what discussion, there are topics both of them wouldn't touch, and people they would never debate or have conversation with. Both are just a gatekeepers, no wonder they are still allowed on youtube while others are banned
I admit I worry he is overdoing it and might need to ease in more. But maybe that's just what he needs is the intellectual stimulation. I just don't want him to go back where he was.
@@KrisBellemare That's a legit point, and I agree. At the same time I wonder if this kind of intellectual engagement might be a form of "physical therapy" for his ongoing psychological recovery.
Focus? Dude was 80% of the way through six different conversations the whole time. He's always had a propensity to wheel off on tangents of tangents, but I'm 40 minutes in and he sounds downright methed up. It's high level meth speak, but damn the guy needs to cool it.
@@CBT5777 Whats the problem with that ? You just die pointless ? No, you search any way for a cure for your health, as being dead is the worse outcome for any individual.
@temple of doom, he recognized what was happening and took the steps to get better. He was responsible for his health with the help of his family. Seems to be being responsible for your life and choices is exactly what he preaches.
@@CBT5777 benzodiazepene addiction is nearly impossible to beat. Withdrawal is often fatal. I'm glad he did what he could to stop. At first he looked fucking horrible
Jordan is a man of focus, commitment, sheer will... I once saw him kill three SJW's during a lecture... with an archetype, with a f&%$ing archetype. Then suddenly one day he asked to leave.
Bret is an amazing host cause he's always so willing to hear out his guest. There were a few times that Jordan jumped in to clarify a question or a point and Bret would stop and patiently listen and then change his response rather than just going back to where he was. You can learn so much from this podcast, but how to have an intelligent and useful conversation is the main thing for me. Thank you both!
@@matthewbarber4505 the frisbee analogy he was about to make was the main one I can recall, but it's still admirable that he's in a conversation to hear what Jordan has to say and then add in where he can.
But I found it funny that they were practically arguing about morals lmao that's what most Drs and people like that tend to include into there studies, we humans also have morals, for example, "I know my tribe leader beheaded my cousins after him stealing, looks like I'm not stealing or step out of line" like how does he not include that, that's what limits his understanding on jordans points
But all in all, I respect how they respond to each other, I wish I had more conversations like that because a lot of people get too many feelings involved when information is more vital
This is a beautiful conversation that proves you can have many multiple disagreements in a conversation while still having the utmost respect for one another.
I used to think I agreed with JB about everything. When I first saw bret on the Joe rogan interview with the 3 of them he was in disagreement with Jordan on many things. I thought I don't like this guy. I've since been working my way through all the dark horse podcasts, I love brett and Heather discussing subjects. I hope they both know how much we enjoy them taking the time to put the work in for them. Such great minds finally some people too aspire too.
and ultimately find common ground, a sense of shared purpose despite different routes to the destination. Something to inspire both sides of a political spectrum. It gives hope that some intelligent thinkers can diffuse the cultural timebomb that is ready to go off!
This is the first conversation I’ve seen Jordan in post-illness where he seemed entirely like his old self. Animated, enthusiastic, confident ... really enjoyed this.
Jordan Peterson is a sensitive. Jordan is still feeling the effects of his illness. It is with the help of friends, like Bret Weinstein, that he is recovering. I do not anticipate Jordan Peterson will have any interviews with the left wing media any time soon. At the same time I’d like to see interviews with Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro.
@@cbalan777 that's the point. We're missing out on all of that ancient wisdom because we are smart enough to disprove most of the mythology that comes along with it. As Jordan likes to say, we are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
@@yo_its_devo I don't think it's just about a rational mindset being dismissive of stories, and thus losing wisdom, but also the passion for mythologies themselves. They don't see the intrinsic value. They say they care, but they really don't. I've arrived at this perspective because I'm a story teller. I tell someone I'm working on an epic story and they "Meh". I ask for people to fund the creation of my art and they ask "Why would anyone support you?" It's exceedingly difficult to get people interested, which is terribly frustrating for me, because I'm a super rare artist and what I can offer is at risk of disappearing.
@@cbalan777 what Christianity does to bolster it's mythology is establish saints, great people who sacrificed, influenced and overcame, then passed down their wisdom. We in the West have our canonical thinkers and stories which is much more murky and morally ambiguous than the Christian saints and gospels, and old testament but still far better than nothing. However we don't talk about them, the canon is almost the sole resource of scholars, we have almost entirely removed moral education from our children's lives, they don't understand there are great men and women who can give them a lift up on to their shoulders. Instead our children are taught everyone before them was a dumb backwards bigot.
4:30 writing as thinking 6:50 on evil 9:25 the dangerous argument 16:40 the evolution of sacrifice 20:45 looking into the darkness 21:38 the line dividing man from beast 24:01 on consciousness 26:03 human innovation 30:15 the evolution of religion/ on truth 35:00 the scientific narrative 35:57 hierarchies 40:15 on teleology 42:11 servitude to the gene 44:57 the problem with evolutionary biology 45:59 cultural evolution 46:14 lineage selection 52:47 genes vs consciousness 1:00:37 on inhibition 1:06:57 integration 1:13:44 the modern problem 1:16:30 the problem with cultural evolution 1:23:23 marxist utopia's 1:26:36 equality of outcome 1:27:56 bitcoin 1:33:30 retooling the system/ on growth 1:38:15 getting past the current landscape 1:39:40 spandrels 1:41:42 human nature vs malleability 1:44:36 personal vs collective responsibility 1:47:30 black conservatives 1:48:21 zero sum 1:50:21 corrupt systems 1:51:51 demonizing competence and it's effect on children 1:58:07 is bias effecting their perspective on the culture war 2:00:12 on self deception 2:03:48 wokification of the corporate world 2:08:43 censorship 2:10:25 cancelling people/ dr seuss
I am an Evergreen graduate and was at school when we had the infamous "takeover." It was sad, pathetic really. I love my school and hope that they do not descend into chaos. Since I've graduated I've tried deprogramming the liberal agenda that was shoved down my throat. I have more good things to say about the college then poor, but the way the college handled it's affairs was disgusting. They are doing a complete disservice to the students, like myself, that pay good money to attend their college. I"m thankful for the courage that Peterson and Weinstein have in shedding light on these matters. Thank you Peterson and thank you Bret, for speaking your truth and giving voice to so many students that feel the same but are to afraid to voice their own opinions, because evidently that's not what happens on college campuses anymore.
What percentage of students, would you say, joined in the angry mob? How many students at Evergreen? Seems to me that it might be a minority who wanted to wreak havoc.
@@mumpygumboo8554 It's always the loud minority. They seem much larger than they are due to how loud they get. Idk about evergreen, but at my college, it's about 15-20% of the students who behave in a similar manner. Shutting down opinions they dont like, making ridiculous demands all the time. The problem is that most of these students in the "loud minority" are backed by radical professors who encourage them any chance they get. Administrators are either on board or have their hands tied and too scared to take action
I simply put on blackface go into town and experience peoples reactions - I'm not joking its a total distraction from any negative thoughts as all people gang together in condemnation of me - it puts things in perspective that no matter how bad your life gets - people hate black people more - I'm not racist I understand its a compliment to black people that I walk in their shoes - but they don't seem to like a mirror being held up - why? god only knows makeup is just that - depression cured
@@howiefelterup329 Yes, that's what I figured. I think Weinstein likes to pull out the wedge issues and make out that there's more "bad actors" than really exist. True, many are crazed and we need to take that into account, but moreover, we should look at the reasons why are they so rangy tangy? What has society done to fail so many?
@@mumpygumboo8554 The percentage % is not the issue, Mumpy. It's the fact that a sizeable mob, maybe 300, were allowed to threaten, destroy, detain, silence, and simply wreak havoc on a college campus, with no consequences. Imagine if you were a child and your Dad went to work in a place as an education professional, and was treated like THAT. The cops stood down for God's sake. I live in and grew up in a city that has 44,000 college students. In 1970, FOUR of those 44,000 were able to blow up a Math Research Science Bld with a fertilizer bomb. Severely wounded three people and killed one researcher.
I LOVE how patient Brett is. He just gives JBP room to express himself, then gently guides and probes. Such a good interviewer. Love these guys and am grateful for them. Two of the best sense-makers we have.
So greatful to be able to listen to discussions like this at the touch of a button. Never in history has access to great minds been so freely available. Thank you!
It's amazing. In my day you had to go to a college or the library. You had to wait for someone to write a book in order to know what they thought. Today we can get them instantly, unfiltered. Amazing.
Yes. And yet the percentage of online users taking advantage of this bounty is relatively minuscule compared with the percentage that would instantly tune it out if they happened to stumble across it. Inability to process and integrate this sort of data leads to the worst kind of inequality, and I'm not sure what can ever be done about it. What for some are nuggets of wisdom, for too many others are simply opaque little white marbles, 'pearls before swine' who, sadly, with each internet hour invested fall further and further behind those who possess intellectual and educational advantages to begin with.
In the words of Obi wan kenobi, "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." It could be, "if you cancel me on campus, I shall get a podcast and become more popular than you can possibly imagine."
He wasn’t almost dead, my god his fans really need to stop commenting on his medical past, they’re emotionally compromised and they have no idea what they’re talking about, every single time you guys comment on his health, it’s just so off base abs so cringe, trust me, I went through what he did, with far less, I know exactly what I’m talking about.
True! I simply put on blackface go into town and experience peoples reactions - I'm not joking its a total distraction from any negative thoughts as all people gang together in condemnation of me - it puts things in perspective that no matter how bad your life gets - people hate black people more - I'm not racist I understand its a compliment to black people that I walk in their shoes - but they don't seem to like a mirror being held up - why? god only knows makeup is just that - depression cured
Same . But I can’t think the way they do. But I can break their conversation down in pieces. Basically backwards. But yeah I hear you. All my friends are postmodernism
I am blessed to have friends that I can enjoy in conversations like this, maybe not quite on the same intellectual level but we will go down some rabbit holes all having varying opinions.
You know what makes me optimistic for the future? The generation of people whose lives have been touched by the likes of JP and Brett are only just beginning their journeys, myself included. I'll see you in 20 years, after I've invested sufficiently in my competence
By the middle of this Jordan starts looking way healthier. Bret does a great job of just talking with him without making re live all the shit he’s gone through recently.
