Brilliant video. Informative & great points. Some things I want to add: - Hard Rock and Heavy Metal are produced and mixed differently. Hard Rock is more radio-friendly and the focus is on Drums(rhythm) and Vocals(hooks). In Metal, guitars are upfront and the music is based on relentless in-your-face guitar riffs. - The feel & lyrical themes of those two genres are also different. I agree w your points! Metal is offensive and relentless, while Hard Rock is bluesy, sometimes dirty/sleazy, sometimes melancholic. - We also have Hard Rock/Heavy Metal bands, bands that have one foot in Hard Rock and the other in Metal. I'd say Y&T is a Hard Rock/Heavy Metal band. -Lets not forget musical traditions: Metal bands cite other Metal bands and godfathers (Purple, Heep, Scorpions) as musical influences while Hard Rock bands cite rock and blues artists as influences. - You're spot-on w your explanation of minor keys and Metal. Thats one of the reasons why I'd consider first 2-3 albums of Motley Crue and Ratt as Metal(Heavy-Glam) and their later albums as Commercial Hard Rock(or Glam/Hard Rock) Finally, music magazines used to use these terms interchangeably, we see a more clear seperation of Hard Rock and Metal in the mid-80s. By 1988, people knew that Testament is a Metal band and White Lion is Hard Rock. More videos like this please!🤙👍
I disagree. Heavy metal is also radio-friendly, depending on what sub-genre you're talking about. Metal is not about just riffs, on the contrary it often has dual guitar harmonized leads and elaborate solos, songs can be short and simple like on British Steel or Black Album or super progressive. Priest cited many non-metal or even non-rock acts as inspiration. Their famous cover songs like "Green Manalishi" and "Diamonds and Rust" came from blues rock and folk rock origins. Dave Mustaine and Ozzy both cite the Beatles as a huge inspiration. Ratt and Motley are totally metal and also hard rock. It has more to do than just minor scales. Like I said, every metal guitarist uses pentatonic and blues scales liberally. The difference is partly in the technique too--finger tapping, sweep picking, harmonized leads from dual guitars.
Great video. I also like to think of Metal as classical influenced, while hard rock is influenced by folk. Hard rock went hymns - Folk - country - rockabilly - rock - hard rock. Metal on the other hand went classical - metal.
You covered just about everything, there remains a final fundamental difference that ultimately determines the distinction: the drum rhythms! Metal is more dynamic, rhythmically intensive and complex, while Rock beats tend to be more basic, stomping single kick patterns, unless we get into progressive rock which has more complexity (Rush, etc.)
I agree 100% with everything you said. The only other major differences for me is that hard rock bands tend to condone more to the general songwriting formula (verse, prechorus, chorus, etc) and use more common chord progressions. Also while both genres have backing vocals, hard rock tends to have harmonies while metal has shouting backing vocals, and if a metal band uses harmonies it's done in a haunting sort of way (Such as with Alice In Chains)
Even within the development of 1 band there can be difference between hard rock and metal. Rocka Rolla is heavy blues, while Stained Class is metal. Black Sabbath's debut contains a lot of blues influences, but Master of Reality is metal. Interesting! Would like to here more of this from you!
Very informative, musically speaking. Stuff like scales and rhythm I always assumed made up part of the difference by HR and HM, but I never actually knew the difference. Additionally, it was good to see you giving examples of how they differ in sound on the guitar.
Only problem, is all these Hard Rock bands were called Heavy Metal in the 70s and 80s. I just think the line between Hard Rock and Heavy Metal is a lot more defined in 2022 to a modern fan. If the aggression and anger is not there , it's seen as Hard Rock to todays audience. To me if it has more in common with Priest, than the Rolling Stones it fits somewhere into a Metal Category. for example Cinderella = Hard Rock, Dokken = Heavy Metal.
John theres a very thin line between the two. In my opinion AC/DC sound more metal than most metal bands. But because angus said were a rock n roll band same as lemmy said about motorhead we play rock n roll. Those two bands dont get categorised as metal but they both sound as metal as any other metal band in my opinion.
Nailed it. Perfectly explains why most of the hair bands and nu metal isn't actually Metal. Does make me wonder why European Power Metal is considered Metal though. Most of that kind of stuff uses the major scale more than the minor scale.
Great video! Some - very belated - comments: the main rhythmical difference between metal and hardrock seems to be that the later is more polyrhythmic. ACDC is an archetype of such an approach. The drums hold a steady backbeat and the guitars play "against" that beat, creating tension by accenting different patterns than the drums. Think of "Highway to Hell". Compared to that, early metal has more of a unison feel to it: all instruments accenting one and the same pattern in slightly different ways. Think of "Iron man" or "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" by Black Sabbath. Another important aspect is form. Hardrock bands seem to prefer the use of verse/chorus-structures, while metal bands more often use additive structures, where an intro is followed by a first riff, than a second etc. These are not my own ideas but taken from the wonderful book "Schwermetallanalysen" by Dietmar Elflein, unfortunately it´s only availlable in german.
Loved the video, back in the day (early to mid seventies for me) the only distinction we made was "heavy" music for anything loud like Sabbath or Zeppelin. Looking at things from a different perspective, I came to HM very late in my listening life, starting with Mastodon, Opeth and Megadeth amongst others. When I started investigating bands like Priest and Maiden I thought how is this HM? I mean I really like it but it seemed so tame by comparison, almost like a type of pop music with loud guitars with a few bits of prog thrown in here and there. I suppose here we're now into the gazillions of metal sub-genres.
