As a music teacher, you have stumbled across a band you can use as an example. They use so many influences combined with complex time signatures, then layered with amazing instrumental techniques. You could have a course just dedicated to them. No two Jinjer songs are alike, but they all sound like Jinjer. Great reaction!
@@adwood201 instead of creating a new genre whenever a band mixes things up it's better to just list the main genres for each individual song and not pidgeon hole the whole band.
@@Ghorda9 For the most part I ignore the genres but it's a term that is so overused it is hard to avoid. At 66 years old I had defined it from an early age as good music and crap music. There is always a lot more crap music being made than good music and genres didn't become a thing until about 15-20 years ago. Jinjer is a rare gem on their own because almost all of their tracks are good whereas a lot of their contemporaries have a lot of poor tracks with a few that shine.
Tatiana's voice is amazing, but she does not sing polyphonic. Her voice was layered in post-production. Although this is a "live session", backing tracks were also used. As for her harsh vocals, Tatiana is one of the best at moving from clean to harsh vocals very quickly. Other similar singers would be Melissa Bonny of Ad Infinitum, Alissa White-Gluz of Arch Enemy, and yes, Floor Jansen of Nightwish. If you are wondering how this type of singing works, watch the video TheCharismaticVoice did with Will Ramos of Lorna Shore where they scoped his throat as he sang harsh vocals. This video was also used to introduce their new drummer.
Actually her vocals here are taken from the studio recording, she's not singing. This video was made to showcase Vlad. If you don't believe me, go isolate the vocals from this and the studio and compare, it's identical, the only difference is that they removed the growling during the belts at the end. I still love the band though,
They are from Donetsk is eastern Ukraine, where the fighting started in 2014. The group is Jinjer, her name is Tatiana, and she is mostly self taught. Yes, there is post production on this with the layers, but that is all her. Her influences include Gwen Stefani ,and Randy Blythe (Lamb of God) for the harsh vocals. This live session was done to showcase Vlad on drums, who had joined not long before this. He is classically trained on piano and self taught on drums. He ,Roman (guitar), and Eugene (bass) are all awesome. The guys write the music, and Tati writes most of the lyrics. It went viral , obviously , because of her vocals. The guys were stuck in Kiev last year when the current fighting started, but were allowed to leave last summer to tour and be ambassadors for Ukraine. The usual next step, which it looks like you need , is to see her do it live with Perennial at Wacken 2019. Pit of Consciousness live in Kiev is good too. Other songs to try, Home Back (about the fighting in their homeland in 2014), Teacher Teacher, judgement (and Punishment), and Vortex.
I missed out seeing them last May, due to the war in Ukraine. They were supposed to open for Slipknot. Super sad we missed out, definitely watching to see if they will make stop here one day, we have a decent Ukrainian population in my city so it'd be fitting for them to come here.
@@pedrozurzica6279 This is a common misconception. It's actually not Opeth, it's Otep. Opeth was a big influence on the other members, but Tati has stated that Otep is the reason she started learning screams.
It's a live session but they're playing above some backing tracsk, some vocals, keys, etc. That doesn't make this less impressive man. They're an incredible band, you'll find out if you'll listen more of them
@@ShawkaReacts - The objective of this video was to showcase the drummer, who had joined the band some months before. They didn't care much if the rest of the instruments and voice were from this session or from the original studio recording, all they cared about was that the final product should sound as close as possible to the original but with a different drum work, that's why they used the original vocal tracks (with some parts changed or removed) and some 2nd guitar tracks that Roman obviously couldn't play simultaneously, also with some changes. However, what you see Roman and Vlad (the drummer) playing in this live session is what you're hearing in the final mix. Like Cristiano said, it doesn't make it less impressive but, again, bear in mind that the objective wasn't to showcase Tatiana's vocals. PS: the "polyphony" you were hearing is just the vocal double tracking they used for the album version.
They use backing tracks when playing live too (as in on stage). That's a bit impressive in itself, as it means they need to be bang on time, or it's going to create problems.
@@Grobut81 it’s not that impressive, 99% of bands use backing tracks live, I’ve done it myself for several years as a former drummer. Vlad is great drummer and playing with a click track in his in ear monitors is not a big deal
There is some post production; the rest is her. Welcome to Jinjer. They shine their live performances, I recommend "Perennial" live at Wacken for a follow up reaction. Good reaction.
Down the rabbithole he goes :) Any Jinjer song is purely amazing. They used some layering in this one. Next one check out Perennial Live at wacken to hear them raw (it is also post produced but more natural)
Vocal acrobat Tatiana does get polyphonic in her growl (that final "a-wa-a-a-ay" is a great example), but during the "calm" vocals, it is a doubler/chorus either at the mixer or in post-prod: by doubling the vocal input and shifting the cop(y/ies) in phase and pitch just slightly, strengthened harmonics give the impression of octaves and 5ths as those harmonic components of the voice are strengthened. There are no keyboards, but guitarist Roman uses effects to get a "synthy" pad sound (I'm not sure, but it sounds a lot like my Walrus Audio "Slotva"), along with a delay. I believe bassist Eugene also uses some reverb and echo to help add "fulness" to the instrumentation. I don't hear any effects on the drums, but that's not surprising: like you noted, Vladi's hi-hat is excellent, and his sense of ease behind the kit is surely a factor in how good he sounds. I'm not a big metal fan, nor all that into the growl/scream style - but Tati uses it so freakin' well - adding depth and emotion to the band's performances - that I can't help but enjoy Jinjer on occasion 🙂
you are a music teacher i have been a musician for 40 years...... I first heard Jinjer 5 years ago, and I'm not a real metalhead, more acid jazz, funk, R&B, rock, fusion... But if you let the musical complexity of Jinjer affect you and give yourself enough time for it, even you as a music teacher don't have to understand everything right away, then you will find that Jinjer is an absolutely extraordinary band, in every respect. I've often thought, felt and said that, but it's just true!!!!!! many thanx for your reaction and warm greetings from germany
A excellent reaction, thank you. Jinjer are a great band, Tatiana is the singer, she is an extremely talented singer who has the ability to sing in different styles and ranges, as for the polyphonic tones I believe that is done in post to give a thickening effect to her sound to compare with her growls (metal vocals) so, that the volume level doesn't drop too much. Please react to their track, 'Perennial' live at Wacken open air festival from 2019, and 'Judgement (and Punishment)' Tatiana's one-take vocal version, this is good as it gives you a close up view of her from the side whilst she is singing in different styles, and 'Teacher Teacher' the official music video, this this shows you how quickly and easily she can switch between clean singing and growling, all of these will give you a good indication of her range and abilities.
