Beating Tesla? - Solenoid Engine Car
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2021
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Can a solenoid engine power a car? is it any good? lets find out!
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Хобби
Not only does it look great but the sound it makes makes it feel almost like a train.
Yeah, it sounds awesome
It's got a nice rhythm!
But electric motor is more simple and beneficial
Maybe that could be next on the list 🤔
@@kevalsuthar2939 Not everything about stats kiddo
A fly wheel to soak up and store energy . Will Smooth out the power curve.
Very cool! You could put an encoder on the shaft to measure the actual rotation with the Arduino.
also you might be able to make the solenoids smoother by driving them with a sine wave.
That will improve it for sure
Yes, definitely you should do this. Easy addition, big improvement and will let you control it to go in reverse too!
@@Thepracticalengineer no it would not.
@@hinkelstein4six Yes it would. Didn't you see the timing issues ?
@@sayonicad8931 the problem is not the timing. The problem is these solenoids inside of these nice looking performance killing aluminium cups.
I think the problem with the choppy running is because you're trying to replicate the layout of an internal combustion engine, when a solenoid behaves much more closely to a steam engine.
with an ICE you only have a relatively short power stroke, with an instant burst of power at the top of the stroke that then gradually peters out as the cylinder is pushed down by the explosive force. with a steam engine however high pressure steam steam is entering the cylinder for the entire power stroke (typically using a sliding valve to regulate the timing, as the faster an SE runs the less steam it needs for each stroke). just like how a solenoid uses an electric current to drive the rod down for the entirety of its stroke. A solenoid can also be reversed just like a steam engine, you just have to reverse the polarity rather than redirecting steam.
in this case I feel you would get superior running if you removed two of the solenoids and made the two remaining ones double acting, meaning they can fire in both forward and reverse. I would also recommend arranging the crank to a 90 degree offset rather than 180 degree, as this means there's always a power stroke occurring no matter what point of rotation the crank is at and it's impossible to stall. this would make the engine as a whole more compact and you would get a smoother torque cycle for the rotation of the crank and if you used an inline bank of 3 solenoids offset on the crank by 120 degrees then you would get an even smoother application of power as you now have 6 power strokes in a revolution rather than just 4.
Thanks for the very elaborate answer! I'm definitely going to look into this and improve it further!
But I enjoy sharing the progress in videos like this.
A normal continuous, springless solenoid will not reverse direction if you reverse the polarity.
When a solenoid coil has current applied to it, in either direction, it will create a Lorentz Force to pull the iron core towards the center of the coil. The iron core increases the permeability of the inductor core, and decreases the reluctance against the magnetomotive force, creating a higher inductance.
Edit- An example of the phenomenon above can be seen with a traditional horseshoe U magnet. The ends are generating a Lorentz Force to pull each other together in order to reduce their reluctance. This conventionally is just the magnetic force of north and south pole attraction. If a material is introduced that can reduce the reluctance such as an iron rod, the magnetic field will detect this change and create a Lorentz Force to pull the bar in, generating the bars own magnetic field and attracting it. Once the bar is attracted, it will possess North and South poles opposite to the magnet, and on a molecular level you will find there are smaller magnetic fields with their own north and south poles chain linked together.
If the stroke is long enough to bring a sufficient amount of the core out of the inductor both ways, then it would be possible, but you would have to design a circuit that breaks down the magnetic field of the inductor very fast (Back EMF dissipation) instead of a standard flyback diode, and have two open ends on your solenoid.
