Do-nut Let The Guys At Donut Media Near A Subaru! What Went Wrong & Why Subarus Aren't That Bad!
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
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I am proud to say I have owned my STi since October ‘06 and have properly (respectably) beat the crap out of it since day one, and to this day it is still running the stock block and stock turbo at 135k being protuned at 300whp since 40k
My 2002 WRX with 150,000 miles is still going in the Appalachian Mountains, and you know I enjoy driving it on those curvy mountain backroads!
🤣👍
@@tyree9055 ha my saab 9-3 has 205k miles and everything is original. Just do it respectfully and change your oil. People a dumb these days and cars die too young these days. I love Subaru and it will definitely be my next vehicle. It will be my offroader.
I got a 2004 WRX that's been running a stage 2 OTS Cobb tune for over 10 years
@@m.m.aautos6608 u should get a protune eventually😅
‘02 Bugeye at 185k miles and pro tuned to 300whp on pump gas (93) still runs great lol. We all just take good care of our cars!
I think Donut illustrated a good lesson, be knowledgeable about the platform you're getting into. If you just buy a car and start randomly modifying it for power, or try to thrash it, there's a good chance it will cause issues. Most cars CAN be reliable if you maintain them properly, as much as the community loves to shit on BMW's, Subarus, VW's, a lot of it is poor maintenance and planning.
They did the same exact thing with several Nissans a civic and a miata never had problems. Just saying
@@xaphan8581Isn't their civic a piece of shit too?
@@JABelms I don't watch Donut Media, but quite a lot of people do Honda K24 swaps, rev them to 8000rpm (even though the maximum safe rpm is 7500rpm) and add boost to 400-450hp *and* yet it still seems to be a while before the engines break, lol!
My 03 VW gti was stage 2 ko4 with 150k with every bolt on possible and I floored it every day at every red light and it lasted me for 4 years even after I crashed it with no issues other than me doing water pump timing belt for peace of mind. My sisters bf had a newer 2014 wrx and modded it and his was knocking in a couple months after he modded it and he sold it. His was slightly faster than the gti I had but obviously wrx are not reliable bc he’s a mechanic and I hardly even changed oil and my gti was a tank
@@xaphan8581 The difference is that the Subaru has a boxer engine. They were always designed for a specific use case and either should remain stock, or you have to change quite a bit. I mean, the engines that are reliable from VW are basically R36, R32 engines, which were small iron-cast V6 engines, originally designed to be Diesel engines with far thicker engine walls. Honda/Toyota basically remained with iron-cast engines until the last few years when they changed to aluminum. Subarus are reliable too, if you buy the right engines. The Levorg petrol boxers that had a timing chain instead of a belt literally lasted, with the correct oil change for the CVT and engine, for 200,000 miles without any issues. Also, I've never heard a complaint from Legacy or Outback users, most likely because they do not beat sh*t out of the car.
"They took cars with notorious oil issues" sounds like a subaru issue then.
When racing* Like he mentioned already its fine for daily driving, which is what the wrx is made for its not a STI.
"Aren´t that bad", proceeds to say "change these parts or they get fucked"... other platforms dont need all that tinkering just for running and tolerating stress as they should.
“Subaru’s are great cars. You just have to rebuild the entire oil system if you want to join your friends for a spirited drive in the blue ridge mountains.”
The audacity to say that it's your fault for a part failing because you don't know about it being a problem is crazy. You'd expect that the car would be fine like the others you've driven before right? How is that Donut's fault?
@@cannedsand1878 it’s mind blowing that you can’t take corners too fast in a rally inspired platform lol
@@Boostedm3nace"inspired" key right there. I do agree though. Build a rally car for the masses but leave it plenty of ways to fail when driving in an enthusiastic manner? Sounds like cutting corners for profit.
I’ve been working on vehicles for years mail cars and other customers cars …the oiling system ..junk unless u are a guy who loves to constantly work on his car lol
You can destroy any car if you try hard enough.
They didn’t even try to, it was strait negligence.
Or it'll fail if you don't try hard enough to do it right
You can destroy any car if you are ignorant enough too.
I tried to destroy my old da integra and it made it past me and onto a new owner lol
@@RipstickMaster1998 lol you didn't try hard enough
Donut media proves you can not fix stupid.
My understanding is that the WRX was maximizing its stock parts already, while the STi was “over engineered” and could handle the performance adders. Which is why I wondered why they went for the model that was already maxed in it’s stock form, without complimentary mods.
@@jamesmaddison4546 The WRX 5-speed (indeed the GC8 era STi 5-speed) is already at the max. isn't it? The gears are physically very narrow. Hence why it is recommended to fit an aftermarket gearset, like the straight cut gears my GC8 had, or fit the 6-speed from the GDB-onwards STi.
My guess would be since every one modded or destroyed they’re sti’s the wax was the best option especially price wise. Your plotting to spend a fuck ton to get a unmolested sti. But that doesn’t really matter because the word is still hot garbage
Only the transmission. Not much different with the STI in terms of internals. I think they run a different crank and different injectors. But still, both need some things. Cylinder 4 cooling mod baffled pan oil pickup air oil separator etc etc etc
as a subaru owner, i also have to admit something. They did the exact same thing with a nissan and they had no problems.
The 350z? Those blew up too. Thats why they LS swapped them.
after they put after market turbo's@@nfsfanAndrew
@@lastfrog5941exactly
@@lastfrog5941they also put aftermarket turbos on the subarus.
@@nfsfanAndrewtook em a lot longer and those where stock old engines. I'm fairly certain they had both rebuilt and built Subaru engines that blew up.
seems like adding an oil pressure gauge is a good idea for racer-bros.
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yeah, I used to watch that channel back in the day, but they've gone full sh!thead since then it seems. I guess they've been smoking a lot of it since it went legal, and it killed their last brain cell. Proud stupidity. They can't drive for sh't either.
They did eventually add guages, after grenading a couple motors... lol
What gauges do they have stock?
@@matthewklein9225 They have an oil pressure switch that throws the pressure light at about 7psi. Ideally the light should come on around 15psi minimum
I'm actually glad you posted this video. You're forgetting that there are another group of us out here that aren't for, or against Subaru, but are just trying to get the truth about these machines. Good content 👍
I didn't even know about the oil pan issue so I learned something new, plus learned there are higher quality aftermarket options.
