Best Bowhunting Arrow Setup For Deer
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2022
- The crazy thing is that you are likely ALREADY bowhunting with the best arrow setup for deer, no matter what arrow combination you are using. Light arrow or heavy? You can't go wrong using either for bowhunting deer however, just don't use either as your excuse for not recovering game.
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An old archer here with over 45 years of bowhunting experience. In very early days with 45 lb recurves, Fred Bear 145grain broadheads and heavy aluminum arrows lost deer were rarely from an arrow that didn't completely penetrate the deer. Full penetration was, in most cases, a given. It does bother me to see many TV celebs shooting deer with 60lb plus bows and seeing a majority of the arrow still hanging out of the near side of deer when it runs away. In my day I did shoot 72 lbs with fingers for at least 25 years. I'm now shooting 58 lbs with a release but I still prefer a 145g cut on contact broadhead which I feel does help in those marginal shots that happen to all honest bowhunters no matter how long they hunt. I do agree that a balance must be made. There is no shame in limiting your shooting distance to 20 yards if that is what will help to ensure good ethical kills.
55 years of experience. I've shot just about every bow and arrow set up over the years. Stealth kills more game than anything. 🏹🤙
Stealth gets you there. The arrow kills the animal
Preach it Jeff! Your the man! I’m 36 years of bowhunting whitetail, 60#, 27.5DL. I shoot 10 to 12 each year. I take good shot angles for double lung and focus on exit location with 438gn as my current setup. 10 to 80 yd recovery. 90+% recovery on small properties with no trespassing.
What about public where they get pushed around after injury? Trust a double lung there too? Why not look for the heart?
I’m 44, shot my first deer with a bow at 13. Hooked ever since. I had a rough time early with shooting high over the animal. It changed when I practiced how I hunted, elevated. My Dad set up targets and I shot off our garage. It was invaluable to practice bending at the waist for close shots and seeing how low I needed to aim to make effective shots at multiple distances. Great content as always. Thank you WHS.
48 years deer hunting here but seem like yesterday. What would I say is the most important things in deer hunting would be in this order. Shoot your bow, don't over think it, enjoy your hunt and shoot any legal deer that makes you happy. Good luck to everything season.
The argument isn't so much about having a heavy arrow, but having a high FOC (front of center) percentage, which translates to a heavier setup. The argument comes down to arrow flight, and being able to compensate for deer movement. Even the guys arguing for it will tell you that just about anything will get a complete pass through if you manage to not hit bone. But the reality is that animals sometimes move and sometimes dont offer that perfect quartering away shot. The heavier arrowheads have more mass, and thus don't dull immediately upon hitting bone, and most importantly, don't break. That heavier mass translates to more KE at impact and thus more likelihood of a passthrough should it hit a shoulder or a leg. It should also be noted that these guys also say that 35 yards is about the maximum range you want to use these at because of the significant drop at those longer ranges. So if you're typical shot is 35-60 yards, like i know is for some people, that's not the right set up for you
i like how no one has tried to argue with you yet lol, archery on youtube is a very controversial topic
@@evanhb49 it's just one of those things that people are arguing about without listening to the actual arguments. The Ranch Fairy has a Mechanical/Aerospace Engineering background and explains in great detail the reasoning behind why a heavy arrow setup with a high FOC % is what he suggests *most* whitetail hunters use.
He goes on to talk about how that wobble mid flight is energy being lost and how the arrowhead should be pulling the arrow, not the arrow pushing the arrowhead and the physics behind why that energy transfer distinction is so important. And it's not like the guy is just some engineering theorist. The dude has shot hundreds of animals, mostly hogs, putting these theories and principles to the test.
I agree with you about high FOC%. And high FOC normally means a heavy arrow but there’s a way around that. I’m shooting sirius orion 300’s, 134 grains of inserts, 125 grain head, 18.5% FOC, 430 grains total.
@@garrettyates3570 those arrows have an 8.04 gpi wieght, so that would mean you're shooting like a 20" arrow. Your total arrow weight is higher than that. Closer to 500gr total.
Facts are stubborn things!
I'm sick of not passing though at 393-411gr. so I went to 489gr. with a 100gr. Brass insert! I only shoot 60# @ 28" so I had to. Now I'm at 14% foc & hittin hard!
i shoot for the shoulder all the time with my crossbows and never had to track a deer 41 years of hunting. just saying its you and what your shooting old man rick , god bless all you hunters out there have a great season.lets go brendon..
Great information. Appreciate the heart & attitude. Huge, huge help. This helps settle decisions for my son & I. Well done.
45 years experience with a lot of styles of bows and arrows. Shot placement/balance/speed/arrow weight/tune/sharpness. I sure understood why you emphasized balance.
Like others have mentioned, when I started bow hunting my Dad stressed shot placement and sharp broadheads in the late 90's. We never got into the arrow weight difference controversy, we shot what was recommended and we harvested our share of deer. Now that I'm 62 with shoulder and back issues, I use a Crossbow. Even using them I still stay with what the manufacturer suggests and I do good. I think it's all a matter of preference and amount of money you have to play with different things.
Great Video. I always say be an expert in your own set up, and always keep learning.
Great topic Jeff, starting my 33’rd year of bow hunting, killed deer with fixed and expandable heads, shot placement is the key. I also have taken black bear and caribou, same concept, shot placement.
Heavier for me. With the kinetic energy coming out of my bow, a pass through is a must! Good luck all this season.
