Some of the best matches I've had were against stronger opponents. Spent an hour fighting one guy on T7 using King, he was up like 40-15 but he kept accepting the rematch because he saw that I was learning little by little. The more I kept adjusting, the more he started pulling off advanced moves
Some of the friendlier fgc players I've met have been on T7, the rematch feature in that game is perfect for it I have also met some of the nastiest people I've met have been on there too
i was doing player matches in tekken and my Mighty ruler asuka came face to face with a Tekken god Akuma... he destroyed me, send me a friend request on steam and asked me if i wanted to learn what to do against Akuma. we've been having casual matches every now and then and i learned a lot. i really like this aspect of the fighting game community
Yea Pat Gill and BDG carried Polygon for the past couple of years and now the channel itself has the best content by far out of all the game journalist channels
@@viaxon6 Nah, it's a great thing for Brian. He didn't want to have his own brand be associated with gaming anymore and wanted to explore weirder ventures and his content has improved a ton because of it.
When I got sober and needed a new hobby, I chose fighting games. They honestly helped save my life , including this channel. It's been one of the funnest journeys of my life and a way to stick thru the hard times. I'm about to hit gold with Chun Li this weekend, then the world is mine 💪
My best friend used to spend time in and out of rehab. He leaned on fighting games too. I used to be more or less a casual only playing Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter mostly. But whenever he would get out, we would play a bunch of fighting games. He would tell me about some I need to get into and got me heavily into the genre. He lost the fight earlier this year and playing fighting games aren’t quite the same. But I’ve made it a point to seek out and purchase the games he would mention over the years. Reading your comment made me think of him. Stay strong brotha
> hit gold with Chun Li this weekend, then the world is mine I guess you will have become... the World Warrior. Thank you, I have been here since the late '80s and I'll be here all week.
I know the general opinion on major gaming publications has soured over the years. But I think the RUclips side of polygon has always been very solid, even without Brian.
And regarding OP, I'm not all too familiar with Polygon's video work but I wouldn't be surprised if it's all superior to the garbage they fill their website with. It'd be the same as Vice whose "news" pieces are a laughing stock of the internet while their documentary work is legendary for its quality.
I remember as a kid my dad got me into fighting games my first game was SNES KI, so much so that he took me to a local tournament in Mexico and I won. The amount of satisfaction I got moving up the brackets when people were just saying “He’s just a kid” was a feeling like no other. Fighting games just have a way of bringing people together and that’s such an amazing thing.
haha reminds me of a trip to PR. Rocking people at a local arcade while playing Tekken 3 Tag. After what felt like forever I got DeStRoYeD by a chick and the arcade group went wild. Amazing feeling like yours :)
I’m reminded of a quote that was on of the best pieces of advice I got regarding fighting games. “You have to earn a collection of L’s yourself before you can start handing them out to others”
I always tell myself to love taking L's (Lessons on how to improve in fighting games). Helps to take the sting outta losing and to savior the small victories
Having taken up Muay Thai some years back, it made me reflect on the "I can't seem to read people's movement/how to pick up on habits" comment. I felt the same way starting out in Muay Thai. We were taught how to slip jabs and crosses or how to roll under a hook. At first it was hard picking up on when to do certain movements but the more I fought and trained, it became easier. Every opponent was different so the challenge was learning their method of combat, looking for weaknesses or entry points and developing a plan. It's literally the same way in fighting games. The crazy part as well is when you actually do start learning martial arts, you start looking at and playing fighting games different. Not just running in, using feints, jabbing or "footsies" as it's referred to in fighting games. The jab is one of the most important tools in a fight. It's not just about flashy combos. It literally all just comes down to train and get better. Don't be afraid to lose. NO ONE goes into a fight without experience being a badass and there will always be someone better than you at something. Just keep fighting and better yourself.
Personally I think we need a very strong single player presence in fighting games again. When I talk to friends and family I used to play fighting games with all the time, we look back and talk about things like MKA's mario kart mode or Deceptions tetris fighter, chess combat, konquest mode, etc sometimes more fondly than the games core fighting. Tekken had things like devil within, all the arcade ending cutscenes, tekken ball, tekken force. Street fighter alpha 3 had that tour mode and optional final boss esque bison fight tile. If you got frustrated with the core game you could do other things while you simmer down and I really miss that.
This man spits facts right here. Multiplayer, ranked, lobbies, SF V dropped without Story mode at all, wtf ? They forget about old games with great single modes and stuff ? Damn
This is true, Like they can develop whole other games yet for fighters now it's worse than arcades. Since back then there were all sorts of limits, not there aren't any and now games feel emptier.
@@ExeErdna empty is a good word to describe it. It's like they developed the minimal viable product which is the games multiplayer and maybe single player then buh bye enjoy the game
Oh good God this is true. My favourite street fighter is Alpha 3, and I've put so many hours into the world mission mode or whatever it's called. I love playing Cammy and Rolento with maxed out attack and lowered defenses, and having to switch up your ism for different missions and figure out the best way to overcome different challenges you aren't getting on multiplayer is so much fun when you just wanna get drunk at 2am and play around in single player.
I remember my brother picking me up from school and taking me to a little shop that had an arcade hosting MvC. I recall seeing the colours flashing, seeing all these characters bouncing around doing things I thought were cool, and just being blown away. I was afraid to try at the time because this was still when gaming was seen as a guy thing, but when I slid the first quarter in and got my ass handed to me, I knew this was a genre I wanted to invest in. I may not be the best, but I still feel as ecstatic as I did as a child when I push buttons and see my characters do some cool shit.
Letting gaming slant towards being a "guy thing" must be the greatest failure of the gaming industry...not just economically but for all the players that could have had a good time with it.
i got lucky that my mom liked videogames when i was growing up, so even if none of my girl friends played them, it still didnt feel like a guys thing to me she used to take me to the local arcades with her best friend when i was a baby, then she worked at a videogame store and took me with her when no one could take care of me, and from that job she got herself a ps2 with mvc2, and she really wanted me to learn that game her "teaching" was just her beating me up relentlessly (in-game thankfully) while telling me what to do, and maaaybe letting me win if i was getting sad, but now i treasure those times with her so much! (btw the characters that made me not quit my mom's training were hayato and morrigan, i thought they were the coolest :>)
@@AlynRapi Hayato is still one of the coolest Capcom characters, and it's a tragedy that he wasn't brought back in MvC3 or MvCI. If we eventually get an MvC4(?) or a CvS3, Hayato HAS to come back. (Also, if anyone reading this hasn't seen Star Gladiator 2/Plasma Sword, do it RIGHT NOW. It's awesome!)
@@BknMoonStudios The fact Captain Commando ("The Capcom Universes most powerful superhero") was NOT put into MVC3 (a game about superheroes) and instead replaced by C Viper is so moronically stupid. Hayato's cool, Star Gladiator is a fun franchise. I also like how you can turn into Black Hayato even if it's just for one move.
That Polygon video (and Max's comments) on fighting games somehow helped me deal with some issues that are very, very far from being fighting game-related. Didn't expect that, but I'm glad it happened. Thnx.
That bit about self worth really got to me, I do it with games sometimes, but in general we often tie our worth to things we don't have a lot of, or any, control over. It's good to spot when we're just beating ourselves up and distance ourselves from the cause.
33:47 Honestly the character levels for Guilty Gear Strive are a part of the reason it's probably the first fighting game I've really played the online for regularly and seriously. Even when I lose, I might still get a level up which will give me credits which I can use to go fishing for digital figure mode items. Also, Digital figure mode is a really nice way to cool down after some bad matches, so it's nice to have that kinda thing in a fighting game.
I think this is the most important part by a long shot, that a lot of people in the discussion are missing. Fighting games need to start being about more than just fighting in terms of gameplay. People need breaks when playing these games, both to cool down and to hone their muscle memory. Back in the day you'd have gone to another arcade machine and came back later, but that's not how we play games nowadays, and fighting games havn't really adapted to that. If someone is gonna take a break from your game and go play something else, with how much games vie for your attention nowadays, this can be a critical drop point for many people. Giving people the ability to spend time doing something other than fighting within your game, even if just as a short pastime, can do wonders for retaining players.
@@DatBisa I feel like that’s the main reason why mk 11 was so successful because it’s not just about the fighting all the time, there’s the krypt which gives you a way to unwind after some games by unlocking new items and the fact that it also has a customization mode where you can unlock cosmetics for your characters which allows you to express yourself through the characters you play, hell even the variation system in mk 11 works great since you can make your own variations for characters, then the story is also there for if you don’t want to play online, overall I just think nrs has been doing great in terms of giving players options with all the content their games have regardless of how you feel about nrs games love em or hate em they’re doing something right.
Its part of what makes Smash work I think, especially from Melee, of having options that aren't bashing your head on another player, stuff like Adventure and Bonus Stage modes and Figures or the like where the game just lets you fuck about
I kinda love that this mentality of keep going, fight stronger opponents, and get stronger alongside them is the driving mindset of fighting game's most iconic character, Ryu
14:35 I've found out with a fight stick I can actually perform moves that require you to go from back to forward or down to up. I could never for the life of me actually perform any move like that on a regular controller. I can actually play Leo Whitefang and Charlotta now, and it makes me so happy.
I felt VERY uncomfortable with fighting games and I still only dabble in a certain few. I watched a video of Max's a few years back for the first time and I immediately gravitated toward him. He's super knowledgable and clearly has a love for the genre. I feel that transferred to myself and I was able to try new things in fighting games I otherwise wouldn't have understood as in depth as he can explain. Due to this I was able to enjoy and find the pull that fighting games can have. Can definitely confirm, PLAY WHAT YOU THINK LOOKS COOL / LOOKS FUN. You are immensely more likely to actually learn the game's mechanics and enjoy your time in it far more. To this day I credit Max and will always credit him and his influence he had on me. Use the 'tutorial' educational videos he and others have made. Thank you Max! ❤️
"Find whatever gives you the spark" So true. I played FighterZ, BlazBlue and probably a few others I can't remember. I know I felt something but when I played the SF6 closed beta.... I went CRAZY for a few minutes. The rush and excitement of discovering combos and learning peoples play styles was such a new feeling and overcoming your enemies was so amazing. It made me so hype for when the game comes out that I really really REALLY want to try and be a good player and it's made me excited to check out Tekken 8 when that comes out.
I'm not going to lie, outside of some minor arcade play over the years, I almost never play games against humans any more. This video and listening to the both of you might get me to go back into things and give it a try again.
On point 8 I couldn't agree more. I remember in Strive there was this one Sol player in the public lobbies who I kept playing with and losing. Eventually I was able to take a round, then a match. And then I won 3 matches in a row. It felt rewarding to actually feel the game click, and understand that character more
It feels GREAT to learn. Me and a Millia player went back and forth for 30 matches straight, with no voice chat, learning strats and picking up on what works. We were both getting better. It’s SO much better, than when some rando takes his one win and leaves
This is the best thing ever. I've been getting into T7 lately as a bit of a noob, was playing set after set losing every round - but then I started slowly catching onto his habits, until I somehow got a round! I still lost the game, but I felt accomplished either way.
@@starfire4302 long sets are fun for that. Once you get used to each other you can literally see their brain working trying to find new ways to penetrate your defense.. and so can they. The best sets ive ever had were long sets.
This video came like a gift from the gods for me; these all have been questions I’ve been trying to find honest answers too about starting in fighting games. Love it, thanks Max and Polygon!
24:25 is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been struggling so much to identify hit confirms and pull out the combos I've mastered in training. It's really good to hear that inputting the combo after a hit confirm is just really hard, and it's not something that should be coming easy.
25:41 Glad max said this because it's another important piece of advice to mention. There will be those who never be able to figure out how to get better at fighting games because the mental capacity for what is needed just isn't there for some people. That doesn't mean you're less of person or that something is wrong with you, some things are just what they are. So, it's best to keep playing what you enjoy and are good at playing.
@CriticalErr0r It's not your fault though. I hope you do know that. For some of us, it's just like that. I'm the same way with fighting games and i've been playing them for the same amount of years.