Although I agree that knowledge of the vehicle and how to upgrade it is important, the other vehicles they had on HiLow also had what you called "street" parts and they didn't have those dramatic issues. Also what can you expect would happen on older vehicles with unknown maintenance history.
I agree, it’s like he’s saying the wrx has bad parts and shame on Donut for not knowing about all of them. More like it should be shame on Subaru for not making quality parts in the first place. Also he says certain parts are not meant to be raced on. Is the wrx not marketed as a sports car? I’d think a car marketed as such should be able to be taken to the track in stock form. Long story short, I don’t think the guys at Donut should get as much flak as this guy is giving them
Especially the Tacoma, that thing was built like a tank, stock engine and stock transmission even over a thousand pounds of weight on hi-car with how much accessories they put on it lol.
Idk man the drift zs blew up too and with a brand new chevy crate motor
@@awong520 Exactly bro. Subaru owners will do everything but admit that EJ cars are Junk
Yeah. Some companies overbuild. Subaru doesn't. That's why they're such good cars for "anyone" who doesn't mod their cars much.
I’m a tractor/equipment/light/heavy duty truck mechanic and I’m heavily involved in diesels as I’ve loved building diesel pickups since I was young. I’ve never seen the point in hating on brands except just jokingly. Every brand has goods and bads. Every mechanic has preferences me personally I hate working on GM products and I pick and talk my trash but they make their vehicles for the people who like them and it obviously works because they all sell
ford guy right?
Ya but maybe ppl buy them cause most of them are cheap and convenient as they are domestic cars and parts are available pretty much at every local part store. With regards however to GM having good cars that's a HELL NO!
@@VWMANCA gm is better than Ford and any mechanic will tell you that, Ford isn't cheap like that neither
@Michael Rearick from my experience working on vehicles fords are typically solid chevy/gmc aren't terrible usually the duramax are a pain though and well dodge are ok if the body holds together and you can keep front end parts in them
Im a small time mechanic and i Find chevys are less of headache than a ford but i find fords drive and perform better in my experience. Owning Hyundais and volvos I hate imports because they are very sensitive and are stupid annoying to work on
Skipping the break-in period told me everything I needed to know. Lol. I think people confuse "reliability" for "ability to withstand abuse".
It's pretty much like "my kid was just born 3 months ago, why isn't he able to run a 10k?!"
I usually hear people speak about Hondas being the cars that handle abuse. "That old Honda may be beat up, and it might not sound so nice, but it'll take it like a champ and at least run."
20 minutes @ 2,000-3,000 rpm is all you need to break in cams.
Everything Mr. Subaru explains confirms that Subarus are very sensitive.
AMS will tell you the same.
What break in period? I spent 10 years as a dynamics development engineer for an OE. I probably took 40 cars, brand new from the plant with 1-5 miles, and put 15k on them, with no oil change, and basically at WOT at a handling pad for all those miles. Never once had an engine failure. You know how the cars show up at the dealer with 10-15 miles? Thats cause the car goes on a rolls dyno on the line and they do WOT pulls with less than 60 seconds on the engine to check everything before it even makes it off the line.
@Bad Investment Builds there are many rebuilt engines that require a break-in period. There are many factory engines that suggest a break-in period. There are many variables that may lead to an engine requiring or not requiring one. And, in this case, Donut Media media mentioned one being suggested for this particular build. I would listen to the builder/manufacturer first.
I'm pretty sure they mentioned in the last or pre-last video of the series that they 'obviously changed their oil pan/system in the beginning' because like a gazillion people wrote that in the comments in the first video when the first engine broke down, maybe check that video as well for more details on that
Mans has ZERO details. It like he played them in the background and didn’t pay attention at all.
I think donut did a great job showing what happens when you approach a niche vehicle without tons of niche knowledge. Kind of like how a lot of people blow up rotaries or even import GTR owners. Those cars aren’t simple and they aren’t built to throw tons of hp out of the box consequence free. You really gotta truly love those cars and explore every aspect of what could go wrong and accept the challenge before buying them.
or completely without a knowledge 🤣
@@morgan_1899_ they have built more cars than you have owned
@@dietznutz1 so why are they still shit at building cars?
@@dietznutz1 I don't care how many cars they have built, everyone has access to Google. Anyone can look up what are common issues with any car, and get an answer in like 20 minutes max (if you want to dive into forums). They're more just generic influencers then actual car guys at this point imho
@@istvanlorinczi2817 not every niche answer is on google and if you don’t already know there’s a lot of wrong info on the internet even common beliefs everyone repeats that are wrong. I’ve built several cars and a lot of it comes down to experience and trial and error and seeing for yourself how things work.
I've seen many ej engines spin bearings on road courses. Always though it was a poor oil supply issue. Thank you for clarifying the causes and fixes for the failure points.
Pretty sure this is how my outback died. It is 2014, was going up a hill at about 90 mph, fairly steep incline, spun a bearing within 5-10 secs up the hill. Only had 94k miles on the engine. Just completely absurd this kind of thing should happen to what is a very good car over something so trivial.
This is why I told my sister to never buy a used wrx from anyone. Even with a clear carfax history the engine generade after a week of owning it. People abuse these cars and don't care what happens to the next person in line. Like the man said, if you take care of them they will last you. I've owned Subarus.
1 05 Impreza RS, 3 Outbacks, 96,99, 05. 2010 Tribeca. Now a 2019 Subaru Ascent.
Oh wow do you only drive Subarus?
@@NotAdamSnider Subaru people tend to always buy Subaru. I got a Impreza and I love it so much! I’m currently in the process to bribe my mom to buy a 2023 ascent.
@@NotAdamSnider I was at a Buick GMC/ Subaru dealership in NYC. I was trained by all 3 and notice the Subarus were growing, (back in 02-04) So that is where passion grew for them. I did take a break from when I heard about the CVTs. But Mr Subaru 1387 changed my mind on them and my 2019 Ascent is a great buy. I had a 04 GMC Envoy XL with 408,000 miles on it before the tranny blew.