Unfortunately KE os only a small part of what creates a pass thru...and a good arrow set up. Otherwise you should be shooting a 1500 grain arrow 😉
Great video, thanks Jeff!
You are very welcome Alex!
As a trad archer the 2 most important things are shot placement, and sharpness of broadhead. Anything past that is for a perfectly tuned arrow with perfect form.
Amen...
True but in the event the animal moves or you accidentally miss your spot the heavy arrows will way overperform the twizzler flapper sticks. Heavy arrows have way more penetration!
@@kalebmcdaniel9147 that's why I said placement. In the event of a unintentional impact you should be shooting a single bevel, 20% FOC, 650g arrow, 4 2 inch straight fletcher. This comes straight from Dr.Ashby.
But just shooting a heavy arrow alone does nothing. It needs to be tuned with proper parameters.
@@ethanalbany exactly, there's no point in just throwing any head on a heavy arrow. I don't know why he acts like people are only advocating for a heavy arrow. So much more is involved
I agree that balance is the key and finding that works for what you want. I shoot close to 600 grains but I have a 31” draw at 74lbs meaning that I have to shoot a 300+spined arrows and those are all heavy GPI. This arrow weight is what flys the best for me with my set up. I have tested/ played with all sorts of arrow weights, tip weights and this is what I found is nice. Yes it is way over kill for deer and bear but it flys true.
450gr is my sweet spot. Shoot the victory ss. Got all my bows tuned to the arrow set up. Prime nexus 2, Mathews v3 31 & rx5. Blew right threw a oryx at 63 yds no problem. I’m sticking with that weight
Thanks for the thoughtful video. A super smart gentleman once wrote "that which is derived from experience can be annulled from experience". I bring that up because even long-term experience can be undone at the next encounter. The guy shooting 300 grain arrows may kill a hundred deer before experiencing a failure - but the single failure annulled all the previous successes.
Thank you I have been saying this for years and have been getting destroyed. I’m glad you had the courage to make this video!!!!!! I have discovers a micro shaft will always beat a heavy fat shaft. Also think of the dropage differences. I lost the largest deer of my life this year by being talked into shooting a heavy setup. I hunt out west and shoot deer at 40 or more yards every year but because my arrow was so heavy I hit the deer to low and got nothing but fat on the brisket bottom of the chest I m going back to skinny arrows and normal weight
I’m shooting a VXR 31.5 @71#. I jumped on the bandwagon for a season and was shooting 660g. After testing yardage drop over the summer, I am back to the Maxima Reds at a total of 468g with fixed blades and shoots so much flatter. I am also debating on swapping mods to 60# (next season of course). Thanks for all the info you put out.
This is the way. Start heavy and work your way down to what shoots best for your bow.
This is my 12th Archery season, so yes, I'm still learning. In my experience, just find the arrows your bow likes/shoots well, and then roll with those. Broadheads can definitely make a difference. I shoot Shwackers personally and have had excellent experiences with them, I also lost the biggest buck I have ever shot last year. I don't understand how I couldn't find him with the enormous amount of blood there was, but it happens. Shot placement is always Key. Even if you catch shoulder bone, it doesn't matter much if you catch the heart as well. Saw that this year.
Whatever you shoot, know your setup. Know your yardage to a t due to relentless practice. Be confident in your setup not because of videos you've watched but because you have the time and knowledge behind it. That's all I got
YUP,. Practice, a LOT, do Penetration "Tests" with your Arrows and Use, a BALANCED Arrow ( Some,.. FOC ) that, "Flies" Well with,.. a very SHARP B-H !
I’m a fan of 475-525 arrows with a good foc that flies good out of my bow.
Just all depends on the poundage of your bow.
This is such good practical information
Thank you very much! Decades proven 😊👍
About time someone got this right 🙏🦌🦌flatter is better less chance for error, so speed and flat shooting are definitely advantages
Everything is flat out to 30 yards. Unless you’re shooting 40-60 yards, yeah gotta go light
I used a 704gr arrow last year. It worked great. I have since lowered that to 516gr. My trajectory is far better. Still more than enough for a pass through. Good vid, Jeff!
Very cool experience Justin!!
Jeff makes a great point on heavy arrows and being off a few yards can be detrimental to high low misses....had this experience last year with with an 8 point that had the high ground on me so i couldnt range him as he was coming straight at me. Had certain trees pre ranged and i estimated him at 30 yards and my arrow sailed high right over his back when he ducked slightly. He was closer to 25 yards and this was with a 560 grain arrow. When i shot my 400 grain arrows all three pins covered a deers vitals at 20 yards. So even if i was off a yard or two it was money.
@@KTMsoldier1988 EZV sight is great for this (and heavier arrows) because it ranges for you. It’s not for everyone and takes some getting used to. I switched to it 2 years ago and I’ll never go back
@@Smithwise i have the EZV sight and i ruined 3 arrows miss judging. Cant afford to be throwing $25 arrows in the trash just practicing. I was decent with it to 30 yards but beyond that my high low misses got too extreme. I practice with a pin sight to 90 yards with 4 inch groups.
I work at a Premier Wi Archery shop, we here this debate 5xs a day. Jeff your spot on! Know one blames themselves for a Poor shot
hell yeah i still got my PSE mach 6! used to shoot at 84 #s slinging 300 grain arrows smacking pie plats at 110 yards! absolute tuning and form is kew for setups like that. im talking bare shaft tuning at 20 yards. any little thing gets changed and you are off the mark. new bows are much more forgiving and reaching remarkable speeds.