I wouldn’t say “mental capacity” though that may indeed be what it is. It just has a “hey stupid” connotation that goes with it. Personally I might say reflexes or reactions or hand eye coordination and there are definitely differences in what you are born with and can muster. As an example I’m pretty decent at fighting games but now I’m in my mid 40’s and the reflexes just aren’t what they used to be. I’m VERY good at certain aspects of fighting games but very bad at others. Button muscle memory is one of the things that I’m very bad at. I’ll know what the buttons of a game do, perfectly… but because the game/character is different from the one I grew accustomed to, I’ll have muscle memory from that character or game leak into my gameplay and disrupt my ability to quickly learn combos, even tho the combo may technically be very easy for me. Then I know players that can master and learn the combos of multiple characters in less than a week, even on new games. Those people just have very good button muscle memory so they can easily learn completely new things. I’d put it like this: Learning a new song once you’ve mastered an instrument will take time, but some people will simply be able to do it much quicker than others, even if they play all the same songs at a the same current level.
@@dimex3362 I hope people don't believe that it means that they're stupid, because that's not it. The whole mental capacity statement can be put into the same concept something like eyesight. Some people are just born with naturally better eyesight than others. No one is really at fault because of it, that's just the way it is.
I feel like this is almost a good guide for getting into any game genre. For me I've always been infatuated with fps games, I could (and for the most part do) just sit and only play csgo for the rest of my life. Even if its the same maps and the same mechanics forever, something about it feels so pure. I've also been interested in fighting games and have been watching Max for years, but I never have the urge to fully get into the games. Those games are so humbling to play cause I am just awful at them and its crazy cause every player you ever play is just a god and hits all the combos.
not even just games, but a good guide to any sort of 'hobby' or area of art for one reason or another, we've brought up an entire generation (or two) believing that "communities" are impenetrable and need to be easily accessible, the gates and rites of passage set aside despite being the most important part(s) your own effort and approach will always dictate your experience in any area of art and entertainment (arguably in any area of life)
I'm in your same position, and since i dont have a powerfull pc right now, i can't play many fps games,. Due to this i'm trying to hype myself and get into a fighting game. I truly liked this video and felt identified bt your comment, so i will let you know of my progress as a fellow cs enthusiast.
Learning fighting games was truly a "Journey" in every sense of the word. It took months before I felt comfortable and thought I could hold my own online, and not even be good just feel that I was competent.
As a noob I can tell you, there are days I'll be super motivated to learn and practice. Especially after watching some sick videos. But after 2 hours of getting smashed it really kills the drive. So now I only play fighting games with my friends since we all suck and I might actually pull off a 10 hit combo (love steve fox btw) lol
When I'm playing fighting games in general I have a general rule Ive placed on myself "If I lose 5 games I'll take a break and watch some replays." and ngl it helped me a lot in improving. Also spending 12 hours in training mode on new games :P
When I got into Tekken I got destroyed online but what helped me get through it was a rule I made where I'd keep pressing Rematch until i won at least one match. That turned these overwhelmingly difficult opponents into boss fights and when I did manage to win once, I'd take a break.
Man, i can’t believe i’ve been playing since covid, and all that time- i got so lucky with what i chose to pick to first play and get interested in. I found gg xrd to be the cool game i wanted to play but found too hard- but mbccaa/melty is the moment it all clicked for me. As a relatively new player, i’ve gotta say- PUT SPECIAL ATTACK MOTION INPUTS ON THE SCREEN AGAIN or the option to (like the recent MK that allows you to pick moves you want to use on a list and keep on screen) This i think was the life-saver for me that was the tedious part of learning moves. Being on the screen helped me organize and learn what moves could go next to what, then finally chaining them all together. Another would be to have more simpler move list ui, looking at you SFV with your 5 pages each just listing 2 moves. Anyways, after all that GG:Strive released and the rest was history.
@@pennyisdreadful why was it for you? To me i think the anime fighting game genre sold it, due to how easily readable the moves were and the movement options compared to Tekken and SF- maybe that was personal but boy did it work.
MK11 command list tag feature really helped my friends wife actually be able to play with us (a little). Obviously it didn't turn her into a pro immediately and she still literally always forgot to block but it was a stepping stone. No idea what to do but if I press the buttons in this order my character does some cool shit and that was good enough for her to play with us
Pat Gill is absolute gold! I suggest looking for more of his videos, they're all like this (The Monster Hunter one is very similar). Seeing him with Brian David Gilbert was always comedy gold
I still remember Max's Assist me videos. I cannot believe I have been watching you for a decade. Thank you for all of your content over the years and man I credit you for getting me into fighting games. UMVC3!
34:00 I totally am with Max on this one. Honestly, rewarding somebody even though its only EXP to progress a sort of "Reward" system is something to keep players engaged. Like give us some sort of battlepass-like system, of course I'm not suggesting we buy battlepasses but give us some sort of system like this one that rewards possibly, skins for the characters that can only be obtainable at a certain period of time or something like that. Im not a video game designer or anything but this IMO is a positive change. Something like that will be better in the long run, to reduce people's salt from losing, cuz let's be honest no one likes to lose on a 1v1 fighting game. If you have some sort of exp system, we have some sort of an end-game to chase even though we are losing our games and keep the players motivated to keep playing.
Huge agreed, for me personally, even though I try to adhere to the "play for fun, not to win" mindspace as much as possible, whenever I reach a point in online where whatever ELO system they use starts going DOWN, it completely takes the wind out of my sails. Why play when it causes me to actively lose something, as meaningless as it might be? It makes my brain go "the only winning move is not to play", having some kind of secondary "For Fun" reward that you get just for playing the game regardless of win or lose is something more fighting games NEED to retain players.
You can blame Lil Majin for getting me into King and Tekken both, haha. Pretty similar experience to the presenter's, I was pretty new to fighting games, and entirely new to Tekken so the King experience was difficult. But I loved the character, loved the wrestling moves and stuck with it. And Tekken's complexity was what fascinated me about the game. And I felt that sense of accomplishment from learning more advanced techniques and developing game knowledge. The inconsistent netcode and other issues turned me off from playing the game a while ago, but man when Tekken is good it is one of the best games out there. Played a few other fighting games since then as well, even had the pleasure of playing a few classic titles.
The biggest problem with practicing combos is when you get into the mindset to just look for an opening to land your combo. I've lost a lot of matches because I wasn't really fighting the guy, I was just looking for different openings to do things I was practicing...
I really hope SF6 is finally *that game* for me to get into deep. It's difficult to get into a FG that doesn't nail everything without just deciding that it's not worth it when I could be playing another grenre with more variety instead.
Check the announced character list for SF6 and practice on SFV :D It's on sale really cheap rn and you'll get a big headstart if you learn the basics now; They'll translate over to SF6
@@metametang7628 not lame, if you have no experienced Brian David Gilbert and his stuff for polygon, please absolutely go look it all up, it's the best stuff they've ever put out
I got "more" into fighting games when I found out a friend of mine was REALLY good at them. He wrote guides for a major company and showed me what it was all about. Fight sticks aren't necessarily needed but very useful if you grew up in an arcade. He has now moved on to the HitBox, but I'm still keeping to stick. Looking for a Series S stick now
MK1/MK2/SF2 got me into fighters when I was a third grader. I forget that these games are technically hard. To me, they feel like playing a musical instrument.
@@princemwamba5230 honestly, the concept of playing an instrument is super easy to understand once you have a general grasp on music structure, but it's a matter of taking that understanding and actually applying it to the instrument, just like combos in fg's
I'm kind of jazzed up on fighting games all over again with this. It was so validating to follow this video and trace the journey I've taken to be as good as I am. It gives me faith that I can go even higher, even when it feels like I've plateaued, and it makes me think my aspirations aren't impossible to reach. Good on Polygon, and good on you, Max.
Just got a PS5 and a few fighting games a few days ago. This is the first time back on fighting games since MVC2 on the PS2. Seeing the original video and Max's reaction to it is very heartening to hear. I'm pretty excited about resuming this journey.
here because I'm starting my fighting game journey soon, Max's videos have been super helpful for a newbie who knows almost nothing but just the name of a couple of characters ❤
I get the same feeling from playing ukulele, programming, or playing flight sims or skateboarding. It's the really intricate technical stuff that hooks me and it feels really good to finally pull off the cool thing.
I saw this video, raised an eyebrow, settled in for a hard watch but he hits so many nails on so many heads. I'm still on the whole journey of getting back into fighting games, I played the shit out of SFIV and SSFIV back in the day when I was younger but for some reason now coming back I get so anxious going into ranked or anything like that it's unreal, one day haha
How to get into fighting games: Grow up watching Max’s amazing series, Assist me. That’s what got me! Along with a dad who played Street Fighter with me as a kid.
I wonder if a possible solutioneering measure for the issue of "taking a break when frustrated is a dropoff point for people" might be the inclusion of a more relaxing minigame. Sort of like how Smash Bros. Brawl had the coin launcher game for unlocking stuff when you don't want to just play matches or run through Subspace again, or Splatoon 1's Squid Jump minigame, something simple and arcadey like that where you can earn some rewards but you're not playing for clout, just fun. I know that's kind of just "the Nintendo move" but I think it could genuinely help.
I absolutely think that pacing is vital to any video game. And playing fighting games online has no pacing beyond connection time -- when you're in game, it's all intensity all the time, and when you're out of game, either you're watching Netflix on the other monitor because you're fucking bored, or you're trying to make the best use of your training mode time, which is intense in its own way. I truly and honestly think that adding some way for people to engage with the game in a chill, relaxed way between matches, would VASTLY improve player retention among newcomers. Getting into fighting games can be mentally exhausting, especially for working adults who have spent their entire day stressing over work.
The fighting game that clicked with me was Tekken 7. I’ve always enjoyed the music and the simplicity of it but one day, I turned on Tekken 7 and spent the day actually trying to learn. Chose Noctis (yes, emo boy Noctis), went into training to learn moves and sample combos and just got better and better at combining moves and tactics the more I played. I even have a playlist on my channel of a bunch of random ranked sets and I see myself get better and better. The hard work does pay off when you start dominating your opponents and know what your opponent is gonna do. I have a bunch of clips stored on my PS4 of combos I did with different characters.
I’m a DC Comics fan that got into fighting games when Injustice was announced and bought SS4AE fairly cheap on the 360. Like the guy in the video, I’d had fighting games on my shelf and been a casual button masher. Injustice and AE made me dive deeper into the mechanics and I started to learn. My mind was blown by the depth. Before that, I’d never even heard the term ‘safe on block’. I was learning by watching RUclips videos and playing and always went back to SF over injustice. Now, fighting games are my favourite genre with SF being my favourite series. I try a lot of fighting games these days but always go back to SF. I’m not particularly great at them, but the progression I’ve made along the way has been the most rewarding experience I’ve had in gaming. I love fighting games.
That was such a great video! I've mostly played Tekken though my fighting games journey (which isn't anywhere near big). But as much as in any competitive game, I feel like I've actually evolved the most from losing. It is a very scary thought, but once you start to really analyse your replays you will almost feel yourself grow! "A failure is not a failure if you learn from it" is words to live by.
I think what makes this video so good is that most tutorials teach you how to get GOOD at fighting games, but this one is teaching you how to have FUN with fighting games.
I think that one of the most important aspects of fighting games is that it's almost everytime a 1v1 scenario, it's always a skill demonstration between two players but that's also what makes it scary, its facing that "maybe I'm not that good" moment
That's why a good single player mode is very important to not just fighting games but games in general. Gives the game more depth sure, but it also allows players that want to take a break from online, and yet, don't to stop playing, to switch it up.
There's a lot of stuff that's happened over the past ten years that I would have loved to get access to back when I played a (for me) ridiculous amount of fighting games, the whole Discord thing, ridiculously detailed resources that have only improved, better netcode, hell even knowing how to ask questions better, like "I know it's something I need to do, but what is practicing" and I can turn it into a more detailed question that isn't, as broad. Just haven't found my way back, and it's great to see videos like this and Alex Nostalgix's to help keep that old flame kindled, even if I struggle to get back in. Thanks for covering this.
