Ive been goth for over a decade and the androgeny of the fashion helped me so much with my confidence and finding out my gender identity. I love being able to go back and forth between masculine and feminine and mixing the two. Goth fashion just feels so liberating and freeing.
I never really thought about it, but you're 100% right when it comes to makeup. Why the general public doesn't accept men wearing makeup, but nobody bats an eye if it's paired with goth fashion? That's weird.
I think that it's because goth ppl are already seen as weird and idk, the goth make up kinda tie the outfit together sometimes while if you see a guy with basic clothing wearing make up, the make up will stand out more than the fit
Its crazy because thats why i got into goth fashion, im a man and wanted to wear makeup but was tired and afraid of all the homophobia i was getting, all you need to do is give some gothic vibes and people also stop assuming you are 100% gay for wearing makeup/displaying androgony (altough they do -correctly- assume queerness)
Hello and thank you so much! I am a gothic steampunk man. Sometimes I wear long 'feminine' skirts, as well as dresses and petticoats. Gothic fashion truly knows no gender boundaries, and this is liberating for many people who want to break the mold. You have only one limit, your imagination and creativity. I also wear hat and tshirts 🤘🏻
Just started the video, but I wanted to say thank you for bringing up the nuance and differences between "gender-neutral/genderless" and "androgynous." Because, it's right in the word, andro (masculine) gyno (feminine) - it's *both* masculine *and* feminine, not neither. (Tho I understand words change meaning over time, I just personally find it more useful to actually have a term to describe the mixing of masculinity and femininity rather than a third term to describe lack of masculinity/femininity). Edit: ALSO thank you for bringing up how most clothing or outfits referred to or thought of as "gender-neutral" is really just traditionally masculine clothing. Always interesting to see how things designed for men are seen as "default" (ungendered, in this case) and things designed for women are seen as deviation from the default (inherently gendered, in this case).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm sincerely happy reading this. It is quite disappointing (at least, for me) to see genderless outfits being mostly masculine.
I usually dress very casually, comfortably, pants, t-shirts and boots. When I go out it's the same, but for important outings I usually wear a skirt. In the past I dressed more masculine, or at least what it was from my point of view, wearing shirts, which I still have. Depending on the weather is the way I dress.
Most "genderless" things just go by the logic of male as the default an female as the other, so in turn all they do is make traditionally masculine clothing kinda oversized and call it a day. Gothic fashion is very different, it grabbed things we would consider feminine and *took the gender out of it*, concentrating on aesthetic and pushing boundaries. They work in different ways and this is why I love gothic fashion so much, it's true gender abolition.
May the spirit of Pride Month linger! Hope this is not too late to celebrate. By the way, do you have particular preferences for your wardrobe? Edit: English subtitles added!
never too late! (〃´ω`〃) hehe I've been really getting into (p)leather! there are so many fun ways to incorporate leather into clothes and accessories. also: velvety felt. especially as a choker. ♡
I loved how well researched this video is and you back up your points clearly and concisely. For me as a genderfluid person, I love how fluid and free gothic fashion can be.
as an agender (masc-leaning) person who's still kind of a baby bat, these goth men are giving me so much gender envy... especially the victorian goths. oh to actually dress like that someday...
I prefer comfortable clothes but not plain ones. Usually gender neutral with masculine leaning or just masculine ones. I like to wear long pants and layers and that's why I hate summer. But I often like to experiment with my outfits.
I find goth fashion and subculture very comforting because of the nonconformity that extends to gender. I consider my gender to just be androgynous and I find that it's easier to pull off that kind of look when you're goth or emo rather than the mainstream in which male or female fashion is clearly delineated.
I've always felt like gothic styles are extremely distinct when it comes to what men and women wear (for example, in cybergoth and romantic goth, women will wear tight clothes, corsets, low hemlines, and fishnets, while men are more covered up and wear looser, more boxy clothing) but the points you made were quite interesting
Hence why alt fashion choices appealed to me (and many other young queers) while I was exploring my gender expression! (Still appeals to me now, but I try to branch out more often nowadays!)
