DIY House Almost Caught Fire! | ØY32
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2023
- AFDD’s ( Arc Fault Detection Devices ) are a hot tooic right now. Massive waste of money, or a potential home and life saver?
That naughty little torch 🔦 - unilite.co.uk/product/il-925r...
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Nice balance of entertainment and practical stuff. Can’t unsee Morrissey now.
Don't watch The Killer then 🤣
Cemetery Gates
I think in reality it is only in very rare and unlucky cases that electrical wiring faults end up in a burnt down house. I'm sure there are millions of houses with loosely shoved in wires, corroded carbonised joints, closely sitting bare wires and connections, and yet the electrons know to behave themselves. Although a few electronics have travelled down the back of my legs at times. Go figure.
I agree. Dad is a retired electrician and our house had a breaker with a high pitched noise when load was been applied for many years. He tested it, measured the temperature and was like "Yeah, it's just edging on the tripping point. No harm done!"
Rust on cables does not necessarily mean water. When PVC wire melts/burns, the hydrochloric acid released corrodes everything.
keeping it raw and real makes it feel very human, good job Cory and team :).
You are allowed up to one (dual) spur circuit off of any connected point on the ring (including at the CU). You can have an indefinite number if daisy-chained from a suitable fuse or breaker.
Incidentally, the standards for wiring for the BS1363 socket/plug were defined just after the end of WW II, and it was not a copper shortage during the war that was the issue, but in the intense period of rebuilding after the war. It was reckoned that using ring circuits saved about 30% of the copper compared to the previous practice of radials only. The fuse in the plug concept cam about because the developers of the standard wanted to maintain the same level of protection of small appliances and flexible cord that there was with the round-pin standard which had dedicated plugs and circuits for 3A, 5A and 15A plugs, with circuit fusing to match, and have the convenience and flexibility of a single plug type and being able to plug any device in anywhere.
As for spur sockets, then you can have one double socket on a spur from any one connection point in the ring (usually another socket). As the double socket can only have two 13A plugs, then that's a theoretical 26A, which is (just) within the rating of 2.5mm^2 T&E. However, what a lot of people don't know is that the British Standard does not specify that a double socket has to be able to deliver 2 x 13A loads on an indefinite basis. From memory, it's 20A for 4 hours without the temperature rising to harmful levels.
Love or hate rings, being able to plug up to 3kW loads into circuits that can deliver over 7kW is very useful in avoiding nuisance trips in high power draw areas from plug-in devices, like kitchens (and you can still have 32 kW circuits on 4mm^2). The standard also arose in an era before central heating was common, and the use of portable electric heaters about the house might be expected.
Incidentally, I believe that major fixed electrical wiring infrastructure fires are relatively rare in the UK. Most electrical fires are due to appliances, often through misuse. I have a secondary bit of evidence, from the insurance companies, who are normally wide awake to risk factors. I don't ever recall being asked on an application form any questions about the state of the infrastructure wiring or its age when applying for building insurance. It's also very cheap (at least for me). The building insurance for my half million pounds plus house was £160. I suspect that if the insurance companies were paying out for a lot of houses burnt down through infrastructure wiring faults they'd have included questions about that, when it was last inspected and so on in the application forms.
Very good points.
I remember my granny replacing a light bulb with a double adapter, the bulb went back in one socket, and an electric iron in t'other. 😂 Happy days.
A friend a few years back bought a one bedroom flat in London, costing a fortune of course. He was stuck for money renovating the place. He focused on the bathroom and kitchen to spend. I told him he could cuts costs on the electrical system. I explained.
Have *two* circuits with a very small and cheap Consumer Unit box. One circuit serving a 4mm ring and one 1.00mm lighting. Heating and hot water was a gas combi. I said Induction hobs are now available with 13A plugs. Ovens now have integrated microwaves (saving worktop space) being 3kW maximum. He was to have a dishwasher and washing washing.
So, the ring to have
▪ The induction hob (3kW) and oven (3kW) off 13A fused spurs in adjacent cupboards.
▪ Dishwasher (2.2kW) and washing machine (2.5kW) off 13A sockets in adjacent cupboards.
▪ The ring fed four heavyish current drawing appliances plus an electric kettle. The rest was TV, computer, combi and phone charging.
