I think there is an opportunity to create persistent hab structures with built-in hangers. A18 and loreville especially. And frankly there should be a lot more spaceports for a city planet.
Habs are coming with building interiors v2. Haven't heard much about the progress on that since they last showcased the whitebox designs when the Montreal Studio was working on them. But they can't come soon enough.
@@Billy-bc8pk for sure, just hoping hangers get included so there is an advantage to owning a hab as opposed to having to make the same trek to the airport every time to load in at home base.
@@dave2137 Definitely looks like some habs at Lorville 2.0 may come with hangars, but I guess we'll find out when they finally unveil how they will work.
City planning immersion feels like the least of their problems, but Lorville will be the toughest. Maybe that's ok and we don't need equal ease at every port. Builds flavor (tm)
you know, it seems to me like one way to deal with "Not enough hangers" ......add actual Fuel Pads and Landing Areas,where we can just land, refuel/rearm, Hop out and run inside, etc. Like the Fuel Pads on space stations allow a quick run in/out without having to use hangers. Adding landing pads would immediately thin out a chunk of hanger usage edit: Area 18 and Lorville Both could add fuel pads as well, on top of pre-existing building, some ALREADY have pads and are used as courier dropoff points, just make them Functional
The potentials are pretty broad. We could have giant floating gas stations like cyberpunk blimps over cities, or an off shore barge, etc. Could even have these service stations charge slightly less, since they don’t have the “overhead” of operating full hangers, an all the additional infrastructure of a spaceport. Note: This message is *not* part of a guerrilla advertising campaign by the Sindrian Fuel Company. Any all all resemblance, implied or otherwise, to the interests of Phillip Andrada are entirely coincidental.
Lorville with an annex is very sound. Having two personal hangars might be an option. Biggest you have. And a mid range you have. Keep up the great work
luckily Loreville has a ton of dummy hangar doors that can just start being utilized. but the end-game immersive scenario will probably require multiple deep wells that ships descend into to reach their physicalized hangars
Not necessarily, they have lots of landing pads and some additional hangars throughout Lorville in preparation for building interiors v2. People who get up their rep with HUrston Dynamics might be able to make use of those as an alternative, whereas people without rep will have to use the standard hangars. I'm curious how this will dissipate the bottleneck?
Currently only a couple of the external hangars doors are used at stations and planets, once they start using them all it won’t be a problem. They did say that they do want people to pick whichever place you want as a home base, they just want to trial a couple of planets first
Thanks for the info. The thing that confuses me the most about this is that i thought the whole point of the way CIG are doing server meshing was to move away from the traditional instancing/layering of the game world that was common in other online games and with this update they are going the opposite direction, If i had to choose between persistent medical gowns, drink bottles and persistent hangars i would want the hangars to be persistent...oh well.
Yes it is but server meshing is not perfected yet and there are hundreds of those home hangars for one spaceport besides the public ones. Thats why they want to do those apartment complexes that you can have a home and also a Hangar door. Then for those on their home planet can choose where their Persistent Hangar and Home will be.
Making the hangars persistent would be an enormous waste of space, every LZ would be littered with hundreds of unusable hangars - a 800 player Stanton shard would have at least two hundred unusable player-owned hangars per LZ, plus needing guest hangars on top of that, all of this before accounting for different players needing different hangar sizes. There needs to be more doors for sure, but pocket dimensions are a requirement if we don't want cities to look like hundred mile wide Walmart parking lots.
@@corombb I mean if the floor of the hangar is an elevator for ships, why not have our floor be also stored underground somewhere. Like those cool elevators for cars
One way for them to reduce the issue overall (and for Lorville in particular), would be to allow the player to choose what size hangar they want to use before taking off. This sometimes works now whilst using the public ASOP; other times I need to launch my 125a from my extra large hangar which I don't even like as it's way too large and it puts my tiny ship in the queue with players that want to launch their Reclaimer. The hangar is the bottle neck so another way to optimise is to reduce the use of it and to put the freight elevators on the landing pads and around the cargo stations similar to what was done around the DCs. But you will still need 15 - 20 per location? On a near empty server we hit the queue already - in Live it will be much worse and I don't want to start to imagine of how it will look with 400 - 800 players when server meshing becomes active (although we experienced that in the previous meshing test where dozens off people couldn't spawn for minutes because there was no hub available). Another thing that has become clear is that freight elevators will severely limit the locations; two elevators are not enough for areas and people will struggle to do any hauling at busy locations. On the other hand this will allow for evolving game play. For example I was able to 'borrow' cargo from someone that was not in the party while he was loading at Picker's Field.
Solid video and insight. Testing features, find bugs/hiccups/bottlenecks, give clear and concise feedback. Definitely hoping for more landing zones for per city and planet
The realism we all didn't want. 😅 It's normal for pilots to take off and land on ATCs schedule. Wait until those Lorville workers finally go on strike and get Emperialized, the queues will be days long and it'll be all over Spectrum!
The idea of the larger port in lorville be in the outskirts is very good. It could even be a completely separated one, not just an annex. Cargo players would need to factor a longer subway ride. But it could even have its own logistic centre. Could get quite cool. Same could be done for A18 as no one really remembers the cityscape if you go a bit further away.
Another solution albeit long term is just getting people out of the main landing zones and removing them as being bottlenecks. With base building that could help alleviate a lot of the pressure on spaceport landing pads
Yup, basebuilding and the additional personal habs (whenever they come online) will be a huge boon for spreading out the playerbase and alleviating some of the strain on the main landing zones.
I'd like to see space stations turned into more serious landing areas, as well. Store selections are generally worse than city locations (with outliers like HUR-L5 hoarding the Atlas QT drive), as well as extremely minimal trading opportunities. Cargo missions may help spread this out, but as long as all major trading gets sent to the TDDs then there's going to be a bottleneck.
yeah, I have, for years, wondered how they were going to deal with Hangars at Loreville. Not even considering Player hangers, just the limited number of Public hangars that only need to be used for about 5 minutes as a player ship arrives or departs, (they can magic away the ship to an "instance" once the players leave the hangar, but for the appearance it needs to "be there" for the approach, landing, and until the players get into the elevator.)
I've watched a number of the developer shows and just have to figure they have a plan to deal with Lorville and Area 18 landing zones. They aren't dumb and they have far more information than we are privy to. I'm going to trust them on this one :) Love your videos an insight as always!
Area 18 and Lorville will both pose an issue requiring redesign, I could see them doing it with changing to a central tower with small and medium pads inside and allowing for more large and XL pads in the area surrounding. The traffic pattern would get a bit interesting as lager ships are coming into land vertically and the small and medium ships coming in for a more horizontal landing.
I think that’s best. Spreading out the large-ship, vertical hangars is probably going to prevent accidents as you can’t look straight down as easily and have less awareness of what’s below or around you.
Perfect opportunity for Spaceport redesigns. I'd love for Riker Memorial to go from the flat eye sore it is into a super tower. It would make sense that a planet sized factory would need a space port that could accommodate large numbers of bulk haulers. This could be accomplished by having antigravity/tractor assisted docking ports (similar in design to what the space stations have for capital ships) on the higher levels. And building it vertically means they could make it a landmark to navigate by.
Oh, now that's a fun idea. I was thinking it would be easy to just copy/paste another Riker Memorial somewhere else, but a giant tower would be novel as well as suited for Arccorp's theme. Meanwhile Hurston wouldn't allow anyone to build above their monolith so would relegate everyone to an annex on the outskirts.
