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Yes, as the system was running you saw the subcooling increase 3 degrees at the end. That was do to the indoor temp lowering from 70 to 68 but the subcooling was still high. You are correct in that you will have a slightly higher subcooling if the temp is down low inside so don't recover much in that circumstance. Always best to wait until it is above 70 inside and outside, thanks BP 27!
We don't use the sight glass for ac and heat pump systems because that just tells you that there is at least 1 degree of subcooling. They are used for refrigeration where at the highest heat load with the door open to the walk in box, the tech knows that there is at least 1 degree of subcooling while the receiver is just about drained, from there as the load decreases with the walk in door shut, the subcooling rises and subcooled liquid refrigerant that is not needed is stored in the receiver, thanks!
This has been something almost all techs (including myself) I know have been trying to figure out. Thank you this is extremely helpful. Good to see you getting in the camera too lol.
You've answered my question and its No, I can't test my AC charge in the winter. I wanted to test it due to it was low last summer and instead of waiting until it heats up, I wanted to check it out now and look into fix or replace. But I'll have to wait until it heats up. Excellent video.
AC Service Tech LLC Will the high side be able to pump the desired extra charge on its own into The recovery tank provided the bottle has a lower pressure ?
I wouldn't use the compressor to pump all of the refrigerant into the recovery bottle but just if the unit is overcharged. I would use a self contained recovery unit for that, thanks!
Love your videos man, just started HVAC school and won’t be messing with Heat Pumps for another semester or two. I always have more questions and can almost always find a video of yours or Greyfurnaceman for answers
Great Videos, Ty, I deal with Commercial Units a lot(Banks, etc.), and we would use a Condenser Fan Cycling Control are a Variable Control . These would Maintain your Press's., Then you could check your Sub Cool and Super Heat. If you Run into a Happy Home Owner that Likes there House Temp's. at Walk In Cooler Temp's., you could also add a Freeze stat on the Suction Line. But a Good Fall and Spring should get you thru Low Ambient Conditions.
Yeah this is just for small residential units without the permanent fan cycle control, but that is nice and works great for units that have a high indoor load from people and electronics that run in lower outdoor ambient conditions, thanks John!
I'll be interested in your confirming all this in the coming spring once it starts getting warm. It would be nice to save a call-back, but that looks like some real seat of the pants flying there, though sound theory, granted. Should work!
You would have to do it quick but when we are working on a heat pump in the winter, there is no choice other than the total weight method unless the manufacturer has given some type of charging specs for that particular unit. Always check the charge when it is above 70 inside and outside whenever possible and when doing pm's wait until the temp rises. Thanks for letting me know what you would like to see!
The subcooling will be just a few degrees higher checking this way than what it would be on an average spring day because of the lower indoor dry bulb and humidity level at this time. This system is however overcharged, thanks
New subscriber supporter I love your teaching.I bought your great book, I have a Mitsubishi Mini Split with 15’ to inside wall mount. IT ONLY HAS 1 service port outside access🙄 I used jacket at outside 60 degrees, but I probably need to put temp sensor inside unit next to high side port (closest to compressor) right?...to get proper reading. I would lose heat midway through winter till guy comes out to add refrigerant ( small leak ) After the last time he came out the following happened. I took my own readings just today in cool mode, Readings = low side pressure 155 lbs , temp close to outside port and temp probe is 55-60 degrees on cooling mode still It cools fine on low or high FAN IN HEATING MODE is fine with auto or low fan . But I turn fan on high a rattling sound starts quiet then gets louder and louder until I turn FAN DOWN or turn TEMP BACK DOWN. I’m guessing guy overcharged I have my own recovery tank, vacuum pump and gauges with temp probes t1 /t2 I know of the dry ice technique to recover also Lately it’s been 60-70 degrees but won’t last long Thanks in advance
Glad to see your face now. I've been following your channel for couple years. You really help me a lot. Thank you and keep the great work. I hope you could make some air distribution and balance video because I'm struggling with it, but I know it's very important to our trade.
Love the vids man. You've helped me out in a pinch many times before. Just moved out to milwaukee from California and was wondering if you could post more boiler vids?
Absolutely, even if you use this method to get a heat pump going, go back when there is a heat load for efficiency sake for the building owner, thanks Mike!
Hey, look at that. Finally getting in front of the camera! Well it's about time lol. Great video. I discovered your channel about 2 years ago. Thank you for all the great instruction. 👍 P.S. do something about that beard lol! 🤣
Hello I have been watching your videos since I got into hvac and I have a question. Can you do a video over how to charge a 1 phase condenser compared to a 2 phase condensing unit. I can not seem to find a video on it.
How about turning the heat on for a while until get a temperature increase inside the house before checking pressures if you don't have a jacket for the outdoor unit ?
