Yeah, but the ships aren't sinking. These layoffs are occuring in the face of record profits at many companies. I can only speak to Raytheon, but there, they are just trimming the fat. They are hiring at the same time they are getting laid off, and the folks getting laid off really are the less useful folks. Obviously the people getting laid off don't want to view it this way, but think about it from the point of view of someone managing personnel...obviously it is to your benefit to spend less on ineffective workers so you can afford to pay the really important workers more. Retaining the best workers is difficult because they know they are the best. It really is the case that a few special people are responsible for most of the complexity in the systems at Raytheon. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but my intuition tells me it is the same. Not everyone is a hyper obsessive intellectual...but some people are. Most folks just want to make it home to their wife and kids. Nothing wrong with that, but obviously those folks are less useful than the hyper obsessive folks that can just design new systems from scratch and think about this stuff as they fall asleep at night. It makes sense. Lots of cope on this topic. It's OK to not be the best, but no reason to lie to yourself about it.
Here's the problem, though: it does work. You will never not have people around who became successful through that recipe. You just never find out how many there are, or how many tried it that way and experienced failure.
I've been laid off 3 times in my 20 year career and if only it was skills/attitude. These companies now use layoffs to fix their financial messes like over hiring, poor revenue/growth, or just bad decisions from the top that didn't work. God forbid they take a pay cut, forego a bonus, do anything possible to keep the people relying on them working.
I was hired by a company and forced to sign a non-compete. I spent 6 months at this org trying to get projects done and every single tool or platform I recommended for implementation was declined. I sat on my hands for 6 months and was eventually just laid off because "we over hired and have to do a strategic restructuring" It isn't about how competent you are at your job, these organizations have no fucking idea what they want or need. They expect you to come in and revitalize their entire environment without giving you a budget or a director / manager who has any clarity into what the organization can use to make their lives easier. It has nothing to do with attitude or job performance, these orgs are fucking clueless.
I've been a software engineer for around 7 years, and I've been laid off 3 times. It's traumatic, and it always makes me feel like I'm not good enough, despite the companies making it clear in capital letters that it wasn't performance-related or related to anything else but social stuff. All 3 were due to social interactions not panting out. I refuse to work from an office now solely because of this; it's always SOCIAL stuff that ruins it for everybody. Gossip, finger-pointing, people forming inner groups within teams and leaving you out, etc. I have learned that you need to be smiling and radiating good vibes during work hours, you NEED to build rapport and ask people about their weekends and holidays, you also need to make up stories of your own to talk about and never ever talk about your personal life in detail, you cannot disclose that you're a professional IPSC shooter, or that you skate, ride motorcycles or whatever, there will always be people that hate those things and will hate you for having those hobbies, simple as.
@@redesignedlife777 No. But if that were the case, what would be the problem? Your coworkers are not your friends; any personal info you relinquish to them can and will be used against you when the time is right. Just because I'm hyper-social outside of work doesn't mean I have to be hyper-social at the office. What's important is getting the job done and delivering value.
I’ve laid off a ton of people… and have been laid off myself a few times… The best way around this is to have options always available to jump on to, never assume anything is stable.
Or start your own business in a market that is always in demand. I went from corporate drone to starting lawn mowing business. Unless grass stops growing, I'm as stable as it gets.
@@petersuvara yeah, would definitely need to find a new market in a place like that. Thankfully, I love living where there's a lot of greenery so that will never be an issue in my lifetime. If I did live in a city like you mentioned, I'd probably start a business like carpet cleaning, plumbing, or HVAC.
@@petersuvara that's a great business too. I think HVAC would be great in a hot climate. Two of my friends run HVAC out of Phoenix and Dallas and they are doing very well. Both have been in business for less than 5 years and they're easily pulling down 500k net.
That's why I left this insecure software engineering profession after 10 years. I was one of the best coders with consistently excellent performance reviews but when I got laid off my third job in this industry ( I voluntarily left the previous positions to progress my career) I saw that simply being good or even superior in your work, is not going to cut it when it comes to business owners/corporations finding cheaper options ( usually overseas). I decided to go into real engineering and became a civil engineer and never looked back. No lay offs, global work options. Rewarded for work and secure career.
much software is not necessary for society . it's fluff like facebook , instagram , youtube etc. sure it makes revenue and many people use it but no one will die without it.
Getting laid off or fired is like being dumped in a relationship. Best thing to do is take stock of any lessons learnable, not take it too seriously and immediately put the past behind you and move on.
Regarding performance reviews: that's precisely the reason I was caught in a layoff. When I received a negative review, I was sure it was unjust, but I felt so drained and burned out at the time that I didn't dispute it. The lesson I learned was that I should have realized it was time to quit the company myself and look for another opportunity.
It’s such a hard lesson to learn. That’s almost verbatim my story for the last full time job I worked at. I’ve been independent since then. Contracting here and there
@@cody_codes_youtube I'm really looking to switch to contracting. Kind of want my own schedule ,time to do my own projects, and also flexibility to live anywhere. I know it brings a lot more self responsibility, but the trade offs seem worth. Plus I have no debts, house, kids so my personal risk is low at the moment to try it.
They did the same with me and forced me to work in a different department against my will. And there was a hint that they were going to fire me. But this time, I made sure to get official reviews from my colleagues/co-workers.
The nature of software dev roles in companies is you're always working on projects that will make you redundant. Be that dashboards, automation, and now AI - there's no real way around it because that is what the company is making you work on.
That's simply not true. Most companies which develop commercial software desire constant growth in sales, which is driven by on-going support of existing software and development of new features or applications. In a company's ideal future, the development staff would grow several fold to support growing sales of its products.
@@gaiustacitus4242 That's software companies. But there are tons of companies out there for whom software is just a tool. An important and big enough tool that they afford themselves inhouse software departments, but those are generally seen as a cost factor, not a production facility.
As an employee, you cannot make yourself immune from lay-offs. It has nothing to do with your performance nor your dynamics with your team and other teams. It is a business decision done by the board and implemented top down. I'm a former company director, it has nothing to do with the employees, just plain business decision.
It's a naive comment. The company doesn't need a reason to let anyone go. Usually (IMO) if your in the wrong place at the wrong time you're likely to be "downsized" out of the job. It's nothing personal, just business.
Yep. It may be relevant in very few teams or small companies, but in a large company it just comes down and it may be a complete department downsized by a large percentage.
It also has to do with how much you are getting paid. I am an eng manager after 16 or so years as a developer. I have been laid off before because of the company needing to reduce the overhead going into a recession. They were not doing anything needing someone of my caliber and could spend less to hire jr devs for my salary. I did not blame them and they gave me a great recommendation. So "how good you are" can also work against you in terms of what businesses look for when they are stressed on funds.
I have never been laid off but I have consistently seen the best workers laid off around me almost every single time: - The senior engineer with more than 500 patents that probably made the company a billion dollars with these, laid off. - The senior engineer that happens to be the smartest person in the building by far in my opinion laid off. - The hardest working developer who pulls 70-80 hours a week, laid off. - The smart guy who always contributes to novel solutions, laid off because he was making more money than others in the team!. - The average developer that does his work, laid off. - And so many more, I have only seen one person be fired for bad performance. I used to be on the top of performance but completely lost my faith in leadership, in every place I have worked and will stick to just doing the bare minimum, often there is no incentive for performance in this industry and performing well to earn more puts a target on your head for the next layoff. A trend is the person earning the most in the team is often is the next in the chopping block.
For suuuuuuuure dude. Thats probably the worst part of our career. We can do everything right and one bad leader or one bad manager can derail all the preparation you’ve done.
Can u recommend what kind of developer most wanted does it base of cs or jst skills n exp which one mostly required front bk full stack I will be thankful
Excellent advice. I just came across your channel via the RUclips algorithm. I'm 69, been in the IT arena for 44 years; still going strong but do want to slow down in a couple of years. My best to you going forward. I have liked and subscribed to your channel.
This video is good advice. I've been working 36 years in tech. My personal record is 45-1 .. 45 layoffs and got laid off once in 2001 when the company shutdown. Also consider the US has the most expensive tech workers in the world . When a company makes any decision it's almost always because of money. Don't take it personal but that's just the way it is. Try and increase your value to the company beyond your salary and you will have a better chance of survival. That star developer making $350K can easily get cut for someone in eastern Europe making much less because management determined they could replace you with a small development team in Hungary for the same price.
I have been laid off three times too, over the last 35 years. First time I was in my 20s and got a new job in 24 hours. Second time I was 53 and it took 6 months to find a new jobs. Third time was 55 and it took about a month (I had more recent job search experience).
Getting laid off is a big fear for me. I've had four positions. I voluntarily left the first one. Was laid off from the 2nd. (the company later went under) Got laid off my third job. (the parent company closed the subsidiary I was working for) Now I'm at my fourth position, and I worry that people will feel like I'm not a good engineer because of past lay offs...
It is only business. Do not take it personally. Keep your CV up to date and do not, I repeat, do not shotgun search new job. 10 to 20 well placed applications will have much better yield than 200 to 300 hip fires. And if your CV is really good you do not have to apply at all - the employers and headhunters will contact you first. Talking of experience (from all of mentioned situations).
No one feels that way a good engineer will ALWAYS get caught off in some management bullshit If your current performance is good enough then they have no reason to care about your past
Companies come and go, as do projects. The majority of layoffs are driven by changes in business direction, problems with revenue generation, and other factors outside of the control of affected personnel. Managers have been through the same thing, so they understand.
I've been laid off 6 times: 2002 ... for coming in late too often 2004 ... company lost contract and everyone let go 2007 ... laid off in part of group cut from downsizing team 2016 ... laid off because new manager switched prog. language 2019 ... laid off for performance reasons 2022 ... company lost contract and everyone let go
Curious about 2019 Were you a poor performer because they didn’t give you the chance to prove yourself or did they lay you off because they didn’t value what you’ve done?
@@morpheusFromZion No it was a remote position and we had a long lull in the work that needed to be done and serval times I was caught unavailable when the rare request from the client needed to be worked on (I was sleeping or out on an errand).
@@jordixboycause if you don’t have the knowledge of that language, it’s syntax and practices, well what use are you? Unless you can adapt, as moronic as it is from the manager, you can’t just be sat their paid doing nothing
I’m in support of you i got laid off a few months ago. I truly believe i was vital to the project. I was just getting expensive and they replaced me with a junior
Oooof. Yeah you can do everything perfect, but it takes just one bad management decision to ruin it all. That sounds like a strategic mistake on their part.
Thankfully I didn't learn web development to get a job, I wanted to learn the skill and build things.... YOU KNOW the REAL reason to learn a skillset like this. Google and co is not going to stop me from learning and building.
I got laid off because the startup was having financial issues and the results of my work could keep the company without my role for quite a while with little to no support. I was a UX Engineer who laid the design groundwork along with a very well documented internal design system/UI Component library for the devs to consume. I think If my job was subpar, perhaps I would still be there now, ironically.
Job market is tough right now. We went through this last year. It’s important to keep trying and keep interviewing positively. Use all your network. All the best!!
My dad is like this. He thinks anyone who gets laid off is an under performer cause he's never been laid off. He's a boomer, so I don't even try to argue with him.
@johnjakson444 I mean the boomer mindset, not just their age. I've met some great, supportive elders. My dad is... a difficult individual to get along with in any context.
