12:14 can you explain me why you enable Vsync if you cap the limit anyways?I dont get it because 138 limit should be fine for 144 refresh. Gerne auch auf deutsch :D
But you didn't test G-Sync + NULL without a framerate cap. What happens if I enable G-Sync NULL without a framerate cap? You only showed results of G-Sync NULL with a cap of 139FPS and 130FPS.
Great video as always, but I would highly recommend to always use the NVIDIA V-Sync instead of any ingame V-Sync as they are almost always poorly implemented. I see again and again that the ingame one causes issues like lower FPS and stutters in some games and have yet to see anyone having such problems with the native NVIDIA one.
Check his Twitter feed "As promised, I will do an update video on the 'netcode' of CoD:MW 2019. But not during week 1&2 as devs patch/hotfix the game client and server a lot during that time. Don't want the results to be outdated before I even publish them."
@Ladioz RTTS capping the game gives a much more stable frametime compared to using the ingame fps limiter, which will vary a bit more. This can easilly be tested yourself with MSI Afterburner. Input-lag difference i cant measure.
I like everything gut the setting of v-sync ingame, because a lot of devs use buffering options such as tripple buffering combined into one v-sync option and you can never be sure if they do.
Man your topics never gets old. I never found myself watching every video of a channel multiple times. They are just very tricky and usefull. They helped me a lot.
Great video! If you have the time, please investigate the effect 'Full Screen Optimizations' have on gaming performance. I've recently noticed a much smoother experience turning this off, even with a freesync monitor.
Honestly this is the best video ive seen on this topic, i have runned my setup very wrong after hearing this video. Ive runned with gsync on and vsync on, but i havent been using fps limiters. I will also try to skip vsync from nvidia and rather use it in-game now. Damn this is such a well done movie, great job!
They really need to work on making these technologies less confusing and more streamlined. As it stands now it's a total mess! First thing they need to solve asap is providing a freaking fps limiter in the control panel that doesn't impact your input delay!!! If for example AMD would offer this i would switch to them within a heartbeat...
Tsuri S. We can dream right. Sounds like this is what they are trying to do, He mentioned several times in this video that the NULL setting would drop the frame rate by about 3 FPS. I think a FPS limiter in the control panel will always be a pipe dream because of how many different game engines there are.
@@DTPettis yea another thing that needs fixing is the input lag increase when reaching 99% gpu utiluzation... They should put a buffer in that lowers it so the gpu performs same at 99% as at 97%
@@Merlin- I really don't think that lag reduction that occures, when GPU is fully utilized is possible. It may be basically inherent to it, because simply put GPU has more to do that it can. It's like with trafic jams. More cars per time unit, but takes longer for the car to arrive.
@@DTPettis Why does different game engines have to enter into it? Hell just port the code that RTSS uses into the control panel, and BAM, all are supported
thank you sir! Now it's clear for me. I mostly play Rainbow 6 Siege. Now my settings are: G-Sync ON, V-Sync ON, Null OFF RTSS Cap to 142 FPS. (For 144hz Monitor). Edit: Now I'm using the frame limiter in the Nvidia Software
Thank you so very much for your videos on Sync technologies and input lag. For about one year I had the problem that I was still getting tearing even with G-Sync enabled and the FPS inside the G-Sync range of my monitor. If I activated VSync, the tearing was gone and the image was smooth, but the additional input delay was really noticeable. So for over a year I just couldn't figure out how to deal with this, now I just set V-Sync to on in the Nvidia Control Panel and set a Framerate Limit to 73fps, which is 2fps below my monitors native refresh rate and combined with G-Sync enabled I finally have the smooth, clean low latency experience I have been looking for the whole time.
You also need to include the vsync off, adaptive sync off + hundreds of fps (capped or uncapped, gpu limited or not). By some testers, vsync off & adaptive sync off would be the best for input lag
Excellent work done here , Chris! Speaking honestly I find your channel one of the best content-creator in whole RUclips. Each video seems to be like a treasure. Sincere thanks.
I've suscribed right now to your channel because you've this particular, clever pedagogical method of going to the point. Thanks a lot for the quality and intellectual honesty of your presentation. You make us earn one thousand of hours of checking some unintelligible others pretending experts. Best regards with all the wishes for this year.
Your videos have been very useful and informative. I use g-sync with v-sync and the frame limited for smooth gameplay. For online I also bought a router with SQM the Amazon Eero mesh and bufferbloat ping spikes in games are gone as well. One of the few channels that doesn't tell me shit I already know.
Great video. This explains why I was getting tearing at the bottom of my screen on a 144hz Gsync monitor. I capped my framerate at 140 with vsync off. Looks like I should cap my fps at 138 and turn vsync on in game. Thanks so much
Wow I actually learned something new. Everybody always said it's you have to enable Vsync in the nvidia control panel, but the in-engine option makes much more sense
You dumb? Capping your fps below by 3 with gsync and vsync on will still have input lag unless your 240hz and cap it to 237 but if your 144hz and cap it to 141 you will still have input lag but less than 144
Thank you man for this in- depth video! That's just what I needed! I was trying to find out the differences, with some low techniques, but the sensor and a high camera is the way to do it. And if I followed you well, the best option to have the smoothest screen with the lowest input lag is: G-Sync: ON V-Sync: OFF Cap the FPS to 4-5 frames below the maximum refresh rate of your monitor NULL: ON/OFF (doesn't really matter) Can anyone confirm this, please?
