Hawkeye - 1x3 Echoes - Group Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Kate and Clint breakout of Maya and the Tracksuit Mafia's hideout in an exciting and chase-scene fueled episode of Hawkeye! The Normies review and discuss Season 1 Episode 3 after the reaction!
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#DisneyPlus #MCU #Hawkeye
*Kate locks herself in a car while surrounded by thugs who easily smash windows to get in, leads said thugs to her apartment where her name is on the buzzer, crashes through the glass ceiling and is easily captured*
Everyone: I just don’t like how she’s soo perfect. Like, she needs to have an arc y’know?
*She does a back flip*
"She's sush a Mary sue".
This is her arc, she’s not perfect. People just like the characters, not a crime
Let it go. Geez. They apologized 😔
She’s an 18 year old kid who has only even trained/competed in tournaments going up against multiple fully grown men. She’s obviously not gonna think rationally when getting fucked up by big Russian dudes with no real escape route because she’s hurting and they have cars. She’s skilled but she doesn’t really realise the life that she jumped into when she wore the Ronnan outfit
wonder how many dislikes if youtube doesnt hide this video
Kate jumped in the traffic to save a dog. They did that to show us what a good human being she is. Marketa : "she is not a very good person, she is very selfish" 🤦🏽🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♂️
I know right? Her and Chris give the worst commentary.
yeah wtf
You guys still don't quite get what a Mary Sue is. If Kate was a Mary Sue, she would have RESCUED Hawkeye in that moment all while doing backflips and the guys in the tracksuit mafia admire her totally unique hair and eyes instead of falling on her face for Comedic purposes. If you guys had simply said "I wish we got to see the training montage in real footage instead of just in the intro sequence," you'd be saying the same thing you are trying to say without the hate.
What I sort of like about Kate is that she’s good…but not that good.
She’s achieved a lot in her life that she made her a decent matchup, but you feel less power due to her naïveté in hero fighting.
It shows that someone with that much skill isn’t properly close to Hawkeye level, with Katie being the talented rookie while Hawkeye is the veteran.
You don't know what Mary Sue means either.
@@chesteradams7423 what is it then by your own definition?
@@chesteradams7423 And you don't know how to make your account not look like a bot.
Also, they absolutely sidestepped the history of using the term "Mary Sue" to label basically every female character who shows any talent for anythign regardless of training, while at the same time male characters are allowed to have said talents. Like, nobody ever worried about James Bond being a Mary Sue, even though he totally is (if you use the term correctly and not just as a shortcut for "I can't believe that a character has any abilities" or "I think a character is too talented").
It's weird to see Kate called "not a good person"?? She's not BAD, she's just a kid who grew up filthy rich, spoiled, and is really good at several martial skills she's dedicated years of study to. She's probably not used to failure, she's cocky, things generally go her way in life, but that doesn't mean she's a bad person. She's got lots of skill but not a lot of real life experience to temper it with, which is 100% what Clint is here to teach her.
exactly, well said...
Is like tony before the explosion, she will have a hit of reality in the show to make her grow up
@@Joloki or Peter or Scott or Thor or all the other over confident and or criminal Marvel heroes. Not to mention Loki who attempted genocide and people manage to set that aside to enjoy his series.
Exactly, in the comics she wants to start a west coast Avengers and they forbid her until Hawkeye convinces them.
When did they say she's a bad person?
Like Clint, Kate has no powers but we’re expected to believe she becomes a super hero. For that to work have to accept like Clint that she’s a prodigy, not super human, but way better than a normal person would be. Not a Mary Sue, but an exceptional person that keeps up with supers. It’s why she was one of the breakout characters of the Young Avengers.
Suraj is complaining about stuff they've shown already. Marketa said it, you guys missed it when they showed her progression.
suraj literally misses everything the dude's head is in the clouds
Which things is he complaining about that they've shown before?
@@TheKannibalistic again which things did they miss?
If you are able to “miss” a characters “progression” that probably means it’s rushed and unbelievable
Sorry everyone, I will do better next react - Suraj
For me this is a 10/10 episode. It has everything I wanted from the show as promised by the trailers
Clint validating that Kate calls herself the greatest archer is genuine, considering she made perfect shots under high pressure, on moving targets, from a moving car, with Clint's left handed bow (she's right handed)
Y’all’s hatred for Kate is so weird 😭
Bruh it’s like when they watched the wire and hated Avon
It's legitimately gross at this point
It's legitimately gross at this point.
It's gross
wonder how many dislikes if youtube doesnt hide this
So you guys are completely missing the point with Kate, huh? 😂
Just a little buf over time they will understand her I find her overconfidence funny not rage Inducing tho
@@coolwoop I hope so. It would also help if they had paid attention to the first episode, they missed a lot about the tone of the show and Kate's character. Also, I'm still watching the reaction but I hope they caught that possible reference to the Kingpin
Lets face it, they ALWAYS miss the point. They've turned that into a fine art.....
