the medium of the source: the game. 😁
Interesting and kinda want to see where Blizz takes it as well. Also I'm sure you might've already know this but @ 6:55 you said Void instead of Blood.
My money is on Blizzard heading towards the old bait and switch. They make Sylvanas seem moustache twirlingly evil in their hamfisted way, make it seem like she is going to be the big bad or betrayer at the end of the expansion, but then it ends up being Alleria that is the baddie.
+Runicknight Undead is not dying. as such not entering the abyss or whatever else. and not being alive means more resistance to void influence or influences in general. while the theme is different.... let's say the light and the void need life in some form. light preserves life and is very controlling. void controls life in order to feed on it. Undead are... outside of that. so if you kill all life or otherwise make it resistant to the void and being fed to the void (as planned by sargeras, potentially sylvanas/whatever fate and cause she's involved in) let's assume heaven and hell/demonic enteties were real. humans never dying would be a pretttty big deal then yeah? A third option if you will.. or a third faction.
I agree! That's an important point: the Forsaken are the ones strong-willed enough to resist "the master's call" (scourge), so by ending all life to serve her, she is creating something the void can't corrupt. Also think about the forsaken racials: Will of the Forsaken and Shadow Resistance... that says something!
I think if you're speaking about classic examples of good vs evil, the Void naming Sylvanis as the true enemy follows the eastern philosophy of Yin and Yang or the Void and the Light being opposite sides of the same coin. All of the existence spends time in both the Light and the Void, together they are the balance of the universe. Living things are born, spend time in the light and return to the void via rot and decay. However, Sylvanis seeks to break this pattern. She is looking to live (be undead) forever. In creating more forsaken, she strips the power away from the Yin and Yang. She could replace both Void and Light with her Forsaken and in doing so, end the eternal cycle that balances the universe.
I like your general ideas of the Light and Void in this Bellular. The Void seeing all possibilities and believing all to be true since it doesn't have a clear perspective, while the Light sees one truth and follows and upholds it completely. This recent comic was eye-opening, and discouraging from my perspective. I'm honestly not on board with another Horde leader being deemed as evil and needing to be put down, a classic "been there, done that" idea to me. But seeing all three Windrunners together again, seeing parallels, their strifes and how they aren't so cohesive after the traumas they've experienced, and their truths and lies - all of it was awesome to read about. Especially the Void Whispers' urgency towards Sylvanas, that part was interesting to keep in mind. The Void always seemed so calm and absolute in-game. Even when killing Void servants, Old Gods, the ethernal -they don't sound displeased when they fail or get snuffed out. This is actually the most urgency I've seen in a Void entity toward a threat since, I don't think anything.
Thanks Bellular, if i hadn't seen this video i wouldn't have known this snippet of lore even existed. Feels like this continues the conversation the windrunner sisters were having during the Argus chapters, it intrigued me and I was looking forward to seeing what unfolded in game. Thanks Blizzard for including it in a bloody comic :)
A thing to think about, besides blizzard laying the foundation to WC4 is a possibility, is that We've never seen the Void fear anything, but the way they react to Death (sylvanas) is like it is their real nemesis, more than the light, more than the burning legion.
I really do enjoy your videos a lot. You're definitely one of my favorite RUclipsrs. You just always give so much content with the videos being super fun to watch with all the amazing editing. You definitely deserve a lot more viewers
Everyone keeps focusing on how Sylvanas saw that she could kill and raise civilizations the way she wanted to after touching the Azerite. They are entirely disregarding that Anduin saw the same thing. Yes, he did see how he could bring peace, unite societies etc... but at the end there he also saw how he could utterly destroy everything and how many people he could kill... just like Sylvanas. So in essence they both saw the same thing just from different perspectives. But with him being a follower of the light and a priest and all that "Good" and "holy" stuff.. him seeing that is a lot more interesting than Sylvanas seeing that.
I made this speculation over on Taliesin's video on this topic about the "true enemy" mentioned by Alleria's void presence. Since the Lich King was created by Kil'jaeden the true enemy that the void references may still be Sargeras and the void may believe that he will free himself from the Pantheon's imprisonment.
Obviously, Sylvanas wanted to kill them originally, but Vereesa's honesty touched her heart, showing she still loves them deeply. It is disturbing however that neither Vereesa nor the empowered Alleria could sense her approach or intention....
well if whoever you hire to do a job does not meet the standards than no, they should not get payed. sorrybut human proportions are one of the most basic skills of any comic book artist, you can't be one until you master them and in this comic the elven women look like physically stunnted goblins on several occasions
Darkness needs life to devour and the Light needs life to control and serve it the one thing that can stop either is death which is what Sylvanas represents. Death is freedom in this case. This is why Volj'jin picked Sylvanas since she is the one being that neither the void or light can devour or control. What we maybe possibly seeing is a future set up for war between the void, the light, and death.
Where do I sign up to be a dark ranger? I'm tired of all these whiny Alliances and Hordes with their morals and remorse and aversions to blight. For the Dark Lady!
Sylvanas could be proud to lead the horde but not enjoy leading the horde. It's an acknowledgement of all she has accomplished since since breaking away from Arthas.
"They just cannot help but make Sylvanas seem wholly evil" - In fairness that has been the running story with her since Vanilla, it's just in recent years they have backed off it a little because she became a fan favourite. Hell in the Vanilla manual the faction listings even explained that the Forsaken were only allied with the Horde out of convenience (as neither could stand alone against the alliance), they have no true loyalty to the Horde and that Sylvanas would kill alliance and Horde alike to ensure her "dark plans come to fruition".
I think we need to bear in mind that the Dark Rangers would all have known the Windrunner sister and may not have wanted to kill them either. They may not necessarily be upset with Sylvanas not pulling the trigger.
I'm grateful that Blizzard is finally giving humanization to void-based characters instead of just, "I'm insane! Kill me before I destroy things!" like they had with Cho'gall, the Old Gods, and the Titan Keepers of Ulduar and the Halls of Lightning. I also enjoy how the Light is a portrayal of order rather than good. Just because a society or organization is organized doesn't mean that it's good, and we knew that the Light works with evil because of Arthas and his culling of Stratholme. The Light and the Void are blurring the lines of good and evil now, and the Light and the Void are not inherently associated with one or the other. It adds realistic complexity to the world while also giving rpers like myself lore grounds to make more interesting and complex characters. Specific to the comic though, I like how it gives actual dialogue for the void whispers in Alleria's head. It gives grounds for what sort of dialogue another void-based character would have as well.
I agree, Light=order Void=chaos Either one can be -bad- But it doesn't mean they can't be used for good, after all players can use a Shadow Priest, Ethereals use the void, some dipped tp far and serve it while others like Lotus Walker can use it to his advantage. Paladins, priest, use the light for good, whereas Scarlet uses it for evil. I like that these two alignments aren't just bad and good.
The void is after the sunwell, we see this when Alleria comes close to the sunwell although we managed to contain it. Arthas was after the sunwell, every dark thing has been after the sunwell whether to seize it's power or to destroy it. The true enemy is the enemy of the sunwell. Sylvanas I believe will be redeemed as a result of saving it, possibly by killing off the void. Just my speculation on it. Maybe she has seen things that we players do not know about. Voljin said before he died that she must take up the position of Horde Warchief. That he has seen things, and she must do this. There has to be an even bigger reason than the Legion to do so. Sylvanas barely fought in Legion. Lore wise we did see her in Stormheim and in Helheim but only for her own gains. Sylvanas is the type of character that does not waste time and what serves her well is usually getting on with the job, no second guessing and acting on impulse.
Also remember that when the Valkeries left the Lich king and he realized he had no connection with them anymore and couldn't control them it was because he sensed that they had a new master. So this could mean one of two things...either through luck or fate Sylvanna's connection was severed from Arthas due to another type of "god like" char OR her hatred of Arthas for making her an undead and forcing her to consiously and unwillingly destroy her own king and kingdom grew to the point where she became a different type of master of the dead. But either way this is going to be fun!!
Since Arathor was supposed to be Allerias anchor, I have a feeling he is toast. And from seeing how evil Sylv has been lately, I bet she is going to raise him as undead :D
Personally I think blizzard just don't know how to tell a story anymore in the warcraft team. All those that did have moved on to other games or retired. Blizzard really needed metzen it seems.. Edit: Fixing spelling.
