What I really appreciate about Beasty is actually - He’s arguably one of the best AOE4 player and on top of that he entertains and puts out really good content + streaming. Hands down , doing both the things simultaneously and still being on top of the game is actually pretty insane!
I think Beasty excels in connecting with the audience. He translates high level language and mechanics to rookie level language. Always explains himself as best as he can so we learn a lot just from browsing his content. Definitely top 3 AOE4 channel!
They definetly need healing in feudal. Maybe keep the villager producktion at 24 seconds and make a "dragon prelate" 2 population unit with improved health, cost and healing available in feudal from the barraks that would also replace the regular prelate. Or give the aachen chapel a healing aura or single target heal like a stationary prelate.
Let Aachen Chapel give you just one prelate. It doesn't train prelates, it doesn't replace the prelate if it dies, it just gives you this one extra thing plus the 10% villager boost.
No don't make them 2 pop, just a slight upgrade like dragon villagers and like them cost 1 pop, I mean u could make them cost 2 pop but they will need a massive upgrade specially on the HP department
Thank you for releasing the vid so quickly. It is my favorite faction byt at the moment I'm to bad to play them good. So i still have to wait until they get buffed a little bit.
Beasty when you talked about the eco of ootd and the numbers from reddit, the takeaway would be that the eco bonus of ootd is missleading, but they do not have worse eco than other civs, their eco is ever so slightly better than a generic civ with no bonus for villagers (ottoman, delhi), but worse than any civ with villager bonuses
Delhi has sanctity as well (which isn't a villager bonus, but it is an economic bonus). And if you go House of Learning, you get extra carry capacity. And both castle landmarks have good options for increasing villager safety (Compound of the Defender by synergizing with Village Fortress spam, HoL with Reinforced Foundations). And walling up is easier because you don't have to send a villager to do so (saving villager time). But the main economic bonus is the ways Delhi can use scholars (especially but not limited to the free techs). The total value of researched techs can be really huge (especially in imperial age), but it has a downside in that it's hard to rush a specific tech (generally a net positive imo).
You have no idea how faster gather rate creates deminishing returns, do you? 25% faster gather rate is unequal to 25% more res per minute, its closer to 15-17% more res/min and thats what you see with ootd, thats why there eco is worse then from any base civ.
Something about being so overwhelmed kills them for me I have this beautiful golden army of about 60-80 and no matter the fight going agains a 120 or so is just not even close. Early game it’s in your favor but once all the upgrades come into play being overwhelmed is an issue
How about this? Make chapel with 5 garrison slots, no weapon emplacements, just any unit inside gets healed. This will make it easier to protect villagers and sustain feudal age units. Maybe even have a castle/imperial upgrade to increase slots or have a relic inside to boost healing rate. Together with 1 prelate spawn at cathedral may solve the downsides, but it may "kill" the other landmarks.
Hey Beasty, I just found your Plastic League Heroes series today and imo it's among the best aoe4 content 😂. Any chance you're gonna do some in the near future or more regularly?
Found ootd to be a good civ to counter English longbow ram rush. I scouted him and saw that he went all in for that so instead of risking going Castle or even horsemen with fear of him going spears I figured my archers will counter his archers. My ootd archers absolutely melted the longbows. Also meinwerk helped a lot. So a tip is to counter the opponent with whatever he is making
Rather than prelate in feudal age, they should have a tech upgrade that lets their units heal slowly when out of battle, like chivalry, but more expensive.
I'd like to see a Guilded Scout with some unique ability. It's the only OTD unit that's normal, which goes against the elite unit premise for OTD. I mean, even the villagers are gilded, and not even a military unit. I'll pay 90 food for some unique scout action.
Option1: I think a good fix for OOTD would be that the prelates can inspire vils and give them a 5% boost on top of what they get normally (which can only be accessed in castle) and 10% in imp and make the Aachen boost the vils by 15% instead of the 10. Option 2: Alternatively have the vils train in 20 sec so you techically have more vils than other civs like the french do.
Early prelates would make the civ so much better and smoother to play, BUT... Early prelates are HRE thing. Its their identity. It is the feature that makes HRE stand on its own rather than being worse OotD. The devs can't just buff OotD with prelates or the difference between both civs would become blurry. Which is sad because prelates fit OotD playstyle better than HRE. Unless the devs plan on reworking the HRE, the QoL for OotD must take another path.
