Losing repeatedly, especially starting out is brutal. So when I introduce people to fighting games I will throw out a lot of the same moves and give them pointers on how to prevent them. Then when they start picking up on them and winning, I start adding more moves to not only give them to win but let them learn move by move :)
Same here, I've thrown so many games for my family and friends cause I'm scared of scaring them away from fighting games. Even when I run into someone in very low rank in casual matches, I'll throw a round or ease up on strategies that may seem too opressive. I think this is the mindset of people who have fun just playing the game and improving and not just winning.
I wish I had someone like you when I started Smash4 back then. It was my first contact with a competitive scene ever. We had an event that regularly got like 30-40 people of east Germany into one place for a full weekend. With no exaggeration, I was a training dummy for them. In result most players played like a bo5 max before they decided to leave and find a different opponent to train with or spectate some of the better players. Nobody cared to be a teacher for the new kid. The only advice I got was to buy a GC-Controller. Mostly, so I wont disrupt the saturday tournament because I forgot to desync my Controller from the setup. Someone here wrote a comment like"a fight is a conversation". In that case, all I was hearing that day was "you're not worth my time". It definetly defined my view on stuff like the meta etc. and how I expect eveyone who plays a top tier to be a narcissistic elitist, who would drop the character the second its no longer a top 5 pick. I know, my view is just as dumb as the view I complain about, but the first impression is the most important and like I said, 40 people over an entire weekend (actually 5 WE, because I still liked the game and wanted to be part of it) but nobody prooved me wrong.
The person's mindset also is very important. I've tried this approach with many people and they can get upset about me holding back. Then when I try they feel overwhelmed. I've also never had a proper coach since my friends who do play fighting games would try their hardest on you and go silent when you ask questions. Meanwhile I will with no hesitation tell them how to counter my moves. I only got 1 friend who bothered teaching me but he still tries which makes learning difficult.
A good quote I heard in the splatoon community: "Your contribution to a Community can be measured by the number of people you bring into it, minus the number you drive away"
@@crisalcantara7671 nice to hear that people can relate. Splatoon is a team shooter from Nintendo and the quote was from a yt channel about the competitive scene and all sorts of educational topics adjacent to it. But 80% of the advices can be applied to any competitive game, not just Team based or shooter. Heck, there is even a running gag in the comments that the channel is secretly about dating advice. The topic of being a welcoming community especially for children is very important there. As a Nintendo IP, we just have a very high number of children and teens around and many take that seriously.
@@Miracle7Seven I can understand your struggle. I also like to be a completionist in games and after how much I loved Splatoon 2, I was all in. But then I saw how most badges are insanely grindy or just humanly impossible to obtain. So my interest in 100% was shattered pretty quickly. Also note that Items from the cataloge are not gone. They end in the Shell Machine and half of the cataloge of year 2 is the same as last year. I hope it helps.
@@MrNovascar honestly. My interest is just lost after hearing that xd ain’t no way ima get those past rewards :P I can’t commit myself to games like that often enough. But rn I’m playing Link’s Awakening and it’s fun
This is so true lmao. I have block strings and set ups I almost always do first so that I can mix them with the alternate ones later. I love doing that
As a person who is the "can beat all my friends" to the point my friends rather play whatever over fighting games with me, and, also helping new players on a weekly basis, I sandbag sooooo much (never in tournament). Some older players think I'm crazy, saying I'm disrespect my opponent; but my answer is always the same: No need to make a big effort, they start the game just 5 min ago, I don't win anything if I beat them.
I have turned people off to fighting games completely just cause I couldn't recognize the none stop struggling I was putting them through. I grew up getting stomped on without remorse in every game so I figured it was normal. I have learned to take my opponents skills and tools into consideration which has made things a lot better but I admit I get a gross feeling in my stomach after. All I can think about is the Herm Edwards quote, which was a favorite around my house. "You play to win the game!" Great video bro. Love to see more of this style.
I like the method of trying, but adding restrictions. Like if it's a newb in a fighter, maybe play someone you aren't used to and stick to basic 1-2 chips while explaining how to counter it.
My girlfriend used to think I was terrible at games because I always let her win or tie. After remarking on the crazy coincidence of always having tied score in Mario Kart, she straight up asked me if I was letting her win. She thinks it's kind of sweet but she's also a bit bothered by it.
I love playing against friends and slowly ramping up the difficulty each match as they learn new things, once they figure something out, I throw new things into the mix and make it slightly harder each time
the secret as "the better player" in these situations is to just experiment and mess around with your options, or even characters that you normally don't play as. relaxing your desire to win against your friends and just doing things for fun, not really caring about the results is how i keep playing with all of my friends even if im better than almost all of them. it makes them feel inclined to not care and just have fun too, which aspires their desire to improve when they play on their own -- so when they suddenly do get that surprise win or do something cool it makes them feel really good and helps them in seeing the fun of fighting games. also, don't forget to be positive and compliment attempts at good plays to your friends! explaining why something works and why something doesn't work can really help their growth. ive been surprised by sudden genius moments where a beginner friend puts everything together and actually does some intermediate or even high-level shit which makes both of us feel really good (and hype lol)
Don't let others win. But you should sandbag, and by that I mean don't go optimal. Throw out some basic moves into small combos so they can learn to play against it. Basically if you're playing against a new player then play like you're a trainer. As they start to learn to Counter what you're using then start throwing out new moves for them to learn. Just don't go optimal until they start to
When introducing people to fighting games, I never curbstomp. Not only would that be massively unpleasant for most people on the recieving end, it is not the type of play that I find super entertaining. Might as well go into training mode and just do combos against a bot at that point. My goal is to get _them_ to become as strong as possible as quickly as possible, and throwing someone into the deep end is not the best method for everyone.
I had a game of GGST where I went 2/0 playing a potemkin mirror, and the opp wad kind of talking down about themselves and stuff. I kept hyping them up and tried to make their morale go up in between the sets, and they eventually win. I dont think I threw the game or anything, but I was genuinely trying to play the match to where they were able to learn how to play against me, and encouraged them throughout the set. To me, going to locals is just about enjoying myself and that person REALLY looked happy going through the match and finally winning at the last moment. I only hope they got the same level of satisfaction from it that I did, cuz it felt great to see them overcome and learn from the mirror against me.
I think in the context of playing a competitive game against friends, it depends on the goal your friend has. If they're trying to improve, then handicapping yourself is ultimately handicapping them. If they're playing with you just because they want to play a game with their friend, then I think it's fine to handicap yourself somehow in favor of just messing around and having a fun time.
Depends. An absolute beginner, if you go all out might literally not be able to perceive how they lost. And enough of that will drive anyone to stop playing.
@@Pandaman64 Certainly. But if they're an absolute beginner trying to improve at the game, I still don't think holding back would help them. I think you can play normally and then go over a vod with them and talk about their options and such. Or have them play against worse players.
@@B3stpwnage Words can only go so far. It's way better to have them experience the events as they happen organically rather than make them watch a PowerPoint presentation. Perfectly stomping them super hard consecutively will probably fail to get across messages as the experience will just be "something I don't understand went wrong".
@@goncalocarneiro3043 There's certainly moment for teaching during gameplay. Of course you could always go into some kind of training mode where you become a teacher/coach. But playing for the express purpose of teaching is not the same to me as playing the game with them. I consider that being more of an interactive video. Not everybody learns neat that way though, some people prefer videos, solo practice modes, or reading guides.
Much like with getting new people into martial arts, whenever I introduce new people to fighting games, they enter knowing that I'm going to be drilling them to pick up fundamentals one brick at a time. They get their win if they can learn the lesson, they have a great time, and they understand what's going on from the get-go. If they up the ante, I will scale up with them. If I notice them figuring out mechanics sooner than expected, I will immediately pick up the pace, but scale it back if they're struggling. If they ask me to go as hard as possible so they can get an idea of what's even possible, I'll do it, and there's no hard feelings. Fighting games share a level sincerity and honesty with actual fighting in that you can't depend on outside influence; it's just you and your opponent in there, and the mirror that is your own ability. When you check the ego at the door, you get the most wonderful community there is.