Wacka Doodle thats why Christie Golden was hired to write for the game. Thr novels she writes for the in between expansions are much more cohesive. Hopefully with her being there the game won't contradict the better writing and story flow in the novels. The thing is though having a good cohesive story in an mmo especially a very open ended one is difficult. Not every player will see the story things are missed or just not there to begin with. FF 14 probably has the best story in terms of general story telling but the game is super linear and many of the main quests end up being terrible and boring. Metzen wasnt that great either. He had a vision and good ideas bet didnt put them together very well. He created no real backstory for the 1st warcraft mostly just framing. It wasnt until wc2 that any real explanation to the game world came and most of that was told through licensed novels. Plus all the retcons and new novels that had to be made for warcraft up to lich king for it all to make any real sense. Blizzard as a whole are great at world building and setting all the pieces up but are bad story tellers. Even diablo suffered the same. Star craft i think was the only game that didnt require retcons through novels or future games
I heard of and what read some of her work and it is fantastic. She adds so much humanity to sylvannas and the others; I'm surprised she isn't writing for the game lore at this point. You are also right on metzen, he isn't perfect but what he improves definately gets more care than the lore now. Granted it's just 2 games in without him but they showed they can do a good story in legion; so why not BfA? They even show heartfelt moments but have to ruin it due to tropes! Can't we just have a moment to feel for a character? Like arthas and his grasp for humanity with his father. Thrall and his understanding of orcs or even the night elves and their understanding in trust for others. Something BfA retconned with the introduction of a new race and explaination why alliance didn't get them. It feels more like a company got in the way rather than telling a story. It would be nice that they give the good story tellers (Like Christie Golden) a bigger role in their games over telling ppl "this is the bad guy, these are good guys. Look how evil the bad guys are!"
I really hope she wasn't the one that wrote "sylvannas killed her people to raise them as undead" then, because it contradicts wotlk where she was opposed to using the plague at the wrath gate; one of her undead didn't like how she ran things and took his own stand against her, using the plague on alliance and horde to rid the lich king AND claiming to do it for sylvannas so the blame would go to her. She and thrall even had to go with the champion (player) into undercity and reclaim it back from them. Sylvannas even said she wanted to use the plague on the lich king, but not at that time "it wasn't ready" and especially not on the alliance, as they are both fighting for the same cause. Then BfA comes in and throws it out the window, now she will use the plague; she doen't care for life and the people that turned on her were banished for doing what she did now. Remember this wrath gate was before she killed herself; she valued life back then.
Wacka Doodle the thing with the plague in tirisfal. Its her home she is defending it for her and her people like a last ditch effort to save what/who she can. Its not explained well in game currently as i hear. But maybe it intentional? To have players contemplate the goals of characters and narrative direction. The comic shows sylvannas has some kind of grand plan. The shadows want her dead also. As the expansion plays out im sure it will all make sense, especially if Golden has a large role in it. Not sure if its still up but the new novel previews have a large excerpt that details the respective factions attacks. Which makes sylvannas not look wholy evil like the game suggests. Sucks that this is left to outside material like novels which not everyone is down to read. Some cinimatics or animated comics would be cool like WoD had but they can be expensive to produce and possibly move artists away from the game
Seriously I think the reason the Void wants Sylvanas dead is because the only people who can stop them will most likely be her AND Anduin. I say that only because of a comment made a long time ago during legion. I used to think like everyone else and that it was Aleria's son but I'm not so sure anymore after thinking about it some more. I think one person could never handle both the light and dark energies together but an undead can wield light magics so it's not impossible for both sides to come together magically. I know what I mean but I'm not sure how to explain it properly.
I made a void elf shadow priest but I only hear whispers from my weapon, shouldn't I get some void whispers as well? Better yet they don't even add text, it's legit just audio whispers. Guess it would be too in depth.
I was discussing this with my son. We both have void elves and nada on the whispers. Shouldn't we hear whispers? This was one of the things Alleria was helping us to control and to be strong against.
It's quite obvious when I went and actually read the comic, the game wasn't the signal. At the end Sylvanas is holding her fist up to her chest, about to give the signal. The moment Vereesa says she was a coward, Sylvanas's eye fly open wide and after she lowers her hand without giving the signal.
Sylvannas didnt chose to become undead, Alleria chose the void. Sylvannas helped the undead when everybody saw them as outcasts now she will do everything for her people to survive. I think sylvannas is awesome.
What I figure the void was talking about is the fact that Sylvanas serves the efforts to protect Azeroth. The Void is also on the same side as the Old Gods which means Sylvanas is opposite that. If anything, Sylvanas is a threat because her and the undead are deaf to the whispers of the void and the old gods. That means as long as she can move without their influence, she’s a threat. She can keep raising undead over and over and over giving her an endless enemy. Also, the horde and alliance took down the Legion which was also opposite of the Void and Old Gods. Essentially they’re stronger and the void fears the players of Azeroth.
Quoting myself from T&E's vid on this topic: *Light and Shadow are opposite forces,* like order and chaos, basically. Light shapes life -or binds it, according to Eonar's epithet-; it orders Life. On the other hand, Shadow feeds on Life, wreaks havoc on it. *And endless struggle as long as there's Life* to shape, bind, control, order, wreck, consume, feed upon or corrupt. They both need Life to... well... to live. Death is the one true enemy of Life. *In the realms of Death, there's* neither Light nor Shadow, just because there's also *no Life.* ...and what's even more frightening, *in Undeath there's not even Death.* Undeath is empty, and it's the actual end of all things. It's the one place where even Death dies; the one true enemy of absolutely everything.
"The TRUE Enemy" is what spawned on Azeroth, it´s mortal races... In the end, Azeroth (+Draenor) Mortals are responsible for every major event in WoW. We blocked 2 Old Gods before they could be a real threat, we dismantled the Buning Legion and imprisioned a Titan (with a little help)... To the Void Lords, Sylvanas is one of the (if not the) best Azerothian leaders... Others are just too focused on the Light or other forces to be counted as a threat... But Sylvanas is focused on the Forsaken and the Horde, on the schemes and maquinations of mortals, exactly what has been thwarting any move from other forces.... Or not...
BioMatic2 I hate sylvannas because she is selfish, warmongering and want her precious forsaken, not to be happy, but to blindly follow her. Don’t necessarily trust the void. Not at all really. But one being bad doesn’t make the other good.
I’m Horde and....Although I don’t agree with everything our Queen does, I can sympathize with her. Sylvanas was once a strong woman with a good heart and it was all taken away from her. She’s suffering, and has been suffering for so long. It’s as if she’s in a constant state of regret. I can’t imagine being lost in both light and darkness like that.
If sylvanas ever gets cast out of the horde, i hope a third faction will arise out of it. I have always been rooting for the forsaken... i hope that choice does not get taken away at any point.
To Sylvanas death is not a bad thing. I see how people consider her point of view "evil," but to her it's just a way to draw here family closer to her so she can protect them.
Curious if the killed and resurrected Alleria, would Alleria still have control over the void as an undead? (kinda like shadow priests do) Or will the void abandon her? Sylvannas missed the change to screw the alliance hard, but can't really blame here for getting emotional.
Starting to think Sylvanas is the new Illidan in WoW. Seen as evil but everything she does has a higher more noble purpose. The Void being scared of her makes me think she knows more than she lets on and might have a clue how to defeat the void and the old gods. Hence the Void warning Alleria. She also has an Arthas aura around her, doing anything to make her plan work, even if it's against her sisters. Maybe she will betray them not because she is evil but because she wants to save them in her own unknown idea of saving Azeroth. Maybe the Forsaken have a key role in defeating the Void. Just an opinion.
Since you mentioned the 'infinite abyss that awaits her in death' that she saw after being impaled on *Saronite* (!!!) here's some more food for thought: What Sylvanas said: ' *They will serve death* . They will serve... me.' What someone else said: ' *Bow down before the God of Death* !' What was said about Sylvanas: 'She seeks the *death of all things* ...' What someone else said: ' *The end of days is finally upon you and ALL* who inhabit this miserable little seedling.' What Sylvanas said: 'I can't allow that sentiment, that *hope* to grow. It is an infection, ready to spread. *I have to cut it out* .' What the official title of someone else is: ' *Hope's End* ' Coincidence? I think not! *conspiracy theory intensifies* :D Also, someone else said: ' *Your petty quarrels* only make me stronger!' ... Who starts conflicts for no good reason in BfA?...
I get that, but the void isn't a single entity, it is a primal force of creation, and recent trends in Blizz's storytelling indicate that the void isnt't all evil and the light isn't all good. So Alleria's void could just be a force, and not share allegiance and schemes with every Old God and Void God out there, the same way the light isn't the Naaru themselves and they don't share the same plans. It could also be that seeing the Saronite vision drew Sylly mad (Mad King 'burn them all' style) and she wants to kill them all before they can be turned, which ofc the void doesn't want. Either way, she's bad news, and only started her paranoid quest of undead turning, Helya deals, enslaving valkyr, war, murder etc. after she saw a vision from the Blood of Yogg-Saron.