A guy I knew bought a legacy with a manual and the engine blew up in like 2 weeks after owning it. 🤷♂️
Too bad if your sister wants to get the best generation of WRX and has to pay a fuckton for a a Crosstrek goofball with WRX badging.
They did a follow up video to find out what went wrong with the one they totaled. Turns out, James didn't clutch in when they wreched and it turned the wheels the wrong way which forced the engine the wrong way. It grenaded a timing gear on the lower right cam shaft and caused valves to contact pistons and slightly bent one of the intake valves.
All I'm hearing is:
"Yeah if you replace half the engine it becomes somewhat reliable"
Subaru are very reliable. They're always in top 10 reliability rankings. And beat most euro brands. Maybe you're just deaf or something, or you don't understand the difference between driving a car legally on the road, like a road car, versus tracking or racing a car, thus a race car.
@@Jez4prez1 and WRX stands for… driving on normal streets at regular traffic speeds?
@@Jez4prez1 let’s face it a boxer engine is no where near reliable as a k20 Honda engine I can drive the fuck out the k20 and still be fine hence true reliability now if you need to drive things a certain way and upgrade things it’s not factory reliability
@@victorgarcia8503 k20's get upgraded to fuck, don't lie. Subaru's and Honda's, stock vs stock, on the street, are actually very similar in rankings etc. You're just biased and probably fall for youtube memes or get all you info from youtube comments sections.
@@Theunrealbrettg No one buys a WRX expecting it to be a race car, unless they have a serious brain deficit. And the same thing applies to any car / brand in similar price ranges. Just because "car journalists" flog the crap out of every test car they are given and perform irrelevant tests half the time pretending everything is a race car, even family SUV's etc, doesn't make it so. Don't fall for that crap, and don't treat your car the same way either, regardless of what brand you have. 99%+ of cars on the road, including the WRX, are literally econo cars made and sold for public driving on the roads. The thing is, Subaru also have heritage in racing, and therefore have decades of R&D for it, hence the EJ can be built into a race motor. But that is the key term there, *built*. EJ's have immense aftermarket support and development, for essentially every component in the engine you can think of. If you want to race one, you need a built motor. It's not complicated. Race teams and professional builders have no trouble knowing any of this. Yet Joe Dotards on youtube never seem to understand this. This is definitely not a Subaru only thing either. This is really just a car thing. Basic car knowledge.
Most car brands have done some form of motorsports in one capacity or another, and you aren't going to buy cars from those brands and expect them to be race cars, especially so depending on price range (for example if in the econo car segment, versus say a 'top end Porsche made and sold for $200k from factory specifically designed for track use').
The only leeway I'll give people, is that perhaps Subaru motorsport was too iconic, and one can argue it has even worked against them (attracting too many rally wannabes who have no idea about anything, compared to other brands - but you don't need to look far to see it's the same for lots of other brands also, BMW's in Europe for example, etc).
I just want to thank you for educating me on the brand! I watch a lot of your videos and had before I purchased one. I ended up getting a 23’ sport crosstrek and I’m thrilled!
Thank you for concise information on the Brand!
Hopefully having donut paint them in a less than optimal light will make the prices go down a little bit. I'd love to get my hands on one of these.
Don’t…… I’ve yet to see a person keep a subie longer than 3/4 years. Catastrophic failure after the next with their motors. Only ones that seem to last probably don’t get driven over 55 mph max and 5/10 miles in commutes daily…. And I had a coworker baby his and the motor blew up still.
@@iCEBERG711 no way lol. They wouldn't sell these cars if they weren't reliable. I doubt your friend took care of it nice.
That would be nice. Kinda miss my Hawkeye. I owned mine for 14 years before I sold it
@@Strider1Wilco „They wouldn’t sell these cars if they weren’t reliable“ doubt, look at the big brands that slowly drop in quality while the price rises because they come with a status
@@Strider1Wilco "they wouldn't sell them if they weren't reliable"
>Hyundai has entered the chat
>Kia has entered the chat
>Nissan cvt has entered the chat
Donut has done this type of thing before and not really had these problems with a 350z. The oiling issues, only the screws backing out on the oil pump concern me as far as reliability is concerned. But in all reality these engines seem to eat head gaskets on stock engines right around 100k, but that's really about all Ive actually seen. Also if that little accident starved the motor enough to ruin a main bearing, shame on Subaru, I've seen way worse.
They did it with 2 350Z’s and neither the stock VQ’s or junkyard LS or brand new crate LS blew up even after adding turbos and making way more power than the subaru with zero break in. And they used them for drifting which has them bouncing off the rev limiter most of the time. This guy has severe mental issues trying to blame donut
Typically the head gaskets are an issue on the non turbo Subarus.
Lol you’re so full of sh*t. It’s the NA engines that are known to blow gaskets, that true. The turbo engines don’t have that as a “common” thing. Yeah, modified, as in getting a bigger turbo, engines do tend to blow head gaskets.
Not sure about the oil pickup, but in the last part of the series, they did say that they did install a better baffled oil pan on both cars.
One important missing info: in the beginning of the finally video they specify that they installed baffled oil pans in both cars after the first engine died.
But still, they should have monitored the oil pressure.
I believe they reused the oil pans in all of the engines, which ideally shouldn’t be done if there was ever metal pieces in the oil system. It’s impossible to tell if you’ve cleaned all the pieces out before reinstalling
Likely reused the oil coolers and other No-no components that hold on to metal shavings, no matter how much you clean and flush them.
Good video! I was wondering if you would catch wind of DonutMedia! I’ve never owned a Subaru, so I can’t say anything bad, but it’s a damn shame Subaru had so many inherent issues you explain from factory. I get most if not all manufacturers have issues, but let’s face it, someone buys a Subaru for fun and speed, it’s a shame you have to spend so much money on the car (new) then still have to invest more money to fix what Subaru should have already engineered into it.
I think I agree with this but only in the case of the WRX. Since it’s supposed to be for rally (WRX: World Rally eXperimental), you would think they’d put a tougher transmission and a baffled oil pan stock. The other models I think are awesome in their stock form though. My Legacy runs smooth and I love it ❤.