When you bringed Smash to the table I was hoping you talked about the last evo of smash 4, where at grand finals both players stalled the match, homie stocked and started talking until the staff called them out, it was definitely a bad look and probably the last nail on sm4sh's coffin, which was already in a very bad place.
I recently saw that towards the end of finishing this video and was thinking of adding it in, but decided not to. Though I do think that is one of the bigger sandbag incidents that have happened in esports. It's crazy how that's how Smash 4 ended, though I never was a big fan of that game to begin with
i've always thought it was weird that people in the fgc don't put on the training brakes when they're playing people they know are weaker. like if you're not in bracket, it's directly analogous to sparring with a less skilled opponent in real martial arts. the important part is both people agreeing to it, which requires not caring so much about results and caring more about practice, which is ultimately way better for growth in the long run in all disciplines
Somehow i can never really play competitively, i will *always* sandbag if i see my opponent has a big disadvantage against me and i feel bad if don't do so, no matter if it's a casual game with my friends or a ranked match with a complete stranger.
Why not be the skillful guy that's also a superrr chill dude that has respect for people of all skill level? Why min/max on a noob? It gives back nothing. Grow the playerbase.... everyone wins. If everyone leaves who is there to get spicy with? "Minion I'm a VILLAIN with No HERO. A Yin With No Yang. A Bull Fighter with NO BULL to FIGHT.. In other words:.....*I HAVE NO PURPOSE!*" - MegaMind.
I have done this with them. I do make them work a few times to get it though; to instill that value of learning how to control your character, and that rush of victory that comes from the self-improvement; to get them to love the experience of the game itself. DnF Duel and Footsies are great for teaching fundamentals to newcomers. But yeah, you don't fuck with brackets. Fully agreed there.
I love games like marvel vs capcom 2 that have that handycap thing. I can play with my girlfriend and she dont know that is it and i put it full for her and empty for me, so i can play normaly and she can win anyways and she feel the victory de real.
I let friends win pretty often tbh, and I go easy on weaker players. When the result of a specific match doesn't matter to me, I experiment with stuff I would never try out if I were playing competitively. I try to learn new unorthodox stuff when I feel comfortable that I could definitely win if I really wanted to. Sometimes I will sandbag until low hp just to get more practice clutching comebacks.
I can add that lately I've played a bit of cardgames with someone I really care about and they're not as good as me. I do play to win but I really try to have their fun in mind as well. Then again, if I play too poorly they will notice, I also want to show them how you could play to position yourself better for the next turn. Or frankly the rest of the game. So its a fine balance, and sometimes you just draw really poorly and don't perform as well as you'd hope. Perhaps they're too passive and doesn't take the shots they should or can, being too passive holding back creatures that can't even block mine, I can't even block and trade favourably yet they let me keep gaining bit by bit. So I guess I play to win but I also wanna help the other person getting better, I don't want them to notice that if I am playing really poorly, that I am sandbagging and letting them win. That is not fun either. I want to help them see the correct plays and capitalize when they can. But this will come with practice and everyone doesn't have as much time or the drive to practice for this. I wrote this about 1min 40 sec into the vid a bit hastely, hopefully its understandable lol.
People just expect a black belt to beat the crap out of a white belt on his first day lol.... this is an issue I always had with people who played smash they don't know how to ease somebody in or don't care about anyone but themselves
Whenever I play video games against a new player I don't use everything I have at my disposal. I treat it as if I'm the end-of-tutorial skill test and I'm the one to teach the player how to respond to certain things. I'll make my actions reactable, I'll repeat something a few times to reinforce a response, but I won't go fucking ham. I'm polite like that.
I win initially and as time goes on I play marginally worse but keep victory just out of reach so when they do beat me it feels real and theres zero suspiscion of letting them win. It's fun and I encourage them to get creative so when I lose it's more genuine because they pull out something I wasnt expecting.
You sound like Goku. Great voice dude. (Lovely video : I tried teaching my buddy Blazblue a while back. He told me he learned best by getting his ass beat and will pick up from there. I proceeded to 3-0 and he uninstalled. Similarly, I chose to not win in our League of Legends 1v1's, simply because the idea of him losing made him angry and removed a certain portion of the fun that was the sportsmanship that losing was ok. So I subconsciously never really went to win but opted for fun. Years down the line has lead me to lose competitive edge because seeing people lose makes me feel bad😂).
Yeah, I made this video because my friend group got in a big discussion about it. It really is understanding who you are playing against, but I think it's sometimes hard to judge if you don't know the other person well. But I guess that's what makes this topic interesting, at least to me
A fight is a conversation to get to know your opponent, and yourself. Some people don't find each other interesting. Thus they seek ways to keep it interesting. Sandbagging is often handicapping yourself to explore your ability to use just a limited toolset, or to check your opponent's ability to learn that particular mechanic. Top finishers mutually agreeing to an odd ruleset in a championship, while disrespectful to players not as good, is nonetheless a celebration of the skills they've built, and knowing that few others can "converse" on a level that they can. particularly understandable when you're a kid and that only other opponent is your literal brother--they're free at that point to play the game as THEY love it, and if you don't like it, beat them. Hayao's antics embody that same love of the game and a good fight. Are they obligated to play for the audience's delight, or for their own? I say their own, therefore the resolution is to choose tournament mechanics that reduce the chance of it, not to fault the players.
If I'm playing a fighting game with my buddies and they are rusty or not on my level I use less of my arsenal generally because I don't like subjecting them to everything I can throw at them if they are severely out of practice. I just try to play on a level field with anyone who's new to a game partially because I know what it's like to get rawdogged for hours at a time and I hate it cause it gets stale. I make sure I give my friend the run down on what I can do at the very least
I think the most infamous sandbag incident was the SC2 grand finals situation. I barely recall what I had read about it, but basically- It was the first year that fighting game tournaments were really being covered in the media, so the top 2 people left agreed to split the pot and play explosively instead of their normal gameplay. (They thought SC2 was boring from a spectator pov) and once it came out, people assumed it was for more nefarious reasons than wanting to put on a good show while also guaranteeing a bit of cash afterwards.
My thoughts as a sandbagger: When I'm picking up a new fighting game, I will absolutely try my hardest to improve to the level that I would love to play. I don't mind if people are sandbagging me cause I'm enjoying a game too much to care about it and I'm having fun with something I'm spending most of my time with that day. The sandbagging starts once I reach that level I'm satisfied with and I end up hiding my potential because now I'm prioritizing my fun over others improvements. It's not fun being a tryhard 24/7 as someone who used to participate in every tournament I could attend. It's not great for the mental at all and I hate the feeling of self disappointment. If others are being vocal about wanting to improve, I will absolutely try for them because that's what they want to do with their time and I respect that 1000%. Sandbagging has it's positives and negatives. A positive would be someone that wants to get into fighting games for the first time and you have to level down for them so their improvement path can be as smooth as possible and they can continue to enjoy their experience with a fighting games but the drawback of that is when others catch on to what I'm doing and I answer with: "No comments." They know that I'm not putting in my 100% and it's discouraging for them and then I start to feel guilty for them as well cause I knew what it felt like trying my hardest to play at that level and I'm just kicking dirt all over them and a part of myself for doing that. To this day, I'm still a premium sandbagger. I even do it in tournaments, friends, and randoms I meet in lobbies or in person. It's the only way now that I can enjoy fighting games and I know that I'm completely alone in this thought but without it, My last fighting game would've been in 2019. I'm thankful to all the friends I made along the way and I'm sorry for not pushing myself for you.
Not many think about this as much, I was questioning myself one time hanging out with friends, a games night. we had a small fun tournament. the prize was a 3d print trophy that glows in the dark which was pretty cool. the competitive came back to me and easily won. although they weren't good and of course only having fun. I felt like I should've let one of them win a single round, but few wish to beat me one day and totally get that. Side track here but I can't seem to find the song in 0:58 in the google docs. if anyone knows that would be nice
Most times I feel like the only person in my friend circle that cares if EVERYONE is having fun when we play and not just me. Thats why I tend to play low tiers in PvP and support roles in PvE. Somepeople are just too obsessed with the imaginary scoreboard in their head...