Well I applied this to cod and it worked wonders for my lag. I was having such a terrible experience with cod and this guide along with the others have helped me.
Hi, Battle(non)sense ever since I a GSYNC monitor I started watching your videos and they've helped me ALOT. Now after alot of tweaking I found out that using NVIDIA NULL on Ultra limits my frames on 138 automatically when I turn on 'just VSYNC' in any game. I figured you needed to limit frames and enable VSYNC seperatly, but it seems that NVIDIA may have had an update of some sorts to spare time... maybe?
I don't know if you'll read this, but I've found that Battlefield V actually has a very poor frame rate limiter. If you measure the effects with an app like RivaTuner, you'll see that BFV never delivers stable frame pacing, and every few seconds the frame rate itself goes over or under the set limit. Alternatively, using RivaTuners frame rate limiter presents a far more stable and consistent experience. Of course RivaTuner could possibly be biased in its measurements, but I tend to think it's quite accurate. See if you get the same results as I did! I'm curious :P
Your extensive tests and shared knowledge have allowed me to get more out of my i7-920 then I ever thought was possible. I think I can get another 3 years out of this chip before upgrading to a w3690.
It will cost some rendering power, depending on the option/options u use. So i think yes. But if your GPU isnt 95 - 99 % of load, it should be somehow the same... But not 100% sure...
What about integer scaling? Considering replacing my 1440p panels with 4K ones now that Nvidia supports integer scaling, but haven't because I don't know what kind of effect it has on performance and input lag.
With my 2060 It costs 2-4 fps I turned it on because i can see more clearly now and it adds more clarity in graphics so why not. In future drivers maybe they can optimize it
I am a bit confused: why is V-sync needed if you are already using a FPS limiter? G-sync max frequency will never be reached so V-sync will never activate. This means that FPS limiter should be enough to avoid any tearing and V-sync can be disabled altogether. What is the reason behind this (unexpected) behaviour? EDIT: Rephrased the question to make it clearer, see comment below.
i think it's because you still get some screen tearing in the bottom as shown in the video..not sure why this happens though; i think it has to do with the monitor not being synchronized frames
@@MrSebastianMars I saw the video, I saw the bottom screen tearing but maybe my question was not clear, I suppose. Let me rephrase it: why is V-sync needed if there is already a FPS limiter? The FPS limiter alone should be more than enough. That bottom screen tearing is an anomaly and the fact that V-sync fixes it is an anomaly too. This behaviour is unexpected and unpredictable. I would like to know why this happens, the question purpose was to obtain in-depth information about this behaviour. Now that I re-read my question I see it being wrong, going to edit it now.
@@RiccardoLulli have no idea what causes this. Ill double check my theory. Once I installed properly drivers with reseting my LCD settings and havent seen this tearing. After updating drivers it happens again.
Chris, hope you read this. There is a "relatively" new scan line sync from rivatuner statistics server, which is providing perfect smooth, tear free and adds almost no input delay to the gameplay. The knly thing is that your gpu has to be at 70-80% of the usage, otherwise you'll get tearing, stutters etc. I would really like to see you make a video on this topic, since in has a lot of potential.
Would love it if you could test these things in more than one game. Hardware Canucks also did a test at 99% GPU lod and couldn't reproduce your findings in all of the games tested.
What about the reduce buffering option on overwatch? Your videos are great! You should have a video with the gist of all information, like "How to have the best video experience in OW" .
I wish we could get an answer on this. In his past videos, he opted not to test the 'On' setting as well which basically equates to pre-rendered frames 1. Why omit this setting? Most competitive settings guides online have traditionally stated that "1" is the best setting. I'm skeptical of this and would love Battlenonsense to offer some clarity.
Very good video and explenations. I was always wondering why my G-Sync compatible monitor showed some stutter sometimes. Now I will enable V-Sync with the frame rate limiter set below the refresh rate of my monitor
We get tearing only when GPU produces higher frames than the monitor's refresh rate. Enabling V-Sync will lock the frames produced by GPU, hence getting rid of tearing but you are lock at that rate and if it jumps down you get horrible stutter and you get high latency overall as well. But if you just cap the in game frame rate to that of the monitor you get rid of tearing and even if frames drop below it, they won't be dropped to half. And on top of that if you set the fps cap slightly lower such that average GPU utilisation is around 95% you get significant reduction in latency as well. So what's the use of V-Sync or even G-Sync and Freesync, as you are already getting rid of tearing, having to strictly mantain frame rates(when V-Sync on) and much lower latency with just right frame caping?
This is what i am wondering about as well. For me it sounds like as long as youre using a fps limiter you dont need vsync. But what he is saying in the video at the end i dont quite get. He is mentioning you want to make sure vsync is enabled as that eliminates tearing near the lower edge of the display. 11:15 . So it must be doing something even below max refreshrate it seems? But i cant find any info on this by nVIDIA.
you completely miss the point. you cant get rid of tearing without v-sync or g-sync/freesync. if you only cap the fps(doesn't matter below or above refresh rate) you will still have tearing, but also you will get the lowest possible latency
Last I'd heard, reduce buffering will reduce input latency at the cost of a potentially less consistent frame rate. How this works exactly is still a bit unclear, but it seems similar to double vs. triple buffered VSYNC, where the added buffer can provide a more consistent frame rate at the cost of one frame of input lag.
