Leaf village with who 💀 bro was fighting choji 💀 Being serious, the feat of “fighting” the whole leaf village is extremely overblown. The only major fight is against kakashi, who is nowhere near the level of jiraiya or orochimaru at this point. The only real notable feat, in my opinion, is the shinra tensei that destroys the whole village.
@@WavedashnoirBro what he literally uses the Chaotic shinra tensei before fighting Naruto and only states he’s back at full power much later on in the fight. Using chaotic shinra tensei with the real body so far away took a massive toll on the Deva path and he fought almost the full rest of the fight nerfed by that.
You left out a lot of context when talking about Pain You claim Itachi did better against a Sannin than Pain but Pain fought in the Rain Village where he couldn’t use his strongest abilities or he’d destroy the entire village he’s in charge of. Itachi could only have that feat against Orochimaru with his strongest ability, something Pain couldn’t do against Jiraiya. You also forgot to mention Pain fought an ENTIRE VILLAGE along with prominent fighters like Kakashi, completely wiped out that entire village, Deva couldn’t use his abilities against Sage Naruto and the fact Pain was trying to capture Naruto alive. You never gave an explanation for how Itachi counters Chibaku Tensei only that Itachi found a way to destroy it under the setting of having two powerful allies with him. The Madara argument for visual genjutsu working on Pain doesn’t correlate because that’s the sharingan needed to use genjutsu not to defend from MS genjutsu. The rinnegan is the superior dojutsu, it makes zero sense for genjutsu to work on Pain. And even if it did, Tsukiyomi is useless on corpses that can’t feel pain. We even saw edo Itachi staring right at edo Nagato, why didn’t he use a genjutsu then to paralyze Nagato? Pain can literally just bansho tenin Itachi out of Susanoo and gets jumped idk if chibaku tensei is even needed.
The Sannin battle comparison was more about the topic of speed rather than raw power. Obviously Pain’s strongest move can one shot Jiraiya and I think they’d one shot an undefended Itachi as well, it was more to the point that Pain’s speed is still in that Sannin area while Itachi can just blitz Sannin. The fight with Sage Naruto was mainly supporting evidence to the Sannin comparison, although I do think it’s a good feat we’ve already seen what Pain at his peak should be like in terms of speed and his normal power levels(without big moves that drain all the other Pains). I don’t think it’s likely the Chibaku Tensei would ever come out in all reality, but even then during the War Itachi wasn’t at full power as he wasn’t at the highest stage of his Susano, and also took extra time to explain to Naruto what to do. If he attacks the gravitational orb earlier and with his full Susano I think it would also have a greater effect, especially since that was Nagato who is stronger than the Paths of Pain It being a “superior Dojutsu” doesn’t really work like that. It has different powers. It’s never been said that the Rinnegan has the Genjutsu resisting properties of the Sharingan so I see no reason to believe it does. And I never argued Itachi would use Tsukuyomi, I said he could use his lesser genjutsu to paralyze the individual Pains. Nagato was under the control of Kabuto who knows about Itachi’s Genjutsu prowess, most people know to avoid looking him in the eyes lol Not sure if Bansho Tenin would just go through the Susano, but even if it did that would bring Itachi into close range and mean he’d have 5 seconds before he could use Shinra Tensei, meaning he could get taken down by Amaterasu
@@canasdad9115 He also gets a buff in the rain village because he’s closer to Nagato so if anything they are stronger. Plus it’s not like using big attacks matter in the comparison because Itachi doesn’t put that much effort into beating Orochimaru. He just puts him in a normal sharingan Genjutsu and he’s cooked. Itachi also did this at 13 so he’s definitely a lot weaker. You also say “He fought a whole village of prominent fighters like Kakashi”, when that’s just not true. He fought an entire village of bums except Kakashi. Kakashi who is weaker than Sannin level is the strongest one there got low diffed by Pains nail. That didn’t expand any energy. Only thing that affected him was blowing up the village which did unqualified amount and Nagato doesn’t even feel it. As for the Genjutsu thing. Rinnegan have no stated resistance to Genjutsu. Saying that because it’s a higher grade it negates Genjutsu is an assumption. Do you also think that Madara can’t Genjutsu Pain with his base Sharingan. And we literally see Frog Song work on Pain. A Genjutsu that’s stated to be of the same caliber as Tsyukumi if not less. And the Itachi didn’t Genjutsu Nagato because he’s an Edo so you can’t kill him. Also Kabuto is in control of his body so if he Genjutsus him it won’t do anything. Bansho Tennin isn’t pushing Itachi out the Susano. It’s not getting past the Yata Mirror and doesn’t bypass the Susano itself.
Horrible analysis. Jiraiya had a massive field advantage. Running away from paths through piepes. Which allowed him to escape and allowed the trapping of the dog summon that is essentially immortal. Without that he’d lose to the animal path alone. Also jiraia trapping 3 paths in the frog song is irrelevant. That jutsu is discribed as the strongest genjutsu in the data book. It would have taken out itachi as wel and actually would have 1 shorted itachi since he doesn’t have extra bodies. The pain downplay is unreal
considering kotomatsukami is in same databook and is stated to be strongest as well would mean databook contradict itself as such using the statement is iffy at best
I don't like how it feels like nothing Pain could do in this analysis would be relevant. Are non of the big animals relevant to cause a distraction against Itachi ? It took powerful summons to fight them off, one of which (Gamabunta) fought tailed beasts in the past, and was still struggling. Couldn't the Asura path keep his distance and launch his missiles while the other paths fought ? Couldn't the Preta path absorb all of Itachi's strongest jutsu, or the Deva path end them with shinra tensei ? Itachi noticed the weakness in the shibaku tensei, but he also had kcm Naruto and a full 8 tails by his side to help, who's to say he could destroy one by himself ? 6 tails Naruto couldn't do it, and I don't think Itachi has anything that compares to that Naruto in destructive power. Of course it wouldn't be a free match for either side, but I felt like there were a lot of win cons for Pain that were not mentioned here. You used the examples of stronger fighters losing due to mathcup and strategy, but I don't think you gave the same credit to Pain. Still great video though, keep going Professor 👍🏻
Pain is heavily downplayed here. I’m Disappointed! Btw RUclips keeps shadowbanning this comment let's try again 4th times the charm :( I was pretty much expecting this, happy you didn’t use war arc scaling but still many disagreements with this video. I’ll list them below and you let me know what you think. 