▪ The 4mm was if the cable was cut for any reason the 32A breaker would protect the two cable legs and also if any imbalance on the ring.
▪ The ring was a distributed busbar.
The likelihood that all four appliances would ever be on full power at the same time was extremely slim (diversity). He bought a reel of 4mm cable on a good deal as well.
I suggested at least an RCBO, but an AFDD on the ring with an RCBO on lighting would be far better. He went for the AFDD costing about £55 over the RCBO.
Works a treat. Very safe. Never had any problems. It never costed a fortune - saving quite a lot of money. Look at the Continental main boards in one and two bedroom flats - huge and full of radial circuits. Looks like what you may have in a small school. Unnecessary.
OK that was one of the better explanations of a ring circuit I have heard in a video. I was very curious a few years back and went through Wikipedia and sleepless nights feeding my Electrical addiction.
Ring circuits have been widespread in the UK for 75 years. They have been found to be *very safe.* The British G Type fuse-in-plug was to protect appliance flexes, however became an _enabler_ to use final ring circuits. The final ring circuit is ingenious in its simplicity.
When used with the British G Type plug the ring is a busbar run around the house with distributed fuses at each appliance. There are many *advantages* to rings:
▪ Cheapness, as smaller easier to install wires can be used;
▪ A large number of sockets can be off one cheap to install ring;
▪ Having the same number of sockets using radials would mean multiple radials and multiple extra breakers at the main panel. Far more cable, expense, labour and hassle;
▪ The 32A breaker and 13A fuse in the plug ensures safety;
▪ Portable plug-in appliances on a ring cannot exceed approx 3kW. Some plug-in ovens are on rings; Rings usually have a 32A breaker at the main panel - can be a lower value;
▪ Using push-fit *maintenance free* Wago type connectors to connect up the ring adds safety, as not being screwed connections they do not work loose. The ring's current does not run through the socket terminals (this applies to radials); ▪ The British plugs enable rings having a _max_ 13A fuse in them - can be as low as a 1A fuse in the plug to suit the appliance and flex/cable. Small flex and appliance? Then a smaller fuse;
▪ Rings in the UK are limited by square metres of floor space, with no limit to the number of sockets on the ring. 100 square metres of floor space with 2.5mm cable for a 32 amp final ring. The cable can be 4mm, which is advisable in an unbalanced ring drawing high current loads; Less voltage drop on long cable lengths as voltage comes from two ways;
▪ Two ways for the earth wire back to the main panel, increasing safety levels.
Radials are also used in the UK. Rings are not mandatory, but used because they have proved to be generally trouble free and safe. They can be installed using *rule-of-thumb.* These days a ring will be on an RCD, RCBO or AFDD - these now are becoming DP, so safer again. AFDDs are now mandatory in some socket installations and _recommended_ in all installations. AFDDs raise the safety level. If an office wants more socket outlets for extra desk computers. It is a simple matter of extending the existing ring with the extra sockets as the current draw is low. Cheap and easy. If radials are used many radial circuits would be needed, which may mean an extra consumer unit, breakers, wire etc, then far more labour.
Some *disadvantages* are:
▪ Rings are more difficult to fault find. But electricians have no problem once the ring is fully understood. The ring can be split at a socket then tested as two radials;
▪ Another is that if a number of high current drawing appliances are on one side of the ring, say nearer to the main panel, most of the current draw may be down one cable leg of the ring with the cable rated below the main 32A breaker. An unbalanced ring. 2.5mm cable is rated at 27A max. Although tests have proven the cables do not exceed their current capacity in the vast majority of cases, just an imbalance in distribution of the two cables from the main panel (consumer unit). *Good circuit design will prevent this, negating this* *_disadvantage._* Balanced rings can be installed by daisy chaining to _alternative_ socket outlets on the ring. That is the first appliance will draw from one side of the ring, the second socket will draw from the other side, and so on round-robin. Or use 4mm cable to the point where heavy current drawing appliances are, then 2.5mm for the rest, if it is that troubling for some. Using 4mm cable on one side of a ring and 2.5mm on the other, is still cheaper than a bunch of radial circuits.
Overall one ring is superior to a bunch of radials needing their own breakers at the main panel. They are simpler, cheaper, being proven to be safe and worked well over the past 75 years. Using the new AFDDs on rings, which are _recommended_ and mandatory on some installations, gives a *far higher* safety level.