Great video as usual, next time you include BFV measurements in a video, could you test the impact of ingame frame limiter and future frame rendering in DX12?
Nvidia clearly stated that NULL works only correct between 60 - 100 FPS. Other then that, how about setting NULL ON instead Ultra. How does that effect Gsync? @battlenonsense
What will give the lowest input lag *AND* most stable frame times - *assume GPU is NOT maxed out* - 144hz monitor + 141fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync on + V-sync off - 144hz monitor + 141fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync on + V-sync on - 144hz monitor + 144fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync *off* + V-sync *off* - 144hz monitor + 160+fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync *off* + V-sync *off* And what about the Low Latency setting on "On" vs "Ultra"
Is there a reason you're not testing the ultra low latency 'On' setting? You only tested Ultra and Off. I noticed the same w/ your last video. Can you possibly elaborate on this? It would be greatly appreciated! Awesome video as usual.
OK what is the conclusion for best compromise of fluid motion and latency ?! on amd and on nvidia ? Can you do a seperate video for AMD anti-lag / freesync ?
As a person that plays competitive/noncompetitive as well as demanding/stable_fps cap=120 games I feel like I'm now completely covered what settings to use.(120 because only then there is no flickering and monitor reporting sometimes 144Hz. It's Freesync 2 monitor btw. Its VA, so considering its panel reaction that won't matter much, that I'll be using a bit lower cap) As I don't intend to tweak Nvidia settings for particular games I'll go with: IN NVCP from default --> GSync ON, VSync ON, NULL Ultra(-10ms in non competitive&demanding titles, as I understand won't hurt in other scenarios), Max prerendered frames: Topic for the next video ;-) As I play a lot different games I won't use global setting here. For CS GO they say you should go with '1'. For some (mostly GPU bound) this presumably may introduce stutter.
I have gtx 970 amd aoc 75hz monitor with freesync, after one of the updates i have setting "low latency mode" i setted up ultra and now when im playing in csgo i dont have at all tearing and feels like 144 monitor in games
I have a 60hz G-Sync monitor (4k native), 2080 super, and an intel 5930k @4.5Ghz. When running Modern Warfare with G-Sync, Vsync, and Ultra low latency mode all enabled in Nvidia Control Panel I have noticed the in-game monitoring display for CPU time (I'm assuming this measures the time it takes for the CPU to process each frame) was reduced to ~3ms from ~9ms with these features turned off. Turning Vsync off and using RTSS to limit the framerate at 60 fps while leaving G-Sync and Ultra low latency mode on performs the same with ~3ms on the CPU, but then I experience very noticeable screen tearing. Same thing without RTSS using the in-game fps limiter. Since I have a 60hz monitor, lowering the framerate below 60 fps is simply not acceptable. So in that particular game I use Vsync with G-Sync and Ultra low latency mode to keep the framerate locked to 60 fps and eliminate screen tearing, however I really haven't experienced any noticeable input lag. It would be interesting to hear if you have similar results, and if there is more input delay even when the CPU is taking less time to process each frame.
I would say this new nvidia update has a huge improvement at least for me. My monitor Lg 34um68p 75hz is a freesync. I never turned on freesync 75 hz before due to stuttering issue & frame skip with nvidia card. It felt smoother in 60 hz before But in this update, I can use 75 hz without any issue. No screen tearing, no stutter, no frame skip. Gameplay/movement way smoother than before. Here's what I did: - turn on freesync in monitor Nvidia control panel - turn on G-sync feature Nvidia control panel (manage 3D setting) - low latency mode : Ultra - Vsync : On Windows desktop resolution - change refresh rate to 75 hz Download rivatuner - limit FPS at 75 FPS
What's the point of Gsync if like you said at the end of the video, you're best off limiting your frame rate to something you can achieve 100% of the time anyway?
So basically every gamer wants: Gsync ON FPS Cap under monitors max refresh rate Vsync ON (either ingame or in Nvidia) NULL ON because it doesn't hurt (or off like you suggested) And use graphics settings where your FPS will maintain the FPS cap
@@D1.y It feels the best to me. Cant go back to vsync or even gsync once you play a lot of csgo with no extra input delay. But i use it for some games that preform like ass. Tarkov for example needs frame capping badly
The Nvidia subreddit needs to see this video. They think RTSS is worse than in game limiters when 9/10 games have poorly optimized limiters that mess with the frame pacing.
They are not wrong. In-engine FPS limiters do (usually) provide the lowest input delay. RTSS increases the input delay by 1 frame compared to good in-engine limiters, but provides more stable frame times. So there is a bit of a trade off (though, who feels 1 frame extra delay at i.e. 138FPS/Hz?)