1 Sage Mode Jiraiya Fight: So first of all Pain does not struggle with Jiraiya and using feats from stomps of two characters to put one character above another is also a very dubious way to scale. The paths of pain vary in strength which is shown by numerous examples such as some paths having to drag other paths out of the way of rasenshurikens and some paths getting blitzed by SMN whereas Deva and Asura can intercept and react to SMN. Despite this, the mid-weaker members of the paths like the animal path can still react to Kebari Senbon which is Jiraiya’s fastest attack. While Jiraiya is only able to land a clean kick on the human path who is a weaker path while the other paths sit back and don’t even try to help. And the only other times he lands a hit on a path is when they are temporarily stunned from being hit by frog song. The Asura path also literally tags Jiraiya from close range and arguably blitzes him as he announces his attack prior to attacking by mocking Jiraiya from behind. Jiraiya is turning his head as they are both moving but is still unable to react in time and gets his arm blown off. It’s also not an offguard attack at all, Sage Mode is stated to have danger sensing and Jiraiya also has 2 other sets of eyes and ears on him (Ma and Pa) ontop of the fact that he was literally given notice of the attack. He literally just got outsped and blatantly tagged. The comment about winning is also likely in reference to frog song or setting another trap to single out Nagato, which doesn’t have to necessarily be physical stats based. This is further supported by Pain stipulating he would win IF he knew their secret, and obviously knowing there are 6 paths and a seperate body doesn’t magically amp Jiraiya’s physical stats to where he can just solo all of them. So at best you have itachi blitzing Orochimaru in a form that we don’t know if or how it scales in movement speed to his normal form. It’s possible Oro perceived the attack and didn’t move because his large body wasn’t agile enough. Infact even in the real world larger snakes are slower as their physiognomy is such that their larger muscle mass isn’t able to make up for the overall weight increase. But even if we grant full relativity or even superiority to Hydra Orochimaru based on the databook statements, Pain still arguably has a similar or more concrete feat on a full power sage Jiraiya which is a form that is stated to surpass the Sannin entirely. 2. Sage Mode Naruto & 5KS Sasuke Scaling: I have so many problems with this section. The logic for pain being only at sage mode Naruto’s level but Itachi eclipsing this tier entirely doesn’t make much sense to me. What has alive itachi shown that puts him on the level of a hatred amped 5KS Sasuke? He fights a Sasuke who doesn’t even have MS, and yes he’s superior to that Sasuke, but his feats against this far weaker Sasuke would not apply to 5KS Sasuke as well. Also, why does 5KS Sasuke scale to the V2 Raikage when it’s stated he can’t react physically to him and has to resort to Susaano activation and sharingan precog to somewhat fight him? And even Sasuke’s susaano doesn’t not scale to the Raikage, the Raikage cracks his rib cage with his forearm and was going to stomp out the Susaano rib cage before Gaara stepped in. The only reason that fight was somewhat competitive is because Sasuke coated his Susaano with Amaterasu which is a hax ability. He was not competitive with the Raikage in physical stats. Sage Naruto and 5KS Sasuke being implied to be equal by Zetsu also does NOT mean Sasuke would automatically perform as well against Pain. Sasuke and Naruto are different fighters and Naruto specifically had intel on pain. Pain is a much worse matchup for Sasuke as he can use shinra tensei to cancel out Susaano and easily use bansho tenin to pull him out of Susaano. The susaano is also made of chakra so it could likely be absorbed by the preta path. And naruto is a master shadow clone user with a massive chakra and stamina reserve allowing him to somewhat equalise the numbers disadvantage against Pain. So there’s really no argument here. Alive itachi has no direct scale to Sage Mode Naruto or 5KS Sasuke and even if you somehow get Itachi above Sasuke via dubious war arc scaling, that still doesn’t mean he would automatically perform as well or better than sage mode Naruto (who still got beaten btw). Also while we’re on the topic of sage mode naruto scaling, Deva beats Naruto while being nerfed for most of the fight from using chaotic shinra tensei on the village. He’s also expending energy and overextending his real body the whole time by fighting the entire village simultaneously. He only regains the power to perform normal shinra tensei’s deep into the fight with SMN and after that he’s still massively fatigued as Konan commenting that he’s expended so much chakra that he needs to rest. Yet he still has enough energy to trap up to an 8 tails Naruto in Chibaku tensei. Fatigued Pain ~> SMN who Itachi has no direct scale to. 3 Abilities & Wincons You outright dismiss a bunch of Pain’s abilities and wincons which in my opinion is pretty baseless. First of all pain doesn’t need to cleanly tag Itachi with certain wincons right away, as he wears down Itachi throughout the fight from having to deal with 6 paths + countless summons, he can then start to employ specific wincons. Human and Naraka are instant win cons on a clean tag as they have king of hell and soul steal. A clean grab from Preta should also drain his chakra to 0 and incapacitate him. Any clean hits by the Asura path’s weapons should also be enough to severely damage him, A ninja of Kakashi’s caliber couldnt even survive a mini rod flick from Deva. I don’t see how base itachi survives chakra amped missiles. Now, none of the abilities I’ve mentioned are going to work on Susaano. But they would all work on Itachi if he was forced out of Susaano for any reason (e.g farigue, chakra absorption/negation). Which brings me to my next win cons which WOULD work on the Susaano. Bansho tenin out of Susaano into tendo chakra rods is a win con (he literally does this to Naruto) And gaara can pull Madara out of perfect Susaano, so Pain shouldn’t have a problem doing something similar. Shinra tensei is likely a wincon as it negates chakra (which the susaano is made out of) and obviously Chibaku tensei is a clear win con. You mention Itachi being able to counter Chibaku tensei but this is only with Bee and Naruto’s help and while in Edo. There’s no evidence he could escape it by himself. Also, who knows what the chakra/stamina cost of the yasaka magatama beads is. The genjutsu point is also moot. Itachi says Tsukoyomi can be broken out of by attaining the Mangekyo sharingan. The rinnegan is literally a more evolved state of the MS which means Pain also has the capacity to resist it. And The Tsukuyomi is stated to be the strongest ocular jutsu, so no other MS genjutsu would work either. Obviously frog song worked but that’s an auditory genjutsu and the rinnegan is an ocular prowess, not auditory. 4. Itachi’s Stamina My last big point of contention is itachi’s stamina. It’s true that he does use a lot of abilities against Sasuke, but this is a holding back Itachi who’s also using DRUGS to prolong his life and increase his endurance. It’s fair to assume that against a much stronger opponent he would expend more energy and also we can’t just grant him his drug enhanced form that fought Sasuke, that would be against standard battle assumptions by giving him artificial enhancements outside of his standard kit. Without drugs, a healthier and younger itachi in P1 is fairly fatigued even after just using Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi once. Conclusion and final thoughts: Overall, I believe it’s fair to say itachi and pain scale in similar areas stats wise. However pain has the much better endurance and array of abilities. His numbers advantage also allows him to apply pressure much more easily. There’s no mistake why Pain has so many statements and overall lore surrounding him painting him as the strongest in the series until that point. There’s even statements that say even the strongest akatsuki members listen to him because of his power, As well as the editors end of chapter statements saying he’s the strongest man in the akatsuki. I see Pain easily wearing him down throughout a battle and eventually getting him with bansho tenin. Edo Itachi might be a different story, but alive itachi has major stamina and endurance issues, if he can’t win early with genjutsu, Amaterasu or totska blade, he’s fresh out of luck. Pain wins. Alright that’s all. Let me know your thoughts Prof! Also read my last comment on your Killua vs Feitan video and let me know what you think. Keep putting out dope content, this was an enjoyable watch :)
Hello me from my second account. I’m replying to this so RUclips hopefully sees this as authentic engagement and doesn’t auto report my original comment as spam. Btw Prof can you grant me some special immunity on your channel like how the rinnegan resists the mangekyo genjutsu? Pretty please ;)
I think Itachi is easier to argue for in a debate setting, but I side with Pain for various reasons. I've flip flopped a bit too, going from siding with Pain, then Itachi using the exact arguments You used here, then back to Pain for various other arguments. But I'll be doing my own video sometime on Pain specifically. Still pretty solid video overall though.