As somebody who grew up with a lot of fighting games, one of my favorite parts always was unlocking alternate costumes for my favorite characters. Let's hope Alex eventually comes back to Tekken!
34:55 Max is right tho. back in arcade era, we don't have internet to search "how to deal with x character", frame data and stuff. When someone beat you up you just insert another coin and do a revenge match. Arcade players' learning process comes naturally by adapting in each time they lose, and that was a very rewarding moment.
my first tourney experience was in melee at about 9 years old, i didnt make it far on the bracket but did win a few matches against adults. I can remember the amount of satisfaction on winning a tournament match, it was probably the first time I felt like i was doing something that meant alot to me. I still have some friendships i made 15 years ago thanks to that experience. While not too involved in any fighting game community anymore, it is something id recommend to anyone to try if they are interested
What I liked most about this video was his chill and laidback demeanor, yet very encouraging and positive. The second thing was him addressing ladder and competitive anxiety, I struggle with that a lot but he had some very good advice.
My biggest tip is to ALWAYS rematch; especially if you're losing. I've only improved as much as I did because I kept rematching everyone over and over again. I loss to a perfect match... I rematch and adapt, this time dealing a bit more damage. Still lose. Rematch again, and this time I win a round. Lose the match. Rematch and get really close to winning. Rematch and eventually win. I've been on the opposite end of this too, and it's just as satisfying. It made me so happy to legit lose to someone who I've been rematching and wiping the floor with them. You can genuinely see the improvement in real time and we both got better for it.
To be fair, I really really love YT Polygon. They have video essays, videos of board games, and of course, videos of one of the most insane person to ever walk on earth. You know who.
I found your channel bc KI i remembered playing when i was a kid and now i need to know whats going with the franchise and found some of your video of you playing but then i discovered more of your videos, street legacy, akuma legacy and now tekken legacy and damn now i want to play fighting games and this video just proves that this and those channel are important to created interests :)
I think ease of controller input associated with characters matters as well. I’ve practiced shoryukens hundreds of times and I still will only input it right maybe 60% of the time 😂. I might wanna play a cool looking character, but if they have fdf input I’ll put that character to the back of my to-learn list
The beautiful part of fighting games is the improvement that you see happening as you slowly realise yourr getting better. A good fighting game make you feel like a dance or conversation between you and your opponent. Its honestly the best feeling to get outplayed and not be salty amd learn from it. Its like a unspoken conversation between you and your opponent.
I've always told myself that I love the idea of fighting games, probably my absolute favorite genre of games in theory, but the learning curve isn't a curve, its a fucking cliff and it is insanely daunting to tackle. I really started to get into the idea of actually playing fighting games when Project L was announced, as a veteran of League and someone who always liked the idea of fighting games, it has been in the back of my mind since their announcement. I absolutely love League's roster of characters, and can't wait to see how they are all translated into a fighting game. I'm a week or two into really trying to stick with fighting games, and I'm having a lot of fun so far, despite feeling like a toddler who can't even walk. Just recently starting actually playing online in strive after only labbing and playing w/ my friend. It was incredibly daunting, but I got over it and quickly realized that actually playing online against different people is not that bad. I suck so much, but I'd rather get that suck out of the way now and be ready to play at a decent level come Project L's release.
Ive played casually on and off since i was a 5 year old pushing buttons on mk2 on the SNES. Only in the last 2 or 3 years of really desiring to improve has lifted me out of "utter shit" to "slightly less shit" But god damn it has always been fun as fuck.
Try not to put too much pressure on yourself. Nobody became a skilled player overnight. It takes a lot of time and effort to play at the highest level. Even then, getting to that level probably isn't a healthy goal. I recommend focusing on trying to enjoy the learning process and accepting that losses are actually a good thing. Having the right mindset is what helps anybody become proficient in anything. Most importantly, don't forget to have fun!
I really like all of the subjects and points of discussion that naturally come up from videos like these such as matchmaking and how that immediately affects a newcomer and their initial enjoyment of the game.
I'm commenting on this super late, but I'm extremely happy to have found this video just before Street Fighter 6's release. The most "fighting" I've done in a fighting game is playing casual smash bros with friends. Never played MK, never played a previous Street Fighter, none of it. I'm super stoked to jump in to the fighting game scene and hopefully pick up a lot during my time. :)
Hows it going? Sf6 was my first street fighter too and I am in love. I am in deep now. I also ended up taking up third strike on fightcade as a result hahah
I am shocked (in a good way) at the sheer quality of this video from Polygon, of all places. I wrote an article for a gaming site many years ago, essentially covering all of the same points. Assuming the presenter also wrote this, it's very clear he truly loves fighting games.
Honestly a lot of what this guy said is so applicable to how I tried to get into fighting games, I have tried to get into the genre since SF4 with no luck, then onto Tekken 7 and despite hundreds of hours still didn’t click, I tried getting a stick and it still didn’t click. Then DBFZ came along and again despite loving Dragonball and especially Vegeta I still just couldn’t really get in. Eventually Strive dropped and I kinda cruised along playing Ky and basically only stuck with the game because friends still played but I still wasn’t motivated to lab or really learn. Then Baiken dropped and all of a sudden all those years clicked, I was labbing religiously, I was grinding out the tower and kept climbing, I started developing neutral and more advanced movement tech and eventually this month I finally reached celestial and oh boy I’m actually in love with the genre properly now!
So along with the XP meters, I feel like fighting games should give you achievements for losing to show that defeat is natural and that we learn from it. Have little descriptions like "You lost 10 battles. Your journey is just beginning!" all the way up to 1000 battles which could day "Take some time to see how much you've grown!"
Hey Max, thank you for sharing this video! I really needed to hear this! As a kid growing up in the late 80s and 90s I always gravitated to fighting games because of the simple fact that as soon as you turn the game on you can pick your characters and jump right into a match .. I don't mind certain RPGs but when I play a video game I want to play a video game, I just always loved fightings games and I'm very casual about it! I like the line that was dropped in this video about seeing some cool shit and wanting to press some buttons and make it happen! The simplicity of that concept! Because of this video I picked back up some games that I put down because I wanted to keep up with all of the "cool kids" so to speak .. fighting games that I felt everybody else was playing because I want to be apart of the conversations, I want to understand the lingo! But this video brought me back .. I've never played KOF until I heard you talk about it and now 15 is one of my favs .. I suck but that's ok! But I picked back up a game that I've actually won some casual matches in .. MK11! I just like that game! And I actually do like it better than MKX .. but I realize that it's ok! .. thank you again Max! I have been following you for a few years now! I have learned so much! Next year I might enter a tournament who knows! But thank you Max!
Max is the entire reason I've decided to get serious in learning Fighting Games with Tekken 8 now. I've always liked it, had Jin's shoulder tattoo for over 20 years now as my only one. But now I've invested in a fight stick (because I miss my old days of Arcade Tekken 3), and I'm dead set of learning fighting games through Tekken 8 with Jin and possibly Reina (Mishima fanboy). I'm so hyped and absolutely expecting to get my butt handed to me for weeks on end :p
Regarding the "Take a break" idea, I thought that was part of the purpose of adding mini-games. You could also probably add the option to give the player a CPU opponent to fight with easier AI for a bit, or give them a CPU opponent who's AI is tuned specifically to do more of the stuff that the player is losing to. AI personalities that prefer different kinds of movesets is a thing in DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 for the PS2 and Wii. There's a channel running a _DBZ League_ that runs tournaments with teams that are built by the players. It's like a 3 on 3 tag fighter with flying and arena combat. You can have AI vs AI matches, which means you can have people form teams to build a character and add equipment to them that will give them extra health and buff their defence, or you can turn them into melee powerhouses that have moves that give them more super armour, and you can choose different AI personalities that will trend the AI's choices to use certain tactics. I'm just saying, there are ways to have a "Surprise challenger!" pop up in other modes if the player is on a losing streak. Kind of like in Smash Bros where you could fight CPU characters after fulfilling certain conditions and unlock stuff if you beat them. Reward the players for playing.
I played a lot of fighting games as little kid with my siblings but fell off as I got older so there is always some nostalgia. Later in life I got really fascinated by eSports, the organizers side of it. As far as eSports goes I don't think any competitive games comes CLOSE to FGC tournaments. The 1v1 nature of it, the clash of personalities. I would love to get into that side of it.
A comment on "good internet connection": Most ISPs nowadays do marketing around the amount of bandwidth and data caps (if any) they offer, but for fighting games that doesn't mean shit. What you should be looking for instead is a common public lesser known metric known as latency (or ping). The good news is that internet speed tests already give you that metric. Just hop onto your favourite speed test (or google for one) and take note of your ping. Anything below 50 ms is good for fighting games, and if you are in single digits it's as good as you can ever ask. Another way to shop around for better internet for online fighting gaming play is to check the technology they are using. If you have access to fiber cable internet in your area, absolutely go for it. DSL and Coaxial can be ok or very iffy depending on how old the infrastructure and actual cables are. If you are on satellite or dial up, forget it. You'd have more luck moving out.
Ping isn't really influenced by your ISP the way you think it is. If your ISP isn't stable then yeah, your ping will be shit. Ping is mostly affected by distance. Ping is mostly a mesure of the time packets take to get somewhere and back to you. They farther the game servers are the shittier your ping is.
@@alexandrebelair4360 there are shitty ISPs, especially on older tech like DSL or cable, that can introduce significant ping just from your connection. Another factor is jitter (basically variance of latency). And that's the major factor why wireless sucks. Its hard to get a good connection when your ping varies from 40-80ms with spikes of 200+ms, even if on average its 50ms. That said, I agree if you have a good fiber optic connection, the ping from your own connection should be below 1ms. And then its a matter of distance.
@@alexandrebelair4360 Once you are in the double digits of ms latency, ping can be *very* ISP influenced (but mostly who knows) by the kind of equipment they use. In reality, while ping is indeed affected by distance mostly, it isn't the only factor. What kind of routers do they use? Does the traffic stay in fiber optics most of the time or does it go through cables or antennas at some point? How do they handle high-traffic hours? Are their firewall systems configured correctly? Are they using Carrier-Grade NAT and if so, how powerful are their servers? Are they allowed to use third party nodes so they can save on network traversal hops? At which point are they connected to the internet backbone? It's not trivial; the internet is more complex than what people think it is, but I didn't want to overwhelm people with that much technical details. Honestly, the number of variables that affect ping in high performance networks is so great that the only reliable way to test it is to actually measure it on the field once a connection has been deployed. This is what ISPs technicians and engineers do all day for work: tweaking and testing, sometimes upgrading when times are exciting. That's why I rather recommend to run a speed test rather than just judge it by the advertised Mbps, and pay attention to that metric. Run the test against the closest CDN (usually in your city or a nearby one), against the US coasts, UK and South Korea to get an idea of how it might actually perform, at least from your side. For fighting games with rollback netcode double digits is good. If during a matchup in-game the other side gets an awful +100ms ping connection to your fastest nodes that's not on you.
When I think of making a fighting game more accessible to newer players, I immediately think of the MK11 tutorials. The fact that in addition to demonstrating the move/technique/string visually and what it should look like they show you the button presses and most importantly, there is a little click when each input is pressed so not only do you have the visual you have the audio of the input too in order to aid you getting your timing right. It sounds daft but the addition of that click helped me process what I needed to do to get the rhythms without dumbing down what it is I was trying to do. Whenever I’m trying to learn combos, if I can catch the sound and rhythm of the combo button inputs I can replicate it a lot easier than just seeing the instructions for it and that makes practicing so much less frustrating and builds confidence so much faster.
When I started picking up fighting games, I thought it was all about trying to do the combos. But now I realize that’s not always the case. I’ve learned so much about fighting games through Maximilian. One thing I learned is that fighting a human player is much different from fighting the computer or learning combos on RUclips. From my experience, most human players aren’t going to do those crazy combos that you see on RUclips. I’m sure some can, but it’s extremely difficult when playing someone on the same skill level as you. So I started to learn that it wasn’t just about the combos but it’s just the counters and knowing when and how to block at the right time.