Solid video as always Ray! I like the idea of expanding larger landing bays in Lorville. Nothing worse than having to wait for a door to open. Time is money CIG. Plus, it kinda forces you out of the game when you have a mandatory coffee break.
Lorville has a bunch of landing pad like structures around the spaceport in the cargo handling grebling that could likely be converted to full on hangars without having to do a major redesign of the spaceport. Area 18 isn't going to be much easier than Lorville, but there is some room for the spaceport to grow without having to get into the area of building tiles around it.
I too was surprised that the spaceport was bit expanded when Loreville got it's update. hopefully they'll figure it out soon and take care of Area 18 while they are at it.
Great info, thanks! Lorville could have a new space port on the outskirts for large and/or extra large ships and keep the inner city for small/medium. Always creative options for the devs and someone else noted too that base building should help reduce demand at the planet ports...sounded reasonable to me.
A second spaceport on the outskirts of Lorville could also help with the ease of locating the landing zone. Though they have been making improvements to this throughout Stanton.
The waiting time isn't a bug, it's a feature... at least I get the feeling it is, given how this entire patch seems to add so many unnecessary time sinks, it seems perfectly in line. And the reason lorville looks like it does is because the designers didn't get any brief on needed functionality because when they did the redesign instanced hangars weren't nearly far enough along to provide detailed design requirements.
I believe it was -- remember they also designed Lorville 2.0 with building interiors in mind, and structured additional pads and landing areas in preparatin for them, and those were much further out than instanced hangars. But 3.24 is still in Evo, so we'll see how it all pans out as they continue to tweak and optimise the design.
@@Billy-bc8pk Idk it's hard for me to picture tgat the instanced hangar thing was completely planned out by that point. If it was the designers seem to have ignored it, but to me it's more plausible that they simply weren't informed.
Just have persistent hangars persist as an entity that can be spawned from memory into persistence, brought in on a railing system underground or something and initialized where/when there is room. This way you can find more places to expand the hangars planet-side while not having a pocket universe. Similar to how the distribution center's cargo areas are designed.
For Hurston they could build an "instanced" hangar area on the outskirts that is massive but further away Lorville by train and keep Teasa as the normal landing bays. They should do this in all of the cities and that way for new/casual players it will be much more apparent the difference between the two by having a different location for instanced hangars. Similar to how large airports will have a terminal for the normal passengers and for people flying on private jets.
I feel like they need to only have the major spaceports like Area 18, Loreville and any others similar that may come along later operating like distribution centres. You land there in a rental hangar to load and offload or to visit the shopping. Home hangars could be located in other areas around the planet, perhaps with travel links like the trains. roads and some sub orbital shuttle service. It could work in Orison too, but with condos built on other platforms. I know they went with the one landing area for ease of development, but we are talking future content here.
We really need to have those separate cargo areas be places you can land directly at for cargo services since that makes much more sense in the game world. It would improve interactions with not just space stations, but also with getting in and out of Loreville and Area 18 when you're not trying to do anything but cargo. Large trucks in the real world don't go into the middle of cities, they head to warehouses on the outskirts instead.
CIG's designers and artists were using inspiration from commercial passenger airports and sea container ports as inspiration for what the future of space travel would look like ... but the game is built on player owned ships, not corporate ones. SC's home locations where we have our hangars need to be more like a large general aviation airfield (with rows upon rows of aircraft hangars), or a marina (with rows and rows of berths for boats). The good news is this is easy to generate with the kind of procedural tools CIG already have. Make a giant shed that looks like the outside of a hangar, and make a grid pattern of them all over the landscape. All that's needed is a large convenient space for them to exist, and a way to get to them on foot. CIGs hangars are built to support both top and front doors -- so you could lay them out horizontally with roof doors, or stacked vertically with side doors. Teasa spaceport at Lorville is particularly constrained -- but even the other locations aren't as expandable as you'll really need for this, particularly when server meshing is in use and shards support thousands of concurrent players. I think we're going to need to make a distinction between the kind of central spaceport where you load/unload cargo and refuel/rearm before departing again, and a more remote kind of spaceport where player hangars are, where you park your ships and store your stuff. CIG are going to need to make these locations.
I agree adding a new spaceport to Lorville would be a solution. Although since I have a terrible time trying to find the spaceport that's there now at night, adding a second would be even more confusing. Luckily, I have no intention to use Lorville as my home planet. It's dirty.
For Lorville that makes sense to just add an annex for large and extra large hangars. With A18, hard to say because they have said they are going to re-do ArcCorp. Or maybe make a A17 for the larger hangars.
Beyond the Loreville issue, there are going to be so many minor gameplay tweaks to change with for 3.24 cargo - it's going to be pretty rough after 3.24 drops, but I'm still excited for the overall change
Lorville will need a major redesign. I was thinking they could use the Hurston tower for the spaceport or rebuild something like it in the spaceport that vertically stacks hangars. That would add a lot of doors for small hangars.
I was given a wait time of 1000 seconds last night and I was 1st in queue. That's over 16 freakin minutes!!! I seriously hope this is just another placeholder system and they are working on something better and much, much faster.
I think what they may need to consider is a private space port vs public space port system. Alter Loreville and A18 so that they can shunt another port in, add a stop on the line for it, and have players go to/land at the private one if that is your home, then use the public one if not.
I think the hangar situation at Loreville was an unintended oversight. Now that they know what they need, they can modify the spaceport to add a few and move the city design to accommodate.
The only problem with the Lorville annex route is new players (and old vets) will have little guidance as to where to approach to get a hangar when flying in. Ideally CIG convert the central area to a local cargo hub for outdoor cargo management of, say an Ironclad or two, and move all hangars out to the periphery.
The easiest solution for non-personal hangars would be to just despawn everything once the ship is stored and the player leaves their hangar and just provide an appropriately sized hangar for whatever ship is called up from the LZ's terminal. That way, a player still has an option to pick their largest hangar by summoning the big ship (then storing it from inside the hangar to summon a smaller ship whatever that may be needed for), but not take up an XL hangar with a Pisces. Lorville is indeed fucked, though there's still a some unused city around to expand into (but quite a bit of work to make it all neat and tidy).
Lorville already has those little refining furnace things on its outskirts, no reason they cant add a bunch more with hangar doors. Also I expect that players may tend to congregate in certain landing zones, so You would ideally want there to be a large open area to expand into. both for new hangars, but also other gameplay. Mission areas for city-based missions, which i think they have talked about. Player owned buildings or apartments, that sort of stuff.
I think that's a good idea to build a second or even a third port at the cities edge. You could expand something on the perimeter line with little trouble. I guess the question is what is the actual density of large ships being called at any one time. Our personal hangars could be stored the same way Elite Dangerous does, and move around like the elevators to stack them under space stations. Something something Lorville.
Hopefully they take to that idea with having an annex airport outside of Loreville. Though I guess I'd like to see the outskirts of Loreville to have more done for it in general
I think people are forgetting that these hangers are going to have all sorts of your stuff saved in them, wherever you put it. You cant just change the size of this space without running into issues, so if you want you can get your ship set up in your personalized hangar, store it if you can use a smaller hangar, then use a "rental" hangar to fly out from, which should be next available unless the larger ships are being queued up. It is a bummer we will never see personalized hangars on stations as they're much more enjoyable to live at. You can blow up Riker and design a whole new spaceport for all I care as its never been super great to fly into. Make it long and embed it into the side of the mountain. That would be very Microtec. Lorville.
