Gigi having Penelope remove Polites' headband from Odysseus as he finally decides to leave behind the open arms philosophy and embrace ruthlessness is just *chef's kiss*
@ I had watched the early recording of The Challenge LONG before The Underworld came out and I was SO confused when Anticlea started singing cause I knew that motif as Penelope's first 😅
Just to be clear and transparent, when you went off in your literary description and talk, while you were saying 'I'm talking too long', I was actually riveted. Applying your knowledge and learning to these things, and teaching them to us, your audience, actually makes me all the more interested in sticking around to see other 'reacts' that you do. Because they cease just being reactions, and start also being teaching moments, and I am a *SUCKER* for those. If this is the direction that you're leaning toward in your videos, you can count me as a loyal watcher for life. I really enjoy hearing you talk about these things and learning, as well as knowing what you're going into, and how the analysis pays off.
I second this. I want to hear your analysis based on your experience as a writer. I also enjoy hearing your predictions, even if they end up being wrong lol.
at 25:48 it's actually a in-fandom joke, as in Circe Saga Jorge unintentionally sang "12 long years since i have seen my wife" when in reality it was supposed to be 10 years he realized the mistake too late to fix it, but then said that he can actually see Ody adding few years to get more pitty points from Circe so in Different Beast he just fully rolls with the 12 years line making a joke out of it fandom speculates that it's either because Ody is bad at math, or that Polites was the one responsible for calender and keeping track of everyone's birthdays, so now that he's gone they all are just clueless 😂
@@xymaryai8283 Odysseus' Mom was voiced by Jorge's (Odysseus) real mother, which makes it more sad for me. Spoiler, but not really, Hephaestus is voiced by his Dad! Music time: The reason Penelope's-siren-intro and motif sounded so weird is because it's mainly the siren doing the instrumental as well as the "Penelope" going up in pitch instead of mellowing down and then going down at the last bit! That's how you can tell Penelope isn't really Penelope, nope, it's not that they don't have a daughter, it's PURELY because of the way they sang Penelope. ALSOALSO The explanation for Tiresia's singing is because he's spouting just whatever he sees because he sees all of time, ALL THE TIME. That's why you can almost sing the song in a spoken manner just with some shifting in tone to hit those point.
@@_marou_ To add on to your thing about the Sirens, in Suffering, Penelope's instrumentent (Viola I believe) is missing. But you know what is there? Mallets, Polites' instrument. Bc of the wax in his ears, the Siren can't accurately figure out everything, for example the daughter instead of son and mallets instead of violas. Also Jorge's sister actually voices one of the winions in Dangerous! So the whole fam gets a part lol
I’ve watched this version so many times and only in this time watching i noticed he also made the lightning bolt he creates between his hands to look like her silhouette too. 😳 such a great little detail.
Something that will possibly make you sob: The spirits in the underworld are saying what they thought right before they died- so right before he got clubbed by a cyclops, Polites was thinking of open arms- his mom died waiting, so she sings “waiting…” the crew is wondering why he didn’t just kill Polyphemus.
The crew wasn't 100% behind the turn to ruthlessness. When Odysseus tells them to drown the sirens, they go from singing "we are the man-made monsters" to singing "he is the man-made monster." They see this isn't the same man who they followed into war and they fear how far he may go to get home.
...I mean we are all here for it aren't we? The moment I realized that she doesn't even know the basics of the Odyssee I knew we were in for a show, all the trauma... but well need to be rutheless
I was cleaning my room and having this play in the background and when she said that I just started laughing cause I knew. I knew what was coming. I balled my eyes out when his mom started singing, and I almost cry every time I hear it.
oh Mason (The Prophet) is just as goofy as Jorge Actually I think everyone on Epic's cast is just as goofy as Jorge. Scylla's voice actress is such an adorable lady, she looks nothing like how she sounds as Scylla
at the end of thunder bringer when all the crew dies u can hear the piano solo from "my goodbye" that followed ody telling athena that she is alone, so he now alone too and understands what she felt when he screamed that to her.............heartbreaking
my Goodbye is one of the best songs because of this. Perfect foreshadowing. "One day you'll hear what I'm saying, one day you might understand--one day, but not today for after all you're *just a man*" Damn Ody. I like the other animatics where it shows Ody drifting off into the ocean as the ending song plays.
In song Scylla number 6 is very repetetive: •Scylla has 6 heads •Odysseus sings only 6 verses "The lair of Scylla" "This is our only way home" "Not much to say" "Eurylochus, light up 6 torches" "Row for your lives" "Iiii (in tune with Scylla)" •The motive "Deep down" is said 6 times • 6 torches were lit (if there is confusion, Odysseus said to lit 6 torches cuz Scylla will target only men with torches because in animatic she has ell/heat vision, and people also say he tried to kill Eurylochus too after he said the wind bag thing) •6 men died
Also, Scylla had six of those dramatically violent lyrics, separated into two sections of three by the first "we must do what it takes to survive" lyric
Most of these are connected to each other. 6 men died because 6 torches were lit and 6 specifically were lit because Scylla has 6 heads. But still, cool detail
Actually I’ve heard from a lot of people that he told eurylochus to light up six torches to have him choose who dies as punishment for opening the wind bag but eurylochus kept a torch
20:59 when Penelope rips off Ody’s headband, it’s actually Polites’ headband from earlier. It’s showing that he can’t greet the world with open arms anymore
Elpenor is the man who died at Circe but no one not even Odysseus or his crew knew until they made it to the underworld also he was originally going to have a part in the first song but it was cut out because it came off more comedic then Jay intended Here is the lines- Ensemble: Elpenor Elpenor: I died, and nobody noticed, I died and nobody cared Odysseus: Elpenor, how did this happen? When did you meet your despair? Elpenor: I drank wine from a chalice. On top of Circe's palace. And fell and broke my neck in shame. But what do you care? So many deaths happen under your reign. The good news at the end of Odysseus adventure in the underworld he did go back to give Elpenor a proper burial *Sad fact:* all the souls singing in the first song of the underworld saga are singing their last thoughts before death took them so they cannot see Odysseus and the crew In the original story Odysseus tried to hug his mom three times only to pass through her three times due to her being a ghost before he finally processed that she was dead *Sad fact:* like what was said in “Keep your friends close” they were right there close to Ithica only for the wind bag to open blowing them miles away and his mom was alive at that point so Odysseus wouldn’t have gone through this heartbreak if the wind bag hadn’t been opened Fun fact: Penelope’s instrument is a Viola but in suffering there isn’t a Viola hinting that this isn’t Penelope They’ve been on the island of cows for 9 days because Poseidon trapped them on it Scylla used to be a Nymph until she was mutated by Circe into what we see her now “Something approaches” “But Scylla has a cost.” Eurylacus and 42 crew members had no idea where they were heading except Odysseus who knew that Scylla had a cost 6 heads, 6 torches, and 6 men it was a necessary evil to save 36 men or else Scylla would have killed all of them The thing is Zues would have killed the crew and spared Odysseus regardless of if Odysseus chose to sacrifice himself because he was the only one who didn’t harm a cow so Zues was just fucking with him
And to add to that Circe fact, the reason why she cursed Scylla was because the man she loved loved Scylla, so Circe got jelly and that's why she did that to her. And if I recall correctly, Scylla in some interpretations is actually Poseidon's daughter. So he doesn't avoid her because she is a threat to him. Rather, he can't stand to see what she's become. That could also explain why Circe was willing to help after hearing Poseidon had it out for Ody.
I don't think that last bit is true for two reasons. Firstly, Zeus absolutely 100% knew what Ody would choose. But secondly, culturally the captain is responsible for his men. If Odysseus *did* choose to die for his crew, even the gods would see that as the debt paid fairly. In fact, it would be *expected* for Odysseus to take responsibility for his crew and accept punishment for them. That's what a captain is supposed to do. That's just how the culture is. The really hard-hitting part is that *Odysseus definitely knows this.* Just as Zeus knows what Odysseus will choose, Odysseus knows that Zeus really will let his crew go if Odysseus chooses to die. *That's* why Thunder Bringer is all about Zeus exposing Odysseus' pride. They both know what Odysseus is 'supposed' to do, and they both know that Odysseus isn't going to do it because he's too proud to accept dying there.
Something cool about the sirens is that you can tell it's not Penelope just based on the instruments because Penelope has a specific instrument to accompany her in every other song she's in but the sirens have different instruments
> odysseus says he'll become the monster >> UNBRIDLED GLEE > odysseus sacrifices the rest of his crew for the mere /chance/ of seeing penelope again >> UNBRIDLED 😧😧😧 this is it this is why we watch reaction content folks. i for one would love to see more analysis focused videos about epic once you've seen the whole thing.