Great informative video as always as you rarely see any info about checking a charge in the winter. Stay warm and happy holidays to you and your family! 😀👍
Should I do this every time I do a maintenance call or only if I suspect there to be a charge issue after checking the pressures / temperatures?I live in Washington so it’s always below 70 outside and I’m four months on the job out of trade school. Do a lot of heat pump maintenances
Does this method work for both a/c and h/p? I understand you can get charge level of txv systems with subcooling, but what is it was a piston? Do I go off superheat? And what mode do I test the h/p in with low ambient temp? Thanks!!!!
How would you do this on a Multizone Mini Split HP where it's not using a TXV or Orifice? Need to charge in cooling mode but it's too cold on the inside and not enough Freon to heat up the place enough. Should build up pressure by using the Bag on the outdoor fan motor or blanket on the coil?
For efficiency, yes but for heat pumps that need to be working we need to either use this or total weight method unless the manufacturer has supplied a charging guide for the particular unit, thanks!
If I had a 32 degree outdoor Temp, about 80 on suction pressure, 21 degree suction saturation, high side about 315 psi, outdoor metering device is a TXV. Indoor 73 Temp Would that seem normal. I had a unit that would lockout intermittently in heat mode due to pressure dropping so low. Other times pressures would drop very low but would stabilize to the readings I stated above. I was thinking TXV wasn’t opening up properly but now I am wondering if charge is low.
Hello. I’m Just know seeing the video and was wondering why can you only restrict airflow on txv when it’s cold outside and not on evaporators with a piston or tube? If there is a video already explaining this can someone send the link 🙏 I’m a new tech trying to learn as much as I can to be efficient. Thanks in advance.
This method is only for single or two speed units in second speed that have a txv metering device. You would use the total weight method for that in the winter, thanks
great video! just a quick question, how did you determine the saturated temperature to be between 90-100F? did you take the temperature you wanted to mimic i.e 70F outdoor temp and added 20-30F to determine the condenser saturated temperature?
Superheat in a piston system is set by the indoor air wet bulb vs the outdoor air temp. You can tell by the suction temp and pressure in the video there is no load in this house. In a piston system you would be running liquid back to the compressor. Hopefully the expansion valve will work properly and give you some compressor protection and time to work. We check piston systems all the time in low ambient conditions but honestly its far from ideal. Gives you a general idea but thats it. I wouldn't adjust charges during these conditions either unless there is a blatantly obvious problem.
j understood sir and thanks for the reply. I live in Colorado Springs and and spring AC tune ups are very difficult to perform here as indoor wet bulb temps are typically around 48 to 54 degrees. Indoor temps 68 to 70 degrees. Outdoor ambient, if your lucky and the condenser is on the South facing aspect of the home, may be in the low 70's. We restrict condenser airflow to drive the pressures up to simulate a warmer day, but do not adjust the charge under these conditions.
@@YTsux24-7 glad to see you're taking the wet bulb temp and are aware of the actual conditions. You get a feel for it after a while. Don't forget to document what you're finding. It allows you and other techs to get a feel for the unit even if you never get to see operating under normal conditions.
Hey Tomon8tor and Bill J, I have to say, great correspondence here and good in depth processing! Yeah I recommend that pm's should wait until there is a load on the house for the sake of efficiency for the building owner. This method will get you by in the winter to get close enough and the TXV will help to keep you safe but for efficiency, wait till there is a load on the house to check again or to do pm's thanks both of you!
@@acservicetechchannel Craig your email correspondence on cold weather AC tune ups helped me win an unemployment battle a couple years back after being fired. I am forever grateful.
Is it true as long as we have our sat temp for condenser coil at 90-105 degrees and a 70-74 degree indoor temp, then we are able to use this method? Given that our outdoor temp is below 70 degrees yet above 32 degrees outside? & what if our outdoor temp is above 70 degrees and we have a 70-74 degree heat load on the house? Would we then say we’re within manufacture specs and can then start diagnosing/checking readings for any possible issues? Also, was this a R410a or R22 system? Thank you I’m advance!
Yes to question 1, yes to question 2, and R-22 to question 3. For question #2, the closer you can get to a 95* outdoor day, the better. But have diagnosed many systems over the years at 70 or 75. Hope this helps, Jeff
Can you explain why you checked the unit when it was at 90 -105 degrees saturation temp on the high side? Why not 110 to 120 degrees / 250psi ? What saturation temp would i want it to be at if doing the same thing but with 410A? Thank you
Hey Mathew, that is why I spoke in saturated temperature and not pressure. You would use the same sat temp regardless of the air conditioner refrigerant. 90-105 degrees is what the manufacturers designed the equipment to run at. If you check the charge at a sat temp of 120 degrees then it would make the subcooling look high, thanks
Hey Matthew, the equipment I install in NJ state not to be installed in the southwest. The charging bag manufacturer gives pressures to measure before checking the charge that you must attain by opening or closing off the bag. When we check ac units that are 13 seer and higher, the sat temp always falls in that range unless it is abnormally hot outside.