Easy fix, just let people have multiple hangers linked together. If you when a small , medium, and large ship, you get 3 hangers all linked that you can walk between. So, if you have one of each size of ships then you get one of each size. I would also love to leave a few ships parked in my hanger for show. Just a place to park ships you don’t need a hanger exit . Loreville
An alternative approach which I feel CIG should have taken would have been to keep the current hangars in place as arrival/departure hangars, and implement personal hangars as purely "storage" areas - If you wished to make changes to ship loadouts/cargo/etc. you could elect to go to your personal hangar, and when you wished to take a ship out, return to the main spaceport and call it as you do in the current build. The storage hangars could be loaded/unloaded as required with no impact on player's ability to leave stations, and no "physical" changes to places like Loreville would be needed. It would also allow the ability to add similar "personal hangars" to other locations as well (lagrange points, jump points, etc.), and give the hangar types ("self land", "VFG", "Aeroview", "Revel & York") the ability to affect the appearance of the personal hangars.
ArcCorp could totally solve the problem of hangers shortage by having more than one spaceport.. The planet is covered in a cities but only one spaceport.. Every other planet and moon has outposts all over the surface. They don't need to have a full intractable zone, just hangers that we can possibly log out in. Im sure players would be happy to call any other area home.
I would welcome more than one landing zone on A18, but it would need to have at least SOME walkable area with a number of points of interest associated with it, or I would not want to live there.
After commenting above, I agree. Why not just have all home areas have an annex space port for player ships to land. If you need to go to the main spaceport, make it just like it is now, you, just like it is for visitors for who it is not their home base. Or, you could land your big ship at the annex and take one of your smaller ships to the main city. With a TDD terminal, hab, and ASOP terminal. There probably isnt that much of a need to go there anyway.
@@AttilaAsztalos That's fair, but that could be the perk of choosing that world. In the case of Arccorp, we get an area that only players choosing that area can visit. A nice building to look out from, the standards shops and amenities.
I think as Area 18 needs an update anyway, It is not that big of a problem. For Lorville, I like the idea of a 2 part Spaceport. They would have to integrate it with the transfer system, either through underground elevator (the easy way) or by train. Adding a train line would require quite a bit of work, so I assume connecting it with those elevator systems that phases through the ground would be the better solution for now.
'Lorville' really will be the most difficult because of the landlocking, really hope they do something like you've suggested, would be kinda cool to have a secondary airport great vid
Loreville should have a second landing area, but more fundamentally CIG should add cargo landing zones onto the planet - like an Area 11 Cargo, with a train link to Area 18) etc). Big planets should have massive landing areas - and lots of them. That also makes a ton of sense for larger ships - indeed for those who own a javelin, there literally isn't anywhere in the game for a player to spawn it.
Lorville will definitely be the toughest and biggest issue to address, being centralized- planet in the system, and space port in the city. Im in favor of space port home points but I think you would just have the same issue at certain space ports.
Lorville is a location that I try to avoid in general, but after 3.24 I'll probably try to just never have a reason to go there. Love your practical, real world suggestion of a smaller airport for smaller craft. These are planets, after all, they have plenty of room. It'll give us more reason to use smaller craft, provide specialized locations for larger craft which only makes sense, AND give reasons to use either our ground vehicles or public transport options. In general, the city designs in this game is so flabbergasting. They're going to need to remake them all, frankly, but that's a whole blog post of its own.
Easy fix, just let people have multiple hangers linked together. If you when a small , medium, and large ship, you get 3 hangers all linked that you can walk between. So, if you have one of each size of ships then you get one of each size. I would also love to leave a few ships parked in my hanger for show. Just a place to park ships you don’t need a hanger exit .
Loreville is near to my heart. I love the look of the city but wish it wasn't so cloudy and windy on the planet (or that our ships wouldn't be as affected by the wind)
While it wouldn't work for all home cities, I think places like Area 18 with the space for it should have the permanent hangers be a separate landing area altogether. Like a big complex with plenty of hangers for the locals that's separate so traffic can be less bottlenecked around the actual Spaceport itself. Maybe even have an area like some rich folks where its all luxury housing around the permanent hanger area
There are a number or reasons why i avoid Lorville but what you brought up and how it will impact things in 3.24 gives me another reason. At least I've limited myself to not buying a ship that use alaege or bigger hangar so i have something to work towards once the game goes 1.0...that way my personal hangar remains medium and i avoid the congestion of waiting a large door to open.
if all the things that are in your personal hangar are in your personal hangar, maybe we won't even need to visit the main hub except for missions. I'm just riffing, but maybe have a tunnel that you can drive your personal vehicles through. Though that might cause collision nightmares. I take that back, players will purposefully cause them. There could be another Area on ArcCorp that is the player ship annex and then you either have to take a small ship to Area 18 or maybe have a local annex of things you'd get at area 18. My hab, a TDD terminal, as well as ASOP terminal should be in personal hangar anyway. My trips to the main city shouldn't be as frequent on my home world. Maybe to buy components, but I could transfer those back to the annex from Area via the old fashioned way.
I think that with 3.24, Lorville and ArcCorp will both need a second spaceport. The existing spaceports could be for small and medium ships, and large and extra large ships could be moved out to cargo/industrial spaceports on the edge of town. I had a similar thought for NBIS, but they could just expand that along the hillside. It'd be easy enough to double its size. August Dunlow is a different beast all together. They can't have any "magic hangars" because there is no land below the spaceport. Each hangar is real and not connected to anything else. It will probably need a redesign even worse than the others.
This is one of those cases where they implemented bandaid choices that they would not have made otherwise as a response to certain players doing crap that they shouldn't have been doing - like pad ramming. Combine that with the casual digital excess that is common in video games and you get these massive fortress hangar systems. Nobody IRL would ever design anything like that, never mind approve the mind-boggling expense involved in actually building it. I doubt any human-designed space station would ever have "landing pads" or "hangars" anyway (but would instead have something like docking rings), but if they did it'd look more like Olisar or more likely the "outside" pads at Grim (as in, on an asteroid). So instead of implementing a robust and effective defense system to control the griefing they came up with this highly improbable (and still not particularly effective) hangar system. So here we are. If it were left to me to solve this quickly given the current design paradigm (speaking of embracing digital excess) I would make all of the city hangar access points a large surface elevator platform that would then drop down to a hangar where the ship would be shunted in or out via tractors (either physical tractors or beams, I suppose depending on the size of the ship). Most of us have seen large vehicles moved around airfields in this fashion. This system would be analogous to the large vertical parking garages they build these days where there are no ramps but the elevator takes you and your car to your parking cell and you drive into it. Imagine your hangar has openings at either end that are only accessible from these elevators. When you call your ship one of the elevators (whichever is free) brings your ship up from (or takes it down to) whatever dimensional rift they would store those massive things in, and the other elevator would take ships up to the surface as needed (both elevators would be able to do either thing). So you would have large hives of hangars stacked up with elevators between each row, and with freight elevators between them on the other sides, apparently. If you have enough elevators (retrofitted into the available space) then you have little or no wait time. I would also have "self-service" platforms on the surface (like those at the stations) on which ppl that aren't dealing w/ freight, etc. could land, service, and take off quickly. While ridiculous from an engineering standpoint, it's no more ridiculous than the idea of each of these hangars having its own elevator that accesses the inter-dimensional storage space which is somehow directly beneath it (alongside the freight dimension, apparently). But the real problem to my mind is that they're scrambling to retcon systems that never should have been there in the first place.
it's interesting to hear about these ripple-effect issues that few in CIG or the community seem to address. Like what happens when you need to expand player usable/interactable space and facilities due to new mechanics and features being added as the scope and vision of the project evolve over the years. This is indeed accutely felt at the Lorville and Area 18 landing zones where the current models simply can not accommodate the planned increase in player count and activity. I am interested to see how this plays out to solve this. or is the queue for hangar access just going to be another avoidable time-sink that we are all "just going to have to get used to."