Power scaling aside I will take Kamui over anything Rinnegan has. I mean you literally get your own fricking pocket dimension, while also being untouchable.
W video. Love this one. As an Itachi fan I approve he’s my favorite character in the series, so him getting respect will always feel good to me. Also thanks for addressing the downplay arguments. If I had to choose I’d say Pain beats Sick Itachi with High Difficulty. If it was both at max strength Healthy Itachi would beat Healthy Nagato with Extreme Difficulty. Just my opinion.
I'll need to watch the video since I try to be fair with this kind of thing. I'm not huge into power scaling, so I’m open to input. But, doesn't Pain hard counter Itachi? The Deva Path alone should be able to use Shinra Tensei to completely negate Amaterasu. Plus, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bansho Tenin could pull Itachi right out of his Susanoo, making his Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade useless. Besides that, this might be a stretch, but isn't the Rinnegan evolved from the Sharingan, meaning it can potentially defend against Genjutsu? Even if one or two Paths of Pain could be influenced by Itachi's illusions, Nagato should be able to snap them out of it. Worst case scenario, Nagato could use Chibaku Tensei, which I don't see Itachi's Susanoo being able to overcome. And let's not forget that the Preta Path can absorb chakra (which wouldn't help Itachi considering his limited stamina), the Asura Path's has what I presume to be chakra-enforced missiles, the Human Path has soul extraction (if he can hold Itachi in place), the Animal Path has various summons (like the Bird, Cerberus, Chameleon, and Giant Rhino), and the Naraka Path, which can restore any fallen Pain body. The only thing I can think of is that Itachi outstats Pain in the intellect or speed department, but even that can only take him so far. I really struggle to think of a way that Itachi would win. Again, I'm open to input though, and I'll watch this when I come back from lunch. Thanks Professor for the content!
It’s been a while but Wasn’t pain holding back to some degree in the rain village. I don’t remember him using universal pull or chibaku Tensei? Idk if it really matters but I am just curious
No pain was not holding back in the rain village, Not using chibaku tensei doesn’t necessarily mean he is holding back, it’s a last resort when he’s backed into a corner
Hi Professor_Fiction, Could you please create a video about the comments of Itachi vs Pain and clarifies some misconceptions, mistakes, and further details of this matchup. I read some comments that criticised you for ignoring or downplaying them, so it nice to make a follow up video.
Would like to see perhaps a part two of this video with war arc pain vs war arc itachi. Itachi obviously stronger since he wasn’t sick anymore and Nagato also stronger since he had all his powers in a single body. I think it would be an interesting discussion regardless of outcome.
Another good pro-itachi argument: 1. Minato declared obito to be stronger than pain after he witnessed both of them fight at full power 2. It's stated many times throughout the series that obito and itachi were close rivals and didn't want to fight each other 3. It logically follows that itachi is stronger than pain
@canasdad9115 read or watch the scene where minato talks with naruto in his mental space after he gets trapped in the chibaku tensei during the pain fight As for the itachi vs obito stuff. One statement is from the itachi light novel and the other is when obito called itachi an "eyesore" in the manga (I can't remember exactly the chapter range for that scene)
@@josephisrael8959 Those are both stretches 1. No where is it implied Minato witnessed Pain’s arsenal 2. what’s the statement from the light novel? “eyesore” does not mean equal footing
For the time when Pain fought naruto, Rinnegan's gravity control was one of the strongest solo-target jutsus. He could easily do something along the"bansho tennin + stab with black recievers".And from when Gaara pulled Madara out of susanoo we know that it is not solid from the inside. Even if Itachi could counter it by being in susanoo, Pain still can win, cuz Itachi is not very enduring, especially with MS. Maybe if he fought Nagato he had a small chance of winning, but 6 on 1 without quick way of one-shotting him, thats not even close.
Pain also speed blitzed Orochimaru, when he wanted him to join the Akatsuki. Also Pain still could heal the entire leaf village after destroying it, fighting Kakashi, Naruto and an eight- tails kurama
Let put in layman's terms. Pain has gravity and jitsu negation. While, itachi has fire and a giant puppet with a sealing sword and infinite blocking shield. Pain wins this.
i don't know if you did it intentionally or not, but some of the things are way too out of context even after seeing amaterasu, gyuki still thinks killer bee doesn't need to go full 8 tails to slam team taka (killer bee also just finished an intense training session right before team taka showed up, so he's nerfed for the whole fight) jiraiya has 2 toad sage, who are arguably individually stronger than the likes of bunta, so even if we say hydra orochi = sage jiraiya (which might not even be the case due to how oro's hydra jutsu is known to other people while jiraiya's sage mode isn't), jiraiya + ma&pa as a whole is still drastically stronger, yet when he fights with the 3 weak pains, they gave jiraiya so much pressure (animal path is also not spamming summons) that he think the only win con is to gamble his life on a guess that he doesn't even know if it will work. jiraiya only did as well as he did against all 6 pain because the pains didn't fight him seriously, as a reminder, deva + preta combo is a one shot to even sage naruto, who is stronger than sage jiraiya. also, pain stating there's a chance of losing to jiraiya is pretty unreliable, it's almost like a "i see 14million possible outcomes and only 1 where I lose" situation, there are so many requirement jiraiya has to fulfill perfectly to even get a chance of winning. what's worse is that ma and pa literally tries to do it in naruto vs pain, and pain just clowned on them despite only having one body left pain is also fatigued and only using non lethal forces against naruto the entire time, the instant he got his power back up, deva and preta pretty much just insta killed sage naruto. (near "death" tendo also outperformed mental amp sage naruto after minato talked with naruto) naruto being able to resist soul pull doesn't mean itachi can resist it, naruto was specifically trained to play soul tug of war the arc before itachi actually doesn't have a counter to chibaku tensei, sure, he figured out its weakness, but that doesn't mean he is able to exploit it. it took the combined effort of kcm1 naruto, full 8 tail bee, and itachi to overwhelm chibaku tensei, if itachi can deal with it solo, they wouldn't need to sync all 3 of their attacks and launch them at the same time. chibaku tensei also activates so quickly that itachi can't stop it before it goes off in the manga, so the frieza beats goku up before spirit bomb analogy doesn't really work that well
lol yeah pain had fought literally the entire leaf village then sage Naruto still beat sage Naruto then fought 6 tails Naruto then Naruto gets a get out of jail free card and gets respawned outside of the chibaku tensei with no injuries really and then barely beats pain. Nagato then still has enough chakra to revive the whole leaf village afterwards. Itachis illness is also tied to his stamina the more he uses his mangekyo the worse his illness gets so unless it’s a hypothetical itachi with no illness once he starts using his mangekyo the clock starts ticking on how long he has to win. Itachi also needed help to beat chibaku tensei when he fought nagato he couldn’t have done it alone so if it’s one on one that’s basically GG for pain. There are several other points is disagree with too but I’m sure someone else will mention them.
