Centaura: Lack of Strategic Sense
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2024
- Have you ever noticed that some of the battles in Centaura don't make sense? After a lot of playthroughs, I did.
[Written by me, voiced by AI]
Note: Wondershare Filmora recently super-improved their AI voice libraries, so I took a look around. I found a really nice one, sounded decently natural, so I merged it with an idea of mine and it turned out pretty well! From now on expect the voice you hear here to replace mine in commentaries as it sounds much much nicer than my own in the field.
I might even bring back my RON timelapses!
'Phase Shift' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
Artworks credits go to:
www.youtube.com/@PoweringRusli
www.youtube.com/@ClassicMasterNoob
And photo credits go to the Centaura Fandom Wiki community.
centaura tactics: send as many people into highly defended positions and hope you sent more men than they have bullets
@@user-nf8id6di9b Yep.
That's the problem, in the game we got unlimited bullets
Thats just textbook attrition
We also have unlimited men.
@@Cutepanda1943 unless it's Kelson village
For Blackton, that villiage never was a goal, it was simply where the two armies first met. I do agree with your trench arguments but they mainly do that for gameplay reasons. Id say the forest trench map wasn’t worth the usual 3-4 thousand dead for medical supplies and artillery, and Route 23 was a planned offensive, every other way is surrounded by thick forest that prevents armor getting through, and by now Antares likely needs time to recover its troops before any new major offensive. Plenty of IRL examples of route 23 happen IRL too, and in Route 23 the infantry work with the armor, the armor providing (not very good) covering fire and blowing up some defenses and enemy tanks, while the infantry paves the way for Antaren armor to drive deeper. Route 23 also has air support, unseen until this point in game. This map was more or less a gamble to end the war as soon as possible
@@OrbitalKineticbombardemnt these are some good points
Yeah, I can see that. Nice points!
(Your username is also one of my favorite forms of weaponry :D)
@@MrMereScratch According to Kelson Village's Lore, they were told to stay and protect the village.
A reason I can think of is because given Cetus lost large parts of land due to the Chemical Attacks, they're delaying enemy forces in sporadic resistance to somewhat slow the enemy before better plans and reinforcements arrive. After all, you can't always be kept pushing back.
The trenches in the map are also pretty rudimentary and not very deep, indicating that they never really had a chance to properly build defences or it was rear or back defences. Which might be indicative of the lacking manpower the Cetus forces in the battle had.
Finally, it does not seem like Cetus particularly has many major cities within the area of strategic importance, this was a nation priding itself over it's Navy and exploration. So they may have more important towns/cities situated closer to coastal regions. (My theory.)
Now for Capri Valley, apart from gameplay reasons, it may just be because due to the stalemate during the time of this battle, they more or less had some discussions to distance from the other? It's probably a temporary declaration though before command got impatient with the stalemate of the war.
Considering the area has seen some damage, it may have been an area that has regularly been re-captured and attacked. The awkward positioning may in fact be due to the urgency of building trenches given how lacking the Cetans Army was. Though I can't answer for why it's pretty small in width.
However, I feel like Monus Plains is just an odd one out. No form of existing destruction to indicate previous battles but it's pretty fortified with those wire-gates and rudimentary trenches. It's pretty contrasting considering the Antareans caught Cetus by surprise and were capturing pretty quickly.
Now to be fair for Ascendus Forest, I think it's a reserve trench and not meant to be fought in, which may explain why Antares has their armoured cars in a parked position at their end. The reason why it's wide may be due to those on-going fires and they more or less wanted more ground which couldn't be burnt or spread by those fires.
Route 23 from the Antares side can simply be summarised to their attitude, their idea is to be more offensive than defensive. To probably support their news about their territorial gains, which is what the Emperor was wishing for. (Expansionist like mindset.)
HOWEVER, I think they'll learn their mistakes when fighting the next few campaigns. Grusea and those other countries close to Aquila. They are heavily mountainous, freezing and rugged. Infantry warfare is different here and would be particularly damaging to them.
I also say this because, this is again making an assumption from the lore. During these campaigns, they had very slow progress and were in fact frustrated on that. Which is why, it would explain why the lore also states they won said mountainous campaigns with Heavy Bombers that bombarded the heavily defended Grusean Troops? (I don't know the country in question but it was mentioned in lore Heavy Bombers were made around the same time.)
More things to note for me personally is how we see instances of armored cars being used as breakthrough vehicles as if they are tanks. When in reality they probably have less than an inch of armor making them vulnerable to rifle rounds and have them be easily stuck in off-road terrain. This is seen in Coastal Battery Q, Mons Planus and Route 23. In reality, armored cars during this time are either tasked with transporting high value military personnel or reconnaissance.
Yeah. I was playing Route 23 and knocked out 8 armored cars in one go while laughing about it with my friend. I totally agree with your point.
I agree but in Centaura we start seeing AT rifles from the Aquilan campaign onwards
Well here’s the thing, the timeline in tech dosnt really match up.
The first tanks were invented in our timeline in 1916, and (doing this from memory) the first real tanks arrive in centaura in the final battles of the Cetan war (I’m pretty sure there’s on on the train) tanks is our time,one we’re mostly used to try and break through lines when they were first deployed. Your point about armored cars is probably true but remember, this was both nations in desperation to break the enemy, so they would probably use anything they have, and the armored cars would be one of the first to be sent out.