Shot placement Over everything. I switch 3 years ago to a 504gr setup with a NAP Spitfire Edge Broadhead. Great penetration. No issues and I like mechanical heads from an accuracy standpoint. 72 lbs @28.5 in draw
True but in the event the animal moves or you accidentally miss your spot the heavy arrows will way overperform the twizzler flapper sticks. Heavy arrows have way more penetration!
@@kalebmcdaniel9147
Blah blah blah. 😎
I have shot a 450 arrow set up for over 10 yrs now first out of my Mathews monster now I will be doin it with my phase 4 29 and I shoot 65lb draw weight 29 in draw and I have no problem with this set up
I’ve noticed I’ve switched arrows over my last couple years went from 5mm axis to the new 4mm axis. I’ve bow hunted for probably 8 years now less experience then a lot of people, but I’ve shot from 400, 500 grains the heaviest and I’ve noticed that from 400-500 grains I get a lot of pass throughs with good shot placement really solid level flight trajectory and kills the deer every time. Not knocking heavier arrows, but if it works for me I’m not changing it, it gets the job done every time and if I miss a deer or lose a deer because a bad shot it’s me as a hunter not the equipment.
I’m all about finding a good balance. 400-500 grain arrow. Perfect arrow flight. Crazy sharp, high integrity arrow/broadhead setups.
That said, I think it was Warb with the Hunting Public who split a deer humorous with a heavy arrow setup. Wasn’t aiming at the bone, but stuff happens.
Also, very few mediums work well for hunting arrows. They’re literally designed to stop projectiles. I’ve had to scrape melted foam off arrows-the friction can melt foam as the arrow passes through and is slowed down.
There was a time not all that long ago were all arrows were heavy arrows...
I’ve been hunting for about 35 years. I will say that in 2011 my Hunting come to an abrupt end until hopefully this year I plan to start back because of a heart attack that I had at that time but I used it and always have used a 2213 arrow with 115 grain 4 blade muzzy 3 inch overdraw shooting 70 pounds, thank God I have some of them left because I think they quit making them Broadhead anyway are used to have the awful habit of pulling into the shoulder thank God that set up blow right through but I have taken lots of deer over the years of my hunting life time with that set up I don’t know the science behind it. All I know is I have to give muzzy some credit on that. Because I have used others Broadhead before I found them and really had a problem. Thank you.
I shoot 350gr arrow overall and have a mechanical on it and it works just fine. Shot placement is key.
This past weekend during nc bow season I had a nice 8pt in an extremely quartered away angle. I put my pin on the edge of his back right ham and my 500 grain arrow with magnus 125grain bh went through a half inch of his back right ham, thru his all his vitals and the arrow broke off with 23 inches of penetration. The deer didn't run 50 yards and was dead on his feet. Best shot I've made in years.
Thank you for pointing out the Ethics. I am done watching a couple very popular youtube channels for that reason, they started preaching not worrying about angles and just blow through the shoulder. I just can not get behind that.
Agreed. Like that famous RUclips couple in Iowa. Just can’t watch em anymore.
Hunt smart. Know your limitations & skills. Remember. Your hunting a living animal. You start there & you’ll enjoy your hunting if your for 30 plus years.
I’ve had pass through’s on smaller heads and long trails, I’ve had arrows only penetrate to get one lung and never find the deer, (wish I could blame the placement, but it was perfectly placed) I’ve had arrows get snapped with half through a deer and run 20 yards. It’s the sweet spot!
I've been playing with several 4mm shafts and the day six 300's at 27.5'', 370gr (prior to insert/head) four fletched helical You can build them to between 550-600gr depending on inserts and heads. Just a bulletproof shaft. They'll buck wind even better than an easton long range 4mm. My issue where I live up in Wyoming is wind. A heavier/higher FOC arrow will buck wind better.. bottom line. I'm more concerned with drift than drop.
I went to voltage small diameter carbon arrows 29 inch 305 grain so I'm shooting 100 grain rockey fixed blades 405 grain all together I shot a 52lb martain begal bow it shoots so straight. thanks for all the info.
I found I love my rip tko at 468 grains with 200 grains in the front. 28 inch draw at 70 pounds. Pins are close and hits hard. Looking forward to testing it. 40 grains lighter than my last years arrow
I like the CX Maxima reds too. Between heavy vs “Balanced” I’d rather my arrow Zip through opposed to punch through with whitetails. Having discipline also works in conjunction with your broadhead choice.Thx for the upload Jeff. Happy Hunting 2022 bud!🏹
Those maxima reds are great arrows. They are some of the most accurate and consistent shafts made.
@@halfstep67 I concur they are excellent arrows. They’re like the Hornady of arrows
You like Chinese made arrows.
@@Life-of-Bluegrass_Music Carbon Express arrows are made in Korea, not China. Carbon Express is the largest carbon arrows manufacturer in the world. I have a Spot-Hogg hooter shooter and have tested a lot of different arrows. The Carbon Express Maxima reds are some of the most consistent and accurate carbon arrows made. They are very close to Easton A/C/C arrows accuracy and consistency.
You would probably be shocked to know what archery products you think are made in the USA are actually made in China. I have an extensive list of companies that once was USA companies that have sold out to large outdoor groups and their manufacturing has been moved to China.