Producer Martin Birch once described Iron Maiden as " speeded up prog rock". Maiden often cite Jethro Tull as an influence. The prog influence is present in most bands considered an influence by most metal artists. . From Deep Purple, some Sabbath, Uriah Heep, and Led Zeppelin, through Dio-era Rainbow, and seventies Judas Priest, to cite a few, the prog element is there, and was picked up by future generations of bands. On the other hand, the seachange in the music scene caused by the advent of punk also helped make bands faster and more aggressive, ( even though some metal artists like Steve Harris derided punk).Lemmy always said Motorhead were rock and roll, not metal, but their attitude and sound, which appealed to punks and metalheads alike, had a huge influence on the metal scene. The eighties thrash metal bands emphasised metal and punk rock aspects over hard rock , but the prog side also surfaced ( for example in Metallica or Megadeth.). In the late seventies and for much of the eighties, heavy metal became an umbrella term applied at some point or other to any band from Europe to Napalm Death but over the years the distinction between the two became more evident.But what is considered metal nowadays, while it has an umbilical cord connected to hard rock , is a cocktail of influences, including such apparently antagonistic styles as punk and prog rock. Hard rock has all the blues rock and thematic influences in the lyrics mentioned in the video, but also usually has fewer prog rock elements, though there are always exceptions.
Hmm the experts at the Grammy would disagree with you. And Ionmi’s former boss confirmed that the flute is a heavy metal instrument 😃But seriously you did a good job making your definition concise as opposed to a long drawn out explanation with numerous nuisances . I agree LZ and Aerosmith hark rock BSabbath JPriest HMetal.
Besides the blues vs natural minor thing I would say metal music generally has a wider scope of different musical vocabulary, more time signatures are used, polyrhythms even, mixes classical european and eastern music theory a lot more often and is likely to be written in a more complex counter manner.
As a quick and easy way to help define the difference I think you just about nailed it. Good call to play examples of each. A good comparison would be two albums that came out in 1978, one of which is Hard Rock and the other Heavy Metal - Budgie's Impeckable and Judas Priest's Stained Class. Trying to accurately define what makes a piece of music fit in what genre though can be a bit like knitting fog, as there will always be exceptions and cross overs and one man's Metal could be another man's hard rock - for example back in the early 80's the Kerrang Heavy Metal chart had Genesis in it and a lot of what was termed Heavy Metal throgh the 70's and 80's patently wasnt. Take the Scorpions - Heavy Metal or Hard rock? probably more Hard rock, but they also do songs taht could be classed as Heavy Metal. And what about Queen - heavy metal, hard rock, heavy rock, pop, even maybe a big of R&B and disco? ANd then something like Yes' Machine Messiah. As Journey said in Edge of the Blade (Hard Rock though they did have almost metal moments like Chain Reaction maybe?) 'If it's sharp, if it cuts, Enjoy yourself.'
Actually you are wrong with regards genesis In the kerrang heavy metal charts in early eighties. I flicked through past episodes of kerrang and was slightly surprised that they weren't included because they were always regarded as a "heavy" band Especially in the 70s.the only progressive rock band from the 70s that were included were yes partly due do the inclusion of metal guitarist Trevor Rabin in their line up.jethro till and pink Floyd were also omitted.however this chart also mysteriously omitted queen as well who everybody knows were a metal band especially live.it included the likes of Bonnie Tyler who clearly is not a metal act. I think the kerrang charts you are referring to is the mid eighties kerrang charts which included the likes of Chris de burgh and dire straits so the inclusion of genesis and their solo members certainly wasn't a surprise given their background.bruce Dickinson always regarded early genesis as a heavy rock band and surely his opinion should be respected given his reputation
@@paulswords5745 Fair enough, I dont have any old Kerrangs to look at and it may well have been in the mid 80's, and its 35 to 40 years ago and my memory isnt that accurate - interestingly Kerrang did do a feature once on Barclay james Harvest - would have been the late 80's as it was regarding their Face to FAce album. My general point was more about the way that the press would catgorise a wide range of bands as Heavy Metal.
I cannot plainly explain the difference between Hard Rock and Heavy Metal when it comes to legacy the time the genres were formed. We can talk more as time has passed to see more differences of what doesn't. I think the better question is to define what separates Metal from regular Rock music... because Hard Rock is simply rock music that is harder/heavier than traditional rock but is not quite Metal. Trying to explain what is Metal and what is Hard Rock is a matter of... you'll know it when you see it/hear it than listing criteria that makes something one or the other. It feels like it's a matter of image of the band than musically what makes up something... how much their songs lean towards darkness and aggression vs a more upbeat sometimes positive or having a good time vibe is a place to start.
Thank you for this. I literally just spent wasted hours/days arguing back and forth with someone on Twitter about what rock is. I still have sharp disagreements with people putting metal music under the rock category. I even tried using analogies to illustrate that this isn’t correct. Here’s to hoping I stop wasting my time online arguing with people lol. In my opinion the drum beat also makes or breaks the emphasis of the song being rock or metal as well. Really wish we could stop trying to justify all sections of metal being under the umbrella technical term: “rock”. Because honestly it’s bogus.
I just had a debate with a glam metal fan who asserts that Kiss is heavy metal. I obviously don't agree with his assessment, but he claims he knows more than a hard rock or metal expert like Eddie Trunk, who on many occasions has said Kiss is melodic hard rock. Trunk has cited the times when members of Kiss have dropped subtle hints that they were not a genuine heavy metal band. Twisted Sister...are they hard rock or metal? This same glam fan I am debating claims they are.