So, The Legion was wiping the slate clean to stop the void, and the legion are the ones who set arthus's tragic story in motion...did I get that right? so if the undead are the result of legion actions then would it not make sense for the void to be calling her a true enemy? the legion were the ones trying to wipe out all possibilities.
You know people don't think about the game from a strategic standpoint she burn Tedrasill down because that was the only major Alliance base besides the exodar on her side of the world and by plagueing her own City when she exited the battle for lordearon she deprived the alliance of a new base and effectively left all of her enemies on the opposing continent so she's effectively split the world into.
They just need to make a third faction, one they can choose to be evil, the horde can continue to just be the sloppy disorganized not necessarily benevolent horde, and alliance can continue to be the group who blindly follows their objectives in the name of subjective non-benevolent good
I feel like they wanted the Horde to be outright villains but then someone reminded them warcraft 3 existed so they try to do this moral grey thing really badly.
The Warsong/Grom were pretty villainous with the whole bloodrage thing going on but Thrall was pretty heroic from start to finish worst thing he did was having to fight the alliance because Grom rejected his orders to leave the alliance alone.
laertes104 I call it sloppy because of course what Sylvanas and Hellscream have done it villainous, meanwhile the Goblins screw over everyone, but on the flip side you have Tauren trying to heal everything.
laertes104 calling thrall Stalin isn't only laughable but hilariously downplaying the fact that anyone who stands in a system of evil without fighting against it is standing for evil.
If the Horde is unethical, what makes that the alliance? The Alliance is a direct reflection of the Christianity-controlled parts of the world, which grew in size by effectively trying (and most times succeeding in) removing diversity of culture from their targets. If refusing to let people live their lives and culture the way they themselves want is not unethical and immoral...
I'm interested to see how Anduin's story will turn out. With all this new lore about The Light and how extreme it appears to be, I wonder how it will affect Anduin since he seems to be embracing the light on a deeper level, as the cinematic shows.
On the one hand I think it's unimaginably cruel that Sylvanas would do that to her own sisters but also in her own way it's how she feels she can reunite her family.
My guess is that the Light, compared to the other magics, is more submissive in relation to its wielder, and as such, the wielder has a much bigger effect on how the light works. So with the Dranei of alternate Draenor, they have developed it into a religion which in turn has turned into a form of the inquisition, thereby turning the light, or specifically the light they use into this manipulative and all too forceful thing, using it to force captured orcs to become light-forged. An easier way to think of this is that, The light does not force you to do anything but will let you do anything with it (Within reason) whereas Void, Fel, and even Arcane to an extent all force their user to do or become things while letting the user channel their power.
I think in her mind, she doesn’t think killing them would be betraying them, that it would be “freeing” them. Misery loves company, but it never wants to admit to its existence. You see it a lot with guys under heaven PSTD; they absolutely refuse to leave hell. The lie is that she misses life (whether that’s true, or not, who knows) .
Off topic but with all these conflicts will there be a time when races choose sides or the individual player themselves will choose which faction they want to align to. This might open into alot of possibilities and perhaps making questing alot more interactable as you pick quests it will lean to which side you are going to be. It will also be fun in PVP seeing all that chaos all over the place but that is just me.
I do really think you misread that end. She was going to signal with her hand at the end, that is why it kept focusing on it. She only changed her mind with the apology. If I had to wager, that was the lie, the part with her sisters, but in that moment all three became truth.
For 5 fundamental forces, except LIFE, which is the only genuinely benevolent force (until now), all the other forces have very powerful cosmic entities except DEATH. Now Lich King was the strongest necromancer but his power is nothing compared to Sargeras (DISORDER), the Pantheon (ORDER), the Light (LIGHT), or the Void Lords (SHADOW). This seems to point that DEATH will indeed be one of the next villains where powerful cosmic entity is revealed to be in play, defeated, only strengthens Void Lords grip on the world, building up for the epic Void Lord expansion, then finally Light one.
I know its expensive and time consuming and all that and you dona great job a bringing the lore to life which is why i love your channel thank you! I do wish tho blizz would do a better job at adding either small cutscenes even lower quality ones to explain the lore in the game better. Even a camera angle or two flipping between npcs talking would be an improvement. Great job on these videos tho and thanks again for doin them!
The signal was the hand, look how she had her fist in the last pages and if it wasn't for Vereesa and her final words to Sylvanas, she would have given the sign. I Think it was a true and sincere apology what made her change her mind
Well one of the power aspects is "Death" (Chronicle Picture) Decay - Undead - Necromantic - Death ... Maybe the void feels that Sylvanas is on the way to become a threat on Titan level?
I took the Sylvanas thing the opposite way - it showed a glimmer, however slight, of the 'humanity' War Crimes had suggested she had, and since then appeared to have retconned. Everything in BfA has been making it sound like War Crimes was the last time she would feel anything close to 'love' but this comic gives me hope they won't make her total, 100% evil, even though she's already crossing the line into raid boss territory.
Hey Bellular, not related to the video but I was wondering if you could make a playlist for all your UI/Addon videos please?? I don't really use twitter to pose the question on there so In the comment section I go :P
Horde vs Alliance seems more and more like it is just a cover up to distract the denizens of Azeroth by the 6 powers vying for control the universe. Shadow, Light, Death, Life, Disorder & Order. With the current focus between Shadow, Light, and Death (as we just silenced the other 3 in Legion... for the time being.) I for one, am glad to see Sylvanas throwing a curve ball at the balance between light and shadow, creating so many more possibilities into what may happen throughout BFA and beyond.
I see Sylvanas much like much like Illidan. They see something further off, that can only be beaten by sacrificing more than most could ever endure. The voids reactions to her, tell me she and her actions are 100% threat to them, that something she's done, something she is or something she is planning is or will mess with their carefully laid plans. Perhaps the Loa knew this, and that is why Vol'jin was to make her Warchief.
The differences and strengths that the Undead have against the Old Gods will certainly be more pronounced in the days to come. After all, they have to start laying the groundwork for the Azjol-Nerub Expansion in Northrend and Lich King 2.0. Mark my words, it'll come.
I think, personally, it would be a genius move on blizzards part, to make a storyline involving the light and the church become heavily corrupt and zealous. Almost scarlet crusade like in nature. Ive been a player that mains paladin for a long time. And i think the sort of "crusade" like approach to it would be a really interesting situation for priest and paladin players to struggle with. Like almost extremizing the holy light to a violent degree. To juxtapose Sylvanas' desire to "free the world of its humanity", by making the light do essentially the same thing but "free the world of its corruption" with both being the same thing with a new paintjob. The opportunity to divide the playerbase and make it really controversial could be a great way to hold interest through the expansion and draw parallels to real world situations. Especially with the part about ronins son talking of labels.
Death/Undeath, as the enemy of Life (Void+Light?) is a very scary concept. It is nigh unstoppable. The Void simply cannot accept this and want Sylvanas, the proof of Death's power, to be removed.
![The Story of Before the Storm [Lore]](/img/1.gif)
I think a lot of what gets overlooked in the 'is she pure evil' debate is that there are in a way two Sylvanases.
There's the original one, who was vain and arrogant but also basically a good person, who sacrificed herself fighting to the end in order to buy her homeland and people a little more time. And then there's the new one, whose mind has been twisted by the effects of undeath reinforced by a fair amount of trauma.
If you pay careful attention, you will notice that the times Sylvanas seems most 'human' are when the things that really defined her in life come up... her sisters, Silvermoon, and issues of responsibility, duty, and sacrifice. It never lasts and it often turns twisted, but for a few moments you can see the old Sylvanas pushing to the front... a situation that is probably painful and distressing to the Banshee Queen. But Sylvanas makes a lot more sense as a character if you view her as a constant battle between these two, a battle the original Sylvanas always winds up losing in the end just as she failed to stop Arthas.
Ok time to sit down and study for this exa- *_OH HEY LOOK BELLULAR VIDEO_*
Love belular videos,
same.
Bell says he finished Economics (my major as well) while making videos and playing the game. We can too !
You'll be procrastinating on Bellular for a while seeing how he has the energy of a god in producing videos.
Story wise this is becoming very exciting. If you think back to when Sylvanas became Warchief, Vol'Jin said the spirits commanded it. Now the void marks her, fanatically, as the True Enemy. I can't wait to see how this is connected together
Sylvannus might be just plain evil, but I'm not buying it. Perhaps she used 'two truths and a lie' to decide whether to kill and raise them or not. As far as Sylvannus is concerned she held all the cards in that reunion, so if she truly wanted to kill them she could have. It doesn't make much sense to delay them "serving death" when she had her hand on the trigger the whole reunion.