Situationally for me it depends. In SF6 if I'm in ranked, its no holds barred. I'm gonna be trying stuff but I'm not gonna be pulling punches. In casuals or lobbies if I'm playing against someone, even if they are good enough to beat me, if I run into a situation they have trouble with or a button such the same, I will intentionally throw it out more often in similar situations to give them a chance to try to beat it. It helps them figure something out in a real setting and it even gives me information as to options against it. Even further, if I'm playing against someone who is obviously new, and they eventually pull a really solid setup, mix, or oki situation on me, I'll let it hit me sometimes. Give them the reward for the hard work they've put in and encourage further delving into these things to strengthen them later down the road.
I use it as a chance to learn something new. I would actively avoid using parts of my movelist (roman cancels on Milia in Strive or Azucena's high/low parries) just because it wasn't necessary to win, but trying them out greatly improved my gameplay. Yeah, I'd lose to someone who I had no business to, but I won matches I wouldn't have later.
I always try to match the skill of the person I'm fighting. If my opponent is a noob, I won't go full UI, concentration mode, instead, I'll try really hard to win while using only 50% of my focus. If my opponent is way more skilled, I'ma give it 110% focus.
Is definitely important to find someone who can serve as a middle ground for you to practice. Is rough playing a new fighting game, especially one that has a small community were a lot of the veterans know the game from top to bottom. Its pretty much the equivalent of trying to keep up with a rocket scientist in terms of work efficiency when you're just fresh off college for engineering. You gonna have to study and get your ass beat a lot at the game just to stand a hint of a chance, before being able to stand toe to toe with the rest of the players.
I think in casual contexts, it does better to play games where you can give yourself handicaps. Like they win if they manage to hit you once or some such.
1:37 No. Never. If someone ever let me win I would feel humillated, burned, and basically it would be a huge insult. Things change if you give a heads up and we are like training or practicing, that’s fine. It’s when you do it without telling the other person that it becomes a big insult IMO.
For me, in guilty gear, I will intentionally place myself into a tier that I won’t have the highest chance to win at. Close to a snowballs chance in hell kinda of tier lol For me, my area seems to be floor 7 through 9. I often start off my day with at least 6 full sets with players at floor 10. I know full and well that those celestial players that have more hours in their off characters than I have in my one main will likely wipe the floor with me. And they do lol So I made it a mission of mine to do the following. Try my hardest for the first two rounds, then, if I am just getting demolished and obliterated, I give the respectful taunt in the final round. I make it a mission of mine to deliver them that respect taunt. Often I get 3x responses back for my efforts. A. They respect back and we initiate a funny rounds of nonsense. Queue Potemkin mirror match shenanigans (butt bomb jumps, slide head exchanges, infinity “dab-me-ups”) B. They respect back but then start up the round again. To which I attempt to fight back (only after they initiate it again) C. They simply go in for the kill. Usually for this one I will fight back but know that I’m going to die, so I try and make my final HP amount be used for the final respect taunt. I never give a win away to someone unless I know them or can see that they’re new to their character. Under such circumstances I sandbag BUT with the intention of having them learn the counter play to a move. Like, I’ll see that they can’t stop my potemkins hammer fall. So I will start using it as my sole move but not in a hyper spam way. Just enough to have it hit and see them try options out. If they learn their characters multi hit move or to grab it, then I will move to the next move that seems to give them struggles. Repeat till round / set ends. I also tell them that they did good post round and what to do against those moves in the future. Offering them a rematch to test out the moves or to go at it fresh again ^w^
When a bigger and smaller rat playfight, the bigger rat has to let the smaller one win 30% of the time or else the smaller one will stop playing with the bigger one Make of that what you will
Sometimes I also think that it’s hard fight a new player because they would play off of randomness rather than what you would think they should do. Reminds me of the drunken fist 😂
If im playing against someone i know is new to a game or not at my skill level i just don't use my main but still try to win. It's a good time to learn another character.
This is what I do as well sometimes. Though if I'm at a tournament and still need to play my matches, I unfortunately need to play my main to stay warmed up. I do feel bad if I know the other player is frustrated and I don't like giving unsolicited advice because then it can come off condescending. So I just hope they say something
I'd argue no, but I also have a lot of weirdness when it comes to this. I have nieces and nephews, along with an older sister. If I sandbagged to the young ones it was "damn, you suck at this game", and if I won it was "wow you're bullying people, you suck". There's really no winning when it comes to playing with people beneath your level.
Every time I here low tier I remember that time Soraka mid was completely busted due to blatant balancing mistake in the supporter rework. She basically played like a strictly stronger version of Mordekaiser with more range and explicitly countering mid lane champions. So needless to say My winrate rose to 80% for that patch. Because I steamrolled mid hard almost every match I got the position. And then started going for the reast and saving other lanes randomly with my ult. Precisely because I am not that good. So in my elo most people just blindly follow guides without understanding the mechanics. Well, I read patch notes. And one patch later Soraka was nerfed into the ground because other people noticed the exact thing I noticed. But it was fun while it lasted. Which was not very long, they address problems that severe rather fast
Relationships are important in all facets. And relationships also exist in games, and the way you interact with someone depends on the relationship you have with them. Someone at your level can be a "Rival", and you both can easily improve one another by tackling the challenge of an equal with full force. But what is someone who's way weaker? A rival they are not, since you know how to deal with them perfectly, they are therefore "nothing", why play with them? The answer is, they could be a "pupil". Same the other way around. Someone infinitely stronger than you isn't a "fair challenge", you can't even remotely do anything against it that works, an untouchable wall, they're nothing. But they could be a "mentor". Why not just accept pupil/mentor as the default for overwhelming differences in skill level? It feels like everyone treats everyone as a rival and then they're surprised when the others don't bite.
My cousin Never let me win, he had fun being the better player until I started beating him. I'll always remember him putting the controller on the table "I'm done, if you're just gonna throw 20 hadoukens in the corner I'm not player anymore". Oh year he didn't like Corners we had a rule of No Corners.
Of course my opinion is shaped by my experience and in my experience what inspired me the most to get better at fighting games was getting double perfected by the character I use now. So I believe you should not let others win, but the opposite, become the mountain they have to climb. Of course this comes from a super competitive mindset but tbf fighting games are competitive and if your idea is to get them into the game and not just play for fun once every weekend, they are going to get destroyed as soon as they enter the online mode, so it’s better if you destroy them first in your own terms or at least in a way that shows them how cool the game can become once you master it. Basically I think that if they can’t stand losing a bunch against you they are not going to stick to the game anyways, so in my opinion go all out.
Just as a fun story, I remember I played Smash against a kid in a fighting game convention and I had to show him how it was done, the kid was actually pretty cool after losing, the only time I lost in purpose was when another kid came but this one was with his mother so I couldn’t do it.
I think the question is yes sometimes. I should have learned to let my brother win when playing smash bros, but I was full of myself and just needed to win. If I did that he would also feel better too.
Handicaps are fine. Not trying and letting people get false wins is ingenuine. I don't like people pitying me and letting me have games to placate my ego. I want them to try so I can overcome the challenge put before me. Coaching sessions are fine, where you teach specific answers and strategies, but in a real match, you should be trying. If you are tired of losing against a better opponent, add handicaps or find an opponent closer to your skill level.
Nah, I'm with Justin Wong. They gonna learn today. Realistically I think you should not pretend to be trying to win, but actually throw the match, even against a child or newcomer. Playing with a handicap that you disclose to try and make a closer match is a different thing though and I feel thats a better substitute.
It strongly depends. To me, someone letting me win would be even worse than losing, since it's not even a win, it's a pity hand out. If a player is at a skill level where they wouldn't even be able to tell that someone's not trying (like a little kid), then sure try to make it close for them. But most people who have any idea how to actually play can usually tell if someone that's significantly stronger than them just stops trying. Playing down to someone's level can also help them sharply see where their faults as players lie. Like if someone never baits DPs during blockstrings or on your wakeup, so you just DP every chance you get. But that's a somewhat different discussion. It's also a unique feeling to finally, genuinely beat someone at something they once completely outclassed you in. Or to have someone develop enough that they can start fighting you evenly on the other side of things. In tournament? Hell no. Easing up on someone there, unless it's an opponent where you absolutely know you can body them with one arm tied behind your back, accomplishes nothing. Part of entering a tournament at all is to see how far your skill can take you, and if the answer is "0-2" then that's that, no use to have a stronger competitor try to sugarcoat it.