There is a much lower wb indoor temp and the txv is able to hold the superheat fairly consistent. We check superheat while trying to determine a target superheat by reading the indoor wet bulb and outdoor dry bulb but we are restricting the outdoor units airflow to replicate a warmer day. We just don't know what the target superheat should really be, thanks!
Technically you could since they are after the coil in the case of a fan coil but no that is what I mean. You could run the electric strips to get the heat in the building up and then afterward, check the charge in ac mode, thanks Oscar!
I used to teach at the county school at the southern tip of NJ but now am trying to finish writing a Refrigerant Handling Book and just teaching online now, thanks
Jimbola77, would you be willing to write a quick 1 to 2 sentence testimonial in reference to my HVACR teaching ability online, questions answered, or the content that I have put out to date? I may display this under the book section, Q & A section or another section of my new the website. This new website, acservicetech.com should be up and running early next week. No hard feelings if you are unable to. I appreciate it! This could be replied here or emailed at info@acservicetech.com thanks a lot!
You can check the charge with digital or compound gauges, it was just easier to explain with the digital set. Basically, set the high side sat temp between 90-105 degrees and then check the charge with subcooling while monitoring if the low side sat temp is high enough, thanks Andy!
Todd you can. Just think about some things that may be different. 1) Maybe 2 fans or 4 fans like York Predator. 2) Pay attention to low side numbers closely if Trane flow-rators or any other non tev unit. 3) Be aware some types of units only have compressor discharge service valves not liquid line service valves. 4) Adjust only if seems grossly off or is really affecting performance, wait till warmer if you can or if you do adjust really try to come back when good outdoor temp. At work a MCC room may be running at 68 or 65 degrees and no heat is available except from VFD'S etc. Straight cool unit, no gas, no strips. So look at the situation and only do it today if it can't wait. 5) At work we would be much more apt to maybe check this way, but, not adjust this way (smaller units yes, larger 20 / 30 / 40 ton = not so much, to much fan cycling for shared condenser coils, or lead lag stuff, compressor unloading, etc). You can, but if this method showed a problem at work, would just jerk out the charge or almost all the charge and weight it back in, even if it's 15* outside because package units have a weight per circuit on label and that IS what it was designed with. I say almost all of it because if it does have a smaller leak somewhere you don't want to go negative and pull atmosphere in. Well this is getting long so I'll let you go. Hope this helps.
Sorry forgot one I really didn't want to forget. 6) A lot of times it may be more difficult to measure subcooling or superheat due to the fans blowing their air over your measuring device. So try to pick a place where you can avoid this and try to cover up your measuring device with armorflex, etc. Thanks, Jeff
There will still be enough moisture in the air to frost the fins and that will be like insulation covering the fins which will hinder heat transfer, thanks
If you think about it, heat pumps freeze as well and need a defrost mode during the winter at the outdoor coil. There is still moisture present, thanks
Appreciate your time and hard work on educating others with some of your knowledge. I just became a patreon. I didn't know how much more I needed to learn until I started watching your clips 6 months ago. My family and I appreciate your hard work and hope the monthly support will help you. Don't forget to enjoy your family, God bless.
Dylan, I just saw that and I appreciate your support! The videos do take a lot more time then people think along with the answering of each persons' questions on the videos so I appreciate you wanting to be involved! I am glad to hear you are enjoying the videos and learning more through each of them! I do try to be a good father and husband and watch my time carefully. I am actually heading to youth group at church soon to help out and may the Lord Bless You too! If you have questions on topics that come to mind, feel free to ask them at info@acservicetech.com or through the patreon.com/acservicetech messaging and obviously if I see them here, I will try my best to answer them, thanks a lot Dylan!
With this method, the subcooling will read a little higher than it would normally be in the summer but not that much just 3 or 4 degrees higher roughly. I would not suggest to go crazy with recovering. It is best to wait until it is above 70 inside and 70 outside to check the charge for efficiency. This system however is still somewhat overcharged, thanks Sean!
It would be too dangerous for the compressor to check the charge of a piston system without a heat load. You would just have saturated liquid entering the compressor, thanks!
Hey Craig , U mean with piston it would be liquid coming into compressor because the higher the pressure outside the more it pushes into piston and with no load inside thus no heat transfer to refrigerant it could run with low to no superheat , how ever on a txv system it should keel up some superheat and if it doesn’t we would need to look into airflow issues.