Anybody else find it funny how the way they keep talking about how they feel about Kate Bishop, is literally how seemingly everybody watching these reactions is feeling about them
Dont worry guys. They learned a new term 'Mary Sue' and now are trying to use it in Hawkeye.Its their word of the week.
😂😂😂
Just me or have these reactions felt I guess….. awkward? Idk maybe just me 🤷🏻♂️
watch they make a new skit next week just to make fun of people that pointed out their mistake
While of course using it wrong like pretty much everyone else who uses it.
@@jediidawn4543 they’re doing it for views
“More cookie please thank you” is probably a sentence he was working on with his son.
Yeah XD I thought at first he was being glib to look confident but he doesn't need to really
The Kate hate is so annoying. You'd think after 5+ years of experience reacting to TV shows, some of y'all would have some critical thinking skills. So weird.
The reaction to Kate's character is hilarious. She's basically Clint from the comics (rich upbringing, overconfident, impulsive) and people hate her.
Exactly! It’s actually why I love Comic Clint
The nor Ines are the only people I’ve seen react negatively to her
Shes alredi my fav mcu female
Good point
Wait when has Clint ever had a rich upbringing? Didn't he have a shit childhood?
So is Captain America a mary sue because he somehow gained expert fighting and hand to hand combat skills with zero training? Or he somehow became an expert military strategist with zero training? Just wondering. Because the super serum sure as shit didn't give him those.
"They fully repaired this place?" To be fair, that was 12 years ago in this universe.
These guys are really struggling
So sorry a character as great as Kate Bishop rubbed some of you the wrong way. If only some of you can get past your initial reception of the character.
I honestly can't understand the hate you guys have towards Kate, like... the reasons you guys are giving aren't even real?? I mean, they are reasonable? if it weren't for the fact that all of them are based on something already explained on the show or disproven in the show too so like... i don't know, I really enjoy your reactions but this one thing really caught me off guard.
What hate?
Kate is only Naive, cocky, and unexperienced with the real world. But she is very much skilled, and you can see her dozens of trophies all over her place that are overflowing.
Kinda weird how you can't believe she could fight 4 normal thugs. But are perfectly fine with Black Widow fighting dozens of other Black Widows who have the exact training as her and older than Kate, more experience, and real killers/assassins.
Natasha is amongst the oldest and most experienced of all the Black Widows and she was already special amongst them even before she joined SHIELD. Since joining SHIELD and later the Avengers she'd gained a ton more experience.
@@sammykent5752 People forgot that Kate Bishop is still young and expecting her to be like what a powerful flawless fighter, and no she did not go through the same other experience like training to be a shield and is not a spy assassin, I guess the Normies and John Campea are missing the point. However I rather choose Kate Bishop because she has a cute adorable personality and has spunk and urban wit, rather than having a bland serious one
@@tovolume nobody's expecting her to be a flawless fighter. What people want is literally the opposite. They want to see her develop as a hero. Also who is John Campea?
@@sammykent5752 Which is what we are getting in this show, the problem is people are so impatient and almost kind of spoiled expecting something to happen immediately, I thought the first two episodes did great in introducing Kate Bishop and her origin, it sets up nicely and in episode 3 they stepped up the dynamic relationship
@@tovolume nobody's impatient. Y'all are just whining because Chris said "a bit of a Mary Sue" and acting so sensitive because people are pointing out flaws in Kate or are not as enamoured with her as you are.
The fact that y'all keep getting Kate wrong after 3 episodes is just ridiculous
THEYRE IDIOTS JUST UNSUBSCRIBE THATS WHAT I DID
"It's when you have absolutely no training." NO, that is NOT the definition of a mary sue. And so many people have conflated this term to mean that. A mary sue is a wish-fulfillment character, sometimes a self-insert, but not always. A mary sue is a character in the story that is presented as the center of the universe - everything is about them and everything revolves around them. Said character can produce several cases of bad writing:
1) Underdeveloped side characters and antagonists.
2) All goals and conversations center around the character (even when they aren't in the scene).
3) Wish-fulfillment often means the character has no flaws, and therefore won't struggle (neither internally or externally), because in this universe that revolves around them, everything always works out for them.
Notice I said nothing about training, skills, talent, gender, growth, or any other label that people from both sides of this argument often use as a talking point. Because all of these appear in cases of mary sues and non-mary sues. You can have someone who has loads of talent, you can have someone who never grows, you can have someone who is a fast learner, you can have someone who is a woman, and none of these examples alone automatically make the character a mary sue. People always discuss the symptoms, but never the root issue - that is, making this character the center of the universe.
All that to say, Kate Bishop is not a mary sue.
Yeah, the term Mary Sue has been misused so much that it has lost any and all meaning and now pretty much is used whenever a new character is good at anything. Kate has a mixture of qualities and flaws that immediately disqualify her from being a Mary Sue.
