I mean, that's basically the intention is that you see him as a self-insert for your own gender. I had my girlfriend play through the game and she thought Kris was female the whole time (and she isn't technically wrong, so I didn't correct her, lol)
do you wanna y'hear another secret...? ... i think... maybe... ive heard that song before... coming from the sea... the whole thing. its not a "new" song. but... i cant remember... i cant... cant remember, y'hear!
You know what. Even if Penumbra Phantasm in deltarune will never end up being a thing, I'm just so glad this whole internet conspiracy gets to happen. It's just so freaking cool seeing all the deltarune penumbra phantasm covers and the whole idea is kinda nuts for some reason (in a good way)
a song that doesn't canonically exist and can only be found in fragments on the internet and in other songs.... toby would miss the biggest thematic opportunity if this isn't somehow related to gaster
A really strong connection not mentioned in this video is the blatant parallels between "At Shadow's edge, shatter the twilight reverie" and the Legend in Deltarune which states "At World's Edge, three heroes unite to banish the Angel's heaven"
yeah i was really hoping this would be mentioned in the video. Theres a lot of other instances of Toby using the motif of the edges of shadows, dreams, realms and banishing them in relation to deltarune.
subbing to a relatively small channel and they release a video specifically appealing to your personal brainrot...thank you stars in sight i am now so back
Actually, it's not only Hopes and Dreams that references Penumbra Phantasm! SAVE the world (which is technically a remix of Hopes and Dreams) also has the motif, which is actually much more noticeable! If you want to take a listen for yourself, it's at around 1:36 in the song, buried under the Flowey motif. I personally find it really interesting because of all the angel symbolism in Asriel's fight. Let's not forget, Toby had this planned from the start!
Your Best Nightmare main melody is Penumbra Phantasm but without the harmonies, and Finale haves the Penumbra Phantasm motif hidden in the His Theme/Memory motif, just some fun facts.
Considering the main villain of Homestuck is a cherub, fights with another entity to take control of his body, and is practically the embodiment of fate, this seem pretty relevant to Deltarune and Undertale. On top of the dream self/dark world connections. I really wonder how close Deltarune will get to being a Homestuck fan project at this point.
I hope I'm not going insane, but I think Toby's cryptic response to being asked about Penumbra Phantasm looks a lot like how Gaster speaks, leaving space between letters and talking in all caps.
Referencing Another Medium in your cover also makes sense cuz Another Medium originated as a remix of another Homestuck leitmotif, Doctor, which was often paired with Phenumbra Phantasm in various other Homestuck songs
He did NOT have to make a full Penumbra Phantasm cover just to put at the end of a video. That was INCREDIBLE! I loved the unique spin you put on it! Great job! Smashed that subscribe button
As far as I know, the Penumbra Phantasm melody was first heard in "Descend" from Homestuck in 2010, so it still predates Toby coming up with Deltarune and was presumably written for Homestuck. That said, it always felt like there was some thematic importance to it that was never realized in Homestuck, so I'll be excited if it does come back in Deltarune.
Considering the whole "a version he was satisfied with", it'd be no surprise that, even if it were for Homestuck originally, it was that feverish dream that inspired him to finally make something he's satisfied.
this is the most condensed video that is 10/10 which captures all of my love and excitement for deltarune and its conclusion, holy FUCK. YOUR RENDITION IS SO FIRE !!!!!!!!!!! 😭
I heard "a song composed for the flash 'Homestuck'" and grimaced so hard I had to pause the video, calling Homestuck a flash is like calling Deltarune a punch-out clone.
That was what we were always talking about as Deltarune theorists. This video is very well made and it pretty much covers erverything. (For now, at least) Thank you for making this video pal.
Something interesting to think about is that it's fully possible that Toby Fox finally finished penumbra phantasm but he can't show it until the story is ready
The fact that one is in the right ear and the other sounds like it's coming from the left makes me think of these two songs being played simultaneously but in two different rooms. Like you can hear the other song coming from one room over
fun fact! His first tweet was NOT actually his first tweet, he deleted his tweets on purpose as a joke for 420, he deleted most of his tweets then tweeted “Happy mother 3 day”, meaning he left That tweet there on purpose. You can use way back machine to also find tweets from pre 2011 btw I still have the screenshot of it from the day he did it, cuz I thought it was funny lol
HEY WAIT. on the subject of THE HOLY, i distinctly remember toby fox saying he was going to use the currently unused Fountain track to introduce a leitmotif, but ended up “using a different one instead”. GHFFHGWGGDHHH this penumbra phantasm thing is what makes me feel the most insane out of everything in deltarune so far but it’s almost a nice kind of excited insanity?? idk if that makes any sense but yeah this is a good ass vid on it and i REALLY HOPE WE’RE RIGHT ABOUT THIS ONE
for Fountain, toby said: "I actually really like this song and wanted to use it to introduce a leitmotif, but I ended up using a more evocative song with a different motif. I'll try to make an excuse to use the song in the game somewhere." but sadly for THE HOLY, it's also possible that "a different motif" is referring to the motif that THE HOLY shares with Flashback (Excerpt). it's kind of a 50/50 whether he was referring to that motif, or if he really was hinting at penumbra
I'm not gonna lie, I think the melody in Penumbra Phantasm is found in so many homestuck songs it might be a little more baked into homestuck than undertale/deltarune. I mean, even the theme you point out in the chords is a reference to 'Doctor' - a song that was not composed by Toby. The themes in Penumbra Phantasm are repeated pretty consistently as motifs in Homestuck, and the name itself is a reference (it think) to the song Umbral Ultimatum, which also uses this motif liberally. It's definitely a stretch to suggest Penumbra Phantasm was "never meant to be a homestuck song" Unlike Megalovania which wasn't really re-used iirc, and didn't originate in Homestuck. I mean I hope I'm wrong becasue it's a banger, but it's pretty iconically tied to a recurring Homestuck Motif.