@@rickcantu4501 sounds exactly right. Higher hi side pressure = higher low side pressure for fixed orfice system and that pushes more flashed off liquid into the coil and without increasing the indoor air volume, but temp surely falling, s.h. will drop because the coil fills up farther than designed and they (not Craig) just can't trust everyone to control that, so they can't recommend it as a procedure with their product.
No reason to check ac in winter. If new install measure lineset weight in charge. Just as it says in manufacture instructions say verify charge in summer
Hey Mark, you are correct. Some systems are used on buildings that have a high heat load due to people, appliances, or electronics though. Also we have the problem of getting a close charge for existing heat pump systems and yes we also use the total weight method on new installations and also servicing as well, thanks
Unless the cardboard is thick, it cannot be used on the top due to it bending. It is not used on the sides because you will not get a correct saturated state across all the tubing. You more evenly distribute the air crossing all of the coils when partially blocking air at the top, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel Thank you. I've been watching and learning from your videos for about a year and I also purchased your book. I'm becoming a very skilled tech because of you. Thanks for responding and best of luck to you.
Totally mis-leaded information and could be led to refrigerant mis-charge and equipment damage. 12F sub-cooling on name plate is equipment factory design sub-cooling at 95F ambient and 73F indoor wet-bulb temperature. I didn't see author did put indoor wet-bulb temperature into account. The truth is, if indoor wet bulb or outdoor ambient temperature or both below equipment design temperature the sub-cooling going to increases, if above the sub-cooling will decrease. For example: at 80F ambient and 70F indoor wet bulb temperature the sub-cooling will be about 17.5F. The system is not overcharge for sure, do not remove the refrigerant.
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Yes, as the system was running you saw the subcooling increase 3 degrees at the end. That was do to the indoor temp lowering from 70 to 68 but the subcooling was still high. You are correct in that you will have a slightly higher subcooling if the temp is down low inside so don't recover much in that circumstance. Always best to wait until it is above 70 inside and outside, thanks BP 27!
Is it possible to charge it by the sight glass in the winter time too?
We don't use the sight glass for ac and heat pump systems because that just tells you that there is at least 1 degree of subcooling. They are used for refrigeration where at the highest heat load with the door open to the walk in box, the tech knows that there is at least 1 degree of subcooling while the receiver is just about drained, from there as the load decreases with the walk in door shut, the subcooling rises and subcooled liquid refrigerant that is not needed is stored in the receiver, thanks!
Maybe I will do a video on that at some point, thanks B Yenzer1!
Finding this channel was a life saver. The way that go over things truly helps me solve real-world problems with complete confidence. Thank you!!!
Thanks a lot Anthony!
Finally see my instructor face
Unbelievable
Ha ha, did you loose your appetite? Just kidding, thanks zafeli!
This has been something almost all techs (including myself) I know have been trying to figure out. Thank you this is extremely helpful. Good to see you getting in the camera too lol.
Thanks a lot Anthony!
Thanks for referring me to this guy bro!
Glad you enjoyed the video Jonathan!
hey this is like discovering the face of your radio DJ!!!
Ha ha, yeah with a face made for radio, thanks!
Thanks for sharing this, man. Very well explained, and do a great job of visually showing us the step by step process. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Duramus!
You've answered my question and its No, I can't test my AC charge in the winter. I wanted to test it due to it was low last summer and instead of waiting until it heats up, I wanted to check it out now and look into fix or replace. But I'll have to wait until it heats up. Excellent video.
Wow Craig , I was just thinking about how to check the charge on a heat pump in winter ❄️ yesterday !!!
Thanks for sharing and posting
Thanks Thomas!
AC Service Tech LLC Will the high side be able to pump the desired extra charge on its own into The recovery tank provided the bottle has a lower pressure ?
I wouldn't use the compressor to pump all of the refrigerant into the recovery bottle but just if the unit is overcharged. I would use a self contained recovery unit for that, thanks!
AC Service Tech LLC no of course or else there’s a change of damaging the compressor .
Thank you
Love your videos man, just started HVAC school and won’t be messing with Heat Pumps for another semester or two. I always have more questions and can almost always find a video of yours or Greyfurnaceman for answers
Thanks Ryan!
I’m learning a lot of your videos ! Thank you I appreciate you
You are so welcome
Great Videos, Ty, I deal with Commercial Units a lot(Banks, etc.), and we would use a Condenser Fan Cycling Control are a Variable Control . These would Maintain your Press's., Then you could check your Sub Cool and Super Heat. If you Run into a Happy Home Owner that Likes there House Temp's. at Walk In Cooler Temp's., you could also add a Freeze stat on the Suction Line. But a Good Fall and Spring should get you thru Low Ambient Conditions.
Yeah this is just for small residential units without the permanent fan cycle control, but that is nice and works great for units that have a high indoor load from people and electronics that run in lower outdoor ambient conditions, thanks John!