HELL NO! Most people and most gamers are already terrified of fighting games…LETTING them win is a mistake,they’re either not gonna run it back or see how bad they are when you don’t go easy and never wanna play again.
I tend to try not to sandbag or let people win when i play them. if I am teaching them ill switch to character i dont know to make it better for them and start putting rules on myself to slow it down, but i do try to win or at least try to teach something directly (like jumping in alot to force them to AA)
Personnaly if I'm playing ranked (or similar) I won't play chill, I'll give my best. When playing w/ friends or in a non-ranked I'll just play for fun. And right-now I just bringed a friend in ggst and instead of going full try hard I just play pot chill or play characters I never played without looking at their specials.
I have a friend who i sandbagged for and let him win every once in a while. He then said he can take the beating so I stopped. I think im on a 50+ game winning streak across multiple fighting games.
To be honest I'm absolute shit at fighting games, like sure I've been on and off them over the past year and learned a good bit, but I'd still consider myself a noob. It's crazy how huge of a gap there is between when I first started out and where I am now, and I haven't even actually learned good fundamentals yet. I'm sure I would absolutely destroy my older self in any FG now. The least I can do when showing this genre to friends who aren't invested in it, is give them a bit of an easier time.
If I didn’t let my friends win. I’d have no one to play with 😭 ranked is coo, but I’m not really one for meeting random people online to play against/train. My friends enjoy fightings games but I happen to be the best out of that circle of friends. Once I get too good no one plays with me, so I’ll let them win sometimes. I try to teach them, but I’m far too advanced at this point for them to learn at the same rate
I do let others win a lot in SF6 ranked. Specially when opponent is clearly better than me, or when the opponent does some stupid disrespect, like T-bagging me when I'm stunned or something.
Are you in a tournament? is money on the line? If those two questions are yes, then you should go all out on them. Every other time, you should be playing to have fun. Yes, even during training and having long sets with your training partner. The FGC is too dang broke to meaningfully invest your time into. Unless you're a pro and it's all you know. Bur you're a special case, anyways. it's your job to win. Just don't expect that same expectation when it comes to normies you find online.
This is why you can't play fighting games for fun with friends. It's either "you're trying so hard to win" or "why are you letting me win", when In reality you're barely engaged as they hold upback desperately searching for a neutral skip. Complaints of bad matchups or unfair/dull system mechanics usually arn't far away either, as they run the same repetitive uninspired offense.
Played tekken with a friend recently. He is at red ranks and my highest is tekken king. So I picked a character I'm not that good at and gave him a game or two. I never told him but dude was motivated from our matches and managed to get to purple ranks haha I could go tryhard and not let him get a single round but then he might stop want to playing against me so hey why not give up a game or two? Once the opponent is good enough I'll go all out
Vs friends or newer players I just try to win in Specific ways. Like if smash I wanna get a ganoncide or a certain spike or I won’t try to win. Or if tekken since I play Steve I’ll try to get the back 3, 2 off (pretty difficult)
Even if you let them win, and they get into the game, they will run into someone who destroys them. getting destroyed in a fighting game means they don't get to play. After having this happen to them a few times they will feel like they're wasting their time and simply stop playing entirely. Fighting games need to figure out how to make losing less painful. perhaps have cosmetic rewards that you build towards whether you win or lose
@@therealperfectnamecan’t speak for everyone, but when I got started in Tekken years ago, getting my ass beat by my friends was inspiring in a sense. It fueled me to get in the lab and learn the counter-play. Doesn’t work for everyone but there’s no harm in getting clapped, it’s a right of passage in my eyes.
I don't let people win, but i will occasionally attempt extremely suboptimal playstyles if i see you struggling hard with a certain thing. Like, if I've shown you how to anti air in SF, and you still just can't deal with jump ins, I'll jump at you A LOT until you start countering it before dialing it back to the knowledge check im expecting you to have.
I give the win to clearly new people while just doing things to familiarize them with mechanics/gameplay. For anyone that's clearly competent, it's gloves off unless they say something.
Honestly I think what works best is setting expectations outright by asking before starting. "I am the world champion of this board game, would you like a relaxed game since you're starting or would you like to see me go all out and see high level play?" Which is half a joke half a conversation I've had plenty of times when playing Fatal KnockOut, one of my favourite board games. Then again, at other times I play more like a D&D DM: sure you can put an atropal against a level 8 party and wipe them out in a couple of turns but then nobody has fun and the game is ruined, I'd much rather act like a tour guide showing cool things that can be done in the game without annihilating the competition.
The problem with this is that it could come off as condescending or as a challenge. It's different if they are asking you to play with a handicap vs the better player boasting about their skill and saying they can dumb down their skill against the weaker player. Not saying this is a bad idea, but I would ask "what if someone said this to me and how would I feel?" Even if you say it as a joke the delivery could come off differently
@@therealperfectname That is a very good point I had not considered, thank you. I will definitely need to find a better delivery, even if what I wrote was for humour. I would personally appreciate the other person acknowledging their own skill/time investment to have an idea of how goo they can be at the game, especially if I am new; I remember this happening with a friend of mine when I tried Magic for the first time. I do wonder if adding "but I can always be surprised by new players: competing at a higher level makes it easy to fall in a comfortable meta" would be helpful.
I've definitely had a couple times where I was stomping just a little too hard, but instead of sandbagging I find it more fun to swap to characters or strategies I'm a bit more unfamiliar with. That way everyone wins :)
Me and my best friend have been playing tekken together since crossing paths on little big planet and bonding over Tekken and rap music hes always been better than me but guess what when i win i know its legit, all the rounds and rounds of Tekken we played over da years, all the ass whooping I done received fundamental taught me how to play better i almost barely ever lose in tekken against other ppl cause me and bro just spar.
Never let someone win, but let them play. Been teaching my gf dbfz. Instead of doing the most insane blockstrings I can, I just do basic strings to have her learn what to do. I 2H her super dashes so she learns to approach differently. But I don’t TOD her over and over off of the most insane mix I can do.
Losing repeatedly, especially starting out is brutal. So when I introduce people to fighting games I will throw out a lot of the same moves and give them pointers on how to prevent them. Then when they start picking up on them and winning, I start adding more moves to not only give them to win but let them learn move by move :)
Same here, I've thrown so many games for my family and friends cause I'm scared of scaring them away from fighting games. Even when I run into someone in very low rank in casual matches, I'll throw a round or ease up on strategies that may seem too opressive. I think this is the mindset of people who have fun just playing the game and improving and not just winning.
I wish I had someone like you when I started Smash4 back then. It was my first contact with a competitive scene ever. We had an event that regularly got like 30-40 people of east Germany into one place for a full weekend.
With no exaggeration, I was a training dummy for them. In result most players played like a bo5 max before they decided to leave and find a different opponent to train with or spectate some of the better players.
Nobody cared to be a teacher for the new kid. The only advice I got was to buy a GC-Controller. Mostly, so I wont disrupt the saturday tournament because I forgot to desync my Controller from the setup.
Someone here wrote a comment like"a fight is a conversation". In that case, all I was hearing that day was "you're not worth my time".
It definetly defined my view on stuff like the meta etc. and how I expect eveyone who plays a top tier to be a narcissistic elitist, who would drop the character the second its no longer a top 5 pick.
I know, my view is just as dumb as the view I complain about, but the first impression is the most important and like I said, 40 people over an entire weekend (actually 5 WE, because I still liked the game and wanted to be part of it) but nobody prooved me wrong.
Same
The person's mindset also is very important. I've tried this approach with many people and they can get upset about me holding back. Then when I try they feel overwhelmed.
I've also never had a proper coach since my friends who do play fighting games would try their hardest on you and go silent when you ask questions. Meanwhile I will with no hesitation tell them how to counter my moves.
I only got 1 friend who bothered teaching me but he still tries which makes learning difficult.
I do that but I also make their faults obvious and show them how others can capitalize. And show that losing isn’t always bad.