yeah penumbra phantasm was definitely meant to be a homestuck song at least originally, toby had his deltarune dream in 2011 but there were 5 official homestuck songs referencing penumbra phantasm that released in 2010. if there's any connection between penumbra and deltarune, penumbra came first!
Was straight up looking for Homestuck music and accidentally clicked "recently uploaded" on RUclips, but now I'm glad I did. This is a very well put together theory, video, and song.
love the video dude! playing through undertale and hearing the faint penumbra motif in hopes and dreams literally gave me shell shock lol if Toby really adds the song to Deltarune’s final chapter then my life will be complete
IN FACT WE COULD GO A LITTLE FURTHER if you notice "Penumbra Phantasm". it has notes from the livemotiff of "DOCTOR". Like doctor w.d gaster. Also it wouldn't be the first time that a variant reference to "docto "r went to another toby project. Remember the original "core" theme from undertale was a theme called "patient". Which was like a continuation of doctor
are you on one of those medieval torture device things because god damn that is a stretch toby fox didnt even make doctor, buzinkai did (rest in peace). why are we incorporating it into these conspiracy theories, that feels really vaguely disrespectful to me if im being honest and spiders claw is in hs's megalovania but all jokes aside i dont think sans is secretly vriska, its just the homestuck iteration makes sense to reference homestuck tracks in and this is irrelevant to the undertale version. why not assume penumbra phantasm is the same
As a longtime Homestuck fan musician, it’s really fun to see a video essay on a piece of music I’ve remixed more times than I can count. Great video, and I really enjoyed the remix at the end. Good stuff!
I literally just started the video, but I just want to say that the parts of the piano cover of Penumbra Phantasm that you shared genuinely moves me for some reason? Like there’s this feeling in my gut that I feel when they come on that really attaches me to the song. The fact I’m feeling this way about a song composed all the way back in 2010 for a comic I never read is really interesting to me.
God DAMN that cover was [Heaven]ly!! I so badly hope Penumbra Phatasm ends up as the final boss theme, because the connections you made between its description from Toby and DELTARUNE as a whole makes genuine sense. Great video, and beautiful cover. You got a new sub!
as someone whos been balls deep into homestuck since abt 2013 i think the level of closure ill feel when i finally get to hear penumbra phantasm in DR will allow me to die happy
Matpat would've ate this kind of shit up if he didn't retire, cause holy hell, a story/worldbuilding through cryptic lost media released and planned over an entire decade ago is an insane long-con that I sincerely hope ends up being true- (Toby Fox is an absolute madman if he really planned all of this nearly 13 years ago-)
really surprised there was no mention of MSPAR: Remember here given that is the most recent official iteration of penumbra phantasm we've got and it uses the same instruments as hopes and dreams
Thank you for making a video on this matter ! I discovered Penumbra Phantasm very recently and it blew my mind with how the fans have managed to find all these points in the song that with relate it to Deltarune. Then I saw your video and it helped me obtain some info I knew I was missing ! Also love your cover of the song and especially the inclusion of the Freedom leitmotif at 12:12 which is always a good addition !
i was thinking "man itd be really weird to have SUCH an iconic homestuck song be repurposed for another game, it would really take me out of the experience" but then i remembered Megalovania did exactly that already. the first time i heard it in a youtube video i thought "why are they playing homestuck music over this really intense fight"
Don't think I didn't miss the use of Gaster's theme as an ostinato in the background of your cover, that's a perfect implementation of it. The double-time drums are also very hype.