@@Captain_potatArmored cars have existed long before tanks have entered service yet armies always knew they couldn’t handle small arms fire and artillery hence why the entente never deployed them to breakthrough lines despite it being arguably cheaper to do so. Their just simply not good for the role.
@@aungkyawmin6709 ik, but I also brought up the desperation factor of both armies using anything and everything to make a advancement
I’m pretty sure for blackton, it was one of the most valued towns due to its mines which both the corvuns and the cetans needed. The cetans to mine iron, and the corvuns for the coal industry. Because Cetus took over the mines, Corvus’ coal industry suffered sending them into an economic collapse. I dunno though not really a tactical genius.
@@sisbrolife8183 Yeah, but there is a lot of troops committed to that little town haha.
@@MrMereScratch thats true
It’s important to note non of the battles in Centaura (game) are actually major events, taking over Blackton in a way makes sense as it’s part of South Corvus lands and the whole Second South Corvus War and the Cetan Theatre was for Corvus to retake the South Corvus area. It’s also still one of the first places in the region to be met with combat.
@@ThePawsketeer perhaps apart of a larger operation that was important yes, but not the individual town
Ascendens Forest could potentially make sense because well maybe the original detachment got wiped out and there’s a new garrison moving to it after both sides abandoned it i guess? Although it seems a bit lacking in sense because you could just station troops there incase the Aquilans push your frontlines back.
If someone else said this already, then extra reminder:
None of the battles are very pivotal to the wars. It was intended that the maps were not major so that the result of the war remained the same. So, winning as the Cetus marines won't cause a major change. In fact, it is explicitly said (if I recall correctly) that only a few portions of the navy landed. The end result is already that they failed their mission. Your success (as the marines) was shadowed by the overall strategic failure.
Another counterargument surrounding places with minor objectives for major investments into, is the frontline. Inconsequential places might become the point of contention between two armies. That, or I'm wrong.
Regardless, points in the video are correct and is very straightforward. Nice!
Also, for maps with trenches, if I recall correctly, armies in WW1 rushed in to occupy trenches after engineers completed trenchworks.
Additionally, it's not an ongoing battle, I think.
@@ethanton7074 Thank you!
the EM landings we see at whitemouth were only a small portion of the landings, as the devs stated there were other, larger landings with capital ships
My Opinion is for WHY you don't spawn into trenches is because you'd be like Antares on Mons Planus and get near to capturing a Cetan trench their just going to spawn immediately and gun you down.
Its probably more or less for gameplay and not for a Aneurysm.
fr
Or, hear me out here, the first spawn is in the trenches, then as the battle progresses, you spawn further back.
@@aname6794 Can you elaborate more
@@Yourlocalwordrobe There is nothing more to elaborate?
The first spawn is inside the trenches - as that is where the soldiers would realistically be - any any spawn afterwards is in the current in-game places. That is to say, far behind the trenches.
@@aname6794 now when you add more info it sounds like a idea worth of testing
This is war it’s highly erratic and spontaneous, let me take the battle of Gettysburg to help prove it. The battle of Gettysburg was fought from july1-3 1863 when Ap hills corps stumbled across a cavalry unit under John Buford in the small town of Gettysburg, Gettysburg played no pivotal role in the campaign until that point, it was just a small town that lee had orders be taken for the small depot there and it ended up being the biggest and bloodiest battle in American history.
@@Rhett_Kierbow That’s interesting.
While Yes, war is imposed chaos, it's exactly the most well organized and communicated force, or at least, The LEAST disorganized force that allwyas wins, it's only recently that you kids have grown the idea that war is like call of duty and you don't stick to your lead while gunning stuff down like Rambo
the biggest? probably yeah. bloodiest, no although it was probably pretty close. Antietam still holds the bloodiest title because it was just a sheer massacre
@@slayermcrx7519 “Oh boy do I sure love standing shoulder to shoulder with cannons ahead. Sure hope only one of us dies this time…”
In route 23, I understand what you are saying. In the lore, General Archer was criticized for his bullhead style of attack in the Aquilan campaign , which is sending men straight into a fortified position and hope it works. For Ascendens forest, maybe the Aquilan soldiers are caught by surprise and need to quickly move.
And General archer never got « honorably discharged » or anything? Other generals didn’t took advantage of his probably low popularity to get him his position? If the answer is ‘’he’s the best option we have’’ they could very well hire foreign military adviser or try to convince other nations to do so (wouldn’t be too hard considering in real life geopolitics for the most part in history had a « balance of power « where each country ensured nobody got too powerful so they wouldn’t have troubles getting foreign actors looking towards sabotaging said ennemies)
@@centralhunter9169 I think Archer has too much plot armor. Lincoln burned through generals in the Civil War.
(I hate plot armor)
With Kelson Village, I argue neither side wanted it taken. Corvus' goal was to continue its offensive and seize as much ground as possible in order to break the stalemate, and Cetus' goal was to hold their ground. Cetan soldiers had been stationed in Kelson Village, and likely happened to be in the way of the Corvun offensive. 400 soldiers on each side is also not that many, considering the fact both sides probably had more than a million troops. The creator of Centaura has also stated in the discord that no battles in Centaura are major battles.
average day in the centauran continent
And Usea from Ace Combat
Roland’s Prairie’s is one of the many fortresses in the Ring of Fire, it’s impossible to attack between the forts because of the howitzers and forests, artillery isn’t used and is out of the question because of the valuable artillery positions stationed there that could be exploited. Lastly, it’s has a similar resemblance to the Battle of Verdun. It could all just be my opinion though, anyone may share their thoughts.