How do you feel about auxiliary units being added to the roster? Rather than tweak the economy, etc... add a chapterhouse that you can recruit Voivode Cavalry (medium one population cavalry), Hungarian Militia, or other middling troops that can buff your army's numbers and stretch your resources, but you absolutely do NOT want to rely only on them. This would be kind of like how Landsknecht are good against masses of infantry, but die horrifically to ranged. These troops would be situational and help with some pacing. It would also play into how the actual Order of the Dragon was a multi-national knightly order...
One bonus could be spawning the relevant unit for landmarks when built. Chapel can spawn a prelate, then Regnintz can spawn a prelate, giving you extra tempo for relics. Meinwerk and Burger can also spawn one, then maybe two man-at-arms. Also, maybe chapel needs a 15% boost and even meinwerk can provide a 10% boost for mining only.
What about OOTD starting with a prelate like HRE stick no option to build one until castle but that would give them a slight eco boost early and a way to heal. They would still have to be very careful with it because they couldn't replace it until castle.
What confuses me the most is that the devs designed the HRE burgrave around the HRE unique units which are melee units but the OOTD ranged units are pretty good and are part of the civs identity so why does the OOTD burgrave not produce ranged units as well. That would be a massive game change imo just like the English council hall change to include more than longbows gave them a huge boost in castle. Also I think the burgrave producing faster for OOTD would be nice
I think they are the best dark age rush civ tho. You can tower rush with spearman on gold in 1v1 by 1:43. your spearman has +1 armor which makes them take 20+attacks for enemy spearman to kill while you kill them in 8 hits, so it's better than 2 spearman and you save a barracks worth of wood so no one beats you in dark age.
Has anyone made a unit chart for OoTD vs reg units? Like 1 OotD spear can take 2 reg spears, 2 horsemen, or 1 knight on it's own, etc? Would be great to know just what fights to take in feudal for Spears, Horsemen, MAA and Archers.
It's somewhere on reddit, overall they're tuned to be around equal to 2 generic units, they are better in some matchups and they are worse in other matchups
I think OotD military is balaced. Their eco is lacking a bit. Villagers should train in 22 seconds should do the trick, or buff their gather rate to 30%.
The ORderi s a struggle. I like to play team games, Plat 3, and I can't win a game with OOTD (main ayyubid or dehli). Sure, I can win some battles, kill toins of villagers, and get the relic. But the enemy always, always, has more villagers and army than me, and if I lose a single battle, it's basically GG
i feel like you fail to mention the power of those crossbows. the range and attack speed with the armor pen makes them straight up forceful. i feel a good buff for them would be raising their supply unit count to 220.
OOTD late game villagers efficient is similar to other civs, better than some civ but not the best. For example Abbasid has golden age 3, Chinese farm also faster and unique upgrade for all resource gather max +16% and officers get more gold, HRE prelate buff 50% gathering, etc. Age4 OTTD econ can catch up other civs mainly because villager printer landmark.
I personally won 2 games where I was alone in a 2v2 situation using OOTD, if you mass make units that counter what your fighting and mangos you could be good. I'm no professional and don't think you need to copy me, this is what I did and lucky won those games.
Lanchester's Law should counter out the effects of less overkill on them though, right? Like, whenever you have 2 units vs 1 unit and run them against each other, OOTD should only take half damage after killing 1 enemy.
Sort of it should, but given the issues they have with their economy, they tend to face odds of 3 to 1 or worse, which tends to cancel out the benefits of extra beefy units for double cost/pop.
In a no micro straight clash yeah, but 2 armies poking and micro’ing is really bad for OTD. They need to force the full fight head on as often as possible.
Melee units, in general, have double HP (100% more) than its counterparts, but not double damage. For example, HRE feudal man-at-arms has 7.27 dps, while the gilded man-at-arms has 12.44 dps, a 71% increase. Spearmen have a 42% dps increase, but the bonus damage to cavalry is doubled. So Lanchester's law is more or less already accounted in the stat calculations. The devs really though about this one.