I started playing Killer Instinct Online for the first time completely prepared to be able to lose but to have fun, I caught Dinossaur and the matchmaking threw me against a player Too good but even losing I kept giving Rematch and he kept accepting it, my girlfriend was on my side counting how many times we rematch. after 46 games in a row I won the first and the Pro Player on the other side started to get mad and soon after I won the second and he gave up. Then I went to play more and future matches started to get more easy and more challenging against better players who underestimated me for my Level and Rank My girlfriend turned to me and said "That was funny, that guy only learned nothig just by winning games and you only learned by losing. You know what? Now I want to play! Get that cool Skeleton!"
I'm glad you mentioned reward for participating because I always thought this was a huge issue that not many people seem to acknowledge. There should absolutely be some sort of reward for simply participating in a match. Whether it's currency to unlock cosmetics, EXP toward leveling up some overall character rank that unlocks whatever or simply just acts as a "tracker" of sorts for your "total time played" on that character. I know in this day and age "participation trophies" or whatever are super frowned upon and all that, but losing sucks and it's made even worse when I feel like my time spent hasn't amounted to anything. Winning should absolutely reward MORE of whatever, but I agree that there definitely needs to be some sort of participation reward even if it's minor.
For me and my experience starting with fighting games(I just play strive right now) it was the music. LittleVmills did a cover of find your one way and I wanted MORE of whatever the fuck that was. And then I heard The roar of the spark. The video I found had some cool Ky combos in the background and hey cool sword character who using lighting... so $60 and a couple hours learning how to play and I was in love. I still have yet to reach celestial floor but just having fun sets and doing cool shit with the roar of the spark playing is easily in my top 3 gaming experiences. The others being Playing Zelda twilight princess as a kid and beating the nameless king in dark souls 3 for the first time. I also play Leo if I want to turn my brain off real quick.
There isn't much in this video that hasn't been said or explored by content creators within the FGC, be it you, Core A Gaming, Sajam, or even a couple of shitty videos that I've made that have no views. What sets a video like this apart, though, is it comes from the perspective of somebody who who is new due to the general and community. This is a video about what they learned during their journey in the modern era of the FGC. Kind of a "By Beginners, For Beginners". That's valuable.
I don't play fighting games and I spent 47 mins absolutely entertained by the video and Max's thoughts. He definitely envisions so much potential for fighting games. Liked the argument about Multiversus and the exp. People drop them because they don't get meaningful rewards when losing.
The thing about tangible rewards: I so agree. I miss when I was a kid and I played fighting games that gave you new characters, new costumes, endings, etc. Now everything is behind a pay wall or loot box situation that makes the grind for such content even worse. I miss busting my ass to beat Gado and Shen Long so that I can unlock them, or playing through the roster of MvC 1 to unlock alternate versions of characters. It helped give me motivation to try out multiple characters and then, in my own, I learned the "feel" of a game, to know that this game as a whole requires more offense, more defense, a reliance on super moves, a reliance in combos, etc
*My way of getting started in a new fighting game like a DNF Duel, I choose my favorite character or one that really catches my eye and jump into Training Mode for a while and get handle of it and then do the all Single Player Content.* Also my favorite characters are usually the OP, sexy, edgy or badass ones and for Polygon, this video speaks SO WELL with me too..
This video with your commentary is the exact organic path I took BACK into fighting gaming - I grew up with street fighter/MK/Killer Instinct but was never good enough to battle it out in the arcade. Never had the funds to play it at home for long periods of time either - pandemic reopened my love of Street Fighter but also just…gaming. I’ve learned more about gaming in the last 18 months than I did in the last 18 years!
I’m actually watching this video because of the Polygon video. Patrick’s video already gave me great motivation to try fighting games, but it’s really nice to know that there’s a community of people like Max who share Patrick’s opinions on enjoying the game. What you said about needing some sort of battle pass or exp is really nice-while I wish that mere love of gaining new knowledge by being smushed by a better player was enough motivation, sometimes I’m only human, and I’d like to see a number go up. Sometimes I should “git gud”, and sometimes you’re absolutely right-the game/genre needs to do SOMETHING.
The thing about taking a break is crazy. I'll stop playing tekken for months but my wave dashing and kbd is a little smoother the next time I play. Same with dbfz. My movement is just better. And as a casual that's burnt out from toxicity in games(I used to play cod and overwatch) I just want to play fighting games with friends and chill people. Randos give me crazy anxiety even if I'm the one kicking their asses
One thing i miss so much about Injusfice 2 was the cosmetic system. Being able to really make your character YOURS. The fact that these games give you no progression besides some banners and the odd skin or color here or there i think massively hurts the genre. I think thats a big component as to why For Honor still has a pretty decent and dedicated fanbase (even though i didnt like playing after the CCU update.) People enjoy making their characters your own, skins can be fun, but it loses its luster when you run into the 2000th player running the exact same look. Its something thats so underutilized in the fighting genre and i think itd be so incredibly beneficial
I mostly chose my characters in games based on how popular the character was. I would intentionally pick a character that was rarely used just so when I win, no-one can pull the 'cheap character' defence. There are exceptions to this. For example I like character that just don't typically look like a fighter. I picked up May in Guilty Gear because she just looked like a little girl cosplaying as a pirate and an oversized anchor. That said even with me there are exceptions. I freaking love Bison in any Street Fighter he is in and Hugo in 3S was just too huge and comical not to try out.
In tekken it would still be called cheap lol. Not popular characters have a lot of flowcharts that few people know how to deal, so they turn into a nightmare. A guy winning a world tour wih Panda is a example. No one lab that character, then a guy expert in that character appeared and kicked everyone ass, but he can't do that again because ppl now lab his character.
@@axellyann5085 Well if no-one knew that character that is their problem not his. I don't see the cheapness there. There is a difference between a character that you are not used to and a character that has a move or some kind of check for everything. And also if he is a pro with the character that doesn't automatically mean he will be trash next time. There are usually a handful of OP character and the rest are all perfectly usable. The difference is very minor between each pro.
I'm getting interested in Street Fighter for the first time because of the changes made in SF6. I hate in fighting games where it becomes a spam fest of the same moves and such, but in street fighter 6 with the burnout meter it seems really interesting
if someone's doing the same move over and over again, that's good for you. Figure out how to counter it and that's free damage for you every time they spam it. Block, and punish. If it's a fireball, jump over it. If someone's whacking you out of the sky over and over, just walk forward slowly and block any moves while inching forward, so you can hit them in the face.
I grew up with SF2 in arcades. There was an array of characters from the start. Each varied in their fighting style/ discipline. They had several moves, but once you mastered their moveset, you could get thru the game with enough patience. Eventually the super bar came into play, opening up the use of special moves. Original SF2 is basic, Super Turbo is its final form. In the Alpha series (set before 2) it branched out with the ISM system in 3. X, A, and V. Each one offered unique abilities for every fighter. From a maxed out super, to extra guard, or custom combo, to boosting the capabilities of a special moves (which could vary on use of its power level) SF3 (set way after 2 )went back to basics, while utilizing EX moves, and parrying. Super moves varied by choice, with EX moves being powered up variations of attacks. Parrying if timed correctly, can also charge your super meter. Throughout the 3 series: New Generation, Second Impact: Giant Attack, and Third Strike (this being the complete entry) Third Strike is the entry that redefines SF3. From mastery, to movesets, balance, and so much more. SF4: ( both IV and V are set after SF2, but before 3) From original to Ultra. It breaks up EX moves, giving you more options. Ultra however is faster, but contains tons of characters to play. Super moves, to Ultra differ by power level. There is also a new cancel move, which is helpful. But its up to your play style. V: original to Champion Edition. A smaller roster compared to Ultra SFIV. There are two meters: The V trigger system uses special moves, or custom combo as an option. But you have limited use of moves due to a timed meter. Your Super can max out, but it takes some time. Similar to SF3 + IV, you can choose which super as a finisher. Btw SFIV and V offer useful tutorial guides for every character. Try it out to learn moves, specials, and combos. V also offers varied movesets as challenges, definitely worth trying out. Most of all, find the character you love to play. Try and experiment with those you are not familiar with. Build a rhythm. Enjoy
@@aramondehasashi3324 it is definitely a given, plus the options as well. Original or modern. One may be full control, the other may have alternate options
New fighting game player here. Street Fighter 6 may be the savior the fighting game community needed. The marketing piqued my interest and I appreciate the effort put in to making the game newbie-friendly and inviting so much that I found myself sold on it. I have a feeling I'm not the only one, and I'm excited to see what all this is about.
This is basically 47 minutes of Max finding a new bromance. It's amazing.
Worth every minute of it
Would love a collab between the two!
Cant wait to see these guys exchange tips for hair product.
"This guy gets it!" gave me a good laugh. Most wholesome video reaction
right, this was so wholesome.
Some of the best matches I've had were against stronger opponents. Spent an hour fighting one guy on T7 using King, he was up like 40-15 but he kept accepting the rematch because he saw that I was learning little by little. The more I kept adjusting, the more he started pulling off advanced moves
This is like... genuinely touching, I love it
wish i got opponents like this. usually they leave after the first match :c when it's a game im learning
@@sonic-bb Part of the cringe in fighting games, they spam leave after they win
Some of the friendlier fgc players I've met have been on T7, the rematch feature in that game is perfect for it
I have also met some of the nastiest people I've met have been on there too
i was doing player matches in tekken and my Mighty ruler asuka came face to face with a Tekken god Akuma... he destroyed me, send me a friend request on steam and asked me if i wanted to learn what to do against Akuma. we've been having casual matches every now and then and i learned a lot. i really like this aspect of the fighting game community
Pat Gill does consistently good work, the dude's videos are really thoughtful and well structured
Yea Pat Gill and BDG carried Polygon for the past couple of years and now the channel itself has the best content by far out of all the game journalist channels
Yeah, Pat and the video team always crush it. Need more of their energy in the industry, I think
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat Too bad Brian left :/
hey i recognize you from the rtvs tf2 server lol
@@viaxon6 Nah, it's a great thing for Brian. He didn't want to have his own brand be associated with gaming anymore and wanted to explore weirder ventures and his content has improved a ton because of it.
When I got sober and needed a new hobby, I chose fighting games. They honestly helped save my life , including this channel. It's been one of the funnest journeys of my life and a way to stick thru the hard times. I'm about to hit gold with Chun Li this weekend, then the world is mine 💪
My best friend used to spend time in and out of rehab. He leaned on fighting games too. I used to be more or less a casual only playing Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter mostly. But whenever he would get out, we would play a bunch of fighting games. He would tell me about some I need to get into and got me heavily into the genre.
He lost the fight earlier this year and playing fighting games aren’t quite the same. But I’ve made it a point to seek out and purchase the games he would mention over the years.
Reading your comment made me think of him. Stay strong brotha
> hit gold with Chun Li this weekend, then the world is mine
I guess you will have become...
the World Warrior.
Thank you, I have been here since the late '80s and I'll be here all week.
Nice
Funny, fighting games got me drinking more.
@@CYB3R2K perfectly balanced, as all things should be
I know the general opinion on major gaming publications has soured over the years. But I think the RUclips side of polygon has always been very solid, even without Brian.
honestly it's mainly due to reactionary shit from the horror show of gamergate combined with "games journalists suck at games" memeification
@@Sablus Go back to Resetera and leave the FGC alone, please.
And regarding OP, I'm not all too familiar with Polygon's video work but I wouldn't be surprised if it's all superior to the garbage they fill their website with. It'd be the same as Vice whose "news" pieces are a laughing stock of the internet while their documentary work is legendary for its quality.
Nah , there's always good and bad but people decides to focus on the bad
@@hppvitor we aren't in 2016 anymore, gamergate is over chill tf out
I remember as a kid my dad got me into fighting games my first game was SNES KI, so much so that he took me to a local tournament in Mexico and I won. The amount of satisfaction I got moving up the brackets when people were just saying “He’s just a kid” was a feeling like no other. Fighting games just have a way of bringing people together and that’s such an amazing thing.
Wow what a nice story.