Well, they missed the opening song in ep 1. Of coz they said she's a Mary Sue. Sometimes they missed very important clue and dialog
@@MrLador Specifically, a new FEMALE character. I didn't see anyone calling Sam a Mary Sue (or a Marty Stu) when he was introduced in Winter Soldier. Male characters get to be skillful/powerful/heroic without question, female characters are Mary Sue's if they do well at all.
@@zamhobby9662 they didn't miss the opening
@@JenniferKlumpp he was a trained spec ops soldier? Why would he be called a Mary Sue or Gary Stu?
There definitely IS a sense of Misogyny lmao, it's the double standards and needing every little thing to be justified because she's a woman for me
Maybe they just don’t like the character. Some people are just not into certain characters and nitpick/ make fun of said character. It’s not smart or a good, but it doesn’t mean it’s misogynistic just because it’s a girl
The hatred for Kate is baffling to me. There are literally the only reactors who don't like her for some odd reason.
Kate literally keeps getting her ass kicked. And she trained in archery since she was young because Hawkeye was her role model, so of course she would be good at it. She also did fencing. She trained; she didn't just magically know how to do this because she already knew.
These guys are seriously some of the only people I’ve seen that seem to hate Kate and I don’t know if I can keep watching these reactions if that keeps going. I just feel like they complain about stuff that they have explained in the show... I mean you see
2 martial arts scenes with Maya and she’s a bad*ss (and she is) but they show and say multiple times how skilled Kate is and she’s a Mary Sue (even though she has messed up multiple times in the show). It just gets old. I just feel like they made up their mind about her in the first episode and not giving the character a chance and seeing how it plays out in the show. I still like you guys other reactions, but this one just isn’t as enjoyable. And I’m not saying y’all have to love everything you watch (I know I don’t), but it’s just not as fun to watch other people watch something you enjoy and then not seeming to like it
They're very poor at observation full stop imo.
I also don't like the character (yet), get over it, if you watch reactions for people to agree with you then watch yourself on the mirror.
@@YoureRightIThink Yeah, yeah, we know sweetie...lol
@@Silver-rx1mh ¿? Ok kid..
@@YoureRightIThink "Kid?" I'm 64 years of age hon. lol
It kinda rubbed me the wrong way how many negative comments y’all were making about Kate, I think she’s an amazing character and I don’t see her as selfish or a bad person AT ALL, she’s overconfident and a bit cocky as clint points out but it’s part of her personality and that doesn’t make her a bad person, plus, that’s the interesting part about her and that will eventually make his journey as a “heroe” more interesting, cause she already has the skills but will have to work her way around the more human and humble side of being powerful!
It’s kinda lame how y’all are trying to bring her down or shame her abilities, in the pilot they showed how prepared and educated she has been since she was little, she IS skilled and y’all shouldn’t be trying to doubt what she’s capable of doing or achieving, can’t a girl be skilled, prepared and confident at the same time? come on
Maybe actually pay attention to what they were complaining about? It was a specific thing they were talking about, not her archery skills.
Let it go. Geez. They apologized 😔
Jesus Christ relax.this nigga wrote a whole essay 😂
@@sammykent5752 then If I may ask what are they complaining about? I honestly can't tell since they keep jumping to conclusions and being strangely judgemental over literally nothing.
@@calvintyler9281 they specifically complained about the decent where she's shrugging blows from dudes larger than her like it's nothing. That's it.
Kate is NOT a Mary Sue by any means. Also, you guys didn’t notice Uncle ? 👀👀
I personally think Kate is one of the only post-Endgame non-Spiderman characters that actually works for her status. Falcon is handed a shield because he helped Cap outside the law twice, Wanda gets a free pass after mind-controlling a town, Loki skips two films of character development because he watches a digital VHS, and I'm not even talking about Eternals.
Kate has an inciting incident (the Battle of New York), the motivation (protecting people and dogs), the inspiration (Hawkeye), the skill (like you would after training for ten years, plus she already had quick reflexes in that opening scene), and overall, despite her mild overconfidence, she's shown to be a normal human being. I don't want Hawkeye to be replaced, but Kate may be convincing me otherwise.
These Kate takes are WILD.
Wished youtube didn't remove the dislike button, wanted to see how many dislikes this video got lmao.
SAME LMAO
Same
Same here.
529 (return youtube dislike addon)
Fun fact: Echo doesn't have a prosthetic leg in the comics. When they were casting this show, they found an actress they liked for the role, she happened to have a prosthetic leg, and they just decided to work it into the character rather than hiding it.
A+ on Marvel's part.
28:00 *Suraj:* _"It's a great leap for this character."_ Is it though, *Suraj?* I think when we're talking about _Clint_ and even _Natasha,_ we need to remember that they are not the atypical squeaky clean superheroes. Just look what _Natasha_ had to do to finally join SHIELD. She had to off this bad man knowing full well his little daughter will be collateral damage. And if I'm not mistaken, it's presumed that _Clint_ was there at the time. So we can't really expect the same history as we generally would from those we consider superheroes.