Devs probably weakened OotD economy because of attrition. Say I spam archers and you do too, and say we micro as well and all else is kept equal. On average, you're just going to be losing more stuff due to attrition; every time you deal enough damage to kill an archer, you just brought one of mine down by half. Every time I deal enough to kill an archer, you lose one archer. I don't know if the devs balanced it properly. Also OotD players as far as I can tell don't attempt to maximize attrition in their play yet (e.g. by healing more frequently).
100 pop vs 100 pop their armies just simply always lose. (with no counter units being at play) Abysmal Pop efficiency, their better villagers are not good enough to cope for that. One thing is for certain, they are not an easy civ to play, quite the opposite. An easy to play civ should just be able to bully their enemies if they dont build counter units, but that is not the case at all, the order is the one being bullied.
Knight and MAA are countered heavily by Musofadi Warrior who has bonus damage to heavy units. And musofadi warrior can be produced as early as feudal age.
beasty is the only good top pro who comment honestly about what he thinks towards aoe4, a lot of people jus quiet and dont comment and say their thoughts
What I really appreciate about Beasty is actually - He’s arguably one of the best AOE4 player and on top of that he entertains and puts out really good content + streaming. Hands down , doing both the things simultaneously and still being on top of the game is actually pretty insane!
One of the best? I thought he was the best.
@@patrickhenry1249 with Core around? Not a chance
I think Beasty excels in connecting with the audience. He translates high level language and mechanics to rookie level language. Always explains himself as best as he can so we learn a lot just from browsing his content. Definitely top 3 AOE4 channel!
His girlfriend plays Malians like a gosh darn beast as well
Semantics, I know, but he is objectively one of the best and arguably the best.
They definetly need healing in feudal. Maybe keep the villager producktion at 24 seconds and make a "dragon prelate" 2 population unit with improved health, cost and healing available in feudal from the barraks that would also replace the regular prelate. Or give the aachen chapel a healing aura or single target heal like a stationary prelate.
The aura to the Aachen would be more enticing. I haven't used Aachen once since moving to OotD from HRE.
Let Aachen Chapel give you just one prelate. It doesn't train prelates, it doesn't replace the prelate if it dies, it just gives you this one extra thing plus the 10% villager boost.
I agree about the “Dragon Prelate”. Perhaps it can be trained from TC and have an AOE healing aura out of combat
No don't make them 2 pop, just a slight upgrade like dragon villagers and like them cost 1 pop, I mean u could make them cost 2 pop but they will need a massive upgrade specially on the HP department
Thank you for releasing the vid so quickly. It is my favorite faction byt at the moment I'm to bad to play them good. So i still have to wait until they get buffed a little bit.
Beasty when you talked about the eco of ootd and the numbers from reddit, the takeaway would be that the eco bonus of ootd is missleading, but they do not have worse eco than other civs, their eco is ever so slightly better than a generic civ with no bonus for villagers (ottoman, delhi), but worse than any civ with villager bonuses
Hey! We Delhi players go great eco!
We got berries!
And free research!
And uh...
We got berries! 🍒
Delhi has sanctity as well (which isn't a villager bonus, but it is an economic bonus). And if you go House of Learning, you get extra carry capacity. And both castle landmarks have good options for increasing villager safety (Compound of the Defender by synergizing with Village Fortress spam, HoL with Reinforced Foundations). And walling up is easier because you don't have to send a villager to do so (saving villager time). But the main economic bonus is the ways Delhi can use scholars (especially but not limited to the free techs). The total value of researched techs can be really huge (especially in imperial age), but it has a downside in that it's hard to rush a specific tech (generally a net positive imo).
Best thing about delhi is mindlessly clicking green buttons for free@@jasonsmith1950
You have no idea how faster gather rate creates deminishing returns, do you? 25% faster gather rate is unequal to 25% more res per minute, its closer to 15-17% more res/min and thats what you see with ootd, thats why there eco is worse then from any base civ.
Something about being so overwhelmed kills them for me I have this beautiful golden army of about 60-80 and no matter the fight going agains a 120 or so is just not even close. Early game it’s in your favor but once all the upgrades come into play being overwhelmed is an issue
How about this? Make chapel with 5 garrison slots, no weapon emplacements, just any unit inside gets healed. This will make it easier to protect villagers and sustain feudal age units. Maybe even have a castle/imperial upgrade to increase slots or have a relic inside to boost healing rate. Together with 1 prelate spawn at cathedral may solve the downsides, but it may "kill" the other landmarks.