You have some quality man, love your videos! Much love from Indiana 🤙🏼
Thanks Josh!
I'll be interested in your confirming all this in the coming spring once it starts getting warm. It would be nice to save a call-back, but that looks like some real seat of the pants flying there, though sound theory, granted. Should work!
You would have to do it quick but when we are working on a heat pump in the winter, there is no choice other than the total weight method unless the manufacturer has given some type of charging specs for that particular unit. Always check the charge when it is above 70 inside and outside whenever possible and when doing pm's wait until the temp rises. Thanks for letting me know what you would like to see!
The subcooling will be just a few degrees higher checking this way than what it would be on an average spring day because of the lower indoor dry bulb and humidity level at this time. This system is however overcharged, thanks
Your videos are always useful and informative, this one in particular.
New subscriber supporter I love your teaching.I bought your great book,
I have a Mitsubishi Mini Split with 15’ to inside wall mount. IT ONLY HAS 1 service port outside access🙄
I used jacket at outside 60 degrees, but I probably need to put temp sensor inside unit next to high side port (closest to compressor) right?...to get proper reading.
I would lose heat midway through winter till guy comes out to add refrigerant ( small leak )
After the last time he came out the following happened.
I took my own readings just today in cool mode,
Readings = low side pressure 155 lbs
, temp close to outside port and temp probe is 55-60 degrees on cooling mode still
It cools fine on low or high FAN
IN HEATING MODE is fine with auto or low fan . But I turn fan on high a rattling sound starts quiet then gets louder and louder until I turn FAN DOWN or turn TEMP BACK DOWN.
I’m guessing guy overcharged
I have my own recovery tank, vacuum pump and gauges with temp probes t1 /t2
I know of the dry ice technique to recover also
Lately it’s been 60-70 degrees but won’t last long
Thanks in advance
Glad to see your face now. I've been following your channel for couple years. You really help me a lot. Thank you and keep the great work. I hope you could make some air distribution and balance video because I'm struggling with it, but I know it's very important to our trade.
I plan to after I get the book out, thanks!
Love the vids man. You've helped me out in a pinch many times before. Just moved out to milwaukee from California and was wondering if you could post more boiler vids?
HVAC Tec, thanks for letting me know what you would like to see. I have a queue of videos still in the pike but I will keep that in mind, thanks!
Once again great video. Good to see your face.
Ha ha, thanks deanmartin1966!
Ideally check the cooling when there's a load in the building with a TXV
Absolutely, even if you use this method to get a heat pump going, go back when there is a heat load for efficiency sake for the building owner, thanks Mike!
Thank you first time i saw it done
Thanks ejohnfall!
Why not turn on the auxiliary heat so as not to remove heat from the building so quickly? Nice video!
Thank you for showing this to us
Put a garbage bag around the condenser works just as well
Hey, look at that. Finally getting in front of the camera! Well it's about time lol. Great video. I discovered your channel about 2 years ago. Thank you for all the great instruction. 👍
P.S. do something about that beard lol! 🤣
Do you mean like grow it out and braid it? ha ha, thanks G. Martinez!
I mean like either grow it out or shave it. Either do, or do not. There is no try. 😂
Ha ha, thanks!
But stay in front of the camera a little on each video. It's much better. 👍
I bought your book! Great buy! Good work!
Thanks a lot Blue Collar!
Hello I have been watching your videos since I got into hvac and I have a question. Can you do a video over how to charge a 1 phase condenser compared to a 2 phase condensing unit. I can not seem to find a video on it.
How about turning the heat on for a while until get a temperature increase inside the house before checking pressures if you don't have a jacket for the outdoor unit ?
Great informative video as always as you rarely see any info about checking a charge in the winter. Stay warm and happy holidays to you and your family! 😀👍
Thank you very much Stuzman!
Another great video
Thanks Channel Cat Chaser!
Great detailed explanation
Thanks Kenny!
Thank you sir. Much appreciated👍
Thanks Moises!
Should I do this every time I do a maintenance call or only if I suspect there to be a charge issue after checking the pressures / temperatures?I live in Washington so it’s always below 70 outside and I’m four months on the job out of trade school. Do a lot of heat pump maintenances
Excelente extraordinario muy bien explicado mil gracias❤
Thanks. I’ve been looking for a video like this.
Thanks Julius!
Exactly me 2. In the winter time I really didn't know how to measure charge. Thanks alot
Thanks Ace!
Once again good video. I thank you very much.
Thank you very much Ray Ray, I always appreciate your comments!
Good video.
Thanks Chad!
Excellent video💯👌🏾
Thanks Michael Rogers!
Sure with all due respect what are you to do more stuff with 410a r 22 is history thank you
Well Done!!!!Thanks!!!!
Thanks Xtreme!