@@RetroFacility That’s what I mentioned in the video! Glad to see someone else see it!
@@MrMereScratchno one talked about it so I mentioned it lol
Blud this is actually logical. Like in real life wise too, Blackton was a waste of manpower on both sides. Kelson could actually somehow destroy like a quarter of Cetus's military. Cetus is known for being undermanned and seriously it would be a massacre. For Capri there are two possible reasons
1. One of the side probably made unfinished trenches and were forced to retreat
2. They were abandoned long ago
-Mons planus is alright
-For Ascandes I 100% agree
-Route 23? Antareans are just stupid
But hey a game is a game
Hey, Antarean stupidity on Talona is canon
@@RandomFurry07 REALLY? YES I CAN MOCK THEM FOR REAL!!!!
Explanation 1 : resources.
Explanation 2 : chlorine gas was probably added during the battle. other than that no importance other than a skirmish where the 2 sides happen to meet.
3: trenches cannot work their intended purpose at steep elevation. trenches also have some form of cover (plank boards) from artillery.
other than that, makes sense.
I think that most of the errors in strategic logic is simply for the purposes of gameplay
@@user-pk2ev2fe9t Yeah, I had mentioned that in the video.
@@MrMereScratch often the maps that make more strategic sense are the least fun
By the way, Route 23 is VERY strategic; Route 23 leads straight towards Talona, which is one of Aquila’s major cities. Securing Route 23 was for their supply chains, and capturing Talona would allow them to have a supply hub in enemy territory.
Yeah but the way the attackers go about attacking Talona makes no sense
Indeed it is a big city, it's just the way they attempt to take over Route 23 and Talona in general is a very bad way of doing it
Talona isn’t just one of Aquila’s major city, it’s the Capital
@@allenrosales9738 Talona isn't the capital, if anything it's probably the 2nd biggest city.
Don't really know where you got the idea of it being a capital from.
Tbf centaura uses many ww1 tactics so going head on into a position like that isn’t too outta the question. Also remember that the battle is taking place like not even 600-700 yards from the actual city and the last objective point on the map is literally on the city border limit.
The cetan marine corps landing map is great too IMO.
@@cashas6969 Yeah, especially as an Antares hiding in the boats >:)
I feel like most of these battles are insignificant battles compared to the larger scope of things, and if we are taking into account that they are using WW1 type tactics, 3k to 6k deaths for one small village or farm doesn't do any damage to either country PHYSICALLY.
My second point is that we all take these battles at face value, a waste of "so many men" for a small and "insignificant" piece of land.
If we say that these numbers are, in fact, huge losses (which imo they aren't), *all of these battles are fought purely for morale, glory, and propaganda.* Because let's face it, the populous of each nation involved at this point is probably not so pleased with a brutal and bloody war waging on for seemingly nothing.
The whole game is based on insignificance and "death over nothing". From a tired and restless soldiers pov (which is who we play as), you don't care about glory, you just want things to get done, you want the war done, so in the eyes of who we play as, these battles mean nothing if we don't gain some physical reward for winning them.
Well, it is meant to be a prequel to DEAD AHEAD. Made after Noobic Sea. And Capri valley is the oldest map. Made to be just a place holder (I think) back in the days of Gridlock. Plus, there mostly working on dead now. Plus theres a chance that Grid lock was going to be a test for atoll. Which is very, very chaotic.
Also dead ahead is being revived.
I want Atoll to be added back, I know Centaura takes place during the Centauran Wars but it would be fun to have land battles that go on during Dead Ahead, as Atoll was originally scrapped because Centaura was based on ground combat.
@@ThePawsketeer It will most likely come back. It was my favorite mode.
@@loadingscreentipguy some people shit on it, but I feel like it’s an alright mode, better than Stronghold because you don’t have much to defend the bastions and Antares basically just kamikaze’s the hell out of them.
Honestly I find the argument of the city not being significant enough to warrant pouring loads of resources into rather invalid. The ongoing war in Ukraine is a perfect example of this.
Bakhmut had little strategic value, and still both Russia and Ukraine poured tens of thousands of men into it, culminating in the second longest active battle in history (second only to Verdun), and at LEAST 40k deaths, the deadliest battle of the war (to my knowledge). The battle was purely for glory on both sides, it simply had no value beyond that.
Another example is the tiny village of Robotyne on the southern front, it had less than 200 population before the war began, and still it was the main offensive point during last summer's Ukrainian offensive, of which fighting in the village lasted around 3 months, also with obscene casualty numbers. There's even a Russian counteroffensive ongoing in what remains of the village, for little reason more than deducting Ukraine's already minuscule gains during its previous offensive.
There are plenty more examples from other wars, such as Stalingrad, Verdun, and so on.
So to sum it up, Cetus most likely had a no-step-back mentality when it came to the war, as territorial losses would show their weakness, ultimately explaining why they put so much into defending such small settlements. I'm not exactly an expert on Centauran lore, but that's just my theory. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
@@cuberrt I am speechless. Thanks for your feedback!
