I'll Burn That Bridge When I Get To It
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2023
- What’s at stake when academic freedom is challenged? Academics Norman Finkelstein and Christian Parenti speak with journalist Jeanne McGuire about facing institutional backlash for their personal views and theoretically-based work. Together, they explore what society loses when ideas aren't allowed free reign in debate, research or exploration.
Recording on December 5, 2023 at Toronto Reference Library, this event is part of a new series exploring what’s at stake when intellectual freedom is threatened.
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I love Norman. He sports the grin of a heretic who knows he is right while burning in the bonfire of his own making. When you speak truth to power, after much time and effort, it becomes a power unto itself. Scroll to the 25 minute mark as Norman begins to speak. He is the personification of the idea that the truth will always prevail, even after many many decades of demonization, professional ostracism, and the pure hatred some have for the truth.
Me too. And what a gap between Norman Finkelstein's level of erudition, scholarship and rhetoric (not to mention humanity) and that of the other so very dry and dull speaker! The fact that American universities have banned such a scholar from serving as a professor is a tragedy. I bet his students couldn't help but love him!
@@lenacohen8913 I don't find Parenti dry or dull. The message that wokeism is not leftist, however fashionable the conflation of those two modes of discourse may be, seems to me valuable.
You have a way with words. Or were you using ai?
@myotheruncle4744 You are free to think whatever you want and like whoever you want. For me he is a dry, boring guy, there are millions like him all over the world, while Norman Finkelstein is unique.
@@lenacohen8913 Obv, you also are free to think whatever you want, & I never said otherwise.
…”you can’t suppress speech merely because it offends” Absolutely beautiful
Consider the 9th Amendment as a lesson on how to deal with free speech.
When it is used to infringe other rights, it should no longer be protected.
This only negatively effects the haters, fascists, and bigots who have a minority they would like to suppress.
The enumeration in the Constitution, shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people.
Hate speech has NEVER been covered.
----
This pretty much just means that right-wing trash are the only ones in the wrong. But there isn't a time in history when they weren't.
Yes, but it is happening everywhere.
you think this is insightful?! this is just a banal assertion of free speech absolutism, i.e., classic duck-the-issue simplification. there are many critiques of this simplistic idea.
Yes we can if it's, say, pedophilic speech.
@@sayresrudy2644it is indeed banal and not particularly insightful exactly it is such a basic tenet of free speech. Otherwise, I can ban anything you say because it offends me
Norman is my hero. What a privilege to hear him talk. Thank you.
Wonderful! Dr. Finkelstein is a true hero in all he does. His courage, integrity, and commitment to justice are second to none ❤️ And a big thank you to the Toronto Public Library for hosting him!
Norman is my idol, man. I'm still in high school but I want to pursue a career with his influence in social justice and political science; he's so educated, disciplined and he's very passionate about the truth. I'm super psyched that he came to Toronto, too. Hopefully I'll see him next time. I'm so grateful to be part of his audience.
❤
That's admirable. But normann finkelstein had no career because he cared about social justice. You should remember that.
This is the first lecture I have watched of Professor Finkelstein's that was not about Israel/Palestine, and you really get to see what a great teacher his is. No doubt a very intelligent man all around.
WTF? Go back and count the times he mentions October 7. Or mentions Palestine.
@@robertbentley3589 you are not very intelligent I see
@@robertbentley3589 , listen to the beginning where he clarifies that he will speak to the topic as selected pre Oct. 7, and he says he will incorporate events related to 10/7 as they relate to the topic, which is: academic freedom.
@robertbentley3589
Ole Finky can’t contain himself fr bringing up Oct7/Gaza/Palestinians so much because that’s his shtick.
@@rebeccabrooks484 has nothing to do with comment. Ffs
Prof Finkelstein is an honourable humble intellectual and has my utmost respect.
💯HIS 👑 AMONG HIS PEERS.
Professor Finkelstein!!!!👏👏👏...Thank you so much Toronto Public Library for bringing us this wonderful man! What a great example of an honourable person!❤
Thanks TPL for letting Norman speak, and not letting fear mongering shut this talk down.
Norman Finkelstein as always is directly on point. A real pleasure to listen to him.
I can’t believe anyone would try to ban this man from talking. I’m very happy that tpl didn’t give into any irrational and unfounded outside pressure.
Norm, I am H O O K E D!!!!! It now 0600 in london. I can never take my eyes and ears away from every pearl of wisdom you reveal. I really hope that you put the lectures back up again, the ones where you let people join in.
