HOW TO PULL A VACUUM - Apprentices - Quick TRV change - Plumbing Tips
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2016
- How to pull a vacuum on a F and E or gravity fed heating system. Great for quick TRV, radiator valve changes and small jobs where draining the whole system can be problematic. Plus it will save you a bunch on inhibitor! This video is not for your average DIYer, more for the proper plumber and apprentice looking to learn, so don't try this at home!
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Fricking love these videos I'm a apprentice almost qualified and love Learning more!!!
The best plumbing accessory in my van is a cat litter tray bought from the local Pound shop. It's shallow enough and wide enough to slot under any radiator and catch all the water. Good video, thanks for sharing.
Mine is a black bag / bin liner, you can wrap it around pipe under the valve and fill the bag it's very handy.
Cracking video as always mate. Been following them for a few years now. Especially liked your pipe bending one. Now I've buttered you up......... :-) Can't say I agree with your comments on cracking the PRV's to drain the system. 9 times out of 10 you know that buggers going to let-by, then your going to have to charge you customer for a replacement. I'd advise apprentices to use a radiator drain-off, boiler drain-off or worst case crack an easily accessible nut on the system to catch the water in controlled way. As you mentioned its only to take the pressure out.
I get called to loads of these when, like you've said, a plumbers been on the Friday afternoon hurry up, then left a leaking PRV. = grumpy customer. :-)
Ha! Thanks mate, you know what it's like. I've gone to jobs where the plumber has just put a push fit cap on the outlet outside!
Excellent tip. it has worked successfully for me most times. The vent is usually easy to bung. The tank connector can be more problematical. Sometimes some makes have an annoying groove in them, so it doesn't seal. Others are nice and smooth so it works well.
Yep, had that slight problem on this vid!
Jimbo does THE BEST Vids on the interwebs bar none.
So there.
I am more of an Engineer than a full-time Plumber but I have done tricks like this in the past, one thing that should be thought about and could catch someone out is "Fitting Stop Depth" in the video, the valve was swapped over but the existing nuts and olives were utilized. This is fine to do if the new fitting has a deeper or equal stop depth, however, get a new fitting with a shallower stop depth and the pipe will not travel into the fitting far enough for the olive to seat, sometimes if the olive is not too over-compressed it may just slip up the pipe IF you are very lucky.
If you are unlucky you have either got to try and bung the end with a small rag hacksaw a tiny bit of the pipe away or better still use an olive cutting tool and re-install a new olive.
Good to see. If you don’t have time to use ptfe, prepare the new valve with white paste in advance
Good video as always. I've successfully used this method on a few installations but also applied some V-2 Plus just inside the valve just in case there's an issue with the old olives. 🐾 to Big G
Ha! He's too hot today. Hates mugginess does the G
Hi Im An Apprentice. Thank You Sooooo Much For Your Videos. i Reallly Appreciate Them
No worries mate! Glad they help!
Makita wet/dry vac is amazing for jobs like this
good job pal I tend to just snatch them by turning the trv off then snatch the bottom nut, new valve on that.then snatch the trv union works a treat
Yeah, I love doing a good bit of snatch, bit risky though🤣
Excellent demo mate. From a nearly qualified Plumber.
I use this method all the time. Especially for changing two/three port valves. 👍
Hmmm... little ballsy! I like it!
Surely there's two open ends when you remove a 2 port so there would be no vacuum
Maximum respect Jimmy, bet your danglies were in your throat there for a while. I hate pulling vacuums, but then I hate airlocks too. We made ourselves a handy bit of flexi friday to link the mains and vent via a DC valve and gas valve - works a treat. Very satisfying to see all that rotten air blowing into the F&E tank. Like the bungs BTW, keep looking at this set but they're bloody expensive in City.
Blue tack is a great seal for any awkward cold feeds
you're a true legend you ✌🏼 bring so much sense when my brain farts. good man.
I use these bungs all the time not just for quick change overs
As long as one side is closed off you have plenty of time with them if they make the initial vacuum.
When I do bathroom refits and I'm changing rad for towel rail and need to adjust pipes I use them when I can't be arsed to drain down
Obviously you can't solder so our friend jg is execellent for under floor fittings:0)
nice video they talked about this in college never seen it done tho until now thanks mate :)
No worries Dan!
I was waiting for to get your G tech out!
Interesting, good video fella!
Cheers dude!
That's going to be good to know thank you 😃.
Also that's criminal wearing the sunnies indoors 😂.