I was 22 when started shooting bow I'm 43 and i believe shot placement is key. I've never been a mechanical broadhead guy myself but i would try them. I shoot 52lbs with 500gr Gold Tip and a magnus stinger 2 blade broadhead or even a Fred Bear 2 blade. Never had an issue as long as I've been putting shots on target in the boiler room.
I agree with your set up. When I started bow hunting later in life, I was shooting higher poundage with an Innerlock 3 blade and an arrow weighing in the lower 400's. If I did my job I was getting pass throughs no problem. As I aged, I had to drop poundage for accurate shots especially in the colder Northeast weather later in the season. As I did this I tried to compensate by reducing my arrow weight in an effort to keep my speed up. This ended up causing two problems the first being erratic arrow flight, so I went to mechanicals. Arrow flight became acceptable but penetration became an issue. No longer did I have pass throughs on broadside shots. I even when to a hybrid that the author of this video was shooting at that time. Still no pass through. I started follow the Ranch Fairy and settled on a 515 grain total weight arrow with good FOC and a cut on contact broadhead. I'm shooting 53lbs with a 29" arrow and the difference is dramatic. I no longer have a 50 yard pin on my set up but I never used it anyway. It was an extra if I needed a follow up shot. My arrows now sink much further into the target and I get pass throughs on deer. I advise everyone to do their own research as you can buy a couple heavier arrows and borrow a cut on contact head from a friend and conduct your own research during the summer. Remember to keep your FOC up and try a 4 fletch if needed. Nock tuning helps also.
@@charliebelle6693 I like your style. I shoot 30" draw at 70lbs and get away with a little bit more weight than you on the front (560 grain arrow). My bow is soooo quiet and shoots like butter. I ll never shoot at deer past 40 yards too. Deer hardly flinch when I hit them. Arrow whistles right through them and they have no idea what happened
i started late in life as well, in the 90's with a very cheap Fred bear bass pro specials. maybe spent 250 on it. it was to see if I liked it. Well after handful of yrs and killing many deer in the Allegany mountains with a stand 15yrds from a dbl man stand, i started testing ADC ( arrow drop compensation) with a good range finder and quality foam target. 20 to 25 yds. was pretty significant drop. after 30 it just was too much for me to feel ethical about it. Used all kinds of arrows carbon fiber, steel, aluminum, wrapped you name it.. SO i feel in love with bow hunting and upgraded to a then 2008 top of the line Bowtech. I stay with same grain tips on all arrows(125 filed and mechanical which i have never had an issue with killing with those) set a new foam target at 25 yds. and instead of the drop i was judging pentation incase of deer movement after release. The Fred bear bow sounded like a truck door being slammed.. lol. the Bowtech is silent almost. So long story short, the Eason 340 FMJ 5mm by far had massively more pentation. To the point of i could not practice at 20 yds. or i had pass thru and the cost well that hurts when they are gone. So when i backed up to max about 45 yds. i felt comfortable with to make ethical shot and feel very confident upon release. 50 i was accurate but not confident enough even after spending 1 hour a day starting in June shooting 100 arrows a day, 30 yrd in back yard and would get 10 out of 10 damn all bullseye. .
So i believe what Jeff said about knowing your equipment, the limitations, YOUR limitations (pride removed from that big balls contest kind of thing) and do multiple weeks of testing on many different set ups with arrow tips and weights and even construction of them. Bow set at 68lbs I am pretty sure. Those thin FMJ arrows really penitrate deeply (that's what she said} sorry had to throw that in, for me it makes a difference. I dont take frontal shots or hard quartering because of tracking and ethical reasons for my taste. I say shoot lots like many have said and you will find what you like.
I really like the Magnus stingers 2 bladed heads. They are made by a great company. They tune and fly great. They fly quietly and have awesome penetration. They are durable and affordable. I am going to try the Magnus stinger killer bee this year and see if I like them as well as the stingers.
One of the best perks to shooting a deer with the Mag stingers is that a lot of the time, the deer doesn't realize it was shoot and doesn't run off. They just stand around for a bit then fall over.
@@charliebelle6693 Great news Chsrlie. I'm 56 & I have a 30" draw & shoot a nice Bow @ 64 lbs. However I've noticed over the last 10 years or so that killing deer wasn't hard. The hard part was recovering them. I remembered back in the early 90's when my 1st five deer were all passthroughs & the combined tracking of those 5 deer was 90 yards.
What changed the most was the amount of deer & the proximity to people those deer were. We have some very thick cover & not many hunters. I needed to find a system like the one u described. It started about 5 years ago with a Victory VAP TKO around 515 grains. Now I have an upgraded 3 blade head on a 250 spine Blackeagle X-Impact. About 22% FOC & a weight of 535. It's more of a missile system rather than an arrow & broadhead. Incredible accuracy & durability so u get a quick-kill & then u pull it out of ground to shoot again & again. Glad to hear things r going better for u sir.
It’s not just about the weight of the arrow that blows through the shoulder.. it’s the complete set up with a single bevel broadhead that splits the bone by using its own pressure against itself to continue to spin through the bone. Use the “overkill” arrows, what would you want to under-kill?
Minnesota bow season starts today. Game on!! Huntcast has 100% day with the temp drop Thursday…..🤪 delicious!
That's my opening day 😁
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Yes! Mine too 👍 was just thinking of that wind from the north. 🤔
Me too!