I was about to say that Lorville might actually be pretty easy, but then I remembered that I haven't actually checked out any of the external gates since before Lorville 2.0 came out. Ideally they could turn one of the external gates into the annex location. The only downside is that the train ride out there was a pain in the ass. A18 I think would be easier. The entire planet is covered with city, true, but it's all essentially just terrain that would need to be revamped for another spaceport and a tram route into the player area
4:23 Great job CIG, you chased those whales by selling huge ships and now you can't land them. 7:10 I actually think you have hit the nail on the head with all the space ports. Make an annex of large doors in the ground outside of all the current space ports, including Orison, that is for player hangars, and leave the traditional space ports alone for regular traffic by players that are not home ported there.
I'm interested to see how they handle the Lorville situation, as I suspect CIG wouldn't want to add an annex, as the travel time to that area vie the usual elevator would be either far too long to offset the removed que time, or two short to make any sense, given the games aversion to quick-travel systems. Also hoping that they take the needed redesign of Riker Memorial as an incentive to work on a redesign of A18, and ArcCorp as a whole, as it's my favorite landing zone, and I'd love to see it updated to the same standard as the others, preferably without loosing the convenient access to gear, clothes, and food right outside the housing area.
I think both Area18 and Loreville will be a challenge, but neither really insurmountable. A good call though that they need to think about adding hangar capacity.
it'd be awesome if we had a underground space dug in area 18 and many hangars installed in each of the four walls of such well. sure... it would have to be a huge hole for carracks, polarises and the sht.
The station hanger thing is testing player habs because allll the issues that are going to be tested for base buidling are going to be required and then some. I wont go into detail but i can assure you this has more to do with base building than meets the eye.
Not necessarily, unless players request take-off clearance AND fail to take off. As long as the hangar doors are closed, a hangar doesn't need to be competing with other hangars by being attached to and occupying an actual door in the "real" world. A thousand players can faff around inside their individual hangars at the same time, fully oblivious to the existence of the others, as long as they don't actually try emerging out of a hangar door...
I'm guilty of it myself, but they can stay instanced. I think the moment you call for the door to be opened, you should have a limited amount of time to leave the hangar before you get impounded.
@@Rikalonius not sure about impounding, but maybe just close the hangar doors and allow others to use the hangar putting you behind a queue, maybe with a timer before atc will give you access again
We need dedicated fuel and service pads, to alleviate demand and time on full hangers. The potentials are pretty broad. We could have giant floating gas stations like cyberpunk blimps over cities, or an off shore barge, etc. Could even have these service stations charge slightly less, since they don’t have the “overhead” of operating full hangers, an all the additional infrastructure of a spaceport. Note: This message is *not* part of a guerrilla advertising campaign by the Sindrian Fuel Company. Any all all resemblance, implied or otherwise, to the interests of Phillip Andrada are entirely coincidental.
Honestly they will need to do these redesigns anyway because if we get 1000 player or more shards haveing just 50 people fly in to any of those landing ports at the same time which with 1000 players will be really comon, Would massivly overwhelm a small port like Lorville regardless of ship size. And yes please add just anex buildings/parts of the spaceport, Yes you will have to add a bit more to the tram network but thats fine.
Dallas has DFW for the largest birds and majority of flights. It's between the two cities (Dallas and Ft. Worth) and in a relatively undeveloped area; equally convenient/inconvenient to both cities and most of the metroplex. Just 1/2 mile away from me is Love Field. It's a significant hub (1300 acres), right in the middle of the bustling neighborhoods of Dallas, that handles 22% of the volume of DFW (~27 square miles) with less than 1/10th the real estate (based on March 2024 passenger statistics). Love Field also includes private FBO's and services that increase its flight traffic. Likewise, Meacham field (Meacham International Airport, 745 acres) is embedded in Ft. Worth and is the sixth busiest airport in Texas. The truth is, Stanton is underdeveloped and under-realized. When I see how overproduced and unrealistic the Pyro system is, I wish that CIG had devoted half those developers to realizing and improving Stanton, instead of making the gold-coated turd that is Pyro. It's like Stanton has become the unwanted step-child of Star Citizen.
My suggestion: Variable geometry doors at the top and front of each Large and XL hangar. SO whatever ship you request the door to open from inside of..... is the size of door your hangar gets lined up with... making ALL the hangar doors available based on ship size (As they are basically now) even if we are all in large hangars. Is it immersion breaking knowing your hangar is vast but you flew out of size one hole in the front of NBIS? Sure but no more than the fact that your so called "persistent hangar" may have you exit through Large Door A, but return and land through Large Door B an hour later...
I think there is an opportunity to create persistent hab structures with built-in hangers. A18 and loreville especially. And frankly there should be a lot more spaceports for a city planet.
Habs are coming with building interiors v2. Haven't heard much about the progress on that since they last showcased the whitebox designs when the Montreal Studio was working on them. But they can't come soon enough.
@@Billy-bc8pk for sure, just hoping hangers get included so there is an advantage to owning a hab as opposed to having to make the same trek to the airport every time to load in at home base.
@@dave2137 Definitely looks like some habs at Lorville 2.0 may come with hangars, but I guess we'll find out when they finally unveil how they will work.
@@I.Am.Nobody nothing wrong with a healthy break
City planning immersion feels like the least of their problems, but Lorville will be the toughest. Maybe that's ok and we don't need equal ease at every port. Builds flavor (tm)
you know, it seems to me like one way to deal with "Not enough hangers" ......add actual Fuel Pads and Landing Areas,where we can just land, refuel/rearm, Hop out and run inside, etc. Like the Fuel Pads on space stations allow a quick run in/out without having to use hangers. Adding landing pads would immediately thin out a chunk of hanger usage
edit: Area 18 and Lorville Both could add fuel pads as well, on top of pre-existing building, some ALREADY have pads and are used as courier dropoff points, just make them Functional
They could/should do this for most errand running. A separate port for cargo + tdd kiosks in the hangars.
The potentials are pretty broad. We could have giant floating gas stations like cyberpunk blimps over cities, or an off shore barge, etc.
Could even have these service stations charge slightly less, since they don’t have the “overhead” of operating full hangers, an all the additional infrastructure of a spaceport.
Note: This message is *not* part of a guerrilla advertising campaign by the Sindrian Fuel Company. Any all all resemblance, implied or otherwise, to the interests of Phillip Andrada are entirely coincidental.
I agree with Loreville adding Large and X-Large on the outskirts. In fact, I would put the cargo terminal out there as well.
Lorville with an annex is very sound.
Having two personal hangars might be an option. Biggest you have. And a mid range you have.