Perhaps she is trying to convince herself that she isn't a squishy emotional mortal that misses her sisters or perhaps she is just trying to play the part in front of her dark rangers. Either way I am going to guess that this meeting meant a lot to her.
Lastly, it is important to remember the implications of her position. If she wants to help and embrace her family, then this will come at the cost of thousands of lives and most likely impede or out right lose her war, which I can't imagine will end with Sylvannus not executed or imprisoned. At this point Sylvannus has only poor options to choose from.
P.S. I see a few people around using the void ramblings in Alleria's head as an indicator or Sylvannus being the big baddy, but I can't remember the last time I trusted the void to be kind, honest, and helpful of its own accord. There is always an ulterior motive behind the void, do not forget that.
A clean and well presented piece as always Bell, great job!
Everyone seem to forget the Void is the cause of every problems in Azeroth history. Let alone Light if they dominate Azeroth, which shown in alternate timeline.
As what describe in the comic, it seem void was afraid the existence of her, meaning what she did all the way now is for the sake of the good, afterall the end justified all.
As for Shadowland, I don't think Jailer was evil as Void already invade Shadowland.
Sylvanas Windrunner's Gold Coin: "I hope my sisters and I can grow up and get married together."
Awww the feels.... ;-;
...A polygamous lesbian marriage? Wow. That's quite the plot.
:weary:
FortisConscius she meant that she hoped their wedding day will be in the same day so they also be together there to! And also all three of them (yes even Sylvanas) ended with humans. Cuz don’t tell me there wasn’t anything between Nathanos and Sylvanas.
Adri Adrian Oh there is definitely something, I guess the windrunner family had a weird mutation in their parents genes that made their offspring have human fetishes.
But Bellular , the old gods and the void lords are very much connected. Alleria is the one being Old Gods related. This shows how important role Sylvannas is going to have after BfA expansion because it seemed obvious here that the Void is afraid of Sylvannas.
Old Gods *serve* the void lords. Important distinction.
Doesn't matter, still same implications apply on my point. Shows that the void is threating Sylvannas as a huge threat and implies to some point the role that Sylvannas will have in the expansion after BfA which is at this point sure to be Void Lords and Old Gods related.
I don't dispute that. I just want to ensure no one gets confused.
He was saying that they could have been referring to the Old Gods in that they are Azeroth’s true enemy and killing one on their agents would serve the greater purpose of “good.” It would have been the void manipulating her by using her own concepts of the “true enemy” to get rid of something they fear.
That's what I am saying , the Old Gods SERVE the Void. So therefore Sylvannas can't be an agent of the Old Gods
Also...Sylvanas the true enemy of the void....Kerrigan much?!!
Blizzard is an one track pony, not surprises in there.
DeeoMaika and? Illidan Stormrage was the true enemy of the Burning Legion tip same thing.
They are actually very similar. If Sylvanas gets a redemption and then gets transformed into a Naaru, or absorbs its power it will be very similar lol. We have no Jim Raynor counterpart though.
Dr. Jeep Nah, i think Sylvanas will meet Goku and will learn to transform in Super Saiyan or Ultra Instinct 😂
@Eiji Shinjo Moron, that just makes things worse because you pointed out even MORE repetition in their story telling!
Why dont they just do youtube cinematics like WoD and MoP? That was amazing and very hype building.
there was also the harbingers series for Legion
I guess mediocre comics are cheaper
Wendigo or y’know, less time consuming for those who are working on the actual game so they can actually make it good. The animators need to work on the actual game, so putting it on 2D artists is actually understandable
allows them to alleviate workflow and also gives artists a chance to flex their muscle and get high brow work under their belt.
The comics are larger, have more content.
Read more, there's no instance in which reading is bad. EVER.
I read the end differently than you. She had every intent of killing them both when she said "We are done", and put up her hand to make ready to give the signal. Luckily Vereesa talked her down by saying that she was sorry, without really knowing what could have happend when she didn't.
If you look at her eyes, they're angry and she's standing back preparing herself to kill them both, but as soon as Vereesa admits her mistake she changes completely.
I really don't think the signal is her saying "My lie was that I will never betray you".
I think the "True Enemy" might refer to the Legion as from a void-lord point of view, they are the enemy. The ones who seek to undo their plans. Let us not forget that the plague of undeath was brought to Azeroth by the Legion and at one point the scourge was completely integrated into their ranks (the Lich King included). We have no reason to believe a being from outside the universe would care about the difference between Scourge and Forsaken.
Another reason I think this is they can't possibly do the faction leader corrupted by the Old God's AGAIN, can they?
Melodic Meerkat the problem with this theory is that it requires the writing to not be hamfisted and clumsy, they need raid bosses and they're running out of saved up characters, time to kill another
It would be kinda weird for the void to tell its pawn/host to kill a servent of the old gods since the old gods themselves are fragments of void lords so Sylvanas may not be a agent of the old gods but it be cool for death to finally have a god like being associated with it like the other cosmic forces in the universe have and its telling Sylvanas.
I don't think the Legion is particularly related to this, but by reading your comment I realized that Sargeras' goal was to end all things before they got corrupted by the void. Maybe Sylvannas is a threat to the void because, just like the Legion, her objective is to end all life, turning everything into undead. Let's not forget that the ones who become Forsaken are the ones with a strong will to resist the master's call (Scourge), as it also shows in their passive abilities (Will of the Forsaken, Shadow Resist.). So having to deal with strong-willed undead instead of corruptable mortal creatures would be much worse for the Void, and that's why I think Sylvannas is their enemy.
rdogg114 What is more interesting is how the void talked about Sylvanas. When it talked about Turallyon, it just said kill him because he is a servant of the light, but it talked about Sylvanas even after she left and it told the truth (or at least a part of it): “you will watch as she claims them” which is a part of Sylvanas’s plan, taking everyone under her control.
That's exactly what I thought of, it only makes sense that Sylvanas would be maybe receiving slight hints from the Legion and to me it looks as she is now on her way to becoming another Lich King (queen)
Point of interest Vareesa took part in the purging of the Sunreavers along with Jaina
Actually I think Sylvanas' back and forth makes a lot of sense, it is kind of a theme at this point. Remember when Garrosh asked what separated her from the lich king? Well the Lich King, Arthas at the time, cast out his humanity. Sylvanas hasn't. She struggles with it, going back and forth between a heartless Lich Queen and someone struggling to cling to their past. She still loves Nathanos in whatever way she is still able to love, and she still has attachment to her sisters. These lingering attachments are her redeeming qualities. The "human" part of her that still remains. Arthas cast his aside to fully become the Lich King, but after years Sylvanas is still struggling with hers back and forth.
Logan Marlow Explained perfectly and i actually believe this is what Blizzard is trying to do (though i do not like Slyvanas' current actions)
Showing her struggling and bending her towards the dark side and something major will happen and make her embrace her humanity fully and become a proper leader
I think one problem with Sylvanas is that these themes and ideas don't really tie too much into her in-game actions, or at least not very clearly. Everything in game seems to be entirely motivated by self-preservation. Maybe if her obsession with getting Valkyr was to preserve not just her, but explicitly to also preserve her loved ones, and in turn their loved ones, it'd all seem a bit more complex. What if they had it so Sylvanas tried to tempt Vereesa into joining her side and offered to bring Rhonin back in exchange? Then when she refuses because it wouldn't seem right, Sylvanas could take it very personally, justifying that shit fit she had.
Then again I'm not really sure how they'd work sisterly love and struggles with mortality into turning Teldrassil into a bloody good Guy Fawkes night.
agree with this, the writing is just awful for an unforgiving fanbase and the consequences are pretty visible
I don't think Sylvanas can bring Rhonin back 'cause, iirc, he was completely vaporized.
Very astute!!
Sylvanas mounting them on her undead horses almost looks symbolic of them riding to their deaths from the very start.
Warning: Wall of text incoming but I think I make some valid points regarding Sylvanas so... I hope it'll be a pleasure to read! ^^
When I read the Three Sisters Comic... I did not get that vibe you were getting from Sylvanas at all. Full disclosure though, I have been a fan of Sylvanas' struggle to just survive ever since Warcraft III.
But I don't see her as an evil character, not even with events such as her raising dead to be given the choice to join the Forsaken, die again or just live on their own life (Forsaken starting area) or with her actions in the opening scenario of BfA.
This is my theory of why she's proud to be leading the Horde and the reason why she couldn't tell them what her lie was:
Sylvanas had one goal when she was freed from Arthas, revenge. When she was put into a position of freedom however, she decided to build up an empire for herself before joining in the hunt for Arthas.