Wisconsin opener today. Western Wisconsin here
In the 70s we didn't worry about arrows we didn't have much to choose from we tuned awer bows to what we had
You should do a video on checking screws on sights ,quiver and rest🤔Wondered why my bow was off?My trophy taker rest cable had stretched.East fix.But very frustrating..
Oh boy...something you can take for granted easily!
I believe arrow placement is the most important thing. I took a 40 yard frontal shot last season from the ground and the doe only went 20 yards. I was shooting 50 lbs and 350 grain total with 100 grain mechanical Mussy.
Something to consider is with light arrows you put a lot more energy back into the limbs of the bow
Not if you reduce your poundage. Its about balancing your whole setup. But if you do go light, then ofcourse that means you will have to get closer shots
My dad still shoots old aluminum arrows. Their like broom sticks. The damn target moves back 5 inches after a arrow hits it. My modern fast bow doesn't budge it.
I'm new to archery this year. My shot placement is of absolutely no concern.
What does freak me out is all this penetration talk. I feel I'm way in over my head on it. This type of content definitely helps.
I've found over the years I prefer something in the 10 grains per inch range with a 125 tip with the speed of today's bows I like a little more weight and a little more seperation between sight pins they tend to blurr together if they're too close I've also found an arrow somewhere in the mid to low 400s tends to be around the peak ke for me lighter or heavier it drops and I still end up with a bow speed in the 270s - 280s which i think is ideal for hunting
I've been listening to some very good podcasts on this subject with Bill from iron will. He does a lot of fantastic testing and makes awesome broadheads. I would recommend looking him up if your seriously looking into this topic.
Foc only changes 1 thing; whether the broadhead pulls itself with the arrow or the arrow pushes the broadhead. Try to push a deer out of the woods, then try to pull it out(without a cart). Which seems to be more efficient? That’s a gross exaggeration but, that is the argument for a heavy arrow setup.
Shot two deer with rage broadheads and they didn't expand at all. Found both of them eventually. But had a complete pass through with a rage and had zero expansion of the broadhead. Was like shooting a field point. Also had rage cut 4 inch holes in deer. But not worth the risk.
I've never had one not open and I've been shooting rage for like 15 years now since they came out with their 3 blade. Been shooting the chisel tip since those dropped. I've bent blades never broken tho. And thats with blowing through both shoulders on a bad shot because it was at 10 yards and lost where I was on the deer. I'm not saying that it never happens but that hasn't been my experience. I mean till this year I've been shooting a chill r at 70# since it dropped. And my arrows weigh about 385gr. And yes my processor will verify the double shoulder shot.
I never had one not open , They have 2 types of collars , One for bows and one for crossbow , My son had issues with tri pans, I use chisel tips or Hyperdermic ,
My son also had real bad issues with grim reapers , One or both sides would open mid flight , Those don't use collars
I've seen video of Waddell shooting an expandable and they bounced off a rib on a perfect shot. The seek one guys also had that happen to them with rage. You want to talk ethics, pretty unethical to me to shoot something that takes shot placement out of the equation if it can bounce off ribs.
@@ep3389 been shooting them for well over 10 years 3 deer a year average and never had a problem
I have been shooting bows since 2008 and I follow and use a set up from the ranch fairy. You can find him on RUclips as well. Very experienced hunter that DOSE preach and teach heavy set ups. HOWEVER he also teaches proper broad heads and tuning of your equipment.
I like to stay between 420 and 450 grains for total arrow weight at 62 lbs .I have tried heavier arrows and to me its overkill for whitetail deer and you dont get as flat shooting arrow as a heavier weight arrow.I only use solid steel fixed blade broads for deer.
Check out Arron warbritton shooting a big buck last season. Hit a stick and deflected into the point of the humorous on the shoulder and went straight through. Shooting a super sharp single bevel with an arrow flying true can get through bone. It’s been done but not saying that’s an ideal shot
What about the quartering too shot at 10 yards he put on an elk and never found it.
I’m shooting an elite terrain 70 29.5 inch draw right at 299 fps a VAP TKO arrow with 50 grain outsert 100 grain 207 shwacker mechanical 15 to 17 grain lighted nock whole set up is between 455 to 460 total arrow weight never check FOC but I shot a 2 year old doe last high shoulder went through both including spine… my broadhead was 4 inches through the opposite shoulder. 41 yard shot I’m confident in penetration with my set up after that
All bows come with specs that give you the maximum performance. Stick with that an you can't go wrong.
Match the broadhead with the recommended weight for your bow and shaft size on draw. Length of shaft will also change the bows peak performance too.
I actually go with a 29" draw, and cut my shaft to 29, an a 1/8th. Add the broad head and it clears the rest. On my compound..
I hit a doe in the spine many years ago with a rocket sidewinder broadhead and it went through the spine all the way to the blades. It wasn't intentional but it penetrated and killed her right there. I always had a well tuned setup and was mostly a mathews single cam guy. Shot a smallish buck through both shoulder blades from the ground at about 19 yards....deer went 10 ft.
I shoot a heavy arrow about 18.5 % forward of center. I've never regretted it. In regards to penetrating bone, I routinely practice with other hunters because I have several broadhead targets and they don't. I shoot a 60 lb bow and usually penetrate 6-8 inches deeper than my neighbor shooting the 70 lb. As far as hitting bone, the best example I ever had was an arrow that passed through a rib, and double lunged, then shattered The leg bone on the opposite side. Just my experience.