There's a lot of post production with other vocal layers added to the live recording. I'd recommend an on stage video. There's often some post production on the cleans there too but it usually isn't quite as overt as this. They were nobodies when this came out and no one expected the video to end up under a microscope. But its too much fun trolling people with it to ignore so most reactors get this as their first recommendation heh. :D Perennial live at Wacken is the usual next step. There are some light clean harmonies added in a few places that arent in bootlegs of the show so it's definitely post. Subbed. Cheers!
They weren’t trying to fool anyone. Since the video came out it’s said in the description of the video post was added. People just don’t bother reading that stuff. 😂
@@nestorthejester yup yup. It's just audio and video producers doing producer stuff. Also the video they do a great job of making it look like there was just a spare room at the studio and let's play something until you look at all the little lights creating interesting highlights and shadows and the way Tati's outfit echos the costuming in SW ANH like the poster on the wall.
Correct it's some post here, and I know a lot of people goto perennial but teacher teacher, who is going to be the one, or much better would be judgement and punishment one take vocal performance are the better show off of the band IMHO.
it's their song, not yours.....the post production is irrelevant to the song......I bet you're the one who reads the last chapter of a novel first.....
Most Jinjer songs are best live in concert. This band does their best work live. Tatiana is a world-class growler, and that's the hook a Jinjer song. Check her live in concert in Kiev.
She uses a mic doubler. She also sings over a prerecording for harmonics. She is the Queen Godess of Metal!! All hail Tatiana. Choose your fate and die. MORE JINJER!!
The way to achieve the 'polyphonic' sound you hear is to use a non-modulated Chorus pedal (and perhaps a flange, as they often overlap the delay that causes that audio effect in the 2-3.5 msec range). The technique is often termed 'doubling' and can be found in stompbox form in the Digitech Luxe, and the Keeley 30msec. BTW, Hansi Kursch of Blind Guardian has spoken a few times about having a 'natural double layer structure' of his vocal chords. I haven't seen a laryngoscope (such as was done with Will Ramos of Lorna Shore) of Hansi, but the Head-n-Neck Anatomy Nerd in me would just love to sneak a peek down from the soft palette and into the vocal mechanism of some of these great singers in Metal. And Tatiana is right up at the top of that list.... her lowest growls are earth shattering (no, you haven't heard them yet) and her low-stamina is just insane. I would swear it's a fry based on her sustain, but for me a long fry-passage is rather rough on the vocal tract. I'm in the process of taking some harsh vocal lessons now, and my post-doc DMD focus was in treating those with severe pathologies from a wide variety of sources... plus I had a long career in electronics/engineering prior to that. It all adds up to a perfect-storm-background for enjoying Metal vocals. I'm just getting into it... certainly not an accomplished practitioner, yet Anyway.... hey, good reaction. Hope you enjoy this band... they have a lot to offer.
The RUclips description for this video says they added layers to the live session recording in post. But Tati *is* a vocal beast. It is certain the clean singing voice she has here has intentional effects in it added by her when singing. Some people have even considered it some kind of belting because of how deep and thick the sound is. But once you fall into the Jinjer rabbit hole, you'll notice pretty much every Jinjer song will have different kind of clean vocals. Tati is too good to just sing whatever, she decides on how she wants to color each part.
Tho having seen them live, some of those effect are dropped when live. Ie. her singing voice is still gorgeous, but less different between songs. I'm guessing the high energy stage presence with plenty of growling is taxing, so she needs to conserve energy for the effects that are essential to their songs.
Here's a quote from the info on the page of the video you watched: "... we went to Istok studio in Kiev, did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars, ..." So they are being up front about the backing vocals (which are all Tatiana's voice). Please don't call her voice demonic, it upsets some people. Rather think that it's beast mode or monster voice. Lions roaring, that kind of thing. We don't need crazies messing up metal concerts and causing problems like they used to back in the 80's and 90's. Glad you appreciated the skills though!
This was made to showcase their new drummer Vlad. So they played one of their old songs live with Vlad on drums. But they used some of the old track that Tatiana was singing along with. Their are really no effects on her voice other than singing to herself in some parts and some eq. Also there are no keyboards. It's all just guitar, bass and drums. Metal is the top of music these days. If Bach or Beethoven were alive today, they'd likely be is some form of metal bands.
There are microphones that can double the input and shift the tonal arrangement in realtime, so theoretically it could still be live and not post production.
about polyphonic, it's an affect for sure, the main hook here is her ability to change voice styles, the band is from Ukraine, her name is Tatiana. Thanks for your reaction!
I think you are hearing the clean guitar that has a tremolo on it. It's playing in the same range. Toward the end of each verse is a doubling effect. To my ear it's always sounded like a delay double which can be done in realtime not a double track (too consistent). There is a small amount of post as there is with most live sessions. The live session is still multitracked just as modern live recordings are done so you can do doubles, reverb, delay if needed on individual tracks although those can be realtime too. They are excellent live. Some of the best videos are here. ruclips.net/p/PLhlYsqoR9XLEpHTbaOovrpa1p8L2uZ81G Her name is Tatiana Shmayluk. The band in From Eastern Ukraine. They have been together since 2009.
Reaction videos of Jinger never get old for me, the band is extremely talented! "Cloud Factory" is one of my favorites of Jinger songs, but "Pisces" put them on the map obviously. Earlier albums tapped into some jazz elements like "Beggers Dance" from their King of Everything album which I thoroughly enjoy. Thank you for the video, best of luck to you and your channel.
From the Video's description "I believe we had this idea to record a new version of “Pisces” when we first rehearsed the song with Vlad Ulasevich as a new drummer. His drumming makes the song sound really different. So we finally had some free time last winter, we went to Istok studio in Kiev, did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars, then Max from Morton Studio made this new magnificent version of mixing and here we are - Pisces video. I hope you will enjoy it!"
Congratulations! You've discovered my favorite band and the BEST vocalist and musicians in the world! LOVE JINJER!!! You've just scratched the surface, I hope you're up for taking the full Jinjer Journey!