Just started watching the video, I was thinking Penumbra Phantasm could have sounded very cool if played on a guitar soundfont like Hopes and Dreams...I am shocked
You should've mentioned the MSPAR Penumbra! Which as of now, is probably the most recent version of Penumbra we have heard so far But great cover!! and awesome video
Good video. I didn't know of this lore yet. The Phantasms Penumbra will definitely be a vital piece of deltarune. With Toby Fox's compositional skill and pure passion, I believe we will recieve a masterpiece.
fantastic video dude! you did a great job covering what little there is to say about a song that hardly even exists on top of giving us a badass original cover. you get a subscribe for this, i cant wait to see what else you end up putting out :]
Very interesting that this song never was fully completed, that the only parts of it we’ve heard are incomplete pieces of it? Almost as if it had been shattered across time and space, FORGOTTEN AND DISCARDED?????!?!?!
Umbral Ultimatium is one of my favorite tracks from the man himself so seeing a completed version of Penumbra Phantasm especially in deltarune would be great
I honestly kinda dislike the idea of this song being used in Deltarune. It's a Homestuck song. Its motif has been used in so many songs in the soundtrack, several of which have been used in the some of the most iconic flashes. Besides, it's practically a remix of Doctor, a song Toby didn't even make. This isn't like Megalovania. That wasn't even a Homestuck song originally.
THANK YOU ! I thought I was going crazy looking for this comment lol The fact that Penumbra Phantasm consists mainly of Homestuck leitmotifs makes me really hard to believe it will appear in Delta rune. You can HEAR the Homestuck in the song.
I'm probably just going insane but at 10:45 I'm literally hearing "Entrusting this world to Idols ~ Idolatrize World". But anyways, amazing video and cover!
Actually so cool to see why so many remixes of my favorite homestuck song exist, i always wondered why this song in particular had such a strong connection to deltarune. Thank you!
It would definitely be kinda cool to have another Homestuck-adjacent song in one of his games, though part of me is concerned over whether or not I'd be able to separate it. Like, Megalovania. The Homestuck version basically added a segment, during the Vriska portion, that's not included in any other of Fox's versions of the song. But when I'm hearing this, I keep thinking Umbral Ultimatum, and am curious how they can separate from that original.
Would love more video essays about other songs speculated to be in Deltarune - stuff like Friend Inside Me, Ice Palace, Nightmare Knight and the Sound Test songs
Now, with the Penumbra Phantasm theories, I wonder if the real Gaster fight will be in Deltarune and have a Roxy Lalonde Void-esque powerset of creating things.
As someone who kept up with Homestuck back when it was still running, I can't believe I haven't heard of this before. It makes sense that there would be something akin to Megalovania in Deltarune (that is, yet another popular song in Homestuck being reused for a final boss). Your rendition is good, though it reminds me too much of Homestuck. It's kind of crazy how much relevance Homestuck still has when it comes to stuff like this.
3:17 some people may not notice this as a 'blatant match' but it is much easier to hear in the actual song and also other isolations. some fan recreations get it right sometimes but also those are fan recreations. just... Try To Listen Really Hard With Your Ear. While Listening to the actual song
i’ve listened to the homestuck soundtrack soundtrack (and the undertale/deltarune soundtracks) a LOT, and many homestuck songs (ones that were actually used in homestuck flashes AND ones that just appeared in the soundtrack but not the webcomic) used the penumbra phantasm motif. although the song itself was never actually used (or even fully released, for that matter), it played a huuuuge role in the hs soundtrack. i hear it everywhere :0 the ones that come to mind first are umbral ultimatum, savior of the waking world/dreaming dead, and eternity served cold (one of the songs in [s] collide). i mainly associate it with [s] rise up that being said, i’d actually be really happy if it ends up being used in deltarune. toby fox reused megalovania from the earthbound halloween hack AND homestuck, so it’s pretty likely he’ll reuse another one of his old songs. 6:26 there’s actually a song in the homestuck soundtrack called reverie! i don’t think it has anything to do with toby fox’s tweet, but it’s just a little detail i noticed. anyway i’m done rambling. this comment is just me spilling all my thoughts out with absolutely no direction lol the homestuck, ut, & dr soundtracks were the only things i listened to for almost all of 2023 so they are basically engraved into my brain by this point :,) great video tho, i’ve been looking for a video on this topic! and the remix at the end absolutely slapped
Great video! I've seen a lot of fanmade Penumbra Phantasm covers for Deltarune and I never really knew where it came from so this was very informative for me. By the way, at 7:00, you used the wrong pronouns for Kris, Kris is referred to with they/them pronouns in the game
@@whocaresaboutthename6850Jaru's video is almost entirely invalidated by the fact that the author of the book said that the book is for translation purposes only and Toby didn't even confirm most things in it. It's almost entirely the author's thoughts (which keep in mind, is not the creator of the game.)