Good tip and vid. I do this to quickly cut a valve onto pipework too.....but yeah, the heart thumps:))
Good job that pipe dropped into the floor to enable this type of valve to come off easily though, haha.
if I understood it right, you need to close all bypass valves in all radiators, right?
This is where you learn cross threading as well
Cock
This is great however, is there a video available on how to change a TRV on an upstairs radiator (the tank and pump are downstairs) on a pressurised system please?
That Was a good Clint Eastwood impression 😁
I always turn the trv or lock shield away from the rad and run into bucket or bag until it stops or bungs
It worked for me
Can you cut in a magnaclean doing this?
Nice explanation buddy. Done a few live TRV changes before that was fun...
Yeah, they're always a bit scary!
Do you have turn the boiler off?
Lover Dog turn boiler off. Get everything ready and primed. Use your thumb to hold it. You need a good solid thumb grip though. You will get water spray. It’s hard to explain but perfectly doable.
I meant when you’re pulling a bung on the tank, do you turn the boiler off before hand or does it not matter
@@loverdog7715 Yeah you don't want the pump kicking in!
Hi mate, I "love" you're videos? Where r u located?
I’ve just bought a bung kit, but on the back of packaging it says “ Do not disconnect more than one section of the system at a time (eg one two-way connection but NOT one three-way connection). If I bung a system with a three way motorised valve do I risk damaging the system or not being to be able to pull a vacuum? Please help.
Good to know. Did you change the TVR for a lock shield because the TVR was on the return instead of the flow?
That was a replacement TRV with the dust cap still fitted - not a lock shield. It looks like a Danfoss.
How you doing mince where did you get the bung from
Ann summers
Im no plumber, but did this without dama years ago, only difference is i got the girly in the loft plugging the hole by hand lol.
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Is there a video on how to replace the water inlet or outlet assembly of the W.C (water closet) in the toilet?
Yes, just check our channel and search!
And then you get the ones where the pipe sits further in the old valve than the new, resulting in the olive being stopping the nut meeting the thread. Always nice.
On 10/8mm pipe. Where the olive splitter is too big.
+hankattack One can get olive cutters for 8,10,15 and 22 mm pipe made by monument tools. Each one is pricey but can make valve changes easy, especially if the nut is not also compatible with the new valve
The olive always comes off easier on a rad tail. just use grips if you can and whip it off and have a new olive handy.
Used to do this. Don't anymore. Not after "the incident" lol
Yeah, agree, it was one we were asked to do!
Had a few of those, makes me nervous just thinking about it 😫
I'm gonna try this at my house soon. I'm not a plumber but I'm very handy. Please tell me more about "the incident"!
@@philrogers4535 if your not a plumber he said dont try it youll fuck it up lol
wicked video
Cheers mate!
Realised as you changed the valve I was holding my breath! 🙈
@@epiphgd4302 that's the point.... I don't know why.
All good until you find that the new trv is a different thread than the old. Good fun!!!
a 22mm pushfit cap?
I've always fitted trvs horizontal. Only fitted vertical if there is no space to fit it horizontal. Any reason why it's fitted vertically? I know the type that was changed was bi directional? I find it's easier to read what the valve is set to If it is horizontal.
probably coz it looks absolutely tonk having them horizontal?
Are thermostatic radiator valves problematic compared to the standard ones ?
Theoretically, if the system needs flushing the 'pins' that open / close the flow can sludge up and need changing, where as the standard type are a bit more of a robust mechanical design.
Hi buddy is there a bung out there that can actually fit in those cold feed tank connectors with the nicks around it inside. What else could you use
now you will prob shoot me for this. bread if you squeeze it together to make dough and shove it in always works. you dont have long though. the bread breaks down and does not block anything
Puss a plastic bag in the hole works every time for me
Cork from a wine bottle trimmed to fit might do if nothing else. Don’t turn up at customers with a full bottle of wine though and drink it in the loft just to get cork.
I changed a trv and lockshield on a Friday night... Never had to do it before, pressurised system, don't know what I did wrong but the hot black water exploded into my face! Massive fountain of water came out.. I ran downstairs to shut the stop tap and completed the job with new olives... I still don't fully understand the difference between pressurised.. apart from it being a combi boiler which should act as the bung but what do I do from the valve I'm changing? And with f & E systems I'm yet to take on... Got to do a 2port soon but keep looking for tips on how to do it.. without bungs..
I was just going to tie the ballcock up and drain from lowest point(smallest rad) turn boiler off and carry out the work... Be great to see a video from start to finish using a universal method..