If he is a Boomer, or even Gen-X, he needs to reevaluate his thinking. Older workers have a massive target on their back, regardless of performance. Age discrimination laws are routinely ignored because true age discrimination is hard to prove. The next lay-off could include your dad and the stoner intern that never shows up for work and the company could claim that they treated everyone equally.
Thanks for the encouraging video. I also got laid off in October last year from my previous role, despite being one of the software engineers behind impactful projects that increased company revenue. This experience greatly demoralized me, but it also helped me understand the brutal nature of layoffs. In my case, the company, with its small engineering team, opted to keep engineers who had been with the team longer. I had been with the company for a year and a half and was the only mid-level software engineer on a team mostly comprised of senior engineers. Despite the challenges, I am glad I learned from the experience. After a long period of seven months, I landed my new/current role. The job market is incredibly tough right now, but to anyone in a similar position, don't give up! and make proper use of your networks!
Great advice. Sometimes, you just get laid off though, so don’t take it personally. Just do your best. My company was acquired by another company and the first thing they did was dissolve the majority of our team, including directors and management that had been there for several decades and all performed well. Acquisitions come with downsizing and moving work overseas to fit budget constraints and make the final deal more appealing from a financial standpoint. The real key is staying on top of your skills and developing new ones so you’re marketable in the future when the rug gets pulled from underneath you.
I think you got it completely right. The closer you are to the money as an engineer, the better off you are. Not just because of revenue, but also because of the critical nature of the work. It will also provide you the opportunity to work in an environment where there is urgency and sometimes scale (could be number of users served, transaction speed, number of queries ...). I was laid off for being "overpaid" in a division that could essentially be outsourced as a third party provider to the company
As someone that is at the ownership level, their comment is truly insane like you say. It really is about limited resources and making a lot of tough choices. I've never had to let anyone go but I've been really lucky. But I'm also a programmer, been doing it for 30 years. I've been laid off twice and it hurt for a little bit. But I agree - The best way to look at work in general is to understand it's all temporary. You will eventually leave or you'll get let go. Companies change, markets change, things are always moving. Protect yourself with a nice cushion of cash and always be ready.
Experiencing a layoff for the second time in a little over two years into my career has been challenging. If you feel that you are not learning or growing in your current company, it's wise to start looking for opportunities at other companies that offer meaningful work and opportunities for professional development. It's crucial to be proactive in finding a good company that aligns with your career goals; otherwise, you might find yourself unexpectedly laid off without any notice.
Good workers get caught up in bad business situations all the time. Don’t get down on yourself. Many times something better is around the corner for you.
The #1 lesson I have learned in corporate America, working as a software engineer, is...have a friendly immediate supervisor. If you have any friction with your boss, you are DONE. 💀
Here’s the most accurate and helpful gem a recruiter shared with me. Two things will get you fired. Not being good enough at your job and… being too good at your job. The trick is to be mediocre. I’m in my mid-50’s and have had a career that span 4 industries. This is exactly what I have observed to be true. Merit has nothing to do with reward in the corporate world. It’s a game and not a meritocracy.
@@cody_codes_youtube You probably have but it was just couched as “that person isn’t a team player… they don’t share with their peers….they aren’t a good fit”. These are all euphemisms for “they know more than me and I’m threatened by them.” Obviously management never comes out with “that person is more qualified than me and I’m afraid they’ll outshine me and take my job.”
@@Mary-tj5qx oh no worries. I can definitely speak the corporate passive aggressive terminology. I know what you’re saying happens. Objectively I have not seen what you’re saying happen. I just wonder how often and what industries it actually happens.
As someone that has sat on the side of the table that had to lay people off, a lot of times, the beancounters are the ones making the decisions, and they'll literally just cut the most expensive people. No care about whether those people are critical for some reason, the sole metric is "how much are they costing the company". I've had a key member of my team get laid off because he made more... but he made more because he's been doing this for 20 years and had the most seniority within my ~200 person org. A senior distinguished engineer with something like 30 filed patents with our company. Dude was likely (at some level) responsible for like $100M in revenue... but cut because his salary was far above everyone else in that org. Was the stupidest decision.. they tried replacing him with some jackass in India that had a similar resume... dude's skill didn't even come close, and we've directly lost money due to this dumb-shit decision - especially since dude picked up a job at a competitor.
I'm surprised more people don't go postal at these heartless corporations. Especially when you know the company is doing well just want their stock price to go up.
I was laid off twice and nearly fired twice. Out of all situations it’s never been directly related to performance. There’s more nuance to employment than just doing the job. There’s soft skills, the rapport with management, company margins, overpaying someone, and unfortunately the project you work on. You can’t choose which projects you work on once brought on board.
True. The power you have in the situation is marginal. However the longer you work there, the more mobility and agency you can use to try and make yourself more valuable
I've been laid off several times in this industry, this most recent time being the worst since the job market is so tough. The best way to avoid being laid off is to be your own boss. That comes with other challenges, but at least you aren't dependent on one company and have more control. Recently found your channel. Good luck to you moving forward from this!
Agree with everything said. I would add more thing, however: Do not allow your self-worth to hinge on your job. There's an infinity of reasons why people get laid off. Sometimes their fault, sometimes someone else's, sometimes no reason at all. The best thing you can do when it happens, like @CodyCodes obviously did, is some deep introspection. He did it out loud in public on youtube, but it can just as well be private and something you keep to yourself. The hard part is not to get wound up and allow your emotions to run the show entirely-- that's MUCH easier to do if you have the distance that comes with not couching your self-worth in your job/employment.
In my experience on most startups your relationship with your boss is far more relevant as an indicator of whether you will be laid off than any skill you might have. A terrible employee might be laid off regardless, but a mediocre employee will keep his job over an excellent one if his boss likes him.
Very true. And there is another way to spin that kind of relationship. You want your management to have faith and rapport with you that you can get the work done. And that they are able to communicate easily with you. So if that relationship is good, then it is a valid metric for keeping someone
@@cody_codes_youtube sure, that's the positive aspect of it. But also, sometimes you just click with your manager, or don't. Or you may have a toxic boss and be unwilling to put yourself through what others will accept. But of course if it's bad enough you should leave before you get laid off.
@@gojiraindahhood oh for sure. I didn’t say that, I’m just saying it’s the one thing in your control you can try to work on. It should improve your chances, but you could still get wiped out.
Yep, work hard, give away your best ideas so the man on the top gets richer and you get to keep grinding from 9 to 5….oh and they probably will need you to come in Sunday…mmmkay. Here is my take… learn the business, leave, start competing business. Don’t give your ideas for base salary. That’s all the upper management is looking for… to suck you dry.
i reduced labor from 56 workers to 22 by going from batch processing assembly to assembly line, and still got laid off. The only thing that matters is how much your direct superior likes you personally
It's definitely not the only thing that matters, but it's the one small thing that could sink you if you ignore it entirely. We are still weird social animals at the end of the day
Anyone that has been in the corporate work world for any length of time at all knows that nobody is safe from lay-offs. Nobody. The hardest working, most valuable person on the team may actually have a bigger target on their back as they may have a higher salary than a mediocre performer. And don't believe for a minute that popularity doesn't factor into who stays and who goes. The people that post those comments about competent people not being laid off just haven't been around long enough to be in the cross-hairs.
What's sad and crazy about this is everyone is trying to find solutions on how to deal with this type of letting go instead of revolting and speaking up that we deserve to feel stable at a job. I appreciate you all for the kind of advice to "always be looking" "always keep your guard up", but aren't we tired of having to work around their rules? Why haven't we thought about ways to create our own contracts that these companies would need to abide to? Is it because none of you feel its realistic?
I mean, anything is possible. But that’s such a huge challenge and rolls up to labor unions. In America, that’s just how labor is set up currently. Also, the contract I signed was set up this way, and I knew that going into it. That’s some of the appeal of the work I do. The appeal is I get paid a bit more, come in and do the work for mostly a short time, and they have the flexibility to change direction. So I’m signing up for more instability for more cash.
You know I hate it when people say things like "I don't think any decent programmer will be laid off" or "If you were good you wouldn't have been laid off" or "If you're a good programmer you'll have no problem finding work" (which is generally true in a normal economy but even then people struggle) because its so ignorant and tone deaf. It's stupid. It's as if people think the only reason you can get laid off is for performance reasons. I have a ton of experience and I've been laid off since August 2023. Trying to start my own business right now and so far I'm only getting a little bit of traction. Still applying to jobs with no luck so far. Hopefully something turns up soon. BTW love your channel!
I have 15 years of experience in software engineering and many times I have seen top performers and guys who got 3 consecutive CEO excellence awards being laid off. It is a more of a financial decision since the top performers would also be top earners because of the raises they get for performance.
For sure. It’s a hard balance to strike. And that starts getting into the politics game, showing how your value is irreplaceable. But one other thing is, if you are a top performer, then a layoff shouldn’t be a death sentence. There’s no doubt a tip performer can perform at the same level for the next company
@@cody_codes_youtube yes you are right , top performers have no problem getting hired again. Many a times a layoff is a blessing for them since I saw many switch to better roles and pay which they previously did not pursue due to stability in their job and family commitments.
The older you get, the more it happens. Young (always micro-managers) can't deal with people more experienced than themselves. Try not to work with "managers" who are younger than you.
The converse is even more true and common. Older workers who can’t stand young, driven grads. Young managers are rare. I personally find the insufferable micromanagers have more to do with personality disorders rather than age/generation/ethnicity. They are controlling and have trouble trusting others. Age does not fix this problem because it’s a personality/psychological issue.
@@mecanuktutorials6476 I disagree. You're implying that younger workers are more driven than older workers. Younger workers live with their parents or in bachelor apartments and party 3 nights a week. Older workers have actual responsibilities (family, mortgage). Younger workers are simply naive, entitled and speak when they should listen. Regarding managers; Yes, some older mangers are micromanagers, but experience should teach a manager that professionals don't need to be controlled like livestock (or beginner developers). Experienced managers delegate and have respect for their team, while younger managers think they are "leaders" and dictate (micro-manage), and lash out at anyone with independent thought or actions. Also, young managers are not rare. Those who can't actually do anything become "managers".
There will come a point in your career where this advice is mathematically impossible unless you want to climb the ladder all the way to the top, which not everyone can or wants to do.
@@not_ever The point is experienced managers delegate and treat their team with respect, while inexperienced managers think they are Genghis Khan and dictate and micro-manage. Stay away from younger (know nothing) "managers".
I was laid off earlier this year. I was friendly with my manager and team and constantly received positive feedback, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't performance related. But not being able to find something else yet definitely made me question if I want to stay in tech, and my skillset in general. Every point you made was spot on. Specifically the work log piece because half the time I forget what I've worked on to add to the resume!
Cody.. like to know what you are doing today to find that next role. I too was laid off a few months ago and the market is so awful.. I am getting 0 responses from any job application. Every opportunity seems to have 100+ applicants within minutes of a posting. I feel like the software developer role is so oversaturated right now that it may be a year or more before jobs might be available. I don't know exactly what I am missing on.. keywords, etc to bypass the AI filters that are likely kicking me to the curb where I cant even get a phone call.. and no doubt recruiters no longer calling/emailing are because the market is flooded with layoffs from all sorts of tech company's. Frankly I really want to start my own company.. but finding a UI expert (I am a backend guy with APIs, etc) and possibly a business person to seek funding.. I have no clue how to do that either. Been doing a bit of googling.. and I know my idea has the potential to be good (maybe not big.. but good) because I've spoken to many developers the past year who said it would be amazing and very useful tool. Yet.. taking it from the idea and working slowly on a prototype.. and figuring out how to work on the UI (I know a little but not very good with it) and then somehow come up with a pitch, and get in front of people that may provide some seed round funding.. that is what my tech chops never taught me.