Yeah that's a probable answer
Propaganda is quite a powerful tool, though not strategically important now, but Mons Planus, Blackton, and maybe the forest have cultural and/or historical influences (Verdun like you mentioned is one of that) forces the countries to put a lot of manpower to those specific strategically insignificant targets to keep morale high for the soldiers so they can keep fighting
What do you mean by Stalingrad?
@@Kartez228 Stalingrad really wasn't that strategically important. The Germans could have attacked to cut off the Caucasus further south, say, at Astrakhan, but they went for Stalingrad because they new that if they took the city named after the leader of the Soviet Union, it would be a huge morale blow.
Blacktown is the frist battle were two armis met,it was a coldmine, reason for the war, and Kelson Village was a holding point for Cetus, they have already lost much territory so they would like to stop the Corvun at th villages befor ethey got to the big cities.
Here is what I think (I may get some stuff wrong):
Blackton: It was a really strategic town it provided for a lot of the Corvun economy when it was seized in 1886 the Corvus economy suffered greatly so it would be vital for the Corvuns to capture to improve their economy. For Cetus it would also be vital to capture since it provided for a lot of the Corvun economy if the Cetans held it they could dig in and let the Corvun economy collapse.
Kelson Village: I believe it was most likely a test of the gas or it was a small skirmish during a larger offensive.
Capri Valley and Mons Planus: I agree with you I think the dev did it for gameplay.
Acendence Forest: The Antares must have moved faster than the Aquilans expected so they probably found out when it was too late and couldn't occupy the whole trench.
Route 23: Again I agree with you I think the dev did it for gameplay.
Battery Q and Rolands Prairie: Yes, I agree with you.
The requests you have to make the maps "better" will make the matches take wayyyyyy longer and some players dont even hav etime to play as match as it already is, if the request you came up with became true, then the matches would take maybe an hour.
And for the maps you thought was not making sense to fight for, then they actually are, Blackton is a miner town that mines coal and other resources and Kelson village is there for Corvus to push Cetus longer back and take back the land that Cetus took away from Corvus.
For Whitemouth Estuary, I do agree with the Officers, they would try to Conserve Manpower, Equipment, and Ships, and try to Escape to Riaa or Columba, what the Exercutis Maris did was kinda Stupid, then again, they're Marines, "Brave and Foolish.", They Basically Did A Gallipoli. I mean, they would Probably be in their 30s, maybe late 40s if they're an Officer, by the Time the Antares Imperium tried to Invade Columba. But oh well. (Why did bro Forgor about Whitemouth Anyway)
RECLAIM OUR HOMELANDDDDD 🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥
Also, I believe the Final Aquilan Map (The Battle of Talona), will basically be a Stalingrad or Moscow moment, I Imagine the Imperium would Replace the Comical Amount Of Artillery With CAS. (Close Air Support, like Dive Bombing or Strafing Runs)
The conflict in Aquila started in 1912 so I don’t believe technology wise air support would really be used. The first bombers weren’t used until the Columban Campaign and dive bombers wouldn’t be a thing until about the Riaan, Tucanan, and Centarii campaigns. Maybe light fighter planes in the sky and light bombs, but not the type of Stalingrad you’d expect.
Kalvin Tau: "WE HAVE MORE TANKS THAN THEIR BULLETS!"
I really think they should add chlorine gas that players can control. Like in WW1, chlorine gas were set off, but sometimes the wind blows it back into friendly position, mbe wind could also be added as an addition to controlable chlorine gas? 🔥
Campaign idea: an Antares' assult onto an important Aqualia's outpost AT NIGHT. With a lot of spawn point for the Antares around the outpost. The Aqualian army could turn on light for their outpost for a better vision but also risk getting their supply depot and HQ to be revealed. Meanwhile the Antares army is armed with bazooka (or whatever rocket launcher in ww1), heavy satchel and tnt to either destroying the outer wall or sneak in and uses it on the objective. Aqualian got armed with player-controlled machine gun nest and flare gun to spot the Antares. Also Antares army could infiltrated the sewer for easier access, the aqualian got an enough pack of tnts to either blow up the sewer (blocked the Antares' way in but also collapsed some of the MG nest) or use it on 2 out of 5 supply truck in the spawn point to prevent the demolitionist (or the bazooka carrier), grenadier and assult from spawning.
Rate this campaign chat.
My opinion
These maps are all minor battles, so the losing side would still have lost the war regardless of who won the engagement.
Blackton and Kelson were just small villages that happened to have both sides meet there
Capri and Mons Planus would have been destroyed by artillery
Batteries Q and Liberius were indeed important places to capture
Route 23 should have been bombarded by artillery
Whitemouth was an act of desperation so really there shouldn't be much tactical stuff
Talona itself should have been destroyed by now to artillery
The strategy of the Antareans during the war was to use their naval superiority instead of trying to push through the mountains which was a good decision
No no
These are actually factual according to lore
Ngl the mg and the armored car in this game are way too op they have ww1 mg and they fire like 20mm shells
@@natus1 yup
Honestly had no idea this game was so in depth. I've only played it a few times. I might be more interested now
@@bg1052 It is, but… Do be warned that when searching for lore, stay away from the Reddit and the Discord server. I’ve distanced myself from it for good reason: some pretty messed up lore and community stuff has happened. I’ve only heard rumors, but they’re terrifying.
@@MrMereScratch Warning heeded
I remember in the lore forma was bigger than earth 12 times so the population was double to alot of people and alot of those people are in centaura
@@nanominator.1893 I’m pretty sure Cetus had around 40 million people, which is less than Germany in WWII.
