Hey Icy Mike, my teacher, Trains us in all four of those stances plus a few variations in kickboxing and all for different uses. We do drills for each. He calls that 3rd stance “semi-squared”. I think it would be really cool if you guys got to touch on the depth each stance (if he would be interested as well).
I don't necessarily disagree with you on your last intro statement. Though it was a joking-boast, you definitely are more thoughtful in applications, and well rounded than a ton of martial artists, not to blow smoke up your skirt or anything. I'm not saying you could just dive in and be a fight champion, but as far as principals and the true underlying philosophy or physics of MA, you are pretty on point. Always more to learn. You are humble enough to absorb, but reasonable enough to discern. "A wise man learn even what he can from a fool, whereas a fool disregards instruction." Selah. Shalom. Peace & Elbow Grease!
Efficiently generating power is easier to do with a stable base. The more stable, the better. That's why I get down on all fours and pounce. My most devastating technique from this stance is the donkey kick. I once used this stance to ward off an attack. A group of devious rapscallions masquerading as middle schoolers descended upon my position while I relaxed in the local park. Never one to relinquish advantage, I immediately lept from the bench and assumed my stance. I started howling in an attempt to demoralize them. They began backing away in an attempt to disengage. I thought I had been victorious, but they soon returned with reinforcements. The second group was comprised of significantly larger individuals, who began yelling about me "harassing," their "children." Backed into a corner, I knew it was time to flee. I dropped into my stance and sprinted away. They did little to pursue. I assume they realized how futile a chase would have been. It's simple math, after all. Four legs should be twice as fast as two.
@@ElDrHouse2010 ehrm Judo has submissions Also you can train Judo and BJJ together no problem If youre sore and "overtrained" by that, so much that you *cant* .. you would be too if "Judo and BJJ were *one* again. You just progress slower , and your progress is already slow in Judo Also you are determined by time in which area you train BJJ Players know they suck at standing they know becaus they spend all time on the ground, thats why their good at it. If they want to get good at stand up, they have to divert *time* into standing and away from ground.
I think it was a Jack Dempsey quote that really changed my outlook: "Your stance is not a rigid structure to be maintained, but a tool to be manipulated"
@@KhaosTy it's been so long, I can't remember. I think it was from one of his books? (Also entirely possible I'm misremembering and attributing it to Dempsey)
@@ericwilkinson42 as long as I know he not say that the stance that should be manipulated, but it ballance should be manipulated to create a more force
You guys left out all the times where comments are not, in fact, statements. Sometimes they are not and it's important that you know that. Also the square stance is best as well except for when the bladed stance is. Which is at different times.
Old school karate guy (Kenpo) for over 35 years. Been training Muay Thai for almost a year. I battle with this stance issue frequently. Trying to be a good Muay Thai student but once I start getting tagged in sparring, I revert back to more of a bladed stance. Trying not to be douchey in sparring. I want to try it their way. It’s challenging for me when the stress is on.
You're actually going to sharpen your new tools on people who are less skilled than you. The less of those people in your gym there are, the longer this will take. When you go with more skilled partners, you will resort to things you are comfortable with and have a history of success with when pressured. When you go with less skilled partners you can do pretty much whatever you want, so you can practice the new stuff.
@@hard2hurt Mikey Musumeci (one of the best grapplers in the world) only trains with hobbyist BJJ players. Blew my mind. He trains with regular joes and then taps top BJJ players in the world.
I totally get you there. Over a decade of karate under my belt but I’m trying to branch out and learn other ways of striking to round myself out. Forcing myself to square up and stand and bang is super difficult to do. I’m constantly fighting the instinct to revert to bladed and stance and more linear in and out footwork.
@Andrew Yeah, I figured he would get some good mat time with top players, but he said pretty clearly that he only rolls with hobbyists. He also said he works out of his garage, and so I suppose he handpicks who gets to train with him.
I've learned Taekwondo in my youth and transitioned to boxing and Muay Thai. Had problems at first but now I can actually utilize crazy steps and kicks and switches im Muay Thai. And I'm a big tall fella. So I really profited from that. As for Taekwondo alone, it's not too useful outside of Taekwondo and a brawl against a total newb.
“Your opponent determines how you fight.” So many people do not understand this. You can have a “style” or game plan, but depending on the situation and opponent/attacker, you will have to adjust and adapt accordingly. So at least be comfortable in multiple styles, stances, etc. Great video!
You also need to be able to assert and dictate the fight as well, I'm not saying the point is wrong, but that it can sometimes lead your mindset to be biased to always be on the defensive if you are only reactive and not proactive. At the end of the day, someone's always leading the dance, a reaction only exists when there is something being asserted after all, because the same could be said for both parties. As the saying goes, offense is the best defence. You're just trying to make sure that it's you more times than not, as much as possible.
@@xanferthehaunted9788 100% agree with this. But even when on the offensive you still have to adapt your stance or style depending on the situation and opponent
This is the reason I trained in tae kickboxing. Being pure tae kwon do, my hand game was crap. I never lost any backyard fights, but I got my bell rung a few times. Take kwon do is a bladed stance, tae kickboxing is a squared stance. Learning a bit of jiu jutsu helped round me out also.
Awesome stuff 🙂 I'm a HEMA student, and I know that I'm on square stance when the reach is almost equal on both hands. That when using a two handed weapon (like longsword) or two weapons combo (sword and buckler/shield). For a one handed weapons like rapier or saber, then a "bladed" stance will make you a bit smaller target! Messer is an exception for this rule (I'm not sure why, maybe just tradition). But thanks for the awesome content, as usual 😊
At least in my school, the reason the messer is an exception is because there's *so* much grappling in most messer systems. Being squared up, whichever foot is forward, means that you can bring your other hand into play for grappling much easier than if you were in a bladed stance.
@@someirishkid9241 that's correct, and messer itself is taught as a subset of longsword techniques and strategy as well, including passing footwork vs. gathering footwork (which makes a much bigger difference than stance itself)
@@urbanarmory oh, you're right! I had forgotten about that connection. I suppose it makes sense, since Lecküchner and the like lived in a time when German longsword traditions were still going strong.
One thing that made my understanding of stances deeper is that stances are always in relation to your opponent. If your opponent moves laterally, your stance will change. You will be more squared up, more bladed, or even switch to southpaw/orthodox if your opponent moves around you. So if you only fight bladed, there will be situations in your fight that your only move will be to get back to your preferred stance.
Thanks for breaking down the stance binary Mike! The part about sprinters' stance with the back heel up is very similar to our jkd stance for that exact reason...and when I get tired and lazy I revert to Muay Thai stance 🙃
Willow -- Yes on the JKD back-heel-up! It comes from Bruce Lee's fascination with fencing which is all about explosive movement forward. That's where the interception comes from. I do the same thing when I need a break in a fight -- weight goes back and there's a lot less straight lead/pak sao and a lot more teep.
I really appreciate the way he says in the first 30 seconds that he doesn't try to change them from what they know because I did bjj for over a year before I did wrestling and during drilling I had my left foot forward like how I normally have for my stance and he said to change it to right foot forward since that is how he is showing us to wrestle
The best stance is a fluid stance. There is always a weakness and strength in a certain stance. Countering your opponent is the best stance, learning to be fluid to do that takes tons of time!
For me I switch it up, if I’m at distance I will use more of a bladed stance, but if the inside I naturally become more square. I started in boxing and that’s how I was trained
I have 3 stances depending on how I'm fighting. I teach bladed for kicking and long range, more square/orthodox kick boxing if they are more of a boxer, and square parallel stance if they are gonna grapple. Each stance has an advantage and disadvantage.
I thought square stances r better for kicking plus checking and boxing is more bladed but i use squared most the time for equal power in my hands and so i can have a good lead hook
I really dig this breakdown because being forced to do everything exactly how you’re told was always the thing with traditional martial arts that bothered me. I get why but it’s still annoying.
tbf, i think the maxim of “you need to know the rules to break them” is often totally legit. there are things that are good basics to learn as a firm base that you then use to develop other stuff. if you just go in shifting your stance, you probably wont have a good base. but i dont do traditional martial arts, just something ive apreciated in general when it comes to different disciplines. martial arts, drawing, music, writing, etc. just like in drawing getting a firm grasp of perspective and proportions can the. let you bend those rules in well founded ways that arent janky.