You will have to give a very convincing argument against rings. I have not heard of one yet.
I liked the "before" lights better the flat wafer LEDs are really nice in my opinion.
Great video, very interesting. Good to see electrical work being done professionally. I've had an electrician do some work and I just wish they had the motivation that you have, to do a really good professional job. Joining two armoured cables, outdoors with wagos and losing the armoured earth... that's what I have at the moment!
Hi Cory. Good video on "expect the un-expected". The corrosion and damp in the consumer unit is almost certainly the result of the plastic getting hot and giving off acidic fumes.
21.55 Chai-cester. It's Chit-cester. Or chi-chuh·stuh. Love the channel. Big love from one big fella to another.
Vanilla chaiiiiii
I love fault finding and know the struggles of identifying circuits. A mad trick I came up with as an apprentice was a 16 channel 12v rf switch, each channel had a different resistance. My test lead was nothing but speaker wire, allowing me to test the neutrals and earths on one pass. Sometimes you have to think what's the best time effective method and if it was my loved ones place I'd properly test it to the best of my ability.
Great idea! Totally agree. It’s been gone through with a fine tooth comb now 😁🙏🏼
This videos is actually really fun. Love this type of work
Are you drunk?
Love the fault finding video on top of all the other dramatic one good man. Please keep them coming if you can/wish
Brilliant Corey 👏
Nice video,.
Good to see you have your own business,.and site.
All the best Cory
Here in America we now have AFCI units as standard receptacles, they no longer have to be on a dedicated line from the main panel, the same applies to GFCI receptacles. We put the GFCI's everywhere, line bathrooms.
Fantastic, thanks.
Great video Corey! Thanks for using our AFDD 😊
Always a pleasure
Hi buddy happy Xmas trying to catch up with your videos after a little set back with my treatment carry on the good work your leading the way forward. Love to all woody
Thanks Cory something I could follow 😂 this week
Any time!
Very helpful information learnt from this video
Have you considered putting in those cobalt chloride papers into those boxes, would be a good indicator down the line that moisture has entered it? Something that changes colour at a certain moisture level...
Great idea 💡. Never thought of that before, thank you!
nothing like 2 lads, sorting shit out.
@13:53 Who winced when the hardened tip of a number 2 went to the eyeball? Yikes!!
Good video Cory.
Fantastic stuff as always! 👍🏽
Thanks mate!
For any circuits on tray, I use NYY-J
A very Verso-tile video Cory! Lol. A good thing that it wasn't the poop brand!
I like this type of video too, nice balance with more exotic stuff 👍
Thanks 🙏🏼😄. These sort of videos are great for apprentices too
1:47 OY, Oli! 👏🤣
Interesting. In America we did multi-wire branch circuits to save on copper. It’s a single cable with two lives that share a neutral. It wouldn’t work in the UK because your service is single phase only and the single neutral would be overloaded. Here with split phase service the neutral has the difference of two live leads on it. So this means if one circuit has 20 amps being drawn and the other has 15 the neutral only has 5 amps on it.
Great video as always! I’ve just asked wholesalers for a quote for them JCC V50 retrofit
Good call!
@29:00 that's how demolition people do it: they dont say, where the chimney is supposed to land, until it did land... giggle 🤣
Here in the USA, almost every single light / outlet in the home needs to be on AFCI (AFDD) breakers. Any wet/damp areas also have to be on GFCI's (5ma) as well. We have either AFCI or GFCI breakers or combined AFCI and GFCI single breaker dual function. When we have large panels with 40 or more breakers the costs can escalate quite fast. I am sure you guys are headed the same way down the road where all your breakers will be a combined AFDD/RCBO at some point in your regulations. 👍🤠
All new circuits in the UK houses have required RCD (GFCI) protection for some years (and kitchens/bathrooms circuits for a few years before that). That used to be via separate RCDs protecting multiple circuits due to cost, but the trend now is (thankfully) to separate RCBOs as the costs have plummeted and people have now learned their value.
As for AFDDs, then combined RCBO/AFDDs are still extremely expensive (about £100 a circuit). European spec AFDDs are not the same as US ones. One particular difficulty is that there is no means of testing the AFDD device on-site. The test gear used in the USA for AFDDs don't work with the ones available in Europe.