Simply put, if you listen to the lyrics. It's the essence of Pisces. Two fish, swimming in opposite directions. Hence the two wildly contrasting vocal techniques.
They added a second vocal track after the live recording. It's mixed in a bit more each section of the song and at specific points to give a building flow to the song. Just enough so that most people would not even know. But you have ever mixed, easy to spot. That's why the second smooth verse sound more like Brittnee Spears than the first, just happens to be that level of blend at that point in time.
Try "Perennial" live at Wacken 2019... blow your mind ... There is a post production in this live session..... but in the shows they have a fenomenal sound ingeniery... love Jinjer ❤
They were showcasing their new drummer Vlad who they just got. So they replayed a song they already had on an album called King Of Everything that was done with their old drummer. All of the music and singing was live but they kept some of the overdubs from the original album.
The live sesh was made to showcase the new( then) drummer Vlad ,and what a drummer this lad is .A bit like in 1974 Rush saying this is our new drummer Neil Peart .:)
This was re-recorded (it's from an older album with the previous drummer) specifically to showcase Vlad on the drums. He completely transformed this song with his far more musical playing. He's the only member of the band with formal music training; he's a conservatory-trained classical pianist who self-taught drums when his old band lost their drummer.
They are even more impressive live on stage and most have great audio and visuals.Their live Melbourne and Kiev performances are great examples just take your pick.Still looking for your revisit of Diana Ankudinova
Floor janssen from Nightwish is another one that can sing anywhere on the musical spectrum including growls and there's a few other leading metal ladies that can scream. I've seen these guys live and they're just as incredible live as they are on here.
This is the 1st time I've actually heard the polyphonic sound as you said. No one else has ever pointed this out. I guess we both could be 😧🤨🤔 but I hear it.
The layering the you heard is there for the harsh vocals as well, if you listen closely to some of the words at the end of a sentence, like when she says "one being brings life" you can hear an emphasis on "life", it's a fuller sound than usual. I think it's the same type layering done in post that you were hearing in the cleans.
That's layering of extra vocals in the pre-chorus. Live session refers to the video and the playing within it, to which other layers have been added. The music of this song started with the music performed here, then a bit of extra layering, maybe some reverb and other effects but the base is the music is from this live session. During some of the growling, again, some extra layers added.
lolol, bro... so funny. Yes, there is doubling. Later on if you listen closely, there is doubling of screams + speech, screams + singing, screams + whispering. The 'keys' is actually Roman on guitar on a separate track. Jinjer is a high-tech band, and they use all of that stuff live as well, via laptop. That said, yes, this is all Tatiana. She can make all of those sounds fully live, with or without a microphone. She can flip the switch instantly, from one note to the next. She's incredible, as is the entire band, yet all of them are very humble about it. If you want proof, check out her one-take performance of Judgement (& Punishment). It's just her, in an improvised sound booth in her boyfriend's house in California, with nothing but a really nice mic and a little basic post like reverb and compression, but no doubling or other effects. Watch and believe. ;)
I also heard her talk in a video about how she doesn't warm up at all before she sings. She just goes on stage and does it. Which makes this even more impressive to me
There's reverb on her voice which is ducking when she sings (so it is only audible when her voice is not coming through the mic). That's very common in music production. There are also clear layering in several parts of the song.
Tatiana is 5 feet and 100 pounds of pure power.....as I understand it, "growling" is a technique using the diaphragm and esophagus, along with the "false vocal chords"....bypassing the actual vocal chords entirely.....
Thank you. I didn't know it was even theoretically possible for a person to do it without any effects... I thought I was crazy too, even listening to it more than 100 x now.. I was sure I always heard that too
yeah the polyphonics on the clean part is just a chorus effect or similar doubling, but in the metal growling, yeah, she's definitely singing poiyphonic, generating multiple pitches at once. Especially in the ending part...
No polyphonic ability, it is a vocal effect known as chorus. We used it in my band. Tatiana is awesome but her greatest skill is her scream. I've never heard better.
Dude, your reaction was so great!! I really enjoyed it. The shock factor hearing those gutterals for the first time is something else. Her range is incredible.
The spot where you called out a definite effect, it was a delay/echo. These can be used live as well as in post production, and many modern live audio mixers include such effects built in. The seemingly 'polyphonic' voice parts were doubled in post production, and there were other additional vocal layers added at some points for texture (such as a low-volume whispered version of the vocals in the bridge/outro). There is also a little layering of the guitars - you can hear the distorted guitar gradually fade over the clean arpeggios after the chorus, for example, and the 'keyboard' parts are guitar with a chorus or tremolo affect applied which gives a vibraphone-like 'wowowowow' sound.
they got asked about effects and yes there is a slight delay in some parts but its effect not postproc. they use it live too... but thats just it, a little delay... the talent is raw...
Hi, nice reaction/review. It definitely sounds like Tatiana doubled her harsh vocals in the chorus in post-production and after you mentioned it, there are some sections of clean singing during the verses which sound like she might have added less prominent doubling. She also uses backing tracks on some songs in concert to add harmonies. I've been a musician since I was a young kid, but I was never into metal with scream/growl harsh vocals until I discovered Jinjer near the end of 2021. I immediately loved them because of their sophisticated, interesting and varied songwriting, fantastic musicianship and the incredible vocals of Tatiana. I would also check out their song Perennial (live from Wacken 2019 video), Judgement and Punishment (Tatiana's live one take vocal performance video), Teacher, Teacher (official video) and Wallflower (official video).
They use live vocal doubling a lot to thicken Tati's sound and sometimes add harmonies (JINJER - Perennial (Live at Wacken Open Air 2019) ruclips.net/video/bxi3i9wzQBk/видео.html). Also, there is some post layering and such in this vid.
The drummer was new to the band and they wanted to get a fresh recording of the song with him on it. he rewrote the drum part and it was worth it. he's an amazing set player. tons of range
The drummer Vlad is a classical pianist and he took up the drums as a hobby, lol! Tatiana, the singer is self taught and as you can see is just incredible. Welcome to the rabbit hole that is Jinjer...
There is some post production, but used more for effect. The video was shot so they could showcase the bands new drummer, Vlad, and how he has changed the bands sound. Great reaction, and I hope you continue with this amazing band!