That's so cool , thanks for sharing
haha reminds me of a trip to PR. Rocking people at a local arcade while playing Tekken 3 Tag. After what felt like forever I got DeStRoYeD by a chick and the arcade group went wild. Amazing feeling like yours :)
"he's just a kid"
I expect kids to be better than most adults because they have easy more friggin time to practice.
I haven't read anything on Polygon for a long time but Patrick Gill's vids are always thoughtful and fun to watch.
Their video dept is miles bettet than the news site
Pat is a God king
Love pat. He's super chill
That man is honestly the shining star of polygon content. I subbed to his own channel after seeing only one of his vids on polygon
The most casually, humbly iconic of all gaming news personalities
I’m reminded of a quote that was on of the best pieces of advice I got regarding fighting games.
“You have to earn a collection of L’s yourself before you can start handing them out to others”
I always tell myself to love taking L's (Lessons on how to improve in fighting games). Helps to take the sting outta losing and to savior the small victories
you gotta get washed before you can be clean
Having taken up Muay Thai some years back, it made me reflect on the "I can't seem to read people's movement/how to pick up on habits" comment. I felt the same way starting out in Muay Thai. We were taught how to slip jabs and crosses or how to roll under a hook. At first it was hard picking up on when to do certain movements but the more I fought and trained, it became easier. Every opponent was different so the challenge was learning their method of combat, looking for weaknesses or entry points and developing a plan.
It's literally the same way in fighting games. The crazy part as well is when you actually do start learning martial arts, you start looking at and playing fighting games different. Not just running in, using feints, jabbing or "footsies" as it's referred to in fighting games. The jab is one of the most important tools in a fight. It's not just about flashy combos.
It literally all just comes down to train and get better. Don't be afraid to lose. NO ONE goes into a fight without experience being a badass and there will always be someone better than you at something. Just keep fighting and better yourself.
The difference is that Muay Thai has actually good matchmaking lmao
Weird as well since I was considering taking up Muay Thai very recently and this has just cemented my decision
Fellow FGC/combat sports enthusiast!!
Cool comment!
@@dcard228And input delay is completely nonexistent!
Personally I think we need a very strong single player presence in fighting games again. When I talk to friends and family I used to play fighting games with all the time, we look back and talk about things like MKA's mario kart mode or Deceptions tetris fighter, chess combat, konquest mode, etc sometimes more fondly than the games core fighting. Tekken had things like devil within, all the arcade ending cutscenes, tekken ball, tekken force. Street fighter alpha 3 had that tour mode and optional final boss esque bison fight tile. If you got frustrated with the core game you could do other things while you simmer down and I really miss that.
This man spits facts right here. Multiplayer, ranked, lobbies, SF V dropped without Story mode at all, wtf ? They forget about old games with great single modes and stuff ? Damn
This is true, Like they can develop whole other games yet for fighters now it's worse than arcades. Since back then there were all sorts of limits, not there aren't any and now games feel emptier.
@@ExeErdna empty is a good word to describe it. It's like they developed the minimal viable product which is the games multiplayer and maybe single player then buh bye enjoy the game
Darkstalkers intensifies
Oh good God this is true. My favourite street fighter is Alpha 3, and I've put so many hours into the world mission mode or whatever it's called. I love playing Cammy and Rolento with maxed out attack and lowered defenses, and having to switch up your ism for different missions and figure out the best way to overcome different challenges you aren't getting on multiplayer is so much fun when you just wanna get drunk at 2am and play around in single player.
I remember my brother picking me up from school and taking me to a little shop that had an arcade hosting MvC. I recall seeing the colours flashing, seeing all these characters bouncing around doing things I thought were cool, and just being blown away. I was afraid to try at the time because this was still when gaming was seen as a guy thing, but when I slid the first quarter in and got my ass handed to me, I knew this was a genre I wanted to invest in. I may not be the best, but I still feel as ecstatic as I did as a child when I push buttons and see my characters do some cool shit.
MvC was my first traditional FG as well. A great entry point if there ever was one!
Letting gaming slant towards being a "guy thing" must be the greatest failure of the gaming industry...not just economically but for all the players that could have had a good time with it.
i got lucky that my mom liked videogames when i was growing up, so even if none of my girl friends played them, it still didnt feel like a guys thing to me
she used to take me to the local arcades with her best friend when i was a baby, then she worked at a videogame store and took me with her when no one could take care of me, and from that job she got herself a ps2 with mvc2, and she really wanted me to learn that game
her "teaching" was just her beating me up relentlessly (in-game thankfully) while telling me what to do, and maaaybe letting me win if i was getting sad, but now i treasure those times with her so much!
(btw the characters that made me not quit my mom's training were hayato and morrigan, i thought they were the coolest :>)
@@AlynRapi Hayato is still one of the coolest Capcom characters, and it's a tragedy that he wasn't brought back in MvC3 or MvCI.
If we eventually get an MvC4(?) or a CvS3, Hayato HAS to come back.
(Also, if anyone reading this hasn't seen Star Gladiator 2/Plasma Sword, do it RIGHT NOW. It's awesome!)
@@BknMoonStudios The fact Captain Commando ("The Capcom Universes most powerful superhero") was NOT put into MVC3 (a game about superheroes) and instead replaced by C Viper is so moronically stupid.
Hayato's cool, Star Gladiator is a fun franchise. I also like how you can turn into Black Hayato even if it's just for one move.
That Polygon video (and Max's comments) on fighting games somehow helped me deal with some issues that are very, very far from being fighting game-related.
Didn't expect that, but I'm glad it happened. Thnx.
It happens, man. Sometimes things hit you in a way that you never expect. Glad you're doing better.
The same reason people play chess or war games like shogi/Go is because they’re good for the mind body soul connection of the mind and it’s efforts
That bit about self worth really got to me, I do it with games sometimes, but in general we often tie our worth to things we don't have a lot of, or any, control over. It's good to spot when we're just beating ourselves up and distance ourselves from the cause.
You forgot the most important part to footsies.
Shouting "FOOTSIES!" every time you whiff punish.
33:47 Honestly the character levels for Guilty Gear Strive are a part of the reason it's probably the first fighting game I've really played the online for regularly and seriously. Even when I lose, I might still get a level up which will give me credits which I can use to go fishing for digital figure mode items. Also, Digital figure mode is a really nice way to cool down after some bad matches, so it's nice to have that kinda thing in a fighting game.
I think this is the most important part by a long shot, that a lot of people in the discussion are missing.
Fighting games need to start being about more than just fighting in terms of gameplay. People need breaks when playing these games, both to cool down and to hone their muscle memory. Back in the day you'd have gone to another arcade machine and came back later, but that's not how we play games nowadays, and fighting games havn't really adapted to that.
If someone is gonna take a break from your game and go play something else, with how much games vie for your attention nowadays, this can be a critical drop point for many people. Giving people the ability to spend time doing something other than fighting within your game, even if just as a short pastime, can do wonders for retaining players.
@@DatBisa I feel like that’s the main reason why mk 11 was so successful because it’s not just about the fighting all the time, there’s the krypt which gives you a way to unwind after some games by unlocking new items and the fact that it also has a customization mode where you can unlock cosmetics for your characters which allows you to express yourself through the characters you play, hell even the variation system in mk 11 works great since you can make your own variations for characters, then the story is also there for if you don’t want to play online, overall I just think nrs has been doing great in terms of giving players options with all the content their games have regardless of how you feel about nrs games love em or hate em they’re doing something right.
Its part of what makes Smash work I think, especially from Melee, of having options that aren't bashing your head on another player, stuff like Adventure and Bonus Stage modes and Figures or the like where the game just lets you fuck about
Yeah smash bros brawl got way more play than melee for me back in the day cause there was more bullshit to find while playing
They just did so much stuff right with this game. So much so that it became the game i compare every other game to personnally
I kinda love that this mentality of keep going, fight stronger opponents, and get stronger alongside them is the driving mindset of fighting game's most iconic character, Ryu
Ryu’s “no worries, I just need to get stronger” mentality is definitely a reflection of how capcom wanted you to play their competitive games imo
Patrick Gill rules. Him and Brian David Gilbert were really the main reasons I watched Polygon
14:35 I've found out with a fight stick I can actually perform moves that require you to go from back to forward or down to up. I could never for the life of me actually perform any move like that on a regular controller. I can actually play Leo Whitefang and Charlotta now, and it makes me so happy.
I felt VERY uncomfortable with fighting games and I still only dabble in a certain few. I watched a video of Max's a few years back for the first time and I immediately gravitated toward him. He's super knowledgable and clearly has a love for the genre. I feel that transferred to myself and I was able to try new things in fighting games I otherwise wouldn't have understood as in depth as he can explain. Due to this I was able to enjoy and find the pull that fighting games can have.
Can definitely confirm, PLAY WHAT YOU THINK LOOKS COOL / LOOKS FUN. You are immensely more likely to actually learn the game's mechanics and enjoy your time in it far more.
To this day I credit Max and will always credit him and his influence he had on me. Use the 'tutorial' educational videos he and others have made.
Thank you Max! ❤️
"Find whatever gives you the spark" So true. I played FighterZ, BlazBlue and probably a few others I can't remember. I know I felt something but when I played the SF6 closed beta.... I went CRAZY for a few minutes. The rush and excitement of discovering combos and learning peoples play styles was such a new feeling and overcoming your enemies was so amazing. It made me so hype for when the game comes out that I really really REALLY want to try and be a good player and it's made me excited to check out Tekken 8 when that comes out.
I'm not going to lie, outside of some minor arcade play over the years, I almost never play games against humans any more. This video and listening to the both of you might get me to go back into things and give it a try again.
On point 8 I couldn't agree more. I remember in Strive there was this one Sol player in the public lobbies who I kept playing with and losing. Eventually I was able to take a round, then a match. And then I won 3 matches in a row. It felt rewarding to actually feel the game click, and understand that character more
It feels GREAT to learn. Me and a Millia player went back and forth for 30 matches straight, with no voice chat, learning strats and picking up on what works. We were both getting better. It’s SO much better, than when some rando takes his one win and leaves
This is the best thing ever. I've been getting into T7 lately as a bit of a noob, was playing set after set losing every round - but then I started slowly catching onto his habits, until I somehow got a round! I still lost the game, but I felt accomplished either way.
@@starfire4302 long sets are fun for that. Once you get used to each other you can literally see their brain working trying to find new ways to penetrate your defense.. and so can they. The best sets ive ever had were long sets.
fax
You can clearly tell this guy knows his stuff... seeing Max basically agreeing and expanding on his points is proof enough
I appreciate how more major gaming news sites are hiring people who are knowledgeable about fighting games.
Polygon video is miles better than the site news
Polygon video is miles better than the site news
Polygon video is miles better than the site news
Polygon video is miles better than the site news
Pat's worked at Polygon for like 6 years now.
This video came like a gift from the gods for me; these all have been questions I’ve been trying to find honest answers too about starting in fighting games. Love it, thanks Max and Polygon!
Man this hits hard. Just started my fighting game Journey. Ain't goin to lie it's been tough but.. love the process. 🙌🏿
Just keep fighting. You know where the answer lies.
@@AlriikRidesAgain In the heart of battle.
@@AlriikRidesAgain noice!!
24:25 is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been struggling so much to identify hit confirms and pull out the combos I've mastered in training. It's really good to hear that inputting the combo after a hit confirm is just really hard, and it's not something that should be coming easy.
Totally agree felt great finally hitting a combo in practice thought I could then bring that into a real match but still working on that 😂
25:41 Glad max said this because it's another important piece of advice to mention. There will be those who never be able to figure out how to get better at fighting games because the mental capacity for what is needed just isn't there for some people. That doesn't mean you're less of person or that something is wrong with you, some things are just what they are. So, it's best to keep playing what you enjoy and are good at playing.
@CriticalErr0r but are you having fun? They’re games, after all
@CriticalErr0r It's not your fault though. I hope you do know that. For some of us, it's just like that. I'm the same way with fighting games and i've been playing them for the same amount of years.
@CriticalErr0r For sure, man. You're definitely not alone in that sentiment. Fighting games are fun, they're just hard to master for some of us.
