Literally a minute before reading your comment, I tried to predict when DR would end. And I went with 2032, weird coincidence that you picked that for your comment lol
@@TheLazySans95 Seeing as how Chapter 2 took 3 years to come out, and Chapters 3-4 took 4 years, I don't think another 4 years for 3 chapters would be enough. It depends though, we can't predict the future.
TODAY??? TODAY OF ALL TIMES? NOT LIIKE... MONTHS OR YEARS AGO WHEN WE DAMN KNEW THIS? SPECIFICIALLY TODAY?... . anyways hi shay how ya been how's homestuck been or something idk... it's late I shoud go to bed-
A pretty big motif in this track is from Doctor by George Buzinkai, so I honestly doubt he'd use it in deltarune considering some of it isn't really his. This has also been in homestuck pretty prominently so I really don't know if he'd use it for anything else.
@@user-tk2ne4uk8c I mean, he used megaloviania despite it being in homestuck pretty prominently too. Although that one was first written for a previous project, but still. He doesn't seem completely opposed to reusing old tracks first seen in other work.
@@Volsraphelbottom? no, there's no bottom, now you should follow the etymologies of the words "PENUMBRA" and "PHANTASM" all the way down to the beginnings of the latin language, research how these words were adapted by the English language and what caused such changes in its lexicon, and only then after you've spent a couple of years on that you can study the proto-indo-european language just to find some clues on what was the intended possible hypothetical context of these words and why Toby used exactly them and how all of the aforementioned stuff boils down to a doodle of a cat that he made back in 4th grade while being bored in class, all while precisely studying every single word of his tweets and interpreting them like a sacred manuscript and a bunch of other stuff like comparing the release of Earthbound to the year of extinction of the Dodo bird or studying microbiology where you can find some foreshadowing for the 72nd chapter of DELTARUNE, since regarding the DT brainrot, **THERE'S NO BOTTOM, ONLY SUFFERING :3** good luck ! or just wait patiently for the game to release :3
@@Volsraphel You've basically hit the bottom for now, I'd say. You could make up crackpot theories on what the ending of Deltarune actually is all day and try to 'prove' things from a single piece of shaky subjective evidence, but there's 5 more chapters until then (although I personally theorize there's going to be a Chapter 8 because each chapter has an associated soul/soul color and _eight_ humans fell down in Undertale, not seven) and besides vague hints from Toby himself and leitmotifs in his older music, you're not going to get many more answers than that. Best we can say is that Gaster's definitely at least part of the reason why DR's happening, although whether or not he's the scheming mastermind or the guy trying to pull off a side plot while another villain's trying to cause the Angel's Heaven to happen is left unknown still.
@@invalid_user_handlemy theory is that actually Spamton will remain the most popular superboss and the rest will be [big], but not as [big] as Spamton
@@okluminous566or all three, like an trinity, a shattered vessel, broken across time and space, a Angel who pulls the strings, and a puppet who follows the story, hand in hand... (PS: the player is the puppet.)
Hopes and Dreams is my favorite video game track ever, and the UNDERTALE True End is my favorite game ending ever. I think only Toby can top those two things with the end of DELTARUNE and maybe a finished version of this track. Whatever he's planning to show us, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
@@ediblepencil494 funnily enough, the genocide run is my favorite ending of any video game because it's where you've always truly been led. Flowey, toriel, determination, gaster the pacifist, neutral, everything has come to climax into this bleak darkness and bleak ending, telling you that there's nothing here any more. Fucking peak
You almost have to wonder what actually happened in that dream Toby had all the way back in 2011. Why was it so important for him to dedicate all this time to recreating it? Many of his older, pre-DR (and even pre-UT) songs seem to have connections to them both... it's as if everything's building up to this one story. I can only hope it's going to be a masterpiece when it's all said and done. Toby's known for having made many of his songs, often melody only, in piano form before finalizing them; and considering this song's only _ever_ been in piano... we don't know what it's truly supposed to sound like, even now.
Not only one of the main plot tracks, but the progenitor of some of the most iconic entries in the soundtrack. It's a song that's only ever been referenced, never released.
On one hand, I feel like that’s pretty much perfect for this track. On the other, I wish we could listen to the last draft of the track Toby made. I know the mixing will probably be kinda horrendous, but I wanna hear it just for the sake of being able to say I did.
Oh, this is where the counter-motif for Doctor used in some of the many arrangements (Savior of the Waking World, for one) is from originally. It's really hard to track leitmotifs if certain tracks remain unreleased.
Ok something really insane I wanted to point out, that I'm kinda surprised I haven't yet considering how shocked I was when I found out. If you listen to Hopes and Dreams from Undertale's OST, and go to 1:19 in the song, and listen closely to the piano chords... That's Penumbra Phantasm. Like, the main melody. Now this already has some crazy implications, especially given the theories that Penumbra Phantasm may be a big part of Deltarune. But you wanna know what's even crazier? Go to 3:13 on this video, and listen closely to the tenor piano, between the melody chords and the rapidly moving bass. That's Once Upon a Time, or in this case Hopes and Dreams. It's subtle sure, but it's there. Years before Toby even started on Undertale, the melody of Undertale's main leitmotif was in his head, and he mixed it into the song. And then, he called back to it when he released Undertale, with Hopes and Dreams. And now? Well, that remains to be seen, but considering we've already heard bits of Once Upon a Time in Deltarune, I find it likely that the connection between these songs will be made clear with Deltarune's full release, and Penumbra Phantasm, from the edge of shadow, will finally get its time in the light.
hmm, personally i don't think that 3:13 part is supposed to be once upon a time. the notes don't quite line up. if anything, it sounds more similar to 1:03 of Lifdoff, another homestuck song also worth noting: this version of penumbra comes from 2017, and it's the only version to have that tenor piano melody
@@pkchiptune Idk about you but that tenor piano is like exactly the beginning of Hopes and Dreams, which is an altered version of Once Upon a Time. And if anything that part only being in this 2017 version (which I feel like I should note that this is the only official full version of Penumbra Phantasm) only seems to solidify that it's Once Upon a Time, if it came out after Undertale.
@@TheAdvertisement i mean? the surface similarity is definitely there, but i don't think it's the same motif. the notes are a bit off to be clear, we're talking about 0:45 of hopes & dreams, and 0:58 of Once upon a time, right? that's the part that sounds similar to me. also, there's another full-ish version of penumbra, awakeningcrap2.mid. and that version doesn't have the part from 3:13 of this one
@@pkchiptune No we're talking about the start of both songs wth are you talking about. Also I listened to Lifdoff and couldn't hear anything. Full-ish but still incomplete.
@@TheAdvertisement ah okay. well if it's not that, i don't understand what the similarity is. i guess i'll try listening to it a bit more? i wish youtube would let me post an audio comparison of what i'm hearing, but links usually get filtered in comments...
@@elilettuce The main melody of Penumbra Phantasm is reused in THE HOLY, the song that plays before you seal a fountain. When talking about Penumbra Phantasm in 2011 Toby would say cryptic things about light and dark and dreams, which now seems like an obvious connection to Deltarune. The song was also being worked on around the time Toby came up with Deltarune. Combined with the fact that Phantasm plays in the background of Hopes and Dreams and Hopes and Dreams plays near the end of Phantasm, people think Penumbra Phantasm may become a full song at the end of Deltarune, maybe even a finale theme.