Everyone interested in this general topic should cast an eye over the book: Running with the Devil: Power, Gender and Madness in Heavy Metal Music by Robert Walser. Particularly the first section that has a musicological analysis of the genre. All the other sociological stuff can be ignored. Music is all that matters haha!! Additionally, if you're into drone and doom, check out Monolithic Undertow by Harry Sword. (yes, I know. What a brilliant name for a metal writer). An excellent overview of the drone in all forms of music in fact. A topic I've been banging on about for years. :)
Metal is a martial form of rock. That distinguishes it from hard rock, among the obsession with avoiding Major scale melodies of pop. Lyrical content is also a distinguishing characteristic of the two genres. Metal tends to produce more anthems than hard rock. In many ways, heavy metal is just an anarchistic reaction to what existed, in the same way that punk was reactionary, by its nature.
Interesting to see they types of chords you are using for each example. Hard Rock is using major open chords with roots in the pentatonic minor scale. Heavy Metal uses power chords with roots in the natural minor scale plus the tritone and minor second note you mentioned. Both are forms of chromaticism but used in distinctly different ways.
Just because hard rock has more distortion in its sound. That still doesn't mean that it shares any commonalities with metal music, because even rock can have its own variations in its sound. So it's true that metal music has a heavier distortion in its sound. But it has way more characteristics than just having heavier distortion. 😶🌫
I love rock and metal. Rocker and metalhead might call me a fake one or whatever idc ik what i listen to. I can tell like actual heavy vs what ppl think is heavy but im unable to ascertain specific genre. I listen to hard rock and/or metal for like yearss now but i never bother to properly learn the difference. I just listen to whats good to my ears and the instruments and such. Forget hard rock vs heavy metal, i cant tell what a progressive rock should sound like. If i listen ofc i can tell that this rock is a different genre. I just dont know the name. Today im attempting to learn
I think you pretty much nailed the major differences between hard rock and metal. Black Sabbath and Judas Priest are metal. AC/DC and Aerosmith are hard rock. As for some bands... I'd say some are both like The Sweet and KISS.
okay, I really agree because these two types of music are always discussed, they say, like there's no difference... but they also have lots of opinions, like Lemmy Kilmister once said when he commented about ACDC, ACDC has the same genre as Motörhead, they play hard rock and roll like Motörhead, then for Lemmy heavy metal and hard rock the difference is only in the name, that's Lemmy Kilmister's opinion, there are also local musicians here who comment that hard rock and heavy metal only have the difference in jackets, hard rock uses denim and heavy metal uses leather . but in my opinion, in hard rock music, most of it is mixed with heavy metal, and in heavy metal it is definitely mixed with hard rock. there are many examples of motorhead songs-to good too be true, acdc-hells bells, alice cooper-poison, sabbath-sabbath bloody sabbath, judas priest-rocka rolla, scorpions-big city night. Yes, they are not the same but they merge into one.
Enjoyed that, thanks. I used to discuss this with like minded friends years ago, but as none of us could play anything ( not quite true, I have a friend who is a pretty accomplished drummer), we tended to focus more on subjective aspects (lyrics, image, album sleeve design and so on), so it is interesting to see an objective assessment based on the music itself (albeit I do find my jaw going a bit slack; I have whatever the opposite of musical talent is). Here's a question; Motorhead- Metal or Punk? (jumps into bunker and closes hatch).
Thanks! And I can hear the bombers (pun intended) circling..haha. Well, Lemmy would tell you Motorhead plays rock and roll. They definitely had a punk attitude to what they did but I wouldn't call them a punk band. By the 80s I think they were more Heavy Metal but one could make the argument that their early stuff is just really really heavy hard rock.
@@LairoftheAlchemist For me Motorhead has always sond like a very loud, fast and extreme hard rock band. Behind those double-bass drums and punk influences they have always been very bluesy
What do you think of the sword? Particularly age of winters. Its such a perfect mix of hard rock/metal that i cant tell what it is. What would you say?
Excellent video..many folks confuse hard rock with heavy metal..sometimes I debate with them I have nothing against hard rock But somehow hard rock is taken as heavy metal ,other names glam metal. And they tend to infiltrate hard rock as metal band. Which is wrong But anyway the video tells a lot about the differences.and is brilliant
I used to consider Led Zeppelin heavy metal since they're part of the original unholy trinity, but when I listen closely I ask myself, "really?" Now I agree they are a rock band. Not even hard rock really, just rock, because they have everything--folk, acoustic, hard, metal, etc. You wouldn't call the Beatles "metal" despite a couple metal songs they pioneered, ditto for Jimi Hendrix. That said, I would consider Van Halen both hard rock AND heavy metal. EVH's style was the holy bible for every heavy metal guitarist of the 80s or really since then. And yes, they have plenty of hard rock riffs too (You Really Got Me cover being a very obvious choice). Deep Purple I would also say are both hard rock and heavy metal. Same for Judas Priest. I agree though that generally the difference lies in the scale choice, with rock being generally blues-based (with certain iconic Chuck Berry licks that we all use) vs metal generally using more melodic options. However, they're not limited to just minor scale. Major scale 3 note per string runs are very common too, as are the different modes of the major scale. We also see non-modal scales such as harmonic minor and the Egyptian scale appear a lot--e.g. Holy Wars, Powerslave, Creeping Death. Randy Rhoads used the whole tone scale in some of his solos, and some darker bands also favor diminished scale. Beyond scale choice, technique matters too. Like I said, EVH wrote the book on metal guitar, at least a lot of it, so any finger tapping, 3 note hammer-on/pull-offs, super fast alternate picking, or sweep picking are all heavy metal staples, not as common in rock. That said, all of this is malleable and there is no clear delineation. Tons of heavy metal uses pentatonic and blues-based riffs and licks; I'm sure there's plenty of rock bands that use major and minor scales too (Think Journey Don't Stop Believing maj based riff or Twisted Sister We're Not Gonna Take it!) Ultimately it comes down to feel to tell what's more of a hard rock vs heavy metal, but let's face it, if they're one, chances are good more often than not they're also the other.