If you think about it, Penumbra Phantasm represents Toby’s ultimate dream. Deltarune came to him in a fever dream and ever since he’s been working to make it a reality. Every piece of media, every little hint on his twitter and even the Deltarune website being created as early as 2012, years before Undertale’s creation, all of his work has accumulated to Deltarune’s creation. In a sense Deltarune is Toby’s ‘Penumbra Phantasm’, his penultimate dream.
I feel like Toby wouldn't be able to leave the shadow of homestuck if he were to use this as the final theme. Like yeah, it's a homestuck song, but it's *too much* of a homestuck song, seeing as how much it's leitmotifs are used in homestuck, such as the godtier theme and generally so so much of Jade's theming
Its the first time im hearing about this song and ive been following deltarune lore videos religiously!!! I have a feeling that this song will play a BIG role in the game. The fact that The Holy references it this much is a big telling sign imo, The Holy is very important to tge game's ideas and i never could pin point what it exactly ties ti. It ties to PENUMBRA PHANTASM!!! my goodness. Im genuinely SO shocked about this info. It feels like a whole key to the game, since it works in its context SO WELL. Its just that weve been mulling over the same bits abd pieces of info these past couple of years and now i discovered something this fresh and its so exciting!!!!
there's also an interesting wrinkle to the whole penumbra phantasm-deltarune connection in that while toby had his deltarune dream in 2011, there were 5 official homestuck songs quoting penumbra phantasm that released in 2010, so if there's any connection between the two penumbra came first
![Final Chance Extended (PHASE 4) [Disbelief Theme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Kw3wHXlW4BA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Accidentally called Kris "him," my fault gang
Dang, that was a really good video! Sorry we gotta cancel you now
@@jackatk I've already made the cancel doc /j
Very well, the They/Them Council has granted you pardon... Let it not slip up again.
mods, skin him alive
I mean, that's basically the intention is that you see him as a self-insert for your own gender. I had my girlfriend play through the game and she thought Kris was female the whole time (and she isn't technically wrong, so I didn't correct her, lol)
do you wanna y'hear another secret...? ... i think... maybe... ive heard that song before... coming from the sea... the whole thing. its not a "new" song. but... i cant remember... i cant... cant remember, y'hear!
?
Oniinsan our savior!
HOLY CrAP NO WAYYYUYY
are you undertale?
YOOOOOOO
"The song that does not exist" feels very fitting for a Gaster Song
A song that doesn't exist for a man that doesn't exist.
I can't wait for the vessel in chapter 7 to absorb the soul and
Say
"It's too late Kris now I'm the PHANTASM that PENUMBRAs"
And then we penumbra all over the place
pentumbra
🟢◼️🟢
🕷️. 👻. 🕷️
phantasm, i remember
you're *PENUMBRAS.*
"now I'm the NIGHTMARE that KNIGHTS!"
its like hes some sort of...... phantasm
“Yeah this is a Toby fox song” I clicked on a homestuck video, yeah it’s a Toby fox song
I mean it could have been a Michael Guy Bowman song
You know what. Even if Penumbra Phantasm in deltarune will never end up being a thing, I'm just so glad this whole internet conspiracy gets to happen. It's just so freaking cool seeing all the deltarune penumbra phantasm covers and the whole idea is kinda nuts for some reason (in a good way)
It's very Toby-Foxian. He is the kind of reusing songs in absolutely genius ways. It would be a nice cap for his magnum opus.
Watch it be the final boss theme
It's very plausible though. It's quite blatantly in Hopes and Dreams and Save the world.
a song that doesn't canonically exist and can only be found in fragments on the internet and in other songs.... toby would miss the biggest thematic opportunity if this isn't somehow related to gaster
A really strong connection not mentioned in this video is the blatant parallels between "At Shadow's edge, shatter the twilight reverie" and the Legend in Deltarune which states "At World's Edge, three heroes unite to banish the Angel's heaven"
yeah i was really hoping this would be mentioned in the video. Theres a lot of other instances of Toby using the motif of the edges of shadows, dreams, realms and banishing them in relation to deltarune.
subbing to a relatively small channel and they release a video specifically appealing to your personal brainrot...thank you stars in sight i am now so back
ME TOO OMGGGG
relatable
REAL!!!
Actually, it's not only Hopes and Dreams that references Penumbra Phantasm! SAVE the world (which is technically a remix of Hopes and Dreams) also has the motif, which is actually much more noticeable! If you want to take a listen for yourself, it's at around 1:36 in the song, buried under the Flowey motif.
I personally find it really interesting because of all the angel symbolism in Asriel's fight. Let's not forget, Toby had this planned from the start!
Your Best Nightmare main melody is Penumbra Phantasm but without the harmonies, and Finale haves the Penumbra Phantasm motif hidden in the His Theme/Memory motif, just some fun facts.