I doubt Norman is susceptible to flattery, but nice try. 😅
me. too i brought his books and gave away to ppl
oh stop, you're better off trying to negate his arguments rather than fawning , and then report back
MY REPLY:
‘To The Cynics + Naysayers’ ‘Paul…’, ‘Afro..’ + ‘PSA..’.. (YT handles)
ONE: You are all such cynics; presumably leading such boring lives, “fawn”, “flattery” etc. It’s not the first time I have had contact on email with this wonderful intellectual. 2nd - I may look like someone who would be the last person to know or even care about anything beyond my appearance “you’re so hot, why do you have to be a terrori*t?” “I don’t care if you don’t like Israel! You’re still hot!” Says IDF filth. You lot on here are in the same category. I am an Oxon graduate in History, ) like NF in History), I have researched, been sent by my dept to Palestine over the years - I produced a 12k word diss on “the origins of Palestinian Nationalism + Zionism, 1882-1922’, supervised by non other than the amazing Prof Eugene Rogan, @ St Antony’s college, Ox. There is no better MENA centre in the world. Fact is I’m well connected, one has charisma, you call it ‘flattery’, knowledge, draws others in. I am very different to you 3 in many ways. Assisted by Avi, Karma, we can even talk about Zomlot if you really want, or maybe Hroub + his Hamas for beginners book. That would be kissing + telling tho wouldn’t it? He’s the head of MENA at Camb Uni. I completed a second MSc diss concerning 2006 HS elections, Gaza, EU specifically. CONT PART 2.
CONTINUED!
TWO: I have been by Palestine’s side for 23 years. Nothing will ever change that - ie would never conceive of trading Palestine in for my looks + money, fame, to say “I fkd the mayor of bethle**** son” - from rich + ruling money grabbing FATAH(!!) NO. My intelligence knowledge + insight on Palestine, +Marxism, +your attempts here to portray me as some kind of ‘floozy’ or whatever (because you are superficial oddballs who don’t show your own faces) doesn’t deter me. It never will. I imagine you three are some of types of problems NF has written about in his book. If those comments from the 3 of you weren’t ID politics then god really knows what is.
Norm's dedication to objective truth is something we should all strive for.
Every time I listen to Norm I learn so much
I can't tell you how much I love Dr Finkelstein's RBF. I wish we could hear his internal monologue.
Thank you prof. Finkelstein for your superior, truthful arguments and for all you do for humanity in general, as for your own people too, now in this terrible times. Your voice against violence is unique, your credibility undestroyable. I see you as the greatest barrier standing against moral distortions and terrible crimes od XXI century. Thank you.
Very stimulating talks from both speakers. Congratulations to the Toronto Public Library for letting us hear these speakers.
Absolutely EXCELLENT discussion. ❤️Dr. Finklestein always engaging and the argument and divisive culture of “wokeness” was equally insightful. We’re in a class struggle and all the Elites want to do is keep us divided on irrelevant minutiae 👏🏽👏🏽
Couldn’t agree more with your comment. Well said.
"Intellectuals and Society,"
Thomas Sowell
Read it.
It follows "The Culture of Narcissism,"
C. Laisch, 1979.
Freud predicted the Worldwide pandemics of Narcissistic Personality Disorders***
Replacing Neurosis as the
Dominant Mental illness of the
Developed Worlds Middle Class.
*** Secondary NARCISSISM, self destructive Narcissism.
What is wokeness? And when has this "culture" been inclusive to the point of "wokeness." has it divided?
@@rayw-martinez3555 IMO, wokeness is an awareness of others injustices. I agree with the concept. However, as an overriding ideology, it fragments a collective we are trying to win over especially working class whites (paltry wages in the advent of skyrocketing corporate profit), lack of housing (with thousands of units left sold and unoccupied), and universal health care (that would positively affect the majority of us). Personal affronts need to be dealt with but not at the expense of universal social justice. That’s why corporations love “woke” for their ad campaigns.
Eliminate the real culprit: corporatism.
ISDA rules the world.
World finance.
The $$$ 1.00 QUADRILLION
USA FDIC FHFA "Insurance Casino."
$$$ 100 Trillion in
Off shore ISDA trading " banks."
