The speed is more noticeable when they are running late. The ability to get back on schedule is impressive. The old trains always used to struggle in comparison
I kid you not I was watching your old Merseyrail video about shortest/longest journey times and I wondered "Maybe the new trains are faster"... here we are lol
As you said, the timetable is unlikely to have been changed to reflect the higher acceleration. Others have also mentioned defensive driving (more gentle acceleration and braking). I thought I would also add that the trains may be limited in how much current they can draw by the 750V DC system - though this would depend on the power infrastructure connected to the route.
The Class 507 and Class 508 will always be remembered. And the Class 777 are very nice trains. Perhaps Merseyrail should order more Class 777s and to operate as 8-Car on the Northern City Line and Wirral Line. If Stadler was to manufacture more Class 777s for Merseyrail.
Seeing whether your train is faster or not is quite a roulette. At the end of the day, you still reach your destination, if the 777 doesn't end up breaking down again (swear that happens every time im on the Merseyrail Network) P.S the PEPs are such a throwback. I'll miss them dearly
I suspect that even if the new trains are faster (Which they likely are by a small margin), the timetabling hasn't been changed to match the increase in speed, so it still takes the same amount of time. Also that slower driver was definitely just going slower to get back on schedule as they were running early.
i disagree with the timetabling argument. The time is made up depending on how long to hold the train at the platform. It departs on the scheduled time. This is how the timetabling works. The driver just needs to get from station A to station B in ideally as little time as possible. This also doesn't really mean much when its just a single stop journey. If the timetabled time is 1 minute or 1 hour, still going to take roughly the same amount of time. The test would eliminate these factors too as it was just moving time, not doors close to doors close which is how efficiency is measured. If they are running late, they know this by the fact that they haven't yet departed at the scheduling time. If the scheduled time is 13:30, and they depart 13:31 this is a late service. That being said, there is such a huge overhead now because the drivers cant run services to an efficient schedule so they may be inconsistent to how
@@jakewynn Yes however, if the timetable is more relaxed, the drivers will take it a slower pace because they have no reason to go quicker. A driver wouldn't go full force for no reason, seeing as its less comfortable for everyone involved. That's my thoughts at least.
@Soj_89 Tbh, I genuinely think the one driver departed early (which they shouldn't do because it's incredibly unfair on passengers) so that they could drive slower. It will most likely mean a slower approach to the station to make it easier as opposed to slower acceleration or top speed. Still doesn't justify new trains in my opinion. I hate it when money is wasted and dare I say it boring replacements come in.
@@jakewynn Woah woah woah, the old class 507s were 37 years old, they were due for an upgrade. And the 777s have been a very successful and good upgrade to them. They're not boring, they're just more modern and accessible. Its not money wasted, maybe the 507s could've survived 5 more years, but still, they were overdue an upgrade, and that's what they've got.
The train acceleration doesn’t really affect the speed since the timetable is still the same and the drivers will accelerate or decelerate slower to give a smoother ride, unless they are late since they want to make up time.
Though I'll miss the PEPs, I think the new 777s are still a pretty nice improvement. Merseyrail did a good job replacing a good train with another good train :)
It’s nice to see British (and especially North Western) trains after 2 weeks bimbling around Germany and Austria. Though having been on the ICE 3 neo it does put the Pendolinos into perspective, good Lord are those seats terrible.
I'd be interested to know how much the door and doorstep have added (if any) to the whole ride. I know the older trains here might not have had the same acceleration, but opening the door was almost immediate, with the new ones, you have to wait for the doorstep to fold out/slide out before the doors even start to open...
As you say, not a difinitive conclusion, however Grove Rd-Wallesey Village is 6.8% faster and, if you add in the Wallesey Village-Grove Road journeys, you still have a 3.6% journey time decrease. As for James St-Moorfields - the reduction in journey times is... 6.8%! So, it's possible the Wallesey Village-Grove Road leg is the outlier, and there actually has been an improvement.
@Sim0nTrains I wonder if the new aventras can outpace the 323s on the cross city line? Do you have some unedited footage from a 323 journey to compare it?