I think she didn't even realize that Ody directly sacrificed six men with the torches. I watch all the reactions to accept that Jorge traumatised me and that I am now rutheless enough to enjoy the same thing happened to them.
Scylla is so good! To drive the point of "we are the same" home even more - hear how she keeps repeating "deep down"? All the way back in Just A Man, Odysseus says "Deep Down, I would drain the world to see my son and wife". The makings of the Odysseus we see in the Thunder Saga and onwards have been there from the beginning, but it took him being pushed over the edge time and again for him to finally give up trying to find other solutions. Love me a well developed set of writing :D
As a psychologist with a deep love for Jungian analysis, I love that Jay has mantained Odysseus' complexity as a character and gave it even more nuance to him. Looking back at this musical and seeing him spiral, seeing him being consumed by grief and pain, seeing him posturing and hiding from shame and guilt, seeing the lenghts he's willing to go for love, lenghts which he seemed to flip flop up on until this point, seeing him accept parts of himself we could always see were there, makes my appreciation for Jorge's writing grow even more
On a more lighthearted note, in different beast, Jay added "for about 12 years or so" because he made a mistake back in the circe saga on how many years it took them to get there
I'm just going to correct you on one thing: Helios is NOT Zues's son. He is a titan, and thus not a son of Zues. You're probably thinking of Apollo. Apollo is not the sun god. Apollo is the god of music and archery. The reason that Zues even bothered to punish Ody and his crew was because Helios threatened to send the Sun to the underworld.
@@kendrahein45 "taking over the sun chariot" is a Percy Jackson thing. The greeks always used Helios and Selene as the Sun and Moon. The romans later ascribed Apollo the sun aspect and Diana the moon after already having syncretized Artemis and Diana. This is about 700 years after Homer though so in the Odyssey the sun god is still very much Helios.
@@larsdewit6521there is syncretism within the classical Greek period, related to his epithets and how he is associated with light. It wasn’t necessarily important until the Romans folded Hellenism into their own mythos, but it was present
@@larsdewit6521in greek mythology both helios and apollo have drove the chariot, helios is the embodiment of the sun while apollo rules over it. Also Selene is the embodiment while Artemis, being Apollo’s twin, rules over it (i think so). They just have more recognizable titles that are more present in myths
@fannyfantasy3 I mean there are different myths at different points sure. But I can think of no point where these two rule joinlty over the sun as it were. And the first mention of Apollo as god of the sun is in Roman sources, specifically Cato I believe. My problem was more to the "handing over" bit. EDIT: I rechecked and it's even later. The first time we have written sources confirming Apollo as a sun god is in the writings of Cicero in 45BC, he is mentioned alongside Diana being godess of the moon. We have no written sources for Artemis ever being a moon godess and Greek!Apollo being a sun god Wich makes sense as Helios and Selene are old as balls and the sun and moon are things that are deified pretty early by most cultures. That being said while Diana is relatively old being a holdover from Rome's days before greek syncretism Apollo is a wholesale copy. Idk who the Roman sun god was before. I know they had Sol Invictus but I remember him either popping up in the AD's or being an aspect of Jupiter. Anyway long story short the Greek Apollo was never a sun God.
Somthing that i have to metion that does make the mother part so bitter sweet, is that its sung by Jorge's actual mother, and he has said that because of that, that part makes even him bawl
Idk if anyone noticed but in one of the lyrics in the horse and the infant when Zeus was singing “ He would burn your house and throne, he’ll find you wherever you go” sounds similar to when the siren in Suffering sings “ He will chase you high and low to find a place he’d never go.”
If you enjoy EPIC, there is another project that is similar in the works called Stories From The Styx, Greek Mythology Musical. Totally separate projects, but some familiar voices are a part of it. I believe the Part 1/2 is out later 2025.
3:24 557 were killed by Poseidon and Cyclops but there was one called Elpenor who died on Circe's island and nobody noticed. He had a role in underworld saga where we learn what happened to him but it was cut out.
@ Yeah but that’s a tear jerker, as in you’re extremely happy for Odysseus and his family. But the Underworld Saga is gut wrenching since Odysseus is being haunted by his failures and abandons the last shreds of his empathy.
The fact that in Scylla Odysseus purposely sacrificed those 6 men is crazy. Scylla acknowledging that they're the same breed of ruthlessness was just amazing 🙂↕️
I haven't even finished the reaction, but I'm just gonna say it. Watching your reactions is making me enjoy this musical just as much or even more than the first I watched it. Hearing all your insights and thoughts of what's happening, happened or about to happen is so fascinating to me. Since long ago I've enjoyed good storytelling, and EPIC is one if not the best project I've seen, I just love it so much and seeing you enjoy it this much makes me feel just how you describe it, heart beating and a whole lot of sensations! Seeing that you truly know what you're talking about with "Monster", and how those writing concepts you talk about end up being true, it makes me even want to pick up writing!!! I don't think I can truly explain how I truly feel right now, but this reaction specifically has just made my love for EPIC shine as bright as the very first day I started this amazing journey.
Another note about the Eurylochus' perspective regarding the scylla situation is that due to the beeswax in their ears no one except odysseus knew their destination. When ody said "but scylla has a cost" in suffering, he was already aware that this wasn't an opponent to fight but to appease using his men. That's why Eurylochus begged to be wrong in mutiny because he didn't want to believe his best friend and brother would willingly lead his men to die without telling them or even pretending to put up a fight.
Fun Fact! Odysseus' mom is voiced by Jorge's acutal mom. Additional fun fact, it took her many tries to sing that without crying because she kept thinking about herself and her son. Extra fun fact, the spirits in the underworld can't see the living and simply repeat their last thoughts in their heads as they died, which means Ody's crew died questioning him, Polites died still praying for Ody to keep open arms and Athiclea (Ody's mom) died waiting for him to return. Fun facts! (No I'm not crying).
28:20 I don’t really think it’s that the crew is inhumane. As you probably know, each character has an instrument that backs up their vocals. Poseidon has trumpets, Penelope has the viola (also fun fact: you son’t hear violin in “Suffering” because it’s not Penelope!), Athena has piano, Odysseus has guitar, etc. For Eurylochus, he doesn’t have an instrument. The “instrument” that accompanies Eurylochus is Odysseus’s (kinda Eurylochus’s) crew. Thats why whenever Eurylochus thinks something, the crew backs him up; they’re his back-up vocals. But now that Odysseus has scared Eurylochus into not objecting his actions (end of “Luck Runs Out”), the crew will follow Odysseus’s command, much like Eurylochus.
In the thunder bringer animatic you can notice how Eurylochus is the only person who doesn't try to attack ody before Zeus strikes because he's accepted his fate.
just so you know the line about 558 men is because of elpeanor who died at circes palace and originally had a song in the underworld saga but jorge cut it
36:25 I just realized this part’s “Please don’t tell me you’re about to do what I think you’ll do” and “This is the the home of the sun god” mirrors Eurylochus’ part in Luck Runs Out. Actually, I noticed a lot of Mutiny mirrors Luck Runs Out after Odysseus gets stabbed (such as the “how much longer must we suffer now” follows the same rhythm as “how much longer till your luck runs out” and other similar lyrics), which is probably because they have similar themes of not messing with gods
17:52 I really like to take this part of gigi's animation as showing us how becoming the monster came from outside, since the shadow figure doesn't comes from his shadow but it almost seems like it falls on him, but the choise to actually become it was purely made by Odysseus when taking that hand
I actually like when you stop the video and starts to talk about narrative structures and whatnot it makes me stick more to the reaction, and it's something relevant too, it's not like you're just yapping nonstop like other reactors do, really like it. The fact that you're invested in the explanation also makes it so much better.