Considering the main villain of Homestuck is a cherub, fights with another entity to take control of his body, and is practically the embodiment of fate, this seem pretty relevant to Deltarune and Undertale. On top of the dream self/dark world connections. I really wonder how close Deltarune will get to being a Homestuck fan project at this point.
Have you heard the song coming from the under the sea?
Y'see, it's not a *NEW* song...
I hope I'm not going insane, but I think Toby's cryptic response to being asked about Penumbra Phantasm looks a lot like how Gaster speaks, leaving space between letters and talking in all caps.
@radio_0021 "If you're going insane at least you're not the only one" sums up the current state of the Deltarune community perfectly.
@@brilliant_Potato"Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark."
Uh well
Occasionally he changes his name to 6 black squares when responding
So I thought most people thought this
But I guess it’s not confirmed
Lets fucking go Penumbra Phantasm canon
the moment you said "version that he was satisfied with" i immediately related to toby so much holy shit
Referencing Another Medium in your cover also makes sense cuz Another Medium originated as a remix of another Homestuck leitmotif, Doctor, which was often paired with Phenumbra Phantasm in various other Homestuck songs
Ok that explains why I love another medium
He did NOT have to make a full Penumbra Phantasm cover just to put at the end of a video. That was INCREDIBLE! I loved the unique spin you put on it! Great job! Smashed that subscribe button
As far as I know, the Penumbra Phantasm melody was first heard in "Descend" from Homestuck in 2010, so it still predates Toby coming up with Deltarune and was presumably written for Homestuck.
That said, it always felt like there was some thematic importance to it that was never realized in Homestuck, so I'll be excited if it does come back in Deltarune.
Considering the whole "a version he was satisfied with", it'd be no surprise that, even if it were for Homestuck originally, it was that feverish dream that inspired him to finally make something he's satisfied.
I think this video just hit all the right spots for the DT brainrot addiction.
i truly adore that this whole fandom originated from one really crazy dream
Oh. Oh that's a fairly subscribed to internet microcelebrity treating one of my favourite ultraniche topics in a video essay. Oh.
this is the most condensed video that is 10/10 which captures all of my love and excitement for deltarune and its conclusion, holy FUCK.
YOUR RENDITION IS SO FIRE !!!!!!!!!!! 😭
TRUE
I heard "a song composed for the flash 'Homestuck'" and grimaced so hard I had to pause the video, calling Homestuck a flash is like calling Deltarune a punch-out clone.
From the cover you made I have the feeling that you watched the andrew cunningham gaster analysis
I was listening out for that freedom motif too lol
First proper Penumbra Phantasm video on RUclips? Maybe?
Looks like you beat Solar and TheDRTheorists to it....... so true
r.v. penumbra!
@@cheressaturn tenna throw it back!!
@radio_0021 listen here, kid. You have to find my Twilight Reveries. And shatter them. That's very, very important
@@CG09_TMP need you to know i laughed for a good minute or so after reading this
This is the earliest video that I watched and commented on straight away,I mean a potentially used Toby fox song is great to watch in the morning.
That was what we were always talking about as Deltarune theorists. This video is very well made and it pretty much covers erverything. (For now, at least) Thank you for making this video pal.
Something interesting to think about is that it's fully possible that Toby Fox finally finished penumbra phantasm but he can't show it until the story is ready
That's also true. It'd be actual spoilers for Deltarune
The fact that one is in the right ear and the other sounds like it's coming from the left makes me think of these two songs being played simultaneously but in two different rooms. Like you can hear the other song coming from one room over
fun fact! His first tweet was NOT actually his first tweet, he deleted his tweets on purpose as a joke for 420, he deleted most of his tweets then tweeted “Happy mother 3 day”, meaning he left That tweet there on purpose. You can use way back machine to also find tweets from pre 2011 btw
I still have the screenshot of it from the day he did it, cuz I thought it was funny lol
HEY WAIT. on the subject of THE HOLY, i distinctly remember toby fox saying he was going to use the currently unused Fountain track to introduce a leitmotif, but ended up “using a different one instead”. GHFFHGWGGDHHH this penumbra phantasm thing is what makes me feel the most insane out of everything in deltarune so far but it’s almost a nice kind of excited insanity?? idk if that makes any sense but yeah this is a good ass vid on it and i REALLY HOPE WE’RE RIGHT ABOUT THIS ONE
for Fountain, toby said: "I actually really like this song and wanted to use it to introduce a leitmotif, but I ended up using a more evocative song with a different motif. I'll try to make an excuse to use the song in the game somewhere."
but sadly for THE HOLY, it's also possible that "a different motif" is referring to the motif that THE HOLY shares with Flashback (Excerpt). it's kind of a 50/50 whether he was referring to that motif, or if he really was hinting at penumbra
@@pkchiptuneEasy, Penumbra appears in Flashback bc Noelle is The Angel or something
Can't wait for Toby fox to make the gaster theme known as penumbra phantasm
Damn, knowing Hopes and Dreams and Penumbra Phantasm contain each other’s motifs, now I kinda want a mashup of the two songs
This is the video I needed, I wanted someone to talk about this strange but at the same time inspiring song. Great job!!!