At 51 I became non binary, back in my 20s I was naturally pretty into make up and occasionally burrowed clothes including skirts from my Girlfriend. I have remained a fan of alternative music and style since and went to a club at the weekend where there were many much younger goths and I discovered several were NB, I wonder if we had the term back then many of us would have gone with it.
This is really good, but I go one step further. Honestly I take the gender label on the item or style, and throw it away. With few exceptions all clothing is genderless, and the androgyny of the scene is what pulled me into the scene. I wear gowns, dresses, skirts, leggings, catsuits, flowy blouses, "Men's" dress shirts, tights, heels, pikes...etc, and all while presenting as male, even if quite "feminine" looking. Goth is the perfect setting to test out such styles, but it's even better getting them out of the confines of goth events and out in the mainstream. :P
I think that goth fashion is mostly gendered...clothes meant to accentuate the male or female body. However goth fashion allows for the mixing of these into an outfit wearable by either male or female. Goths with their artistic sensibilities make it work spectacularly! As a man, I frequently combine a maxi skirt with a more masculine top and it just comes together looking really good...particularly in the way it adds dramatic effect while out on the dance floor either swirling about to ethereal music or stomping around to industrial!
Ive been goth for over a decade and the androgeny of the fashion helped me so much with my confidence and finding out my gender identity. I love being able to go back and forth between masculine and feminine and mixing the two. Goth fashion just feels so liberating and freeing.
I never really thought about it, but you're 100% right when it comes to makeup. Why the general public doesn't accept men wearing makeup, but nobody bats an eye if it's paired with goth fashion? That's weird.
Ikr. Actually, I didn't recognise this as well until I start dissecting the goth fashion. It's weird but it's interesting.
I think that it's because goth ppl are already seen as weird and idk, the goth make up kinda tie the outfit together sometimes while if you see a guy with basic clothing wearing make up, the make up will stand out more than the fit
i think it’s because of how “costumey” it can feel/look. to outsiders, it isnt means of beautification in the same way everyday makeup is.
Its crazy because thats why i got into goth fashion, im a man and wanted to wear makeup but was tired and afraid of all the homophobia i was getting, all you need to do is give some gothic vibes and people also stop assuming you are 100% gay for wearing makeup/displaying androgony (altough they do -correctly- assume queerness)
Hello and thank you so much!
I am a gothic steampunk man. Sometimes I wear long 'feminine' skirts, as well as dresses and petticoats. Gothic fashion truly knows no gender boundaries, and this is liberating for many people who want to break the mold. You have only one limit, your imagination and creativity. I also wear hat and tshirts 🤘🏻
Just started the video, but I wanted to say thank you for bringing up the nuance and differences between "gender-neutral/genderless" and "androgynous." Because, it's right in the word, andro (masculine) gyno (feminine) - it's *both* masculine *and* feminine, not neither. (Tho I understand words change meaning over time, I just personally find it more useful to actually have a term to describe the mixing of masculinity and femininity rather than a third term to describe lack of masculinity/femininity).
Edit: ALSO thank you for bringing up how most clothing or outfits referred to or thought of as "gender-neutral" is really just traditionally masculine clothing. Always interesting to see how things designed for men are seen as "default" (ungendered, in this case) and things designed for women are seen as deviation from the default (inherently gendered, in this case).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'm sincerely happy reading this. It is quite disappointing (at least, for me) to see genderless outfits being mostly masculine.
I usually dress very casually, comfortably, pants, t-shirts and boots. When I go out it's the same, but for important outings I usually wear a skirt. In the past I dressed more masculine, or at least what it was from my point of view, wearing shirts, which I still have. Depending on the weather is the way I dress.
Thanks for sharing!
Most "genderless" things just go by the logic of male as the default an female as the other, so in turn all they do is make traditionally masculine clothing kinda oversized and call it a day.
Gothic fashion is very different, it grabbed things we would consider feminine and *took the gender out of it*, concentrating on aesthetic and pushing boundaries.
They work in different ways and this is why I love gothic fashion so much, it's true gender abolition.
