The Siege of Osaka was in 1615. If you were 20 years old at that battle, you would be 1625-30, 1635-40, 1645-50, 1655-60 1665-70, 1675-80, 1685-90. Any document written in that period would theoretically have access to first hand accounts of combat experience. Also some of the most seminal documents we have for the Sengoku period are from the Edo period like Koyo Gunkan. People who complain that the Edo period documents are too far removed from the Sengoku period are clueless and have no idea how history or historiography works.
@@Lostboy811 any medieval chronicle or document regardless of national origin is going to have romance of some sort of another. I'm sick and tired of people making this argument as if they don't know how to separate eulogy from facts. It's the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water. You look at any warrior group in history from Vikings to Crusaders, they are going to be romanticized about. Look at all the Viking cosplay and fandom we have today, it arguably surpasses Samurai popularity.
@dwl3006 Gave you a subscribed because I am too used to people who do the you are wrong calling me names like idiot or worse. I used to do historical research (looking up information and doing everything from trying to date it and fact checking it against other documents from historical or peer reviewed papers. Didn't write the papers just compiled the information for others to reference.), so I am familiar with what he was trying to say but felt like he needed to clarify that while the person was writing it may have certain factors that can determine the accuracy of the document. Who the person is if known, if it's a copy of the original document and if the transcriber is known and how many different transcriber versions (if it's a copy of a copy like that) if the original was done by the author of the document or written by a scribe. If you can verify what is in the document with other sources. Even partially finding supporting evidence. Sometimes you can only get a highly likely due to majority of evidence supporting it but not at the time but say official version of the event or second hand documents. Yes it is more difficult than what I have just described but generally never take historical documents at face value. The dating is even more important you can use the time the person was alive if author is known or the date but not always because in some documents you may find wrong dates if a person mentioned a event on a certain date or even the date of the document some people see 1632 date but fail to remember that copies are dated on the day and transcriber that copied it. Sometimes people will ever confuse the transcriber as the author. You can date the events in the document, the date of the paper and ink, even use the language structure and words to help date it ( just like English has changed so too does other languages), and one way is the location it was found if a place was built from a date and stopped being used by a certain date (a lot of documents were torn and stuffed in walls in Japanese houses for insulation so a lot were dated that way.)
Imagine Musashi's "Gorin-no-Sho" along with its precursors being panned because it's Edo period literature. Your points are well taken! Another point to consider - these various translations (e.g., the Yagyu Family Records) were NOT produced for public consumption, but rather for the practitioners of the particular ryuha! It's a point that I emphasize with my students.
Fascinating, love these videos Antony, I enjoy hearing you speak. I liked that bit about your grandfather embellishing war stories to entertain the grandchildren. So I see you're a metal head. I will see if I can find good metal songs you've never heard of but maybe you've heard them already lol
Yeah Sengoku nearing the end. Wouldn't it be better to focus on the source, their connection to the region and other notables rather than Edo? Reading the history of kendo it is, place, dojo, connections and insights that means more than war years or postwar kendo. Been doing a bit of reading of early vs. late Middle English and the like, and the wider context is far more important than the larger historical labels. Cut down to the bone and there is more going on than the historical labels.
Sounds like japanese history is time immemorial phrase of time used to refer to a point of time in the past that was so long ago that people have no knowledge or memory of it. "markets had been held there from time immemorial"
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The Siege of Osaka was in 1615. If you were 20 years old at that battle, you would be 1625-30, 1635-40, 1645-50, 1655-60 1665-70, 1675-80, 1685-90. Any document written in that period would theoretically have access to first hand accounts of combat experience. Also some of the most seminal documents we have for the Sengoku period are from the Edo period like Koyo Gunkan. People who complain that the Edo period documents are too far removed from the Sengoku period are clueless and have no idea how history or historiography works.
I think it's more on the romance of samurai. People at that time remembered it in a better light than it should be
@@Lostboy811 any medieval chronicle or document regardless of national origin is going to have romance of some sort of another. I'm sick and tired of people making this argument as if they don't know how to separate eulogy from facts. It's the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water. You look at any warrior group in history from Vikings to Crusaders, they are going to be romanticized about. Look at all the Viking cosplay and fandom we have today, it arguably surpasses Samurai popularity.
@@Lostboy811 there is practically no such thing as medieval or ancient history without at least some romance and embellishment.
@@dwl3006 I was just saying that the person made it seem like it was accurate due to them living in that period
@dwl3006 Gave you a subscribed because I am too used to people who do the you are wrong calling me names like idiot or worse. I used to do historical research (looking up information and doing everything from trying to date it and fact checking it against other documents from historical or peer reviewed papers. Didn't write the papers just compiled the information for others to reference.), so I am familiar with what he was trying to say but felt like he needed to clarify that while the person was writing it may have certain factors that can determine the accuracy of the document. Who the person is if known, if it's a copy of the original document and if the transcriber is known and how many different transcriber versions (if it's a copy of a copy like that) if the original was done by the author of the document or written by a scribe. If you can verify what is in the document with other sources. Even partially finding supporting evidence. Sometimes you can only get a highly likely due to majority of evidence supporting it but not at the time but say official version of the event or second hand documents. Yes it is more difficult than what I have just described but generally never take historical documents at face value.
The dating is even more important you can use the time the person was alive if author is known or the date but not always because in some documents you may find wrong dates if a person mentioned a event on a certain date or even the date of the document some people see 1632 date but fail to remember that copies are dated on the day and transcriber that copied it. Sometimes people will ever confuse the transcriber as the author. You can date the events in the document, the date of the paper and ink, even use the language structure and words to help date it ( just like English has changed so too does other languages), and one way is the location it was found if a place was built from a date and stopped being used by a certain date (a lot of documents were torn and stuffed in walls in Japanese houses for insulation so a lot were dated that way.)
Imagine Musashi's "Gorin-no-Sho" along with its precursors being panned because it's Edo period literature. Your points are well taken! Another point to consider - these various translations (e.g., the Yagyu Family Records) were NOT produced for public consumption, but rather for the practitioners of the particular ryuha! It's a point that I emphasize with my students.
Fascinating, love these videos Antony, I enjoy hearing you speak. I liked that bit about your grandfather embellishing war stories to entertain the grandchildren. So I see you're a metal head. I will see if I can find good metal songs you've never heard of but maybe you've heard them already lol
Thanks for the video 👊🏻
Yeah Sengoku nearing the end. Wouldn't it be better to focus on the source, their connection to the region and other notables rather than Edo? Reading the history of kendo it is, place, dojo, connections and insights that means more than war years or postwar kendo.
Been doing a bit of reading of early vs. late Middle English and the like, and the wider context is far more important than the larger historical labels. Cut down to the bone and there is more going on than the historical labels.
tru history👹
Sounds like japanese history is
time immemorial
phrase of time
used to refer to a point of time in the past that was so long ago that people have no knowledge or memory of it.
"markets had been held there from time immemorial"