@@JakeTheCake254 Thank you for the correction, that is my mistake. My normal experience with Solenoids is in model railway layouts where they have been used for decades as the main method for remotely controlling track points/switches, and when I think back they do indeed use two coils to allow the rod to be reverse
@@Thepracticalengineer Jacob Higgins has provided a correction that is worth reading before going any further with plans, which is that Solenoids are not reversible like I had thought when I first made the comment. in light of this new information a inline bank of three solenoids with a crank offset of 120 degrees would be the best arrangement and would in theory give an even torque application throughout the crank's rotation almost like a three pole motor.
now the following is admittedly overcomplicated for a type of motor that only needs an on/off switch, but I have wondered whether it would be possible to adapt a traditional steam engine valve gear such as walschaerts (which I find to be fascinating to watch when in motion) to slide a contact wiper back and forth between the polarity switches for two opposed solenoids driving the same "piston", thereby making a double acting solenoid that works and looks like a steam engine, and would adjusting the cut-off (that is to say gradually pulling the revers from full forward back to neutral to gradually scale back the amount of travel of the valve spindle) have the same effect as on a steam engine, with shorter bursts of power per stroke allowing the engine to run faster on less electricity.
If you really want a challenge, maybe also look into the rotary camshaft valve gears such as Caprotti and Lentz that were developed towards the end of steam and see if they could be adapted.
@@NovaCoronaSolarisBlast If you guys keep going with these motor designes I think you might be creating inventions that could appear in stories which could be a new derivative of Steampunk that I would term as Electropunk.
I'm subscribing. I think your problem solving has its own unique properties. I enjoy watching and seeing the evolution of your interesting construction projects. Thanks for sharing on so many levels. It's fun and entertaining.
Geweldig leuk!!!
Goed dat je nog even hebt doorgezet!
Ja he! Resultaat was toch wat beter
@@Thepracticalengineer zeker, merkbare verbetering. Ik ben ook erg benieuwd naar je wankel motor…
Netjes! Leuk project. Ik ga je volgen. Ook mooi video werk en bondige commentaren zonder nodeloos geklets. Complimenten!
Dankjewel Jan willem!
Mooi gemaakt echt super knap met dat programmeren
Compact design and outstanding engineering. Keep rising.. ❤️👍
I think you need a good capacitors to deliver high amount of charge from the battery before going through the solenoid engine coil.. By doing that, it will generate high amount of torque judging the size of those solenoids as well as the engine strokes..
By the way, the solenoids engine sounds really nice.. Love your creativity.. Keep it up good work!
Great video! I know the feeling, sometimes it takes many attempts to get the electronics working right!
It sure does. The thing is that electronics are newer to me than mechanics.
You could try a different engine type. A radial engine would probably work best for a solenoid engine, since it's much easier to keep the firing pattern going at higher speeds without missing strokes. Another option would be to change the crankshaft to a cross-plane shaft or to increase the piston count to 6 or 8, since it makes it much smoother since the gaps between power strokes is smaller.
This is the second-coolest thing I have seen today! Ha! :-)
Damn, what was the coolest?
@@Thepracticalengineer I agree, what was the coolest?
Mooi gedaan. Concept werkt. Lijkt mijn eerste auto wel 😉
haha ging die ook zo langzaam?
Subbed in an instant. Good content.
The sound is already great.
Its great isn't it
Nice work!
An electric engine like this would be great for making an all electric car with a stick shift and clutch, for use in sports like drifting, or rally where shifting skill is half of the fun while driving.
It saves the feel of the sport while being more green because performance cars normally have very bad emissions.
Well unfortunately solenoid engines aren't as efficient as internal combustion engines. The magnets don't produce as much power as a fuel-fired piston. However I do believe this technology will still progress, and we may eventually see more solenoid engines for cars. Plus there's even tests for attempts of making renewable fuels that release no carbon when burned. Imagine alternative fuel and solenoid engines being together in the car industry
Yeah and its a 2 stroke also. Imagine an electromagnetic 2 stroke engine which taped aetheric ZPE and needs no batteries or messy chemical fuels. you just start it and go and with awsome torque and power to weight ratio. Much more power than these shitty 4 joke strokes we are all stuck with. This could be used to make a 1500hp or more v8 electromagnetic 2 stroke dodge charger. Next plasmoids are formed in the chambers for real sound of a big v8 2 stroke!
Cool idea keep up the work
great project bro
Thanks!
Great project! Zehr gut!