Keep up the great work
luckily Loreville has a ton of dummy hangar doors that can just start being utilized. but the end-game immersive scenario will probably require multiple deep wells that ships descend into to reach their physicalized hangars
Lorville is a huge bottleneck, it’s time for CIG to just allow us to set “home” in space stations.
Not necessarily, they have lots of landing pads and some additional hangars throughout Lorville in preparation for building interiors v2. People who get up their rep with HUrston Dynamics might be able to make use of those as an alternative, whereas people without rep will have to use the standard hangars. I'm curious how this will dissipate the bottleneck?
Sure, but some of us actually like living in the cities, so they still have to solve the issues.
What’s in lorville? Why is it a bottleneck?
Or...pick a better starting city. 🙃
Currently only a couple of the external hangars doors are used at stations and planets, once they start using them all it won’t be a problem. They did say that they do want people to pick whichever place you want as a home base, they just want to trial a couple of planets first
I love your analysis and the idea of a remote location for different sized hangars in Loreville. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the info.
The thing that confuses me the most about this is that i thought the whole point of the way CIG are doing server meshing was to move away from the traditional instancing/layering of the game world that was common in other online games and with this update they are going the opposite direction,
If i had to choose between persistent medical gowns, drink bottles and persistent hangars i would want the hangars to be persistent...oh well.
Yes it is but server meshing is not perfected yet and there are hundreds of those home hangars for one spaceport besides the public ones. Thats why they want to do those apartment complexes that you can have a home and also a Hangar door. Then for those on their home planet can choose where their Persistent Hangar and Home will be.
Making the hangars persistent would be an enormous waste of space, every LZ would be littered with hundreds of unusable hangars - a 800 player Stanton shard would have at least two hundred unusable player-owned hangars per LZ, plus needing guest hangars on top of that, all of this before accounting for different players needing different hangar sizes. There needs to be more doors for sure, but pocket dimensions are a requirement if we don't want cities to look like hundred mile wide Walmart parking lots.
@@corombb I mean if the floor of the hangar is an elevator for ships, why not have our floor be also stored underground somewhere. Like those cool elevators for cars
One way for them to reduce the issue overall (and for Lorville in particular), would be to allow the player to choose what size hangar they want to use before taking off. This sometimes works now whilst using the public ASOP; other times I need to launch my 125a from my extra large hangar which I don't even like as it's way too large and it puts my tiny ship in the queue with players that want to launch their Reclaimer.
The hangar is the bottle neck so another way to optimise is to reduce the use of it and to put the freight elevators on the landing pads and around the cargo stations similar to what was done around the DCs. But you will still need 15 - 20 per location?
On a near empty server we hit the queue already - in Live it will be much worse and I don't want to start to imagine of how it will look with 400 - 800 players when server meshing becomes active (although we experienced that in the previous meshing test where dozens off people couldn't spawn for minutes because there was no hub available).
Another thing that has become clear is that freight elevators will severely limit the locations; two elevators are not enough for areas and people will struggle to do any hauling at busy locations. On the other hand this will allow for evolving game play. For example I was able to 'borrow' cargo from someone that was not in the party while he was loading at Picker's Field.
Solid video and insight. Testing features, find bugs/hiccups/bottlenecks, give clear and concise feedback.
Definitely hoping for more landing zones for per city and planet
The realism we all didn't want. 😅 It's normal for pilots to take off and land on ATCs schedule. Wait until those Lorville workers finally go on strike and get Emperialized, the queues will be days long and it'll be all over Spectrum!
Seems like they could make us wait to take off rather than wait to enter our hangar. It would be slightly better
Maybe I was unclear but the door you are waiting on is the door to take off or land
@@RaysGuide ahhh, my bad
The idea of the larger port in lorville be in the outskirts is very good. It could even be a completely separated one, not just an annex. Cargo players would need to factor a longer subway ride. But it could even have its own logistic centre. Could get quite cool. Same could be done for A18 as no one really remembers the cityscape if you go a bit further away.
I was wondering about this question... and now I realize how much I really just wanna live only at a lagrange point.
Another solution albeit long term is just getting people out of the main landing zones and removing them as being bottlenecks. With base building that could help alleviate a lot of the pressure on spaceport landing pads
Yup, basebuilding and the additional personal habs (whenever they come online) will be a huge boon for spreading out the playerbase and alleviating some of the strain on the main landing zones.
I'd like to see space stations turned into more serious landing areas, as well. Store selections are generally worse than city locations (with outliers like HUR-L5 hoarding the Atlas QT drive), as well as extremely minimal trading opportunities.
Cargo missions may help spread this out, but as long as all major trading gets sent to the TDDs then there's going to be a bottleneck.
@@Accipiter1138 Major trading will be spread between the TDDS and the new distro centres.
yeah, I have, for years, wondered how they were going to deal with Hangars at Loreville. Not even considering Player hangers, just the limited number of Public hangars that only need to be used for about 5 minutes as a player ship arrives or departs, (they can magic away the ship to an "instance" once the players leave the hangar, but for the appearance it needs to "be there" for the approach, landing, and until the players get into the elevator.)
I've watched a number of the developer shows and just have to figure they have a plan to deal with Lorville and Area 18 landing zones. They aren't dumb and they have far more information than we are privy to. I'm going to trust them on this one :)
Love your videos an insight as always!
Area 18 and Lorville will both pose an issue requiring redesign, I could see them doing it with changing to a central tower with small and medium pads inside and allowing for more large and XL pads in the area surrounding. The traffic pattern would get a bit interesting as lager ships are coming into land vertically and the small and medium ships coming in for a more horizontal landing.
I think that’s best. Spreading out the large-ship, vertical hangars is probably going to prevent accidents as you can’t look straight down as easily and have less awareness of what’s below or around you.
Perfect opportunity for Spaceport redesigns. I'd love for Riker Memorial to go from the flat eye sore it is into a super tower.
It would make sense that a planet sized factory would need a space port that could accommodate large numbers of bulk haulers. This could be accomplished by having antigravity/tractor assisted docking ports (similar in design to what the space stations have for capital ships) on the higher levels.
And building it vertically means they could make it a landmark to navigate by.
Oh, now that's a fun idea. I was thinking it would be easy to just copy/paste another Riker Memorial somewhere else, but a giant tower would be novel as well as suited for Arccorp's theme.
Meanwhile Hurston wouldn't allow anyone to build above their monolith so would relegate everyone to an annex on the outskirts.
Nice and interesting analysis! I hope that hangar-availability wont be a bottleneck indeed!
Solid video as always Ray! I like the idea of expanding larger landing bays in Lorville. Nothing worse than having to wait for a door to open. Time is money CIG. Plus, it kinda forces you out of the game when you have a mandatory coffee break.
Lorville has a bunch of landing pad like structures around the spaceport in the cargo handling grebling that could likely be converted to full on hangars without having to do a major redesign of the spaceport. Area 18 isn't going to be much easier than Lorville, but there is some room for the spaceport to grow without having to get into the area of building tiles around it.
I like the idea of moving the spaceport to the outskirts of Lorville.
An auxiliary field for large ships at Lorville makes a lot of sense.
I think your right they definitely will have a problem with the hangers. I always injoy your perspective on things. Keep ip the good work
I too was surprised that the spaceport was bit expanded when Loreville got it's update. hopefully they'll figure it out soon and take care of Area 18 while they are at it.