A good quote I heard in the splatoon community:
"Your contribution to a Community can be measured by the number of people you bring into it, minus the number you drive away"
i don't know what splatoon is but i can learn so much from this 😮😮, i see this in my kyokushin dojo but couldn't put ot in words ,😥.
@@crisalcantara7671 nice to hear that people can relate.
Splatoon is a team shooter from Nintendo and the quote was from a yt channel about the competitive scene and all sorts of educational topics adjacent to it. But 80% of the advices can be applied to any competitive game, not just Team based or shooter. Heck, there is even a running gag in the comments that the channel is secretly about dating advice.
The topic of being a welcoming community especially for children is very important there. As a Nintendo IP, we just have a very high number of children and teens around and many take that seriously.
Do you have any advice for not letting the fomo get to you in splatoon, do you play splatoon? I’ve tried but man it just gets to me
@@Miracle7Seven I can understand your struggle.
I also like to be a completionist in games and after how much I loved Splatoon 2, I was all in. But then I saw how most badges are insanely grindy or just humanly impossible to obtain.
So my interest in 100% was shattered pretty quickly.
Also note that Items from the cataloge are not gone. They end in the Shell Machine and half of the cataloge of year 2 is the same as last year. I hope it helps.
@@MrNovascar honestly. My interest is just lost after hearing that xd ain’t no way ima get those past rewards :P I can’t commit myself to games like that often enough. But rn I’m playing Link’s Awakening and it’s fun
You hold back to give your opponent a fair chance, I hold back to add mental stack, we are not the same
😂
Real
This is so true lmao. I have block strings and set ups I almost always do first so that I can mix them with the alternate ones later.
I love doing that
This is why I hold back art of war
As a person who is the "can beat all my friends" to the point my friends rather play whatever over fighting games with me, and, also helping new players on a weekly basis, I sandbag sooooo much (never in tournament). Some older players think I'm crazy, saying I'm disrespect my opponent; but my answer is always the same: No need to make a big effort, they start the game just 5 min ago, I don't win anything if I beat them.
exactly , what do you have to gane by beating someone brutally that is much weaker than you ?more people should think about this .
I have turned people off to fighting games completely just cause I couldn't recognize the none stop struggling I was putting them through. I grew up getting stomped on without remorse in every game so I figured it was normal. I have learned to take my opponents skills and tools into consideration which has made things a lot better but I admit I get a gross feeling in my stomach after. All I can think about is the Herm Edwards quote, which was a favorite around my house.
"You play to win the game!"
Great video bro. Love to see more of this style.
I like the method of trying, but adding restrictions.
Like if it's a newb in a fighter, maybe play someone you aren't used to and stick to basic 1-2 chips while explaining how to counter it.
My girlfriend used to think I was terrible at games because I always let her win or tie. After remarking on the crazy coincidence of always having tied score in Mario Kart, she straight up asked me if I was letting her win. She thinks it's kind of sweet but she's also a bit bothered by it.
it is sweet , you showed that you really care but , let her win a few and a you win a few so it's 50/50 .
I love playing against friends and slowly ramping up the difficulty each match as they learn new things, once they figure something out, I throw new things into the mix and make it slightly harder each time
the secret as "the better player" in these situations is to just experiment and mess around with your options, or even characters that you normally don't play as. relaxing your desire to win against your friends and just doing things for fun, not really caring about the results is how i keep playing with all of my friends even if im better than almost all of them. it makes them feel inclined to not care and just have fun too, which aspires their desire to improve when they play on their own -- so when they suddenly do get that surprise win or do something cool it makes them feel really good and helps them in seeing the fun of fighting games.
also, don't forget to be positive and compliment attempts at good plays to your friends! explaining why something works and why something doesn't work can really help their growth. ive been surprised by sudden genius moments where a beginner friend puts everything together and actually does some intermediate or even high-level shit which makes both of us feel really good (and hype lol)
This is way better than what I said. It is the secret, just messs around and test all the crazy bs you might find use for down the road.
Don't let others win. But you should sandbag, and by that I mean don't go optimal. Throw out some basic moves into small combos so they can learn to play against it. Basically if you're playing against a new player then play like you're a trainer. As they start to learn to Counter what you're using then start throwing out new moves for them to learn. Just don't go optimal until they start to
When introducing people to fighting games, I never curbstomp. Not only would that be massively unpleasant for most people on the recieving end, it is not the type of play that I find super entertaining. Might as well go into training mode and just do combos against a bot at that point. My goal is to get _them_ to become as strong as possible as quickly as possible, and throwing someone into the deep end is not the best method for everyone.
I had a game of GGST where I went 2/0 playing a potemkin mirror, and the opp wad kind of talking down about themselves and stuff. I kept hyping them up and tried to make their morale go up in between the sets, and they eventually win. I dont think I threw the game or anything, but I was genuinely trying to play the match to where they were able to learn how to play against me, and encouraged them throughout the set.
To me, going to locals is just about enjoying myself and that person REALLY looked happy going through the match and finally winning at the last moment. I only hope they got the same level of satisfaction from it that I did, cuz it felt great to see them overcome and learn from the mirror against me.
I guess the video answered the question, if there is money involved do not let others win, if not who cares.
I think in the context of playing a competitive game against friends, it depends on the goal your friend has. If they're trying to improve, then handicapping yourself is ultimately handicapping them. If they're playing with you just because they want to play a game with their friend, then I think it's fine to handicap yourself somehow in favor of just messing around and having a fun time.
Depends. An absolute beginner, if you go all out might literally not be able to perceive how they lost. And enough of that will drive anyone to stop playing.
@@Pandaman64 Certainly. But if they're an absolute beginner trying to improve at the game, I still don't think holding back would help them. I think you can play normally and then go over a vod with them and talk about their options and such. Or have them play against worse players.
true , fun time vs reall competion tournaments .
@@B3stpwnage Words can only go so far. It's way better to have them experience the events as they happen organically rather than make them watch a PowerPoint presentation. Perfectly stomping them super hard consecutively will probably fail to get across messages as the experience will just be "something I don't understand went wrong".
@@goncalocarneiro3043 There's certainly moment for teaching during gameplay. Of course you could always go into some kind of training mode where you become a teacher/coach. But playing for the express purpose of teaching is not the same to me as playing the game with them. I consider that being more of an interactive video. Not everybody learns neat that way though, some people prefer videos, solo practice modes, or reading guides.
Much like with getting new people into martial arts, whenever I introduce new people to fighting games, they enter knowing that I'm going to be drilling them to pick up fundamentals one brick at a time. They get their win if they can learn the lesson, they have a great time, and they understand what's going on from the get-go. If they up the ante, I will scale up with them. If I notice them figuring out mechanics sooner than expected, I will immediately pick up the pace, but scale it back if they're struggling. If they ask me to go as hard as possible so they can get an idea of what's even possible, I'll do it, and there's no hard feelings. Fighting games share a level sincerity and honesty with actual fighting in that you can't depend on outside influence; it's just you and your opponent in there, and the mirror that is your own ability. When you check the ego at the door, you get the most wonderful community there is.
Now that's a great way to see things. Inspiring, really.
When you bringed Smash to the table I was hoping you talked about the last evo of smash 4, where at grand finals both players stalled the match, homie stocked and started talking until the staff called them out, it was definitely a bad look and probably the last nail on sm4sh's coffin, which was already in a very bad place.
I recently saw that towards the end of finishing this video and was thinking of adding it in, but decided not to. Though I do think that is one of the bigger sandbag incidents that have happened in esports. It's crazy how that's how Smash 4 ended, though I never was a big fan of that game to begin with
Really good analysis, narration, music and visuals. Subbed.
i've always thought it was weird that people in the fgc don't put on the training brakes when they're playing people they know are weaker. like if you're not in bracket, it's directly analogous to sparring with a less skilled opponent in real martial arts. the important part is both people agreeing to it, which requires not caring so much about results and caring more about practice, which is ultimately way better for growth in the long run in all disciplines
Just look into sports or martial arts. Brown belts who destroy newbies are shunned at all the gyms I have been to.