Het is echt wel een mooie auto geworden en hij werkt ook nog is! ;-)
6:45 Dat is wel interessant :) Ga ik zeker eens doen als ik een leuk project heb ;-)
Zeker een geslaagd project! Zet er nog een servomotor op en maak eer stuursysteem, sluit het aan op een RC ontvanger ;-)
Thanks! Ik vind hem ook best wel cool. In eerste instantie was het ook mijn idee om hem RC te maken. Maar ik wilde hem eerst testen en het concept verifiëren.. en kijken of hij wel een beetje hard zou gaan.
er zijn te veel gezichten! >:(
Cool project. *thumbs up*
Waw ! Neem er snel een pattent op ! Je hebt misschien wel het gat in de markt gevonden... ;-)
Er zijn er al velen ;) check maar eens op 'Solenoid RC car' bijvoorbeeld via Goegel
@@PeterLunk Dat klopt... in mijn verbeelding zag ik Emiel dit al in massa te produceren en binnenkort... was hij binnen ! Bulken van het geld om vervolgens 100% zich uit te leven in zijn workshop.
haha, geen patent dan helaas
Well done bro
Lucky it's got the spoiler on the back, with that kind of performance if you've not got the down-force it'll take off... !! Awesome project though, I need to get back into playing with Arduino again!
It's weight added more down force than the actual aerodynamics of it 😂
Also, you would have to use a sensored controller and hook up a hall effect sensor to the output shaft with magnets to get a proper readout since the resistance of the solenoid wires is likely a lot higher than BLDC motors.
Your work is good. Double the voltage to make it go fast and everything will go fine
Dit vind ik nou knap hè! Al dat gepiel met die printplaten inregelen, laat staan zelf samenstellen 😳
Dat vind ik ook nog altijd lastig 😮
Het duurde mij 41 seconden voor ik door had dat het Nederlands was!
Ik zou je stem door een gate en compressor halen, dit om het achergrond geluid weg te filteren en je stem volume gelijk te trekken. Dit kun je dan weer door RNNoise halen om al het achtergrond geluid weg te moffelen!
Ik zou een crank sensor gebruiken, magneetje met een Hall sensor zou voldoende moeten zijn om de hoek te meten!
Oh wacht, ik had de video verder uit moeten kijken :p
Bedankt voor de feedback! ik doe wel een compressor over het stemgeluid maar nog niet genoeg blijkbaar.. Heb je tips waar ik hier meer over kan vinden om het goed te doen?
Een compressor is vaak niet voldoende, soms zul je een gain moeten toepassen.
Ook kun je twee kanalen gebuiken om het achtergrond geluid laag te houden als er stem is (sidechain compression).
Well Done. Solenoids are reluctance devices. You can eliminate the crank shaft and reciprocating motion -- and therefore reduce drag and wear -- by using a Switched Reluctance Motor (SRM). It uses the same magnetic principle but is all rotary. You obviously have the equipment and expertise to construct an SRM and expertise to perfect the power electronics and motor controls. What is more, what you learn can be scaled from a toy car to a full size car.
Cool project! It seems to me that the firing order of the pistons is causing some stability issues. I don't know anything about solenoids, but a firing order is when the piston is pushed back down to its maximum performance. Usually piston geometry plays a huge role in engine performance!
Also I have a strange question... can you hook up a generator to the flywheel? It would actually recharge the battery, but then again you would have to compensate the power output hmm.
For fun, you could add a bluetooth interface to the ecu/motherboard, so you could add a remote controller support in code. It's quite simple!
als je de lichtsensors via een vario koppelt aan de as kun je ook nog een mechanisch tweaken met de timing. en wellicht kun je de as opdelen in 4 delen om 4 verschillende timings te krijgen, hierdoor zal het systeem wat soepeler lopen..
Thanks, Bedoel je met de as opdelen hem in hoeken van 90 graden maken ipv 180?