Your biases can definitely show up in the way you watch television and consume media. If that weren't the case then all the bullshit surrounding like Star Wars or Miles Morales wouldn't be consistent problems.
I know you guys get, and internalize apparently, a lot of hate for a lot of different shit but trying to dismiss it somewhat condescendingly out of hand is not really the way to go. The truth of the matter is you guys do misunderstand a lot of things. Sometimes very obvious things, sometimes just ignorance of different perspectives. We've all come to understand it as being part of "The Normies" branding.
Sometimes you turn it around and are able to come to a different point of view but sometimes a certain narrative becomes the dominant one in your group.
Also, as for the sensitivity training joke, I feel it'd be super easy to pull both Chris and Suraj's card on that one. As a person on the internet, I personally wouldn't go issuing challenges like that.
This sums it up perfectly.
"The truth of the matter is you guys do misunderstand a lot of things." Christ, ain't that the truth! lol
@Dre Thomas We watch because we like them despite some of these things that happen sometimes. Disagreement can be healthy. Sometimes they just say wrong shit. My comment started off as a direct reaction to Suraj's statement that people's opinions don't reflect their biases sometimes.
Also, everything they're reacting to negatively is the literal text of the show, as stated explicitly and picked up on by the normies in this episode with the line about her overconfidence.
Her technical training is implied by both the opening sequence and the first episode. That isn't what her story is about.
Ya this react series is a bit F from me
y'all are so weird bro, definitely dipping out of these reactions from here on out lol y'all miss so much and understand so little
if you really need to see a training montage for Kate, go back to the opening animation from episode 1. you can see her failures, perseverance and eventual success.
Also good point by Chris of Clint doing his best not to fight like Ronin.
The term Mary Sue has to be retired. Always comes up with female characters. They "need" to earn their skill. Everyone just accepted Hawkeye's skill without any backstory or training montage. But because Kate can stand her ground against others, even though she obviously still struggles, she's somehow one. If you can suspend disbelief for male characters, you can do the same for female ones.
Batman nailed it. (Sorry to out you)
It’s just never a term that makes sense outside of someone critiquing a bad fanfiction from like 2007. I literally can’t believe they used it to refer to Kate in the first place lol
Kate is not a Mary Sue. But the Term Mary Sue is definitely a real thing and wont be retired.
Completely agree, it’s so sexist and male characters rarely ever get the same criticism
Replacing it with something as simple as “too perfect” would probably help reduce the gendered implications of the term.
Characters that are too perfect definitely exist, and it can be a problem with writing. However, more importantly, it applies to characters of any gender, age or other defining trait.
That said, as most people in the comments have already pointed out… Kate Bishop isn’t too perfect! Like, not even close. Her skills are justified in her backstory and her lack of experience is clearly showing in how she is fumbling through fights. She would have been in big trouble without Hawkeye there. She’s still learning.
It’s a superhero show… characters are unnaturally gifted in this genre. So long as it fits within the norm of other heroes in the genre, she’s not doing anything that warrants the “too perfect” label.
It’s hard not to assume they are approaching this with some kind of bias. Either it her age or her gender, but they aren’t giving her the same fair shot they’d give other characters who’ve shared her gifted yet overly confident traits.
I mean, if you have to go out of your way to make these grand statements about things you clearly missed about a character, maybe try paying attention to what the show gives you. Or else what's the point in reacting?
They're far too busy chatting amongst themselves and trying to score points off what they do manage to catch...
Seeing the weird Kate hate, literally we are watching a different show and this is not about a different opinions, ıt's more than that. 'Selfish, annoying, not a good person and Mary Sue', REALLY! Those takes are extra cringe even for the Normies standart.
And we can see that Rana doesn't think like them about Kate but she needs the speak up. Because they are making nonsense comments about Kate, complaining about everything and not paying attention(I know this is their brand but this time we are seeing something special).
%95 of the comments right about Kate argument. And you know what in youtube realm thats really hard, you guys manage the pull that off 😂
You guys missing the point(to be honest lots of things) that much. ''not a good person'' really 😂Even Pat's takes make more sense, yeah we are at that point.
They complain about her being selfish yet love Tony Stark lol.
"Her great.... grandparents were racists...."
also 5 seconds later
"He is Polish, it is sus. Connection."
Clint wasn’t just randomly killing, he was killing thugs and other killers
No offence guys but every other reaction I've watched have said how much they appreciated Kate struggling to fight the tracksuits in episode one. Literally every other one. So I don't understand how you guys seemed to feel that she was unrealistically good at it. Her struggle was quite visible and audible. She trained for nearly 12 years in several martial arts and is national champion in several. Her being able to beat up a hand full of idiots is not that hard to accept especially as they specifically show her using moves that would take her smaller stature into consideration. Plus there hasn't really been anything in the show that suggests she's selfish. She's shown to be overconfident, overachieving and overeager to help. Maybe she's naive and a bit spoiled but she literally just wants to protect her mom and impress Clint.