@@midshipman8654 And also some things just don't work depending on your sport. If you try to have too bladed a stance in pure Muay Thai it's just not suited for the sport. If you're a freak standout you might be able to make it work anyway, but it's just like trying low percentage stuff in BJJ, Judo, or Greco Roman/Olympic wrestling. You can do it if you want, but you're not giving yourself good chances from the outset. In boxing a more bladed stance works fine, though still not too bladed. In Muay Thai you're just setting yourself up for failure. It's not bad, but different sports require different kinds of optimization of stance and footwork.
Thanks for this video. There are a lot of teachers out there saying "my way is a lot better", "the other ways suck". It's very nice to see open mindness in martial arts and combat sports.
It would be interesting to see Wonderboy and Izzy discuss this stuff, and also point out the Sanda stance, which is somewhat in between a lot of the time. I actually noticed that when I started training Sanda I started switching stances naturally, and I think it's because of how it's somewhat in the middle of both square and bladed
I liked the point about sprinters. You will often find the same logic in weapons based martial arts, like Kendo, where many considerations in this video just don't mean as much as taking the first step and being the first one to reach the other guy - because you might be okay with taking a fist to the torso … a sword tip, not so much.
That stance that he showed at the end looks a lot like Kendo. Even the drop foot thing he showed looks somewhat similar to a fumikomi stamp that is used a lot in Kendo.
One note on having the bladed stance vs leg kicks. While your leg is closer to them which makes it easier to leg kick… your leg is closer to them. Making it easier to kick them too. A common way I deal with kicks in Muay Thai, which is known for its tall, bladed stance most fighters have, is by putting a teep in there as or before they throw that leg kick, and the teep will win if timed correctly. Not only that but when they’re balancing on one leg to throw that kick it makes that teep more effective. For all the Karate and TKD folks, as well as the boxers wanting to make use of more kicks, a side kick from that stance can very quickly be used to beat them to the (kick) punch, like using a jab to stop someone from coming in with a lead hook in boxing.
This also transfers over to pistol craft. Weaver Stance (Bladed) Vs Modified Isosceles (Square). Being a student of Kenpo, whose primary stance is the Neutral Bow (Bladed) one can transition to the pistol using the Weaver without changing stance.
100% agree. Great video. Smart, nuanced, and to the point as always. One of the things I practice/teach is "melting" from a more bladed/extended stance to a square/compact stance as you close range (and vice versa). One of the first drills we do is just circling and closing/separating without doing anything but adjusting your stance and feeling range. One of the things I teach is that you have to a "theory of victory" -- what do you think is the likeliest way that you are going to win? -- and then optimize yourself around that. Wonderboy's theory of victory begins with the sidekick in space (which of course he is phenomenal at), so he optimizes his stance for it -- that's why he's so extremely bladed. But that also has ramifications for all the other factors in stance -- hand position, toes/flag, weight forward/back, etc.
The square stance you used that was compared to a sprinter's starting position, is what I use from a karate background! The video you made on the false lead is really what put it together for me though. If I want to launch my right hand before either switching, throwing either a thrusting front kick or a low kick, or to widen out and do a combo that takes angles in the pocket Ill use that punch. I always loved that false lead video you did, I think it was really the key to me putting my Kyokushinkai background and long-movements from my shotokan background together with much more fluidity. Before that I was either using Goju Ryu or Uechi Ryu as a middleman, or relying on my wrestling and judo to close the gap. Having a less commited offensive option that has the power of my rear hand without sacrificing mobility, give up my offensive pressure, kicking, or HAVING to grapple felt REALLY good. Big thank you for that. Prior to that video I only used that stance defensively or for switching my stance and throwing a powerful kick with either leg to cover the switch. I was racking my head trying to come up with a solution, but I was over-thinking it. A dropstep and the footwork for oi-zuki really were the best solution. Felt right immediately since a Karate background is all about using stances as movement to take a constantly advantaged position. Great vid as always man.
I loved every word of this video. A friend recommended Stephen as a UFA/MMA fighter with similar style to mine. From now on, when someone asks, this video will be the first thing I show them. Awesome stuff!
Thanks for confirming what my new kickboxing coach has been telling me. I've always been a real squared up fighter. But I'm learning to be able to change stances as dictated by my opponent.
If you watch "El guapo" he can uses the squared stance and uses counter strikes a lot. Since I got that explanation I prefer the squared stance. If your willing to take some blows sometimes it can be devastating for the opponent. Most of the times they aren't expecting a quick follow up when your taking the hit with a counter and follow through.
Bas gets taken down at will though. He's never been good at Takedown defense. There's always a price to pay. Use it in thai/kickboxinf and you'll be fine tho
Thank you for this. Im starting martial arts from doing fencing in the past and been trying to understand stances in MMA. This is tremendously helpful and makes sense.
The Cat Stance is the most deadly stance ever. I once did my deadly Cat Stance, when this Army Ranger came right at me (during sparring), and I yelled out, "KIAI!" He literally died........with laughter..
i trained at AKA and they would teach you to keep your front knee always pointed at your opponent, the squared stance allows for leg checking while bladed stance leaves you vulnerable to low kicks
4:24 It's called not limiting your movements to move from one place to another. Sometimes you need to change your position to move to different directions.
I remember an instructor I used to have used to tell me to stop switching between stances. He said I had a kicking stance and a punching stance. He said it made me easier to read. I would argue that I had a stance that favored kicking and a stance that favored punching. I just looked at it as, depending on who I was sparring and what I wanted to work on, I used different stances to work on different tools and tactics. This was great to see other people see the value in using different stances for diffrent tools and tactics.
This is the most informative video I have ever seen about stances and about their weakness. All the others just beat around the bush you sir were on point.
Thank you , i loved every single thing said in this video !! you can judge from my name but i'm a muay thai guy , and ive often been told that i was to wide on my base , but people just wont understand that it allows me to be so much more mobile and fast ! im a pretty thin guy so blocking isn't my forte i often rely on parries and evading and being just a little more able to move is perfect for me to get out of the way !
Square stance is also a world on it's own. There is a school of Thaiboxing where they are heavy on the back foot and light on the front foot for blocking and teeping, and another school that has more of front heavy load distribution with your back foot on your toes and heel up, ready for blitz fast middle kicking action and knees. I wish i was good at any of those. 🥲
Wonderboy is the GOAT. I think it was ghandhi that once said " a man who flings a poo must learn to also catch it ". nice work fellas! keep on rocking.
Bro i was straight up in the backroom at work doing footwork drills trying to figure out a good middle ground inbetwen my karate and the mma stance my coach has me us. God bless ya my mans
Square is better for back hand strikes, hooks and uppercuts. Bladed is better for in and out, footwork, jab and lead hooks. I think you should train both and it depends if youre long range or short range. It also depends whether you are a pure boxing fighter or cross trains mma or muay thai/kickboxing
When we are square. Heal toe alignment is to the center left and center right flank's. Attacking from angles? Layers of attack. Layers of defense? Awesome video sir!