Companies were complaining that we need more and more coders. Import and export to India etc etc. Then they layoff 100's of thousands. Something is wrong with this strategy.
Your points are really good points, and sometimes you do get laid off no matter what, especially if you are working at a vulnerable startup. But let's be honest, the majority of workers are not key to the business, and that is usually why they get laid off. No reason to fib about it. Many people aren't obsessed with their craft and just want to make it home to their kids. There is really nothing wrong with that, but we don't need to pretend they are useful as the folks obsessed with their craft. We feed people too much cope. "Get really good" really would be the cure for most people most of the time. The points you laid out are a good roadmap for that
I completely agree with you. Obsessing on the craft above all else is not my path. But I think it’s valuable to lay out the paths and the options for those who may want to focus on that part of their life for a minute. You know what I mean?
Crazy times, man. At least you turned one of those vomit comments into good content for your channel, good for you. I was under the impression that your had several freelance steady jobs, but losing your main source of income is always painful. Hope the market gets back to normal soon and you find something else quickly.
Yeah, I’m not going to zero, I have some part time work, so I can mostly support the family. I have some leads already that are good so I’m not worried!
Screw all that. The best way to not get laid off is to want to get laid off. I’ve never been laid off in my entire 30 year career. It’s because I’ve always had a plan B, C, D. I want to get laid off so i can get severance and spin up my other options. But it never happens. One time I did get put on layoff status, but the very next day 7 divisions in the company offered me pay increases to work for them. I said, screw that, took my severance package and executed plan B which was to consult for them for double the pay. All I can say is, always have leverage. When you have leverage people can sense it. When you’re afraid, people can sense that too.
You’re not wrong. You’re just talking overly aggressive. There’s nuance to both ways, and I agree with you. But that’s not the only way to operate in your career
Totally agree with the things you can control. Being part of the bone and not the fat! I only recently joined IT, first as SAP 2nd line support and then as backend engineer. Before that I changed my roles every 2 years, and worked in multiple different aspects of the business, to the point now after 12 years that it makes me a good SME. The things you can control not only save you from layoffs but it's the trust/respect you capitalize as you move through your career. I would have never been accepted for an internal developer role if it wasn't for years of improving things in the company with excel and VBA hahaha always provide value for free up front, it will be rewarded
My entire department was laid off before I was. I was loved by every layer of management through VP. They wanted to put me on special projects and everything. But at some point, I couldn't take it. I wasn't just running my department. I felt like I was running my entire program at this point. I was doing not only what was my manager's job, but my VP's job. On top of my own. And I couldn't handle it anymore. So I quit. The Thursday of the week I quit there was another round of layoffs. By two months later, everyone in my entire management chain from VP down was gone. If I didn't quit when I did, I would have just been laid off a few months later
people are always quick to jump to conclusions, never understanding full circumstances. Let me enlighten you folks, because most of you just don't get it. Some reasons why you can get laid off even if you're a good programmer : 1. office politics, manager likes his little social club and chooses to fire you instead of his buddies. 2. manager personally dislikes you for some reason for example he's not as smart as you, feels like you're making him look bad during discussions etc etc. 3. project fails because client makes dumb requirements and management disagrees when you object. In the end you're the scapegoat. That's just a few reasons from real life that I've witnessed when actually competent developers were let go and instead people who shouldn't even be there were kept.
You are correct. We are responsible for what we can take action on. Other people’s actions and decisions are not in your control. The only time it is you is if the layoff is because of performance reasons. This should be a timely process with your manager. Many layoffs take place because of business/economical reasons. And, for many large companies you are just one small part in a conveyor belt to produce a product. If it happens never take it personally, exit gracefully, learn from the experience, and turn the page into the future. You might be better off in the long run.
Here's some advice from someone that started outside of tech that moved into it in the last 5 years. This is a problem everywhere, but I've noticed it's really common in anything related to highly specialized STEM fields. The sooner that you change your mentality about your "job" from being tasks-oriented to being a holistic participant at the company, the better you'll be when layoffs come around. Your "job" is more than just the tasks you do in the day-to-day execution of your primary responsibilities where you work. It is more than producing code, designing algorithms, machining parts, turning wrenches, collecting data, etc. You are not a literal machine with a single functionality. That's why applications and interviews check for things like ability to work with others, foresight, drive and passion, desire to continue learning and growing, ability to think globally, etc. They might try to work you like a machine on the day-to-day, but they expect you to be a complete person and participate as a complete person.
I don't agree that my advice was the same as his. With that thought process, you could only say, "Just Do Better", and think that would cover it. I provided real applicable goals and strategies for becoming someone who actually be key in the business. Sure you could just roll that up and say it's the same as "attitude and skill upgrades", but that would be more than worthless advice. And you're completely right about your assessment. It's just not as apparent as every other career advice you get in software. Too many people focus on tools, leetcode, and technology, where more value could be gained by taking a step back and knowing the full picture and gaining those other soft skills
@@cody_codes_youtube There is a meaningful difference between specific approaches to general advice and just the general advice itself, so I admit I was being reductive. I apologize for that. I edited my original comment. I think it's not just software. I'm adjacent to software now, and people are still very tasks-oriented where I'm at and the advice they get on how to stay relevant is still things like, "get your PE/get X certification" or "learn Y skill" or "work on Z project". There's a lot of advice about how to get yourself into your next job and not even how to keep the current one. Very little advice on how to grow within a certain job, let alone the field overall. That to me is a signal that there was a bubble and now it's popping.
@@cajonesalt0191 oh yeah. I completely agree. And I feel like that mentality has been pervasive for decades too. You could even say “get a college degree, and a good company will set you up for 40 years”. I think we should all be self aware and knowledgeable about what we are doing, how we are getting paid, and there is an ongoing purge of “look at my high paying FAANG lifestyle “ vs. “look at the cool things I built and did to move forward my career and the business that pays my salary”. I’m not a company man, but I am one that will always try to find the value in what I’m doing
Was fired some years ago. They fired me, but they had nobody to do the software programming. So I worked as a consultant 2 years to end the project. The customer wanted me to do the program.
Sorry about your layoff, mate, but from what it sounds like, this is rampant in the IT industry, yeah? That said, is it really all that advantageous to be loyal to IT employers? Or is it better to use that time to hone one's skills, and learn other skills to use in future? I've been studying InfoSec/Cybersecurity since 2010, and learned a lot. The best thing I've learned is this: I never want to be employed in the IT field. Don't get me wrong, I'm damn good at IT. Hell, I've taught myself Linux and can work on the terminal just as easy as in the CMD prompt, but I still never want to be an IT employee. That said, I've decided to be an Independent Writer [have 40 years writing experience] with a focus on IT. Will I lay myself off one day. Perhaps, but only when I have enough in savings to last me until I breathe my last breath. All the best, cheers.
Thanks brother. And yeah, I’ve started making moves to be fulling independent of companies. Not quite there yet, but it’s definitely a stressful way of life!
I recently got laid off. I was a contract music teacher working at City University of New York, CUNY for 5 years. I had the right attitude, great student feedback, and student retention. However, due to budget cuts, I lost the gig. In 2022, I landed a contract as web developer at a FANG company, and after the program ended, we were promised a renewal or help to get another job. But we got ghosted. Around that time was when they had the big tech layoff of late 2022-2023. Been working a minimum wage job for the last 8 months and I’ve been getting rejection after rejection for software development and teaching. However, i got a few offers for teaching, but it was in another state. And I did a couple of technical interviews with some heavy hitters, but didn’t make it past all three rounds. It’s tough out here. Your videos are helping me to cope. Thank you for sharing.
I'm 35, in hardware engineering space and over the last few years, experienced 3-4 rounds of layoff that thank god I dodged. I was an avg designer, but it really was luck rather than any merit that kept me employed. Who they layoff, mainly due to financial: 1. Location Based: Branches outside main branching closing, maybe easier to manage and report taxes 2. Function Based: Group no longer a priority for company, so just close entire group. Very rarely is it because of performance because top level manager don't want to look at performance, too much work. And PIP is always an option before layoff because performance based layoff often require replacement and that really sucks up time/resources. Some of our major project experienced significant delays because during production time, top level had the smart idea to reduce team by 50% for cost, and decided easiest way is to lay off non-main branch engineers. Some 20+ year tech leads were gone and the project was transferred to a recent college grad who waived all errors and then left for another company. Later we found out none of the errors were fixed, just waived to get the job done and all that had to be re-done so they rehired tech-leads they just laid off. -.- The fucking clown show never ends.
I’m an aerospace Tooling Engineer and I’ve been laid off once, twice if you count a contract position not being renewed, in 17 years. All the other job changes were my idea, and I’ve had a lot of job changes. Being laid off after logging 100 hour weeks and nearly getting divorced from the neglect at home really changed things. I don’t ever plan to work that hard again because I’ve been burned.
Absolute truth on all points. I have been in meetings to decide who will get laid off or not and managers do try to save the ones that do all of these regardless if its already financially bad for the company to retain them.
Layoffs I've been involved with are more about deleting whole sections of the business and teams. Nothing to do with performance. More to do with retiring legacy software and bringing team and business units in line with company strategy. So for me it's about being on the right team. Not working with legacy software or bleeding edge speculative projects, but rather the BAU bread and butter projects that bring in the money.
Truth. Those are two different accounting buckets too. Maintenance vs new offerings. I think new software can be tax advantaged more than maintaining the existing beast
Speaking as a former hiring manager, lesson 3 is critical. That's how we make these decisions. We want to cut the people who contribute less to the bottom line than their compensation, and if you don't know where the bottom line comes from, you're completely in the dark about where you are in that conversation.
One more thing that you haven’t covered is that salary is basically a very big factor in cutting people. If someone is higher paid than their peers and not a management favorite, they’ll get a bad performance review that is totally fabricated as pretext for getting rid of them in the next round. This is so common as to be the norm.
In a recent project they decided to lay off the most experienced to reduce costs. When the two most experienced developer contracts were to renew, they decided not to, wanting to hire permanent staff. In the past they had hired contractors as they couldn’t get any permanent to join….
You're still doing well, as you've been laid off by one company. I have been laid off by the whole world, not being able to land a new gig on upwork since 2 months despite having a perfect 5 stars 100% score.
@@cody_codes_youtube Yes, I lowered them from very low (34) to ludicrously low (25). Interestingly one day after my complaint here - 7 weeks after I finished my last job - I got approached by 3 potential clients, albeit no contract yet.
There is nothing an employee can do to avoid being caught up in layoffs, as most factors which drive layoffs are outside of the control of employee or employer.
From a software dev pov, I have a huge problem w/ your thought process, no company should need you. Imo any company that "deeply" needs someone should get rid of that person sooner rather than later. Because that person believes they should hold onto all their knowledge as opposed to sharing it. I work with the mindset I should be expendable, and I shouldn't drag my team or my company down with me no matter how little the company cares about me. Employee and Employer is a transactional fee, they're not families.