I only have 1 criticism about the video. in the who is stronger section, you set up that scaling chain that seems to put pain close to the tier of sage Naruto. you probably know this, but you left out that the most troublesome pain didn't have his abilities until most of the paths were dead. as soon as he got them back the battle shifted to his favour. I agree though for the most part that if pain arc sage Naruto could keep up with the speed of the divided paths, itachi will have no problem either, as he's more on early ems sasuke level, while Naruto at this point would be more summit sasuke's rival. just in terms of caliber of shinobi pain is far above sage Naruto. he could have killed him if he wanted, his goal was to capture him alive. and he started without is best ability. this was my ted talk.
Nice video zetsu doesnt really call pain invincible. He said this after itachi died but even then in original Japanese he only said obito thought of a backup nothing about i cant believe pain died like viz added. Databooks are mostly correct. Their hyperboles usually are not translated properly, not taken in context or in worst scenarios directly contradicted by feats. They do call pain invincible but the word they use in Japanese is fuhaii which just means invincible because of an unbeaten record. Itachi is called muteki-invincible in its truest sense. The susanoo is not called the strongest dojutsu. Its actually the mangekyo of itachi itself. The susanoo brings him on an even higher level. The 2nd fanbook written after the pain fight also says itachis power surpasses everything so its consistent. With storm connections obito thinks itachi is unbeatable and unsurpassable. Overall this remains true till the war arc until madara comes.
I've got to disagree because orochimaru doesn't scale to jiraiya he states that he surpassed the sannin when entering sage mode so he is stronger than orchimaru also frog song is stronger than tsukuyomi so who knows if it works against pain and Itachi even in a stronger form can't destroy a planetary devastation Edit: spelling
could you tell me when was it stated that sage mode jiraya surpassed sanin? orochimarus hydra form /hydra thing not sure if its actually for , is stated to surpass orochimaru , as for frog song been stronger than tsukuyomi is it based on third databook inside which both frog song and kotoamatsukami are called strongest genjutsu and as such databook contradict itself
But fr Itachi would win but pain is “stronger” Itachi whole thing is about finding the weakness to any jutsu and IF he was alive in PERFECT health he very well maybe STRONGER than Pain, just to mention he has more talent than Pain.
Pain's portrayal is mediocre. Minato considered him as merely an obstacle. Itachi didn't even talk about Pain, only Obito. Itachi and Obito (indirectly) didn't consider Pain to be able to stand against Itachi. Itachi stated that him and Nagato together would be nigh unstoppable, meaning he is closer to Nagato than Pain. And then you have a nerfed edo Itachi, who "killed" a vastly superior version of Pain not once, not twice, but three times. In the end, Itachi has more arguments in his favour. Edo Itachi undoubtedly so.
@@lukaskrivda9374 How many people did it take to destroy chibaku tensei? Who distracted Nagato while Itachi needed to sneak attack Nagato? liability lol
@@canasdad9115 that weird retoric , its like saying kakuzu was able to survive fight with hashirama , since obviously chibaku tense created by nagato who is amp by bees chakra scale below those 3 attacks , considering itachi never before saw chibaku tense , doesnt know what are bees and narutos strongest attacks (especially after bees chakra was stolen ) but sure lets say itachi cant alone stop chibaku tense created by nagato amp by bees chakra when did itachi seank attack nagato ? itachi used amaterasu on dog then turn around and use it on nagato so that wouldnt be sneak attack , then he save bee and naruto with his susano rather than stab him with totsuka blade , then they destroy chibaku tense and itachi speed blitz nagato with totska blade , since bee and naruto stand right next to itachi he wasnt distracted by them
They got them eyeballs
what them eyeballs do tho
@@dull1831They do be doin a lot
@@wingzero7678 type shi
Im only halfway through but it seems like you’re forgetting that pain fought THE ENTIRE LEAF VILLAGE before fighting naruto. I’ll keep watching though
He never remembered.
It wasn't shown to have any effect on his chakra pool, and none of them did any substantial damage
Leaf village with who 💀 bro was fighting choji 💀
Being serious, the feat of “fighting” the whole leaf village is extremely overblown. The only major fight is against kakashi, who is nowhere near the level of jiraiya or orochimaru at this point. The only real notable feat, in my opinion, is the shinra tensei that destroys the whole village.
@@kennethxu1789He was mostly tired from destroying it with the big all mighty push at the start
@@WavedashnoirBro what he literally uses the Chaotic shinra tensei before fighting Naruto and only states he’s back at full power much later on in the fight. Using chaotic shinra tensei with the real body so far away took a massive toll on the Deva path and he fought almost the full rest of the fight nerfed by that.
You left out a lot of context when talking about Pain
You claim Itachi did better against a Sannin than Pain but Pain fought in the Rain Village where he couldn’t use his strongest abilities or he’d destroy the entire village he’s in charge of. Itachi could only have that feat against Orochimaru with his strongest ability, something Pain couldn’t do against Jiraiya.
You also forgot to mention Pain fought an ENTIRE VILLAGE along with prominent fighters like Kakashi, completely wiped out that entire village, Deva couldn’t use his abilities against Sage Naruto and the fact Pain was trying to capture Naruto alive.
You never gave an explanation for how Itachi counters Chibaku Tensei only that Itachi found a way to destroy it under the setting of having two powerful allies with him.
The Madara argument for visual genjutsu working on Pain doesn’t correlate because that’s the sharingan needed to use genjutsu not to defend from MS genjutsu. The rinnegan is the superior dojutsu, it makes zero sense for genjutsu to work on Pain. And even if it did, Tsukiyomi is useless on corpses that can’t feel pain. We even saw edo Itachi staring right at edo Nagato, why didn’t he use a genjutsu then to paralyze Nagato?