Somehow i can never really play competitively, i will *always* sandbag if i see my opponent has a big disadvantage against me and i feel bad if don't do so, no matter if it's a casual game with my friends or a ranked match with a complete stranger.
Why not be the skillful guy that's also a superrr chill dude that has respect for people of all skill level? Why min/max on a noob? It gives back nothing. Grow the playerbase.... everyone wins. If everyone leaves who is there to get spicy with?
"Minion I'm a VILLAIN with No HERO. A Yin With No Yang. A Bull Fighter with NO BULL to FIGHT.. In other words:.....*I HAVE NO PURPOSE!*" - MegaMind.
I have done this with them. I do make them work a few times to get it though; to instill that value of learning how to control your character, and that rush of victory that comes from the self-improvement; to get them to love the experience of the game itself.
DnF Duel and Footsies are great for teaching fundamentals to newcomers.
But yeah, you don't fuck with brackets. Fully agreed there.
I love games like marvel vs capcom 2 that have that handycap thing. I can play with my girlfriend and she dont know that is it and i put it full for her and empty for me, so i can play normaly and she can win anyways and she feel the victory de real.
Exactly what I would do your a good gf/bf
I let friends win pretty often tbh, and I go easy on weaker players. When the result of a specific match doesn't matter to me, I experiment with stuff I would never try out if I were playing competitively. I try to learn new unorthodox stuff when I feel comfortable that I could definitely win if I really wanted to. Sometimes I will sandbag until low hp just to get more practice clutching comebacks.
I can add that lately I've played a bit of cardgames with someone I really care about and they're not as good as me. I do play to win but I really try to have their fun in mind as well. Then again, if I play too poorly they will notice, I also want to show them how you could play to position yourself better for the next turn. Or frankly the rest of the game. So its a fine balance, and sometimes you just draw really poorly and don't perform as well as you'd hope. Perhaps they're too passive and doesn't take the shots they should or can, being too passive holding back creatures that can't even block mine, I can't even block and trade favourably yet they let me keep gaining bit by bit.
So I guess I play to win but I also wanna help the other person getting better, I don't want them to notice that if I am playing really poorly, that I am sandbagging and letting them win. That is not fun either. I want to help them see the correct plays and capitalize when they can. But this will come with practice and everyone doesn't have as much time or the drive to practice for this.
I wrote this about 1min 40 sec into the vid a bit hastely, hopefully its understandable lol.
People just expect a black belt to beat the crap out of a white belt on his first day lol.... this is an issue I always had with people who played smash they don't know how to ease somebody in or don't care about anyone but themselves
Whenever I play video games against a new player I don't use everything I have at my disposal. I treat it as if I'm the end-of-tutorial skill test and I'm the one to teach the player how to respond to certain things. I'll make my actions reactable, I'll repeat something a few times to reinforce a response, but I won't go fucking ham.
I'm polite like that.
A fighting game video with DBZ memes and FF7 music ? You are getting a sub from me. Amazing video man!
I win initially and as time goes on I play marginally worse but keep victory just out of reach so when they do beat me it feels real and theres zero suspiscion of letting them win.
It's fun and I encourage them to get creative so when I lose it's more genuine because they pull out something I wasnt expecting.
You sound like Goku. Great voice dude.
(Lovely video : I tried teaching my buddy Blazblue a while back. He told me he learned best by getting his ass beat and will pick up from there.
I proceeded to 3-0 and he uninstalled. Similarly, I chose to not win in our League of Legends 1v1's, simply because the idea of him losing made him angry and removed a certain portion of the fun that was the sportsmanship that losing was ok.
So I subconsciously never really went to win but opted for fun. Years down the line has lead me to lose competitive edge because seeing people lose makes me feel bad😂).
I hold back when i play with my friends that don't have much experience with the game in question. But if they brag about... Time to lose!
Amazing video. The armored core music was a nice touch too
Yeah, I made this video because my friend group got in a big discussion about it. It really is understanding who you are playing against, but I think it's sometimes hard to judge if you don't know the other person well. But I guess that's what makes this topic interesting, at least to me
A fight is a conversation to get to know your opponent, and yourself. Some people don't find each other interesting. Thus they seek ways to keep it interesting. Sandbagging is often handicapping yourself to explore your ability to use just a limited toolset, or to check your opponent's ability to learn that particular mechanic. Top finishers mutually agreeing to an odd ruleset in a championship, while disrespectful to players not as good, is nonetheless a celebration of the skills they've built, and knowing that few others can "converse" on a level that they can. particularly understandable when you're a kid and that only other opponent is your literal brother--they're free at that point to play the game as THEY love it, and if you don't like it, beat them. Hayao's antics embody that same love of the game and a good fight. Are they obligated to play for the audience's delight, or for their own? I say their own, therefore the resolution is to choose tournament mechanics that reduce the chance of it, not to fault the players.
If I'm playing a fighting game with my buddies and they are rusty or not on my level I use less of my arsenal generally because I don't like subjecting them to everything I can throw at them if they are severely out of practice. I just try to play on a level field with anyone who's new to a game partially because I know what it's like to get rawdogged for hours at a time and I hate it cause it gets stale. I make sure I give my friend the run down on what I can do at the very least
I think the most infamous sandbag incident was the SC2 grand finals situation. I barely recall what I had read about it, but basically-
It was the first year that fighting game tournaments were really being covered in the media, so the top 2 people left agreed to split the pot and play explosively instead of their normal gameplay. (They thought SC2 was boring from a spectator pov) and once it came out, people assumed it was for more nefarious reasons than wanting to put on a good show while also guaranteeing a bit of cash afterwards.
My thoughts as a sandbagger:
When I'm picking up a new fighting game, I will absolutely try my hardest to improve to the level that I would love to play. I don't mind if people are sandbagging me cause I'm enjoying a game too much to care about it and I'm having fun with something I'm spending most of my time with that day. The sandbagging starts once I reach that level I'm satisfied with and I end up hiding my potential because now I'm prioritizing my fun over others improvements. It's not fun being a tryhard 24/7 as someone who used to participate in every tournament I could attend. It's not great for the mental at all and I hate the feeling of self disappointment. If others are being vocal about wanting to improve, I will absolutely try for them because that's what they want to do with their time and I respect that 1000%.
Sandbagging has it's positives and negatives. A positive would be someone that wants to get into fighting games for the first time and you have to level down for them so their improvement path can be as smooth as possible and they can continue to enjoy their experience with a fighting games but the drawback of that is when others catch on to what I'm doing and I answer with: "No comments." They know that I'm not putting in my 100% and it's discouraging for them and then I start to feel guilty for them as well cause I knew what it felt like trying my hardest to play at that level and I'm just kicking dirt all over them and a part of myself for doing that.
To this day, I'm still a premium sandbagger. I even do it in tournaments, friends, and randoms I meet in lobbies or in person. It's the only way now that I can enjoy fighting games and I know that I'm completely alone in this thought but without it, My last fighting game would've been in 2019. I'm thankful to all the friends I made along the way and I'm sorry for not pushing myself for you.
Not many think about this as much, I was questioning myself one time hanging out with friends, a games night. we had a small fun tournament. the prize was a 3d print trophy that glows in the dark which was pretty cool. the competitive came back to me and easily won. although they weren't good and of course only having fun. I felt like I should've let one of them win a single round, but few wish to beat me one day and totally get that. Side track here but I can't seem to find the song in 0:58 in the google docs. if anyone knows that would be nice
Most times I feel like the only person in my friend circle that cares if EVERYONE is having fun when we play and not just me. Thats why I tend to play low tiers in PvP and support roles in PvE. Somepeople are just too obsessed with the imaginary scoreboard in their head...
Situationally for me it depends. In SF6 if I'm in ranked, its no holds barred. I'm gonna be trying stuff but I'm not gonna be pulling punches.
In casuals or lobbies if I'm playing against someone, even if they are good enough to beat me, if I run into a situation they have trouble with or a button such the same, I will intentionally throw it out more often in similar situations to give them a chance to try to beat it. It helps them figure something out in a real setting and it even gives me information as to options against it.
Even further, if I'm playing against someone who is obviously new, and they eventually pull a really solid setup, mix, or oki situation on me, I'll let it hit me sometimes. Give them the reward for the hard work they've put in and encourage further delving into these things to strengthen them later down the road.