Try watching Reel Rejects, Heroes Reforged (Hector Navarro is spot on because he did his research), StruggleNation, Blind Wave, Holden Hardman (these couple loves Kate Bishop especially her dynamic relationship with Clint Barton), John Rocha (a better John than John Campea) and the Geek Buddies review on episodes 1 and 2, pReview'd, i don't know if Tyrone Magnus watches and reacts to Hawkeye
i have never seen such ridiculous hate for a good character
it’s so crazy to me how yall can be wrong about this big thing. opinions are different and we all have them but right here there is nothing you say that makes actual sense. it’s like yall came ready to hate kate bishop and refuse to acknowledge you could have been wrong.
girl has been learning martial arts since a kid, so yes she knows how to fight, and even when she fights you can see she’s a newbie young girl at it, she constantly fucks up.
she’s funnily overconfident yes and so? peter has the same kind of humor. sorta. so does tony.
she isn’t here to shine light on hawkeye, she has her own personality and regardless you can SEE he’s still badass and she’s learning from him. so each things you say each episode makes no sense to me.
it’s your opinions so you’re allowed to have them and that’s okay, but i’m gonna stop watching yall reaction because it’s beyond me how can people miss such a thing that’s obvious lol.
Try watching Reel Rejects, Heroes Reforged (Hector Navarro is spot on because he did his research), StruggleNation, Blind Wave, Holden Hardman (these couple loves Kate Bishop especially her dynamic relationship with Clint Barton), John Rocha (a better John than John Campea) and the Geek Buddies review on episodes 1 and 2, pReview'd, i don't know if Tyrone Magnus watches and reacts to Hawkeye
@@tovolume oh thank you I appreciate the recommendations because their reactions are just wack honestly
"Her great-great-great-great grandfather is racist."
"He is Polish, he is sus."
Yeah what the fuck was that? Almost turned the reaction off after that. Negative vibes all around with these guys
Conclusion: Chris don't know the how to use Mary Sue
Ehh internal hatred easily slowly comes out with people, more so off camera. The most loving people I know slip out their deeply rooted hatred on the "woke" agenda, or on trans and black people with their perceived notion on how they do things to Asians in America and get away with it.
You guys actually pushed me away from you all and towards other reacters with this series, big F
Yep. I’m watching Blindwave for Hawkeye. They aren’t my go-to because they aren’t very diverse (they all bring the same background to the thing, so they often only pick up on certain things and ignore others ), but they aren’t this deliberately obtuse. *You can’t accuse someone of having internal biases for their reaction to a TV show.* LOL. What? Of course you can. All you gotta do is exhibit your double standards and biases to be accused of such a thing.
I just unsubscribed
@@AllShadesAreGray The reel rejects were by far the most amazing. Blind wave is great as well.
You should also try watching struggle nation and RT TV, they were pretty fun to react to when it came to the series
"Pizza dog is a character in the comics. It's a dog who eats pizza."
Pizza dog is the fan nickname for this dog, whose name is Lucky in the comics.
Welp, that was the last reaction from you guys I watch for this show. See you on the next one.
Man it bums me out they don't like Kate. She's literally one of my favorite characters and honestly the constant judgement really ruins these videos for me. Movin on to some other reactions cause this is just too frustrating
Try watching Reel Rejects, Heroes Reforged (Hector Navarro is spot on because he did his research), StruggleNation, Blind Wave, Holden Hardman (these couple loves Kate Bishop especially her dynamic relationship with Clint Barton), John Rocha (a better John than John Campea) and the Geek Buddies review on episodes 1 and 2, pReview'd, i don't know if Tyrone Magnus watches and reacts to Hawkeye
You guys just hate Kate. I don’t know why! She’s awesome. So mayas super hero name is echo! She is adopted by KINGPIN in the comics! We seen his hand in the intro! The same actor from daredevil will be playing Wilson Fisk! Should be exciting to see him soon!
Echo is also getting her own show
@@Bunn-qd7ih why hate?
@@sammykent5752 what you mean?
@@Bunn-qd7ih why do you think they hate her?
Maybe try to avoid using gendered insults. There's a difference between "she's so op" and "she's a Mary Sue.".
We're in a series that starts with a billionaire who's suddenly not just able to design a propulsion system unlike anything the world has ever seen but also use it to fly as well as a fighter jet pilot. And everyone just accepts even with no training and no experience.
So when you start holding only female characters to this new very important standard and use gendered language while you're at it, not a good look.
THIS THIS This a thousand times this.
the uncles giggle in the dojo was a major moment... if you recognize the person behind the laugh.
I wish they continued the Daredevil series. Did not make sense to me that they somehow didn't have funds, or something like that.