However, several years passed before that hunt ever took place and the same kind of fire and fury she had in Warcraft III seemed to have died down. She had become focused on making sure that _the Forsaken as a faction remained strong_ and that's important... because after her ordeal with Wrath of the Lich King and her bringing the Val'kyr to ressurrect people for her, she seemed to have changed her mind.
We all know at this point all she cared about was to stay alive but I don't think that's the correct way to portray it. Sylvanas' is not dumb, she's probably the smartest character in all of World of Warcraft due to her lack of emotion. The lack of emotion makes her unpassionate in everything she does and is as a direct result cold-hearted and exceptionally calculating.
This means that in events such as Genn stealing the lantern from her she couldn't predict just to what extent he would go and be willing to suffer (taking one of her arrows to the chest just to steal it) and thus' made a tactical error.
Now think about it like this...
In this calculating manner that she has, wouldn't it make sense that she truely cares about the Horde to stay alive as a faction because it means she has the ENTIRE Horde at her back? Garrosh was slain by both factions because everyone hated and dispised him, but if Sylvanas' keeps up her appearance as a good leader for the Horde ... she'll have half of Azaroth at her back ... essentially forever.
That'd be a pretty good insurance to staying alive.
But how does this work with her sisters? Well, I think that here's where she couldn't tell them what she lied about... because she didn't tell 2 truths and 1 lie, she told them 3 truths but not by her own will. Remember... she's cold hearted and calculating with no emotions left... what if she has her sisters tell her that they still love her?
That'd be a damn great deal of emotions right there. So she never lied... but she couldn't tell them the truth because she doesn't know it herself since those two are her only last pieces of emotions left in the world.
That's what I got from it and why I fundamentally believe that she isn't evil.
ArgentumEmperio the problem with your well reasoned argument is that she doesn’t really have the entire Horde behind her. Saurfang is against her, there are times in the different scenarios where Bane questions her... they are setting it up for the undead to despise her and I think there are too many seeds of discontent. She would need to do something to prove herself and right now that doesn’t seem to be happening. I like your ideas on her emotions though and think that will play a big part moving forward.
I don't think she doesn't care about the Horde at all or that she cares, but only as a means to an end. Sylvanas was the ranger-general of Silvermoon for possibly hundreds of years. She was always depicted as being the serious of the Windrunner siblings, because, no matter the tragedy, she never backed down from her duties. And now, just like it was her duty as ranger-general to protect Quel'thalas, it is her duty as warchief to protect the Horde, and she will see it through, whether she likes it or not.
ok she *has* emotions even in undeath, she is passionate about her leadership and to achieve her goals. She's not a computer nor a mindless scourge. She's even fond of Nathanos eventhough she doesn't want to confess it.
Its so nice to read this as a comment that understands the Banshee Queen amidst of all the haters...
The boy is an example of how the Alliance has always seen the Forsaken..Sylvanas gave everything to defeat Arthas and when she was raised as a forsaken they turned their backs on her..and the Horde welcomed all of them as we do. What do the Alliance expect? When ones usefulness is over in their eyes they discard them..no wonder she's the way she is
I'm gona need that meeting in cinematic form, thank you, Blizzard.
Her lie is that she is Proud to be Warchief. You can tell that everything she does, she does because she HAS to, and not because she Wants to.
She cares VERY little for the other Horde races and wants to solely ensure the Forsaken's survival, no matter the odds.
She DOES wish that she was alive at times, and she will never betray her sisters, in life OR in death.
She wants them to be like Nethanos, forsaken, but mentally sound for the most part, albeit subconsciously under her control.
She wants to be with her sisters' again, but she fears losing them and being alone again.
And so, she wants them immortally undead and with her forever.
As I posted on T&E's video about this, I think the more likely explanation is that the Alliance v Horde War gets Arator killed. This will send Alleria into a downward spiral, driving a wedge between her and Turalyon. She will blame both sides for her son's death, she will be angry at the Horde simply because she harbors resentment towards Sylvanas (and for maybe even trying to raise Arator), and she'll come to see the Alliance as a symbol of the Light which she'll blame for her husband "leaving" her, as he won't be able to support or abide her increasingly desperate actions. This will set her up as the final raid boss. We'll defeat (or kill) her, which will set up the next (Void) expansion. The act of putting their sister down will drive Sylvanas and Vereesa to reconcile. Sylvanas will lay down the mantle of Warchief (likely not naming a successor), and they'll just strike out on their own.
The signal was just a hand signal. Look at Sylvana's arm in the last few pages and it's pretty obvious.
I think the same, and Verresa's apology made her lower her hand (canceling the signal). She got emotional. Maybe this is what Vol'Jin saw in her.
I dont think that "I would never betray you" was the lie. I think the lie is that shes proud to be warchief due to her showing a complete lack of any attachment to the Horde itself, it's a tool to her. Sure she was planning to kill Vareesa and Aleria but I dont think that she views that as a betrayal, I think that Sylvanas thinks that turning them would be in all their best interests.
A con artist can be proud of a huge con of theirs. might be that kind of pride, you know. doesn't have to mean she's proud of being a warchief.. or by all means that she sees the title of warchief as say, an orc would.
I actually completely agree with this. Everything in Before the Storm points to her feeling very uninspired as Warchief. She didn't want the job, she doesn't even like it. She wants to be back underground where she's truly happy. She sees the Horde as something that has allowed her to exist, but they have never really accepted her. She might not feel that the Horde is a part of her, even if she might wish that it was.
"Betrayal" to Sylvanas is more like what the Desolate Council was.
well most crazy evil overloards dont really view their actions as wrong ... she see things from her own twisted point of view ...
I think her missing being alive was the lie and I think that was going to be the signal to her rangers to strike. I could see it going down like this.
"My lie is that I miss being alive. While that may have been true at one point, I have embraced the power and strength granted to me by undeath. So no, I don't miss being alive... and neither will you." (Dark rangers attack and kill the sisters.)
Redsquill ya it's totally not her lie...even tho she was about to betray them
Wow I’ve never been here so early. It feels…
Kind of neutral actually
I think the signal was supposed to given near the Gate at the ending of the comics. Take note how the comic there focus on her hand and eyes expression. But Varissa apologise and admit her mistake which gives Sylvanas second thoughts.
I have to say, it's awesome that they make these comics available to the general public, for free- and give these writers and artists a chance to give their interpretation of potential huge lore moments, like these comics. It just makes me sad that it's something that isn't represented in the actual game, yet it's harkened back to casually as if the player was aware of it.
As a person with all the Warcraft novels and comics, canon and non-canon alike, I would love to see more of the narrative in the medium of the source: the game. 😁
Remember, there was a high elf in blue armor in front of burning Teldrasil
KazeRV Yeah that’s not a high elf especially not Vereesa since she doesn’t play any role in BfA so far.
"We should play a game on our journey, sisters."
Is this really coming from Sylvanas "I have no time for games" Windrunner?
That beautiful background music. Great Video. Another perfect score!
Interesting and kinda want to see where Blizz takes it as well.
Also I'm sure you might've already know this but @ 6:55 you said Void instead of Blood.
My money is on Blizzard heading towards the old bait and switch. They make Sylvanas seem moustache twirlingly evil in their hamfisted way, make it seem like she is going to be the big bad or betrayer at the end of the expansion, but then it ends up being Alleria that is the baddie.
The true enemy of the void is death.
Void wants control, but its hard to control what isnt alive.
the lamest plot ever
Undeath*
+Runicknight Undead is not dying. as such not entering the abyss or whatever else. and not being alive means more resistance to void influence or influences in general. while the theme is different.... let's say the light and the void need life in some form. light preserves life and is very controlling. void controls life in order to feed on it. Undead are... outside of that. so if you kill all life or otherwise make it resistant to the void and being fed to the void (as planned by sargeras, potentially sylvanas/whatever fate and cause she's involved in) let's assume heaven and hell/demonic enteties were real. humans never dying would be a pretttty big deal then yeah? A third option if you will.. or a third faction.
I agree! That's an important point: the Forsaken are the ones strong-willed enough to resist "the master's call" (scourge), so by ending all life to serve her, she is creating something the void can't corrupt. Also think about the forsaken racials: Will of the Forsaken and Shadow Resistance... that says something!
I think if you're speaking about classic examples of good vs evil, the Void naming Sylvanis as the true enemy follows the eastern philosophy of Yin and Yang or the Void and the Light being opposite sides of the same coin. All of the existence spends time in both the Light and the Void, together they are the balance of the universe. Living things are born, spend time in the light and return to the void via rot and decay. However, Sylvanis seeks to break this pattern. She is looking to live (be undead) forever. In creating more forsaken, she strips the power away from the Yin and Yang. She could replace both Void and Light with her Forsaken and in doing so, end the eternal cycle that balances the universe.