One thing I did wanna add; in square stance, your Hooks have TREMENDOUSLY greater power than hooks from a bladed stance(well, besides rear hooks from a bladed stance which have the most power of all) provided you do the technique's right and have a bit of mass on you(not that much is required though; you can weigh like 150-160lbs and still have devastating hooks from a squared stance), and hooks are my main form of dealing damage when I fight or spar - my other punches are mostly setup punches, not always, but mostly. I've dropped or stunned so many dudes with simple lead left hooks from my square stance, even stand-alone left hooks; or in 2 or 3 punch combos. When I punch someones body in my square stance, I DO actually load up(and take the proper precautions and feints so I can actually land it...and considering most of my punches are going for the guys head, thats usually not even necessary and my loaded body shots land anyway cause they just assume I'm gonna bomb on their head even with obviously loaded shots, which I dont do cause its too predictable and too easy to dodge and frankly I dont wanna hit my sparring partners THAT hard in the head with a loaded up shot that was meant for their body; my non-loaded hooks from square stance can drop them just fine already I dont wanna imagine what a loaded up hook would do to them even through headgear). Of course its different in fights. Street fights included. Last time some scumbag attacked me on the street I won the fight by, after recovering from the sucker punch from behind that the dude started the fight with, I roundhouse kicked him in the side of the gut(the dude was literally trying to copy my stance after I had recovered from his sucker punch...but he had no idea how to actually fight, how to actually USE my stance so it didnt really help him at all though honestly nothing would've helped him at that point), then knocked him out cold with a step in loaded right hook to the side of his head. He dropped so fast it was incredible, right on his butt, and just stayed there. He tried getting up, but his legs shook and wobbled and he fell back down on his butt, and just covered his face and basically gave up after that. Going back to what I said before though: as long as you have sufficient technique and sufficient weight, your hooks from square stance can be devastating, AND you can throw them fairly quickly, even ones with power behind them provided you land on them(missing a power shot puts you out of position for an immediate follow up though esp if its fully loaded up). I'm a puncher and low kicker kind of fighter so square stance is perfect for my muay thai style. I also love the versatility of kicks and kick defense(and clinching) that comes with the square stance; and I feel much more balanced, at ease, and safe while in my square stance since I know all the correct ways to block incoming blows from that stance and immediately counter. However. It GREATLY limits the range of your jab compared to a bladed stance jab; and same with your cross(and rear hook). Bladed stance you can throw those much harder. But its harder to land. Gabriel Varga, that guy's fighting style, is by far the one that's most similar to mine, so is Joseph Valtellini's style. Its cause I partially based my own stance on theirs. Well its more like I already was fighting this way and found out about them and used their videos and fight footage to fine tune my own square stance to be more like their's and I have had great success doing that. I prefer blocking over other kinds of defense too and square stance is best at this. I value stability, square stance gives this in spades. You move slower but you are firm, and you can easily march someone down while blocking or parrying their blows and landing on them. I've been using a square stance as my main style for muay thai(and boxing) for the last 7 years or so(the time I've been training muay thai), and Ive only been developing my bladed stance for the past 1 year or 1 year and 6 months or so, so there's quite a difference in my experience level between the two styles. But I do use both in all my fights and spars and matches. Even in drilling. Just not fully comfortable using my bladed stance, esp against guys that are really good. I always default to my square stance in those fights. Use both imo. But make sure that one of those stances is your "main".
Im gonna save this, at my krav maga club, They always Force us to use the blade stance, but I swear I feel so much better and stronger in the square stance.
I like what Wonderboy said at the end about having to work at it to get the stances to function properly. Traditional forms helped me immensely in that regard with using stances.
Nicely done. You guys addressed a bunch of points that I think many people including well trained professionals could use in their brain diet. I would just add that not only is stance fluid but as you and Wonder Boy sort of spoke to, for you to become truly exceptional in your stance of choice you should train to have your offensive motions flow with/into/outof your main stance into others and back rapidly while in motion and not only being able be offensive but to be defensive, evasive, or any combo of the three to any multi layered combo of the three based on your opponents action. This is how I would say an individual actually achieves a solid relationship to positioning in combat. The best 2 training methods I have are both meant to train both of these things at once in a playful and fluid way which because play and flow states are drivers and carriers of learning and are often mutual inclusive of one another. Which backed by a large body of data from the field of neuroscience and other fields of scientific understanding as well. First exercise, extremely extremely slow sparring that has an agreed upon pace and focus such as style or whatever goal each individual wants to focus on in the movement arsenal offensive, defensive, evasive, positive before timing counter, negative during timing counter, responsive after timing counter, or neutral motion for position, evaluation or progression to achieve whatever desired effect on your opponent. So say one of the two partners is using only fists and offensive motions while evading and the other is doing some offensive motions but is mainly being defensive and using kicks footwork and distance management. Both are getting a good bit of combat play that is specific to some aspect of there arsenal being highly accentuated by both their conscious choosing but also the opponent and both get different types of the same benefits both with that and the interactivity of any kind at this show pace with rules and boundaries to move in and shift and change for yourself. You can do free form free flow as well both are phenomenal and essentially do the same things one is flow focused flow base body awareness mind muscle connection second. The other exercise is almost the same thing you just either run or do footwork drills through an area with multiple targets that are able to be in motion if you contact them. Punching bags, bobs, even ropes hanging from above will all work, a forest with small tree does as well but you must actively move even more to simulate combat. All you do is slow motion shadow combat the targets as if on a battle field, all in slow motion as stated in the sentence above. You can also have up to 3 people who are well trained or just have a fairly strict level of adherence to the rules laid out. Must go slow and aim to not hurt the underdog in the fight. Both of the less training methods are really more that methodologies that can be applied to any style and any type of exercise or expertise of combat. The basis is slow focused specifically tailored repetition of action, to give greater sensitivity to every layer of the action or strategies relative to them. Then you add to that by limiting your choices down. You can pick up the pace as you get comfortable once you have had many sessions with your opponent/s. Remember Slow and methodical reduction of variables to increase and hyper state the gains in specific areas of combat I.Q and A.Q. A.Q stands for Aptitude Quotient for those who did not know. Hope that all made sense. 😌🤙🏾 many blessings, great peace much respect and love to y’all boys.
At 12:10 he showed the front foot on the ball and said something about muay thai guys standing like that. My coach taught me the front-up stance was for moving backward, back-up stance was for moving forward and that either one is good for sideways movement.
I also think body styles, type of opponents, athletic ability and even personality traits of both the fighter and the opponent can and should dictate how someone fights. For instance I feel like Mike Tyson peek a boo is probably not an optimal style for Tyson Fury. I also feel like if you tried to make Mike Tyson primarily a defensive fighter it would not have suited his personality traits. Or someone that you know has a crazy single leg takedown maybe not standing so bladed to invite it.
This is an absolutely brilliant video..!! You will not find a more informative foot positioning trainer than this..!! You will NEVER be high level until you master stance transitioning..!! The ability to quickly change stances on demand enables so many more attack and defense options..!! This becomes especially apparent if you take something like Judo to round out your wrestling game..!! Nice to see such quality instruction passed on to those aspiring young athletes..!! I'm an old high level wrestler from the 80's (3rd Junior Olympics)..!! Back then we didn't have many cameras around for training video production..!! Fortunately, my coach was a national champ, so I was trained well..!! This video should be in everyone's library..!! Cheers..!!
the very bladed stance has several more advantages over the square one: 1. it makes it much easier to take the outside, when standing in an opposite stance (require being bi-stancual) 2. with a narrow bladed stance one can use all the back spinning strikes you can think about (elbows, back fists, kicks, hook kicks, etc.) 3. you can easily make sidesteps and not only the backwards-forwards movement. there is more, and of course it better to know using both stances on both sides, makes it quadro-stancual
Coming from a TKD background I was into the bladed stance. I think it's just the natural one you fall into almost by instinct. Bladed with the dominant foot forward. It wasn't until I found Bas Rutten that I square myself up a lot more. You can still pull off fancy kicks from the square stance, you just become less of a one sided, fencing style fighter.
You can also do a hybrid, so to speak. A lot of JKA and classic WKF/WUKO fighters (mid-90s and earlier) would have the stance practically in the square position (like a half or 3/4 forward stance and back heel up), but their torso would be half-front facing. Machida was mostly like that early in his career. Dela Hoya was kind of like that, too, when he was young. Current WKF fighters are all bladed like Wonderboy.
Great video! Interesting how you bring up that "sprinter" stance which is basically what we use during medieval German Longsword. The purpose is to be able to stay out of range until you strike forward with two hands holding the sword so the shoulders are more square.