NOOO okay so Rey is something I have OPINIONS about. Short version though: Luke spent a week getting yelled at by a gremlin in a swamp and came out a Jedi and no one complained.
The “Uncle” is wearing the same black suit that Kingpin wore throughout season 1 of Netflix’s Daredevil, and the man has the same distinct frame. Why else hide the face of the crime boss?
exactly!!
The actor for kingpin in daredevil, Vincent D’Onofrio, has been really really really vague on his Twitter, and has dropped cryptic poem tweets about how he’s in Hawkeye.
@@andimtravis6358 I'm not sure who else it would be. Since Daredevil is blind, Kingpin with a deaf enforcer is too perfect.
@@bettercallmaul5810 I mean it’s definitely him, like u said there’s no reason to hide a random crime boss’ face, it sounded like Vincent’s laugh & i think Kingpin adopts Maya Lopez in the comics
Kate: ....
Normies: WRONG!
xD
Again, surprised this needs to be said, her archery arc happend in the first credits lol. You guys had zero qualms about literally every other single MCU hero, but NOW Kate Bishop needs an arc lmfao. You guys are ridiculous
From reading the comments I can't be bothered watching this.
I've been a silent viewer of their channel and reactions, I only commented now because all the hate they have against Kate, like... it doesn't make sense. The only best thing in this channel is Rana
"you're young and you're rich - you think you're invincible".
I'm enjoying this more than any of the other 3 MCU Disney+ series - and I thought Wandavision was outstanding. The two leads are so good and it's a smiley show. You enjoy it as you watch it, as well as when it's over.
I don't think anyone is really accusing you of being misogynists, but I do think y'all have some unexamined prejudices that make watching this reaction a real bummer.
Not the Normies doubling down on a complaint that can be easily fixed if they just rewatched the episode 1 opening credits! 😭
People accusing them of engaging in misogyny might be a bit much but come on guys, they followed the "show, don't tell" principle. Y'all can't fault the show for trying to give us solid storytelling.
Nah, people have the right to call out and accuse the Normies for being stupid, hypocritical and clueless just like John Campea
Did you comment only after the first minute or so? I feel like most of these comments are from folks who didn't watch past the first minute.
@@sammykent5752 I started writing early in the video but watched the whole thing. Decided to post as is because while I appreciate that they seemingly softened their stance on Kate being a Mary Sue, they didn't walk it back completely. It was a soft doubling down, but they doubled down nonetheless imo.
Won't speak for other though, only for myself.
@@albericponcedeleon2696
only Chris ever called her a Mary Sue and Suraj already said she wasn't in the reaction to the first episode. And then Suraj clarifies again here that she isn't. So what do you mean doubling down?
Chris probably isn't walking back, because quite frankly his stance wasn't necessarily wrong and the reaction to it in the comments were frankly ridiculous. He said she's "a bit" of a Mary Sue, but he was specifically talking about how she could seemingly tank full body punches from larger men with little to no difficulty. That's it. And the comments exploded. He didn't have any complaints about her skills in general, just this one specific thing.
@@sammykent5752 to your point, yes Chris was the only one to explicitly call her a Mary Sue. However, Suraj sort of agreed with Chris in saying that he felt the show missed an arc of Kate getting better. Except that the "arc" of Kate getting better was actually shown in the opening credits.
I think it's somewhat reasonable to miss it the first time, since US shows rarely include vital information about the story in the opening credits. However, their mild complaints are not quite as reasonable. Kate Bishop takes punches from grown men really well despite not having powers because she exists in a superhero world. It's part of the suspension of disbelief that you have to engage in when you visit this genre. Even within the broader action umbrella, regular humans withstand way more punishment than is feasible within the real world. That by no means makes her a Mary Sue or anything approaching it.
We're both in agreement that accusing the Normies of misogyny over this is going overboard as there's nothing to indicate malice in their words. I just wanted to take a relatively light-hearted poke at a silly take that the Normies had. Nothing too serious at the end of the day.
I love that markets is the only one paying attention to the show. She points out the “calmate!” Joke and suraj immediately dismisses it saying “no they’re Russian!” Umm are you even paying attention wtf. Also how she’s actually sees Kate’s progression. Also y’all don’t know what a Mary Sue is. Yikes so embarrassing lmfao. These are the same guys who watched the trailer where Clint says who are you to Kate then proceed to say that’s his daughter 😂
Most people who use the term "Mary Sue" have no idea what it actually means.
Can't express how many times we said she is not a Mary Sue since the initial onset of the uttering of that word lol. The subtitles kept saying "Speaking in Russian" that is why I thought they were Russian.