SUPER interesting topic, thank you this was an excellent videom i loved seeing specific examples and gameplays from the matches
Intentionally handicapping yourself is always more fun than trying to be serious. Much rather play goofy and lose than be boring and win.
I use it as a chance to learn something new. I would actively avoid using parts of my movelist (roman cancels on Milia in Strive or Azucena's high/low parries) just because it wasn't necessary to win, but trying them out greatly improved my gameplay. Yeah, I'd lose to someone who I had no business to, but I won matches I wouldn't have later.
I always try to match the skill of the person I'm fighting. If my opponent is a noob, I won't go full UI, concentration mode, instead, I'll try really hard to win while using only 50% of my focus. If my opponent is way more skilled, I'ma give it 110% focus.
Is definitely important to find someone who can serve as a middle ground for you to practice.
Is rough playing a new fighting game, especially one that has a small community were a lot of the veterans know the game from top to bottom.
Its pretty much the equivalent of trying to keep up with a rocket scientist in terms of work efficiency when you're just fresh off college for engineering.
You gonna have to study and
get your ass beat a lot at the game just to stand a hint of a chance, before being able to stand toe to toe with the rest of the players.
I think in casual contexts, it does better to play games where you can give yourself handicaps. Like they win if they manage to hit you once or some such.
1:37
No. Never.
If someone ever let me win I would feel humillated, burned, and basically it would be a huge insult.
Things change if you give a heads up and we are like training or practicing, that’s fine. It’s when you do it without telling the other person that it becomes a big insult IMO.
Yaknow? I'ma go a bit easy on my bud in GGST because of this video, thank you.
And that's why my non fighting game friends don't want to play with me anymore. They think that i just want to show off. 😅
For me, in guilty gear, I will intentionally place myself into a tier that I won’t have the highest chance to win at. Close to a snowballs chance in hell kinda of tier lol
For me, my area seems to be floor 7 through 9.
I often start off my day with at least 6 full sets with players at floor 10. I know full and well that those celestial players that have more hours in their off characters than I have in my one main will likely wipe the floor with me. And they do lol
So I made it a mission of mine to do the following. Try my hardest for the first two rounds, then, if I am just getting demolished and obliterated, I give the respectful taunt in the final round.
I make it a mission of mine to deliver them that respect taunt. Often I get 3x responses back for my efforts.
A. They respect back and we initiate a funny rounds of nonsense. Queue Potemkin mirror match shenanigans (butt bomb jumps, slide head exchanges, infinity “dab-me-ups”)
B. They respect back but then start up the round again. To which I attempt to fight back (only after they initiate it again)
C. They simply go in for the kill. Usually for this one I will fight back but know that I’m going to die, so I try and make my final HP amount be used for the final respect taunt.
I never give a win away to someone unless I know them or can see that they’re new to their character.
Under such circumstances I sandbag BUT with the intention of having them learn the counter play to a move.
Like, I’ll see that they can’t stop my potemkins hammer fall. So I will start using it as my sole move but not in a hyper spam way. Just enough to have it hit and see them try options out.
If they learn their characters multi hit move or to grab it, then I will move to the next move that seems to give them struggles. Repeat till round / set ends. I also tell them that they did good post round and what to do against those moves in the future. Offering them a rematch to test out the moves or to go at it fresh again ^w^
Armored Core 4A music detected during League segment. Neurons activated. Like button pressed.
When a bigger and smaller rat playfight, the bigger rat has to let the smaller one win 30% of the time or else the smaller one will stop playing with the bigger one
Make of that what you will
Sometimes I also think that it’s hard fight a new player because they would play off of randomness rather than what you would think they should do. Reminds me of the drunken fist 😂
If im playing against someone i know is new to a game or not at my skill level i just don't use my main but still try to win. It's a good time to learn another character.
This is what I do as well sometimes. Though if I'm at a tournament and still need to play my matches, I unfortunately need to play my main to stay warmed up. I do feel bad if I know the other player is frustrated and I don't like giving unsolicited advice because then it can come off condescending. So I just hope they say something
I'd argue no, but I also have a lot of weirdness when it comes to this.
I have nieces and nephews, along with an older sister. If I sandbagged to the young ones it was "damn, you suck at this game", and if I won it was "wow you're bullying people, you suck".
There's really no winning when it comes to playing with people beneath your level.
Every time I here low tier I remember that time Soraka mid was completely busted due to blatant balancing mistake in the supporter rework. She basically played like a strictly stronger version of Mordekaiser with more range and explicitly countering mid lane champions. So needless to say My winrate rose to 80% for that patch. Because I steamrolled mid hard almost every match I got the position. And then started going for the reast and saving other lanes randomly with my ult. Precisely because I am not that good. So in my elo most people just blindly follow guides without understanding the mechanics.
Well, I read patch notes.
And one patch later Soraka was nerfed into the ground because other people noticed the exact thing I noticed.
But it was fun while it lasted. Which was not very long, they address problems that severe rather fast
Sometimes, if you want. Its your match to win or lose if you know you'd never lose trying
Relationships are important in all facets. And relationships also exist in games, and the way you interact with someone depends on the relationship you have with them. Someone at your level can be a "Rival", and you both can easily improve one another by tackling the challenge of an equal with full force. But what is someone who's way weaker? A rival they are not, since you know how to deal with them perfectly, they are therefore "nothing", why play with them? The answer is, they could be a "pupil". Same the other way around. Someone infinitely stronger than you isn't a "fair challenge", you can't even remotely do anything against it that works, an untouchable wall, they're nothing. But they could be a "mentor". Why not just accept pupil/mentor as the default for overwhelming differences in skill level? It feels like everyone treats everyone as a rival and then they're surprised when the others don't bite.
My cousin Never let me win, he had fun being the better player until I started beating him.
I'll always remember him putting the controller on the table "I'm done, if you're just gonna throw 20 hadoukens in the corner I'm not player anymore".
Oh year he didn't like Corners we had a rule of No Corners.
Bro why did I get ur video just now when it was made 4 days ago great vid by the way
Probably because it's a little different from my usual videos and youtube is just being youtube. Glad you still got it and enjoyed it though :)
This makes me happy and becoming hopeful over it.
Of course my opinion is shaped by my experience and in my experience what inspired me the most to get better at fighting games was getting double perfected by the character I use now. So I believe you should not let others win, but the opposite, become the mountain they have to climb. Of course this comes from a super competitive mindset but tbf fighting games are competitive and if your idea is to get them into the game and not just play for fun once every weekend, they are going to get destroyed as soon as they enter the online mode, so it’s better if you destroy them first in your own terms or at least in a way that shows them how cool the game can become once you master it. Basically I think that if they can’t stand losing a bunch against you they are not going to stick to the game anyways, so in my opinion go all out.
Just as a fun story, I remember I played Smash against a kid in a fighting game convention and I had to show him how it was done, the kid was actually pretty cool after losing, the only time I lost in purpose was when another kid came but this one was with his mother so I couldn’t do it.
I think the question is yes sometimes. I should have learned to let my brother win when playing smash bros, but I was full of myself and just needed to win. If I did that he would also feel better too.
Handicaps are fine. Not trying and letting people get false wins is ingenuine. I don't like people pitying me and letting me have games to placate my ego. I want them to try so I can overcome the challenge put before me. Coaching sessions are fine, where you teach specific answers and strategies, but in a real match, you should be trying. If you are tired of losing against a better opponent, add handicaps or find an opponent closer to your skill level.
Nah, I'm with Justin Wong. They gonna learn today. Realistically I think you should not pretend to be trying to win, but actually throw the match, even against a child or newcomer. Playing with a handicap that you disclose to try and make a closer match is a different thing though and I feel thats a better substitute.
It strongly depends. To me, someone letting me win would be even worse than losing, since it's not even a win, it's a pity hand out. If a player is at a skill level where they wouldn't even be able to tell that someone's not trying (like a little kid), then sure try to make it close for them. But most people who have any idea how to actually play can usually tell if someone that's significantly stronger than them just stops trying.