@@BattleNonSense Agreed, that's where the misconception arises. Everyone assumes that with RTSS you get a one frame delay but that is compared to using the in-game limiter. Most people on reddit think RTSS actually increases input lag lol. Most people just assume that RTSS gives you a 1 frame delay compared to playing uncapped but that just isn't the case. As for in-game limiters, they are definitely a hit or miss. Most of them give you less input lag but at the detriment of stable frame pacing. I have personally experienced this and you have arrived at the same conclusion on your last video. This is what RealNC has to say on the matter: "RTSS does not add latency. It reduces latency. Just not as much as an in-game limiter can. In other words, using RTSS gives you lower input lag compared to not using a frame limiter." The funny thing is they quote the same person in their arguments. On a side note, I love your videos man. Keep up the great work as always. Personally, I can feel the input lag that G-SYNC gives me so I keep it off in games like CSGO but I am very sensitive to uneven frame pacing. So I will stick to RTSS in 90% of games.
@@BattleNonSense Everyone who feels the difference between 60hz and 144hz monitors, but I understand this video and the RTSS one does not apply to them.
I use the Battlefield 5 in game limiter and according to the RTSS frame pacing graphs the framtimes look crap....but it feels super smooth to play. I cannot feel the difference between using RTSS frame rate limiter or the in-game limiter but I trust battle nonsense that its better to use the in game limiter
@@ZekeMagnum As a previous video from battlenonsense has shown, RTSS adds a little lag. I must however agree that its by far the best option for games that dont have limiters.
@@JFinns I tested it in COD. RTSS leaves a lot better frame smoothing than the in game frame limiter. My MS was jumping all over the place from 8ms - 18 with COD frame limiter. RTSS gave be rock solid and steady 11 MS no matter what. the graph was all flat
@@JFinns 1 frame delay is nothing and imo you gain so much more having a steady frame pacing than not having 1 frame delay extra and worse frame pacing
This video is excellent, thank you!! Subbed and liked! Also what is your opinion on COD MW frame rate limiter, I've found it to be hopeless or am I missing something, thank you again!
To be clear, everything I showed in this video applies to both *G-Sync* and *G-Sync Compatible* monitors.
when i want the lowest input delay why did u say i can turn off NULL and v sync in the game on???
12:14 can you explain me why you enable Vsync if you cap the limit anyways?I dont get it because 138 limit should be fine for 144 refresh. Gerne auch auf deutsch :D
@@Der_Oesterreicher ja will es auch wissen
So VSYNC’s input lag kicks in when you dont have fps limit right? So if you want no screen tearing and no inputlag just limit fps
But you didn't test G-Sync + NULL without a framerate cap. What happens if I enable G-Sync NULL without a framerate cap? You only showed results of G-Sync NULL with a cap of 139FPS and 130FPS.
Everyone need an academic degree to play video games. Thanks a lot for ur work!
You’re intellectual capacity and your thoroughness in benchmarking is remarkable! You are miles above the competition.
Keep up the good work!
gay
He is German, like Einstein.
Great video as always, but I would highly recommend to always use the NVIDIA V-Sync instead of any ingame V-Sync as they are almost always poorly implemented. I see again and again that the ingame one causes issues like lower FPS and stutters in some games and have yet to see anyone having such problems with the native NVIDIA one.
Hello from the future, what u low lat do you have set and do you just disable in game vsync stuff
Anyone else come back to this video over and over just for a refresher? Awesome stuff Chris, keep it up!
Thank you for making these kind's of videos, they helped me understand the whole G-Sync situation much better!
Thanks for all the testing. Not long ago I could have not imagined how complex the topic of latency and tearing is.
We need an updated modern warfare netcode analysis pls
This ^
Check his Twitter feed "As promised, I will do an update video on the 'netcode' of CoD:MW 2019. But not during week 1&2 as devs patch/hotfix the game client and server a lot during that time. Don't want the results to be outdated before I even publish them."
@@dobbinb76 Thanks for the info, don't follow his Twitter. :)
A month later, still nothing.
Lots of Modern warfare content makers are very tight lipped for some reason.
@Ladioz RTTS capping the game gives a much more stable frametime compared to using the ingame fps limiter, which will vary a bit more. This can easilly be tested yourself with MSI Afterburner. Input-lag difference i cant measure.
I like everything gut the setting of v-sync ingame, because a lot of devs use buffering options such as tripple buffering combined into one v-sync option and you can never be sure if they do.
Man your topics never gets old. I never found myself watching every video of a channel multiple times. They are just very tricky and usefull. They helped me a lot.
Great video!
If you have the time, please investigate the effect 'Full Screen Optimizations' have on gaming performance.
I've recently noticed a much smoother experience turning this off, even with a freesync monitor.
How do I turn that off?
@@cartiercartier2171 You have to do it on a per game basis. Right click the game's .exe and check the "disable full screen optimisations" box.
Honestly this is the best video ive seen on this topic, i have runned my setup very wrong after hearing this video. Ive runned with gsync on and vsync on, but i havent been using fps limiters. I will also try to skip vsync from nvidia and rather use it in-game now. Damn this is such a well done movie, great job!
Agreed. Can't thank this guy enough! Lots of misconceptions out there.
Every time I re-watch this since 2019 I learn something new!
Thank you for the extensive testing and insight, Chris!
They really need to work on making these technologies less confusing and more streamlined.
As it stands now it's a total mess!
First thing they need to solve asap is providing a freaking fps limiter in the control panel that doesn't impact your input delay!!! If for example AMD would offer this i would switch to them within a heartbeat...