When I teach I often say that "you punch with your legs and kick with your core." But I use that as a metaphor to make people think more about their whole body instead of standing still trying to throw punches.
Hey Mike, just watched the best weapon tier list you did with Seth like 2 years ago and you talked about helmets. Didn't see if you'd already made a video on that, but here's a story I commented on Seth's video and thought was relevant: I knew a girl in middle school who had a friend who was reluctant to go out to a club. She told him not to go. Dude went anyway, tried to calm down a fight. Someone hit him over the head with a helmet ONCE and he was dead before he hit the ground. So helmet is S-tier imo.
If you look at HEMA, mainly Fiore de'i Liberi, bc he uses a longsword and more he uses the stance shown in 12:20 and do longsword and hand to hand combat and I've learned to use a modified version of my karate stance with a square stance that's used in longsword.
You guys are great together! Looking at this from a Wing Chun perspective (I know, shut up), I'm wondering about our version of the semi bladed/squared stance. I think Mike touched on it at the end. When we move into a one leg forward, one leg back stance in WC we are always careful to keep our shoulders square. The idea being we are more mobile overall but our striking position still emphasis the typical WC idea of quick straight line strikes, no wind up, no telegraphing. Not sure how this in practical terms, would love to see you guys revisit this with that stance in mind.
Tbf depends on lineage/Wing Chun Style. But in the style that i learned the most important thing was transitioning from a neutral stance(just standing normally) into a bladed stance(If a person comes from the side) or using triangular footwork to get into a blind angle of your enemy and then pushing into him with a bladed stance(with a kick, punch, ellbow or body) But yeah we also had this sort of "your upper body `looks` to the opponent" drilled into us.
I taught from a 11 time world champion who teaches utilizing both because your foot work is 3 point or 5 point movement. Think half a star and a star. That way your ability to use angles, which will give you better distance and allow for a critical distance very quickly.
This is actually a GREAT video! I myself am a stocky not so tall guy and I had big problems fighting using a bladed (WKF Karate) stance. When I switched to Shukokai style karate (they fight mostly squared) I had an eye opening moment. Although I don’t think too square is good, I found my perfect stance by combining both and doing a little tilt in my square stance.
Wonderboy moves so fast, just in those little talking demonstrations. He's a great representative of the discipline. As a personality, he is my favorite of the MMA. But back to the point, you can tell in his movements here that he dangerously fast compared to most people doing the same thing. I really hope he gets the championship title soon..
Great and informative video! As someone with a square-as-anything Uechi alma mater that poo-pooed the WTF mobility, absolutely helpful to see the pros and cons of each stance
Great video, this is just what I was looking for. Would love more depth into defending Muay Thai stance attacks using other stances like boxing or karate.
Great video and very informational! I only train bjj and what I talk to white belts about is how to create a base regardless of what stance feels natural for them. Usually they do not realize how easy it is to off balance them and how rigid their bodies are and how easy it is to take the down. Developing the muscle strength and the mind/body connection is paramount and most people have no idea how to activate the right group of muscles at the right time to do the right thing.
Love your stuff, just wondering how much should stance depend on a person's own physicality and how that works when matching up. Looking at you and wonderboy here I would assume him doing a bladed stance with long limbs would be effective at keeping you out, how do you close the distance? How does wonderboy (or other tall fighters) effectively control your from getting inside? I was wondering if perhaps you might do a video in future exploring bistanciality (screw you spellcheck this is now a word and I won't hear otherwise)? How much time is it worth training your non-dominant side when you are bistancial? What are the pros and cons of taking this approach? When in your training lifespan should you be emphasising it? Is it better when training for fitness, combat or actual self-defence? It also would be cool to have a video looking at the different stance's pro and cons more in depth, maybe including more martial artists. Having seen boxer's who really heavily on torso movement to avoid punches get absolutely nailed by kicks would be fun to see that discussion. Cheers for all the good content
Started wtih kyokyoshin now into boxing , The krata stance felt more natural but the dojo lack sparring so i started boxing and never looked back , its choas and i love it
just wanted to say you have my approval for the bistancual, stancefluid, non-binary terms as someone who is both bisexual and non-binary, thought they were funny :)
As someone coming from good wing chun, we have a square body (lets not talk about the tight rope walking leg situation). Our guys would blade off as a shoulder roll against something overwhelming. Also anytime your centre and structure is destroyed, you need to find a way to regain control, crashing with the shoulder line with enough intention to not get your back taken is one way you could go. To yeah, "too much of anything, gets you killed" saving it for defensive and kicking purposes is something drilled into us.
If the guy is bigger and stronger. I ho bladed. But if he's more my size or smaller. I typically squar up and take the heavy offensive to end the fight as fast as possible before gassing out
I think this bladed stance from Karate might actually work really well for boxers or boxing would work really well with Karate. Boxing is very good for mastering quick left to right shifts and pivots in a bladed stance now add the kicks in from Karate or Taekwondo and your stand up is solid.
The 'I'll bully everyone in the room with me' guy meets and talks with the 'nobody will get bullied while I'm in the room' guy and they have the most productive conversation. Probably because in their individual ways they both aim at the same goals. Help people recognize and overcome their mistakes. There are many ways and one way being right does not necessarily make the other ways wrong. Just find the way that's best for you but be aware that there will be ways that won't lead to the goal you're trying to accomplish and you have to avoid getting stuck on one of those just because they appear easy and comfortable.
Go subscribe to Wonderboy at ruclips.net/user/WonderboyMMA
You have a Danaher approach to analysis but for stand up. If you don’t have a star student yet, you will. I’m calling it.
Already have been watching both of you for years now
Hey Icy Mike, my teacher, Trains us in all four of those stances plus a few variations in kickboxing and all for different uses. We do drills for each. He calls that 3rd stance “semi-squared”. I think it would be really cool if you guys got to touch on the depth each stance (if he would be interested as well).
I don't necessarily disagree with you on your last intro statement. Though it was a joking-boast, you definitely are more thoughtful in applications, and well rounded than a ton of martial artists, not to blow smoke up your skirt or anything. I'm not saying you could just dive in and be a fight champion, but as far as principals and the true underlying philosophy or physics of MA, you are pretty on point. Always more to learn. You are humble enough to absorb, but reasonable enough to discern. "A wise man learn even what he can from a fool, whereas a fool disregards instruction." Selah. Shalom. Peace & Elbow Grease!
Subbed 👍
I love the chemistry between these 2. It's like they actually want to teach us something.
Crazy, right?
Hopefully in the sequel they actually admit their feelings for each other.
@@Mike-rt2vp never! Love is war and the one that admits first is the loser. At least according to anime my brother is watching😅
It's nice to two guys not trying to alpha each other, I guess it takes practice to interview people.
You get much more in square stance when it comes to shorter hooks...also its the core and hips that deliver the power there...NOT arms
Efficiently generating power is easier to do with a stable base. The more stable, the better.
That's why I get down on all fours and pounce. My most devastating technique from this stance is the donkey kick. I once used this stance to ward off an attack.
A group of devious rapscallions masquerading as middle schoolers descended upon my position while I relaxed in the local park. Never one to relinquish advantage, I immediately lept from the bench and assumed my stance. I started howling in an attempt to demoralize them. They began backing away in an attempt to disengage. I thought I had been victorious, but they soon returned with reinforcements. The second group was comprised of significantly larger individuals, who began yelling about me "harassing," their "children."
Backed into a corner, I knew it was time to flee. I dropped into my stance and sprinted away. They did little to pursue. I assume they realized how futile a chase would have been. It's simple math, after all.
Four legs should be twice as fast as two.
lol
😂
LMAO
What are you a baki character? Hahaha
Your storytelling is as effective as you're fighting style!
Whether you’re team bladed or team squared, I think we can all come together to say thank heavens we’re not guard pullers.
I can get on board with that.