There is a slight 'chorus' effect added in post prod, which makes for that polyphonic singing you hear. It's made more audible in the second part of each verse, merely to distinguish between different sections of the verses.
I just thought about it now, but I happen to be aware of a few people capable of polyphonic singing. It's quite the hot item in beatbox land lately The best example imho would be "Stitch - Feels Like Nothing". Stitch also has a tutorial on how to do the polyphonic voice I believe.
There's a really good interview - more like a casual chat with Tatiana on the Charismatic Voice channel from a couple years back. It's called Tea time with Tati. Among other things, Elizabeth goes into the mechanics of her voice.. very chill.
I am pretty sure they layered tracks in post because they have done that in teacher teacher as well. However you could check out Judgment and Punishment to make sure as that was a single take.
Tetyana Shmalyuk has been singing in 8 different bands since she was 15 years old. She has made extraordinary lyrics for this song. Tetyana was born in 1987. Her zodiac sign is PISCES. As a matter of fact she sings about herself and other Pisces people revealing the features of character of a Pisces person. As it concerns growling, she has learned by herself to growl. In an interview she has told that it was not easy to learn to growl... it took a lot of hard work
Great reaction! I love watching first reactions to Pisces! If you want to hear poly-phonic singing, search for Anna-Marie Hefele. She has several videos showcasing singing with this remarkable ability.
She's not polyphonic. Her voice is going through a realtime digital processor. It's usually called a "chorus" effect. It's a very common effect also used on guitars and keyboards.
There's a band that today's metalers, haven't even probably heard of, is an all female band also guttural that you should listen to, the band is KITTIE, all female band, they are also great, my suggestions: "What I always wanted", "Charlotte", "Brackish", "Sorrow I know" oh you should definitely listen to their cover of "Run Like Hell" originally from Pink Floyd, they really were the right ones to cover that song in this genre, so well adapted, there you go, in the meantime this should be enough if you really want to consider female vocalists to sing guttural style and this band is just fantastic dude, you'll be gladly surprised, and I haven't heard any reactors listen to this band, not even once, it'd be great if you were the first one as you can really appreciate talent! Greetings from Guatemala.
It's just a little delay on her vocals at some points, not all the time. Though, in the growl parts you can hear there are 2 types of growls at some moments, one higher and one lower and a bit less volume on the lower one. It creates a even more "monster-like" sound with the 2 ones overlapping.
I think she just switches to what sounds polyphonic. It is possible to sing that way. I was a singer in a Band once and sometimes sounded like this, when I tried to incorporate Background vocals (which were not provided by the band).
I've spent way too much time watching this video and figured a few things out. I believe the main track was one take with some vocal layering and selected reverb. They had to do multiple playthroughs to get all the shots for the video, the main track I think was much of the wide shots and the cameras are to the right of the drummer Vlad. In the first harsh section they did a closeup of Tati on her right side and the audio doesn't quite line up from a different take. Also the closeups of band members are not possible with the wide shots right afterwards.
flipping the light switch...Yea Tatiana does, so does Lena of Infected Rain, Mayu of Nemophila, Ioo and Kagura of Broken By The Scream, Alissa of Arch Enemy (on Reason to Believe, she did it more often when she was lead of the Agonist) Melissa Bonny of Rage of Light/Ad Infinitum/Nevermore. Also Floor Jansen of Nightwish, more so in her earlier band ReVamp, for men who do it Kyo of Dir En Grey, 'range planet' clocks his range at 5 octaves plus low growl and high scream.
Something to consider is live session does not mean one take. For a live performance check out Jinjer - Perennial Live at Wacken for a better understanding of Live or you can check out a vocal one take from Tati Judgement & Punishment (One Take Vocal Performance)
The context of this Live Session is interesting because it was supposed to be an introduction to their new drummer. This song was recorded with their old drummer on the album King of Everything, and this was a song they choose to showcase the new drummer because they liked the small changes he made from the original and to showcase him. Poor Vlad, they made a video showcasing him and Tati took the spotlight XD The whole band is amazing though! They used to have 2 guitar players a while back, for a cool older song when they had 2 guitars, check out Cloud Factory!
Jinjer is INCREDIBLE. She laid down the backing vocals right before they recorded this. They’re amazing live 🖤
As a music teacher, you have stumbled across a band you can use as an example. They use so many influences combined with complex time signatures, then layered with amazing instrumental techniques. You could have a course just dedicated to them.
No two Jinjer songs are alike, but they all sound like Jinjer.
Great reaction!
True, I think they have made their own genre......
I could not have said it better.
@@adwood201 instead of creating a new genre whenever a band mixes things up it's better to just list the main genres for each individual song and not pidgeon hole the whole band.
@@Ghorda9 For the most part I ignore the genres but it's a term that is so overused it is hard to avoid. At 66 years old I had defined it from an early age as good music and crap music. There is always a lot more crap music being made than good music and genres didn't become a thing until about 15-20 years ago. Jinjer is a rare gem on their own because almost all of their tracks are good whereas a lot of their contemporaries have a lot of poor tracks with a few that shine.
Tatiana's voice is amazing, but she does not sing polyphonic. Her voice was layered in post-production. Although this is a "live session", backing tracks were also used.
As for her harsh vocals, Tatiana is one of the best at moving from clean to harsh vocals very quickly. Other similar singers would be Melissa Bonny of Ad Infinitum, Alissa White-Gluz of Arch Enemy, and yes, Floor Jansen of Nightwish. If you are wondering how this type of singing works, watch the video TheCharismaticVoice did with Will Ramos of Lorna Shore where they scoped his throat as he sang harsh vocals.
This video was also used to introduce their new drummer.
Actually her vocals here are taken from the studio recording, she's not singing. This video was made to showcase Vlad. If you don't believe me, go isolate the vocals from this and the studio and compare, it's identical, the only difference is that they removed the growling during the belts at the end.
I still love the band though,
They are from Donetsk is eastern Ukraine, where the fighting started in 2014. The group is Jinjer, her name is Tatiana, and she is mostly self taught. Yes, there is post production on this with the layers, but that is all her. Her influences include Gwen Stefani ,and Randy Blythe (Lamb of God) for the harsh vocals.