I like your general ideas of the Light and Void in this Bellular. The Void seeing all possibilities and believing all to be true since it doesn't have a clear perspective, while the Light sees one truth and follows and upholds it completely. This recent comic was eye-opening, and discouraging from my perspective. I'm honestly not on board with another Horde leader being deemed as evil and needing to be put down, a classic "been there, done that" idea to me. But seeing all three Windrunners together again, seeing parallels, their strifes and how they aren't so cohesive after the traumas they've experienced, and their truths and lies - all of it was awesome to read about. Especially the Void Whispers' urgency towards Sylvanas, that part was interesting to keep in mind. The Void always seemed so calm and absolute in-game. Even when killing Void servants, Old Gods, the ethernal -they don't sound displeased when they fail or get snuffed out. This is actually the most urgency I've seen in a Void entity toward a threat since, I don't think anything.
Thanks Bellular, if i hadn't seen this video i wouldn't have known this snippet of lore even existed. Feels like this continues the conversation the windrunner sisters were having during the Argus chapters, it intrigued me and I was looking forward to seeing what unfolded in game. Thanks Blizzard for including it in a bloody comic :)
A thing to think about, besides blizzard laying the foundation to WC4 is a possibility, is that We've never seen the Void fear anything, but the way they react to Death (sylvanas) is like it is their real nemesis, more than the light, more than the burning legion.
They are making it sound like Death itself as an identity. Could that be the Void and the Light true enemy? As something above them?
I really do enjoy your videos a lot. You're definitely one of my favorite RUclipsrs. You just always give so much content with the videos being super fun to watch with all the amazing editing. You definitely deserve a lot more viewers
Everyone keeps focusing on how Sylvanas saw that she could kill and raise civilizations the way she wanted to after touching the Azerite. They are entirely disregarding that Anduin saw the same thing. Yes, he did see how he could bring peace, unite societies etc... but at the end there he also saw how he could utterly destroy everything and how many people he could kill... just like Sylvanas. So in essence they both saw the same thing just from different perspectives. But with him being a follower of the light and a priest and all that "Good" and "holy" stuff.. him seeing that is a lot more interesting than Sylvanas seeing that.
I made this speculation over on Taliesin's video on this topic about the "true enemy" mentioned by Alleria's void presence. Since the Lich King was created by Kil'jaeden the true enemy that the void references may still be Sargeras and the void may believe that he will free himself from the Pantheon's imprisonment.
Obviously, Sylvanas wanted to kill them originally, but Vereesa's honesty touched her heart, showing she still loves them deeply. It is disturbing however that neither Vereesa nor the empowered Alleria could sense her approach or intention....
I hope blizz got the art for free because if they payed for it they got duped big time
this! some pages are ok, but other are WTF happend with her faces! weird stile.
The artists still deserve to get paid, but they could've done better for sure..
modern “comics”
well if whoever you hire to do a job does not meet the standards than no, they should not get payed. sorrybut human proportions are one of the most basic skills of any comic book artist, you can't be one until you master them and in this comic the elven women look like physically stunnted goblins on several occasions
Don't forget about the horrible faces, trying to make it photo-like and failing horribly.
Darkness needs life to devour and the Light needs life to control and serve it the one thing that can stop either is death which is what Sylvanas represents. Death is freedom in this case. This is why Volj'jin picked Sylvanas since she is the one being that neither the void or light can devour or control. What we maybe possibly seeing is a future set up for war between the void, the light, and death.
6:00 11:00 Well, let's not forget that by extension, the power of making undeads is born from the Legion's magic.
Where do I sign up to be a dark ranger? I'm tired of all these whiny Alliances and Hordes with their morals and remorse and aversions to blight. For the Dark Lady!
TheBoogerJames i'm a belf fan (love their lore) and honestly I think using the blight was a good move
Welp,you are serving a dead leader,in shadowlands she surely will be killed
Sylvanas could be proud to lead the horde but not enjoy leading the horde. It's an acknowledgement of all she has accomplished since since breaking away from Arthas.
"They just cannot help but make Sylvanas seem wholly evil" - In fairness that has been the running story with her since Vanilla, it's just in recent years they have backed off it a little because she became a fan favourite. Hell in the Vanilla manual the faction listings even explained that the Forsaken were only allied with the Horde out of convenience (as neither could stand alone against the alliance), they have no true loyalty to the Horde and that Sylvanas would kill alliance and Horde alike to ensure her "dark plans come to fruition".
I think we need to bear in mind that the Dark Rangers would all have known the Windrunner sister and may not have wanted to kill them either. They may not necessarily be upset with Sylvanas not pulling the trigger.
It was a hand signal. You can see the focus on her hand where she was going to raise it to call in the rangers when Vereesa is talking to her.
I'm grateful that Blizzard is finally giving humanization to void-based characters instead of just, "I'm insane! Kill me before I destroy things!" like they had with Cho'gall, the Old Gods, and the Titan Keepers of Ulduar and the Halls of Lightning.
I also enjoy how the Light is a portrayal of order rather than good. Just because a society or organization is organized doesn't mean that it's good, and we knew that the Light works with evil because of Arthas and his culling of Stratholme. The Light and the Void are blurring the lines of good and evil now, and the Light and the Void are not inherently associated with one or the other. It adds realistic complexity to the world while also giving rpers like myself lore grounds to make more interesting and complex characters.
Specific to the comic though, I like how it gives actual dialogue for the void whispers in Alleria's head. It gives grounds for what sort of dialogue another void-based character would have as well.
I agree, Light=order Void=chaos
Either one can be -bad-
But it doesn't mean they can't be used for good, after all players can use a Shadow Priest, Ethereals use the void, some dipped tp far and serve it while others like Lotus Walker can use it to his advantage.
Paladins, priest, use the light for good, whereas Scarlet uses it for evil.
I like that these two alignments aren't just bad and good.
The void is after the sunwell, we see this when Alleria comes close to the sunwell although we managed to contain it. Arthas was after the sunwell, every dark thing has been after the sunwell whether to seize it's power or to destroy it. The true enemy is the enemy of the sunwell. Sylvanas I believe will be redeemed as a result of saving it, possibly by killing off the void. Just my speculation on it. Maybe she has seen things that we players do not know about. Voljin said before he died that she must take up the position of Horde Warchief. That he has seen things, and she must do this. There has to be an even bigger reason than the Legion to do so. Sylvanas barely fought in Legion. Lore wise we did see her in Stormheim and in Helheim but only for her own gains. Sylvanas is the type of character that does not waste time and what serves her well is usually getting on with the job, no second guessing and acting on impulse.
Also remember that when the Valkeries left the Lich king and he realized he had no connection with them anymore and couldn't control them it was because he sensed that they had a new master. So this could mean one of two things...either through luck or fate Sylvanna's connection was severed from Arthas due to another type of "god like" char OR her hatred of Arthas for making her an undead and forcing her to consiously and unwillingly destroy her own king and kingdom grew to the point where she became a different type of master of the dead. But either way this is going to be fun!!
Since Arathor was supposed to be Allerias anchor, I have a feeling he is toast. And from seeing how evil Sylv has been lately, I bet she is going to raise him as undead :D
You know, I didn't even notice your black eye until you mentioned it earlier. Now I can't unsee it.
Personally I think blizzard just don't know how to tell a story anymore in the warcraft team.
All those that did have moved on to other games or retired. Blizzard really needed metzen it seems..
Edit: Fixing spelling.
Wacka Doodle thats why Christie Golden was hired to write for the game. Thr novels she writes for the in between expansions are much more cohesive. Hopefully with her being there the game won't contradict the better writing and story flow in the novels.
The thing is though having a good cohesive story in an mmo especially a very open ended one is difficult. Not every player will see the story things are missed or just not there to begin with. FF 14 probably has the best story in terms of general story telling but the game is super linear and many of the main quests end up being terrible and boring.
Metzen wasnt that great either. He had a vision and good ideas bet didnt put them together very well. He created no real backstory for the 1st warcraft mostly just framing. It wasnt until wc2 that any real explanation to the game world came and most of that was told through licensed novels. Plus all the retcons and new novels that had to be made for warcraft up to lich king for it all to make any real sense. Blizzard as a whole are great at world building and setting all the pieces up but are bad story tellers. Even diablo suffered the same. Star craft i think was the only game that didnt require retcons through novels or future games
I heard of and what read some of her work and it is fantastic. She adds so much humanity to sylvannas and the others; I'm surprised she isn't writing for the game lore at this point.
