Pimax Crystal | 72Hz Mode and BIG FOV lenses review
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2023
- Today we'll be looking at a preview of the upcoming 72Hz mode along with a review of a prototype of the BIG FOV lenses.
Processor: Intel i9 11900KF (overclocked to 5.2GHz)
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Hero VIII
Memory: 128GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB PRO 3600MHz (4x32GB)
System Cooling: CORSAIR iCUE H150i Elite LCD XT Liquid CPU Cooler - IPS LCD Screen
Graphics Cards: MSI GeForce RTX 4090
Operating System: MS Windows 11 Professional
Operating System Drive: 2TB Samsung 990 Pro M2 NVMe
Game Drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PRO M2 NVMe
DCS Drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PRO M2 NVMe
Power Supply: CORSAIR AX1000i ATX Titanium
Virtual Reality: Varjo Aero, Meta Quest 2, Pimax 8KX, and Pimax Crystal (eye-tracking)
Hand tracking: Pimax Hand Tracking module (LeapMotion IR170)
WinWing DDIs and UFC
Thrustmaster F/A-18C and F-16 Hornet stick and Warthog Throttle.
Thrustmaster TRP pedals.
Sim-shaker software driving 3 tactile bass-shakers: andres-shop.simshaker.com/
If you enjoy aircraft, flight or flight simulation, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics.
Music: Darkside Alternative Cover by TallyMouse 
Игры
Highest quality crystal content I’ve seen. Well done keep it up and we’ll all continue to benefit!
very good video, thank you for treating you audient like adults and not screaming into the mic like a 12 year old
Wow. How do you only have 161 subscribers? This is the best review I have seen on RUclips and I watch quite a few. I really appreciate the accurate/scientific method you use to make your conclusions. I am really tired of the old "well I played with this for a few hours and here is what I think...." type of reviews. Bravo...
Thank you. Objectivity is hard to maintain, especially if you're excited about the technology offering. However, I feel as though it's an obligation to present the facts as they're perceived, at least by myself. Anything else would seem somewhat disingenuous! I'm not here for clicks or subs, even though it's useful to know if I'm offering useful content - I'm just excited about the technology. It's a beautiful thing to be able to fly with friends and not worry about racking up tens of thousands of dollars in deferred maintenance as a result..
Yeah, I just found your channel and agree it’s some of the best VR/Crystal content out there.
Brilliant Video, i look forward to trying this out on my Crystal, thank you 😊
Hi Tally, nice to hear positive feedback about new lenses.
About 72Hz, I want to share some experience using it my 8kx. It is excellent for simms, if you are used to it. But, if you usually use 90 or more Hz, then you will not like it. It makes eyes tired, or some may feel slightly discomfort from lower Hz number.
Fortunately there is a better solution: set your HMD on 120Hz, and then lock your fps (in OpenXRToolkit) to half of it; 60Hz. What is difference? Your HMD will do 120 pictures per second, and that feels much better for your eyes for longer playing. But with locking game to 60 fps, your PC will change every second picture, and will have enough time for all calculations. This method is totally different from just setting 60Hz, which (in my opinion) feels like somebody punching me in face.
That exactly ratio 2:1 (120Hz:60Hz) has some magic in it to trick eyes and mind, and feels smoother than other solutions higher then 60Hz. I highly recommend it to try.
I do not have 120Hz on my 8kx, so I use similar trick with 90Hz HMD + locking fps to 45. This looks good enough for jets in DCS (without much turning), but not for other games. I wish I had 120/60 combo, but it does not work on my system...
Yes. I have the 8kx too! I found the half-rate lock to 45Hz while running at 90Hz to be a very good option. With the half-rate lock on the Crystal, 36Hz, 45Hz, 60Hz, 72Hz, 90Hz, and 120Hz have all become options..
@@tallymouse I’m also curious about the potential 144hz mode, and then locking to half at 72 fps. Thats gotta be some magic
@SpecialTeams Apparently, it's being looked into - though is harder to acheive, as they need to get the QLED system quantum dot layer running in sync with the display layer such that the local dimming is in sync with the main display refresh.
@@tallymouse Makes sense, I’ll stick with 120hz locked at 60 FPS for DCS until then, it’s the smoothest experience I’ve had in DCS by far
Agreed, 72hz feels like it is strobing unlike 120hz mode locked to half or smart smoothing enabled (now working in the beta)
Thank you! Very clear and informative! Looking forward to getting some of these wide FOV lenses!
Excellent review, thanks for sharing your observations and impressions 🙏
Great lens analysis, very well done.