@@makisitonga2530 Yes, the Aisin 6-speed manual should have been standard across the board. Not the Subaru 5-speed nor the Subaru 6-speed (which is just the 5-speed with an extra gear...). US market WRX STi could also have been supplied with the EJ207 with forged pistons instead of EJ257 with hypereutectic pistons. It's clearly cost cutting.
I do like the fact that they went through with buying cars that not everyone knows how to work on them. Yes there are a lot of information out there, but as the same time there’s trolls that don’t want to help out. I also think if they didn’t have a timeline to complete the series, they would’ve done their research correctly.
P
@@gaddielpacheco6976 well said
People just need to face facts. Subie's and EJ's are just not good motors for 99% of people. Yes, they CAN be decent, but this requires a TON of knowledge and research. EJ's, arguably, can be even more annoying and less reliable than Rotaries. You shouldnt need to be a mechanic and scholar to own a mass-produced Subaru and be able to drive it as it is advertised. EJ's are okay in stock form, but the second you try to mod them, they become a ticking time bomb. They are just fragile motors in comparison to most 4-cylinder alternatives in its class. To run an EJ properly and be able to mod it and make it somewhat reliable, you need to invest a lot of time and money and upgrade many of the factory problems. All of my Subaru's were fun but they were a massive money pit. My STI was more money to Maintain than my BMW. Which should tell you something.
@@Maximus20778 Bud, are you trying to say the EJ is a good motor for power and mods? If so, you are in denial. It is not opinion at all. Even Porsche has come out and talked about the drawbacks and shortcomings of a flat boxer engine. There is a reason the EJ and Subaru's have such a bad reputation. And you cant blame it on the owner and driver. Honda's have a 10x worse customer base, and treat their cars far worse, and you dont see K's, B's and F series having this same rep.. And Subaru's key demographic for the WRX and sport models are older males on average with larger incomes. So Subaru has even less to go on in that area.
@@JonHop1also what does Subaru demographics have to do with this? Makes no sense
I am working on a self-made oil pressure and temp gauge for my 3.0 Outback to know more about the engine when it is properly warmed up regarding the coolant temp and running time. I am happy that you take the time and analyze the Donut videos about the Hi-Low Subaru build. I enjoyed it, thanks!
I've owned many of these cars over the years. I work at the Indiana Plant and have since it opened.
Our company is continuously dogged by TFL , Motortrend on and on.
I also have never had a failure with mine .
There are TOO MANY stories at our plant about horrible mistakes made at quick lubes / owner abuse and etc.
I work in the Body Maint. Dept. and I'm here to tell you these cars are built like tanks compared to their competition.
I worked on the Toyota line when it was here. Camry is built like a beer can compared to the Legacy.
People hate on the Ascent but love the KIA and HYUNDAI >>WTF ??
Mr. Subaru if yer ever interested in a plant tour / let us know.
That would be absolutely amazing!!!
Proud owner of a 4S4 VIN here :) Subaru is the only Japanese brand I'm confident in buying one of their cars made in America. My 2005 Outback XT is at 400,000km and still going strong thanks to the work you guys did building it way back then !
@@MrSubaru1387 This has to happen!!!! A tour would be such a good video.
You guys made my 2010 Outback 3.6. i love it and is going on 185k miles. Thank you and the plant for their craftsman ship
I keep seeing Tellurides on the side of the road here in Colorado. I have yet to see an Ascent on the side of the road.
awesome getting real knowledge from a real technician! props man! love the tool short too
Tells you it’s not the Subarus fault - proceeds to point out all the factory defects 😂
Great video!
I have an ‘02 wagon since ‘01.
Stage 1 tune.
Motor went to 176k then burned an exhaust valve. Still had hone crosshatch in cylinders! One rod bearing was down a few layers. Early cranks had less oiling holes for rods. 85k into the replacement oem short block- so far runs nice, oil doesn’t burn or get that dirty in the 5-6k intervals. Run Mobil 1 10w30 or 5w30 since new. Appreciate the oil pickup, baffle, windage tray advice! Tech opted to reuse original oil pump… should have that checked/replaced.
Love the car generally!
Handles like a sports car, great for snowy trips, practical aside from so-so mpg.
I don't know...I have my 06 STI at 151k miles... still going strong - original engine, turbo and clutch, also sees redline daily.
Been to track several times, front gold Brembos have turned into brown-bos. I do burn 1 qt or so every oil change (3k miles) depending on the oil.
Other than typical maintenance, the ones that went bad are - all four struts (replaced with coil overs), power steering pump, radiator, turbo inlet pipe, turbo up-pipe and had a leak on the valve cover gaskets. Not sure how many of these were due to the time at the track. Yes the maintenance is more than a typical Japanese vehicle, but but not too bad.
Tbh they all are similar issues with my (200km ej207). Think they are just common issues that anyone with Google and a brain can identify and fix. But most people just want to trash their rides and blame the manufacturer 😅
I’m not in the Subaru community but I have a bmw with 200k on it, the donut guys are after views people would rather see engines blow up then see someone do maintenance
@@ProfessionalRtard If I take a Honda of that same gen and track it, will it blow up like the EJ of this gen? If I take Miata of the same gen?, A Nissan Z, an Evo, an Audi, BMW Porchse, any other high performance model car?
This car is marketed a a rally car for the street and thus should not blow up due to bad non-baffled oil pan issue from the factory. People joke how most performance cars are less reliable when modified except for Subaru's which actually require warranty voiding modifications in order to make the car last. (Stock tune running too rich, non baffled pan, etc)
Thanks for the update Robert my Son was watching those guys. Take care of yourself.👍❤️❤️
I'm a mechanic... so I get it. But... I can think of a hundred cars that could be taken and "thrashed" without needing to replace the whole oiling system with "race parts". And you mean to tell me that all the Kias and Hyundais and Toyota and Chevys that happen to have factory baffled pans... have "race parts" on them from the factory?. No... just better engineering.
Thanks for reminding me to sell my WRX. Piss poor engineering.
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Turbocharging puts a tremendous amount of pressure on an engine. It can be done safely and Subarus engineers figured it out. Then people go behind the engineers and put on way more pressure by turning up actuators and bigger turbos and surprise surprise they blow head gaskets and engines. Change your oil with the right quality oil and check it often. Use the right coolant and make sure it’s topped off. Don’t mess with factory stuff and you won’t blow engines.