@@XplosivDSToby isn't that kind of storyteller. He's subversive, but not to the point of sacrificing a good story beat. If he isn't gonna use Penumbra Phantasm, he's gonna make something just as appropriate.
I feel like toby’s composing has changed a lot since homestuck so if this song actually ends up in deltarune I really wonder how exactly it’ll sound like
The Fun Gang's worst enemies at the beginning: divorced spade and robot The Fun Gang's worst enemies at the end: A gray SOULless look-alike of Kris who seeks freedom by gaining the Player's SOUL, Noelle's missing sister who is responsible for causing the apocalypse, and the incarnation of the concept of fate. wait wrong penumbra phantasm
@@GSavel Better then being goofy good guy, he was literally always depicated as scary and a in-universe creepypasta, him not being a villain is a waste
@@whocaresaboutthename6850 Bruh. He literally built the CORE. Y'know, THE THING THAT POWERS THE ENTIRE UNDERGROUND. If that doesn't sound like what an at least somewhat good person (e.g. not a villain) would do, I don't know what does.
I've been sort of waiting for this song to come out since the mid-2010s. There was a little speculation back in 2016 when Homestuck Vol. 10 came out that it woudl be released on it but it never happened. I forget exactly when Toby was said to be working on it. After a while you just cope with the fact that Homestuck ended, he moved, on, and the song just got scrapped. But man, if this really ends up in Deltarune, it would be amazing. The culmination of about a decade of buildup.
Calling it now, this is gonna be the final boss theme of DR, when we have to take on the horned Titan defending the Grand Fountain in order to undo the Roaring.
I mean.... Just listen right at 0:24 .... That is my castle town's motif/ralsei's lullaby. This is definitely something here, and I think we will get a finished version down the line.
Two things to note: -This theme's general flow, tempo, and structure are very similar to Necrofantasia, which makes sense since that's a track from the *Phantasm* stage of Perfect Cherry Blossom. -The left hand at 3:13 sounds very familiar... Once Upon a Time, perhaps?
Theory: The roaring from Deltarune will take place during a lunar eclipse, and this leitmotif will be the song playing during the roaring. A penumbra is the part where the light of the sun meets the shadow of the earth during a lunar eclipse, or in other words, "At shadow's edge, shatter the twilight reverie."
@@elilettuceToby Fox's official words for the song are: AT "SHADOW'S EDGE", SHATTER THE TWILIGHT REVERIE. Toby Fox's first tweet was in 2011, around the same time he had the dream that inspired DELTARUNE's ending. The tweet said: "The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet" "Penumbra" basically means the edge of a shadow, while "Phantasm" is a fancy word for dreams and fantasy. The dark worlds are fantasy worlds very similar to dreams, and the legend of DELTA RUNE mentions "WORLDS' edge" So it's very likely Penumbra Phantasm was a DELTARUNE song all along, not a Homestuck song, thus it's also likely the full version will play at the ending of the game.
@@Endorsed1320 woah... so this is the very origin of the motif, even if it got used for homestuck a few more times if im not mistaken. im eager to hear the final version for deltarune. thanks!!
@@elilettuce the origin is Doctor, but toby has since basically all but adopted it and is keeping the original composer's memory alive by continuing to reuse it
This should’ve been in Cascade when Jade ascended to Dog Tier. It was the basis for the melodies of both John’s ascension theme and Jade’s entrance theme.
What I meant by the original comment is, this should’ve been in Cascade *instead* of Savior of the Dreaming Dead. Because this song contains the *original* god tier leitmotif (Savior of the Waking World), it would be cool if this song was Jade’s god tier theme, as it also contains the piano melody from Umbral Ultimatum.
Another day, another Old toby fox tumblr song that is predicted to be used in Deltarune. as someone who has never touched Homestuck... This ones really cool though! Has elements of "Fountain" in it
* No turning back. * The veins of you and Kris course with determination. * Memories flash before your eyes. * It's the end. * The land quakes with justice. * The sea wades with aspiration. * The stars shine with patience. * The air crackles with freedom. •CHECK• * THE ANGEL - AT 77777 DF 77777 * A being born of darkness, dedicated to resetting the world back to its beginning. * Impossible to defeat.
"The land" = Dunes justice = Clover's SOUL trait (duh) "The sea" = Waterfall? aspiration = Frisk's SOUL trait??? "The stars" = The Dark World patience = Kris's SOUL trait?
I'm legit impressed this has been up for over a year and a half and still doesn't have a single dislike. I'm also kinda shocked it doesn't have more than a couple hundred likes, but... *shrugs*
i knew savior of the waking world sounded familiar. people kept saying its gonna appear in deltarune even thought most of the motifs in here were in undertale AND homestuck ( i love this song though)
I really hope I'm not the first to make the connection here that both Homestuck and Undertale have OSTs built around a song that does not exist (Many songs in Homestuck use this song's motif, and many songs in Undertale use the Gaster's Theme motif)
i believe you are gaslighting yourself with the gaster's theme connections in undertale - happens all the time, and it's reasonable, since gaster's theme is a very simple 4-note arpeggio, so hearing it everywhere is... fair enough frankly, gaster's theme appears far more in deltarune
@@thecoolexclamationpoint no I'm not - I am fairly sure Gaster's Theme is not used as a lietmotif in Undertale in the same way it is in Deltarune - it's just easy to hear it when it isn't there becaude of how simple of a lietmotif it is.
So everyone is saying this this should be in Deltarune, but if you listen to the part from 2:51 to 2:56 it sounds kind of like a sped up version of She's Playing Piano from Undertale, which in turn is a piano version of the latter part of Alphys's theme.
Late, but I wouldn't be surprised if especially the beta version of Alphys was inspired by Doctor. It's certainly not the first Undertale track to find its origins in Doctor, either, given that Another Medium was derived from a remix of the track, which Toby dubbed "Patient." I also do agree that THE HOLY bears some resemblance to Penumbra Phantasm, although I'm not sure if that's just me trying to trick myself into believing it.
Not a primary source, but I've been informed that Toby apparently doesn't want this widely publicized. So, everyone reading this: avoid sharing it to large groups I suppose?
Calling it now, the finished Penumbra Phantasm will be Ralsei's battle theme in a future Deltarune chapter. I mean, Jade and Ralsei have a lot of similarities anyways.
The one thing that makes me skeptical of that is that this might be owned by Homestuck in some way. Toby re-uses a lot, and he did use straight up Megalovania in Undertale, but that song was never made FOR Homestuck, it was something he made on his own before a new version of it was made for Homestuck. Would be interesting if this does end up used in Detarune in some way though.
@@sarrakitty I don't think any of the music is actually "owned" by "Homestuck" in a way that can be legally enforced. As far as I know, the rights to all the music produced for Homestuck were retained by the musician as per their contracts. Even if it wasn't, I don't even know if What Pumpkin (Or Homestuck Inc or whatever the hell it is) exists as a cohesive entity that can pursue legal action anymore.