This was very impressive. WOW, great lenses review, the best by far.
Wow, such an in depth review!
The amount of work you have put into making this video is quite impressive, my compliments! You deserve musch more subscribers than this. Great job.
Very well done, sir! Thank you.
You earned a subscriber!
Love all of these VID's thanks so much
Great review.
Wonderful job. Thank you
Good to see that the Wide FoV lenses are promising. I have some coupons at Pimax to be spent.
The only reason I feel a little deflated is because I really want to try them out with DFR.. I'm almost tempted to strip them down and rebuild them myself with IR-LEDs so I can try it out before anybody at Pimax! 😅
Best content so far , thanks
Wow you get 116 horizontal FOV on the 35ppd lenses! I can only get 104 with the headset really too tight to use for any period…measured with Test HMD.😮
I had it so clamped down I was almost crying..
I guess this was the point of my video - different people with different face/ocular-cavity shapes and geometries will always end up with significantly different values - it's not a Pimax thing, it's a lens thing!
The important value is the difference or the increase, compared to the standard lenses, that the BIG FOV lenses can offer you - and that appears to be anywhere between 8 and 12degrees. An average of 10degrees when flying or driving can make a huge difference to your immersion and situational awareness.
Superb video. :)
Some ASMR top notch shit right here. Great review!
Thanks for the effort. Nice to know what's coming. Love my Crystal, but will probably go for the increase in FOV if the hit in clarity is not significant, which seems to be the case.
That was my take-away, at least - with the caveat that the prototype lenses didn't permit eye-tracking (lack of IR-LEDs), and i've become very used to the super-sampled foveate region, I've now realized..
Awesome Video 👍👍
This is really excellent! It's not often you come across a video with such detailed information so succinctly and simply explained. You must be a Professor, I'm guessing!?
ha ha! No, not a Professor, but thank you!
I'm so looking forward for your video, but it is 4:38 AM in Austria :D ......
Really well done, as a lens geek I apricate the info about the shape of the lenses. It should reduce CA, I actually though that the wider FOV lenses would have had higher degree of CA. As they needed to most likely reduce the focal length a bit.
I still think that the interchabagle lens system was genius, as it leaves so much room for further development and makes the headset quite flexible.
It's great because they can also continue to tweak the distortion profiles with subsequent updates to continually improve the visual acuity!
@@tallymouseIts interesting because the first examples of these wide FOV lenses they showed, were huge. They were clearly thicker than the old ones.
Good video.
What about lower 3d binocular overlap?
I saw other reviews and they said it wasn't worth using the wider lenses yet because of this
Thanks a lot.
Wow, very thorough and detailed. TY!
Did you notice any "pixelation" effect, considering the slightly lower PPD?
I really didn't - they felt very much like the Standard glass lenses.
@@tallymouse sweet, thx
Subscribed as well. Question or your opinion…. Will 72Hz be that big of a benefit for those with high end systems or is the 90Hz option still going to be king?
If you have a very high-end system, you'll probably still run 90Hz or 120Hz. I'm quite happy running mine at 90Hz. I tan at 120Hz for a few weeks, and the only real benefit I found was when my fps indicator hit 120Hz while above the clouds, apart from that I couldn't perceive a visual benefit over 90Hz.
great video! I do wonder though, does the increased FOV come at the cost of stereo overlap or is it the same with both type of lenses?
I didn't notice any significant change in stereo-overlap or stereoscopic effect.
Thank you for the update. I'm interested to know if their was a noticeable difference in visual quality with the lower pixel density?
I didn't really notice any obvious reduction in sharpness - though I doubt I could tell the difference between 35ppd and 33ppd anyway..
@tallymouse thanks. It's sounds like a no-brainer, when funds allow!
Very nice work on this video. I am currently trying to decide what to get to replace my G2 since it is having issues. I have seen reviews from others complaining about barrel distortion and of course the CA issues. What say you to these issues? I was hoping to be able to wait to get the Somnium headset but no one has a clue when those will ship or how they will be really be. Nothing else on the horizon that is promising in the sub $3k price point. I do have a good PC I built with a 13900k and 4090 so I should be able to get good performance with a new headset. Pimax does concern me with their class leading terrible customer service and horrible return policy combined with the build quality issues but the image quality is the only thing that keeps this headset alive in the market really from what I am seeing.
Remember that the Somnium VR-1's specs are identical to the Crystals, yet being manufactured by a company that's never produced, shipped, and sustained/supported VR headsets before - so even when it does come out, it's not going to be a rose-garden!