Pain can literally just bansho tenin Itachi out of Susanoo and gets jumped idk if chibaku tensei is even needed.
The Sannin battle comparison was more about the topic of speed rather than raw power. Obviously Pain’s strongest move can one shot Jiraiya and I think they’d one shot an undefended Itachi as well, it was more to the point that Pain’s speed is still in that Sannin area while Itachi can just blitz Sannin.
The fight with Sage Naruto was mainly supporting evidence to the Sannin comparison, although I do think it’s a good feat we’ve already seen what Pain at his peak should be like in terms of speed and his normal power levels(without big moves that drain all the other Pains).
I don’t think it’s likely the Chibaku Tensei would ever come out in all reality, but even then during the War Itachi wasn’t at full power as he wasn’t at the highest stage of his Susano, and also took extra time to explain to Naruto what to do. If he attacks the gravitational orb earlier and with his full Susano I think it would also have a greater effect, especially since that was Nagato who is stronger than the Paths of Pain
It being a “superior Dojutsu” doesn’t really work like that. It has different powers. It’s never been said that the Rinnegan has the Genjutsu resisting properties of the Sharingan so I see no reason to believe it does. And I never argued Itachi would use Tsukuyomi, I said he could use his lesser genjutsu to paralyze the individual Pains. Nagato was under the control of Kabuto who knows about Itachi’s Genjutsu prowess, most people know to avoid looking him in the eyes lol
Not sure if Bansho Tenin would just go through the Susano, but even if it did that would bring Itachi into close range and mean he’d have 5 seconds before he could use Shinra Tensei, meaning he could get taken down by Amaterasu
🤝
LMAOOOOO
@@Professor_Fictiona blind animal path caught a kick from sage jiraiya while in a smokebomb bro😭
@@canasdad9115 He also gets a buff in the rain village because he’s closer to Nagato so if anything they are stronger. Plus it’s not like using big attacks matter in the comparison because Itachi doesn’t put that much effort into beating Orochimaru. He just puts him in a normal sharingan Genjutsu and he’s cooked. Itachi also did this at 13 so he’s definitely a lot weaker.
You also say “He fought a whole village of prominent fighters like Kakashi”, when that’s just not true. He fought an entire village of bums except Kakashi. Kakashi who is weaker than Sannin level is the strongest one there got low diffed by Pains nail. That didn’t expand any energy.
Only thing that affected him was blowing up the village which did unqualified amount and Nagato doesn’t even feel it.
As for the Genjutsu thing. Rinnegan have no stated resistance to Genjutsu. Saying that because it’s a higher grade it negates Genjutsu is an assumption. Do you also think that Madara can’t Genjutsu Pain with his base Sharingan. And we literally see Frog Song work on Pain. A Genjutsu that’s stated to be of the same caliber as Tsyukumi if not less.
And the Itachi didn’t Genjutsu Nagato because he’s an Edo so you can’t kill him. Also Kabuto is in control of his body so if he Genjutsus him it won’t do anything.
Bansho Tennin isn’t pushing Itachi out the Susano. It’s not getting past the Yata Mirror and doesn’t bypass the Susano itself.
Horrible analysis. Jiraiya had a massive field advantage. Running away from paths through piepes. Which allowed him to escape and allowed the trapping of the dog summon that is essentially immortal. Without that he’d lose to the animal path alone. Also jiraia trapping 3 paths in the frog song is irrelevant. That jutsu is discribed as the strongest genjutsu in the data book. It would have taken out itachi as wel and actually would have 1 shorted itachi since he doesn’t have extra bodies. The pain downplay is unreal
considering kotomatsukami is in same databook and is stated to be strongest as well would mean databook contradict itself as such using the statement is iffy at best
i think pain would win because he’s cooler
edit: before fighting naruto pain was also winded from fighting and then nuking the entire leaf village
I don't like how it feels like nothing Pain could do in this analysis would be relevant. Are non of the big animals relevant to cause a distraction against Itachi ? It took powerful summons to fight them off, one of which (Gamabunta) fought tailed beasts in the past, and was still struggling.
Couldn't the Asura path keep his distance and launch his missiles while the other paths fought ?
Couldn't the Preta path absorb all of Itachi's strongest jutsu, or the Deva path end them with shinra tensei ?
Itachi noticed the weakness in the shibaku tensei, but he also had kcm Naruto and a full 8 tails by his side to help, who's to say he could destroy one by himself ? 6 tails Naruto couldn't do it, and I don't think Itachi has anything that compares to that Naruto in destructive power.
Of course it wouldn't be a free match for either side, but I felt like there were a lot of win cons for Pain that were not mentioned here. You used the examples of stronger fighters losing due to mathcup and strategy, but I don't think you gave the same credit to Pain.
Still great video though, keep going Professor 👍🏻
Pain is heavily downplayed here. I’m Disappointed! Btw RUclips keeps shadowbanning this comment let's try again 4th times the charm :(
I was pretty much expecting this, happy you didn’t use war arc scaling but still many disagreements with this video. I’ll list them below and you let me know what you think.
1 Sage Mode Jiraiya Fight:
So first of all Pain does not struggle with Jiraiya and using feats from stomps of two characters to put one character above another is also a very dubious way to scale. The paths of pain vary in strength which is shown by numerous examples such as some paths having to drag other paths out of the way of rasenshurikens and some paths getting blitzed by SMN whereas Deva and Asura can intercept and react to SMN. Despite this, the mid-weaker members of the paths like the animal path can still react to Kebari Senbon which is Jiraiya’s fastest attack. While Jiraiya is only able to land a clean kick on the human path who is a weaker path while the other paths sit back and don’t even try to help. And the only other times he lands a hit on a path is when they are temporarily stunned from being hit by frog song.
The Asura path also literally tags Jiraiya from close range and arguably blitzes him as he announces his attack prior to attacking by mocking Jiraiya from behind. Jiraiya is turning his head as they are both moving but is still unable to react in time and gets his arm blown off. It’s also not an offguard attack at all, Sage Mode is stated to have danger sensing and Jiraiya also has 2 other sets of eyes and ears on him (Ma and Pa) ontop of the fact that he was literally given notice of the attack. He literally just got outsped and blatantly tagged. The comment about winning is also likely in reference to frog song or setting another trap to single out Nagato, which doesn’t have to necessarily be physical stats based. This is further supported by Pain stipulating he would win IF he knew their secret, and obviously knowing there are 6 paths and a seperate body doesn’t magically amp Jiraiya’s physical stats to where he can just solo all of them.