I shot nice deer 65# 550 grain magnus broadhead. Aprox 20 yards double lung edged 1 rib busted through another and top of shoulder blades. Complete pass through. Ran 30 yards. Say what you want but more momentum will bust through some bones. Broadhead stuck n ground and still semi sharp. No mechanical nor most fixed blade broadheads will hold up.
Excited and sad I found the buck I was hunting but not in the way I wanted I think it died from ehd it was a 13 point 159 6/8 inch whitetail!
I'm pulling 55 pounds 28" draw length shoot about 610 grains with a single bevel broadhead up front and I shot 2 deer last year broke the off side humerus in 3 places and then punched through the scapula on the entry side of the 2nd one both buried to fletch and neither deer made it over 70 yards
Lighter arrow with good foc!
The reminiscing was fun, my first set up, Ben Pearson 45# very short recurve with MicroFlight Nine fiberglass arrows and Satellite 100 glue on broadheads. I was 13 years old, shot my bow everyday at a straw bale and a paper plate. I could hit it from anywhere in the yard (mostly under 30yds). Thinking about shooting those logs at a regular bale of straw, my arrows wouldn’t pass thru until the bale started to degrade. Thanks for the look back
I’m shooting a 585 grain TOW vap ss with a 200 grain single bevel razor sharp. I switched after bad run in with two different mechanics and will never go back.
Ive only been bow hunting 10 years....I was mainly gun and crossbow (due to injuries) so when I started bow hunting I relied on my father and brother who were life time bow hunters. I also went to a small bow shop owner who doesnt let you leave his shop until he is confident you know how to shoot your bow. You rarely get that in a big bow shop or box store. Experience is immeasurable. So is customer service....I wont go to another bow shop.
Jeff if you have a camera that produced a low glow infrared if it is up 6ft in a tree is it going to alarm them or will they not pay any attention 2 it
This video actually cured my anxiety. I have a short draw, 26.5". Maxed out my Hoyt Torrext XT to 68LBs. It has been thousands of arrows, and I checked my weight. it is 60LBS. I am more accurate at 50-60 yards. I shot through paper, still a bullet hole. would my bow be more efficient if I twisted the strings to 70lbs and back down the limbs?
ok fixed or mechanical broached?
Shoulder shots are ethical when you can bust that shoulder and still completely pass through the vitals and collect your deer 20 yards away. Heavy arrows for the win. Lighter arrows work too, just stay away from that front shoulder.
Unfortunately a shoulder shot is only ethical with a firearm...
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I have been culling deer in urban areas for close to 20 years. I am positive I have killed way more deer than you ever will in your life with a variety of weapons. When using archery equipment in highly populated areas, I use a 815 grain arrow with a 300 grain broadhead out of a 75 lbs bow because 1) my shots are always 35 and in 2) I purposely want to shoot and break the shoulder so they can not run into a busy parking lot or someone's front yard and 3) I want 100% pass throughs every time so if they happen to make it to a parking lot or a yard, Bambi does not have an arrow stuck in them. You say it is unethical, but I do not think you have ever actually tried hunting for whitetail with a heavy (700 +) high FOC arrow have you? In which case, you have no frame of reference. I have used light arrows in the past and I know what works. Heavy arrows for the win.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I am in agreement with Michael on this one. Shoulder shots are totally ethical with the right bow and arrow set up. Also, I still have my old camo hunters 2317's and they are 29" and with a 100 grain head they only weigh 525. So I am calling BS on your 600 to 650 grain statement that starts around the 2:40 mark. I am going to bet you have never shot arrow over 650 grains. You should do a 650 + high FOC build just to take a quartering towards shot with that shoulder in the way of the heart and see what happens. You might end up eating crow.
I believe the rule of thumb is at least 5 grains of arrow weight per 1 pound of draw weight ( 60 lbs dw = 300 gr. Arrow)
I had 1 pin from.0/30 yard and from 20 to.30 I was an inch high at 20
I’m shooting 626 total arrow weight. I have a 200 grain insert and a 150 grain Magnus Stinger Buzzcut in the front. I like my system and will probably stay with it for awhile.
450-550 is great. And people aiming at bone is people misunderstand what people say. Most people who use heavy arrows can aim forward and don’t have to hold off the shoulder and if the worst happens you are still going’s to be ok. I think a lot of people misunderstand a lot of what they hear on videos
4mm long range axis arrows with 50gr outsert 100 grain g5 13 percent foc 450 grain , super fast
Hey it’s opening week in Ct and I usually hunt acorns the first couple weeks but I simply cannot find acorns! There’s deer but I’m finding it hard finding a good spot while trying to leave my rut spots. Any tips/advice thanks!