Amen
[butt scoots menacingly]
You don't get to Valhalla by pulling guard
@@ElDrHouse2010 ehrm
Judo has submissions
Also you can train Judo and BJJ together no problem
If youre sore and "overtrained" by that, so much that you *cant* .. you would be too if "Judo and BJJ were *one* again.
You just progress slower , and your progress is already slow in Judo
Also you are determined by time in which area you train
BJJ Players know they suck at standing
they know becaus they spend all time on the ground, thats why their good at it.
If they want to get good at stand up, they have to divert *time* into standing and away from ground.
I think it was a Jack Dempsey quote that really changed my outlook:
"Your stance is not a rigid structure to be maintained, but a tool to be manipulated"
Exactly.
Very roughly, the threat dictates the stance and guard, and the stance and guard enable the techniques.
Love Dempsey. Where did he say that?
@@KhaosTy it's been so long, I can't remember. I think it was from one of his books? (Also entirely possible I'm misremembering and attributing it to Dempsey)
Be like water my friend
@@ericwilkinson42 as long as I know he not say that the stance that should be manipulated, but it ballance should be manipulated to create a more force
The bladed stance is the best stance except for the times that it isn't.
I don't think another factual statement has ever been made such as this.
Alternatively it's the worst except for the times it isn't.
@Alvin undeniably one of the statements in this comment section
You guys left out all the times where comments are not, in fact, statements. Sometimes they are not and it's important that you know that. Also the square stance is best as well except for when the bladed stance is. Which is at different times.
Stances that differ from the bladed stance may in fact be the most appropriate stance for the situation
Old school karate guy (Kenpo) for over 35 years. Been training Muay Thai for almost a year. I battle with this stance issue frequently. Trying to be a good Muay Thai student but once I start getting tagged in sparring, I revert back to more of a bladed stance. Trying not to be douchey in sparring. I want to try it their way. It’s challenging for me when the stress is on.
You're actually going to sharpen your new tools on people who are less skilled than you. The less of those people in your gym there are, the longer this will take. When you go with more skilled partners, you will resort to things you are comfortable with and have a history of success with when pressured. When you go with less skilled partners you can do pretty much whatever you want, so you can practice the new stuff.
@@hard2hurt Mikey Musumeci (one of the best grapplers in the world) only trains with hobbyist BJJ players. Blew my mind. He trains with regular joes and then taps top BJJ players in the world.
I totally get you there. Over a decade of karate under my belt but I’m trying to branch out and learn other ways of striking to round myself out.
Forcing myself to square up and stand and bang is super difficult to do. I’m constantly fighting the instinct to revert to bladed and stance and more linear in and out footwork.
@Andrew Yeah, I figured he would get some good mat time with top players, but he said pretty clearly that he only rolls with hobbyists. He also said he works out of his garage, and so I suppose he handpicks who gets to train with him.
I've learned Taekwondo in my youth and transitioned to boxing and Muay Thai. Had problems at first but now I can actually utilize crazy steps and kicks and switches im Muay Thai. And I'm a big tall fella. So I really profited from that. As for Taekwondo alone, it's not too useful outside of Taekwondo and a brawl against a total newb.
Wonderboy is the nicest UFC fighter. Great teacher.
My dog does the back stance, I fall for the belly rub feint all the time 🐶🐶🐶
He gets you right where he wants you.
Hilarious :-)
Guard pulled 😔
You standing next to wonderboy really put wonderboy’s size and stature into perspective. He’s a beast
Umm... or maybe it puts mine in perspective?
“Your opponent determines how you fight.” So many people do not understand this. You can have a “style” or game plan, but depending on the situation and opponent/attacker, you will have to adjust and adapt accordingly. So at least be comfortable in multiple styles, stances, etc. Great video!
Dominick Cruz
You also need to be able to assert and dictate the fight as well, I'm not saying the point is wrong, but that it can sometimes lead your mindset to be biased to always be on the defensive if you are only reactive and not proactive.
At the end of the day, someone's always leading the dance, a reaction only exists when there is something being asserted after all, because the same could be said for both parties. As the saying goes, offense is the best defence.
You're just trying to make sure that it's you more times than not, as much as possible.
@@xanferthehaunted9788 100% agree with this. But even when on the offensive you still have to adapt your stance or style depending on the situation and opponent
This is the reason I trained in tae kickboxing. Being pure tae kwon do, my hand game was crap. I never lost any backyard fights, but I got my bell rung a few times. Take kwon do is a bladed stance, tae kickboxing is a squared stance. Learning a bit of jiu jutsu helped round me out also.
@Chris Waters that's a giant oversimplification
Excellent high-level content from one of the world's greatest martial artists ... and hard2hurt
stance is a social construct, there are infinite stances
Stealing that.
@@hard2hurt feel free ,
Awesome stuff 🙂 I'm a HEMA student, and I know that I'm on square stance when the reach is almost equal on both hands. That when using a two handed weapon (like longsword) or two weapons combo (sword and buckler/shield). For a one handed weapons like rapier or saber, then a "bladed" stance will make you a bit smaller target! Messer is an exception for this rule (I'm not sure why, maybe just tradition). But thanks for the awesome content, as usual 😊
At least in my school, the reason the messer is an exception is because there's *so* much grappling in most messer systems. Being squared up, whichever foot is forward, means that you can bring your other hand into play for grappling much easier than if you were in a bladed stance.
@@someirishkid9241 Well said! Thanks for your answer!! 😊
@@husam-al-din-baybars no problem! Always nice to see a fellow HEMA person :)
@@someirishkid9241 that's correct, and messer itself is taught as a subset of longsword techniques and strategy as well, including passing footwork vs. gathering footwork (which makes a much bigger difference than stance itself)
@@urbanarmory oh, you're right! I had forgotten about that connection. I suppose it makes sense, since Lecküchner and the like lived in a time when German longsword traditions were still going strong.
5:00 fighting against different stances. Important
7:05 predicting and countering
8:20 Max holloway
One thing that made my understanding of stances deeper is that stances are always in relation to your opponent. If your opponent moves laterally, your stance will change. You will be more squared up, more bladed, or even switch to southpaw/orthodox if your opponent moves around you. So if you only fight bladed, there will be situations in your fight that your only move will be to get back to your preferred stance.
Very good comment thank you for sharing :-)
I like to see mike how hi level he has become and how many people he has helped
You helped me get here, my friend!
Thanks for breaking down the stance binary Mike! The part about sprinters' stance with the back heel up is very similar to our jkd stance for that exact reason...and when I get tired and lazy I revert to Muay Thai stance 🙃
I'm definitely tired or trying not to get tired if I'm in a MT stance.
Willow -- Yes on the JKD back-heel-up! It comes from Bruce Lee's fascination with fencing which is all about explosive movement forward. That's where the interception comes from. I do the same thing when I need a break in a fight -- weight goes back and there's a lot less straight lead/pak sao and a lot more teep.
I really appreciate the way he says in the first 30 seconds that he doesn't try to change them from what they know because I did bjj for over a year before I did wrestling and during drilling I had my left foot forward like how I normally have for my stance and he said to change it to right foot forward since that is how he is showing us to wrestle
That last stance at 11:40 looked alot like Bas Rutten's stance. And he really made it work.
The best stance is a fluid stance. There is always a weakness and strength in a certain stance. Countering your opponent is the best stance, learning to be fluid to do that takes tons of time!
The "zing" stance is a very slept on stance. Especially using fast front thrust and checks.
For me I switch it up, if I’m at distance I will use more of a bladed stance, but if the inside I naturally become more square. I started in boxing and that’s how I was trained
I have 3 stances depending on how I'm fighting. I teach bladed for kicking and long range, more square/orthodox kick boxing if they are more of a boxer, and square parallel stance if they are gonna grapple. Each stance has an advantage and disadvantage.