Cheers for your vids Jim! Top stuff, learnt alot from your channel
You said that your system is pressurised yet you have a feed and expansion tank? you turned stop cock off to stop rad leak???
You can only bung an open vent system.
Get a heating engineer out mate please....
I tend to freeze the pipes and stick isolation valves in rather than drain down
What if you have a radiator with no bleed valve ie a old single panel and secondly why is the water from all the other rads not gushing out through the flow there, how will it pull the vacuum if the lock shield is closed?
It can pull it from the TRV side. They are kinda linked back at the boiler I guess. Use an easybleed on that trouble radiator!
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Can you use a wet vac once the system is bunged?
Sure can, just don't put hose over the pipe, might loose your vacuum. otherwise no problem.
@0:25 bit of a Apocalypse now, Marlon Brando reference there.
Great video as always. After watching your videos in the past, I thought I had a combi boiler. Well we had the engineer in for service and he told me it is a Condenser Boiler which has a water tank for the hot water in the airing cupboard. On this video you say a pressurise system with high pressure relief valve (is that the same as PRV), and filling loop, would this be a condenser boiler, as you also mention combi in the same sentence. Thanks for any info, brilliant video. Stay safe you and yours.
He meant to say Pressure Reducing Valve, not a PRV (pressure relief valve). Some guys put Pressure Reducing Valves before the inlet of a filling loop to act as an automatic top up of the system - the pressure will equalise across the cold water mains on the inlet of the filling loop and the system on the other side. This is, however, illegal and contravenes the WRAS regs as filling loops must always be disconnected after use to prevent backwash and contamination in the event that both check valves fail. Plumbers can be fined for contravening that regulation and it was found that contamination of mains water had occurred. Only dodgy plumbers will put one in. Apparently, this practice is more common in Europe, in countries where they have less stringent water regulations.
Both condensing and combination boilers use filling loops to fill the central heating system. Unvented hot water cylinders (which is what I presume you mean by pressurised, as all heating systems are pressurised, but not all are unvented) are always used in tandem with system boilers. So if you have a cylinder you have a condensing system boiler. Combi boilers are also, usually, condensing (the new ones always are). You will never have a tank or cylinder with a combi boiler and you will never have a gravity fed system with a system boiler.
@@L.C.Sweeney Hi Liam
Thanks for the info, nice one. Still not sure what the difference between a combi , which I thought we had, and a Condenser Boiler, any help with that. Thanks again, and keep safe, you and yours.
@@Ilovetosingem no worries at all. Plumbing can be pretty confusing at first. Combis and condensing are not mutually exclusive boiler types. All new boilers are condensing boilers, and that includes combination, system and normal boilers. The best free explanation of UK boilers installation regulations is probably the booklet called _CE30 Domestic Heating by Gas - Guidsnce for Installers and Specifiers_ . There's a good deal of detail on the differences between the types of boilers in section 3 and the difference between vented and unvented in section 4.
Hope that helps.
@@L.C.Sweeney Well, thanks a lot, real quick reply. I'll try to see if I can read up on it and then get back to you. Cheers again.
Liam should be on the payroll! 😂😂
Im a DIYer and am going to try this and if I flood my house I will sue you. Thanks for the vid... :)
A nice waterside property? It'll increase in value 3 fold.
Good luck mate!
get a plumb tub,it goes round the pipe better than towels
I do this all the time. Easy on a combi system. Just release the pressure and go for it.
YEAHH!
Up here in Manchester we call it "snatching" How are you gonna change that TRV? I'll snatch it.
@@Nickbaldeagle02 Yeah snatch is good. I love doing a good bit of snatch me. You gotta be super quick though. 'Cos sometimes it just sprays all over you, right.
Question for Mr PlumberParts: The black tank in the loft you bunged up. Does this tank service the hot water system as well? I have the same tank in my loft, and found the lid had been knocked off. To my horror I found a load of dead mice decomposed, floating in the water. I have no idea how long they had been in there and no idea if the tank itself feeds my hot taps, and in turn my bath water. I'm hoping the tank only feeds the radiators. The water I removed when cleaning the tank was black as anything. My boiler feeds the heating system and hot water system. Thanks for any advice given. ;)
The small black f+e tank only feeds the heating mate
Anf then u find out the valve is different and the olives are to far back lol!! And bung falls out 🤣🤣🤣🤣
PTFE tape around the bungs tip will make a good seal with the feeds that have teeth in them. Make sure you leave a nice long bit of tape free, hold it with your finger when pulling out the bung, don't want that been sucked into the system.
Ok, good tip!