This is exactly where I start to part ways with their worries. They are right that there are ideas in this "woke" culture war that are counterproductive and claims that are objectively false. But I don't see evidence that competency is suffering the way they do. Of course kids are spending too much time playing video games and on devices. Of course empathy for this reason and others has decreased, conversations are harder, social skills are suffering in some ways. But don't we have to take into account that the landscape in which our children are going to have to navigate success and live long term IS going to be more like this digital existence that they are growing up in? I certainly try to hold my teenaged children accountable at a higher level. I don't let the school set the marks. But I also don't see evidence that the school is working against competency or that they have ceased to have that as a goal. If you read Iain McGilchrist you'll find he somewhat tediously but effectively compares the current "woke" modes of extremist thinking with the Enlightenment. And when I look at history and even back to my own youth I understand that part of this is a generational cycle that will always persist. The upcoming generation will always appear weaker and less equipped to the older generation that paved the way. Part of that is true and relevant. But part of that is ALWAYS because the world the new generation is adapting to is simply a different world with different demands. And the speed with which our technological advances occur will actually INCREASE the perceived gap between the competencies of the older and younger generations don't you think? Do you have kids? I do. And I teach mine to clean house, do yardwork, garden, read, play musical instruments, talk about culture and values, and I help them with their homework. My son is just as competent at 14 now as I was at 14 in 1994. And in many ways he is more prepared mentally to be successful in the new world, even though I do see him spending way too much time on digital screens and I see how that hurts his social skills and reduces his play time and face to face interactions. At the same time I know the world that he will have to succeed in will look more like THAT (I mean screens and digital interactions) than it will like my world. I think that is OK. I don't see us moving towards anything like classic Marxism and dissolving the individual contributions and freedoms each man and woman have in the market. But I DO agree that we need badly to establish a NEW more applicable and effective value system so that we don't go too far to the extremes that could possibly lead us to a point where our education systems are at odds with competency.
@@Sirdonjon that because the world we built has momentum. We are riding on past competence. Watching YOUR kids has little to do with the world at large. Much of what is happening with the current world might as well be cargo cultism. Dressing up like the people who built it all but not having the ability to replicate what they accomplished in any way.
I just finished JPs podcast with the illustrator of his book and I'd recommend it if you haven't heard it yet. She's a very sweet and interesting person and you could tell she was very grateful to be able to add to Jordan's book. Cheers
These guys make me feel like I’m watching the Super Bowl of Ideas, except the goal is not to defeat the other, but instead to see how much better they can help each other and humanity win.
They are showmen, these people are not here to save us, they are here to make money, they have no real solutions to problems, all they do is talk talk talk and sell books. Used to be fan, thought we were doing something...I was wrong.
Now, lets not overstate the reasonableness here. Bret seem to be saying incredibly radical, horrifying things, hes just being vague about what hes actually suggesting and saying it in a calm manner.
“Sorry we went so long” Are you kidding? That was the shortest 2 hour podcast of all time! I could listen to an 8 hour podcast of you two speaking. You two are easily among the top ten most interesting people to listen to today.
i think i meant to Jordan, cause' he gets exhausted really hard and fast nowadays, in his podcast he usually explains that he can't be in this kind of conversations for too long
My goal is to get to bed by 10:00 p.m. but I almost always get to bed around midnight. I was watching some videos I had queued up and this one started at about 9:47 p.m. and my plan was to watch it until 10:00 p.m. and then go to bed. Anyway, I watched this video until midnight so I'll try again tomorrow to get to bed by 10:00.
These discussions are the product of very lucid thinkers and thoughtful, careful use of language. Very eloquent, even as we hear them in real time flesh out their ideas.
The people of Canada that I have listened to have superior English speaking skills. Half the reason I listen to another Canadian on RUclips - Steve Wallis is because his command and clarity of English, as a layman is a pleasure to listen to.
@@r.davidyoung7242 Throw in the Neo-Libs too and the politicians pandering to the green anti-oil voters. We keep our presence in the Middle East, not so we have oil, but because our allies need oil. Instead of using Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf to get the oil for our allies while we develop better technology for green energy, we could easily extract the oil from the U.S. The Neo-Libs don't want that because they would lose the short-minded green voters. The Straight of Hormuz is also very important for trade, but that is much less interesting and much more easily fixed. And I think it is foolish to characterize the right, and especially the religious right, to be all out pro-war. Even the vast majority of conservative veterans think the Middle East is an unwinnable battle ground that we will always lose. The Trump base, his campaign, and the latter half of his term were around pulling troops out of the middle east and only having selective strikes in the service of our ME allies. At the least, it seems that whoever's out of office is the anti-war party and vice versa. But even Trump, despite his many faults, was more anti-war than Obama, Bush, or either of the Clinton's. Hell, and to think this is all due to the idiocy of the CIA in the 50's in regards to Iran. I also think it is easy to convince the military industrial complex to find a different market, mostly Europe and the US allies. China and Russia (although much more China, Russia and China will end up at each others throats at some point) can not gain a global hegemony. Despite the mishaps and occasional atrocity the US may involve themselves in, China will unanimously deny that they are atrocities and ramp them up continuously. Not only will shrinking the US military through stepping down from the world police role save our own budget and get rid of the majority of the blood on pentagon's hands, it will bolster the US allies to take up the self-reliance needed to keep a market for the military industrial complex and better the defensive capabilities against China.
"giving the Devil his due.." is a concept i wish alot of normal folk would grasp onto. Ignoring and shutting down conversation that allows us to learn why terrible acts of evil were committed, dooms us to continue to repeat them.
that’s a fair point but there’s also the flip side. every killer wants his place in history, including recent events of school shootings. then you get people who want to copycat or find their own terrible mark in history in the only way they see possible. it’s a nuanced take, which is better than complete shut down or glorification.
It reminds me of a discussion I had long ago about a poet who murdered his wife. The poetry he made didn't all of a sudden become bad poetry at the moment he murdered his wife. There is a difference between judging a person and judging a person's actions. It seems to me that many people fail to make this distinction these days. Christianity teaches not to judge the person, but to leave that judgement up to god. Christians who adhere to this doctrine are merely capable of judging a persons actions, hence I'd say that writing the poetry was a good action and murdering his wife was a bad action.
@@BlacksmithTWD What about if he'd murdered his wife before he wrote the poetry. Would you have really been able to say you enjoyed the poetry and valued it is much than if you experienced it before the murder. That's why sometimes I find it may not always be wise to know too much about your favourite artists. You might not like what you find. Heroes with clay feet and all that.
@@redmed10 I'd say that more important than in what order he did what, is in what order I happen to get familiar with his actions as far as it makes a difference. What if you read the poetry, but didn't know he murdered his wife? does it then matter whether he wrote it before or after he killed his wife?
It is mind-blowing to see the improvements Jordan Peterson has made with regards to his health since he was on his daughter's podcast (a few months back).
Wow. That address the discussion above... like not at all. How did you come up with posting that comment as valid here? It belongs on his webpage or some of his videos that address his health.
He really still isn't looking well. Benzo post acute withdrawal can last years. If I was him I'd just get back on the fucking prescription. He's an older guy. Why not of it helps? He's no longer interesting. Bad.
@@basedlog4324 His uncontrolled crying is spiking as of late. Surely a cause due to the withdrawls. I fear for that his skin might be too thin to get into any serious debates with someone challenging. Not like these circlejerk debates as of late.
Self perpetuating vs self extinguishable patterns, may be useful to a point then degrade their own continuation. That determines both a good or bad (useful vs self-defeating) mythology or ideology which can b basically the same roots. The bad ones extinguish themselves by not being useful for continuation or even detrimental to continuation. The ones setting themselves up to be dictatorships typically defeat themselves (evergreen or dictatorial form religion - same result). Mythology can be useful or detrimental, often depending on a useful moral to the story which moves us forward, vs a stifling moral to a story, religious or "Evergreen" type ideology. Consider "the doGma" gene" which can boost or defeat us religiously or ideologically. Mythology or ideology, it has to be a good game that entices rather than having to be forced or it extinguishes itself: 1:23:57
I don't know if it's just me, but as soon as this popped into my recommended, I got so excited I went to shower, prepared my dinner, switched on the AC, sat in front of my laptop with earphones on, entered full screen, and started watching it like a movie (my dinner was the popcorn).
@@MrPloopi Bullshit. Both men sacrificed tremendously to stand up for what the truth. Both paid severe prices for going against the grain. Both picked themselves back up and kept fighting, knowing the worst may well be yet to come. That’s like the definition of heroism.
@@Sam-xg3mr Jordan Peterson didn’t get famous for his psychology, he got famous because he lied about the Canadian c-16 law or whatever it was. He said he would rather be sent to a gulag than acknowledge pronouns. The guy is pathetic lol. Not at all heroic.
I see a lot of people bringing what is most different about them to the mix but what is most different about some people is that they have terrible post modern anti enlightened ideas.
Ladies, gentlemen and all human beings, this is what is called a discussion. Where two people who sometimes have opposing views let one another present their opinions and respond with no anger or hate, but with conversation. It's beautiful.
Two people united by their resentment and bitterness towards Socialism, both of whom operate with the same caricatures of Socialism. They're in complete harmony. It's just two people trying to sharpen their knives to combat a strawman bogeyman they've created. Something called, cue the spooky music, Cultural Marxism :)
This is the closest I've seen JP to %100 in the short time since he's been back. Love it ! I think the more he speaks to other geniuses, the faster he'll bounce back.
Yes, and i had to do a second take by the middle of the talk JP actually looked younger and i couldn't help but smile hearing the both of them in a healthy conversation. Uplifting to say the least.
No the more he gets back to work and challenges himself, he here to stops living on easy street, stop feeling sorry fir himself, take responsibility fir his actions, carry his cross nobly etc etc you know all the things he told us to do, or more specifically the exact things he told me to do when I was going through Benzo withdrawals, it’s a real shame to see him fail his own test and yet most of his fans are not even paying attention, too caught up in signalling their compassion as a symbol of their gratitude fir what jp did for them. I get that, but come on, was his advice not good enough for himself? Why y’all giving him a pass? He wouldn’t do it for you? So why are you letting him do it for himself? Oh I don’t think Brett is a genius either. I agree that he brings the best out of Peterson through mutually interest, but he is such a midwit sometimes, especially when it comes to economics, i mean he is a lefty after all.
"Truth is the handmaiden of love." This is far more true than you know. The Bible makes far more sense than you think: ajourneyoffaith.ca/2020/09/23/the-plan-of-god/
"We are educating children, ever younger, in obsessing about defects of 'the system' - many of them imaginary - rather than giving them competence. In fact, we are demonising the very acquisition of competence. " Sums up our world perfectly.