Jeff , i m 54 my dad started me hunting at about 5 years old starting on wood chucks chipmunks with a single shot 22 and move in to bow with my grandfather help at the age of 7 or 8 the biggest thing they they always stressed was never point them at any thing you don’t intend to kill and always pick your shot you only got one and you didn’t want to wound an animal and have it suffer.THe problem we today is everyone has become a followers this guy shot a big buck with this setup that the only setup will work now stupid everyone out there should shoot the setup that they are confident in shooting at the distance they plan to shoot. You only generally get one shot make it count don’t be a follower be yourself . On to the important things I want to thank you for Sharing your Knowledge with us . I have changed property from all night time pictures to late morning and early afternoon pictures last year I seen the buck I was after 3 times in day light maybe I will get him this year before the only pics I got was one a year at 11 at night your Strategies really work thanks Dave
I think Tom Miranda would be a good resource too. I think he’s completed the North American grand slam with a bow too
I know a guy who shot clear through the leg bone on a deer lol and earlier that day he also saw a black panther playing with a Sasquatch 😂
After dropping over 100 hogs and a dozen deer the only thing I've noticed from heavier arrows besides the ridiculous amount of drop is if I made a bad shot I got the tiniest bit more penetration but not enough to make it worth it I've had more misses with heavy vs the amount of pass throughs with properly balanced arrows and trying to never be more than 20 yards 25 max with a perfect broadside
I'm 42. I've been arrowing whitetails since age 12. I've used every arrow setup imaginable. I have tested the penetration difference between lighter arrow setups, mainly by altering the FOC. There is very little difference at all between any of them as far as depth of penetration. I've loaded some of these arrows up to the maximum that the spine would allow. At a certain point, the really heavy setups start penetrating a decent amount less. But even a decent amount isn't much. An inch or two. I've found that out of my 65 lb bow, an arrow weight of about 460 grains is about perfect for deer. Plenty of speed, penetrates fine. But to each their own.
I've found the same. But a person's draw length alone adds weight to that setup. I have a 30" draw so somebody with a 27" draw will be shooting probably about 40 to 50 grains lighter. Like Jeff said the bows r much more efficient. I've found shooting 3D targets from a 🌳 with my current setup @ 64 lbs that my field points r hanging out the backside on every single shot. I practice @ different angles & such is the case. The most important thing is to tune your arrow to the bow & if u can shoot 50 arrows @ a line like a string hanging down over the vitals on a target. That u r getting great arrow flight w/o arrows going to the left or right is the same goal that a good golfer strives for. Now u need to do that up in a 🌳 w/o giving away your position to an animal. If that animal reacts to your presence then problems will follow.
So many r trying to avoid that shoulder area & r shooting too close to the middle of a deer. Others r simply taking the quartering away shot for granted. If the hardest part of the animal is after your arrow has lost energy trying to go through the animal then the likelihood that u will get a passthrough can't be taken for granted. It all comes down to experience & focusing more on where your arrow exits rather than just the point of impact.
@@josephtreadlightly5686 I agree with your statement. I also believe that too many people are trying to overcomplicate the whole heavy / light arrow issue. Any bow made today, or over the last few decades, are fine for deer. So are the arrows, provided, as you stated, that they are tuned to the bow. All of them and any of the broadheads, will work fine. We can't forget that Indians killed them with a stick and string for thousands of years. Their arrows were tipped with stones. Haha.
@@MollyDogg1234 only difference is that property lines have made this difficult for us where many years ago it wasn't an issue. I lost a buck like 7 years ago opening morning of gun season. I made a great shot on camera & the arrow kept going & I never found it. The 🦌 was so hurt he couldn't do anything but stumble. But he went 50 yards & dropped on the property line. The son of a clown that never shot @ anything w/o putting 5 shots into it put 1 slug into it. His father went over to him while I climbed down the 🌳 & went home. They never knew I was there but minutes after that I was talking to the father @ their place. He told me his son got a deer & later after I showed him the video he admitted that his son took a buck. They moved that year about 10 miles away. But for 15 years they wrecked many deer seasons by surrounding deer in a bedding area & never firing a shot. That swamp used to be my grandfathers old cattle Tamarac swamp. I had to change since every area I hunt is the same. U can put a deer down quickly w/o spine shooting it but u have to be close & wait for the perfect angle. Not recommended for those who just r trying to draw blood or slow an animal down. 🤔
Shooting a manufactured target is no good for penetration testing. The foam is designed to stop an arrow no matter the weight. There will be very little difference in penetration. The friction coefficient is designed to stop them all. That’s the only reason anybody buys a target. Animals are much different. That’s why an arrow stops 3” into a target and can zip right through an animal. A slight difference in foam, even a quarter inch, will make a HUGE difference through skin, meat, and bone.
@@ethanwigley6185 you're probably correct. I just think the whole heavy / light arrow topic, as well as what kind of bow, ECT, to use, is overrated. Indians done it with a stick and string with stones for points. As long as we get close enough to our critter, and are fairly accurate, just about any setup is probably just fine
Broadhead style matters so much in this debate. I have had some terrible experiences with very well placed shots using the rage hypodermic. I usually take 10-12 deer a year, most with a bow, and most of the time, it is a pass through with doe and smaller bucks. The big boys are built different and most mechanicals eat up energy to deploy the blades.
I switched to razor sharp single bevel this season and I am thrilled with the results so far. Slightly heavier arrow, just over 500gr, but the force needed to push that point into the animal is minimal. I’ll stay with cut on contact blades for the foreseeable future.
I agree that hunters need to understand what they trade for speed, power, KE, etc…. But always remember what kills the deer is the shot placement and the broadhead… it better be razor sharp and hold up to bones (even ribs damage cheap blade)
Yep. I’ll never go back from single bevel.