You can change whatever you want from factory as long as all factors have been accounted for. Just... Stick with an NA car aight?
But what about the 3 other engines they blew before even modifying the motor? And how come the Z's and the money pit Miata never had an issue being turbod?
Then why does this only happen to Subarus when people have been adding turbos to engines that never came with them and not having these issues? Hell, I've turned up the boost on my Chevy Cruze for years, over double the factory PSI and never had a single problem.
@@Weimerica8841 I got a 07 wrx and been on 20psi and haven't had any issues
@@CrackedDylMil they blew them because they didn't properly break them in, should of used a baffle oil pan with all the turns and things they were doing and they starved the motor with oil and all the motors were used except the new one which didn't blow at the end
Thank you for your insight as always! I am so happy I found your channel - you sure know Subarus! We have two of them and follow your maintenance recommendations. Love our Impreza and BRZ!
So they showed that subarus need more effort , work and info poured into them than other cars you can modify - great
Sounds a lot like you're saying "Subarus are piles of shit that can't go on track without extensive modifications to their basic running gear" which is pretty much what donut concluded lol
It is such a joy to watch your content. I have a younger nephew that went out and purchased the exact same crosstrek that I own (2018). It is beat up, parts falling off, etc. The A/C no longer works, extra LED lights all over it.
He is the kinda guy that wears flannel shirts and sits in parking lots with his other crosstrek buddies talking about motor swaps, steering wheel swaps, etc but doesn't understand the value of 3k-5k oil changes and maintenance.
Your content is top notch. thanks!
I like how they just won't admit suburu has unreliable engines
literally all these guys can do is cope.. “you didn’t install the engine on a blood moon so it won’t last long”
For real, cant they accept their old ass EJs are delicate? They know it, we know it stop trying to die on the "subaru is reliable bwaaaa" hill.
I know you said you're going off of memory BUT...
ruclips.net/video/AG8pveIYpEA/видео.html
at 2:50 They said every engine, after the first one that wasn't broken in properly, had a baffled oil pan.
8:37 Is the full list of supporting mods. They said the supporting mods were comparable and both good brands, the real comparison was on the turbos.
10:39 They got it tuned at Yimi Sport. They specialize in Subaru, 5 stars on yelp, 4.6 on google.
Can you give me the link or time stamp for when they "changed the stock oil components and learned their lesson"?
Driving hard on a freshly built motor isn't a good idea, even they agree. But what's the excuse for every other motor? I came into this video with an open mind but I wasn't convinced.
>it's their fault for not replacing every single part in the engine because they are faulty designs
>There are full race series based around fully stock crown vics that are hammered every day and all they need is tires.
Not sure how you can defend Subaru on this
I don't think you can blame donut too much. I'm coming into the Subaru world with a VB (which I'm enjoying a lot), but I'm learning a lot about how many issues the older Subarus have had. Definitely something that would keep me away from the older gens. Hoping the VB is rock solid. Although the RTV issue is scaring me.
But there are plenty of people i know with older subarus that are well over 200k. Its called maintenance some need more than others.
He’s not blaming them, just saying how their “test” is inconclusive and the “car scene” will just believe it
@@onehundredpicks5531 Proof right here. 2001 Forester with 206k on the clock. Maintenance on sked. Still running strong. Had an '04 WRX back in the day which I tracked and autocross pretty much. Again maintenance on sked. No problems.
@@onehundredpicks5531 I know a guy that had over 200k miles on a Dodge Neon. Doesn't mean it's a car I'd own nor a reliable car for the other 99.99% of owners that constantly had issues. You shouldn't need to be a fanboy to keep a car alive and you shouldn't need to upgrade your car just to take fast corners without losing oil. Bad design is bad design and the engines being a pita to work on for even minor maintenance would and should scare many people away that aren't willing to put in the time to maintain a car that comes with issues from factory.
@@sirseriously wholeheartedly agree. I know someone who killed a corolla. Never changed the oil ran about 30k miles with no oil change. But the corolla is known for being reliable. Maintenance is key
I'm glad they made Subarus look bad. Hopefully it'll drop their prices for us 😅
😂😂😂
Lets be real. Some of this is on Donut and some on Subaru. Regardless of information being out there, the oil system was/is a bad design. Did Subaru really think a WRX wouldn't be tracked or pulling Gs?
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This is exectly why, if not me, I only let a former Subaru technician with 20 years of experience who owns his own shop solely dedicated to Subarus work on my car.
Alot of the hate for modifying these older subarus is because these engines are already built to the upper limits of what the engine can take with out major overhaul of the engine systems. Its not like many of the other imports like Nissan 350z or Toyota supras where the engines were deliberately undertuned and easily had 1 to 2 hundred more horses in the engine before needing to go back over with supporting mods. The trade off being if you do blow it up it is very easy to replace whatever you broke.
Well. these are also the more expensive blocks to replace before Ls and Vs and such.
2004 version 8 USDM STi with 212k miles, original engine and transmission. Bolt ONS - stock tune - with religious maintenance and still runs like a bat out of hell 👍
They didn’t disparage Subaru and they even said they had baffled oil pans from the beginning. You should have watched the series to speak on it.
So are we arguing that Subaru is good because they can do things most cars can do from the factory after you put a grand in aftermarket mods on them or that Subaru gets a pass because everyone knows about these issues?
OK, so a bunch of idiots trashed some cars. That happens all too often, and those of us who actually maintain our Subarus do nothing but sneer at these people. Having owned 8 of them, I seriously refute any claim that Subarus are junk.
Porsche redlines engines at the factory with 0 miles on them. It absolutely should not be the case that a modern engine spins a bearing just from hard driving in break-in. Is it good for longevity? No, but people buy all kinds of Corvettes, Porsches, BMWs, etc. and track them straight off the lot and they don't spin a bearing at 200 miles. You correctly go through the reasons, but I think that's giving the engine's design a pass. I can go thrash a Yaris off the lot on a little track like they were at and doubt the engine blows up.
You can see a shit ton of miatas old and new being thrashed with no issues other than maybe needing a radiator.