One difference in the UK is that the great majority of properties are made of masonry, so there are differences in the fire risk compared to wooden buildings.
IN any event, AFDDs have to be considered and they are compulsory in some types of property, such as care homes, where the occupants are at particular risk and they are meant to be considered.
@@TheEulerID
AFDDs are *mandatory* in high rises over 6 floors (all flats in the block), care homes, etc, but only on socket circuits. They are strongly _recommended_ on all installations. Common sense must be used fitting them on high current drawing circuits a must.
AFDDs are around £80 a unit, dropping in price as uptake increases.
@@johnburns4017 I alluded to AFDDs being compulsory in certain sorts of building (although BS7671 is not a statutory document).
As far as other buildings, whilst they are recommended, the wording does not say strongly.
"For all other premises, AFDDs conforming to BS EN 62606 are recommended for single-phase AC final circuits supplying socket outlets not exceeding 32 A."
@@TheEulerID
That sounds strong enough to me.
@@johnburns4017 you don't just get to add your own adverbs. If they meant strongly, then they would surely have said so.
Like most things, 3 phase boards for domestic are just to expensive. When we changed from single phase to three phase we needed a board for three 80amp feeds to three seperate consumer units, a distribution board apprx 600*700 with mutltiple outlets was actually cheaper than anything that the company could find. Rediculus, but it was going in the garage so not an issue. Consumer units also in europe tend to need a lot more breakers than we generally use and the French I know have weird rules about certain circuits/breakers not being mixed on the same level, so they need bigger boards full stop.
Nice video as always I’d say it’s should be always left to the professionals, nice one Cory 😎🇨🇮
Absolutely! Thankyou 🙏🏼⚡️⚡️
Interesting! In my area (Ontario, Canada) we don't have ring circuits. We also have split phase 120/240 which is actually more of a pain than anything. I like the small form-factor DIN rail boxes in the UK. The amount of space my breaker box takes up is massive compared to those. It's a huge steel box with a lot of empty space.
A lot of the reason for smaller breaker boxes in the UK is because the homes are considerably smaller than the typical North American house. Thus there is an onus on keeping them small and also tucking them out of the way, much to the annoyance of electricians who often have to work in confined spaces.
I live in the US in a house with 120/240 open delta 3 phase. I have both US style panels and din rail although the din rail panel which is in the shop is not just circuit distribution, but controls (relays, timers, a PLC, 24vdc power supply, etc). Not typical for a house though. The reason the panels are so big isn't because they're split phase, but rather the high amperage and number of circuits. A 100a panel is about the biggest small din rail panel in the UK. Above that they are 3 phase and look just like the panels in the US, but with DIN breakers. ABB actually makes a US market DIN rail panel, it's called the ABB Proline. Completely finger safe with insulated busbars. Working live is like plugging appliances into the wall. Only comes in 3 phase versions, however. I'm planning on using one when we go from 100a Delta to 200a Wye, when the power company is ready to run a new service drop to the next pole over where there is a Wye transformer set.
Great Work and very enjoyable 🙂👍🇮🇪☘️
Many thanks!
Congrats on 100k, well will be before your next video.
Fan of the Unilite 925R, recently been using it instead of my Milwaukee L4FFL-301 for panels etc as the battery life is pathetic, can see why they offer something similar with the M12 batteries although it seems bulky.
If anyones stuck for Christmas ideas, can recommend gifting these (IL-925R) and adding one for yourself. Just don't blame me when you blind yourself.
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Good video i learned from this 👌
Glad to hear it
Great video!
When you say the SWA doesn’t need to be earthed “this end” as it is earthed at the other end (board), why would it not needed to be earthed?
Only one end of the steel wire armouring needs to be earthed, for the same reason only one end of a copper water pipe needs to be earthed.
Sometimes the steel is used as the CPC, so of course would be terminated at both ends.
Always love seing your vids
Very kind 🙏🏼⚡️
Cracking video, good to see Oliver over!
I wonder why the regs go with terms like R1 and R2 when calling it RL and RE would be surely more descriptive and less confusing?
Twin & Earth is most common in domestic installs because it's cheaper! Fairly sure that's the main reason for its popularity, along with people installing it because that's what they've always used for domestic work.
Which jcc downlighta would you suggest for a kitchen?