This live session was done to showcase Vlad on drums, who had joined not long before this. He is classically trained on piano and self taught on drums. He ,Roman (guitar), and Eugene (bass) are all awesome. The guys write the music, and Tati writes most of the lyrics. It went viral , obviously , because of her vocals.
The guys were stuck in Kiev last year when the current fighting started, but were allowed to leave last summer to tour and be ambassadors for Ukraine.
The usual next step, which it looks like you need , is to see her do it live with Perennial at Wacken 2019. Pit of Consciousness live in Kiev is good too.
Other songs to try, Home Back (about the fighting in their homeland in 2014), Teacher Teacher, judgement (and Punishment), and Vortex.
Don't forget Opeth, specially the singer that was the biggest vocal influence for her.
I missed out seeing them last May, due to the war in Ukraine. They were supposed to open for Slipknot. Super sad we missed out, definitely watching to see if they will make stop here one day, we have a decent Ukrainian population in my city so it'd be fitting for them to come here.
@@pedrozurzica6279 This is a common misconception. It's actually not Opeth, it's Otep. Opeth was a big influence on the other members, but Tati has stated that Otep is the reason she started learning screams.
@@regorf true. Didn't realise i wrote it wrong 😬
It's a live session but they're playing above some backing tracsk, some vocals, keys, etc. That doesn't make this less impressive man. They're an incredible band, you'll find out if you'll listen more of them
Oh I was certainly impressed!
@@ShawkaReacts - The objective of this video was to showcase the drummer, who had joined the band some months before. They didn't care much if the rest of the instruments and voice were from this session or from the original studio recording, all they cared about was that the final product should sound as close as possible to the original but with a different drum work, that's why they used the original vocal tracks (with some parts changed or removed) and some 2nd guitar tracks that Roman obviously couldn't play simultaneously, also with some changes. However, what you see Roman and Vlad (the drummer) playing in this live session is what you're hearing in the final mix. Like Cristiano said, it doesn't make it less impressive but, again, bear in mind that the objective wasn't to showcase Tatiana's vocals.
PS: the "polyphony" you were hearing is just the vocal double tracking they used for the album version.
There are no keyboards in this song, the organ-like sound you hear is just the guitar with a high speed chorus effect.
They use backing tracks when playing live too (as in on stage). That's a bit impressive in itself, as it means they need to be bang on time, or it's going to create problems.
@@Grobut81 it’s not that impressive, 99% of bands use backing tracks live, I’ve done it myself for several years as a former drummer. Vlad is great drummer and playing with a click track in his in ear monitors is not a big deal
There is some post production; the rest is her. Welcome to Jinjer. They shine their live performances, I recommend "Perennial" live at Wacken for a follow up reaction. Good reaction.
Scale armour belies!!! Virgin innocence
One being brings life... Another runs for death! I love that! That hand gesture she makes is so amazing!
Down the rabbithole he goes :) Any Jinjer song is purely amazing. They used some layering in this one. Next one check out Perennial Live at wacken to hear them raw (it is also post produced but more natural)
To focus on Tatiana's vocal performance please double feature her one take video with a live performance of Judgement (& Punishment).
Teacher Teacher by jinjer (official video) is a must
Vocal acrobat Tatiana does get polyphonic in her growl (that final "a-wa-a-a-ay" is a great example), but during the "calm" vocals, it is a doubler/chorus either at the mixer or in post-prod: by doubling the vocal input and shifting the cop(y/ies) in phase and pitch just slightly, strengthened harmonics give the impression of octaves and 5ths as those harmonic components of the voice are strengthened.
There are no keyboards, but guitarist Roman uses effects to get a "synthy" pad sound (I'm not sure, but it sounds a lot like my Walrus Audio "Slotva"), along with a delay.
I believe bassist Eugene also uses some reverb and echo to help add "fulness" to the instrumentation. I don't hear any effects on the drums, but that's not surprising: like you noted, Vladi's hi-hat is excellent, and his sense of ease behind the kit is surely a factor in how good he sounds.
I'm not a big metal fan, nor all that into the growl/scream style - but Tati uses it so freakin' well - adding depth and emotion to the band's performances - that I can't help but enjoy Jinjer on occasion 🙂
JEFF was HERE 👇 congratulations 🎉
you are a music teacher i have been a musician for 40 years......
I first heard Jinjer 5 years ago, and I'm not a real metalhead, more acid jazz, funk, R&B, rock, fusion...
But if you let the musical complexity of Jinjer affect you and give yourself enough time for it, even you as a music teacher don't have to understand everything right away, then you will find that Jinjer is an absolutely extraordinary band, in every respect. I've often thought, felt and said that, but it's just true!!!!!!
many thanx for your reaction and warm greetings from germany
Acid jazz?...."21st Century Schitzoid Man", for instance?
@@roy19491 I think hendrix means stuff like the Brand New Heavies or the James Taylor Quartet
A excellent reaction, thank you.
Jinjer are a great band, Tatiana is the singer, she is an extremely talented singer who has the ability to sing in different styles and ranges, as for the polyphonic tones I believe that is done in post to give a thickening effect to her sound to compare with her growls (metal vocals) so, that the volume level doesn't drop too much. Please react to their track, 'Perennial' live at Wacken open air festival from 2019, and 'Judgement (and Punishment)' Tatiana's one-take vocal version, this is good as it gives you a close up view of her from the side whilst she is singing in different styles, and 'Teacher Teacher' the official music video, this this shows you how quickly and easily she can switch between clean singing and growling, all of these will give you a good indication of her range and abilities.
Welcome to the jinjer world..😂best next song parennial live at wacken 2019 🎉😮
There's a lot of post production with other vocal layers added to the live recording. I'd recommend an on stage video. There's often some post production on the cleans there too but it usually isn't quite as overt as this. They were nobodies when this came out and no one expected the video to end up under a microscope. But its too much fun trolling people with it to ignore so most reactors get this as their first recommendation heh. :D Perennial live at Wacken is the usual next step. There are some light clean harmonies added in a few places that arent in bootlegs of the show so it's definitely post. Subbed. Cheers!
They weren’t trying to fool anyone. Since the video came out it’s said in the description of the video post was added. People just don’t bother reading that stuff. 😂
@@nestorthejester yup yup. It's just audio and video producers doing producer stuff. Also the video they do a great job of making it look like there was just a spare room at the studio and let's play something until you look at all the little lights creating interesting highlights and shadows and the way Tati's outfit echos the costuming in SW ANH like the poster on the wall.