Great info, thanks! Lorville could have a new space port on the outskirts for large and/or extra large ships and keep the inner city for small/medium. Always creative options for the devs and someone else noted too that base building should help reduce demand at the planet ports...sounded reasonable to me.
Great video as always! Lorville hangars will be interesting.
I think it would create a unique and interesting feature to have a second spaceport at Lorville, they could also include a City distribution centre.
A second spaceport on the outskirts of Lorville could also help with the ease of locating the landing zone. Though they have been making improvements to this throughout Stanton.
The waiting time isn't a bug, it's a feature... at least I get the feeling it is, given how this entire patch seems to add so many unnecessary time sinks, it seems perfectly in line.
And the reason lorville looks like it does is because the designers didn't get any brief on needed functionality because when they did the redesign instanced hangars weren't nearly far enough along to provide detailed design requirements.
I believe it was -- remember they also designed Lorville 2.0 with building interiors in mind, and structured additional pads and landing areas in preparatin for them, and those were much further out than instanced hangars. But 3.24 is still in Evo, so we'll see how it all pans out as they continue to tweak and optimise the design.
@@Billy-bc8pk Idk it's hard for me to picture tgat the instanced hangar thing was completely planned out by that point. If it was the designers seem to have ignored it, but to me it's more plausible that they simply weren't informed.
@@justalex4214considering how many ships need redesign i think youre right
i remember when we had the huge hanger we could walk around or drive our greycats around
Just have persistent hangars persist as an entity that can be spawned from memory into persistence, brought in on a railing system underground or something and initialized where/when there is room. This way you can find more places to expand the hangars planet-side while not having a pocket universe. Similar to how the distribution center's cargo areas are designed.
Lorville could add some on top of the big building, but i like the idea of having home stations to help alleviate the problem.
I absolutely agree, and places like orison already have so many platforms with doors.
For Hurston they could build an "instanced" hangar area on the outskirts that is massive but further away Lorville by train and keep Teasa as the normal landing bays.
They should do this in all of the cities and that way for new/casual players it will be much more apparent the difference between the two by having a different location for instanced hangars. Similar to how large airports will have a terminal for the normal passengers and for people flying on private jets.
I feel like they need to only have the major spaceports like Area 18, Loreville and any others similar that may come along later operating like distribution centres. You land there in a rental hangar to load and offload or to visit the shopping. Home hangars could be located in other areas around the planet, perhaps with travel links like the trains. roads and some sub orbital shuttle service. It could work in Orison too, but with condos built on other platforms. I know they went with the one landing area for ease of development, but we are talking future content here.
We really need to have those separate cargo areas be places you can land directly at for cargo services since that makes much more sense in the game world. It would improve interactions with not just space stations, but also with getting in and out of Loreville and Area 18 when you're not trying to do anything but cargo. Large trucks in the real world don't go into the middle of cities, they head to warehouses on the outskirts instead.
Thanks.!! I think that they will create extra spots for landing outside the main spaceport (Loville in particular.)
CIG's designers and artists were using inspiration from commercial passenger airports and sea container ports as inspiration for what the future of space travel would look like ... but the game is built on player owned ships, not corporate ones. SC's home locations where we have our hangars need to be more like a large general aviation airfield (with rows upon rows of aircraft hangars), or a marina (with rows and rows of berths for boats).
The good news is this is easy to generate with the kind of procedural tools CIG already have. Make a giant shed that looks like the outside of a hangar, and make a grid pattern of them all over the landscape. All that's needed is a large convenient space for them to exist, and a way to get to them on foot. CIGs hangars are built to support both top and front doors -- so you could lay them out horizontally with roof doors, or stacked vertically with side doors.
Teasa spaceport at Lorville is particularly constrained -- but even the other locations aren't as expandable as you'll really need for this, particularly when server meshing is in use and shards support thousands of concurrent players.
I think we're going to need to make a distinction between the kind of central spaceport where you load/unload cargo and refuel/rearm before departing again, and a more remote kind of spaceport where player hangars are, where you park your ships and store your stuff. CIG are going to need to make these locations.
I agree adding a new spaceport to Lorville would be a solution. Although since I have a terrible time trying to find the spaceport that's there now at night, adding a second would be even more confusing. Luckily, I have no intention to use Lorville as my home planet. It's dirty.
For Lorville that makes sense to just add an annex for large and extra large hangars. With A18, hard to say because they have said they are going to re-do ArcCorp. Or maybe make a A17 for the larger hangars.
Beyond the Loreville issue, there are going to be so many minor gameplay tweaks to change with for 3.24 cargo - it's going to be pretty rough after 3.24 drops, but I'm still excited for the overall change
Lorville will need a major redesign. I was thinking they could use the Hurston tower for the spaceport or rebuild something like it in the spaceport that vertically stacks hangars. That would add a lot of doors for small hangars.
I was given a wait time of 1000 seconds last night and I was 1st in queue. That's over 16 freakin minutes!!! I seriously hope this is just another placeholder system and they are working on something better and much, much faster.
I think what they may need to consider is a private space port vs public space port system. Alter Loreville and A18 so that they can shunt another port in, add a stop on the line for it, and have players go to/land at the private one if that is your home, then use the public one if not.
I think the hangar situation at Loreville was an unintended oversight. Now that they know what they need, they can modify the spaceport to add a few and move the city design to accommodate.
The only problem with the Lorville annex route is new players (and old vets) will have little guidance as to where to approach to get a hangar when flying in. Ideally CIG convert the central area to a local cargo hub for outdoor cargo management of, say an Ironclad or two, and move all hangars out to the periphery.
The easiest solution for non-personal hangars would be to just despawn everything once the ship is stored and the player leaves their hangar and just provide an appropriately sized hangar for whatever ship is called up from the LZ's terminal.
That way, a player still has an option to pick their largest hangar by summoning the big ship (then storing it from inside the hangar to summon a smaller ship whatever that may be needed for), but not take up an XL hangar with a Pisces.
Lorville is indeed fucked, though there's still a some unused city around to expand into (but quite a bit of work to make it all neat and tidy).
Excellent suggestion to solve the potential problems/bottleneck, particularly at Lorville.
Lorville already has those little refining furnace things on its outskirts, no reason they cant add a bunch more with hangar doors. Also I expect that players may tend to congregate in certain landing zones, so You would ideally want there to be a large open area to expand into. both for new hangars, but also other gameplay. Mission areas for city-based missions, which i think they have talked about. Player owned buildings or apartments, that sort of stuff.
I think that's a good idea to build a second or even a third port at the cities edge. You could expand something on the perimeter line with little trouble. I guess the question is what is the actual density of large ships being called at any one time. Our personal hangars could be stored the same way Elite Dangerous does, and move around like the elevators to stack them under space stations. Something something Lorville.
I agree that Teassa Spaceport at Loreville might be the toughest to adjust for having more large/ XL areas for folks with large/ XL ships.
Hopefully they take to that idea with having an annex airport outside of Loreville. Though I guess I'd like to see the outskirts of Loreville to have more done for it in general
I think people are forgetting that these hangers are going to have all sorts of your stuff saved in them, wherever you put it. You cant just change the size of this space without running into issues, so if you want you can get your ship set up in your personalized hangar, store it if you can use a smaller hangar, then use a "rental" hangar to fly out from, which should be next available unless the larger ships are being queued up. It is a bummer we will never see personalized hangars on stations as they're much more enjoyable to live at. You can blow up Riker and design a whole new spaceport for all I care as its never been super great to fly into. Make it long and embed it into the side of the mountain. That would be very Microtec. Lorville.