Yeah I've seen the performance difference on a single bevel compared to a mechanical is just honestly incomparable. There's also, in my opinion, a lot that people are going to say from just how long they've been doing things. Some people don't like changing it all so they're going to stick with what they've been doing and just swear by it as if the idea of them changing from it is some sort of representation of them not being good enough personally because that's what they chose. It's really weird but I find some of these arguments that you hear, like what's been said on the video, like shot placement being necessary is a bit of a red herring. You can kill a deer with a 22 with proper shop placement and people still use larger caliber rifle rounds. Also when I hear the argument that you don't need that much weight to kill a deer it's a little reminiscent of hearing people tell me I don't need 30 rounds in my magazine for self-defense. I'm not saying anyone here is of course anti-gun but it bears the same fallacy, overkill is a funny word. Also the trajectory is still weird to me too. I use the ezv bow sight which doesn't move like sliders and I'm able to hit out to 60 yards with my arrow setup at 620 grains. I could make it lighter but I like that weight of a broadhead and that extra weight up front. I also don't think the trajectory matters much when you're shooting at deer in an open AG field or food plot. There's usually not much in the way of the arrow to worry about it hitting anything so having to change your angle to shoot doesn't matter to me. I know everybody's different and I'm really not bad-mouthing or trashing lighter setups. I'd just rather be able to have a higher chance of the weight compensating for something going wrong during that shot in case my shop placement or everything else isn't perfect. If something wrong happens with my shot I think the heavier one would do much better in that situation than a lighter one, but more so cut on contact broadheads rather than mechanicals.
I know the video that was spoken about. It was a convincing discussion. There was a lot more to that video than arrow weight. That person needs to go watch it again cuz they missed the broader picture
Once I went to heavy arrows, Ive had less deer jump the string because it makes your bow much quieter. I think to many hunters loose deer because they are afraid of the shoulder and aim to far back. I have no problem shooting through both front legs if I had to. Also, at whitetail distances (40 and under) you will hardly notice a difference if you added 100 grains.
Deer jump the string due to the sound of the arrow coming at them. Not the sound of the bow.
@@pik2490 man idk about that. I guess it's impossible for us to know. But I don't thibk it's them hearing the arrow. The bow going off is way way louder then arrow flying. Either way they are fast and its kinda mind blowing.
@@marijuonko7092 do some googling. Get back to me on that one.
My old 400 grain setup had all 3 of my pins covering the vitals of a deer at 20 yards....now that i have gone to a 560 grain setup high low misses are much more common if you are off a few yards and i have experienced this first hand.
@@pik2490 just because Google says something doesn't mean it's true. It don't matter. There's no possible way to even tell what causes them to duck. We can't ask them. So either of us actually know. All speculation anyway
God Bless America 🇺🇸
The scapula is pretty thin.But that leg bone will bust up your stuff..
So true D!
Archers are chasing the heavier setup right now; with blazing sharp fixed heads because they work. Most are hitting that sweet spot with today's new bow, a 5-550gr arrow, and a single bevel head. If you combine this with good shot placement you'll be good to go.
I just want to start by saying that I have been bow hunting with compounds and traditional equipment since 1978 yes I'm old I remember shooting heavier aluminum Arrows with wensel Woodsman Broadhead and Feathers off of my compound and that's when I realized how much penetration potential that it really held. I know who you're referring to about shooting animals in the shoulder and he does not preach shoot them in the shoulder his whole thing is what if you make a bad shot and that's commendable the other thing I would like to touch on his there's really not that much difference between shooting a 500 grain arrow and a 300 grain Arrow in trajectory but even if there were tell me how many people go out in the field today without a rangefinder and how many compound Shooters hunt without an adjustable sight? It really is as simple as adjusting your sights for a little more drop there's nothing more to it and then you're armed with a better penetrating Arrow if you happen to hit shoulder I've done test myself and there is a huge difference in penetration between a 400 grain arrow and a 550 grain Arrow just some food for thought
Only had 2 bad shots over the years, never have I blamed my bow or the arrows or tips...lol. Both of the bad shots were bad judgment and not taking my time on the shot...
Look up Ed Ashby and his studies on high FOC arrows. Decades of studies and very interesting stuff
For the past couple of years I've been shooting 70 lbs at a 31 inch draw, arrow roughly 500 grains getting around 285 fps. Last year I had a scenario where I was hunting from the ground and I had a buck walk in, I found it difficult to draw my bow without making a bunch of movement. 70 lbs is nothing when you're standing in front of a target but in a realistic hunting scenario I feel that it would be very beneficial pulling less weight. I'm considering dropping my weight to 60 lbs for this season, but I don't want my speed to tank. How light is too light for hunting arrows? I use cut on contact fixed heads and I will keep it to roughly 15% FOC, and I'm considering dropping my arrow weight to 400-450 grains.
I shoot a 585gn, 31" draw @ 70lbs single bevel, most shot 25 yards and in. No issues here.
Unfortunately your bow is a lot more capable than your arrow setup...
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 too each their own
I was shooting 2317 with 160 grain thunderhead back in the early 90s.Out of 82#sWhy🤔No common sense.Now 250 Maxima red with 100 grain muzzy.And I still kill dirt with 62#.My 48th season.And man have things changed😉
So true D! Well, we didn't have a lot of choices back then either! That setup I talked about was in 1992 😊 Killed a nice bear with it!
You need to do more research on heavy arrows. I’ll be happy to show you my arrows punching through bones. Just because you can use a light arrow doesn’t mean you should.
Unfortunately heavy arrows are a huge fad...and lead to a lot of wounded game due to poor duped souls thinking their heavy arrows can break thru bone. Also due to a huge loss in trajectory and guestimation errors. Do some research yourself...check out Joel Maxfield's research on Facebook and other smart, highly seasoned bowhunters.
You will change your tune if you do some research and keep an open mind...
Bingo..Get the most out of the least!