Are you going to do an update video they just released that after the first engine they upgraded the oil system (oil pump , oil pan, and oil pickup) plus upgraded the cooling system because they were told that's also a problem, just seems like these engines aren't reliable unfortunately
hahaha
GREAT timing for these videos, I hope that the vast majority of people don’t see what we do in subarus and the prices don’t continue to go crazy. I honestly hope the subaru memes stay around so i can afford my dream subarus 😂
Send more WRXs to donut media
The more Subaru haters there are, the more Subarus for us that love them!
Personally I believe they hate and try to trash Subarus because they can’t deal with actually how great they are. I don’t listen to clown section….what do they know?
You forgot to add "dogs" to your name, otherwise it's perfect 🥰
@@strobos4215 he crossed the rainbow bridge almost 2 years ago, haven't gotten another fur baby 😭😭
I don’t think cracking jokes about Subie’s poor reliability is the same as hating it. I crack subie jokes all the time, but I love them. I’d get one if they could handle mods more reliably, without building up a large expense in support mods like oil pan, oil pickup, oil pump, etc…
But there’s many platforms roughly around the same price range that will make just as much, if not more power for a lesser cost, because they don’t require as many support mods.
There’s plenty of unreliable platforms that people love, for example Mazda rotaries. But if you love something about the platform enough, you’ll put the time and money in to make it more reliable.
I’d buy a Subie as a second vehicle any day if I had the money to do the right mods to it. But I don’t, so I chose a more reliable platform that can handle mods and still be a reliable daily that can also handle a few laps around the track without starving itself of oil.
But yeah, y’all just gotta embrace the jokes. I embrace the jokes about the poor reliability of my German car’s over engineered electronics. Vehicles have their notorious problems. That doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy them, and find ways to fix them.
@@brickson98m oh I personally don't mind the jokes, I get them from my nephews... Ford and BMW guys... but I can dish it out 10x better!
As a tech who now sells cars, this is with all sports cars. People mod cars then blow engines because they do not make sure internals and stock parts will work with it.
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Willing to listen and learn :) haven't worked on a car ever before, and i appreciate your insights
My track 06 LGT 5M has been stellar, has power & weight reduction mods, and 205000 miles on the original block and a stock ish turbo. Burns oil but i hooked it up to an iv and it just won't die. 🤪 Oh yeah, and a big radiator, oil cooler, catch cans, nice baffle and oil pickup.
Ive owned 3 GC8s , first was 145k miles, second was 156k miles both stock blocks and worked perfectly. My third and current one has 125k miles and is a 1993, did change the headgasket but it is a 28 year old car 🤷♂️
Edit: All 3 are WRXs with mods.
As the owner of a subaru performance shop. Those boys did EVERYTHING WRONG
The fact that these engines are this old and so many people know about these issues and still after all these years, Subaru has still not fixed any of them is MIND BOGGLING.
Thanks for all the content including this video.
367k miles on my gc turbo and proper maintenance has kept her running good. Only time it was down was 1 bad fuel pump and a turbo past its life. Other then that she has been good to me and quite liked by the local school community near by.
Out of everything in this video, the part where high-siding the car and starving the engine of oil is the most concerning. No engine should suffer a full failure from a few seconds of oil pressure loss. I've tipped over four-stroke snowmobiles, quads, and adventure bikes, with the engines running for quite a number of seconds at times, before I could shut them off. None even suffered even minor damage for the brief oil starvation. Heck, the old Detroit diesel in my one machine doesn't even indicate oil pressure for over a minute on startup.
Clearly, Subaru engines have some sort of vulnerability that most other engines don't exhibit.
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Thank you for explaining why subaru's are bad. Seems like they have potential to be good as long as you engineer out the issues you outlined.
(For racing)
And for street use just keep up with proper maintenance and don't "mod them to death".
@@MyAutomotiveChannel what would be an example of a reasonable mod and one that pushes into death-mod territory?
@@Taalanos Mods without tunes, people putting cheap Ebay aftermarket parts onto their car, etc etc. (Putting stuff into the car which it was never engineered for.)
Every car has issues lol. Even Toyotas. It's something you need to take care of. And for the record, we have two 2003 Subarus that are almost to 350k, on the orginal engines, and have had little issues (mostly just suspension). They both run like a charm. I'd like to say we're lucky, but I also have a friend who has an older Legacy that's still kicking at almost 300k and no issues.
@@Doobency Subaru does make great vehicles, no doubt.
My 2002 wrx that I just purchased not too long ago has been running strong, no oil leaks, and its been bulletproof this winter!
wait
In the final video, don’t they state that they had baffle loyal fans on it the entire time
Subaru: “Oh you put me on two wheels, guess I’ll die.”
1990 Honda with 300,000 miles: “give me 20lbs of boost. I want it.”
Thank you for this video very good info and love the insight.
My take away was:
They didn't break in the engine (Obviously bad, you have to do that) but then the rest was, they didn't change several parts with aftermarkets upgrades. Parts like the oil pans, intakes and oil pumps and simple fragile gearboxes.
So if you were comparing cars in your mind (which i'm sure their doing of their experiences) you would still be justified in your bad experiences with these cars.
I think its all well and good that these deficiencies with the cars are well documented and information is available online, but its no defence for the car or brand to say "you should have known those designs are bad" "Its your fault for driving them fast"
I didn't know anything about the oil issues in the WRX and when I was thinking of buy one, I 100% would have loved to take it to a track day a few times in ownership. I would be salty if the factory designs caused the car to fail and the response was "You should have known to replace the oil pan"
Still love the cars though, thats not going to change
Couldn't have said it better. They are criticizing Donut for "not taking into account oem deficiencies" like, bro the thing shouldnt be SO DELICATE.
Its not bad its just they didnt do properly break in using rotella oil, a baffled pan, an improved pickup, an air oil separator, a better tune, an upgraded radiator, an extra catch can and so on.. "3k in upgrades just so it doesnt blow up after 2 laps".
I love your video. You made a lot of good points for pro Suburu. They're still unreliable unless you baby them. Have a great day!