AC Service Tech LLC Thank You for the Knowledge!!You are very much Appreciated!!Happy Holidays to you and Family🎄
Thanks, you as well!
Does this method work for both a/c and h/p?
I understand you can get charge level of txv systems with subcooling, but what is it was a piston? Do I go off superheat?
And what mode do I test the h/p in with low ambient temp?
Thanks!!!!
How would you do this on a Multizone Mini Split HP where it's not using a TXV or Orifice? Need to charge in cooling mode but it's too cold on the inside and not enough Freon to heat up the place enough. Should build up pressure by using the Bag on the outdoor fan motor or blanket on the coil?
On the heat mode are you charging system r410a via low suction line ? In the winter when heat pump low on charge.
Thanks !
so could we just turn the condenser fan off in the winter to keep the discharge pressure at a good level?
Just go back in the summer and check the charge.
For efficiency, yes but for heat pumps that need to be working we need to either use this or total weight method unless the manufacturer has supplied a charging guide for the particular unit, thanks!
great video
Thanks Juan!
Maybe I have a stupid question, but can I also charge via the red hose instead the yellow? I would like to recover via yellow and fill via red.
How can I get some more training. Please recommend me.
Thank you
If I had a 32 degree outdoor Temp, about 80 on suction pressure, 21 degree suction saturation, high side about 315 psi, outdoor metering device is a TXV. Indoor 73 Temp Would that seem normal. I had a unit that would lockout intermittently in heat mode due to pressure dropping so low. Other times pressures would drop very low but would stabilize to the readings I stated above. I was thinking TXV wasn’t opening up properly but now I am wondering if charge is low.
Does Freon control heat and cold but cutting on but not working low Freon ?
Could you do a video of a list of tools for beginners. I'm trying to get an estimate. Thanks
Hey Da Man, I have a video on that. Look up "acservicetech beginner tool list" thanks
Also, I have a variety of tools listed at amazon.com/shop/acservicetech thanks
Hello. I’m Just know seeing the video and was wondering why can you only restrict airflow on txv when it’s cold outside and not on evaporators with a piston or tube? If there is a video already explaining this can someone send the link 🙏 I’m a new tech trying to learn as much as I can to be efficient. Thanks in advance.
Is this done in cooling or heating mode
Hi MR
Thanks for your help but I it will be the same for 410A piston system and did you work with Fujitsu brand
Thanks
This method is only for single or two speed units in second speed that have a txv metering device. You would use the total weight method for that in the winter, thanks
If the line are 75 feet or more, do you take your subcool from inside?
great video! just a quick question, how did you determine the saturated temperature to be between 90-100F? did you take the temperature you wanted to mimic i.e 70F outdoor temp and added 20-30F to determine the condenser saturated temperature?
you also mentioned this is to be used on a TXV system, would this not work with a fixed orifice?
@@valcao9844 I have the same question if this will work with a fixed orfice.
Hey Craig.
Why do you not recommend checking the refrigerant charge with a charging jacket on a piston system?
Thanks, Tom
Superheat in a piston system is set by the indoor air wet bulb vs the outdoor air temp. You can tell by the suction temp and pressure in the video there is no load in this house. In a piston system you would be running liquid back to the compressor. Hopefully the expansion valve will work properly and give you some compressor protection and time to work. We check piston systems all the time in low ambient conditions but honestly its far from ideal. Gives you a general idea but thats it. I wouldn't adjust charges during these conditions either unless there is a blatantly obvious problem.
j understood sir and thanks for the reply.
I live in Colorado Springs and and spring AC tune ups are very difficult to perform here as indoor wet bulb temps are typically around 48 to 54 degrees. Indoor temps 68 to 70 degrees. Outdoor ambient, if your lucky and the condenser is on the South facing aspect of the home, may be in the low 70's.
We restrict condenser airflow to drive the pressures up to simulate a warmer day, but do not adjust the charge under these conditions.
@@YTsux24-7 glad to see you're taking the wet bulb temp and are aware of the actual conditions. You get a feel for it after a while. Don't forget to document what you're finding. It allows you and other techs to get a feel for the unit even if you never get to see operating under normal conditions.
Hey Tomon8tor and Bill J, I have to say, great correspondence here and good in depth processing! Yeah I recommend that pm's should wait until there is a load on the house for the sake of efficiency for the building owner. This method will get you by in the winter to get close enough and the TXV will help to keep you safe but for efficiency, wait till there is a load on the house to check again or to do pm's thanks both of you!
@@acservicetechchannel
Craig your email correspondence on cold weather AC tune ups helped me win an unemployment battle a couple years back after being fired.
I am forever grateful.
Is it true as long as we have our sat temp for condenser coil at 90-105 degrees and a 70-74 degree indoor temp, then we are able to use this method? Given that our outdoor temp is below 70 degrees yet above 32 degrees outside?