Correct it's some post here, and I know a lot of people goto perennial but teacher teacher, who is going to be the one, or much better would be judgement and punishment one take vocal performance are the better show off of the band IMHO.
it's their song, not yours.....the post production is irrelevant to the song......I bet you're the one who reads the last chapter of a novel first.....
Most Jinjer songs are best live in concert. This band does their best work live. Tatiana is a world-class growler, and that's the hook a Jinjer song. Check her live in concert in Kiev.
She uses a mic doubler. She also sings over a prerecording for harmonics. She is the Queen Godess of Metal!! All hail Tatiana. Choose your fate and die. MORE JINJER!!
The way to achieve the 'polyphonic' sound you hear is to use a non-modulated Chorus pedal (and perhaps a flange, as they often overlap the delay that causes that audio effect in the 2-3.5 msec range). The technique is often termed 'doubling' and can be found in stompbox form in the Digitech Luxe, and the Keeley 30msec.
BTW, Hansi Kursch of Blind Guardian has spoken a few times about having a 'natural double layer structure' of his vocal chords.
I haven't seen a laryngoscope (such as was done with Will Ramos of Lorna Shore) of Hansi, but the Head-n-Neck Anatomy Nerd in me would just love to sneak a peek down from the soft palette and into the vocal mechanism of some of these great singers in Metal.
And Tatiana is right up at the top of that list.... her lowest growls are earth shattering (no, you haven't heard them yet) and her low-stamina is just insane. I would swear it's a fry based on her sustain, but for me a long fry-passage is rather rough on the vocal tract.
I'm in the process of taking some harsh vocal lessons now, and my post-doc DMD focus was in treating those with severe pathologies from a wide variety of sources... plus I had a long career in electronics/engineering prior to that. It all adds up to a perfect-storm-background for enjoying Metal vocals. I'm just getting into it... certainly not an accomplished practitioner, yet
Anyway.... hey, good reaction.
Hope you enjoy this band... they have a lot to offer.
The RUclips description for this video says they added layers to the live session recording in post. But Tati *is* a vocal beast. It is certain the clean singing voice she has here has intentional effects in it added by her when singing. Some people have even considered it some kind of belting because of how deep and thick the sound is.
But once you fall into the Jinjer rabbit hole, you'll notice pretty much every Jinjer song will have different kind of clean vocals. Tati is too good to just sing whatever, she decides on how she wants to color each part.
Tho having seen them live, some of those effect are dropped when live. Ie. her singing voice is still gorgeous, but less different between songs.
I'm guessing the high energy stage presence with plenty of growling is taxing, so she needs to conserve energy for the effects that are essential to their songs.
That said, Tati's growls stand out especially live from many growlers. They are rich, thick and deep.
Here's a quote from the info on the page of the video you watched:
"... we went to Istok studio in Kiev, did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars, ..."
So they are being up front about the backing vocals (which are all Tatiana's voice).
Please don't call her voice demonic, it upsets some people. Rather think that it's beast mode or monster voice. Lions roaring, that kind of thing. We don't need crazies messing up metal concerts and causing problems like they used to back in the 80's and 90's.
Glad you appreciated the skills though!
Love to watch firsttimers react to this song. Tatiana's "third" voice gets me every time.
This was made to showcase their new drummer Vlad. So they played one of their old songs live with Vlad on drums. But they used some of the old track that Tatiana was singing along with. Their are really no effects on her voice other than singing to herself in some parts and some eq. Also there are no keyboards. It's all just guitar, bass and drums. Metal is the top of music these days. If Bach or Beethoven were alive today, they'd likely be is some form of metal bands.
There are microphones that can double the input and shift the tonal arrangement in realtime, so theoretically it could still be live and not post production.
about polyphonic, it's an affect for sure, the main hook here is her ability to change voice styles, the band is from Ukraine, her name is Tatiana. Thanks for your reaction!
What you're hearing as polyphonic is a multitrack slightly out of phase and delayed by a couple milliseconds
you're the first reactor to catch the polyphonic vocals of Tatiana. I was blown away when I heard it also.
I think you are hearing the clean guitar that has a tremolo on it. It's playing in the same range. Toward the end of each verse is a doubling effect. To my ear it's always sounded like a delay double which can be done in realtime not a double track (too consistent). There is a small amount of post as there is with most live sessions. The live session is still multitracked just as modern live recordings are done so you can do doubles, reverb, delay if needed on individual tracks although those can be realtime too. They are excellent live. Some of the best videos are here.
ruclips.net/p/PLhlYsqoR9XLEpHTbaOovrpa1p8L2uZ81G
Her name is Tatiana Shmayluk. The band in From Eastern Ukraine. They have been together since 2009.
Other reactions have mentioned the presence of vocal layering in post production; welcome to the rabbit hole that is Jinjer ✌🏼
Reaction videos of Jinger never get old for me, the band is extremely talented! "Cloud Factory" is one of my favorites of Jinger songs, but "Pisces" put them on the map obviously. Earlier albums tapped into some jazz elements like "Beggers Dance" from their King of Everything album which I thoroughly enjoy. Thank you for the video, best of luck to you and your channel.
From the Video's description
"I believe we had this idea to record a new version of “Pisces” when we first rehearsed the song with Vlad Ulasevich as a new drummer. His drumming makes the song sound really different. So we finally had some free time last winter, we went to Istok studio in Kiev, did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars, then Max from Morton Studio made this new magnificent version of mixing and here we are - Pisces video. I hope you will enjoy it!"
Congratulations! You've discovered my favorite band and the BEST vocalist and musicians in the world! LOVE JINJER!!! You've just scratched the surface, I hope you're up for taking the full Jinjer Journey!
Simply put, if you listen to the lyrics. It's the essence of Pisces. Two fish, swimming in opposite directions. Hence the two wildly contrasting vocal techniques.
"It sounds like she's singing multiple voices" is great foreshadowing.
They added a second vocal track after the live recording. It's mixed in a bit more each section of the song and at specific points to give a building flow to the song. Just enough so that most people would not even know. But you have ever mixed, easy to spot. That's why the second smooth verse sound more like Brittnee Spears than the first, just happens to be that level of blend at that point in time.
Try "Perennial" live at Wacken 2019... blow your mind ...