I, personally, haven't had any issues with barrel distortion or CA. If you need to wear spectacles, you're always going to notice more CA than somebody without as that's just the nature of stacking multiple lenses together in an optical system.
I was part of the beta testing group, and a few members of the group were going out on YT and reddit publicly complaining about private pre-public-release software (i.e. not understanding what beta testing is about). Of the people I can verify actually own a Crystal, the vast majority are delighted (the silent majority) with it, and wouldn't go back to anything else. Many of them also own all other headsets, such as the Aero, the G2, Quest Pro etc. With respect to support, when I got my first Pimax headset (8k plus), support were great - when I purchased a 8kx from a third party, and it was faulty, support replaced it and sent me a new one directly from China, very promptly... the wheels came off a little at the beginning to middle of this year with support, as they were simply just swamped with support tickets, mostly due to beta testing running concurrently with initial Crystal shipments.. However, things are getting much better as the Pimax leadership team have been really proactive in moving around trying to coordinate where they could, and pull priority tickets out of the system and getting them moving again. Josh says it well here:
ruclips.net/video/6aqdLT9Iw18/видео.html
There's a discord set up now for support and general discussion, it'd be good to join it, and then you can get a sense for yourself:
discord.gg/MhBNHrv6
@@tallymouse Yes that is for sure why I wouldnt be a guinea pig on the Somnium until a lot had them in hand. Does the crystal still feel like you are looking through straws like in the G2? Or is it big enough to feel like you are not tunnel visioned? I know they have the new big FOV lenses but every review i see like MRTV says the binocular overlap is not good at all.
@@bmgzo6 I saw those videos too - some people must be really sensitive to binocular overlap, or there parroting what others have said for something to say - either way I didn't note any issues with stereoscopic depth perception between the normal lenses and the BIG FOV lenses - I think many get hung up on the outputted numbers from test software rather than focusing on how it actually affects the user experience.
The FOV of the Crystal isn't as big as the 8kx -nothing is.. but, during use I don't really notice the edges of the view anymore. One thing's for sure, the VFOV is significantly better than the Aero, and the HFOV is currently about the same. You don't feel like you're looking through a pair of toilet-roll tubes..
@@tallymouse Good to know. What about the software and setup . Has it improved with the software detecting the headset via the angled extender? I saw a few reviews where that was causing detection issues and they had to use the other plug in the headset. Edge distortion and motion blurr was also reported to be very noticeable. As far as the big FOV lenses, Sebastian from MRTV recently did his review and said that it was not good and the overlap issue was very noticeable for him where if he looked to far to the side he was only seeing one display.
@@bmgzo6 take your headset off, look as far as you can sidewards, and you'll note that the trailing eye is blocked by your nose, so only one eye, the leading eye, actually works.. a problem as old as homo sapien sapiens..
Thanks for the vid! Do you know if the HonsVR prescription lenses made for 35ppd will fit the the wide FOV lenses?
Looking at the shape of the lenses, my guess is NO. However, I know that Pimax are still finessing the form of the lenses, so watch this space.
@@tallymouse MRTV verified that they do not fit. Thanks for the reply!
With regards to actual clarity. Do you notice a negative trade off to the 35ppd on clarity/resolution? In theory, the ppd should be lower with the wider fov
From the shape of the lens, it appears that they've attempted to maintain 35ppd in the center of the lens, tailoring off to [probably] 32ppd at the edges - think of it as a redistribution of pixels. I didn't readily notice any difference in clarity between the standard lenses and the BIG FOV lenses. These are still under-development, so it wouldn't surprise me if another prototype comes out for testing that has a larger HFOV. I believe they really are trying to replace the feeling of the 8kx in normal FOV mode.
You said that for the normal lenses, if you get the eyes closer, you can get 116 degree...what about wide FOV by having the eyes closer? Should be more than 125?
It's not that wide. It's closer to 105 and it appears the wide lenses push it to around 114 or 115.
I have crystal normal lenses
have you gotten an update prototype?
Today's message to Pimax support:
"Hi.
It's now over a year since I purchased the Crystal, with the option for the wide-FOV lenses. You have given me two dates for supply, both of which didn't happen. At this point I no longer believe you intend, or ever intended, to supply the promised items and consider you have engaged in fraud."
Think I'd get away with an I7-7700, 32GB Ram and a 3070 for one of these? I have the 5K-XR and would love an upgrade but thinking I'm gonna need a better rig. Nice Vid !
I've tried it with a 3080 and a i9-11900, and the eye-tracking/DFR made it work..
Spend money on a better rig...