That’s overloading the relationship and also thinking of people working with only malice. You don’t have to be a family, but you can work harmoniously together. There are obviously bad situations, companies and teams, and it sounds like that’s what you’ve experienced. And I’m sorry that’s why you think that way
First off, thank you so much for making this video, Cody. 😊👍👍. It's such an important topic, especially now with AI becoming more and more relevant. I was the only one who noticed that our databases across every system were in trouble and about to crash. Did I get any respect for that? Nope. Instead, the team leader blamed me for the whole thing. I even helped the company bring in an extra $5 million and sometimes saved them from having to pay that much in fines. And each time, all I got was a kick in the ass and questions like, 'Would you be okay with a pay cut?' But when it came to thanking me for my help? Nothing. Not even a simple 'thank you,' which is fine-I don’t need that. But where's the respect? I'm done with it. P.S. When I led a small team for a year or two, I’d always say, 'I have an awesome team. That’s why we succeeded.' And if something went wrong, I’d take the blame and say, 'That’s on me.' That’s how it should be, as long as it makes sense. Here’s what I did for them: - Automated their tests in ways they didn’t even think were possible. - Saved them from lawsuits related to the database issue. - Made their systems secure. - Developed tons of tools they needed to solve problems that didn’t have solutions. - Came up with ideas that saved them $80k per device. And what did I get? Someone else claimed credit for the patents and said they invented it. etc. I would’ve always appreciated it if someone had more knowledge and experience than me. But there wasn’t anyone. Nowadays, it feels like the younger ones aren’t interested in diving deep. They want quick, surface-level knowledge in a bunch of areas. It's wide but not deep. I’m not bitter about life, but I’m done with this company. After doing all that work and getting treated like this? No way. Sometimes I feel like they’re saying, 'Hey, asshole. Do this. Hurry up.' They don't say it, but the tone and attitude suggest it. So yeah, I’m job hunting. :-) 😂 I don’t wish this on anyone. Don’t let them fool you. If you make a mistake, okay, they’re right. But not if you’re doing all the things I mentioned above. Here’s the positive takeaway I want to share: - Reflect on yourself. You might not be bad at what you do-in fact, you might be so good that people feel threatened, and that’s why they treat you like crap. At my previous company, we had an amazing team leader-one of the best I’ve ever had. But COVID hit, and things went downhill because of management’s 'great ideas.' LOL. If you’re really passionate about this field and love learning because it fascinates you, chances are you’re great at it. And if they don’t see you as a threat, they’ll keep you small, because otherwise, they might have to pay you more. Just something to think about, to give you a positive outlook. Have a great day, and good luck finding something where your hard work gets rewarded. And again, thanks for sharing this video. 👍👍
I just laid off one of my engineers. He was the highest paid, but lowest performing and least technically competent in the team. Turns out he was wrongly hired into a senior role by a recruitment blunder that my predecessor was too timid to fix.
Over almost 50 years of engineering I've been laid off maybe a dozen times, not once was it about me. A couple of companies went bankrupt, projects or whole divisions were dropped, government contracts canceled, and the next to last time management of a system I'd built over about ten years was moved to India, and I didn't want to move there 😊
All correct reasons. Having said that, it is imperative for people to learn that it is only a job. Do not ever sacrifice your health, wellbeing, family etc. and devote to a job assuming you will be taken care by a corporation.
Absolutely correct. I think it’s okay to hustle, if you are able and excited to, but by and large, we are just getting paychecks for smashing keyboards all day. I don’t take this as my identity.
The only job you will never be fired from is the one you quit. Your partners can even fire you from your own company. Not understanding that only indicates a person's lack of experience. The best way to avoid being fired is to be constantly looking for a new job, I'm not saying changing, but measuring your value in the market and of course, if there is a better opportunity, especially if you already have more than 2 years in the same position and without opportunities to grow MOVE TO ANOTHER JOB!
I worked as Full stack Software developer (my main work), AI Research n Development (additional work for the same company), Video Producer, Director and 3D Artist (additional work for the same company) all in the same job. And i got laid off. And i had 100 hours unpaid overtime in the last 6 months. And i was task switching daily (3-4 tasks a day between projects).
Layoffs are by definition not related to skills. They are cost cutting measures. A company will keep a lower skilled lower paid worker who charges work to a high profit client over a higher skilled highly paid worker. It's pure bean counting.
It can be. But the subjective assessments do come into play too. If there is an employee that is pretty good, but makes everyone’s lives miserable, they are probably gone
Bruh. I got laid off in the height of my career. I was leading the technical direction of a feature that touched many different domains (they green lit my technical doc), I fixed 300k rows in prod that wasn't my fault by writing a migration script in ruby (I didn't even know ruby so I had to learn on the fly), and I was loaned out to another team for a week because they personally requested me since I was trusted to do the work. And I did do the work in a week. The very next Monday I was laid off lmao. Everyone was shocked because it's not about performance. It's about who you know. I was told before they laid me off, staff/principle engineers and managers tried to vouch for me and convince the vp to keep me. My manager thought I was safe that very day. It doesn't matter anyway. After my old employer found out I was available, they snatched me up. I won't have any politic issues anymore because I actually know the upper management in my old job. I'm good.
That’s awesome! That’s great to hear. And you’re completely right. Sometimes upper levels have knowledge of the trenches and often they don’t. Sometimes your manager can save you. Sometimes not. All you can focus on is what you can control
I am sorry to hear this happened to you. I don't work in I.T. but I've worked in professional environments such as Legal, banking and that comment made to you was unjustified. He doesn't know the circumstances which actually took place.
I just got laid off. At my job, we had mandated pair programming (all day every day). They called a group of us into a video call and terminated us effectively immediately. It was really nice to see that the people I paired with, who just sat without saying a word while I did all of the work during our pairing sessions, were not part of the group that was laid off. Yeah, I guess I wasn't delivering.
Pair programming and the business have always had a rough relationship. If you don’t have buy in from the higher ups, you could be a target just from that practice. I pair programmed all day every day for about 4 years. But that was baked into the companies DNA
40 years in mechanical engineering and I can say, it's no different there. Where you're gonna be in the following week is always up to the suits upstairs. I'm not sure though if you can influence that in anyway. Suits usually haven't a clue what's going on at the work front, they just see what you're costing the company. They're bean counters who often don't understand the technology or value of your work for the company. Just look what is happening at BOEING. They laid off older staff because they cost the company more and lost the years of experience that these people represent.
Yeah. It’s not perfect but I try and encourage people to do what they can and what’s in their power. Most of my career, the higher ups have been software engineers before, but then again it’s been a long time since I’ve worked at a company the size of Boeing as an example.
Good video. I will say that it’s not always good to hang on tho. Been laid off twice and tendered my resignation twice over the past 34 years. One resign was the business moving out of state. They wanted me at the new company but I didn’t want to leave. Other time was due to new management running the organization into the ground. Half the core management and front line followed me out the door and the org was no more within six months.
Absolute heater
Thanks Coach!
Like an ICBM
Of course if you ask the reason to the people who get laid off they will cheer themself. Ask the entrepreneur point of view.
@@87911 ... and the entrepreneurs point of view is absolutely unfallable and neutral?
You could be the best cook in a restaurant on a ship, but if that ship is sinking you are still going down.
Accurate!
or you do beyond what a cook would do, make the ship unsinkable : )
you do wielding
@@lucasjiang948 Yes, take over the ship and become the new captain..
*Captain Cook!*
Yeah, but the ships aren't sinking. These layoffs are occuring in the face of record profits at many companies. I can only speak to Raytheon, but there, they are just trimming the fat. They are hiring at the same time they are getting laid off, and the folks getting laid off really are the less useful folks.
Obviously the people getting laid off don't want to view it this way, but think about it from the point of view of someone managing personnel...obviously it is to your benefit to spend less on ineffective workers so you can afford to pay the really important workers more. Retaining the best workers is difficult because they know they are the best. It really is the case that a few special people are responsible for most of the complexity in the systems at Raytheon. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but my intuition tells me it is the same. Not everyone is a hyper obsessive intellectual...but some people are. Most folks just want to make it home to their wife and kids. Nothing wrong with that, but obviously those folks are less useful than the hyper obsessive folks that can just design new systems from scratch and think about this stuff as they fall asleep at night. It makes sense. Lots of cope on this topic. It's OK to not be the best, but no reason to lie to yourself about it.
They are the same people who say "just work hard and you will get a raise".
haha, sure thing! That's all it takes!?
Just work hard and I (your boss) will buy another Ferrari next year 😂
Here's the problem, though: it does work. You will never not have people around who became successful through that recipe. You just never find out how many there are, or how many tried it that way and experienced failure.
@@Volkbrecht The closer to the money you are, the better your rewards for hard work.
@@clementoseitano7568 Not true.
I've been laid off 3 times in my 20 year career and if only it was skills/attitude. These companies now use layoffs to fix their financial messes like over hiring, poor revenue/growth, or just bad decisions from the top that didn't work. God forbid they take a pay cut, forego a bonus, do anything possible to keep the people relying on them working.
Yup. There is much more to the picture than performance
I was hired by a company and forced to sign a non-compete.
I spent 6 months at this org trying to get projects done and every single tool or platform I recommended for implementation was declined.
I sat on my hands for 6 months and was eventually just laid off because "we over hired and have to do a strategic restructuring"
It isn't about how competent you are at your job, these organizations have no fucking idea what they want or need.
They expect you to come in and revitalize their entire environment without giving you a budget or a director / manager who has any clarity into what the organization can use to make their lives easier.
It has nothing to do with attitude or job performance, these orgs are fucking clueless.
Thanks for sharing your story! The over hiring part is bananas. I’ve seen that too
Good thing non competes are going away.
Sounds like a productive 6 months to me. Lol…. Just explore different ideas.
I agree 100%
I would love to sit on hands for 6 months sign me up. How do I get one of those disorganized jobs.
I've been a software engineer for around 7 years, and I've been laid off 3 times. It's traumatic, and it always makes me feel like I'm not good enough, despite the companies making it clear in capital letters that it wasn't performance-related or related to anything else but social stuff. All 3 were due to social interactions not panting out. I refuse to work from an office now solely because of this; it's always SOCIAL stuff that ruins it for everybody. Gossip, finger-pointing, people forming inner groups within teams and leaving you out, etc. I have learned that you need to be smiling and radiating good vibes during work hours, you NEED to build rapport and ask people about their weekends and holidays, you also need to make up stories of your own to talk about and never ever talk about your personal life in detail, you cannot disclose that you're a professional IPSC shooter, or that you skate, ride motorcycles or whatever, there will always be people that hate those things and will hate you for having those hobbies, simple as.
So you’re part of the anti social social club huh? Lol
@@redesignedlife777 No. But if that were the case, what would be the problem? Your coworkers are not your friends; any personal info you relinquish to them can and will be used against you when the time is right. Just because I'm hyper-social outside of work doesn't mean I have to be hyper-social at the office. What's important is getting the job done and delivering value.
@@habibsspirit mad cause people don’t like you.
@@ishmaelimerica8261 oh u mad, u mad. Grow up kiddo.
Thank you for sharing and watching!
I’ve laid off a ton of people… and have been laid off myself a few times…
The best way around this is to have options always available to jump on to, never assume anything is stable.
Or start your own business in a market that is always in demand. I went from corporate drone to starting lawn mowing business. Unless grass stops growing, I'm as stable as it gets.
@@StTrina or people start living in townhouses with no yards. Like they are in Australia. 😅
@@petersuvara yeah, would definitely need to find a new market in a place like that. Thankfully, I love living where there's a lot of greenery so that will never be an issue in my lifetime. If I did live in a city like you mentioned, I'd probably start a business like carpet cleaning, plumbing, or HVAC.