There is a post production in this live session..... but in the shows they have a fenomenal sound ingeniery... love Jinjer ❤
Tati is a metal goddess! This song has its own reaction channel of people like yourself breaking your JINJER cherry! Tati scares me in the best ways!
They were showcasing their new drummer Vlad who they just got. So they replayed a song they already had on an album called King Of Everything that was done with their old drummer. All of the music and singing was live but they kept some of the overdubs from the original album.
The live sesh was made to showcase the new( then) drummer Vlad ,and what a drummer this lad is .A bit like in 1974 Rush saying this is our new drummer Neil Peart .:)
This was re-recorded (it's from an older album with the previous drummer) specifically to showcase Vlad on the drums. He completely transformed this song with his far more musical playing. He's the only member of the band with formal music training; he's a conservatory-trained classical pianist who self-taught drums when his old band lost their drummer.
Perennial Live at Wacken and I Speak Astronomy should be your next Jinjer tunes. :)
Jinjer is like no other. Glad you found them. Welcome to the Jinjer Army. The rabbit hole begins...
I believe the polyphony you are hearing is overtones between her voice and the guitar created by how well the mix was done...
They are even more impressive live on stage and most have great audio and visuals.Their live Melbourne and Kiev performances are great examples just take your pick.Still looking for your revisit of Diana Ankudinova
Human is done and waiting on copyright. Unfortunately all of her stuff takes about a month to clear copyright.
@@ShawkaReacts worth the wait and effort she’s special
In the growling repeats was underlying also back tracks, and that's why in these parts her voice was sounded so infernal!
Thanks for the reaction.
Floor janssen from Nightwish is another one that can sing anywhere on the musical spectrum including growls and there's a few other leading metal ladies that can scream. I've seen these guys live and they're just as incredible live as they are on here.
This is the 1st time I've actually heard the polyphonic sound as you said. No one else has ever pointed this out. I guess we both could be 😧🤨🤔 but I hear it.
Her " demon" voice does not involve the primary vocal cords at all, which is why she can so smoothly switch to her pop voice.
The layering the you heard is there for the harsh vocals as well, if you listen closely to some of the words at the end of a sentence, like when she says "one being brings life" you can hear an emphasis on "life", it's a fuller sound than usual. I think it's the same type layering done in post that you were hearing in the cleans.
That's layering of extra vocals in the pre-chorus. Live session refers to the video and the playing within it, to which other layers have been added. The music of this song started with the music performed here, then a bit of extra layering, maybe some reverb and other effects but the base is the music is from this live session. During some of the growling, again, some extra layers added.
lolol, bro... so funny. Yes, there is doubling. Later on if you listen closely, there is doubling of screams + speech, screams + singing, screams + whispering. The 'keys' is actually Roman on guitar on a separate track. Jinjer is a high-tech band, and they use all of that stuff live as well, via laptop.
That said, yes, this is all Tatiana. She can make all of those sounds fully live, with or without a microphone. She can flip the switch instantly, from one note to the next. She's incredible, as is the entire band, yet all of them are very humble about it.
If you want proof, check out her one-take performance of Judgement (& Punishment). It's just her, in an improvised sound booth in her boyfriend's house in California, with nothing but a really nice mic and a little basic post like reverb and compression, but no doubling or other effects. Watch and believe. ;)
I also heard her talk in a video about how she doesn't warm up at all before she sings. She just goes on stage and does it. Which makes this even more impressive to me
There's reverb on her voice which is ducking when she sings (so it is only audible when her voice is not coming through the mic). That's very common in music production. There are also clear layering in several parts of the song.
Tatiana is 5 feet and 100 pounds of pure power.....as I understand it, "growling" is a technique using the diaphragm and esophagus, along with the "false vocal chords"....bypassing the actual vocal chords entirely.....
Thank you. I didn't know it was even theoretically possible for a person to do it without any effects... I thought I was crazy too, even listening to it more than 100 x now.. I was sure I always heard that too
yeah the polyphonics on the clean part is just a chorus effect or similar doubling, but in the metal growling, yeah, she's definitely singing poiyphonic, generating multiple pitches at once. Especially in the ending part...
No polyphonic ability, it is a vocal effect known as chorus. We used it in my band. Tatiana is awesome but her greatest skill is her scream. I've never heard better.
Dude, your reaction was so great!! I really enjoyed it. The shock factor hearing those gutterals for the first time is something else. Her range is incredible.
The spot where you called out a definite effect, it was a delay/echo. These can be used live as well as in post production, and many modern live audio mixers include such effects built in.
The seemingly 'polyphonic' voice parts were doubled in post production, and there were other additional vocal layers added at some points for texture (such as a low-volume whispered version of the vocals in the bridge/outro).
There is also a little layering of the guitars - you can hear the distorted guitar gradually fade over the clean arpeggios after the chorus, for example, and the 'keyboard' parts are guitar with a chorus or tremolo affect applied which gives a vibraphone-like 'wowowowow' sound.
they got asked about effects and yes there is a slight delay in some parts but its effect not postproc. they use it live too... but thats just it, a little delay... the talent is raw...
It is live. It’s not done in post. In parts of the song they are using a live vocal doubler with some reverb in it.
Hi, nice reaction/review. It definitely sounds like Tatiana doubled her harsh vocals in the chorus in post-production and after you mentioned it, there are some sections of clean singing during the verses which sound like she might have added less prominent doubling. She also uses backing tracks on some songs in concert to add harmonies. I've been a musician since I was a young kid, but I was never into metal with scream/growl harsh vocals until I discovered Jinjer near the end of 2021. I immediately loved them because of their sophisticated, interesting and varied songwriting, fantastic musicianship and the incredible vocals of Tatiana. I would also check out their song Perennial (live from Wacken 2019 video), Judgement and Punishment (Tatiana's live one take vocal performance video), Teacher, Teacher (official video) and Wallflower (official video).
They use live vocal doubling a lot to thicken Tati's sound and sometimes add harmonies (JINJER - Perennial (Live at Wacken Open Air 2019) ruclips.net/video/bxi3i9wzQBk/видео.html). Also, there is some post layering and such in this vid.
In interviews they have said they use the same post production effects as any bands.