Well if Toby Fox is a Dog, then its Not a Rabbit Hole, Its a Dog Hole
Nah it's a canine crater
The Dognation Hole
*you go down the rabbit hole.
*or is it a dog hole?
*...
*you crawl back up.
9:24 omg Andrew Cunningham
I'm not gonna lie, I think the melody in Penumbra Phantasm is found in so many homestuck songs it might be a little more baked into homestuck than undertale/deltarune. I mean, even the theme you point out in the chords is a reference to 'Doctor' - a song that was not composed by Toby. The themes in Penumbra Phantasm are repeated pretty consistently as motifs in Homestuck, and the name itself is a reference (it think) to the song Umbral Ultimatum, which also uses this motif liberally. It's definitely a stretch to suggest Penumbra Phantasm was "never meant to be a homestuck song"
Unlike Megalovania which wasn't really re-used iirc, and didn't originate in Homestuck.
I mean I hope I'm wrong becasue it's a banger, but it's pretty iconically tied to a recurring Homestuck Motif.
This!!! I don't know why no one is acknowledging Doctor, it's pretty sad
@@taintedirene5925 I mean I get it from the perspective of making a compelling theory case, but yeah…
yeah penumbra phantasm was definitely meant to be a homestuck song at least originally, toby had his deltarune dream in 2011 but there were 5 official homestuck songs referencing penumbra phantasm that released in 2010. if there's any connection between penumbra and deltarune, penumbra came first!
Best case scenario imo is if it ends up in Beyond Canon and Deltarune.
Ew no beyond canon sucks
Was straight up looking for Homestuck music and accidentally clicked "recently uploaded" on RUclips, but now I'm glad I did. This is a very well put together theory, video, and song.
love the video dude! playing through undertale and hearing the faint penumbra motif in hopes and dreams literally gave me shell shock lol
if Toby really adds the song to Deltarune’s final chapter then my life will be complete
IN FACT WE COULD GO A LITTLE FURTHER if you notice "Penumbra Phantasm". it has notes from the livemotiff of "DOCTOR". Like doctor w.d gaster. Also it wouldn't be the first time that a variant reference to "docto "r went to another toby project. Remember the original "core" theme from undertale was a theme called "patient". Which was like a continuation of doctor
are you on one of those medieval torture device things because god damn that is a stretch
toby fox didnt even make doctor, buzinkai did (rest in peace). why are we incorporating it into these conspiracy theories, that feels really vaguely disrespectful to me if im being honest
and spiders claw is in hs's megalovania but all jokes aside i dont think sans is secretly vriska, its just the homestuck iteration makes sense to reference homestuck tracks in and this is irrelevant to the undertale version. why not assume penumbra phantasm is the same
As a longtime Homestuck fan musician, it’s really fun to see a video essay on a piece of music I’ve remixed more times than I can count. Great video, and I really enjoyed the remix at the end. Good stuff!
I literally just started the video, but I just want to say that the parts of the piano cover of Penumbra Phantasm that you shared genuinely moves me for some reason? Like there’s this feeling in my gut that I feel when they come on that really attaches me to the song. The fact I’m feeling this way about a song composed all the way back in 2010 for a comic I never read is really interesting to me.
God DAMN that cover was [Heaven]ly!! I so badly hope Penumbra Phatasm ends up as the final boss theme, because the connections you made between its description from Toby and DELTARUNE as a whole makes genuine sense. Great video, and beautiful cover. You got a new sub!
Shooting for the moon with this: Toby gave Penumbra Phantasm to Yoko Shimomura and we're going to get her fully realised version of it for Chapter 7.
THAT COVER WAS AMAZING?? i loved all the deltarune leitmotifs used, you somehow perfectly made it sound like toby fox
as someone whos been balls deep into homestuck since abt 2013 i think the level of closure ill feel when i finally get to hear penumbra phantasm in DR will allow me to die happy
Matpat would've ate this kind of shit up if he didn't retire, cause holy hell, a story/worldbuilding through cryptic lost media released and planned over an entire decade ago is an insane long-con that I sincerely hope ends up being true-
(Toby Fox is an absolute madman if he really planned all of this nearly 13 years ago-)
You are the definition of variety RUclipsr rn
really surprised there was no mention of MSPAR: Remember here given that is the most recent official iteration of penumbra phantasm we've got and it uses the same instruments as hopes and dreams
Even more strangely, the MSPAR melody is used in the final cover
Thank you to make this video i really love the secret that Toby hide in his music!
OMG this is such a good video! Thank you for introducing me to the original song
Thank you for making a video on this matter !