@@DokterKaj Megalovania originated in a romhack of Earthbound that Toby made as the final boss theme. He later repurposed it for use in Homestuck when he was making music for them, and then again as the boss theme for Sans when he made his first game, Undertale.
not to be that person but i wouldn’t be surprised if this ended up in deltarune. almost definitely will not but that would certainly be a fitting way to end this song’s legacy
wow im surprised someone was here 5 days ago, as of time of writing, though i guess here i am today. This comment really is useless, huh. Also i doubt it, toby fox will only finish this song when he's on his death bed.
Given how long Deltarune has been in development, how Penumbra has still never been released aside from a super obscure 15 second clip, how Another Medium started as a Homestuck track, and Toby’s long history of reusing past tracks in his current work (Fallen Down and Megalovania spring to mind), I wouldn’t be THAT shocked. I’d still be surprised, but it’s something that is within the realm of believability.
I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out, but you can faintly hear the opening of hopes and dreams which is just the Undertale motif modified at 3:12
It's not finished, I guess? And really, at this point I don't think even toby could cap something that's been a staple in a lot of homestuck songs in a satisfactory way Or maybe he can who the fuck knows
Actually, Toby Fox wanted this song to be private, this is all the notes that people have found or know about, this is why it is called numeral phantasm, you can’t find it in a lot of places, like a phantom
i think he's saving it for some of the bigger moments of deltarune bc he already used some parts of this in deltarune tracks like the holy. I imagine its gonna be like Hopes and Dreams was for undertale.
Sorry, but Hopes and Dreams is not in this song. Here's why: The lower piano that people are pointing out at 3:12 , actually starts a little earlier into the song at 3:02 . 3:02 plays its melody, then this melody is elaborated upon when it comes in again 10 seconds later. Please listen to 3:02, because it makes it _wayyy_ easier to hear what I'm talking about! It should be a lot easier to hear 3:12 correctly if you listen to 3:02 first, because they share their first five notes. Here's a note transcription: Hopes and Dreams: [F1 - F2 - C2 (gap) A#1 F2 F1 (gap)] 3:02 of this song: [B1 - A1 - B1 - D2 - B1 (gap) D2 (gap) E2] 3:12 of this song: [B1 - A1 - B1 - D2 - B1 - D2 - E2 - D2 - A1 - B1 - F#1 - D2] It's hard to notate music in a text comment, but you can play these notes in a DAW, or on a digital piano website. In either case, neither of these are Hopes and Dreams. The notes themselves, and the gaps between notes, don't line up. I know it's less fun this way, but...yeah
Hopes and dreams is not in this track, penumbra phantasm is in hopes and dreams, there are several videos on youtube where the main melody is cut out or isolated and there is obviously penumbra phantasm melody
@@GSavel It's just not similar though. There's no similarity between [B1 - A1 - B1 - D2 - B1 - D2 - E2 - D2] and [F1 - F2 - C2 - (gap) - A#1 - F2 - F1- (gap)] play them on a piano website! The notes don't line up, and the timing of the notes don't line up either. If anything, this part of Penumbra is closer to the C motif of OUaT (0:58 of OUaT). I don't believe that motif is present in Penumbra either, but *at least* that motif shares the same rhythm. Whereas 0:00 of OuAT shares neither the rhythm, or the melody with penumbra...
Technically speaking, this is true. However, I believe the melody was constructed specifically to remind the viewer of one of the more uplifting variations on Once Upon a Time such as "Undertale" (though not hopes and dreams as this was likely made before he composed that). There is also a much more probable possibility that this was just a melody toby fox had in his head that he eventually reworked for UNDERTALE, changing up scale degrees and even the melodic contour for the sake of making it more applicable to other styles of music
It's also worth noting I've been producing music and playing music inspired by undertale for 8 years now. I don't have any formal training in music production, but I have some training in music theory and piano.
Even though I believe Penumbra Phantasm will be in deltarune, there is no undertale or deltarune motif is this song, people are just so obsessed that they hear things that could be similar, but aren't the exact or even similar. I think that the Deltarune's Penumbra Phantasm will replace "Doctor" motif because is not his song. Yes, he indeed used Doctor motif really subtle in Hopes and Dreams, but it wasn't the main part of the song, more like a homage to Usagi. So, I think it's going to have like Gaster or ANGEL's theme replacing, and maybe a Doctor motif in the background to homage Usagi and Homestuck
@@ahmed4363 that's not once upon a time, the musical idea is entirely different. at 3:02 and 3:13 , the notes have no gaps between them. unlike OUaT which does 3 notes, a gap, then 3 more notes, then a gap
@@Mourangocol 3:13 is only similar in rhythm if you exclude a ton of notes. the pacing of notes is entirely different. even if the notes had the same rhythm as OUaT, the sound itself is different if you transcribe them
The gaster motif is pretty much in this song actually. Its just 8 semitones lower and with slightly different rhythm, right at 1:33, its D, Dflat, D, A. Gasters theme is A, Asharp, F, Asharp. If you play it like Asharp, A, Asharp, F, the resemblance is especially poignant. It should also be noted that the verse its used in from 1:30 to 1:36 roughly is also What "THE HOLY" from deltarune seems to be motif-ing. Alternatively but just as important, the main ever repeating motif of penumbral phantasm at the very start of D, Dflat, E, Dflat-Dflat, D, is already incredibly close to gasters theme. its still 8 semi tones down from gasters, and is made up of only 3 tones in a specific pattern over and over again. If theres anything to take from penumbral phantasm, i think it should at least be that its a neat look into an early version of gasters motif. At the MOST, you should take away that we could finally get penumbral phantasm for real this time.
Me when Deltarune Chapter 7 has the Penumbra Phantasm hole track finished at the end, being the ultimate mix heavenly orchestra breakcore Gaster's theme combined with even more motifs of Deltarune and all of the thing it's just literally like [S] Collide but in Deltarune *(Toby it's the holy goat)*
Sure, but many of the ideas here are so similar to later tracks from Toby that its very likely this where they started, e.g: The left hand in the last section is an almost 1-1 match to Undertale's main theme. This track's main motifs have also shown up in UTDR tracks, and everything Toby said about it around 2010-2012 seem to point towards it's final version being used in Deltarune to some extent.
The short answer is: Because of Deltarune First, someone found a Penumbra Phantasm's leitmotif in Hopes and Dreams (1:20). Cool. Then, Deltarune appeared. Since Toby's original idea was Deltarune, and Undertale as a game is actually a subproduct of Deltarune, everyone's theorizing that Penumbra Phantasm will be a song used in a Deltarune boss in the future. Why? Because of the song's leitmotif in Hopes and Dreams and the Hopes and Dreams leitmotif in this version's Penumbra Phantasm (3:13). That, and the fact that it's kinda of an unreleased song, makes everyone think that it will be used in Deltarune, in the future.
@@Rlaosgonzalez Oh that makes sense. Personally I can't perceive it as Hopes and Dreams, I don't know, I don't hear it. After some re listening, I think it sounds much more to Doctor than anything else. (I did music analysis for three years, that kind of destroyed my perception of music, can't hear anything without thinking too much about it) Other comments talk about other themes too, can't say I really hear them. As for Toby using it for Deltarune, it is possible, since he does put some of his old stuff in his more recent work, sometimes unwillingly. However, this song being composed mostly of Homestuck motifs that are used in the webcomic itself in flashes (Umbral Ultimatum, Doctor, Showtime) makes me question it. I know he used some songs that were like in files for a homestuck project (sans. and April 2012), but the huge difference is that those were completely unused, with no homestuck motif references. Yes I know I make long incomprehensible comments.