I thought square stances r better for kicking plus checking and boxing is more bladed but i use squared most the time for equal power in my hands and so i can have a good lead hook
I really dig this breakdown because being forced to do everything exactly how you’re told was always the thing with traditional martial arts that bothered me. I get why but it’s still annoying.
tbf, i think the maxim of “you need to know the rules to break them” is often totally legit. there are things that are good basics to learn as a firm base that you then use to develop other stuff. if you just go in shifting your stance, you probably wont have a good base.
but i dont do traditional martial arts, just something ive apreciated in general when it comes to different disciplines. martial arts, drawing, music, writing, etc.
just like in drawing getting a firm grasp of perspective and proportions can the. let you bend those rules in well founded ways that arent janky.
@@midshipman8654 And also some things just don't work depending on your sport. If you try to have too bladed a stance in pure Muay Thai it's just not suited for the sport. If you're a freak standout you might be able to make it work anyway, but it's just like trying low percentage stuff in BJJ, Judo, or Greco Roman/Olympic wrestling. You can do it if you want, but you're not giving yourself good chances from the outset. In boxing a more bladed stance works fine, though still not too bladed. In Muay Thai you're just setting yourself up for failure.
It's not bad, but different sports require different kinds of optimization of stance and footwork.
This is great, love seeing fundamental analysis of postures 👍✌️
Absolutely :-)
Thanks for this video. There are a lot of teachers out there saying "my way is a lot better", "the other ways suck". It's very nice to see open mindness in martial arts and combat sports.
It would be interesting to see Wonderboy and Izzy discuss this stuff, and also point out the Sanda stance, which is somewhat in between a lot of the time. I actually noticed that when I started training Sanda I started switching stances naturally, and I think it's because of how it's somewhat in the middle of both square and bladed
I liked the point about sprinters.
You will often find the same logic in weapons based martial arts, like Kendo, where many considerations in this video just don't mean as much as taking the first step and being the first one to reach the other guy - because you might be okay with taking a fist to the torso … a sword tip, not so much.
That stance that he showed at the end looks a lot like Kendo. Even the drop foot thing he showed looks somewhat similar to a fumikomi stamp that is used a lot in Kendo.
One note on having the bladed stance vs leg kicks. While your leg is closer to them which makes it easier to leg kick… your leg is closer to them. Making it easier to kick them too. A common way I deal with kicks in Muay Thai, which is known for its tall, bladed stance most fighters have, is by putting a teep in there as or before they throw that leg kick, and the teep will win if timed correctly. Not only that but when they’re balancing on one leg to throw that kick it makes that teep more effective. For all the Karate and TKD folks, as well as the boxers wanting to make use of more kicks, a side kick from that stance can very quickly be used to beat them to the (kick) punch, like using a jab to stop someone from coming in with a lead hook in boxing.
This also transfers over to pistol craft. Weaver Stance (Bladed) Vs Modified Isosceles (Square). Being a student of Kenpo, whose primary stance is the Neutral Bow (Bladed) one can transition to the pistol using the Weaver without changing stance.
100% agree. Great video. Smart, nuanced, and to the point as always.
One of the things I practice/teach is "melting" from a more bladed/extended stance to a square/compact stance as you close range (and vice versa). One of the first drills we do is just circling and closing/separating without doing anything but adjusting your stance and feeling range.
One of the things I teach is that you have to a "theory of victory" -- what do you think is the likeliest way that you are going to win? -- and then optimize yourself around that. Wonderboy's theory of victory begins with the sidekick in space (which of course he is phenomenal at), so he optimizes his stance for it -- that's why he's so extremely bladed. But that also has ramifications for all the other factors in stance -- hand position, toes/flag, weight forward/back, etc.
That melting concept is one of my favorites!💪
Mad respect to Icy Mike for coming out as Non-Binary. Some ppl just feel comfortable in both stances. No judgment.
The square stance you used that was compared to a sprinter's starting position, is what I use from a karate background! The video you made on the false lead is really what put it together for me though.
If I want to launch my right hand before either switching, throwing either a thrusting front kick or a low kick, or to widen out and do a combo that takes angles in the pocket Ill use that punch. I always loved that false lead video you did, I think it was really the key to me putting my Kyokushinkai background and long-movements from my shotokan background together with much more fluidity.
Before that I was either using Goju Ryu or Uechi Ryu as a middleman, or relying on my wrestling and judo to close the gap. Having a less commited offensive option that has the power of my rear hand without sacrificing mobility, give up my offensive pressure, kicking, or HAVING to grapple felt REALLY good.
Big thank you for that. Prior to that video I only used that stance defensively or for switching my stance and throwing a powerful kick with either leg to cover the switch. I was racking my head trying to come up with a solution, but I was over-thinking it. A dropstep and the footwork for oi-zuki really were the best solution. Felt right immediately since a Karate background is all about using stances as movement to take a constantly advantaged position.
Great vid as always man.
I loved every word of this video. A friend recommended Stephen as a UFA/MMA fighter with similar style to mine. From now on, when someone asks, this video will be the first thing I show them. Awesome stuff!
The amount of content, and golden nuggets of information being dropped within 13-14 minutes is outstanding. Excellent video.
Really loving these collabs with Wonderboy
Thanks for confirming what my new kickboxing coach has been telling me. I've always been a real squared up fighter. But I'm learning to be able to change stances as dictated by my opponent.
Literally the only 3 channels I watch in no particular order Hard2Hurt-Wonderboy-MmaShredded⛽🔥🔥🔥
Wonderboy is awesome
If you watch "El guapo" he can uses the squared stance and uses counter strikes a lot. Since I got that explanation I prefer the squared stance. If your willing to take some blows sometimes it can be devastating for the opponent. Most of the times they aren't expecting a quick follow up when your taking the hit with a counter and follow through.
Bas gets taken down at will though. He's never been good at Takedown defense. There's always a price to pay. Use it in thai/kickboxinf and you'll be fine tho
Bas is kinda obsolete now. He straight up used to believe jabs were not a worthwhile punch- honestly that should tell you that times have changed.
Thank you for this. Im starting martial arts from doing fencing in the past and been trying to understand stances in MMA. This is tremendously helpful and makes sense.
The Cat Stance is the most deadly stance ever. I once did my deadly Cat Stance, when this Army Ranger came right at me (during sparring), and I yelled out, "KIAI!" He literally died........with laughter..
i trained at AKA and they would teach you to keep your front knee always pointed at your opponent, the squared stance allows for leg checking while bladed stance leaves you vulnerable to low kicks
Better for avoiding takedowns also
4:24 It's called not limiting your movements to move from one place to another. Sometimes you need to change your position to move to different directions.
Finally a commentary on stances that aligns with the 2022 "all stances matter" narrative
I remember an instructor I used to have used to tell me to stop switching between stances. He said I had a kicking stance and a punching stance. He said it made me easier to read.
I would argue that I had a stance that favored kicking and a stance that favored punching. I just looked at it as, depending on who I was sparring and what I wanted to work on, I used different stances to work on different tools and tactics.
This was great to see other people see the value in using different stances for diffrent tools and tactics.
This is the most informative video I have ever seen about stances and about their weakness. All the others just beat around the bush you sir were on point.
Thank you , i loved every single thing said in this video !! you can judge from my name but i'm a muay thai guy , and ive often been told that i was to wide on my base , but people just wont understand that it allows me to be so much more mobile and fast ! im a pretty thin guy so blocking isn't my forte i often rely on parries and evading and being just a little more able to move is perfect for me to get out of the way !
Square stance is also a world on it's own. There is a school of Thaiboxing where they are heavy on the back foot and light on the front foot for blocking and teeping, and another school that has more of front heavy load distribution with your back foot on your toes and heel up, ready for blitz fast middle kicking action and knees.
I wish i was good at any of those. 🥲
Wonderboy is the GOAT. I think it was ghandhi that once said " a man who flings a poo must learn to also catch it ". nice work fellas! keep on rocking.
Bro i was straight up in the backroom at work doing footwork drills trying to figure out a good middle ground inbetwen my karate and the mma stance my coach has me us.