So at best you have itachi blitzing Orochimaru in a form that we don’t know if or how it scales in movement speed to his normal form. It’s possible Oro perceived the attack and didn’t move because his large body wasn’t agile enough. Infact even in the real world larger snakes are slower as their physiognomy is such that their larger muscle mass isn’t able to make up for the overall weight increase. But even if we grant full relativity or even superiority to Hydra Orochimaru based on the databook statements, Pain still arguably has a similar or more concrete feat on a full power sage Jiraiya which is a form that is stated to surpass the Sannin entirely.
2. Sage Mode Naruto & 5KS Sasuke Scaling:
I have so many problems with this section. The logic for pain being only at sage mode Naruto’s level but Itachi eclipsing this tier entirely doesn’t make much sense to me. What has alive itachi shown that puts him on the level of a hatred amped 5KS Sasuke? He fights a Sasuke who doesn’t even have MS, and yes he’s superior to that Sasuke, but his feats against this far weaker Sasuke would not apply to 5KS Sasuke as well.
Also, why does 5KS Sasuke scale to the V2 Raikage when it’s stated he can’t react physically to him and has to resort to Susaano activation and sharingan precog to somewhat fight him? And even Sasuke’s susaano doesn’t not scale to the Raikage, the Raikage cracks his rib cage with his forearm and was going to stomp out the Susaano rib cage before Gaara stepped in. The only reason that fight was somewhat competitive is because Sasuke coated his Susaano with Amaterasu which is a hax ability. He was not competitive with the Raikage in physical stats.
Sage Naruto and 5KS Sasuke being implied to be equal by Zetsu also does NOT mean Sasuke would automatically perform as well against Pain. Sasuke and Naruto are different fighters and Naruto specifically had intel on pain. Pain is a much worse matchup for Sasuke as he can use shinra tensei to cancel out Susaano and easily use bansho tenin to pull him out of Susaano. The susaano is also made of chakra so it could likely be absorbed by the preta path. And naruto is a master shadow clone user with a massive chakra and stamina reserve allowing him to somewhat equalise the numbers disadvantage against Pain.
So there’s really no argument here. Alive itachi has no direct scale to Sage Mode Naruto or 5KS Sasuke and even if you somehow get Itachi above Sasuke via dubious war arc scaling, that still doesn’t mean he would automatically perform as well or better than sage mode Naruto (who still got beaten btw). Also while we’re on the topic of sage mode naruto scaling, Deva beats Naruto while being nerfed for most of the fight from using chaotic shinra tensei on the village. He’s also expending energy and overextending his real body the whole time by fighting the entire village simultaneously. He only regains the power to perform normal shinra tensei’s deep into the fight with SMN and after that he’s still massively fatigued as Konan commenting that he’s expended so much chakra that he needs to rest. Yet he still has enough energy to trap up to an 8 tails Naruto in Chibaku tensei. Fatigued Pain ~> SMN who Itachi has no direct scale to.
3 Abilities & Wincons
You outright dismiss a bunch of Pain’s abilities and wincons which in my opinion is pretty baseless. First of all pain doesn’t need to cleanly tag Itachi with certain wincons right away, as he wears down Itachi throughout the fight from having to deal with 6 paths + countless summons, he can then start to employ specific wincons. Human and Naraka are instant win cons on a clean tag as they have king of hell and soul steal. A clean grab from Preta should also drain his chakra to 0 and incapacitate him. Any clean hits by the Asura path’s weapons should also be enough to severely damage him, A ninja of Kakashi’s caliber couldnt even survive a mini rod flick from Deva. I don’t see how base itachi survives chakra amped missiles.
Now, none of the abilities I’ve mentioned are going to work on Susaano. But they would all work on Itachi if he was forced out of Susaano for any reason (e.g farigue, chakra absorption/negation). Which brings me to my next win cons which WOULD work on the Susaano. Bansho tenin out of Susaano into tendo chakra rods is a win con (he literally does this to Naruto) And gaara can pull Madara out of perfect Susaano, so Pain shouldn’t have a problem doing something similar. Shinra tensei is likely a wincon as it negates chakra (which the susaano is made out of) and obviously Chibaku tensei is a clear win con. You mention Itachi being able to counter Chibaku tensei but this is only with Bee and Naruto’s help and while in Edo. There’s no evidence he could escape it by himself. Also, who knows what the chakra/stamina cost of the yasaka magatama beads is.
The genjutsu point is also moot. Itachi says Tsukoyomi can be broken out of by attaining the Mangekyo sharingan. The rinnegan is literally a more evolved state of the MS which means Pain also has the capacity to resist it. And The Tsukuyomi is stated to be the strongest ocular jutsu, so no other MS genjutsu would work either. Obviously frog song worked but that’s an auditory genjutsu and the rinnegan is an ocular prowess, not auditory.
4. Itachi’s Stamina
My last big point of contention is itachi’s stamina. It’s true that he does use a lot of abilities against Sasuke, but this is a holding back Itachi who’s also using DRUGS to prolong his life and increase his endurance. It’s fair to assume that against a much stronger opponent he would expend more energy and also we can’t just grant him his drug enhanced form that fought Sasuke, that would be against standard battle assumptions by giving him artificial enhancements outside of his standard kit. Without drugs, a healthier and younger itachi in P1 is fairly fatigued even after just using Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi once.
Conclusion and final thoughts:
Overall, I believe it’s fair to say itachi and pain scale in similar areas stats wise. However pain has the much better endurance and array of abilities. His numbers advantage also allows him to apply pressure much more easily. There’s no mistake why Pain has so many statements and overall lore surrounding him painting him as the strongest in the series until that point. There’s even statements that say even the strongest akatsuki members listen to him because of his power, As well as the editors end of chapter statements saying he’s the strongest man in the akatsuki. I see Pain easily wearing him down throughout a battle and eventually getting him with bansho tenin. Edo Itachi might be a different story, but alive itachi has major stamina and endurance issues, if he can’t win early with genjutsu, Amaterasu or totska blade, he’s fresh out of luck. Pain wins.
Alright that’s all. Let me know your thoughts Prof! Also read my last comment on your Killua vs Feitan video and let me know what you think. Keep putting out dope content, this was an enjoyable watch :)
Hello me from my second account. I’m replying to this so RUclips hopefully sees this as authentic engagement and doesn’t auto report my original comment as spam. Btw Prof can you grant me some special immunity on your channel like how the rinnegan resists the mangekyo genjutsu? Pretty please ;)
@@death2reaper211
the rinnegan comment lol
Bro thinks this is a discord server
Great comment man
@@Niyariii Thanks man. I hope he responds to it on stream.
I think Itachi is easier to argue for in a debate setting, but I side with Pain for various reasons. I've flip flopped a bit too, going from siding with Pain, then Itachi using the exact arguments You used here, then back to Pain for various other arguments. But I'll be doing my own video sometime on Pain specifically.