So I was listening to the Undertale OST and the same leitmotif that plays on Hopes and Dreams at 1:20 also plays in SAVE the World at 1:35. I haven't see anyone point this out, so I'm pointing it out here
Ok. Y'all hear songs that I don't. Personally I hear Umbral Ultimatum, Ruins, homestuck songs I forgot the name of, Showtime and that's it idk. Good theme anyways.
I listened to penumbra ultimatum and eargasmed, only Homestuck song i regularly listen to. Then i found out the rabbit hole. Toby fox is literally like a god 💀
as fucking good as this song is i really dont think it will be used in deltarune unless HEAVILY reworked considering its primarily built off of Doctor/Savior of the Waking World + the Entire Showtime bit.
*RUDE energy crackles in the air. *FLUFFYNESS comforts the terrain. *A COLD breeze passes as you four walk in. *Your SOUL pulses in intensity. *It's the climax of your journey. *Yet the end is still far. *The power of HOPE shines within you. *The echoes of your friend's encouragement fill you with... DETERMINATION.
"Two steps ahead.. I am always.. two steps ahead" - Toby Fox 2032
more like 20 years ahead goddamn 😭
Just like Yukari Yakumo from Touhou Project
Literally a minute before reading your comment, I tried to predict when DR would end. And I went with 2032, weird coincidence that you picked that for your comment lol
@@lolasohercules 2032 is a little too far, i think that it would end in 2028
@@TheLazySans95 Seeing as how Chapter 2 took 3 years to come out, and Chapters 3-4 took 4 years, I don't think another 4 years for 3 chapters would be enough.
It depends though, we can't predict the future.
this gonna go absolutely crazy for the chapter 7 secret boss
oh, hello!
Oh, hi
TODAY??? TODAY OF ALL TIMES? NOT LIIKE... MONTHS OR YEARS AGO WHEN WE DAMN KNEW THIS? SPECIFICIALLY TODAY?... . anyways hi shay how ya been how's homestuck been or something idk... it's late I shoud go to bed-
nah this gonna be the phase 3 theme of the final boss
also hi shayy
Is that shayy deltarune
Imagine the absolute power move of Toby putting the finished version of this in Deltarune Chapter 7
A pretty big motif in this track is from Doctor by George Buzinkai, so I honestly doubt he'd use it in deltarune considering some of it isn't really his. This has also been in homestuck pretty prominently so I really don't know if he'd use it for anything else.
@@user-tk2ne4uk8c It would be an amazing tribute to George, rest in peace
@@user-tk2ne4uk8c I mean, he used megaloviania despite it being in homestuck pretty prominently too. Although that one was first written for a previous project, but still. He doesn't seem completely opposed to reusing old tracks first seen in other work.
@@user-tk2ne4uk8c tbf another medium was also an unfinished homestuck track which also used the doctor motif
@@user-tk2ne4uk8c He literally used part of The Baby is You in Pokémon
at the shadows edge. straight up "shattering it". and by "it", haha, well. let's justr say. My twilight reverie
r/bhj reference spotted ‼‼‼‼
I feel like I've reached the bottom of the iceberg of deltarune theories with the twilight reverie shit
Or is there further to go?
@@Volsraphelbottom? no, there's no bottom, now you should follow the etymologies of the words "PENUMBRA" and "PHANTASM" all the way down to the beginnings of the latin language, research how these words were adapted by the English language and what caused such changes in its lexicon, and only then after you've spent a couple of years on that you can study the proto-indo-european language just to find some clues on what was the intended possible hypothetical context of these words and why Toby used exactly them and how all of the aforementioned stuff boils down to a doodle of a cat that he made back in 4th grade while being bored in class, all while precisely studying every single word of his tweets and interpreting them like a sacred manuscript and a bunch of other stuff like comparing the release of Earthbound to the year of extinction of the Dodo bird or studying microbiology where you can find some foreshadowing for the 72nd chapter of DELTARUNE, since regarding the DT brainrot, **THERE'S NO BOTTOM, ONLY SUFFERING :3**
good luck !
or just wait patiently for the game to release :3
@@Volsraphel You've basically hit the bottom for now, I'd say. You could make up crackpot theories on what the ending of Deltarune actually is all day and try to 'prove' things from a single piece of shaky subjective evidence, but there's 5 more chapters until then (although I personally theorize there's going to be a Chapter 8 because each chapter has an associated soul/soul color and _eight_ humans fell down in Undertale, not seven) and besides vague hints from Toby himself and leitmotifs in his older music, you're not going to get many more answers than that.
Best we can say is that Gaster's definitely at least part of the reason why DR's happening, although whether or not he's the scheming mastermind or the guy trying to pull off a side plot while another villain's trying to cause the Angel's Heaven to happen is left unknown still.
@@invalid_user_handlemy theory is that actually Spamton will remain the most popular superboss and the rest will be [big], but not as [big] as Spamton
EB: "Hello Kris it is I John Egbert"
john remembers youre shit is wrecked
**Me pretending to be surprised when this banger starts playing in one of the most cathartic moments of Deltarune**
i imagine it'll play either against the angel, the player, or gaster.
@@okluminous566or all three, like an trinity, a shattered vessel, broken across time and space, a Angel who pulls the strings, and a puppet who follows the story, hand in hand...
(PS: the player is the puppet.)
@@lourdespachla6516 THE TITANS ARE THE VESSEL, ANGEL AND GASTER, HOLY DAMN-
@@alterveli imagine if we are right lol
@@okluminous566 how tf would we fight ourselves?
oh thats once upon a time. thats once upon a time in my penumbra phantasm
oh thats penumbra phantasm. thats penumbra phantasm in my THE HOLY
oh thats penumbra phantasm. thats penumbra phantasm in my Hopes and Dreams
oh thats penumbra phantasm. thats penumbra phantasm in my Finale
@@CG09_TMP oh thats . thats in my d-
Maybe that means something for Deltarune's ending...?
(Asriel is the final boss)
I have a feeling this, alongside Deltarune, will be Toby Fox's magnum opus
Hopes and Dreams is my favorite video game track ever, and the UNDERTALE True End is my favorite game ending ever. I think only Toby can top those two things with the end of DELTARUNE and maybe a finished version of this track. Whatever he's planning to show us, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
@@ediblepencil494 funnily enough, the genocide run is my favorite ending of any video game because it's where you've always truly been led. Flowey, toriel, determination, gaster the pacifist, neutral, everything has come to climax into this bleak darkness and bleak ending, telling you that there's nothing here any more. Fucking peak
@@elliottlava7784fym you’ve been led to geno? The only thing hinting at it is flowey saying it’s kill or be killed, everyone else tells us not to.
@@miniwhiffy3465 I mean, it’s obvious that after sparing everyone, you would think of “what happens if I kill everyone?”
You almost have to wonder what actually happened in that dream Toby had all the way back in 2011. Why was it so important for him to dedicate all this time to recreating it? Many of his older, pre-DR (and even pre-UT) songs seem to have connections to them both... it's as if everything's building up to this one story.