I’ve always found it interesting that on the song Screaming For Vengeance, the guitar parts during the verses sound way more hard rock than heavy metal. Just the verses though. Am I right?
I would define heavy metal as a hybrid between folk (melody, lyrical themes), neoclassical (musically), romanticism (music and lyrics) and modernism (dissonance, atonality and noise). It is inherently melodic. Remove those elements and you do not have metal.
I think it's interesting that almost everyone bar the most casual of listeners is more and more aware of genres and subgenres these days. Does that also mean people are becoming more discerning? I remember back in the late 70s early 80s there was a lot of the "it all sounds the same" argument made about (what was called at the time) hard rock and metal. Although how any but the most cloth eared could say that Boston sounded like Black Sabbath or Journey like Judas Priest I'll never know. Nice video, looks like you had fun making it which makes it fun to watch 😊
I'm not so sure. Indulge me with a basketball analogy. In the 60s, 70s, and to some degree 80s you had guards, forwards, and centers (sometimes called posts) in the NBA. In the 90s that expanded to point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, center. Nowadays, for different reasons, the league is almost position less and the position categories have gone back to being more broad. In short, the NBA went from general categories, to specific categories, to hardly any categories at all (at present). I would say that in music as in basketball categorization works very similarly.
I would also say that in the present day categorization of metal acts is pretty useful, but precise categorization would have been impossible for many of the "hard rock" bands that played in the 70s. Led Zeppelin is a perfect example as they have songs across several genres 1. Gallows Pole is a folk song 2. Immigrant Song is a "epic metal" song 3. Communication Breakdown and Rock and Roll are hard rock songs 4. Still Loving You is a blues song 5. Bron Y Aur Stomp is kind of country hard rock 6. Stairway to Heaven is impossible to place in a genre. In the 70s acts like Zeppelin, Queen, and even 70s Judas Priest would be bordering on impossible to categorize with a subgenre label. Whereas, nowadays there are bands that clearly go after one very specific style. Bands like Lamb of God and Halestorm are pretty easy to classify.
The point is it shouldn't matter. People today get too hung up on trying to label bands a certain genre and force them into creative boxes, and all that does is discourage creativity and focus on things that don't matter. I love Boston and Sabbath and Priest, and all three are very distinct yet at the end of the day they're all rock 'n' roll, which is all that matters.
Maiden is mostly hard rock with some prog elements, not Metal IMHO. But it seems to me that all music with overdriven guitars, heavy or fast rythm and lyrics with some serious thematic, they are all labeled METAL!!
for me if you could play the album at the party with casual rock fans and they are ok with it then it's not metal, so ac/dc not metal, led zeppelin not metal but take British Steel by priest it has some rock centric songs but there's a almost equal amount of songs that said partyers would tell you to please skip
Brilliant video. Informative & great points. Some things I want to add:
- Hard Rock and Heavy Metal are produced and mixed differently. Hard Rock is more radio-friendly and the focus is on Drums(rhythm) and Vocals(hooks). In Metal, guitars are upfront and the music is based on relentless in-your-face guitar riffs.
- The feel & lyrical themes of those two genres are also different. I agree w your points! Metal is offensive and relentless, while Hard Rock is bluesy, sometimes dirty/sleazy, sometimes melancholic.
- We also have Hard Rock/Heavy Metal bands, bands that have one foot in Hard Rock and the other in Metal. I'd say Y&T is a Hard Rock/Heavy Metal band.
-Lets not forget musical traditions: Metal bands cite other Metal bands and godfathers (Purple, Heep, Scorpions) as musical influences while Hard Rock bands cite rock and blues artists as influences.
- You're spot-on w your explanation of minor keys and Metal. Thats one of the reasons why I'd consider first 2-3 albums of Motley Crue and Ratt as Metal(Heavy-Glam) and their later albums as Commercial Hard Rock(or Glam/Hard Rock)
Finally, music magazines used to use these terms interchangeably, we see a more clear seperation of Hard Rock and Metal in the mid-80s. By 1988, people knew that Testament is a Metal band and White Lion is Hard Rock.
More videos like this please!🤙👍
Thanks and you make some great points! thanks for sharing.
I disagree. Heavy metal is also radio-friendly, depending on what sub-genre you're talking about.
Metal is not about just riffs, on the contrary it often has dual guitar harmonized leads and elaborate solos, songs can be short and simple like on British Steel or Black Album or super progressive.
Priest cited many non-metal or even non-rock acts as inspiration. Their famous cover songs like "Green Manalishi" and "Diamonds and Rust" came from blues rock and folk rock origins. Dave Mustaine and Ozzy both cite the Beatles as a huge inspiration.
Ratt and Motley are totally metal and also hard rock. It has more to do than just minor scales. Like I said, every metal guitarist uses pentatonic and blues scales liberally. The difference is partly in the technique too--finger tapping, sweep picking, harmonized leads from dual guitars.
Beavis: Metal Butt-head: Hard Rock
yes
metal has more chugga chugga, rock has more braaaang braaaang.
Great video. I also like to think of Metal as classical influenced, while hard rock is influenced by folk. Hard rock went hymns - Folk - country - rockabilly - rock - hard rock. Metal on the other hand went classical - metal.
Thanks and good point about classical, I agree.