I agree with your premise about demonizing the acquisition of competence. I just think that when government reaches a high enough level of corruption, propaganda, and censorship coupled with the divide and conquer strategy that will inevitably lead to violence followed by a police state to deal with the violence they have helped create then unfortunately we will lose all the good things (Competence) that we have along with everything else. But I am curious as to which defects of the system do you think are imagined? The defects I just listed are enough to drive any society crazy and the only thing left to do is to shut people up if they speak up about these “Defects”.
You're so right - what I got in philosophy & political science at uni, kids are exposed to in elementary education! It's probably my biggest concern right now.
This is what I've missed...2 intellectual Juggernauts who can discuss, debate, and disagree without bringing everything to a screeching holt. Good stuff
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Bret has here proved that JP's intellect is anti-fragile. Every other discussion partner I've seen recently has treated JP like he's damaged or incapable. Bret just jumps right into it, and just look how the discussion comes alive!
@@morgierwin6641 I love JP's stuff - was just imagining what it could be like from a scientist's perspective. They wouldn't hear that metaphysical talk very often.
@@YourMom-ro1ig well he’s had life long depression and his wife got cancer and he ended up eating something that got him very very very sick where he didn’t sleep for a long time then he went on benzo’s (a medication) and tried to stop but it started to kill him and no hospitals in the western world could help him so he went to Russia and got put in a coma and had a lot of other problems form it and has had a long time trying to recover enough to even sit still. And yes I mean literally just sit still
ive been thinking that so much lately with these guys and their friends. They are the modern day socrates and are attacked just like those philosophers were (not that I know much about that) but it feels just as frowned upon to talk about Jordan as it mightve been Socrates , or anything that was seen as against the church
I simply put on blackface go into town and experience peoples reactions - I'm not joking its a total distraction from any negative thoughts as all people gang together in condemnation of me - it puts things in perspective that no matter how bad your life gets - people hate black people more - I'm not racist I understand its a compliment to black people that I walk in their shoes - but they don't seem to like a mirror being held up - why? god only knows makeup is just that - depression cured
This is complete nonsense. There’s no evidence any of it’s true and a lot of evidence it’s completely fake. A university would be grossly negligent to teach this to anybody.
@@roman-fo2sk with the dollar sign in front, it prevents extra digits from being prepended, hence safeguarding against fraud (provided the decimal point is used also). :) Additionally, if you're upset about people shilling useless junk to get rich, on a planet being raped for profit, you may be able to find more worthwhile targets for your passion.
@@roman-fo2sk almost all English-speaking countries place the currency symbol before the amount. You know, the same countries that developed the computer technology with which you are developing...
I feel like if everyone in the world spoke to each other about tough issues the same way these two speak to each other, we would be in a much better place. Screaming and yelling and cancelling doesn't get anyone anywhere. I applaud these two for what they have done for the world.
@Luke Purse What about the time a Jewish minister asked the king of Persia if he could rebuild Jerusalem, and the king was like, "Sure, and also I'll give you some wood."
@Joe Smith I guess you can call a quote a statement, but I like to think of it more as a mantra. So we apply the lesson individually. Personally, what this means to me, is that we turn our 'shadow/ animal' like inclination for something good. I mean that most of these inclinations stem from a place of fear of not surviving or of being subjugated to someone more dominant. So feelings like being threatened by difference of abilities, can be turned around by realizing that cooperation actually increases our chances of survival. Also, instead of raging wars that threaten safety and human life, we can play sports games in a manner to civilise the inclination of aggression. I hope you can see why I said the action depends more on the individual because there are many ways to apply this.
"In all these assaults on the senses there is a great wisdom - not only about the addictiveness of pleasures but about their ephemerality. The essence of addiction, after all, is that pleasure tends to desperate and leave the mind agitated, hungry for more. The idea that just one more dollar, one more dalliance, one more rung on the ladder will leave us feeling sated reflects a misunderstanding about human nature - a misunderstanding, moreover, that is built into human nature; we are designed to feel that the next great goal will bring bliss, and the bliss is designed to evaporate shortly after we get there. Natural selection has a malicious sense of humor; it leads us along with a series of promises and then keeps saying ‘Just kidding.’ As the Bible puts it, ‘All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.’ Remarkably, we go our whole lives without ever really catching on. The advice of the sages - that we refuse to play this game - is nothing less than an incitement to mutiny, to rebel against our creator. Sensual pleasures are the whip natural selection uses to control us to keep us in the thrall of its warped value system. To cultivate some indifference to them is one plausible route to liberation. While few of us can claim to have traveled far on this route, the proliferation of this scriptural advice suggests it has been followed some distance with some success." Robert Wright, The Moral Animal
@Joe Smith I like that you said that. indeed needs context. APPARENTLY, this episode is fully transcribed, I was able to 'find' the word pretend, once in the page. (url to follow) the audio plays AS the text highlights along, like a book reading to itself, ya know? A self aware book! Remember those? 1:09:20 Bret: "Yeah, I would say, I think we're in near perfect agreement here, we have to learn each other's language about it. Yes. What I would say is, you know, an explosion is a very dangerous thing. But it's a marvelous thing in a cylinder where it can be used to do physical work. And so the point is, yeah, let's not pretend that we are something other than we are. But let's take those impulses and channel them to something productive and so yeah, this this is actually..." link otter.ai/u/NOHI3szSLEeVMtXfYnKNc7qc9YY
What a wonderful conversation... please please please keep them coming with the two of you!!! I’ll be rewatching a few more times to make sure I’ve grasped everything. The universities don’t produce this kind of quality material and this is free!! I want a refund for my BA!
Not true. I rather be stuck in traffic in comfortable and quiet car with a great sound system and adaptive cruise control than a cheap Honda Civic. I've driven both and there is a big difference while stuck in traffic.
So glad I found Jordan a few months back! I have finally just been getting caught up on his videos and they have changed my life! These guys are just so amazing I wish I could just sit in their presence and absorb it all! Now I want to know who are these 600+ that thumb down!
Great conversation! Bret, bravo on correcting and not agreeing with everything JP had to say. Dr. Peterson is a critical thinker but, many times he comes across (tons of interviews with others) as all knowing and not many disagree or challenge him. I've followed him for many years and it's obvious he doesn't like when someone questions him or disagrees with his perspective (because he thinks he's always right, regardless of topic/argument). I love your podcast with your wife - one of my favorite interviews in the past year has been the one you did with your brother - it was very insightful; and, I love the fact that both you and he have mutual respect and admiration for one another! 🥰
Peterson doesn't respect Bret (or anyone who dares disagree with him). The constant interruptions when Bret was speaking and articulating an argument was most disrespectful, and flies in the face of his (Peterson's) advice about the importance of 'reciprocity'. Bret was far too gracious to tolerate JBP's obnoxious insensitive interruptions. I grew a tremendous amount of respect for Bret Weinstein, after viewing this podcast. JBP quite clearly just loves to hear himself talk.
Peterson: "Is it a spandrel? I don't think you can define spandrels post-hoc" Weinstein: "Well that's funny, I was just writing about spandrels this morning" Me: *nods*
@Dr. Jordan Peterson "Groupselection verses geneselection"? I leave the philosophical/theological implications to one's own imagination...😉 I would like to see a discussion on European christian chivalry and its practicality on society as a deepening follow-up..... Original sinn: the perpetual struggle between our body, "the machine" and our intellect driven genes(sic!?), "the soul"?🤔 I like it to be able to witness that it seems that the scientific approach, even through social studies, keeps creeping up towards theological questions. Are we witnessing the beginnings of a new, perhaps even inversed, "renaissance"?🔥☧ P.s. be assured I've included a decade intention for you in my daily rosery. I sense our Lord has great works for you instored. You can count on my contribution of your spiritual protection sir! Keep on doing His work! Deo gratias!⚜⚘
I disagree with Jordan Peterson on many things, but his willingness to think real time and let his intellectual guard down is hugely admirable. I noticed this with his discussions with Sam Harris as well. I agree with Harris more, but he’s more buttoned up and doesn’t think “real-time”. And from that perspective, Jordan Peterson is an absolutely intellectual powerhouse to be admired.
You see the recent interview he had with gad saad? He mid argument realized he hadn't formed a completely cohesive stance on a subject and on the spot was able to digest the new information presented and changed his mind. Intellectual humility seems to be rare and on the decline these days.
This is just why I love JBP so much. There's several moments when he has conversations or podcasts like these that just make me want to hug him. He is truly genuine in his humility and the way he says it tells us he really really means it.
@@TheBeardedDoog lmao “cultural Marxism” is a strawman that does not exist. The word “Marxist” is used to throw off conservative warning bells when there is nothing “Marxist” about any of it. It’s more like “cultural postmodernism”. There is nothing postmodern about Marxism.
The most uplifting and restorative conversation I have had the privilege of listening to in a very long time. Welcome back Jordan and carry on Bret you make a powerful and effective team.
Did we really need the mythology? Are people too dumb to understand the benefits of living according to particular principles grounded in reality? Do we need to constantly lie to ourselves? I think it's two sides of the same coin: The Church of Christ and the Church of Wokeness. One might have a better outcome but as long as we are willing to accept the notion of a "greater good" on faith we are going to fall into this same trap over and over.
@@freddieg7131 "the benefits of living according to particular principles grounded in reality?"....isn't this also a faith based assumption done in the name of the greater good?
@@freddieg7131 the mythology was functional because the metaphors conveyed sensible ideas and sometimes moral truths. Such is quite the opposite with the other example. (But YES I do follow the "do we actually need?" point, whereas often just through living, one would experience realizations leading them to know how to live, therefore not actually need metaphorical tales. However, I would assume that through living these lessons, one would want to record what they felt was profound experiences, epitome-level learnings, as well as warnings to remember; in order to avoid regret, and rather follow a path of sporadic joy. Additionally, I like your sides of coin point. Relifion as a social binding has been the anvil to our progress for centuries, and if the woke attitude spread so far that it replaced sense, then, well...nah, i dont wanna think about that one maybe.
I love these chats. I know how much work they must be so thank you. It's no surprise that people that operate and share on this level are valued by society.
Thank you to whoever decided to annotate this podcast in the description. There are so many important points that were brought up and this makes it soo much easier to reference back to them!
@@robinpesek3657 There were a lot of people there and I was playing music in a band but I remember talking to him over Basil Mojitos in Olympia Wa. I was still a student and was surprised there was an Evergreen prof at the party. We played Lady Gaga music with acoustic instruments lol
JP: 'You like to think that you have ideas, but it's probably the case that ideas have you.' Bret Weinstein: 'You like to think that you have genes, but it's probably the case that genes have you.' (I've been holding on to this one for a while now.)