I can only hope it's going to be a masterpiece when it's all said and done. Toby's known for having made many of his songs, often melody only, in piano form before finalizing them; and considering this song's only _ever_ been in piano... we don't know what it's truly supposed to sound like, even now.
He’s plagued by visions
we do have snippets of some versions, actually, and a few midi recreations
my guy had a prophetic vision
i will never get over how one of the main plot tracks never actually got released, i find that so interesting!
Not only one of the main plot tracks, but the progenitor of some of the most iconic entries in the soundtrack. It's a song that's only ever been referenced, never released.
You could say it's a... phantasm track
On one hand, I feel like that’s pretty much perfect for this track. On the other, I wish we could listen to the last draft of the track Toby made. I know the mixing will probably be kinda horrendous, but I wanna hear it just for the sake of being able to say I did.
@@FrostyMac Im like 99% sure the reason he never released the final mix is its gonna be in deltarune
@@blebbbder6216
I’m sure it will be- there’s a whole theory about it, and it makes perfect sense
Oh, this is where the counter-motif for Doctor used in some of the many arrangements (Savior of the Waking World, for one) is from originally. It's really hard to track leitmotifs if certain tracks remain unreleased.
ikr, i've always called it the "savior of the waking world" motif bc it was the first song i could find which used it.
Ok something really insane I wanted to point out, that I'm kinda surprised I haven't yet considering how shocked I was when I found out.
If you listen to Hopes and Dreams from Undertale's OST, and go to 1:19 in the song, and listen closely to the piano chords... That's Penumbra Phantasm. Like, the main melody.
Now this already has some crazy implications, especially given the theories that Penumbra Phantasm may be a big part of Deltarune. But you wanna know what's even crazier? Go to 3:13 on this video, and listen closely to the tenor piano, between the melody chords and the rapidly moving bass.
That's Once Upon a Time, or in this case Hopes and Dreams. It's subtle sure, but it's there. Years before Toby even started on Undertale, the melody of Undertale's main leitmotif was in his head, and he mixed it into the song. And then, he called back to it when he released Undertale, with Hopes and Dreams.
And now? Well, that remains to be seen, but considering we've already heard bits of Once Upon a Time in Deltarune, I find it likely that the connection between these songs will be made clear with Deltarune's full release, and Penumbra Phantasm, from the edge of shadow, will finally get its time in the light.
hmm, personally i don't think that 3:13 part is supposed to be once upon a time. the notes don't quite line up.
if anything, it sounds more similar to 1:03 of Lifdoff, another homestuck song
also worth noting: this version of penumbra comes from 2017, and it's the only version to have that tenor piano melody
@@pkchiptune Idk about you but that tenor piano is like exactly the beginning of Hopes and Dreams, which is an altered version of Once Upon a Time.
And if anything that part only being in this 2017 version (which I feel like I should note that this is the only official full version of Penumbra Phantasm) only seems to solidify that it's Once Upon a Time, if it came out after Undertale.
@@TheAdvertisement i mean? the surface similarity is definitely there, but i don't think it's the same motif. the notes are a bit off
to be clear, we're talking about 0:45 of hopes & dreams, and 0:58 of Once upon a time, right? that's the part that sounds similar to me.
also, there's another full-ish version of penumbra, awakeningcrap2.mid. and that version doesn't have the part from 3:13 of this one
@@pkchiptune No we're talking about the start of both songs wth are you talking about. Also I listened to Lifdoff and couldn't hear anything.
Full-ish but still incomplete.
@@TheAdvertisement ah okay. well if it's not that, i don't understand what the similarity is. i guess i'll try listening to it a bit more?
i wish youtube would let me post an audio comparison of what i'm hearing, but links usually get filtered in comments...
when this (probably) plays in deltarune, i will keel over, seeing everything brought together
iam so out of touch, can u explain? did he say somn about this song?😭
@@elilettuce The main melody of Penumbra Phantasm is reused in THE HOLY, the song that plays before you seal a fountain. When talking about Penumbra Phantasm in 2011 Toby would say cryptic things about light and dark and dreams, which now seems like an obvious connection to Deltarune. The song was also being worked on around the time Toby came up with Deltarune.
Combined with the fact that Phantasm plays in the background of Hopes and Dreams and Hopes and Dreams plays near the end of Phantasm, people think Penumbra Phantasm may become a full song at the end of Deltarune, maybe even a finale theme.
@@justdark863 thank you! such great info!!
Let's hope he doesn't back away from this idea since a lot of people now know about it
@@XplosivDSToby isn't that kind of storyteller. He's subversive, but not to the point of sacrificing a good story beat. If he isn't gonna use Penumbra Phantasm, he's gonna make something just as appropriate.
I feel like toby’s composing has changed a lot since homestuck so if this song actually ends up in deltarune I really wonder how exactly it’ll sound like
The Fun Gang's worst enemies at the beginning: divorced spade and robot
The Fun Gang's worst enemies at the end: A gray SOULless look-alike of Kris who seeks freedom by gaining the Player's SOUL, Noelle's missing sister who is responsible for causing the apocalypse, and the incarnation of the concept of fate.
wait wrong penumbra phantasm
And then there's Wing Gaster
@@whocaresaboutthename6850bro thinks Gaster is going to be a villain 💀
@@GSavel Better then being goofy good guy, he was literally always depicated as scary and a in-universe creepypasta, him not being a villain is a waste
@@whocaresaboutthename6850 Bruh. He literally built the CORE. Y'know, THE THING THAT POWERS THE ENTIRE UNDERGROUND. If that doesn't sound like what an at least somewhat good person (e.g. not a villain) would do, I don't know what does.
@@SalutingHades41yeah and he also made the Secret Bosses go insane as well as possibly being affiliated with the Knight lol
Together, we are Deltarune
The true deltarune are the friends we made along the way
That rlly was a "Deltarune Chapter 7" huh Kris?
@@whocaresaboutthename6850 HIT THE MUSIC SUSIE!!!!
shattering the twilight reverie time
I've been sort of waiting for this song to come out since the mid-2010s. There was a little speculation back in 2016 when Homestuck Vol. 10 came out that it woudl be released on it but it never happened. I forget exactly when Toby was said to be working on it. After a while you just cope with the fact that Homestuck ended, he moved, on, and the song just got scrapped. But man, if this really ends up in Deltarune, it would be amazing. The culmination of about a decade of buildup.
TOBY PLEASE LIBERATE OUR WEBCOMIC WITH YOUR NINTENDO DELTARUNE MONEY
Calling it now, this is gonna be the final boss theme of DR, when we have to take on the horned Titan defending the Grand Fountain in order to undo the Roaring.
"The HOLY" does kind of sound like a potential lead up into this theme.
leave homestuck alone
I mean.... Just listen right at 0:24 .... That is my castle town's motif/ralsei's lullaby. This is definitely something here, and I think we will get a finished version down the line.
jade is the final boss, finally
@@eris2268 theres Hopes and Dreams at 3:13
those last 30 seconds are the best thing toby fox has ever made holy hell
Two things to note:
-This theme's general flow, tempo, and structure are very similar to Necrofantasia, which makes sense since that's a track from the *Phantasm* stage of Perfect Cherry Blossom.
-The left hand at 3:13 sounds very familiar... Once Upon a Time, perhaps?
Thanks for idea, I'll try it.