You covered just about everything, there remains a final fundamental difference that ultimately determines the distinction: the drum rhythms! Metal is more dynamic, rhythmically intensive and complex, while Rock beats tend to be more basic, stomping single kick patterns, unless we get into progressive rock which has more complexity (Rush, etc.)
Good point!
I agree 100% with everything you said. The only other major differences for me is that hard rock bands tend to condone more to the general songwriting formula (verse, prechorus, chorus, etc) and use more common chord progressions. Also while both genres have backing vocals, hard rock tends to have harmonies while metal has shouting backing vocals, and if a metal band uses harmonies it's done in a haunting sort of way (Such as with Alice In Chains)
Good point about songwriting formulas
Don't think I'd consider AiC metal. They are definitely a hard rock band. Which is fine they are probably my favorite rock band ever. Very bluesy.
@@jonredcorn862 They're totally metal, are you kidding? Compare them to the other big grunge bands and that much is obvious.
Even within the development of 1 band there can be difference between hard rock and metal. Rocka Rolla is heavy blues, while Stained Class is metal. Black Sabbath's debut contains a lot of blues influences, but Master of Reality is metal. Interesting! Would like to here more of this from you!
Great video. Nice to have it explained in terms of scales and rythms.
Thank you!
Very informative, musically speaking. Stuff like scales and rhythm I always assumed made up part of the difference by HR and HM, but I never actually knew the difference. Additionally, it was good to see you giving examples of how they differ in sound on the guitar.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Only problem, is all these Hard Rock bands were called Heavy Metal in the 70s and 80s. I just think the line between Hard Rock and Heavy Metal is a lot more defined in 2022 to a modern fan. If the aggression and anger is not there , it's seen as Hard Rock to todays audience.
To me if it has more in common with Priest, than the Rolling Stones it fits somewhere into a Metal Category. for example Cinderella = Hard Rock, Dokken = Heavy Metal.
I agree that the term Heavy Metal itself has changed over the years. I also agree with Cinderella and Dokken.
John theres a very thin line between the two. In my opinion AC/DC sound more metal than most metal bands. But because angus said were a rock n roll band same as lemmy said about motorhead we play rock n roll. Those two bands dont get categorised as metal but they both sound as metal as any other metal band in my opinion.
I agree it is a thin line and AC/DC was at their most metal for me during the early Brian Johnson years.
@@LairoftheAlchemist yeah back in black is metal as anything.
The rhythm is where it’s at in my opinion. If it swings or grooves it’s most likely not metal.
Nailed it. Perfectly explains why most of the hair bands and nu metal isn't actually Metal. Does make me wonder why European Power Metal is considered Metal though. Most of that kind of stuff uses the major scale more than the minor scale.
Great video! Some - very belated - comments: the main rhythmical difference between metal and hardrock seems to be that the later is more polyrhythmic. ACDC is an archetype of such an approach. The drums hold a steady backbeat and the guitars play "against" that beat, creating tension by accenting different patterns than the drums. Think of "Highway to Hell". Compared to that, early metal has more of a unison feel to it: all instruments accenting one and the same pattern in slightly different ways. Think of "Iron man" or "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" by Black Sabbath. Another important aspect is form. Hardrock bands seem to prefer the use of verse/chorus-structures, while metal bands more often use additive structures, where an intro is followed by a first riff, than a second etc. These are not my own ideas but taken from the wonderful book "Schwermetallanalysen" by Dietmar Elflein, unfortunately it´s only availlable in german.
Love your SG! I have a Taro SG. Japanese copy from the 80s and it's my favourite. 🤘
Thanks and cool on the Taro!
Loved the video, back in the day (early to mid seventies for me) the only distinction we made was "heavy" music for anything loud like Sabbath or Zeppelin.
Looking at things from a different perspective, I came to HM very late in my listening life, starting with Mastodon, Opeth and Megadeth amongst others. When I started investigating bands like Priest and Maiden I thought how is this HM? I mean I really like it but it seemed so tame by comparison, almost like a type of pop music with loud guitars with a few bits of prog thrown in here and there. I suppose here we're now into the gazillions of metal sub-genres.
Producer Martin Birch once described Iron Maiden as " speeded up prog rock". Maiden often cite Jethro Tull as an influence. The prog influence is present in most bands considered an influence by most metal artists. . From Deep Purple, some Sabbath, Uriah Heep, and Led Zeppelin, through Dio-era Rainbow, and seventies Judas Priest, to cite a few, the prog element is there, and was picked up by future generations of bands. On the other hand, the seachange in the music scene caused by the advent of punk also helped make bands faster and more aggressive, ( even though some metal artists like Steve Harris derided punk).Lemmy always said Motorhead were rock and roll, not metal, but their attitude and sound, which appealed to punks and metalheads alike, had a huge influence on the metal scene. The eighties thrash metal bands emphasised metal and punk rock aspects over hard rock , but the prog side also surfaced ( for example in Metallica or Megadeth.). In the late seventies and for much of the eighties, heavy metal became an umbrella term applied at some point or other to any band from Europe to Napalm Death but over the years the distinction between the two became more evident.But what is considered metal nowadays, while it has an umbilical cord connected to hard rock , is a cocktail of influences, including such apparently antagonistic styles as punk and prog rock. Hard rock has all the blues rock and thematic influences in the lyrics mentioned in the video, but also usually has fewer prog rock elements, though there are always exceptions.
Technically, one big difference between hard rock and heavy metal is density. :)
good point. There's a lot more space in hard rock where as metal is very thick.