Had a feeling that the timetable would still be for the 507s and 508s right now! Guess I now need to wait another 2 and a half years to do this and see if the timetable is melded round the 777s 🤣
@@NickBadley I'm doing timing runs for Merseyrail soon for the timetable change to the 777 timetable this year. I'll see if they'll let me provide the data so you can look at it for an idea
Even if the 777s are quicker, the drivers are probably just easing into the throttle to give a smoother ride vs starting off at full throttle. They also might simply be set to accelerate at the same rate as the PEPs, like on the NYC subway where all the trains regardless of age are designed to accelerate at the exact same rate, so any train can run any timetable in their system.
I made my first trip to Liverpool just before Christmas and had a little ride on Merseyrail. I was very impressed and quite liked the class 777s, though as a train spotter of a certain age, I would have loved to have had a ride on one of the old PEPs. I did happen to make a little video 😉 ruclips.net/video/ta4DraJK-zI/видео.htmlsi=MV1aX-92EdG-NCb6
This goes to show that replacing trains (unless they are absolutely knackered) is not worth it and is frankly a waste of money. I dont know how WMT justified getting rid of the desiros and 323s when they were still mechanically perfect. The 323s were an icon, they were there when the line was first electrified and the desiros still felt new. Complete waste and such a shame.
I missed the last class 507 farewell tour because my mum didn't want to drive all the way to Liverpool and back again back to where she lives in a day. 😤
The speed is more noticeable when they are running late. The ability to get back on schedule is impressive. The old trains always used to struggle in comparison
I kid you not I was watching your old Merseyrail video about shortest/longest journey times and I wondered "Maybe the new trains are faster"... here we are lol
Maybe
As you said, the timetable is unlikely to have been changed to reflect the higher acceleration. Others have also mentioned defensive driving (more gentle acceleration and braking). I thought I would also add that the trains may be limited in how much current they can draw by the 750V DC system - though this would depend on the power infrastructure connected to the route.
The Class 507 and Class 508 will always be remembered. And the Class 777 are very nice trains. Perhaps Merseyrail should order more Class 777s and to operate as 8-Car on the Northern City Line and Wirral Line. If Stadler was to manufacture more Class 777s for Merseyrail.
I think your last point hits the nail on the head… trains might be faster but timetables haven’t changed so not going to be faster really
I had a feeling this would be the case before filming, seems to be true!
Seeing whether your train is faster or not is quite a roulette. At the end of the day, you still reach your destination, if the 777 doesn't end up breaking down again (swear that happens every time im on the Merseyrail Network)
P.S the PEPs are such a throwback. I'll miss them dearly
I suspect that even if the new trains are faster (Which they likely are by a small margin), the timetabling hasn't been changed to match the increase in speed, so it still takes the same amount of time. Also that slower driver was definitely just going slower to get back on schedule as they were running early.
i disagree with the timetabling argument. The time is made up depending on how long to hold the train at the platform. It departs on the scheduled time. This is how the timetabling works. The driver just needs to get from station A to station B in ideally as little time as possible. This also doesn't really mean much when its just a single stop journey. If the timetabled time is 1 minute or 1 hour, still going to take roughly the same amount of time. The test would eliminate these factors too as it was just moving time, not doors close to doors close which is how efficiency is measured.
If they are running late, they know this by the fact that they haven't yet departed at the scheduling time. If the scheduled time is 13:30, and they depart 13:31 this is a late service.
That being said, there is such a huge overhead now because the drivers cant run services to an efficient schedule so they may be inconsistent to how
@@jakewynn Yes however, if the timetable is more relaxed, the drivers will take it a slower pace because they have no reason to go quicker. A driver wouldn't go full force for no reason, seeing as its less comfortable for everyone involved. That's my thoughts at least.
@Soj_89 Tbh, I genuinely think the one driver departed early (which they shouldn't do because it's incredibly unfair on passengers) so that they could drive slower. It will most likely mean a slower approach to the station to make it easier as opposed to slower acceleration or top speed.
Still doesn't justify new trains in my opinion. I hate it when money is wasted and dare I say it boring replacements come in.
@@jakewynn Woah woah woah, the old class 507s were 37 years old, they were due for an upgrade. And the 777s have been a very successful and good upgrade to them. They're not boring, they're just more modern and accessible. Its not money wasted, maybe the 507s could've survived 5 more years, but still, they were overdue an upgrade, and that's what they've got.
The train acceleration doesn’t really affect the speed since the timetable is still the same and the drivers will accelerate or decelerate slower to give a smoother ride, unless they are late since they want to make up time.