Tsuri S. We can dream right. Sounds like this is what they are trying to do, He mentioned several times in this video that the NULL setting would drop the frame rate by about 3 FPS. I think a FPS limiter in the control panel will always be a pipe dream because of how many different game engines there are.
@@DTPettis yea another thing that needs fixing is the input lag increase when reaching 99% gpu utiluzation... They should put a buffer in that lowers it so the gpu performs same at 99% as at 97%
@@Merlin- I really don't think that lag reduction that occures, when GPU is fully utilized is possible. It may be basically inherent to it, because simply put GPU has more to do that it can. It's like with trafic jams. More cars per time unit, but takes longer for the car to arrive.
@@DTPettis Why does different game engines have to enter into it? Hell just port the code that RTSS uses into the control panel, and BAM, all are supported
thank you sir!
Now it's clear for me.
I mostly play Rainbow 6 Siege.
Now my settings are:
G-Sync ON, V-Sync ON, Null OFF
RTSS Cap to 142 FPS. (For 144hz Monitor).
Edit: Now I'm using the frame limiter in the Nvidia Software
Is that good ? No input lag ?
MEDUSAGG so i don’t get 100% gpu bound. => no lag.
RTSS ad one frame delay, but for me it’s worth.
Amazing content, love to see people that go the extra mile and do their homework. Btw, your videos on 1.25 speed are perfect.
Your content is so great! You do turn complex topics into easy ones! Plus you have a very pleasing voice. Thank you for the hardwork.
Thank you so very much for your videos on Sync technologies and input lag. For about one year I had the problem that I was still getting tearing even with G-Sync enabled and the FPS inside the G-Sync range of my monitor. If I activated VSync, the tearing was gone and the image was smooth, but the additional input delay was really noticeable. So for over a year I just couldn't figure out how to deal with this, now I just set V-Sync to on in the Nvidia Control Panel and set a Framerate Limit to 73fps, which is 2fps below my monitors native refresh rate and combined with G-Sync enabled I finally have the smooth, clean low latency experience I have been looking for the whole time.
Nice, wir hatten eine diskussion über vsync on und off mit gsync vor einem oder 2 jahren. Schön, dass du darauf eingehst. 😉
Wow. One of the best demonstrations ever. Clear with REAL demo footage and FPS shown. Very very good. LIKED.
Thank you for making this. It’s helped me and a lot of my friends better understand how all this stuff works.
You also need to include the vsync off, adaptive sync off + hundreds of fps (capped or uncapped, gpu limited or not).
By some testers, vsync off & adaptive sync off would be the best for input lag
this guy sounds like he really knows what he's doing
typical triggering german IT student voice
can we get a round of applause for this man!!
Nicely done. All of my questions were answered, and the experiment with the mouse click to response time was really well performed. Thumbs up my dude
Goddamn you were tearing up the other team at 11:00
Also thank you ily
bots
Excellent work done here , Chris! Speaking honestly I find your channel one of the best content-creator in whole RUclips. Each video seems to be like a treasure. Sincere thanks.
I've suscribed right now to your channel because you've this particular, clever pedagogical method of going to the point. Thanks a lot for the quality and intellectual honesty of your presentation. You make us earn one thousand of hours of checking some unintelligible others pretending experts. Best regards with all the wishes for this year.
Your videos have been very useful and informative. I use g-sync with v-sync and the frame limited for smooth gameplay. For online I also bought a router with SQM the Amazon Eero mesh and bufferbloat ping spikes in games are gone as well.
One of the few channels that doesn't tell me shit I already know.
Great video. This explains why I was getting tearing at the bottom of my screen on a 144hz Gsync monitor. I capped my framerate at 140 with vsync off. Looks like I should cap my fps at 138 and turn vsync on in game. Thanks so much
no u dont wtgf
Wow I actually learned something new. Everybody always said it's you have to enable Vsync in the nvidia control panel, but the in-engine option makes much more sense
Conclusion:
If you want to have NO SCREEN TEARING:
GSYNC ON + VSYNC ON + LIMIT 3 FPS Below your REFRESH RATE. It will have no input lag at all!
You dumb? Capping your fps below by 3 with gsync and vsync on will still have input lag unless your 240hz and cap it to 237 but if your 144hz and cap it to 141 you will still have input lag but less than 144
@@fluffyfn7 didnt u see the video
@@fluffyfn7 u bigot
@@TheKillerZmile This just proves your a 7 year old who didnt read blurbuster testing refresh rates and capping below by 3
Vsync on in NCP and game too?
best video every for g sync users
Thank you man for this in- depth video! That's just what I needed!
I was trying to find out the differences, with some low techniques, but the sensor and a high camera is the way to do it.
And if I followed you well, the best option to have the smoothest screen with the lowest input lag is:
G-Sync: ON
V-Sync: OFF
Cap the FPS to 4-5 frames below the maximum refresh rate of your monitor
NULL: ON/OFF (doesn't really matter)
Can anyone confirm this, please?
Well I applied this to cod and it worked wonders for my lag. I was having such a terrible experience with cod and this guide along with the others have helped me.
Hi, Battle(non)sense ever since I a GSYNC monitor I started watching your videos and they've helped me ALOT. Now after alot of tweaking I found out that using NVIDIA NULL on Ultra limits my frames on 138 automatically when I turn on 'just VSYNC' in any game. I figured you needed to limit frames and enable VSYNC seperatly, but it seems that NVIDIA may have had an update of some sorts to spare time... maybe?