Man was created to have dominion over genes and ideas....well look what has dominion now. I don't think you will find an evolutionary psychologist taking about the fall of man.
He has also said that you cannot grow up until someone else is more important than you. So maturity necessitates valuing someone else's inequality more than your own. So you don't grow up until you acknowledge that it is moral for someone else to have more than you.
And I want to throw in the idea that ‘growing up’ or maturing in this sense means ‘approaching the center of your being’. Centering in other words. Because you’re discovering your solid place in the world when you acknowledge where you belong in the social order. Which means to circle around yourself until you reach a center and establish your place within
I thought I was too old to have a crush. But I love Jordan Peterson. He has such a huge intellect and showed so much strength through a nightmare health crisis. His daughter is adorable. Yes I’m a fan.
This is fabulous! I started listening to Bret and Heather in Jordan’s absence. Together they are dynamite! My only criticism is that JP tends to jump in and take the conversation at times. Bret is ever the respectful host.
Yes! It was a little stressful, every time JP interrupted Bret when he was about to make a second part of the argument. It's all thanks to Bret, that the conversation was somewhat organized and moderated - he did great as a host and slowed down the train, each time it's been on the verge of derailing. Otherwise, I agree, it's been great.
Holy shit. Idk if I have the energy to watch after a long day of classes, recording music, and listening to Bret and heather earlier, but this is gold and I will enjoy it fully when I have the chance! Cheers everyone. :)
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Some of the ideas discussed here were unimaginably fascinating to me. Both of you have such incredibly interesting minds. Hoping for more discussion between you two in the future!
Just finished. This is a multiple listener. Jordan really respects Bret's background and intellect. You can tell he understands Bret understands things that he doesn't.
A very interesting conversation and it adds so much to my day. Thank you both for having such an engaging conversation. I like how the two of you work through some deeper thinking and kind of flush out an idea.
Brett is probably the most respectful interviewer Jordan has ever had in the last 4 years.
Love you both!
Yeah, Bret is good like that. He listens, and doesn't attack. I only wish he would respond to us plebs in the comments more often, but oh well.
Tim Ferris and Johnathan Pageau have also done a pretty good job
👍🏼
@@cbalan777 I bet trying to respond becomes overwhelming long before a popular channel hits over 100k subs.
Don't forget Theo Von!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
I feel like I've been saying this for 6 years now, we need more discussions like this and less news media propaganda in our lives.
i have as much propaganda in my life as i think is necessary, as do you, as does everyone, ignorance is entirely a choice these days
So you want less propaganda, but more propaganda?
what discussion, there are topics both of them wouldn't touch, and people they would never debate or have conversation with. Both are just a gatekeepers, no wonder they are still allowed on youtube while others are banned
@@aegars and you are still allowed on RUclips 😁
if news media propaganda goes away then the problem is solved and this conversations irrelavent
The stamina and focus Jordan demonstrated was such a relief. I have missed him so much!
I admit I worry he is overdoing it and might need to ease in more. But maybe that's just what he needs is the intellectual stimulation. I just don't want him to go back where he was.
@@KrisBellemare Well said!
He’s a treasure, an absolute treasure
@@KrisBellemare That's a legit point, and I agree. At the same time I wonder if this kind of intellectual engagement might be a form of "physical therapy" for his ongoing psychological recovery.
Focus? Dude was 80% of the way through six different conversations the whole time. He's always had a propensity to wheel off on tangents of tangents, but I'm 40 minutes in and he sounds downright methed up. It's high level meth speak, but damn the guy needs to cool it.
I’m inspired by how even when they disagree, they’re still on the same team, trying to crack the puzzle together.
I wish I knew people like this
"If you're stuck in traffic, it doesn't matter how expensive your car is"
My favorite quote from this episode.
ya know !
That's not true, though. Leather seats, air conditioning, leg room: ;)
@@socrattt I was gonna say “Acktchually” lol
Until Elon releases his helicopter mobile.
Better stereo
I cannot say this often enough, it’s SO good to see Jordan Peterson back!
Jordan and Bret together is a treat.
@@CBT5777 Whats the problem with that ?
You just die pointless ?
No, you search any way for a cure for your health, as being dead is the worse outcome for any individual.
@temple of doom, he recognized what was happening and took the steps to get better. He was responsible for his health with the help of his family. Seems to be being responsible for your life and choices is exactly what he preaches.
Why, hello, my pretty... Yeah. Just recently started listening to Jordan. Pure binge now
@@CBT5777 benzodiazepene addiction is nearly impossible to beat. Withdrawal is often fatal. I'm glad he did what he could to stop. At first he looked fucking horrible
“People keep asking if I'm back and I haven't really had an answer, but yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.”
At 35:00 JPB destroys science itself. I'd say he's back.
😂🙏🏼
He may not be back for much longer if he reads all of his comments section and takes it to heart.
Jordan is a man of focus, commitment, sheer will... I once saw him kill three SJW's during a lecture... with an archetype, with a f&%$ing archetype. Then suddenly one day he asked to leave.
@@geekvinos this is an amazing comment, you need to put this in the main thread, more people need to see it. Nicely done
Bret is an amazing host cause he's always so willing to hear out his guest. There were a few times that Jordan jumped in to clarify a question or a point and Bret would stop and patiently listen and then change his response rather than just going back to where he was. You can learn so much from this podcast, but how to have an intelligent and useful conversation is the main thing for me. Thank you both!
Agree 300%🔥💦..This convo is a highly needed example for how to exchange valuable ideas & concepts..within the debate culture today in Social media.
I like Jordan but felt that he was interrupting Bret a lot. There were a few times when I would have liked to have heard what Bret was going to say
@@matthewbarber4505 the frisbee analogy he was about to make was the main one I can recall, but it's still admirable that he's in a conversation to hear what Jordan has to say and then add in where he can.
But I found it funny that they were practically arguing about morals lmao that's what most Drs and people like that tend to include into there studies, we humans also have morals, for example, "I know my tribe leader beheaded my cousins after him stealing, looks like I'm not stealing or step out of line" like how does he not include that, that's what limits his understanding on jordans points
But all in all, I respect how they respond to each other, I wish I had more conversations like that because a lot of people get too many feelings involved when information is more vital
This is a beautiful conversation that proves you can have many multiple disagreements in a conversation while still having the utmost respect for one another.
Neither one automatically assumes the other is stupid or evil immediately with any disagreement.
I used to think I agreed with JB about everything. When I first saw bret on the Joe rogan interview with the 3 of them he was in disagreement with Jordan on many things. I thought I don't like this guy. I've since been working my way through all the dark horse podcasts, I love brett and Heather discussing subjects. I hope they both know how much we enjoy them taking the time to put the work in for them. Such great minds finally some people too aspire too.
@@calebcrouch6133 Neither is trying to *win* but rather to understand more. That's the way it seems to me, and it's why I like it!
@@chrishart8548 my thoughts, spot on
and ultimately find common ground, a sense of shared purpose despite different routes to the destination. Something to inspire both sides of a political spectrum.
It gives hope that some intelligent thinkers can diffuse the cultural timebomb that is ready to go off!
So happy to see these two back together. Their Joe Rogan interview is one of the best
wish they did that again
was the first time I'd listened to JBP and was subsequently hooked
One if the Joe Rogan episodes I revisit with some regularity
I agree it was an incredible episode
@@LanceDobson is that legal?
Jordan and Bret should co-host a podcast. They have a unique chemistry that makes both of them more interesting when they're together.
you nailed it
I agree they should team up more. They have fantastic rapport.
Yes, they complement one another perfectly. Bret is methodical and mathematical. Jordan is psychologically and emotionally very astute.
Agree 👍🏼
Great comment. I really hope we see them working together more.
This is the first conversation I’ve seen Jordan in post-illness where he seemed entirely like his old self. Animated, enthusiastic, confident ... really enjoyed this.
He and Bret Weinstein are friends. A man before a friend is a different human being altogether.
I don't know. He seems quite tired here compared to how he was before the illness.
@@pasijutaulietuviuesas9174 I agree, he's not completely as he used to be, but he looks much better in this interview than in others prior.
Jordan Peterson is a sensitive. Jordan is still feeling the effects of his illness. It is with the help of friends, like Bret Weinstein, that he is recovering. I do not anticipate Jordan Peterson will have any interviews with the left wing media any time soon. At the same time I’d like to see interviews with Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro.
Thoroughly impressed with himself.
Out of all of JBP's recent interviews, he seems most like his old self here. Great discussion.
He seems the most relaxed. Probably his connection to Brett.
I think it's cos he's talking to an intellectual equal and not just humouring his daughter.
Can't wait to see him back on Rogan
Research XENON GAS.. He needs a new supply... Thats all this is about...
@@FearfulFeck I liked Hamilton Morris video about it
"Functional mythology has been replaced by inadequate ideology." Wow that really hits the nail on the head.
was about to emphasize that myself. Wrote it down to return to.
People aren't interested in mythology anymore.
@@cbalan777 that's the point. We're missing out on all of that ancient wisdom because we are smart enough to disprove most of the mythology that comes along with it. As Jordan likes to say, we are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
@@yo_its_devo I don't think it's just about a rational mindset being dismissive of stories, and thus losing wisdom, but also the passion for mythologies themselves. They don't see the intrinsic value. They say they care, but they really don't. I've arrived at this perspective because I'm a story teller. I tell someone I'm working on an epic story and they "Meh". I ask for people to fund the creation of my art and they ask "Why would anyone support you?" It's exceedingly difficult to get people interested, which is terribly frustrating for me, because I'm a super rare artist and what I can offer is at risk of disappearing.
@@cbalan777 what Christianity does to bolster it's mythology is establish saints, great people who sacrificed, influenced and overcame, then passed down their wisdom.
We in the West have our canonical thinkers and stories which is much more murky and morally ambiguous than the Christian saints and gospels, and old testament but still far better than nothing.
However we don't talk about them, the canon is almost the sole resource of scholars, we have almost entirely removed moral education from our children's lives, they don't understand there are great men and women who can give them a lift up on to their shoulders. Instead our children are taught everyone before them was a dumb backwards bigot.