@@StTrina my dad runs a cleaning business.
@@petersuvara that's a great business too. I think HVAC would be great in a hot climate. Two of my friends run HVAC out of Phoenix and Dallas and they are doing very well. Both have been in business for less than 5 years and they're easily pulling down 500k net.
That's why I left this insecure software engineering profession after 10 years. I was one of the best coders with consistently excellent performance reviews but when I got laid off my third job in this industry ( I voluntarily left the previous positions to progress my career) I saw that simply being good or even superior in your work, is not going to cut it when it comes to business owners/corporations finding cheaper options ( usually overseas). I decided to go into real engineering and became a civil engineer and never looked back. No lay offs, global work options. Rewarded for work and secure career.
Thanks for your story! I appreciate you taking the time to
Engineering has layoffs too. If your bozo PM lost the $40 million project, you're not going to be paid to sit around for very long.
much software is not necessary for society . it's fluff like facebook , instagram , youtube etc. sure it makes revenue and many people use it but no one will die without it.
Aaaye! I'm a civil engineer too! Environmental actually 🎉 cheers to job security
Getting laid off or fired is like being dumped in a relationship. Best thing to do is take stock of any lessons learnable, not take it too seriously and immediately put the past behind you and move on.
That’s very true
You just made me realize that i'm reacting the exact sane destructive way.
Gotta change that
Regarding performance reviews: that's precisely the reason I was caught in a layoff. When I received a negative review, I was sure it was unjust, but I felt so drained and burned out at the time that I didn't dispute it. The lesson I learned was that I should have realized it was time to quit the company myself and look for another opportunity.
It’s such a hard lesson to learn. That’s almost verbatim my story for the last full time job I worked at. I’ve been independent since then. Contracting here and there
you can never win by disputing it. just look for another job. You will be happier working at another company
@@Theaverageazn247 that’s it!
@@cody_codes_youtube I'm really looking to switch to contracting. Kind of want my own schedule ,time to do my own projects, and also flexibility to live anywhere. I know it brings a lot more self responsibility, but the trade offs seem worth. Plus I have no debts, house, kids so my personal risk is low at the moment to try it.
They did the same with me and forced me to work in a different department against my will. And there was a hint that they were going to fire me.
But this time, I made sure to get official reviews from my colleagues/co-workers.
Employees are called "resources", for a reason. Employers strongly believe, that all resources should be replaceable.
Yeah. That’s the truth
The nature of software dev roles in companies is you're always working on projects that will make you redundant. Be that dashboards, automation, and now AI - there's no real way around it because that is what the company is making you work on.
That's simply not true. Most companies which develop commercial software desire constant growth in sales, which is driven by on-going support of existing software and development of new features or applications. In a company's ideal future, the development staff would grow several fold to support growing sales of its products.
I think there's truth to that and truth to the other side. Businesses need growth and stable existing ecosystems
@@gaiustacitus4242There is a limit to how much a company can grow. The current focus is on AI.
@@gaiustacitus4242 That's software companies. But there are tons of companies out there for whom software is just a tool. An important and big enough tool that they afford themselves inhouse software departments, but those are generally seen as a cost factor, not a production facility.
As an employee, you cannot make yourself immune from lay-offs. It has nothing to do with your performance nor your dynamics with your team and other teams. It is a business decision done by the board and implemented top down. I'm a former company director, it has nothing to do with the employees, just plain business decision.
Accurate
true to a point. There are certain employees they will cut first tho
Nonsense, unless the need for your position is eliminated entirely.
0:22 - It's not insane, it's just ignorant. This comment screams to me "I have no idea how budgets work and I have never been a contractor in my life"
@@ForgottenKnight1 or even a normal employee in America..
It's a naive comment. The company doesn't need a reason to let anyone go. Usually (IMO) if your in the wrong place at the wrong time you're likely to be "downsized" out of the job. It's nothing personal, just business.
Accurate. And you have to be aware of what is in your control
Yep. It may be relevant in very few teams or small companies, but in a large company it just comes down and it may be a complete department downsized by a large percentage.
It also has to do with how much you are getting paid. I am an eng manager after 16 or so years as a developer. I have been laid off before because of the company needing to reduce the overhead going into a recession. They were not doing anything needing someone of my caliber and could spend less to hire jr devs for my salary. I did not blame them and they gave me a great recommendation. So "how good you are" can also work against you in terms of what businesses look for when they are stressed on funds.
It goes both ways though. They don't get to dictate whether or not I take a better position at their biggest competitors.
I have never been laid off but I have consistently seen the best workers laid off around me almost every single time:
- The senior engineer with more than 500 patents that probably made the company a billion dollars with these, laid off.
- The senior engineer that happens to be the smartest person in the building by far in my opinion laid off.
- The hardest working developer who pulls 70-80 hours a week, laid off.
- The smart guy who always contributes to novel solutions, laid off because he was making more money than others in the team!.
- The average developer that does his work, laid off.
- And so many more, I have only seen one person be fired for bad performance.
I used to be on the top of performance but completely lost my faith in leadership, in every place I have worked and will stick to just doing the bare minimum, often there is no incentive for performance in this industry and performing well to earn more puts a target on your head for the next layoff. A trend is the person earning the most in the team is often is the next in the chopping block.
For suuuuuuuure dude. Thats probably the worst part of our career. We can do everything right and one bad leader or one bad manager can derail all the preparation you’ve done.
Can u recommend what kind of developer most wanted does it base of cs or jst skills n exp which one mostly required front bk full stack I will be thankful
Which team at Amazon are you on 😄
@@bennettmiller3586 fact!
Every technical job environment is like that unless the company is in dire need. Other than that, learn to meter your effort.
Excellent advice. I just came across your channel via the RUclips algorithm. I'm 69, been in the IT arena for 44 years; still going strong but do want to slow down in a couple of years. My best to you going forward. I have liked and subscribed to your channel.
I’m very happy to have you here!! You give me hope that I have a long career still left in me! Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
U lost me at 69 😂
Nice
@@easyDoes1T85 that's a problem in this industry. Don't know when youth became a requirement to be an IT pro.
This video is good advice. I've been working 36 years in tech. My personal record is 45-1 .. 45 layoffs and got laid off once in 2001 when the company shutdown. Also consider the US has the most expensive tech workers in the world . When a company makes any decision it's almost always because of money. Don't take it personal but that's just the way it is. Try and increase your value to the company beyond your salary and you will have a better chance of survival. That star developer making $350K can easily get cut for someone in eastern Europe making much less because management determined they could replace you with a small development team in Hungary for the same price.
Thank you for sharing your perspective! And that’s an amazing record! 45-1!!!
I have been laid off three times too, over the last 35 years. First time I was in my 20s and got a new job in 24 hours. Second time I was 53 and it took 6 months to find a new jobs. Third time was 55 and it took about a month (I had more recent job search experience).
Thanks for sharing! I feel like job hunting is definitely a skill
Getting laid off is a big fear for me. I've had four positions. I voluntarily left the first one. Was laid off from the 2nd. (the company later went under) Got laid off my third job. (the parent company closed the subsidiary I was working for) Now I'm at my fourth position, and I worry that people will feel like I'm not a good engineer because of past lay offs...
Don’t stress. Take comfort in all the other comments of people that have gotten laid off. This is an unfortunate part of the industry.
You are not your job or job failure,
They just couldn't afford to pay you anymore, don't sweat it,
You'll get better offers with time.
It is only business. Do not take it personally. Keep your CV up to date and do not, I repeat, do not shotgun search new job. 10 to 20 well placed applications will have much better yield than 200 to 300 hip fires. And if your CV is really good you do not have to apply at all - the employers and headhunters will contact you first. Talking of experience (from all of mentioned situations).
No one feels that way a good engineer will ALWAYS get caught off in some management bullshit
If your current performance is good enough then they have no reason to care about your past
Companies come and go, as do projects. The majority of layoffs are driven by changes in business direction, problems with revenue generation, and other factors outside of the control of affected personnel. Managers have been through the same thing, so they understand.
Layoffs are very random. There are a lot of factors that go into choosing who to lay off, and job performance is only one of them.
very true!
I've been laid off 6 times:
2002 ... for coming in late too often
2004 ... company lost contract and everyone let go
2007 ... laid off in part of group cut from downsizing team
2016 ... laid off because new manager switched prog. language
2019 ... laid off for performance reasons
2022 ... company lost contract and everyone let go
Thanks for sharing! Especially the honesty. I think it’s important to look at this list and realize how many times it was outside your control
Curious about 2019
Were you a poor performer because they didn’t give you the chance to prove yourself or did they lay you off because they didn’t value what you’ve done?
@@morpheusFromZion No it was a remote position and we had a long lull in the work that needed to be done and serval times I was caught unavailable when the rare request from the client needed to be worked on (I was sleeping or out on an errand).
@@SeriousCat5000 how can you be fired for switching programming language?
@@jordixboycause if you don’t have the knowledge of that language, it’s syntax and practices, well what use are you? Unless you can adapt, as moronic as it is from the manager, you can’t just be sat their paid doing nothing
Being laid off is usually a wrong place wrong time issue. You can try to move to safer teams, but it's never a guarantee.
Nothing is for sure. But you can always do the most in your power to gently move the needle in the right direction
I’m in support of you i got laid off a few months ago. I truly believe i was vital to the project. I was just getting expensive and they replaced me with a junior
Oooof. Yeah you can do everything perfect, but it takes just one bad management decision to ruin it all. That sounds like a strategic mistake on their part.
Thankfully I didn't learn web development to get a job, I wanted to learn the skill and build things.... YOU KNOW the REAL reason to learn a skillset like this. Google and co is not going to stop me from learning and building.
People don't realize how powerful it is to have the building skills
Legit advice no bs no buy my course bait. Thanks a lot man, subbed.
This is high praise
I got laid off because the startup was having financial issues and the results of my work could keep the company without my role for quite a while with little to no support. I was a UX Engineer who laid the design groundwork along with a very well documented internal design system/UI Component library for the devs to consume.
I think If my job was subpar, perhaps I would still be there now, ironically.
Yeah the balance of job security is a fine art
Job market is tough right now. We went through this last year. It’s important to keep trying and keep interviewing positively. Use all your network. All the best!!
This is true! Thanks for watching!
My dad is like this. He thinks anyone who gets laid off is an under performer cause he's never been laid off. He's a boomer, so I don't even try to argue with him.
The boomer logic runs deeeeeep in corporate America
everyone becomes a boomer I mean old geezer sooner or later,
@@cody_codes_youtubeunfortunately its the same across the world
@johnjakson444 I mean the boomer mindset, not just their age. I've met some great, supportive elders. My dad is... a difficult individual to get along with in any context.
If he is a Boomer, or even Gen-X, he needs to reevaluate his thinking. Older workers have a massive target on their back, regardless of performance. Age discrimination laws are routinely ignored because true age discrimination is hard to prove. The next lay-off could include your dad and the stoner intern that never shows up for work and the company could claim that they treated everyone equally.
Thanks for the encouraging video. I also got laid off in October last year from my previous role, despite being one of the software engineers behind impactful projects that increased company revenue. This experience greatly demoralized me, but it also helped me understand the brutal nature of layoffs. In my case, the company, with its small engineering team, opted to keep engineers who had been with the team longer. I had been with the company for a year and a half and was the only mid-level software engineer on a team mostly comprised of senior engineers.