You are also right on metzen, he isn't perfect but what he improves definately gets more care than the lore now. Granted it's just 2 games in without him but they showed they can do a good story in legion; so why not BfA? They even show heartfelt moments but have to ruin it due to tropes!
Can't we just have a moment to feel for a character? Like arthas and his grasp for humanity with his father. Thrall and his understanding of orcs or even the night elves and their understanding in trust for others. Something BfA retconned with the introduction of a new race and explaination why alliance didn't get them.
It feels more like a company got in the way rather than telling a story. It would be nice that they give the good story tellers (Like Christie Golden) a bigger role in their games over telling ppl "this is the bad guy, these are good guys. Look how evil the bad guys are!"
Wacka Doodle she is writing for the game lore she was hired awhile ago officially
I really hope she wasn't the one that wrote "sylvannas killed her people to raise them as undead" then, because it contradicts wotlk where she was opposed to using the plague at the wrath gate; one of her undead didn't like how she ran things and took his own stand against her, using the plague on alliance and horde to rid the lich king AND claiming to do it for sylvannas so the blame would go to her.
She and thrall even had to go with the champion (player) into undercity and reclaim it back from them. Sylvannas even said she wanted to use the plague on the lich king, but not at that time "it wasn't ready" and especially not on the alliance, as they are both fighting for the same cause.
Then BfA comes in and throws it out the window, now she will use the plague; she doen't care for life and the people that turned on her were banished for doing what she did now. Remember this wrath gate was before she killed herself; she valued life back then.
Wacka Doodle the thing with the plague in tirisfal. Its her home she is defending it for her and her people like a last ditch effort to save what/who she can. Its not explained well in game currently as i hear. But maybe it intentional? To have players contemplate the goals of characters and narrative direction. The comic shows sylvannas has some kind of grand plan. The shadows want her dead also. As the expansion plays out im sure it will all make sense, especially if Golden has a large role in it.
Not sure if its still up but the new novel previews have a large excerpt that details the respective factions attacks. Which makes sylvannas not look wholy evil like the game suggests. Sucks that this is left to outside material like novels which not everyone is down to read. Some cinimatics or animated comics would be cool like WoD had but they can be expensive to produce and possibly move artists away from the game
Honestly I think Sylvanas is the only one who can stop the Void, it seems to be very affraid of her, and I guess, for reason.
Seriously I think the reason the Void wants Sylvanas dead is because the only people who can stop them will most likely be her AND Anduin. I say that only because of a comment made a long time ago during legion. I used to think like everyone else and that it was Aleria's son but I'm not so sure anymore after thinking about it some more. I think one person could never handle both the light and dark energies together but an undead can wield light magics so it's not impossible for both sides to come together magically. I know what I mean but I'm not sure how to explain it properly.
I really can't wait to read Before the Storm. I haven't been excited about reading since I read the Redwall series years ago.
I think the comic hints the death of Arator imo
Honestly, I don't think Arator will die..after all...he's technically the Child of Light and Shadow ;)
Yeah and the void said "the light is a curse", from the void's perspective Arator is "corrupted"
I made a void elf shadow priest but I only hear whispers from my weapon, shouldn't I get some void whispers as well? Better yet they don't even add text, it's legit just audio whispers. Guess it would be too in depth.
I was discussing this with my son. We both have void elves and nada on the whispers. Shouldn't we hear whispers? This was one of the things Alleria was helping us to control and to be strong against.
In be For Arator is killed by sylvannas, and raised as an Undead. Thus driving Alleria over the edge and BAM Tentacle hentai mode engaged.
It's quite obvious when I went and actually read the comic, the game wasn't the signal. At the end Sylvanas is holding her fist up to her chest, about to give the signal. The moment Vereesa says she was a coward, Sylvanas's eye fly open wide and after she lowers her hand without giving the signal.
The Battle for Vereesa. What if it comes down to Alleria and Sylvanas fighting over who gets to dominate her (void or undeath)?
Sylvannas didnt chose to become undead, Alleria chose the void. Sylvannas helped the undead when everybody saw them as outcasts now she will do everything for her people to survive. I think sylvannas is awesome.
Jens Jensen You know that she now raises the dead bodies and curse them forever just as Arthas did to her, right? Do not be hypocrite, man.
What I figure the void was talking about is the fact that Sylvanas serves the efforts to protect Azeroth. The Void is also on the same side as the Old Gods which means Sylvanas is opposite that. If anything, Sylvanas is a threat because her and the undead are deaf to the whispers of the void and the old gods. That means as long as she can move without their influence, she’s a threat. She can keep raising undead over and over and over giving her an endless enemy. Also, the horde and alliance took down the Legion which was also opposite of the Void and Old Gods. Essentially they’re stronger and the void fears the players of Azeroth.
Quoting myself from T&E's vid on this topic:
*Light and Shadow are opposite forces,* like order and chaos, basically. Light shapes life -or binds it, according to Eonar's epithet-; it orders Life. On the other hand, Shadow feeds on Life, wreaks havoc on it. *And endless struggle as long as there's Life* to shape, bind, control, order, wreck, consume, feed upon or corrupt. They both need Life to... well... to live.
Death is the one true enemy of Life. *In the realms of Death, there's* neither Light nor Shadow, just because there's also *no Life.*
...and what's even more frightening, *in Undeath there's not even Death.* Undeath is empty, and it's the actual end of all things. It's the one place where even Death dies; the one true enemy of absolutely everything.
"The TRUE Enemy" is what spawned on Azeroth, it´s mortal races... In the end, Azeroth (+Draenor) Mortals are responsible for every major event in WoW.
We blocked 2 Old Gods before they could be a real threat, we dismantled the Buning Legion and imprisioned a Titan (with a little help)...
To the Void Lords, Sylvanas is one of the (if not the) best Azerothian leaders... Others are just too focused on the Light or other forces to be counted as a threat...
But Sylvanas is focused on the Forsaken and the Horde, on the schemes and maquinations of mortals, exactly what has been thwarting any move from other forces....
Or not...
Setting up for Warcraft to become a Three Faction Game! Void vs Light vs Death! Woooo~
On warchief, you can be proud of something you don't want to do.
i find funny how people hate sylvannas so much that are willing to trust the whisper of the freaking VOID. Because they never deceive anybody.
BioMatic2 I hate sylvannas because she is selfish, warmongering and want her precious forsaken, not to be happy, but to blindly follow her. Don’t necessarily trust the void. Not at all really. But one being bad doesn’t make the other good.
I’m Horde and....Although I don’t agree with everything our Queen does, I can sympathize with her. Sylvanas was once a strong woman with a good heart and it was all taken away from her. She’s suffering, and has been suffering for so long. It’s as if she’s in a constant state of regret. I can’t imagine being lost in both light and darkness like that.
If sylvanas ever gets cast out of the horde, i hope a third faction will arise out of it.
I have always been rooting for the forsaken... i hope that choice does not get taken away at any point.
Bellular, when is the last time you have been exposed to sunlight?
He feeds in the night. He can't go out during the day.
IT BURNSSSSSSSSS
To Sylvanas death is not a bad thing. I see how people consider her point of view "evil," but to her it's just a way to draw here family closer to her so she can protect them.
Yeah imagine 3 OP windrunners in the undead faction WHHHAHAHA alliance is screwed:P
Curious if the killed and resurrected Alleria, would Alleria still have control over the void as an undead? (kinda like shadow priests do) Or will the void abandon her?
Sylvannas missed the change to screw the alliance hard, but can't really blame here for getting emotional.
Well from my point of view the Jedi are evil. . .
Oh wait
Starting to think Sylvanas is the new Illidan in WoW. Seen as evil but everything she does has a higher more noble purpose.
The Void being scared of her makes me think she knows more than she lets on and might have a clue how to defeat the void and the old gods. Hence the Void warning Alleria. She also has an Arthas aura around her, doing anything to make her plan work, even if it's against her sisters. Maybe she will betray them not because she is evil but because she wants to save them in her own unknown idea of saving Azeroth. Maybe the Forsaken have a key role in defeating the Void. Just an opinion.
Great observation to the story of the sisters! Couldn't agree more!
Well, The Lich King was the handy work of the Burning Legion, meaning the undead are literally a direct enemy of the void.
Bellular is such an articulate and interesting dude to listen to. He’s a great story teller in all story telling aspects. Keep it up bro!
Since you mentioned the 'infinite abyss that awaits her in death' that she saw after being impaled on *Saronite* (!!!) here's some more food for thought:
What Sylvanas said: ' *They will serve death* . They will serve... me.'
What someone else said: ' *Bow down before the God of Death* !'
What was said about Sylvanas: 'She seeks the *death of all things* ...'