@@gooeyPhantasm oh shit I forgot it
@@baltofarlander2618 did you forget again?
@@hemoglobinExploiter I'm too busy and tired too try it recently, sorry...
@@baltofarlander2618 nah dw i was just askin, besides it's not really too important lol. i hope you feel less tired soon
toby's gonna release this song once he dies on his quest bed and ascends to god tier
toby dies when deltarune chapter 6 & 7 come out confirmed
@@GSavel shut the fuck up this isnt about deltarune
After he becomes god tier, he makes deltarune Real
@@Zedryx69Spamton coming out of the TV like Annoying Orange
@@anueutsuho7425 Micheal Deltarune
I don't want to die if it means that I can no longer listen to Toby's music.
Theory: The roaring from Deltarune will take place during a lunar eclipse, and this leitmotif will be the song playing during the roaring. A penumbra is the part where the light of the sun meets the shadow of the earth during a lunar eclipse, or in other words, "At shadow's edge, shatter the twilight reverie."
Susie: Uh, Kris? Is it just me, or is the moon... big?
Kris: ...moon big.
@GSavel iirc the moon doesn't change in size during a lunar eclipse, but it turns a dark red.
1:41 - 1:53 Toby Fox just starts jamming in touhou.
homestuck and deltarune fans,,,, rejoice
plese i need context what is it about deltarune? is toby going 2 use this song?
@@elilettuceToby Fox's official words for the song are:
AT "SHADOW'S EDGE", SHATTER THE TWILIGHT REVERIE.
Toby Fox's first tweet was in 2011, around the same time he had the dream that inspired DELTARUNE's ending.
The tweet said:
"The edge of the shadow, where reality and dream meet"
"Penumbra" basically means the edge of a shadow, while "Phantasm" is a fancy word for dreams and fantasy.
The dark worlds are fantasy worlds very similar to dreams, and the legend of DELTA RUNE mentions "WORLDS' edge"
So it's very likely Penumbra Phantasm was a DELTARUNE song all along, not a Homestuck song, thus it's also likely the full version will play at the ending of the game.
@@Endorsed1320 woah... so this is the very origin of the motif, even if it got used for homestuck a few more times if im not mistaken. im eager to hear the final version for deltarune. thanks!!
@@elilettuce the origin is Doctor, but toby has since basically all but adopted it and is keeping the original composer's memory alive by continuing to reuse it
@@Endorsed1320 phantasm means ghost
the music name could be "translated" into shadow ghost
1:06 This has the same motif as THE HOLY.
0:00 is very similar to the unused "Fountain" theme
Yes it is
Also you can hear My Castle Town
far older
it appeared in "savior of the waking world" way earlier then that
This should’ve been in Cascade when Jade ascended to Dog Tier. It was the basis for the melodies of both John’s ascension theme and Jade’s entrance theme.
jade's ascension theme is based on john's ascension theme
I know, dude
@@siliconmonday so it already is in cascade
What I meant by the original comment is, this should’ve been in Cascade *instead* of Savior of the Dreaming Dead. Because this song contains the *original* god tier leitmotif (Savior of the Waking World), it would be cool if this song was Jade’s god tier theme, as it also contains the piano melody from Umbral Ultimatum.
it already does contain it
Another day, another Old toby fox tumblr song that is predicted to be used in Deltarune.
as someone who has never touched Homestuck... This ones really cool though! Has elements of "Fountain" in it
Also sounds very similar to THE HOLY
* No turning back.
* The veins of you and Kris course with
determination.
* Memories flash before your eyes.
* It's the end.
* The land quakes with justice.
* The sea wades with aspiration.
* The stars shine with patience.
* The air crackles with freedom.
•CHECK•
* THE ANGEL - AT 77777 DF 77777
* A being born of darkness, dedicated to
resetting the world back to its beginning.
* Impossible to defeat.
"The land" = Dunes
justice = Clover's SOUL trait (duh)
"The sea" = Waterfall?
aspiration = Frisk's SOUL trait???
"The stars" = The Dark World
patience = Kris's SOUL trait?
@@SalutingHades41Correct!
But UTY isn’t canon,,,
@@marketgardennnthat's what they want you to think
@@GSavel it literally isnt tho as much as I love it
All the dislikes are the characters that survived homestuck.
Oh wait
I'm legit impressed this has been up for over a year and a half and still doesn't have a single dislike. I'm also kinda shocked it doesn't have more than a couple hundred likes, but... *shrugs*
Corona MacGuinness it does now
Woah it’s been 7 months without a dislike
*mspca reader disliked
Well it makes sense because pm and mspaint survived but why would mspaint dislike that ? So basically PM disliked that.
I just realized the thumbnail is a Radiation Fox. Well played.
shit your pants
Bec is a dog, but i've never realized how clever that is
erm actually thats bec
bec is a dog (or a devil beast)
my favorite part of deltarune is when the Annoying Dog turns into Bec and uses Papyrus's special attack
Beginning of Chapter 1: retrieve chalk from closet
End of Chapter 0: Destroy the indestructible god of darkness
average jrpg, huh?
1:27 Area zero leitmotiv origin (pokemon SV)
It has to be my favorite Homestuck song.
VERY
VERY
INTERESTING
we all know exactly who toby’s favorite character is lol
Shrek, obviously
oh shit
shrek has the queens ring
he has now become
*shrec noir*
It's Terezi
@@FiSH-iSH stop
Its kris lol
i knew savior of the waking world sounded familiar. people kept saying its gonna appear in deltarune even thought most of the motifs in here were in undertale AND homestuck ( i love this song though)
I really hope I'm not the first to make the connection here that both Homestuck and Undertale have OSTs built around a song that does not exist
(Many songs in Homestuck use this song's motif, and many songs in Undertale use the Gaster's Theme motif)
i believe you are gaslighting yourself with the gaster's theme connections in undertale - happens all the time, and it's reasonable, since gaster's theme is a very simple 4-note arpeggio, so hearing it everywhere is... fair enough
frankly, gaster's theme appears far more in deltarune
@ericr.malice318 what no its always been in the ost you're gaslighting yourself into thinking it isn't
@@thecoolexclamationpoint no I'm not - I am fairly sure Gaster's Theme is not used as a lietmotif in Undertale in the same way it is in Deltarune - it's just easy to hear it when it isn't there becaude of how simple of a lietmotif it is.
@ericr.malice318 nuh uh it's always been there you've been gaslighting yourself idk what you're on about
Hey, I suggest you both check out Andrew Cunningham's video on Gaster's theme
Listening to this while poo
Epic!!
I tought girls didn't poo...
Hello youtube autogenerated "Music of Japan" mix, we meet at last.
This is a kickass battle theme, fr fr
So everyone is saying this this should be in Deltarune, but if you listen to the part from 2:51 to 2:56 it sounds kind of like a sped up version of She's Playing Piano from Undertale, which in turn is a piano version of the latter part of Alphys's theme.
huh
i kinda hear it actually
neat
2:57 is some ruins
There is a part of THE HOLY that always reminded me of the part at 1:06. The notes aren't exactly the same, though.
Late, but I wouldn't be surprised if especially the beta version of Alphys was inspired by Doctor. It's certainly not the first Undertale track to find its origins in Doctor, either, given that Another Medium was derived from a remix of the track, which Toby dubbed "Patient." I also do agree that THE HOLY bears some resemblance to Penumbra Phantasm, although I'm not sure if that's just me trying to trick myself into believing it.