Since it's so easy to snipe or surround priests especially since other civs can mass unites I'd love to see gilded prelates with more hp or armour
Hey Beasty, I just found your Plastic League Heroes series today and imo it's among the best aoe4 content 😂. Any chance you're gonna do some in the near future or more regularly?
Could also be funny to see you level up a new account on 1 vs 1 using a controller xD
Simple fix for the OotD economy, allow them to start with 6 Villagers like all the other Civs.
Found ootd to be a good civ to counter English longbow ram rush. I scouted him and saw that he went all in for that so instead of risking going Castle or even horsemen with fear of him going spears I figured my archers will counter his archers. My ootd archers absolutely melted the longbows. Also meinwerk helped a lot. So a tip is to counter the opponent with whatever he is making
Rather than prelate in feudal age, they should have a tech upgrade that lets their units heal slowly when out of battle, like chivalry, but more expensive.
I'd like to see a Guilded Scout with some unique ability. It's the only OTD unit that's normal, which goes against the elite unit premise for OTD. I mean, even the villagers are gilded, and not even a military unit. I'll pay 90 food for some unique scout action.
Option1: I think a good fix for OOTD would be that the prelates can inspire vils and give them a 5% boost on top of what they get normally (which can only be accessed in castle) and 10% in imp and make the Aachen boost the vils by 15% instead of the 10.
Option 2: Alternatively have the vils train in 20 sec so you techically have more vils than other civs like the french do.
are there more people like me who randomly clap and say gamers. just because we’re habitual 😂
I can't support this unless he does the flat universe opening.
I say "All around the flat universe."
Early prelates would make the civ so much better and smoother to play, BUT...
Early prelates are HRE thing. Its their identity. It is the feature that makes HRE stand on its own rather than being worse OotD. The devs can't just buff OotD with prelates or the difference between both civs would become blurry.
Which is sad because prelates fit OotD playstyle better than HRE. Unless the devs plan on reworking the HRE, the QoL for OotD must take another path.
I fucking love OOTD
How do you feel about auxiliary units being added to the roster? Rather than tweak the economy, etc... add a chapterhouse that you can recruit Voivode Cavalry (medium one population cavalry), Hungarian Militia, or other middling troops that can buff your army's numbers and stretch your resources, but you absolutely do NOT want to rely only on them. This would be kind of like how Landsknecht are good against masses of infantry, but die horrifically to ranged. These troops would be situational and help with some pacing.
It would also play into how the actual Order of the Dragon was a multi-national knightly order...
One bonus could be spawning the relevant unit for landmarks when built. Chapel can spawn a prelate, then Regnintz can spawn a prelate, giving you extra tempo for relics. Meinwerk and Burger can also spawn one, then maybe two man-at-arms. Also, maybe chapel needs a 15% boost and even meinwerk can provide a 10% boost for mining only.
What about OOTD starting with a prelate like HRE stick no option to build one until castle but that would give them a slight eco boost early and a way to heal. They would still have to be very careful with it because they couldn't replace it until castle.
You could say that OOTD units are...quite beasty.
Chapel boost should be 20% instead of 10%. 15% a minimum, but 20% probably would fix early economy issues.
fact- OOTD is actually good on smaller maps. you can do spear rush
seeing a couple ootg spearmen + handcanoniers mow down a legion of knights is fun
Do their Knights and units cost any more supply?
What confuses me the most is that the devs designed the HRE burgrave around the HRE unique units which are melee units but the OOTD ranged units are pretty good and are part of the civs identity so why does the OOTD burgrave not produce ranged units as well. That would be a massive game change imo just like the English council hall change to include more than longbows gave them a huge boost in castle. Also I think the burgrave producing faster for OOTD would be nice
I think they are the best dark age rush civ tho. You can tower rush with spearman on gold in 1v1 by 1:43. your spearman has +1 armor which makes them take 20+attacks for enemy spearman to kill while you kill them in 8 hits, so it's better than 2 spearman and you save a barracks worth of wood so no one beats you in dark age.
Easier to snipe their priest as well. Less units to act as a buffer or even hide within the mass.