I discovered Penumbra Phantasm very recently and it blew my mind with how the fans have managed to find all these points in the song that with relate it to Deltarune. Then I saw your video and it helped me obtain some info I knew I was missing !
Also love your cover of the song and especially the inclusion of the Freedom leitmotif at 12:12 which is always a good addition !
super underground idk if you’ve heard about it before
i was thinking "man itd be really weird to have SUCH an iconic homestuck song be repurposed for another game, it would really take me out of the experience" but then i remembered Megalovania did exactly that already. the first time i heard it in a youtube video i thought "why are they playing homestuck music over this really intense fight"
Don't think I didn't miss the use of Gaster's theme as an ostinato in the background of your cover, that's a perfect implementation of it. The double-time drums are also very hype.
great video! I really like your edit style haha
This topic is super interesting and I'm glad that people are starting to talk more about it.
Just started watching the video, I was thinking Penumbra Phantasm could have sounded very cool if played on a guitar soundfont like Hopes and Dreams...I am shocked
Deltarune IS done but can't release until toby figures out how to perfect this song for the ending, obviously.
oh i had never heard of this before. thank you so much for bringing it up, it's an amazing piece of lore!
disappointed that you didnt bring up "worlds' edge" in the prophecy since that also ties into this
You should've mentioned the MSPAR Penumbra!
Which as of now, is probably the most recent version of Penumbra we have heard so far
But great cover!! and awesome video
Good video. I didn't know of this lore yet. The Phantasms Penumbra will definitely be a vital piece of deltarune. With Toby Fox's compositional skill and pure passion, I believe we will recieve a masterpiece.
i just realized alphys theme is literally just penumbra phantasm
Finally, a condensed explanation. Thank you.
This is some really good editing, honestly I think this might be your best video yet.
fantastic video dude! you did a great job covering what little there is to say about a song that hardly even exists on top of giving us a badass original cover. you get a subscribe for this, i cant wait to see what else you end up putting out :]
Really enjoying your video essay style of content, great work!
Honestly this video would’ve been excellent as is, but then you threw a wicked cover on the end of it, phenomenal stuff!
This does not help the theory that Toby wrote one song and has been remixing it endlessly.
WHAT IF THE SPECIAL ORB THE DOG STOLE IN UNDERTALE WILL BE THE KEY TO DEFEATING GASTER
God i am a huge homestuck fan so seeing this video gave me so much whiplash lmao i love toby's workk
my penumbra is phantasming so hard right now
Very interesting that this song never was fully completed, that the only parts of it we’ve heard are incomplete pieces of it? Almost as if it had been shattered across time and space, FORGOTTEN AND DISCARDED?????!?!?!
Umbral Ultimatium is one of my favorite tracks from the man himself so seeing a completed version of Penumbra Phantasm especially in deltarune would be great
I honestly kinda dislike the idea of this song being used in Deltarune. It's a Homestuck song. Its motif has been used in so many songs in the soundtrack, several of which have been used in the some of the most iconic flashes. Besides, it's practically a remix of Doctor, a song Toby didn't even make. This isn't like Megalovania. That wasn't even a Homestuck song originally.
THANK YOU ! I thought I was going crazy looking for this comment lol
The fact that Penumbra Phantasm consists mainly of Homestuck leitmotifs makes me really hard to believe it will appear in Delta rune. You can HEAR the Homestuck in the song.
yeah
I'm probably just going insane but at 10:45 I'm literally hearing "Entrusting this world to Idols ~ Idolatrize World". But anyways, amazing video and cover!
Actually so cool to see why so many remixes of my favorite homestuck song exist, i always wondered why this song in particular had such a strong connection to deltarune. Thank you!
It would definitely be kinda cool to have another Homestuck-adjacent song in one of his games, though part of me is concerned over whether or not I'd be able to separate it. Like, Megalovania. The Homestuck version basically added a segment, during the Vriska portion, that's not included in any other of Fox's versions of the song. But when I'm hearing this, I keep thinking Umbral Ultimatum, and am curious how they can separate from that original.
how has nobody pointed out yet that Noelle’s theme uses leitmotifs from Penumbra Phantasm / The HOLY
Enemy approaching also reminds me a lot of penumbra
I’m going to be thinking about this all day, thank you
you didn't even mention [S] MSPAR: Remember
Hey so the Original cover you did for the song is AMAZING, and i can literally see it actually being in deltarune.
i like the cover a lot! i wasn’t around for homestuck but every shred of info i get on it confuses me where deltarune is going even more!!
THE GARBAGE NOISE IN SOME SECTIONS YOUR COVER IS SO GOOD
Would love more video essays about other songs speculated to be in Deltarune - stuff like Friend Inside Me, Ice Palace, Nightmare Knight and the Sound Test songs
Now, with the Penumbra Phantasm theories, I wonder if the real Gaster fight will be in Deltarune and have a Roxy Lalonde Void-esque powerset of creating things.