What someone else said: ' *The end of days is finally upon you and ALL* who inhabit this miserable little seedling.'
What Sylvanas said: 'I can't allow that sentiment, that *hope* to grow. It is an infection, ready to spread. *I have to cut it out* .'
What the official title of someone else is: ' *Hope's End* '
Coincidence? I think not! *conspiracy theory intensifies* :D
Also, someone else said: ' *Your petty quarrels* only make me stronger!' ... Who starts conflicts for no good reason in BfA?...
I know right! :D We can't wait to see some shady stuff go down! *rubs hands nyalothically*
It be weird for the void to try to destroy a servant of there servant.
I get that, but the void isn't a single entity, it is a primal force of creation, and recent trends in Blizz's storytelling indicate that the void isnt't all evil and the light isn't all good. So Alleria's void could just be a force, and not share allegiance and schemes with every Old God and Void God out there, the same way the light isn't the Naaru themselves and they don't share the same plans.
It could also be that seeing the Saronite vision drew Sylly mad (Mad King 'burn them all' style) and she wants to kill them all before they can be turned, which ofc the void doesn't want. Either way, she's bad news, and only started her paranoid quest of undead turning, Helya deals, enslaving valkyr, war, murder etc. after she saw a vision from the Blood of Yogg-Saron.
Well, I grateful for this recap...because that artwork was not something I feel like suffering through.
So, The Legion was wiping the slate clean to stop the void, and the legion are the ones who set arthus's tragic story in motion...did I get that right? so if the undead are the result of legion actions then would it not make sense for the void to be calling her a true enemy? the legion were the ones trying to wipe out all possibilities.
You know people don't think about the game from a strategic standpoint she burn Tedrasill down because that was the only major Alliance base besides the exodar on her side of the world and by plagueing her own City when she exited the battle for lordearon she deprived the alliance of a new base and effectively left all of her enemies on the opposing continent so she's effectively split the world into.
They just need to make a third faction, one they can choose to be evil, the horde can continue to just be the sloppy disorganized not necessarily benevolent horde, and alliance can continue to be the group who blindly follows their objectives in the name of subjective non-benevolent good
I feel like they wanted the Horde to be outright villains but then someone reminded them warcraft 3 existed so they try to do this moral grey thing really badly.
The Warsong/Grom were pretty villainous with the whole bloodrage thing going on but Thrall was pretty heroic from start to finish worst thing he did was having to fight the alliance because Grom rejected his orders to leave the alliance alone.
laertes104 I call it sloppy because of course what Sylvanas and Hellscream have done it villainous, meanwhile the Goblins screw over everyone, but on the flip side you have Tauren trying to heal everything.
laertes104 calling thrall Stalin isn't only laughable but hilariously downplaying the fact that anyone who stands in a system of evil without fighting against it is standing for evil.
If the Horde is unethical, what makes that the alliance?
The Alliance is a direct reflection of the Christianity-controlled parts of the world, which grew in size by effectively trying (and most times succeeding in) removing diversity of culture from their targets.
If refusing to let people live their lives and culture the way they themselves want is not unethical and immoral...
I'm interested to see how Anduin's story will turn out. With all this new lore about The Light and how extreme it appears to be, I wonder how it will affect Anduin since he seems to be embracing the light on a deeper level, as the cinematic shows.
On the one hand I think it's unimaginably cruel that Sylvanas would do that to her own sisters but also in her own way it's how she feels she can reunite her family.
My guess is that the Light, compared to the other magics, is more submissive in relation to its wielder, and as such, the wielder has a much bigger effect on how the light works. So with the Dranei of alternate Draenor, they have developed it into a religion which in turn has turned into a form of the inquisition, thereby turning the light, or specifically the light they use into this manipulative and all too forceful thing, using it to force captured orcs to become light-forged.
An easier way to think of this is that, The light does not force you to do anything but will let you do anything with it (Within reason) whereas Void, Fel, and even Arcane to an extent all force their user to do or become things while letting the user channel their power.
I think in her mind, she doesn’t think killing them would be betraying them, that it would be “freeing” them. Misery loves company, but it never wants to admit to its existence. You see it a lot with guys under heaven PSTD; they absolutely refuse to leave hell. The lie is that she misses life (whether that’s true, or not, who knows) .
Off topic but with all these conflicts will there be a time when races choose sides or the individual player themselves will choose which faction they want to align to. This might open into alot of possibilities and perhaps making questing alot more interactable as you pick quests it will lean to which side you are going to be. It will also be fun in PVP seeing all that chaos all over the place but that is just me.
I do really think you misread that end. She was going to signal with her hand at the end, that is why it kept focusing on it. She only changed her mind with the apology. If I had to wager, that was the lie, the part with her sisters, but in that moment all three became truth.
For 5 fundamental forces, except LIFE, which is the only genuinely benevolent force (until now), all the other forces have very powerful cosmic entities except DEATH. Now Lich King was the strongest necromancer but his power is nothing compared to Sargeras (DISORDER), the Pantheon (ORDER), the Light (LIGHT), or the Void Lords (SHADOW). This seems to point that DEATH will indeed be one of the next villains where powerful cosmic entity is revealed to be in play, defeated, only strengthens Void Lords grip on the world, building up for the epic Void Lord expansion, then finally Light one.
I know its expensive and time consuming and all that and you dona great job a bringing the lore to life which is why i love your channel thank you!
I do wish tho blizz would do a better job at adding either small cutscenes even lower quality ones to explain the lore in the game better. Even a camera angle or two flipping between npcs talking would be an improvement.
Great job on these videos tho and thanks again for doin them!
The signal was the hand, look how she had her fist in the last pages and if it wasn't for Vereesa and her final words to Sylvanas, she would have given the sign.
I Think it was a true and sincere apology what made her change her mind
Well one of the power aspects is "Death" (Chronicle Picture) Decay - Undead - Necromantic - Death ... Maybe the void feels that Sylvanas is on the way to become a threat on Titan level?
I took the Sylvanas thing the opposite way - it showed a glimmer, however slight, of the 'humanity' War Crimes had suggested she had, and since then appeared to have retconned. Everything in BfA has been making it sound like War Crimes was the last time she would feel anything close to 'love' but this comic gives me hope they won't make her total, 100% evil, even though she's already crossing the line into raid boss territory.
Hey Bellular, not related to the video but I was wondering if you could make a playlist for all your UI/Addon videos please?? I don't really use twitter to pose the question on there so In the comment section I go :P
Horde vs Alliance seems more and more like it is just a cover up to distract the denizens of Azeroth by the 6 powers vying for control the universe. Shadow, Light, Death, Life, Disorder & Order. With the current focus between Shadow, Light, and Death (as we just silenced the other 3 in Legion... for the time being.)
I for one, am glad to see Sylvanas throwing a curve ball at the balance between light and shadow, creating so many more possibilities into what may happen throughout BFA and beyond.
It is more likely that the signal was related to Sylvanas' raised fist that she lowered again after Vereesa's confession.
The moment Sylvanas went "skreeee" was so epic. haHAA
Sylvanas looks like she's becoming the new "Lich King". Would be nice to see her travel to Bolvar and make some kind of deal to start some shit up!
I see Sylvanas much like much like Illidan. They see something further off, that can only be beaten by sacrificing more than most could ever endure. The voids reactions to her, tell me she and her actions are 100% threat to them, that something she's done, something she is or something she is planning is or will mess with their carefully laid plans. Perhaps the Loa knew this, and that is why Vol'jin was to make her Warchief.
The differences and strengths that the Undead have against the Old Gods will certainly be more pronounced in the days to come. After all, they have to start laying the groundwork for the Azjol-Nerub Expansion in Northrend and Lich King 2.0. Mark my words, it'll come.
I wish Bolvar would roll in to Sylvanas a la "I find your lack of faith desturbing " style. With frozen dragons and shit!
I think, personally, it would be a genius move on blizzards part, to make a storyline involving the light and the church become heavily corrupt and zealous. Almost scarlet crusade like in nature. Ive been a player that mains paladin for a long time. And i think the sort of "crusade" like approach to it would be a really interesting situation for priest and paladin players to struggle with. Like almost extremizing the holy light to a violent degree. To juxtapose Sylvanas' desire to "free the world of its humanity", by making the light do essentially the same thing but "free the world of its corruption" with both being the same thing with a new paintjob. The opportunity to divide the playerbase and make it really controversial could be a great way to hold interest through the expansion and draw parallels to real world situations. Especially with the part about ronins son talking of labels.
Death/Undeath, as the enemy of Life (Void+Light?) is a very scary concept. It is nigh unstoppable. The Void simply cannot accept this and want Sylvanas, the proof of Death's power, to be removed.