Despite the challenges, I am glad I learned from the experience. After a long period of seven months, I landed my new/current role. The job market is incredibly tough right now, but to anyone in a similar position, don't give up! and make proper use of your networks!
Thanks for sharing your story! I really appreciate it
Great advice. Sometimes, you just get laid off though, so don’t take it personally. Just do your best. My company was acquired by another company and the first thing they did was dissolve the majority of our team, including directors and management that had been there for several decades and all performed well.
Acquisitions come with downsizing and moving work overseas to fit budget constraints and make the final deal more appealing from a financial standpoint.
The real key is staying on top of your skills and developing new ones so you’re marketable in the future when the rug gets pulled from underneath you.
And also keeping your network alive. Always “consider “ other opportunities!
I think you got it completely right. The closer you are to the money as an engineer, the better off you are. Not just because of revenue, but also because of the critical nature of the work. It will also provide you the opportunity to work in an environment where there is urgency and sometimes scale (could be number of users served, transaction speed, number of queries ...). I was laid off for being "overpaid" in a division that could essentially be outsourced as a third party provider to the company
Exactly. You get it! Thanks for watching my friend
As someone that is at the ownership level, their comment is truly insane like you say. It really is about limited resources and making a lot of tough choices. I've never had to let anyone go but I've been really lucky.
But I'm also a programmer, been doing it for 30 years. I've been laid off twice and it hurt for a little bit. But I agree - The best way to look at work in general is to understand it's all temporary. You will eventually leave or you'll get let go. Companies change, markets change, things are always moving. Protect yourself with a nice cushion of cash and always be ready.
Thanks for your input! I really appreciate it. Thanks for your side of the story too
Experiencing a layoff for the second time in a little over two years into my career has been challenging. If you feel that you are not learning or growing in your current company, it's wise to start looking for opportunities at other companies that offer meaningful work and opportunities for professional development. It's crucial to be proactive in finding a good company that aligns with your career goals; otherwise, you might find yourself unexpectedly laid off without any notice.
@@ocoocososococosooooosoococoso this is very true. It’s also a industry where you have to always be looking and considering different work
Good workers get caught up in bad business situations all the time. Don’t get down on yourself. Many times something better is around the corner for you.
That’s exactly right. And the 3 times this has happened, my situation has always improved
Termination WITHOUT CAUSE needs to be talked about more, kudos to you
I agree. However sometimes the cause is very disappointing
The #1 lesson I have learned in corporate America, working as a software engineer, is...have a friendly immediate supervisor. If you have any friction with your boss, you are DONE. 💀
Yeah there is so much value in working well with the people that have your fate in their hands
Here’s the most accurate and helpful gem a recruiter shared with me. Two things will get you fired. Not being good enough at your job and… being too good at your job. The trick is to be mediocre. I’m in my mid-50’s and have had a career that span 4 industries. This is exactly what I have observed to be true. Merit has nothing to do with reward in the corporate world. It’s a game and not a meritocracy.
It’s definitely a game. I don’t believe and haven’t seen the “oh they are too good at their job” side
@@cody_codes_youtube You probably have but it was just couched as “that person isn’t a team player… they don’t share with their peers….they aren’t a good fit”. These are all euphemisms for “they know more than me and I’m threatened by them.” Obviously management never comes out with “that person is more qualified than me and I’m afraid they’ll outshine me and take my job.”
@@Mary-tj5qx oh no worries. I can definitely speak the corporate passive aggressive terminology. I know what you’re saying happens. Objectively I have not seen what you’re saying happen. I just wonder how often and what industries it actually happens.
As someone that has sat on the side of the table that had to lay people off, a lot of times, the beancounters are the ones making the decisions, and they'll literally just cut the most expensive people. No care about whether those people are critical for some reason, the sole metric is "how much are they costing the company". I've had a key member of my team get laid off because he made more... but he made more because he's been doing this for 20 years and had the most seniority within my ~200 person org.
A senior distinguished engineer with something like 30 filed patents with our company. Dude was likely (at some level) responsible for like $100M in revenue... but cut because his salary was far above everyone else in that org. Was the stupidest decision.. they tried replacing him with some jackass in India that had a similar resume... dude's skill didn't even come close, and we've directly lost money due to this dumb-shit decision - especially since dude picked up a job at a competitor.
There can be such a disconnect between the real value and perceived value
I'm surprised more people don't go postal at these heartless corporations. Especially when you know the company is doing well just want their stock price to go up.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Cody! Please keep 'em up. I hope things turn around and you get back on track ASAP if they haven't yet. Bests!
Thanks dude! I just moved so I’m working finally on some new content. Stay tuned!
I was laid off twice and nearly fired twice. Out of all situations it’s never been directly related to performance. There’s more nuance to employment than just doing the job.
There’s soft skills, the rapport with management, company margins, overpaying someone, and unfortunately the project you work on. You can’t choose which projects you work on once brought on board.
True. The power you have in the situation is marginal. However the longer you work there, the more mobility and agency you can use to try and make yourself more valuable
I've been laid off several times in this industry, this most recent time being the worst since the job market is so tough.
The best way to avoid being laid off is to be your own boss. That comes with other challenges, but at least you aren't dependent on one company and have more control.
Recently found your channel. Good luck to you moving forward from this!
Thank you! Yeah, that's what I'm currently working on
Agree with everything said. I would add more thing, however: Do not allow your self-worth to hinge on your job.
There's an infinity of reasons why people get laid off. Sometimes their fault, sometimes someone else's, sometimes no reason at all.
The best thing you can do when it happens, like @CodyCodes obviously did, is some deep introspection. He did it out loud in public on youtube, but it can just as well be private and something you keep to yourself. The hard part is not to get wound up and allow your emotions to run the show entirely-- that's MUCH easier to do if you have the distance that comes with not couching your self-worth in your job/employment.
I have nothing to add; this is perfect and something I also try to teach!
In my experience on most startups your relationship with your boss is far more relevant as an indicator of whether you will be laid off than any skill you might have. A terrible employee might be laid off regardless, but a mediocre employee will keep his job over an excellent one if his boss likes him.
Very true. And there is another way to spin that kind of relationship. You want your management to have faith and rapport with you that you can get the work done. And that they are able to communicate easily with you. So if that relationship is good, then it is a valid metric for keeping someone
@@cody_codes_youtube sure, that's the positive aspect of it. But also, sometimes you just click with your manager, or don't. Or you may have a toxic boss and be unwilling to put yourself through what others will accept. But of course if it's bad enough you should leave before you get laid off.
It's not true that you will not get laid off if you are competent. We are all replaceable. Keep up with the good work.
@@gojiraindahhood oh for sure. I didn’t say that, I’m just saying it’s the one thing in your control you can try to work on. It should improve your chances, but you could still get wiped out.
Yep, work hard, give away your best ideas so the man on the top gets richer and you get to keep grinding from 9 to 5….oh and they probably will need you to come in Sunday…mmmkay.
Here is my take… learn the business, leave, start competing business. Don’t give your ideas for base salary. That’s all the upper management is looking for… to suck you dry.
I like that. And I just watched office space again for the first time in a few years. That movie is perennial. Soooo good
@@cody_codes_youtube hehe yeah… it’s a classic. I re-watch it quite often.
i reduced labor from 56 workers to 22 by going from batch processing assembly to assembly line, and still got laid off. The only thing that matters is how much your direct superior likes you personally
It's definitely not the only thing that matters, but it's the one small thing that could sink you if you ignore it entirely. We are still weird social animals at the end of the day
Anyone that has been in the corporate work world for any length of time at all knows that nobody is safe from lay-offs. Nobody. The hardest working, most valuable person on the team may actually have a bigger target on their back as they may have a higher salary than a mediocre performer. And don't believe for a minute that popularity doesn't factor into who stays and who goes. The people that post those comments about competent people not being laid off just haven't been around long enough to be in the cross-hairs.
Exactly. We want these things to be calculable and objective, but it’s all run by imperfect people
What's sad and crazy about this is everyone is trying to find solutions on how to deal with this type of letting go instead of revolting and speaking up that we deserve to feel stable at a job. I appreciate you all for the kind of advice to "always be looking" "always keep your guard up", but aren't we tired of having to work around their rules? Why haven't we thought about ways to create our own contracts that these companies would need to abide to? Is it because none of you feel its realistic?
I mean, anything is possible. But that’s such a huge challenge and rolls up to labor unions. In America, that’s just how labor is set up currently. Also, the contract I signed was set up this way, and I knew that going into it. That’s some of the appeal of the work I do. The appeal is I get paid a bit more, come in and do the work for mostly a short time, and they have the flexibility to change direction. So I’m signing up for more instability for more cash.
You know I hate it when people say things like "I don't think any decent programmer will be laid off" or "If you were good you wouldn't have been laid off" or "If you're a good programmer you'll have no problem finding work" (which is generally true in a normal economy but even then people struggle) because its so ignorant and tone deaf. It's stupid. It's as if people think the only reason you can get laid off is for performance reasons.
I have a ton of experience and I've been laid off since August 2023. Trying to start my own business right now and so far I'm only getting a little bit of traction. Still applying to jobs with no luck so far. Hopefully something turns up soon. BTW love your channel!
Hey thanks man! I really appreciate that! Good luck to you. I'm working on myself as well
Rule #1: Make your boss happy.
I think that’s power law #1: make your boss look good
🥺good luck if your boss is a miserable , incompetent ahole
Nah if my boss is terrible
unless your boss is also laid off
Kiss that butt.
I have 15 years of experience in software engineering and many times I have seen top performers and guys who got 3 consecutive CEO excellence awards being laid off. It is a more of a financial decision since the top performers would also be top earners because of the raises they get for performance.
For sure. It’s a hard balance to strike. And that starts getting into the politics game, showing how your value is irreplaceable. But one other thing is, if you are a top performer, then a layoff shouldn’t be a death sentence. There’s no doubt a tip performer can perform at the same level for the next company
@@cody_codes_youtube yes you are right , top performers have no problem getting hired again. Many a times a layoff is a blessing for them since I saw many switch to better roles and pay which they previously did not pursue due to stability in their job and family commitments.
The older you get, the more it happens. Young (always micro-managers) can't deal with people more experienced than themselves. Try not to work with "managers" who are younger than you.
Super interesting. Has this happened to you?
The converse is even more true and common. Older workers who can’t stand young, driven grads. Young managers are rare.
I personally find the insufferable micromanagers have more to do with personality disorders rather than age/generation/ethnicity. They are controlling and have trouble trusting others. Age does not fix this problem because it’s a personality/psychological issue.
@@mecanuktutorials6476 I disagree. You're implying that younger workers are more driven than older workers. Younger workers live with their parents or in bachelor apartments and party 3 nights a week. Older workers have actual responsibilities (family, mortgage). Younger workers are simply naive, entitled and speak when they should listen. Regarding managers; Yes, some older mangers are micromanagers, but experience should teach a manager that professionals don't need to be controlled like livestock (or beginner developers). Experienced managers delegate and have respect for their team, while younger managers think they are "leaders" and dictate (micro-manage), and lash out at anyone with independent thought or actions. Also, young managers are not rare. Those who can't actually do anything become "managers".
There will come a point in your career where this advice is mathematically impossible unless you want to climb the ladder all the way to the top, which not everyone can or wants to do.