Godlike. Thank you for doing Nvidia's job.
Battle(non)sense. You are my favorite RUclipsr. When I see that you have a new video out I push my schedule back
I wish i discovered this guy earlier. So simple to understand!
Great video. This video can use as referance in every forum and reddit topic.
Big Shoutout to you for making videos that help other players on the planet to get the best out of the hardware they have ❤️
I don't know if you'll read this, but I've found that Battlefield V actually has a very poor frame rate limiter. If you measure the effects with an app like RivaTuner, you'll see that BFV never delivers stable frame pacing, and every few seconds the frame rate itself goes over or under the set limit. Alternatively, using RivaTuners frame rate limiter presents a far more stable and consistent experience. Of course RivaTuner could possibly be biased in its measurements, but I tend to think it's quite accurate. See if you get the same results as I did! I'm curious :P
Good point I need to find a good frame limiter
I love you so much for testing these subjects thoroughly. God bless you.
I liked for the BF5 gameplay and video great testing keep it up.
Your extensive tests and shared knowledge have allowed me to get more out of my i7-920 then I ever thought was possible. I think I can get another 3 years out of this chip before upgrading to a w3690.
Excellent work as always!
Very helpful. Best explanation of this that I have seen so far.
Awesome explanations and analysis. Very easy to follow and understand. Thanks!
Does "Image Sharpening" in the Nvidia control panel have any impact on latency/framerate?
It will cost some rendering power, depending on the option/options u use.
So i think yes.
But if your GPU isnt 95 - 99 % of load, it should be somehow the same...
But not 100% sure...
What about integer scaling? Considering replacing my 1440p panels with 4K ones now that Nvidia supports integer scaling, but haven't because I don't know what kind of effect it has on performance and input lag.
in gta 5 i noticed a increase on latency.
EnHaNcE
With my 2060
It costs 2-4 fps
I turned it on because i can see more clearly now and it adds more clarity in graphics so why not. In future drivers maybe they can optimize it
Thanks Chris, very cool and helpful video
great job dude, I was unsure about the need to enable v sync and in wich cases but now thanks to u I got it, great video
I had tearing in the bottom part with gsync and frame limit on. Now I know I can enable vsync too to counter that issue. Thanks :)
Dude - thank you for putting this together!
Your videos are very helpful for my channel. Thanks!
I am a bit confused: why is V-sync needed if you are already using a FPS limiter?
G-sync max frequency will never be reached so V-sync will never activate. This means that FPS limiter should be enough to avoid any tearing and V-sync can be disabled altogether.
What is the reason behind this (unexpected) behaviour?
EDIT: Rephrased the question to make it clearer, see comment below.
i think it's because you still get some screen tearing in the bottom as shown in the video..not sure why this happens though; i think it has to do with the monitor not being synchronized frames
nice skipping video. Dude above told why. Same crap with Freesync.
@@MrSebastianMars I saw the video, I saw the bottom screen tearing but maybe my question was not clear, I suppose.
Let me rephrase it: why is V-sync needed if there is already a FPS limiter?
The FPS limiter alone should be more than enough. That bottom screen tearing is an anomaly and the fact that V-sync fixes it is an anomaly too.
This behaviour is unexpected and unpredictable. I would like to know why this happens, the question purpose was to obtain in-depth information about this behaviour.
Now that I re-read my question I see it being wrong, going to edit it now.
@@RiccardoLulli have no idea what causes this. Ill double check my theory. Once I installed properly drivers with reseting my LCD settings and havent seen this tearing. After updating drivers it happens again.
Chris, hope you read this. There is a "relatively" new scan line sync from rivatuner statistics server, which is providing perfect smooth, tear free and adds almost no input delay to the gameplay. The knly thing is that your gpu has to be at 70-80% of the usage, otherwise you'll get tearing, stutters etc. I would really like to see you make a video on this topic, since in has a lot of potential.
Would love it if you could test these things in more than one game. Hardware Canucks also did a test at 99% GPU lod and couldn't reproduce your findings in all of the games tested.
What about the reduce buffering option on overwatch? Your videos are great! You should have a video with the gist of all information, like "How to have the best video experience in OW" .
Battle(non)sense
how about set to "On" instead of "Ultra"? What's the difference, if any?
I wish we could get an answer on this. In his past videos, he opted not to test the 'On' setting as well which basically equates to pre-rendered frames 1. Why omit this setting? Most competitive settings guides online have traditionally stated that "1" is the best setting. I'm skeptical of this and would love Battlenonsense to offer some clarity.
Cutting3dge Media not mention Battleye anticheat has problem with settings set to “Ultra”, but with “On” its ok.
BFV ran worse for me with NULL set to Ultra, it ran better with just On. (1080ti Hybrid/7700k/344x1440 21:9 100Hz/G-Sync)
Very good video and explenations. I was always wondering why my G-Sync compatible monitor showed some stutter sometimes. Now I will enable V-Sync with the frame rate limiter set below the refresh rate of my monitor
GSync is now called GSync Ultimate and VESA Adaptive-Sync / AMD FreeSync monitors are now often marked with GSync instead of GSync Compatible.