You guys do not understand Kate Bishop character at all 🙂
This is my first time watching your channel, and I like y’all energy. I will say I totally disagree with some of y’all not liking the character Kate and saying she is spoiled and what not. Y’all gotta remember that she lost her father the same day she first saw Clint. She has basically been trying to impress him because she looks up to him so much almost as though he is a surrogate father. Also Echo’s abilities are basically the same as Taskmasters she is able to copy others moves just by watching them. For example, the first time we see the two boys sparing at the dojo (the little white boy is Kazi BTW based on the credits) the black kid trips little Kazi and then little Echo uses that same move against him.
Kate, literally an award winning athlete, multiple accolades in martial arts, fencing, gymnastics and shown multiple times to be an experience archer, all by the age of 22...
Normies (Suraj): "not believable, when did she learn to do all that?"
*Literal training montage in the opening titles*
*Multiple mentions of her skills and literal shots of her awards*
S: "she can't be a pro until a man shows her how, that should be her arc"
Never ever said that last bit lol
No suraj, the day nat came for clint in Tokyo is the day ronin died for him because he never put the suit back on after that.
2:16 I get what you're saying *Suraj.* It would be very realistic to see _Kate_ being impacted by those hits. But the problem with expecting that (at least to the point where we are at now with this discussion) is that we rarely see that with _anyone._
And I actually disagree with the concern that (I think) *Marketa* had with the gunfire in the wine cellar with episode 1. I could be remembering wrong, but I didn't think there were that many gunshots fired at her in the dark to begin with. On a scale of 1 to 10, when rating about how unrealistic it was versus all of the other media we consume, I'm thinking that was a 1. 🤷🏼♂️
I'm right with you with my connection to _Kate._ . .Or lack thereof. In fact, they really gave us much more of a reason to sympathize with _Maya_ than with _Kate._ But I am hoping (given how these *Marvel* shows tend to go) we'll get the full circle character arc with her.
*Edit:* Also, even while he was _Ronin,_ I believe _Clint_ has enough of a moral compass to not just kill people because _"they're on the bad guy's side."_ I think he probably did away with people who did more than simply steal DVD players. But they probably should address this, particularly after giving us _Maya's_ story.
Want to hear something amazing? Although I imagine someone else already mentioned this, *Alaqua Cox* who portrays _Maya_ is deaf. And unlike the actress portraying the assassin in _Kingsman,_ *Alaqua* actually has a prosthetic leg. She simply rocks.
Normies:
Step one - Fuck up
Step two - Get snippy and offended that people call them out on their mistakes
Step Three - Make more mistakes
Perfect definition 👍
The actress who plays maya Alaqua Cox is actually deaf and has a prosthetic leg, and also this is her first acting job
Mary Sue doesn't mean being great without training. It's means a female character who is perfect, great at everything and feels like a character the author created for their personal wish fulfillment. To be honest, the concept of a Mary Sue is sexist because there are plenty of male characters that fits this trope and no one bats an eye (the term Gary Stu exists but no one uses it). Kate is not a Mary Sue simply because she has character flaws and messes up... a lot.
They keep talking about missing Kate's arc and that she is a Mary Sue. Her arc is learning that this superhero life comes with consequences, and that her idol isn't who she thinks he is. That there is a darkness to this thing. Thats her arc, is learning about the ugliness of the superhero business and the real effects it can have on a human.
Also ya'll really don't know what a Mary Sue is, she is gifted and has trained her whole life but she has no actual experience which is why she fucks up pretty damn often. Boy glad these guys didn't read the comic, wouldn't want their take on comic book version of Kate, who is literally perfect at everything she does.
Most people who use the terms "Mary Sue" don't actually know what it means.
Clint becoming Ronin isn't really a stretch after The Snap - he lost his entire family and most of his friends. And so did literally billions of other people. He had no anchor, nothing grounding him, and when he sees a whole bunch of criminals all over the world making their bones off the people who are left, or bold new criminals rushing to fill the power vacuum, all he sees is a shitload of people that should have got dusted instead of his family and didn't. Why do they get to live and good people don't? Might not have been his call to make, but I can 100% see where the justification for the new persona came from.
Natasha killed Ronin when she found him and offered him a way to bring back his family. She killed Ronin before she made her sacrifice on Vormir.
The car chase scene was badass.
they eating y'all up in the comments I fear 😭 (rightfully so tbh)
Keep in mind people that her character Kate Bishop received overall praise from critics and other people who liked her. It seems obvious to me that those who don't have never read a comic and have no idea of what her character is from the comics
That's not an excuse, though. One shouldn't have to read the comics, to understand the character in the TV show, if the character is written well. Now, I'm not saying she is not well written (maybe could be better, but that's debatable), I personally like her (although I do know her from the comics). But let's not say, that if somebody doesn't like Kate, it must be just because they don't know the comics. 'Cos that would actually mean the show did a bad job.