@@Thepracticalengineer precies!, al is natuurlijk wel de vraag of dit kan aangezien je solenoids dan in een soort halve positie komen te staan
Waarom kies je voor een "solenoide-motor". Hij lijkt me nogal "suboptimaal".
Gewoon "omdat het kan" 😂
exact, gewoon omdat het kan en voor het experiment. Het is inderdaad een van de meest inefficiënte manieren om een motortje te maken.
Interesting video 👍
Thanks!
very cool! thank you
Glad you liked it
I’ve been seeing how dodge is about to hop on the EV train, I figured they’d go this route but only one person seems to have actually put their solenoid motor in a car like 10 years ago and there’s no test drive. We all know this was possible, why hasn’t anyone gone this route? It’s literally everything we love about combustion engines but in electric format.
Here's an idea. Take the design of a DC motor with inner rotor with brushes and outer stator. Now turn the design inside out. The stator has six coils on one side and six on the other. The coils are connected in series around the edge. 12 lead outs are taken to a fixed commutator. The rotor would be 14 bar magnets. Power is fed to two brushes via a slip ring shaft driven by a small motor. Allows for powerful DC motor controlled by low power DC motor and no expensive electronics for speed control. Remember this is an unproven idea. I have concerns about current control but maybe resistive blocks could replace gear boxes. This motor design is named the IO motor. It works by dragging the rotor. You heard it here first.
Super leuke en interessante video! Ik wist helemaal niet dat er een goed Nederlands engineering kanaal op youtube was tot nu. Meteen geabonneerd!
Voor de vertanding van de wagen zou ik deze gewoon 1 op 1 maken met nog een spanner zodat je hier een beetje mee kunt spelen en ook denk ik dat de gegoten banden te zwaar zijn. De banden van alleen PLA zouden grip genoeg hebben voor de snelheid wat hij nu bereikt.
Het lijkt me wel interessant om te zien dat je hem RC maakt. Het sturen van de voorwielen is niet lastig om te 3D printen.
Als je wilt sturen zul je wel grip nodig hebben op de voorbanden indien je geen differentieel hebt. Hiervoor kun je ook experimenteren met de plek van de motor zodat je meer gewicht op de voorbanden krijgt.
Awesome. Definitely a success. I would love to know the power consumption/efficiency of this.
Heel leuke video weer man ! en een erg leuk project. topperrrr !
Zou je eens willen overwegen om bij zulke projectjes ook een schema van de electronica te maken en misschien een code voorbeeld ?
Groet,
Peter Lunk
Dankjewel! Meestal ben ik vrij beknopt over de electronica simpelweg omdat ik er zelf niet heel veel vanaf weet (en een hoop fout doe) maar ik zal er eens naar kijken
Could you try a similar design with opposing pistons and take advantage of those opposite poles for less power consumption, then can we kick each row of pistons on/off ndividually in sequence rather than continous power for increased effeciency?
Amazing awesome 👌
Perpetual motion key is in the lag time of of and on ,and let's face it selinoid engines are a perfect fit for other planets electric fuel reliability simplicity 👌!!🎯
Ah! Du ist gut! Danka!
It worked, you cannot expect more than that for an experiment
Sounds like it needs some lubricant. And regarding aerodynamics, it could probably use some ground effect or something.
I wonder if a solenoid-assisted combustion engine would be viable for a full-sized vehicle, and/or how solenoids would actually assist. Perhaps they could aid in providing extreme compression by pulling the piston shut?
Has a nice Chitty Chitty Bang Bang sound to it.
I would love to know how did you made the crankshaft. Can you show it on video or just drawings ? whatever just please teach me :D
Very nice ,
Awesome
Come on! That's wholesome!
Cool 😎
What if you feed each solenoid a sine wave (AC voltage) each out of phase from each other 90*, respectively? If you can make a 3 cylinder design, you could run it with a brushless speed controller if they are each 120* out of phase, and you wire the solenoid wires in a wye or delta configuration. Wye would give you √3 times more torque.
Is there any advantage to this? I only see more friction than a normal electric motor would have.