I wouldn’t say “mental capacity” though that may indeed be what it is. It just has a “hey stupid” connotation that goes with it. Personally I might say reflexes or reactions or hand eye coordination and there are definitely differences in what you are born with and can muster. As an example I’m pretty decent at fighting games but now I’m in my mid 40’s and the reflexes just aren’t what they used to be. I’m VERY good at certain aspects of fighting games but very bad at others. Button muscle memory is one of the things that I’m very bad at. I’ll know what the buttons of a game do, perfectly… but because the game/character is different from the one I grew accustomed to, I’ll have muscle memory from that character or game leak into my gameplay and disrupt my ability to quickly learn combos, even tho the combo may technically be very easy for me. Then I know players that can master and learn the combos of multiple characters in less than a week, even on new games. Those people just have very good button muscle memory so they can easily learn completely new things. I’d put it like this:
Learning a new song once you’ve mastered an instrument will take time, but some people will simply be able to do it much quicker than others, even if they play all the same songs at a the same current level.
@@dimex3362 I hope people don't believe that it means that they're stupid, because that's not it. The whole mental capacity statement can be put into the same concept something like eyesight. Some people are just born with naturally better eyesight than others. No one is really at fault because of it, that's just the way it is.
I feel like this is almost a good guide for getting into any game genre. For me I've always been infatuated with fps games, I could (and for the most part do) just sit and only play csgo for the rest of my life. Even if its the same maps and the same mechanics forever, something about it feels so pure. I've also been interested in fighting games and have been watching Max for years, but I never have the urge to fully get into the games. Those games are so humbling to play cause I am just awful at them and its crazy cause every player you ever play is just a god and hits all the combos.
not even just games, but a good guide to any sort of 'hobby' or area of art
for one reason or another, we've brought up an entire generation (or two) believing that "communities" are impenetrable and need to be easily accessible, the gates and rites of passage set aside despite being the most important part(s)
your own effort and approach will always dictate your experience in any area of art and entertainment (arguably in any area of life)
I'm in your same position, and since i dont have a powerfull pc right now, i can't play many fps games,. Due to this i'm trying to hype myself and get into a fighting game.
I truly liked this video and felt identified bt your comment, so i will let you know of my progress as a fellow cs enthusiast.
Learning fighting games was truly a "Journey" in every sense of the word. It took months before I felt comfortable and thought I could hold my own online, and not even be good just feel that I was competent.
As a noob I can tell you, there are days I'll be super motivated to learn and practice. Especially after watching some sick videos. But after 2 hours of getting smashed it really kills the drive. So now I only play fighting games with my friends since we all suck and I might actually pull off a 10 hit combo (love steve fox btw) lol
If you're having shitty games, just call it a day and move on, tomorrow's another day and another chance to get blasted.
When I'm playing fighting games in general I have a general rule Ive placed on myself "If I lose 5 games I'll take a break and watch some replays." and ngl it helped me a lot in improving. Also spending 12 hours in training mode on new games :P
When I got into Tekken I got destroyed online but what helped me get through it was a rule I made where I'd keep pressing Rematch until i won at least one match. That turned these overwhelmingly difficult opponents into boss fights and when I did manage to win once, I'd take a break.
THIS. Fuck this AI Bots FGC Ranked Learning Not Fun Curve, just play game and have a blast. True shit right here.
@@edmaldonado8207 I’ve never thought of it this way, I’ll keep this in mind. Like The other really high lvl player is just an insane bot
Man, i can’t believe i’ve been playing since covid, and all that time- i got so lucky with what i chose to pick to first play and get interested in. I found gg xrd to be the cool game i wanted to play but found too hard- but mbccaa/melty is the moment it all clicked for me. As a relatively new player, i’ve gotta say-
PUT SPECIAL ATTACK MOTION INPUTS ON THE SCREEN AGAIN or the option to (like the recent MK that allows you to pick moves you want to use on a list and keep on screen)
This i think was the life-saver for me that was the tedious part of learning moves. Being on the screen helped me organize and learn what moves could go next to what, then finally chaining them all together.
Another would be to have more simpler move list ui, looking at you SFV with your 5 pages each just listing 2 moves.
Anyways, after all that GG:Strive released and the rest was history.
mbac was my first fighting game that really stuck with me and made sense.
@@pennyisdreadful why was it for you? To me i think the anime fighting game genre sold it, due to how easily readable the moves were and the movement options compared to Tekken and SF- maybe that was personal but boy did it work.
Have you checked out granblue yet? It’s got the move display you were talking about and a nice spread on the roster
That SF move list format is nauseating to say the least. I don't know what inspired them.
MK11 command list tag feature really helped my friends wife actually be able to play with us (a little). Obviously it didn't turn her into a pro immediately and she still literally always forgot to block but it was a stepping stone. No idea what to do but if I press the buttons in this order my character does some cool shit and that was good enough for her to play with us
"I'm so serious about this. You need to follow your heart"
I've seen him for 4 minutes and I already love him.
Pat Gill is absolute gold! I suggest looking for more of his videos, they're all like this (The Monster Hunter one is very similar). Seeing him with Brian David Gilbert was always comedy gold
@@marcosm1223 the new CoD one is also very chill
I still remember Max's Assist me videos. I cannot believe I have been watching you for a decade. Thank you for all of your content over the years and man I credit you for getting me into fighting games. UMVC3!
34:00
I totally am with Max on this one. Honestly, rewarding somebody even though its only EXP to progress a sort of "Reward" system is something to keep players engaged. Like give us some sort of battlepass-like system, of course I'm not suggesting we buy battlepasses but give us some sort of system like this one that rewards possibly, skins for the characters that can only be obtainable at a certain period of time or something like that. Im not a video game designer or anything but this IMO is a positive change.
Something like that will be better in the long run, to reduce people's salt from losing, cuz let's be honest no one likes to lose on a 1v1 fighting game. If you have some sort of exp system, we have some sort of an end-game to chase even though we are losing our games and keep the players motivated to keep playing.
And this is why I like Brawlhalla and Multiversus. Because they do that.
Huge agreed, for me personally, even though I try to adhere to the "play for fun, not to win" mindspace as much as possible, whenever I reach a point in online where whatever ELO system they use starts going DOWN, it completely takes the wind out of my sails. Why play when it causes me to actively lose something, as meaningless as it might be? It makes my brain go "the only winning move is not to play", having some kind of secondary "For Fun" reward that you get just for playing the game regardless of win or lose is something more fighting games NEED to retain players.
You can blame Lil Majin for getting me into King and Tekken both, haha. Pretty similar experience to the presenter's, I was pretty new to fighting games, and entirely new to Tekken so the King experience was difficult. But I loved the character, loved the wrestling moves and stuck with it. And Tekken's complexity was what fascinated me about the game. And I felt that sense of accomplishment from learning more advanced techniques and developing game knowledge. The inconsistent netcode and other issues turned me off from playing the game a while ago, but man when Tekken is good it is one of the best games out there. Played a few other fighting games since then as well, even had the pleasure of playing a few classic titles.
The biggest problem with practicing combos is when you get into the mindset to just look for an opening to land your combo. I've lost a lot of matches because I wasn't really fighting the guy, I was just looking for different openings to do things I was practicing...
Yeah i hate that happens, and it happens a lot. Or when i am focusing on punishing a certain move and forget about everything else.
I really hope SF6 is finally *that game* for me to get into deep. It's difficult to get into a FG that doesn't nail everything without just deciding that it's not worth it when I could be playing another grenre with more variety instead.
Check the announced character list for SF6 and practice on SFV :D It's on sale really cheap rn and you'll get a big headstart if you learn the basics now; They'll translate over to SF6
Did it work?
@@pickledblowfish6178 Kind of. Depends on how my irl friends are with keeping consistent fight nights. Loads of fun when we do.
@@EtherealMoon the homies can carry this hobby for a decade. God speed, sir. 🫡
Max's tangent here at 25:24 is so eloquently well spoken that you can apply this to anything in life
I love this video and this guy and he did a really good job detailing a version of the process
he also made all of the breath of the wild cooking video where he cooked all the meals in breath of the wild..... in 3 hours.
@@metametang7628 different person dude
@@metametang7628 yeah that was Brian David Gilbert, this is Patrick Gill, although i wouldn't be surprised if Pat filmed it he does that sometimes
@@slamindorf5478 lame
@@metametang7628 not lame, if you have no experienced Brian David Gilbert and his stuff for polygon, please absolutely go look it all up, it's the best stuff they've ever put out
I got "more" into fighting games when I found out a friend of mine was REALLY good at them. He wrote guides for a major company and showed me what it was all about. Fight sticks aren't necessarily needed but very useful if you grew up in an arcade. He has now moved on to the HitBox, but I'm still keeping to stick. Looking for a Series S stick now
MK1/MK2/SF2 got me into fighters when I was a third grader. I forget that these games are technically hard. To me, they feel like playing a musical instrument.
Amen
Some people just don't have the hand-eye coordination to understand fg's, just like musical instruments
I mean playing an instrument ain't easy especially at a decent level
@@princemwamba5230 honestly, the concept of playing an instrument is super easy to understand once you have a general grasp on music structure, but it's a matter of taking that understanding and actually applying it to the instrument, just like combos in fg's
@@OddWolf666 true but that can go for fighting games to though the concept is easy to grasp it's putting it into play that changes things
I'm kind of jazzed up on fighting games all over again with this. It was so validating to follow this video and trace the journey I've taken to be as good as I am. It gives me faith that I can go even higher, even when it feels like I've plateaued, and it makes me think my aspirations aren't impossible to reach. Good on Polygon, and good on you, Max.
Just got a PS5 and a few fighting games a few days ago. This is the first time back on fighting games since MVC2 on the PS2. Seeing the original video and Max's reaction to it is very heartening to hear. I'm pretty excited about resuming this journey.
here because I'm starting my fighting game journey soon, Max's videos have been super helpful for a newbie who knows almost nothing but just the name of a couple of characters ❤
I get the same feeling from playing ukulele, programming, or playing flight sims or skateboarding. It's the really intricate technical stuff that hooks me and it feels really good to finally pull off the cool thing.
Call me, when you print "hello world" with an arcade stick. 👀
I saw this video, raised an eyebrow, settled in for a hard watch but he hits so many nails on so many heads. I'm still on the whole journey of getting back into fighting games, I played the shit out of SFIV and SSFIV back in the day when I was younger but for some reason now coming back I get so anxious going into ranked or anything like that it's unreal, one day haha
How to get into fighting games: Grow up watching Max’s amazing series, Assist me.
That’s what got me! Along with a dad who played Street Fighter with me as a kid.
I wonder if a possible solutioneering measure for the issue of "taking a break when frustrated is a dropoff point for people" might be the inclusion of a more relaxing minigame. Sort of like how Smash Bros. Brawl had the coin launcher game for unlocking stuff when you don't want to just play matches or run through Subspace again, or Splatoon 1's Squid Jump minigame, something simple and arcadey like that where you can earn some rewards but you're not playing for clout, just fun. I know that's kind of just "the Nintendo move" but I think it could genuinely help.
Nintendo is good at making games feel worth your time
I absolutely think that pacing is vital to any video game. And playing fighting games online has no pacing beyond connection time -- when you're in game, it's all intensity all the time, and when you're out of game, either you're watching Netflix on the other monitor because you're fucking bored, or you're trying to make the best use of your training mode time, which is intense in its own way.
I truly and honestly think that adding some way for people to engage with the game in a chill, relaxed way between matches, would VASTLY improve player retention among newcomers. Getting into fighting games can be mentally exhausting, especially for working adults who have spent their entire day stressing over work.
The fighting game that clicked with me was Tekken 7. I’ve always enjoyed the music and the simplicity of it but one day, I turned on Tekken 7 and spent the day actually trying to learn. Chose Noctis (yes, emo boy Noctis), went into training to learn moves and sample combos and just got better and better at combining moves and tactics the more I played. I even have a playlist on my channel of a bunch of random ranked sets and I see myself get better and better. The hard work does pay off when you start dominating your opponents and know what your opponent is gonna do. I have a bunch of clips stored on my PS4 of combos I did with different characters.