Its mostly water though
@@slendygamer1231 That why i think cetus is superior if they weren't that imcompetent and used the navy manpower to help the army manpower cetus wouldn't have lost
@@nanominator.1893 Yeah true
@@nanominator.1893I'm pretty sure communications between the navy and the army don't exist considering how much friendly fire there is from the navy💀
Hes no military strategist, hes just a developer with a dream.
Note: this is a solo project.
@@ashton2283 Technically, as far as I know, there are two other devs alongside several community contributors (providing helmets, webbing, and other meshes).
For Route 23, Antares was planned to have an engineer class with engineer trucks to disable defensive positions. Unfortunately, due to time constraints they were never finished. I'm not too sure if they were making an actual class for the engineer but for the to do list, Engineer trucks were planned to be spawned.
The owner explicitly stated all maps in Centuara are relatively minor in the grander scheme of things. They are not battles that defined an entire campaign or turned the tide of battle. Even if a country was able to win on a certain map (or even all maps in a given campaign), Antares and her allies will still manage to conquer the entire country in lore.
The Devs: No there's no major battles
The Game: entire regiments lost for one fucking farm
I think the respawn cap for Gridlock maps is now 3,000 for each team. Which is around 3 battalions, and thus roughly a single regiment.
@@NoshGilligan23 Seeing as the game up until now is based on WW1 combat, 3k to 6k deaths for one minor battle actually makes sense.
Looking at the grander scope, each nation has over half a million on the front lines so losing that amount is not pivotal if we are looking through the lens of WW1 tactics. I'm sure for more pivotal battles that the game will never have (devs keep the gameplay to insignificant battles), the casualty rate is probably in the tens of thousands and dwarfs the battles that we actually play in.
Im sure for future campaigns we will see shorter times and quicker battles with less casualties due to blitzkrieg probably being used as a doctrine later on.
As for route 23, this was an insane gamble by the Antarean leadership to end the Aquilan war ASAP as atp both sides are in a stalemate. With Antares needing war support and supplies, they just said f*ck it and threw anything they could on route 23 and prayed it worked.
in 1:29 . There is actually the reason for trenches being straight is because its the first time Cetus and Corvus actually used trenches on a wide scale, if you go uphill in the area near the forests of Battery Q you can see a small jagged trench but the one in Capri Valley was made in mind to act as a spacious, multi-use, low-cost solution as mentioned in the Capri Valley page with
"Trench systems were built as they were proven to be the best defenses that could be cheaply set up. Trench systems were built as they were proven to be the best defenses that could be cheaply set up. These trenches doubled as anti-vehicle ditches, being dug wide - it also gave troops more space as opposed to the cramped trench designs of the early-war period (ear-war being the one seen in Battery Q.)"
Overall this is a good video :)
imo capri valley it should start off with both teams in their respective trenches and corvus starts a massive artillery barrage towards the cetus trenches shortly after the match starts. corvan soldiers would then charge and hopefully claim at least 1 trench. then a little while later cetus fires their own barrage and it's one big back and fourth between artillery barrages and waves of infantry, instead of random small barrages and soldiers trickling into no mans land (which makes 0 sense)
How to make good military tatics in fictional wars
@@Stravinghelp If you’re asking for advice: read a lot of military books, stories of veterans, study maps of battles, understand what each country is capable of.
If you’re not asking a question: idk but don’t ask Antares
@@MrMereScratch thanks I am trying to make a fictional world with geopolitical events and wars so on so on
@@Stravinghelp Very nice! I do a lot of writing and worldbuilding myself. Good Luck!
@@MrMereScratch thank you
Mons planus could possibly be under defended, since Cetus was too busy fighting Corvus.
It is
I see people making the counter argument that none of the battles are major enough to warrant lore implications, so here's my 2 cents on the issue.
While yes, the scale of the maps we see (usually) justify it not being a major battle, I ultimately feel like it's a copout in order to "maintain canon" that Antares is ultimately victorious in their efforts to take over the continent. There are maps like Talona where they would have to be a major battle, going off what we know of the setting, or at least a smaller section of a bigger battle we focus on.
TL;DR: I'm butthurt that we don't get any big battles for the sake of a single timeline over having in universe alt-history.
It’s meant to be a war over nothing, a battle over a small segment of land nobody cares for.
Ehh most of the time, but
I don't think capturing a coastal battery, breaching a major weak point in a defensive line or a major road hub nothing though
Except that for Antares, it's a war over conquest and control over the entire continent. For Corvus, it's about a war of reclaiming previously stolen territory that is desperately needed to fix the economic woes of your crime and poverty ridden nation. For everybody else it's about maintaining their very existence as a nation.
@@Fancy_Schmancy0 I feel like the « they need this for their economy » plotline is stupid. If they were really struggling this bad why would they go to war, especially in the industrial warfare era where wars are expensive and typically not worth it.
Moving away from the battles, in general the lore doesnt make sense. Like why didnt any countries on Centaura make pacts when it was clear Antares was trying to invade everyone after the fall of Aquila. Why did Cetus never use there navy or draw troops from it? So many silly flaws in the lore.
@@ag4ming662 I 100% agree. Seeing that Cetan land was close to territory of the entire Third Reich in 1942 (Russia, Norway, etc.), you would imagine that there would be a lot of resistance. But nope, post occupation is stupid easy for Antereas. In WWII, the Germans were often being undermined in a relative sense compared to their iron fist.