I’ve flogged my bugeye for 7 years on a very basic build with an STI drivetrain at 434whp. I beg to differ
I’m not trying to be disrespectful but the guys at Donut have pretty decent knowledge and I think they know what they are doing. They only built those because they wanted to have fun, not to be serious. If you watch the whole series you would know they are having fun and making memories.
Wow. You're 100% right bud. I'm never watching donut media again!
Yeah I was a little peeved when those guys absolutely shit on the Subaru brand while completely neglecting to take responsibility for their own inability to properly educate themselves properly on the vehicle they were working on. Subarus are absolute tanks and will take a lot of abuse if they have been treated right for most of their life. I personally love them for their off-road capabilities even though they technically were not designed for heavy off-road applications. But they handle it like a champ, and sometimes better than actual 4x4 vehicles, when given the right modifications.
Usually, when someone calls something a tank, it’s because it can take abuse and keep going. That is not the case for these Subies. 🤷🏻♂️
So no, they’re not all tanks. With the right mods, I’m sure they may be. But without them, they’re honestly on the fragile side. Engine wise. I have no idea about the chassis.
IDK if I'd call them tanks, but they aren't snowflakes if you treat them right
No they ain’t 😂
tanks just with a few grand of mods. you buy it fresh youre out of luck
@@idkbacon sure sounds like a snowflake if it grenades the engine simply from a few high G turns 🤷🏻♂️ My old Sonata even handled it fine when I was chasing a drunk driver that ran my buddy’s bike over. My GTI can be taken to the track and not starve itself of oil after a few laps.
Of course, at least 1 or 2 of the engine failures Donut had was from not breaking their engine in. And they admitted to that, idk what else you people want. But beyond that, it was caused by design faults with the platform. Yes, they can be fixed to avoid the issues they faced, but that doesn’t mean that the problem doesn’t exist in the stock design. Problems that most other platforms don’t have.
No I don’t hate Subaru, but I understand that they’re pickier. There’s extra support mods that need to be done before you can track them or mod them.
This is s a good thing. We are missing the fact that this will help us get more subarus for us, lol. I, for 1, was looking for an older STI project. Hopefully, this drove down some cost.
I've read that the 5mt in the Legacy GT has a slightly thicker gear set than the WRX transmission. Have you ever heard that or noticed a difference in your experience?. I'm currently making 400whp on E85 in my 06 LGT but I'm on my 3rd transmission. And I'm here to say blast plates don't help. Nothing can stiffen that split case up properly. If definitely like to do a 6 speed swap eventually but will probably go for a spec B 6 speed.
I love subarus. I have an 08 sti hatch. I did blow a motor once, but it was making 500whp on the stock block with forged internals. The cylinder wall cracked under 27psi of boost. I expected something to fail eventally. I've got an eg33 now, beefy cylinder walls and 2 extra cylinders. Great motor.
“Subaru’s are great cars if you replace the parts they came with for aftermarket part”😂😂😂
“Subaru’s are great cars if you replace the parts they came with for aftermarket part if you are tracking them"
Subarus are great cars if you maintain them properly. Just change the engine regularly and you'll have no issues.
Subarus are great cars you can spend 20k on a car and then spend another 20k on aftermarket parts
Maybe it is a good opportunity to make a video on how to properly modify a Subaru for track time the right way. I am just saying. :)
Had a 07 WRX, spent a lot of time trying to learn what to do to make a Subaru last while also making it quite a bit faster. Did just about every bolt on you can think of besides a bigger turbo (wanted the rest of the engine ready for a bigger turbo when I got one). Car had about 114k miles and was clearly neglected when i first got it, and at 150k+ with upgrades it ran like a champ and i definitely didn’t baby it but at the same time didn’t drive it like a maniac. The mods i give the most credit for keeping the engine strong and the mods i recommend every new owner starting with are a solid AOS, upgraded oil system (pan, windage tray, pickup), and the GetADomTune cylinder 4 coolant flow mod. Car had 262whp and 332wtq, with trans reinforcement it still blew through 3rd gear. Have an STI now and feels good having some peace of mind being able to apply all I’ve learned to something that’ll handle the power. Long story short, if you plan on modding a Subaru, get an STI.
Hi there I’m owner of 2021 STI with 12k miles on it. Will you recommend doing the upgrades you mentioned to increase the life of my engine? I use it as daily and do regular maintenance on it. Just want to make sure it lasts me for years. Thank you in advance
@@raminramin85 I’m not exactly sure the ins and outs of the ‘21 system or what to add i should say but yes absolutely. Every Subaru’s first mods should be an AOS, oil pickup at minimum for the oil system (i think killer b does a solid deal for their pickup+windage tray+pan system), and especially the GetADomTune cylinder 4 coolant flow mod. After that I’d look into doing a parallel fuel system and ELH but that’s kinda getting into the knitty gritty. Just focus on those previously mentioned mods and do your best to lower intake temps and control overall heat in the engine bay, along with regular maintenance your car will last as long as you want it to
@@raminramin85 OCTurboJoe’s VR chassis build on here is a very solid path to follow
@@Shadey473 thank you so much for taking the time to reply back. I appreciate you.
don't forget quality equal length headers. I have agency power on mine and it still sounds amazing
My favorite part of this video is the channel ID juxtaposition of pulling the timing cover off of a Subaru engine on a stand. That's the kind of accidental comedy I live for.
Donut media is a prime example of having more money than sense
I started getting these guys in my feed a while back, I watched a few videos and quickly realized they're not worth watching. They could use with having someone on staff that is a real race mechanic or to even do a bit of research.
@@merfishsandwich691 Zach jobe is actually a pretty good mechanic on donut staff. Takes more than one guy to avoid mob mentality to making "entertaining" content though I guess.
They're a company that makes money, and they're succeeding.
My mother had 2002 Subaru legacy and it was my favorite car (reliable and cool looking), but she sold it (because of high mileage) to get a Toyota. When I thinking about getting one, the bad mpg (compared to Corolla and Civic), and mechanics friend telling that I will have to deal with leaky head gasket, was a turn off from getting a Subaru. But after the Donut Media video, it really made me glad that I had no plans on getting a Subaru, but your explanation really made me consider the Subaru getting a Subaru if the gas prices go down.
I've got a stock 1999 Subaru WRX. It's got 225000kms on it. I'm the second owner and Ive had it for 11 years. Full service history.