4:30 writing as thinking
6:50 on evil
9:25 the dangerous argument
16:40 the evolution of sacrifice
20:45 looking into the darkness
21:38 the line dividing man from beast
24:01 on consciousness
26:03 human innovation
30:15 the evolution of religion/ on truth
35:00 the scientific narrative
35:57 hierarchies
40:15 on teleology
42:11 servitude to the gene
44:57 the problem with evolutionary biology
45:59 cultural evolution
46:14 lineage selection
52:47 genes vs consciousness
1:00:37 on inhibition
1:06:57 integration
1:13:44 the modern problem
1:16:30 the problem with cultural evolution
1:23:23 marxist utopia's
1:26:36 equality of outcome
1:27:56 bitcoin
1:33:30 retooling the system/ on growth
1:38:15 getting past the current landscape
1:39:40 spandrels
1:41:42 human nature vs malleability
1:44:36 personal vs collective responsibility
1:47:30 black conservatives
1:48:21 zero sum
1:50:21 corrupt systems
1:51:51 demonizing competence and it's effect on children
1:58:07 is bias effecting their perspective on the culture war
2:00:12 on self deception
2:03:48 wokification of the corporate world
2:08:43 censorship
2:10:25 cancelling people/ dr seuss
commenting so this is higher up
Yes, get this closer to the top
Thank you!!!
Great
Big ups!
I am an Evergreen graduate and was at school when we had the infamous "takeover." It was sad, pathetic really. I love my school and hope that they do not descend into chaos. Since I've graduated I've tried deprogramming the liberal agenda that was shoved down my throat. I have more good things to say about the college then poor, but the way the college handled it's affairs was disgusting. They are doing a complete disservice to the students, like myself, that pay good money to attend their college. I"m thankful for the courage that Peterson and Weinstein have in shedding light on these matters. Thank you Peterson and thank you Bret, for speaking your truth and giving voice to so many students that feel the same but are to afraid to voice their own opinions, because evidently that's not what happens on college campuses anymore.
What percentage of students, would you say, joined in the angry mob? How many students at Evergreen? Seems to me that it might be a minority who wanted to wreak havoc.
@@mumpygumboo8554 It's always the loud minority. They seem much larger than they are due to how loud they get. Idk about evergreen, but at my college, it's about 15-20% of the students who behave in a similar manner. Shutting down opinions they dont like, making ridiculous demands all the time. The problem is that most of these students in the "loud minority" are backed by radical professors who encourage them any chance they get. Administrators are either on board or have their hands tied and too scared to take action
I simply put on blackface go into town and experience peoples reactions - I'm not joking its a total distraction from any negative thoughts as all people gang together in condemnation of me - it puts things in perspective that no matter how bad your life gets - people hate black people more - I'm not racist I understand its a compliment to black people that I walk in their shoes - but they don't seem to like a mirror being held up - why? god only knows makeup is just that - depression cured
@@howiefelterup329 Yes, that's what I figured. I think Weinstein likes to pull out the wedge issues and make out that there's more "bad actors" than really exist. True, many are crazed and we need to take that into account, but moreover, we should look at the reasons why are they so rangy tangy? What has society done to fail so many?
@@mumpygumboo8554 The percentage % is not the issue, Mumpy. It's the fact that a sizeable mob, maybe 300, were allowed to threaten, destroy, detain, silence, and simply wreak havoc on a college campus, with no consequences. Imagine if you were a child and your Dad went to work in a place as an education professional, and was treated like THAT. The cops stood down for God's sake. I live in and grew up in a city that has 44,000 college students. In 1970, FOUR of those 44,000 were able to blow up a Math Research Science Bld with a fertilizer bomb. Severely wounded three people and killed one researcher.
I LOVE how patient Brett is. He just gives JBP room to express himself, then gently guides and probes. Such a good interviewer. Love these guys and am grateful for them. Two of the best sense-makers we have.
They are both very skilled at having a conversation. It's refreshing to watch.
ruclips.net/video/TmJgrRgMHNE/видео.html
Bret*
Brett is purely brimful of love.
So greatful to be able to listen to discussions like this at the touch of a button. Never in history has access to great minds been so freely available. Thank you!
Yes yes
It's amazing. In my day you had to go to a college or the library. You had to wait for someone to write a book in order to know what they thought.
Today we can get them instantly, unfiltered. Amazing.
Acces to great minds has never been so needed!
I love that you have a Swedish name and your profile picture is of Dannebrog😆 Thank you
Yes. And yet the percentage of online users taking advantage of this bounty is relatively minuscule compared with the percentage that would instantly tune it out if they happened to stumble across it. Inability to process and integrate this sort of data leads to the worst kind of inequality, and I'm not sure what can ever be done about it. What for some are nuggets of wisdom, for too many others are simply opaque little white marbles, 'pearls before swine' who, sadly, with each internet hour invested fall further and further behind those who possess intellectual and educational advantages to begin with.
2 professor that got "cancelled" because of wokeness, I'm happy they have still a voice.
Wokeness. Not a term they would use.
The irony is they are more famous than they ever would have been without the backlash
A further irony is that they are actually the woke ones in an authentic way in the truest sense of the word
In the words of Obi wan kenobi, "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." It could be, "if you cancel me on campus, I shall get a podcast and become more popular than you can possibly imagine."
@@justinmuse7095 and courage.
Two of the most brilliant contemporary thinkers on the planet. Thank you both.
For a man who was nearly dead, JP has been going HARD lately.
"Beyond Order"'s publication a week ago is responsible...
Lol fair point
He's also starting to look more like Beethoven lol. Love him.
He wasn’t almost dead, my god his fans really need to stop commenting on his medical past, they’re emotionally compromised and they have no idea what they’re talking about, every single time you guys comment on his health, it’s just so off base abs so cringe, trust me, I went through what he did, with far less, I know exactly what I’m talking about.
@@lairdgordonmcdoodle228 Brett is a lefty, what do you expect?
I mean I can’t stand him, but he brings the best out of jp
"hey Jordan, how great to see you back, let's start our conversation with some light subjects: genocidal mass murder and our inate capacity for rape"
Good, really light stuff
😂😂😂
Lol
Lol
😂😂😂😂😂
Stop me if you’ve heard this one: Two brilliant men walked into a podcast and brought logic and reason back to the insane world
Lol tip of the fedora to you sir
Well said sir!
Nope. First time I've heard that!😉
Why would I want to stop that one!?
It's good but it's not mind blowing like the discussion b/w these two
This is the kind of discussion I wanna have with my friends. But they just wanna win an argument and not explore a topic. 🤷
True! I simply put on blackface go into town and experience peoples reactions - I'm not joking its a total distraction from any negative thoughts as all people gang together in condemnation of me - it puts things in perspective that no matter how bad your life gets - people hate black people more - I'm not racist I understand its a compliment to black people that I walk in their shoes - but they don't seem to like a mirror being held up - why? god only knows makeup is just that - depression cured
Same . But I can’t think the way they do. But I can break their conversation down in pieces. Basically backwards. But yeah I hear you. All my friends are postmodernism
@@daveh4925 what. What?! WHAT?! You must be a troll
@@ashleynikolenko lol you must have a sense of humour - hope you had a 😆
I am blessed to have friends that I can enjoy in conversations like this, maybe not quite on the same intellectual level but we will go down some rabbit holes all having varying opinions.
You know what makes me optimistic for the future? The generation of people whose lives have been touched by the likes of JP and Brett are only just beginning their journeys, myself included. I'll see you in 20 years, after I've invested sufficiently in my competence
Everyone is at different stages of their development.
Bartbengal That’s the spirit!❤️
Very well said
I think the same, brother!
I'll see you at the top of the hierarchy brother.
By the middle of this Jordan starts looking way healthier. Bret does a great job of just talking with him without making re live all the shit he’s gone through recently.
Spot on!
I had exactly the same observation. Clearly Peterson's intellect is anti-fragile.
@Mary Charge it's a bot
@Ela Lamblin Totally agree bro thanks for voicing out
Noticed his improvement interview by interview.
I have had a Jordan Peterson shaped hole in my life for 2 years now. I feel so much better
fill it with responsibility!
"The pathology that is at the core of the culture war is an attack on competence itself." Word!
This is exactly where I start to part ways with their worries. They are right that there are ideas in this "woke" culture war that are counterproductive and claims that are objectively false. But I don't see evidence that competency is suffering the way they do.
Of course kids are spending too much time playing video games and on devices. Of course empathy for this reason and others has decreased, conversations are harder, social skills are suffering in some ways. But don't we have to take into account that the landscape in which our children are going to have to navigate success and live long term IS going to be more like this digital existence that they are growing up in?
I certainly try to hold my teenaged children accountable at a higher level. I don't let the school set the marks. But I also don't see evidence that the school is working against competency or that they have ceased to have that as a goal.
If you read Iain McGilchrist you'll find he somewhat tediously but effectively compares the current "woke" modes of extremist thinking with the Enlightenment.
And when I look at history and even back to my own youth I understand that part of this is a generational cycle that will always persist. The upcoming generation will always appear weaker and less equipped to the older generation that paved the way. Part of that is true and relevant. But part of that is ALWAYS because the world the new generation is adapting to is simply a different world with different demands. And the speed with which our technological advances occur will actually INCREASE the perceived gap between the competencies of the older and younger generations don't you think?
Do you have kids?
I do. And I teach mine to clean house, do yardwork, garden, read, play musical instruments, talk about culture and values, and I help them with their homework.
My son is just as competent at 14 now as I was at 14 in 1994. And in many ways he is more prepared mentally to be successful in the new world, even though I do see him spending way too much time on digital screens and I see how that hurts his social skills and reduces his play time and face to face interactions.
At the same time I know the world that he will have to succeed in will look more like THAT (I mean screens and digital interactions) than it will like my world.
I think that is OK.
I don't see us moving towards anything like classic Marxism and dissolving the individual contributions and freedoms each man and woman have in the market.
But I DO agree that we need badly to establish a NEW more applicable and effective value system so that we don't go too far to the extremes that could possibly lead us to a point where our education systems are at odds with competency.
@@Sirdonjon that because the world we built has momentum. We are riding on past competence. Watching YOUR kids has little to do with the world at large. Much of what is happening with the current world might as well be cargo cultism. Dressing up like the people who built it all but not having the ability to replicate what they accomplished in any way.
Awesome. Two of my favorite people to listen to. Welcome back, Dr. Peterson. It’s been too long.
I just finished JPs podcast with the illustrator of his book and I'd recommend it if you haven't heard it yet. She's a very sweet and interesting person and you could tell she was very grateful to be able to add to Jordan's book. Cheers
These guys make me feel like I’m watching the Super Bowl of Ideas, except the goal is not to defeat the other, but instead to see how much better they can help each other and humanity win.
thats racist
@@calculatedmasochism7058 Darude - Sandstorm
So what you're saying is women have no ideas and are ruining humanity?
Oh, wrong interview. Sorry!
ruclips.net/video/TmJgrRgMHNE/видео.html
They are showmen, these people are not here to save us, they are here to make money, they have no real solutions to problems, all they do is talk talk talk and sell books. Used to be fan, thought we were doing something...I was wrong.