Not a primary source, but I've been informed that Toby apparently doesn't want this widely publicized. So, everyone reading this: avoid sharing it to large groups I suppose?
Sam Deen *Sends it to large groups anyway*
Oops.
Why doesn't he even want that? It's amazing -_- Toby needs to trust himself more.
@@selinnazsur2328 Maybe it's an incomplete version and he still wants to finetune it before the "formal" release?
hopefully toby will put it in ether hiveswap or deltarune
Toby Fox has been stewing on this song for years and years, I guess he's still planning to use it somewhere eventually.
Im seeing all these comments from years ago and I'm just over here like "huh unused Toby track wonder what it sounds like"
I can't wait for the world to fall in love with you like I did.
OH YOU ARE THE GUY FROM THE FROM THE VIDEO FROM THE
every single time the Once Upon A Time motif kicks in near the end i get so many chills
Why's everyone's surprised? I've been listening to this godlike theme for 7 years now.
this song is seriously so beautiful, one of my favorites of toby's work
The Holy leitmotif in this
Calling it now, the finished Penumbra Phantasm will be Ralsei's battle theme in a future Deltarune chapter. I mean, Jade and Ralsei have a lot of similarities anyways.
The one thing that makes me skeptical of that is that this might be owned by Homestuck in some way. Toby re-uses a lot, and he did use straight up Megalovania in Undertale, but that song was never made FOR Homestuck, it was something he made on his own before a new version of it was made for Homestuck. Would be interesting if this does end up used in Detarune in some way though.
@@sarrakitty I don't think any of the music is actually "owned" by "Homestuck" in a way that can be legally enforced. As far as I know, the rights to all the music produced for Homestuck were retained by the musician as per their contracts. Even if it wasn't, I don't even know if What Pumpkin (Or Homestuck Inc or whatever the hell it is) exists as a cohesive entity that can pursue legal action anymore.
@@sarrakitty Wait, Megalovania was something he made on his own first? When did he say that?
@@DokterKaj Megalovania originated in a romhack of Earthbound that Toby made as the final boss theme. He later repurposed it for use in Homestuck when he was making music for them, and then again as the boss theme for Sans when he made his first game, Undertale.
@@sarrakitty Oh right I completely forgot about that, my bad
not to be that person but i wouldn’t be surprised if this ended up in deltarune.
almost definitely will not but that would certainly be a fitting way to end this song’s legacy
wow im surprised someone was here 5 days ago, as of time of writing, though i guess here i am today. This comment really is useless, huh. Also i doubt it, toby fox will only finish this song when he's on his death bed.
@@chromaphasia453 It's not useless :( and I hope so, it definitely fits the theme!
I’d love to see that, but I don’t know how that would work considering it has a bunch of other songs and also doctor :(
I would not doubt it without having 4 uzi's and a grenade on me
Given how long Deltarune has been in development, how Penumbra has still never been released aside from a super obscure 15 second clip, how Another Medium started as a Homestuck track, and Toby’s long history of reusing past tracks in his current work (Fallen Down and Megalovania spring to mind), I wouldn’t be THAT shocked. I’d still be surprised, but it’s something that is within the realm of believability.
I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out, but you can faintly hear the opening of hopes and dreams which is just the Undertale motif modified at 3:12
Its just crazy how good it is, its genuinely something special
Weird how the song just cuts out at the end withougt a proper ending
It's not finished, I guess? And really, at this point I don't think even toby could cap something that's been a staple in a lot of homestuck songs in a satisfactory way
Or maybe he can who the fuck knows
Actually, Toby Fox wanted this song to be private, this is all the notes that people have found or know about, this is why it is called numeral phantasm, you can’t find it in a lot of places, like a phantom
Penumbra Phantasm, not numeral phantasm
Pandatwo2 P22 no this is not all the notes or whatever. this is official but it was found unreleased in the homestuck soundtest and was later removed
It's unfinished.
*You feel the heat of time.
*You feel the light in the rain.
*You feel the space around you thicken with frost.
*You feel your breath on the wind.
This is one of my favorite themes from homestuck, along with doctor..
3:13 Once Upon A Time :DDD
0:21 IS THAT THE LEGEND???
Probably not, it’s just ascending notes and isn’t an exact match- but I can definitely hear it, and it matches the key and everything so maybe
This is so FRIEND INSIDE ME
Why doesn't toby like this one? this is amazing
i think he's saving it for some of the bigger moments of deltarune bc he already used some parts of this in deltarune tracks like the holy. I imagine its gonna be like Hopes and Dreams was for undertale.
3:12. Hopes and Dreams?
this song makes me wanna do the homestuck 24/7
this got the same feels as the unnamed goose theme from untitled goose game but a lot more hyped
imagine toby just makes another game and puts a finished version of this in it.
Deltarune already is being made
thanks cole
2:20 man you can't do this to me 😭😭😭
What happened 😭
@@icehero22yt it's just that it made me cry for no reason
Sorry, but Hopes and Dreams is not in this song. Here's why:
The lower piano that people are pointing out at 3:12 , actually starts a little earlier into the song at 3:02 . 3:02 plays its melody, then this melody is elaborated upon when it comes in again 10 seconds later.
Please listen to 3:02, because it makes it _wayyy_ easier to hear what I'm talking about! It should be a lot easier to hear 3:12 correctly if you listen to 3:02 first, because they share their first five notes.
Here's a note transcription:
Hopes and Dreams: [F1 - F2 - C2 (gap) A#1 F2 F1 (gap)]
3:02 of this song: [B1 - A1 - B1 - D2 - B1 (gap) D2 (gap) E2]
3:12 of this song: [B1 - A1 - B1 - D2 - B1 - D2 - E2 - D2 - A1 - B1 - F#1 - D2]
It's hard to notate music in a text comment, but you can play these notes in a DAW, or on a digital piano website.
In either case, neither of these are Hopes and Dreams. The notes themselves, and the gaps between notes, don't line up.
I know it's less fun this way, but...yeah
Hopes and dreams is not in this track, penumbra phantasm is in hopes and dreams, there are several videos on youtube where the main melody is cut out or isolated and there is obviously penumbra phantasm melody
While it's not actually OUa(T)T, it's way too similar to be just a coincidence.
@@GSavel It's just not similar though. There's no similarity between
[B1 - A1 - B1 - D2 - B1 - D2 - E2 - D2]
and
[F1 - F2 - C2 - (gap) - A#1 - F2 - F1- (gap)]
play them on a piano website! The notes don't line up, and the timing of the notes don't line up either.
If anything, this part of Penumbra is closer to the C motif of OUaT (0:58 of OUaT). I don't believe that motif is present in Penumbra either, but *at least* that motif shares the same rhythm. Whereas 0:00 of OuAT shares neither the rhythm, or the melody with penumbra...
Technically speaking, this is true. However, I believe the melody was constructed specifically to remind the viewer of one of the more uplifting variations on Once Upon a Time such as "Undertale" (though not hopes and dreams as this was likely made before he composed that).