The earlier US arc fault detectors were quite crude to the cpu based four function AFDDs in the UK. The early US units were problematic giving arc fault detection a bad name over there.
I didn't get the war thing! 😂😂😂
That rings came about because of a copper shortage is myth. Final rings had a big uptake in the late 50s/early 60s with the huge housing programmes and the full adoption of the 13A sockets. The 13A fuse-in-plug was the enabler, as without it an appliance flex is not protected and it also restricts a current draw on one outlet to 13A. The introduction of fused 13A spur switches gave the ring credence as it was also a way to fit fixed hard wired appliances. BTW, my mother's house was built in 1954 with 13A plugs and _radials._
A properly installed ring say with 4mm cable on an AFDD is near bombproof. It can supply a multitude of appliances.
Thanks for your insight
@@corymac
There was a big review of all the building regs in WW2, 1942, in anticipation of the post war building boom.
I actually got a moaning NICEIC bloke the other day because a commercial client decided they wanted AFDD's in their office block as part of the spec. Inspectors argument was they're not needed or advised for concrete construction non residential. Clients argument, they can't guarantee that all staff won't bring in non-PAT heaters during the winter or other items and it's easier to be paranoid and not need them, to not have them and have an incident.
10:06 _'Noice'_ ah, memory of no neck Johnny lives on ! (for the long time viewers). Actually a really good video Cory - noice!
Thanks Mark! 😁
Waving your fingers around a live bus bar. Nice job
Thank you kindly. If I catch a finger that’s one less annoying RUclips sparky at least
Nice editing! I feel like I am watching the Electrical version of Edd China 😀
Thanks! 😃 We have a great editor!
I think you're a stud too Cory 😊
I can't get my head around the resistance test between line and earth giving the same resistance at every socket if it's a ring. I can see it'd do that if you cross wired line to earth at the board, and then broke the ring at each socket to be tested and measured there. But I don't see how it works with the socket still wired in as normal, whatever you do at the board. What am I missing?
The wrong stud 😂😂
The biggest tragedy to the electrics in that house is the faux crystals chandelier! 🎉
4mm^2 cable on a lighting system is not, in itself, against regulations although it might raise questions about why it is on such a thick gauge cable.
Genuine question what’s wrong with a 4mm cable for lighting? Is it because it will give you odd readings on the tests?
There is nothing wrong with it as far as the regulations go, although it might mislead later electricians as to its role and hence be misidentified. It might also be incompatible with connectors made for 1.5mm cable. You would not, for instance, want to try and connect 4mm^2 cable into a ceiling rose.
The original phrase is “the cobbler’s son runs barefoot”
it a hot topic but my only issue this afdds is what Dave Slatery highlighted no real means of testing or a thought-out way of confirming what fault has occurred with a majority of brands using all manner of styles nothing really has been set in stone to say this is the way we are going forward, the technology has been there for a while but if i remember correctly the Germans are now saying rather than being universal they are only to be used in certain places and conditions much like the current regs here, as for the builders ring 😂i feel your pain having just finished tracing out a huge clusterf*ck in a motel socket circuits spanning most rooms and areas where the boards where changed but never marked........lots of broken rings rings on rings and spurs on spurs...... good video again looking forward to the hydrogen project and the canal boat coming from a marine electrical background looking forward to that one
AFDD's look to be the way forwards (when the price drops) Just out of curiosity have you seen Dave Savery's videos with his testing rig, surprising results, disappointing with one leading manufacturer.
I've got enough torches, Stop it! 😂
I agree, it wouldn't be good form for an electrician to burn his parent's house down...
😂
Why does it matter that a loft lighting circuit had 4mm instead of 2.5? Surely, as long as it is fused correctly and wire correctly with suitable connections it is fine? Or are there terminals that are not suited to 4mm?
It doesn’t matter. Which is why it was left, it’s just unconventional.
@@corymac Thank you. My background was before I switched to IT in the BBMS/Switchgear design and prototyping for telecom and oil industry. So I am not familiar with home wiring and regs, especially past 16th edition which was when I changed career. I really enjoy watching your channel and often wonder why I moved out of electrical.
Ceiling roses and most terminals on light fixtures are sized so you can’t oversize the cable , 2.5 is oversized for lighting never mind 4mm
@@corymac
The bigger the cable, the better. If lighting then have it on 6A breakers.