I’m a DC Comics fan that got into fighting games when Injustice was announced and bought SS4AE fairly cheap on the 360. Like the guy in the video, I’d had fighting games on my shelf and been a casual button masher. Injustice and AE made me dive deeper into the mechanics and I started to learn. My mind was blown by the depth. Before that, I’d never even heard the term ‘safe on block’. I was learning by watching RUclips videos and playing and always went back to SF over injustice. Now, fighting games are my favourite genre with SF being my favourite series. I try a lot of fighting games these days but always go back to SF. I’m not particularly great at them, but the progression I’ve made along the way has been the most rewarding experience I’ve had in gaming. I love fighting games.
That was such a great video! I've mostly played Tekken though my fighting games journey (which isn't anywhere near big). But as much as in any competitive game, I feel like I've actually evolved the most from losing. It is a very scary thought, but once you start to really analyse your replays you will almost feel yourself grow! "A failure is not a failure if you learn from it" is words to live by.
This was a damn feel-good video especially as someone who also just started picking up fighting games actually with effort.
I think what makes this video so good is that most tutorials teach you how to get GOOD at fighting games, but this one is teaching you how to have FUN with fighting games.
I think that one of the most important aspects of fighting games is that it's almost everytime a 1v1 scenario, it's always a skill demonstration between two players but that's also what makes it scary, its facing that "maybe I'm not that good" moment
That's why a good single player mode is very important to not just fighting games but games in general. Gives the game more depth sure, but it also allows players that want to take a break from online, and yet, don't to stop playing, to switch it up.
There's a lot of stuff that's happened over the past ten years that I would have loved to get access to back when I played a (for me) ridiculous amount of fighting games, the whole Discord thing, ridiculously detailed resources that have only improved, better netcode, hell even knowing how to ask questions better, like "I know it's something I need to do, but what is practicing" and I can turn it into a more detailed question that isn't, as broad. Just haven't found my way back, and it's great to see videos like this and Alex Nostalgix's to help keep that old flame kindled, even if I struggle to get back in. Thanks for covering this.
This guy was also a producer for polygon/Brain David Gilbert’s series ‘Unraveled’ which is like. One of the best series on this website
As somebody who grew up with a lot of fighting games, one of my favorite parts always was unlocking alternate costumes for my favorite characters. Let's hope Alex eventually comes back to Tekken!
34:55 Max is right tho. back in arcade era, we don't have internet to search "how to deal with x character", frame data and stuff. When someone beat you up you just insert another coin and do a revenge match. Arcade players' learning process comes naturally by adapting in each time they lose, and that was a very rewarding moment.
my first tourney experience was in melee at about 9 years old, i didnt make it far on the bracket but did win a few matches against adults. I can remember the amount of satisfaction on winning a tournament match, it was probably the first time I felt like i was doing something that meant alot to me. I still have some friendships i made 15 years ago thanks to that experience. While not too involved in any fighting game community anymore, it is something id recommend to anyone to try if they are interested
What I liked most about this video was his chill and laidback demeanor, yet very encouraging and positive.
The second thing was him addressing ladder and competitive anxiety, I struggle with that a lot but he had some very good advice.
My biggest tip is to ALWAYS rematch; especially if you're losing.
I've only improved as much as I did because I kept rematching everyone over and over again. I loss to a perfect match... I rematch and adapt, this time dealing a bit more damage. Still lose. Rematch again, and this time I win a round. Lose the match. Rematch and get really close to winning. Rematch and eventually win.
I've been on the opposite end of this too, and it's just as satisfying. It made me so happy to legit lose to someone who I've been rematching and wiping the floor with them. You can genuinely see the improvement in real time and we both got better for it.
To be fair, I really really love YT Polygon.
They have video essays, videos of board games, and of course, videos of one of the most insane person to ever walk on earth.
You know who.
I found your channel bc KI i remembered playing when i was a kid and now i need to know whats going with the franchise and found some of your video of you playing but then i discovered more of your videos, street legacy, akuma legacy and now tekken legacy and damn now i want to play fighting games and this video just proves that this and those channel are important to created interests :)
I think ease of controller input associated with characters matters as well. I’ve practiced shoryukens hundreds of times and I still will only input it right maybe 60% of the time 😂. I might wanna play a cool looking character, but if they have fdf input I’ll put that character to the back of my to-learn list
The beautiful part of fighting games is the improvement that you see happening as you slowly realise yourr getting better. A good fighting game make you feel like a dance or conversation between you and your opponent. Its honestly the best feeling to get outplayed and not be salty amd learn from it. Its like a unspoken conversation between you and your opponent.
I've always told myself that I love the idea of fighting games, probably my absolute favorite genre of games in theory, but the learning curve isn't a curve, its a fucking cliff and it is insanely daunting to tackle. I really started to get into the idea of actually playing fighting games when Project L was announced, as a veteran of League and someone who always liked the idea of fighting games, it has been in the back of my mind since their announcement. I absolutely love League's roster of characters, and can't wait to see how they are all translated into a fighting game. I'm a week or two into really trying to stick with fighting games, and I'm having a lot of fun so far, despite feeling like a toddler who can't even walk. Just recently starting actually playing online in strive after only labbing and playing w/ my friend. It was incredibly daunting, but I got over it and quickly realized that actually playing online against different people is not that bad. I suck so much, but I'd rather get that suck out of the way now and be ready to play at a decent level come Project L's release.
Are you me? This is literally my situation. Keep on grindung my man. We'll make it.
X3 man I'm still learning to walk in these games lmao
Same man I’ve always loved fighting games but was pretty casual at them skill wise until I played mk 11
Ive played casually on and off since i was a 5 year old pushing buttons on mk2 on the SNES.
Only in the last 2 or 3 years of really desiring to improve has lifted me out of "utter shit" to "slightly less shit"
But god damn it has always been fun as fuck.
Try not to put too much pressure on yourself. Nobody became a skilled player overnight. It takes a lot of time and effort to play at the highest level. Even then, getting to that level probably isn't a healthy goal. I recommend focusing on trying to enjoy the learning process and accepting that losses are actually a good thing. Having the right mindset is what helps anybody become proficient in anything. Most importantly, don't forget to have fun!
I really like all of the subjects and points of discussion that naturally come up from videos like these such as matchmaking and how that immediately affects a newcomer and their initial enjoyment of the game.
I'm commenting on this super late, but I'm extremely happy to have found this video just before Street Fighter 6's release. The most "fighting" I've done in a fighting game is playing casual smash bros with friends. Never played MK, never played a previous Street Fighter, none of it. I'm super stoked to jump in to the fighting game scene and hopefully pick up a lot during my time. :)
Hows it going? Sf6 was my first street fighter too and I am in love. I am in deep now. I also ended up taking up third strike on fightcade as a result hahah
I am shocked (in a good way) at the sheer quality of this video from Polygon, of all places. I wrote an article for a gaming site many years ago, essentially covering all of the same points. Assuming the presenter also wrote this, it's very clear he truly loves fighting games.
Honestly a lot of what this guy said is so applicable to how I tried to get into fighting games, I have tried to get into the genre since SF4 with no luck, then onto Tekken 7 and despite hundreds of hours still didn’t click, I tried getting a stick and it still didn’t click.
Then DBFZ came along and again despite loving Dragonball and especially Vegeta I still just couldn’t really get in. Eventually Strive dropped and I kinda cruised along playing Ky and basically only stuck with the game because friends still played but I still wasn’t motivated to lab or really learn. Then Baiken dropped and all of a sudden all those years clicked, I was labbing religiously, I was grinding out the tower and kept climbing, I started developing neutral and more advanced movement tech and eventually this month I finally reached celestial and oh boy I’m actually in love with the genre properly now!
So along with the XP meters, I feel like fighting games should give you achievements for losing to show that defeat is natural and that we learn from it. Have little descriptions like "You lost 10 battles. Your journey is just beginning!" all the way up to 1000 battles which could day "Take some time to see how much you've grown!"
Facts
They could give you XP for every anti air, whiff punish, parry etc that you did in a match.
Hey Max, thank you for sharing this video! I really needed to hear this! As a kid growing up in the late 80s and 90s I always gravitated to fighting games because of the simple fact that as soon as you turn the game on you can pick your characters and jump right into a match .. I don't mind certain RPGs but when I play a video game I want to play a video game, I just always loved fightings games and I'm very casual about it! I like the line that was dropped in this video about seeing some cool shit and wanting to press some buttons and make it happen! The simplicity of that concept! Because of this video I picked back up some games that I put down because I wanted to keep up with all of the "cool kids" so to speak .. fighting games that I felt everybody else was playing because I want to be apart of the conversations, I want to understand the lingo! But this video brought me back ..
I've never played KOF until I heard you talk about it and now 15 is one of my favs .. I suck but that's ok! But I picked back up a game that I've actually won some casual matches in .. MK11! I just like that game! And I actually do like it better than MKX .. but I realize that it's ok! .. thank you again Max! I have been following you for a few years now! I have learned so much! Next year I might enter a tournament who knows! But thank you Max!
Max is the entire reason I've decided to get serious in learning Fighting Games with Tekken 8 now. I've always liked it, had Jin's shoulder tattoo for over 20 years now as my only one. But now I've invested in a fight stick (because I miss my old days of Arcade Tekken 3), and I'm dead set of learning fighting games through Tekken 8 with Jin and possibly Reina (Mishima fanboy). I'm so hyped and absolutely expecting to get my butt handed to me for weeks on end :p
This video is such a W for the FGC. It's articulated perfectly.
26:14 step 7 is also crucial because of how much you can learn from a good mirror match.
Regarding the "Take a break" idea, I thought that was part of the purpose of adding mini-games. You could also probably add the option to give the player a CPU opponent to fight with easier AI for a bit, or give them a CPU opponent who's AI is tuned specifically to do more of the stuff that the player is losing to.
AI personalities that prefer different kinds of movesets is a thing in DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3 for the PS2 and Wii. There's a channel running a _DBZ League_ that runs tournaments with teams that are built by the players. It's like a 3 on 3 tag fighter with flying and arena combat. You can have AI vs AI matches, which means you can have people form teams to build a character and add equipment to them that will give them extra health and buff their defence, or you can turn them into melee powerhouses that have moves that give them more super armour, and you can choose different AI personalities that will trend the AI's choices to use certain tactics.
I'm just saying, there are ways to have a "Surprise challenger!" pop up in other modes if the player is on a losing streak. Kind of like in Smash Bros where you could fight CPU characters after fulfilling certain conditions and unlock stuff if you beat them. Reward the players for playing.
I played a lot of fighting games as little kid with my siblings but fell off as I got older so there is always some nostalgia. Later in life I got really fascinated by eSports, the organizers side of it. As far as eSports goes I don't think any competitive games comes CLOSE to FGC tournaments. The 1v1 nature of it, the clash of personalities. I would love to get into that side of it.
A comment on "good internet connection": Most ISPs nowadays do marketing around the amount of bandwidth and data caps (if any) they offer, but for fighting games that doesn't mean shit. What you should be looking for instead is a common public lesser known metric known as latency (or ping).
The good news is that internet speed tests already give you that metric. Just hop onto your favourite speed test (or google for one) and take note of your ping. Anything below 50 ms is good for fighting games, and if you are in single digits it's as good as you can ever ask. Another way to shop around for better internet for online fighting gaming play is to check the technology they are using. If you have access to fiber cable internet in your area, absolutely go for it. DSL and Coaxial can be ok or very iffy depending on how old the infrastructure and actual cables are. If you are on satellite or dial up, forget it. You'd have more luck moving out.
Ping isn't really influenced by your ISP the way you think it is. If your ISP isn't stable then yeah, your ping will be shit. Ping is mostly affected by distance.
Ping is mostly a mesure of the time packets take to get somewhere and back to you.
They farther the game servers are the shittier your ping is.
@@alexandrebelair4360 there are shitty ISPs, especially on older tech like DSL or cable, that can introduce significant ping just from your connection.