Still pretty solid video overall though.
if the paths of pain were actually near his main body pain just dogwalks itachi
Power scaling aside I will take Kamui over anything Rinnegan has. I mean you literally get your own fricking pocket dimension, while also being untouchable.
I'll pick pain
I'll come back once I've napped
I'll come back once I've napped
I generally agree Itachi wins this battle, but you seemed to downplay Pain in many ways.
W video. Love this one. As an Itachi fan I approve he’s my favorite character in the series, so him getting respect will always feel good to me. Also thanks for addressing the downplay arguments.
If I had to choose I’d say Pain beats Sick Itachi with High Difficulty. If it was both at max strength Healthy Itachi would beat Healthy Nagato with Extreme Difficulty. Just my opinion.
I'll need to watch the video since I try to be fair with this kind of thing. I'm not huge into power scaling, so I’m open to input. But, doesn't Pain hard counter Itachi? The Deva Path alone should be able to use Shinra Tensei to completely negate Amaterasu. Plus, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bansho Tenin could pull Itachi right out of his Susanoo, making his Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade useless. Besides that, this might be a stretch, but isn't the Rinnegan evolved from the Sharingan, meaning it can potentially defend against Genjutsu? Even if one or two Paths of Pain could be influenced by Itachi's illusions, Nagato should be able to snap them out of it. Worst case scenario, Nagato could use Chibaku Tensei, which I don't see Itachi's Susanoo being able to overcome. And let's not forget that the Preta Path can absorb chakra (which wouldn't help Itachi considering his limited stamina), the Asura Path's has what I presume to be chakra-enforced missiles, the Human Path has soul extraction (if he can hold Itachi in place), the Animal Path has various summons (like the Bird, Cerberus, Chameleon, and Giant Rhino), and the Naraka Path, which can restore any fallen Pain body. The only thing I can think of is that Itachi outstats Pain in the intellect or speed department, but even that can only take him so far. I really struggle to think of a way that Itachi would win. Again, I'm open to input though, and I'll watch this when I come back from lunch. Thanks Professor for the content!
It’s been a while but Wasn’t pain holding back to some degree in the rain village. I don’t remember him using universal pull or chibaku Tensei? Idk if it really matters but I am just curious
No pain was not holding back in the rain village, Not using chibaku tensei doesn’t necessarily mean he is holding back, it’s a last resort when he’s backed into a corner
Genjutsu does not work on the Rinnegan, don’t forget this
Yes it does
Edo makes you physically weaker and slower Literally … Itachi Prime scales above To Him when Vs Naruto and Bee.
Great analysis and breakdown! I enjoyed the approach to this topic and your reasonings for the outcome you decided here.
"Pain doesn't have a Piccolo"
Is one of the funniest things, I've heard all week. Lmao!
19:02 Sickness/Stamina problems or not Uzumakis have shown way better Stamina feats than the Uchihas
Hi Professor_Fiction,
Could you please create a video about the comments of Itachi vs Pain and clarifies some misconceptions, mistakes, and further details of this matchup.
I read some comments that criticised you for ignoring or downplaying them, so it nice to make a follow up video.
I’ll probably go over them in a live stream
Great analysis, man
Would like to see perhaps a part two of this video with war arc pain vs war arc itachi. Itachi obviously stronger since he wasn’t sick anymore and Nagato also stronger since he had all his powers in a single body. I think it would be an interesting discussion regardless of outcome.
Another good pro-itachi argument:
1. Minato declared obito to be stronger than pain after he witnessed both of them fight at full power
2. It's stated many times throughout the series that obito and itachi were close rivals and didn't want to fight each other
3. It logically follows that itachi is stronger than pain
important to note but Obito straight up didn't invade the leaf village in fear and to avoid a fight with Itachi
@@josephisrael8959
don’t remember any of those things happening in the series, got links?
@canasdad9115 read or watch the scene where minato talks with naruto in his mental space after he gets trapped in the chibaku tensei during the pain fight
As for the itachi vs obito stuff. One statement is from the itachi light novel and the other is when obito called itachi an "eyesore" in the manga (I can't remember exactly the chapter range for that scene)
@@Azal2712 yup
@@josephisrael8959
Those are both stretches
1. No where is it implied Minato witnessed Pain’s arsenal
2. what’s the statement from the light novel? “eyesore” does not mean equal footing
finally a naruto video, waiting for the madara vs S class
After how badly Itachi fans gassed him up back in 2016-2018, this fandom will always continue to downplay him severely in response to
Ur underrated man
For the time when Pain fought naruto, Rinnegan's gravity control was one of the strongest solo-target jutsus. He could easily do something along the"bansho tennin + stab with black recievers".And from when Gaara pulled Madara out of susanoo we know that it is not solid from the inside. Even if Itachi could counter it by being in susanoo, Pain still can win, cuz Itachi is not very enduring, especially with MS. Maybe if he fought Nagato he had a small chance of winning, but 6 on 1 without quick way of one-shotting him, thats not even close.
Pain also speed blitzed Orochimaru, when he wanted him to join the Akatsuki. Also Pain still could heal the entire leaf village after destroying it, fighting Kakashi, Naruto and an eight- tails kurama
That’s a reaction feat not a blitz
I’ve seen enough, itachi clears
Let put in layman's terms. Pain has gravity and jitsu negation. While, itachi has fire and a giant puppet with a sealing sword and infinite blocking shield. Pain wins this.
subscribed for more Naruto
i don't know if you did it intentionally or not, but some of the things are way too out of context
even after seeing amaterasu, gyuki still thinks killer bee doesn't need to go full 8 tails to slam team taka (killer bee also just finished an intense training session right before team taka showed up, so he's nerfed for the whole fight)
jiraiya has 2 toad sage, who are arguably individually stronger than the likes of bunta, so even if we say hydra orochi = sage jiraiya (which might not even be the case due to how oro's hydra jutsu is known to other people while jiraiya's sage mode isn't), jiraiya + ma&pa as a whole is still drastically stronger, yet when he fights with the 3 weak pains, they gave jiraiya so much pressure (animal path is also not spamming summons) that he think the only win con is to gamble his life on a guess that he doesn't even know if it will work.
jiraiya only did as well as he did against all 6 pain because the pains didn't fight him seriously, as a reminder, deva + preta combo is a one shot to even sage naruto, who is stronger than sage jiraiya. also, pain stating there's a chance of losing to jiraiya is pretty unreliable, it's almost like a "i see 14million possible outcomes and only 1 where I lose" situation, there are so many requirement jiraiya has to fulfill perfectly to even get a chance of winning. what's worse is that ma and pa literally tries to do it in naruto vs pain, and pain just clowned on them despite only having one body left
pain is also fatigued and only using non lethal forces against naruto the entire time, the instant he got his power back up, deva and preta pretty much just insta killed sage naruto. (near "death" tendo also outperformed mental amp sage naruto after minato talked with naruto)
naruto being able to resist soul pull doesn't mean itachi can resist it, naruto was specifically trained to play soul tug of war the arc before
itachi actually doesn't have a counter to chibaku tensei, sure, he figured out its weakness, but that doesn't mean he is able to exploit it. it took the combined effort of kcm1 naruto, full 8 tail bee, and itachi to overwhelm chibaku tensei, if itachi can deal with it solo, they wouldn't need to sync all 3 of their attacks and launch them at the same time. chibaku tensei also activates so quickly that itachi can't stop it before it goes off in the manga, so the frieza beats goku up before spirit bomb analogy doesn't really work that well
Pain wins because he is cooler
Pain also no diffed Orochi just like Itachi did
not cannon, im team pain tho
even if we accept the game , didnt he only slightly push him away wih shinra tense ?