The cool thing about _real_ Greek Tragedies™️ is that when it's over, it's so heart-breakingly, _gut-wrenchingly_ clear that thing could never ended any other way. The protagonist might change in some ways, they might learn lessons, they might accomplish goals and change their perspective, _but a leopard can't change its spots._ _You can't fundamentally change the traits that are written into your very soul, the parts of you that make you unique, and those might be the reason that your life falls apart._ *_Remember when we were cheering Odysseus on for being 'the ultimate wifeguy'?_* *_What exactly has changed?_*
I like to interpret the part where ody is thinking about his choices in thunder bringer 42:24 , as the soldiers playing a game of “tug of war” with the voice of penelope (the only reason Odysseus wants to live) in Odysseus’s head to convince him to let them live. Here Zeus once again pulls off his infamous move, which he pulled once before in “The Horse and the Infant” where he gave ody an impossible choice, either he kills the Infant or the Infant would live and “the gods will make him know” and he will end up killing both penelope and telemachus. And of course in both options ody choose what’s good for himself. That’s where Zeus “Undresses” ody’s “Pride”. Why did the crew choose “Just a Man” to sing in this scenario? Here the crew were trying to make Odysseus remember his sanity and mercy like in Just a Man since they’re the same lyrics, and he first said them in that song because he was feeling guilty and empathetic, so the crew want to remind him of how he used to be before he embraced the monster. While on the other hand, the vision of peenlope this time looks yellow unlike it's usual pink look, that's because it's not a normal vision that ody has of her. But one that was made by Zeus himself (hence the color yellow) so that he ensures that ody picks himself giving Zeus the win of him undressing ody's pride. It's all a game of Zeus showing off ody's self righteousness.
18:56 I absolutely love how Ody puts his foes in the right and himself in the wrong. It means so much for his character lol and what he says actually makes sense
No Longer You is my absolute favorite song in the entire musical. It's BEAUTIFUL, and the hints to the next sagas in it are just phenomenal. The chants in the background near the end of the song literally give hints/spoilers toward the next few sagas. Its absolutely wonderfully done. I won't spoil what the chants are, but I recommend looking it up once you finish the entire musical!
39:02 in the live stream, it Eurylichus is given a torch by Odysseus, and was tasked with giving the other 5 to people he trusted. Apart of the anger he feels is that not only did Ody sacrifice him but had him choose the other 5 sacrifices aswell
The reason why i love watching her reactions specifically (along with the reason that it feels like I'm experiencing it for the first time with her) is because she never pauses the songs. She listens to it fully and gets the full experience uninterrupted. It heals something in me. I can't wait for her reaction to the last 3 sagas, especially the Ithaca saga!!!😆😆
i just wanna point out that Eurylochus is being quite hipocritical in mutiny considering its because he opened the bag that the storm stopped them and the men died, so going through Scylla is also partly his fault since if the bag was kept closed they wouldve never had to go through Scylla, plus he also remarks on all of the times Odysseus's wits saved them despite all of them being times that he second guessed, doubted or confronted him, same as hes doing now
Fun fact about the underworld, in the mythology it doesn’t matter who you are or what you have done, human souls will never go to Olympus all of the dead always going to end up in the underworld, so many levels to the underworld and it’s not as horrible as some people depicted it as, it’s pretty peaceful (unless you are a Tyrant, murderer, or extremely violent and just a general horrible person they get punished for eternity) just wanted to leave a fun fact about that :3
So Odysseus tried to embrace the “open arms” for Polites, but in monster, when Penelope takes Polites headband is a symbol like Penelope saying “I don’t care what you do, just come back home” and that’s why he will become the monster, he threw the guilt away and he didn’t hesitate on scarifying 6 men (6 torches, a torch per man, that’s why Eurylochous starts mutiny. Odysseus did sacrificed 6 men) and he also sacrificed the rest of the crew, because he will do anything to get back home, no matter what. He doesn’t care about “open arms” no more.
Polites tells Ody to lead with open arms in the song open arms which contradicts what Athena tell Ody and she tries to tell him that in Warrior of the Mind but doesn’t listen to her in remember them which leads to my goodbye
To give context His mother was alive when he left and, during Keep your friends close it’s believed that the ship got close enough to the island that his mom saw the ship. However, once the wind bag is opened the ship is whisked away. I don’t remember if this is in the myth or not, but his mother saw this, believed her son had died, and either died from the grief or killed herself by jumping from the cliff. I could be wrong, it has been a long time since I read the myth, that’s just what I remember/have seen people bring up Odysseus mother is also voiced by Jorge’s mother
Also in Scylla, the reasons for the torches is Odysseus essentially had Eurylochus pick out six men that would die as sacrifices so they could escape. She would essentially just take the ones with the torches if you noticed in the song. If they fought, which if you notice Eurylochus was preparing to do when he reached for his sword, they all would’ve died. At the end, leading into Mutiny, Eurylochus realized this
Love the video! My take on Scylla is Ody orders the men to light up six torches after he learns of the wind bag betrayal. Which draws the monster to the light and devours all six men. Ody played Poseidon's move by killing people that crossed him so he wouldn't be crossed again. If you re-watch the animated video of Scylla the only men to die are the ones wielding the light.
Oh Poleteus (spelling?) “Open arms part” is gonna show up several more times, and it’s gonna become increasingly more contrasting. There is a definite evolution in the meaning of that sentence for Odysseus
Oh I hope the underworld saga isn’t too sad She exclaimed hopefully Little did she know It was a creature A creature feature Featuring Extreme sadness😔😔😭😭😭
Eurylochus in the Thunder Saga: "How could you forsake 6 members of our crew like that?!" Eurylochus in the Circe Saga: 👀👀👀 EDIT: I just made a joke y'all. Idk why there's so much debate around it, just poked fun at something. I'm not heavily criticizing Eurylochus, plus I'm not the first and only one to make the joke. Plus, I know Eurylochus's character and I don't paint him as this ultra-hypocrite bad guy, both him and Ody have their flaws. All I'm saying is every character can be poked fun at, it's all in good fun.
it was either that or death of all 43 men (+Odysseus) so- [[[That, and there's a difference between potentially forever stuck as Pigs-Men Vs. actual men who didn't know they were gonna die-]]]
He specifically points out that Odysseus specifcally was the one who left behind no man and fighting Circe was an incredibly stupid and uncessary thing to do without hermes odysseus would have died and then later the whole crew would have died likely due to either siren or poseidon
I dont know if you noticed but when ody said “light up six touches” he was giving eurilachaus (idk how to spell his name) the choice of the six people who would be eaten by scylla, him being one if them
33:58 In Ody's defense, he asked EURYLOCHUS to light up six torches right after the confession. In my headcannon, he tried to get rid of the traitor. 😅
In Eurylochus' defense, Odysseus could have handled the whole Scylla episode a lot better. Even in the original Odyssey (if I'm remembering correctly) the crew knew about Scylla, but they didn't have any better option. Odysseus would have shown much more trust in his crew if he had discussed it with them first, and made it clear there didn't seem to be another way. That would allow them to go in knowing what to expect, and in turn they'd keep their trust in Odysseus, as well as allow them to brainstorm other ideas (for instance, does Scylla only accept humans or could they give her animals instead? Could the crew that decided they didn't want to risk it be dropped off on an island while those determined to go home could continue into Scylla's lair? Could they make a plan to try to diminish the number of casualties? Even if things went wrong, the crew would still trust and respect Odysseus, and he would have shown he respected them in return.) Instead, Odysseus let them get blindsided and showed a happy willingness to kill his friends at his whim. Friends who trusted him and believed he was working in their best interests. In a modern context, If a squad of men were in a war and trusted their leader, who suddenly let a crowd of them get murdered INTENTIONALLY without warning or discussing things with them, why would they ever trust him again? Damn right the others would feel betrayed and mutiny. And for good reason too - that guy just showed he's not fit for a leadership position, much less a position to be respected or trusted. Again if Odysseus had simply trusted his men and discussed the full situation in the beginning, thus giving showing he cared about their opinions and respected their autonomy, they may have all willingly sailed into Scylla's lair without any fallout afterwards. Of course, Odysseus proved his men right and showed that he wasn't trustworthy in the next song when he killed them all for his own selfish goals. If he had just been straight with them from the beginning, that wouldn't have to happen. So yeah. This isn't an example of a leader making a tough decision and Eurylochus not being able to understand that. It's a very clear example of Odysseus illustrating selfishness and poor leadership, and mutiny was a very obvious outcome.
I thought in the Odyssey (i haven’t read but i’ve heard) that he doesn’t tell his crew in fear they’d hide and wouldn’t be able to pass through. Just that the torches weren’t there so no one was specifically chosen and it was at random. Personally, I see that talking abt requiring 6 people to die and saying your death might be soon isn’t any better and would have been worse off. In the end Eurylochus was as valid in his choices and reactions as Odysseus, Eury was grieving and saw this gap between communication of the crew and captain, and Odysseus was left with a decision between Charybdis/facing Poseidon or Scylla and he chose Scylla which guarantees survival of some. I do see your point and this is exactly what Eurylochus saw but the solution might not work, especially with the distress between the crew and Odysseus as we had seen in “Keep Your Friends Close”
I mean, two things can be true at once. OD can be an awful leader in some instances, but Eury also did really do something stupid they both did and it caused lives in response.