EXCELLENT discussion! Everyone had very good points. I particularly liked Dr Finkelstein. This is a different topic than the usual one he talks about, and it is great to see him smile a lot as the topic of "wokeness" can lead into such crazy turns. He is a formidable teacher, and is committed to students and audience learning which is shown as he clearly defines his points, repeats them, allows for thinking and following his thoughts and arguments. If professors were all like him, I would still be in school! Loved it. And it is obvious that this audience truly appreciates him and the points he is making in this appearance. Thank you for setting this up! Very enlightening.
❤ Norman Finkelstein❤️
Well put, most academics are nothing but careerists. Finkelstein is anything but, a real titan and a very compassionate guy too.
Sorry I missed the great Norm Finkelstein! I completely agree with you and thats why I will listen to any lecture or interview by Dr F. Grateful the TPL has posted this.
Indeed Prof Finkelstein has zero qualms when facing a popularly thought of as so brilliant but IMHO truly despicable as an educator but clearly the guy is a mountebank and whose name I have changed due to his extremist Zionist stance on Israel All-in-DEARTH-O-WITS
I LOVED the well known Waterloo video regarding 'crocodile tears' yet another reasonable stand from the good Dr Norman "...Because of what I learned from my parents, I refuse to use their sufferingand their martyrdom, to justify the torture , the brutalisation, the ,demolition of homes, that Israel daily commits against the Palestinians, so I refuse to be intimidated or browbeaten by the tears. If you had any heart in you, you'd be crying for the Palestinians,not.
...."
I had waited some time since learning the truth about this ongoing crime
I didn't understand or know about much until the Gaza Freedom Flotilla attack by Israel in May 2010, for someone to publically be outraged at these events, as there's a talk given and descriptions but and even books, but finally Dr Norman fulfilled by dreams of calling them out and on behalf of the Palestinians, and now Oct & a surprise? Young men never having lleft Gaza walls participated, went outside the walls of their prison but never having committed a crime, born into a pverty that was done to force suffering on them as a people,a slow genocide..
Thanks to Dr Finkelstein for the many appearnces currently and in agreement with him totally esp over Hamas&Nat Turner comparison. I am no anti-Semite, and the only way I know who is a Jewish person is if they announce it so, while at the same time when I know of comments demeaning others I often will call them out for what they are....bigoted, however the trans stuff harbors in me a source of ignorance as well as what my gender pronouns are etc. Respect does not require that I know all about details that I know nothing about? Seriously?
What is precisely wokeness?
Fantastic discussion. To hold one's own against Finkelstein is not an easy task, but Parenti was up to it. They both slayed. Thanks to Jeanne McGuire for her thoughtful commentary and the Toronto Public Library for hosting, as well.
Fantastic talk! Both Christian and Norman did a stellar job here.
Is Christian Michael Parentis son?
@@matthewstone1362Yes, he is.
@@matthewstone1362 Yes he is, and he is just as great as a historian and thinker.
Kudos to TPL!!! for having Dr Finklstein during these times and not cancelling him… Love Canada 🇨🇦 Proud Canadian 🇨🇦
I love Norman. I admire his convictions. I wish I could be like him an scholar and a great human being.
THANK YOU FOR NOT LETTING ESTABLISHMENT CANCEL HIM!!!
Immense respect for Prof. Finkelstein for speaking Truth and defending Palestinians at immense personal cost.
❤
He’s unfortunately wrong to say what Hamas did was fighting back when they kidnapped and killed kids. Whatever side of this one could possibly fall on kids are innocent and kidnapping kids is wrong.
Mr Finkelstein,i vote for you as the president since you are the most ethical person i have ever heard.
Great man, noble work. The Dr. never fails to deliver
So sad I missed Professor Finkelstein in Toronto. Really happy you hosted him.
Norman Finklestein a treasure of humanity
"I used to suffer from imposter syndrome.", says the spy.
The intellect of these people are beyond me.
I understood everything but it still holds true.
Great forum.
Reading Mr finkelstein's book of the same title of this video and the book, so far, is thought provoking and funny.
Michael Parenti's son and Norman Finkelstein on one stage?! BRING! IT! ON!
It was horrible to witness the President of U Penn stepping down. No one in media would speak out against it and totally caved to Israel's influence.
Excellent speech by Norman Finkelstein
What a JOY! To see Prof again 2 days consecutively. Looks 🔥🔥🔥 + this book is brilliant!!! Multitalented. 5AM in London, hope to watch this full later. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I’m a huge fan of Parenti and Finklestein, both top notch American intellectuals. They’re reminders of what the left once was and will be again
With Christian Parenti! In woke Canada. Great talk.