I need 10 more hours of this conversation.
The world needs it.
35 minutes in and I think this dialog is one of the most significant and seminal moments in intellectual endeaviour of the 21st century
Both of my virtual dads right next to each other ! Ohhh, how good it feels, to get the double dose of wisdom in one package !
THANK YOU !
My favorite mentors. My life has improved tremendously since discovering their works and lectures.
Who could have predicted that in 2021, being reasonable and thoughtful would be the defining characteristics of rebellion?
It was in fashion 250 years ago in America as well.
It's always the case
Now, lets not overstate the reasonableness here. Bret seem to be saying incredibly radical, horrifying things, hes just being vague about what hes actually suggesting and saying it in a calm manner.
@@JagerIV like for example?
@@OdinComposer moving beyond genes implies nothing less than moving past humanity.
“Sorry we went so long”
Are you kidding? That was the shortest 2 hour podcast of all time! I could listen to an 8 hour podcast of you two speaking. You two are easily among the top ten most interesting people to listen to today.
i think i meant to Jordan, cause' he gets exhausted really hard and fast nowadays, in his podcast he usually explains that he can't be in this kind of conversations for too long
That remark was aimed at Jordan in sympathy to his health conditions. He was tired ad the end. I agree with you though. Top quality stuff.
My goal is to get to bed by 10:00 p.m. but I almost always get to bed around midnight. I was watching some videos I had queued up and this one started at about 9:47 p.m. and my plan was to watch it until 10:00 p.m. and then go to bed. Anyway, I watched this video until midnight so I'll try again tomorrow to get to bed by 10:00.
@@ExpeladeitoR ah maybe I misunderstood then hehe. That makes sense. I’m glad to see he’s well enough to give it a go again though!
As a French person, I really revell, beyond the subject-matters at hand, in the exquisite English which it is all expressed into!...
These discussions are the product of very lucid thinkers and thoughtful, careful use of language. Very eloquent, even as we hear them in real time flesh out their ideas.
The people of Canada that I have listened to have superior English speaking skills.
Half the reason I listen to another Canadian on RUclips - Steve Wallis is because his command and clarity of English, as a layman is a pleasure to listen to.
Peterson got really excited when he realized he could rope Bret into a Freud/Jung roleplay.
Lol gross
yes
@@r.davidyoung7242 Throw in the Neo-Libs too and the politicians pandering to the green anti-oil voters.
We keep our presence in the Middle East, not so we have oil, but because our allies need oil. Instead of using Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf to get the oil for our allies while we develop better technology for green energy, we could easily extract the oil from the U.S. The Neo-Libs don't want that because they would lose the short-minded green voters. The Straight of Hormuz is also very important for trade, but that is much less interesting and much more easily fixed.
And I think it is foolish to characterize the right, and especially the religious right, to be all out pro-war. Even the vast majority of conservative veterans think the Middle East is an unwinnable battle ground that we will always lose. The Trump base, his campaign, and the latter half of his term were around pulling troops out of the middle east and only having selective strikes in the service of our ME allies. At the least, it seems that whoever's out of office is the anti-war party and vice versa. But even Trump, despite his many faults, was more anti-war than Obama, Bush, or either of the Clinton's. Hell, and to think this is all due to the idiocy of the CIA in the 50's in regards to Iran.
I also think it is easy to convince the military industrial complex to find a different market, mostly Europe and the US allies. China and Russia (although much more China, Russia and China will end up at each others throats at some point) can not gain a global hegemony. Despite the mishaps and occasional atrocity the US may involve themselves in, China will unanimously deny that they are atrocities and ramp them up continuously. Not only will shrinking the US military through stepping down from the world police role save our own budget and get rid of the majority of the blood on pentagon's hands, it will bolster the US allies to take up the self-reliance needed to keep a market for the military industrial complex and better the defensive capabilities against China.
JP is lowkey childish for that one lol
@@SuperCoon88 Yeah but Osama Bin Laden defeated you just like he defeated the USSR.
"giving the Devil his due.." is a concept i wish alot of normal folk would grasp onto. Ignoring and shutting down conversation that allows us to learn why terrible acts of evil were committed, dooms us to continue to repeat them.
that’s a fair point but there’s also the flip side. every killer wants his place in history, including recent events of school shootings. then you get people who want to copycat or find their own terrible mark in history in the only way they see possible.
it’s a nuanced take, which is better than complete shut down or glorification.
It reminds me of a discussion I had long ago about a poet who murdered his wife. The poetry he made didn't all of a sudden become bad poetry at the moment he murdered his wife.
There is a difference between judging a person and judging a person's actions. It seems to me that many people fail to make this distinction these days. Christianity teaches not to judge the person, but to leave that judgement up to god. Christians who adhere to this doctrine are merely capable of judging a persons actions, hence I'd say that writing the poetry was a good action and murdering his wife was a bad action.
@@BlacksmithTWD
What about if he'd murdered his wife before he wrote the poetry. Would you have really been able to say you enjoyed the poetry and valued it is much than if you experienced it before the murder.
That's why sometimes I find it may not always be wise to know too much about your favourite artists. You might not like what you find. Heroes with clay feet and all that.
YES
@@redmed10
I'd say that more important than in what order he did what, is in what order I happen to get familiar with his actions as far as it makes a difference.
What if you read the poetry, but didn't know he murdered his wife? does it then matter whether he wrote it before or after he killed his wife?
It is mind-blowing to see the improvements Jordan Peterson has made with regards to his health since he was on his daughter's podcast (a few months back).
Yes he's looking bright eyed and bushy tailed
He looks off
Wow. That address the discussion above... like not at all. How did you come up with posting that comment as valid here? It belongs on his webpage or some of his videos that address his health.
He really still isn't looking well. Benzo post acute withdrawal can last years.
If I was him I'd just get back on the fucking prescription. He's an older guy. Why not of it helps?
He's no longer interesting. Bad.
@@basedlog4324 His uncontrolled crying is spiking as of late. Surely a cause due to the withdrawls. I fear for that his skin might be too thin to get into any serious debates with someone challenging. Not like these circlejerk debates as of late.
"functional mythology has been replaced by inadequate ideology"
Inadequate idiocy(alternative).
"Functional mythology." Just how functional was it really?
Self perpetuating vs self extinguishable patterns, may be useful to a point then degrade their own continuation. That determines both a good or bad (useful vs self-defeating) mythology or ideology which can b basically the same roots. The bad ones extinguish themselves by not being useful for continuation or even detrimental to continuation. The ones setting themselves up to be dictatorships typically defeat themselves (evergreen or dictatorial form religion - same result). Mythology can be useful or detrimental, often depending on a useful moral to the story which moves us forward, vs a stifling moral to a story, religious or "Evergreen" type ideology. Consider "the doGma" gene" which can boost or defeat us religiously or ideologically.
Mythology or ideology, it has to be a good game that entices rather than having to be forced or it extinguishes itself: 1:23:57
@@stephaniebarron52 functional enough to get us all the way to where we are
I don't know if it's just me, but as soon as this popped into my recommended, I got so excited I went to shower, prepared my dinner, switched on the AC, sat in front of my laptop with earphones on, entered full screen, and started watching it like a movie (my dinner was the popcorn).
Love this!
Sounds like you had time to clean your room amidst that laundry list. What’s your excuse?
So much better than a movie, or television!
@@unladenparrot6141 My room's already clean....Well not clean really, more like tidy. The cleaning has to be a routine thing. Oh well, tomorrow
@Brett M 🤣🤣🤣
Two people who are immortalized on the internet for their hero tales during these troubling times
that's not a very high standard for heroism
@@MrPloopi Bullshit. Both men sacrificed tremendously to stand up for what the truth. Both paid severe prices for going against the grain. Both picked themselves back up and kept fighting, knowing the worst may well be yet to come. That’s like the definition of heroism.
@@Sam-xg3mr Jordan Peterson didn’t get famous for his psychology, he got famous because he lied about the Canadian c-16 law or whatever it was. He said he would rather be sent to a gulag than acknowledge pronouns. The guy is pathetic lol. Not at all heroic.
@@Sam-xg3mr
Yes!!!
@@qwerty30013 you either know that's not true and say it anyway. Or you have been terribly misinformed.
“All you have to bring to the world is what’s unequal about you.” -jp
🙌🙌🙌
Note though that he meant the part that is better than others, not the part that is worse than others.
I see a lot of people bringing what is most different about them to the mix but what is most different about some people is that they have terrible post modern anti enlightened ideas.
ruclips.net/video/TmJgrRgMHNE/видео.html
@David Sedlacek sir this is a wendy's
Ladies, gentlemen and all human beings, this is what is called a discussion. Where two people who sometimes have opposing views let one another present their opinions and respond with no anger or hate, but with conversation. It's beautiful.
Two people united by their resentment and bitterness towards Socialism, both of whom operate with the same caricatures of Socialism. They're in complete harmony. It's just two people trying to sharpen their knives to combat a strawman bogeyman they've created. Something called, cue the spooky music, Cultural Marxism :)
@@gilgaspar6427 well earned resentment and bitterness too! Well said! :)
Yes!!!
It makes me so happy to see Jordan looking better and better. We need this man’s intelligent insights in this ridiculous society.
This used to be common sense in the 1980s.
This is the closest I've seen JP to %100 in the short time since he's been back. Love it !
I think the more he speaks to other geniuses, the faster he'll bounce back.
Yes, and i had to do a second take by the middle of the talk JP actually looked younger and i couldn't help but smile hearing the both of them in a healthy conversation. Uplifting to say the least.
He definitely looks and sounds true to form again, I hope he catches fire again! His hand gestures are back at full strength too, lol
100%
No the more he gets back to work and challenges himself, he here to stops living on easy street, stop feeling sorry fir himself, take responsibility fir his actions, carry his cross nobly etc etc you know all the things he told us to do, or more specifically the exact things he told me to do when I was going through Benzo withdrawals, it’s a real shame to see him fail his own test and yet most of his fans are not even paying attention, too caught up in signalling their compassion as a symbol of their gratitude fir what jp did for them. I get that, but come on, was his advice not good enough for himself? Why y’all giving him a pass? He wouldn’t do it for you? So why are you letting him do it for himself?
Oh I don’t think Brett is a genius either. I agree that he brings the best out of Peterson through mutually interest, but he is such a midwit sometimes, especially when it comes to economics, i mean he is a lefty after all.
@@Vgallo Wow, how do you live with you ?