@@scedrastoffel5142 Yeah, but Eurylochus didn't do it on purpose. If Odysseus had no idea what Scylla would do or that she was there I'd be forgiving to him too. For instance I don't blame him or Polites for the cyclops incident. What Eury did was stupid but intent is a major part of it too - he didn't intend for the crew to die and clearly felt horrible about it.
12:02 the person who plays Tiresias (the prophet) is Mason Olshavsky. He along with everyone else who was cast had been cast via TikTok and are amazing. A little more than half of the cast have their own tracks that are AMAZING. Troy (Hemes), Tegean/TE/MO (Athena), and Mason all have amazing songs.
I just wanna tell you since I have seen some people get confused: but the wisdom saga is the first time we follow a character that's not Odysseus. The first song Legendary is Telemachus singing not (young) Odysseus. I just wanna say it since their voices sound incredibly similar lol
One interesting thing is that every character has its own instrument. Penelope is the Viola, Ody is the guitar and Eurylochus is the crew choir. You can see the exact moment that the mutiny happens, the electric guitar starts to play for Eurylochus. Another point is that you can see that Penelope is not real because there is no Viola in the entire song(the bee wax mixed with the Syrens' magic, and instead of the Viola, you can hear Polite's instrument, the mallet).
3:28 yes 558 7 originally died to the cyclops Poseiden killed 550 And Elpenor fell off of Circe's Palace drunk. Elpenor was a character who in the original mythos was forgotten and he played a big role in the musical originally only for his songs to ultimately be cut from the whole thing. You can see Elpenor on the roof of Circe's palace in Gigi's version of "there are other ways" right after she frees the men
2 short notes. 1: In the underworld the dead sings the last thing on their minds. So that means Polities last thought as he got whacked was "Open arms". 2: Scylla only ate the men holding torches, so Ody chose who was sacrificed/paid to pass Scylla
Ody didn't choose who died. It's worse than that. "Eurylochus, light up six torches." He made Eurylochus do it for him... and he probably expected Eurylochus to keep one for himself.
You are easily one of my favorite reactors to this musical (an, shamelessly, I have watched in the double digits of reactors for EPIC). I LOVE hearing storytelling analysis and musical analysis and yours has been the most insightful thus far... (I also adore your personality). Instant sub!
I’ve watched a bunch too, but I don’t think I’ve gotten double digits yet- any recommendations? (I’ve seen Scoot, InkWrites, CyYu, Mattables, Beck Leavesley obviously, and then Casper Fox and Mortius, of course)
@@NeuvilletteFan69 I have a number of different ones I enjoy for the different perspectives/interpretations of the story. I'd say my other favorites (aside from Beck and CF/Mort) are: Weeby Newz - Anime/weeb fangirl perspective Airier - Greek Mythology major (idk if he actually studied that, but he has a lot of mythology knowledge)
Thank you for talking about character arcs, and sharing your first reactions to this musical with us. It's special getting to see new eyes experience this Epic.
i love this form of reaction! most people pause a bunch to yap in the middle of the video but we can tell you REALLY get the story when you watch it in full and then talk after. i appreciate it.
This is the most Unbiased take I have seen on Odysseus vs Eurylochus debate for a first timer lol. I was waiting to see whose side she would take because there is no right answer! Also cant wait for her to relisten to Scylla abd realise "We are the same, you and I." Refers to Ody & Eury.
Am gonna say this if no one did, the vocals in the ending of no longer you are actualy the events that are following (the last two are spoilers) 'Siren song, scylla throat, mutiny, lightning bolt, fight poseidon, kill all the suitors for love!'
Her saying, "I hate zeus, but i love his voice," and me just thinking, "Wait till you meet Antinous.".
Ya… I hate how good it sounds
I highly recommend Ayron Alexander’s song “Haunt” if you want more where that came from. He’s got one of my favorite voices in the entire cast
LOOOLLLL I CANT STOP LISTENING TO HOLD THEM DOWN 😢❤❤❤
HAAHAHAHAA
Oh no…
Oh I just know the Ithaca saga will DESTROY her.
Oh it will
Same with the wisdom saga 😭
Same with all the sagas.
Yep
Who doesn’t get destroyed by the Ithaca Saga 😭
Gigi having Penelope remove Polites' headband from Odysseus as he finally decides to leave behind the open arms philosophy and embrace ruthlessness is just *chef's kiss*
until recently.... was somewhat concerned Penelope vanished at that point, too
@ I had watched the early recording of The Challenge LONG before The Underworld came out and I was SO confused when Anticlea started singing cause I knew that motif as Penelope's first 😅
Bro I had to reach watch that so many time to actually make sense of that part 😅
@@havenhillsongsSAME
Hey um not to be that but I said it first and it's right under ur comment
Just to be clear and transparent, when you went off in your literary description and talk, while you were saying 'I'm talking too long', I was actually riveted. Applying your knowledge and learning to these things, and teaching them to us, your audience, actually makes me all the more interested in sticking around to see other 'reacts' that you do.
Because they cease just being reactions, and start also being teaching moments, and I am a *SUCKER* for those. If this is the direction that you're leaning toward in your videos, you can count me as a loyal watcher for life. I really enjoy hearing you talk about these things and learning, as well as knowing what you're going into, and how the analysis pays off.
This comment is so sweet I really do appreciate it 🙏 Thank you for watching, it means a lot 🩷
I second this! It was one of my favorite parts! ❤
Me too, even if english is not my mother language, I enjoyed so much your explanations and teaching about the character that is Odiseo
Exactly! Share the knowledge, my brain desires it to be delivered as a teaching moment!
I second this. I want to hear your analysis based on your experience as a writer. I also enjoy hearing your predictions, even if they end up being wrong lol.
I am the monster rawr rawr rawr
Such inspiring words😭😭😭
Not Google offering to "Translate into English" 😭😭
@@beckleavesleyBAHAHA
Oh nahh💀💀
Omg hi beck
at 25:48 it's actually a in-fandom joke, as in Circe Saga Jorge unintentionally sang "12 long years since i have seen my wife" when in reality it was supposed to be 10 years
he realized the mistake too late to fix it, but then said that he can actually see Ody adding few years to get more pitty points from Circe
so in Different Beast he just fully rolls with the 12 years line making a joke out of it
fandom speculates that it's either because Ody is bad at math, or that Polites was the one responsible for calender and keeping track of everyone's birthdays, so now that he's gone they all are just clueless 😂
i love this, if theres any more interesting fandom trivia like this, please share ^°^
In different beast, it truely has been 12 years. The mistake was only in circe saga lol
@@xymaryai8283
Odysseus' Mom was voiced by Jorge's (Odysseus) real mother, which makes it more sad for me.
Spoiler, but not really, Hephaestus is voiced by his Dad!
Music time:
The reason Penelope's-siren-intro and motif sounded so weird is because it's mainly the siren doing the instrumental as well as the "Penelope" going up in pitch instead of mellowing down and then going down at the last bit!
That's how you can tell Penelope isn't really Penelope, nope, it's not that they don't have a daughter, it's PURELY because of the way they sang Penelope.
ALSOALSO
The explanation for Tiresia's singing is because he's spouting just whatever he sees because he sees all of time, ALL THE TIME.
That's why you can almost sing the song in a spoken manner just with some shifting in tone to hit those point.
@@_marou_ To add on to your thing about the Sirens, in Suffering, Penelope's instrumentent (Viola I believe) is missing. But you know what is there? Mallets, Polites' instrument. Bc of the wax in his ears, the Siren can't accurately figure out everything, for example the daughter instead of son and mallets instead of violas.
Also Jorge's sister actually voices one of the winions in Dangerous! So the whole fam gets a part lol
“I’ll teach you all the lessons your daddy never could-“
“Does that include math?”
"I love negative character arcs! I love them" 2 minutes of silence as she tries to deal with the trauma.
I'm having flashbacks to "give me that baby and I'd YEET IT OF A TOWER"
Reading this gave me em too 😂
lmao yup
I always hear that when he says the infant line in monster😂😂😂
“I don’t love anybody THATS MY POWER “
Love this callback
Neal Illustrator said that in Thunder Bringer, the cloud Zeus plays with was designed to look kinda like Penelope to really mess with Ody
the line "make her kingdom fall" made me thought of him talking about Penelope too, and I mean ...Zeus. When is he ever not a creep
Not to mention you can infer that Zeus turned into Penelope because he is that person, mentally toying with him.