Good job bro, nice and informative video as always :D
Great Video and testing. I finally know how to set up my GPU and monitor for the best result! I also subscribed.
best video about gsync ever. Thanks man
We get tearing only when GPU produces higher frames than the monitor's refresh rate. Enabling V-Sync will lock the frames produced by GPU, hence getting rid of tearing but you are lock at that rate and if it jumps down you get horrible stutter and you get high latency overall as well. But if you just cap the in game frame rate to that of the monitor you get rid of tearing and even if frames drop below it, they won't be dropped to half. And on top of that if you set the fps cap slightly lower such that average GPU utilisation is around 95% you get significant reduction in latency as well. So what's the use of V-Sync or even G-Sync and Freesync, as you are already getting rid of tearing, having to strictly mantain frame rates(when V-Sync on) and much lower latency with just right frame caping?
This is what i am wondering about as well. For me it sounds like as long as youre using a fps limiter you dont need vsync. But what he is saying in the video at the end i dont quite get. He is mentioning you want to make sure vsync is enabled as that eliminates tearing near the lower edge of the display. 11:15 . So it must be doing something even below max refreshrate it seems? But i cant find any info on this by nVIDIA.
you completely miss the point. you cant get rid of tearing without v-sync or g-sync/freesync. if you only cap the fps(doesn't matter below or above refresh rate) you will still have tearing, but also you will get the lowest possible latency
Amazing. This is what I was looking for a long time. Thanks for explaining.
Very educational. Thought I knew everything about that stuff, you proved me wrong. Thanks!
Thanks for the video! didnt know you could use vsync on gsync to reduce tearing without input lag. Good stuff as always
Great video. In Overwatch world you recommend using Reduce Buffering in addition to all the other settings you mention in this video?
Would be nice to know
Last I'd heard, reduce buffering will reduce input latency at the cost of a potentially less consistent frame rate. How this works exactly is still a bit unclear, but it seems similar to double vs. triple buffered VSYNC, where the added buffer can provide a more consistent frame rate at the cost of one frame of input lag.
@@MarioManTV no,Reduce Buffering just reduces the Frame Buffer to 1.So only the next 1 frame gets rendered while the other one is on display.
Again, one of the most professional videos I have ever seen!
Great video as usual, next time you include BFV measurements in a video, could you test the impact of ingame frame limiter and future frame rendering in DX12?
Been waiting for this! Thanks for your scientific research
Nvidia clearly stated that NULL works only correct between 60 - 100 FPS.
Other then that, how about setting NULL ON instead Ultra. How does that effect Gsync? @battlenonsense
I love how persistent you are with reviving and healing teammates!
What will give the lowest input lag *AND* most stable frame times - *assume GPU is NOT maxed out*
- 144hz monitor + 141fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync on + V-sync off
- 144hz monitor + 141fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync on + V-sync on
- 144hz monitor + 144fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync *off* + V-sync *off*
- 144hz monitor + 160+fps ingame limit w/ G-Sync *off* + V-sync *off*
And what about the Low Latency setting on "On" vs "Ultra"
You're a genius ... Please talk about RDR2 PC performance issues in the next video.
Man, you are a good medic!
Awesome video, very professional and I learned a lot. You just got a new subscriber sir :)
Is there a reason you're not testing the ultra low latency 'On' setting? You only tested Ultra and Off. I noticed the same w/ your last video. Can you possibly elaborate on this? It would be greatly appreciated! Awesome video as usual.
As always, great research testing and helpful!
Keep up the good work man!
OK what is the conclusion for best compromise of fluid motion and latency ?!
on amd and on nvidia ?
Can you do a seperate video for AMD anti-lag / freesync ?
Das ist mit Abstand das informativste Video seit drei Tagen Recherche für G- Sync und Co.
As a person that plays competitive/noncompetitive as well as demanding/stable_fps cap=120 games I feel like I'm now completely covered what settings to use.(120 because only then there is no flickering and monitor reporting sometimes 144Hz. It's Freesync 2 monitor btw. Its VA, so considering its panel reaction that won't matter much, that I'll be using a bit lower cap)
As I don't intend to tweak Nvidia settings for particular games I'll go with:
IN NVCP from default --> GSync ON,
VSync ON,
NULL Ultra(-10ms in non competitive&demanding titles, as I understand won't hurt in other scenarios),
Max prerendered frames: Topic for the next video ;-)
As I play a lot different games I won't use global setting here. For CS GO they say you should go with '1'. For some (mostly GPU bound) this presumably may introduce stutter.
Greatness, thank you! Excellent explanation!
Love these videos man, keep it up.
Kind of expected results, but still very good to have proof of my theory 👌thank you as always Chris!
I have gtx 970 amd aoc 75hz monitor with freesync, after one of the updates i have setting "low latency mode" i setted up ultra and now when im playing in csgo i dont have at all tearing and feels like 144 monitor in games
I have a 60hz G-Sync monitor (4k native), 2080 super, and an intel 5930k @4.5Ghz. When running Modern Warfare with G-Sync, Vsync, and Ultra low latency mode all enabled in Nvidia Control Panel I have noticed the in-game monitoring display for CPU time (I'm assuming this measures the time it takes for the CPU to process each frame) was reduced to ~3ms from ~9ms with these features turned off.