God bless ya my mans
I just love the way a super athlete carry themselves. Effortless confidence
Square is better for back hand strikes, hooks and uppercuts. Bladed is better for in and out, footwork, jab and lead hooks. I think you should train both and it depends if youre long range or short range. It also depends whether you are a pure boxing fighter or cross trains mma or muay thai/kickboxing
When we are square. Heal toe alignment is to the center left and center right flank's. Attacking from angles? Layers of attack. Layers of defense?
Awesome video sir!
One thing I did wanna add; in square stance, your Hooks have TREMENDOUSLY greater power than hooks from a bladed stance(well, besides rear hooks from a bladed stance which have the most power of all) provided you do the technique's right and have a bit of mass on you(not that much is required though; you can weigh like 150-160lbs and still have devastating hooks from a squared stance), and hooks are my main form of dealing damage when I fight or spar - my other punches are mostly setup punches, not always, but mostly. I've dropped or stunned so many dudes with simple lead left hooks from my square stance, even stand-alone left hooks; or in 2 or 3 punch combos. When I punch someones body in my square stance, I DO actually load up(and take the proper precautions and feints so I can actually land it...and considering most of my punches are going for the guys head, thats usually not even necessary and my loaded body shots land anyway cause they just assume I'm gonna bomb on their head even with obviously loaded shots, which I dont do cause its too predictable and too easy to dodge and frankly I dont wanna hit my sparring partners THAT hard in the head with a loaded up shot that was meant for their body; my non-loaded hooks from square stance can drop them just fine already I dont wanna imagine what a loaded up hook would do to them even through headgear). Of course its different in fights. Street fights included. Last time some scumbag attacked me on the street I won the fight by, after recovering from the sucker punch from behind that the dude started the fight with, I roundhouse kicked him in the side of the gut(the dude was literally trying to copy my stance after I had recovered from his sucker punch...but he had no idea how to actually fight, how to actually USE my stance so it didnt really help him at all though honestly nothing would've helped him at that point), then knocked him out cold with a step in loaded right hook to the side of his head. He dropped so fast it was incredible, right on his butt, and just stayed there. He tried getting up, but his legs shook and wobbled and he fell back down on his butt, and just covered his face and basically gave up after that.
Going back to what I said before though: as long as you have sufficient technique and sufficient weight, your hooks from square stance can be devastating, AND you can throw them fairly quickly, even ones with power behind them provided you land on them(missing a power shot puts you out of position for an immediate follow up though esp if its fully loaded up). I'm a puncher and low kicker kind of fighter so square stance is perfect for my muay thai style. I also love the versatility of kicks and kick defense(and clinching) that comes with the square stance; and I feel much more balanced, at ease, and safe while in my square stance since I know all the correct ways to block incoming blows from that stance and immediately counter. However. It GREATLY limits the range of your jab compared to a bladed stance jab; and same with your cross(and rear hook). Bladed stance you can throw those much harder. But its harder to land.
Gabriel Varga, that guy's fighting style, is by far the one that's most similar to mine, so is Joseph Valtellini's style. Its cause I partially based my own stance on theirs. Well its more like I already was fighting this way and found out about them and used their videos and fight footage to fine tune my own square stance to be more like their's and I have had great success doing that. I prefer blocking over other kinds of defense too and square stance is best at this. I value stability, square stance gives this in spades. You move slower but you are firm, and you can easily march someone down while blocking or parrying their blows and landing on them.
I've been using a square stance as my main style for muay thai(and boxing) for the last 7 years or so(the time I've been training muay thai), and Ive only been developing my bladed stance for the past 1 year or 1 year and 6 months or so, so there's quite a difference in my experience level between the two styles. But I do use both in all my fights and spars and matches. Even in drilling. Just not fully comfortable using my bladed stance, esp against guys that are really good. I always default to my square stance in those fights. Use both imo. But make sure that one of those stances is your "main".
Im gonna save this, at my krav maga club, They always Force us to use the blade stance, but I swear I feel so much better and stronger in the square stance.
Man, some great stuff from one of the best Martial Artists on RUclips. Plus Wonderboy 🤣
Great stuff - I learned a lot about the bladed stance.
Ngl the joke at the start made me laugh so hard i hit the subscribe button 🙏😂
I got to meet Wonderboy a week ago at his gym. I fanboy'd so hard on him. Got an awesome pic with him. Every bit as nice in person. Awesome guy.
I love wonder boy standing wide in the first shot so they can both be in the frame ~
That's literally what we were talking about before we started rolling lol.
One of my favorites. Funny af and informative.
TY for these videos. lots of insight
I like what Wonderboy said at the end about having to work at it to get the stances to function properly.
Traditional forms helped me immensely in that regard with using stances.
Nicely done. You guys addressed a bunch of points that I think many people including well trained professionals could use in their brain diet. I would just add that not only is stance fluid but as you and Wonder Boy sort of spoke to, for you to become truly exceptional in your stance of choice you should train to have your offensive motions flow with/into/outof your main stance into others and back rapidly while in motion and not only being able be offensive but to be defensive, evasive, or any combo of the three to any multi layered combo of the three based on your opponents action. This is how I would say an individual actually achieves a solid relationship to positioning in combat. The best 2 training methods I have are both meant to train both of these things at once in a playful and fluid way which because play and flow states are drivers and carriers of learning and are often mutual inclusive of one another. Which backed by a large body of data from the field of neuroscience and other fields of scientific understanding as well. First exercise, extremely extremely slow sparring that has an agreed upon pace and focus such as style or whatever goal each individual wants to focus on in the movement arsenal offensive, defensive, evasive, positive before timing counter, negative during timing counter, responsive after timing counter, or neutral motion for position, evaluation or progression to achieve whatever desired effect on your opponent. So say one of the two partners is using only fists and offensive motions while evading and the other is doing some offensive motions but is mainly being defensive and using kicks footwork and distance management. Both are getting a good bit of combat play that is specific to some aspect of there arsenal being highly accentuated by both their conscious choosing but also the opponent and both get different types of the same benefits both with that and the interactivity of any kind at this show pace with rules and boundaries to move in and shift and change for yourself. You can do free form free flow as well both are phenomenal and essentially do the same things one is flow focused flow base body awareness mind muscle connection second. The other exercise is almost the same thing you just either run or do footwork drills through an area with multiple targets that are able to be in motion if you contact them. Punching bags, bobs, even ropes hanging from above will all work, a forest with small tree does as well but you must actively move even more to simulate combat. All you do is slow motion shadow combat the targets as if on a battle field, all in slow motion as stated in the sentence above. You can also have up to 3 people who are well trained or just have a fairly strict level of adherence to the rules laid out. Must go slow and aim to not hurt the underdog in the fight. Both of the less training methods are really more that methodologies that can be applied to any style and any type of exercise or expertise of combat. The basis is slow focused specifically tailored repetition of action, to give greater sensitivity to every layer of the action or strategies relative to them. Then you add to that by limiting your choices down. You can pick up the pace as you get comfortable once you have had many sessions with your opponent/s. Remember Slow and methodical reduction of variables to increase and hyper state the gains in specific areas of combat I.Q and A.Q. A.Q stands for Aptitude Quotient for those who did not know. Hope that all made sense.
😌🤙🏾 many blessings, great peace much respect and love to y’all boys.
At 12:10 he showed the front foot on the ball and said something about muay thai guys standing like that. My coach taught me the front-up stance was for moving backward, back-up stance was for moving forward and that either one is good for sideways movement.
WONDERBOY THE GOAT
I also think body styles, type of opponents, athletic ability and even personality traits of both the fighter and the opponent can and should dictate how someone fights. For instance I feel like Mike Tyson peek a boo is probably not an optimal style for Tyson Fury. I also feel like if you tried to make Mike Tyson primarily a defensive fighter it would not have suited his personality traits. Or someone that you know has a crazy single leg takedown maybe not standing so bladed to invite it.