"Truth is the handmaiden of love."
Feeling a lot of love for the best community I know.
What a great thing to say. Backatya, brother.
(kiss emoji)
"I am so proud of this community"
right on, right on! The feeling is mutual brother.
"Truth is the handmaiden of love." This is far more true than you know.
The Bible makes far more sense than you think: ajourneyoffaith.ca/2020/09/23/the-plan-of-god/
It is so great to see these guys get together and try to build a mansion of truth. Bret is a great listener and an original thinker. Thank you both
"We are educating children, ever younger, in obsessing about defects of 'the system' - many of them imaginary - rather than giving them competence. In fact, we are demonising the very acquisition of competence. "
Sums up our world perfectly.
Screenshot this!!😎
I agree with your premise about demonizing the acquisition of competence. I just think that when government reaches a high enough level of corruption, propaganda, and censorship coupled with the divide and conquer strategy that will inevitably lead to violence followed by a police state to deal with the violence they have helped create then unfortunately we will lose all the good things
(Competence) that we have along with everything else. But I am curious as to which defects of the system do you think are imagined? The defects I just listed are enough to drive any society crazy and the only thing left to do is to shut people up if they speak up about these
“Defects”.
@@traru4 You should read - 'Democracy - The God That Failed'. It will interest you.
You're so right - what I got in philosophy & political science at uni, kids are exposed to in elementary education! It's probably my biggest concern right now.
Fascinating interview. Brett seemed to get the most out of Dr Peterson and this was the sharpest I've seen him since his return.
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Season 4 Episode 5: Matt Ridley: Rational Optimism
@Dr. Jordan Peterson Bullshit. No one falls for this crap.
@@davidcampbell1420 what are you talking about?
The fake account claiming to represent Dr Peterson. He doesn't talk like that.
Flag and report the Impersonator.
Please more. A biologist and a psychologist complement each other perfectly
*complement each other (they also do some complimenting, but that is beside the point)
They should duo on a podcast of their own
Especially an evolutionary biologist and a clinical psychologist.
@@DieFlabbergast damn, have I really never realized complement was spelled differently!? Not sure I’ve written it or typed it before
Don’t worry, you’re not alone. Took me ages before I realized that.
From Spain I got very happy to see Mr. Jordan coming back again. We missed you Sir..., may the Force be with you.
Yeah
!ruclips.net/video/qoAPrAT8A2g/видео.html
This is what I've missed...2 intellectual Juggernauts who can discuss, debate, and disagree without bringing everything to a screeching holt. Good stuff
“Screeching holt”
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Bret has here proved that JP's intellect is anti-fragile. Every other discussion partner I've seen recently has treated JP like he's damaged or incapable. Bret just jumps right into it, and just look how the discussion comes alive!
I agree
There is no reason we can't have both. Compassionate discussions and rigorous intellectual ones.
Bret, the scientist, is very patient in the face of Jordan's spiritual/philosophical woowoo
@@margaretwinson402 how very revealing of who you are...
@@morgierwin6641 I love JP's stuff - was just imagining what it could be like from a scientist's perspective. They wouldn't hear that metaphysical talk very often.
Jordan seemed like his old self again, if not better! These two bring out the best in each other. Great conversation :)
U guys say that every episode you see him 😄
Definitely not better, but he is looking better everytime I see him for sure
@@imeleventeen what happened to him? Please excuse my ignorance.
@@YourMom-ro1ig well he’s had life long depression and his wife got cancer and he ended up eating something that got him very very very sick where he didn’t sleep for a long time then he went on benzo’s (a medication) and tried to stop but it started to kill him and no hospitals in the western world could help him so he went to Russia and got put in a coma and had a lot of other problems form it and has had a long time trying to recover enough to even sit still. And yes I mean literally just sit still
@@imeleventeen omfg how horrible. Thank you for the information. 🙏🏻
This is the modern day version of going to the public square to listen to the intellectuals, like the ancients did in Socrates’ day.
ive been thinking that so much lately with these guys and their friends. They are the modern day socrates and are attacked just like those philosophers were (not that I know much about that) but it feels just as frowned upon to talk about Jordan as it mightve been Socrates , or anything that was seen as against the church
I simply put on blackface go into town and experience peoples reactions - I'm not joking its a total distraction from any negative thoughts as all people gang together in condemnation of me - it puts things in perspective that no matter how bad your life gets - people hate black people more - I'm not racist I understand its a compliment to black people that I walk in their shoes - but they don't seem to like a mirror being held up - why? god only knows makeup is just that - depression cured
Man, have I missed this level of discussion. Watching this should be required for college. What's sad, is University would be to afraid show it.
Remember these two guys were forced out of Academia because of talk far short of this.
Would love these two bring in Robert Salposky into their discussion.
I graduated in 2010, the state of university is completely Unrecognizable now, even though there was PC nonsense rampant then.
This is complete nonsense. There’s no evidence any of it’s true and a lot of evidence it’s completely fake. A university would be grossly negligent to teach this to anybody.
@@judithlee8776 - It makes me happy to see the another woman is watching this. :-)
The boys are back in town!
@@roman-fo2sk why are you upset?
the dollar sign goes before the numeral, you silly goose :)
@@roman-fo2sk with the dollar sign in front, it prevents extra digits from being prepended, hence safeguarding against fraud (provided the decimal point is used also). :)
Additionally, if you're upset about people shilling useless junk to get rich, on a planet being raped for profit, you may be able to find more worthwhile targets for your passion.
@@roman-fo2sk almost all English-speaking countries place the currency symbol before the amount. You know, the same countries that developed the computer technology with which you are developing...
@@roman-fo2sk the internet is a big place; what on Earth are you doing here?
I feel like if everyone in the world spoke to each other about tough issues the same way these two speak to each other, we would be in a much better place. Screaming and yelling and cancelling doesn't get anyone anywhere. I applaud these two for what they have done for the world.
@Luke Purse What about the time a Jewish minister asked the king of Persia if he could rebuild Jerusalem, and the king was like, "Sure, and also I'll give you some wood."
2 men who literally do their best to figure things out and actually share their real opinions. I could and do listen for hours.
“Let’s not pretend we’re something other than we are , but let’s channel those impulses towards something productive”
@Joe Smith I guess you can call a quote a statement, but I like to think of it more as a mantra. So we apply the lesson individually. Personally, what this means to me, is that we turn our 'shadow/ animal' like inclination for something good. I mean that most of these inclinations stem from a place of fear of not surviving or of being subjugated to someone more dominant. So feelings like being threatened by difference of abilities, can be turned around by realizing that cooperation actually increases our chances of survival. Also, instead of raging wars that threaten safety and human life, we can play sports games in a manner to civilise the inclination of aggression. I hope you can see why I said the action depends more on the individual because there are many ways to apply this.
"In all these assaults on the senses there is a great wisdom - not only about the addictiveness of pleasures but about their ephemerality. The essence of addiction, after all, is that pleasure tends to desperate and leave the mind agitated, hungry for more. The idea that just one more dollar, one more dalliance, one more rung on the ladder will leave us feeling sated reflects a misunderstanding about human nature - a misunderstanding, moreover, that is built into human nature; we are designed to feel that the next great goal will bring bliss, and the bliss is designed to evaporate shortly after we get there. Natural selection has a malicious sense of humor; it leads us along with a series of promises and then keeps saying ‘Just kidding.’ As the Bible puts it, ‘All the labour of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.’ Remarkably, we go our whole lives without ever really catching on.
The advice of the sages - that we refuse to play this game - is nothing less than an incitement to mutiny, to rebel against our creator. Sensual pleasures are the whip natural selection uses to control us to keep us in the thrall of its warped value system. To cultivate some indifference to them is one plausible route to liberation. While few of us can claim to have traveled far on this route, the proliferation of this scriptural advice suggests it has been followed some distance with some success."
Robert Wright, The Moral Animal
@Joe Smith I like that you said that. indeed needs context. APPARENTLY, this episode is fully transcribed, I was able to 'find' the word pretend, once in the page. (url to follow) the audio plays AS the text highlights along, like a book reading to itself, ya know? A self aware book! Remember those?
1:09:20 Bret: "Yeah, I would say, I think we're in near perfect agreement here, we have to learn each other's language about it. Yes. What I would say is, you know, an explosion is a very dangerous thing. But it's a marvelous thing in a cylinder where it can be used to do physical work. And so the point is, yeah, let's not pretend that we are something other than we are. But let's take those impulses and channel them to something productive and so yeah, this this is actually..."
link otter.ai/u/NOHI3szSLEeVMtXfYnKNc7qc9YY
BAD ASSUMPTIONS OF HUMANITY... or possibly projection
Shout out to the editor who had to figure out dividing the convo into so many subjects.
Zach? 🤔🤷🏻♀️
This hit my notifications & literally made my day! ✌️
Last comment section i expected you to show up in, but welcome.
Yeet
I appreciate those recipes RJ! Keep up the good work man. Happy to see you here!
same here. I am glad he is back and able to be productive again. Thats just great
Why does this dude get so many likes on the most simple comments ? Must be the greased up topless pic
What a wonderful conversation... please please please keep them coming with the two of you!!! I’ll be rewatching a few more times to make sure I’ve grasped everything. The universities don’t produce this kind of quality material and this is free!! I want a refund for my BA!
"when you are stuck in traffic, it makes very little difference how expensive your car is" - JP
😅😅😅
What about the cars features like air-con entertainment or GLE traffic jam functions? I'll shut up now 🤣
Not true. I rather be stuck in traffic in comfortable and quiet car with a great sound system and adaptive cruise control than a cheap Honda Civic. I've driven both and there is a big difference while stuck in traffic.
@@felixf4378 still you are going nowhere 😅
@@sirgooogen well if u like to waste time then🤷♂️
The aim of totalitarian education has never been to instill convictions but to destroy the capacity to form any.
Hannah Arendt
ruclips.net/video/TmJgrRgMHNE/видео.html
Perfect!
And these two have pensions from it!
hannah arendt died on the dole
One of the best podcasts I've heard in the last year, and the sharpest's of Peterson's return. Excellent, excellent, excellent.
So glad I found Jordan a few months back! I have finally just been getting caught up on his videos and they have changed my life! These guys are just so amazing I wish I could just sit in their presence and absorb it all! Now I want to know who are these 600+ that thumb down!
"Jordan Peterson agrees that the third Reich was special." - Kathy Newman
LOL! Well done!🤣
Definitely something what Kathy Newman would've written for a headline.
So you're saying...........
Made me laugh out very loud!
So what you're saying is...