There is also a much more probable possibility that this was just a melody toby fox had in his head that he eventually reworked for UNDERTALE, changing up scale degrees and even the melodic contour for the sake of making it more applicable to other styles of music
It's also worth noting I've been producing music and playing music inspired by undertale for 8 years now. I don't have any formal training in music production, but I have some training in music theory and piano.
Even though I believe Penumbra Phantasm will be in deltarune, there is no undertale or deltarune motif is this song, people are just so obsessed that they hear things that could be similar, but aren't the exact or even similar.
I think that the Deltarune's Penumbra Phantasm will replace "Doctor" motif because is not his song. Yes, he indeed used Doctor motif really subtle in Hopes and Dreams, but it wasn't the main part of the song, more like a homage to Usagi. So, I think it's going to have like Gaster or ANGEL's theme replacing, and maybe a Doctor motif in the background to homage Usagi and Homestuck
2:51 listen. 3:03 3:12
Hopes and Dreams/Once upon a time motif
Literally incorrect claim
@@ahmed4363 that's not once upon a time, the musical idea is entirely different. at 3:02 and 3:13 , the notes have no gaps between them.
unlike OUaT which does 3 notes, a gap, then 3 more notes, then a gap
@@pkchiptune 3:13 to the end seems really similar to hopes and dreams
@@Mourangocol 3:13 is only similar in rhythm if you exclude a ton of notes. the pacing of notes is entirely different.
even if the notes had the same rhythm as OUaT, the sound itself is different if you transcribe them
@pkchiptune it's not the same as in Undertale
But toby definitely got some inspiration from it
Amazing
Amo a Toby fox
Analysis mode:
Its entirely piano.
Two pianos.
Two players?
Imagine this would be used in the wierd routes ultimate showdown, kris and noelle vs. The Angel.
The gaster motif is pretty much in this song actually. Its just 8 semitones lower and with slightly different rhythm, right at 1:33, its D, Dflat, D, A.
Gasters theme is A, Asharp, F, Asharp.
If you play it like Asharp, A, Asharp, F, the resemblance is especially poignant.
It should also be noted that the verse its used in from 1:30 to 1:36 roughly is also What "THE HOLY" from deltarune seems to be motif-ing.
Alternatively but just as important, the main ever repeating motif of penumbral phantasm at the very start of D, Dflat, E, Dflat-Dflat, D, is already incredibly close to gasters theme. its still 8 semi tones down from gasters, and is made up of only 3 tones in a specific pattern over and over again.
If theres anything to take from penumbral phantasm, i think it should at least be that its a neat look into an early version of gasters motif.
At the MOST, you should take away that we could finally get penumbral phantasm for real this time.
It fits in deltarune
Putting some homestuck sounds in other games has happend before
I can't wait for the orchestral version to come out with Deltarune Chapter 7: The Rapture
We're all gonna be cooked if this starts playing when gaster final apears in deltarune.
Me when Deltarune Chapter 7 has the Penumbra Phantasm hole track finished at the end, being the ultimate mix heavenly orchestra breakcore Gaster's theme combined with even more motifs of Deltarune and all of the thing it's just literally like [S] Collide but in Deltarune *(Toby it's the holy goat)*
Once it picks up about about 45 seconds in, I'm reminded of Questioning, the theme for cross examination from Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney
0:26 you cannot tell me with a straight face that is not "my castle town"
*straight face* this is not my castle town this is penumbra phantasm. Comma. *mic drop*
no, i can.
My Castle Town is Penumbra Phantasm, not the other way around.
@@ericr.malice318 oh absolutely, i guess my comment implies the other way around but i 100% agree with you
can’t wait for jade to be deltarune ch 7’s secret boss
Who's here on the day of the solar eclipse?
i dont understand these comments. all of these leimotifs are one-to-one homestuck songs like Savior of The Waking World/Doctor
Sure, but many of the ideas here are so similar to later tracks from Toby that its very likely this where they started, e.g: The left hand in the last section is an almost 1-1 match to Undertale's main theme. This track's main motifs have also shown up in UTDR tracks, and everything Toby said about it around 2010-2012 seem to point towards it's final version being used in Deltarune to some extent.
Why are the comments so recent on a homestuck soundtest music.
The short answer is: Because of Deltarune
First, someone found a Penumbra Phantasm's leitmotif in Hopes and Dreams (1:20). Cool.
Then, Deltarune appeared. Since Toby's original idea was Deltarune, and Undertale as a game is actually a subproduct of Deltarune, everyone's theorizing that Penumbra Phantasm will be a song used in a Deltarune boss in the future. Why? Because of the song's leitmotif in Hopes and Dreams and the Hopes and Dreams leitmotif in this version's Penumbra Phantasm (3:13). That, and the fact that it's kinda of an unreleased song, makes everyone think that it will be used in Deltarune, in the future.
@@Rlaosgonzalez Oh that makes sense. Personally I can't perceive it as Hopes and Dreams, I don't know, I don't hear it. After some re listening, I think it sounds much more to Doctor than anything else. (I did music analysis for three years, that kind of destroyed my perception of music, can't hear anything without thinking too much about it) Other comments talk about other themes too, can't say I really hear them. As for Toby using it for Deltarune, it is possible, since he does put some of his old stuff in his more recent work, sometimes unwillingly. However, this song being composed mostly of Homestuck motifs that are used in the webcomic itself in flashes (Umbral Ultimatum, Doctor, Showtime) makes me question it. I know he used some songs that were like in files for a homestuck project (sans. and April 2012), but the huge difference is that those were completely unused, with no homestuck motif references.
Yes I know I make long incomprehensible comments.
So I was listening to the Undertale OST and the same leitmotif that plays on Hopes and Dreams at 1:20 also plays in SAVE the World at 1:35. I haven't see anyone point this out, so I'm pointing it out here
@@Rlaosgonzalez Now it sounds a bit more like it
200k penumbras!!!
Almost sounds like something from a Final Fantasy style game's boss battle theme. 😮
peak
Ok. Y'all hear songs that I don't. Personally I hear Umbral Ultimatum, Ruins, homestuck songs I forgot the name of, Showtime and that's it idk. Good theme anyways.
First part sounds like "Gaster's theme", second sounds like "the legend"
QUE TEMON LOCOOOOOOO
Everyone familiar with this song is gonna go crazy if it’s in Chapter 7!!!
I listened to penumbra ultimatum and eargasmed, only Homestuck song i regularly listen to.
Then i found out the rabbit hole.
Toby fox is literally like a god 💀
Etolie declipse uses Prediction!
*Years later.....
*Prediction true!
as fucking good as this song is i really dont think it will be used in deltarune unless HEAVILY reworked considering its primarily built off of Doctor/Savior of the Waking World + the Entire Showtime bit.
This is good but i still prefer the almost finished version
*RUDE energy crackles in the air.
*FLUFFYNESS comforts the terrain.
*A COLD breeze passes as you four walk in.
*Your SOUL pulses in intensity.
*It's the climax of your journey.
*Yet the end is still far.
*The power of HOPE shines within you.
*The echoes of your friend's encouragement fill you with... DETERMINATION.
3:13 Hopes and Dreams???
Where did you get this from?
From this link : sanctferum.tumblr.com/post/160172035612/homestuck-sound-test-4-13-17-edition
Etoile Declipse thank you
Hell yea! Homestuck sound test!
It will be your FAULT...