Love that presentation, short yet quite detailed, and the reflection about androgyny VS genderlessness. Thank you for that vid !
Glad you find it enjoyable! Thanks for telling me too. It means a lot
May the spirit of Pride Month linger! Hope this is not too late to celebrate.
By the way, do you have particular preferences for your wardrobe?
Edit: English subtitles added!
never too late! (〃´ω`〃) hehe
I've been really getting into (p)leather! there are so many fun ways to incorporate leather into clothes and accessories. also: velvety felt. especially as a choker. ♡
@@itsaerugo Sounds cool! I'm quite into leather accessories these days as well.
I loved how well researched this video is and you back up your points clearly and concisely. For me as a genderfluid person, I love how fluid and free gothic fashion can be.
I love your illustrations in this video, they're so well-done and cute!
as an agender (masc-leaning) person who's still kind of a baby bat, these goth men are giving me so much gender envy... especially the victorian goths. oh to actually dress like that someday...
You did a great job explaining this to everyone 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 & now I'm sure people will understand the differences
Thank you! I really hope so. ^^
@@kjrasa well you can't say you didn't try if they don't understand it 😂
I prefer comfortable clothes but not plain ones. Usually gender neutral with masculine leaning or just masculine ones. I like to wear long pants and layers and that's why I hate summer. But I often like to experiment with my outfits.
Ahh I feel you. It's quite challenging to style in Summer for sure. Though layering sheer clothing helps sometimes but it could still be too hot ;;
I find goth fashion and subculture very comforting because of the nonconformity that extends to gender. I consider my gender to just be androgynous and I find that it's easier to pull off that kind of look when you're goth or emo rather than the mainstream in which male or female fashion is clearly delineated.
I've always felt like gothic styles are extremely distinct when it comes to what men and women wear (for example, in cybergoth and romantic goth, women will wear tight clothes, corsets, low hemlines, and fishnets, while men are more covered up and wear looser, more boxy clothing) but the points you made were quite interesting
I am trying my best to get into Goth and the fashion is honestly one of the most interesting thing
I’ve been spam watching your content. I love the gothic lore you create 🖤
Very interesting channel and this video was very insightful into goth fashion. I'm looking forward to more of your content.
Thanks for commenting and being here too.
Hence why alt fashion choices appealed to me (and many other young queers) while I was exploring my gender expression! (Still appeals to me now, but I try to branch out more often nowadays!)
To quote Slipknot:
"ANDROGYNY AND INSULTS, YOU TRY SO HARD TO BE DIFFICULT!! You want to win the war? KNOW WHAT YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR!!!"
thank you for such a wonderful video!🖤🦇
At 51 I became non binary, back in my 20s I was naturally pretty into make up and occasionally burrowed clothes including skirts from my Girlfriend. I have remained a fan of alternative music and style since and went to a club at the weekend where there were many much younger goths and I discovered several were NB, I wonder if we had the term back then many of us would have gone with it.
I love it, thanks!!!!
what was the song being played on the 1:23😿
Black leather by Nightmares in wax
This is really good, but I go one step further. Honestly I take the gender label on the item or style, and throw it away. With few exceptions all clothing is genderless, and the androgyny of the scene is what pulled me into the scene. I wear gowns, dresses, skirts, leggings, catsuits, flowy blouses, "Men's" dress shirts, tights, heels, pikes...etc, and all while presenting as male, even if quite "feminine" looking. Goth is the perfect setting to test out such styles, but it's even better getting them out of the confines of goth events and out in the mainstream. :P
ᚻᚫᚢ᛫ᚫᛒᚫᚢᛏ᛫ᚾᚩ
I think that goth fashion is mostly gendered...clothes meant to accentuate the male or female body. However goth fashion allows for the mixing of these into an outfit wearable by either male or female. Goths with their artistic sensibilities make it work spectacularly! As a man, I frequently combine a maxi skirt with a more masculine top and it just comes together looking really good...particularly in the way it adds dramatic effect while out on the dance floor either swirling about to ethereal music or stomping around to industrial!