Just because “critics” like her doesn’t mean viewers are obligated too. I don’t agree with all these guys takes but their still welcome to their opinion
Nah their opinion shows that they don't get it, like when news of other RUclips reactors who says the show failed because it's woke and has less viewers, they said the same thing about Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, but look at it now, it's not a flop, and why call Hawkeye a flop when it's just a tv show, not a box office. The first two episodes came out a week ago, and I felt like people ate so impatient and spoiled asking too much, when it's introducing new characters and giving time to explain them. Saying it failed because it's woke is NOT a opinion but a straight up lie
@@sioparr also critics who liked her said what's on their minds, viewers are just jumping in to review bomb or thinks the show is woke and says Clint Barton is the only Hawkeye when in fact Kate Bishop is also called Hawkeye in the comics, so it's also her show, it's like they are doing the fake news reporting stuff, get what I mean?
I mean its not Kate's fault that Clint as Ronin killed lots of people and now they're family are getting revenge, if was not Kate puttin that suit on another person would take it and use it. the consequences would come for him sooner or later
Funny how everyone (except for maybe Chris) completely missed the 'Uncle' tease and who it was.
I like overconfident Kate. Plays off well with Barton.
Mary Sue is basically an unrealistically perfect female character capable of doing things that others can’t, usually better than even those with years of training and experience. They also usually never lose in a fight so there’s no growth or development for them in that aspect. Rey from Star Wars is the perfect example of this. Kate isnt. She’s still learning, flawed and has no idea what she’s doing except for when she has her bow and arrow.
She not one
We’re shown that Kate spent like 10-12 years training and getting really good at what she does but she also has 0 real world applications of those skills, just cause she knows how to fight we’re shown she can’t take down a squad of track suit goons cause she’s still green.
Neither character is an example of this.
@@kaenopianciennechaine9226 Rey was. That was the main criticism of her character.
@@mariejenkins3172 I know. I said Kate isn’t.
yk it’s unnecessary hate when u think of rob from rttv fitting in here perfectly with the opinions on kate 😐
Funny detail - the imagine dragons bro is actually played by a polish actor and so even the subtitles say russian, he is actually speaking polish in every scene (even drops an f-bomb in the 1st episode which i dont think disney realised)
A lot of parents teach sign language to very young kids. Clint was saying that was the kind of sign language he knew.
The disrespect. Her name is Natasha not Natalie...
Bruh they don’t even know the name of one of the first Avengers’, wow
@@brooklynnbien-aime3859 exactly 💯
Yes, they fixed the building within the nine+ years timeskip guys :P
Fun Fact: in the comics the dog’s original name was Arrow, but Clint thought it was to on the nose, so he changes it to Lucky the Pizza Dog.
You know what people, I suggest you watch other reactors who loved and appreciated and understood Kate Bishop, the Reel Rejects, Holden Hardman ( those couple loved Kate Bishop ), StruggleNation, Heroes Reforged ( Hector Navarro did his research and said that Kate Bishop is also called Hawkeye in the comics so it's also her show ), watch the review of John Rocha and the Geek Buddies, Perri Nemiroff, Tessa Smith of Mama's Geeky. Keep in mind people that Hailee Steinfeld's Kate Bishop received overall praise from critics and other people
In the comics when Kate and Clint finally meet she's already experienced and Clint is kind of a mess in his personal life so it's less Clint mentoring her and more Kate being like a Watson type. The show is the wiser older cop and the younger wet behind the ears rookie.
The beginning of this episode is basically the origin story for the Echo series that is being made. It also looks like you didn't notice that Uncle is most likely Kingpin his laugh clearly sounded like Vincent D'Onofrio.
I think you need Sensitivity training from Michael Scott definitely
You've mentioned Mary Due a few times now to describe Kate. If you don't know what a 'Mary Sue' is I suggest you stop overusing it and trying to act as if you know what it means.
Like this descends beyond a bad take. Holy crap examine y'all hypocrisies then come back to this show holy shit
Kate is not the daughter of Hawkeye. Just to remind u guys.
what is wrong with you guys??? i use to love you're reactions, but are you so pitty with this show, didn't even watch the intro
Kate is Amazing and you guys are just hating her 🙄
ummmmm Akwafina's Katy? I don't know why the dislike with Kate when in the comics and even on the intro it showed she had a long legit experience with archery, fencing and hand to hand combat Black Belt at age 12. She's been on it since she was kid. Much like the Green Arrow on the DC comics. Kate to me is straight up young Barton untrained by shield.
Now Katy (Shang chi) on the other hand was perfectly fine?
that guy on the phone is a polish actor and he is speaking polish not russian these subtitles are so wrong
I'm bingeing ATLA with you guys again and the goosebumps are as emphatic as they were when I first saw it
I personally quite like the actor portraying Ivan. Aleks Paunovic. Canadian actor from Winnipeg of Serbian/Croatian descent and former Pan-American Boxer that had to retire due to injury. He was also recently in the tv series of "Snowpiercer" as Chief Breachman Boscovic.
Where is that guy that kept saying they can't catch up because they have a schedule to keep in every damn post 🙄