The fact alone a country took over the world is so hard to wrap my head around.
nca (northern centaura alliance)
bro didnt hear about NCA
@@buhar3987 But to be fair, Cetus and Aquila were said to be really close but an alliance never came
This is due to decades of imperialism with many of the countries in Centaura being uninterested in forming alliances due to personal self-interests, as mentioned in the "World Lore" page of the wiki, titled "How was Antares able to conquer Centaura by themselves?".
Keep in mind Forma is much larger than Earth and more soldiers can be fielded than in our timeline
@@Teenhistory09 Because population is not scaled, troops have to be spread thin over the much larger area. Cetus manpower is mostly in naval and Corvus is much smaller so armies aren’t giant.
funnily enough forma has about the same population and less land
@@ace74909 oh real?
@@Teenhistory09 yep. on the forma size comparison google doc some guy calculated the land and found out that forma has less land than earth, on the wiki there is also the population count of forma
@@ace74909 wow so the entire planet is just the inanis ocean.
I had read somewhere that the trench warfare in ww1 is nothing like what we see in capri valley for example. They didn't blindly send one wave after another into the attack without success, but rather the opposite. They had captured the first trench line "relatively easily", but could not hold it because of a very fast counterattack by the rear lines.
(I see this error, as far as it is one not only in this game)
And please correct me, but are the trenches actually missing dugouts ?
(I know it is a game)
@@mountenia5556 Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that soldiers are blindly thrown into battle in larger than life combat. The trench networks were not isolated during WWI and went from alps to sea.
@@mountenia5556 Also yes, they are missing dugouts. I get that “there was little time”, but those trenches are massive. You’d think there would be some infrastructure so they can actually function.
i usualy lose in route 23 as the defenders also they do flank trough the small surounding forest
I feel like Kelson Village and Blackton aren't important yes, but are just another area of the invading line, also they could be bigger cities, but then the game wouldn't run well.
for blacktown you do realize its a gold mine right i mean for gods sake the description is a IMPORTANT GOLD MINING TOWN not coal (im not trying to beef with u just saying it)
for Kelson Village yeah i can get your point
For the Trench maps its possibly because uhh idk its the only way for military vehicles to cross since im guessing the terrain is too mountainus and for mons planus you can clearly see the sheer ammount of forrests and not to mention the fact that the armored vehicles don't drive through trees unlike our era also i wonder how will our planet react when faced with the entirety of forma
@@cedricnash725 It’s a coal mining town… Even the canon novel says that…
Blackton was used for economic purposes and to give materials to their navy
I don't get it, the manpower thing is based on the amount of players. Canonically, tactics are WW1-like. To be fair, for WW1, it is pretty realistic. Keeping in mind of course, that even a "low" amount of manpower moght be bigger on Forman terms, as Forma is canonically much larger than Earth, leading to more people. Then again, I could be completely wrong.
@@2boredYT Population is roughly the same with most being concentrated in Orion or Antares. Cetan manpower is also said to be oddly low.
the population of Forma is not much bigger than Earth for whatever reason
why wouldn't any pf the countries form a coalition after antares invades aquila?
their only justification is uniting centaura which is a big enough threat
+they invaded cetus and don't seem like they will stop soon
@@Scober420 The NCA is formed between the remaining Centauran nations after Aquila falls. For whatever reason it is comically weak.
The argument of “Imperialism estranging countries”, in my opinion is kind of weak. Psychologically, one of man’s greatest priorities is survival. Because Aquila and Cetus had fallen when standing alone, it would be clear that banding together strongly is the only chance of survival.
Second, Antares takes around two decades to fight mountainous Columba but suffers no anti war protests. In WWI, French and British armies were mutineering after three years of trench warfare and Vietnam was absolutely riddled with interior unrest in the United States.
just saying, you show Ursa at 0:21 but im pretty sure they werent there during the Centauran Wars, they were fighting Hydrus, Lepus, Canis and Orion in the Grease Wars and suffering from instability afterwards
@@henrycooper3431 They were in the Tucan Campaign
@@MrMereScratch i must have misremembered then, thanks for pointing out
@@henrycooper3431the devs retconned it so Ursa now fights in the Centaura
@@robowisanveithasung6022 oh that makes sense, thanks!
strategic locations are more important than the value of the town's industry. look at what russia is doing in ukraine: they are not taking huge cities because they would be too costly. instead they go for lower cost tactical gains for better sights, airfields, and infrastructure on the enemy.
@@turperper True! There are no infinite lives in war, you must conserve your troops to make the kill on your weak enemy.
im not well versed in Centaura lore but arent some of these early war stuff just like in real life id assume commanders still have that Napoleonic was mindset causing them to make tatical blunders thats my excuse for the small town maps
I think you’re aware that the battles are not actually major events, and are for gameplay yes? Well the reasons why so many people die in such small villages is that it isn’t actually a lot. In our timeline 1000 people over a village may sound like a lot, but in Centaura there is over a billion people, and small villages will be good for any strategic standpoint since there are few cities. Why few cities? well that’s because everyone lives in the cities that already exist, and for those that don’t have alot of people, well, again strategics.
Have you... played Centaura? On route 23 its pretty much just a wait until Aquila loses, I have never seen a single game where Aquila wins route 23 (maybe because they're made to lose it).