As someone who kept up with Homestuck back when it was still running, I can't believe I haven't heard of this before. It makes sense that there would be something akin to Megalovania in Deltarune (that is, yet another popular song in Homestuck being reused for a final boss). Your rendition is good, though it reminds me too much of Homestuck. It's kind of crazy how much relevance Homestuck still has when it comes to stuff like this.
3:17 some people may not notice this as a 'blatant match' but it is much easier to hear in the actual song and also other isolations. some fan recreations get it right sometimes but also those are fan recreations. just... Try To Listen Really Hard With Your Ear. While Listening to the actual song
i’ve listened to the homestuck soundtrack soundtrack (and the undertale/deltarune soundtracks) a LOT, and many homestuck songs (ones that were actually used in homestuck flashes AND ones that just appeared in the soundtrack but not the webcomic) used the penumbra phantasm motif. although the song itself was never actually used (or even fully released, for that matter), it played a huuuuge role in the hs soundtrack. i hear it everywhere :0
the ones that come to mind first are umbral ultimatum, savior of the waking world/dreaming dead, and eternity served cold (one of the songs in [s] collide). i mainly associate it with [s] rise up
that being said, i’d actually be really happy if it ends up being used in deltarune. toby fox reused megalovania from the earthbound halloween hack AND homestuck, so it’s pretty likely he’ll reuse another one of his old songs.
6:26 there’s actually a song in the homestuck soundtrack called reverie! i don’t think it has anything to do with toby fox’s tweet, but it’s just a little detail i noticed.
anyway i’m done rambling. this comment is just me spilling all my thoughts out with absolutely no direction lol
the homestuck, ut, & dr soundtracks were the only things i listened to for almost all of 2023 so they are basically engraved into my brain by this point :,)
great video tho, i’ve been looking for a video on this topic! and the remix at the end absolutely slapped
I feel like the “Freedom” theme (the shared motif between Jevil and Spamton) could fit really well with this, which ties Gaster in even more
This is so beautiful, the whole thing
Ben bunları bir süredir anlatmaya çalışıyordum elinize sağlık. Her şeyi bir videoya sığdırmışsınız. Türkçe yorum yapmak suç değil arkadaşlar.
Aynen öyle. (Yan hesabıyım)
haklı….
Great video! I've seen a lot of fanmade Penumbra Phantasm covers for Deltarune and I never really knew where it came from so this was very informative for me. By the way, at 7:00, you used the wrong pronouns for Kris, Kris is referred to with they/them pronouns in the game
my bad chat o7 tysm
Too bad Legends of Localization debunked any charecter even if they're their own person being exclusively NB
@@whocaresaboutthename6850 source? Ex. What page
@@amagicalbeing7427 Idk, didn't read it, watch Jaru's video on it, that's where i got it from.
@@whocaresaboutthename6850Jaru's video is almost entirely invalidated by the fact that the author of the book said that the book is for translation purposes only and Toby didn't even confirm most things in it. It's almost entirely the author's thoughts (which keep in mind, is not the creator of the game.)
If you think about it, Penumbra Phantasm represents Toby’s ultimate dream. Deltarune came to him in a fever dream and ever since he’s been working to make it a reality. Every piece of media, every little hint on his twitter and even the Deltarune website being created as early as 2012, years before Undertale’s creation, all of his work has accumulated to Deltarune’s creation. In a sense Deltarune is Toby’s ‘Penumbra Phantasm’, his penultimate dream.
I feel like Toby wouldn't be able to leave the shadow of homestuck if he were to use this as the final theme.
Like yeah, it's a homestuck song, but it's *too much* of a homestuck song, seeing as how much it's leitmotifs are used in homestuck, such as the godtier theme and generally so so much of Jade's theming
Its the first time im hearing about this song and ive been following deltarune lore videos religiously!!! I have a feeling that this song will play a BIG role in the game. The fact that The Holy references it this much is a big telling sign imo, The Holy is very important to tge game's ideas and i never could pin point what it exactly ties ti. It ties to PENUMBRA PHANTASM!!! my goodness. Im genuinely SO shocked about this info. It feels like a whole key to the game, since it works in its context SO WELL. Its just that weve been mulling over the same bits abd pieces of info these past couple of years and now i discovered something this fresh and its so exciting!!!!
I think this song is also in the Cascade flash? About 10 and a half minutes in, you can hear it
there's also an interesting wrinkle to the whole penumbra phantasm-deltarune connection in that while toby had his deltarune dream in 2011, there were 5 official homestuck songs quoting penumbra phantasm that released in 2010, so if there's any connection between the two penumbra came first
The melody from Penumbra Phantasm is an interpretation of the melody from Doctor