Though I'll miss the PEPs, I think the new 777s are still a pretty nice improvement. Merseyrail did a good job replacing a good train with another good train :)
8:40 R.I.P class 507 (1 November 1978 - 28 November 2024) ❤️🕊️ you will be missed
It’s nice to see British (and especially North Western) trains after 2 weeks bimbling around Germany and Austria. Though having been on the ICE 3 neo it does put the Pendolinos into perspective, good Lord are those seats terrible.
I remembered the day I watched your old video, the good old days hey.. great video Nick!
I’d love it if you visit some of the stations on the Portsmouth Direct Line
Take in too account differences in time of day and weather... however keep eye on upcoming timetable changes
I'd be interested to know how much the door and doorstep have added (if any) to the whole ride. I know the older trains here might not have had the same acceleration, but opening the door was almost immediate, with the new ones, you have to wait for the doorstep to fold out/slide out before the doors even start to open...
I’ve travelled the Liverpool for Merseyrail on March 4 2025 and I rode on the peps and the 777
As you say, not a difinitive conclusion, however Grove Rd-Wallesey Village is 6.8% faster and, if you add in the Wallesey Village-Grove Road journeys, you still have a 3.6% journey time decrease.
As for James St-Moorfields - the reduction in journey times is... 6.8%!
So, it's possible the Wallesey Village-Grove Road leg is the outlier, and there actually has been an improvement.
Great video as always Nick! Keep it up
Hey Nick great video my local stations I wonder you going to do a pointless journey from Brighton to New Brighton one day
Interesting results but I do remember the old video and great that you went back to redo it with the Class 777s, Great video
@Sim0nTrains I wonder if the new aventras can outpace the 323s on the cross city line? Do you have some unedited footage from a 323 journey to compare it?
The Merseyrail videos made me a fan of yours.
The current timetable is based on the Class 50x's, the 777's timetable should be BNW-BOT 0:59 and Walton and Orrell Park 0:58.
Had a feeling that the timetable would still be for the 507s and 508s right now! Guess I now need to wait another 2 and a half years to do this and see if the timetable is melded round the 777s 🤣
@@NickBadley I'm doing timing runs for Merseyrail soon for the timetable change to the 777 timetable this year.
I'll see if they'll let me provide the data so you can look at it for an idea
I think the the class 777 speed is On external supply: 75 mph (120 km/h) 777/1 in battery mode: 62 mph (100 km/h)
I'm pretty sure that original video was what made me subscribe back then! I'm glad you remembered the promise and came back to do it again :)
Interesting Nick thank you
Brilliant video Nick. Interesting, I honestly thought the 777's would be slightly quicker.
They look very similar to the new Tyne and Wear Metro trains which are also DC electric.
you should do the glasgow subway again but this time do it from partick to partick
Please don't fill in hot ashes.
You're welcome.
🤣
R.I.P PEPS
Makes sense that on the very early train the driver didnt push as much
Even if the 777s are quicker, the drivers are probably just easing into the throttle to give a smoother ride vs starting off at full throttle. They also might simply be set to accelerate at the same rate as the PEPs, like on the NYC subway where all the trains regardless of age are designed to accelerate at the exact same rate, so any train can run any timetable in their system.
PEPs accelerate at 0.75ms-2 and the 777s accelerate at 1.1ms-2.
Speed limits stay the same. The older it (the train) gets the slower the acceleration
when was this filmed nick
Anyone else noticed that he stopped the video at 507 😂❤
Gen anticipation , train geeks what we like ?
Can you please visit all merseyrail stations again only using 777s
I made my first trip to Liverpool just before Christmas and had a little ride on Merseyrail. I was very impressed and quite liked the class 777s, though as a train spotter of a certain age, I would have loved to have had a ride on one of the old PEPs. I did happen to make a little video 😉 ruclips.net/video/ta4DraJK-zI/видео.htmlsi=MV1aX-92EdG-NCb6
This goes to show that replacing trains (unless they are absolutely knackered) is not worth it and is frankly a waste of money. I dont know how WMT justified getting rid of the desiros and 323s when they were still mechanically perfect. The 323s were an icon, they were there when the line was first electrified and the desiros still felt new. Complete waste and such a shame.
*cough cough* class 365s
I missed the last class 507 farewell tour because my mum didn't want to drive all the way to Liverpool and back again back to where she lives in a day. 😤
train