Awwwwww !!!! It's like getting the old high-school band back together !!! To see these two side by side. I have a huge smile on my face ! Thanks !
It doesn't matter the day, the time, or the interlocutor, Dr. Peterson never has enough water in his damned glass.
Interesting comment ! Could you elaborate?
Nevermind, you were being literal 😅
Great conversation! Bret, bravo on correcting and not agreeing with everything JP had to say. Dr. Peterson is a critical thinker but, many times he comes across (tons of interviews with others) as all knowing and not many disagree or challenge him. I've followed him for many years and it's obvious he doesn't like when someone questions him or disagrees with his perspective (because he thinks he's always right, regardless of topic/argument). I love your podcast with your wife - one of my favorite interviews in the past year has been the one you did with your brother - it was very insightful; and, I love the fact that both you and he have mutual respect and admiration for one another! 🥰
Peterson doesn't respect Bret (or anyone who dares disagree with him).
The constant interruptions when Bret was speaking and articulating an argument was most disrespectful, and flies in the face of his (Peterson's) advice about the importance of 'reciprocity'.
Bret was far too gracious to tolerate JBP's obnoxious insensitive interruptions.
I grew a tremendous amount of respect for Bret Weinstein, after viewing this podcast.
JBP quite clearly just loves to hear himself talk.
In a word, “BRAVO!” More of these open conversations need to be had in many more forums. Thank you Brett and Jordan.
Peterson: "Is it a spandrel? I don't think you can define spandrels post-hoc"
Weinstein: "Well that's funny, I was just writing about spandrels this morning"
Me: *nods*
You were nodding, I was clapping and jumping on my seat...that was epic.
hahaha so funny
Ahhh another intellectual I see.
Spandrels. A meme searching for a home.
when you don't get it
Jordan Peterson: "We've become so technologically powerful that our moral failings are increasingly fatal."
@Dr. Jordan Peterson
"Groupselection verses geneselection"?
I leave the philosophical/theological implications to one's own imagination...😉
I would like to see a discussion on European christian chivalry and its practicality on society as a deepening follow-up.....
Original sinn: the perpetual struggle between our body, "the machine" and our intellect driven genes(sic!?), "the soul"?🤔
I like it to be able to witness that it seems that the scientific approach, even through social studies, keeps creeping up towards theological questions. Are we witnessing the beginnings of a new, perhaps even inversed, "renaissance"?🔥☧
P.s. be assured I've included a decade intention for you in my daily rosery. I sense our Lord has great works for you instored. You can count on my contribution of your spiritual protection sir!
Keep on doing His work!
Deo gratias!⚜⚘
This is the third time I’ve seen this person impersonate a podcaster with this same message.
We’ve become so technically advanced we can saved the lives of people who only eat red meat.
@@mbriancohen Yeah, its like were hunters and gatherers again
ME "If one finger feels good - 5 fingers will feel better"
Thanks a lot for your kindness and generosity! Sending you two and all here positive warm embrace for the bottom of my heart!
I don't think it's overly dramatic to say that these two voices are two of the most important on the planet right now.
I'd like to also add Glenn Loury and John McWhorter to that list...at least for my sanity right now.
I think it is either overly dramatic or overly ignorant to say that.
@@taurtue thats ok, nobody cares what you think anyways
@@PantheonComicsandGames Does anyone care what you think?
@@russellharvey7096 only those who comment on my posts
Can we give some respect to Bret. So good.
These 2 men have chemistry everytime they get together.
Absolutely ! The questions and challenges he puts to Jordan are excellent. We are better for it
I disagree with Jordan Peterson on many things, but his willingness to think real time and let his intellectual guard down is hugely admirable. I noticed this with his discussions with Sam Harris as well. I agree with Harris more, but he’s more buttoned up and doesn’t think “real-time”. And from that perspective, Jordan Peterson is an absolutely intellectual powerhouse to be admired.
You see the recent interview he had with gad saad? He mid argument realized he hadn't formed a completely cohesive stance on a subject and on the spot was able to digest the new information presented and changed his mind. Intellectual humility seems to be rare and on the decline these days.
This is just why I love JBP so much. There's several moments when he has conversations or podcasts like these that just make me want to hug him. He is truly genuine in his humility and the way he says it tells us he really really means it.
Let me know when Sam Harris' ideas defeat cultural marxism. You can look for me in the cell 3 doors down at the re-education camps.
Great analysis!
@@TheBeardedDoog lmao “cultural Marxism” is a strawman that does not exist. The word “Marxist” is used to throw off conservative warning bells when there is nothing “Marxist” about any of it. It’s more like “cultural postmodernism”. There is nothing postmodern about Marxism.
The most uplifting and restorative conversation I have had the privilege of listening to in a very long time. Welcome back Jordan and carry on Bret you make a powerful and effective team.
Customs is pouring over the book looking for dangerous ideas.
And probably pouring gasoline on it and touching it off with a SJW match... given where we are right now socially, culturally and politically.
Poring*
I hear the first edition comes with an extra chromosome.
Literally any idea which conflicts with the notion that the government is the supreme authority is dangerous
*poring over
I'm glad to know another conversation between these two is soon to arrive on JP's channel.
"Functional mythology has been replaced by inadequate ideology." This may be the statement of our times! Amazing.
Did we really need the mythology? Are people too dumb to understand the benefits of living according to particular principles grounded in reality? Do we need to constantly lie to ourselves? I think it's two sides of the same coin: The Church of Christ and the Church of Wokeness. One might have a better outcome but as long as we are willing to accept the notion of a "greater good" on faith we are going to fall into this same trap over and over.
@@freddieg7131 "the benefits of living according to particular principles grounded in reality?"....isn't this also a faith based assumption done in the name of the greater good?
agreed
@@freddieg7131 the mythology was functional because the metaphors conveyed sensible ideas and sometimes moral truths. Such is quite the opposite with the other example. (But YES I do follow the "do we actually need?" point, whereas often just through living, one would experience realizations leading them to know how to live, therefore not actually need metaphorical tales. However, I would assume that through living these lessons, one would want to record what they felt was profound experiences, epitome-level learnings, as well as warnings to remember; in order to avoid regret, and rather follow a path of sporadic joy.
Additionally, I like your sides of coin point. Relifion as a social binding has been the anvil to our progress for centuries, and if the woke attitude spread so far that it replaced sense, then, well...nah, i dont wanna think about that one maybe.
@@joseluis-2702 By "greater good" I mean a good "greater" than the individual. So no. Otherwise the term "greater good" is meaningless.
I love these chats. I know how much work they must be so thank you. It's no surprise that people that operate and share on this level are valued by society.
Thank you to whoever decided to annotate this podcast in the description. There are so many important points that were brought up and this makes it soo much easier to reference back to them!
Love listening to this. Peterson and Weinstein should make this a reoccurring show, maybe weekly or biweekly.
I absolutely agree with this.
Good idea!🌞
I went to a party in Washington and met Brett about ten years ago when I was a student. The dude is hella cool and very funny in person
@@brotherbroseph1416 You were fortunate.
@@robinpesek3657 There were a lot of people there and I was playing music in a band but I remember talking to him over Basil Mojitos in Olympia Wa. I was still a student and was surprised there was an Evergreen prof at the party. We played Lady Gaga music with acoustic instruments lol
JP: 'You like to think that you have ideas, but it's probably the case that ideas have you.'
Bret Weinstein: 'You like to think that you have genes, but it's probably the case that genes have you.'
(I've been holding on to this one for a while now.)
Lol, nice one
fact.
Perfect timing 😉
ruclips.net/video/TmJgrRgMHNE/видео.html
Man was created to have dominion over genes and ideas....well look what has dominion now. I don't think you will find an evolutionary psychologist taking about the fall of man.
Thank you Both for sharing your views!
"All you have to bring to the world is what's unequal about you" - Jordan Peterson
He has also said that you cannot grow up until someone else is more important than you. So maturity necessitates valuing someone else's inequality more than your own. So you don't grow up until you acknowledge that it is moral for someone else to have more than you.
And I want to throw in the idea that ‘growing up’ or maturing in this sense means ‘approaching the center of your being’.
Centering in other words. Because you’re discovering your solid place in the world when you acknowledge where you belong in the social order. Which means to circle around yourself until you reach a center and establish your place within
I thought I was too old to have a crush. But I love Jordan Peterson. He has such a huge intellect and showed so much strength through a nightmare health crisis. His daughter is adorable. Yes I’m a fan.
Same here except my crush is on Mikhaila :)
@@jasongravely7217 Thanks for the chuckle! We both have good taste.
You have an excellent username my friend
The man is so damn fine, even when he’s not feeling 100%. Intelligence and honesty will always be attractive.
This is fabulous! I started listening to Bret and Heather in Jordan’s absence. Together they are dynamite! My only criticism is that JP tends to jump in and take the conversation at times. Bret is ever the respectful host.
I have heard Heather jump in lots on their podcast..my observation.
Yes! It was a little stressful, every time JP interrupted Bret when he was about to make a second part of the argument. It's all thanks to Bret, that the conversation was somewhat organized and moderated - he did great as a host and slowed down the train, each time it's been on the verge of derailing. Otherwise, I agree, it's been great.
The last 35 minutes, or so, was SPECTACULAR and terrifying !
Holy shit. Idk if I have the energy to watch after a long day of classes, recording music, and listening to Bret and heather earlier, but this is gold and I will enjoy it fully when I have the chance! Cheers everyone. :)
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It is wonderful to hear these two having a conversation.
Two of my favorite people! Happy to see you two talking again. You both speak with intense honesty and careful nuance that I deeply appreciate.
Some of the ideas discussed here were unimaginably fascinating to me. Both of you have such incredibly interesting minds. Hoping for more discussion between you two in the future!
Jordan has come back with such a vengeance I'm having a hard time keeping up with all his new podcast appearances😂
"beyond order" advertising...
my jaw and pelvic floor both dropped upon seeing this posted. Gonna do a quick clean up and watch it ASAP!!
Clean your room first
...Pelvic floor? lol
@@Natural_law_lawyer yes daddy
Bahahaha
Just finished. This is a multiple listener. Jordan really respects Bret's background and intellect. You can tell he understands Bret understands things that he doesn't.
Yes it felt like a genuine good faith long form conversation. Was awesome
I really love the differing backgrounds and how they overlap
The ultimate compliment from an academic
Totally agree. Also:
"Rule 9: Assume That The Person You Are Listening To Might Know Something You Don’t"
A very interesting conversation and it adds so much to my day. Thank you both for having such an engaging conversation. I like how the two of you work through some deeper thinking and kind of flush out an idea.