@@not_ever The point is experienced managers delegate and treat their team with respect, while inexperienced managers think they are Genghis Khan and dictate and micro-manage. Stay away from younger (know nothing) "managers".
I was laid off earlier this year. I was friendly with my manager and team and constantly received positive feedback, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't performance related. But not being able to find something else yet definitely made me question if I want to stay in tech, and my skillset in general. Every point you made was spot on. Specifically the work log piece because half the time I forget what I've worked on to add to the resume!
Thank you! I appreciate that. I’m working on a work log video that’s dedicated to just that topic
another tip, dont get paid too much. it makes you a top target during layoffs.
Or if you do, it also becomes important to do the political game and make sure you are providing that level of value to the company!
Cody.. like to know what you are doing today to find that next role. I too was laid off a few months ago and the market is so awful.. I am getting 0 responses from any job application. Every opportunity seems to have 100+ applicants within minutes of a posting. I feel like the software developer role is so oversaturated right now that it may be a year or more before jobs might be available. I don't know exactly what I am missing on.. keywords, etc to bypass the AI filters that are likely kicking me to the curb where I cant even get a phone call.. and no doubt recruiters no longer calling/emailing are because the market is flooded with layoffs from all sorts of tech company's. Frankly I really want to start my own company.. but finding a UI expert (I am a backend guy with APIs, etc) and possibly a business person to seek funding.. I have no clue how to do that either. Been doing a bit of googling.. and I know my idea has the potential to be good (maybe not big.. but good) because I've spoken to many developers the past year who said it would be amazing and very useful tool. Yet.. taking it from the idea and working slowly on a prototype.. and figuring out how to work on the UI (I know a little but not very good with it) and then somehow come up with a pitch, and get in front of people that may provide some seed round funding.. that is what my tech chops never taught me.
I got you! It is hard but I have a couple videos upcoming that will answer this question!
Companies were complaining that we need more and more coders. Import and export to India etc etc. Then they layoff 100's of thousands. Something is wrong with this strategy.
There is a lot of correcting happening in the industry, that's for sure
Anything that can be offshored and or automated will be. Over 20 years and its the same strategy always
Your points are really good points, and sometimes you do get laid off no matter what, especially if you are working at a vulnerable startup.
But let's be honest, the majority of workers are not key to the business, and that is usually why they get laid off. No reason to fib about it. Many people aren't obsessed with their craft and just want to make it home to their kids. There is really nothing wrong with that, but we don't need to pretend they are useful as the folks obsessed with their craft. We feed people too much cope. "Get really good" really would be the cure for most people most of the time. The points you laid out are a good roadmap for that
I completely agree with you. Obsessing on the craft above all else is not my path. But I think it’s valuable to lay out the paths and the options for those who may want to focus on that part of their life for a minute. You know what I mean?
Crazy times, man. At least you turned one of those vomit comments into good content for your channel, good for you.
I was under the impression that your had several freelance steady jobs, but losing your main source of income is always painful. Hope the market gets back to normal soon and you find something else quickly.
Yeah, I’m not going to zero, I have some part time work, so I can mostly support the family. I have some leads already that are good so I’m not worried!
Screw all that. The best way to not get laid off is to want to get laid off. I’ve never been laid off in my entire 30 year career. It’s because I’ve always had a plan B, C, D. I want to get laid off so i can get severance and spin up my other options. But it never happens. One time I did get put on layoff status, but the very next day 7 divisions in the company offered me pay increases to work for them. I said, screw that, took my severance package and executed plan B which was to consult for them for double the pay. All I can say is, always have leverage. When you have leverage people can sense it. When you’re afraid, people can sense that too.
You're delusional to think you never got laid off because of you. If you took a severance, it means you were laid off. 🤡
You’re not wrong. You’re just talking overly aggressive. There’s nuance to both ways, and I agree with you. But that’s not the only way to operate in your career
Totally agree with the things you can control. Being part of the bone and not the fat! I only recently joined IT, first as SAP 2nd line support and then as backend engineer. Before that I changed my roles every 2 years, and worked in multiple different aspects of the business, to the point now after 12 years that it makes me a good SME. The things you can control not only save you from layoffs but it's the trust/respect you capitalize as you move through your career. I would have never been accepted for an internal developer role if it wasn't for years of improving things in the company with excel and VBA hahaha always provide value for free up front, it will be rewarded
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I’m glad to hear you got a good grip on the idea of job security!
I'm a director at a small software company... everything you say here is excellent advice.
Wow dude. Thats an amazing vote of confidence. Thank you!
Everyone eventually gets laid off, nobody stays, ever
Truth
My entire department was laid off before I was. I was loved by every layer of management through VP. They wanted to put me on special projects and everything. But at some point, I couldn't take it. I wasn't just running my department. I felt like I was running my entire program at this point. I was doing not only what was my manager's job, but my VP's job. On top of my own. And I couldn't handle it anymore. So I quit. The Thursday of the week I quit there was another round of layoffs. By two months later, everyone in my entire management chain from VP down was gone. If I didn't quit when I did, I would have just been laid off a few months later
people are always quick to jump to conclusions, never understanding full circumstances. Let me enlighten you folks, because most of you just don't get it. Some reasons why you can get laid off even if you're a good programmer :
1. office politics, manager likes his little social club and chooses to fire you instead of his buddies.
2. manager personally dislikes you for some reason for example he's not as smart as you, feels like you're making him look bad during discussions etc etc.
3. project fails because client makes dumb requirements and management disagrees when you object. In the end you're the scapegoat.
That's just a few reasons from real life that I've witnessed when actually competent developers were let go and instead people who shouldn't even be there were kept.
Thank you so much for sharing. And yes I agree those are real reasons for things to fall apart. Thanks again!
You are correct. We are responsible for what we can take action on. Other people’s actions and decisions are not in your control. The only time it is you is if the layoff is because of performance reasons. This should be a timely process with your manager.
Many layoffs take place because of business/economical reasons. And, for many large companies you are just one small part in a conveyor belt to produce a product.
If it happens never take it personally, exit gracefully, learn from the experience, and turn the page into the future. You might be better off in the long run.
Thank you for watching!
Here's some advice from someone that started outside of tech that moved into it in the last 5 years. This is a problem everywhere, but I've noticed it's really common in anything related to highly specialized STEM fields. The sooner that you change your mentality about your "job" from being tasks-oriented to being a holistic participant at the company, the better you'll be when layoffs come around. Your "job" is more than just the tasks you do in the day-to-day execution of your primary responsibilities where you work. It is more than producing code, designing algorithms, machining parts, turning wrenches, collecting data, etc. You are not a literal machine with a single functionality. That's why applications and interviews check for things like ability to work with others, foresight, drive and passion, desire to continue learning and growing, ability to think globally, etc. They might try to work you like a machine on the day-to-day, but they expect you to be a complete person and participate as a complete person.
but as we know, reality rarely lives up to expectations
I don't agree that my advice was the same as his. With that thought process, you could only say, "Just Do Better", and think that would cover it. I provided real applicable goals and strategies for becoming someone who actually be key in the business. Sure you could just roll that up and say it's the same as "attitude and skill upgrades", but that would be more than worthless advice.
And you're completely right about your assessment. It's just not as apparent as every other career advice you get in software. Too many people focus on tools, leetcode, and technology, where more value could be gained by taking a step back and knowing the full picture and gaining those other soft skills
@@cody_codes_youtube There is a meaningful difference between specific approaches to general advice and just the general advice itself, so I admit I was being reductive. I apologize for that. I edited my original comment.
I think it's not just software. I'm adjacent to software now, and people are still very tasks-oriented where I'm at and the advice they get on how to stay relevant is still things like, "get your PE/get X certification" or "learn Y skill" or "work on Z project". There's a lot of advice about how to get yourself into your next job and not even how to keep the current one. Very little advice on how to grow within a certain job, let alone the field overall.
That to me is a signal that there was a bubble and now it's popping.
@@cajonesalt0191 oh yeah. I completely agree. And I feel like that mentality has been pervasive for decades too. You could even say “get a college degree, and a good company will set you up for 40 years”. I think we should all be self aware and knowledgeable about what we are doing, how we are getting paid, and there is an ongoing purge of “look at my high paying FAANG lifestyle “ vs. “look at the cool things I built and did to move forward my career and the business that pays my salary”. I’m not a company man, but I am one that will always try to find the value in what I’m doing
Was fired some years ago.
They fired me, but they had nobody to do the software programming.
So I worked as a consultant 2 years to end the project.
The customer wanted me to do the program.
I’ve heard of that happening for sure
Sorry about your layoff, mate, but from what it sounds like, this is rampant in the IT industry, yeah? That said, is it really all that advantageous to be loyal to IT employers? Or is it better to use that time to hone one's skills, and learn other skills to use in future? I've been studying InfoSec/Cybersecurity since 2010, and learned a lot. The best thing I've learned is this: I never want to be employed in the IT field. Don't get me wrong, I'm damn good at IT. Hell, I've taught myself Linux and can work on the terminal just as easy as in the CMD prompt, but I still never want to be an IT employee. That said, I've decided to be an Independent Writer [have 40 years writing experience] with a focus on IT. Will I lay myself off one day. Perhaps, but only when I have enough in savings to last me until I breathe my last breath. All the best, cheers.
Thanks brother. And yeah, I’ve started making moves to be fulling independent of companies. Not quite there yet, but it’s definitely a stressful way of life!
I recently got laid off. I was a contract music teacher working at City University of New York, CUNY for 5 years. I had the right attitude, great student feedback, and student retention. However, due to budget cuts, I lost the gig. In 2022, I landed a contract as web developer at a FANG company, and after the program ended, we were promised a renewal or help to get another job. But we got ghosted. Around that time was when they had the big tech layoff of late 2022-2023. Been working a minimum wage job for the last 8 months and I’ve been getting rejection after rejection for software development and teaching. However, i got a few offers for teaching, but it was in another state. And I did a couple of technical interviews with some heavy hitters, but didn’t make it past all three rounds. It’s tough out here. Your videos are helping me to cope. Thank you for sharing.
In gotchu man! You’ll like my next video. I’m walking through strategy and thought process of job hunting.
@@cody_codes_youtube I’m looking forward!
Hi RonBruce, so you have two types of careers? One is teaching and another one is developer?
@@lisali6205 Yes. I was a part-time music teacher while doing full time as a developer.
@@RonBruce try being good at one of them.
The real reason is companies realised they could replace you with foreign migrants from India for half the salary.
@@themonk_fish that didn’t happen. I’m still in touch with the company. Thanks for commenting your paranoia
I'm 35, in hardware engineering space and over the last few years, experienced 3-4 rounds of layoff that thank god I dodged. I was an avg designer, but it really was luck rather than any merit that kept me employed. Who they layoff, mainly due to financial:
1. Location Based: Branches outside main branching closing, maybe easier to manage and report taxes
2. Function Based: Group no longer a priority for company, so just close entire group.
Very rarely is it because of performance because top level manager don't want to look at performance, too much work. And PIP is always an option before layoff because performance based layoff often require replacement and that really sucks up time/resources.
Some of our major project experienced significant delays because during production time, top level had the smart idea to reduce team by 50% for cost, and decided easiest way is to lay off non-main branch engineers. Some 20+ year tech leads were gone and the project was transferred to a recent college grad who waived all errors and then left for another company. Later we found out none of the errors were fixed, just waived to get the job done and all that had to be re-done so they rehired tech-leads they just laid off. -.- The fucking clown show never ends.