Another factor is jitter (basically variance of latency). And that's the major factor why wireless sucks. Its hard to get a good connection when your ping varies from 40-80ms with spikes of 200+ms, even if on average its 50ms.
That said, I agree if you have a good fiber optic connection, the ping from your own connection should be below 1ms. And then its a matter of distance.
@@alexandrebelair4360 Once you are in the double digits of ms latency, ping can be *very* ISP influenced (but mostly who knows) by the kind of equipment they use. In reality, while ping is indeed affected by distance mostly, it isn't the only factor. What kind of routers do they use? Does the traffic stay in fiber optics most of the time or does it go through cables or antennas at some point? How do they handle high-traffic hours? Are their firewall systems configured correctly? Are they using Carrier-Grade NAT and if so, how powerful are their servers? Are they allowed to use third party nodes so they can save on network traversal hops? At which point are they connected to the internet backbone? It's not trivial; the internet is more complex than what people think it is, but I didn't want to overwhelm people with that much technical details.
Honestly, the number of variables that affect ping in high performance networks is so great that the only reliable way to test it is to actually measure it on the field once a connection has been deployed. This is what ISPs technicians and engineers do all day for work: tweaking and testing, sometimes upgrading when times are exciting. That's why I rather recommend to run a speed test rather than just judge it by the advertised Mbps, and pay attention to that metric. Run the test against the closest CDN (usually in your city or a nearby one), against the US coasts, UK and South Korea to get an idea of how it might actually perform, at least from your side. For fighting games with rollback netcode double digits is good. If during a matchup in-game the other side gets an awful +100ms ping connection to your fastest nodes that's not on you.
@@rodylermglez You are just repeating what I'm saying with more information.
@@deice3 I literally said that.
When I think of making a fighting game more accessible to newer players, I immediately think of the MK11 tutorials. The fact that in addition to demonstrating the move/technique/string visually and what it should look like they show you the button presses and most importantly, there is a little click when each input is pressed so not only do you have the visual you have the audio of the input too in order to aid you getting your timing right. It sounds daft but the addition of that click helped me process what I needed to do to get the rhythms without dumbing down what it is I was trying to do. Whenever I’m trying to learn combos, if I can catch the sound and rhythm of the combo button inputs I can replicate it a lot easier than just seeing the instructions for it and that makes practicing so much less frustrating and builds confidence so much faster.
This polygon guy is like the echo version of max
When I started picking up fighting games, I thought it was all about trying to do the combos. But now I realize that’s not always the case. I’ve learned so much about fighting games through Maximilian. One thing I learned is that fighting a human player is much different from fighting the computer or learning combos on RUclips. From my experience, most human players aren’t going to do those crazy combos that you see on RUclips. I’m sure some can, but it’s extremely difficult when playing someone on the same skill level as you. So I started to learn that it wasn’t just about the combos but it’s just the counters and knowing when and how to block at the right time.
Fighting games are like sports. You gotta merk your opponents
I started playing Killer Instinct Online for the first time completely prepared to be able to lose but to have fun, I caught Dinossaur and the matchmaking threw me against a player Too good but even losing I kept giving Rematch and he kept accepting it, my girlfriend was on my side counting how many times we rematch. after 46 games in a row I won the first and the Pro Player on the other side started to get mad and soon after I won the second and he gave up. Then I went to play more and future matches started to get more easy and more challenging against better players who underestimated me for my Level and Rank
My girlfriend turned to me and said "That was funny, that guy only learned nothig just by winning games and you only learned by losing. You know what? Now I want to play! Get that cool Skeleton!"
Good story, great girlfriend
I'm glad you mentioned reward for participating because I always thought this was a huge issue that not many people seem to acknowledge. There should absolutely be some sort of reward for simply participating in a match. Whether it's currency to unlock cosmetics, EXP toward leveling up some overall character rank that unlocks whatever or simply just acts as a "tracker" of sorts for your "total time played" on that character. I know in this day and age "participation trophies" or whatever are super frowned upon and all that, but losing sucks and it's made even worse when I feel like my time spent hasn't amounted to anything. Winning should absolutely reward MORE of whatever, but I agree that there definitely needs to be some sort of participation reward even if it's minor.
For me and my experience starting with fighting games(I just play strive right now) it was the music. LittleVmills did a cover of find your one way and I wanted MORE of whatever the fuck that was. And then I heard The roar of the spark. The video I found had some cool Ky combos in the background and hey cool sword character who using lighting... so $60 and a couple hours learning how to play and I was in love. I still have yet to reach celestial floor but just having fun sets and doing cool shit with the roar of the spark playing is easily in my top 3 gaming experiences. The others being Playing Zelda twilight princess as a kid and beating the nameless king in dark souls 3 for the first time. I also play Leo if I want to turn my brain off real quick.
I started playing strive because I was obsessed with yo-yos as a kid. I saw the Bridget reveal trailer and it's been a wrap since.
There isn't much in this video that hasn't been said or explored by content creators within the FGC, be it you, Core A Gaming, Sajam, or even a couple of shitty videos that I've made that have no views.
What sets a video like this apart, though, is it comes from the perspective of somebody who who is new due to the general and community. This is a video about what they learned during their journey in the modern era of the FGC. Kind of a "By Beginners, For Beginners".
That's valuable.
I don't play fighting games and I spent 47 mins absolutely entertained by the video and Max's thoughts. He definitely envisions so much potential for fighting games. Liked the argument about Multiversus and the exp. People drop them because they don't get meaningful rewards when losing.
The Polygon video team are always great. I think Pat did an amazing job of talking about the subject with both passion and nuance
The thing about tangible rewards: I so agree. I miss when I was a kid and I played fighting games that gave you new characters, new costumes, endings, etc. Now everything is behind a pay wall or loot box situation that makes the grind for such content even worse. I miss busting my ass to beat Gado and Shen Long so that I can unlock them, or playing through the roster of MvC 1 to unlock alternate versions of characters. It helped give me motivation to try out multiple characters and then, in my own, I learned the "feel" of a game, to know that this game as a whole requires more offense, more defense, a reliance on super moves, a reliance in combos, etc
*My way of getting started in a new fighting game like a DNF Duel, I choose my favorite character or one that really catches my eye and jump into Training Mode for a while and get handle of it and then do the all Single Player Content.*
Also my favorite characters are usually the OP, sexy, edgy or badass ones and for Polygon, this video speaks SO WELL with me too..
This video with your commentary is the exact organic path I took BACK into fighting gaming - I grew up with street fighter/MK/Killer Instinct but was never good enough to battle it out in the arcade. Never had the funds to play it at home for long periods of time either - pandemic reopened my love of Street Fighter but also just…gaming. I’ve learned more about gaming in the last 18 months than I did in the last 18 years!
Pat does great stuff. His bloodborne video about movement is so good.
I’m actually watching this video because of the Polygon video. Patrick’s video already gave me great motivation to try fighting games, but it’s really nice to know that there’s a community of people like Max who share Patrick’s opinions on enjoying the game. What you said about needing some sort of battle pass or exp is really nice-while I wish that mere love of gaining new knowledge by being smushed by a better player was enough motivation, sometimes I’m only human, and I’d like to see a number go up. Sometimes I should “git gud”, and sometimes you’re absolutely right-the game/genre needs to do SOMETHING.
The thing about taking a break is crazy. I'll stop playing tekken for months but my wave dashing and kbd is a little smoother the next time I play. Same with dbfz. My movement is just better. And as a casual that's burnt out from toxicity in games(I used to play cod and overwatch) I just want to play fighting games with friends and chill people. Randos give me crazy anxiety even if I'm the one kicking their asses
One thing i miss so much about Injusfice 2 was the cosmetic system. Being able to really make your character YOURS. The fact that these games give you no progression besides some banners and the odd skin or color here or there i think massively hurts the genre. I think thats a big component as to why For Honor still has a pretty decent and dedicated fanbase (even though i didnt like playing after the CCU update.) People enjoy making their characters your own, skins can be fun, but it loses its luster when you run into the 2000th player running the exact same look. Its something thats so underutilized in the fighting genre and i think itd be so incredibly beneficial
I mostly chose my characters in games based on how popular the character was. I would intentionally pick a character that was rarely used just so when I win, no-one can pull the 'cheap character' defence. There are exceptions to this. For example I like character that just don't typically look like a fighter. I picked up May in Guilty Gear because she just looked like a little girl cosplaying as a pirate and an oversized anchor. That said even with me there are exceptions. I freaking love Bison in any Street Fighter he is in and Hugo in 3S was just too huge and comical not to try out.
In tekken it would still be called cheap lol. Not popular characters have a lot of flowcharts that few people know how to deal, so they turn into a nightmare. A guy winning a world tour wih Panda is a example. No one lab that character, then a guy expert in that character appeared and kicked everyone ass, but he can't do that again because ppl now lab his character.
@@axellyann5085 Well if no-one knew that character that is their problem not his. I don't see the cheapness there. There is a difference between a character that you are not used to and a character that has a move or some kind of check for everything. And also if he is a pro with the character that doesn't automatically mean he will be trash next time. There are usually a handful of OP character and the rest are all perfectly usable. The difference is very minor between each pro.
@@PaulGirdlestone I agree but we are talking about the community and they craziness.
@@axellyann5085 That is true. The attitude is 'Wait! This is different! We don't like different! BAN HIM!'
This man explained absolutely everything what i loved and experienced when picking up Tekken.
I'm getting interested in Street Fighter for the first time because of the changes made in SF6. I hate in fighting games where it becomes a spam fest of the same moves and such, but in street fighter 6 with the burnout meter it seems really interesting
if someone's doing the same move over and over again, that's good for you. Figure out how to counter it and that's free damage for you every time they spam it. Block, and punish. If it's a fireball, jump over it. If someone's whacking you out of the sky over and over, just walk forward slowly and block any moves while inching forward, so you can hit them in the face.
I grew up with SF2 in arcades. There was an array of characters from the start. Each varied in their fighting style/ discipline. They had several moves, but once you mastered their moveset, you could get thru the game with enough patience. Eventually the super bar came into play, opening up the use of special moves. Original SF2 is basic, Super Turbo is its final form.
In the Alpha series (set before 2) it branched out with the ISM system in 3. X, A, and V. Each one offered unique abilities for every fighter. From a maxed out super, to extra guard, or custom combo, to boosting the capabilities of a special moves (which could vary on use of its power level)
SF3 (set way after 2 )went back to basics, while utilizing EX moves, and parrying. Super moves varied by choice, with EX moves being powered up variations of attacks. Parrying if timed correctly, can also charge your super meter. Throughout the 3 series: New Generation, Second Impact: Giant Attack, and Third Strike (this being the complete entry)
Third Strike is the entry that redefines SF3. From mastery, to movesets, balance, and so much more.
SF4: ( both IV and V are set after SF2, but before 3)
From original to Ultra. It breaks up EX moves, giving you more options. Ultra however is faster, but contains tons of characters to play. Super moves, to Ultra differ by power level. There is also a new cancel move, which is helpful. But its up to your play style.
V: original to Champion Edition. A smaller roster compared to Ultra SFIV.
There are two meters:
The V trigger system uses special moves, or custom combo as an option. But you have limited use of moves due to a timed meter.
Your Super can max out, but it takes some time. Similar to SF3 + IV, you can choose which super as a finisher.
Btw SFIV and V offer useful tutorial guides for every character. Try it out to learn moves, specials, and combos. V also offers varied movesets as challenges, definitely worth trying out.
Most of all, find the character you love to play. Try and experiment with those you are not familiar with. Build a rhythm. Enjoy
Can’t wait for 6. I hope I can get into it more than 5
If you think SF6 won't have people spamming specials and normals then you're going to be let down.
@@aramondehasashi3324 it is definitely a given, plus the options as well. Original or modern. One may be full control, the other may have alternate options
New fighting game player here. Street Fighter 6 may be the savior the fighting game community needed. The marketing piqued my interest and I appreciate the effort put in to making the game newbie-friendly and inviting so much that I found myself sold on it. I have a feeling I'm not the only one, and I'm excited to see what all this is about.