@@lukaskrivda9374 I'm not talking about game
@@Wordetto101 then which fight are you talking about?
lol yeah pain had fought literally the entire leaf village then sage Naruto still beat sage Naruto then fought 6 tails Naruto then Naruto gets a get out of jail free card and gets respawned outside of the chibaku tensei with no injuries really and then barely beats pain. Nagato then still has enough chakra to revive the whole leaf village afterwards. Itachis illness is also tied to his stamina the more he uses his mangekyo the worse his illness gets so unless it’s a hypothetical itachi with no illness once he starts using his mangekyo the clock starts ticking on how long he has to win. Itachi also needed help to beat chibaku tensei when he fought nagato he couldn’t have done it alone so if it’s one on one that’s basically GG for pain. There are several other points is disagree with too but I’m sure someone else will mention them.
I only have 1 criticism about the video. in the who is stronger section, you set up that scaling chain that seems to put pain close to the tier of sage Naruto. you probably know this, but you left out that the most troublesome pain didn't have his abilities until most of the paths were dead. as soon as he got them back the battle shifted to his favour.
I agree though for the most part that if pain arc sage Naruto could keep up with the speed of the divided paths, itachi will have no problem either, as he's more on early ems sasuke level, while Naruto at this point would be more summit sasuke's rival.
just in terms of caliber of shinobi pain is far above sage Naruto. he could have killed him if he wanted, his goal was to capture him alive. and he started without is best ability. this was my ted talk.
Pain wins y’all gotta stop glazing Itachi so much jeez.
Nice video
zetsu doesnt really call pain invincible. He said this after itachi died but even then in original Japanese he only said obito thought of a backup nothing about i cant believe pain died like viz added.
Databooks are mostly correct. Their hyperboles usually are not translated properly, not taken in context or in worst scenarios directly contradicted by feats.
They do call pain invincible but the word they use in Japanese is fuhaii which just means invincible because of an unbeaten record. Itachi is called muteki-invincible in its truest sense.
The susanoo is not called the strongest dojutsu. Its actually the mangekyo of itachi itself. The susanoo brings him on an even higher level.
The 2nd fanbook written after the pain fight also says itachis power surpasses everything so its consistent.
With storm connections obito thinks itachi is unbeatable and unsurpassable.
Overall this remains true till the war arc until madara comes.
Itachi wins this battle in general
The more juicy arguments are against rejuvenated nagato
Exactly, I’ve been saying for a long time pain gets more credit than he deserves just for being a “main villain”
I've got to disagree because orochimaru doesn't scale to jiraiya he states that he surpassed the sannin when entering sage mode so he is stronger than orchimaru also frog song is stronger than tsukuyomi so who knows if it works against pain and Itachi even in a stronger form can't destroy a planetary devastation
Edit: spelling
could you tell me when was it stated that sage mode jiraya surpassed sanin? orochimarus hydra form /hydra thing not sure if its actually for , is stated to surpass orochimaru , as for frog song been stronger than tsukuyomi is it based on third databook inside which both frog song and kotoamatsukami are called strongest genjutsu and as such databook contradict itself
Both Obito victims
Pain vs THE SOLO KING
in no universe does itachi beat pain 😂.
good video
Pain wins
My goat obito solos
W ITACHI
Goku would win
My favourite vs character debate in powerscaling history!
Huge W video, I knew you'd come come through with the right eyeball man 🙏
“I would win”
-Me Random guy and upcoming youtuber.
But fr Itachi would win but pain is “stronger”
Itachi whole thing is about finding the weakness to any jutsu and IF he was alive in PERFECT health he very well maybe STRONGER than Pain, just to mention he has more talent than Pain.
Itachi wins,great video aswell fam
Pain's portrayal is mediocre. Minato considered him as merely an obstacle. Itachi didn't even talk about Pain, only Obito. Itachi and Obito (indirectly) didn't consider Pain to be able to stand against Itachi.
Itachi stated that him and Nagato together would be nigh unstoppable, meaning he is closer to Nagato than Pain.
And then you have a nerfed edo Itachi, who "killed" a vastly superior version of Pain not once, not twice, but three times.
In the end, Itachi has more arguments in his favour. Edo Itachi undoubtedly so.
@@marwyn8152
Love it when itachi fanboys ignore naruto and bee being present
@@canasdad9115 Love it when Nagato fanboys ignore him being killed 3 times in spite of Naruto and Bee.
@@canasdad9115 werent they more liability ? i mean nagato huge amp thanks to absorbing bees chakra and itachi had to save them both
@@lukaskrivda9374
How many people did it take to destroy chibaku tensei? Who distracted Nagato while Itachi needed to sneak attack Nagato?
liability lol
@@canasdad9115 that weird retoric , its like saying kakuzu was able to survive fight with hashirama , since obviously chibaku tense created by nagato who is amp by bees chakra scale below those 3 attacks , considering itachi never before saw chibaku tense , doesnt know what are bees and narutos strongest attacks (especially after bees chakra was stolen ) but sure lets say itachi cant alone stop chibaku tense created by nagato amp by bees chakra
when did itachi seank attack nagato ? itachi used amaterasu on dog then turn around and use it on nagato so that wouldnt be sneak attack , then he save bee and naruto with his susano rather than stab him with totsuka blade , then they destroy chibaku tense and itachi speed blitz nagato with totska blade , since bee and naruto stand right next to itachi he wasnt distracted by them
Itachi ain't glazed, he's just that good
Itachi is the strongest shinobi of his generation. He didn't need madara's eyes or hashirama cell, unlike his predecessors.
Stop the downplay Jiraya is not equal to Orchimaru. Orchimaru is both equal to Hiruzen.
They're both equal to Hiruzen.
@ They are not equal to Hiruzen even in his old age.
And Obito would crush both :)
Obito is a bum without madara& hashirama cells. 😂
@@jamaulwinston490 bro have you even seen whack-a-mole jutsu?!?
Power scalers being brain dead as usual. Obviously Pain is stronger, he's their leader
I'll pick pain