How can you code using a bigger cable size than what is needed. It can only be better. Less resistance.
Not so much the cable that is the issue, it’s more that terminals on a lighting circuit won’t be made for it
didnt you used to work at artisian electronics or whatever it was called?
RIP magnet light lol, your next light will be a waterproof one. (I’m watching your videos in reverse lol
Am I getting younger and fresher with every video? 🤣
Lmaro 😂
surely when you checked the old box you would have felt the neutral block moving when you checked the tighteness of the conductors?
Or even picked up a crap reading when testing
Isn't the reason we use T+E mechanical, rather than electrical or thermal? If you drive a nail through T+E, it's very unlikely to break. However if you drive a nail through flex you could cut the earth, or break half of the strands in a wire. If you break half of the strands in a neutral wire then you'd never know, but it would suddenly create a fire risk
Bloody good show Cory 🎉🎉 good to see you thriving without Jordan 😂😂
Weve got these weird i dont kniw if they called afdds or rcbos they are crabtree and flash a light when they trio. We got the light for a serial or parallel arc detected but i dont really know what it means. The cooker circuit did it once and then 2 days later a socket ring did. Can they be temperamental hasnt done it since and 2 different circuits. Any ideas would be helpful?
They sound like AFDD’s, but best chat to the electrician who installed them 😃
@@corymac cheers it's a council house so like talking to a brick wall 😂
I found the same thing in a shopping centre
It's extremely unlikely that old board would have caught fire before a bog standard breaker would have tripped anyway, it's a metal enclosure and all other materials are self extinguishing/fire retardant. AFDD's can lead to a false sense of security with physical checks being reduced while you can never be 100% sure the AFDD's are working correctly. The whole system should have been checked after any sort of flood.
18:40 What happened to the socket with a higher resistance?
Im assuming as it was only 1 socket with the higher reading, that is just a spur from the ring, if it was multiple high readings then it would be a mess of a ring. As it was one, its safe on a 32A
I always wondered why you guys insulation tested so often, I just realized it's cause your conductors are actually smaller when using "ring circuit" wiring scheme!
They test because it is what is done.
IR tests are done on all circuits, not just ring finals. Not because of smaller conductors (and of course a ring uses two lengths of thinner cable rather than one length of thicker) but because separation of conductors, using insulation, is important/essential to all installations. It can pick up all sorts including damaged insulation, heat damage, etc.
What is the reason for the high amp fuses? I get it for a owen or heater. But the rest? You have 230v, 10 or 16A is more than enough for most suplies.
Not even in a garage you really need anything more than 16A for anything other than big machinery but then again that mostly requires 3 phase. A coiuple (amount depending on how safe you want to be incase something trips) of 16A and 10A fuses is usually more than enough for a hole house.
An electric space heater can easily draw 3 kW. I can imagine wanting to use a portable one of those on top of whatever other tools I might use. Also, some people put tumble driers into the garage if they don't have space in the house.
@@TheEulerID Yes but it doesn't draw it constantly but cycles. If we take the garage/workshop I have as an example. The outlets are on 2 16A C, then theres the third for lights that's just a 10A C. I have never managed to blow a fuse even if welding. The hole property is powered with 25A mains (by it being 3 phase) but could by all means go down to 20A.
Even the latest factory the company was involved with (120 000m2, that even has 16 10kv transformers) only has 16A outlet circuit and 10A for lights. Heavy machinery ofcourse has there own circuit.
Thats why I question why a small house in the uk would need 80A main and 32A for outlets.
@@Iceeeen You can question all you like, but in my kitchen and utility room I have the following devices which are plugged in an connected to the ring circuit downstairs. A fridge/freezer, a 3 kW electric kettle, a 1.4 kW microwave/oven, a 2kW dishwasher, a 3 kW one-cup water kettle, a 2kW toaster and a 2 kW deep fryer. Of course, those are not all used at once, and not at full power, but if they were all on a 16A or 20A circuit, then there would be a good chance of nuisance trips. Then you have to have multiple circuits in the kitchen, and have the wrong combination of things on a particular circuit, and happen to turn on the wrong combination of things, then you can get a nuisance trip with multiple circuits.
The fixed, 6 kW cooker is on its own 32A circuit.