Hmm the experts at the Grammy would disagree with you. And Ionmi’s former boss confirmed that the flute is a heavy metal instrument 😃But seriously you did a good job making your definition concise as opposed to a long drawn out explanation with numerous nuisances . I agree LZ and Aerosmith hark rock BSabbath JPriest HMetal.
Besides the blues vs natural minor thing I would say metal music generally has a wider scope of different musical vocabulary, more time signatures are used, polyrhythms even, mixes classical european and eastern music theory a lot more often and is likely to be written in a more complex counter manner.
good points! I agree.
Perfect 🤘🤘
As a quick and easy way to help define the difference I think you just about nailed it. Good call to play examples of each.
A good comparison would be two albums that came out in 1978, one of which is Hard Rock and the other Heavy Metal - Budgie's Impeckable and Judas Priest's Stained Class.
Trying to accurately define what makes a piece of music fit in what genre though can be a bit like knitting fog, as there will always be exceptions and cross overs and one man's Metal could be another man's hard rock - for example back in the early 80's the Kerrang Heavy Metal chart had Genesis in it and a lot of what was termed Heavy Metal throgh the 70's and 80's patently wasnt.
Take the Scorpions - Heavy Metal or Hard rock? probably more Hard rock, but they also do songs taht could be classed as Heavy Metal. And what about Queen - heavy metal, hard rock, heavy rock, pop, even maybe a big of R&B and disco? ANd then something like Yes' Machine Messiah.
As Journey said in Edge of the Blade (Hard Rock though they did have almost metal moments like Chain Reaction maybe?) 'If it's sharp, if it cuts, Enjoy yourself.'
Im not sure if genesis were in the heavy metal chart, maybe a rock chart that had bands like doors and sex pistols, less metal than genesis
Actually you are wrong with regards genesis In the kerrang heavy metal charts in early eighties. I flicked through past episodes of kerrang and was slightly surprised that they weren't included because they were always regarded as a "heavy" band Especially in the 70s.the only progressive rock band from the 70s that were included were yes partly due do the inclusion of metal guitarist Trevor Rabin in their line up.jethro till and pink Floyd were also omitted.however this chart also mysteriously omitted queen as well who everybody knows were a metal band especially live.it included the likes of Bonnie Tyler who clearly is not a metal act. I think the kerrang charts you are referring to is the mid eighties kerrang charts which included the likes of Chris de burgh and dire straits so the inclusion of genesis and their solo members certainly wasn't a surprise given their background.bruce Dickinson always regarded early genesis as a heavy rock band and surely his opinion should be respected given his reputation
@@paulswords5745 Fair enough, I dont have any old Kerrangs to look at and it may well have been in the mid 80's, and its 35 to 40 years ago and my memory isnt that accurate - interestingly Kerrang did do a feature once on Barclay james Harvest - would have been the late 80's as it was regarding their Face to FAce album. My general point was more about the way that the press would catgorise a wide range of bands as Heavy Metal.
I cannot plainly explain the difference between Hard Rock and Heavy Metal when it comes to legacy the time the genres were formed. We can talk more as time has passed to see more differences of what doesn't. I think the better question is to define what separates Metal from regular Rock music... because Hard Rock is simply rock music that is harder/heavier than traditional rock but is not quite Metal. Trying to explain what is Metal and what is Hard Rock is a matter of... you'll know it when you see it/hear it than listing criteria that makes something one or the other. It feels like it's a matter of image of the band than musically what makes up something... how much their songs lean towards darkness and aggression vs a more upbeat sometimes positive or having a good time vibe is a place to start.
Thank you for this. I literally just spent wasted hours/days arguing back and forth with someone on Twitter about what rock is. I still have sharp disagreements with people putting metal music under the rock category. I even tried using analogies to illustrate that this isn’t correct. Here’s to hoping I stop wasting my time online arguing with people lol. In my opinion the drum beat also makes or breaks the emphasis of the song being rock or metal as well. Really wish we could stop trying to justify all sections of metal being under the umbrella technical term: “rock”. Because honestly it’s bogus.
You're welcome. It's a hard thing to define and some of it comes down to personal perception.
I also think they are different categories 👍
Thank you!
You're welcome! thanks for watching.
"We are Motörhead and we play rock and roll."
Rock and roll?? I don't think so...how you concider motor head is seriously?
@@Truthjustice23 indeed.
Awesome SG. How do you like the Epi? What year is it? I'm thinking to pick one up. Great video too - thanks a lot.
Thanks and I like it a lot. I can't afford a real SG but this one feels really good in my hands and sounds cool so I like it.
I just had a debate with a glam metal fan who asserts that Kiss is heavy metal. I obviously don't agree with his assessment, but he claims he knows more than a hard rock or metal expert like Eddie Trunk, who on many occasions has said Kiss is melodic hard rock. Trunk has cited the times when members of Kiss have dropped subtle hints that they were not a genuine heavy metal band. Twisted Sister...are they hard rock or metal? This same glam fan I am debating claims they are.
Kiss is tough...early on, like Alive I era they had some metal moments but overall, I think they are a hard rock band.
Early Twisted Sister sounds mostly metal to me - specially during the Under the Blade era
@@MGdelOeste TS stopped being metal after "Stay Hungry." Their cover of "Leader The Pack" is beyond embarrassing.
Everyone interested in this general topic should cast an eye over the book:
Running with the Devil: Power, Gender and Madness in Heavy Metal Music by Robert Walser.
Particularly the first section that has a musicological analysis of the genre. All the other sociological stuff can be ignored. Music is all that matters haha!!
Additionally, if you're into drone and doom, check out Monolithic Undertow by Harry Sword. (yes, I know. What a brilliant name for a metal writer).