@@LisaMartin-r1nlore accurate Zeus, fr
I’ve watched this version so many times and only in this time watching i noticed he also made the lightning bolt he creates between his hands to look like her silhouette too. 😳 such a great little detail.
I mean, I can see him do that. Are we surprised
Okay but the ad playing quietly at the end of thunder bringer was hilarious
FREAK OUT🗣️🗣️
@ what everyone wanted to do during this saga
yeah I thought the same xD
i heard that too and i was like stop those ads before god games starts playing
THANK YOU the way she was just in too much shock to acknowledge the fucking hilarity of it was getting to me haha
5:13 wait till she hears it’s Jay’s real mom
Yeah, that the women that sung as Odysseus's mother was the mother of Jay! And she sung so well!
WHAT
@@rianzitoumdosvarios I'm sorry you found out this way
@@rianzitoumdosvarios that could enter the "what" saga
And his dad also sings a character (who hasn’t showed up yet)
Something that will possibly make you sob:
The spirits in the underworld are saying what they thought right before they died- so right before he got clubbed by a cyclops, Polites was thinking of open arms- his mom died waiting, so she sings “waiting…” the crew is wondering why he didn’t just kill Polyphemus.
**sobing**
*
*sob*
@@ajoesq lol
Oh wait I never thought of that! That’s a cool observation!
The crew wasn't 100% behind the turn to ruthlessness. When Odysseus tells them to drown the sirens, they go from singing "we are the man-made monsters" to singing "he is the man-made monster." They see this isn't the same man who they followed into war and they fear how far he may go to get home.
everyone wants something until they find out it replaces what they already have
1:50 “So hopefully the Underworld Saga isn’t too bad”
I audibly said “Oh noooooo” at that part
She has no idea what she’s in for 😭😭😭
SAME
Same-
I was cackling
...I mean we are all here for it aren't we?
The moment I realized that she doesn't even know the basics of the Odyssee I knew we were in for a show, all the trauma... but well need to be rutheless
I was cleaning my room and having this play in the background and when she said that I just started laughing cause I knew. I knew what was coming. I balled my eyes out when his mom started singing, and I almost cry every time I hear it.
As the Oracle I predict she will cry!!
100%
Hee is the Profet with the answers we seek
First song got her 😭😭😭
So… about that
So…
oh Mason (The Prophet) is just as goofy as Jorge
Actually I think everyone on Epic's cast is just as goofy as Jorge.
Scylla's voice actress is such an adorable lady, she looks nothing like how she sounds as Scylla
Yeah the best part is Telemachus’s actor has the same if not WAY more goofiness and you really see that in the ithica live
Hermes's singer gets all the goofy credit but I love to see how it is a rule and not the outlier.
at the end of thunder bringer when all the crew dies u can hear the piano solo from "my goodbye" that followed ody telling athena that she is alone, so he now alone too and understands what she felt when he screamed that to her.............heartbreaking
my Goodbye is one of the best songs because of this. Perfect foreshadowing. "One day you'll hear what I'm saying, one day you might understand--one day, but not today for after all you're *just a man*"
Damn Ody. I like the other animatics where it shows Ody drifting off into the ocean as the ending song plays.
I didn’t know that😭
In song Scylla number 6 is very repetetive:
•Scylla has 6 heads
•Odysseus sings only 6 verses
"The lair of Scylla"
"This is our only way home"
"Not much to say"
"Eurylochus, light up 6 torches"
"Row for your lives"
"Iiii (in tune with Scylla)"
•The motive "Deep down" is said 6 times
• 6 torches were lit (if there is confusion, Odysseus said to lit 6 torches cuz Scylla will target only men with torches because in animatic she has ell/heat vision, and people also say he tried to kill Eurylochus too after he said the wind bag thing)
•6 men died
Also, Scylla had six of those dramatically violent lyrics, separated into two sections of three by the first "we must do what it takes to survive" lyric
6 men died because of the 6 torches but yea i see ur point
Most of these are connected to each other. 6 men died because 6 torches were lit and 6 specifically were lit because Scylla has 6 heads. But still, cool detail
probably unrelated but scylla's name also has 6 letters 🤔
Actually I’ve heard from a lot of people that he told eurylochus to light up six torches to have him choose who dies as punishment for opening the wind bag but eurylochus kept a torch
20:59 when Penelope rips off Ody’s headband, it’s actually Polites’ headband from earlier. It’s showing that he can’t greet the world with open arms anymore
"Guys I think Euryluchus is going to die"
Girl this is a retelling of thE ODYSSEY
Elpenor is the man who died at Circe but no one not even Odysseus or his crew knew until they made it to the underworld also he was originally going to have a part in the first song but it was cut out because it came off more comedic then Jay intended
Here is the lines-
Ensemble: Elpenor
Elpenor: I died, and nobody noticed, I died and nobody cared
Odysseus: Elpenor, how did this happen? When did you meet your despair?
Elpenor: I drank wine from a chalice. On top of Circe's palace. And fell and broke my neck in shame. But what do you care? So many deaths happen under your reign.
The good news at the end of Odysseus adventure in the underworld he did go back to give Elpenor a proper burial
*Sad fact:* all the souls singing in the first song of the underworld saga are singing their last thoughts before death took them so they cannot see Odysseus and the crew
In the original story Odysseus tried to hug his mom three times only to pass through her three times due to her being a ghost before he finally processed that she was dead
*Sad fact:* like what was said in “Keep your friends close” they were right there close to Ithica only for the wind bag to open blowing them miles away and his mom was alive at that point so Odysseus wouldn’t have gone through this heartbreak if the wind bag hadn’t been opened
Fun fact: Penelope’s instrument is a Viola but in suffering there isn’t a Viola hinting that this isn’t Penelope
They’ve been on the island of cows for 9 days because Poseidon trapped them on it
Scylla used to be a Nymph until she was mutated by Circe into what we see her now
“Something approaches”
“But Scylla has a cost.”
Eurylacus and 42 crew members had no idea where they were heading except Odysseus who knew that Scylla had a cost 6 heads, 6 torches, and 6 men it was a necessary evil to save 36 men or else Scylla would have killed all of them
The thing is Zues would have killed the crew and spared Odysseus regardless of if Odysseus chose to sacrifice himself because he was the only one who didn’t harm a cow so Zues was just fucking with him
And to add to that Circe fact, the reason why she cursed Scylla was because the man she loved loved Scylla, so Circe got jelly and that's why she did that to her. And if I recall correctly, Scylla in some interpretations is actually Poseidon's daughter. So he doesn't avoid her because she is a threat to him. Rather, he can't stand to see what she's become. That could also explain why Circe was willing to help after hearing Poseidon had it out for Ody.
I don't think that last bit is true for two reasons.
Firstly, Zeus absolutely 100% knew what Ody would choose.
But secondly, culturally the captain is responsible for his men. If Odysseus *did* choose to die for his crew, even the gods would see that as the debt paid fairly. In fact, it would be *expected* for Odysseus to take responsibility for his crew and accept punishment for them. That's what a captain is supposed to do. That's just how the culture is. The really hard-hitting part is that *Odysseus definitely knows this.* Just as Zeus knows what Odysseus will choose, Odysseus knows that Zeus really will let his crew go if Odysseus chooses to die.
*That's* why Thunder Bringer is all about Zeus exposing Odysseus' pride. They both know what Odysseus is 'supposed' to do, and they both know that Odysseus isn't going to do it because he's too proud to accept dying there.
Something cool about the sirens is that you can tell it's not Penelope just based on the instruments because Penelope has a specific instrument to accompany her in every other song she's in but the sirens have different instruments
Great catch! I hadn’t noticed that still. Jorge explains that he intentionally does that, just like the old Peter and the wolf.
@korihayden6083 I didn't catch it until Jorge released the short saying that
The music doesn't lie in Epic.
The vibes are off
If you're curious Penelope is a Viola and a string ensemble
> odysseus says he'll become the monster
>> UNBRIDLED GLEE
> odysseus sacrifices the rest of his crew for the mere /chance/ of seeing penelope again
>> UNBRIDLED 😧😧😧
this is it this is why we watch reaction content folks. i for one would love to see more analysis focused videos about epic once you've seen the whole thing.
I think she didn't even realize that Ody directly sacrificed six men with the torches.
I watch all the reactions to accept that Jorge traumatised me and that I am now rutheless enough to enjoy the same thing happened to them.