More Improvement please , this type of Innovation should go and. Better. 👍🏻🙏🏻
Ja erg cool, kan je misschien als uitbreiding een versnellingsbak toevoegen waarmee je sneller zou kunnen rijden?
If your pins were transposed/inversed couldn't you solder the arduino in from the other side of the board to fix that?
I hoped so but I only inverted one of the rows
Je kan ook voor het volgende PCB prototype een USB aansluiting er op doen, dan hoef je niet de heletijd de arduino er uit te halen.
If the internal "pistons" were made from a magnetic material, you would be able to use both push and pull effect by reversing the polarity at the top and bottom points. (I believe...)
It would also require more complex electronics and programming.
But that could make the magnets degrade faster
Ik zou zeggen dat met een goed vliegwiel en een koppeling je een stuk verder komt
The cylinders only have to function as 2 stroke. But you can get power strokes by teversing polarity. So youre going to have constant power from all 4 cylinders. Its just a matter of timing each one. Thats why you need a commutator (distributor) To adjust equal power applied to each cylinder on both directions (attract and repelle). The polarity must change precisely at the bottom and top ends of the stroke. At any given moment in the cycle, there will be 2 pistons attracted and 2 repelling.
That would definitely improve it. It would need a magnet in the core though.
@@Thepracticalengineer
Yes. If you want dual action out of it. But totally worth it. Its twice the power.
And because current does take time to travel, timing would have to advance ar higher rpms. Just like an internal combuster.
Mantap.
Mesin selonoid nya. Guys
Nice experiment, sound like muscle car great for 1 run
It sounds good indeed!
@@Thepracticalengineer
May its need some coil stepp up some like motorcycles to step up 12v into hundred volts or big capacitor until spark like plasma. And the sharing with circle platina like old car. Sorry for my bad English
how many volts of battery you used?
He needs a mechanical distributor or at the very least a crankshaft position sensor circuit. Hard coding the cylinder timing means the engine can't adapt to changes in the load.
How bout some kind of sensors to tell the program where the pistons are so that it can correctly control the solenoids.
I'd say hall sensors
What's the difference bw copper wire and insulated copper wire ????
And also what kind wire is used in motor coils ????
Is it insulated copper wire or just copper wire
I see this is an urgent question…
It is insulated copper wire you need
@@Thepracticalengineer but what's the difference 😫😫😫 it's just copper right !!!!
Wat is het asvermogen t.o.v. het elektrisch vermogen? Ziet er netjes uit en leuk proof of concept.
Geen idee maar ik denk dat we toch zeker zo'n 5 tot 10 procent efficiëntie behalen
@@Thepracticalengineer ik ben student mechatronics engineer, ik kan een poging doen om dit te berekenen als voltage, stroom bij een bepaalt rpm en kracht van de solenoid bekend zijn, laat het maar weten 😁
I just thinking about something like ecu connected with electric motor.. that can use for start engine and it run at 1k ~ 3k rpm with out paddle
What’s the efficiency of a solenoid driven car vs motor?
I think its very low.
For driving the wheels you need rotational force, something an electric motor can deliver straight away with very low friction.
With solonoid you have an up and down movement that needs to be converted to rotations with the crankshaft.
This created a lot of extra friction aka energy loss.
The up and down movement of the solonoids is also less efficient, every stroke it has to slowdown, stop and accelerate in the opposite direction. another huge waste of energy.
@@erics320 thanks. Put in to words my suspicion!
what happened with your hovercraft?
Not a whole lot. It is sort of finished but i am to heavy together with the hovercraft. Lighter people can use it. There will be a video on my second channel "Emiel Noorlander" Soon about it
Geweldig dit wilde ik al jaren proberen maar kwam er niet van .