Easy fix, just let people have multiple hangers linked together. If you when a small , medium, and large ship, you get 3 hangers all linked that you can walk between. So, if you have one of each size of ships then you get one of each size.
I would also love to leave a few ships parked in my hanger for show. Just a place to park ships you don’t need a hanger exit .
Loreville
For Lorville your idea is probably the best option.
An alternative approach which I feel CIG should have taken would have been to keep the current hangars in place as arrival/departure hangars, and implement personal hangars as purely "storage" areas - If you wished to make changes to ship loadouts/cargo/etc. you could elect to go to your personal hangar, and when you wished to take a ship out, return to the main spaceport and call it as you do in the current build.
The storage hangars could be loaded/unloaded as required with no impact on player's ability to leave stations, and no "physical" changes to places like Loreville would be needed. It would also allow the ability to add similar "personal hangars" to other locations as well (lagrange points, jump points, etc.), and give the hangar types ("self land", "VFG", "Aeroview", "Revel & York") the ability to affect the appearance of the personal hangars.
ArcCorp could totally solve the problem of hangers shortage by having more than one spaceport.. The planet is covered in a cities but only one spaceport.. Every other planet and moon has outposts all over the surface. They don't need to have a full intractable zone, just hangers that we can possibly log out in. Im sure players would be happy to call any other area home.
I would welcome more than one landing zone on A18, but it would need to have at least SOME walkable area with a number of points of interest associated with it, or I would not want to live there.
After commenting above, I agree. Why not just have all home areas have an annex space port for player ships to land. If you need to go to the main spaceport, make it just like it is now, you, just like it is for visitors for who it is not their home base. Or, you could land your big ship at the annex and take one of your smaller ships to the main city. With a TDD terminal, hab, and ASOP terminal. There probably isnt that much of a need to go there anyway.
@@AttilaAsztalos That's fair, but that could be the perk of choosing that world. In the case of Arccorp, we get an area that only players choosing that area can visit. A nice building to look out from, the standards shops and amenities.
Lorville's my favorite landing zone, hopefully they can make it work!
Love your vids! Loreville, will be interesting to see what they do.
Wow, deep thinking here. I hope they redesign future Lorville to accommodate my future Zeus.
I think as Area 18 needs an update anyway, It is not that big of a problem. For Lorville, I like the idea of a 2 part Spaceport. They would have to integrate it with the transfer system, either through underground elevator (the easy way) or by train. Adding a train line would require quite a bit of work, so I assume connecting it with those elevator systems that phases through the ground would be the better solution for now.
'Lorville' really will be the most difficult because of the landlocking, really hope they do something like you've suggested, would be kinda cool to have a secondary airport
great vid
CIG just redid Lorville. So if they didn't design it with this in mind, it's a huge red flag.
I tend to fly rather rarely to Lorville, only for ship parts or ships - tend to sell at the other locations.
Loreville should have a second landing area, but more fundamentally CIG should add cargo landing zones onto the planet - like an Area 11 Cargo, with a train link to Area 18) etc). Big planets should have massive landing areas - and lots of them. That also makes a ton of sense for larger ships - indeed for those who own a javelin, there literally isn't anywhere in the game for a player to spawn it.
Lorville will definitely be the toughest and biggest issue to address, being centralized- planet in the system, and space port in the city. Im in favor of space port home points but I think you would just have the same issue at certain space ports.
Your right. I was considering switching to Area 18 (Area18) or Lorville but am reconsidering now.
Lorville is a location that I try to avoid in general, but after 3.24 I'll probably try to just never have a reason to go there. Love your practical, real world suggestion of a smaller airport for smaller craft. These are planets, after all, they have plenty of room. It'll give us more reason to use smaller craft, provide specialized locations for larger craft which only makes sense, AND give reasons to use either our ground vehicles or public transport options.
In general, the city designs in this game is so flabbergasting. They're going to need to remake them all, frankly, but that's a whole blog post of its own.
Preach!
Easy fix, just let people have multiple hangers linked together. If you when a small , medium, and large ship, you get 3 hangers all linked that you can walk between. So, if you have one of each size of ships then you get one of each size.
I would also love to leave a few ships parked in my hanger for show. Just a place to park ships you don’t need a hanger exit .
Loreville is near to my heart. I love the look of the city but wish it wasn't so cloudy and windy on the planet (or that our ships wouldn't be as affected by the wind)
I must say, at the moment i avoid Lorville.
The last 3 times i tried to land there i just magically explored before getting in the hangar
While it wouldn't work for all home cities, I think places like Area 18 with the space for it should have the permanent hangers be a separate landing area altogether. Like a big complex with plenty of hangers for the locals that's separate so traffic can be less bottlenecked around the actual Spaceport itself. Maybe even have an area like some rich folks where its all luxury housing around the permanent hanger area
There are a number or reasons why i avoid Lorville but what you brought up and how it will impact things in 3.24 gives me another reason. At least I've limited myself to not buying a ship that use alaege or bigger hangar so i have something to work towards once the game goes 1.0...that way my personal hangar remains medium and i avoid the congestion of waiting a large door to open.
You are right Lorville will definitely require some kind of annex, hope the train ride isn't too long
if all the things that are in your personal hangar are in your personal hangar, maybe we won't even need to visit the main hub except for missions. I'm just riffing, but maybe have a tunnel that you can drive your personal vehicles through. Though that might cause collision nightmares. I take that back, players will purposefully cause them. There could be another Area on ArcCorp that is the player ship annex and then you either have to take a small ship to Area 18 or maybe have a local annex of things you'd get at area 18. My hab, a TDD terminal, as well as ASOP terminal should be in personal hangar anyway. My trips to the main city shouldn't be as frequent on my home world. Maybe to buy components, but I could transfer those back to the annex from Area via the old fashioned way.
I think that with 3.24, Lorville and ArcCorp will both need a second spaceport. The existing spaceports could be for small and medium ships, and large and extra large ships could be moved out to cargo/industrial spaceports on the edge of town. I had a similar thought for NBIS, but they could just expand that along the hillside. It'd be easy enough to double its size. August Dunlow is a different beast all together. They can't have any "magic hangars" because there is no land below the spaceport. Each hangar is real and not connected to anything else. It will probably need a redesign even worse than the others.
This is one of those cases where they implemented bandaid choices that they would not have made otherwise as a response to certain players doing crap that they shouldn't have been doing - like pad ramming. Combine that with the casual digital excess that is common in video games and you get these massive fortress hangar systems.
Nobody IRL would ever design anything like that, never mind approve the mind-boggling expense involved in actually building it. I doubt any human-designed space station would ever have "landing pads" or "hangars" anyway (but would instead have something like docking rings), but if they did it'd look more like Olisar or more likely the "outside" pads at Grim (as in, on an asteroid).
So instead of implementing a robust and effective defense system to control the griefing they came up with this highly improbable (and still not particularly effective) hangar system.
So here we are.
If it were left to me to solve this quickly given the current design paradigm (speaking of embracing digital excess) I would make all of the city hangar access points a large surface elevator platform that would then drop down to a hangar where the ship would be shunted in or out via tractors (either physical tractors or beams, I suppose depending on the size of the ship). Most of us have seen large vehicles moved around airfields in this fashion.