An excellent overview of the drone in all forms of music in fact. A topic I've been banging on about for years. :)
I’ve got that book and I agree it’s a good read especially the early chapters like you mentioned. Thanks for bringing that up!
Fabulous break down of the main points- totally agree. Would love a follow up video. Would the term ‘Heavy Rock’ be identical to ‘Hard Rock’?
Thanks. Hmm..would have to think about "heavy Rock" and "Hard Rock"..I would think they are the same.
heavy rock chugs and hard rock bangs- impulsive response lol
Metal is a martial form of rock. That distinguishes it from hard rock, among the obsession with avoiding Major scale melodies of pop. Lyrical content is also a distinguishing characteristic of the two genres. Metal tends to produce more anthems than hard rock. In many ways, heavy metal is just an anarchistic reaction to what existed, in the same way that punk was reactionary, by its nature.
Interesting to see they types of chords you are using for each example. Hard Rock is using major open chords with roots in the pentatonic minor scale. Heavy Metal uses power chords with roots in the natural minor scale plus the tritone and minor second note you mentioned. Both are forms of chromaticism but used in distinctly different ways.
Metal bands tend to use power chords more but it's not a hard rule.
Just because hard rock has more distortion in its sound. That still doesn't mean that it shares any commonalities with metal music, because even rock can have its own variations in its sound.
So it's true that metal music has a heavier distortion in its sound. But it has way more characteristics than just having heavier distortion. 😶🌫
Thank you for clarifying this, great examples, very informative. Keep rocking buddy :D
Thanks!
I love rock and metal. Rocker and metalhead might call me a fake one or whatever idc ik what i listen to. I can tell like actual heavy vs what ppl think is heavy but im unable to ascertain specific genre. I listen to hard rock and/or metal for like yearss now but i never bother to properly learn the difference. I just listen to whats good to my ears and the instruments and such. Forget hard rock vs heavy metal, i cant tell what a progressive rock should sound like. If i listen ofc i can tell that this rock is a different genre. I just dont know the name. Today im attempting to learn
I think you pretty much nailed the major differences between hard rock and metal. Black Sabbath and Judas Priest are metal. AC/DC and Aerosmith are hard rock. As for some bands... I'd say some are both like The Sweet and KISS.
The Sweet had definetively metal or at least protometal songs in the 70s
@@MGdelOeste Oh yeah. Set Me Free, Sweet FA, Keep It In, etc. Those are' some serious early metal tunes!
okay, I really agree because these two types of music are always discussed, they say, like there's no difference... but they also have lots of opinions, like Lemmy Kilmister once said when he commented about ACDC, ACDC has the same genre as Motörhead, they play hard rock and roll like Motörhead, then for Lemmy heavy metal and hard rock the difference is only in the name, that's Lemmy Kilmister's opinion, there are also local musicians here who comment that hard rock and heavy metal only have the difference in jackets, hard rock uses denim and heavy metal uses leather . but in my opinion, in hard rock music, most of it is mixed with heavy metal, and in heavy metal it is definitely mixed with hard rock. there are many examples of motorhead songs-to good too be true, acdc-hells bells, alice cooper-poison, sabbath-sabbath bloody sabbath, judas priest-rocka rolla, scorpions-big city night. Yes, they are not the same but they merge into one.
Enjoyed that, thanks. I used to discuss this with like minded friends years ago, but as none of us could play anything ( not quite true, I have a friend who is a pretty accomplished drummer), we tended to focus more on subjective aspects (lyrics, image, album sleeve design and so on), so it is interesting to see an objective assessment based on the music itself (albeit I do find my jaw going a bit slack; I have whatever the opposite of musical talent is). Here's a question; Motorhead- Metal or Punk? (jumps into bunker and closes hatch).
Thanks! And I can hear the bombers (pun intended) circling..haha. Well, Lemmy would tell you Motorhead plays rock and roll. They definitely had a punk attitude to what they did but I wouldn't call them a punk band. By the 80s I think they were more Heavy Metal but one could make the argument that their early stuff is just really really heavy hard rock.
@@LairoftheAlchemist For me Motorhead has always sond like a very loud, fast and extreme hard rock band. Behind those double-bass drums and punk influences they have always been very bluesy
What do you think of the sword? Particularly age of winters. Its such a perfect mix of hard rock/metal that i cant tell what it is. What would you say?
Nailed it
And does it also strongly depend on what kind of guitar you have????
Maybe to a degree but not really, I’d say effects and amps have more of an effect.
@@LairoftheAlchemist oh ok thank you!!
I think when u hear hard rock in connection with the music of the doors, its understandable, no one is goin to call their music heavy metal?
I agree
Excellent video..many folks confuse hard rock with heavy metal..sometimes I debate with them
I have nothing against hard rock
But somehow hard rock is taken as heavy metal ,other names glam metal.
And they tend to infiltrate hard rock as metal band.
Which is wrong
But anyway the video tells a lot about the differences.and is brilliant
Thanks, glad you liked it.
I have the same guitar, Epiphone SG!
💯
Thanks
There's an old saying ... if you have to explain it then forget it . Metal is an attitude .. period.
I agree with that...would be fun to do a video discussing the "metal attitude" or lifestyle. It's true that it is a certain mindset.
Hmmm, it doesn't matter. The important thing is, the guitar has to distorted🤘🤘🤘🤘🏴☠️
I used to consider Led Zeppelin heavy metal since they're part of the original unholy trinity, but when I listen closely I ask myself, "really?" Now I agree they are a rock band. Not even hard rock really, just rock, because they have everything--folk, acoustic, hard, metal, etc. You wouldn't call the Beatles "metal" despite a couple metal songs they pioneered, ditto for Jimi Hendrix.