@@Masteechief. I’ve played that map at least 30 times and Antares kept winning. That portion of the video was made also taking into account the Aquilan Artillery guns worked.
Centaura is my second-most played Roblox game behind Rise of Nations.
Alright, makes sense
@@MrMereScratch
really? first time on the map when i played and aquila won easily, antares couldn't get through point c (me and some other dude were obliterating their vehicles with AT, that was so fun)
I dont bother these map designs and sense's (besides the artillery) but things bothers me that the weapons in description,
Like cetus rifles desc:having a cheap texture and it have chance of jamming, but in gameplay you can fire this rusty crap over 100 rounds, with no problems
Not same thing to antares/corvun their rifles is a direct upgrade having prevention jamming.
Yet one of the soldiers decided to grab one of these cetus rifles over their new bolt action rifles, (Besides gameplay)
i get it some of the soldiers like cetus actually stealing one of their opponents guns but their opponents stealing their guns as well,
I mean think about it:
imagine a Russian Pmc from tarkov decided to steal a poor made rifle from the scavenger over their high ergonomic ak, seems weird right?
just my thoughts lol
Tbh centuara is just gameplay it’s realistic at the same time fast paced smaller maps are needed for it to be less of a running simulator
"no stratigic sense"
Battery Q, roland praire, ascendens forest, route 23, blackton: alright, screw the commanders that planned these attacks then
Wasn't Battery Q and Roland praised in the video. Route 23: the commanders should have planned better. Blackton: it kinda does have strategic reasons if i remember being a mining town, so i'll give to that
@@stoodle511 "commundurs shouldhcjfjr planed buttir" if you don't like it, then leave
@@VitalikZ-yz5qw 'if you dont like it' is not a valid argument, Route 23 is pushing a vulnerable strategic point through an unneeded onslaught which gives the enemy an unnecessary advantage.
@@stoodle511 Yes, I did give Blackton the benefit of being a mining town. Dunno why you would use over a thousand soldiers to attack it, haha. If team sizes were smaller I'd probably like it more, but it takes away from the fun.
@@MrMereScratch I agree, but I do feel some of the soldiers wanted blackton more for historical significance
Um actually Blackton is a rich coal mining town which is important for both sides to supply the war effort and for economy
The problem is... The entire region of South Corvus is resource rich
Blackton is probably not a massive contributor to that, since there is fiercer fighting on other towns during the start of the war
@@RandomFurry07 oh ok, thanks for telling me that
Fighting through the forests of mon planus would be extremely fun, but alas the constricts of not enough players would make encounters with other players rarer and imbalance the game
In defense of Blackton
It's a good source of raw materials that's very important to Corvus And it's bordering Corvus so why wouldn't cetus put some trooops there? I think that Blackton is REASONABLE.
Then we have Kelson village, No excuses the map sucks.
Route 23 Is a fun map but seriously I could come up with a much better strategic plan for Antares.
This is how i'd do it.
So, the first step is to introduce Artillery battaries to the frame or air supiriority (You can hear planes constantly fly over but none get shot down meaning there is no Air defense so Air is also an easy pick)
Bombard the hell out of the first position
Rush the Struggling first defense point with the support of 1 tank as cover
Take the first position, Disarm all landimines up to that point then take a defensive post and shell the fuck out of the second point, Then bring out 4 to 5 armored cars we have the manpower, Absoloutly rush them and have the Engineering corp disarming mines when the defense is distracted, Then the rest should be a walk in the park.
(The starting thing can be excused in my opinion due to proper game design)
Also In battary q the soloution would be to see where the fighting is happening dont shell that shell slightly to the side of the enemy and boom most teamkills stop)
AWW YOU FORGOT WHITEMOUTH ESTUARY
@@nanominator.1893 I might make a stand-alone video on it ;)
Okay, I’m gonna be the guy who happens to have a centaura pfp who disagrees, who would have guessed… but your entire argument is just “why didn’t they flank,” and this is just, a really bad argument because first, players already do flank, it’s how point b falls in route 23, flank points are what’s fought over in Mons Planus, but of course what you mean is a large flanking offensive which would have to sever the attacking team in half because at that point two different attacks are happening at once, and we already know that’s a horrible idea, look at Whitemouth, because you completely ignore it, most defending and attacking players spawn at their A spawns, because A is the more important objective, but you also never see anyone flank using Goldcrest as a launching point, that’s unheard of because what centaura showcases are small battles. You say Blackton has way too many people committed to it, I say that’s a pretty small amount considering the planet is almost 3 times the size of the earth.. anyway, just as your video is, just some counter argument to your claim
How the hell is this game on mobile but not on console
@@Nombrenooriginal The gore and “depictions of intense suffering” violates console TOS. Centaura could be entirely removed if they break it.
What was 3:24 ive never seen that in game
thats centaura, those guns fire on talona from the background. you cant really get to them because they're out of bounds but you can see them just barely
@@finewine1001Why tell the game name though?