This system would be analogous to the large vertical parking garages they build these days where there are no ramps but the elevator takes you and your car to your parking cell and you drive into it.
Imagine your hangar has openings at either end that are only accessible from these elevators. When you call your ship one of the elevators (whichever is free) brings your ship up from (or takes it down to) whatever dimensional rift they would store those massive things in, and the other elevator would take ships up to the surface as needed (both elevators would be able to do either thing).
So you would have large hives of hangars stacked up with elevators between each row, and with freight elevators between them on the other sides, apparently. If you have enough elevators (retrofitted into the available space) then you have little or no wait time.
I would also have "self-service" platforms on the surface (like those at the stations) on which ppl that aren't dealing w/ freight, etc. could land, service, and take off quickly.
While ridiculous from an engineering standpoint, it's no more ridiculous than the idea of each of these hangars having its own elevator that accesses the inter-dimensional storage space which is somehow directly beneath it (alongside the freight dimension, apparently).
But the real problem to my mind is that they're scrambling to retcon systems that never should have been there in the first place.
Area 18 and Lorevelle are densley packed urban areas that offer little open real estate.
That is just one of the reasons I don't use Lorville that much. Tessa Spaceport is easy to find but does have a small designed barrier for landings.
Good point about Teasa Spaceport (Lorville). I wonder what they're going to do to solve that one.
When I take off from Lorevil with my new Zeus there will be no turning back!
Nice naming ;-D
I wonder if Lor evil has a meaning like: lore bad?
it's interesting to hear about these ripple-effect issues that few in CIG or the community seem to address. Like what happens when you need to expand player usable/interactable space and facilities due to new mechanics and features being added as the scope and vision of the project evolve over the years. This is indeed accutely felt at the Lorville and Area 18 landing zones where the current models simply can not accommodate the planned increase in player count and activity. I am interested to see how this plays out to solve this. or is the queue for hangar access just going to be another avoidable time-sink that we are all "just going to have to get used to."
I was about to say that Lorville might actually be pretty easy, but then I remembered that I haven't actually checked out any of the external gates since before Lorville 2.0 came out. Ideally they could turn one of the external gates into the annex location. The only downside is that the train ride out there was a pain in the ass.
A18 I think would be easier. The entire planet is covered with city, true, but it's all essentially just terrain that would need to be revamped for another spaceport and a tram route into the player area
4:23 Great job CIG, you chased those whales by selling huge ships and now you can't land them. 7:10 I actually think you have hit the nail on the head with all the space ports. Make an annex of large doors in the ground outside of all the current space ports, including Orison, that is for player hangars, and leave the traditional space ports alone for regular traffic by players that are not home ported there.
I'm interested to see how they handle the Lorville situation, as I suspect CIG wouldn't want to add an annex, as the travel time to that area vie the usual elevator would be either far too long to offset the removed que time, or two short to make any sense, given the games aversion to quick-travel systems. Also hoping that they take the needed redesign of Riker Memorial as an incentive to work on a redesign of A18, and ArcCorp as a whole, as it's my favorite landing zone, and I'd love to see it updated to the same standard as the others, preferably without loosing the convenient access to gear, clothes, and food right outside the housing area.
The worst part about the Lorville situation is that it perfectly located (within the system) for easy access to every other planet.
Thanks for the information. It would be nice if they redesigned Lorville, but i wont hold my breath.
I think both Area18 and Loreville will be a challenge, but neither really insurmountable. A good call though that they need to think about adding hangar capacity.
Hadn't thought of the bottleneck situation but yes, we will need a fix. Luckily I never really do much at Lorville
To fix that issue CIG should put hangars out in the city so you can have more instanced locations. The city exists lets use it
Loreville does present such a hard challenge
it'd be awesome if we had a underground space dug in area 18 and many hangars installed in each of the four walls of such well. sure... it would have to be a huge hole for carracks, polarises and the sht.
The station hanger thing is testing player habs
because allll the issues that are going to be tested for base buidling are going to be required and then some.
I wont go into detail but i can assure you this has more to do with base building than meets the eye.
Seen a traffic jam issue coming. Wasn't quite sure what the details would be, and how it looks.
I have faith they will figure something out.
nice catch, you are right. If players hang out in a hangar and never take off it will block the hangar for others.
Not necessarily, unless players request take-off clearance AND fail to take off. As long as the hangar doors are closed, a hangar doesn't need to be competing with other hangars by being attached to and occupying an actual door in the "real" world. A thousand players can faff around inside their individual hangars at the same time, fully oblivious to the existence of the others, as long as they don't actually try emerging out of a hangar door...
I'm guilty of it myself, but they can stay instanced. I think the moment you call for the door to be opened, you should have a limited amount of time to leave the hangar before you get impounded.
@@Rikalonius not sure about impounding, but maybe just close the hangar doors and allow others to use the hangar putting you behind a queue, maybe with a timer before atc will give you access again
We need dedicated fuel and service pads, to alleviate demand and time on full hangers.
The potentials are pretty broad. We could have giant floating gas stations like cyberpunk blimps over cities, or an off shore barge, etc.
Could even have these service stations charge slightly less, since they don’t have the “overhead” of operating full hangers, an all the additional infrastructure of a spaceport.
Note: This message is *not* part of a guerrilla advertising campaign by the Sindrian Fuel Company. Any all all resemblance, implied or otherwise, to the interests of Phillip Andrada are entirely coincidental.
Honestly they will need to do these redesigns anyway because if we get 1000 player or more shards haveing just 50 people fly in to any of those landing ports at the same time which with 1000 players will be really comon, Would massivly overwhelm a small port like Lorville regardless of ship size. And yes please add just anex buildings/parts of the spaceport, Yes you will have to add a bit more to the tram network but thats fine.
There’s tons of open area for the largest hangars in Lorville. I just wonder if they’ll do it?
Dallas has DFW for the largest birds and majority of flights. It's between the two cities (Dallas and Ft. Worth) and in a relatively undeveloped area; equally convenient/inconvenient to both cities and most of the metroplex. Just 1/2 mile away from me is Love Field. It's a significant hub (1300 acres), right in the middle of the bustling neighborhoods of Dallas, that handles 22% of the volume of DFW (~27 square miles) with less than 1/10th the real estate (based on March 2024 passenger statistics). Love Field also includes private FBO's and services that increase its flight traffic. Likewise, Meacham field (Meacham International Airport, 745 acres) is embedded in Ft. Worth and is the sixth busiest airport in Texas.
The truth is, Stanton is underdeveloped and under-realized. When I see how overproduced and unrealistic the Pyro system is, I wish that CIG had devoted half those developers to realizing and improving Stanton, instead of making the gold-coated turd that is Pyro. It's like Stanton has become the unwanted step-child of Star Citizen.
My suggestion: Variable geometry doors at the top and front of each Large and XL hangar. SO whatever ship you request the door to open from inside of..... is the size of door your hangar gets lined up with... making ALL the hangar doors available based on ship size (As they are basically now) even if we are all in large hangars. Is it immersion breaking knowing your hangar is vast but you flew out of size one hole in the front of NBIS? Sure but no more than the fact that your so called "persistent hangar" may have you exit through Large Door A, but return and land through Large Door B an hour later...
The base design of ALL Landing zones are STILL the "freelancer 2.0" loading screen idea they had. They never moved away from this.