That said, I would consider Van Halen both hard rock AND heavy metal. EVH's style was the holy bible for every heavy metal guitarist of the 80s or really since then. And yes, they have plenty of hard rock riffs too (You Really Got Me cover being a very obvious choice).
Deep Purple I would also say are both hard rock and heavy metal.
Same for Judas Priest.
I agree though that generally the difference lies in the scale choice, with rock being generally blues-based (with certain iconic Chuck Berry licks that we all use) vs metal generally using more melodic options. However, they're not limited to just minor scale. Major scale 3 note per string runs are very common too, as are the different modes of the major scale.
We also see non-modal scales such as harmonic minor and the Egyptian scale appear a lot--e.g. Holy Wars, Powerslave, Creeping Death. Randy Rhoads used the whole tone scale in some of his solos, and some darker bands also favor diminished scale.
Beyond scale choice, technique matters too. Like I said, EVH wrote the book on metal guitar, at least a lot of it, so any finger tapping, 3 note hammer-on/pull-offs, super fast alternate picking, or sweep picking are all heavy metal staples, not as common in rock.
That said, all of this is malleable and there is no clear delineation. Tons of heavy metal uses pentatonic and blues-based riffs and licks; I'm sure there's plenty of rock bands that use major and minor scales too (Think Journey Don't Stop Believing maj based riff or Twisted Sister We're Not Gonna Take it!)
Ultimately it comes down to feel to tell what's more of a hard rock vs heavy metal, but let's face it, if they're one, chances are good more often than not they're also the other.
Compare the Judas Priest cover of "Jonny B. Goode" vs any other version of it to illustrate the difference
Good idea
I’ve always found it interesting that on the song Screaming For Vengeance, the guitar parts during the verses sound way more hard rock than heavy metal. Just the verses though. Am I right?
It usually happens during that early 80s era - thinking about the Invasers riff from Maiden
Definitions change over the years… don’t forget, Jaws was rated PG when it came out.
very true!
What about Hard-Metal and Heavy Rock ?
I would define heavy metal as a hybrid between folk (melody, lyrical themes), neoclassical (musically), romanticism (music and lyrics) and modernism (dissonance, atonality and noise). It is inherently melodic. Remove those elements and you do not have metal.
To me, Whitesnake blends Blues, Hard Rock and Heavy Metal perfectly.
I can agree with that.
To me the song 1 song that sits 50/50 between hard rock and metal would be Devil's Child by Judas Priest.
Absolutely. The same goes for most of those Accept's "AC/DC-ish" songs. And most of the early Saxon songs.
me too for me led zeppelin is hard loud rock n roll.
I think it's interesting that almost everyone bar the most casual of listeners is more and more aware of genres and subgenres these days. Does that also mean people are becoming more discerning? I remember back in the late 70s early 80s there was a lot of the "it all sounds the same" argument made about (what was called at the time) hard rock and metal. Although how any but the most cloth eared could say that Boston sounded like Black Sabbath or Journey like Judas Priest I'll never know.
Nice video, looks like you had fun making it which makes it fun to watch 😊
I'm not so sure. Indulge me with a basketball analogy. In the 60s, 70s, and to some degree 80s you had guards, forwards, and centers (sometimes called posts) in the NBA. In the 90s that expanded to point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward, center. Nowadays, for different reasons, the league is almost position less and the position categories have gone back to being more broad. In short, the NBA went from general categories, to specific categories, to hardly any categories at all (at present). I would say that in music as in basketball categorization works very similarly.
I would also say that in the present day categorization of metal acts is pretty useful, but precise categorization would have been impossible for many of the "hard rock" bands that played in the 70s.
Led Zeppelin is a perfect example as they have songs across several genres 1. Gallows Pole is a folk song 2. Immigrant Song is a "epic metal" song 3. Communication Breakdown and Rock and Roll are hard rock songs 4. Still Loving You is a blues song 5. Bron Y Aur Stomp is kind of country hard rock 6. Stairway to Heaven is impossible to place in a genre.
In the 70s acts like Zeppelin, Queen, and even 70s Judas Priest would be bordering on impossible to categorize with a subgenre label. Whereas, nowadays there are bands that clearly go after one very specific style. Bands like Lamb of God and Halestorm are pretty easy to classify.
The point is it shouldn't matter. People today get too hung up on trying to label bands a certain genre and force them into creative boxes, and all that does is discourage creativity and focus on things that don't matter. I love Boston and Sabbath and Priest, and all three are very distinct yet at the end of the day they're all rock 'n' roll, which is all that matters.
Maiden is mostly hard rock with some prog elements, not Metal IMHO. But it seems to me that all music with overdriven guitars, heavy or fast rythm and lyrics with some serious thematic, they are all labeled METAL!!
There is one band that is Hard Rock and Heavy Metal all at the same time ... it's the only band that I know of that has that 😁 ... DANZIG 😉
OHHHH I EGT IT, disturbed = heavy metal, Guns N’ Roses = heavy rock
for me if you could play the album at the party with casual rock fans and they are ok with it then it's not metal, so ac/dc not metal, led zeppelin not metal but take British Steel by priest it has some rock centric songs but there's a almost equal amount of songs that said partyers would tell you to please skip
That’s a good way to think of it
oh, so its thrash metal, not trash.. thank you.
If your sister likes it, it is hard rock. If not, it is definetely metal!
Hard Rock > Metal 😎🎸🎶
Hard Rock: riffs
Metal: chugs
metal >= thrash?