20:10 "we can always do a redemption arc" oh my sweet summer child
*hears a certain God's screams*
Once she is through all the Sagas we'll see how much of that child remains, after all I heard trauma builds character...
@jackwriter1908come on man it's more fun seeing the process happen
@jonathanzarate8806 true... some might call us even rutheless
@jackwriter1908 ahahaha, the absolute spittake I would've done if I'd been drinking after reading this. XD XD XD
Two words. The. Suitors. Prepare to rage- I will not spoil, but just know you will hate them down to your core.
Ody is a different beast now
Fun fact : it's believed the bow had a draw weight of 70 joules (about 125lbs)
Fun fact : it's believed the bow had a draw weight of 70 joules (about 125lbs)
Scylla is so good! To drive the point of "we are the same" home even more - hear how she keeps repeating "deep down"? All the way back in Just A Man, Odysseus says "Deep Down, I would drain the world to see my son and wife".
The makings of the Odysseus we see in the Thunder Saga and onwards have been there from the beginning, but it took him being pushed over the edge time and again for him to finally give up trying to find other solutions.
Love me a well developed set of writing :D
As a psychologist with a deep love for Jungian analysis, I love that Jay has mantained Odysseus' complexity as a character and gave it even more nuance to him. Looking back at this musical and seeing him spiral, seeing him being consumed by grief and pain, seeing him posturing and hiding from shame and guilt, seeing the lenghts he's willing to go for love, lenghts which he seemed to flip flop up on until this point, seeing him accept parts of himself we could always see were there, makes my appreciation for Jorge's writing grow even more
"my heart just died" she says, this early on. That's cute 🤣 this is where the pain really begins
Can we all take a moment to appreciate the way Beck put all the links in the description, W content creator
yessss!
On a more lighthearted note, in different beast, Jay added "for about 12 years or so" because he made a mistake back in the circe saga on how many years it took them to get there
I'm just going to correct you on one thing:
Helios is NOT Zues's son. He is a titan, and thus not a son of Zues. You're probably thinking of Apollo. Apollo is not the sun god. Apollo is the god of music and archery.
The reason that Zues even bothered to punish Ody and his crew was because Helios threatened to send the Sun to the underworld.
Well Apollo does take over the sun chariot at some point in time and therefore gets associated with the sun, but not by the time of the Odyssey
@@kendrahein45 "taking over the sun chariot" is a Percy Jackson thing. The greeks always used Helios and Selene as the Sun and Moon. The romans later ascribed Apollo the sun aspect and Diana the moon after already having syncretized Artemis and Diana.
This is about 700 years after Homer though so in the Odyssey the sun god is still very much Helios.
@@larsdewit6521there is syncretism within the classical Greek period, related to his epithets and how he is associated with light. It wasn’t necessarily important until the Romans folded Hellenism into their own mythos, but it was present
@@larsdewit6521in greek mythology both helios and apollo have drove the chariot, helios is the embodiment of the sun while apollo rules over it. Also Selene is the embodiment while Artemis, being Apollo’s twin, rules over it (i think so). They just have more recognizable titles that are more present in myths
@fannyfantasy3 I mean there are different myths at different points sure. But I can think of no point where these two rule joinlty over the sun as it were. And the first mention of Apollo as god of the sun is in Roman sources, specifically Cato I believe.
My problem was more to the "handing over" bit.
EDIT: I rechecked and it's even later. The first time we have written sources confirming Apollo as a sun god is in the writings of Cicero in 45BC, he is mentioned alongside Diana being godess of the moon. We have no written sources for Artemis ever being a moon godess and Greek!Apollo being a sun god
Wich makes sense as Helios and Selene are old as balls and the sun and moon are things that are deified pretty early by most cultures. That being said while Diana is relatively old being a holdover from Rome's days before greek syncretism Apollo is a wholesale copy. Idk who the Roman sun god was before. I know they had Sol Invictus but I remember him either popping up in the AD's or being an aspect of Jupiter.
Anyway long story short the Greek Apollo was never a sun God.
Somthing that i have to metion that does make the mother part so bitter sweet, is that its sung by Jorge's actual mother, and he has said that because of that, that part makes even him bawl
27:51 “the screams are crazy”
Ohhh just you wait for “600 Strike” and “Odysseus”
No spoilers, hold them down until they get to it
@@ForeverMadylet’s let her get a taste without spoilers
Genuinely one of the best fandoms ever. They make epic puns.
@@QanaCutiefacts
@@QanaCutie we’re just taking the suffering away from us with all the craziness
I'm glad someone else loves Scylla's singer, an absolutely amazing voice.
Idk if anyone noticed but in one of the lyrics in the horse and the infant when Zeus was singing “ He would burn your house and throne, he’ll find you wherever you go” sounds similar to when the siren in Suffering sings “ He will chase you high and low to find a place he’d never go.”
If you enjoy EPIC, there is another project that is similar in the works called Stories From The Styx, Greek Mythology Musical. Totally separate projects, but some familiar voices are a part of it. I believe the Part 1/2 is out later 2025.
3:24 557 were killed by Poseidon and Cyclops but there was one called Elpenor who died on Circe's island and nobody noticed. He had a role in underworld saga where we learn what happened to him but it was cut out.
Elpenor is my FAV character! He literally gets really drunk and falls off the roof of Circe’s palace :D
Also not all 557 died to Poseidon cause some died to the cyclops 👍
@KeiraCreatesCoolStuff oh yeah i forgot about that
🎵 I drank wine from a chalice, on top of Circe's palace, and fell and broke my neck in shame... 🎵
@@qwerty_qwerty 🎵But what do you care... So many deaths happen UNDER YOUR REIGN🎵
“So hopefully the Underworld Saga isn’t too bad” Haha, get ready for the most gut-wrenching saga of the lot.
So far
I’d say Ithaca saga takes the cake for me atleast
@ Yeah but that’s a tear jerker, as in you’re extremely happy for Odysseus and his family. But the Underworld Saga is gut wrenching since Odysseus is being haunted by his failures and abandons the last shreds of his empathy.
The fact that in Scylla Odysseus purposely sacrificed those 6 men is crazy. Scylla acknowledging that they're the same breed of ruthlessness was just amazing 🙂↕️
I haven't even finished the reaction, but I'm just gonna say it. Watching your reactions is making me enjoy this musical just as much or even more than the first I watched it. Hearing all your insights and thoughts of what's happening, happened or about to happen is so fascinating to me. Since long ago I've enjoyed good storytelling, and EPIC is one if not the best project I've seen, I just love it so much and seeing you enjoy it this much makes me feel just how you describe it, heart beating and a whole lot of sensations! Seeing that you truly know what you're talking about with "Monster", and how those writing concepts you talk about end up being true, it makes me even want to pick up writing!!! I don't think I can truly explain how I truly feel right now, but this reaction specifically has just made my love for EPIC shine as bright as the very first day I started this amazing journey.
Another note about the Eurylochus' perspective regarding the scylla situation is that due to the beeswax in their ears no one except odysseus knew their destination. When ody said "but scylla has a cost" in suffering, he was already aware that this wasn't an opponent to fight but to appease using his men. That's why Eurylochus begged to be wrong in mutiny because he didn't want to believe his best friend and brother would willingly lead his men to die without telling them or even pretending to put up a fight.
Fun Fact! Odysseus' mom is voiced by Jorge's acutal mom. Additional fun fact, it took her many tries to sing that without crying because she kept thinking about herself and her son.
Extra fun fact, the spirits in the underworld can't see the living and simply repeat their last thoughts in their heads as they died, which means Ody's crew died questioning him, Polites died still praying for Ody to keep open arms and Athiclea (Ody's mom) died waiting for him to return.
Fun facts! (No I'm not crying).
28:20 I don’t really think it’s that the crew is inhumane. As you probably know, each character has an instrument that backs up their vocals. Poseidon has trumpets, Penelope has the viola (also fun fact: you son’t hear violin in “Suffering” because it’s not Penelope!), Athena has piano, Odysseus has guitar, etc. For Eurylochus, he doesn’t have an instrument. The “instrument” that accompanies Eurylochus is Odysseus’s (kinda Eurylochus’s) crew. Thats why whenever Eurylochus thinks something, the crew backs him up; they’re his back-up vocals. But now that Odysseus has scared Eurylochus into not objecting his actions (end of “Luck Runs Out”), the crew will follow Odysseus’s command, much like Eurylochus.