As for a detached garage as I have, then it is easer to have a single 32A or 40A RCBO circuit with a 6mm^2 cable with a cheap and small garage CU with a couple of separate lighting and socket circuits there.
In essence, by having a fuse in each plug, it not only provides better protection than a circuit breaker alone, as it can be rated to the appliance and, importantly, the flexible cable used. A table lamp cord is not properly protected by a 20A breaker for instance, but it greatly simplifies wiring and allows householders to plug in what they want and where without too much danger of a nuisance trip. If the gas central heating has failed for example, they can plug in a couple of portable electric heaters until it's fixed. It doesn't much matter if they are in the same room or different ones.
As for total power requirements, some houses have 10 kW electric showers, and a few more than one. Those are 40A each.
Also, for those that don't like ring circuits, 32A radials can be used using 4 mm^2 cabling. I should add that it's also quite common to have one socket on a 40A cooker circuit.
Three phase wiring in domestic properties is very unusual in UK domestic properties, and it does complicate wiring, especially if 3 phase appliances are used. What might drive it is electric vehicle chargers and the replacement of gas central and water heating with heat pumps. I will probably run a 5 core SWA cable to my garage to allow for a future 3 phase charger which can go to 21 kW rather than the 7 kW limit on single phase, although it would, of course, require the local electricity supply company to provide that via the three phases in the street.
@@TheEulerID
Many think heat pumps will consume high currents. They will not. A 6kW heat pump can replace an 18kW gas boiler. The COP of 3 sees to that. They also operate at lower temperatures so will be running longer, like on temperature setback overnight.
Three phase in average UK homes is madness. Unnecessary.
@@johnburns4017 even 25A sustained is still a significant extra load. Also, 3 phase allows the use of 21 kW EV chargers, or multiple 7kW chargers, which, when combined with smart charging is a great way to soak up excess capacity from intermittent renewable.
Some new houses are being equipped with 3 phase from the start, and it is normal practice in countries like the Netherlands and Germany.
Are you saying they are mad?
As any tradie will say; Do as i say, not as i do 😂
your right about afdds i manage a site of commercial bean to cup coffee machines that recently had afdds fitted you dont realise the hidden issues high current appliances have til you get calls for machines tripping afdds. on the plus side not far from 100k so got to return jordan his 100k youtube plack.
So what you're saying at 12:00 is that Britain's electrical standards regarding ring circuits have no use anymore and are a relic from a bygone era, since then forgotten about and cemented in regulations because "that's just the way it was done back then"?
say Hi to Oliver a few weeks back i saw him him in Tesco's Southend but i could not remember his name to call out to say hello
ØY ØY, it'a Cory!
Some people who are over 40 years old have loose joints, so you would come across the board with the same issue 😂
Sounds like my previous owner worked on that house 🤦
Mind you, we've recently had these fancy* breakers fitted and the wife was messing around cleaning the iron and it tripped so...
*Very very expensive
7:47 more like windows 3.1
32 amp breaker protecting a ring final circuit on 2.5 is ok, fine, but a spur off a ring in 2.5 still protected by the 32 amp breaker which is allowed by the regs ??? No rings in the Irish Republic and of course all 3 conductors insulated throughout their length.☘️
Think they say it's allowed because any plug connected to it would be have a 13A fuse in it.
I had an Irish electrician confirm to me that ring circuits are allowed in Ireland, but they are a lot less common than in the UK. A bit of research appears to confirm that. I'm never quite sure what the advantage of the insulation is in T&E cable apart from not having to sleeve the earth. If the insulation is failing in a cable, it doesn't much matter if there's one more layer to the CPC.
A single spur is allowed on a ring as the theoretical load limit of 26A on a twin socket is below the theoretical cable rating. In practice, it's a very unlikely scenario and, for that matter, twin sockets in the BS163 standard only have to withstand a 20A continual load for 4 hours without a significant heating effect.
Best to steer clear of a builders ring 👷💍
🤣🤣🤣🚽
I think you’re missing a trick with builders ring t-shirts.
I have a friend that was a Electrician that moved to the UK and built a home over there and wired it up like a US home
That’s cool 👌🏼
@corymac yep but I did not know that you can us a American panel box and wiring and outlet and switches in the uk
@@wolf3five
You can. I would not thought. They are huge and look like something from the 1950s. European row panels are superior. Look at Schneider.