I'm saying this as an Atheist. I guarantee my brother could run circles intellectually, analytically, mathematically, etc. around most of that room, and he almost died twice for his "faith" as a Christian on the mission field for 2 years in the Congo, which was formerly Zaire. My dad never stepped foot on a college campus and yet was accepted into MENSA as a genius, but he stood in the shadow of my brother. My brother did attend college, earning his PhD. in Chemistry, a masters in mathematics, and 2 BS's. He holds 4 pattents on laboratory equipment, and they were using his works at his alma mater. He also was the prime author of the textbook "Chemometrics." That is merely scratching the surface of his capabilities, and I mention them only because those in academia can often be credential obsessed. I can say with supreme confidence that my brother is easily a genius. He does high-end math in his head. For fun, he reads books on logic with puzzles that have answers that seem impossible to arrive at. And yet, he believes in a god, angels, an afterlife, a virgin birth, etc. I don’t. In fact, I find it all absurd, and as a student of the social sciences, I tend to chalk belief systems up to the human need to conquer chaos, anxiety, and death, among other things. That being said, I am so eclipsed by my brother's genius that I sit in complete darkness next to him. I say that if an idea, no matter how absurd to the majority, is still brought up, it still merits debate. Intellect or academic credentials are not reasons to decide which topics are off the table. The mass formation of Covid certainly humbled many of us. I was an enormous hipocrite at the pandemic's onset for putting any faith in our government's healthcare agencies. After my sanity returned and the effects of mass formation began to fade, I felt as though I might as well had believed in leprechauns.
Thank you TPL for going through with this event!
Such an awesome academic encounter! Thank you for sharing!
This was such an EXCELLENT forum. The first gentleman did made yeomen’s work of a condensed origin story of woke critical politics (only failure is he did not name name’s -not like Elia Kazan BUT for people to reference.
And then Dr. Finkelstein close to knocked out the park. In particular his ending Q&A coda. Even after hearing over a dozen appearances of Norman recently & expecting “variations on a theme,” he no less gave a demonstration of a bespoke, idiosyncratic discourse on a topic that can funnel one into a sense of miming repetition.
Actually Im able to download this. Can watch it on the go. I LOVE that the ‘book circle’ (for want of a better term, think you know what I mean) are falling over themselves because of Norm + his latest BRILLIANCE.
Dr.Norman F. is a excellent speaker without any agenda for benefiting himself or have any hidden political agenda. He is Very good in speaking the TRUTH without hesitation for the benefits of whole humans living in the world. Which is so wonderful place to live together without any relgions, races, riches superiority. PEACE LOVE RESPECT IS TRUE SENSE FOR HAVINT A GOOD LIFE ALL TOGETHER.
Thank you so much for this video. It was very beneficial. Keep up the Great Work! Much appreciated!
To whomever at the TPL has arranged this, and the panel on Domenico Losurdo, thank you, you are doing great work, and the public is grateful.
Professor Finkelstein is a rare breed of a real intelectual, honest, dedicated, insightfull, meticulous, intelligent, ... I can never tire listening to him.
Excellent food for thought !
LOVE Dr. Finkelstein! 💜
Amazing. Thank you for bringing him on
I love Dr. Norman Finkelstein ❤️ ♥️ I love you!!!
I’m here only for Dr. Finklestein.❤
Thanks Prof Norman
Professor Finkelstein!! ❤❤❤
Best podcast! Thank you for this!
Parenti did an excellent job on summarizing ‘wokeness.’
I love dr Norman
wow what an excellent lecture :). Thank you TPL!!!
"They have the money and the power to enforce their demand. You do not have that money or power."
Dr. Finkelstein is 💯
Norman Finklestein might not have realized this, but he has immortalized himself in the history books as one of the few who stood up and spoke the truth in these times of deception. To stand for the truth when everyone around you is against you is the epitome of courage.
I agree with professor.Thank you
Very illustrative and useful to understand the current context in which we operate today faced with large trusts that seek to dominate our minds.
A very knowledgeable man…so much to learn from him. He speaks truth to power.
Prof Norman is GOLD… period !
Thank you-excellent!
Excellent talks and discussion
The world is becoming a complex place to live in. The leaders of all nations have acted in most irresponsible ways to add further complexity to our enigmatic coexistence.
Gratidão máxima Prof Norma ❤
Norm! Love seeing you!!
