What is Open Theism?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Does God actually know the future? Is the future even something that can be known? If not, how does God know His prophesies will come true? Join us this week as we answer these questions and more as we talk about Open Theism!
![Eminem - Tobey (feat. Big Sean & Babytron) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9xn0OHEZZ8Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video. I am an Open Theist. On the subject of prophecy, I would add that God works to make his plans happen. He is all-powerful, therefore he can do whatever he wants. So when he declares that a certain event will occur in the future, this is not him "seeing" the future - rather, he is declaring what he will cause to happen.
I'm also a open theist. Point on.
Wow, that's mind blowing and paradigm shifting. Even life changing. Thanks for the quick breakdown!
Never mind humans, open theism says that it is God who is free. If the future is settled God is limited by what has already been decided.
I’ve believed this for a long time, I didn’t know it was called something lol
Your energy & editing style are very engaging. I really dig it.
A few clarifications... the term Open Theism is new, but the view is not. In determinism the person may appear to have multiple choices but God has always determined which one they will choose and they could not do otherwise. A huge driving issue for Open Theism is protecting the character of God from such claims He decrees and causes evil. Thus Open Theism asserts God has complete knowledge and absolute power which He exercises by His character to resolve His will, not that He wills all things.
Warren, do you like Greg Boyd?
First time I’d heard of this term until today but this has been my thinking for years now though
Super helpful. I first encountered Open Theism when it was presented by critics as bogeyman of heresy. Didn't think much of it. More recently, I learned that IdolKiller is an open theist (still haven't yet watched his videos on the topic.). I was sorting through some theological books that I was given and saw the name "Clark Pinnock" in a "Four views on Predestination and Free will" book. Pinnock's name rang a favorable bell, not because I can remember reading Pinnock, but because I somehow associated it with views I hold. I read a chunk of Pinnock's article and thought, "Hmm, is this what open theism is?" I did a quick Wikipedia check and, yep, Pinnock was a lead articulator of the bogey man of Open Theism...except that it made sense from a scriptural standpoint and fit well into many of my convictions. That's when I came to the RUclipss to listen to Pinnock, found some poor audio quality lectures he was given and was distracted by this video thumbnail. Thanks.
Thanks for this, I saw Capturing Christianity was releasing a video in a couple of days about Open Theism and I had no idea what that meant.
Great summary
Iam a half Open theist. Like your channel from India brother 🙂🌄🙏
God knows the future of his prophecies because he has determined (for most of his prophecies at least) to fulfill them
Hahaha, the captcha joke 🤣
I love your question mark - Light bulb. It Is cool and creative.
Thank you!
A really excellent summary of the Open Theist position. I did my masters thesis on the subject and it pains me when I hear the theology being disparaged. I would tend towards Greg Boyd's Neo-Molinistic views rather than Open Theism but the two have similar viewpoints in that God does not have foreknowledge.
That's high praise, thank you so much!
I tend towards a view that is mostly molinism and part open theism. Perhaps I should give Greg Boyd a hearing.
the question is not that of foreknowledge, but of predetermination...
A man says to you, "God determines some events, but not all. Therefore, if God yet ordains to give even one more free choice to someone, then the future is at least that much open."
Then he asks whether he is an open theist or something else. What do you say?
"Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools"...(...fools who believe God is not omniscient)
--Romans 1:21,22
So molinism and open theism both hold that the future is not set in stone, but the difference is that molinists believe that God can see all the possible branches, and thus not be "surprised" by anything? Molinism holds that God is more intelligent, in a certain way?
But the answers don’t have to be finite if God is infinite. I haven’t read the book you listed just looking at the Bible God regrets, and changes his mind based on human responses. Is that not true?
Short and simple to understand! I like your style man!
Thanks!
There’s a difference between seeing that God experiences time the way we do or that we are in the same time as God is although for us time is very different than it is to him
Great video! There are some stronger arguments than the ones made here. But this was a great summary nonetheless!
Are you an open theist?
I am not, but I try to see the validity in all scripturally backed opinions.
@@ThePracticalApologist gotcha! Thanks for putting this out man
There’s parts of this which are accurate, and parts that are inaccurate. First the accurate. Open Theists do believe that God is omniscient.
Inaccurate is the assertion that Open Theists do not believe that God knows the future. Open Theists do believe that God knows the future, and believe He knows it perfectly. They believe that the future is not completely determined, but is comprised of both determined (the earth will revolve around the sun; God has said He will do certain things), and things not determined (quantum mechanics, decisions made by sentient beings).
Also inaccurate is the regarding the history of Open Theism. A Wikipedia article goes into this. Greg Boyd references something written in I think 1955, although I don’t remember what it was.
Greg Boyd is a good reference in regards to Open Theism.
Despite the inaccuracies, this video was much better than many, with a pleasant non-judgmental tone to it, and getting that Open Theists believe that God is omniscient was nice to see.