I loke how they mixed another vocal layer for the duality effect, because this whole song ia about the Duality of Pieces
The drummer was new to the band and they wanted to get a fresh recording of the song with him on it. he rewrote the drum part and it was worth it. he's an amazing set player. tons of range
The drummer Vlad is a classical pianist and he took up the drums as a hobby, lol! Tatiana, the singer is self taught and as you can see is just incredible. Welcome to the rabbit hole that is Jinjer...
Her name is Tatiana...guitar, Roman...Bass, Eugene and drummer, Vlad.
The comment section kept it Real, thank you guys! 👏
There is some post production, but used more for effect. The video was shot so they could showcase the bands new drummer, Vlad, and how he has changed the bands sound. Great reaction, and I hope you continue with this amazing band!
real time doubling is an easy to apply effect, it's done everyday, or it was added post from the original track.
You got a good ear dude! Glad you enjoyed it 🤘
There's a little bit of delay added to the microphone. That's it. And it's done live. It's more obvious in the last stanza.
Welcome to Jinjer. They tend to play backing track to add affect. That's all her. Perennial live at Wacken shows her talent well.
There is a slight 'chorus' effect added in post prod, which makes for that polyphonic singing you hear. It's made more audible in the second part of each verse, merely to distinguish between different sections of the verses.
I just thought about it now, but I happen to be aware of a few people capable of polyphonic singing. It's quite the hot item in beatbox land lately
The best example imho would be "Stitch - Feels Like Nothing". Stitch also has a tutorial on how to do the polyphonic voice I believe.
Definitely layering because you hear some whispering as well as well as layering during the growling vocals. Tatiana us her name.
The group is Jinjer. The vocalist is Katiana.
FYI When she is making that growling sound she is using her false vocal cords. This is what we call "death" metal.
There's a really good interview - more like a casual chat with Tatiana on the Charismatic Voice channel from a couple years back. It's called Tea time with Tati. Among other things, Elizabeth goes into the mechanics of her voice.. very chill.
Love it. I'm a big fan of what she does on her channel. Great in depth analysis.
@@ShawkaReacts I have her reaction to War Pigs on now.. on another tab
I am pretty sure they layered tracks in post because they have done that in teacher teacher as well. However you could check out Judgment and Punishment to make sure as that was a single take.
Tetyana Shmalyuk has been singing in 8 different bands since she was 15 years old. She has made extraordinary lyrics for this song. Tetyana was born in 1987. Her zodiac sign is PISCES. As a matter of fact she sings about herself and other Pisces people revealing the features of character of a Pisces person. As it concerns growling, she has learned by herself to growl. In an interview she has told that it was not easy to learn to growl... it took a lot of hard work
Reactions to this song will never ever get old
Second half of the verses a double track is added afterwards in post production.
Great reaction! I love watching first reactions to Pisces! If you want to hear poly-phonic singing, search for Anna-Marie Hefele. She has several videos showcasing singing with this remarkable ability.
She's not polyphonic. Her voice is going through a realtime digital processor. It's usually called a "chorus" effect. It's a very common effect also used on guitars and keyboards.
There's a band that today's metalers, haven't even probably heard of, is an all female band also guttural that you should listen to, the band is KITTIE, all female band, they are also great, my suggestions: "What I always wanted", "Charlotte", "Brackish", "Sorrow I know" oh you should definitely listen to their cover of "Run Like Hell" originally from Pink Floyd, they really were the right ones to cover that song in this genre, so well adapted, there you go, in the meantime this should be enough if you really want to consider female vocalists to sing guttural style and this band is just fantastic dude, you'll be gladly surprised, and I haven't heard any reactors listen to this band, not even once, it'd be great if you were the first one as you can really appreciate talent! Greetings from Guatemala.
Who Is Gonna Be the One live is a must. Also a must, Perennial live Wacken 2019.
I adore the song Teacher, Teacher by Jinjer
It's just a little delay on her vocals at some points, not all the time. Though, in the growl parts you can hear there are 2 types of growls at some moments, one higher and one lower and a bit less volume on the lower one. It creates a even more "monster-like" sound with the 2 ones overlapping.
I think she just switches to what sounds polyphonic. It is possible to sing that way. I was a singer in a Band once and sometimes sounded like this, when I tried to incorporate Background vocals (which were not provided by the band).
She does this live every night, without fail!!!
I've spent way too much time watching this video and figured a few things out. I believe the main track was one take with some vocal layering and selected reverb. They had to do multiple playthroughs to get all the shots for the video, the main track I think was much of the wide shots and the cameras are to the right of the drummer Vlad. In the first harsh section they did a closeup of Tati on her right side and the audio doesn't quite line up from a different take. Also the closeups of band members are not possible with the wide shots right afterwards.
Any other vocalist I would say layering or slight delay effect but it's Queen Tatiana so anything is possible 😂😂
Flip another light switch with Marcelito Pomoy doing The Prayer on WISH bus.
flipping the light switch...Yea Tatiana does, so does Lena of Infected Rain, Mayu of Nemophila, Ioo and Kagura of Broken By The Scream, Alissa of Arch Enemy (on Reason to Believe, she did it more often when she was lead of the Agonist) Melissa Bonny of Rage of Light/Ad Infinitum/Nevermore. Also Floor Jansen of Nightwish, more so in her earlier band ReVamp, for men who do it Kyo of Dir En Grey, 'range planet' clocks his range at 5 octaves plus low growl and high scream.
They use backing tracks for harmonizing and doubling of her clean vocals.
Well I guess you were right - There really is a bunch of different voices coming out of her.. 😂
It's recorded live and then mixed down and there's some doubling of her vocals here and there, etc. So, it's mixed in post.
watch Perennial Live at Waken Open Air, that is a live performance. Also Teacher Teacher official video shows all their skills very well.
Something to consider is live session does not mean one take. For a live performance check out Jinjer - Perennial Live at Wacken for a better understanding of Live or you can check out a vocal one take from Tati Judgement & Punishment (One Take Vocal Performance)
The context of this Live Session is interesting because it was supposed to be an introduction to their new drummer. This song was recorded with their old drummer on the album King of Everything, and this was a song they choose to showcase the new drummer because they liked the small changes he made from the original and to showcase him. Poor Vlad, they made a video showcasing him and Tati took the spotlight XD The whole band is amazing though! They used to have 2 guitar players a while back, for a cool older song when they had 2 guitars, check out Cloud Factory!