Any deviation from a Square is a 'Wrecked Angle' 😂
This is an absolutely brilliant video..!! You will not find a more informative foot positioning trainer than this..!! You will NEVER be high level until you master stance transitioning..!! The ability to quickly change stances on demand enables so many more attack and defense options..!! This becomes especially apparent if you take something like Judo to round out your wrestling game..!! Nice to see such quality instruction passed on to those aspiring young athletes..!! I'm an old high level wrestler from the 80's (3rd Junior Olympics)..!! Back then we didn't have many cameras around for training video production..!! Fortunately, my coach was a national champ, so I was trained well..!! This video should be in everyone's library..!! Cheers..!!
Would be great to see you guys do technical discussion videos like this with Gabriel Varga when he visits Wonderboy's dojo.
the very bladed stance has several more advantages over the square one:
1. it makes it much easier to take the outside, when standing in an opposite stance (require being bi-stancual)
2. with a narrow bladed stance one can use all the back spinning strikes you can think about (elbows, back fists, kicks, hook kicks, etc.)
3. you can easily make sidesteps and not only the backwards-forwards movement.
there is more,
and of course it better to know using both stances on both sides, makes it quadro-stancual
Love this take on stances, I left one of the gyms I trained at because the coach was so anti bladed stance.
As a beginner in MMA I really notice the more you know the more you realise don't know; this is fascinating man...
Coming from a TKD background I was into the bladed stance. I think it's just the natural one you fall into almost by instinct. Bladed with the dominant foot forward.
It wasn't until I found Bas Rutten that I square myself up a lot more. You can still pull off fancy kicks from the square stance, you just become less of a one sided, fencing style fighter.
@@slutrepellant Yeah, JKD takes a sort of fencing approach wherein you use a dominant hand/foot forward bladed stance
You can also do a hybrid, so to speak. A lot of JKA and classic WKF/WUKO fighters (mid-90s and earlier) would have the stance practically in the square position (like a half or 3/4 forward stance and back heel up), but their torso would be half-front facing. Machida was mostly like that early in his career. Dela Hoya was kind of like that, too, when he was young. Current WKF fighters are all bladed like Wonderboy.
Great video! Interesting how you bring up that "sprinter" stance which is basically what we use during medieval German Longsword. The purpose is to be able to stay out of range until you strike forward with two hands holding the sword so the shoulders are more square.
Whoaaa Wonderboy👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
When I teach I often say that "you punch with your legs and kick with your core." But I use that as a metaphor to make people think more about their whole body instead of standing still trying to throw punches.
Hey Mike, just watched the best weapon tier list you did with Seth like 2 years ago and you talked about helmets. Didn't see if you'd already made a video on that, but here's a story I commented on Seth's video and thought was relevant:
I knew a girl in middle school who had a friend who was reluctant to go out to a club. She told him not to go. Dude went anyway, tried to calm down a fight. Someone hit him over the head with a helmet ONCE and he was dead before he hit the ground. So helmet is S-tier imo.
Wonderboy is a goddamn treasure. Loved this collab!
If you look at HEMA, mainly Fiore de'i Liberi, bc he uses a longsword and more he uses the stance shown in 12:20 and do longsword and hand to hand combat and I've learned to use a modified version of my karate stance with a square stance that's used in longsword.
You guys are great together! Looking at this from a Wing Chun perspective (I know, shut up), I'm wondering about our version of the semi bladed/squared stance. I think Mike touched on it at the end. When we move into a one leg forward, one leg back stance in WC we are always careful to keep our shoulders square. The idea being we are more mobile overall but our striking position still emphasis the typical WC idea of quick straight line strikes, no wind up, no telegraphing. Not sure how this in practical terms, would love to see you guys revisit this with that stance in mind.
Tbf depends on lineage/Wing Chun Style. But in the style that i learned the most important thing was transitioning from a neutral stance(just standing normally) into a bladed stance(If a person comes from the side) or using triangular footwork to get into a blind angle of your enemy and then pushing into him with a bladed stance(with a kick, punch, ellbow or body) But yeah we also had this sort of "your upper body `looks` to the opponent" drilled into us.
I taught from a 11 time world champion who teaches utilizing both because your foot work is 3 point or 5 point movement. Think half a star and a star. That way your ability to use angles, which will give you better distance and allow for a critical distance very quickly.
This is actually a GREAT video! I myself am a stocky not so tall guy and I had big problems fighting using a bladed (WKF Karate) stance. When I switched to Shukokai style karate (they fight mostly squared) I had an eye opening moment. Although I don’t think too square is good, I found my perfect stance by combining both and doing a little tilt in my square stance.
Wonderboy moves so fast, just in those little talking demonstrations. He's a great representative of the discipline. As a personality, he is my favorite of the MMA. But back to the point, you can tell in his movements here that he dangerously fast compared to most people doing the same thing. I really hope he gets the championship title soon..
I like Stephen he has positive energies
Great and informative video! As someone with a square-as-anything Uechi alma mater that poo-pooed the WTF mobility, absolutely helpful to see the pros and cons of each stance
Dan Hooker stands in that 'sprinter's stance', it allows him to throw knees up the middle as well as walk people down
Great video, this is just what I was looking for. Would love more depth into defending Muay Thai stance attacks using other stances like boxing or karate.
Great video and very informational!
I only train bjj and what I talk to white belts about is how to create a base regardless of what stance feels natural for them. Usually they do not realize how easy it is to off balance them and how rigid their bodies are and how easy it is to take the down. Developing the muscle strength and the mind/body connection is paramount and most people have no idea how to activate the right group of muscles at the right time to do the right thing.
Nice collaboration. I enjoy watching both your channels. Would love to see more of this.
Love your stuff, just wondering how much should stance depend on a person's own physicality and how that works when matching up. Looking at you and wonderboy here I would assume him doing a bladed stance with long limbs would be effective at keeping you out, how do you close the distance? How does wonderboy (or other tall fighters) effectively control your from getting inside?
I was wondering if perhaps you might do a video in future exploring bistanciality (screw you spellcheck this is now a word and I won't hear otherwise)?
How much time is it worth training your non-dominant side when you are bistancial? What are the pros and cons of taking this approach? When in your training lifespan should you be emphasising it? Is it better when training for fitness, combat or actual self-defence?
It also would be cool to have a video looking at the different stance's pro and cons more in depth, maybe including more martial artists. Having seen boxer's who really heavily on torso movement to avoid punches get absolutely nailed by kicks would be fun to see that discussion.
Cheers for all the good content
Right Right, he seems like a great guy. Doesn’t like to cus good for the kids always root for him.
Wonderful explanations. I’m excited to move to the area and train there.
Started wtih kyokyoshin now into boxing , The krata stance felt more natural but the dojo lack sparring so i started boxing and never looked back , its choas and i love it
just wanted to say you have my approval for the bistancual, stancefluid, non-binary terms as someone who is both bisexual and non-binary, thought they were funny :)
🤢
Stance is a spectrum.
ayyy, fellow LGBT!
As someone coming from good wing chun, we have a square body (lets not talk about the tight rope walking leg situation). Our guys would blade off as a shoulder roll against something overwhelming. Also anytime your centre and structure is destroyed, you need to find a way to regain control, crashing with the shoulder line with enough intention to not get your back taken is one way you could go. To yeah, "too much of anything, gets you killed" saving it for defensive and kicking purposes is something drilled into us.
If the guy is bigger and stronger. I ho bladed. But if he's more my size or smaller. I typically squar up and take the heavy offensive to end the fight as fast as possible before gassing out
I think this bladed stance from Karate might actually work really well for boxers or boxing would work really well with Karate. Boxing is very good for mastering quick left to right shifts and pivots in a bladed stance now add the kicks in from Karate or Taekwondo and your stand up is solid.
The 'I'll bully everyone in the room with me' guy meets and talks with the 'nobody will get bullied while I'm in the room' guy and they have the most productive conversation. Probably because in their individual ways they both aim at the same goals. Help people recognize and overcome their mistakes. There are many ways and one way being right does not necessarily make the other ways wrong. Just find the way that's best for you but be aware that there will be ways that won't lead to the goal you're trying to accomplish and you have to avoid getting stuck on one of those just because they appear easy and comfortable.