2:33 Too Lazy; Didn’t Research? Here are the supporting Bible passages mentioned in the video:
- Asking about the future:
Numbers 14:11 - And the LORD said to Moses, “How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them?
- Things God thought would happen but didn't:
Jeremiah 3:7 - And I thought, ‘After she has done all this she will return to me,’ but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
- Regretting actions he's previously taken:
Genesis 6:6 - And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.
1 Samuel 15:10-11 - The word of the LORD came to Samuel: “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me and has not performed my commandments.” And Samuel was angry, and he cried to the LORD all night.
- Experiencing the passing of time (patient, slow to anger, being provoked):
Exodus 34:6 - The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness,
Nehemiah 9:17 - They refused to obey and were not mindful of the wonders that you performed among them, but they stiffened their neck and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt. But you are a God ready to forgive, gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and did not forsake them.
Zechariah 8:14 - For thus says the LORD of hosts: “As I purposed to bring disaster to you when your fathers provoked me to wrath, and I did not relent, says the LORD of hosts,
Great video my brother, God bless!
Could you be a Molist(?) and an open theist at the same time?
Really, I'd say that all of these sort of gradually shift from one to the other, and they have some blurred lines in between. So yeah, I'd say there's probably something in between the two.
But traditionally, if you think God has *any* knowledge of the future, you are not an Open Theist, and if you think God has *no* knowledge of the future, you're not a Molinist.
And, of course, you don't have to define yourself by any of these. As long as what you believe is backed up by scripture, you're good.
Wouldn't Jonah and the whale be an instance of God contravening free will for his purpose?
Great video
I don’t think an open theist would say that God doesn’t know His prophesies will come true. It’s one thing to know something will happen, it’s another thing to know you will do something personally. I might not know what it’s like to be a Mexican, but I know that I’m going to kiss my wife when she gets home. Doing something (effecting a promise) is different than knowing the future
Can the potter do what he wants to the pot irrespective the pots ‘free will’?
Jeremiah 18 shows that the Potter wanted to make a vessel, but the clay was messed up, so He instead made it into a different vessel. The Potter never finished making the first vessel He wanted to make.
This hurts my brain, but molinism makes perfect sense to me. I've always pictured God as seeing all of time at once...like if I was looking at a ruler on my desk. If God is outside of time, then the future has happened, at least from His view. I'm making this up as I go along.
How is it possible to see events that haven’t occurred even if he’s outside time? Also, Jesus stepped into history with us, maybe God has stepped into time with us.
Numbers 14:11 is a pretty poor example. God isn’t asking Moses why the Israelites reject him literally it’s a rhetorical question he wants Moses to contemplate imo.
Genesis 6:6 is a good example of God saying he was disappointed with humanity 1 Samuel 15:10-11 is similar as well.
So what u r saying is I know the future on what a coin flip will be, because I know it will be heads or tails? That is the same as not knowing.
Open theism says there is no future of what it will be because it isn’t determined yet (unless God decided to determine this particular coin flip).
@@jordandthornburg So what u r saying is God does not know the future unless God forces something to happen? It still puts the damper on prophecy. God would have to affect people's free will for hundreds of years till he gets his prophecy fulfilled. I'm for a God that does not know the future. The problem then becomes, why allow so much suffering? He does not know some good will come of the suffering. He kills babies and does not know whether they would have grown up to cure cancer.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
@@gabrielteo3636 no that is not what I am saying
@@gabrielteo3636 God is powerful enough and wise enough to bring good out of evil so He knows for a fact he can bring good out of any evil.
@@jordandthornburg I don't get how "God can bring good out of evil" is possible without knowing the future. That would mean God would have to interfere constantly every time a child dies to make up for the suffering. Let's take the scenario a baby gets extremely painful bone cancer and dies in a year or 2. The child will suffer and so will the parents and all the people who know about this. If God does not know the future, then there is now way to know if this suffering baby is worth the pain and suffering. Wouldn't a good God just cure the baby with the bone cancer?
I am an open theist, but I do not hold to the idea that if God knew that we would all sin and that therefore he would be partially responsible! Maybe some believe that, but I don’t
I always brace myself for poor representations of open theism.
Open theism limit the infinity. Its not true.
This is blasphemy. God knows everything and is not limited by space or time. People need to read the Bible.
What do you make of the scriptural references provided?
@@ThePracticalApologist The incomprehensible, infinite, alogical, timeless, spaceless, immaterial, fortune-telling god of the globe earthers and Calvinists is not real. It does not exist. The real God of the ancient Israelites has an objective existence and is finite, logical, within the dimensions of the same time and space that we have, with a physical location in the direction we call "up."
Time doesn't exist as an object, neither does space. Some form of matter/material/substance always existed alongside God that he created everything out of. All them are eternal, but are not co-equal with God. So a physical God doesn't violate the rule of infinite regression. In fact, a physical God is REQUIRED for there not to be infinite regression.
Reading the Bible is how people arrived at open theism.
Open Theism may be the worst doctrine ever. Thanks, I've heard enough.
😂