I bunged my primatic system, then someone told me I could of crushed the hot water cylinder with the vacuum. It did work though!
"Theres no time to put PTFE" - says the man who picked up the valve that had sat next to him for the duration of the video.
People, please don't use the PRV in the Combi to drop out the pressure, use a drain tap, the clue is in the name, drain tap! Got some crud stuck in the PRV and your customer, and boiler warranty service engineer (eg me) will not thank you for it!! ;-)
Why do plumbers use adjustable spanners instead of the correct sized spanner? Is this why every nut and valve on my heating system is chewed up, especially drain valves and radiator shut offs?
Adjustables wont chew your nuts and valves. grips will
I was a mechanic for 15 years and just recently moved to the plumbing trade and at 1st i thought the same. until you realise plumbing works in imperial and metric sizes and you don't have the luxury of a 48 inch snapon stack brimmed with individual sizes lol so carrying 3 adjustables and other tools just makes sense now lol. but i do know what you mean because i hated them at 1st
not all 1/2" nuts are the same size, have a look at kuterlite nuts
Well I have a scenario with potentially two fucked olives; due to over-tightening from a so-called experienced plumber! Looks like there's no shortcut then, the system needs to be drained. We have no pump on the hot water too, so no doubt a big nasty airlock is coming my way :( Great video tho, very informative and saved me the hassle of attempting it!!
I tried this and it didn't work for me it just wouldn't vac. Had to drain down in the end.
Do you have to turn the boiler off?
Yes! if your boiler fires up and the pump starts running.... bye bye vacuum = flooded house.
Wish I had watched this first and heeded the warning..
Youre allowed to keep the original nut and olive?!
Looks shite but yeah you can...usually!
22 mm stop end on expansion and cork in outlet is what i use
Each to their own and whatever works!
Never tried a cork. Does the cork create a bung on the header tanks that have a lip on the cold feed?
no not then .. i drain the tank and fit a jg stop end ...
Shove a carrot in.
@@darrenjowett8032 if you've got an apprentice or help. Just get them to finger both sides of the tank, job done.
Hmmmmmmmm very interesting...
Thank you!
how can you apply this on a combi boiler?
Can you use these plugs if both trvs are turn off and the rad it already off the wall?
Yeah but you'd just have to open one of the trv's & drain from there
at 8.00 are you talking about releasing the system pressure at the prv? sod that, never release a system by the PRV in the boiler, you're asking for trouble, bloody things never seal after you open them, and you can spend the next 2 hours struggling to the prv out. like on the WB cdi, horrible hand scratchers trying to get the spring clip out.
Don't do this on a system with a primatic tank. It's an old style heating system. But they are still around.
Good point mate!
"Don't try this at home" Danger is my middle name.
Ha!
Please do a video for a pressurised system
Thanks dude
Jack Jill you have to drain a pressurised system down past the valve
You should change existing nuts in my opinion
It should be cold feed bunged 1st then open vent 2nd
Didn't think it really mattered in the seconds between the two....can you explain why?
Remove feed bung first then open vent to stop air been dragged in, as for fitting doesn't make a difference which way really. I never noticed a difference.
This is also handy on drop-down rads which (stupidly) were not installed with draincocks..
Indeed!
4.45..."shut every radiator at both ends".... Then have to spend 2 hours balancing the system again afterwards...😡
How many Rads are even truly balanced in the First place by Central Heating Engineers...
Thanks to this video my Dyson and I have been happily married ever since!
freeze the damn bottom pipe!!
Unless the old valve had shorter slips than the new one, I found this out in the worst way when I was an apprentice... Filling up the system to hear ''TURN IT OFF, TURN IT OFF'' at the top off my boss's voice
Ha! We've all been there mate....it is a little terrifying sometimes!
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No one wants 30 feet of water pressure in their face! Good luck with the teflon tape on that one :)
Will you sell me a van sticker please James?
Which one do you want mate?
Any one please James.
As if this person still has VHS tapes 'on display'.
No PTFE? You crazy fool :-o
Yeah....but didn't get a leak this time! Phew!
+plumberparts #HOLD TIGHT
no plumber uses PTFE on olives !
"As you can see, no time for PTFE " code for "Bollox! Just realised I forgot to put the PTFE on the threads before taking the old valve off...better say this so the customer thinks its deliberate". Well saved! ;-p
You don't put PTFE on the threads, it goes on the olive !
I set my house on fire doing that
you lost me after Hey!
The next word 'if' often confuses people.....
🙊
What the god damn hell are you talking about boy!