Has anyone made a unit chart for OoTD vs reg units? Like 1 OotD spear can take 2 reg spears, 2 horsemen, or 1 knight on it's own, etc? Would be great to know just what fights to take in feudal for Spears, Horsemen, MAA and Archers.
It's somewhere on reddit, overall they're tuned to be around equal to 2 generic units, they are better in some matchups and they are worse in other matchups
QUAL LINK@@TheDerpiestSir
I think OotD military is balaced. Their eco is lacking a bit. Villagers should train in 22 seconds should do the trick, or buff their gather rate to 30%.
And vacuum fish from the sea at 100 food per second
The ORderi s a struggle. I like to play team games, Plat 3, and I can't win a game with OOTD (main ayyubid or dehli). Sure, I can win some battles, kill toins of villagers, and get the relic. But the enemy always, always, has more villagers and army than me, and if I lose a single battle, it's basically GG
i feel like you fail to mention the power of those crossbows. the range and attack speed with the armor pen makes them straight up forceful. i feel a good buff for them would be raising their supply unit count to 220.
OOTD late game villagers efficient is similar to other civs, better than some civ but not the best. For example Abbasid has golden age 3, Chinese farm also faster and unique upgrade for all resource gather max +16% and officers get more gold, HRE prelate buff 50% gathering, etc. Age4 OTTD econ can catch up other civs mainly because villager printer landmark.
I personally won 2 games where I was alone in a 2v2 situation using OOTD, if you mass make units that counter what your fighting and mangos you could be good. I'm no professional and don't think you need to copy me, this is what I did and lucky won those games.
Is Chapel still weak? I see You building it in Your latest games.
Age 4 hand cannon for ootd is the John wick of aoe4
Indeed. I changed my main civ from the rus to the ootd and I love playing them. Don't feel that they need huge buffs.
Lanchester's Law should counter out the effects of less overkill on them though, right? Like, whenever you have 2 units vs 1 unit and run them against each other, OOTD should only take half damage after killing 1 enemy.
Sort of it should, but given the issues they have with their economy, they tend to face odds of 3 to 1 or worse, which tends to cancel out the benefits of extra beefy units for double cost/pop.
In a no micro straight clash yeah, but 2 armies poking and micro’ing is really bad for OTD. They need to force the full fight head on as often as possible.
No disagreement here.@@ChosenPlaysYT
Melee units, in general, have double HP (100% more) than its counterparts, but not double damage. For example, HRE feudal man-at-arms has 7.27 dps, while the gilded man-at-arms has 12.44 dps, a 71% increase. Spearmen have a 42% dps increase, but the bonus damage to cavalry is doubled. So Lanchester's law is more or less already accounted in the stat calculations. The devs really though about this one.
Devs probably weakened OotD economy because of attrition.
Say I spam archers and you do too, and say we micro as well and all else is kept equal. On average, you're just going to be losing more stuff due to attrition; every time you deal enough damage to kill an archer, you just brought one of mine down by half. Every time I deal enough to kill an archer, you lose one archer.
I don't know if the devs balanced it properly. Also OotD players as far as I can tell don't attempt to maximize attrition in their play yet (e.g. by healing more frequently).
The math doesnt add Up. They Need to Double all the Stats. They can get sourrounded one Shot.
100 pop vs 100 pop their armies just simply always lose. (with no counter units being at play)
Abysmal Pop efficiency, their better villagers are not good enough to cope for that.
One thing is for certain, they are not an easy civ to play, quite the opposite.
An easy to play civ should just be able to bully their enemies if they dont build counter units, but that is not the case at all, the order is the one being bullied.
Malians are ESY with dark age rush in my opinion
Are you saying you play OotD and dark age rush Malians? What build do you follow?
So far Malians have been the most challenging on Quick Match for me.
GILDED PRELATES
How come Malians counter OTD? how can they deal with knights and Man at arms?
Knight and MAA are countered heavily by Musofadi Warrior who has bonus damage to heavy units. And musofadi warrior can be produced as early as feudal age.
@@hawkster8951 Yes, but they are low health. Very easy to deal with archers, right?
@@Zeus1s knights get countered by donso, the javelin shot is deadly vs ootd.
beasty is the only good top pro who comment honestly about what he thinks towards aoe4, a lot of people jus quiet and dont comment and say their thoughts
they just need a full rework man
first!
Second!