Just like warhammer 40k lmao
do not look up battles in the russo-ukraine war most of the biggest battles occured in insignificant places
You can clearly tell which battles they actually cared about, and which ones just existed for the sake of pushing forward the game (hence the trench maps) One thing to keep in mind, Centaura is built off the idea of authenticity through it's lore and backed up by it's gameplay, not attempting to display a flash of realism. Sure you can widen the trench maps and such, but it would ruin the game and imbalance it. People already complain about dying to stuff out of their control (artillery strikes hitting them ever so accurately, MGs infinitely preventing them from accessing points) so why would you further make that the case? This whole video just feels un-done. The fact that "so much manpower was poured into seemingly useless areas" also seems to have no fruit to bear for it's argument. A thousand deaths? For a town? In a world-war 1 like war? That's rookie numbers. Verdun was useless, so were many others in the first world war. What makes them important is their symbolism and their place in the dominoes that are set to crash onto Cetus. Cetus wasnt "lacking manpower", but alot of it was headed to the Navy which stopped being effectively useful to the war a few years in. Cetus had manpower, but it became glaringly clear the war was not sustainable especially after 3-4 years of fighting already. So they collapsed under the pressure of a empire 4x larger than them and a hyper-militaristic state to it's north. Blackton is important because it symbolised what was taken from Corvus years ago. Their coal industry, which reckoned the Corvun economy to it's knees. It's also just on the front line in general, it's safe to assume that battles like this occured everywhere. Trenches were clearly broken quite fast into the war, and marching through on the side of a hill seems implausible considering the overall circumstances of the volatility of the war. Fighting through a forest without your supply lines also seem impractical. You could be reinforcements on trucks only simply arriving to find the other regiments both too shattered to fight, meaning you are the next wave. Even if I didnt go far to explain some of the factors in these maps, they simply explain themselves by not being necessary to constantly question for the game to seem authentic. This video is a waste of 3 and a half minutes.
No ducking way.. CARBON????
Why would you invest in your navy when there is a hyper millitaristic society to your north?
Fun fact:
The farm you see in mons planus is not the full town from what I heard
@@The_unfunny711 But still a farm
@@MrMereScratch real
Your first point is just dead wrong. In real life, large battles with huge fatalities are fought over small villages with relatively small populations. This isn't because the towns and villages are of huge societal importance, but rather because they are strategically significant. If you actually read the lore at the start of each game, it mentions exactly this point. For example, the Battle of Somme wasn't fought over some huge city, but over an area spanning a small farm fields and villages.
Secondly, you complain that the maps on Capri Valley and Mons Planus are built so that it's too easy to flank on, but you also say that they should be widened. Widening the map (even if you have NPC machine gunners as you suggest) will just make flanking even easier. Your other suggestion that they turn the maps into more realistic trench systems isn't practical either, because that would just make the gameplay suck.
I agree with you though that Roland's Prairie is a great map.
Imma use some parables here:
If your a fallout player, imagine the countries as the NCR fighting itself. More bodies than bullets idea.
If you are a Real time strategy or TBS player, the war is a war of attrition. Someone will give in.
Basically;
Centura Cringe, Metal Gear based
@@punishedwhispers1218 GUH
please dont use text to speech anymore
🤓👆
“Erm, don’t you know text to speech is bad?”
i really really hate the AI voice you used in the video
i don't like AI voices and i think quite a few people agree
if i were to suggest something, use a regular TTS, because it's more recognizable as computer-generated
***THIS COMMENT IS IN NO OFFENSE TO YOU, THE UPLOADER, IN ANY WAY. THIS COMMENT IS INTENDED TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.***
@@seabazianyt I would use my own voice, but I speak too fast, slur and blend my words, and really hate hearing my own voice on anything other than gameplay. The hardest part is that I rarely get a quiet time in my home and I don’t want to disrupt what other people are doing because that isn’t fair.
Now if I were speaking to someone, I do better, but my friend’s online status is very few and far between.
@@MrMereScratch hey, criticism aside, good luck on your little youtube adventure!
@@seabazianyt Thank you!
"Route 23 is suicide mission"
Excuse me?! How the hell are we supposed to siege a city then?! Sit and watch them sit in the city?!
I haven't fully seen the story, but... Siege definition: a military operation in which enemy forces surround a town or building, cutting off essential supplies, with the aim of compelling the surrender of those inside.
so yeah, sit and watch..
@@stoodle511you don't even know the lore then
@@VitalikZ-yz5qw It's a suicide mission because you're sending tanks in without an engineering squad against terrain defenses within the range of AT guns--if the larger direct-fire artillery guns worked like they were planned to when the map was first designed, Antares would never win.
It's all in the video.
You know like the majority of sieges in history are won by the besieged running of supplies soo yeah you could watch
Is this a Roblox server?
What like the game or video?
Capri Vally is the worst
@@Guy96477 It really is
HOI4 TNO is better!!1!1
centaura sucks, go play dead ahead
@@mr.battledroid2195 Dead Ahead dead :(
oh yeah, I saw in the discord that the dev plans to revive dead ahead
@@MrMereScratch unfortunately, yes
@@user-nf8id6di9b I saw as well! Very excited to see what comes.
@@mr.battledroid2195 wdym unfortunately?
Everyone and me can't respect your opinion bud
No need to be that mean, it's not like the guy is screaming for realism always over gameplay, it's just some thoughts about how there are some things that could be improved
@@stoodle511 You're not welcome then
@@VitalikZ-yz5qw sounds like you're fun in parties
@@stoodle511 sounds like nobody wants you at their parties
@@VitalikZ-yz5qw Bingle bongle dingle dangle, yickety doo, yickety da, ping pong, lippy-tappy too-ta