In the thunder bringer animatic you can notice how Eurylochus is the only person who doesn't try to attack ody before Zeus strikes because he's accepted his fate.
just so you know the line about 558 men is because of elpeanor who died at circes palace and originally had a song in the underworld saga but jorge cut it
“Bringing Polites back is so perfect”
Just you wait 😭
“My heart just died” girl… u aren’t ready for the Ithaca saga.. it’s gon crush u😔🙏🙏
36:25 I just realized this part’s “Please don’t tell me you’re about to do what I think you’ll do” and “This is the the home of the sun god” mirrors Eurylochus’ part in Luck Runs Out. Actually, I noticed a lot of Mutiny mirrors Luck Runs Out after Odysseus gets stabbed (such as the “how much longer must we suffer now” follows the same rhythm as “how much longer till your luck runs out” and other similar lyrics), which is probably because they have similar themes of not messing with gods
17:52 I really like to take this part of gigi's animation as showing us how becoming the monster came from outside, since the shadow figure doesn't comes from his shadow but it almost seems like it falls on him, but the choise to actually become it was purely made by Odysseus when taking that hand
Beck: I hope the underworld saga isn't too emotional
also Beck: *starts bawling on the first song*
I actually like when you stop the video and starts to talk about narrative structures and whatnot it makes me stick more to the reaction, and it's something relevant too, it's not like you're just yapping nonstop like other reactors do, really like it. The fact that you're invested in the explanation also makes it so much better.
The cool thing about _real_ Greek Tragedies™️ is that when it's over, it's so heart-breakingly, _gut-wrenchingly_ clear that thing could never ended any other way. The protagonist might change in some ways, they might learn lessons, they might accomplish goals and change their perspective, _but a leopard can't change its spots._
_You can't fundamentally change the traits that are written into your very soul, the parts of you that make you unique, and those might be the reason that your life falls apart._
*_Remember when we were cheering Odysseus on for being 'the ultimate wifeguy'?_*
*_What exactly has changed?_*
I like to interpret the part where ody is thinking about his choices in thunder bringer 42:24 , as the soldiers playing a game of “tug of war” with the voice of penelope (the only reason Odysseus wants to live) in Odysseus’s head to convince him to let them live.
Here Zeus once again pulls off his infamous move, which he pulled once before in “The Horse and the Infant” where he gave ody an impossible choice, either he kills the Infant or the Infant would live and “the gods will make him know” and he will end up killing both penelope and telemachus. And of course in both options ody choose what’s good for himself. That’s where Zeus “Undresses” ody’s “Pride”.
Why did the crew choose “Just a Man” to sing in this scenario?
Here the crew were trying to make Odysseus remember his sanity and mercy like in Just a Man since they’re the same lyrics, and he first said them in that song because he was feeling guilty and empathetic, so the crew want to remind him of how he used to be before he embraced the monster.
While on the other hand, the vision of peenlope this time looks yellow unlike it's usual pink look, that's because it's not a normal vision that ody has of her. But one that was made by Zeus himself (hence the color yellow) so that he ensures that ody picks himself giving Zeus the win of him undressing ody's pride. It's all a game of Zeus showing off ody's self righteousness.
"I hope this saga isn't too sad"
One second later
"waaaaitiing....."
18:56 I absolutely love how Ody puts his foes in the right and himself in the wrong. It means so much for his character lol and what he says actually makes sense
He HUMANIZES the monsters he has faced, while DEHUMANIZING himself.
Not her commenting on his "dangerous fatal flaw and learning from it"...
Yeah... It got "a lit bit dangerous"!!!
XD
Bro that song immediately came to mind when she said that lol
He'll need a mindset change for sure
The story behind “12 years or so” in this musical always makes me giggle
Beck's attachment to the baby makes me wonder how much she would like Perimedes
The show must go on, give us a part four! The Ithaca saga is finally here!
i would love your red string analysis video ngl! learning so much from your reactions!!
No Longer You is my absolute favorite song in the entire musical. It's BEAUTIFUL, and the hints to the next sagas in it are just phenomenal. The chants in the background near the end of the song literally give hints/spoilers toward the next few sagas. Its absolutely wonderfully done. I won't spoil what the chants are, but I recommend looking it up once you finish the entire musical!
39:02 in the live stream, it Eurylichus is given a torch by Odysseus, and was tasked with giving the other 5 to people he trusted. Apart of the anger he feels is that not only did Ody sacrifice him but had him choose the other 5 sacrifices aswell
The reason why i love watching her reactions specifically (along with the reason that it feels like I'm experiencing it for the first time with her) is because she never pauses the songs. She listens to it fully and gets the full experience uninterrupted. It heals something in me.
I can't wait for her reaction to the last 3 sagas, especially the Ithaca saga!!!😆😆
At the end of Monster Penelope took off Polites' head band because he's no longer greeting the world with open arms. AND THEN NEXT SONG AHHH
FUN FACT the person who voices Odysseus’s mother is actually his mother in real life, which makes it even more heartbreaking
No Longer You is such an amazing song! 😍
i just wanna point out that Eurylochus is being quite hipocritical in mutiny considering its because he opened the bag that the storm stopped them and the men died, so going through Scylla is also partly his fault since if the bag was kept closed they wouldve never had to go through Scylla, plus he also remarks on all of the times Odysseus's wits saved them despite all of them being times that he second guessed, doubted or confronted him, same as hes doing now
Fun fact about the underworld, in the mythology it doesn’t matter who you are or what you have done, human souls will never go to Olympus all of the dead always going to end up in the underworld, so many levels to the underworld and it’s not as horrible as some people depicted it as, it’s pretty peaceful (unless you are a Tyrant, murderer, or extremely violent and just a general horrible person they get punished for eternity) just wanted to leave a fun fact about that :3
So Odysseus tried to embrace the “open arms” for Polites, but in monster, when Penelope takes Polites headband is a symbol like Penelope saying “I don’t care what you do, just come back home” and that’s why he will become the monster, he threw the guilt away and he didn’t hesitate on scarifying 6 men (6 torches, a torch per man, that’s why Eurylochous starts mutiny. Odysseus did sacrificed 6 men) and he also sacrificed the rest of the crew, because he will do anything to get back home, no matter what. He doesn’t care about “open arms” no more.
Polites tells Ody to lead with open arms in the song open arms which contradicts what Athena tell Ody and she tries to tell him that in Warrior of the Mind but doesn’t listen to her in remember them which leads to my goodbye
29:16 fun fact, the creator of this musical actually takes a lot of inspiration from video games when he writes songs so you were spot on abt that
cant wait till we all gather to see her cry after the underworld saga
Not from just that one
True
Having listened to the entire show now, I can definitely say that “No Longer You” is still my favorite song.
To give context
His mother was alive when he left and, during Keep your friends close it’s believed that the ship got close enough to the island that his mom saw the ship. However, once the wind bag is opened the ship is whisked away. I don’t remember if this is in the myth or not, but his mother saw this, believed her son had died, and either died from the grief or killed herself by jumping from the cliff. I could be wrong, it has been a long time since I read the myth, that’s just what I remember/have seen people bring up
Odysseus mother is also voiced by Jorge’s mother
Also in Scylla, the reasons for the torches is Odysseus essentially had Eurylochus pick out six men that would die as sacrifices so they could escape. She would essentially just take the ones with the torches if you noticed in the song. If they fought, which if you notice Eurylochus was preparing to do when he reached for his sword, they all would’ve died. At the end, leading into Mutiny, Eurylochus realized this
Love the video!
My take on Scylla is Ody orders the men to light up six torches after he learns of the wind bag betrayal. Which draws the monster to the light and devours all six men. Ody played Poseidon's move by killing people that crossed him so he wouldn't be crossed again.
If you re-watch the animated video of Scylla the only men to die are the ones wielding the light.
Something else to make you cry; Jay's mom played Ody's mom and they had to do multiple takes bc she kept crying :DD
Oh Poleteus (spelling?) “Open arms part” is gonna show up several more times, and it’s gonna become increasingly more contrasting. There is a definite evolution in the meaning of that sentence for Odysseus
Oh I hope the underworld saga isn’t too sad
She exclaimed hopefully
Little did she know
It was a creature
A creature feature
Featuring
Extreme sadness😔😔😭😭😭
The pure contrast between the beginning of the video and the end is both hilarious and understandable
I CAN NOT EVEN EXPLAIN HOW EXITED I AM GOR THIS!!!! PLEASE CONTINUE LISTENING TO EPIC!❤❤❤❤❤
Eurylochus in the Thunder Saga: "How could you forsake 6 members of our crew like that?!"