Playing down to someone's level can also help them sharply see where their faults as players lie. Like if someone never baits DPs during blockstrings or on your wakeup, so you just DP every chance you get. But that's a somewhat different discussion.
It's also a unique feeling to finally, genuinely beat someone at something they once completely outclassed you in. Or to have someone develop enough that they can start fighting you evenly on the other side of things.
In tournament? Hell no. Easing up on someone there, unless it's an opponent where you absolutely know you can body them with one arm tied behind your back, accomplishes nothing. Part of entering a tournament at all is to see how far your skill can take you, and if the answer is "0-2" then that's that, no use to have a stronger competitor try to sugarcoat it.
HELL NO! Most people and most gamers are already terrified of fighting games…LETTING them win is a mistake,they’re either not gonna run it back or see how bad they are when you don’t go easy and never wanna play again.
The clip at 4:00 is actually an infamous clip, the guy who lost is the one popping off at hungry box
Yeah I know. I just used it for the visual, but it probably doesn't make sense if you know the context lol
5:14 1000 years to train and kenjaku still got his ass wiped in Guilty gear
Letting others win until they get that cocky attitude and then you start playing seriously and seeing their faces is peak feeling
I tend to try not to sandbag or let people win when i play them. if I am teaching them ill switch to character i dont know to make it better for them and start putting rules on myself to slow it down, but i do try to win or at least try to teach something directly (like jumping in alot to force them to AA)
Personnaly if I'm playing ranked (or similar) I won't play chill, I'll give my best. When playing w/ friends or in a non-ranked I'll just play for fun. And right-now I just bringed a friend in ggst and instead of going full try hard I just play pot chill or play characters I never played without looking at their specials.
Whenever I play fighting games with friends who are worse than me I usually play characters I don’t normally play but still try to win
I have a friend who i sandbagged for and let him win every once in a while. He then said he can take the beating so I stopped. I think im on a 50+ game winning streak across multiple fighting games.
Sorry to say i don't let them win as you learn from a loss, and if you win, then you've earned it
To be honest I'm absolute shit at fighting games, like sure I've been on and off them over the past year and learned a good bit, but I'd still consider myself a noob.
It's crazy how huge of a gap there is between when I first started out and where I am now, and I haven't even actually learned good fundamentals yet.
I'm sure I would absolutely destroy my older self in any FG now. The least I can do when showing this genre to friends who aren't invested in it, is give them a bit of an easier time.
If I didn’t let my friends win. I’d have no one to play with 😭 ranked is coo, but I’m not really one for meeting random people online to play against/train. My friends enjoy fightings games but I happen to be the best out of that circle of friends. Once I get too good no one plays with me, so I’ll let them win sometimes. I try to teach them, but I’m far too advanced at this point for them to learn at the same rate
I do let others win a lot in SF6 ranked.
Specially when opponent is clearly better than me, or when the opponent does some stupid disrespect, like T-bagging me when I'm stunned or something.
Are you in a tournament? is money on the line?
If those two questions are yes, then you should go all out on them.
Every other time, you should be playing to have fun. Yes, even during training and having long sets with your training partner.
The FGC is too dang broke to meaningfully invest your time into. Unless you're a pro and it's all you know. Bur you're a special case, anyways. it's your job to win. Just don't expect that same expectation when it comes to normies you find online.
This is why you can't play fighting games for fun with friends. It's either "you're trying so hard to win" or "why are you letting me win", when In reality you're barely engaged as they hold upback desperately searching for a neutral skip. Complaints of bad matchups or unfair/dull system mechanics usually arn't far away either, as they run the same repetitive uninspired offense.
I don’t like people letting me win or they give up and let me win. I think of it like a waste of my time.
Played tekken with a friend recently. He is at red ranks and my highest is tekken king. So I picked a character I'm not that good at and gave him a game or two. I never told him but dude was motivated from our matches and managed to get to purple ranks haha
I could go tryhard and not let him get a single round but then he might stop want to playing against me so hey why not give up a game or two? Once the opponent is good enough I'll go all out
i always let any opponent that is significantly weaker than me win.
You don't need to let them win always. You can let them win when they get better, like with a reward system.
Vs friends or newer players I just try to win in Specific ways. Like if smash I wanna get a ganoncide or a certain spike or I won’t try to win. Or if tekken since I play Steve I’ll try to get the back 3, 2 off (pretty difficult)
Even if you let them win, and they get into the game, they will run into someone who destroys them. getting destroyed in a fighting game means they don't get to play. After having this happen to them a few times they will feel like they're wasting their time and simply stop playing entirely. Fighting games need to figure out how to make losing less painful. perhaps have cosmetic rewards that you build towards whether you win or lose
I just give new players the "WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD" treatment
I wonder if that kid actually learned that day
@@therealperfectnamecan’t speak for everyone, but when I got started in Tekken years ago, getting my ass beat by my friends was inspiring in a sense. It fueled me to get in the lab and learn the counter-play. Doesn’t work for everyone but there’s no harm in getting clapped, it’s a right of passage in my eyes.
I don't let people win, but i will occasionally attempt extremely suboptimal playstyles if i see you struggling hard with a certain thing.
Like, if I've shown you how to anti air in SF, and you still just can't deal with jump ins, I'll jump at you A LOT until you start countering it before dialing it back to the knowledge check im expecting you to have.
I give the win to clearly new people while just doing things to familiarize them with mechanics/gameplay.
For anyone that's clearly competent, it's gloves off unless they say something.
Honestly I think what works best is setting expectations outright by asking before starting.
"I am the world champion of this board game, would you like a relaxed game since you're starting or would you like to see me go all out and see high level play?"
Which is half a joke half a conversation I've had plenty of times when playing Fatal KnockOut, one of my favourite board games.
Then again, at other times I play more like a D&D DM: sure you can put an atropal against a level 8 party and wipe them out in a couple of turns but then nobody has fun and the game is ruined, I'd much rather act like a tour guide showing cool things that can be done in the game without annihilating the competition.
The problem with this is that it could come off as condescending or as a challenge. It's different if they are asking you to play with a handicap vs the better player boasting about their skill and saying they can dumb down their skill against the weaker player.
Not saying this is a bad idea, but I would ask "what if someone said this to me and how would I feel?" Even if you say it as a joke the delivery could come off differently
@@therealperfectname That is a very good point I had not considered, thank you.
I will definitely need to find a better delivery, even if what I wrote was for humour.
I would personally appreciate the other person acknowledging their own skill/time investment to have an idea of how goo they can be at the game, especially if I am new; I remember this happening with a friend of mine when I tried Magic for the first time.
I do wonder if adding "but I can always be surprised by new players: competing at a higher level makes it easy to fall in a comfortable meta" would be helpful.
I usually hold myself by using chara i dont know how to play with when playing against my friend who new to this genre
I do this as well. I think it's a pretty solid way to handicap yourself while also still being able to try
I've definitely had a couple times where I was stomping just a little too hard, but instead of sandbagging I find it more fun to swap to characters or strategies I'm a bit more unfamiliar with. That way everyone wins :)
is that alpharad in the back
media offline jumpscare
Me and my best friend have been playing tekken together since crossing paths on little big planet and bonding over Tekken and rap music hes always been better than me but guess what when i win i know its legit, all the rounds and rounds of Tekken we played over da years, all the ass whooping I done received fundamental taught me how to play better i almost barely ever lose in tekken against other ppl cause me and bro just spar.
12:56 music?
Dragon ball Z - Android 16 theme
I drove my buddy away from tekken but it was for the better for him and the FGC lmao
Never let someone win, but let them play. Been teaching my gf dbfz. Instead of doing the most insane blockstrings I can, I just do basic strings to have her learn what to do. I 2H her super dashes so she learns to approach differently. But I don’t TOD her over and over off of the most insane mix I can do.
Great approach.
rediamnot on screen is crazy
It's just a game it's ok to let others win.
People say things wrong all the time. And you cant know unless someone tells you. But his name pronounced Die-go. Not die-ago.
I don't "let" people win I taunt like vegita because if you need the handicap you'll take the swing but if you have any respect you'll taunt back
To me it feels patronizing even if I don't know anything, "let this idiot get a couple of hits in". Doesn't feel like I earned my hits.