Turning Vsync off and using RTSS to limit the framerate at 60 fps while leaving G-Sync and Ultra low latency mode on performs the same with ~3ms on the CPU, but then I experience very noticeable screen tearing. Same thing without RTSS using the in-game fps limiter. Since I have a 60hz monitor, lowering the framerate below 60 fps is simply not acceptable. So in that particular game I use Vsync with G-Sync and Ultra low latency mode to keep the framerate locked to 60 fps and eliminate screen tearing, however I really haven't experienced any noticeable input lag.
It would be interesting to hear if you have similar results, and if there is more input delay even when the CPU is taking less time to process each frame.
This video right here. Thumbs up!
I’m glad I bought into Gsync when I had the money.
I would love to see something like this in freesync.
I would say this new nvidia update has a huge improvement at least for me.
My monitor Lg 34um68p 75hz is a freesync. I never turned on freesync 75 hz before due to stuttering issue & frame skip with nvidia card. It felt smoother in 60 hz before
But in this update, I can use 75 hz without any issue. No screen tearing, no stutter, no frame skip. Gameplay/movement way smoother than before.
Here's what I did:
- turn on freesync in monitor
Nvidia control panel
- turn on G-sync feature
Nvidia control panel
(manage 3D setting)
- low latency mode : Ultra
- Vsync : On
Windows desktop resolution
- change refresh rate to 75 hz
Download rivatuner
- limit FPS at 75 FPS
No testing of 'ON' ?
Yes I'm still interested
What's the point of Gsync if like you said at the end of the video, you're best off limiting your frame rate to something you can achieve 100% of the time anyway?
it still tears, but its barely noticeable if you have a high refresh rate
So basically every gamer wants:
Gsync ON
FPS Cap under monitors max refresh rate
Vsync ON (either ingame or in Nvidia)
NULL ON because it doesn't hurt (or off like you suggested)
And use graphics settings where your FPS will maintain the FPS cap
Not if you want the lowest possible input delay. Lowest possible input delay you just deal with some tearing. No stuttering tho
@@OrganicGreens but when playing games, which rely on muscle memory, lowest input delay will probably f*** you
@@D1.y It feels the best to me. Cant go back to vsync or even gsync once you play a lot of csgo with no extra input delay. But i use it for some games that preform like ass. Tarkov for example needs frame capping badly
The Nvidia subreddit needs to see this video. They think RTSS is worse than in game limiters when 9/10 games have poorly optimized limiters that mess with the frame pacing.
They are not wrong.
In-engine FPS limiters do (usually) provide the lowest input delay.
RTSS increases the input delay by 1 frame compared to good in-engine limiters, but provides more stable frame times.
So there is a bit of a trade off (though, who feels 1 frame extra delay at i.e. 138FPS/Hz?)
@@BattleNonSense Agreed, that's where the misconception arises. Everyone assumes that with RTSS you get a one frame delay but that is compared to using the in-game limiter.
Most people on reddit think RTSS actually increases input lag lol.
Most people just assume that RTSS gives you a 1 frame delay compared to playing uncapped but that just isn't the case.
As for in-game limiters, they are definitely a hit or miss. Most of them give you less input lag but at the detriment of stable frame pacing. I have personally experienced this and you have arrived at the same conclusion on your last video.
This is what RealNC has to say on the matter: "RTSS does not add latency. It reduces latency. Just not as much as an in-game limiter can. In other words, using RTSS gives you lower input lag compared to not using a frame limiter."
The funny thing is they quote the same person in their arguments. On a side note, I love your videos man. Keep up the great work as always.
Personally, I can feel the input lag that G-SYNC gives me so I keep it off in games like CSGO but I am very sensitive to uneven frame pacing. So I will stick to RTSS in 90% of games.
@@BattleNonSense Who feels 1 frame of extra delay at 138fps? 1337 G4M3RZ THATS WHO.
@@BattleNonSense Everyone who feels the difference between 60hz and 144hz monitors, but I understand this video and the RTSS one does not apply to them.
I use the Battlefield 5 in game limiter and according to the RTSS frame pacing graphs the framtimes look crap....but it feels super smooth to play. I cannot feel the difference between using RTSS frame rate limiter or the in-game limiter but I trust battle nonsense that its better to use the in game limiter
Please do a video testing in game fps limiters like siege’s limiter
RTSS is the best no matter what game :)
@@ZekeMagnum As a previous video from battlenonsense has shown, RTSS adds a little lag. I must however agree that its by far the best option for games that dont have limiters.
@@ZekeMagnum actually Blurbusters found that in-game fps limits didn't add input delay while RTSS adds 1 frame delay
@@JFinns I tested it in COD. RTSS leaves a lot better frame smoothing than the in game frame limiter.
My MS was jumping all over the place from 8ms - 18 with COD frame limiter. RTSS gave be rock solid and steady 11 MS no matter what. the graph was all flat
@@JFinns 1 frame delay is nothing and imo you gain so much more having a steady frame pacing than not having 1 frame delay extra and worse frame pacing
Great info, thanks for doing the testing Chris! Now if I DICE can just get BFV running as smooth as BF1 and SWBF2 this might be useful to me! ^^,
This video is excellent, thank you!! Subbed and liked! Also what is your opinion on COD MW frame rate limiter, I've found it to be hopeless or am I missing something, thank you again!