& what if our outdoor temp is above 70 degrees and we have a 70-74 degree heat load on the house? Would we then say we’re within manufacture specs and can then start diagnosing/checking readings for any possible issues?
Also, was this a R410a or R22 system? Thank you I’m advance!
Yes to question 1, yes to question 2, and R-22 to question 3.
For question #2, the closer you can get to a 95* outdoor day, the better. But have diagnosed many systems over the years at 70 or 75.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
Hvac-talk forum must be fuming over this 🤣
Bunch of sumg little Karens over there.
thank you ...
Thanks!
Can you explain why you checked the unit when it was at 90 -105 degrees saturation temp on the high side? Why not 110 to 120 degrees / 250psi ? What saturation temp would i want it to be at if doing the same thing but with 410A? Thank you
Hey Mathew, that is why I spoke in saturated temperature and not pressure. You would use the same sat temp regardless of the air conditioner refrigerant. 90-105 degrees is what the manufacturers designed the equipment to run at. If you check the charge at a sat temp of 120 degrees then it would make the subcooling look high, thanks
@@acservicetechchannel
How did you know that the manufacturers designed the equipment to run at 90 to 105 degreees saturation temp?
Hey Matthew, the equipment I install in NJ state not to be installed in the southwest. The charging bag manufacturer gives pressures to measure before checking the charge that you must attain by opening or closing off the bag. When we check ac units that are 13 seer and higher, the sat temp always falls in that range unless it is abnormally hot outside.
Why can't you use this for fixed metering device systems?
So what if your return air temp is 64F, basement home, that will throw off the whole thing, anyone can block a condenser,
How about checking it at 32deg with frost on coils
Wouldnt it help to run the heat and bring the indoor temp up to 75+ degrees before starting the procedure ?
Yes it certainly would but if we don't have a furnace or electric strip heating then we don't have a choice, thanks!
Why can this only be done with a TXV and not a fixed orfice?
There is a much lower wb indoor temp and the txv is able to hold the superheat fairly consistent. We check superheat while trying to determine a target superheat by reading the indoor wet bulb and outdoor dry bulb but we are restricting the outdoor units airflow to replicate a warmer day. We just don't know what the target superheat should really be, thanks!
could you run heating strips at the same time when charging; to add some heat load?.........
Technically you could since they are after the coil in the case of a fan coil but no that is what I mean. You could run the electric strips to get the heat in the building up and then afterward, check the charge in ac mode, thanks Oscar!
hey, partner where do you teach at? id love to attend your classes.
I used to teach at the county school at the southern tip of NJ but now am trying to finish writing a Refrigerant Handling Book and just teaching online now, thanks
Jimbola77, would you be willing to write a quick 1 to 2 sentence testimonial in reference to my HVACR teaching ability online, questions answered, or the content that I have put out to date? I may display this under the book section, Q & A section or another section of my new the website. This new website, acservicetech.com should be up and running early next week. No hard feelings if you are unable to. I appreciate it! This could be replied here or emailed at info@acservicetech.com thanks a lot!
Why can't you check/adjust the charge in heat mode?
Was this check in ac mode not in heat mode correct
Yes in cooling mode with a txv, thanks
Is this the only way to check what if you don’t have digital gauges
You can check the charge with digital or compound gauges, it was just easier to explain with the digital set. Basically, set the high side sat temp between 90-105 degrees and then check the charge with subcooling while monitoring if the low side sat temp is high enough, thanks Andy!
🙏
Would you use the same procedure for a package rooftop unit?
Todd you can. Just think about some things that may be different.
1) Maybe 2 fans or 4 fans like York Predator.
2) Pay attention to low side numbers closely if Trane flow-rators or any other non tev unit.
3) Be aware some types of units only have compressor discharge service valves not liquid line service valves.
4) Adjust only if seems grossly off or is really affecting performance, wait till warmer if you can or if you do adjust really try to come back when good outdoor temp. At work a MCC room may be running at 68 or 65 degrees and no heat is available except from VFD'S etc. Straight cool unit, no gas, no strips. So look at the situation and only do it today if it can't wait.
5) At work we would be much more apt to maybe check this way, but, not adjust this way (smaller units yes, larger 20 / 30 / 40 ton = not so much, to much fan cycling for shared condenser coils, or lead lag stuff, compressor unloading, etc). You can, but if this method showed a problem at work, would just jerk out the charge or almost all the charge and weight it back in, even if it's 15* outside because package units have a weight per circuit on label and that IS what it was designed with. I say almost all of it because if it does have a smaller leak somewhere you don't want to go negative and pull atmosphere in.
Well this is getting long so I'll let you go.
Hope this helps.
Sorry forgot one I really didn't want to forget.