Eurylochus in the Circe Saga: 👀👀👀
EDIT: I just made a joke y'all. Idk why there's so much debate around it, just poked fun at something. I'm not heavily criticizing Eurylochus, plus I'm not the first and only one to make the joke. Plus, I know Eurylochus's character and I don't paint him as this ultra-hypocrite bad guy, both him and Ody have their flaws. All I'm saying is every character can be poked fun at, it's all in good fun.
EXACTLY-
it was either that or death of all 43 men (+Odysseus) so-
[[[That, and there's a difference between potentially forever stuck as Pigs-Men Vs. actual men who didn't know they were gonna die-]]]
Ody: You would have done the same!
Eurylochus: Omg this isn't about meeee 🙈
He specifically points out that Odysseus specifcally was the one who left behind no man and fighting Circe was an incredibly stupid and uncessary thing to do without hermes odysseus would have died and then later the whole crew would have died likely due to either siren or poseidon
@@vali4634 and if they fought Scylla they also would’ve died so.. what’s your point??
I dont know if you noticed but when ody said “light up six touches” he was giving eurilachaus (idk how to spell his name) the choice of the six people who would be eaten by scylla, him being one if them
33:58 In Ody's defense, he asked EURYLOCHUS to light up six torches right after the confession. In my headcannon, he tried to get rid of the traitor. 😅
In Eurylochus' defense, Odysseus could have handled the whole Scylla episode a lot better. Even in the original Odyssey (if I'm remembering correctly) the crew knew about Scylla, but they didn't have any better option. Odysseus would have shown much more trust in his crew if he had discussed it with them first, and made it clear there didn't seem to be another way. That would allow them to go in knowing what to expect, and in turn they'd keep their trust in Odysseus, as well as allow them to brainstorm other ideas (for instance, does Scylla only accept humans or could they give her animals instead? Could the crew that decided they didn't want to risk it be dropped off on an island while those determined to go home could continue into Scylla's lair? Could they make a plan to try to diminish the number of casualties? Even if things went wrong, the crew would still trust and respect Odysseus, and he would have shown he respected them in return.)
Instead, Odysseus let them get blindsided and showed a happy willingness to kill his friends at his whim. Friends who trusted him and believed he was working in their best interests.
In a modern context, If a squad of men were in a war and trusted their leader, who suddenly let a crowd of them get murdered INTENTIONALLY without warning or discussing things with them, why would they ever trust him again? Damn right the others would feel betrayed and mutiny. And for good reason too - that guy just showed he's not fit for a leadership position, much less a position to be respected or trusted. Again if Odysseus had simply trusted his men and discussed the full situation in the beginning, thus giving showing he cared about their opinions and respected their autonomy, they may have all willingly sailed into Scylla's lair without any fallout afterwards.
Of course, Odysseus proved his men right and showed that he wasn't trustworthy in the next song when he killed them all for his own selfish goals. If he had just been straight with them from the beginning, that wouldn't have to happen.
So yeah. This isn't an example of a leader making a tough decision and Eurylochus not being able to understand that. It's a very clear example of Odysseus illustrating selfishness and poor leadership, and mutiny was a very obvious outcome.
I thought in the Odyssey (i haven’t read but i’ve heard) that he doesn’t tell his crew in fear they’d hide and wouldn’t be able to pass through. Just that the torches weren’t there so no one was specifically chosen and it was at random.
Personally, I see that talking abt requiring 6 people to die and saying your death might be soon isn’t any better and would have been worse off. In the end Eurylochus was as valid in his choices and reactions as Odysseus, Eury was grieving and saw this gap between communication of the crew and captain, and Odysseus was left with a decision between Charybdis/facing Poseidon or Scylla and he chose Scylla which guarantees survival of some.
I do see your point and this is exactly what Eurylochus saw but the solution might not work, especially with the distress between the crew and Odysseus as we had seen in “Keep Your Friends Close”
I mean, two things can be true at once. OD can be an awful leader in some instances, but Eury also did really do something stupid they both did and it caused lives in response.
@@scedrastoffel5142 Yeah, but Eurylochus didn't do it on purpose. If Odysseus had no idea what Scylla would do or that she was there I'd be forgiving to him too. For instance I don't blame him or Polites for the cyclops incident. What Eury did was stupid but intent is a major part of it too - he didn't intend for the crew to die and clearly felt horrible about it.
The silence and shock through the underworld is such a vibe, the underworld saga is probably the saga I go back to the most I love it
12:02 the person who plays Tiresias (the prophet) is Mason Olshavsky. He along with everyone else who was cast had been cast via TikTok and are amazing. A little more than half of the cast have their own tracks that are AMAZING. Troy (Hemes), Tegean/TE/MO (Athena), and Mason all have amazing songs.
MICO (Telemachus)too, although she hasn’t reacted to the wisdom saga yet haha
@plutoisaplanet_ I love MICO's work!
Never apologize for talking too much I love hearing the literary analysis of this story from someone who’s more well versed in writing.
I just wanna tell you since I have seen some people get confused: but the wisdom saga is the first time we follow a character that's not Odysseus. The first song Legendary is Telemachus singing not (young) Odysseus. I just wanna say it since their voices sound incredibly similar lol
fr ive seen people say they thought legendary was sung by ody lmao
I've never seen anyone confused by this lol
@LydiaFiore-q9b The dude that thought it was some Dr Who thing
Bro I thought it was Ody too at first lol
The second I hear the first ~waiting~ I start sobbing without fail
We are 🎶waiiiiting waiting🎶
Fr
One interesting thing is that every character has its own instrument. Penelope is the Viola, Ody is the guitar and Eurylochus is the crew choir. You can see the exact moment that the mutiny happens, the electric guitar starts to play for Eurylochus.
Another point is that you can see that Penelope is not real because there is no Viola in the entire song(the bee wax mixed with the Syrens' magic, and instead of the Viola, you can hear Polite's instrument, the mallet).
3:28 yes 558
7 originally died to the cyclops
Poseiden killed 550
And Elpenor fell off of Circe's Palace drunk.
Elpenor was a character who in the original mythos was forgotten and he played a big role in the musical originally only for his songs to ultimately be cut from the whole thing. You can see Elpenor on the roof of Circe's palace in Gigi's version of "there are other ways" right after she frees the men
2 short notes.
1: In the underworld the dead sings the last thing on their minds. So that means Polities last thought as he got whacked was "Open arms".
2: Scylla only ate the men holding torches, so Ody chose who was sacrificed/paid to pass Scylla
Ody didn't choose who died. It's worse than that. "Eurylochus, light up six torches." He made Eurylochus do it for him... and he probably expected Eurylochus to keep one for himself.
You are easily one of my favorite reactors to this musical (an, shamelessly, I have watched in the double digits of reactors for EPIC). I LOVE hearing storytelling analysis and musical analysis and yours has been the most insightful thus far... (I also adore your personality). Instant sub!
I’ve watched a bunch too, but I don’t think I’ve gotten double digits yet- any recommendations? (I’ve seen Scoot, InkWrites, CyYu, Mattables, Beck Leavesley obviously, and then Casper Fox and Mortius, of course)
@@NeuvilletteFan69
I have a number of different ones I enjoy for the different perspectives/interpretations of the story. I'd say my other favorites (aside from Beck and CF/Mort) are:
Weeby Newz - Anime/weeb fangirl perspective
Airier - Greek Mythology major (idk if he actually studied that, but he has a lot of mythology knowledge)
@ …I knew I was forgetting some, I’ve watched both of them LMAOOOOOO I really have watched a lot
Thank you for talking about character arcs, and sharing your first reactions to this musical with us. It's special getting to see new eyes experience this Epic.
"[...] I'm in a very emotional state right now... So hopefully the Underworld Saga isn't too sad!"
The first song of the Underworld Saga:
i love this form of reaction! most people pause a bunch to yap in the middle of the video but we can tell you REALLY get the story when you watch it in full and then talk after. i appreciate it.
This is the most Unbiased take I have seen on Odysseus vs Eurylochus debate for a first timer lol.
I was waiting to see whose side she would take because there is no right answer!
Also cant wait for her to relisten to Scylla abd realise "We are the same, you and I." Refers to Ody & Eury.
Am gonna say this if no one did, the vocals in the ending of no longer you are actualy the events that are following (the last two are spoilers)
'Siren song, scylla throat, mutiny, lightning bolt, fight poseidon, kill all the suitors for love!'
Gigi is the animator who Jorge (Epic’s creator) chose to animate his songs, and gave them reference videos for each song
Not ready for the next 2 sagas