Wat een ontzettend gaaf ding zeg! Hoe eenvoudig is het om dit eventueel aan te sturen met een ESC of (lekker ouderwets) een schuifweerstand met servo om gas te geven? En dan natuurlijk nog een stuurmechanisme verzinnen.. Ik denk wel dat het 'beter' is om hem met de arduino aan te sturen omdat je dan veel meer controle hebt over wanneer de solenoids hun arbeidsslag uitvoeren maar dat is een hoop gedoe natuurlijk. en misschien een hoger voltage voor de power als ze het aankunnen. En blijf zo eerlijk als je bent in de video's, mensen mogen best eens zien dat projecten niet allemaal rozegeur en maneschijn zijn
Ja die eerlijkheid vind ik zelf ook erg belangrijk. Het kan best wel ontmoedigend zijn als projecten bij anderen altijd lijken te lukken.
What if you made a cam shaft that that acted on switches?
😎👍
You dont really need an Arduino though. Just a distributor like an intrrnal cumbust up.
Arduino for a brushless speed control, brushed for a commutator distributor. I dont know if brushless motors work on attract and repel. I think they only attract.
Frikken great idea though. 👍
Thanks!
@@Thepracticalengineer
Seriously. That concept has alot of potential.
The pistons, are they steel or neodimum? Because in an electomagnetic coil field, you could only attract steal. But if they were magnets, you could reverse polarity and have them repel too.
zet er sterkere solenoïdes op dan gaat hij ook harder en heeft hij meer koppel.
en bouw hem in een radiografisch bestuurbare auto
Good for bicycle and car
I love Dutch, wow it reminds me of, German, Norwegian, Danish, and English together.
I think it would have been cool if the engine was used on a model train
The issue with timing can be solved by using micro switches instead of time delay
At the end of the video I added a ir sensor instead of the arduino
Program it to for 2 solenoids at time in sequence against the other 2 like left and right and it should give way more torque and be easier to set up your firing delay
I think you should use high volts like 20k plus and wire it for ac if its not already that way you will have better power you could put some a bifilar coils on top of your solenoids if your using ac and add a huge load of parasitic induction
Oh, that might work indeed. It's now 12v dc but you can probably load them way higher because its only short bursts
Well what ever you decide to do im excited too see so keep up the good work and most of all stay creative
Ik had helemaal geen nederlandse video verwacht! Wtf
Een klein AI moduletje erbij dat timings regelt met rpm en rotor positie als feedback.
Loved the concept , but i feel it is better to use a motor to save from frictional losses
That would definitely be more efficient. This was more about the experiment.
02:01 😱 Wat hebben die lagertjes jou misdaan ?
Je moest eens weten.
Maar ik vond ook dat het niet langer zo kon dus inmiddels heb ik een kleine pers staan
porque não existem estes motores solonoides em aviões ?
why don't you try it with a propeller?? i want so much to build a solenoid rc airplane
great job yo
Hey i liked that video it's possible to try to get the car fast with some gear try to change the ratio to make it go faster .It could be fun to make a toy car with it but a completly working
Give it a BIG flywheel, fat connecting rods get a remote control and add steering and then give it some power!!
Newtons law of thermodynamics!
If im not mistaken, solenoid engines are incredibly inefficient. Peter sripol just made a video on it
That is true, but they are nice to make
@@Thepracticalengineer very satisfying to see as well!
zouden de tekeningen ergens beschikbaar zijn?
Op het moment niet maar ik kan hem wel op patreon zetten
I think, this engine is like disel engine. It is slowly but it has more power than engine with rotor.
Is Blue your favourite colour?
Make a wireless hand crank controller. That would be cool
What language do you speak in this video? it's sounds like Dutch. But I'm not sure.
It is Dutch indeed
Needs a supercharger! 😯😁👍😎
Ik zou heel graag jouw winkel willen hebben!
Je had je mal in 2 delen kunnen makken.. dus je contour frezen, en dan t hele gavaarte opde bandzaag.
als t ware zachte bekken voot je machine klem :)
Dat zou zeker werken inderdaad. Sindsdien ben ik daar wat vaker mee aan het proberen. Leuk leerproces!
@@Thepracticalengineer 5/5 goed bezig chef! :)
👏👏👏…👍