Super informative video. Did you notice any issue with reduced binocular overlap?
And off topic. Will you be covering any Bigscreen Beyond content? I’d love to hear your unbiased opinion on this headset. 👍
I didn't notice any issues with stereo-overlap or perceived reduction in stereoscopic depth perception. They felt very much like the standard lenses but with a bigger HFOV.
I'm tempted to purchase a BSB headset to try it out, but I've also got my name down on pre-order for a Somnium VR1, so my financial head may be forced to make a choice. If the VR1 still isn't being shown as a production prototype as CES in January, then I may try the BSB. I'm interested in it because I feel there's a mismatch between the reviews I've seen and how they could possibly make all of that happen in such a tiny package!
@@tallymouseI’m in the same position, I have the BSB on order but have also put my name down for the Somnium vr1.
There have been a few reviews on the BSB but they are also a bit vague with no in depth details.
I’m a glasses wearer so I lose quite a bit of FOV on my crystal using P-lenses and 15mm comfort gasket. I’m hoping I can get some back with the new lenses your testing.
The BSB though using pancake lenses and custom face gasket should allow me to get much closer to the lenses and give good fov.
At the moment I’m well below 100 fov on the crystal.
ETA for the 72hz mode?
I believe it'll be released before mid November.
@@tallymouse thank you
Where we can buy this big fov lenses, can you share link please 🥺
They're currently pre-production betas. I believe the final versions will be ready for sale/shipping by the end of the year!
My Pimax Crystal view creeps or slides whenever I turn my head and hold it still. Let’s say I’m looking to the side, then turn my head and look straight forward, being as still as I can… the entire view moves toward me by about a foot. (Or, it feels like I’m floating closer to onward the panel.).
It will eventually stop, but ANY time I move my head, it’s like it tries to reset my head position. Truly nauseating.
I have a full motion sim. No motion compensation. (Valve Index worked flawlessly without it, though they did use lighthouses.)
I’m at a loss.
Are you running inside-out tracking or with LH Basestations? I had a similar issue a few weeks ago with Basestations, it turned out to be a malfunctioning base-station (calibration was wrong even though it showed a Green LED). If you're running on inside-out tracking, then placing colored stickers on your rig (or QR-Codes) can help the cameras maintain tracking.
I think people would need a full lost of all the various applications you run on your PC alongside the oimax client to even start to know how to assist you.
@@cheeeeezewizzz True. It sounds like @tangocharlie9291 is using inside-out tracking on a motion rig without any compensation, that will be very confusing for the inside-out algorithm because the view from the cameras will be constantly changing when the rig moves!
But the overlap is a lot worse now
I didn't perceive any change in stereo overlap. Are you testing the prototypes too?
@@tallymousethat is interesting.
2 other reviewers said lower binocular overlap and wasn't worth the tradeoff. Hmm
@TonyDrecaps I'm not sure which reviews you saw. All I can say, is that I was sent a pair of prototypes and I installed them, tested them through reasonable means, and flew with them. The ultimate test of stereoscopic vision is air to air refueling as you have to connect with and fly in formation with a basket a few feet away from your cockpit... like staying 6inches away from someone's rear bumper throughout two laps.. and the lenses worked fine. I'm not sure what the motivation would be for somebody to say that an additional 10degrees of HFOV wasn't worth it: the situational awareness improvement alone is worth everything!
@tallymouse gotcha! That's good to know.
I was hoping they were good.
But only if there wasn't any tradeoffs
@@tallymouse i saw it from your own numbers of the fov tool.
Good video, but once again individual VR experiences are as subjective as our taste in food. Other reviews of these lenses say different. Your results will vary. Thanks anyway for a well researched video
You're exactly right about the subjective nature of VR - hence why that point was covered in the video. I'm more than expecting other reviewers to have different findings - however, the change in perceived FOV between the two lens systems shouldn't vary too much - the absolute values, though, will be different.
Jesus Christ, your intro is loud as shit. It almost killed me lmfao. Good video otherwise.
No thanks, my quest 3 is better
low res
@@algroyp3r hammerhead crystal
@@freshs5647 True, but I can see shit in flight sims. Q3 is not quite good enough for that. But I agree it's better for most other things, as its res is good enough for most games out there. I need the Crystal res so I'm training neck though.
@@algroyp3r I use it for dcs, I think it is better than my reverb G2
@@freshs5647 It is, I've tried Pico 4 which has the same specs as Q3, and I thought it's ok but I want more. So I returned it, got the crystal, and I'm much happier. Everything looks almost as clear as reality. But you do have to pay more and deal with less comfort.