6) A lot of times it may be more difficult to measure subcooling or superheat due to the fans blowing their air over your measuring device. So try to pick a place where you can avoid this and try to cover up your measuring device with armorflex, etc.
Thanks,
Jeff
How does the evaporator coil freeze if there is no moisture in the air ? Indoor temp I'm referring to
There will still be enough moisture in the air to frost the fins and that will be like insulation covering the fins which will hinder heat transfer, thanks
If you think about it, heat pumps freeze as well and need a defrost mode during the winter at the outdoor coil. There is still moisture present, thanks
That only applies to units with a txv?
Yes, do to the TXV keeping the superheat consistent and keeps the compressor safe in a low indoor heat situation, thanks!
How would you check charges on units using a fixed orifice when it is below 70 degrees outside?
Can you do the same video with 410a please thanks
I will keep that in mind Victor, thanks for letting me know what you would like to see!
Temp are always the same only pressures change with different refrigerants. Use a pt chart and you good to go
Does the 90-105 rule work for all refrigerants?
Yes 90 to 105 sat temp on high side for air conditioners regardless of the refrigerant as long as a txv is the active metering device, thanks
Appreciate your time and hard work on educating others with some of your knowledge. I just became a patreon. I didn't know how much more I needed to learn until I started watching your clips 6 months ago. My family and I appreciate your hard work and hope the monthly support will help you. Don't forget to enjoy your family, God bless.
Dylan, I just saw that and I appreciate your support! The videos do take a lot more time then people think along with the answering of each persons' questions on the videos so I appreciate you wanting to be involved! I am glad to hear you are enjoying the videos and learning more through each of them! I do try to be a good father and husband and watch my time carefully. I am actually heading to youth group at church soon to help out and may the Lord Bless You too! If you have questions on topics that come to mind, feel free to ask them at info@acservicetech.com or through the patreon.com/acservicetech messaging and obviously if I see them here, I will try my best to answer them, thanks a lot Dylan!
It will be under charged in the summer.
With this method, the subcooling will read a little higher than it would normally be in the summer but not that much just 3 or 4 degrees higher roughly. I would not suggest to go crazy with recovering. It is best to wait until it is above 70 inside and 70 outside to check the charge for efficiency. This system however is still somewhat overcharged, thanks Sean!
What about a system with a piston ?
It would be too dangerous for the compressor to check the charge of a piston system without a heat load. You would just have saturated liquid entering the compressor, thanks!
Hey Craig , U mean with piston it would be liquid coming into compressor because the higher the pressure outside the more it pushes into piston and with no load inside thus no heat transfer to refrigerant it could run with low to no superheat , how ever on a txv system it should keel up some superheat and if it doesn’t we would need to look into airflow issues.
@@rickcantu4501 sounds exactly right. Higher hi side pressure = higher low side pressure for fixed orfice system and that pushes more flashed off liquid into the coil and without increasing the indoor air volume, but temp surely falling, s.h. will drop because the coil fills up farther than designed and they (not Craig) just can't trust everyone to control that, so they can't recommend it as a procedure with their product.
No reason to check ac in winter. If new install measure lineset weight in charge. Just as it says in manufacture instructions say verify charge in summer
Hey Mark, you are correct. Some systems are used on buildings that have a high heat load due to people, appliances, or electronics though. Also we have the problem of getting a close charge for existing heat pump systems and yes we also use the total weight method on new installations and also servicing as well, thanks
Yeah, Mark! Ya NOOB!
Even in summer it gets cold in northern states in higher elevation. Gotta charge AC regardless.
Why couldn't you use card board
Unless the cardboard is thick, it cannot be used on the top due to it bending. It is not used on the sides because you will not get a correct saturated state across all the tubing. You more evenly distribute the air crossing all of the coils when partially blocking air at the top, thanks!
At what point do you realize you're getting the most accurate reading and why?
When you are stabilized at 95 to 105 degree sat temp for a few min and the indoor temp is still above 70 degrees, thanks
@@acservicetechchannel Thank you. I've been watching and learning from your videos for about a year and I also purchased your book. I'm becoming a very skilled tech because of you. Thanks for responding and best of luck to you.
From india i have 9 year experience pls help me
Totally mis-leaded information and could be led to refrigerant mis-charge and equipment damage. 12F sub-cooling on name plate is equipment factory design sub-cooling at 95F ambient and 73F indoor wet-bulb temperature. I didn't see author did put indoor wet-bulb temperature into account. The truth is, if indoor wet bulb or outdoor ambient temperature or both below equipment design temperature the sub-cooling going to increases, if above the sub-cooling will decrease.
For example: at 80F ambient and 70F indoor wet bulb temperature the sub-cooling will be about 17.5F.
The system is not overcharge for sure, do not remove the refrigerant.
I need job
N.v
This ain’t a heat pump