You’ve got some good points! Thanks for sharing.
It’s bananas. And I think many companies learn the hard way
I bet $20 that guy was laid off that day
Hahaha. No bet.
I’m an aerospace Tooling Engineer and I’ve been laid off once, twice if you count a contract position not being renewed, in 17 years. All the other job changes were my idea, and I’ve had a lot of job changes. Being laid off after logging 100 hour weeks and nearly getting divorced from the neglect at home really changed things. I don’t ever plan to work that hard again because I’ve been burned.
For sure. If people want and can, go for it, but I do not promote the idea you have to work that long and hard
Absolute truth on all points. I have been in meetings to decide who will get laid off or not and managers do try to save the ones that do all of these regardless if its already financially bad for the company to retain them.
It’s a professional and social game, after all.
Layoffs I've been involved with are more about deleting whole sections of the business and teams. Nothing to do with performance. More to do with retiring legacy software and bringing team and business units in line with company strategy.
So for me it's about being on the right team. Not working with legacy software or bleeding edge speculative projects, but rather the BAU bread and butter projects that bring in the money.
Truth. Those are two different accounting buckets too. Maintenance vs new offerings. I think new software can be tax advantaged more than maintaining the existing beast
A couple of useful handles for Lesson 3 are profit-center vs cost-center. You want to work in the profit-center.
Very true! Thank you for the help
Speaking as a former hiring manager, lesson 3 is critical. That's how we make these decisions. We want to cut the people who contribute less to the bottom line than their compensation, and if you don't know where the bottom line comes from, you're completely in the dark about where you are in that conversation.
Thank you for the validation! I really appreciate it!
One more thing that you haven’t covered is that salary is basically a very big factor in cutting people. If someone is higher paid than their peers and not a management favorite, they’ll get a bad performance review that is totally fabricated as pretext for getting rid of them in the next round. This is so common as to be the norm.
It can be. Sure. But that’s not the norm in the dozen of people I’ve worked with
In a recent project they decided to lay off the most experienced to reduce costs. When the two most experienced developer contracts were to renew, they decided not to, wanting to hire permanent staff. In the past they had hired contractors as they couldn’t get any permanent to join….
It’s so painful to watch when they can’t do staffing due to obvious mistakes…
You're still doing well, as you've been laid off by one company. I have been laid off by the whole world, not being able to land a new gig on upwork since 2 months despite having a perfect 5 stars 100% score.
Oh interesting! Have you had to change your rates?
@@cody_codes_youtube Yes, I lowered them from very low (34) to ludicrously low (25). Interestingly one day after my complaint here - 7 weeks after I finished my last job - I got approached by 3 potential clients, albeit no contract yet.
My boss said I reached my potential and I just stopped caring. Now everything is crashing down.
Your boss is a jerk
There is nothing an employee can do to avoid being caught up in layoffs, as most factors which drive layoffs are outside of the control of employee or employer.
Sometimes, yes.
Thanks for Sharing ❤ Take love brother..
Thanks for taking the time man. Have a good one!
From a software dev pov, I have a huge problem w/ your thought process, no company should need you. Imo any company that "deeply" needs someone should get rid of that person sooner rather than later. Because that person believes they should hold onto all their knowledge as opposed to sharing it. I work with the mindset I should be expendable, and I shouldn't drag my team or my company down with me no matter how little the company cares about me. Employee and Employer is a transactional fee, they're not families.
That’s overloading the relationship and also thinking of people working with only malice. You don’t have to be a family, but you can work harmoniously together. There are obviously bad situations, companies and teams, and it sounds like that’s what you’ve experienced. And I’m sorry that’s why you think that way
First off, thank you so much for making this video, Cody. 😊👍👍.
It's such an important topic, especially now with AI becoming more and more relevant.
I was the only one who noticed that our databases across every system were in trouble and about to crash. Did I get any respect for that? Nope. Instead, the team leader blamed me for the whole thing.
I even helped the company bring in an extra $5 million and sometimes saved them from having to pay that much in fines. And each time, all I got was a kick in the ass and questions like, 'Would you be okay with a pay cut?'
But when it came to thanking me for my help? Nothing. Not even a simple 'thank you,' which is fine-I don’t need that. But where's the respect?
I'm done with it.
P.S. When I led a small team for a year or two, I’d always say, 'I have an awesome team. That’s why we succeeded.' And if something went wrong, I’d take the blame and say, 'That’s on me.' That’s how it should be, as long as it makes sense.
Here’s what I did for them:
- Automated their tests in ways they didn’t even think were possible.
- Saved them from lawsuits related to the database issue.
- Made their systems secure.
- Developed tons of tools they needed to solve problems that didn’t have solutions.
- Came up with ideas that saved them $80k per device. And what did I get? Someone else claimed credit for the patents and said they invented it.
etc.
I would’ve always appreciated it if someone had more knowledge and experience than me. But there wasn’t anyone.
Nowadays, it feels like the younger ones aren’t interested in diving deep. They want quick, surface-level knowledge in a bunch of areas. It's wide but not deep.
I’m not bitter about life, but I’m done with this company. After doing all that work and getting treated like this? No way. Sometimes I feel like they’re saying, 'Hey, asshole. Do this. Hurry up.' They don't say it, but the tone and attitude suggest it.
So yeah, I’m job hunting. :-) 😂
I don’t wish this on anyone. Don’t let them fool you.
If you make a mistake, okay, they’re right. But not if you’re doing all the things I mentioned above.
Here’s the positive takeaway I want to share:
- Reflect on yourself. You might not be bad at what you do-in fact, you might be so good that people feel threatened, and that’s why they treat you like crap.
At my previous company, we had an amazing team leader-one of the best I’ve ever had. But COVID hit, and things went downhill because of management’s 'great ideas.' LOL.
If you’re really passionate about this field and love learning because it fascinates you, chances are you’re great at it. And if they don’t see you as a threat, they’ll keep you small, because otherwise, they might have to pay you more.
Just something to think about, to give you a positive outlook.
Have a great day, and good luck finding something where your hard work gets rewarded.
And again, thanks for sharing this video. 👍👍
You’re amazing. Thank you for sharing. And I think your situation is way more common than we think. It’s a shame, and I wish you the best!!
I just laid off one of my engineers. He was the highest paid, but lowest performing and least technically competent in the team. Turns out he was wrongly hired into a senior role by a recruitment blunder that my predecessor was too timid to fix.
@@dw4525 dang! That’s still probably a hard thing to do
Was an engineering manager/ engineer for 35 years. Retired last year and so glad I'm done with corporate nonsense.
I’m jealous my dude! Congrats on your career!
What happens when performance reviews are minimizing the actual version control?
I… actually don’t know what you’re saying.
Could you make a video about the project notebook??
Project notebook?? Sure! But what did I say about it? I don’t remember.
@@cody_codes_youtube in Lesson 4, at about 4:30, you said always having a work log or notebook can help you show the work you have done
@@gangstaberry2496 OHHH yeah. That’s on my list to do a dedicated video on. Thanks for the reminder!
@@cody_codes_youtube I'll keep an eye out!! Thanks
Over almost 50 years of engineering I've been laid off maybe a dozen times, not once was it about me. A couple of companies went bankrupt, projects or whole divisions were dropped, government contracts canceled, and the next to last time management of a system I'd built over about ten years was moved to India, and I didn't want to move there 😊
You can only worry about what you can control! Thanks for sharing. I’ve seen a lot of those too
All correct reasons. Having said that, it is imperative for people to learn that it is only a job. Do not ever sacrifice your health, wellbeing, family etc. and devote to a job assuming you will be taken care by a corporation.
Absolutely correct. I think it’s okay to hustle, if you are able and excited to, but by and large, we are just getting paychecks for smashing keyboards all day. I don’t take this as my identity.
The only job you will never be fired from is the one you quit. Your partners can even fire you from your own company. Not understanding that only indicates a person's lack of experience. The best way to avoid being fired is to be constantly looking for a new job, I'm not saying changing, but measuring your value in the market and of course, if there is a better opportunity, especially if you already have more than 2 years in the same position and without opportunities to grow MOVE TO ANOTHER JOB!
Always be looking
I worked as Full stack Software developer (my main work), AI Research n Development (additional work for the same company), Video Producer, Director and 3D Artist (additional work for the same company) all in the same job. And i got laid off. And i had 100 hours unpaid overtime in the last 6 months. And i was task switching daily (3-4 tasks a day between projects).
Dude, that's awful. I can't stand not getting paid for overtime
Layoffs are by definition not related to skills. They are cost cutting measures. A company will keep a lower skilled lower paid worker who charges work to a high profit client over a higher skilled highly paid worker. It's pure bean counting.
It can be. But the subjective assessments do come into play too. If there is an employee that is pretty good, but makes everyone’s lives miserable, they are probably gone
Bruh. I got laid off in the height of my career. I was leading the technical direction of a feature that touched many different domains (they green lit my technical doc), I fixed 300k rows in prod that wasn't my fault by writing a migration script in ruby (I didn't even know ruby so I had to learn on the fly), and I was loaned out to another team for a week because they personally requested me since I was trusted to do the work. And I did do the work in a week. The very next Monday I was laid off lmao.
Everyone was shocked because it's not about performance. It's about who you know. I was told before they laid me off, staff/principle engineers and managers tried to vouch for me and convince the vp to keep me. My manager thought I was safe that very day.
It doesn't matter anyway. After my old employer found out I was available, they snatched me up. I won't have any politic issues anymore because I actually know the upper management in my old job. I'm good.
That’s awesome! That’s great to hear. And you’re completely right. Sometimes upper levels have knowledge of the trenches and often they don’t. Sometimes your manager can save you. Sometimes not. All you can focus on is what you can control
I am sorry to hear this happened to you. I don't work in I.T. but I've worked in professional environments such as Legal, banking and that comment made to you was unjustified. He doesn't know the circumstances which actually took place.
For sure. Also… he could just be trolling. People are weird on the internet!
I just got laid off. At my job, we had mandated pair programming (all day every day). They called a group of us into a video call and terminated us effectively immediately. It was really nice to see that the people I paired with, who just sat without saying a word while I did all of the work during our pairing sessions, were not part of the group that was laid off. Yeah, I guess I wasn't delivering.
Pair programming and the business have always had a rough relationship. If you don’t have buy in from the higher ups, you could be a target just from that practice. I pair programmed all day every day for about 4 years. But that was baked into the companies DNA
40 years in mechanical engineering and I can say, it's no different there. Where you're gonna be in the following week is always up to the suits upstairs. I'm not sure though if you can influence that in anyway. Suits usually haven't a clue what's going on at the work front, they just see what you're costing the company. They're bean counters who often don't understand the technology or value of your work for the company. Just look what is happening at BOEING. They laid off older staff because they cost the company more and lost the years of experience that these people represent.
Yeah. It’s not perfect but I try and encourage people to do what they can and what’s in their power. Most of my career, the higher ups have been software engineers before, but then again it’s been a long time since I’ve worked at a company the size of Boeing as an example.
Good video. I will say that it’s not always good to hang on tho. Been laid off twice and tendered my resignation twice over the past 34 years. One resign was the business moving out of state. They wanted me at the new company but I didn’t want to leave. Other time was due to new management running the organization into the ground. Half the core management and front line followed me out the door and the org was no more within six months.
Yes. This is absolutely true as well. Thank you for sharing!