Amazing!
Was the Q&A with the audience not recorded?
Great discussion.
A shame that the audience Q&A was cut out.
This was a very complex discussion. Norman gave a very great talk, targeting the audience, while Christian gave a rapid monologue on the historical context. Norman’s talk and comments were more easily digestible, while Christian’s talk was filled with nuggets of historical significance. It appears the audience responded better to Norm’s talk than Christian’s. However; I would ask people to listen carefully to Christian’s points and (if they are interested) do a deeper dive into them.
I would have liked to hear more from Christian. Norm was absolutely brilliant, but I wish the moderator had given Christian more time to talk.
Christian Parenti gave a much more important presentation than Finkelstein, he really stuck with the topic of the discussion, while Norman did not.
Christian's "nuggets" were false equivalents, red herrings & strawmen. I do not know where to begin with his passionate stance on the effects of "wokeness" to cooling down mumbles of the distorted post-hoc history of "wokeness."
1. There's no ideological difference between the left and right. If so, paradigm transitions wouldn't have often occurred throughout history-- I'd call it musical chairs.
2. King was Assassinated due to "attacking economic exploitation." facing BLACKS due to integrating a "burning house" & his stance on the Vietnam war.
3. "universal class first politics" offers distinct benefits. How did the NEW DEAL pan out for AAs? GI Bill? HSA? Reading between the lines, "Do not leave white males out."
4. What is "wokeness"? Was the term not hijacked by white liberals & conservatives? Both utilize it for control.
5. Origins of Wokeness: The American NEW left was violently oppressed & coopted. Before Bacon's Rebellion, the difference, no, the definitive factor between enslaved people & identified servants, was based on religion, not race. 😂 and he brought in Anthony Johnson to solidify his stance. Haha.
@@lunaridge4510that was Hogwash.
Agree. Parenti's style of presentation was much less engaging but his content was very important. I was surprised that he ignored the intellectual origins of wokeness in postmodernism, but others have done that, and focusing on the CIA's exploitation of it teaches so much
Two inpiring speakers - the left is not dead with people like this.
Glad this quality talk is coming from Canada. Good to know there is this other side to the maple colony.
Enlightening and relevant.
Just heard that piece of work Douglas Murray go on a tirade using profane language and berserk completely wild accusations against Dr Finkelstein who like so many around the world respect
Murray has never been worse than now. I'd like to see them debate each other. Was this online?
An absolutely "SUPER DUPER" presentation
Thank you TPL for giving Norman this platform
Bravo Norman....
The right to deny others to decide the truth for themselves. 😮
Very informative and thought provoking.
Excellent
Norman Finkelstein❤❤👏👏
Perspectives of guests welcomed😊
Prof Finkelstein I wish this genius man was our president 🙏🏿
As a left-leaning Middle Eastern, it is hopeful for me to see such discussions. Over the past few years, we have become a joke because of the rise of the woke culture, many moderate people that I know started tilting more and more towards the right because of it. I've always equated the left with level-headedness, openness to discussion, maturity, and progress and we need all of that where I live yet that wasn't what the left at the time was focused on. I hope the left would ditch what drove it backward in the last decade or so and start course-correcting.
Absolutely right and even-handed, as far as I can tell. Kudos to Finkelstein.
Both speakers were amazing
What two beautiful men on this stage!!!
where is the question and answer?!
Wow. What a speaker
Norman Finkelstein. The people's Man of the Year. ✊
Muito bom !!!!
This was great, thank you
How would I have found out about this?
I am thankful that I lived in the same time as a giant like Norman Finkelstein.
Dear Professor Finkelstein, millions of people in the Middle East and around the world appreciate YOU and ALL you have done/do. You will never know the Ripple effects of all you have done, the Hope you have given, and the enormous difference YOU have made...
We are eternally grateful 💛
Does anyone know what podcast he is referring to in the end with Ecuador example?
This was mostly a good conversation. I liked Norman Finkelstein’s position even though I found parts of it challenging.
I think the question that needs to be answered is how do we move forward if we insist on relitigating the same questions over and over?
And I think that you can’t really have this conversation without framing it up by the right’s miserable culture war. It seems to me that this stuff is mostly a reaction to the culture war, not the driver.
As a panic disorder sufferer, I can relate to how many diagnoses suddenly became mainstream and people started to make them trendy, even when they didn't have them. It's how capitalism can take anything and make it profitable.