@johnburns4017 but the European panels are so small and not a lot of room where the homeline 40 panels have a lot of room and you have more breaker space
@@wolf3five
You do not know what you are writing about. Look at the French Schneider panels. They even have comms as a part of them.
Look and learn.
U.S. Boards (Pannels) have nice Big Brakers and lots of room its Just Edison's Polly Phaze System is worse than UK Ring Mains they also have exposed incomers in the Pannels very Dodgy
Our more recent panels in the US have shrouds on the incoming lugs so they are safer than they used to be. And ring circuits are definitely worse than the split phase system here. Just about every UK electrician video shows checking ring circuits to make sure they are intact. The split phase system is essentially a 3-phase wye system with one fewer wire, it's hard to get wrong and if you do you'll know instantly.
@@eDoc2020 Most UK elections prefer Radials for outlets and lighting circuits are Radials anyways! your lighting circuits are crazy! flats and lamp failures cause weird lighting issus
I'm allergic to electrical Ring
Hey UK. WW2 was 77 years ago, start useing, what u call "radio circuit" and the rest of the world call common sense.;)
All joke aside, ring circuits can be found here in Scandinavia also, on outside roadlights and high voltage supplys.
No one wants an improper ring. 😂
It would seem like we are back in caveman days in respect to many things in the UK. Most people here seem to loath change for some reason.
Too true
Well good thing you didn't go with a Hager AFDD 🤣🤣
Also arc fault devices in the US aren't the same as here in Europe, which is why they've been around for so long over there. Like in just being able to get a mini computer in the AFDD wasn't something that was possible until a few years ago, so their AFCI's were dumb as hell compared to the futuristic stuff being installing today.
You also know there's a difference when Klein tools has an AFCI tester, yet AFDD's have no easy way to test them, unless you actually have an arc fault that will (hopefully) trip it.
Genuine question. What's the issue with Hager AFDD? Thinking of asking for some on a new CU.
@@wizgha1987 David Savery couldn't get one to trip, even with very obvious series and parallel arc faults. Basically a case of being too smart for its own good.
Ouch. Which brand are considered good quality? And can you swap other brand AFDDs on a CU? E.g. I'm thinking of requesting a Hager CU (I'm assuming they're considered top quality) but different brand AFDD - is that possible?
@@wizgha1987 You are not meant to mix different brands in a CU as the manufacturers haven't tested them together and as such it would probably get some sort of fail on an electrical safety check.
Whilst a lot of that smacks of protectionism by manufacturers, there is the real issue that the bus bar locations are not standardised and there can be real issues with that between different brands.
@@TheEulerID Perfect explanation, thank you!
Re your ocd when your faffing with dubious circuits. Short any hypothetically dead ends in a wago. Then if its still in circuit cos someones done something random youll pick it up on testing and know 100% its dead.
I often do this
The worst thing shown in this video was the Planet Z cymbal.
OCD is not being thorough...that would be bordering on pedantic. OCD is rather nasty ...7th most debilitating disease you can have :)
grubby fingers.. if you ain't wearing gloves dont touch the ceiling
If you're wondering where Waldo is, he's in this video 😁
😂😂😂
You would code a circuit which has too thick a cable as a fault even though the circuit breaker rating is equal to or lower than the current rating for the cable?
Seriously?
Where's the danger here?
What are we saying? That if a final circuit design or installation doesn't comply to a recommended final circuit in respect of limit on length, cross sectional area size of cable, breaker rating, then issue a C3 for it?
That anything other than the recommended final circuit configurations are not permitted?
The conductor size isn’t the issue here per se, it’s the things that will then go along with it, such as terminal sizes on light switches and sockets being too small to receive 4mm, bending radius for t&e entering little light enclosures etc
@@corymac
When using 4mm (or 2.5mm for that matter) on a ring or radial, use lever Wago types of connectors in the backbox to take the current load of the spine. Then from the Wagos use 2.5mm flex to the socket terminals. Then current only runs thru the socket terminals when it is in use. Then no stress on the socket terminals as the socket is pushed into the box. Works a treat. Also quicker. And great for 1st fix testing - leave the Wagos in place ready for the 2nd fix fitting of sockets.