Put good fuel, good quality air filter in the stock airbox, good spark plugs and good oils they will treat you right. I've raced a fair few other WRX and mine always does well againts them. Proper maintenance and not throwing on a giant front mount or a pod filter is the way to go.
I have arguably the most unreliable wrx the 2002 and I've got 215k miles and everything including transmission is stock and it's been running a stage 2 Cobb ots tune for close to 80k miles
I'm glad I found this video, just bought a BRZ with a brand new engine and while I haven't been beating it up like donut did with those wrx's, have been doing a little more than I should. I love this car and have wanted one for years, so I'm going to make sure I don't ruin this one.
First donut didn’t break the motors… the engineers did. Oil starvation killed every motor they bought. Second if you buy a used car with a new motor more than likely the design of the motor is terrible. If you like the car aye fam I’m happy for you…. If you notice an a single issue with the motor trade it immediately though.
@@iCEBERG711 Most braindead comment i've heard, u know engines can blow up for various reasons right? User error or engineering.... and oil starvation shouldn't be an issue for people who actually take 2 mins to check their oil before beating the crap out of a car they just bought.
Put 390,000 miles on a 1989 Subaru Justy 4x4 manual. Then sold it for $700 and the buyer drove it from NC to California. Uh huh. Junk my bippy.
We're on our second Subaru. Loved the first one so much we bought another. Like you said proper maintenance will work for all vehicles and don't beat the shit out of a car and expect it to last.
I was wondering if you were going to make a response video. Good info. Too bad all the haters commenting on the Subie Hi/low videos won't bother to watch this. I was looking forward to the series but got very disappointed toward the end. They gave Subaru a bad name, unfortunately. They should have done more research before thrashing on them.
But you can't really blame them tho, for example: for the first time when they have to get the baseline , they wanted to get it with the stock car (ie no prep mods for the track) cuz thats the state that someone would buy a subie (although skipping the break in is a very stupid mistake on DMs part)
subaru gave themselves a bad name by having poorly built systems and fragile parts from the factory. shouldnt have to sink money into a brand new (at the time) car just to make it run right
Nah I watched it, and it justified its name. Yes EJ is a great engine when used as intended. But it feels like such a cope by saying the reason probably half of them blew up is because the community proved this engine is a bad platform for anything outside of commuting, and you should install baffling, pickup mod, cylinder 4 cooling correction, and upgrade the oil pump, to be able to track and do something MANY other engines can do stock.
Sounds like my first car. I didn't know what I was doing, how to take care of it, had no help learning and set about turning a mole hill into several mountains. Too bad too because I paid 100% of the money for it and every bit of every bill I created in my ignorance.
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So much copium in one video and comment section lol
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Can you make a video on your thoughts about the RA block? Are they really as good as the hype suggests or are they no better than the old non-RA blocks?
I have stopped watching fatbread media over 18 months ago and do not regret it.
Thanks for the tipp for the baffled oil pan and the oil pump. I'll have them checked and/or modified on my WRX on it's next service.
I stopped watching a while back also. I found the channel early on and it seemed good but the fat guy yelling random lines would get annoying. Seemed like the more popular the channel got the more the fat guy would do his spontaneous yelling and I finally had enough. Unsubbed and moved on.
Do the 08-14 wrx’s have the newer baffled oil pans?
Haven't watched their content in awhile. It's really low quality stuff now, used to be so much better in the past.
Haha you would’ve learned that 3+ weeks ago if you did watch them😂
@@TheRandomname951 no, not even the 15+. Still have to get I aftermarket. Same with pick up tube.
Great video! Thank you for the upload!
If you want to go to the track, get a Honda not a Subaru. You’ll save yourself from headaches and most importantly track time.
I’m glad Donut made a video about tracking Subarus since it’s the exact experience I had with Wrx’s and Sti’s vehicles. I just went broke and became depressed.
After switching to a 350Z and Honda civic si (8th gen), I never had engine problems for the past 4 years 🙏🏼
If you are a subi owner, please review this video and take precaution. Oil starvation kills EJ motors
I don't own a Subaru. One day though. I took Donut Media's hi/lo series with the Subarus with a grain a salt considering they admit to not doing things correctly or having no knowledge of Subarus. If anyone is looking for serious "reliability", drive a Corolla. Talk about reliability... ;) :P Looking to get an Outback Wilderness sometime this year. :D
The 2ZZ in the Corolla T-Sport/Sportivo is a great engine! 8500rpm all day long. The rest of the car isn't that great, but the engine is great! 🙂
We all need a Donut Media x MrSubaru mashup
Opposite sides of the country! Lol Although they did come to NC recently to build MrBeast a rocket TransAm.
My favourite part of visiting the mechanics as a kid was climbing the 10 foot tall Subaru blown engine mountain they had next to the shelving unit full of turbos
So if I buy a 25 year old C-5 Crvette, Golf, or Mustang, I can immediately take it to a road course for track day, but I need to replace the oiling system and transmission on a WRX because they are poorly designed and fragile.
So noted.
Justin is a great addition to the Donut team (SVX owners ftw) but yeah, this Hi/Lo was a miss. When one of the guys in the 2nd videos said “I don’t really work on these” I knew it was gonna be bad.
I pray they will re introduce the svx. Awesome ride.
@@tedgunderson67 Subaru or donut? Justin has mentioned his a few times in his early “getting settled in” donut videos, but mentioned offline that donut won’t go for such a obscure car. Subaru…I’m not the expert on Subarus but chances of them bringing it back are basically none since they lost money on every model when they were produced.
I was wondering why they didn't have Justin involved whatsoever. If he owns an SVX he's probably into other Subarus
They're pointing it from an amateur view. Someone may like a subaru an buy one and how no clue how to work on it. They would be the exact same considering they are also considerent amateurs when working on cars. What are you expecting from them?
@Benjamin Bristow I was thinking about that from that perspective as well but personally if I'm rebuilding an engine or adding shit to any platform I'm gonna scour the internet for any sort of info. And I'm also not going to shell out the money for a rebuild and then not properly break it in. I dunno, just comes off ham fisted and strictly like it's just the age old "Subaru's are unreliable HEE HEE" meme